达薇恩·乔伊·兰道夫

我觉得你特别有才华。

I think you're so talented.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你天生就这么有天赋，演戏特别棒，还特别幽默。

And so naturally talented and so, such a good actress and so funny.

还有唱歌也这么好，你什么都做得这么出色。

Those and, and such a good singer, like you do so many things so well.

谢谢。

Thanks.

你的职业生涯就是不断尝试，这个我也想试试，那个我也想试试。

And your career is a lot of like, I'm gonna try that a lot of

可能是吧。

like, maybe

我该去试试这个，等等，那边是什么？也许我也该试试。

I should try that and hold on what's over here maybe I should try that.

还在继续。

Still.

还在做饭。

Still cooking.

是的。

Yeah.

为什么不呢。

Why not.

没错。

Right.

对。

Yeah.

很多人认识你是演员，但可能不太了解你最初是靠唱歌踏入艺术圈的。

So, a lot of people know you as an actress but I don't think as many people know that you first kind of entered the world of arts as a singer.

是的。

Yeah,

那就是我踏入艺术世界的起点。

And that was where that was kind of like the door you walked

对。

Yep.

我。

I

我经常问那些嗓音很棒的人一个问题。

like to, I like to ask this to people who are have beautiful voices.

你是什么时候发现自己嗓音不错的？

When did you when did you know you had a good voice?

你第一次意识到自己声音好听，或者别人告诉你嗓音很棒，是什么时候？

When did you hear it for the first time or someone say you have a good voice?

第一次是什么时候？

When was the Yeah, first time

我那时候根本没在意。

I I heard didn't know.

我以为所有人说话都是这样的。

I thought that's what people sounded like.

对。

Right.

直到后来我开始接受训练，才意识到原来很多人根本不会唱歌。

And it wasn't until like I started getting training that I was like, oh, there's people out here who can't sing.

你说的‘开始接受训练’，具体是指什么？

When you say started getting trained, what does that mean?

是上声乐课吗？

Taking voice So

是的，上声乐课。

yeah, taking voice lessons.

小时候我觉得家人朋友夸我，可能只是客气，毕竟我是双子座，而且是金牛座的双子座，特别专注，总想把所有可能性都试一遍。

So when I was younger, was like, right, like family and friends and I thought they're just being nice or whatever because I, I'm a Gemini, like I'm a Taurus Gemini, so like I'm a very focused Gemini that wants all the options.

所以从小到大，从来没人说‘你是个歌手’，但我可是课后活动的明星，什么都参加。

So like, even as a kid, it wasn't like, and you are a singer, like I was the poster child for after school programs, I did it all.

是的。

Yeah.

我很感激父母从小就这么支持我，他们从没当过那种逼孩子上台的父母，总是说：你想干嘛就干嘛，开心最重要。

And I liked, I so appreciate that, that my parents instilled that and was never like stage parents or like, they were like, whatever you want, lock in, have fun.

但直到现在，我觉得这正是演戏对我有吸引力的原因。

But even now, I think that's why acting is fun to me.

我就像在不断尝试扮演不同的角色。

I'm like trying on these different people.

对。

Yeah.

而且不会在一个角色上待太久。

And not staying one with one for too, too long.

但这也正是我生活的写照。

But that's also my life.

总有人跟我说：真的，你完全可以的。

It's people telling me like, no, no, for real though, you really could.

我一直觉得自己还行。

Like I thought I've always felt like I'm decent.

但直到我特别敬佩的人告诉我：你身上真有东西，别放弃，继续往前走，我才明白。

And it's taken people who I've really admired to be like, no, there's something there and keep going or keep pushing

我懂你的意思，有时候确实需要导师之类的人点醒你：你拥有的东西，跟别人不一样。

I in that hear what you mean like it takes sometimes like a mentor or someone to say you what you have isn't the same as what everyone else has.

坚持下去，就这样做，这种鼓励真的能——

Keep working on it, keep doing it like that encouragement can really-

我能问你个问题吗？

But can I ask you a question?

当然。

Yeah.

我看你工作的时候，感觉你做起来特别自然流畅。

To me when I watch you work, to me it seems as if there is a natural ease in what you do.

你觉得是这样吗？

Would you say that that's true?

谢谢你这么说。

Thank you for saying that.

我希望自己看起来是那种不拼命用力、很自然的状态。

I think I would hope that it fit, it feels some version of like that I'm not trying or striving too hard.

但确实得有导演、老师这些人跟我说：你挺有意思的，别停，就坚持下去。

But it did take definitely, like, directors and teachers and stuff to be like, no, you're funny keep going like just the keep going part.

坚持下去。

The keep going part.

是的。

Yeah.

你也知道，其实我认识好多比我还搞笑、演技还棒、唱歌还好的人。

And and and as you know, too, a lot of it is like we know I know people way funnier than me and way better actors than me, better singers.

但很多时候，最难的就是不放弃。

But half of the battle is just not giving up.

对。

Yep.

而且要准备好，当机会来的时候能抓住它。

And being ready when it presents itself.

不找份稳定的工作，不买医疗保险，很长一段时间都只是想着：我就想拼一把。

Not getting a regular job, not having health insurance, not like just for a long time being like, I'm just gonna try to make it.

是啊，这真不容易。

Yeah, it's not easy.

对，一点都不容易。

No, no, no, no, no.

确实不容易。

It's not easy

一点都不是容易的事。

at all.

所以你一开始是在费城。

So you start you're in Philly.

你老家是哪儿的？

Where are you from?

我来自波士顿。

I'm from Boston.

