蒂娜·菲

然后就想起，哦，对了。

And it's like oh right.

比如你是个漂亮的女演员，来自什么《墨尔罗斯广场》之类的剧集，随便吧。

Like if you're a beautiful actress from I don't know like Melrose Place, just whatever.

你只是个漂亮的女演员，偶尔去趟超市都没事，但如果你是喜剧演员，就必须每次都要爆笑全场？

Like you're just a beautiful actress you can go on and be like I went to the store once but if you're a comedy person you have to kill every time?

是的。

Yeah.

天哪。

Oh god.

你有没有过

Have you ever

我的意思是，我觉得我知道答案，但我从来没真正在试镜中拿到过角色。

I mean I think I know the answer to this but I feel like I've never really gotten a job from an audition ever.

你有没有过那种感觉，去试镜一个角色，表现得特别棒，觉得自己稳了？

You feel like you've gone into an audition for something and nailed it and been like I got it.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

从来没有。

Never.

因为说实话，我的简历并不怎么吸引人。

Because again I'm not really so interesting on paper.

我记得在芝加哥参加商业广告试镜的时候，那时候我们有一些朋友，芝加哥当时是商业广告的繁荣之地。

Like I remember going to commercial auditions in Chicago and we had friends at that time Chicago was a thriving town for commercials.

我不知道现在是不是还这样，但那时有很多大型广告公司总部设在那里，他们会在芝加哥拍摄广告。

I don't know if it still is, but there were, you know, huge ad agencies were based there, and they would shoot things in Chicago.

我们当时在第二城市剧院一起工作的很多人，都能接到很多工作，足以支撑他们一整年的开销。

And a lot of people that we worked with at Second City would get a lot of work that would pay for their whole year.

你知道的？

You know?

我做过一点配音工作。

I did a little bit of voice over work.

我有一个寻呼机。

I had a pager.

你还记得那时候寻呼机响个不停吗？我的寻呼机一直在响。

Remember you'd have a pager be like, guys my page is blowing up.

我可能得去市中心参加一个配音试镜。

I might have a voice over audition downtown.

我得走了。

I gotta go.

芝加哥有一位商业选角导演，我不点名了，他当时负责商业广告选角，而我的牙齿有点不整齐。

There was a casting director in Chicago who shall not be named who was a commercial casting director and I had kind of wonky teeth.

所以那时候我们去试镜时，还记得那个词叫‘露齿笑’吗？

So it was this kind of thing where we'd go out for this remember the term bite and smile?

是的。

Yes.

所以你会假装咬一口汉堡，然后露出微笑。

So you'd pretend a bite into a hamburger and then be like you'd smile.

是的，如果你能接到这样的广告，可能会改变你的生活。

Yeah and it was it could change your life if you got

你可以用这笔钱支付三年的低租金。

a You could pay for like three years of your low rent.

是的，我立刻意识到，以我的牙齿状况，根本不可能接到这种咬汉堡露齿笑的广告，没有任何品牌会愿意和我的牙齿挂钩。

Yeah and I knew right away that with my teeth I was never gonna get a bite and smile like there's no way a brand would be associated with my teeth.

这位选角导演为了了解大家，会问他们：你最尴尬的时刻是什么？哦，对，没错，是的。

And this casting director just to get to know people would ask them what's your most embarrassing moment to Oh get yeah you yes yeah.

当时我紧张得要命，但我还是说：不用了，谢谢。

And I had a full like I got probably nervous in that moment but I was like no thank you.

我不愿意告诉她我最尴尬的时刻。

I like didn't want to tell her my most embarrassing moment.

是的，顺便说一句，这简直太疯狂了。

Yeah, which by the way that's insane.

这就像我们试图向年轻人解释九十年代时的一个微小版本——那时候，如果有人在职场里问你这种问题，那个女士几乎肯定会因此被解雇，甚至要上法庭受审。

Like that's a tiny micro version of when we try to explain the nineties to younger people of, like, how so many things if you're like, oh, that lady would literally be fired and tried in front of a jury for asking you that in the workplace.

我也有过类似‘咬一口、微笑’的经历，那是去麦当劳试镜。

I had a a bite and smile type thing where it was a McDonald's audition.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且每件事总是这样，好吧。

And and everything always was like, okay.

所以你要坐两趟地铁，再换别的交通工具，跑到很远的地方去参加试镜。

So take, you know, two trains and a thing and get way out to wherever this audition is.

然后你到了那里，那场试镜是为一种新的欢乐餐或得来速套餐做的。

And then you get there and you and it was for some new kind of happy or drive through meal, whatever.

我一路赶到那里，进入试镜现场时才意识到，这个广告是关于一个人开车到得来速窗口的，而我左边脸上有一道疤痕，虽然现在淡了很多，但当时非常明显。

And I went all the way to the thing and I got there and I realized as we were going into the session like oh this this commercial is for a person pulling into a drive through and I have this you know scar on the left side of my face that's way faded now, but it was much more prominent then.

就像牙齿的问题一样，我想：‘猜猜谁不会被选中去开车到得来速窗口呢？——短发、头顶烫着卷发、脸上还带着大疤痕的人。’

Was like, similar to the teething, I was like, guess who's not gonna book this pulling up to the drive through with my short hair with the perm on top and a big scar.

所以我只记得当时坐在那里，假装自己在drive thru，说：‘我要一份鱼排套餐，我的疤痕配一杯橙色汽水。’

And, and so I just remember in the thing just being up, like, pulling into the chair, like scooting like I'm in the drive thru being like, I'll have the fish fillet meal and my scar will have an orange soda.

