明迪·卡林

要应付这种事。

Having to deal with.

对。

Yeah.

他们叫你明迪，是因为《马尔克和明迪》这部剧。

They call you Mindy, your nickname, because from Mork and Mindy.

《马尔克和明迪》。

Mork and Mindy.

所以这还真是……

So it was a real

这传递的信息有点矛盾。

like That's a real mixed message.

我父母是七十年代移民过来的，家里没人从事娱乐行业，但他们特别喜欢喜剧。

Well, they my parents immigrated here in the seventies, and nobody in entertainment on either side of the family, but they did, like, love comedy.

特别喜欢。

Loved it.

对我们来说也是，每次回家，总能坐下来聊些特别深入的话题。

Like and I think for us too where it's like wasn't it like we were coming home and having, like, these, you know, always, like, these deep chats.

对。

Yeah.

我们就坐在电视前，追那些必看的剧。

But we would just, like, sit in front of the TV and watch must see TV.

他们特别喜欢《宋飞正传》。

They love Seinfeld.

是啊。

Mhmm.

他们也特别喜欢《老友记》。

They love Friends.

还有《考斯比一家》。

They love The Cosby Show.

是

Is

这样可以吗？

that okay?

当然可以。

Sure.

我的意思是，我们每个人以前都这样过。

I mean, we all did at one point.

以前都这样。

At one point.

对吧？

Right?

我记得特别清楚，大概十一二岁的时候，我特别迷《周六夜现场》。

I can say But I remember so distinctly when I was like 11 or 12 and I was, of course, like obsessed with Saturday Night Live.

是的。

Yeah.

我们那时候总看克里斯·法利。

We would watch Chris Farley.

那就是你的那个主演阵容吗？

That was that your, like, cast?

是的。

Yes.

当时有桑德勒、克里斯·法利这些人。

It was like Sandler, Chris Farley.

但从达纳·卡维到比尔·哈德尔，这中间隔了挺长一段时间。

But honestly, like, from Dana Carvey to Bill Hader feels like the time, which is a long span.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我们当时看的是不是马特·福利那个角色？

But we would see is it Matt Foley?

对。

Yeah.

马特·福利。

Matt Foley.

还有克里斯·法利演的那个角色，《河边》。

And character, Chris Farley's character, Down by the River.

《河边》。

Down by the River.

经典又标志性的角色。

Classic iconic character.

是的。

Yeah.

他绝对是历史上最搞笑的演员之一。

And he's like, I think one of the funniest people of all time.

我同意。

I agree.

你知道吗，他有时候会摔在咖啡桌上。

And when he you know, he'd fall on the coffee table.

我记得当时笑得特别厉害，还录下来给爸妈看。

And I remember laughing at it so so much and showing it to my parents, like recording it.

我记得我妈特别担心，因为我那时候体重超标。

And I remember my mom being very worried and being like because I was overweight.

她曾经在我十四岁左右认真地跟我谈过一次。

And I think she was like and so she was like, I don't she once sat me down when I was like 14.

她说，我不希望你变成那样。

I was like, I don't want you to be like that.

这真有意思。

Oh, that's really interesting.

没错。

Right.

别觉得你非得装成小丑才能被人喜欢。

Like, don't don't feel like you need to be a clown.

她大概是觉得，我这个胖乎乎、不合主流的女儿，会以为只有学克里斯·法利那样才能被接纳、显得有趣。

And I think she thought that like, okay, my overweight daughter who's not fitting into like the mainstream of culture will feel like the way to be accepted and funny is to be like Chris Farley.

现在想想，克里斯·法利的风采，恐怕连他自己都配不上自己。

Now the majesty of Chris Farley, like, would only be so lucky as to have been like Chris Farley.

但作为一个九十年代中期的女孩，那条路根本行不通。

But as a girl in the mid nineties, that was like not a great path.

我很高兴我们聊到这个，因为这真是个很有意思的观点——当年的年轻女性，尤其是八九十年代，想进入喜剧圈，路途真的特别艰难，而男性根本不用操心这些。

I love that we're talking about this because it's such an interesting point, which is young women, especially in the late eighties and nineties, their way into comedy, like how you get in was really fraught in a way that men just did not have to worry about.

她们不用担心自己太胖、太夸张会让人反感。

They didn't have to worry about being physical and not seeming like it was putting people off.

她们也不用担心自己会被过度性化。

They didn't have to worry about like them being too sexualized.

她们根本不用操心这么多事。

To didn't worry about a ton of stuff.

我觉得就像你小时候看喜剧，心里想着，我不知道，但我好想活在这样的世界里。

I think that much like you watching comedy at a young age and being like, I don't know, I wanna live in this world.

我不知道该怎么进去。

I don't know how to get into it.

而那里主要都是些声音很大、动作很夸张的男性。

And it was inhabited by really loud, physical men for the most part.

然后我找到了那些我特别喜欢的女喜剧人，默默观察她们的表演。

And then finding the women who I loved, who I just kind of studied.

我就想，她们到底是在哪儿学的？

And for me, it was like, okay, where did they study?

