朱莉娅·路易斯-德瑞弗斯

嗯。

Yeah.

而且这就是我喜欢你的节目的原因。

And and I it's why I love your show.

我已经跟你说过了。

And I've told you that.

我喜欢你做的深度访谈。

Like, I love the deep dive you do.

我确实觉得，从这些女性和她们的人生经历中，我获得了非常宏观的视角。

I do feel like I get this very, you know, big picture perspective from the women and the lives that they've led.

哦，谢谢。

Oh, thanks.

我要在这个话题上多聊一会儿。

I'm going to glaze you for a while on this.

这就是孩子们所说的‘深度探讨’。

This is what the kids call a glaze.

我是

I'm

夸奖？像糖一样？

glazing Like a sugar thing?

是的。

Yeah.

全是关于糖的。

So all about sugar.

夸奖就是，我要告诉你你有多棒。

Glaze is like, I'm gonna tell you how great you are.

系好安全带。

So buckle up.

好吧，有个词，现在还有一个词，我想不起来是什么了，本来想用它来回应的。

Okay, there's a word there's another word that's out now that I can't remember what it is that I was gonna respond with.

知道。

Know it.

但我已经想不起来了。

But it went out of my head.

如果我们知道，那就过时了。

And if we know it, it's out.

不可能。

There's no way.

不可能。

There's no way.

所以糖霜已经不酷了。

So glaze is not cool anymore.

当然不酷了。

Of course it isn't.

因为我都说了。

If I'm saying it.

所以现在我得说我已经死了。

So now I have to say I'm dead.

是的，没错。

Yeah, exactly.

我真的死了。

I'm dead.

认真的，打赌，打赌朱莉娅打赌。

Seriously, bet, bet Julia bet.

但是，但是你为你的节目做了多少研究呢，比如你

But, but you how much research do you do for your show like do you

很多呢，宝贝蛋糕。

a lot baby cake.

为什么不多努力工作呢？

Why don't why work so hard?

我不知道。

I don't know.

让我出去。

Get me out

的一部分。

of it.

你没收到要努力工作的通知吗？

Haven't you gotten the memo to work?

你有没有注意到我们为什么这么拼命工作？

Do do you see how how why are we working so hard?

我不知道。

I don't know.

你说你没那么努力工作。

Well, you say you're not working hard.

但既然你做了，你就是在努力。

But given to it, you are.

你确实有。

You've you have.

是的。

Yeah.

你就是。

You are.

对吧？

Right?

她吗？

Is she?

嗯。

Yeah.

她是。

She is.

大家都在摇头。

Everyone's shaking their head.

你就是。

You are.

你装作不努力来显得很酷，但实际上你干得特别卖力。

You're pretending like you're not to be cool, but you're working super hard.

但我得告诉你

But I gotta tell you

但这是个迹象，我认为，是我们所有人都习惯做的一件更大的事，那就是做一个优秀的学生。

you're but it is it's an indication, I think, of a bigger thing that we all are used to doing, which is being a very good student.

就是，努力工作。

Like, just, like, working hard.

是的。

Yes.

没错。

That's true.

这在你的生活中是否也存在？

And and has that been something you found in your life?

你 basically 想要表现好，做个好学生。

You like, you wanna do well and be a good student, basically.

我想表现好。

I wanna do well.

是的。

Yeah.

而且对我来说，这个播客完全是源于我自己的好奇心。

And also, for me, the with this podcast, it was really born out of my own curiosity.

事实上，我曾经来找过你，跟你聊过这个播客。

In fact, I came to you and talked to you about this podcast once.

知道。

Know.

我记得当时觉得这很难。

And I remember thinking this sounds hard.

我知道。

I know.

如果我们做了呢？

Was like, if we did?

我当时想，这太

I was like, that's

大量的研究。

lot of research.

你去做吧。

You do it.

她就是这么说的。

That's what she said.

谁是那些你采访过的埃里克斯？你采访了谁，可以推荐一下？

Who is coming up the Ericks who have you, who have you interviewed that you can plug,

我可以推荐以下几位，我可以推荐简·柯蒂尔。

well I can plug the following I can plug Jane curtain.

求你了，求你了。

Please, please.

我们来聊一聊简，就一秒。

Let's talk about Jane for one second.