然后就直接走了。

And then just leaving.

你当时心想，你不会

You were like, you're not

要

going to

拒绝我吧。

reject me.

拒绝你。

Going reject you.

拒绝

Going

我们到底在这儿干什么？

It's like, what are we doing here?

我单程要花四十五分钟旅行。

I traveled forty five minutes each way.

我的意思是，我们在一起时经常谈论工作。

I mean we talk about work a lot when we're together.

我觉得我们合作得非常好。

I think we work together really well.

你对工作的态度是什么？它有改变吗？

What is your relationship to work and has it changed?

我觉得它已经改变了。

I think it has changed.

我是一个以工作为导向的人。

I am a work based person.

如果我是动物，我想我会像一匹拉车的马。

If I were an animal, I would be like a carriage horse, I think.

你知道吗，有人说，哦，不，某些种类的狗，如果不让它们工作，它们会发疯。

You know how they say, oh, no, these or some kinds of dogs, no, they want to work or they'll go insane.

所以，我想我就是这种动物。

So I am I am that kind of animal, I think.

但我也最近才意识到，因为我过去几十年一直如此：每天上班十二到十三个小时，回家后还要陪家人，直到他们睡着，然后你又得去写作业。

But I also I have just just recently really recently found that I have because I went through such a stretch for so many decades where it was like you go to work for twelve to thirteen hours and then you come home and you know you try to be with your family till they go to sleep and then you're like then you gotta do your homework.

在过去一两年里，我才偶尔有了这样的空档：今晚不用写作业。

And I've only in the last year or two had windows of time where like I don't have homework tonight.

我可以只是作为一个普通人活着，也许看看节目。

I can just be a person in this world and maybe, like, watch a program.

你能在那一刻真正享受吗？

Do you feel like you can actually enjoy it in that moment?

我可以。

I can.

不过，你知道，我想任何其他作家也会这么说，我所能感受到的最接近喜悦与平静的时刻，就是交稿后三十六小时左右。

Although, it's still you know, I think any other writer would say this too that the all the closest I can get to joy and peace is, like, the thirty six hours after I've turned something in.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为那是你唯一感到自己其实没有作业的时候，但我仍然是匹非常优秀的好马，毕竟我完成了工作。

Because that's the only time when you're like, I didn't, I really, I don't have any homework but I'm still a very good, good carriage horse because I did my work.

是的。

Yes.

但三十六个小时后，那种感觉又悄悄回来了：好吧，我马上就要收到反馈了，或者

And then after like thirty six hours it creeps back in of like, okay, I'm gonna get notes back or

我

I

该跳到下一件事了。

should go skip ahead to the next thing.

不过我要说，今年秋天我重回剧组工作，这是很久以来的第一次，我努力打造了一个真正健康、人性化的拍摄环境，能和其他人一起工作、一起创作，感觉真好。

I will say though I did go back to work this fall, on a set for the first time in a long time, and it was actually and I and I worked hard to build it to be a really healthy set and really, humane hours and it was nice to be, among other humans and making something.

我还特意挑选了我认为是好人、不会给我惹麻烦的人一起合作。

I also was extremely purposeful about bringing together people who I believed were good people who would not make any trouble for me.

对。

Yes.

这真的带来了很大的不同。

And it really made a difference.

我觉得这就是成功。

I feel like that's success.

对。

Right.

成功。

Success

这是一种奢侈。

That's a luxury.

能够意识到我只想和那些我知道不会认为混乱才是创造力体现的人合作。

Is getting to be to realize I only, if I can, wanna work with people who I know will not think that chaos is how to be creative.

这才是创造力的方式。

It's how to be creative.

而且，你知道，就像很多TikTok上的故事一样，我们就不具体说了，但人们听到电影片场的情况后，都觉得这太疯狂了。

And, you know, I think as so many TikTok stories, we won't go into which ones, but people are, like, hearing about movie sets and being like, that's crazy.

那里发生了什么？

What's happening there?

我当时想，这也没那么疯狂。

I was like, that's not that crazy.

就像，没错。

Like, that's Yeah.

尤其是电影，基本上就是关于人们发疯、表现失控，而有一两个人试图捕捉这些人的行为并将其剪辑成一部电影。

Pretty like, movies especially are about just people going crazy and acting out and then one or two people trying to harvest a series of photographs of those people that can be assembled into a film.

但大部分时候，都是那些行为不端的疯子在被

But it's mostly poorly behaved crazy people being indulged by

各种人纵容。我们曾经在一些地方工作过，这也不是什么大秘密，比如《周六夜现场》就是其中之一，人们带着自己偏好的工作方式进来，当他们紧张或不安全时，往往表现不出最佳状态，他们的行为会很疯狂，因为他们紧张或缺乏安全感。

various And we have seen and worked at places and this is no you know big scoop like SNL is one of them where people come in with their system of how they like to work and they're like people when they're nervous or insecure are often not at their best and the way they act is wild because they're nervous or insecure.

是的，不安全感会让人们行为失控。

Yeah people get insecurity makes people behave wildly.

我甚至开始意识到，关于工作关系，我现在明白，当我必须写作时，我会变得非常烦躁和紧张。

I even have learned to realize that we talk about relationship to work that I have now learned that I get very, very grouchy and nervous when something has to be written.

因为这就像得了肠胃炎一样。

Because it is like having a stomach flu.

嗯。

Mhmm.

你会觉得，这是一种生病前的感觉，要么通过这种方式排出来，要么通过另一种方式。

And you're like, it's the sick you feel before you either eject it one way or the other.