这些女性是从哪里起步的？

Where did these women start?

于是我决定，我要去芝加哥。

So I was like, oh, I wanna go to Chicago.

我就这么直接去了。

Like, I'm just gonna go there.

那你上达特茅斯的时候，也做喜剧吗？

And when you were like, did you do comedy at Dartmouth?

对。

Yeah.

你做过即兴表演吗？

Did you do improv?

我做过短篇即兴表演。

I did short form improv.

我们都做过。

We all did.

你知道，那会儿

You know, it's

特别搞笑。

so funny.

大学里让我最开心的两件事，现在回想起来简直让人尴尬，但正是在那里，我结识了很多很棒的朋友。

The two things that brought me so much joy in college are so mortifying to me now, but it's where I made so many great friends.

我在达特茅斯参加了狗日剧团的短篇即兴表演。

I did short form improv with the Dog Day Players at Dartmouth.

太棒了。

Incredible.

我

I

你们那个狗日剧团还在吗？

was in Dog Day players still there?

狗日剧团现在还在。

Dog Day players is still there.

真厉害。

Incredible.

他们时不时会来洛杉矶，我相信你也有这种感觉，每隔几年，我会去见他们，或者我回达特茅斯时能碰上。

And they're so and every so often, like every couple of years, I'm sure you feel as well, I like, they'll come to LA and I'll meet them or I'll see them at Dartmouth when I go up.

他们现在特别酷，改做长篇即兴了。

And they're so cool now and they do long form.

他们还搞那种学习活动，把所有剧集都看过了，没错。

And they they also have that, like, studying thing where they've seen every Yeah.

《公园与游憩》《发展受阻》《拉里·桑德斯秀》全看完了。

Episode of Parks and Arrested Development, Larry Sanders.

你知道

You know

我的意思吧？

what I mean?

对。

Yes.

他们跟那些比我小二十五岁的人之间有一种亲近感。

They know Akinship to these people that are twenty five years younger than me.

但不同的是，队里的男生都很支持女权，女生们也毫不畏惧地做真实的自己。

But the difference is that, like, the guys in the troop are feminist, the women are unafraid to be what to be who they are.

他们基本上都算是行动派。

They're all sort of activists.

就像我之前一直纠结的那些问题

Like, all the stuff that I struggled with

那时候

back then

去做，因为那没什么吸引力。

to do because it wasn't appealing.

是的。

Yeah.

我们都做过。

We all did.

我当时想变得像亚当·桑德勒在《上曼哈顿》里那么搞笑，但也想要个男朋友，还想失去童贞。

I wanted to be as, like, funny as Adam Sandler into Upper Man, but I also wanted a boyfriend and to lose my virginity.

对。

Mhmm.

到了九十年代末，这两件事好像根本没法同时实现。

And in the late nineties, it was like those two things were maybe, like, did not they seem mutually exclusive.

没错。

Oh, yeah.

你还参加过无伴奏合唱团。

A cappella group you were also in.

我超喜欢无伴奏合唱团。

I love an a cappella group.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

我以前在无伴奏合唱团待过。

I was in an a cappella group.

你有没有唱过独唱？唱的是哪一首？

And what song did you ever have a solo?

我唱过一次独唱。

I had one solo.

那首歌叫什么？

And what was the song?

多莉·帕顿的《Nine to Five》。

Nine to Five by Dolly Parton.

是的。

Yes.

就唱得难听点吧。

Sing it badly.

那种情况你懂的，虽然嗓子不算好，但我至少能跟上旋律。

It was one of those things you know what's nice is like, don't have a good voice, but I have like a I can like carry a tune.

我觉得我这嗓音当个搞笑角色刚好够用。

I think I have a good enough voice for a comedy person.

在全是女生的团体里特别好的一点是，明明有个人嗓音最突出，该她唱主旋律，可她们就是不答应。

And it was like that nice thing about being in a group of women because they're like, clearly one person should have all the solos, but they're like, no, no, no.

当然了。

Of course.

那样可不够意思。

That's not nice.

让敏迪唱个独唱吧。

Like, let Mindy have a solo.

所以我们那时候我会唱《九到五》。

So we would I would sing nine to five.

是的。

Yeah.

那个无伴奏合唱团叫什么名字？

And that acapella group's name was?

嘿，老兄。

Hey, man.

他们叫The Rocapillas。

It was called The Rocapillas.

明白了。

Okay.

我是真的特别喜欢双关语。

I mean, I just I love I love a pun.

他们叫The Rocapillas。

It's called The Rocapillas.

那时候，如果你是达特茅斯的女生，觉得最酷的团体就是他们。

At the time, it was considered to be the coolest the coolest group if you were a woman at Dartmouth.

那当然。

Of course.

依我看来，确实挺酷的。

And I mean, from my humble opinion, it was.

我觉得无伴奏合唱真的很酷。

I think acapella is very cool.

而且现在我觉得它很酷，因为

And also now I would say it is cool because

艾米，你这话说得也太扯了吧。

Amy, this is such a bunch of bullshit.