我感受到了东北部的氛围。好，百分之百同意。

I felt the Northeast 1 Okay, 100

我得跟你聊聊你的波士顿口音。

and I gotta talk to you about your Boston accent.

做艺术家真酷。

Cool to be an artist.

不过像我小时候那样，大家好像觉得，哦，对，那些其他事你也得做。

But like me growing up, it was kind of like, Oh, yeah, you do that other stuff too.

你是说

Do you

你明白我的意思吧？

know what I mean?

感觉就是先好好玩，然后再去找份正经工作。

It was kind of like have fun and then find your real job.

是的。

Yes.

那地方对高中生来说特别重要，尤其是这个年龄段的孩子。

And so that was a place that I think is so integral for high school age kids, particularly.

你四岁就能去，但真正开始摸索自己是不是艺术人才，还是得等到高中阶段。

I mean, you can literally go at four years old, but for high school kids to go to to like really start to dip their toe into finding themselves as an artist.

它在我生命里是个特别美好的地方。

And it's just so such a beautiful place in my life.

那时候我经历了一个特别强烈的时刻，全是古典音乐，我心里就想：天啊，R&B去哪儿了？

And so that was a moment, a very strong moment because it was classical and I was like, Oh no, where's the R and B?

那才是我该唱的。

That's for me.

结果全是古典曲目。

And so it was all classical.

天哪，你当时唱古典音乐？你能看乐谱吗？

Woah, so you were singing classical and did you do you can you read music?

现在我可以了。

Now I can.

那时候我听力特别好。

At the time, I just had like a really good ear.

你是受过古典训练的歌剧歌手。

You're a classically trained opera singer.

就是因为这个原因。

And it was because of that.

正是这件事开启了这一切，老师们都说：‘你确实有天赋，别放弃。’

It's that's what started it and it was teachers being like no, you actually have Yeah, natural gift keep going.

你之前看过歌剧吗？

Had you seen any opera before that?

没有！

No!

我知道。

I know.

我觉得歌剧就像是那种你只会在校外活动时才看到的东西。

I feel like opera is this thing that you only see like what is like a it just it's a field trip.

就是一次校外活动。

It's a field trip.

我特别喜欢我们小时候那种情况，虽然你比我小，但在我成长的时候，各种音乐类型有时候会交叉，通过它们我们了解了不同的人。我今天准备的时候就在想，我最早是什么时候接触到歌剧的呢？

It's so my I love how we when we grew up like well you're younger than me but when I was growing up like the genres kind of crossed at times and it's where you learned about people and I remember I was thinking when I was doing preparing for today.

我觉得我是从《芝麻街》里知道歌剧的。

I was like when did I first know about opera and I think it was from The Muppets.

因为贝弗莉·西尔斯，那位特别有名的歌剧歌手，就在《芝麻街》里唱过歌。

Because Beverly Sills who was a very famous opera singer was sang opera And on The

我也超爱《芝麻街》，所以你一说这个，我整个人都惊了。

I'm also obsessed with the Muppets so that's why my whole face just dropped when you said that.

你很喜欢《芝麻街》？

You love the Muppets?

真的，我小时候特别想上那个节目。

Babes, I wanted to be on that show so bad.

他们说，今年不演人类角色了。

And they were like, we're not doing humans this year.

我说，一个人都不要。

I said, No humans.

这话什么意思？

What do you mean?

他们问，你是说三个都不行吗？

They're like, do you mean like three humans?

一个人都不要。

No humans.

但那根本就是他们自己。

But it's really them.

我当时挺不高兴的。

I was upset.

你最喜欢的木偶是谁？

Who's your favorite Muppet?

小猪佩奇。

Piggy.

你是小猪佩奇吗？

Are you Piggy,

她可是

know she's

最棒的。

the best.

她就是那位女士，真的就是那位女士。

She that lady literally, lady.

那位女士，她欠我一大笔钱。

That lady, that lady owes me a lot of money.

我今天能成为这样的人，全靠她。

Am who I am today because of her.

哦，没错。

Oh, yes.

从小我就被灌输一种观念：别对男人低头，做自己，活出精彩，绝不改变。我当时就一直点头，对，对，对，对。

As a to imagine, as a young age, that being like instilled in you, like you don't take shit from men, you do your thing, be fabulous, you don't change, so you I was like, yep, yep, yep, yep.

我 literally 让我爸妈给我买了一辆三轮车。

I literally made my parents buy me a tricycle.

你知道她那个小品吧，就是她和一群机车手在一起的那个。

So you know she has that skit where she's like with the motorcycle pack.

她就说‘绕开点’，我以前老这么干。

And she's like, get around, get I used to do it all the time.

我还逼我妈给我买了一件皮夹克。

And I just made my mom give me a leather jacket.

那时候这事儿可流行了。

Girl, it was a thing.

她就是我心中的偶像。

That's my girl.

听说那玩意儿要复刻，我立马说：求求了。

When they told me that thing was coming back, I said please.

他们说，我另外一次看歌剧是在《波西米亚狂想曲》里皇后乐队的表演。

And they said, The other place that I saw opera was Queen in Bohemian Rhapsody.

没错。

Sure.

对啊。

Yeah.

我当时就想，哦，原来是这样。

Like I was like, oh, it's

其实我觉得，这对很多人来说就像一扇门，带他们走进了歌剧。

like, actually think that's a bridge like a gateway for a lot of people.

是啊，很多人第一反应都是：他在唱什么？

Yeah, think a lot of people were like, what is he singing?

他怎么唱出这种声音？

How is he singing that way?

哦，原来歌剧就是这样的。

Was like, oh, that's what opera sounds like.

那你是什么时候第一次看歌剧的？

So you when did you see your first opera?