就像这样，它必须从一端排出去。

It's like and it just really It's gotta come out one end.

烦躁不安，直到它排出来。

Grouchy until it comes out.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我至少能意识到这个模式，但它并不能阻止事情发生，我只是想：好吧，现在发生的是这个。

And I can at least see that pattern but doesn't prevent it from happening but I'm like okay here's what's happening.

当我不觉得有强有力的领导者时，我也有这种感觉。

I feel that way about when I'm in a situation where I don't feel like there's a strong leader.

就像在一种情况下，我被一个自己都不太清楚该做什么的人指挥，或者根本没人告诉我们该做什么，没人掌控局面，这时我会变得烦躁，感觉要么我得自己接手，要么就得放弃、退出。我参与过几个项目，第一周我就觉得天啊，我们没有船长，这艘船要沉了，而且你能预见未来几个月都会这样。

Like where I'm being directed by someone who doesn't quite know what they're doing or there's but there's no one telling us what to do like there's no one in control I have that grouchiness where I feel like I'm going to I'm either gonna have to take over here or I'm gonna have to dislike you know check out yeah And I've been in a couple projects where like week one I'm like oh no like we don't have a captain like this ship is going down and you can see months ahead.

是的。

Yep.

那你呢？我都不知道你怎么应对，你是不是就只是在房车里看些搞笑视频？

How do you yeah I don't even know how do you you just kind of I guess you just watch funny videos in your trailer?

是的，我觉得其中一种方式就是你干脆关闭自己。

Yeah I think the one way is yeah you shut down.

而且

And

另一种方式就是你笨拙地试图接管，让别人感到不舒服。

the other way is you try to clumsily take over and make people uncomfortable.

是的，只有这两种选择。

Yeah those are the only two are the only two options.

确实如此。

They really are.

我知道。

I know.

但是等等。

But like, hold on.

我要去涂一下润唇膏。

I'm going to take a lip balm break.

去吧。

Do it up.

因为我的嘴唇很干。

Because I need my lips are dry.

本节目由润唇膏赞助。

This is brought to you by Lip Balm.

润唇膏这个概念。

The concept of lip balm.

润唇膏基金会。

The Lip Balm Foundation.

在各个地方推广所有润唇膏。

Promoting all lip balms everywhere.

我的意思是，我想这就是友谊——让你的朋友

I mean I guess this is friendship is letting your friend

我知道这个，因为我有个中学生。

use I know about this because I have a middle schooler.

我爱Laneige。

I love Laneige.

我的意思是，问题是，你对一个人的了解要到什么程度

Mean the question is like how well do you have

才能做到这样？我的意思是我并不想这么做。

to know someone with this I mean I'm not trying to do that.

好吧，你不想吗？

Just Okay you don't want to?

我不想。

I don't want to.

有意思。

Interesting.

好吧，我会考虑一下。

Well I'll think about that.

一整天都这样。

That all day.

你根本没涂上去这个事实。

The fact that you didn't put it on.

我怕它会把那点颜色蹭掉。

I'm afraid it will wipe off what little colors like.

但你也不是洁癖患者。

But you're not a germaphobe.

我不是。

I'm not

我不是洁癖患者，而且我觉得别人有洁癖是真的很不吸引人。

a germaphobe and I think it's a real unattractive quality in someone else when they're like a germaphobe.

尤其是在男人身上。

Especially in a man.

男人身上这简直是不可接受的。

In a man it is such a deal breaker.

比如一个担心不握手的男人。

Like a man who's worried about like I don't shake hands.

一个男人。

A man.

去握手吧。

Go shake hands

然后去洗手吧，你这个怪人。

and then go wash your hands you freak.

是的，手上沾粪的是你。

Yeah you're the one with poop on your hands.

谁提到过谁手上沾粪了？要不是你说了谁会想到？

Like who said anything about poop on their hands until you did?

我不知道，但我们认识几个洁癖患者。

I don't know but there's we know a couple of people that are germaphobes.

我们得小心点。

We have to watch out.

我们在五十多岁时要警惕的是，那些曾经看似可爱的怪癖，会变成真正的心理疾病。

That's the thing we have to watch out for in our 50s is the thing that was like our cute eccentricity becomes our genuine mental illness.

就是那种你不喜欢开车的情况。

The thing that's like you know how they don't like to drive.

我的驾照过期了，疫情前你就说，你得去把驾照重新办回来。

Well I got my license had expired and during the pandemic you were like, it was before the pandemic you were like you gotta get your license back.

你当时说，你不能成为那种不开车的老太太。

To me you were like you can't be one of those older ladies that doesn't drive.

你说得对。

And I'm like you're right.

你说得对。

You're right.

你说得对。

You're right.

我确实觉得不，我非常喜欢开车。

I do feel No I love to drive.

我也是。

I do.

你确实喜欢。

You do.

你开车技术很好。

You're good at driving.

太喜欢了。

Love it.

你的车叫什么名字？

The name of your car is

我的车叫凯伦，因为她是一辆白色的斯巴鲁。

My car is named Karen because she's a white Subaru.

我之前说过，我觉得艾米差点就成了一个凯伦。

And I said this before which is I feel like Amy came this close to being a Karen.

是的。

Yes.

就像那个，呃，是的。

Like the the yeah.

因为正如你所说，现实中很多最糟糕的凯伦实际上名字就叫艾米。

Because as you've said, like a lot of the actual worst Karens were in fact named Amy in real life.

