威尔·福特

各位，欢迎收听新一期的《Good Hang》。今天我非常激动地向大家介绍我们的嘉宾——威尔·福特。威尔是一位杰出的演员、表演者、编剧，也是我的好友，我们几乎同时期在《周六夜现场》起步。

Everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. I'm very excited to introduce our guest today. It is Will Forte. Will, amazing actor, performer, writer, and my good friend who started at SNL pretty much the same time as me.

我们会聊到那些早年岁月。今天，我们将谈及他精彩的《周六夜现场》试镜经历，探讨他如何成为《大金刚》游戏高手，还会讨论他与蒂娜·菲在Netflix上合作的新剧《四季酒店》。说到蒂娜·菲，我们正邀请她加入节目，给嘉宾威尔·福特提个问题。

So we get into those early years. Today, we talk about his amazing SNL audition. We talk about how he became incredible at Donkey Kong. And we also talk about the Four Seasons, the great new show that he's on Netflix currently with Tina Fey. And speaking of Tina Fey, we are asking Tina to join us and give us a question to ask our guest Will Forte.

蒂娜是我们播客的老朋友了，这是她第三次参与。严格来说，我们可能该开始付她酬劳了。蒂娜，嗨。贝蒂，能听到我说话吗？

And Tina is a friend of the pod. This is her third appearance. And technically, we probably need to start paying her. Tina, hi. Betty, can you hear me?

本期节目由Athleta赞助播出。夏日已至，是时候走出户外活动起来了。Athleta为女性提供随心而动的装备——从海滩休闲慢跑到竞技公路赛，各类跑步短裤一应俱全。

This episode is presented by Athleta. Summer is here. It's time to get outside and get active. And Athleta has just what women need to move the way they want. That's shorts for every type of run from a casual jog on the beach to a competitive road race.

有球场穿的网球裙，凉爽的拉伸裤，还有总能完美搭配的背心式运动内衣和上衣。要选择时尚创新的运动服饰，唯有Athleta——女性的力量。立即登录athleta.com选购。你在看谁呢？

There's skorts for on the court and pants for cool stretching. And there's always a match back bra and top to complete your outfit. For stylish, innovative activewear, the choice can only be Athleta, power of she. Shop now at athleta.com. Who are you looking at?

那是泰迪。

That's Teddy.

泰迪。哦，没错，泰迪刚才回应她了？还是他？

Teddy. Well, yes, Teddy just responded to her? His?

是他。

He his.

他的名字？泰迪？泰迪。泰迪。

His name? Teddy? Teddy. Teddy.

真希望你也能闻到他，臭不可闻。

Oh, I wish you could smell him. Smells terrible.

贝蒂，我们刚才在说你是播客的官方最佳好友，因为这是你第三次上节目了。

Betty, we were just saying that you are the official best friend of the pod because this is the third time you have been on the

播客。耶。

pod. Yay.

谢谢你能来。

Thank you for being here.

我想要一件三连胜者的夹克。

I want a three timer's jacket.

是啊，就像《周六夜现场》会给你一件又厚又不合身的睡袍那种。

Yeah. Just like SNL will give you, like, a really heavy, ill fitting robe.

一件非常不衬人的夹克。嗯。每次都得穿。

A really unflattering jacket. Mhmm. You have to wear every time.

我们正在纽约与你对话，是的。今天我们邀请到了伟大的威尔·福特。是的。顺便恭喜你的节目，我非常喜欢。

We're talking to you in New York, and Yes. We're we're talking to the great Will Forte today. Yes. Congratulations, by the way, on your show. I love it.

你。你我们会趁他在这儿的时候宣传一下，但四季《四季》已经在Netflix上线了。

You. You We're for watching gonna be plugging it while he's here, but four season the four seasons out on Netflix.

目前正在Netflix上播放。

Currently streaming on Netflix.

没错。对吧，泰迪？对吧，泰迪？然后还有给泰迪和其他狗狗看的狗狗版本。

Yep. Right, Teddy? Right, Teddy? And then there's a dog version for Teddy and other dogs.

嗯。狗狗版本的要暗沉许多。

Mhmm. The dog version is a lot darker.

和相识这么久的人共事是什么感觉？有哪些好处

What has it been like working with someone that you've known for so long? And what's good

和威尔合作之所以如此轻松，是因为我们之间有种默契。就像在SNL工作时，你通过潜移默化了解同事——毕竟一起熬过那么多通宵，甚至能直接从桌上抓个冷肉丸在他旁边吃。虽然我们没怎么直接合作写剧本，我也从没单独和威尔吃过晚餐，但这种渗透式的相处让我感到非常自在。

It's about what it was so easy to work with Will. And we have said, like, you know, when you work with people at SNL, it's you just know them by osmosis because you just stay up all night with them so many times. You eat like a meat cold meatball off the table next to them, even if you're not working directly together that much. Because Will and I didn't really write together or, you know, like, I don't think we, I don't think I've never had dinner with like just Will, like, but it's just all osmosis. And so I just was very comfortable with him.

我们之间有种心照不宣的默契。我从不担心他会生我的气或不喜欢我，你知道的，就是

I feel like we had a shorthand. I feel like I was never worried that he would be mad at me or not like me. You know, was just

很轻松。

like easy.

而且我知道他是个超级工作狂，因为他真的是最拼命的。他能把自己累垮。

And I knew he is a super hard worker because he is the hardest worker. Like, he'll work himself to death.

我今天才听说他在2024年每天坚持走两万步。

I just found out today that he did 20,000 steps a day, every day for the year 2024.

两万步，至少。他像戴电子脚环似的记步数，拍戏时把计步器藏在戏服底下。他会念叨'我今天走到两万步了'，甚至凌晨五点就起床，在来片场前先完成一万步。

20,000, yeah, at least. And he would it almost like a court ankle bracelet. He would wear it under his costume when we were filming and he would talk about how we got. I got 20,000 steps and he would like get up at 05:00 in the morning before he came to the shoot to get the first 10,000. Yeah.

我还发现他一个特点——虽然他的家人朋友都很爱他，但不知为何他对赞美特别饥渴。要是你说'刚才表现很棒'，他就像干涸一周的植物突逢甘霖，连声道谢。

He also one thing I know I learned about him is he. And I know his family and friends do love him, so I don't know why he is this way, but I feel like he is so responsive to any words of praise. If you say like, well, you did a great job on that. He's like, he's like a plant that nobody watered for a week. He's like, thank you so much.

那种感激之情溢于言表。我知道你妻子对你很好，但他真的...我觉得他的爱语就是肯定的话语。

Like, he's so grateful. Like, I know your wife is nice to you, but he just really I think his love language is words of affirmation.

