布兰迪·卡莉尔

在很多方面是郊区生活，但房子很小，大家都挤在一起。

Well, suburban in many ways, but small house and everyone very kind of on top of each other.

我们家就像是人们途经时会来停留的地方。

And we were kind of the house where people would come through.

这样挺好的，因为总有人来串门，但家里也总是很热闹。

So it's nice that way because people would come over but busy house.

是的，我总觉得想躲起来，比如经常跑到树林里，骑上自行车，就这样，平衡安静的时光和忙碌的时光，但家里充满活力，满是爱。

Yeah, and I felt like, you know, I wanted to do a lot of hiding, like a lot of like going into the woods and going like you know getting on my bike and just like, yeah, like balancing quiet time and, and busy time, but a lively house full of a lot of love.

是的，我刚意识到，我们开车经过我家时，那房子感觉像《周六夜现场》。

Yeah, I just realized my house, like, when we were just driving, house felt like Saturday Night Live.

真的吗？人们搬着巨大的家具，

No way people moving giant pieces of furniture,

直到最后一刻都在忙活，压力巨大，什么都有可能变，没有任何事是确定的。

everything to the last second tons of pressure, anything could change, nothing is guaranteed.

家里是不是有很多人有多动症？

Anything have a lot ADHD in the house?

大概吧。

Mean, probably.

没被诊断出来？

Undiagnosed?

完全如此。

Entirely.

我想，我的意思是，我觉得每个人都会拖到最后一刻。

I would think I mean, I would think it's like everyone would be would fall into that Waiting for the last minute.

所以这解释了为什么我那么喜欢待在那里，因为我在想，为什么我在这个环境中反而如此适应？

So that explains why I love being there so much, because I'm like, why am I just thriving in this environment?

你简直游刃有余。

You're just crushing

就像，是啊，就在最后时刻

like Yeah, right before the

特别享受。

just loving it.

但这对表演有帮助，我觉得，因为你只能在一天中抽出有限的时间——我的意思是，有些人一整天都在为表演做准备，但你只需要为表演设置一个倒计时，不可能一整天都保持表演状态。

But that helps with performing, I think, because you just, you know, you can only have like so much time in the day where I mean some people spend their whole day getting ready for their performance but you just have to kind of create like a countdown for the performance, you can't stay performance ready all day.

不，我的意思是，这取决于你的状态类型，以及你作为表演者的性质，涉及的风险程度可能会变得非常大——是的，我完全知道该怎么唱歌。

No, I mean depending on like what your zone is like what kind of performer, you are to the element of like risk involved gets really can get really heavy like, yeah, I know exactly how to sing.

比如，无论 stakes 多高，只要我要唱歌，我就没问题。

Like, so if I'm just almost doesn't matter how high the stakes are like if I'm going to sing, I'm going to be okay.

但我有个理论，我的意思是，我可能错了，这并不是要贬低任何其他专业人士，但我认为音乐家们对喜剧演员着迷。

But I have this theory that, that, and I mean I could be wrong, and this is not to downgrade anybody else's pros but I think that like musicians are obsessed with comedians.

你没注意到吗？

Have you not noticed that?

这是我的理论。

Here's my theory.

好吧，说说看。

Okay, tell me.

每个喜剧演员都希望自己是音乐家，而每个音乐家都认为自己是喜剧演员。

Every comedian wishes they were musician, and every musician thinks they're a comedian.

因为我分不清

Because I can't tell

你不知道有多少音乐人说过：‘我其实特别搞笑。’

you how many musicians have been like, I'm really funny.

我就说：好吧。

And I'm like, okay.

不过，我很高兴他们这么觉得。

Well, I'm glad they think that.

但不，我们相处得很好。

But no, get along, we get along.

是的，因为我觉得我们真的很欣赏对方所做的事情。

Yeah, because I think we really appreciate what the other does.

而且两者之间有相似之处，但有时我会觉得，我最喜欢的《周六夜现场》的一些回忆，就是看着音乐人，我简直对他们能做的事情叹为观止。

And there's a similarity but also we sometimes feel like I like I love I my, some of my favorite memories of SNL is watching musicians like I just am in awe of what musicians get to do.

但你觉得，为什么我们会这么互相喜爱呢？

But what do you think why do you think we kind of love each other?

我觉得吧，你知道的，音乐人其实都挺崇拜喜剧人的，因为喜剧人要承担表演冷场的风险——我们太清楚全力以赴表演却毫无观众回应是什么滋味了。

I think that, you know, musicians kind of worship comedians because of the risk that they're taking, like we know what it means to do our thing and then have that die to no reaction.

而且反过来，我觉得喜剧人总觉得音乐人站在金字塔尖。

And, and then I think comedians just, just think they're at the top of the pyramid.

难不成他们还会

Don't wish they

想当别人啊，

were anyone else,

因为他们都特别聪慧。

because they're so intelligent.

而且还有

Well, and

还有你说的那种自信，就像你说的，你必须得有这份底气才能站上台，哪怕演出搞砸了也能扛住，不然你就真的难办了。

they also are like the cockiness, to your point you have to be cocky to get out there and bomb or you're really in trouble.

我是说，你会不会——就像我刚才说的，哪怕场面再大、压力再大，我都能开口唱歌。

I mean, do you do it's like, it's like I like I said I can sing no matter how high the stakes are.

如果我要演奏12首歌，我害怕的不是这12首歌。

And if I'm going to play 12 songs, it's not the 12 songs I'm afraid of.

我害怕的是歌曲之间的十五秒，我得在那段时间说点什么，赶紧离开

It's the fifteen seconds in between the songs of what I have to say in that Get out

这里。

of here.

我才害怕这个。

That's what I'm afraid of.

好吧，这就是我不是音乐人的原因，因为对我来说，那段互动根本不是问题，问题是唱歌。

Okay, that's that's why I'm not a musician because I would have no problem with that but the singing.

是的。

Yeah.