我上表演艺术学校的时候，一进去就被文化狠狠冲击了一把，当时我就……

A meet like a meet once I went to the performing art school, it was like, they completely like slapped me with the culture and I was

那你第一感觉怎么样？

like, And what was your first feeling about it?

你到底喜欢它哪一点？是什么让你想继续走下去？

Like what did you like about it having, like what made you want to keep pursuing it?

我发现自己声音的力量，那时候我就想，哇，原来如此。而且我得说实话。

The power in my voice that I was like, oh, there's and also I'm gonna be really honest.

他们真的让我相信，这是一份特别棒的职业。

They really sold me on the idea that it was a really good life.

你会住在欧洲，男人们都会为你着迷。

Like, you're gonna live in Europe and men are gonna drool over you.

你还能穿上漂亮的服装，而且……

And you get to wear beautiful And

脚边摆满玫瑰。

roses at your feet.

整天吃意大利面。

And eat pasta all day.

你确实很努力，但也没那么拼命。

And you work hard, but not that hard.

因为歌剧演员不像那样——你就算到了巅峰状态，也未必能演很多场。一场歌剧可能就演两三场，我觉得这生活方式挺不错的。

Like because opera singers, they don't- how many- like even if you're at top of your game, yeah, you have concerts, but they don't like we can do 17,000,000 shows in They a may do like two, three opera, so I was like this is a nice lifestyle.

可不是百老汇的排练强度。

Not a Broadway schedule.

当然不是。

No ma'am.

歌剧这行是怎么选角色的？你得像运动员一样，挑适合自己的角色吗？

What are you does opera is, do you have to kind of like pick like a like an athlete, do you have to pick your role,

主要是嗓音条件决定的。

like, The voice part kind of dictates it.

那你的嗓音属于哪种类型？

So what is your voice?

什么？

What

我被归类为次女高音，就是他们这么叫的，我也不太确定具体什么意思。

are So I'm considered a baby dramatic soprano, means like, I don't know, that's what they say.

次女高音？

A baby dramatic?

我总是这样，就算年纪大了，还是被叫‘次’女高音，可能吧。简单说，像莱昂泰因·普雷斯，他们肯定不会说她是‘次’女高音，但‘戏剧女高音’的意思是，你既有低音的厚度，又能唱到高音，但不像传统女高音那样轻飘飘、气声很重，像爱莉安娜·格兰德那种，特别柔、特别飘，像天籁一样。

And I'm always like, I always have the baby part even as I get older, I don't know maybe, but it's like basically it's like, so Leon teen press, I don't think they would consider her a baby, but a dramatic soprano basically means you have the low notes, but you can also get up to the high notes, but instead of like traditionally, soprano, the high notes are very like soft and airy, like more like Ariana Grande, like, right, like really breathy and soft and just like heavenly.

而戏剧女高音呢，虽然也能唱到高音，但声音更有分量。

And like a dramatic soprano is like you can get up there, but like with some heft.

次女高音。

Baby dramatic soprano.

你有没有在舞台上演过歌剧？

And did you ever do an opera on stage?

我去过坦普尔大学，奎塔也在那儿。

I went to Temple University for the teacher, Quinta went there.

那时候奎塔·布罗森和我同时在那儿。

We were there at the same time Quinta Bronson and

你们当时是朋友吗？

Did you guys were you friends?

你们认识吗？

Did you know each

我们只是擦肩而过，她主修戏剧，我还是专注音乐。

other passing because she was like so theater and I was still music.

对，那时候两个专业还是分得很开的。

And they were still felt separate.

是啊，那时候确实如此。

Yes, they were very at that time.

现在不一样了，学校已经合并成音乐学院，还设立了音乐剧系。

Now it's like a conservatory and there's a musical theater department.

所以，不管怎样，我去的是天普大学，那时候我们在演《阿依达》。

So, so anyways, I went to Temple and we were doing Aida.

哇哦。

Wow.

我爸妈都是中产阶级的老师，他们不傻，但就像你第一次看莎士比亚，他们根本看不懂在演啥。

And, you know, my middle class parents, teachers, they're not dumb, but it's like if you were to watch Shakespeare for the first time, they don't know what's going on.

我记得那时候我心里就一个念头——我不是想表演，我是想真正把这个角色演活。

And so I remember my brain was just like, I want to be able- it wasn't even acted, I want to be able to portray this character.

我要彻底理解这个角色，这样我家人朋友来看演出的时候，他们也能懂。

And know this character very well, so that it can translate for like my family and friends that come see this.

这件事我记得特别清楚。

I remember that very clearly.

我都想不起来这念头是从哪儿冒出来的。

I don't even know where that came from.

是的。

Yeah.

我记得那时候得过街去戏剧系，他们那边叫传播系，去抄乐谱。

And so I remember you to go across the street to the theater department, what was like communications to copy sheet music.

我正抄着乐谱呢，隔壁房间传来的声音简直像有人在惨叫，结果那是戏剧课在排练。

And I literally was copying sheet music and it sounded like people were dying in the room next door and it was a theater class.

后来我就去找那位老师，跟他说：嘿，我这边在排歌剧，就在马路对面，您能帮帮我吗？

And so I went up to this teacher afterwards and I was like, hey, I'm working on an opera across the street, like, could you help me?

我想把这部作品真正演活了，让观众看了都能震撼到，真的太棒了。

I want to like bring this to life and it'd be Wow, wow.

简而言之，媒体系的人彻底炸了。

Very long story short, the media department got ultra pissed.

他们直接说：不行，不行，你不能这么干。

And they were like, no, no, you can't do that.