知道这个真是太好了。

That's so good to know.

告诉他他在播客上做得太棒了，然后看着他脸上绽放光芒。他肯定会容光焕发的。

Telling him he's doing a great job on the podcast and watch his face light up. He's gonna light up.

这太真实了，因为我是说，夸他优秀实在太容易了——他不仅超级风趣、是个出色的作家、为人也特别好，而且他本可以成为另一个世界里的金融精英。就像，他完全可以从事那种工作。

It's so true because I mean, and it's so easy to talk about how great he is because he is so not only is he so funny and a great writer and a really nice person, but he he could have been in another world like a finance bro. Like, he's or a job.

真有意思艾米，因为我本来最想问他的就是：如果没进入喜剧行业会怎样？我知道和他聊天时听说他干过各种奇怪工作。他描述人生片段的方式让我觉得他简直像永生者——比如有次他突然跑去阿拉斯加当鲑鱼渔夫？这经历也太多了吧？

So interesting, Amy, because that was the main question I thought to ask him was I would like to know if he had not ended up in comedy, because I know anecdotally from talking to him that he had a lot of weird jobs. You know, he was like, he's not like it's almost like he's immortal because he describes chunks of his life. I'm like, that's too many chunks. Like, what do you mean that one time you went up to Alaska and were a salmon fisherman? Like, what do you mean?

他做过五花八门的工作。我在想如果他没成为喜剧编剧兼演员，现在会是什么样？放在不同时代的话，我觉得他可能会是七十年代特别火的游戏节目主持人，然后...像那些连环杀护士的凶手。

So he's had all kinds of jobs. And I wonder if he had not ended up a comedy writer and then a performer, what would he have been? What would it become of him? Great question. If in another era, if he lived in another era, I feel like he would have been a really popular seventies game show host who then, like, killed a bunch of nurses.

然后马克·哈蒙就会在电影里扮演他。

And then they would like Mark Harmon would have played him in a movie.

没错。很合理。

Yep. That makes sense.

不过说真的，如果他走了另一条路人生会怎样？

But, yeah, like, what what would his life be like if he had gone a different route?

我还想和他聊聊他创造的那些角色，感觉它们就像是跟着他一起进入《周六夜现场》的。他带去了那么多角色。你还记得他的试镜表演吗？

And I'm going to talk to him just a little bit about some of his characters because I feel like they just are so Like, they just kind of came with him in SNL. He had so many that he brought. But do you remember his audition?

有点印象，我记得他演了蒂姆·卡尔霍恩——那个竞选公职时特别安静的候选人，还演了那个臭名昭著的银脸彩绘怪人。

I kind of do because I remember he did, I think he did Tim Calhoun, the really quiet guy running for office is really quiet. And he did that kind of infamous silver face paint guy.

是啊。

Yeah.

他的喜剧风格确实独树一帜。他的声音，当你想到麦格鲁德、猎鹰者这些角色，还有那个跳舞的足球教练，以及万圣节短剧里他扮演那个不得不告诉大家自己是登记在案性犯罪者的家伙。他的表演，或是那次他把可爱的妈妈带到周末更新节目，本打算致敬她，结果却说'等你死了我肯定会很难过'。他的幽默感真是古怪至极。

His comedy is so truly unique. His voice, when you think of like McGruder and the Falconer and all these and like all the kind of, you know, the dancing football coach and the the Halloween sketch where he's the guy who has to tell everybody he's a registered sex offender. His his or like the time he brought his lovely mom onto a weekend update and just like. Was like going to tribute her, but it was just like, when you die, I'm going be so sorry about that. He has such a weird sense of humor.

我很好奇是什么样的喜剧经历塑造了他，因为我觉得他的灵感来源肯定和别人不一样。你懂我意思吗？究竟是怎样的喜剧观看经历和童年现实创伤，才造就了他这种独特的喜剧风格？

I wonder what comedy things shaped him because I don't think it's the same stuff as everybody else. You know? But, like, what like, what combination of comedy viewing and real life childhood trauma made this made his comedy this?

他身上有种顽劣的特质。没错。在你们互相扔东西的某些场景里，我隐约感觉到了。哦对。就是那种，这算是他的一个小特长吧。

There's like a mischievous streak in him. Yes. I felt it a little bit in some of the scenes when you guys were throwing stuff at each other. Oh, yeah. Like, there was a little bit was like, that is a little forte.

没错。他用杯子砸中我时，而且我看起来是真的生气了。但同时他那种乖宝宝的一面又因为第一次尝试就砸中我而特别开心。只要是和运动沾边的事他都喜欢。

Yes. That he hits me with a cup and Yes. And I look genuinely really mad. And but also he was like the the obedient part of him was, like, so happy that he hit me up with the cup on the first try. He likes anything that's close to sports.

好的。贝蒂，感谢这次相聚。爱你。回头见。拜拜。

Alright. Thank you, Betty, for this time. Love you. See you soon. Bye.

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This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Summer is here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered by Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost? Well, you can't get a summer blockbuster delivered, but you can get a block of cheese. A cabana?

这个不行。但香蕉呢？这个可以。知道我喜欢在Uber Eats上点什么吗？电池。

That's a no. But a banana? That's a yes. You know what I like to order from Uber Eats? Batteries.

别吃电池，但我经常需要电池，而Uber Eats就能送电池上门。用Uber Eats几乎能配送几乎所有东西。现在下单。购买酒精饮料需达到法定饮酒年龄，请理性饮酒。

Don't eat batteries, but I often need batteries, and you can get batteries from Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

商品供应因地区而异，详情请见应用。好了，正式开场。我们今天的嘉宾是威尔·福特。

Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Okay. I'll officially start. We are with Will Forte.

我们正与第四代奥维尔·威利斯·福特在一起。

We are with Orville Willis Forte the fourth.

第四代。是的。

The fourth. Yes.

你是第四代奥维尔。

You are the fourth Orville.

如果别人不说第四代，我总会很生气。

I'm always pissed if somebody doesn't say the fourth.

我知道。你喜欢

I know. You like

有时人们会说第三代，这就好像，那真是

Sometimes people say the third, and it's like, that's

我的错。还有

my bad. Also

显然。

Obviously.

我总想说奥维尔·威尔伯·福特，但不是。是威利斯·福特。

My mouth wants to say Orville Wilbur Forte, but it's not. It's Willis Forte.

奇怪的是，我能接受威尔伯。因为这个名字有点趣味。但第四代这个称呼——如果你搞错了就是不尊重。他们给我取名第四代是有原因的。

Oddly, I'd accept that. I'm totally fine with Wilbur just because that's the there's something fun about it. But the fourth is just that's disrespectful if you get the fourth wrong. They named me the fourth, like, for a reason.

