维奥拉·戴维斯

我说：你告诉他我是黑人了吗？

I said, did you tell him I was black?

我是公交车上唯一的黑人女孩。

I was the only black girl on the bus.

他说：哦，我觉得我不该这么说，你知道的，但你提到的关于黑人的直白表达，他们就是怎么想就怎么说。

He was like, oh I didn't feel like I could say that, you know, but the thing with where you're talking about plain spoken thing about black people, they call it as it is.

没错。

That's right.

你知道那个出来后左胸有纹身、嘴里还长着一颗牙的黑人女孩吗？就是那个女孩。

You know that black girl who come out and she got the tattoo on her left titty, and she got one tooth coming out of her mouth, it's that girl.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，我从小和父母一起成长的，就是这种直来直去的风格，他们就是这么直率。

So it's, it's that sort of plain spokenness I grew up with with my mom and dad, they were that plain spoken.

你说话真好，我的意思是，你如此优美地谈到了你的童年、成长中的困难，以及你作为成年人如何实时地处理这些经历，但我想知道，随着年龄增长，这是否也和你一样？

Well you talk, I mean you've spoken beautifully about your childhood growing up and the difficulties in it and the way that you've like been processing it in real time as an adult now and, but I think and I don't know if this is the same for you as I get older.

我开始尝试审视我的根源、出生地，弄清楚它赋予了我的哪些礼物，同时也带来了哪些痛苦，对吧。

I start trying to look at my, my origin, the place of origin and figure out what gifts it gave me and what pain it gave me at the same time, right.

而且

And

在东海岸长大的某种东西，我不知道为什么一直伴随着你。

there is this something about growing up on the East Coast, I don't know that sticks with you.

我知道这听起来很傻，但就像我们刚才模仿的口音，这种口音真的会一直保留着。

And I know this sounds silly but like the accent that we just did like the accent sticks around.

我总是说，当我生气或非常兴奋时，我的口音有时就会冒出来。

I always say like when I'm angry or really excited, my accent comes out sometimes.

是的。

Yeah.

你的口音也会这样吗？

Does your accent?

即使在演戏时，我的口音也会冒出来。

My accent comes out too even when I'm acting.

是的。

Yeah.

尤其是在情感激烈的场景中，它会突然冒出来，让我自己都感到惊讶。当然，我去过纽约的一所学校，那里会彻底消除你的口音。

Especially in an emotional scene and it just surprises me, it'll jump out at me and you know of course I went to a school in New York that kills your accent.

是的。

Yeah.

在茱莉亚德学院，到第四年如果你还带着口音，就会被开除。

You get thrown out if you still have an accent at Juilliard by your fourth year.

对。

Right.

到了第二年，他们就警告我，说除非你纠正了这个该死的口音，否则不准回学校。

And by my second year, they warned me and said, you cannot come back to the school until you fix up whatever the hell this is going on.

所以我记得每天花两个小时练习如何说‘father’而不是‘father’。

And so I remember like every single day for two hours practicing how to say father instead of father.

父亲。

Father.

在茱莉亚学院，当你说话或走路时，他们会把一支铅笔放在你嘴里。

And you know at Juilliard when you speak too, when you're walking around they put a pencil in your mouth.

在排练时，他们会把铅笔放在你嘴里，观察你发音时舌头的位置。

During rehearsal they put a pencil in your mouth to see where your tongue is when you're articulating your sentences.

所以我被逼得不得不拼命改变，却没意识到这其实是一件美好的事。

So I was traumatized into just catapulting that, not realizing that's a beautiful thing.

是的。

Yeah.

你有没有演过带有罗德岛口音或波士顿口音的角色，然后尽情发挥？

Have you ever gotten to play anyone with a, you know, with a Rhode Island accent or Boston accent and like let it rip?

没有，艾米。

No, Amy.

没人会写来自罗德岛的黑人女孩的角色。

Nobody's writing a black girl from Rhode Island roles.

也许我们可以拍一部公路片

Well, maybe we do a road

旅行。

trip.

你去吧。

You it.

你得写啊，我的意思是，我们刚才在谈朱莉亚德学院，你谈了很多关于那里的事、你在那里的训练，以及你从中学到了什么。在你去之前，是谁告诉你的？或者你是什么时候产生那种感觉的——我想当演员？这就是我问的原因，因为我是教师的女儿。

You need to write I mean, I mean, you're what we're talking about going to Juilliard and, you've talked a lot about it and your training there and like what you took from it and before you got there, who told you or when did you have that feeling of I want to, I want to be an actor it's reason why I asked, I'm the daughter of school teachers.

我认识的人里没有演员。

No one I knew was an actor.

我一个演员都不认识。

I didn't know any actors.

当然，我知道电影和电视里的名人，但从来没想过那会成为我的职业。

I didn't, like of course, I knew famous people in movies and TV, but I didn't know that would be a job of mine.

但我参加过学校的戏剧演出，有人会过来对我说：‘你演得真好。’

But I was in school plays, and people would come up and say, you were good.

是的，就是这样。

Yeah, exactly.

你知道，你一直待在

You know like you hung in

那里。

it there.

是不是让你很意外？

Surprises you right?

是的。

Yeah.

但对我来说，这是一个渐进的过程。

But for me, it's, it's gradual.

所以很难 pinpoint 出某一个人，但我向你保证，越想越觉得，我必须指出那个时刻——八岁时我们在詹克斯公园的滑稽剧比赛中赢了。

So it's hard to pinpoint one person in but one I swear to you, the more I think about it, I have to pinpoint the moment that we won the skit contest at Jenks Park when I was eight years old.

艾米，就是那一刻。

Amy, that was it.

对。

Yeah.

因为我当时特别害羞，真的很害羞，害羞到不敢在公共场合说话，所以我们演了那个小品，我扮演了《那是我的妈妈》里的‘Oo wee’小孩，那个角色是Ted Lang演的，不知道你记不记得这个节目，我可不想让你觉得自己老了。

Because I was so shy, you know and brutally shy, like to the point where I couldn't speak in public and so we did the skit, know and I played the Oo wee kid from That's My Mama, that's Ted Lang, I don't know if you remember that show, I don't want to age you.

不，这是什么节目？

No, what show?

这个节目叫《那是我的妈妈》。

It's called That's My Mama.

哦，明白了。

Okay.

他扮演的是个‘Oo wee’小孩，是个爱八卦的人，他

And he was a Oo wee kid, he was a gossipy guy and he

会出场

would come

然后喊‘Oo wee，Oo wee，我有料了，我有料了，我来爆料了。'

in and go Oo wee, Oo wee, I got it, I got it, I'm in a report it.