我们就坐在这儿，好好想想简。

Let's just sit here and think about Jane.

嗯，说实话，能和她交谈真的是一种荣幸，但这也是一个绝佳的机会，让我重新回顾她的作品，尤其是她早年在《周六夜现场》的工作，因为她是原始演员阵容之一。

Well, know what, it was really, first of all, obviously, an honor to talk to her, but it was a great opportunity to go back and look at her work and particularly her work on SNL back in the day because, of course, she was one of the original cast members.

去理解她的作品对我个人产生的影响。

And to understand the effect, speak for myself, that had on my life.

是的。

Yeah.

巨大无比。

Ginormous.

没错。

Yes.

巨大无比。

Ginormous.

完全正确。

Totally.

你知道吗，我看了第一集，珍妮丝·伊恩正在演唱《十七岁学会的真相》。

And, you know, I and I watched that first episode, and Janice Ian is singing I Learned the Truth at 17.

首播时我14岁，正在看这个节目。

And I was 14 watching the show when that premiered.

这些人就是我的同类。

And these were my people.

是的。

Yeah.

卡罗尔·伯内特的情况也是如此。

And so same was true of Carol Burnett.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，在某种程度上，这些具有文化影响力的人物会不知不觉地融入你的血液中。

You know, you sort of don't to a certain extent, these people that have these cultural icons who've had proper influence, they get into your bloodstream without your knowing it.

完全正确。

Totally.

而且这，这，这，你

And it's, and it's, it's, you

你知道，那件事就是，你得看到它，才能成为它。

know, that thing, like, you have to see it to be it.

这不是有意识的。

It's not conscious.

你并不是说，哦，那里有个女人，而是你看到人们在扮演这些角色，然后这种可能性就自然而然地融入了你的DNA，成为你生活中世界的一部分。

It's not like you say, Oh, there's a woman on there, but you just see people filling this role, and you just becomes part of your DNA that that could exist in your life in your world.

对。

Right.

没错，完全如此。

Yeah, completely.

太了不起了。

So, incredible.

太了不起了。

Incredible.

顺便说一下，你可能知道这一点，但我跟简聊天时学到了一件非常非凡的事，因为你知道，我们都很熟悉《周六夜现场》的排班，那真是累得要命。

By the way, you may know this, but something I learned talking to Jane that was kind of extraordinary, because you and I are familiar with the schedule of SNL, which is grueling.

简并没有被聘为编剧。

Jane was not hired as a writer.

她立刻决定，周一和周二不去上班。

And immediately, she made the decision that she was not gonna come to work on Monday and Tuesday.

我发誓。

I swear

所以像个大佬。

So to baller.

大佬？

Baller?

她就像说，我不是来写东西的。

She's like, I'm not here to write.

我是来表演的。

I'm here to perform.

你写好了就告诉我

Let me know when you write You're for

付我演员的报酬。

paying me as an actor.

我周三会来参加剧本围读。

I'll be here for the table read on Wednesday.

哇。

Wow.

而且她自己说，她是个非常出色的即兴读稿者。

And the great thing about that was she's a really good cold reader according to her.

所以她总能表现得非常好。

And so she'd nail it.

然后她就会出现在小品里。

And then she'd be in sketches.

但她并没有过那种充满药物、通宵达旦的生活。

But she was not doing that drug filled all nighter life.

哇。

Wow.

我只是觉得她有这种意识，知道自己在保护自己。

And I just that she had the sense to realize that she was protecting herself.

顺便说一下，她也结婚了。

FYI, she was married too.

是的，简总是显得像那个最理智的演员。

Yeah, she always Jane seemed like the reasonable cast member.

因为她确实如此。

Because she was.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我跟马丁·肖特说过这事，当时他在节目中，我们聊到了《周六夜现场》五十周年，这引发了大家的很多回忆。

I told this to Martin Short, Marty Short when he was on the show we were talking about the SNL fiftieth, which stirred up so much for everybody.

我的意思是，那确实

I mean, it was, it was

演播室里充满了各种情绪。

a lot of there were a lot of feelings in that studio.

我知道，就我本人而言，我有一部分真的退回到了过去，就像我当年在那里的样子。

I know and I can speak for myself that parts of me really regressed, like back to, you know, some version of what I was like when I was there.