如果我们像在《Go Girls》里那样组个乐队，你的闲聊加上我的演唱，简直所向披靡。

So if we like recreated it in Go Girls, like if we were a band together, your banter and my singing would be unstoppable.

虽然采访才刚开始，但我很想跟你聊聊你的偶像，不过我们先聊聊Indigo Girls好吗？

You know, this is early in the interview but I want to talk to you about your heroes but can we just talk about the Indigo Girls for a second.

一整天。

All day long.

好的。

Okay.

首先，她们中有一个叫艾米，这已经像是一个梦想了，艾米丽和艾米。

First of all, the fact that one of them was called Amy was already like a dream Emily and Amy.

你小时候，比如十几岁的时候，就听过她们的歌，对吧？

They you just you've heard them like when you were like a teenager, right?

14岁、15岁？

14, 15?

你说她们真的激励你拿起了吉他。

You say like they really motivated you to pick up a guitar.

我的意思是，你当时已经在唱歌了。

I mean you were singing

百分之百。

100%.

是的

Yeah.

你听到他们的时候，是什么吸引了你？

What was it about them when you heard them?

因为我对是什么打动了我有个看法，就像我对你音乐的感受一样。

Because I have a theory about what it was for me, like what I why I was and it's the same way I feel about your music.

那你先说吧。

So go ahead you first.

嗯，

Well,

我是在电影《费城故事》里第一次听到他们的声音的。

I heard their voices first in that film, Philadelphia.

他们翻唱了那首《I Can Tell by Your Eyes》，你一看就知道你可能哭了很久。

They were covering that rod to I can tell by your eyes that you've probably been crying forever.

我当时就想，这是什么音色？

And I was like, what is that tone?

他们的声音听起来不像男性也不像女性。

Like they don't sound male or female.

他们的演唱对象似乎不是其他人通常唱给那些人的群体。

They don't sound like they're singing to the same people that everyone else is singing to.

他们的声音和音乐制作方式有一种令人振奋的力量，当时作为一个14岁的孩子，它让我从自我中抽离出来，开始好奇他们究竟是谁。

There was just something galvanizing about their voices and the way they were making music that just like pulled me out of myself as like a 14 year old made me curious about who they were.

那甚至都不是他们的一首歌。

It wasn't even one of their songs.

就在那时，我学校的朋友布里安娜·格拉科借给了我一张《Swampophilia》的CD。

And that's when, my friend from school, Brianna Graco, loaned me her, Swampophilia CD.

我当时就想，这是什么？

And I was like, what is this?

听听这些和声，到底是谁在什么时候唱的？

Listen to these harmonies, like, who's singing when?

节奏是错开的，完全不合拍。

It's staggered, it's out of time.

这太神奇了，你知道吗，尤其是鼓点，我完全沉迷于他们音乐的复杂性和和声，变得无比忠诚，成了他们的追随者，他们做的每一件事我都去关注。

It's amazing, you know, and the drums really I was just became so obsessed with their musical complexity and harmonies that I just became devoted and a disciple I went to everything they ever did.

我整天排着队，从早到晚，作为一个铁杆粉丝——至今仍是——是什么吸引你去关注他们呢？

I sat in the line all day, like, from morning till night, as a major fan still a major fan what drew you to them,

我想，有时候感觉有些艺术家活在他们自己的模拟世界里，一个独特的世界，你只能偷偷窥探，但他们完全沉浸在自己的世界中。

I guess, sometimes it feels like there's different artists there's artists that are in their own simulation their own kind of world and you get to come in and peek but they're in their worlds like

对，就像他们的穿着风格、说话方式，以及围绕着他们的那种文化氛围。

right, like and it has a style of dress and style of speak and like a presence of a culture around that.

你可以进入他们的世界，只是偷偷一瞥；而有些艺术家，我认为你就是其中之一，他们从容自信，就像印第戈女孩一样，说：来吧，过来吧，来这儿。

And you can visit their world and you're, and you get to just peek in, and then there are artists and I consider you one of them who are relaxed in the, and honestly confident in their talent, just like Indigo Girls, and they say come in, come over, like, come over here.

他们就是这种感觉，我们想唱他们所有的歌，我熟记他们的歌词，觉得自己唱得像他们一样——每个唱印第戈女孩的人，都觉得自己唱得不错。

And they felt that way, we wanted to sing every one of their songs I knew their lyrics I felt like I sounded like them which everybody who sings the Indigo Girls think they sound good.

他们不是，我们也不是。

They don't, we don't.

但这是

But it's the

你的音乐也是，当我跟着唱的时候，我会觉得自己唱得特别棒。

same with your music like when I sing along your music I'm like, I think I'm really good.

因为背后有一种精神，那种精神并不存在。

Because there's a spirit behind it that isn't.

那种精神是包容的，不会把人拒之门外。

That's it that's inclusive and that doesn't like shut the door.

这很难形容，但你知道我说的是什么，我完全明白你的意思。

It's really it's it's it's hard to explain but you know what I'm talking I know exactly what you're

我懂你在说什么。

talking about.

他们非常自然不做作。

They're so unaffected.

他们听起来就像成熟的女性，一直都是这样。

They sound like grown ass women they always have.

所以当他们开口唱歌时，真正的声音就自然流露出来了。

So like when they open their mouths to sing their actual voice comes out.

她们不是为了取悦男性或某种特定类型的女性。

They're not trying to please men or a certain kind of women.

她们也不想模仿电台里其他人的声音。

They're not trying to sound like anybody else on the radio.

尽管她们的穿着和自我呈现方式如此，但那种真实感却格外动人。

There was just something so human about even though with the clothes they were in the way that they presented themselves.

你说得对，这确实会吸引你靠近。

And you're right, that does invite you in.

还有印第戈女孩，她们会主动走近你。

And also the Indigo Girls, they come to you.

她们以巡演小城镇、仓库和社区剧院而闻名。

Like, they're famous for like touring the small towns and the sheds and the community theaters.