你不能跑到那边去。

You can't cross over there.

我说：我才不想过去呢。

And I was like, don't want to cross over.

我不想当演员。

I don't want to be an actor.

但可能因为这种事情发生过太多次，他们特别护着自己的地盘，结果把我给挂了。

But I guess because it had happened so many times, they were very like territorial over it and they flunked me out.

你开什么玩笑？

Ex squeeze me?

对啊。

Yep.

当时我打电话给我妈，哭得稀里哗啦。

And it was my mom that I'm like bawling on the phone.

那会儿是我大三的春天。

This is like my junior spring.

哦，我……

Oh, I'm

我彻底不干了。

out of here.

我马上要去意大利生活了，正打算过上最好的日子，结果我妈妈说：你去马路对面看看。

I'm about to go be in Italy, like living my best And my mom was like, go across the street.

我永远都不会忘记，因为她说话的方式，你知道当孩子特别沮丧时，妈妈们都会那样。

I'll never because she talked so You know how moms are when their child is like devastated.

是的。

Yeah.

她还说，第一步，去马路对面，找教务处谈谈，你得去申请戏剧专业，因为你的学分大部分都能转过去。

And she was like, step one, go across the street, go speak to the administration, you're going to apply to the theater program, because most of your credits can transfer.

而且我觉得你可能还挺有天赋的。

And I actually think you might be good at it.

她就是这么跟我说的，原话就是：

That's literally how she said it was like,

但她

but she

她知道我首先需要的是实际的逻辑——学分，因为我一直在想，天啊，我都快毕业了，现在却得从头开始找新的——对吧？

knew I needed logic first, credit, because I kept thinking, oh my god, like I'm about to graduate, I have to now completely find a new- Right,

你已经深陷其中了。

you're pot committed to this thing.

然后——

And then-

我就说，好吧。

And I was like, okay.

直到现在他们还跟我提起，说我去了行政办公室，当时我说——

Remember they tell me this to this day, that I went to the administration office and I was like,

我非得当演员不可。

I have to be an actor.

他们就说，什么？

And they were like, what?

我就说，我妈妈说的。

And I was like, my

妈妈说的。

mom said it.

我哭了。

I'm crying.

他们说：没错，你就是。

And they were like, you are, you are.

就是这么回事。

Exactly.

然后你就开始迷上莎士比亚了，对吧？

And then you got really into Shakespeare, right?

你演过好多莎士比亚的作品。

You did a lot of Shakespeare.

后来。

Later.

对，后来。

Yeah, later.

我进耶鲁的时候，其实是装出来的。

So when I got into Yale, I faked it.

我演过莎士比亚，但我觉得当时是演给塔尼娅看的，她一看到那个场景，就陷入爱河了。

I did Shakespeare, but I think I did like, to Tanya when she sees bottom and she's like, in love.

桑尼那时候真的得好好琢磨一下，你知道的。

Sonny had to really like, you know?

我没这经历。

I don't.

我当时得真正理解那种感觉——这样更搞笑吗？

I had to really meaning like- Is that more comedic?

通常是不是——

Is it usually-

确实更偏向喜剧一点。

It is kind of more comedic.

你这么说挺有意思的，好像莎士比亚有两种，一种是——

That's really interesting that what you're saying is like there's like, there's Shakespeare and then there's-

对，不是我站在那儿背诵《哈姆雷特》那种，就是干巴巴地念一段独白。

Yeah, like it wasn't me reciting like Hamlet where it was like, okay, you're just standing there and delivering this speech.

当时蒂塔妮娅就像个米歇尔·奥巴马那样的强势女性，干练又靠谱，结果你一看，她居然喝了迷魂汤，彻底陷入爱河，变得天真烂漫、傻乎乎的，就像个中学生一样，心里直嘀咕：天啊，这男生也太帅了吧。

It was like this strong, Titania is like, kind of like a Michelle Obama, like a tough girl that's like, got it all together, who now you see gets to be like, she's drunk the Kool Aid and she's like whimsically like this ingenue in love and just being silly and in love with this like, know, having like a kind of like teenage middle school moment of like, oh my god, this guy is so cute.

对。

Yeah.

所以我的意思是，我演的不是那种夸张做作的哈姆雷特。

So it was that but like I'm saying in the sense of like, I wasn't doing ham.

你愿意多演点莎士比亚吗？

Do you want to do shake, more Shakespeare?

当然愿意。

Absolutely.

我大一结束后就意识到，我根本不懂这个，因为我之前演的是别的古典剧目，对这个完全没概念。

So I went to after my first year, I was like, I don't know this because I was doing another classical art, I don't know this one.

于是我去了牛津的英国戏剧艺术学院，简直不敢相信自己能去那儿。

And so, I went to the British Academy of Dramatic Arts at Oxford, which I couldn't believe it.

我们当时真的是一起吃午饭，

We literally ate lunch,

就是哈利·波特平时吃午饭的地方。

where Harry Potter ate lunch.

我记得那时候

Like I remember

走进去的时候简直不敢相信，我居然真的来了。

walking in there being like, oh my god, I made it.

对，那感觉太棒了，我第一次真正体会到莎士比亚的魅力。

Yeah, and so I was it was just so cool because I learned Shakespeare like, Wow.

那些真正演绎莎士比亚的人，他们对语言的掌控力让我特别着迷。

By the people who do But I love that sense of command that they have over language.

你训练得真到位。

I love how much you have trained.

谢谢。

Thank you.

你确实对这行了如指掌。

Like you are, you really know your stuff.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我真的很感激。

I really appreciate that.