而且，我内心那个年轻的部分，对那些我从小看过的名人感到无比崇拜。

And also the young part of me was like starstruck by the people who, you know, I grew up watching.

我最动人的时刻之一，是和洛林·纽曼聊天，我对她并不太熟，但非常崇拜她，是的，她和简一起准备。

And I, the one of my tenderest moments was I was talking to Lorraine Newman who I don't know that well and I worship, yes, and her and Jane got ready together.

是的，她们就是这样。

Yeah, they're like that.

她们一起做头发和化妆。

And they got their hair and makeup together.

是的，那让我感到非常开心，因为我只希望她们能永远做朋友。

Yeah, before and it just made me feel so happy, because I just wanted them to be friends forever.

她们确实一直是朋友。

And they were.

我知道她们确实如此，然后她们在结尾举起了吉尔达的照片。

I know they are and then they held up Gilda's picture at the

结尾。

end.

这太感人了。

It was so touching.

我知道。

I know.

我知道，朱莉娅，即使我认为你——不管你是否接受这一点——我都觉得你像

You Julia, even though I consider you, you're, I consider you whether you'll accept this or not like

我不接受。

I don't accept it.

我就知道。

I knew it.

我不接受。

I don't.

我不会接受的。

I'm not gonna accept it.

我只是很好。

I'm just Good, though.

我要说点好事。

I'm gonna say something good.

好吧，说吧。

Okay, go ahead.

给我点大姐的气场。

Big sister energy for me.

像- 真的吗？

Like- Oh, really?

我觉得，就像你看到简那样，你上《周六夜现场》的时候我才十一二岁，而你还是个孩子。

I feel like in the same way you saw Jane, I was 11, 12 when you were on SNL, and you were a baby.

你那时候才二十一岁左右。

You were like 21 or something.

所以你并没有比我大多少，但你确实是节目里新来的女性，我知道我一直关注着节目里谁是新人，而你看起来非常年轻，这让我很喜欢，因为我当时也很年轻，希望节目里有个年轻人。

So you were not that much older than me but you were definitely a new woman on the show and you know I was always paying attention to who was new on the show, and you looked really young, which I loved because I was young and wanted a young person on the show.

我得说，当我为这次采访做准备时，我们有无数种方式可以谈论你职业生涯和人生中做过的无数事情，以及你作为一个人的方方面面。

And I have to say, like, when I was getting preparing for this interview, there's a million ways that we can talk about all the million things that you've done in your career and your life and who you are as a person.

我很幸运能称你为朋友。

And I've gotten lucky to get to call you a friend.

但你简直就是电视界的勒布朗·詹姆斯。

But you are like the LeBron James of TV.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，谢谢，但我不会接受这个说法。

I I mean, thanks, but I I'm not gonna I'm not accepting that.

我真不会接受这个说法，老兄。

I'm not accepting that, man.

那我告诉你为什么这么说。

Well, here's why I say that.

你不接受。

You're not accepting.

但我认为你不接受这个其实很聪明。

And I think that's smart to not accept it, actually.

我收回刚才的话。

I take it back.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

但不是这样。

But no.

但你确实一直表现得很好。

But the but you have been you're pretty good.

你赢了三次。

You won three.

这就是它的本质。

This is what this is.

我要把这个比喻延伸一下，我很高兴从体育的角度想到了这个点子，因为

I'm gonna extend the metaphor, and then I'm just I'm pleased that I came up with this from a sports perspective because

因为你太

because you're such a

爱运动了，我真的很爱运动。

sportsy I'm such a sporty.

意思是，这

Mean, this

这个播客讲的就是这个。

is what this podcast is about.

嗯。

Yeah.

体育。

Sports.

嗯。

Yeah.

让我们深入探讨一下深度

Like, let's go deep into the Deep

进入选秀和足球。

into the draft and football.

让我们开始

Let's get

深入进去。

in there.

让我们深入进去。

Let's go into there.

让我们深入一点。

Let's get deep in.

好吧，但因为你像勒布朗，你为不止一支球队赢得过冠军，你确实参加过很多关于伟大传奇的节目。

Okay, no but because you're LeBron because you have won championships for more than one team, you're, you have been on huge legacy shows.