你知道吗？我和德拉奇在《周六夜现场》演过她们？

Do know me and Dratch played them on SNL?

是的，我记得那件事。

Yeah, I do remember that.

我和蕾切尔·德拉奇演过一个场景，但后来再也没有出现过。

Me and Rachel Dratch, one scene, it never it never came back.

我不知道。

I don't know.

当时主持人是兰斯·阿姆斯特朗喜剧的兰斯·阿姆斯特朗，音乐嘉宾是尼尔·杨。

And it was the Lance Armstrong comedians Lance Comedy's Lance Armstrong was the host, and Neil Young was a musical guest.

我们让尼尔·杨加入了印第戈女孩的那段场景。

And we had Neil come in to the Indigo Girls scene.

我们只是假装在做一档脱口秀，大概是这样，当时就我们和十四只狗。

And we just were like, I think we were just pretending we were doing a talk show, probably like, you know, and it was us and like 14 dogs.

是的。

Yeah.

这正是艾米至今的生活方式。

That's exactly how Amy lives to this day.

我觉得她现在可能只有八九只狗，但

I think she's probably only got eight or nine right now but

我觉得我们会从女孩们的开场部分过渡出去，但我必须说，作为一个女中音，这感觉很意外。

and I feel like we'll move off the intro of girls but I just have to say that it feels like as a as an Alto, as a surprising Alto.

因为你会觉得，我不知道，我觉得我的声音比实际更低，但我觉得我的音调其实挺高的。

Because you would think, I don't know, I think my voice I think my voice is lower than it is but I think it pitches quite high.

但回到你的观点，来回切换，犹豫到底想唱艾米莉的部分还是艾米的部分。

But switching, to your point, back and forth like wanting to decide if you want to sing Emily's part or Amy's part.

我们可以唱吗？

Can we sing?

我们可以唱吗？

Can we sing?

好吧，我们来唱《Closer to Fine》吧。

Okay, let's sing Closer to Fine.

我们开始吧。

Here we go.

抱歉，让我先找一下歌词。

Sorry, let me get my words.

我们不仅可以唱《Closer to Fine》，还可以唱一首冷门曲目，你想唱什么都行。

We could not only could we do Closer to Fine, we could do a deep cut, we could do anything you want.

好，我们开始吧。

Okay, here we go.

我来试试唱Amy的部分。

I'll try to do Amy's part.

好的。

Okay.

我觉得你的声音，我觉得那就是你。

I think your I went that's you.

我去看了医生。

I went to the doctor.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

是的

Yep.

234

234.

去看医生了。

Went to the doctor.

我去山里了。

I went to the mountains.

旅行了

Traveled

稍微，就一点点。

a little bit just a little bit.

对

Yeah.

就他妈一点点。

Just Fucking a little hell.

你你是

You were you're

但就在那里。

right there though.

你在

You're in

状态中。

the zone.

我们再来一次。

Let's go again.

好。

Yeah.

234。

234.

我去看医生了。

I went to the doctor.

我去了山上。

I went to the mountains.

我看着那些孩子们。

I looked to the children.

我从喷泉里喝水。

I drank from the fountains.

姑娘，你

Girl, you

做到了。

got it.

你看起来真好。

How Look good you

你好美，布兰迪。

are, Brandi.

让我感觉这么好。

Making me feel so good.

如果我有一把吉他，我们接下来一个小时只会专心为女孩们翻唱歌曲。

If I had a guitar, we would do nothing else but cover in the girls for the next hour.

我全身都在出汗。

I'm totally sweating.

是的。

Yeah.

我出了一身汗。

I'm so sweating.

那真是太刺激了。

That was so exciting.

是谁，是谁第一个告诉你你嗓音很好的？

Who but who was who was the first person that told you you had a good voice?

因为当有人告诉你你嗓音很好时，你要记住一辈子。

Cause when someone says you have a good voice, like, remember it for a lifetime.

从来没人问过我这个问题。

No one's ever asked me that before.

我觉得是我奶奶多洛雷斯，或者我妈妈。

I think it was my grandma Dolores or or my mom.

嗯。

Mhmm.

然后当然还有我自己。

And then definitely me.

我真的很觉得自己嗓音不错。

I really felt like I had a good voice.

是的，大概七岁的时候。

Yeah, like seven years old.

那真是他妈的绝佳嗓音。

That's fucking great voice.

但我没有。

But I didn't.

现在回听那时的录音，我简直想问：那是什么？

When I listen back to it now I'm like, what is that?

哦，七岁？

Oh, at seven?

是的，你知道的，但我实际上八岁时第一次登台，参加了一个叫西北大奥普里社区剧团的演出，我们重现了大奥普里表演。

Yeah, you know, but I actually got on stage for the first time as like an eight year old, I got in like a community theater show called the Northwest Grand Ole Opry, where we reenacted the Grand Ole Opry.

太可爱了。

So cute.

每周三晚上你会去教奥普里乐队你的歌，然后他们在周五和周六让你上台，我当时是个小孩，唱的是罗珊娜·卡什的《田纳西平顶盒》。

And you'd go on Wednesday night and you teach the Opry band your song and then they'd get you out on Friday and Saturday and I was like the kid and, and I did Tennessee Flat Top Box by Roseanne Cash.

我只记得第一次上台时，我走上舞台。

And I just remember like the very first time I did that, I walked out on stage.

我一点也不紧张，戴着眼镜，能看见镜片里的灯光，看到大约三百人的剪影，心想：这就是我该在的地方。

And I wasn't nervous, I had glasses on and I can remember the lights in my glasses and seeing the kind of silhouette of like 300 people and being like, this is where I belong.

这是我感觉最安全、最被理解、最被爱的地方。

This is the safest, most understood and loved place I could I could ever.

我那时就觉得：这就是我的工作了。

I could ever be like, this is my job now.

而且这件事再也没有改变过，它就一直这样保持着。

And it just not never, it never went, that just stayed.

