阿丽亚娜·格兰德

他有一头非常夸张的七十年代风格长发

And he was he had this big, big seventies hair

他扮演了一个奇怪的音乐人。

and he played this, like, weird musician person.

他写了一首特别长的歌，

And he wrote this song that was so long and

而且特别古怪。

so strange.

而且我觉得，最终伦恩并不喜欢它，

And and I don't think I don't think like, Lorne loved it at the end of the day

但观众却说：我太喜欢了。

with how And the audience was like I loved it so much.

你当时还在为

You were fighting for

观众也站在我们这边，但是

audience was on our side as well, but

因为它太长了，被剪掉了。

it it was cut for time, that

这有点令人心碎，因为实在太逗了。

was kind of heartbreaking because it just so ticklish.

我打赌他至今仍会想起它，并且很感激，因为没有什么比主持人为你据理力争更棒的了。

I bet he still thinks about it that and appreciates it because it would there's nothing better than when the host fights for something of yours.

他确实是。

He is.

即使最终没被采用，

Even if it doesn't make it,

这也意味着

it means

他们所做的事情的意义。

something that they do.

我珍视它。

I cherish it.

我爸爸每天都看。

My dad watches it every day.

这有点可疑。

That's sketchy.

它在YouTube上，他每天都看，我真的没骗你。

It's on YouTube, and he watches it every single day without I'm I'm not kidding.

他每天早上都带着微笑开始一天。

He starts his days with smile.

我想不起来它叫什么了，我觉得这首歌叫《微笑》。

I think it's I don't remember what it's called, I think it's the song was called smile.

他当时78岁，所以节目选了他。

And he was like a 78 So it made the show.

她。

Her.

我们喝了一口水，她微笑着为了

We were sip of water, and she smiled to make

为了她的脸。

for her face.

每个人都说

And everyone was like

但我们真的很喜欢。

but we were we loved it.

我们喜欢，哦。

We loved Oh

我的天。

my god.

我的意思是，是的。

I mean Yeah.

成为你朋友的其中一个人是鲍文。

One of the people that became a friend to you is Bowen.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yes.

一个如此有才华、善良的人。

Such a talented, nice person.

最聪明、最善良、最体贴，聪明得简直超凡脱俗。

The most brilliant, the kindest, most caring, so so ridiculously otherworldly smart.

嗯。

Mhmm.

唉。

Ugh.

而且特别幽默。

And just so funny.

我非常爱他。

I love him so much.

嗯，我们在这个播客里有个环节，我们会请一些认识我们嘉宾的人来，我们背后讨论他们，然后他们会给我一个问题来问。

Well, we do this thing on this pod where we kinda ask people we have guests who know our guests to come on and we speak well behind their back and they give me a question to ask.

所以我们今天跟鲍文聊了。

And so we talked to Bowen today.

天啊。

Oh my god.

是的。

Yes.

鲍文是你的人。

Bowen was your person.

是的。

Yes.

鲍文对你说了好多精彩的话。

And Bowen had such amazing things to say about you.

而且只是

And just

你们在一起时的那个素描，那是你的主意。

you that sketch when you two were together as the that was your idea.

对吧？

Right?

当你基本上在扮演

That when you were basically playing

你妈妈的某种版本？

some version of your mom?

我是。

I was.

我是。

I was.

某种版本的

A version of

我妈妈。

my mom.

对于不记得的人来说，那有点像一个游戏，某种版本。

For people that don't remember, was kind of like a game a version.

嗯。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

她也为这一点感到非常自豪。

She's very proud of that too.

嗯。

Yeah.

这本来是一场搞砸了的游戏之夜。

It was a game night that went wrong, basically.

确实如此。

It sure was.

嗯。

Yeah.

你带着这个想法来到鲍森，她说这就像收到一份礼物。

And you came to Bowen with the idea, which she said was like being handed a gift.

是的。

Yes.

因为有时候生活需要滋养艺术。

Because sometimes life has to inform art.

而这就是那样的时刻之一。

And this was one of those moments.

我当时想，

I was like,

鲍森，如果这不是我们该用的，那这件事发生就没有意义。

Bowen, there's no reason that this happened if we're not supposed to use it.

那你的妈妈是什么样的？

And it was a So what is your mom like?

跟我们说说你妈妈是什么样的。

Tell us what your mom is like.

就像那个素描吗？

Like that sketch?