好吧，告诉我因为谁，因为你很早在我们相识时就告诉过我你爱我。所有名字都因为你现在叫威尔，但你小时候不叫威尔对吧？你那时叫——

Well, tell me who because I love you told me this very early on when we met. The names of all of because you go by Will, but you did not go by Will as a kid. Right? You went by

我小时候叫比利，但后来——我出生于1970年。开始上学后，我总听到比利·简·金的名字，人们会说'你有个女孩名'。这成了件大事，所以我坚决表示'我不叫比利了'。

I was Billy as a kid, but then it was I was born in 1970. So when I started going to school, I started hearing about Billie Jean King, and people were like, you have a girl's name. And that was like a big deal. Like so so I was like, I am not Billy.

我是——我是威尔。威尔。

I am I am Will. Will.

就是这样——对，就是这样。大概五六岁时我就强行要求改名了。

That's And that's how that's how yeah. I think I just demanded a a name change at, like, five or six years old.

明白了。后来你叫威尔，那你父亲叫——

Okay. But then you went by Will, then your dad went by

老爸叫叛逆者。对。因为他在北方出生——韦斯顿市，马萨诸塞州。

Dad was rebel. Yeah. Because he was born up by you. He was Weston, Massachusetts. Yep.

他算北方佬地界的人，但出生在新奥尔良。二战期间他父亲驻扎在南方叛逆者地盘——虽然那时应该不这么叫了。反正大家开玩笑叫他'叛逆者'。

So he's from Yankee territory, but he was born in New Orleans. His dad was stationed down in in rebel territory during World War two. I don't think it was still I mean yeah. Yeah. So he went by, as a joke, they called him Rebel.

后来他就叫瑞布了对吧？现在还用这名字。

And he went by Reb. Right? He still goes by Reb.

现在还叫瑞布。老爷子身体硬朗，还在滑雪呢。快82岁了——三周后就82岁生日，照样滑雪。

He still goes by Reb. He's still around. Still skis. 80 almost 82. 82 in about three weeks, and he still skis.

我必须说，你父母都很有魅力。四季酒店首映式上见到你妈妈帕蒂和瑞布了，你父亲真是位英俊的银发帅叔。

I I'm here to say both your parents just attractive people. I just saw Patty, your mom, and Reb at the Four Seasons premiere. Your dad is a handsome silver fox.

他现在算是只白狐狸了。

He's it's he's kind of a white fox now.

是啊，他真是只白狐狸。真的。完全融进雪地里了。

Yeah. He's a white fox. Really. Yeah. He's blending into the snow.

帕蒂看起来美极了。

Patty looks incredible.

对吧？她都快82岁了，可有人还以为她六十多岁呢。

Right? Yeah. She Yeah. She's about to turn 82 also, and she if somebody there are people who think she's in her, like, mid sixties.

没错，她的皮肤状态好得惊人。你们家的基因真强大。

Yeah. She has, like, incredible skin. Yeah. You have very good genes.

是啊。

Yeah.

威尔·福特，今天你能来我特别激动，感觉我们就像是从同一所喜剧高中毕业的。每次见面都像老同学重逢——蒂娜也这么说，我们仿佛通过某种渗透作用共同度过了无数时光。

Will Forte, was so excited to have you come today because I feel like all of us in we, like, all went to the same comedy high school or something. Like, we all graduated at the same time at a from a place. And I feel like when we all see each other, it just feels like we like, in fact, I was talking Tina was talking about this. Like, it just feels like we all, through osmosis, just got to spend so many hours together. Yes.

我们确实共同经历了很多

Like, we really spent

生命中的重要阶段，比高中情谊更深厚，就像真正的家人。五十周年聚会时这种感觉特别明显。

a huge chunk of our lives. More than a high school experience. It's like a family Yeah. Like a a a real family. And and that fiftieth really Yeah.

很多素未谋面的人却让你觉得熟悉，就像温馨的归乡之旅。你们彼此久仰大名，终于见面时那种'天啊终于见到你了'的感觉——但对我们这些真正长期共事过的人来说，你们确实都是家人。

Showed it too because there'd be a lot of people that you didn't meet that you felt like you knew, and it was just such a, like, a warm homecoming with those people that, like, you've heard of them. They've heard of you, and it's just like, oh my god. I'm finally meeting you. It it was but but, I mean, for somebody you went through it with Yeah. For as long as we did, yeah, that that you guys are all family.

我知道。你在五十周年庆上有没有第一次见到之前从未谋面的人？比如，你以前从未见过的那种。

I know. And did you meet anybody at the for the first time at the fiftieth that you had never met? Like, that you had never

有。梅兰妮·胡策尔。嗯。亚当·德赖弗，我之前没见过他，他非常友善。内森·连恩也在场。

Yes. Melanie Hutzel. Mhmm. Adam Driver, I had never met, and he was so sweet. Nathan Lane was there.

就是这类人物。简直太令人欣喜了。然后最精彩的是，就在我们完成漫长的彩排后。我们注意到保罗·麦卡特尼就坐在看台上。有人问他，你要留下来吗？

Just people like that. So it was just a delight. And then the capper was, like, right after we go through this long rehearsal. We had noticed Paul McCartney just hanging out in the bleachers. And somebody said, are you sticking around?

因为保罗·麦卡特尼正在做音响调试。我们都说太棒了。所以我留下来，给我妻子和女儿打了电话，那天正好是我女儿四岁生日。我说，现在就把佐伊从床上叫起来，立刻过来。

Because Paul McCartney is doing sound check right now. So we're like, fantastic. So I just hung around and called my wife and and my daughter whose birthday, her it was her fourth birthday. So I said, get Zoe out of bed right now. Get over here.

她当时在睡午觉，所以有点不情愿。

She's like, she's you know, because she was taking a nap.

所以我说，把她叫醒，马上叫醒。

So I said, get her up. Get her up.

我当时特别凶。我说立刻给我过来。扇她一巴掌。我要离开你。我要离开这个家。

I was so mean. I was like, get down here right now. Slap her. I'm leaving you. I'm leaving this family.

于是她赶紧带着女儿跑来，我拍下了这段无价的视频，记录她看保罗·麦卡特尼唱歌的样子。那是《Golden Slumbers》组曲的尾声部分。

So it's so she run runs her down, and and I have this just priceless video of, like, her watching Paul McCartney singing. It was the very end of, like, you know, the the whole Golden Slumbers medley.

佐伊就是那个第一次吃冰淇淋的女儿吗？

Is Zoe the daughter that had that ate the ice cream for the first time?