不止一次。

More than once.

是的。

Yeah.

这并不算非常罕见。

It's not that's very unusual.

这非常

It's very

罕见，而且这需要很多好运，你知道的。

unusual, and that's a lot of good luck, you know, really.

真是太棒了。

And so so great.

但其实并不像勒布朗。

But not really LeBron.

好的。

Okay.

好的，好的，好的。

Okay, okay, okay.

但是，我们一开始在谈赢，我们在比较照片。

But, but what is your we started talking about winning, we were comparing photos.

是的，

Yeah,

你对胜利的态度是什么？

what is your relationship to winning?

因为我喜欢你热爱赢的样子，就像我喜欢那种喜欢有趣竞争的女性。

Because I like that you like to win, like I like, I like, like fun competitive women.

首先，‘有趣’要大写，因为还有一种竞争型女性。

Well, first of all, fun is all caps because, because there's another kind of competitive woman.

完全正确。

Totally.

那种我们不欣赏。

That we don't care for.

没错。

That's right.

有趣的部分必须是真正开心的。

It has to the fun part has it has to be like, in good fun.

好吧，我给你讲个关于你的故事，我特别喜欢这个。

Well, here, I'm gonna tell you a story about you that I like so much.

好的。

Okay.

你和我曾经几次在颁奖典礼上合作表演小品。

So you and I have down a couple of times done bits around award shows.

当我们彼此竞争的时候。

And and when we're competing against each other.

那正是

That's

对。

right.

所以，这些年我发现，专注于赢或输之后该做什么非常好。

So anyway, what I have found over the years is that it's very good to focus on what to do if you win or you lose.

嗯。

Mhmm.

和艾米·波勒一起构思小品非常有趣。

And Amy Poehler is very fun to come up with bits with.

我喜欢小品。

I love a bit.

喜欢小品。

Love a bit.

在颁奖典礼上，因为以前很有趣。

At an award show that because it used to be fun.

以前总是很搞笑。

It used to be like goofy.

但现在太严肃了。

And now it's so serious.

是的。

Yeah.

顺便说一下，我们虽然认真对待演讲，但却是从喜剧的角度出发。

And by the way, we took speeches seriously, but from a comic point of view.

如果你因喜剧角色获奖，在领奖时尽量搞笑。

If you win for a comedic role, try to be funny when you give

演讲。

a speech.

或者，即使你因戏剧角色获奖呢？

Or how about even if you win for a for a dramatic role?

这个主意怎么样？

How about that great idea?

彻底颠覆它。

Turning on its head.

反转一下。

Flip it.

翻转它。

Flip it.

只要有人这么做了，他们看起来就像个天才。

Anytime anybody does, they look like a genius.

天才。

Genius.

不。

No.

真的。

For really.

他们看起来就像个天才。

They look like a genius.

没错。

It's true.

所以我们做了几个这样的环节，我认为我最喜欢的其中一个就是和你一起假装交换获奖感言。

So we did a couple of them where we my I think my favorite one with you, but you tell me, was when we we pretended to switch acceptance speeches.

那是我最喜欢的。

That was my favorite.

你上台去了。

You went up there.

我们互相拥抱了一下。

We gave each other a hug.

然后我们假装搞错了，交换了获奖感言，你上台后开始感谢《公园与游憩》里的人，接着我们突然意识到：天啊，出错了。

And then we pretended to like, oopsie switch speeches and then you went up and you started thanking people from Parks and Rec and then we had a moment of like, oh fuck.

摄像机切到了我。

And the camera cut to me.

那些年里，我必须说，我们这个奖项类别里总有很多杰出的女性，来来往往。

And those were the years I have to say there were so many great women always in our category that came and went.

朱莉娅总是出现在那里，因为她每年都能碾压我们所有人，但大家也都乐于参与这种有趣的互动。

Julia was always there because she always crushed us all every year but, but, and like people were really game to have fun.

是的。

Yeah.

完全正确。

Completely.

我只记得那些片段中的欢乐时光。

And I don't remember anything other than the fun times of those bits.

是的，我也是。

Yeah, me too.

我真的很感激有你，因为有些人根本不愿意参与这些桥段，他们就不点名了。

I really I was always so grateful that you were Because there were certain people that weren't down to do those bits and they won't be named.