你在这儿也太客气了，

Like, you're being so nice here,

可实际上根本就没什么意思。

but it's so lame.

不是。

No.

不对。

No.

我不同意。

I disagree.

我不这么认为。

I don't.

原因在这儿。

Here's why.

因为就算在当时，我甚至不需要事后诸葛亮，任何敢于尝试的人

Because even then, I don't even mean in hindsight, anyone who tries something

对，好吧。

Yeah, okay.

那挺酷的。

That's cool.

我想，如果你用‘己所不欲，勿施于人’这个原则来看，大家都该勇敢表达自己，那确实挺好的。

I guess if you apply like the golden rule of like we should all be putting ourselves out there, then it is cool.

但要是有人整天瞎搞、胡言乱语，那就另当别论了。

It's But like when people being like shoopy doopy bebop.

就是说，那其实——

Like, that's

我懂。

I know.

这跟即兴表演是一回事。

It was the same thing improv.

就像即兴表演，你知道的，

Like like, improv, like, you know

短篇即兴表演。

Short form improv.

真难。

Tough.

回想我年轻的时候，大学里我暗恋的那些男生，都在玩短篇即兴表演。

And I again, on my formative years, some of the all the boys I had crushes on in college were doing like short form improv.

太糟糕了，真的太糟糕了。

Terrible, terrible.

可又觉得特别没劲。

And yet it's so lame.

不过长篇即兴表演倒是挺酷的。

Long form improv is cool though.

单口喜剧才是最酷的。

Stand up is the coolest.

那时候，要是你搞即兴或小品团体，总得准备些服装、假发，或者热身什么的。

Back then, like if you were an improv or sketch group, you'd have your like, costumes and wigs, or you'd be warming up and stuff like that.

说得对。

Okay.

你没错。

You're right.

阿卡贝拉和即兴表演，都得热身，通常都在外面。

Acapella and improv, both you have to warm up, like, usually outside.

你就在那儿zip zap地瞎闹腾。

You're like zip zap zopping.

这哪算什么酷的艺术啊。

It's not a cool And art I'd

我们会觉得自己很酷。

be like, we're cool.

但我后来看到单口喜剧演员，穿着皮夹克，直接把烟头往地上一扔，就上台了。

But then I'd see like a stand up just literally like throw their cigarette on the ground with a leather jacket and go on stage.

我当时就想，哦，原来如此。

And I'd be like, oh, okay.

你离开达特茅斯之后，是搬去纽约了吗？

After you left Dartmouth, did you move to New York?

我在纽约住了三年。

I lived in New York for three years.

好的。

Okay.

你之前还干过一些挺有意思的工作，我特别喜欢问别人这种稀奇古怪的兼职。

And you had some fun I always love to ask people about their fun jobs, like their weird jobs.

你确实干过不少怪有意思的活儿。

You had some good weird jobs.

对吧？

Right?

我干过不少特别怪的活儿。

I had some really good weird jobs.

都有哪些呢？

What were some

你那些怪工作都是啥？

of your weird jobs?

我最离谱的一份工作是给约翰·爱德华当助理，他是个通灵师，每次都在房间里给人做灵媒解读，能说准谁家过世的亲人想跟他们联系。

The weirdest job I had was that I was a PA crossing over with John Edward, the psychic And he would do readings in the room and be able to tell if someone had like a dead relative who was trying to contact them.

这工作有什么奇怪的？

What was weird about it?

所有这些吗？

All that?

我真不敢相信你会问这个。

I can't believe you're asking.

到底哪里

What was

你像……？

your like?

那你相信这个吗？你有没有过什么通灵方面的经历？

Now, you believe in Have you ever had a psychic experience?

你会去找通灵师吗？

Do you go to psychics?

我不去，不过我其实挺想去的。

I am not I don't go to psychics, but I would.

我也是。

Same.

而且我年纪越大，虽然懂得越多，却反而越迷信了。

And I've gotten As I've gotten older, even though I know more, I've gotten more superstitious

比我

than I

以前还要迷信。

used to be.

借用迈克尔·斯科特的话说，我不迷信，但我有点……

To quote Michael Scott, I'm not superstitious, but I am a

有点‘信’。

little 'stitious.

我总觉得，你知道的，玄学这东西分很多层次，就像瑞秋·德拉奇说的那种‘woo woo’的感觉，而且这跟你生活中愿不愿意接纳它有关。

I kind of feel like, you know, there's all different levels of like woo woo, as Rachel Dratch would say, like, and whether or not you're open to it in your life.

这其实挺像个悖论的，人们常说，你得特别开放，才能接收到那些东西，得把你的‘频道’打开才行。

And it is kind of a funny catch 22 where people are like, you have to be really open to it for it to like, you have to open your channel for it.

我星座是最倒霉的，九型人格里也是最差的数字。

I have the most losery astrological sign and the most losery number in the Enneagrams.

真的吗？

Wow.

我觉得挺有意思，因为九型人格里根本没什么‘倒霉’的数字。

I love to because there's no loser number in the Enneagram.