我猜也是，这正说明了你的观点——学习本该是一段充满乐趣的旅程。

I was I bet and it gives to your point like it's supposed to be a journey like fun.

当你一次次尝试、失败，然后慢慢变得更强、更好时，那种感觉特别棒。

And when you get to try and fail over and over again, and then you get stronger and better.

这真是最棒的感觉。

It is the best feeling.

对我来说，这就像在框架中获得自由。

To me, it's kind of like, freedom within form.

只要我知道边界在哪里，我就会去挑战那些边界。

Like, as long as I know the guardrails are up, I'm going to bang up against those guardrails.

但你说得对，要想真正放松、全情投入，哪怕是演喜剧，我也得清楚规则是什么。

But like, you're right, in order for me to really be loose and give all of myself, even with comedy, like, I just need to know the parameters.

是的

Yeah.

然后我就放开去演了，这其实说明训练就像那些边界一样。

And then I'm just gonna go off and it allows me to, so I guess in a way the training is like the guardrails.

是的

Yeah.

工作的时候我就管不了那么多了，你有没有看过自己拍的东西，反正我不太喜欢看。

And then when I work, I'm like, whatever, like have you ever watched something back of your I don't like to.

我也不太喜欢。

I don't love to.

对口型重录特别让人难受。

Don't like ADR is one of the most traumatic.

对啊。

Oh, yeah.

另外有些人可能不知道什么是对口型重录，就是拍完电影后有时候得回头重新录一段对白。

Also ADR is for people don't know, it's like that moment in the film when you have to kind of go back sometimes and rerecord stuff.

这对我来说还是第一次看到成片。

Which for me is my first time of seeing it ever.

没错，通常你第一次看到的时候，画面还没调色，你就发现：我怎么这么黄。

Yes, it's often your first time seeing it and it hasn't been like color corrected or And so you're just like, I'm orange.

你就会忍不住说：天啊。

You're just like, wow.

我怎么看起来这么奇怪？

Why do I look like that?

我想我看起来像一百岁了。

I guess I'm 100 years old.

就是第一次在没做完的作品里看到自己的脸。

Like, it just it's seeing your face for the first time in a thing that isn't finished.

是啊。

Yeah.

还得重新录对白，真的特别难受。

And you have to record new stuff and it's brutal.

真的太难熬了。

It's brutal.

我以前录完总是哭着给我妈打电话。

I always I used to call my mom crying afterward.

妈妈，我看起来好丑。

Mama looks ugly.

她就说，你过街去冷静一下。

She was like, go across the street.

对。

Yep.

深呼吸一下。

Take a deep breath.

你没事的，你不是那个角色，你只是

You are okay, you are not the character, you

在为角色服务。

serve the character.

你妈妈真的很棒，特别让人安心。

Your mom is really good and calming.

是的，她就是那样的人。

Yeah, she's the one.

你上耶鲁的时候，还有没有其他人是那时候我们认识的？

When you were at Yale, was there anyone else there that we would know at the time?

我大二那会儿，露皮塔是大一新生。

Who When else was I was there, when I was a second year, Lupita was a first year.

露皮塔之后是温斯顿·杜克，再之后是——我有点记混了，因为那时候我已经离开了，但接着是亚亚，再后来是妈妈杜，简直太惊人了。

Then after Lupita was Winston Duke, then after that was- I could be mixing this up because I was now gone, but was then Yaya, Then after that was Mama Doo, like it just was Wow.

对。

Yeah.

真厉害。

Wow.

这太震撼了。

That's intense.

这真够激烈的。

That's intense.

然后你一下子就从那过渡到谈论训练如何经受考验。

And then you go, and you go from that to talk about training being put to the test.

你得在西区开演，却只有大约一周的排练时间。

You have to open ghosts on in the West End with about a week of rehearsal.

确实说不通。

Yeah, which made no sense.

我毕业之后找了经纪人，你知道的，总得先找份糊口的工作。

So, I was, when I graduated I got an agent, and like, you know, I gotta have a survival job.

是啊。

Yeah.

我在纽约到处投简历，可就算我有耶鲁的戏剧学位，人家还是觉得我资历太高。

So I applied everywhere in New York City and that little Yale degree, even though it's in theater, people were like, you're overqualified.

但我当时就想，

But I was like,

你知道的比导演还多，这让他很不爽。

it's You know more than the director and that upsets him.

是啊，所以我一份工作都找不到。

Yeah, and so I couldn't get any job.

于是我就想，好吧，那我去当保姆吧。

And so I was like, Okay, I'm going to nanny.

于是我给一个特别棒的家庭当保姆，这事儿真不错，因为我穷，就充分利用了这个系统。

So I nanny for this amazing family and it was amazing because I worked the system because I was broke.

我对他们说：作为艺术策展人，你们的孩子得去五星级酒店，亲身体验一下那种感觉。

And I said, listen, as a curator of arts, your children need to go to five star hotels, and experience what that is like.

甜点，还有

Desserts and

高档场所，得教他们怎么在五星级酒店正经吃饭。他们听了就说：行吧。

really nice places, and we need to teach them how to eat at a five star literally and they were like, okay.

你想想看，两个白人小男孩，还有我，坐在餐桌旁，他们还说：先生。

And literally, can you imagine two little white boys and me like at a table and they're like, Mr.

弗雷内？

Freyne?

万一他们的朋友在看呢，我得让这看起来靠谱点。

Just in case their friends are here watching, I got to make this look credible.

这太聪明了。

That's so smart.

真有趣。

So fun.

真聪明。

So smart.

然后你就去——我

And then you go- I

我超爱那份工作。

love that job.

你怎么找到那份工作的？

How do you get the job?