对。就是这个女儿。她在这儿。这是塞西莉亚，那边是佐伊。

Yes. She's this daughter right here. She's this one. There's Cecilia right there, and there's Zoe.

兄弟们，听众们，威尔·福特刚提起裤腿给我们看了印着他女儿们脸的袜子。你从哪儿搞到这些袜子的？

Bro, listeners, Will Forte just lifted up his pants and showed us socks that has his daughter's faces on them. Where did you get those socks?

我妻子给我买的，像是每个圣诞节、父亲节、生日都会送。我就想要这个。我大概90%的袜子上都印着特别的人的脸。我整天

My wife gets them for me, like, every every Christmas, every Father's Day, every birthday. It's all I want. All like, I would say 90% of my socks have somebody special's face on them. I'm walking on

所以你有个

So you have a

家人时刻相伴。

my family all the time.

你有两个女儿，四岁和几岁来着？

You have two daughters, four and what?

四岁和两岁半。

Four and two and a half.

好吧

Well

她们太可爱了。是啊，我要孩子比较晚。我妻子在我第一次...我想是在第一个孩子出生前，她给我做了件连帽衫，上面写着'爸爸还是爷爷？'的问号。

They're so cute. Yeah. I started late. My wife got me when I first when I first was I think it was before the first one was born. She got a sweatshirt that she had made that said dad or grandpa, question mark.

简直太棒了。大多数人肯定会觉得是爷爷。不。绝对不可能。

Just so great. And definitely most people would probably go, grandpa. No. For sure. No way.

作为高龄爸爸

As an older dad

你竟敢这样？

How dare you?

你经历过很多种人生。比如，在我们于《周六夜现场》相遇之前，你有过许多不同版本的自己。我是说，你在进入喜剧行业前曾从事金融工作。

You've lived a lot of lives. Like, you you have a lot of versions of you before we met at SNL. You were I mean, you were in you were in finance before you worked in comedy.

是的。但我几乎算不上真正进入——我当时只是个实习生，而且那是我父亲的职业。所以对当时的我来说这是件大事，因为我觉得自己注定要走这条路，仅仅因为父亲这么做了。我总想着'我要追随他的脚步'，但真正做起来时却感觉'这不太对劲'。

Yeah. But I was barely in I I was like it was a I was an intern, and it was what my dad did. So it was I I it it was a big deal to me back then because it's what I thought I was gonna do just because my dad did it. So I always thought, oh, I'll follow in his footsteps. And then as I was doing it, was like, oh, this doesn't feel right.

嗯。

Yeah.

可能只是因为...我为这个人工作，他是个好人，但工作内容实在无聊。我的任务就是替他打电话，等接通后立刻转给他。这样我就不用面对向客户推销产品这种既可怕又刺激的环节。

Maybe it's just because, you know, I was working for this guy, and he was a nice guy, but it's like, you know, it was the thing that I was doing was kind of boring. I would just, like, call people on his behalf, and then right when I'd get them on the line, I would send them over to him. So I wouldn't have to, like, do the scary and exciting part of, like, trying to sell a product to this guy.

用电话？

On the phone?

对。就是帮这个人联系客户——我不想说出他的名字。他是个好人，但我...

Yeah. It's just like, get the person on the phone. For this guy out of his out of I I don't wanna say his name. Just he's a nice guy, but I like

明白。

Yeah.

我过去提过这事...我不确定他是否愿意出现在我的故事里。不过他确实很好——他叫布雷特，是个好人。

I just I've I've said it in the past. I'm like, oh, I I don't know if he wants to be part of my stories. But he's he was great. But at a certain point, he's he said, his name's Brett. He's a nice guy.

我觉得他不会在意的。

I don't think he'd care.

不，他不会在意的。

No. He won't care.

是啊。但他在某个时刻说，你知道吗？我要让你通过Series 7考试，然后你过来成为我团队里的初级成员之类的。就在那一刻我意识到，我了解自己。如果我答应这件事，我就永远无法抽身了。

Yeah. But he at a certain point, he said, you know what? I want you to I'm gonna put you through the series seven, and and you'll come over and be part of my like, the junior guy in my team or some something like that. And I just it was at that point that I was like, oh, I know myself. And if I if I agree to this, I will never leave.

我的态度会是——这家伙冒险给了我机会，我不能就这样辜负他。

Like, I wouldn't I wouldn't go like, oh, this my attitude would be this guy went out on a limb, took a chance on me. I'm not gonna just f him over.

但当你来SNL时，我记得你已经有光环了。因为传闻说他在经纪公司工作过，然后转行写喜剧，而且你已经为《大卫·莱特曼秀》和《歪星撞地球》写过剧本？

But but like when you came when my memory of you was when you came to SNL, it was like you already had an aura because it was like he it was like he was worked as a in a brokerage firm, and then he left to write comedy, and you had already written for Letterman. And was it Third Rock From The Sun?

《歪星撞地球》。

Third Rock From The Sun.

你当时有两个正经节目。参加SNL试镜时还有《70年代秀》。

You had two genuine show. And seventies show when you auditioned for SNL.

我当时想推掉试镜，因为和《70年代秀》有合约在身。

I was trying to get out of the audition because I was under contract for 70 shows.

所以对我来说，我当时想——没错。

So to me, I was like That's right.

我想着反正也去不了。我们刚破天荒地连续获得两年续订，终于有了份稳定的工作，我也很热爱。想到之前在《莱特曼秀》表现不佳的经历，感觉像是另一个梦想又要破灭。所以只想牢牢抓住手头确定的东西。

I was like, I can't even do it anyway. I think we had just gotten picked up for two years in a row, which was unheard of. And so I was like, I finally had this job that's gonna stick for a while and loved the job. And this experience at Letterman where I didn't do great, and I was like this felt like, is this gonna be another dream shattered? So just, like, hold on to this thing that you know is you're you got for sure is a bird in hand.

对吧？后来他们说服我去试镜，结果去了之后...就被彻底碾压了

Right? Yeah. So so I just was like they talked me into coming to audition. So I went and and then I you got the crushed

你的试镜。威尔，你的试镜真是太搞笑了，真的吗？

your audition. Your audition was it was so funny, Will. Really?

是的。嗯，谢谢。

Yes. Well, thank you.

那简直——我认为那可以列为最精彩的试镜之一。哦，天哪。我是这么认为的。我是说，我记得

It was so I think it goes down as one of the best essays. Oh, man. I think so. I mean, I remember

顺便说，看看那个试镜。你会看到——你肯定会看到一个圆润版的福特。

By the way, look at that audition. You'll see a you'll see the doughy forte for sure.

有一点吧。

A little bit.