所以我就演了个小屁孩，我妹妹多洛雷斯演的是《让咱们做交易》里的那个蒙特尔，叫什么来着

So I was a wee kid, my sister Dolores was, what's his name from Let's Make a Deal Montel

蒙特·霍尔。

Monte Hall.

蒙特·霍尔，她

Monte Hall, she

蒙特·霍尔是我姐姐，安妮塔是《桑福德和儿子》里的艾斯特姨妈，黛安则扮演弗雷德·桑福德。

was Monte Hall, my sister Anita was was Esther, Aunt Esther from Sanford and Sons and my sister Diane was Fred Sanford.

天哪。

Oh my god.

我觉得我书里有记录，我们当时搞了一个类似真人秀的节目，每个人要上台讲一个自己救过别人性命的故事，故事最精彩的能赢一百万美元。

I think I have it in my book but we created a game show sort of reality show where we had to come on and tell a story of how you saved a life, and whoever had the best story won a million dollars.

姐妹们的出生顺序是怎样的？

What are in the in the birth order of the sisters?

倒数第二小的。

Next to the youngest.

我还有一个更小的妹妹，是我最疼爱的宝贝。

I have one younger sister who was my baby.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

哇哦。

So wow.

所以，家里有三个，一共四个女孩，一起排练，演小品，搞喜剧。

So three, so four girls in the same family rehearsing, like doing skits, doing comedy.

改剧本。

Having rewrites.

是的，制作

Yeah, making

改剧本。

having rewrites.

我们当时只有2.5美元的服装预算，就去救世军商店，或者翻我妈妈的衣柜。

We had a little wardrobe budget of $2.50, we'd go to Salvation Army and you know, or raid my mom's closet.

整个事情是这样的，我们参加了小品比赛，因为我们觉得镇上那些该死的人，真该死，真该死。

The whole thing was, we did the skit contest because we were like, these fucking people in this town, fuck her fuck her.

我的意思是，那些欺负人的家伙，我们知道，我们要让他们刮目相看，我们要赢得自信。

I mean, people who like were bullies, you know, and we were like, we're gonna stick it to them, we're gonna win the confidence.

是的。

Yeah.

再次展现出自信，就是那样自然地呈现，整个中央瀑布的人都来了。

Once again the self possession, and just being and everyone in Central Falls was there.

人们坐在石头上，报纸也来了，艾米，我们赢了。

People were sitting on rocks, you know, the newspaper was there, Amy, we won.

天啊，那一定

Damn, that must

一定非常令人兴奋。

have been so exciting.

维奥拉，我的意思是，这一路我很难不一直夸你有多棒。

Viola, I mean, it's gonna be hard for me to not talk about how great you are this whole time.

对我来说，这个故事就像一个运动员突然意识到，哦，我天生擅长打棒球之类的，你知道，你在自己擅长的领域里如此出色。

To me that story feels like when an athlete realizes, like, oh, I'm naturally good at hitting a baseball or something, you know, you are so good at what you do.

我很感激你这么说。

Well, I appreciate that.

你做事的自然天赋，加上你的决心和技巧，真的太棒了，我的意思是，真希望我能有个时间机器，回到那天亲眼看你表演，因为我只能想象人们指着你说：哇。

And the naturalness of what you do, combined with your determination and skill, it's just so, I mean, wish I could have a time machine and go back to that day and see you performing because I can only imagine that people pointed at you and said, Wow.

不知道有没有人指着我说哇，但我自己指了指自己，然后我。

Don't know if anyone and pointed at said wow, I pointed at myself and And I

你是怎么从那里去到茱莉亚学院的？

how do you go from there to Juilliard?

你是怎么做到的，你知道的，我们永远都不会知道。

How do you, you know what, we'll never know.

你永远都不会知道。

You never know.

但你 audition 的是什么节目，才能进入茱莉亚学院？

But what do you what do you audition with to get into Juilliard?

我用《紫色》中的塞莉进行了试镜。

I auditioned with Cely from Color Purple.

天哪。

Oh, God.

那是我的戏剧片段，然后我接着试镜了一段喜剧，来自《该死的》，我忘了名字了。

That was my dramatic and then I auditioned with a sort of comedy piece from God damn it, I'm forgetting.

天啊。

Oh boy.

那是一段法式喜剧。

It was sort of French comedy.

像是一种闹剧那样的？

Like a farce kind of

是的。

thing?

对。

Uh-huh.

是的

Yeah.

我的意思是，你当时在演莎士比亚，你是怎么记住莎士比亚的台词的？或者你通常怎么记台词？

I mean, you were doing Shakespeare, what do you have a way to memorize Shakespeare or like how do you like to memorize?

这是一个过程。

It's a process.

是的

Yeah.

所以你得弄清楚自己是谁，你为什么而活，还有那些没人想听的无聊琐事。

So you have to figure out who you are, what you live for all that other stuff that nobody ever wants to hear about by the way it's so boring.

确实如此。

It really is.

我知道，但我觉得有趣的是，你所展现的技能——也就是我所说的，从你的作品和人生中看到的那份努力——那就是你从不回避艰苦的工作，你从未逃避它。

I know you mean, but what I, what is cool about it is, I think that the skill involved with the, you know, the hard work which is the theme I would say of looking at your body of work and your life is that you just have never shied away from hard work, You've never run away from it.

而且

And

背诵真的很难。

memorizing is really hard.

背诵，你知道吗，背诵其实是表演中最不难的部分。

Memorizing is, you know what memorizing is the least difficult part of acting.

我觉得最近我有点奇怪，是这样的

I I think I've these days I'm these days I'm funny, it's

很难。

so hard.

最近不是。

Not lately.

我也是，我只是觉得

Same, I was just like

当你有另一位演员直视着你的脸，等着你接台词时，这事儿就特别关键。我记得和梅丽尔·斯特里普拍《疑云密布》时就是这样，她有一句台词，我有一句，然后——突然停了。

You know when you have another actor looking in your face and they're waiting for the line, now I'm big with this is and then you know that someone has dropped, I I did this with Meryl Streep, you know, in doubt, she had a line, I had a line or whatever and then nothing.

我盯着她的脸，什么都没发生。

I'm looking in her face, nothing.

她什么也没说，我什么也没说，很明显是有人忘词了。

She's saying nothing, I'm saying nothing, it's obviously someone dropped the line.

是的。

Yeah.

然后我意识到，是她忘词了

And then I realize, she's the one who dropped

了。

the line.

天啊。

Oh my god.