那个举报观鸟男子的女性名叫艾米，同时艾米·科尼·巴雷特也在崛起，那时关于艾米的事情太多了。

The woman that called the guy that was bird watching was named Amy at the same time Amy Coney Barrett was up and running or getting up and running there was a lot going on with Amy's.

差一点就撞上了。

Missed it by an inch.

是的。

Yeah

这真是个救赎。

it's a real saving grace.

你有没有觉得我做什么事情是你觉得我应该小心的？

Is there anything you feel like you see me doing that you should like I should be careful about?

提醒我注意的？

Warn you about?

这是个好问题。

That's a good question.

我觉得

I think that

女性之间就是这样，会说嘿，你知道你坐飞机时吃的那些药吗？

is what women do for each other is they say like hey you know like you know the pills that you take for flying?

你根本就不该吃那些药。

You shouldn't take them at all.

当你不坐飞机的时候。

When you're not flying.

我的椅子放了个屁。

Well my chair made a fart sound.

不是我。

Wasn't me.

不，我觉得我知道你应该提醒我什么，特别是疫情之后。

No I feel like I know what you should tell me about, which is the the especially coming out of the pandemic.

是的。

Yeah.

我嘟囔说话，是的。

My mumbling, talking Yeah.

你在嘟囔。

You're mumbling.

锻炼过。

Exercised.

你在嘟囔。

You're mumbling.

有时候，当我思考得特别快的时候，我甚至会想，哇。

And sometimes and I when I'm thinking really fast, like, really is even I'm like, wow.

那里发生了什么？

What's going on there?

我得努力才能把话说完整。

Like, I have to work to fully form my words.

你认为那里发生了什么？

What do you think is going on there?

我觉得我在疫情期间待在家里很多，经常自言自语。

I think I stayed home a lot in the pandemic and muttered to myself.

我希望只是这样，而不是某种精神衰退的前兆。

And I hope that's it and not that's not a precursor to some kind of mental decline.

她的喃喃自语是从53岁开始的。

It was like her muttering started when she was 53.

然后她就变得

And then she became

像电影《Crum》里的Crum兄弟之一。

one of the Crum brothers from the movie Crum.

大家暂停一下播客。

Everyone pause the podcast.

赶紧去看看《Crum》这部电影。

Go watch Crum real quick.

但我正在想，是不是

But I'm trying to think if the

我我不太清楚，不过我和朋友们玩过一个游戏。

I I I don't Well, know that I I like I play this game with my friends.

这会是个很有趣的共同游戏，就是：那个让你最害怕自己会变成的你，会是什么样子？

This would be a fun game to play together, which is like, what is the version of you that's like your biggest fear you will turn into?

我知道我的答案。

I know mine exactly.

好吧。

Okay.

那是什么？

What is it?

怎么

How

我该怎么说才不直接说出来呢？

do I say this without saying it?

我想写下来给你看

I want to write it down and show

给你看。

it to you.

顺便说一下，我带了电脑过来，你知道的，因为做播客的人都会带电脑。

You can By the way, I have my computer here, you know, because that's what people do with podcasts is they have their computers.

因为你一整段时间都在玩糖果传奇。

Because you're playing Candy Crush the whole time.

而且你只开着一个窗口，

And you have one window open with

我希望我们能做一期整个播客都讲错信息的节目。

I wish we could do the whole podcast where I say really the wrong information about everything.

然后我会假装查一下，并在你面前核实它。

And then I pretend to look it up and I verify it in front of you.

哦，我还希望我整个时间都在吸大麻。

Oh, also I wish I was just smoking weed the whole time.

如果我直接点上一支大麻烟呢？

What if I just start lit up a joint?

好吧。

Okay.

让我

Let me

但我该怎么表达这一点呢？

But how do I articulate that?

我会说，有一种特别尖锐的、年长的娱乐圈风格。

I would say There's a certain type of strident older showbiz.

就是那种听好了，亲爱的，我根本不care。

That's like listen to me honey I don't give a fuck.

我就说：天啊。

And I'm like oh god.

但那根本不像你，你是个嘟囔的人。

But that's so not you, you're a mutterer.

我确实是个嘟囔的人。

I'm a mutterer.

但它的样子还有一种特质，就像我经常说我要剪头发，而我的朋友盖伊给我剪了三十年头发，他总说：不行。

But there's also something about the look of it that's As often as I say, I'm gonna cut my hair, and my friend Guy has been doing my hair for thirty years, he's like, no.

不行，你不可以。

No, you may not.

嗯，你有最好的头发，谢谢。

Well, you have the best hair in Thank the you.

人们应该知道这一点。

People should know this.

让我们把所有

Let's get all

头发运动。

hair campaign.

这些都是蒂娜的头发。

This is all Tina's hair.

这些都是我的头发。

This is all my hair.

谢谢。

Thank you.

就像那些对奥兹empic感到愤怒的瘦子一样，在两千年初，当这些女人开始穿运动裤时，我心想：什么？

And much like skinny people who are mad about Ozempic, in the in the early two thousands when all these bitches started wearing tracks, was like, what?

这是我的。你完全可以拥有什么

This is my You could just have what

我有什么？

I have?

这些就是我全部的了。

This is all I have.

这是最不可思议的真发

It is it is the most incredible real hair

我们之前只是这么做过。

I've We ever just did this.

我刚拍了一部叫《四季》的剧，五月上映。

I just did this show called The Four Seasons that's coming out in May.