没错。

No.

那你觉得自己是倒霉的巨蟹座吗？

You have what to say would you think is I'm a loser Cancer

而我是六号。

and I'm six.

嗯，

Well,

但我觉得六号其实挺敏锐的。

but I would say six is very sharp.

六型啊，其实就是——

Like a six is like-

谢谢你，艾米。

Thank you, Amy.

我之前说过别——

I have said don't

对六型了解不多。

know that much about sixes.

是的。

Yeah.

因为呢，你知道——

Because it's, you know-

但六型是最常见的类型。

But it's the most common number.

真的吗？

It is?

是的。

Yeah.

我确实觉得这很准确。

I definitely think it's accurate.

是的。

Yeah.

我感觉被理解了。

I feel seen.

我还没能实际用它来改善我的生活。

I haven't been able to use it practically to make my life better.

发你一些有趣的动图，或者你怎么说都行。

Send you some fun GIFs or GIFs, however you like to say.

好啊。

Great.

我打算发一些动图。

I'm gonna send some GIFs or GIFs.

我给你发一些超有趣的九型人格六号表情包，你一定会喜欢。

Send you some fun Enneagram six GIFs and GIFs that you're gonna love.

我觉得它们跟《哈利·波特》里的学院特别像，你知道吧，大家都说我是。

I think they're a lot like the Harry Potter homes, you know, everyone's like, I'm

格兰芬多。

a Gryffindor.

你属于《哈利·波特》里的哪个学院？

What's your Harry Potter thing?

对啊。

Right.

我就是纯粹的斯莱特林。

I'm a straight up Slytherin.

哇，这太酷了。

Dude, that's cool.

斯莱特林真的很酷。

Slytherin is cool.

我真希望自己是斯莱特林的。

I wish I was a Slytherin.

那你呢？

What are you?

我本来想当格兰芬多，但算了，我觉得我是赫奇帕奇，这样也挺好。

Wanna be a Gryffindor, but no, I think I'm a Hufflepuff, which is also fine.

我想反驳你，但你听我说。

I wanna refute it, but listen.

行吧。

All right.

我说了，我这就回你。

Say, I'm right back at you.

好。

Okay.

不过咱们还是回到刚才那个话题。

But back to Okay.

你之前做过一些挺有意思的工作，但我现在想聊聊马特和本，那档节目我记得很清楚，对没看过的人来讲，马特和本到底是什么？

So you had some interesting jobs, but I wanna talk about Matt and Ben for a second because that show was, I remember when that show For people that don't know, what was Matt and Ben?

是的。

Yes.

好吧。

Okay.

那时候我正在给人当保姆，

So I was babysitting at

那会儿，

the

我朋友是个代课老师，就是你公立学校的代课老师，叫布伦达。

time, and my friend was a substitute teacher, and your public school substitute teacher, my friend Brenda.

我们俩那时候都挺郁闷的。

And we were kinda miserable.

我申请过NBC的实习生项目，本来觉得自己肯定能被录取，结果没成。

And I had applied to be a page at the NBC page program, and I was certain I was gonna get it, and then I didn't.

那时候我们就是那种低落的状态，9·11之后，工作上也没什么盼头。

And so we were just kind of like low level depressed post nine eleven just like in jobs.

我干嘛非得待在纽约呢？

Like, why am I even in New York?

我根本接触不到任何机会。

Like, I have no access to anything.

于是我们开始即兴发挥，我模仿起了所谓的本·阿弗莱克——毕竟我们根本一点都不了解他们。

And we started just improvising and I kind of adopted this character of like Ben Affleck in quotations because obviously we didn't know them at all.

她则演马特·达蒙。

And she did Matt Damon.

我们就这样演着，一演就是十来分钟，甚至十五分钟。

And then we were like, we'd just be doing these characters for like ten, fifteen minutes.

我们就开始想，这能不能做成点正经事，而不只是自己找乐子？

And we're like, could we do something with this actually as opposed to just like entertaining ourselves?

可她所有的朋友都觉得这太傻了。

And all of her friends thought it was so stupid.

是的

Yeah.

很好

Great.

于是我们决定写一个小剧，讲朋友之间创作过程中的竞争，这话题我其实一直很感兴趣。

And we Great said, like, let's write a little play about the creative process between friends and competition, which has been interesting to me for a long, long time.

就是那种彼此深爱，却又暗自较劲的朋友之间的竞争。

And competition between friends who you dearly love each other, but you're also looking out for yourself.

那时候我们才二十一二岁，却在写我们想象中，二十出头的马特·达蒙和本·阿弗莱克会是什么样子。

And we were we were 21 or 22 writing about what we imagined Matt Damon and Ben Affleck were when they were 21, 22.

简直疯了。

It's so psychotic.

要是我是马特·达蒙或者本·阿弗莱克，我肯定觉得这太离谱了。

Like, if I was Matt Damon and Ben Affleck, I'd be like, this is Have

你有跟他们聊过这事吗？

you ever talked to them about it?