我的意思是，有时候吧。

I mean, just sometimes.

有时候吧。

Just sometimes.

那是她的一面。

That's a side of her.

她是一个美丽、美好的灵魂。

She's a beautiful, gorgeous soul.

我非常爱她。

I love her so much.

但她对此也非常自豪。

But she was very proud of that too.

那天演出开始前十五分钟，我提醒了她。

I warned her fifteen minutes before The it show started that night.

她在我化妆间里，说：‘加油，亲爱的！’

She was in my dressing room, she's like break a leg, honey.

她还说：‘对了，抱歉，我得……’

Was like, by the way, sorry, I have to

告诉你一件事，因为假发到了，而且是你的头发。

tell you because the wig arrived and it's your hair.

我以为会是金色的波波头。

I thought it was gonna be like a blonde bob.

我不知道那会是你的头发。

I didn't know it was gonna be your hair.

但既然这是你的头发，你就得知道，我在小品里演的是你。

But since it is your hair, you do have to know I'm you in a sketch.

她就说：‘哦，我等不及了。’

And she was like, oh, I can't wait.

她非常喜欢。

And she loved it.

她非常喜欢。

She loved it.

我跑向……的时候听见她说了

And I heard her as I was running to

我快速换装时，她说：

my quick change being like,

这讲的是我。

that's about me.

这讲的是我。

That's about me.

她看见我了。

She's seeing me.

她喜欢

She loved

它。

it.

她很喜欢。

She loved it.

那太好了。

That's great.

但我们正在举行家庭游戏夜，我哥哥的丈夫的兄弟是客人。

But we were having a family game night, and my brother's husband's brother was a guest.

我们在玩游戏。

We were playing games.

你知道，我并没有像我哥哥和妈妈那样，把玩游戏看得那么竞争激烈。

And, you know, my my I don't have I didn't get this thing that my brother and my mom have where playing games is really, really competitive.

好吧，你难道不只想玩得开心吗？

Okay, don't you just want to have fun.

我喜欢玩得开心。

I love to have fun.

我想和每个人在一起。

I want to be with everyone.

我爱他们。

I love them.

我非常感激我们能在一起的时光。

I'm like really thankful for the time that we get to be together.

我心想：太好了，我们来玩个游戏吧。

I'm like, yay, let's play a game.

他们可不是这样的。

That's not how they are.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们是为我们而努力的。

They're going for us.

他们也很感激。

And they're really grateful too.

而且在有人输掉之前，气氛都很好。

And it's good vibes until, you know, someone's losing.

然后，我妈妈小声嘀咕了一句，什么‘小弟弟综合症’之类的。

And then, yeah, my mom just said like under her breath like, tiny dick syndrome or something.

我

And I

我当时说：

was like,

哇，妈妈？

woah, mommy?

对不起。

Excuse me.

妈妈。

Mommy.

等等。

Wait.

等等。

Wait.

妈妈，你心里想的说出来了。

Mommy, your your inside thought went outside.

是的，女士。

Yeah, ma'am.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时说，妈妈，你刚才是不是说漏嘴了。

I was like, mom, you didn't just say that.

他们都笑了，但笑得有点紧张。

And they were all, like, giggling but, like, nervously.

我当时想，她在开玩笑。

And I was like, this is she's joking.

她在表演一段。

She's doing a bit.

她就说，不。

And she was like, no.

那就是这么回事。

That's what that is.

我当时说，正往下走。

And I was like Coming down

从枪管里冲下来，力度很大。

the barrel so hard.

我当时说，不好意思，各位。

And I was like, excuse me, guys.

鲍文，你好。

Bowen, hi.

好像刚发生了什么事。

Like, something has just happened.

在我们生命的某个时刻，我们必须用到这个。

And at some point in our lives, we have to use this.

你在里面特别搞笑。

And you were so funny in it.

我的意思是，你做的那么多东西都特别搞笑。

I mean, you're so funny in so much stuff that you did.

我的意思是，你在多明戈唱歌跑调，这可不容易，我遇到了。

I mean, Thank you're you're singing off key in Domingo, which is hard to do, I met.

唱歌跑调很难吗？

Was it hard to do to sing

跑调吗？

off key?

很有趣。

It was fun.

很有趣。

Was fun.

我喜欢每次回到麦克风前，情况都变得更糟。

I liked that it got worse every time I came back to the mic.

它很

It was

就像一开始非常微妙。

like as as it started really subtly.