里面有一场戏改编自一部老电影，主角是艾伦·阿尔达和卡罗尔·伯内特，电影里有个场景是卡罗尔·伯内特愤怒地用力梳着她短短的头发，简直太1981年了。

And, there's a scene it's based on this old movie with Alan Alda and Carol Burnett, and there's a scene in the old movie where Carol Burnett Carol Burnett is very angrily brushing her short hair, which is so it's like the most 1981 thing ever.

首先，我们知道，你根本不会用力梳短发。

Like, first of all, we know, like, you don't vigorously brush short hair.

那样看起来会很糟糕。

It's gonna look terrible.

但她在这场戏里，正在吵架，还在梳头。

But she's in the scene, she's fighting, she's brushing her hair.

我把那一小段放进了剧里。

And I put the that's just a little bit of that in the in the show.

我只是把自己代入了那个场景。

I just put myself in the eye.

我一直在说，科尔曼·多明戈执导了那一集。

And and I kept saying Coleman Domingo was directing that episode.

我不断地说：科尔曼，我跟你说。

And I kept saying, like, Coleman, I'll tell you what.

很多这些电影明星演技比我好，但他们拍戏时没法认真梳头，因为他们都戴着假发。

A lot of these movie stars, they can act better than me, but they can't brush their hair on camera because they're all wearing fucking wigs.

没错。

Exactly.

而且他们都戴着假发，所以我坚持在剪辑时保留了几段我梳头的镜头。

And they're all wearing and so I like I was insisted in the edit that a couple shots of me brushing my hair stayed in.

后来我去参与混音时，就说：咦，你们把我的梳头声调低了吗？

And then I went to the mix, and I was like, oh, did you turn down the the sound sound of my hair brushing?

把它调回去。

Turn it back up.

这就是制作的本质。

And that's that's what producing is.

制作就是这么回事。

That's all that's producing is.

这完全是疯狂和自恋。

It's insanity and narcissism.

就像把我的

And it's like turn up my

头发声调高，把刷子划过我头发的声音调大。

hair Turn up the sound of the brush going through my hair.

而且

And

人们说我们不需要，但你说我们确实需要。

people go we don't need it and you go we do need it.

我们确实需要。

We do need it.

但你的头发真的太棒了。

But you have incredible hair.

我觉得你应该搞个护发推广活动，而且我总是劝你为什么不去戴眼镜呢？

I feel like you should have a hair campaign and also I always am pushing you to have Why a glasses do you not have

眼镜？

a glasses?

我没有眼镜产品线，因为说实话，你是不是讨厌钱？

I don't have a glasses line because I have to say you hate money?

我确实有点讨厌钱。

I do kind of hate money.

众所周知，我在理财方面很糟糕，只是我就像

As we know, I'm terrible with I'm terrible with money only in that I'm like

你才不糟糕呢。

You are not terrible.

不是的。

No.

我并不糟糕。

I'm not terrible.

我不浪费钱，但也不会对钱感到兴奋。

I don't waste money, but I don't get excited about money.

比如，如果我，是的。

Like, if I Yeah.

只要我安全，有足够的钱生活，我就对有钱人搞副业感到不满。

If I'm safe and my I have enough money to live, I I have a problem with rich people having a side hustle.

是的。

Yeah.

但你是说像播客这样的吗？不是。

But you mean like a podcast or No.

那只是你在工作。

That's just you're doing work.

我说的是，如果你卖东西，比如，你认为我的定位应该在哪里？

I'm saying if you if you sold, like, where would my line be for you?

我该在哪里划线呢？

Where would I draw the line?

是的，我明白你的意思。

Yeah, I know what you mean.

比如，如果我有一朵玫瑰，如果你

Like if I had a rose If you

如果你已经拥有两亿美元，却还说我也需要你

already have like $200,000,000 and you're like also I need you to

但蒂娜，这就是你需要向Z世代学习的地方。

But Tina this is where you have to learn from Gen Z.

对不起，我们确实得这样。

I'm sorry, and we have to.

他们不在乎。

They don't care.

他们不关心，他们只会评判

They don't They judge

别评判

don't judge

它。

it.

而且，嗯，应该

And Well, should

停止吧，因为这就是你需要有一百万的东西。

stop because this is the thing that you have to have a million.

你得戴眼镜。

You have to have glasses.

嗯，我有一条儿童药品线。

Well, I have my line of children's medications.

我跟你说过，这太危险了。

And I told you that's so treacherous.

不，顺便说一句，很多年前，你还记得看到过吗？我不会说出这位女演员的名字，但有人可能能猜出来。

No, by the way, one time a million years ago, remember seeing and I won't name this actress, but someone could figure it out.

我记得看过一位80年代的女演员推广她家的顺势疗法儿童药品。

I remember seeing an '80s actress promoting her line of homeopathic children's medications.

我当时就想，我凭什么要相信一位女演员推荐的儿童药品呢？

Was like why on this earth would I trust an actress for pediatric medications

给我的孩子用？

to give to my child?

你说你担心随着年龄增长，会变成那种咄咄逼人、固执己见、总爱说‘事情就该这么办，宝贝’的人。

You're saying you worry about turning into a woman as we get older as you get older that is like a strident opinionated here's how it works babe kind of person.

是啊，还总跟所有人作对。

Yeah and just fighting everybody.

是的。

Yeah.

我只是觉得，作为一种练习，思考我们的个性挺有趣的。

Just Because I just think as an exercise it's fun to think about our personalities.

那些让我们走到今天、坐在这里的东西——我们很幸运，已经走过了很多年，希望未来还有更多年，一直在工作，尝试各种不同的事情。

The thing that like got us here that are here sitting in front like you lucky enough to have a lot of years behind us, hopefully more years in front of us, working, getting to try all this different stuff.