谢天谢地。

Thank god.

梅丽尔·斯特里普竟然忘掉了

Meryl Streep And dropped the

于是我们又重拍了三次，那个场景重拍了三次，她每次都忘词。

so then we did it three more times, three more times that scene, she kept dropping the line.

是的。

Yeah.

在我脑子里我想：说那该死的台词啊。

And in my brain I was like, say the fucking line.

当然。

Of course.

但我不能对梅丽尔·斯特里普说：‘梅尔，你忘词了。’

But I can't tell Meryl Streep you forgot the line, Mel.

对。

Right.

你老是忘词。

You keep forgetting the line.

最后我们拍完了，她说：‘怎么感觉哪里不对劲？’

And finally, we did it and she was like, why does something feel off?

我说：‘因为你老是忘词。’

And And I said, because you you keep forgetting the line.

你忘词了，梅丽尔。

You forgot the line, Meryl.

她就说，我又不是完美的。

And she's like, I'm not perfect.

然后她明白了，直接说：那你为什么不早点说呢？

And then she knows, she just said, well, why didn't you say something?

但你确实说了啊。

And you did say something.

但莎士比亚本身让你感觉你真的必须……我想你的意思是，你必须一直沉浸其中，沉浸其中。

But but the Shakespeare itself feels just like you really got to, I guess your point you got to just keep living in it living in it.

至于莎士比亚，最难的地方就在这里。

Well, here's the hardest thing about Shakespeare too.

拜托。

Please.

你到底在说什么？

What the hell are you saying?

你到底在说什么

What the fuck are

你到底在说什么？

you saying?

还有抑扬格五音步，还有天啊，男演员们会恨死我的。

And also the iambic pentameter, and also, boy actors are going to kill me for this.

但我上过朱利亚德学院，你不想让它变得无聊。

But I went to Juilliard, and you don't want it to be boring.

听着，他们

Listen, they're

不会因为这个就恨你的。

not going to kill you for that.

关于莎士比亚，是这么回事。

Here's the thing about Shakespeare.

其实就是人们表演它、聆听它，然后这样反应。

All it is, is people acting it and listening to it and going like this.

我就想，你根本不知道自己在说什么。

And I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about.

我们也不明白你在说什么。

And we don't know what you're saying.

但问题是，如果你听不懂他们在说什么，那他们就没演对。

Well, here's the thing too and if you don't know what they're saying then they're not doing it correctly.

没错。

Exactly.

但你不能说：算了，太无聊了。

But you can't say you know what, it's boring.

我知道。

I know.

在朱莉亚德学院，我经常睡着。

At Juilliard, I would fall asleep a lot.

天啊，我有个朋友，只要我一进课堂，哪怕来的是世界上最好的演员、最顶尖的莎士比亚表演者，五分钟内我就会睡着。

Oh my god, I have a friend who it would piss her off as soon as I was in the class, we'd have the greatest actors, greatest Shakespearean actors in the world come to the school, within five minutes I would be dead asleep.

我会睡得连嘴唇都碰到膝盖上。

I would be knocked out with my lip hitting my lap.

她会说，我简直不敢相信你会这么做。

Mean, would be knocked and to this day she was like, I can't even believe you would do that.

我真不敢相信你会这么做。

I can't believe you would do that.

我说，你有没有想过，只是因为这让我提不起兴趣？

And I said, did you ever did it ever occur to you that it just didn't excite me?

嗯。

Mhmm.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但莎士比亚就是这样，你绝不能让它变得无聊，因为莎士比亚讲的都是关于人。

But that's the thing with Shakespeare, Shakespeare, you just don't want it to be boring because here's it's the just about people.

可以是国王，而且

To be can be kings and

女王。

queens.

意思是，这些剧大部分时候就像肥皂剧。

Mean it's a soap opera, most of the time those plays.

但谢谢你这么说，因为关于艺术本身，如果你找不到进入的方式，当别人都能理解时，你会感觉很奇怪，心想：这到底是什么？

But is it I mean, thank you for saying that because the thing about like art in general is, if you don't figure out how to find a way in, sometimes you feel really strange when everybody else is in there and you're like, what is it?

为什么我就是无法产生共鸣？

How come I can't connect?

是的，但艾米，让我告诉你，如果我们一味装深沉地谈论，人们是看不到其中深意的。

Yeah, but Amy, let me tell you something, we going down the road of talking by acting like it's real deep, people don't see it.

我觉得它很深，你也觉得它很深。

I see it as deep, you see it as deep.

但大多数人并不觉得它深。

Most people do not see it as deep.

因为再次强调，这是把你的存在误认为是事件本身。

Because once again, it's about mistaking your presence for the event.

是的，没错。

Yeah, that's right.

我的重点是爱情场景。

I mean, my big thing are love scenes.

我受不了爱情场景。

I can't stand love scenes.

我受不了看这些场景。

I can't stand watching them.

我受不了演这些场景。

I can't stand doing them.

我终于想出了逃避谋杀的方法。

I'm like, I finally said how to get away with murder.

我再也不拍爱情场景了。

I'm not doing any more love scenes anymore.

我的意思就是这样。

I mean, that's it.

你要是写个爱情场景，我就不演。

You you write a love scene, I'm not doing it.

除非你给我一个有肚子的男朋友。

Unless you give me a boyfriend who has a stomach.

等等，再说详细点。

Wait, say more.

一个大肚子。

A big gut.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道为什么吗？

And you know why?

为什么？

Why?

因为那样你才会真的写这个场景。

Cause you'll actually write the scene.

这根本不是关于脱掉衬衫和露出六块腹肌。

It won't be about taking off the shirt and the six pack abs.

没错。

That's right.

我的意思是，我一直在看，我跟比利·布朗拍过一场戏，我超爱他，比利·布朗，大家都喜欢他，但那是电视剧。

I mean I'm watching, I did a scene with Billy Brown who I love, Billy Brown, everyone and it's TV.

是的。

Yeah.

所以安妮尔丝·基廷躺在床上。

So Annalise Keating is in bed.

安妮尔丝·基廷跟很多人上过床，男人、女人，这跟我完全没关系。

Annalise Keating is sort of sleeps with a lot of people, men, women, which cannot be any opposite for me.

我的天啊。

I mean I'm like oh my god.

所以我在床上躺着，一切就绪，然后他起身只穿着内裤，他们直接把他的内裤脱掉，给他上妆，露出腹肌，接着他们让他走进浴室，再出来时手里拿着那种刷子，啪啪啪地拍在手上，假装是在拍我的屁股，他就这么啪啪啪地拍着。

So and I'm in the bed, I'm laying down and everything and then he gets up with his underwear and they I mean, they literally just taking his underwear down, putting his makeup on and he's got his abs and then they want him to walk into the bathroom and come out with you know one of those scrub brushes and slap it on his hand as if he's slapping my ass so he's like slap slap slap.