是的。

Yeah.

但是，不，

But but, no,

但在《游戏夜》中，我

but with game night, I

我不得不为这个争取。

I I had to fight for that one.

就像你说的，有时候当你努力争取，最终人们相信它时，是最有成就感的。

Like you said, like sometimes it's the most gratifying when you fight for it and then finally people believe in it.

我太开心了。

I was so happy.

我从你身上感受到，你知道，你已经工作了这么长时间，足够明白变老的一个好处是，你知道自己擅长什么。

I feel like I get a sense from you that, you know, and you've been working long enough now to know that one of the things I think that's nice about getting older is you know what you're good at.

就像，我觉得自己能做好这件事。

Like, you're like, I think I can do this well.

当我们还在摸索自己真正能胜任什么的时候，情况并不总是如此。

Like, that isn't always the case when we're figuring ourselves out, like what we can actually deliver on.

但我觉得这就是我想说的自信。

But I feel like that's what I mean about the confidence.

我觉得你明白。

I feel like you know

天啊。

Oh god.

你知道自己在喜剧方面擅长什么。

What you can do well comedically.

这真是一个如此慷慨而美好的话。

That is such a generous and nice thing to say.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我希望这样没问题。

I hope this is okay.

抱歉我在这里。

Sorry that I'm here.

不。

No.

我很好。

I'm good.

但是像

But like

但我为你感到难过。

But I feel bad about you.

我知道什么让我觉得痒。

I know what tickles me.

我知道，我明白玩家们想要体验的那种感觉。

I know that I I know how it feels like with the players like to experience.

如果它有那种气泡感，那种痒痒的感觉，那就有可能，你知道吗？

And if it has that like carbonation, that ticklish thing, it's then there's a chance, you know?

嗯。

Yeah.

我不是那种会……你知道的，我从来不会，但当时我们在劳伦的办公室，正在核对流程，他一直把游戏夜往后挪。

And I am not one to, you know, I would never, but we were in Lauren's office and we were going over the run of show and he kept moving game night over.

我就说：劳伦，真的很抱歉，我们至少能……

And I was like, Lauren, I'm so sorry, please can we at least

试着穿得正式一点吗？

try to dress?

我们能

Can we

求你了，试着穿一下好吗？

please try to dress please?

真的很抱歉，我向你保证，我欠你一辈子。

I'm so sorry, like I promise I owe you forever.

我们能不能至少试着穿一下？

Can we just try to dress?

再多加点工作人员。

Little more crew.

他又给挪回去了。

And he moved it back.

好吧。

Okay.

嗯。

Yeah.

我的意思是，人们不知道SNL系统这么酷又吓人的一点是，它到现在还在用索引卡片。

I mean, people don't know that that what's so cool and terrifying about the SNL system is it still uses just index cards.

我喜欢这些索引卡片。

I love the index cards.

你有这些写着场景的索引卡片，整个过程就像一场高中话剧。

And you have these index cards with your scenes, and then it's just very like high school play.

你走进去，所有人都抬头看自己的卡片有没有被选进节目。

You walk in and everyone looks up to see if their card made it into the show.

这太特别了。

It's so special.

是的。

It is.

这真的非常传统。

It's really old school.

当我听到你刚才说移动索引卡片时，我突然有点心理阴影——那其实挺健康的。

And it is I have a little bit of PTSD when I see index When you just said moving the index card, that I just had a moment of like That's so healthy.

因为我记得很多次，卡片明明放在安全区，可你一进来就问：‘我的卡片去哪儿了？’

Because I remember many times where the index card was in a safe zone, and then you come in, you're like, where did it go?

哦，不。

Oh, no.

等等。

Wait.

你有想

Do you have ones that you want to

分享的吗？

share about?

你知道吗，这些索引卡片还有一个有趣的地方，就是底部总会有一堆卡片，因为演出经常超时。

Well, you know what's also fun about those index cards is there is always kind of a collection at the bottom because the show often runs long.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且，你知道的，有时候人们不得不临时删掉一些内容。

And, you know, sometimes things have to get cut on the fly as people know.

会有两张卡片在底部争抢位置。

There'll be like two index cards fighting for the bottom.

对。

Right.

会有两个场景在底部，你会说，看看哪个能留下来。

There'll be two scenes that are in the bottom and you're like, see on the mat, like, let's see which one makes it.

而且你直到

And you don't know until

你也不知道。

And you don't know.