我们现在正处于人生的阶段，处于一个充满张力的中间期：要么父母已经离世，要么父母正在衰老；孩子也正逐渐长大成人。说实话，我们更接近三分之二，而不是真正的中点，但我们喜欢说自己处于中年。

We're at a point in our lives where we get to we're like in this juicy middle where we have either parents who have passed away or aging parents we have kids who are like coming into their own we're right in the middle Let's of be honest we're more two thirds than middle but we like to say we're middle.

不过我会活到一百岁。

Although I'm gonna live to a 100.

天哪，别这样。

God forbid.

等等，你不想活到一百岁吗？

Wait, you don't want to live to 100?

不想。

No.

除非未来会出现一些惊人的变化。

Unless there's some amazing There will be.

好吧。

Okay.

走着瞧吧。

We'll see.

就像新肺一样，会有一整套东西。

Like new lungs, there'll be a whole thing.

钱只能在一定程度上解决你八九十岁时的问题。

Money only can fix your 80s and 90s so much.

这就是我们所经历的，我们接触过很多富有的老年人，他们无法接受的事情就是他们终将一死。

That is the thing we've traveled on we've hung around a lot of wealthy older people and the thing that they cannot get over is that they're gonna die.

这就是他们无法接受的事情。

Like that's the thing they

但是谁能帮你呢？我该找谁？

But can't who's your guy who do I call?

是的。

Yeah.

对，而且根本没人能帮上忙。

Yeah and it's like no one.

你只能找上帝。

You call God.

是的。

Yeah.

你给他打电话，说‘是的’。

You call him on the phone and say Yeah.

但不好意思。

But sorry.

他说：‘欢迎来到地狱。’

And he says welcome to hell.

他说欢迎

He says welcome

还有

And to

上帝说：欢迎来到地狱。

God says welcome to hell.

好的。

Okay.

顺便说一下，你想聊聊《四季》吗？

Do you want to talk about Four Seasons for a second, by the way?

因为这部剧马上要播出了。

Because it is coming out.

科尔曼·多明戈是这个世界上的一位王子。

And Colman Domingo is a prince on this earth.

是这个世界上的一位天使。

An angel on this earth.

天啊。

God.

他太有才华了，太美了。

So talented, so beautiful.

太迷人了。

Gorgeous.

内外都像一个美丽的人。

Inside and out like a beautiful human being.

是的。

Yes.

所以我们正在为Netflix制作这部剧《四季》。

So we're doing this show, The Four Seasons on Netflix.

我对此非常兴奋。

I'm very excited about it.

它改编自1981年由艾伦·阿尔达编剧并执导的电影，他也是这个世界上另一位天使。

It is based on this 1981 movie that was written and directed by Alan Alda, another angel on this earth.

我可以告诉别人，我最近在你家向艾伦·阿尔达打过招呼吗？

Can I tell people that I said hello to Alan Alda at your house recently?

艾伦·阿尔达来过我家。

Alan Alda came to my house.

那真是太棒了。

That was pretty cool.

艾伦和阿琳·阿尔达，

Alan and Arlene Alda,

他是他可爱的妻子。

it was a real His lovely wife.

重大事件。

Momentous occurrence.

我的意思是，艾伦·阿尔达在我们的生活中非常重要。

I mean, Alan Alda was huge in our lives.

是的。

Yeah.

他依然非常重要。

He remains huge.

对。

Yeah.

而且他是个大人物。

And he loom he's such a big deal.

你根本无法想象他有多了不起，你还记得那个超级艾美奖吗？

Like, you can't even imagine what a giant do you remember the Super Emmy?

不。

No.

一年。

One year.

有一年，他们颁发了一个超级艾美奖。

One year they gave out a Super Emmy.

所以它被称为超级艾美奖？

So it was like It was called a Super Emmy?

它被称为超级艾美奖，而他是唯一获得过这个奖的人，因为那一年他们包揽了最佳剧集、最佳导演、最佳剧本等等所有奖项。

It was called a Super Emmy, and he's the only person that ever got it because it was like they won like best show, best directing, best script, blah blah blah blah blah.

超级艾美奖颁给了来自《玛特》的艾伦·阿尔达。

And the Super Emmy goes to Alan Alda from Matt.

所有人都说：够了，别再颁超级艾美奖了。

And everyone was like, That's enough of the Super Emmy.

他们只办过一次？

They only did it once?

我觉得他们只办过一次。

I think they only did it once.

它比普通的艾美奖更大吗？

And is it was it bigger than a regular Emmy?

你应该请他来参加这个播客。

You have to have you should call you should have him on the podcast.

哦，他有个很棒的播客。

Oh, he has a great podcast.

我听过他的播客。

He I have listened to his podcast.

这是少数几个能攻入我堡垒的播客之一。

It's one of the few that have penetrated my fortress.

她就是这么说的。

That's what she said.

我很想聊聊这个，因为从头到尾都是一次真正愉快的经历。

I would love to talk about it because it was a truly joyous experience top to bottom.

我最引以为傲的事情之一，就是有很多演员和工作人员主动来找我，说这是他们经历过的最愉快的一次工作。

Like, of the things I'm most proud about of this whole thing was that so many people, actors and crew came up to me and were like, this is the most pleasant job we've ever had.

正如我所说，整个团队是有意打造为充满善意的人组成的。

And it was like I said it was built as intentionally as possible to be all good souls.