但我们确实努力了。

But we did try.

我们努力去适应

We did try to fit

和其他人一起。

with other people.

他们没有做到

They didn't it

他们不想做。

They didn't wanna do it.

我知道。

I know.

我觉得他们中的一些人很紧张，真的是很紧张。

I think some of them were nervous, like genuinely nervous.

好吧，你可以这么说。

Okay, fine, you can say that.

但好吧，我们先开始吧。

But okay, want to start though.

我想稍微回溯一下，因为我觉得我们当面聊过这一点，但我们的即兴喜剧芝加哥起步经历很相似。

I want to go back a little bit because I feel like we talked a little bit about this in person but we, we kind of had similar sketch Chicago beginnings.

是的，我们当时在一个团体里。

Yeah, like we, we were in a group.

我们是团体里唯一的女孩。

We were the only girl in the group.

是的，我们的团队搬到了一个新城市，打算重新开始，而你们的情况是实践剧院。

Yeah, and our group kind of moved to a new city to like make a start and in your case, practical Theater.

剧院。

Theater.

实践剧院公司一起搬到了《周六夜现场》。

Practical Theater Company moved to SNL together.

是的。

Yes.

你当时在西北大学就上电视了。

You were on TV from Northwestern.

是的。

Yes.

那是哪一年？

So what year was that?

1982年。

1982.

是的。

Yeah.

我们在芝加哥做了一档节目，那在芝加哥非常火爆，节目里的所有人都被录用了。

And we were doing a show in Chicago that was a big hit in Chicago and, and all the people in the show got hired.

我们一共四个人。

There were four of us.

我们三个人去了《周六夜现场》。

Three of us were on SNL.

第四个人保罗·布拉斯被聘为编剧。

And the fourth person Paul Buras was hired as a writer.

是的。

Yeah.

然后你们都搬到了纽约，一起开始了工作。

And you all moved to New York and just started together.

和四五个最亲密的朋友一起启动这个节目，感觉怎么样？

What was it like to have four or five of your closest friends to start that show with?

嗯，这有点棘手。

Well, it was tricky.

嗯。

Yeah.

并不是因为我们相处不好，而是因为我们这一群人遭到了很多敌意。

Not because we didn't get along, but because we were a group of people who were met with a lot of animosity.

嗯。

Yeah.

而且是那些刚被解雇的朋友的人。

And by the by the people whose friends had just been fired.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

而且

And

如果我能想象出来，因为我自己以前也是这样，喜剧小品团体有种无所畏惧的劲头，小品就像即兴表演，单口喜剧很酷，而即兴和小品则有点书呆子气。

if I can imagine it because I was myself the same way there's like a pluckiness to a sketch group like a sketch group is like improv and sketches like stand up was cool, and improv and sketch was kind of nerdy.

确实很书呆子气。

Nerdy for sure.

所以我们就说，嘿，兄弟们，我们在这儿了，我敢肯定每个人心里都想：好吧。

And, you know, so it was like hey guys we're here and I'm sure everyone was like, okay.

恭喜。

Congrats.

不，但你们可能不知道，也许你们知道，当他们第一次让我们……哦，天哪，我都想不起来了，不行。

No, but you're gonna I don't know if you know, maybe you know this, but when they had us at the first oh, god, I can't even Oh, no.

那简直太煎熬了。

It was just so excruciating.

17楼有个房间，装着荧光灯，还有那种折叠桌，他们就在那儿做剧本朗读。

There's this room on the 17th Floor with fluorescent lighting and, you know, folding tables, and that's where they do the table read.

就在同一个房间里，他们让我们这些新来的人，表演我们在芝加哥时做的节目片段，给编剧和演员们看。

And in that same room, they had us, these new people coming in, do part of our show that we were doing in Chicago for the writers and casts.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

是的。

Yeah.

在荧光灯下。

In fluorescent lighting.

哦，哇。

Oh, wow.

我们来到了你的观点。

And we came out to your point.

而且

And

没效果。

it didn't land.

没效果。

It did not land.

是的。

Yeah.

就连说出来，我的腋下现在都快疯了。

Even saying it, my my armpits are going bananas right now.

哇哦。

Woo.

是的。

Yeah.