就是啊。

It's just yeah.

这确实会培养你的抗挫能力，我觉得。

It really does kind of build your, I think, your tolerance for rejection.

对。

Right.

是啊。

Yeah.

你就慢慢习惯了，觉得没关系，这并不是我最后一个好点子，下周还得再试一次。

Just kind of like you get used to thinking, okay, this isn't my last good idea, I have to try again next week.

我觉得这样挺好。

I think that's good.

嗯。

Yeah.

但你感觉，我觉得鲍文提到你时说得特别好，因为他不仅是你的朋友，还特别喜欢说和你聊天有多轻松。

But you feel but I feel like well, Bowen was so great talking about you because, know, he's such a friend and also loves talking about how easy it is to talk to you.

然后他提的两个问题真的很有趣。

And then his two questions were really funny.

其中一个，我其实不太明白。

One, I don't really understand.

其中一个有点像是——因为你根本不可能。

One was kind of like- because you could no.

它们是，但其中一个问题是：阿丽安娜会怎么描述她职业生涯的走向？

They were they're but one was like, what what would Ariana say is the trajectory of her career?

统一的主题是什么？

What is the unifying theme?

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

我知道。

I know.

这个问题在采访初期可能有点难回答，但不，我觉得其实很清楚。

It's kinda might be hard to answer this early in the interview, but No, I feel it feels clear actually.

她准备好回答了。

She's ready to answer.

这种感觉清晰得令人难以置信。

It just it feels as clear as Incredible.

是啊，我不知道。

Yeah, I don't know.

我觉得自从我开始做些不同的事情后，我对自己和我的艺术有了更多的连接。

I think I just am feeling a lot more connected to myself and my art since I started doing different things.

我想，你知道，我花了那么多时间只做流行音乐，但我小时候是个热爱音乐剧和喜剧的女孩。

I think, you know, I spent so much time only doing pop music, but I grew up as a girl who loved musical theater and comedy.

所以我认为，对我灵魂、艺术以及我给予自己的东西来说，最好的方式就是追逐那些在当下感觉非常对的事情。

So I think the thing that will be like best for my soul and also for my art and for what I'm giving myself to is if I'm chasing things that sort of feel just very right in the moment.

即使它是即兴的，是些不同的东西。

Even if it's spontaneous, if it's something different.

比如我现在正在拍一部电影，因为我读了剧本后非常喜欢，它很有趣，演员阵容也很棒，我非常兴奋。

Like I am doing a movie right now because it's a role that I read the script and I love it and it's funny and I love the cast and I'm so excited.

然后明年我会演一小段演出，因为那确实是我内心真正觉得不错的事情。

And then I'm going to do a small stint of shows next year because that is like something that authentically sounded good to me.

是的。

Yeah.

然后，你知道，从那里还有其他不同的事情。

And then, you know, from there, there are other things that are different.

我觉得追随这些真实的冲动是个非常好的主意，是一件好事。

And I think following those authentic impulses feel it feels like a really good idea, like a good thing.

我觉得我真的

I think I really

我觉得这是一种随着年龄增长和逐渐理解的过程，比如倾听自己的身体，没错。

I think it's a sense of like getting older and getting understanding, like listening to your own body, like yeah.

弄清楚首先要问自己想要什么，而我们在忙于工作时并不总是这样，有时我们做事情是因为我们必须做或应该做。

Figuring out Figuring out, asking yourself what do you want first, which isn't always the case in when we're doing a lot of work, we're sometimes doing things because we have to do them or we should do them.

然后当你花哪怕一秒钟问自己：我想做什么？

And then when you take even a second to say, what do I wanna do?

什么感觉是对的，没错。

What feels Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

这是需要时间去学会的东西。

That's something that is learned over time.

对我来说，我一开始进入这一切时，我的流行音乐事业某种程度上占据了我全部的生活，而那时我根本没有这种意识，没错。

For me, I, you know, sort of came into all of this and my pop career sort of took over my life in a way I didn't have that at all, you Yeah.

我觉得自己非常幸运和感激，能够意识到不同的创意事业是可以并存的。

And I think that is I feel very like privileged and grateful to have learned that there can be room for different creative endeavors.

是的。

Yeah.

这真是一件非常美好的事。

So that's been a really beautiful thing.

我觉得很多事情都会发生很大变化。

I think it will change a lot.