当我们说着台词的时候。

As we're saying the dialogue.

我在现场，艾米，我想说：停一下。

I'm in the scene, Amy, and I'm like, you gotta cut.

你得停一下。

You gotta cut.

请停一下。

Please cut.

那

That

就是请停一下。

is Please cut.

我的噩梦。

My nightmare.

那真是个噩梦。

That's a nightmare.

这简直是个噩梦。

It's a freaking nightmare.

那真是个噩梦。

That's a nightmare.

所以我当时说，如果角色有肚子，也许我们就不在床上了，而是聚焦在其他事情上。

So I said if you write someone with a gut, maybe we won't be in bed, maybe it'll be about everything else.

是的。

Yeah.

当我们终于接吻时，那是一种自然而然发生的感觉。

And then when we finally kiss, it's like something that's organically happening.

但对我而言，现在很多爱情场景都让我觉得，那正是去上厕所的时候。

But right now for me, a lot of love scenes it's like, that's the time to go to the bathroom.

你想去上厕所，回来时什么都没错过。

You want to pick up go to the bathroom, you come back, you haven't missed anything.

天啊，我懂你，我完全懂你。

Oh my god, I feel you, I feel you.

我拍得不多，但每次看到日程表上有吻戏，我就想，天啊，今天真是最糟的一天。

I've not done many, but the couple times it's been on the call sheet I'm like, oh no, this is this is the worst day.

顺便说一句，如果有人说‘我今天有吻戏’，那绝对是红灯警告。

And any by the way, anybody that's like, oh, I got a love scene today, red flag.

我得和汤姆·维里卡演一场吻戏，他本人真的特别友善，就是《逍遥法外》里的角色。我第一场吻戏其实是和比利·布朗演的，但那场被剪掉了，我真庆幸被剪了，因为那场戏是在费城的车里演的，当时气温零下12度。

I had to do a love scene with Tom Verica, who cannot be more lovely, How to Get Away with Murder, first love scene, well actually my first love scene was with Billy Brown and the and it got cut, and I'm so happy it got cut, because we were having sex on my car in in Philadelphia and it was 12 degrees.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我吓坏了。

I was terrified.

我人生第二场吻戏是和汤姆·维里卡演的，他在《逍遥法外》里演我丈夫。

First love scene in my life, but the second love scene, Tom Verica, who plays my husband, to get with murder.

我们在房车里准备拍吻戏时，化妆师问：‘你们需要遮盖什么吗？’

So we're getting prepared for the love scene in the trailer and the makeup artists are saying, so do you want anything to cover?

我的身上有妊娠纹。

I mean I have stretch marks.

是的。

Yeah.

我的身上到处都是妊娠纹，屁股上有，胳膊上也有，到处都是妊娠纹。

I mean I got stretch marks everywhere, I got stretch marks on my ass, I can stretch marks on my arms, I can stretch marks everywhere.

我就直说了。

I'm just gonna say it.

我们都有的。

We all do.

所以我就说，对，我要化妆。

And so I'm like, yeah, I want makeup.

我要在胳膊上也涂点粉底。

I want makeup on my arms.

是的。

Yeah.

我要在屁股上也涂点粉底。

I want makeup on my ass.

而且我脚踝上也涂了妆。

And it's like, I got makeup on my ankles.

嗯。

Mhmm.

好吧。

Okay.

他也在上妆。

He's getting makeup on.

我的意思是，我们基本上就是在往自己身上喷化妆品。

I mean, we're just basically spraying ourselves with makeup.

我们俩都吓坏了。

Both of us terrified.

好吧。

Okay.

然后，终于我迎来了那个重要时刻。

And then finally, I had the big moment.

我说，汤姆，我们就这么办。

I said, Tom, this is what we're going to do.

我们要为普通人展示它。

We're to hold it up for the regular people.

我们要为那些可能有点什么突出的东西的人们展示它，你知道的，不管是什么情况。

We're going to hold it up for the people out there who you know, may have a little bit of something sticking out there or whatever.

床上到处都是化妆品。

And there was a makeup all over the sheet.

床上、床上到处都是化妆品，你知道的，幸亏我的假发没掉下来，你知道的，那真是

Makeup all over the bed, you know, you know, thank God my wig didn't come off, you know, and that was

这根本一点都不性感，拍吻戏时，依我看，根本没什么性感可言，就是很难。

There was nothing sexy about it, nothing when you do a love scene, in my opinion, there's nothing sexy about it, it's just, it's hard.

你在生活中、在工作中寻找真实感，寻找事物真相的过程。

Your search for the realness and things like the way you're looking for the truth in things in your own life and in your work.

这与奥古斯都·威尔逊的作品如此完美地契合。

It dovetails so beautifully with August Wilson.

你能谈谈你对演绎他的作品的感受吗？以及他作为作家对你有多重要？

Can you talk about your how you felt about doing his work and like, well how important he is to you as a writer?

他很重要，因为他写的是黑人。

Well, he's important because he writes about black people.

他写的是我们的语调，是我妈妈、爸爸、父亲，是我们说话的方式，你知道的，是我倾听他们、与他们交谈的方式，这正是它的美妙之处，因为你知道，我去过朱利亚德学院，我们演的是乔治·伯纳德·肖、斯特里普，还有我深爱的契诃夫、莎士比亚，所以我演过布兰奇·杜波瓦。

It's our cadences, it's my mom, my dad, my father, it's how we talked, know, how I listened to them, how I talked, you know, and that's the beauty of it because, you know, otherwise, listen, I went to Juilliard, we were doing George Bernard Shaw, Streep, you know, Chekhov, who I love, you know, Shakespeare, so I did Blanche Dubois.

是的。

Yeah.

我的角色只是其中一场戏，但如果你读过布兰奇·杜波瓦，你就知道我根本不可能演得和她不一样。

I mean it was just a scene in it, but I have to do, if you've ever read Blanche Dubois, I could not be any different than Blanche Dubois.

她极其脆弱。

She's extremely fragile.

对。

Yeah.

你懂的，一位日渐凋零的美女皇后。

You know, fading beauty queen.

你知道，所有这些，当你看到和听到我，用我低沉的声音

You know, all of those things so to see and to hear me, you know, take my deep voice and

试图压低嗓音，模仿一个白人南方女性，然后

try to wheel it down and sound like a white southern woman and

做这一切的时候，我心想，天啊，我做不到。

doing all that, it was like, oh my, I can't do this.