哇哦。

Wow.

所以观众在那一刻告诉你，你可以唱歌，观众当时就在说：是的，我们接受你在这里。

And so the audience told you that you could sing like in that moment, the audience was like, yes, we accept you here.

你很棒。

You're great.

你心里明白。

And you knew it.

太棒了。

So great.

演出结束后，他们都会来找你签名，签在节目单上，签上你的小签名，我就记得当时想：是的，没错，就是这里了。

And the whole thing, they would come up to you at the end of the show and you'd sign their program and you'd sign your little autograph and I just remember thinking yeah, no, this is it.

这就是我的工作。

This is my job.

哇，这太棒了。

Wow, that's awesome.

我的意思是，这也是一个很好的例子，说明在压力情境下保持冷静。

I mean, that's a good example too of like, feeling calm in stressful situations.

我常常像你一样，做事情的时候并不那么紧张，但有时候做完之后，会突然释放出一阵焦虑。

I tend to get like you I'm not so nervous when I'm doing something, sometimes after it's done I have like this discharge of nerves.

你也有这种情况吗？

Does that happen to you?

我最近读了一篇《卫报》的文章。

I was reading an article in The Guardian.

那篇文章真的非常有见地，让我觉得自己好蠢，但又为这种愚蠢感到一丝自豪。

That is, it was such a smart article, and it made me feel so like stupid, but kind of proud to be stupid.

文章基本上说，你所提到的这种状态，对于表演者来说是完全必要的，因为像我们这样让交感神经系统运作，本身就是非常不自然的事情。

Where it basically says that like that what you're talking about is totally necessary in terms of performers, these like, it's such an unnatural thing to have your psychosympathetic nervous system to do what we do.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你需要缺乏某种情境智慧才能做到这一点。

That you have to lack an element of contextual intelligence to do it.

宝贝，我喜欢这样。

Baby, I like it.

我也喜欢。

I like it.

而且他们

And they

他们把它比作罚球和罚球命中的人。

they liken it to like people that can do penalty kicks and like free throws.

我们有一种感觉，觉得不会出任何问题。

It's like we have this thing where we don't think anything could go wrong.

完全正确。

Totally.

我只是，某种程度上会抽离，想着：管他呢，宝贝，最坏能怎么样？

And I'm just and I kinda dissociate in a way of like, whatever, babe, what's the worst that can happen?

被开除

Get

解雇。

fired.

是的。

Yeah.

如果真的出了问题呢。

And then if something does go wrong.

所以如果你没投进罚球的话，

So if you do miss the free throw,

或者

or

你没踢进点球，而这种事你经常发生。

you do miss the penalty, which you do all the time.

对吧。

Right.

你当然不觉得我做得很好。

You don't think well of course I did.

很可能我会，那是个小球、小篮筐之类的。

Chances are I would it's a tiny ball tiny net or whatever.

你就会想，这太奇怪了。

You just go, that was weird.

这种事再也不会发生了。

That'll never happen again.

而正是这种愚蠢的重复才

And it's like that that repetition of stupidity is what

给了我们我们的猜测。

gives us our guess.

确实如此。

It's so true.

没错，我的意思是，比如《周六夜现场》就是个很好的训练场所，因为现场表演整体上非常棒——当你犯了个小错误，不是那种严重的错误，你并不希望出错，但当出现一个小失误时，你会不会反而更兴奋？

It is, I mean, like, SNL was a really good training ground for that live performance in general is really good because you have a mistake, do you does this happen to you when there's a tiny mistake not a terrible like you don't want something bad, but when there's a tiny mistake do you get a little energized.

是的。

Yeah.

因为你觉得自己得补救回来。

Because you're like, I gotta save it.

是的。

Yeah.

我能做好一个，但做不了两个。

I can do one, can't do two.

是的。

Yeah.

这有点令人兴奋。

And it's a little bit exciting.

是的。

Yeah.

因为两个错误？

Because two mistakes?

不。

No.

但一个错误还挺好的。

But one is like kinda good.

你还记得表演时发生过什么错误吗？比如麦克风突然坏了，或者有人没及时上台，然后你突然经历了一瞬间的纯粹兴奋和那种战栗感？

Do you remember a mistake that happened when you were performing and you just, you know, I don't know, like a mic went out or someone didn't come and meet get the like, and you just had a moment of, like, pure excitement and that, like, tingle of that?

是的。

Yeah.

但这种事情发生得太频繁了，没什么特别值得一提的。

But it happens so often there isn't like a notable one.

我认识一个搞吉他独奏的家伙，是个吉他独奏大师。

There's this guy I know that does guitar solo, this like guitar solo master.

他就是那种我只要在一场演出里能让这种事发生两次，整个演出就直接升华了的人。

He's a dude that like I've toured with just because if I can have this happen twice in a show, it's like takes the show over the top.

所以这个家伙，他从不承认这一点，但他的吉他独奏一开始总会先弹几个常见的乐句，或者只是几个音符，那些都挺有品位的。

So this dude and he will never admit this, but like, he'll start out his guitar solo with like a couple of like maybe stock licks, or just like a couple of notes that are like, those are tasteful.

然后他会犯个错。

And then he'll make a mistake.

接着大家都会站到他这边支持他，我们会想：哦，不，他可能搞砸了。

And you then it rallies everyone to his to his support, like we rage to his side and we go, Oh, no, he's he might not have this.

哦，天啊，然后他看起来有点慌乱，微微摇头，接着弹出下一个乐句，还好，到结尾时他完全爆发了，你才意识到他根本不可能真的出错。

Oh, oh god and then he looks a little frazzled and shakes his head a little bit and he kind of does the next lick and it's okay and by the end of it he's just shredding and you realize that there's no way he could ever make a mistake.

但这个错误却把大家吸引住了，不仅让你听他演奏，更让你想支持他。

But that mistake drawing everyone in, not just to listen to him but to like, you want to support him.

是的。

Yeah.