主演包括美丽的意大利演员马尔科·卡尔瓦尼、史蒂夫·卡瑞尔、威尔·福特、卡莉·金尼·西尔弗和艾丽卡·亨宁森。

And it's Coleman, a beautiful Italian actor named Marco Calvani, Steve Carell, Will Forte, Carrie Kinney Silver and Erica Henningsen.

这个小团队基本上就是全部班底了。

And it's basically that little ensemble is pretty much that's it.

临时演员非常少，几乎没有真正的客串明星。

Very few day players, very few like no real very few guest stars.

所以整个氛围非常温馨。

And so it was a really cozy environment.

这是一部非常温和的节目，我真的很期待看看大家是否会对这样一部轻松、惬意的剧集感兴趣。

And it's a very, very gentle program that I am kind of just can't wait to see if people, are interested in a gentle a a good hang.

希望它能成为电视版的‘好时光相聚’，因为虽然有故事，但没有僵尸。

It hopefully is the TV equivalent of a good hang because it's just you know there's some story but there's no zombies.

没有任何谜团。

There's no mysteries.

太好了。

Great.

这正是我们在这里试图做到的，因为我的神经系统受不了。

That's exactly truly what we're trying to do here because I can't my nervous system.

有两件事是我神经系统无法承受的，与其他世界相比。

Two things My nervous system cannot take it compared to the rest of the world.

是的。

Yes.

而且我觉得有时候会有种奇怪的感觉，你是完全相反的例子，我觉得你从不这样做。

And also I feel like there's this weird sometimes I mean you are the exact you're the example of not doing this I think.

你做的每一件事都是硬核笑话和硬核喜剧，总是非常非常搞笑，但很多时候，女性被要求在各种场合扮演养育者和照顾者的角色。

Everything you make is hard jokes and hard comedy and always really really funny but a lot of times women specifically are asked to like be nurturing caretakers in spaces.

当我们在构思这个播客时，心想：这些男人都可以随便玩闹、享受乐趣，而我们却要搞纯粹的喜剧逃避主义。

Be teachers and when we were thinking about this podcast it was like all these guys get to just goof around and have fun and it'd be like straight comedy escapism.

我们的内容还得涉及更年期，这也很重要。

And our stuff has to be, I don't know, about menopause which also is important.

是的。

Yeah.

对于那些希望每分钟笑点爆棚的人来说，这些角色虽然有趣，但完全是贴近人性的尺度。

This is, I mean, for the people who want a 100 jokes per minute this is These characters are funny but it's all completely human scale.

哦，我喜欢这个说法。

Oh I love that.

所以，我们拭目以待吧。

So again we shall see.

我觉得这就像一个小科学实验，可能有人会说：‘不，不行。’

And I feel like it is just a little science experiment where people might be like no.

但电视其实已经不存在了，对吧？

But TV doesn't really, there's no TV anymore, right?

现在全是关于电视的文章。

It's all just articles about TV.

电视本身还在播。

TV itself is on.

都是AI生成的列表文章。

It's AI generated listicles.

是关于那些已经停播的电视剧的TikTok视频。

It's TikTok about TV shows that aren't on.

那你平时做什么呢？

So what is the thing that you do?

你去哪里放松一下？

Where do you go to escape?

你通常看什么样的视频？

What is like the video that you watch?

你关注的是谁？

The person that you watch?

是什么让你发笑？

What is making you laugh?

我有几样喜欢看的东西。

I have a couple things that I like to watch.

我喜欢看的一个东西，而且我会继续提到抖音。

One of the things I like to watch is and again I'm gonna keep referencing TikTok.

我不是一个公共账号。

I am not a public account.

你找不到我。

You will don't find me.

别找我。

Don't look for me.

别找。

Don't

如果有人假装是你，那都是假的。

If look at anyone's pretending to be you they're fake.

是假的。

It's fake.

是的。

Yeah.

但是

But

我喜欢看人们表演、学习或尝试教授碧昂丝《家园归来》舞蹈片段的视频。

I like to watch videos of people either doing or learning or trying to teach Beyonce's homecoming dance break.

所以要么是能跳的人，要么是我特别喜欢那种你根本想不到他们会跳，结果他们真的跳出来了的场景。

So either someone who can do it or I love it when it's a person who you don't expect them to be able to do it and then they do it.

比如他们手里拿着一个洗衣篮？

Like they're holding like a laundry basket?

对。

Yes.

所以他们就是典型的妈妈，在洗衣房里，然后突然跳了起来。

So they're just like yeah they're a mom in laundry room and then they do it.

我试过看教学视频来学，但我不是个好舞者，我知道就算从现在开始到我生命的尽头，我也学不会这段舞蹈的前16拍。

I have tried to watch tutorials to try to do I'm not a great dancer and I know that if I was given from now to the end of my life, I could not learn the first 16 counts of that dance.

是的。

Yeah.

但我喜欢看人们跳这个舞。

But I love watching people do it.

前几天，我看了很多人在跳这个舞，其中有一个男生，身材非常健硕，穿着短裤，赤裸上身在跳。

And then the other day, I was watching a whole bunch of people doing it, and it took me one guy was like a really beautiful ripped guy in shorts, no shirt doing it.

我当时就想，哦，这又是一个新的层次。

And I was like, oh, this is a new layer of this.

然后算法就问我：‘哦，你看了这个？’

And then the algorithm was like, oh, you you watch that?

所以你就是想看那些带有#rugbybuild标签的视频？

So you just wanna see videos that are just like hashtag rugby build?