我的意思是，我不该说我不行，我其实能做到。

I mean, I shouldn't say I can't do it, I can do it.

我可以转变，我可以做所有这些，但随后，你知道，观众会察觉到，让我忽略这样一个事实：这是一个声音低沉、自信且根基稳固的黑人女性，但有了奥古斯都·威尔逊的作品，我

I can transform, I could do all of that, but then, know, people in the audience have got it, you know, let me ignore the fact that this is a deep voiced black woman who is self possessed and very grounded and is not, but with August Wilson, I

不需要做这些

don't have

任何之一。

to do any of that.

是的。

Yeah.

我仍然得努力工作。

I still have to do the work.

但我可以用一种让我融入其中的方式去演绎作品，这就是奥古斯都·威尔逊作品的美妙之处。

But I could do a work in a way that invites me in, you know, and that's the beauty of that's the beauty of August Wilson.

你刚毕业三年就获得了托尼奖提名，我的意思是，你还记得得知自己获提名时的感觉吗？那一定是非常棒的感觉。

And you're nominated for a Tony three years after you get out of school I for mean, do you remember when you found out you were nominated, that must have been an incredible feeling.

我得知自己获提名的时候，那是很久以前了，那时候你得打电话去听答录机留言，我每天都会打电话，看看有没有试镜的消息。

I found out I was nominated, you know, back in the day, back in the day when you had those, answering machines that you had to call, you had to call the answering machine, I would call every single day to see if I had an audition.

于是我打了电话，当时我的经纪人说：‘维奥拉，你获得托尼奖提名了。’

So I called and my agent at the time said, Viola you got a Tony nomination.

天哪。

Oh my God.

我冲到父母家，他们根本不知道托尼奖是什么，我的小侄子小侄女们更不知道托尼奖是啥。

I ran to my parents house, they don't know what a Tony award is and my little nieces and nephews they don't know what the hell a Tony award is.

我冲进家门，对着那些还在穿尿布、到处乱跑捣蛋的小侄子小侄女们喊：‘你们听好了，我爱'

I ran in the house I said you guys, my little nieces and nephews that were in their diapers running around acting bad I love

糟糕

bad

我冲进家里说，伙计们，我获得了托尼奖提名。

I ran in the house I said you guys, I got a Tony nomination.

他们开始躺在地上打滚。

And they were, they started throwing themselves on the floor.

他们根本不知道托尼奖提名是什么。

They didn't know what the hell the Tony nomination was.

但我们所有人都一起跳了起来。

But we all just jumped in.

我的意思是，太棒了。

I mean, Yeah, come amazing.

来吧。

Come on.

在你成为全美知名演员之前，你早已是一位成就卓著的演员，出演过大量剧集，积累了丰厚的作品。

You were a very accomplished working actor on a lot of shows before a kind of America at Large New Year name, you had a really substantial body of work.

你觉得这让你意识到，就像那所谓的‘一万小时定律’，你付出了大量努力，频繁地工作，逐渐明白自己在电视剧、电影和舞台剧领域都能游刃有余，从而对自己的技艺充满信心吗？

Do you feel like that allowed you you know it was just like that ten thousand hours idea that you worked really hard and often and kind of figured out that you worked in TV worked in film you worked on stage, you like got to like feel confident in your skill.

是的，但再说一遍，这正是问题所在。

Yes, but once again, that's the task.

对，但并不是每个人都有这样的机会。

Yeah, but it's not always everyone's room.

明白。

No, understand.

是的，我理解这一点，而问题恰恰就在这里。

Yeah, and I understand that, and therein lies the problem.

是的，这个行业里人人都觉得他们能做，但当我还在古思里剧院，或在马萨诸塞州牛顿市工作的时候——我在牛顿市工作过——从没这么想过。

Yeah, with the business that anyone feels like they can do it, you know, but there was never a time when I was at the Guthrie Theatre or working in Newton, Massachusetts, I worked in Newton, Massachusetts.

我到处都工作过，和各种人合作过，亨廷顿剧院、ACT、马克·泰珀论坛、古德曼剧院，我以为自己已经成功了。

Every, I've worked everywhere, I've worked with everyone, Huntington Theatre, ACT, Mark Taper Forum, Goodman Theatre, I thought I'd already made it.

是的。

Yeah.

我做过。

I did.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道吗，每周赚6.5美元，做满十周后就能申请失业救济，于是你就领失业金，当然每个星期天你都要打电话申领，每周能拿到3.5美元，我想后来涨到了每周390美元。

You know making your $6.50 a week and then you did your ten weeks and then you qualified for unemployment, so you got your unemployment and sure you called in that unemployment every Sunday, got that $3.50, I think it went up to $390 a week.

我以为自己已经成功了，因为我可以说自己是个演员，但你确实得投入那些时间，才能建立起某种专业流程，因为我的想法是：每当我接一个角色，这是我作为演员的一个小执念——如果你对编剧有意见，你从不会对其他演员有意见，批评演员是绝对不行的。

I thought I'd already made it because I could say that I'm an actor, but you do have to put in those hours in order to have some level of a process because here's what I think, whenever I do a job, this is my thing with actors, it's a little bit of my pet peeve, a little bit, is this, if you have a criticism for a writer, you never have it for another actor, you don't criticize them, that's like a no no.

好吧，不管你是临时演员还是什么角色，你都不能告诉别人怎么演戏，那是导演的工作。

Okay, I don't care if it's a day player, you don't tell anyone how to act, that's the director's job.

但如果你对作品有意见，比如觉得这场戏不行，你就得说出为什么，并且知道怎么改进。

But Oh, love if you have a criticism of the work, if you say you know this scene is not working, you have to tell them why and you have to know how to fix it.

我再说一次，我在谈判时发现，98%的情况下，人们根本不知道怎么改进。

I will say, once again I'm negotiating, I would say 98 percent of the time people don't know how to fix it.

是的，这真是个极好的观点，因为我经常说，演员应该花一天时间当编剧，亲自接收演员的反馈，因为人们给编剧提意见的方式往往令人震惊。

Yeah, that's such a great point because I've often said that actors should spend a day, being a writer, getting notes from actors, because the way that people give writers feedback is often appalling.

就像这样，这不仅仅是演员，而是任何人接收反馈的方式都显得轻蔑且侮辱性。

It's like, this isn't, and not just actors anybody but like the way writers receive feedback is like dismissive it's insulting.