而他的胜利，也成了你的胜利。

And then his victory becomes your victory.

所以一场演出或一首歌里一个错误能产生这种效果，两个错误就说明他准备不足了。

So one mistake does that in a performance or a song, two mistakes is like she's not prepared.

真的太对了。

It's so true.

你处理错误的方式真的就是这样，是的。

And you're absolutely like the way you take in the mistake like Yeah.

我一直觉得，你在表演时的样子，以及你谈论自己、音乐和艺术的方式，还有你看待这一切商业运作的态度。

I've always felt this about the way you perform and seeing you like the way you talk about yourself and your music and your art and the way you look at like at the business of it all.

本该是件开心的事。

It's supposed to be fun.

如果你放松了，我们也会放松。

And if you're relaxed, we're relaxed.

是的。

Yeah.

如果你玩得开心，我们也会玩得开心。

If you're having a good time, we're having a good time.

对。

Yeah.

就像婚礼上，如果新娘玩得开心，那这场婚礼就一定很有趣，就这么简单。

It's like, if the bride has a good time at the wedding, it's a fun wedding, like period, the end.

但这是一个很难学会的教训，就是试着重新——我的意思是，让人放松真的很难。

But it's a hard lesson to learn, which is try to re- I mean, telling people to relax is really hard.

是的。

Yeah.

你即将上台表演时，怎么放松呢？

How do you relax when you're about to perform?

你是怎么做到的？你只是自然而然地做到了，一直如此吗？

How do you like, how do you just, you just, it just comes natural and always has?

嗯，我以前会

Well, I used

喝一点酒。

to drink a little bit.

当然。

Sure.

如果你喝一点，然后在上台前停止饮酒，那就像是从没喝过酒一样重新开始。

And if you drink a little bit and then you stop drinking a little bit before you go on stage, then it's like starting over from never having drank a little bit.

所以那太糟了。

So that sucked.

是的，别再喝酒了。

Yeah, don't drink anymore.

我是说，我真的受不了。

It's like, can't I can't handle it.

我的意思是，我喝得太快就醉了。

I mean, like it just I just get too drunk too fast.

一点酒量都没有。

Have no tolerance.

喝东西特别快。

Drink a lot of things really fast.

我就像骆驼一样。

Like, I'm like a camel.

对。

Yeah.

现在我明白你的意思了。

Now I know what you mean.

我只要喝一点点，突然就感觉，天啊，我状态全无了。

I could just a little bit and suddenly you're like, oh, I am not on my game.

是的。

Yeah.

我不是鲨鱼。

Like, I'm not a shark.

对。

Right.

然后之后就会陷入恶性循环。

And then it's like the spiral afterwards.

这才是我无法应对的地方。

That's the thing I can't deal with.

然后还要假装这个恶性循环是在几千人面前发生的。

And then like pretend the spiral just happened in front of like, you know, a few thousand people.

哦，对，然后你说的任何话，第二天都得负责。

Oh yeah, and then like whatever you say like you have to like stand by that the next day.

所以这不对。

So that's not right.

我们回到歌曲之间的那几分钟。

We're back to the few minutes before between the song

回到那几分钟。

back to the few minutes.

是的，就是歌曲之间的那几分钟，对吧？那时候你决定以一种讽刺的方式变得特别政治化，或者只是开个玩笑，你知道的，你正处于命运的巅峰。

Yeah, between the song, right, where you decide to get like overtly political in like an ironic way or, or you just you make the joke and, you know, you were in the pick of destiny.

是的，十指交叉。

Yeah, Tenacious D.

是的，我不打算再讲一遍那个故事了，我刚在斯特恩那里讲过。

Yeah, I'm not gonna tell the story again I just told the story on Stern it'll tell.

哦，你已经讲过了，我不想听什么斯特恩。

Oh, already told me, I don't want any Stern.

我不想要任何粗糙的斯特恩

I don't want any sloppy stern

秒钟。

seconds.

不要任何斯特恩的秒钟，

Don't want any stern seconds,

但你是在但

but you are in the But

你得在见到霍华德时讲个好故事，但当你在斯特恩节目上时，你得给斯特恩一个精彩的故事，你得带点实质内容来，我来给你讲个故事，你可以讲出来

you gotta tell when you hi love Howard but when you're on Stern you gotta give Stern a good story like you gotta bring some meat to gonna tell you the story and you can tell it out

如果你

if you

想的话，但我

want to but I

我只是觉得，既然我们正在谈喝酒，然后上台面对观众这件事。

just think that you appreciate it just because we are on the subject of drinking, and then getting on stage in front of people.

所以，我以为每个人都看过《命运之选》。

So, I thought everyone had seen The Pick of Destiny.

我的意思不是想冒犯谁，但并不是每个人都看过《命运之选》。

And I mean, I don't mean to be offensive but like not everyone has seen The

《命运之选》。

Pick of Destiny.

那些应该了解杰克·布莱克和凯尔·盖斯组成的十次方乐队的人。

And people who should be about just as Jack Black and Kyle Gas' Tenacious D.

是的。

Yes.

所以杰克·布莱克加入了一个叫十次方乐队的团体，他们拍了一部叫《命运之选》的电影，这是一部真正的cult经典。

So Jack Black is in a band called Tenacious D which made a movie called The Pick of Destiny which is a real cult classic.

经典。

Classic.

这是一部

It's a

cult经典，但这是我最喜欢的电影，我背下了每一句台词，而这些家伙就像我曾经所在的乐队那样。

cult classic, but it was my favorite movie and I had memorized every line and these guys because this was like how I, you know, I was in bands like this.

他们必须赢得乐队争霸赛，因为这样才能付房租，但如果没有恶魔的角或脚趾甲之类的命运之选，他们是不可能赢的。

They have to win the battle of bands because they have to pay their rent, but they're never going to win the battle of bands without the Pick of Destiny, which is like a piece of the devil's horn or toenail or

什么东西。

something.