我认为过去十到十五年，和即将到来的岁月会非常不同。

I think the first, the last, you know, ten or fifteen years will look very different to the ones that are coming up.

我不想做出任何确定性的断言，但我确实很期待这次小型巡演，不过我觉得可能很长、很长、很长、很长一段时间都不会再有了。

And I don't wanna say any definitive things like I do know that I'm very excited to do this small tour, but I think it might not happen again for a long, long, long, long time.

当然。

Sure.

你知道的？

You know?

所以我会全力以赴，这将会很美好，我非常感激，我想这就是我做这件事的原因。

So I'm gonna give it my all and it's gonna be beautiful and I'm so grateful that I think that's why I'm doing it.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我觉得这是最后一场狂欢。

Because I'm like, one last hurrah.

完美。

Perfect.

因为就目前而言。

Because For now.

就目前而言。

For now.

永远别说不，

Never say No,

不，不，我不是。

no, no, I'm not.

而且，我觉得正如你所说，当你能够暂时远离表演、音乐或写作时，再回到这些事情时，你会更加珍惜它们。

And it'll and also, I think to your point, like when you're able to step away from acting or music or writing, you then you really appreciate it when you get to go back to it.

多得多。

So much more.

而且你能更好地对待这种艺术形式，因为你心怀感激，真正地沉浸在其中。

And like you are able to do better by that art form because you're appreciative and really able to feel present in it.

这让我想到鲍文的下一个问题：你最喜欢唱哪个音符？

Well, leads me to Bowen's next question, which was, what is your favorite note to sing?

天哪。

Oh my god.

我最喜欢唱的音符。

My favorite note to sing.

我知道。

I know.

好吧。

Okay.

我来给你唱一个音符。

I'm gonna play you a note.

你告诉我你喜不喜欢。

You tell me if you like it.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

因为我们需要搞定，我的意思是，我刚才一说出G这个音符就紧张了，因为我觉得，那确实是个音符。

Because we gotta get I mean, I I just got nervous when I just named the note g because I was like, that's a note.

对吧？

Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

我知道G这个音符是我

I know that g is is a note that I

那是我13岁时唱过的最高音。

that was the highest note of my lib that I sang in 13.

我觉得G音已经很高了。

I think g is pretty high.

那是我13岁时唱过的音。

It was something that I sang in 13.

我知道。

I know that.

这是个不错的音。

That's a nice one.

不能告诉你，但我超喜欢。

Can't tell you, but I love it.

好的。

Okay.

我们再来一个。

Let's do another one.

那Is呢

What about Is

这就是我该做的吗？

this what I'm supposed to do?

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

我听不清，我们开始吧。

I can't here we go.

这是一个C。

Here's a c.

哦，太美了。

Oh, beautiful.

还有C

And c

听起来从未这么好过。

has never sounded better.

Mla。

Mla.

Mla。

Mla.

太美了。

Gorgeous.

好吧。

Okay.

所以弯腰进去，我们不知道。

So bow in, we don't know.

我们不知道答案。

We don't know the answer.

我们不知道。

We don't know.

我确实学到了

I did learn

今天学到了很多音乐理论。

a lot about music theory today.

非常感谢艾米·波勒，感谢我的兴趣。

Thank you so much, Amy Poehler, for my interest.

其中一个音符让我想起了《安妮》，我知道你演过这部音乐剧，它是我最喜爱的音乐剧之一。

One of those notes reminds me of Annie, which I know you were in, which is one of my favorite musicals.

明天。

Tomorrow.

是的。

Yes.

那个音符是什么？

What is that note?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我们永远都不会知道。

We'll never know.

我们永远都不会知道。

We'll never know.

我永远都不会知道。

I'll never know.

但我知道，那个音很难唱。

But I do know That's a hard one to hit.

我听出了其中的关联，我知道你为什么想到这个。

I hear the relation I know why you thought of that.

我最喜欢的音乐剧歌曲之一就是《安妮》中的《也许》。

One of my favorite songs in any musical is Maybe and Annie.

我爱《也许》这首歌。

I love Maybe.

这是一首非常好的歌。

That is such a good song.

一首悲伤的歌。

Sad one.

这真是个悲伤的曲子。

That's a sad one.

嗯，这样就对了。

Well, that'll do it.

是的。

Yeah.

这能让你振作起来。

That'll get you going.

这能让你振作起来。

That'll get you going.

当《安妮》里的小孩子好玩吗？

And was that fun to be a little kid in Annie?