太糟糕了。

It was so bad.

我懂，我经历过。

I've been there.

所以，不管怎样，事情就是这样开始的。

So, anyway, that's how it began.

那真是一个糟糕透顶的不祥开端。

It was a terrible inauspicious start.

你在那儿待了几年。

And you were there for a couple of years.

三年。

Three.

你在那段过渡时期也在那儿。

And you were there during a period of transition.

我的意思是，劳伦当时

I mean, Lauren was

不在那儿。

Not there.

劳伦不在那儿。

Lauren was not there.

迪克·埃弗迪索尔在那儿。

Dick Everdissol was there.

你恰好在那个奇怪的时期待在那里。

What a strange window to be there.

哦，宝贝。

Oh, baby.

情况很糟。

It was bad.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

并不怎么样。

It was not great.

并不怎么样。

It was not great.

但是一次极好的学习经历。

But fabulous learning experience.

是的。

Yeah.

这很难。

It was hard.

而且有点让人发疯，但我从中变得更强大了。

And it was a little crazy making but I, I came away from it sort of stronger.

嗯。

Yeah.

而且遇到了拉里·戴维，后来你又和他一起合作了《宋飞正传》，而《宋飞正传》一开始也差不多，开局并不顺利。

And met Larry David who you then worked with again on Seinfeld and Seinfeld still similar kind of thing like didn't had an auspicious start.

是的，当时只定了四集。

Yeah, it was a four episode order.

他们只是想试试看。

It was like they were just trying to

差不多是想把它熬掉。

sort of burn it out.

当我做研究的时候。

When I was doing research.

哦，看你工作的样子

Oh, look at you working

很努力，非常努力。

hard, very hard.

你是我为之付出最多努力的人。

You are the person I worked the hardest for.

这完全是胡说八道。

That's total bullshit.

这是真的。

It is true.

是的，我为米歇尔·奥巴马付出的努力最多。

Yeah, I've worked the hardest for Michelle Obama.

是的。

Yeah.

聪明。

Smart.

是啊，聪明，但不是，像《公园与游憩》那样，《宋飞正传》一直濒临被取消。

Yeah, smart, but no, but but like Parks and Rec, Seinfeld was always close to being canceled.

人们都不理解。

People weren't getting it.

我们根本不知道自己手里握着什么。

It was like, we don't know what we have here.

没人知道，直到第三年才开始走红。

Nobody Yeah, knew was until the third year it started to take off.

是啊。

Yeah.

最初，伊莱恩这个角色是按男性写的。

And was, was, was Elaine written as a man.

一开始这个角色。

At first that character.

后来才改成了伊莱恩。

For men, and then they changed it to Elaine.

你不知道。

You don't know.

不，我

No, I

不知道。

don't.

这样问是不是有点奇怪。

Is that a weird way to ask it.

你知道我的意思。

You know what I mean.

我懂，但这让我笑。

I do but it makes me laugh.

我觉得我累了。

I think I'm tired.

伊莱恩是，

Elaine was,

你当时把伊莱恩演成了男人。

you were playing Elaine as a man.

是的。

Yes.

不是。

No.

对。

Correct.

但他们请来这个角色不是因为

But wasn't the character they brought

你是因为他们想

you in because they were

像朱莉娅一样，而且因为那句‘他们拍了一个试播集’。

like Julia and because of the phrase They did a pilot.

是的。

Yeah.

然后，据称电视台告诉他们，你们得加一个女孩进去

And then apparently the network told them you have to put a girl in

所以， somewhere 还有段录像，里面是另一个人？

the So there's some tape out there somewhere where there's another person in?

不。

No.

不是在那里，没有

Not in there is not

试播集中没有常驻女性角色。

a regular women in the pilot.

对。

Correct.

哇。

Wow.

是的。

Yeah.

那是不同的时代。

It's it was a different time.

于是他们说，你知道吗，你需要一个女孩。

And so they said, know what, you need a girl.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我就进来了。

And so, so I came in.

顺便说一下，我从来没看过《宋飞正传》的试播集。

I've never watched the pilot of Seinfeld, by the way.

那我为什么要看呢？

And so, why would I?

我不在剧里。

I'm not in it.

我为什么要费这个劲呢？

Why would I bother?