我那时候大概，是的，比现在重个30到40磅。

I probably was, yeah, 30 to 40 pounds heavier.

婴儿肥版的福特，就像，是啊。

Baby forte, like, yeah.

就像芝士汉堡养出来的福特。

Just like cheeseburger forte.

你在那次试镜里做了很多后来在节目里出现的角色。你演了蒂姆·卡尔霍恩。就是那个说话温和的候选人。

You did a bunch of characters in that audition that you ended up doing on the show. You did Tim Calhoun. You're the soft spoken candidate.

速读员那个角色后来也上了节目。

Speed the speed reader ended up on the show.

是的。那个速读选手就是拼写比赛的那个人？拼写比赛

Yes. The speed reader that was the spelling bee guy? Spelling bee

那家伙基本上就是换了套装扮的蒂姆·卡尔霍恩。

guy was kind of just Tim Calhoun in a different a different setup.

确实如此。

That's true.

但是

But

你模仿过谁吗？我

Did you do any impressions? I

模仿过。不过我的意思是，你知道我的模仿水平。

I did. I was not I mean, you know my impressions.

我们当然知道。

We do.

简直糟糕透顶。我能模仿科米蛙，大概就这个还行。你模仿过科米蛙吗？还有迈克尔·麦唐纳，就是那种谁都能模仿的角色。我还模仿过马丁·辛。

They're so bad. I could do Kermit the frog. That's, I think, it. Did you do Kermit? Michael McDonald, which is like I did the things everybody could do, and I did Martin Sheen.

哦。但我说的是那种

Oh. But I said, like, it was

像是《白宫风云》里的马丁·辛还是《现代启示录》里的

Like, West Wing Martin Sheen or an Apocalypse Now

马丁·辛？那声音听起来就像个老人，或者，我是说，我绝无不敬之意。但当时我才32岁，感觉就是不太对劲。

Martin Sheen? It was just like an old person voice kind of or, like, I mean, he would not to no disrespect. Not but just like for me at the time, I was 32.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后我就试着说，'嗨，我是马丁·辛'。我还补充道，'最近有点感冒，所以如果听起来不像我本人，那就是因为感冒的缘故'。

And, like, I I just kind of say, hi. I'm Martin Sheen. And what I what I said, I've had a kind of a cold lately. So Oh, yes. If this doesn't sound like me, it's because of the cold.

不过要是听起来像的话，那大概说明感冒好了之类的。哈，我觉得这招挺妙的。

But, you know, if it does sound like me, then I guess the cold is gone or something like that. Oh, thought that was so good.

后来你还真的在SNL节目里演过那个惊艳角色——银脸人

And then you did the amazing character that did end up on SNL once, which is the silver faced

哦，彩排时确实演过，但

Oh, it it we did it at dress rehearsal, but it

没在正式节目里播出？

didn't make the show?

没播成。不过我很庆幸没播，因为

It didn't make the show. But I was so thankful that it didn't because

能给大家讲讲这个角色吗？毕竟你在试镜时演的这个角色都成传奇了。

Can you just tell people about that, though, for people that don't know? Because it is it is legendary that you did it in the audition.

那是我在Groundlings剧团常演的角色，是个金人。呃抱歉

There it it was something I used to do at the groundlings, and I it was a gold man. And Excuse

我。不是银的。是金的。

me. Not silver. It was gold.

不。不。不。完全没关系。

No. No. No. It's totally fine.

非常抱歉。我真的很抱歉。

So sorry. I'm so sorry.

不。不。不。不。大家总说银人，我觉得...我觉得街上银人比金人多，因为银装更便宜。

No. No. No. No. Everyone always says silver man when they I think I think there are more people out on the streets that are silver than than gold, because it's just less expensive.

是啊。

Yeah.

对吧？正是这样。

Right? Exactly.

总之，就是那种...全身穿银装或...哦天哪抓到了。不。我太抱歉了。全身穿金装，静止不动，你往他箱子里投钱，他就会像机器人一样动起来，然后继续静止直到有人再投钱。

Anyway, so so I it's one of those guys who's, you know, dressed all in silver or silver or Oh my god. Got me. No. I'm so sorry. Dressed all in gold, frozen, and then if you put money in his thing, he, you know, moves around like a robot and then freezes until somebody puts more money in.

于是我演了个小品，牌子写着'投币让我动'。然后来了个劫匪...对。这是在Groundlings剧院，劫匪是吉姆·拉什演的。吉姆·拉什过来把钱拿走了，我没法动因为他没投钱。

So I did this sketch where it was you know, it had a thing that said dollars make me move. So so a robber comes up. Yeah. This was at at the groundlings, it was Jim Rash. And and Jim Rash comes up and and takes the money out, And I can't move because he's not putting money in.

我就卡在那儿，直到终于有人来投了一美元。然后我试图找那个劫匪，我说...

So I'm just stuck there until somebody else finally comes back and puts a dollar in. And then I, like, try to find this guy, and I'm like,

好吧。用非常啰嗦的方式。对。啰嗦的方式。

okay. In a very wordy way. Yeah. In a wordy way.

我悲伤地回到高台上，然后另一个叫杰里米·罗利的孩子跟着凯文·拉夫走过来。他问：爸爸，为什么那个金人看起来这么难过？他父亲说：也许你问他，他会告诉你。或者你投一美元进去，他可能会说。要是投两美元，他或许会用歌声告诉你。

Sadly go back up onto my perch and and then somebody else, Jeremy Raleigh, comes up. He's a kid with Kevin Ruff and says, daddy, why does the gold man look so sad? And he goes, you know, well, maybe if you ask him, he'll tell you. And or maybe if you put a dollar in, he'll tell you. Maybe if you put $2 in, he'll tell you in song.

于是我就唱了这首歌，这就是我当时...

And so then I do this song, and that's what I did for the

能告诉大家那首歌是什么吗？

And can you tell everyone what the song was?

就是把刚才说的内容...我试图在十五秒内即兴唱出来。虽然我觉得没成功，大概是这样...有这么个人...

To do what I what I just told you in I tried to do that in, like, fifteen seconds. Yeah. I don't think I did it, but it was like And this So so there's this guy.

嗦嗦嗦 嘟嘟嗦

So so so do do so

所以那首歌到底是什么？那可是首惊艳的歌啊。

So what was the song, though? It's it's an incredible song.

这个嘛...对。我刚铺垫完，差点又把前情重新讲了一遍。

So this is so this is the yeah. So I just set it up. I almost, like, retold the the setup again.

请记住这个设定。好，现在开始：仅仅因为我是黄金铸就的人

So keep in mind. Okay. So here we are. Just because I'm a man made of gold.