我见过

I have met

我见过马特·达蒙一次，是的。

Matt Damon once Mhmm.

本·阿弗莱克我见过几次。

And Ben Affleck like a handful of times.

我觉得他们觉得这挺奇怪的。

And I think they think it's weird.

这可是个真人啊。

This is a real person.

他们一直都很友善。

They've been been nothing but gracious.

当然了。

Of course.

真是挺奇怪的。

Very strange thing.

要是有人演话剧，把明迪·卡林的角色给演了，我可不会客气。

I would not be nice if someone was playing Mindy Kaling in a play.

我会让我的律师去收拾他们。

I would try to destroy them with my lawyers.

我的律师团队会扑上去，把他们彻底碾碎。

My team of lawyers would descend upon them and crush them.

不过话说回来，也得承认他们做得不错，而且本也演了

But to their credit, and Ben played

你呢？

you?

那应该会挺有意思的。

That would be pretty fun.

我会让我的律师团队把他彻底搞定。

I'd I'd try to crush him with my lawyers.

这招挺聪明的。

That's smart.

是的。

Yeah.

直接发个停止函吧，宝贝。

Just cease and desist, babe.

干脆

Just straight

直接走人。

away.

比如把剧院的门用挂锁锁上。

Like go padlock the theater door.

我要把你那些好会计挣的钱全踢出去。

I'm gonna kick all that good accountant money from you.

连会计一起算上。

And the accountant too.

我记得当时我就想，这太激进了。

I remember even at the time I was like, this is radical.

因为那正是两个年轻女性在揣摩，像马特和本这样的年轻男性，一起工作、共同面对生活时心里会想些什么。

Because it was exactly, it was like two young women kind of assuming what would be like in the heads of like, you know, they were Matt and Ben were archetypes for just like young men like working together and figuring out life together.

我记得你们拍这部剧的时候，我就觉得这太突破了。

And I remember you guys making that show, and I was like, this is radical.

这简直让人惊叹。

This is like Oh my god.

确实太

That's so

没错。

It was.

真的很酷。

It was very cool.

谢谢你这么说。

Well, thank you for saying it.

能不用在意外表，真的让人特别自由。

I mean, it was so liberating to not have to worry about being pretty.

我们当时穿得像男人一样。

Like we were dressed as men.

是的。

Yeah.

显然，我们并不是第一个玩这种风格的，但能真正体验一把扮男人的乐趣，真的很过瘾。

It was obviously, we didn't invent camp, but we got to discover how fun it was to just play men but really real.

对。

Yeah.

而且特别自在，完全不用操心那些同龄人纠结的事，毕竟剧本是我们写的，导演也是自己来。

And it was great to just we didn't have to worry about any of the things that our contemporaries were kind of worrying about because we wrote the script, we directed it ourselves.

没错。

Yeah.

后来是去了边缘电影节，对吧？

It went to like Fringe, right,

埃德·蒙罗？

Ed Monroe?

所以我们是在边缘艺术节上演的。

So we did it at the Fringe Festival.

我们成功入选了边缘艺术节。

We got into the Fringe Festival.

我们在边缘艺术节拿了奖，之后就搬到了百老汇外的剧场。

We won the Fringe Festival, then it moved off Broadway.

那时候才开始有人注意到这部剧。

And that's when it started getting, like, attention.

那时候有几位名人特意来看了演出。

That's when, like, a couple celebrities came and saw it.

也就是从那时起，它才搬到洛杉矶，我也因此得到了《办公室》的工作机会。

And that's how it moved to LA and how I got hired on The Office.

你从马特和

You go from Matt and

本，一下子变成了《办公室》编剧室里唯一的女性。

Ben to basically being the only woman in a writer's room at The Office.

你是那个房间里唯一的女性，也是唯一的女性有色人种，而那群男性个个聪明绝顶、才华横溢又待人友善，但那毕竟是你的第一份工作。

You are the only woman and the only woman of color in an incredibly smart, hyper talented, and nice group of men, but still it is your first job.

是的。

Yeah.

你是从那个圈子里出来的。

I mean, you come from that world.

那地方竞争激烈。

It's competitive.

所以我觉得，当时走进那个房间，现在很多人可能会说，真不敢相信你居然能进《办公室》剧组。

And it's like And so I think that going into that room, like a lot of people now will be like, wow, I can't believe you got hired in the office.

你当时那么年轻。

You were so young.

你一定感觉特别棒。

You must feel so great.

而我回头看那些和我一起工作的人，他们从21岁就开始干了，早就拿过艾美奖了。

And you were like looking And when I look at the people who were I was working with, they had been working since they were 21, you know, and had already had Emmys.

所以我还是觉得自己落后了。

So I still felt like I was behind.

不过我也得说，我简直是个工作狂。

So I think, but I will say also, like, I was such a workaholic.

幸好我在洛杉矶没什么朋友，也没什么爱好，整天就埋头工作。

It helped that I was like friendless in Los Angeles and had no hobbies because I was just obsessed with work.