当然。

Sure.

所以，为了赢得乐队争霸赛，他们得学会几个招式。

So and it's like but to win the battle of bands, they've got they've got to learn a couple of moves.

其中一个招式叫摇滚滑步。

And one of the moves is called the rock slide.

另一个招式叫鸡胸俯卧撑。

The other move is called the cock push up.

是的。

Yeah.

他们以前会做鸡巴俯卧撑

They used to do cock

俯卧撑。

push ups.

他们以前做鸡巴俯卧撑。

They used do cock push ups.

所以，我的观众没看过命运之选，但我相信每个人都看过命运之选

And so, my audience didn't see the Pick of Destiny but I believed everyone had seen the Pick of

之选。

Destiny.

对。

Right.

所以我在拉斯维加斯，正在舞台上，喝了几杯后，我决定从鼓台跳下去。

So I was in Las Vegas I was on stage and I was having a few drinks and I decided to jump off the drum riser.

我的膝盖撑不住了，直接软了。

My knees just didn't hold, they just buckled.

于是我跪了下来，故意装出一副样子，来了个跪地摇滚的动作，歌曲结束后我站了起来。

And so I kind of like went on my knees and I kind of styled it and I did like the rock back on the knees thing and after the song I stood up.

这就是为什么我害怕歌曲中的那十五秒，我对观众说：好了，现在你们看到我的摇滚滑行了。

This is the this is why I'm afraid of the fifteen seconds during the songs and I said to the audience, said, well now that you've seen my rock slide.

现在该轮到我的家伙了。

Now it's time for my cock.

这个

This

这是个不错的，这是个

is a good this is a

这个故事适合讲给斯特恩听。

good story for Stern.

而且那

And that

没引起反响。

didn't go over.

没人知道为什么布兰迪会告诉几千名中年女同性恋者，她打算开一个‘鸡巴足疗店’。

Nobody knew nobody knew why Brandi was telling, you know, a couple thousand middle aged lesbians that she was gonna do a cock foot shop.

你有她的联系方式吗？

Do you have her

所以我再也不喝酒了。

I So I don't drink anymore.

你戒酒了吗？

Are you done drinking?

你戒酒了吗？

Are you done drinking?

我不但戒酒了，也不工作了。

I'm I'm done drinking and working.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这就是为什么我觉得随着年龄增长，事情会变得越来越难。

That's why I just think it gets harder as we get older.

是的，我觉得一切都变得更难了，但也变得更好了。

Yeah, I just think it's like everything is harder and everything is better.

是的，比如变老的好处是什么。

Yeah, like it's bet what's good about getting older.

我的意思是，我随身总是带着偏头痛的药。

Well, I mean, travel with this migraine medication in my pocket at all times.

不是赞助商，

Not a sponsor,

不是赞助商。

not a sponsor.

不，这是无赞助的，但就是在那里。

No it's unsponsored but that's just there.

是的。

Yeah.

好吧，我其实不能喝酒。

Okay, so I can't really drink.

那我们来谈谈这些包装吧。

So can we talk about these packages.

你怎么

How do you

进入这个状态，你得用牙齿撕开，因为你太急了。

get into it, you rip it apart with your teeth because you're desperate.

那是因为你有自己的牙齿。

Well that's because you have your own teeth.

不是每个人都有自己的牙齿。

Not everybody has their own teeth.

所以你刚才问的是，变老的感觉怎么样？

So what were you asking how is it to get older.

好吧，总之，变老这件事。

Okay, so anyway yes getting older.

每过一年，我都比上一年更享受变老的感觉。

Every year I get older I love being older more than I loved being younger.

是的，我也是。

Yeah, me too.

我就是特别喜欢。

I just love it.

我喜欢一切。

I like everything.

我喜欢自己的敬畏之心日益增长，幽默感也发生了变化。

I like the way that my reverence has grown and sense of humor has changed.

在更多情况下，我选择了自己。

I choose myself in more situations.

我喜欢我脸的样子。

I like the way my face looks.

就是，你知道的，

Like, you know,

我喜欢。

I like it.

是的，我也喜欢。

Yeah, me too.

我的意思是，我觉得没人充分谈论这个，他们根本不说，比如50岁，我54岁了，50年代是我最喜爱的十年。

I mean, I don't think enough people talk about it they just don't talk about like, I mean 50s have I'm 54, the 50s have been my favorite decade.

绝对是的。

Oh, by far.

那就是

That's what

我觉得将会发生的事。

I think is gonna happen.

当然了

Oh, by far

我的五十岁生日非常开心。

my fiftieth birthday was so fun.

我的意思是，我知道随着年龄增长会有很多挑战，尤其是对那些觉得自己还没达到理想状态的人——比如没和对的人在一起，或者经历了很多挫折，这些确实会让人感到痛苦和压力。但我觉得足够多的人没有谈论过，其实生活会变得越来越好，越来越好。

I mean, I know there's a lot that comes along with it and especially for people who don't feel like they're in the place they should be, like that feels really hurt can be really hurtful and stressful, or they're not with the person they should be with or they've had a lot that they've gone through, but I don't think enough people talk about how it just can get better and better and better.

我们太痴迷于年轻了，你知道的，而且确实，我们真的，真的……

We're just so we're so obsessed with youth, you know, and, yeah, we really, we really,

我也很喜欢年轻人。

and I love young people too.

是的，我也喜欢。

Yeah, me too.

我喜欢年轻人，我总是说，享受这段时光吧，好好感受，你知道的，我也有孩子。

I love I love young people and I'm always like, enjoy that space, be there, you know, and I have kids too.

我总是想，天啊，就做个孩子吧，做个孩子吧。

And I'm like, my god, be a kid, be a kid.

是的

Yeah.

但若我坦诚相告，那并不是我人生中最喜欢的阶段。

But if I'm really honest, that wasn't my favorite part of my life.

是的

Yeah.