他们提不出解决方案，正如你所说，别人付出了巨大努力完成的作品，交出去后，人们却只是随便打开，几乎不认真看，连读都懒得读。

They don't have a fix like your, to your point, something they've worked really really hard on they hand it over and people just kind of like open it up and barely pay attention to it they barely read it.

他们连基本的词句都不懂，却在作品还没试演之前就妄加评判。

They don't know the words they don't, they don't they they're like challenging stuff before it's even tried out.

反过来，我总是对作家们说。

And then conversely, I always say to writers.

现在，换上别人的衣服。

Now, put on someone else's clothes.

没错。

That's right.

去那边煎个鸡蛋。

Go over there and scramble an egg.

对，就是这样。

Yep, exactly.

当你还记得的时候。

While you remember.

是的。

Yeah.

两页对话，而你知道的每个人都在房间的另一边，喝着咖啡，盯着你。

Two, two pages of dialogue, while everyone you know is on the other side of the room, drinking coffee looking at you.

然后我们就扯平了。

And then we're even.

是的，完全正确。

Yeah, absolutely.

每当你需要修改剧本的时候。

Whenever you have to fix a script.

有时候改东西根本没那么复杂，可能只是一个简单的选择，但问题在于，经过的筛选标准是：它会不会吸引更多观众？人们会不会想看？它能不能吸引18到34岁的男性观众来看这部电影？这一点很重要，艾米。

Sometimes it's really not that deep to fix something, it could be a simple choice, but what happens is the filter that goes through is okay, is it gonna get more viewers, are people gonna wanna see, is it gonna turn on 18 to 34 year old boys who come see the movie, that's a big one, Amy.

哦，是啊，我的意思是。

Oh yeah, I mean.

那些男孩。

The boys.

男孩，还有男人，会吗？男人会在意这个项目吗？

The boy and also will men yeah, will men care will men care about this project and it's

就像，我不是说《女巫国王》。

like, was I don't the woman king.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

我猜肯定有很多讨论，比如我们要确保男人来看，但真的需要吗？

I bet there was a lot of discussion about like, we want to make sure men show up and it's like, do we?

是的。

Yeah.

我们真的想让

Do we want to make

男人来看吗？

sure men show up?

像现在这样，我也是。

Like these days, me too.

我的意思是，也许他们不会来参加这个。

I mean, like, maybe they don't come to this one.

是的，正是如此。

Yeah, exactly.

不如我们干脆只做一个，就为我们自己做一个，只有一个。

How about we just make one, we just make one for us, just one.

我扮演的是一个戈杰战士，开场两分钟内我就砍下了五个人的头，也许这真的不适合他们。

I'm playing a gojer warrior, I've just chopped off five men's heads in the first two minutes, and maybe it's just not for them.

我的意思是，很多意见都提到，少点粗粝，多点胭脂。

I mean, it's like a lot of notes were, know, less dirt and more lipstick.

你是在开玩笑吗？

Are you freaking kidding me?

太疯狂了。

Wild.

你是在开玩笑吧？

Are you kidding me?

太疯狂了。

Wild.

我扮演的是戈吉战士，可我脑子里想的却是口红和睫毛延长。

I'm playing an Goji warrior and I'm thinking about lipstick and eyelash extensions.

那部电影里，你简直太酷了。

That film, you are so badass in that film.

那部电影太美了。

That film is so beautiful.

我太喜欢了。

I loved it.

你和你丈夫一起制作了它，为你们自己打造了它。

You and your husband produced it together, generated it, made it for yourself.

这真是一个绝佳的例子，用你手头的资源去创造这个项目。

Such an example of like taking the currency that you had and using it and making that project.

我想问你关于《女人帝国》的事，这部电影是基于真实故事的，有些人可能不知道，你能解释一下它基于什么吗？

And the thing I wanted to ask you about Woman King, The Woman King, is and for people that don't know it's, you know, based on a real story for people that don't know about a could you explain what it was based on?

它基于西非贝宁达荷美王国的奥戈德杰部落，时间大约是1854年，那是一支全由女性组成的军队，会出征攻打邻近的部落，比如约鲁巴部落。

It's based on the Ogodje, tribe, warriors in Dahomey in Benin, West Africa in like 1854, and they were all female army unit that would go out and fight neighboring tribes and, you know, Yoruba tribes.

现在，关于奥戈德杰战士，存在很多争议，因为他们会拥有奴隶。

Now, you know, the controversy is is there was a lot of controversy, you know, involved with the Algojio warriors, because they would have slaves.

明白了。

Okay.

我认为，这可能是人们主要不满的地方，另一个问题是，这部电影全是黑人演员。

I think ultimately that is what maybe people had problems with, and the other problem is, you know, it was an all black cast.

嗯。

Mhmm.

主要是女性演员阵容。

Mostly female cast.

嗯。

Mhmm.

主要是没有深究，因为时间永远不够，那些肌肉发达、能放倒男人的深色皮肤女性。

Mostly without getting into it, because there will never be enough time in the world, dark skinned females, who have muscles and who are taking men down.

我的意思是，我每天训练五个小时，我是这部电影里最年长的该死的战士。

I mean I trained for five hours a day and I was the oldest mother freaking warrior in the movie.

所以我们训练了整整几个月，每天五小时，进行徒手格斗。

So we trained five hours a day for months, hand to hand combat.

不过我得说，关于这部电影，我不打算深入讲太多，因为这部电影的内容太多了。

I have to tell you though with that movie, without getting too much into it, because there's a lot about that movie.

是的。

Yeah.

这对我来说非常重要。

That was like very important to

我。

me.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得女性当战士没什么大不了的。

I didn't think it was a big deal for women to be warriors.

对。

Right.

我觉得拥有‘女国王’这样的头衔也没什么大不了的。

I didn't think that it was a big deal to have a title like the woman king.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为首先，非洲有很多女性国王，她们确实被称为国王。

Because first of all there's a lot of kings who are women in Africa, they're actually called kings.

直到我们拍了这部电影，我才意识到这会引发争议。

I didn't know that that was going to be a controversy until we did it.

我觉得这太酷了。

I thought this is badass.

我的意思是，我甚至会把玩具马刀带回家，和我丈夫一起练习。

I mean I would take my toy machete home to practice with my husband.

我的意思是，不是在我丈夫面前，因为他会说，哎呀，这也太过了，但我真的直到开拍后才意识到这会是个大问题。

I mean not around my husband because he would say, oh, this this is a lot, but but, but I just didn't know it was a big deal until we started shooting it.