他们就说，哦，这是给替补演员的试镜，替补演员就是随时顶替的那位。

So they were like, oh, this is an audition for the like understudy understudy is swing.

所以他们说，如果你拿到了这个角色，平时根本上不了台。

And so they were like, you'll if you get this, you'll rarely go on.

没什么大不了的。

No big deal.

我进去是因为我年轻，之前从来没参加过任何试镜。

I go in there because I'm young, and I had never auditioned for anything before.

那些人告诉我，你要把整部剧都演一遍。

Those people told me, so you're going to do the entire thing.

他们让我试演了这部音乐剧75%的内容。

They made me audition for 75% of that musical.

天哪。

Wow.

就在现场。

In the room.

我当时手里拿着台词本，结果他们又丢给我一段即兴阅读。

Like I had my sides, and then they were like, here's cold read.

天啊。

Wow.

整整百分之七十五的音乐剧片段。

75% of the musical.

结果你还表现得特别出色。

And you nailed it.

全靠一股肾上腺素撑着。

It was just adrenaline.

对。

Yes.

但是

But

有一件事既是福气也是负担，我当时整个人都处于亢奋状态。

one thing that was a blessing and a curse, I was on a high.

我当时的状态特别好，高音部分唱得特别到位，那天真是放开了唱。

Like my body was I speaking of belting high, baby I belted high that day.

哎呀。

Uh-oh.

然后他们就据此写了这段？

And then they wrote it?

因为这是一部原创音乐剧。

Because it was an original musical.

所以他们就说，哦，她喜欢飙高音？

So they were like, oh, she wants to belt an ass?

别指望在你不感兴趣的事上做得出色。

Never be good at something you don't wanna do.

把自己发挥到极致。

Ace yourself.

一天八场演出，他们基本上都在台上撑着。

Because eight shows a night, and they were basically up there.

我当时就想，不行，得把音量压下来。

I was like, no, we're gonna have to bring it down.

所以我是在八月份去试的镜。

So I did that audition in like, August.

接下来两天我都没收到任何消息。

I didn't hear anything for two days.

我根本没去想这事。

I'm not thinking about it.

全是替补，替补，还是替补。

It's the understudies, understudy, understudy.

后来我团队联系我，说你录用了，我就回了句，哦，行吧。

My team then hits me up and was like, you booked and I'm like, okay, cool.

我当时挺失落的，因为得跟那些孩子们告别了。

And I was bummed because I was like, I gotta tell these kids, I gotta leave them.

我团队还问我，你是克里斯吗？

And my team was like, are you Chris?

就是那种生活方式。

It was the lifestyle.

我正在跟那种生活方式告别。

I was saying goodbye to the lifestyle.

结果他们隔了几天就问我：你为啥一点都不兴奋啊，我的团队？

So they literally, they were like days later, they're like, why are you not more excited, my team?

我就说：因为这事儿吧，也就那样。

And I was like, because you it's just whatever.

要是大家都病倒了，我可能才会上场。

Like, if everyone gets sick, then maybe I'll go on.

他们说：对，我们骗你的。

They were like, yeah, we lied.

你演的是惠普·戈德堡的角色。

You are playing Whoopi Goldberg's part.

我就说：别闹了。

And I was like, come on.

什么？

What?

你们为什么要这么做？

Why would you do this?

然后我吓坏了。

So then I'm terrified.

那是在星期二，就在那之前，我从来没做过这么大规模的工作，也没做过季节性的工作。

And it was literally the, like the Tuesday before And so I had never done a job of that magnitude, but I had never done a like seasonal job.

是的。

Yeah.

我真的很喜欢节假日。

And I really love the holidays.

对。

Yeah.

所以我开始哭了，然后

So I started crying and

我当时就想，那我能有时间陪父母过日子吗？

I was like, but do I get to spend days getting with my parents?

你知道吗，你什么时候才算熬过来了？

And you know, ages are you done?

你挺过来了。

You made it.

你要去西区了。

You're going to West End.

你跟那么多优秀的人合作过。

You've worked with so many great people.

是的。

Yeah.

你经常提起他们，还提到罗宾·威廉姆斯。

And you talk about them a lot, and you talk about Robin Williams.

而且我我

And I I

真不敢相信那是我演的第一部电影。

can't believe that was my first movie.

太厉害了。

That's amazing.

真不敢相信，可惜那是我的第一部电影，却是他最后一部。

I cannot believe that, sadly, that was my first movie and that was his last movie.

简直难以置信。

I cannot believe it.

和他在一起是什么感觉？

Was it like to be with him?

很感恩。

Grateful.

我注意到，那些传奇喜剧演员身上都有种特别的东西。

There's something that I notice in legendary comedians specifically.

罗宾就有这种特质。

Robin had it.

埃迪也有这种特质。

Eddie had it.

我有过这样的经历。

I had that experience.

虽然不一样，但他们有相似的特质。

It's different, but they have a similar trait.

埃迪的影子在史蒂夫·马丁和马丁·肖特身上都能看到。

Eddie shows up in Steve Martin for sure, Martin Short.

有时候人们会拍拍我的肩膀跟我说话，我从来没想到会是这些人主动找我。

And there's this thing when we talk about when people tap me on my shoulder and be like, hey, and I never would think it would be those people.

小时候，我总觉得他们要么特别内向，要么很疏离，或者自尊心太强，根本不会让你觉得被重视。

In my mind growing up, I thought, you know, like, they either really stay to themselves or they're distant or like, their egos won't ever give you the satisfaction.

但罗宾完全不是这样。

And Robin was the complete opposite.