还有，在表演前要说明的是...那孩子投了两美元后，人群开始聚集，梅耶·鲁道夫也在其中。

So, also, just so you know before I do this. So so he said he puts in the $2. The kid puts in the $2, and then a bunch of people start gathering around, Meyer Rudolph being one of them.

虽为黄金身/非是摇钱树/我寻得的天职/是用精准机械舞给人欢愉/为此走上街头/勉强维持生计/辛勤积攒罐中钱/却遇败类毁我心/24K赤子心/遍体鳞伤仍笑对/黄金般的心

Just because I'm a man made of gold doesn't mean I'm made out of money. But the calling I found is to give people pleasure through incredibly precise robotic movement. That's why I come out to the streets to help me make ends meet. And I work real hard to fill up that jar, but then a bad apple ruins a barrel heart of gold. 24 carat, but through all the pain, I grin and I bear it, heart of gold.

但我正活在金色的梦里，因为无论如何

But I'm living a golden dream because any way

你切割它，我们都在同一团队。来吧，各位。然后大家开始跟着唱。

you slice it, we're all on the same team. Come on now, everybody. And everybody starts singing along.

黄金之心。24克拉。但历经所有痛苦，我笑着忍受

Heart of gold. 24 carat. But through all the pain, I grin and I bear it

迈克尔的秘密，它承载在

to Michael's secrets, and it bears in the

黄金之心里。但这不使我成为圣人，因为我有个小秘密。我为脸部疼痛而口交。来吧。跟我一起说

heart of gold. But it don't make me no saint because I got a little secret. I suck cock for my face pain. Come on. Say it

大家一起来。来吧。

with me, everybody. Come on.

再大声点。我为脸部疼痛而口交。我为脸部疼痛而口交。鸡巴，脸部疼痛。我为脸部疼痛而口交。

Harder. I suck cock for my face pain. I suck cock for my face pain. Cock, face pain. I suck cock for my face pain.

我为脸部疼痛而吸吮那根鸡巴。脸部疼痛。鸡巴，脸部疼痛。脸部疼痛。鸡巴，脸部疼痛。

I suck that cock for my face pain. Face pain. Cock, face pain. Face pain. Cock, face pain.

脸部疼痛，鸡巴，鸡巴，脸部疼痛，脸部疼痛，鸡巴，鸡巴，疼痛，鸡巴，鸡巴，鸡巴，脸，脸，鸡巴，鸡巴，脸部疼痛，鸡巴，鸡巴，疼痛，鸡巴，最终在天堂般的结合中相聚。然后

Face pain, cock, cock, face pain, face pain, cock, cock, pain, cock, cock, cock, face, face, cock, cock, face pain, cock, cock, pain, cock, together at last in a heavenly union. And

就那样渐渐消失。此时，所有人都离开了。然后我也就这样走了。

then just kinda go out. And at this point, everybody's left. And then I'm just gone.

终于在天堂般的结合中相聚了。

Together at last in a heavenly union.

是啊。所以我在地面剧场反复练习过，就像

Yeah. So I did that a bunch at the ground, like and

你为SNL试镜时也这么做过。

you did it for your SNL audition.

对，我为SNL试镜时就这么干的。记得我走出来时劳伦在场，我做完后完全不知道说什么，最后就说了句'抱歉那些公鸡笑话'，然后离开——结果我被录用了。

And I did it for my SNL audition. I remember walking out. Lauren was there and just kind of didn't do when I said and I didn't know what to say, so I just said, sorry about all the cocks. And then and then left, and I got the job. It

我至今记得现场反应，在那个以冷漠著称的演播厅里，观众笑得前仰后合，简直笑疯了。

was I can remember the reaction to that and how hard people were laughing on a notoriously, like, cold room. Like, that room is very like, people were dying laughing.

听你这么说真好，因为...

That's really nice to hear because, like, I mean

你不记得当时情形了？

You don't remember that?

不记得。表演时太专注了。特别是如果你在唱歌或制造大动静，周围安静前根本听不清反应。当时环境噪音不断，我可能还戴着音乐耳机。

No. Because you're so focused on it. And and especially if you're singing if you're doing anything loud, you can't really hear something until there's quiet. And this is just, like, constant noise, and I might have even had my music.

嗯。

Yeah.

对了，当时有位叫泰迪·赞贝蒂的音乐总监——谢谢泰迪——给了我伴奏带，让我能跟着音乐表演。要一起听吗？

Yes. Like, there's this guy, Teddy Zambetti. Thank you, Teddy. Put like, the who was the musical director at the Groundlings at the time I did that had gave me this tape of the music so I could do it to the the music. And Together?

是啊，我当时真的不知道。我...我甚至不确定，当你从那里走出来时，你完全不知道自己表现得如何。后来我确实找了个时间去劳伦的办公室找他。

Yeah. So I didn't know. I I didn't you know, you walk out of there. You just have no idea how you did. And then I actually at some point, I went up to Lauren's office.

因为我觉得，可能也由于我之前对去试镜这件事表现得特别抵触，嗯...我猜他当时的想法大概是...

Because I think also, like, because I had been such a little pain in the ass about even going out to audition Uh-huh. I think he was like, you know

“如果我给你这份工作，你会接受吗？”就是类似这样的意思。

Are you gonna take this job, you know, if if I give it to you kind of thing?

这真是最奇怪的情况，因为我走进去时，感觉他基本上就是在说...基本上等于告诉你‘你被录用了’，但我...

Well, it it was the weirdest thing because I went in there, and I was like I think he was basically saying, you know, basically saying you have the job. But I

他其实不喜欢直接告诉别人。众所周知，他从不亲自招聘或解雇任何人，整个过程都非常程序化。

had He doesn't like to actually tell anybody. He notoriously doesn't ever, like, hire or fire anybody. He's very automatic about it.

他只是轻描淡写地说了一句类似...

He's just like said something like

“你下周一开始上班”这样的话。

you start, you know, like that kind of thing.

当某个项目启动时，你就...对。

When one works, you're Yeah.

我记得和他打交道时，他会说‘到时候你在这里工作，其他人会在...’然后我就懵了：我这是被录用了吗？

I remember with him. He was like, and, you know, there'll be a time when you're here and people will be at and I was like, did I get hired?

对对，直接跳过了明确说‘让我确认一下，你被录用了，是的’这个环节。

Yeah. Yeah. Like, skipping the part where it's like, so let me be clear. You've got the job. Yes.

接下来，就像

And moving on to, like

第一年你会发现，你会想，我在这里的第一年？

In your first year, you're gonna find and you're like, my first year here?