而且当时有人问，我们能不能把你的卷发弄松一点，看起来更漂亮些？

And there was, you know, can we make your curls looser and more pretty?

能不能做睫毛延长？

Could we do eyelash extensions?

也许换个标题。

Maybe a different title.

你

You

你知道的，这种整个削弱力度的做法。

know, this whole sort of watering down.

这种想法就是，别忘了保持温柔。

This idea of like just don't forget to stay soft.

是的。

Yeah.

就像你虽然是最坚强的战士，也别忘了保持一点可爱和温柔，因为天知道，你一旦完全释放自己的力量会怎样。

Like while you're the hardest warrior ever, don't forget to be a little bit cute and soft because God forbid, you just step into your full power.

当然，更不能让我对你失去吸引力。

Absolutely, and God forbid that you don't turn me on.

没错。

That's right.

不能让你看起来不够性感。

That you don't look sexy.

没错。

That's right.

而且你知道，这其实引出了美的价值这个话题。

And you know, it sort of leads into the whole thing of the value of beauty.

你知道，我

You know, I

我的意思是，我六十岁了，感觉特别棒，因为我就是那种很早就完成这一切的女性。

mean, I'm definitely like at 60 years old, I feel fabulous because I am one of those women, I got that done and over with very very early in life.

你知道吗，我同情那些年轻时很美、现在年纪大了，走进房间却没人注意的女性。

You know, I feel for beautiful women who were younger and now they're older and they walk in the room and no one's looking at them.

是的，当美貌是你最重要的资本时，这确实很艰难，因为美貌会消逝。

Yeah, that's tough when beauty is your number one currency because it goes away

很快。

fast.

没错。

Exactly.

它真的很无常。

It's really fickle.

是的。

Yeah.

但我要说，你之前谈到拍《女人国王》时，是如何在50多岁建立起与身体的新关系的。

And, but I will say and you spoke about this when you were doing The Woman King like the way in which you created this new relationship to your body in your 50s.

我觉得我认识的很多女性——我说的是我自己——开始真正地审视自己，然后想：好吧，这是我唯一的身体。

I think a lot of women I know a lot of women I know I speak for myself, you start to really take you really kind of look and you say okay this is my one body.

我真的意识到，我在二十几岁和三十几岁时把这些问题搁置一边，现在必须认真对待了。

I really you know the, the ways in which I got to kind of put it in the, on the back burner in my 20s and 30s I really have to pay attention to it now.

我曾经在这里开玩笑说，我们得摄入85克蛋白质，还得举重，但你真的做到了。

And I've joked on here like, we got to eat 85 grams of protein and we have to lift weights, but you did that.

你当时每天训练五个小时，你对自己有了什么新的认识？

You, what, what did you learn about yourself when you were training five hours a day and

你知道吗，艾米，那是我第一次穿着那件皮革似的衬衫、盔甲走进房间，肚子都露在外面。

You know what Amy, it was the first time I could walk into a room with that, it was a leather sort of shirt I had on armor that I had on and so my stomach was exposed.

那是我第一次能走进场地或房间，完全地与自己的身体融为一体。

It was the first time I can walk on the field and in a room and totally be in my body.

你知道，关于女性身体，我们被灌输了很多观念，觉得它必须漂亮，对吧？

You know, there is something about the female body, what you're sort of conditioned to believe about it, that it's got to be beautiful, right?

是的。

Yeah.

所以它必须瘦、必须漂亮，而它为什么必须漂亮、如何才能漂亮，总是与男性的吸引力挂钩。

So it's got to be thin and beautiful and the why and the how it has to be beautiful is always tied to male desirability.

没错。

That's right.

这从来不是关于能力。

It's never tied to being capable.

这关乎收缩。

It's tied to a shrinking.

是的，正是收缩，缺乏能力，不够强大，你知道的，这从来都不是我们的。

Yeah, exactly shrinking and not being capable, not being strong, not being, you know, it's never ours.

是的。

Yeah.

所以在练习时，我本来想撒个小谎。

And so even in the practicing, I was gonna lie a little bit.

我本来想撒个小谎。

I was gonna lie a little bit.

嗯，希望这有点累人，就像我希望你

Well, hope it was a little tiring, like I hope you

不，这才是谎言所在。

No, were tasery this is what the lie was.

好的。

Okay.

这就是谎言所在，艾米，因为好吧，

This is what the lie was, Amy, because Okay,

来点音乐，准备谈判。

cue music for negotiating.

你知道的，用图派克去打击他们。

You know, hit them up by Tupac.

我想说的是，因为在训练时，我们会做一小时的力量训练，三十分钟在跑步机上以10的速度跑步。

I was gonna say, you know, if you know, just in the in the practicing because we would do an hour of weight lifting, thirty minutes of running on the treadmill at 10.

不，我试过10，那简直是一场灾难。

No, I've done 10, that is a disaster.

连续三十分钟以10的速度，是冲刺吗

Thirty minutes straight of 10 o, like was it sprints

还是什么？

or what?

该死。

God damn it.

然后三个半小时，我的意思是，到最后，你看到那些年轻女孩，她们身上都有一点汗水。

And then three and a half hours, I mean by the end, I mean and you saw all these young girls they'd have a little sweat on their bodies.

我今天肯定能出三小时的汗。

I would sweat out three for sure today.

所以我会去跳编舞三个半小时，同时还要对付八个七号的男生，好吧，八个七号的男生。

So I would go to choreo for three and a half hours and you're taking down eight seven dudes at the same time, okay, eight seven dudes.

我想说的是，那真的很棒，因为我终于能接触到以前从未触碰过的自己，那都是胡说八道。

What I was gonna say is, you know it was it was so great because then I could really tap into the part of me that I never tapped into before, that's bullshit.

我一直是那个想揍人一顿的女孩，可能真的揍过几次，但那段经历给了我这么做的许可。

I was always that girl that wanted to kick someone's ass and probably did a couple of times, but it gave me permission to do it.

是的。

Yes.

而且我说，有个家伙身高六英尺四英寸，体重却只有六十公斤，天哪。

And I mean, there was one guy that huge six'four to sixty, I mean come on.

这太刺激了。

That's exciting.

然后我感觉好像

And then make and I felt like

我能做到。

I could do it.

是的，是的。

Yeah, yeah.

现在我现实中能不能做到，谁知道呢，但那种感觉就是我能做到。

Now whether I could do it or not in real life, who knows, but the feeling like I could.

你曾与如此出色的演员对戏，比如丹泽尔，提到过梅丽尔，还和查德维克合作过。

You have stood toe to toe with such amazing actors Denzel, talked about Meryl, you worked with Chadwick.