当《安妮》里的小孩子很好玩。

It was fun to be a little kid in Annie.

多棒的一个角色啊。

What a part.

多大的一个角色啊。

What a big part.

在那个年纪，这真是一次巨大的挑战。

It was really a huge undertaking at that age.

确实如此。

It's true.

我刚才在和蕾切尔·德雷奇聊天。

I was I was talking to Rachel Dratch.

我们在聊那些塑造了我们的音乐剧。

We were talking about musicals that, like, shaped us.

对于我这个年纪的女性，你知道，我五十多岁了，像《安妮》这样的剧简直就是为我们而生的。

And for women my age, you know, I'm in my fifties, like, Annie was just it was kind of like it was about it was just like it was about us.

它简直就是为我们量身定做的音乐剧。

Like, it was it was like a musical for us.

真的就是这样。

It really was.

那种感觉就像《猫》一样，根本不是关于我们。

It felt like the fur it was not about us.

我们并不是孤儿。

We were not orphans.

我在想，等等。

Was thinking, wait.

等等。

Wait.

但它是属于我们的。

But it was for us.

《安妮》是为你而演的？

Annie was for you?

它讲的是年轻人，主角和我们同龄。

It was a young it was a she was the same age as us.

对吧？

Right?

我的意思是，让一个小女孩担任一部百老汇音乐剧的主角，而且剧名还以她命名，这本身就很有意义。

Like, that part was, you know, to just to have a young girl be the lead of a of a Broadway show, and it's named after her.

是的。

Yes.

它不叫《沃巴克爸爸和小女孩》。

It's not called daddy Warbucks and the little girl.

它叫《安妮》。

It's called Annie.

它不应该

It shouldn't

叫那个名字。

be be called that.

它不应该叫那个名字。

It shouldn't be called that.

我不喜欢这个标题。

I don't like that title.

等等。

Wait.

所以你的，你的

So what are your what are your

嗯，这很有趣，是我的《周六夜现场》还是我的音乐剧？

Well, it's funny with, oh, my SNL or my musical?

你的《周六夜现场》的花絮？

Your SNL like Bloopers?

花絮。

Blooper.

你最喜欢的花絮时刻是什么？

What's one of your favorite blooper moments?

我想到一件事，有一次我演一个小品，当时杰森·贝特曼是主持人，小品里有一只猴子，我觉得是只黑猩猩，像动物农场里的演员？

One thing that comes to mind is one time I was doing a sketch where I think Jason Bateman was the host and there was a monkey in the sketch, like I a would say maybe a chimpanzee, like a An a animal farm actor?

对。

Yes.

动物演员。

An animal actor.

你对动物演员怎么看？

How do feel about animal actors?

我不喜欢它们。

I don't like them.

是的。

Yeah.

不

Not

好。

good.

我不喜欢它们。

I don't like them.

可怜。

Sad.

这对我来说太有压力了。

It's too stressful for me.

而且那是一只年轻的黑猩猩。

And it was like a young chimpanzee.

我一直这样做，只是想展示它有多强壮。

And I keep I'm going like this because I just wanna show how strong it was.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我走过那只黑猩猩时，它伸出手抓住了我的手腕。

And I walked past the chimpanzee, and it reached out and grabbed me by the wrist.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

而且不肯松手。

And wouldn't let go.

哦，该死。

Oh, fuck.

在快速换装的时候。

In the middle of a quick change.

我想是因为我的金发或者我的气场。

I think it was like the blonde hair or my vibe.

哦。

Oh.

我开始尖叫。

And I started screaming.

哦，这真的很有创伤性。

Oh, that's really traumatic.

黑猩猩非常强壮。

And chimpanzees are very strong.

是的。

Yeah.

我我像我

I've I like I

众所周知。

famously.

是的。

Yeah.

所以那次就是这样，我当时想，它就是不松开我，是的。

So that was one where I was like and I couldn't get it to let go of me Yeah.

当我有它的时候，一切都还好。

When I had It was all fine.

一切都还好。

It was all fine.

但那不是重点。

But that wasn't it.

那会被认为是出错镜头吗？

That was would that be considered a blooper?

我不知道。

I don't I don't know.

我觉得这像是创伤后应激障碍。

I think that's like PTSD.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是创伤后应激障碍。

That's PTSD.

那就像

That's like

一个不同的文件夹。

a different folder.