对。就像，但对我来说，我填补了他略过的第一部分空白，就像，你非常犹豫，可能不会得到这份工作。但如果你足够幸运，如果我，你知道，不知怎么做了个糟糕的决定，在第一年雇用了你，你会，你知道，然后就是那些事。

Yeah. Like, let but but to me, I fill in the blanks of the first part that he glides over as, like, you're very much on the fence, probably not gonna get this job. But if you were lucky enough, if I, you know, somehow make a bad decision and hire you in your first year, you would, you know, and then that stuff.

对。对。你得到了工作，然后你得回去。而且你得拒绝一个，一个稳定的工作。

Right. Right. You got the job, and then you had to go back. And you had to turn down, like, a a a secure job.

哦。如果你还记得这个。

Well Oh. If you remember this.

你两头兼职了吗？

Did you do double dip?

没有。哦。我回去了，然后我说，我不会离开70秀。

No. Oh. I went back there, and I was like, I'm not gonna leave 70 show.

没错。威尔，你这招太厉害了，因为，我是说，它

That's right. Will, you that's such a badass move because, I mean, it

我只是个懦夫。我害怕了。

is I was just a puss. I was scared.

但你说我不能，你拒绝了。你我说，我不能做，因为我有其他义务。就像一个不回短信的女士，SNL就像，我从未如此被吸引过

But you said I can't you turned it down. You I said, I can't do it because I have other obligations. And just like a like a lady who doesn't answer her texts, SNL was like, I've never been more attracted

给你。

to you.

我是说，他们加倍下注，就像孤注一掷。每个人都

I mean, they double it was like double down. Everyone was

反应是，什么？然后发生了什么？我是说，大家的反应都是，哇，这操作太朋克了。殊不知我当时心想，你知道的，对，对。

like, what? Then what happened? Mean, what they everyone's like, oh, what a punk rock move. What and and like little do they know, I'm like, you know, yeah. Yeah.

是啊。我当时就想，谢天谢地我没去，因为我知道自己肯定会搞砸。这完全是个出于恐惧的决定。好在最后——在我写完《70年代秀》那年的年底，虽然剧集很成功，但我总忍不住想：唉，我当初真该接那个机会的。

Yeah. And I'm like, oh, thank god I didn't have to go because I know I would have failed. And I was just like so it was totally a decision based in fear. And thank god at the end of that situation, at the end of the the year where I wrote at 70 show and and it was great, but I thought about it all the time. Like, oh, I should have done it.

我确实应该接的。幸亏劳伦后来回来了。我记得斯派维打电话给我说...不对，是在某人婚礼上——就是那次。

I should have done it. And thank god Lauren came back. I remember Spivey calling me up and saying or no. We went to somebody's wedding. That was it.

我们在婚礼现场，斯派维和玛雅都在。我们聊了会儿，我说：是啊，我有点后悔没接那个机会，真的特别后悔。于是他们就...他们就重新找我了。

We were at a wedding, and and Spivey and Spivey and Maya were both there. And so they were we talked about it a little bit, and I said, yeah. I I kinda regret not doing it. I really regret not doing it. And so so they so they came back.

劳伦回来问我：愿意再来试镜吗？我就答应了。后来马克·巴西尔——《70年代秀》时我老板——也说：你必须去试试，要是...要是...

Lauren came back and said, would you want to come audition again? And I and so I said, yes. And then Mark Brazil, the guy who was my boss at 70 show, said, you gotta you gotta go do this. Do this, and you have a job here if if

真不错。

It's nice.

如果...对，如果没成，随时可以回来。

If you yeah. If you if it doesn't work out, just come right back here.

你进组后有过安全感吗？还是说每周都得拼命争取戏份？有没有彻底放松的时刻？

When you got on the show, did you ever feel secure, safe, or did you always feel like you had to hustle every week for your stuff? Like, did you ever have a moment where you relaxed?

我开始放松大概是在第七年左右吧。

I started relaxing, like, year seven, maybe.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是我第一年，所有人都战战兢兢的。对吧？我是说，你看起来像是那种一炮而红的类型。但当时真的很艰难，因为剧组里——我是说，有很多白人男性。所以你懂的，

It was my first year, everyone's terrified. Right? I mean, you were you were just like you seem like you were a pretty instant sensation. But it's it was tough with because, like, a bunch of I mean, it was a lot of, like, white dudes. And so you had like,

那是2001年，确实很多白人男性。

it's It was 2001 and a lot of white dudes.

阵容庞大得很，大概有17个人。对。所以你总想争取表现机会，明白吗？

It was a huge cast. It was, like, 17 people. Yeah. And so you're you're trying to get your stuff on. Right?

你拼命想引起注意。后来我不知怎么分到了乔治·布什的角色。就像我们之前聊过的，我根本不擅长模仿。这个安排简直像强扭的瓜。

And you're you're trying to get noticed. And then I got somehow the George Bush role. So I it's like, you know, we've talked earlier, like, I don't do impersonations. And, like, it was a match not made in heaven.

没错。你并不喜欢那样。

Yeah. You didn't like that.

听着，威尔·法瑞尔演乔治·布什——他演小布什简直出神入化。

I mean, listen. Will Ferrell was George Bush. He was George W. Bush. He was so good at it.

我之前说过，任何人接手这个角色，就像找人替代教堂女士的扮演者一样困难，或者说

It was I mean, I like, I've said this before, but I it it anybody replacing it's like trying to replace the church lady, trying to have somebody else do that or, like

嗯。

Mhmm.

你知道，他就这样把它变成了自己的标志性表演，以至于他们真该直接让这个角色退休。但当然，你不能在《周六夜现场》让现任总统的角色退休，总得有人来演。而我恰好成了那个人，所以那一年我演的布什确实有点让人失望。

You know, you just he he made it such his own thing that, like, they should have just retired it. But, of course, you can't retire the sitting president on SNL. You have to have somebody has to be doing it, and I just like, I had to be that guy. So it was like I was kind of a letdown for a year as Bush.

观察模仿表演如何在不同演员间传承是件有趣的事。有时效果很好，有时不尽如人意。但这就是工作，必须完成。不过确实...我懂的。

It is interesting to watch and pay attention to how impersonations get passed around. And sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't. And, yeah, you have a job to do, so you have to do it. But yeah. Is I know.

然后...然后我也能感同身受。就像我直到后来才开始放松，但当你开始放松时，我感觉你所有的...

And then and then as I I feel you the same way. Like, it didn't take me until later on where I started to feel relaxed. But when you started to feel relaxed, like, I feel like all of your

哦，不过说到放松的契机——抱歉打断你——是在第三次...

Oh. Oh. But well, the story that led to kind of relaxing is it was the after the third sorry to cut you off.