嗯。

Yeah.

你拒绝看任何东西，你说得对。

You refuse to watch anything That's you're right.

对。

That's right.

嗯。

Yeah.

你演的那个节目叫什么名字？

What was the name of the show you were in?

没错，就是这样。

Yeah, exactly.

嗯。

Yeah.

所以，是的，事情就是这样。

So, yeah, so that's what happened.

所以他们让我出演了，从第二集开始我就在剧里了。

So they put me in so I was in the episode two onward.

我觉得在喜剧界、情景喜剧界，成功常常是以人们是否会打扮成你的样子过万圣节来衡量的。

And I feel like success in the comedy world, in the sitcom world is often like kind of measured by whether or not people will dress up as you for Halloween.

哦，我觉得伊莱恩是挺受欢迎的万圣节装扮。

Oh, I think Elaine is a popular Halloween costume.

是的。

It is.

是的。

It is.

而且它很

And it's

很容易搭配。

an easy one to get together.

就是一件裙子、一件西装外套，再加一个卷发假发。

Like, it's just it's a dress and a blazer and a curly haired wig.

天啊，我真想回到过去改掉那个造型。

God, I could I'd love to go back and fix that look.

是啊。

Yeah.

你懂我的意思吧？

You feel me?

有一些早期的莱斯利·诺普的造型，我觉得我根本没花多少心思在上面。

There's some early Leslie Knope styles where I'm like, didn't put enough thought into that.

是啊。

Yeah.

但我们当时根本没考虑这些。

But we weren't really thinking about that.

不，我们当时只是在演戏，沉浸在角色里。

No, we were act we were acting and we were in our character.

不，我其实记得，当《老友记》播出的时候，我们在拍《宋飞正传》的中后期，不是一开始，那些女孩们都太性感了。

No, I actually remember because like when Friends came out at some point when we were doing Seinfeld, not in the beginning, was sort of, I can't remember what the years were, but, and all those girls were so sexy.

嗯。

Yeah.

我记得当时想，天啊，我本该表现得更有魅力的。

And I remember thinking like, oh fuck I should have been sexy.

是啊，我总是这么想。

Yeah, I think that all the time.

说实话，我说不出我有多少次觉得自己忘了要表现得有魅力。

Seriously, I can't tell you how many I'm like oh I forgot to be sexy.

不，

No,

完全对。

totally.

嗯。

Yeah.

哦

Oh

我的天。

my god.

这真是个错失的机会。

This was such a misopportunity.

当你看到别人时就会想起这一点。

Reminded of it when you see other people.

你会想，哦，这也是我本可以尝试去做的。

You're like, oh, that's also something I could have tried to be.

我是认真的。

I I seriously.

是啊。

Yeah.

比如露脐装。

Like a midriff.

任何东西都行。

Anything.

任何事。

Anything.

但这就是我们喜欢艾琳的原因。

But that's why we love Aline.

我们喜欢她，正是因为她让我们感到亲切。

We love her because of that because she feels like us.

她就像我们认识并会喜欢的一个人。

She feels like someone we would know and love.

就像，她就像我们最搞笑的朋友。

Like, she feels like our funniest friend.

她就是她，我的意思是，我觉得，如果伊莲娜太在意这些，就根本不会有效果。

She feels like her, like, you know, I mean, I think and she's so funny and it's it just could it wouldn't work if Elaine was paying attention to that.

这根本行不通。

It never would work.

也许会有效。

It might've worked.

没错。

That's true.

她只是经历了一段

She just went through,

非常放荡、性感的时期。

like, a really slutty, sexy phase.

没那么放荡，只是穿着紧身牛仔裤出现，她们都穿成什么样？

Not so slutty, just coming in, like, in tight jeans and, like, how are they all dressed?

是啊。

Yeah.

我知道。

I know.

总之，别总纠结于我的遗憾。

Anyway, because dwell on my regrets.

但你也还有两个儿子。

But also you had two two boys.

你当时怀孕了吗？

Did you were you pregnant?

哦，对了。

Oh, right.

我忘了。

I forgot that.

嗯。

Yeah.

那段时间我生了两个孩子。

I had two babies during that time.

所以那个性感的事儿，虽然你知道，你看，黛米·摩尔就那样。

So the sexy thing although, you know, look, Demi Moore did.