但我

But I

我喜欢。

love it.

我很高兴我知道。

I'm glad I know.

我想和你聊聊音乐剧，因为我知道你很喜欢音乐剧。

I do wanna talk to you about musicals because I know you love musicals.

当然。

Of course.

我确实喜欢。

I do.

我觉得我非常喜欢它们。

I feel I like them very much.

我确实喜欢。

I do.

我非常喜欢它们。

I like them very much.

我觉得它们……我也承认它们很荒谬。

I feel They are I can also admit they're ridiculous.

至于我喜爱它们的原因，是当我感到被带入另一个世界时，对我来说，那是看任何东西时最棒的感觉，但相比其他类型，我更难在音乐剧中获得这种沉浸感。

Well, what I what I love about them is when I feel transported, to me, that is the best feeling ever when I watch anything or but it's harder for me to get transported in musicals than in other things.

而且我会觉得，你知道，这有点像即兴表演。

And I get like you know, it's kind of like improv.

在那一刻有一种脆弱感。

Like, there's a vulnerability in that moment.

如果演得好，你会兴奋不已。

And if it's good, you're psyched.

如果演得不好，那就很糟糕了。

And if it's not good It's tough.

确实很糟糕。

It's tough.

这很痒痒。

It's ticklish.

是的。

Yes.

你拍过很多音乐剧，现在正在制作一部关于最著名音乐剧《女巫前传》的电影，你是怎么在演员即将开唱的那一刻把握节奏的？

How do you when you're you've done many musicals, you're currently making a film about probably the most famous musical, Wicked.

就是，在演员即将开唱的那一刻。

Like, when you're when you have that moment right before the actor sings.

对。

Right.

就像从悬崖上跳下去一样。

It's just like jumping off a cliff kind of.

你必须保持在表演的状态中，然后突然切换到唱歌。

You have to stay in the acting moment and then switch into song.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know what I mean?

在那个珍贵的时刻，你会做些什么？

What do you do in the preciousness of that moment?

对于《女巫前传》来说，幸运的是，剧本为角色和情境写得非常好。

Well, for Wicked, thankfully, do feel like it's really well written for the characters and for the moment.

所以感觉他们必须用歌声表达下一个想法，你知道的，但我觉得这样能尽可能真实，让演唱看起来就像表演一样，无论怎样，声乐训练早在你上台前就已经完成了。

So it feels like they have to sing the next thought, you know, but I think so that it can be as honest as possible and feel like it's just acting and like the singing, whatever, it's vocal training way long before you get there.

以至于它甚至不会像一个思考的过程。

So that it doesn't even feel like a thought.

我在第一次试镜前训练了数月，因为葛琳达的声音和我的声音完全不同。

Like I trained my voice for months before my first audition because Glinda's voice is so different than mine.

你是怎么训练的？

How did you train it?

我跟我的声乐教练埃里克·维托一起训练，这纯粹是肌肉记忆。

I trained with my vocal coach, Eric Vito, and it just takes muscle memory.

所以连续几周、几周、几周，我每天都去练习。

So for weeks and weeks and weeks, I'd go every day.

那时我正在《好声音》担任导师，每天早上我会去找埃里克，然后去我的表演教练南希·班克斯那里，我们练习一些随机的内容，甚至不是与葛琳达相关的东西，只是为了激活那些肌肉。

I was a coach on The Voice at the time and I was going in the mornings to Eric and then my acting coach, Nancy Banks, and we would work on random things, not even Glinda related things, just to sort of get the muscles moving.

我已经很久没有演戏了，所以为试镜做好准备对我来说非常重要。

And I hadn't acted in a long time and it was important to me to get ready for the audition.

我只是每天花时间重新训练我假声和歌剧式的发声区域，因为我很久没有用过它了，如果你回看那时的语音笔记，就能听到音质的变化。

And, you know, I just spent every day going to retrain that falsetto operatic area of my voice because I wasn't using it for And a long you can hear the quality change if you look through like the voice notes from way back then.

我第一次去的时候，气息泄漏得特别严重。

Like the first week I went, there was so much air seeping out.

但随着时间推移，一周又一周，声音逐渐变得更加纯净、清晰。

And then slowly but surely, like week after week, there was more purity and more clarity to

当音调升高时，是不是需要减少气息？

When the get higher, does there have to be less air?

是不是声带必须更加紧绷？

Like everything has to be tighter in the vocal cords?