我被迈克、B.J.、保罗·利伯斯坦、格雷格这些人深深吸引，你知道的。

I was dazzled by like Mike, BJ, Paul Lieberstein, Greg, you know?

换谁不被吸引呢？

And who wouldn't be?

我以前从来没进过编剧室。

Like, I had never been in a writer's room.

结果我跟这些家伙一起工作，他们直到今天都被认为是顶尖的喜剧编剧。

And then I'm with these guys who are like, even to this day, considered some of the very best comedy writers.

后来还有李·艾森伯格、吉恩·斯蒂普尼茨基，同样让人惊叹。

Then later, like Lee Eisenberg, Gene Stipnitsky, like, just as dazzling.

是的

Yeah.

所以我特别想给他们留下好印象。

And so I really wanted to impress them.

是的

Yeah.

我还真想和其中一些人约会。

I really wanted to date some of them.

是的

Yeah.

没错

Right.

我在这些行业里的成功程度各不相同。

And I was varying degrees of successful in those industries.

当

And when

Kelly Kapoor，那个角色是这么写的吗？你是怎么发现自己要参演这部剧的？

Kelly Kapoor, was that written like, how did how did you find out you were gonna

我是怎么拿到这个角色的？我觉得BJ写了一集叫《多样性日》的剧本。

be on the show?

然后

The way that I got the part was I think BJ had written this episode called Diversity Day.

对

And

我觉得这是《办公室》里最好笑的一集之一。

one of I think one of the funniest episodes in The Office ever.

太精彩了。

Incredible.

然后格雷格决定把它放在第二集。

And Greg decided that it would be the second episode.

为了让这一集好笑，比如迈克尔·斯科特冒犯了一屋子的人，如果全是白人，那就不那么好笑了，你得冒犯到一些人。

And in order for it to be funny that, like, Michael Scott was offending a room of people, it didn't wasn't as funny if it was just like all white, like you needed to be offending some people.

所以我特别幸运，作为印度裔能进编剧室，他当时就问：你要不要演一个被他冒犯然后被打的人？

And so I was so lucky to be in the writer's room and being Indian because he's like, would you play someone that he offends and then slaps him?

其实我只想着能当一辈子喜剧编剧就心满意足了。

And I was I mean, I was just content to be a comedy writer for the rest of my life.

这简直是我梦想成真。

That was like my dream come true.

能上镜头，简直太不可思议了。

So to be on camera was like just like outrageous.

我觉得《办公室》最突破的一点是，那时候在电视剧里，你根本不用非得是个标准意义上的美女。

The one thing I think is so groundbreaking about The Office was that at that time, the odds, to be on a show where you didn't have to be like a straightforwardly hot woman.

对。

Yes.

关键就在于，这其实是格雷格·丹尼尔斯的风格。

Like the whole point is, you know, and this is a real Greg Daniels thing.

真正美的，是真实的东西。

It's like, what is beautiful is what is real.

是的。

Yes.

那时候这样的节目可不多。

And that wasn't very many shows.

没错。

That's right.

我也特别喜欢，我相信你也有同感。

That's I also like love, and I'm sure you feel this way too.

其实你可能不这么觉得，但我超爱当个网络迷因。

Actually, maybe you don't, but I love being a meme.

这让我觉得自己还年轻。

It makes me feel young.

你开玩笑吧？

Are you kidding me?

别人给我发梗的时候，我简直梦寐以求，我甚至想过，我能主动发自己的梗给别人吗？

It's my dream when people send me Like, I've actually been like, can I send people my own memes?

快去吧。

Oh, do it.

这简直太

It's such

可能会出大问题。

a It big might drop.

再没有比这更高的赞美了。

It is There's no higher compliment.

我老是把凯莉说‘今天简直疯了’这段话做成表情包发给戴夫和艾克。

I send people memes of Kelly saying this day is bananas all day long to Dave and Ike

把凯莉和卡普尔相提并论，在我看来，就是年轻人说的那种自带主角光环的人。

I mean, reference Kelly to Kapoor is the, to me, the definition of what the young people would say, like someone who has main character energy.

她确实有那种

Like, she does have She

她活在自己的世界里，自己的剧里。

is in her own world, her own show, and in that show.

当个有趣的人挺好的

It's fun to be

我觉得她虽然是个配角，但给人的感觉完全是个主角

and nice I think to be, you know, she is a tertiary character but believe she's a main character.

这真的特别棒

That's like a really nice.

她每三集才说一句话

She has one line every three episodes.

对啊

Yeah.

她总活在自己的激烈戏码和戏剧里

She's in her own very like intense play and drama forever.

一部好剧会慢慢发现角色的特质，然后顺势去强化这些特点，写作者也会意识到这一点

And then the show does like, I would say like any good character, like the show, like, you know, and you know from writing, like you start to realize like what people's strengths are and you start to write to it.

剧集渐渐明白，凯莉擅长的就是那种充满竞争感的幻想世界，所以我们才老让她投三分球——毕竟大家就是喜欢看这个

The show starts to realize like, oh, what Kelly can do is like be in this kind of fierce competitive fantasy world that can allow us to like like, you shoot a lot of threes in that show because you like Thank you.