他跟我聊得比谁都多。

And he actually talked to me more than anybody else.

我们就聊了一会儿。

We just talked for a wee.

我坐在那儿，一字不落地听他说的每一句话。

I literally just sat there and listened to everything that that man said to me.

他跟我说话的时候，我心里就在想，这太不可思议了。

And I will, in the moment while he was talking to me, was like, this is crazy.

别人听了都不会相信的。

No one's gonna believe you.

所以你别跟任何人说，也许以后可以当个精彩的故事讲，但当时真的让人难以置信。

So don't even tell anyone like, maybe later you can share a great anecdote, but it was unbelievable.

他一直在向我倾诉。

And he just poured into me.

那都是在拍摄间隙发生的。

And it would just be like in between the takes.

他就一直说啊说啊，没完没了。

He was just like, blah, blah, blah, blah.

然后，你就直接进入那种状态了。

And then, you know, immediately just go into this thing.

但要是说到事业，他是第一个跟我说‘你有这天赋’的人。

But yeah, he would if I would say career wise, he was the first person that was like, you've got.

能遇到这样的人，真是蒙受了祝福。

What an anointing from someone like that.

后来你和埃迪一起拍《多利米特》，情况也一样，埃迪真的特别照顾你。

And then you worked with Eddie on Dolomite and what and same thing, Eddie really He took you under his

真的特别照顾。

really did.

真的特别照顾。

He really did.

还有一件事挺有意思的。

And something that was interesting.

比如说那些差异。

So like differences.

罗宾太有爆发力了，每次有人问起，我脑子里唯一能想到的就是，你知道宾州车站那个滚动字幕吗？

Robin was so explosive, it felt like I when people ask the only thing I can think of is like, you know how in Penn Station, the ticker thing?

是的。

Yeah.

他的思绪太强烈了，即使他不说话，光是站在他旁边，都能感觉到一股强烈的气场，就像喝咖啡时那种嗡嗡的震动感。和艾迪合作时，我学到了一些东西，能在那个阶段、他职业生涯的这个节点上和他共事，真的很特别。

It's like you can't, his thoughts are so loud when he's not talking that even when you stand next to him, like, and I'm just like, I feel like almost like having coffee, like you just feel this buzz being next to him and just was like, and with Eddie, something that I learned, and it was interesting to work with him at that stage of his life and that point of his career.

当他不工作，或者在镜头之间休息的时候，整个人会特别安静、沉稳。

There is a stillness and a quietness when he's not working, or in between scenes.

可一旦开拍，他整个人就立刻活了过来。

And then there's the action and this whole thing comes to life.

对。

Yeah.

第一次当配角时，我就意识到，每个人都有自己的节奏和工作方式，我后来慢慢调整了自己，才明白，原来我不需要。

And it was something that in the first again, supporting actor being like, okay, this is your rhythm and this is how you work that I then like adjusted and then I was like, okay, so I'm not.

你的音乐训练显然派上了用场，因为你捕捉到了我说的那些东西——节奏、呼吸、能量，还有整体的张力。

Well, feels like your musical training comes in there because you're picking exactly what you said rhythm and breath and energy like the dynamics

完全正确。

100.

一整天都是这样。

Of the day.

节奏是最关键的，尤其是拍喜剧，尤其是跟那些传奇人物合作时。你得赶紧学，别问太多问题，多观察，就像跳绳一样，我跳进去又跳出来，你懂吧？

The rhythm is the biggest thing I think especially with comedy, and especially with legends at that, write, you want to learn quickly, not ask any questions and observe and like, feels like jump rope of like, I'm jumping in and I'm jumping out, you know I mean?

学会这种节奏感。

Learning that kind of pacing.

之后，他其实为我做好了进入行业的准备。我们做宣传时，他直接说：‘她得参加所有活动。’

And but it was after that he really kind of prepared me for the industry in that when we did prep, like we had a full blown press tour, and he was like, she's come, whatever I'm going to, she's coming to all of it.

所以，这100%让我提前适应了后续的宣传节奏。

And so like, 100% it prepared me for holdovers.

要不是有这段经历，我真会搞不懂这堆疯狂的流程是咋回事。

I think if I didn't have that, I'll be like, what is this crazy machine of things?

所以，以一种更轻松的方式，我亲身体验了这一切，也看到了什么叫真正的狂热名气。

So in a more chill way, I got to experience it, I got to see what insane fame looks like.

是的

Yeah.

这确实让人害怕

Which is scary to

我

me.

对

Yeah.

这真的很有压力

That's really intense.

我们会做好准备的

We'll get ready for it.

不好意思，但我

Sorry, but I

明白

know.

你提到那些遗留下来的部分，确实。

You mentioned the holdovers, it.

我得跟你说，这部电影。

I just have to say to you that film.

谢谢。

Thanks.

它现在已经成为每年圣诞节必播的影片了，不仅表演精湛，导演亚历山大·佩恩的功力也了不起，保罗·吉亚玛提和多米尼克的表现更是无可挑剔。

It is in, it is now forever in rotation in as a Christmas film, because not only is it beautifully acted and beautifully directed by Alexander Payne and Paul Giamatti and Dominic, they're amazing.

你们三个人的合作简直完美，而且它还捕捉到了那种淡淡的忧伤——就像你说的，你其实喜欢节日，但节日里总有一种说不清的苦涩与甜蜜交织的失落感，每个人都逃不掉。

You're the three of you together are just it's, but it also captures this melancholy, like you say you love the holidays, and it's this holiday salty sweet sour sadness that happens to all of us where

哪怕你家里热热闹闹，别人眼里的圣诞节再圆满，

all of us, even if you have a house full of people or whatever you consider like, happy Christmas,

孤独总会悄悄溜进来，

because like the loneliness finds its way in

年年如此。

every time.