即使明天我被公交车撞了，生命在眼前闪回，我想我大概会看到过去五年。

Even if, you know, I walked in front of a bus tomorrow, and I got to like my life flash before my eyes, I think I'd probably see the last five years.

是的

Yes.

对

Yeah.

太棒了

Very cool.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，有很多年轻人喜欢你、能与你产生共鸣、觉得被你理解，并且热爱你的音乐。

I mean, there's a lot of young people that love you and relate to you and feel seen by you and love your music.

而且你做了一件我认为对很多人来说很重要的事，就是把老一辈的艺术家带回到当下的世界中。

And you do this thing, I think for a lot of people where you bridge older artists and bring them back into this like present world.

而且，你知道的，你与无数杰出的艺术家合作过。

And there's, you know, a million people that you work with incredible artists.

首先，和你的偶像如埃尔顿·约翰、乔尼·米切尔合作是什么感觉？当你见到他们时，你是如何应对那种心情的？就像印第戈女孩那样，你曾经是个年轻粉丝，在门外等待，而现在你们却站在一起。

First of all, what is it like to work with your heroes like Elton John, Joni Mitchell, like when you meet them, how do you manage that feeling of Indigo Girls, where you are like I was a young Brandi was a fan waiting outside, and now we're together.

而我现在，你知道的，我某种程度上在帮你们一起制作这个作品，这种感觉究竟是怎样的？

And I'm going to, you know, I'm kind of helping produce this thing we're doing together, how do you what's that feeling like?

你是怎么做到的？

How do you do it?

这是个非常好的问题，这是一种神圣的感觉。

That's a really good question and it's a sacred feeling.

这是一种非常神圣的感觉，因为随着我年纪渐长，越来越多的年轻人会来找我，对我说一些我曾经对我偶像说过的话，这时我就成了那种粉丝——那种会等在你门口、像等公交车一样的粉丝。

It's a really sacred feeling because, like, and I guess also the older I get, and the more young people do come up to me and say things to me that I remember saying to my heroes, it like I'm that kind of fan, like I'm a wait outside your door bus kind of fan.

所以，我听到这些话时，就会想起我曾经也说过这些话。

So like, I'm hearing these words, and I'm like, I remember those words.

我只是在思考，人生竟如此圆满，我们所有人又是多么相似。

And I'm just remembering like, I'm just understanding how full circle life can be and how human we all are.

实际上，我不太理解，如果没有我自己的背景，‘粉丝’这个词意味着什么，因为那些我真正崇拜的人，我都必须和他们成为朋友。

I actually don't see, I don't even understand like what a fan is without the context of me, you know, because everybody that like I, I really idolize, like I've got to be friends with.

所以，这部分情感永远不会消失。

And so there is a part of that, that never goes away.

它会像似曾相识的感觉一样悄然袭来，你正经历着一场再普通不过的互动。

And it sort of like sneaks up on you like deja vu or something, you'll be in an interaction that is feeling totally normal.

然后突然间，有一件事会划过整个空间。

And then suddenly one thing will flash through the room.

你会惊呼：天哪，这可是埃尔顿·约翰！

And you'll be like, Oh my god, this is Eldon shot.

是的。

Yeah.

这些时刻让我非常珍惜他。

And it's like those moments are, I really cherish him.

我只是抓住它们，紧紧握住，对自己说，是的，是的，你做到了。

I just grab them and hold on to them and I go, yeah, yeah, you did it.

你做到了。

You did it.

是的。

Yeah.

这也表明你仍然与自己内心的这部分保持着联系。

And it's and it's also an indication that you're still in touch with that part of yourself.

你不会觉得自己高高在上、超然物外或已经超越了它。

Like you don't feel like above it or beyond it or over it.

对。

Yeah.

这真的很棒。

It's really cool.

是的。

Yeah.

保持与自我这一部分的联系，让我在履行对他人责任时保持诚实，比如那些喜欢我的音乐、买演唱会门票、请保姆、打扮一番、外出度过夜晚的人。

And staying in touch with that part of myself keeps me honest in my responsibility within my job to other people that like my music and, you know, buy that concert ticket and get the babysitter and, you know, get dressed up and go out for the night.

我会认真对待每一场演出，因为我真的理解。

Like, I'm really going to show up for that gig because I just understand.

埃尔顿是什么样的人？

What's Elton like?

我从未见过他，但他似乎非常了不起。

I've never met him and he seems incredible.

而且他总是发现新的艺术家。

Like also he's always discovering new artists.

是的，总是如此。

Yeah, always.

他一直非常热衷于新音乐。

Like he's really into new music all the time.

你从来没见过他？

You've never met him?

没有。

No.

另一点是，大多数人其实都见过埃尔顿，因为他非常社交，你肯定会遇到他。

That's the other thing is most people have met Elton, because he's so social and he's just so like you will meet him.

就像一个真正的外向者。

Like a real extrovert.

我超级喜欢他，典型的外向者。

Absolutely love him, total extrovert.

但就是那种达到了你所能想象的最标志性地位，却完全没有一丝自恋的人。

But like one of those people that's reached maybe the most iconic status that you can possibly reach with absolutely no trace of narcissism.

天啊，我知道，他很有竞争力，也很投入。

Woah, I know, like he's competitive, and he's intense.

而且他知道自己很出名

And he knows he's out

我是个有竞争力的人。

of I'm a competitive person.

天啊，我也是。

God, know so do I.

我的意思是，我有

I mean, I have a

很多笑声。

lot laughter.

你知道，你总想赢一点。

You know, you're want to try to win a little bit.

但他会问你问题。

But he will ask you questions.

是的。

Yeah.

而且会认真听你的回答，真正对你感到好奇，这就是为什么他能发现这么多年轻艺术家。

And listen to your answers and be just genuinely intrigued like by you, you know, that's why he's discovering all these younger artists.

是的，他是个非凡的人。

Yeah, he's just exceptional man.

对。

Yeah.

千年一遇的人。

Once in a once in a millennium man.