不，我想我意思是，你能听出我的声音里多了更多沙哑感。

No, I think it just sounded I guess what I mean by that was that you could hear like more rasp in my voice.

对。

Right.

所以空气量不变，但音质变得越来越清晰、纯净

So the same amount of air, but just the quality became clearer and more pure

随着时间推移。

as time went on.

格琳达的声音没有沙哑感。

And Glinda doesn't have a rasp.

她很敏感？

She's so touchy?

不。

No.

我的意思是，除非有情绪上的爆发之类的情况，否则可以有些不完美。

I mean, unless there's like an emotional break or something like that, that can be imperfect.

但她拥有纯净的音色。

But she has a pure tone.

是的。

Yeah.

而且更古典。

And it's more classical.

我进行了非常刻苦的训练，以便在拍摄时不会去想这个问题。

And I trained really hard so that that could not be a thought on set.

这样当我们进入拍摄并需要无缝衔接歌曲时，希望你们知道，这不会成为压力，不会成为问题。

So that by the time we were in it and had to move seamlessly into the songs, hopefully, you know, that wasn't a stress, that wasn't a thing.

没人担心音符会不会唱对。

No one was worried about, are the notes gonna come out right?

如果没唱对，那可能在情感上反而更合理。

And if they didn't, it probably made sense emotionally.

你知道，有一些时刻，尤其是在第二部中，我们有停顿，有哽咽，你能听出来。

You know, there are moments where, especially in the second one where we have breaks and we have like, choked up and you can hear it.

而这正是在片场现场演唱的美妙之处，因为你能尊重场景中正在发生的一切。

And that's kind of like the beauty of being able to do it live on set, because you get to honor what's happening in the scene.

是的。

Yeah.

但这太棒了。

But it's wicked.

我明白你的意思，也许如果是别的东西，我就不知道了。

And I hear what you're saying where like, maybe if it was something else, it might be I don't know.

这种来回切换真的很难做到。

It's like that back and forth is so hard to do.

但幸运的是，这些歌曲感觉非常有深意。

But, you know, thankfully, these songs felt so intentional.

《女巫前传》中的每一首歌都显得如此富有目的性，是的。

Every single song in Wicked feels so purposeful Yeah.

为了角色的发展和剧情的推进。

For the arcs of the characters and for what's going on.

你演格琳达的时候用的是不同的声音吗？

Did you speak in a different voice as Glenda?

我确实这么做了。

I did.

用更高的音调，这样唱歌时能保持在那个音域吗？

A higher voice so you could stay there when you sang?

我确实这么做了。

I did.

很多时候，当我唱歌时，我的声音就自然处于这个位置。

It was kind of so on days when I'm singing, I'll and also most of the time, this is kind of where my voice sits, is like here.

是的。

Yeah.

但有时候音调会降低，有时候又会升高。

But sometimes it'll move lower and then sometimes it'll move higher.

当葛琳达年轻时，她的声音更尖亮一些。

For Glinda, when she's younger, it was a little bit pingier.

当她年长时，声音就更沉稳、更有生活感了。

When she's older, it's a little more grounded, a little more lived in.

她现在就像公众人物了。

She's like a public figure now.

她应该知道，她肩负着这样的责任。

She's supposed to you know, she has this like responsibility.

所以她的声音更成熟了一些，因为她经历得更多了。

So it's a little more and she's been through more.

所以音色略有不同。

So it has a slightly different tone.

但当她再次和艾尔菲在一起玩乐时，声音就更有活力了。

But then when she's with Elfie again and having fun, there's more pep.

而且

And

是的，我觉得人们能追踪到这一切真是太了不起了。

yeah, I feel like people That's incredible that It you tracked all

这很重要。

was important.

是的。

Yeah.

谢谢。

Thank you.

但你知道，这感觉非常重要且有帮助，因为我们当时正在同时拍摄这两部电影。

But, you know, it felt really important and helpful because we were shooting both films at the same time.

是的。

Yeah.

所以为了确保我也用不同颜色的便利贴记录了所有这些内容。

So just making sure I also I kept track of all of that with color coded sticky tabs

这样我就可以

so that I could like

看一眼颜色，以便来回切换。

take a peek at which color so that I could bounce back and forth.

然后，你知道，还有很多小工具帮助我在两部电影之间转换心态，但这是其中之一。

And then, you know, there were a lot of little tools that helped with the mindset shift between both films, but that was one of them.