这个角色能展现出特别尖锐又搞笑的一面。

They that that character is able to go to some really sharp and funny places.

她觉得自己是办公室里最性感的人。

Well, she thinks she's the hottest person at the office.

是的。

Yeah.

真替帕姆感到可怜。

Like feels bad for Pam.

她确实如此。

She is.

而且觉得瑞安是个绝佳的对象。

You know, and thinks like Ryan's a huge catch.

还认为自己注定会出名。

And that she's like destined for you know, fame.

所以演这种自以为是的角色特别有意思。

And so that is a fun I mean, it's so fun to play like delusional characters.

是的

Yeah.

然后能在《明迪计划》里演另一个完全不同的妄想型角色，也挺好的。

And then to be able to then be delusional on the Mindy project with a different character was Okay.

不错。

Good.

这正好带出我想说的，你写的《办公室》剧集比谁都多。

That's a good segue because you go from you I just wanna say you ended up writing more Office episodes than anybody else.

谢谢你这么说。

Thank you for saying that.

明白。

Okay.

这点大家都知道一下。

So everybody needs to know that.

所以你们所有喜欢的、每晚都在看的《办公室》剧集，有很大概率

So all your Office episodes that you love, that everybody's watching every night, there's high probability

你这么说，Mindy的公关团队还特意提醒我，说这是个必须传达的关键点，Amy。

You're that saying Mindy wrote like my publicist was like, this is a talking point that needs to come across, Amy.

我的意思是，跟你聊这个我永远都聊不腻，可能听起来太圈内了，但你当初入行的时候，就是以编剧身份进来的。

I mean, I could talk about this with you forever, maybe it's too kind of inside baseball, but the way you enter the business, you entered the business as a writer.

就在那段时间，你又开始演戏，同时还当起了制片人。

And then like in that same time became a performer and you're also a producer.

这三重身份各有各的利弊。

And all those things have like different pros and cons.

你真的是为了Mindy这部剧才这么做的。

You really did do it for Mindy.

你当时就说：我要自己写、自己创、自己主演这部剧。

Created you were like, I'm gonna write, create, and star in this show.

这绝对是件最难的事。

And there's there's nothing harder.

确实没有比这更难的了。

There's nothing harder.

再也没有比这更让人满足的了。

And there's nothing more gratifying.

对。

Yeah.

我当时简直着了魔。

Like, I was so obsessed with it.

而且我之前在那家公司待了八年，每集都有我的戏份。

Mean, and then coming from the office where I had been there for eight years, had like a line every episode.

我最近在想，比如拍摄表这类事。

You know, I was thinking about like, recently, just like call sheets.

是的。

Yeah.

对不了解的人解释一下，拍摄表其实就是每天公布整个制作团队的等级排序。

And to be like the call sheet for people who don't know, but they might know is, you know, it's every day it just announces the hierarchy of the production.

我特别喜欢看拍摄表。

I love a call sheet so much.

是的。

Yeah.

如果有人不了解，我都能一直盯着看。

I could stare at it forever for people that don't know.

这张纸能告诉你一整天、一整周、一整月，甚至在很多方面，告诉你整个人生。

It's one piece of paper that tells you your entire day, week, month, and in many ways, your life.

你说得一点都没错。

You're exactly right.

它告诉你谁是第一主角，谁是第二，第三，第四。

It tells you who is number one, who is number two, who is number three, who is number four.

它列出了现场所有人的重要程度，按顺序排下来。

It lists the importance and descending order of the people that are there.

所以那部剧拍了这么多年，显而易见，史蒂夫排第一，演迈克尔·斯科特，凯莉排第十一。

And so for years on that show, as is obvious and and should be, like, Steve is number one playing Michael Scott, and Kelly is number 11.

对。

Mhmm.

那时候哪能想到，就说第一季，我纯粹是运气好，第二集就能跟史蒂夫同框，还能加入演员工会，真的演上戏了。

And it's not like, you know, to come at the we just talked about the first season when I was just lucky to have that first, you know, in episode two, being able to be in that scene with Steve and to be able to be in SAG and be able to actually do all that.

这事儿可太重要了。

That's huge.

但八年之后，是啊，排第十一确实有点腻了。

But eight years later Yeah.

我就想，能不能换个角色，多说点台词。

I was like, number 11 gets a little old.

我真的特别想试试，到底当一个节目的笑点核心是什么感觉。

And I was like, I really wanna see what it's like to literally just have more lines.

是啊。

Yeah.

还想试试能不能扛起整部剧的喜剧节奏。

And to be able to take on the thing of like being the comedy engine of a show.

我跟艾克聊过很多次这个，我觉得你在《公园与游憩》里，还有在《周六夜现场》的时候，应该也经历过类似的事。

And I, you know, I talked to Ike a lot about this, and I think you did this with Parks and probably on SNL too.

但说实话，能当情景喜剧的主角，并且从早上七点开工到收工，全程保持高能量输出，这真是一项本事。

But like, it's a skill to be able to be the star of a sitcom and come in and just be like, my engine is on from 07:00 in the morning until we wrap.