你和多莉合作过，她也是这样的人。

And you and you've worked with Dolly who just That's another one.

和多莉一起唱歌是什么感觉？

What is it like to sing next to Dolly?

那种感觉是怎样的？

What does that feel like?

多莉·帕顿。

Dolly Parton.

她无可挑剔。

She's impeccable.

她从不出错。

She does not miss.

所以标准高得离谱，多莉就是权威。

So the standard is like so high like Dolly is the boss.

当我为多莉工作时，我会准时到场，扣子一直扣到最上面，而且从不出错。

And so when I show up for Dolly like I show up on time buttoned all the way up to the top button, and I don't miss.

我知道自己该做的一切。

I know everything I'm supposed to do.

她不会要求你达到这个标准，但标准就在那里。

And she doesn't like ask you to meet that standard, but it's there.

多莉就是高标准的代名词。

Like, Dolly is high expectations.

是的，她简直太棒了。

And yeah, she's just amazing.

太棒了。

Amazing.

你最近在Joni身边做的工作真是太酷了。

And the work you've done recently with Joni by Joni's side is just so cool.

感觉你同时既是专业人士又是粉丝。

It felt like you were you were the professional and the fan at the same time.

这真是

That's such

一句很暖心的话。

a nice thing to say.

哦，这么说真是太好了，看待问题的角度也很棒。

Oh, that's such a nice thing to say, and nice way to look at it.

我感觉自己像个学生。

I felt like a student.

很多时候都是这样，因为那音乐一开始对我来说极其复杂且难以理解。

A lot of the time, because that music was so wildly complex and inaccessible to me at first.

尽管我一直很喜欢，但我从未真正深入其中。

Even though I was a fan of it, I had never had to get inside of it.

学习乐句，了解调性变化和旋律。

And learn phrasing and learn, you know, the key changes, the melody.

旋律就像过山车，你根本无法预判那些曲折变化。

It's a roller coaster, the melodies are roller coasters, you don't have those twists and turns ready.

再结合乔尼从不喜欢重复做同一件事这一点。

And then take that and combine it with the fact that Joni doesn't ever like to do the same thing twice.

如果她觉得你猜到了她要做什么，她就偏偏不这么做。

And then if she thinks if she thinks you know what she's going to do, she's not going to do it.

所以，能坐在乔尼旁边近距离观察她，看着她的康复逐步进展，她变得越来越这样，真是非常奇妙的经历。

So it's a really wild thing getting to sit shotgun next to Joni and as her recovery has progressed, and she's gotten more and more and more that way.

每天当她深入自己的音乐时，我都能更清晰地看到乔尼·米切尔一贯以来的精神本质。

And I see the spirit of who Joni Mitchell has always been more and more every day that she delves into her own music.

和那些第一次发现她的年轻青少年交谈，一定也很棒吧。

And it must be so cool to talk to like young teenagers who are discovering her for the first time.

嗯，他们成群结队地来找我。

Well, they come up to me en masse.

这可能是我最常谈论的话题，我非常喜欢。

That's probably the thing I end up talking about the most and I love it.

我永远不厌倦谈论琼尼和她的音乐旅程。

Like I never grow tired of talking about Joni and the Joni journey.

但无论是年轻人还是年长者，大家都会来找我，说：‘你看，我把琼尼·米切尔的歌词纹在了手臂上，就像格蕾西·艾布拉姆斯那样。'

But like, younger people, and much older people alike, that is the thing everyone comes to me and says, Okay, look, I've got the Joni Mitchell's lyrics tattooed on my arm, you know, like, really like Gracie Abrams.

我就是这么认识格蕾西的，你知道的。

Like, that's how I met Gracie, you know.

我还在想那位可爱的表演者，

I'm also thinking about that sweet performer,

芬内西，哦，是的，芬内西。

Fennessey Oh, yeah, Fennessey Oh.

她曾多次和你一起演唱那首玩笑般的歌，看的时候，真是首了不起的歌。

Who sang the joke with you many times, which is watching it, what an incredible song.

谢谢。

Thank you.

而且，你知道，和传奇人物以及刚刚踏上旅程的年轻人一起唱歌并不容易。

And just the way, you know, it's not easy to sing with, like, legends and young people, like, who are kind of just starting out on their journey.

就像你和克里斯·法利一起表演那样。

Like, the way you performed with I'm like, Chris Farley.

你还记得吗？

I'm like, remember that?

这就是我的问题。

That's my question.

你还记得什么时候

Do you remember when

你表演过吗？

you did it?

我记得。

I do.

我记得贝尼西奥。

I remember Benicio.

但是，那场表演真的太美好了

But, like, that was such a beautiful

那个瞬间也意义非凡，而且它真的带来了改变

moment too, and it really changed.

一首歌会因为和你同台演唱的人不同而产生怎样的变化呢？

How does a song change depending on who you perform it with?

那个，嗯，首先

That the, well, first

首先，和本尼西奥一起那段经历里全是纯粹的冲动，我那时候做事真的太莽撞了。

of all, the innocence of that with Benicio, I was so impulsive back then.

我会回我老家镇上读过的公立学校，一年里总会去个几次，为他们办点活动。

I would just the school I went to the public school I went to in the town I live in, a couple times a year, I'll do something for them.

就是去全校集会上讲个话之类的，说实话，能在当年的母校成为大家眼里的厉害人物，这种感觉真的很棒。

I'll just go speak in assembly or whatever, know, actually feels good to like, be cool in that school.

如今我已经是成年人了。

Now that I'm an adult.

因为你们当时还是孩子。

Because you were not as kids.

是的。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

没人是。

No one was.

所以，你知道的，我去那里时，贝尼西奥走了过来，唱了那首歌，简直太震撼了。

So I, you know, I went there and, like, Benicio came up and he sang that song and it was just it was stunning.

而且我

And I

我当时想，我下周就要上电视了。

was like, I'm gonna be on TV next week.

和我一起来吧

Come with me