当你和这么棒的人在一起时，你处于那种状态，我想问你，那感觉就像参加世界大赛一样，是什么感觉？

When you're in that zone with people that good, and you're like what is it I guess I guess I'm like, I'm asking you like what's it like to be in the World Series.

是的，正是如此。

Yes, exactly.

而且别尿裤子。

And not piss in your pants.

嗯，梅丽尔就是那样。

Well, Meryl that was it.

是的，我的意思是她是最棒的，她太出色了。

Yeah, I mean she's the best, she's so great

而且很幽默。

and funny.

而且幽默又酷。

And funny and cool.

而且很酷。

And cool.

你简直可以既如此出色，又如此酷。

It's like you could be that great and that cool.

嗯，你也是这样的。

Well, you're like that too.

这就是为什么你们这么出色，因为你们太优秀了，根本不需要当混蛋，你们知道自己有多厉害。

That's why you guys are so good because you're you're so good that you don't have to be assholes because you know how good

你们有多厉害。

you are.

而且你们知道那些混蛋。

And you know those assholes

在外面。

out there.

因为他们没那么厉害。

Because they're not that good.

你知道，或者说我该说，他们不是被不安全感驱使，所以你和梅丽尔当然会相遇，你们是朋友，彼此尊重。

You know, or I should say they're not being led by insecurity so you're you and Meryl meet of course you guys are friends and like respect each other

因为但你们俩我都一直追随她。

because But you both I followed her everywhere.

在片场？

On set?

在片场。

On set.

我的意思是，到了那种程度，你知道，当你对自己说：好吧，明天我不会再那样做了，因为我觉得那样没让她感到舒服。有一段时间，她从不承认这一点，可能她自己都记不清了，但她当时正要去片场，而我却在努力阻止她去。

I mean to the point where it was like, you know when you say to yourself, okay, tomorrow I'm not going to do that because I don't think it made her it didn't make her feel comfortable because at one point, she would never admit this, she probably doesn't remember it, but she was going to set and I was trying to keep her from going to set.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为我太兴奋了，所以我就问：进展怎么样？

Because I was too excited so I was like, so how's it going?

她回答：哦，还不错，待会儿见。

She was like, oh good, so I'll see you later.

她正上楼梯，然后我又问：所以，进展还顺利吧？

She was going up the stairs and then I was like, so so it was going good, right?

所以那天真的很好，而当你知道有人正想做某事，你却在阻止他们——哦，是的。

So so the day was really good and you could, you know when someone's trying to do something and you're stopping them from doing it Oh yeah.

他们不想对你无礼地说‘闭嘴吧，我得去片场了’。

They don't feel like, they don't wanna be rude to you by going shut the fuck up, I gotta get to set.

所以她表现得非常友善，我就说：好吧，那待会儿见。

So she was being really nice And I said, okay, so I'll see you later.

对吧？

Right?

所以我下周要上班。

So I work next week.

所以我下周要上班，你知道的，她就说，是的。

So I work next week and, you know, she was like, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是第一天的情况。

So that was the first day.

然后我就想，明天我不会再这样做了。

And then I was like, I'm not gonna do that tomorrow.

所以明天我不会那样做了。

So I'm not gonna do that tomorrow.

我第二天又回去了。

I went back tomorrow.

哦，是啊，我的意思是，而且

Oh yeah, mean And

我到了现场，坐在那里，然后盯着她，特别害羞。

was set, was sitting there and then I'm staring at her and I'm really shy.

嗯。

Mhmm.

她没那么害羞，有点害羞，但没那么严重。

She's not that shy, she's sort of shy but not that shy.

所以我就没说，因为我不太擅长闲聊。

So then I don't, because I'm not good with small talk.

嗯。

Mhmm.

于是我沉默了好久，然后说：‘我给你倒杯茶好吗？’

And I go, longest pause, and then I said, can I get you some tea?

她说：‘不用了，宝贝，你不用给我倒茶。’我就说：‘好的。’

And she said, she said, no baby, no you don't have to get me any tea and I was like, okay.

所以我再也想不出别的话了。

So I couldn't think of anything else.

我一直在盯着她看，你知道，当你一直盯着别人看时，能看得出她其实很努力地保持礼貌，而我唯一能想到的就是：‘你的皮肤真好。’

I kept staring, staring and you could tell, you know when you stare, you could tell she was really trying to be gracious and the only thing I could come up with, I was like, you got beautiful skin.

我知道。

I know.

我确实对梅丽尔·斯特里普说过这句话。

I actually said that to Meryl Streep.

哦，真的吗？

Oh, would.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道为什么吗？

And you know why too?

因为他们讲了故事。

Because they told stories.

来吧，最原始、最肮脏、最搞笑的喜剧大师是理查德·普赖尔。

And come on, the original dirty of the dirtiest of the funniest is Richard Pryor.

是的。

Yeah.

每当我情绪低落时，我都会一遍又一遍地播放他的现场演唱会。

Whenever I feel down I play that live in concert over and over and over again.

天哪，这简直太棒了。

Oh my God, that's just the best.

他讲到自己的孩子，有一段讲到他不会游泳，每次跳进泳池都会溺水。

And he talks about his kids, one part where he talks about his kids and how he doesn't know how to swim and every time he gets into the pool, he's drowning.

他 basically 溺水，而他的孩子们却说：爸爸，你太搞笑了。

He's basically drowning and his kids are like, daddy, you're so funny.

他就说：你们这些混蛋，我快淹死了，你们知道吗。

And he's like, you motherfuckers, I'm drowning, you know.

我喜欢这一点，

It's like, I love that,

你知道的。

you know.

好吧，在我们结束之前，我想聊聊你的书，因为我觉得你和写作的关系很有趣，我的意思是，我确信你有——我们之前也聊过，关于当你演戏、写作，以及和编剧合作时，那种写作是什么样子的。

Okay, now I want to get to your book before we finish because, you know, your relationship to writing is an interesting one to me I mean I'm sure you have, you know, we talked about it earlier this idea of like when you're acting and you're writing and you're working with writers and what that kind of writing looks like.

而当你写书、写小说时，又是一种完全不同的写作方式。

And then there's the different kind of version of writing when you're writing book when you're writing fiction.

当你写回忆录时，更是另一种形式，而你的回忆录大获成功，你还拿了格莱美奖。

And when you're writing a memoir, and which your memoir was a huge hit, you won the Grammy.

你的EGOT成就就是靠这个，

That was your EGOT was your.

当你为录音朗读你的书时。

When you did the recording of it, when you read your book on tape.