我知道。

I know.

但我根本不知道那件事。

But I didn't even know about that.

我不知道原来怀着大肚子还能这么性感。

I didn't know about, like, you know, going like that with your big tummy and looking hot.

我只是穿着超大的、像野餐桌布一样的衣服。

I was just, you know, I was just wearing huge, like, picnic tablecloths.

是啊，但这种风格现在又回来了，九十年代的风格。

Yeah, but that style is back now, know, nineties

又回来了。

are back.

听好了，如果美国有人在听这个，请别再搞九十年代那一套了。

Listen, if anybody in America is listening to this, please don't do the nineties again.

我不同意你的看法。

I'm gonna disagree with you.

好吧。

Okay.

你错了，我才是对的。

Well, you're wrong and I'm right.

不。

No.

那就这样吧。

And so just leave it

到此为止。

at that.

你情绪上头了，但我跟你说，九十年代那种风格——印花搭配厚底鞋、紧身衣和西装，简直是完美组合。

You're being triggered, but I'm telling you nineties, like that, the the floral with the, like, a chunky shoe and a tight and a blazer, fucking jackpot.

就像……

Like,

你算了吧。

you Pass.

你和詹妮弗·安妮斯顿，看看照片里瑞秋和伊莱恩，现在人人都在穿那样的衣服。

You and Jen Aniston, when you look at pictures like Rachel and, and Elaine, everybody's dressing like that now.

而且我并不

And I I don't

我不知道该说什么。

know what to say.

我真的非常抱歉。

I'm just so fucking sorry.

我真的、真的非常抱歉。

I really, really am.

但我可以告诉你一件事。

But I will tell you one thing.

我以前讲过这个故事，但当我怀查理——我第二个儿子的时候，我那时怀孕很厉害。

And I've told this story before, but when I was pregnant with Charlie, with my second son, and I was really pregnant.

我大约五六个月的时候，肚子已经很大了。

And I was about five or six months and I got pretty big.

杰里走到我面前。

And Jerry comes up to me.

他对我说：嘿，我们有个关于择优选择的想法。

And he says, Hey, we got an idea in the right of choice.

哦，不。

Oh, no.

他说：这个主意怎么样？

And he said, How about this idea?

要不伊莱就这么胖下去？

How about Elaine just gets fat?

不可思议。

Incredible.

多棒的主意。

What an idea.

真是个好主意，杰瑞。

What an idea, Jerry.

于是我哭了起来。

So I burst into tears.

当然。

Course.

但我还是要说以下几点。

And I will say the following though.

回过头来看，这可能是个很棒的主意。

In retrospect, it might have been great.

这可能会很好笑。

It might have been funny.

这是个很搞笑的点子。

It's a funny idea.

对，太搞笑了，而且她会有一个大肚子。

Yeah, hilarious and it would have know, a big tummy

然后你系上腰带，假装自己不是怀孕，只是变胖了。

and then you're like putting a belt on it and you're pretending you're not pregnant, you're just getting fat.

但当你对自己的身体感觉不好时，那感觉就像是

But when you're not feeling in your own body, it's, it's like

这行不通，完全行不通。

It didn't, it didn't, it didn't work.

我记得在《公园与游憩》里，我曾经在这部剧里怀过两次孕。

I remember on Parks and Rec, I had been pregnant on twice on that show too.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

或者抱歉，我是在生下第一个孩子后不久就开始拍戏，然后几年后又怀上了我的小儿子亚伯。

And, or sorry, I had started when I had just given birth for my first kid and then I got pregnant on my, with Abel, my youngest a few years later.

我记得我饰演的莱斯利这个角色在剧里也要怀孕。

And I remember my character Leslie was going to become pregnant on the show.

我说，我做了一个类似突然哭出来的反应，说：我不能假装怀孕。

And I said, I did some version of like bursting into tears where I said, I cannot be fake pregnant.

我已经在《周六夜现场》和《公园与游憩》里都真正怀过孕了。

I've just been really pregnant on both SNL and Parks and Rec.

我真的是怀孕了。

I've been genuinely pregnant.

你们不能再让我现在戴上假肚子了。

And I can't you can't make me now wear a fake stomach.