我知道，就算家里挤满了人，你在这部电影里演的那个母亲，也是我最钟爱的电影表演之一。

I know even with a full house, the way you depicted that mother in that movie is one of my favorite cinematic performances.

恭喜你赢得奥斯卡奖，真的太棒了。

Love Congratulations you in that on winning the Academy Awards.

谢谢，亲爱的。

Thanks, babes.

这奖你完全当得起。

And so deserved.

谢谢你。

Thank you.

首先，保罗·吉亚玛提。

And just so first of all, Paul Giamatti.

他太棒了。

Love him.

我一直都很喜欢他。

Always loved him.

是的

Yeah.

一直都很喜欢他

Always loved him.

而且他很多事情都特别拿手

And like similarly, he's so good at so many things.

对，确实如此

Yeah, he is.

他特别擅长演那种总也搞不定状况、不断撞墙的底层小人物

And he's really good at playing like that underdog that can't quite figure it out and just like keeps hitting their head against the wall.

他太厉害了

He's so good.

他主持《周六夜现场》的时候，我正好在那儿，那段经历特别有意思

I had a fun moment when he hosted SNL when I was there.

那时候你得在看台底下飞快地换衣服，你知道的

And you know, you're like down under the bleachers like changing clothes really fast.

有一刻我转过头问他：你开心吗？

And at one point I turned to him and I was like, are you having fun?

他回答说：这简直是一场噩梦。

And he was like, this is a nightmare.

是啊，其实他内心痛苦不堪，快撑不住了，但

Yeah, inside, everything is painful and he's dying It's

却特别好笑。

so funny.

是啊，就连拍摄的时候，我都觉得，

Yeah, even while we're filming and I'm like,

天啊，我们真在干这事。

wow, we're really doing it.

他却说，

He's like,

我讨厌透了。

I hate it.

不是他真的讨厌，不是那样的。

Not he hates like No.

但你明白我的意思吧？

But do you know what I mean?

所以他才这么有意思。

That's why he's so funny.

这就是为什么。

That's why

他在这方面特别在行。

he's so good at it.

因为他真的去做。

Because he does it.

他会把自己置身于各种危险之中，内心焦虑得不行。

He'll put himself in like risky, like inside his anxiety is through

没错。

the Yes.

他还说，我就这么干了。

And he's like, I'm doing it.

我们仨和他一起，就像三个意外结识的朋友。

We it with him and the trio of you three like unexpected friends.

是的。

Yeah.

就像一群偶然凑在一起的家人。

Like, you know, like a random family.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

So good.

你为这个角色做了哪些准备？

What kind of prep did you do for that role?

这挺有意思的，因为我特别喜欢做饭。

So it was interesting when, because I love cooking.

我就想，合同上明明白白写着，我得真下厨。

I was like, so listen, contractually, I have to cook for real.

考虑到当时的情况，我想让大家清楚，这确实是她的职业，而且她很在行——而不是像一开始问亚历山大时那样，我问他：她是帮佣，还是受过专业训练的厨师？

And for many reasons and due to that time period, I wanted it to be clear that this was actually her job and that she was good at it versus like, first asked Alexander, I said, Is she the help or is she a learned chef?

他说：我其实希望她是个受过专业训练的——他说，厨师。

And he was like, I actually want her to be a learned- he said, Cook.

我就说：咱们别用那个词，就叫‘厨师’。

And I said, We're not gonna say that word, we're gonna say chef.

如果你要说她受过专业教育的话，

If you're saying she has an education in

她就是个厨师。

it- Yeah.

她是个厨师。

She's a chef.

没错。

Right.

所以一旦我明白他的意思，我就想，好吧，那你就得设计一些场景，让我在厨房里忙活，展现我在这片区域的掌控力。

And so once I knew that's where he was going with it, I was like, okay, so then you're going to have to establish scenes and moments where I'm dealing with the food and facilitating the kitchen to show my, prowls over this area.

对。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

我记得当时他特别配合，一个这么有名气、备受赞誉的人，居然这么开放、愿意合作，这真的很难得。我觉得这也是这部电影能这么成功的重要原因——他信任我们。

And so, and I remember there was like, there was, and he was so down, which was so cool for someone that acclaimed and lauded to have that much flexibility and collaboration, which I think is another huge reason why that movie just did so well, because he trusted us.

我们真的能紧密合作。

And we really got to work together.

有那么一个时刻，我跟他说，说实话，你找的那些厨房里的群演，全都是有色人种女性。

And so like, there was a moment where I was like, you know, to be honest, he had a lineup of extras for people that were going to be in my kitchen, and they were all women of color.

我说，你也得加几个白人女性进去。

And I was like, you're gonna have to put some white ladies in there too.

他当时说：‘真的吗？’

And he was like, really?

为什么？

Why?

我就跟他说，因为其他那些人看起来就像是我随便找来的朋友。

And I said, because it the other ones look like it's my friends that I just brought in.

而换成这个版本，就明显显得我是主事的了。

And then this other version makes it again look like, oh no, I'm in charge.

是的。

Yeah.

这些才是真正的厨师。

And these are the cooks.

我在电影里即兴加了一句，对那个白人女性说：‘放太多红椒粉了。’

So I ad libbed this line in the movie where I'm like to the white lady, too much paprika.

因为我心里想的是，不，不，不，她得能尝出来，然后说：‘红椒粉放太多了。’

Because in my mind I was like, no, no, no, she can taste it and be like, too much paprika.