我当时就回答：‘哦，是的。’

And it was just like Oh, yeah.

那些有橄榄球运动员身材的男生。

Guys with a rugby build.

我当时在想

And I was

我觉得我确实想看这个。

like, I think I do wanna watch this.

保罗·麦斯卡尔开创了这种风格。

Yeah Paul Mescal started that.

他简直就是典型的橄榄球健体代表。

Like he's the ultimate famous rugby build.

那你有没有看过橄榄球比赛中，他们得用内裤把对方举起来的场景？

And then have you seen in rugby where they have to pick each other up with their underwear?

在橄榄球比赛中有一种动作，球员们要让对方站得更高， basically 就像是把你举起一个人那样。

No so in rugby there's a move where they the men to get the other one taller, you know, like to basically it's almost like if you're if you're hoisting somebody up.

是的。

Yeah.

他们基本上是抓住对方的短裤和内裤。

They grab basically their shorts and underwear.

这太奇怪了。

That's so weird.

然后他们就这样把它举起来。

And then that's how they get it up.

而且网上还有视频。

And there's videos.

我并不是说我的算法一定受到了这些影响，但我看过足够多这样的画面，现在我确实注意到了，男人会互相抓住腰部。

And I'm not saying that my algorithm has necessarily taken up on this, but I have seen them enough to now I do get them, where men grab each other by the waist.

这非常女性化。

It's very feminine.

实际上，看起来几乎像芭蕾。

Actually almost looks Baletic.

是的，看起来像是一个托举动作。

Yes, it looks like a lift.

对。

Yeah.

但他们互相抓住并把对方抬起来。

But they grab each other and lift each other up.

然后他们的阴茎，他们的动作正好在一条线上，但这完全没问题。

And then their penis, their tics are right in the line of But their it's totally fine.

我的意思是，不管怎样都没关系。

I mean, it's fine either way.

当然，没问题。

Of course, it is.

我只是说每个人都开心。

I just mean that everyone's happy.

每个人都在做自己想做的事。

There's no everyone's doing exactly what they want to do.

是的。

Yeah.

而且这些是慢动作。

And these are in slow motion.

是的。

Yes.

对，我对那个算法的改动并不生气。

Yeah, I wasn't mad about that change in my algorithm.

另外，我真正感到开心的唯一其他电视节目是我周末早晨的本地新闻。

And Okay, so another thing that I really do the only other television program that truly brings me joy is my weekend local news in the morning.

哇。

Wow.

我喜欢

I love

顺便说一下，他们知道这一点，可能心里想：别再提我们了。

and by the way, they know this and they're probably like, stop talking about us.

这变得有点怪了。

It's getting weird.

谁是

Who are

你的音箱？

your speakers?

我喜欢NBC四台的帕特·贝特尔和古斯·罗森塔尔。

I love NBC four, Pat Battle, Gus Rosenthal.

我认为这是整个星期中最真正有信息量、最温馨的节目。

It is I find to be the most truly informative, nice program on the whole week.

艾米，你得到的是这些。

Here's what you get, Amy.

你得到你的新闻。

You get your news.

你得到简要的国内新闻。

You get your national news briefly.

你得到你的本地新闻。

You get your local news.

主要是本地新闻。

Mostly local.

对吧？

Right?

好的。

Okay.

然后你还会看到皮特的农产品。

Then you get produce Pete.

哦，喜欢这位慈祥的意大利老人。

Oh, love Nice old Italian man.

他会介绍当季食材，告诉你怎么烹饪。

It comes out, tells you what's in season, what to make with it.

太棒了。

Incredible.

在疫情之前，频率更高一些。

Then it used to be more frequently before the pandemic.

疫情之前，他都是亲自到场。

Before the pandemic, he used to be in person.

比尔的书评，一位名叫比尔的绅士会来跟你分享他读过的书，他喜欢哪些部分，以及推荐你读什么。

Bill's books, nice, gentleman named Bill that comes and tells you what he read, what he liked about it, what he recommends that you read.

嗯，是的。

Uh-huh.

在疫情之前，他们有时还会介绍一些可供领养的动物。

Before the pandemic, they also then used to sometimes be like, here are some animals that are up for adoption.

我觉得这种做法已经消失了。

I feel like that's gone away.

但就这些了。

But that's it.

然后是天气、交通，还有帕特·贝特尔和古斯，我想他们是朋友。

And then the weather and the traffic and and Pat Battle and Gus, I believe they're friends.

他们之间的互动非常融洽。

They have a wonderful rapport.

你不知道他们之间是什么关系吗？

You don't know what their deal is?

我的意思是，别以为他们不只是朋友，如果你是这个意思的话。

I mean, don't think they're more than friends, if that's what you're implying.

我绝不会这么想。

I would never.

但我

But I

我觉得他们很喜欢做同事。

feel like they they like being coworkers.

祝帕特·贝特尔周末愉快。

What a great weekend to Pat Battle.

帕特·贝特尔。

Pat Battle.

我听过。

Have I listen.

有一次，好像是飓风什么的。

One time, it was like a hurricane or something.

那是一场暴风雪。

It was a blizzard.

帕特·巴特尔穿着她那件‘这算什么大事’的外套走上了街头。

Pat Battle went out on the street in her That's home big deal.

她去了她在新泽西的家附近，帮人们推车。

She went out where she lives in New Jersey, and she was helping people push their cars.

这很酷。

That's cool.

不是的。

Nope.

这才是美国应该有的样子。

That is what America should be.

明白吗？

Okay?

这就是帕特。

It's Pat.