对。

Yeah.

而且我得想办法激发出其他人最好的状态，还得在早上第一时间就把他们叫醒。

And I am just like, had to bring the best out of other people and wake them up first thing

在早上。

in the morning.

有点像那种常驻主持人。

And kinda like a constant host.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

而且就是，你……

And it's And you

一整天都看着人们陆续离开。

were watching people leave all day.

那正是

That was the

另一件事，那可是周五晚上啊。

other thing that was so That's Friday night.

你只是不停地挥手告别。

You're just waving

大家都说：周末愉快。

And everyone's they're like, have a good weekend.

你也一样。

You're like, you too.

这简直是最让人伤感的道别了。

Like, it's just the saddest goodbye.

但与此同时，

But at the same time,

我觉得那几天过得特别快，比我在办公室坐班的时候快多了。

I felt like the days were so much shorter than when I had one line at the office.

对。

Yeah.

因为一天下来全是搞笑的片段，时间不知不觉就过去了。

Like the day flows by because it's just like funny scene after funny scene.

整个部门的人都在那儿帮你把工作做到最好。

Entire departments who are there to help you do your job the best.

对。

Yeah.

你懂的？

You know?

那真的是一种巨大的快乐。

And that was like such a joy.

说到成为自己生活的主角，这一点再明显不过了。

And it's so obvious to say this about being a star of your own show.

但对我来说，那就是我一直渴望的，能够组建自己的编剧团队。

But like that was it was what I was longing for and to assemble my own writing staff.

是的。

Yeah.

其中很多人，比如兰格·费舍尔、特蕾西·威格菲尔德、艾克、戴夫，还有尤阿伦，

So many of whom like Lang Fisher, Tracy Wigfield, Ike, Dave You are on

以及马特·沃伯顿。

a Matt Warburton.

现在的新节目。

New show right now.

《四季与蒂娜》。

Four Seasons with Tina.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

能和这些让我变得更好、给我启发的人一起工作，真是太好了。

And so to be able to work with all these people that made me better, inspired me.

咱们聊聊我们的朋友艾克吧，

And Let's talk about our friend Ike,

巴伦霍尔特，他当时也在那儿，你在这档节目里见过他。

Barenholt who was here and who you met on that show.

是的。

Yeah.

还有戴夫·斯塔森。

And Dave Stassen.

这些人啊，就说艾克吧，他现在正听着呢。

Those guys are I mean, let's just Ike is Ike is listening.

咱们得说点好听的夸夸他。

So we should say something nice about him.

咱们确实该夸夸他。

We should say something nice about him.

瞧我们，还特意照顾这位白人兄弟

Look at us making sure that the white guy

让他感觉被妥善对待

is taken care of.

让他感到安心

Feel comfortable

而且被看见

and seen.

看看我们自己

Look at us.

就是因为他这个人就是这样，他会为咱们做这种事

It's just because, you know, his personality is that, like, he would he would do that for us.

他真的会这么做

He would.

还有件事，你之前提到《明迪计划》，其实从很多方面来说，这都是对妈妈的一种致敬

The other thing is that I love that you've spoken about with Mindy Project is like in many ways, it is a tribute to your mom.

是的。

Yeah.

而且因为你妈妈是妇产科护士，医生。

And because your mom is an OBGYN nurse, doctor.

医生，对。

Doctor, yeah.

不好意思。

Sorry.

妇产科医生。

OB GYN doctor.

对印度人来说，这差别可大了。

For Indian people, that's a huge distinction.

懂的。

Know.

我刚才是不是突然跑来打扰你了？

Was so Did I just come for you now?

不是。

No.

好吧。

Okay.

因为她并不是那种正式的医生。

So she because she wasn't a doctor doctor.

她确实是医生。

She was a doctor.

她是女医生。

She was a woman doctor.

当然，当然。

Surely, surely.

她当时在做记录，而那位男医生

She was taking notes and the male doctor

对，男医生会进来，是的。

was Yeah, male doctor would come in and Yeah.

宝宝？不是，但你这个角色其实是在向她和你妈妈致敬。

The baby No, but your character was kind of a tribute to her and your mom.

你能聊聊你妈妈吗？

Can you speak a little bit about your mom?

你总是提到她，她真的……

You spoke you speak about her all the time and she's

我特别喜欢聊我妈妈的事。

I so loved just talked to about my mom.

《明迪烦事多》里的那个角色，和我妈妈的性格简直天差地别。

So the character on The Mindy Project, I mean, couldn't have been more different than my mom's personality.

但我特别享受扮演妇产科医生的这个世界。

But I loved the world of playing an OB GYN.

我妈妈性格特别好，她整天跟女性打交道，听她们倾诉最私密的事——关于感情、生育的期望，还有各种各样的烦恼。

My mom's had such a great personality because she spent her entire day with women, telling who told her the most personal things about their love lives and reproductive hopes and just everything and all their problems.

这是一种非常私密的关系。

It's such a personal relationship.