没关系，请继续。

No. Please.

我想那是在我第三季结束后，也可能是第二季。当时节目组很正确地意识到节目有些问题，决定整改。我们很多人被暂缓签约，你可能少数几个直接获得续约的。我们大概有十个人就...处于待定状态。

The but I I think this was after my third season there, or it might have been after the second season. There was this big period where they were like, right rightly saying something's a little off with this show. Let's figure it out. Put a bunch of us on hold. I think you might have been one of the only people who wasn't put on hold for for like, they just, like, picked you up, but, like, 10 of us just a bunch of us were had our Yeah.

给不了解的人解释下：按合同规定，他们必须在七月份通知你是否续约下一季。有时他们会申请延期三周，这次很多人遇到这种情况，总是很煎熬。三周期限到了，多数人已获续约，而那天是周五...

There's a time for people who don't know. There's a time in, like, July where they are contractually obligated to tell you if you're getting picked up for the next season. And then sometimes they will make a request to have three extra weeks, And they did that with a bunch of people, and that's always scary. And then I got to the end of that three weeks. A lot of people had gotten picked up, and they asked for this was Friday.

他们问：能周一再通知你吗？

They said, can we tell you Monday?

天啊。

Oh.

我能说什么？只能说好。结果周一又说要等到周三，之后每两天延期一次，又拖了三周。整整三周。

And I'm like, what am I gonna say? So I'm like, sure. Then on Monday, they said, we're not gonna be able to tell you till Wednesday. And then it that went on Well jumping to every two days for three more weeks. Three more weeks.

而我是最后一个被召回的人。其他人...我甚至不认为他们那年淘汰了任何人。他们只是——

And I was the very last person who got asked back. Everybody else I I don't even think they cut anybody that year. They just

他们只是折磨了所有人。

They just tortured everybody.

但后来劳伦终于打电话给我。这其实是件好事，因为他说：'听着，你现在还是编剧思维。当你写自己的东西时，你会全情投入，表现得很好。但当别人写的东西由你表演时，你就变得畏手畏脚。'而我心里想着：'天啊，你这蠢货当然会这样'

But then what happened was eventually Lauren called me up. And it actually was a good thing because he said he said, here's your deal. You still have a writer mindset. When you write your own things, you commit to them fully, and you're you're really good about that. But then when other people write things, you're you get timid, and you're and and and in, you know, in my head, I'm like, oh, you freaking don't you're so stupid.

当然这种情况不该发生。而他百分之百正确。我会回想起在《70年代秀》时，如果我写了什么，或者任何工作场合，别人说'不，不该这么说'——

Of course, that's not happening. And, of course, he was 100% right. Was like, I would remember back to at seventies show, if I'd write something and somebody's like or just any any job, you write something and you're like, nope. That's you know, it's like, nope. That's not how it's meant to be said.

所以当我表演别人写的短剧时，脑子里总想着：'他们肯定觉得我搞砸了，没演好'

And and it's like so I in my head, when I'm doing these sketches that other people have written, it's like, I could hear them going like, oh, he's blowing it. He's not doing it.

有意思。所以这种畏缩不是因为你不在乎或不努力，而是你害怕他们会觉得'这样不对'

Interesting. So the timidity came not from, like, you not caring. I'm not trying, but it was like you were afraid that they were thinking this isn't right.

我想完全按他们想要的方式表演，但不知道他们具体要什么。所以有点放不开。他说：'你只需要保持古怪，要掌控表演'

I wanted to do it exactly how they wanted it, but didn't know how they wanted it. And so I was kinda timid. And and he's like, you just gotta Be as weird. Take ownership

在你自己的作品中那种张扬和怪诞

over the big and weird in your stuff.

这件事本可能走向两个极端——我本可能彻底崩溃退缩。但不知为何，我突然想通：'现在都是额外收获了，我本可能被开除，但并没有'

And and it was like it really like, it could've gone either way. It could've been I could've just, like, receded into the shell and melted down. And for some reason, it became this thing of, like, oh, it's all gravy from here. I could've just been fired. I wasn't fired.

是的，必须承认劳伦完全正确，这某种程度上是个天才之举

Yeah. And so, like, you know, I gotta give it to Lauren. He was totally right and really somehow, you know, in it was kind of a master stroke of genius.

那真是非常非常好的反馈和好建议。

That is a really good good feedback and good note.

所以即便如此，可能又过了两年我才真正感觉到...

So that but it still probably took another two years before I was, like, feeling

你还记得我们读剧本时坐在一起吗？你和我当时是邻座。记得那次性骚扰讲座来人的时候吗？

Do you remember that we sat next to each other at the read through table? You you and I were next to each other. Do you remember when we had the guy come for the sexual harassment?

当然记得。

I certainly do.

记得我们当时在干什么吗？

Do you remember what we were doing during it?

我觉得我们好像在画丁丁图什么的。对...应该是这类事。我记忆力实在不太好。

I mean, I think it was, like, drawing pictures of dicks or something. I Yes. Assume it's something. I I mean, my memory again is bad.

双方自愿且适当地，就我们俩之间，互相画丁丁图传来传去。结果我不小心把那页纸递给了刚做完整个讲座的讲师，因为以为是签到表。这段你知道吗？

Consensually and and appropriately just with each other, I believe, drawing pictures of penises and giving them back and forth to each other. And then I accidentally handed that sheet of paper to the very nice man who had just done the entire seminar because I thought it was the sign in sheet. Do you know this part?

这段我倒忘了。

And I I forgot that part.

他当时问'这是什么？'，我说'哦拿错了先生，不是这张纸'。不过话说回来...我是说...你看...

And he was like, what's this? And I said, oh, that's the wrong sir, that's the wrong paper. But moving forward. I mean, look. That I mean, look.

现在回想起来太多这样的事了，我也经常觉得...是啊，当时只觉得逗笑最重要，就是...

There are so many things that I look back now and I go like Same. You think, oh, it's all about getting a laugh. It's all it's

确实如此。我觉得这就是随着年龄增长、身处喜剧界必须面对的现实——你得明白，所有事物都有保质期。比如第五十季时他们做的那个'我们搞砸了'的环节，展示了各种不恰当的选角。我们都曾扮演过本不该由我们饰演的角色。

it's Agree. And I feel that's what, like, is that's the part about getting older and being in and being in comedy is you have to like, figure out like, oh, it's like everything has an expiration date. I mean, there's like, even even on the fiftieth when they said like, here's all they had that segment of like, which is like, here's all the ways we got things wrong. And they showed way inappropriate casting for people, you know. We all played people that we should not have played.

天啊。

Oh my god.

我错误占用了资源。我当时不知道——其实心里是知道的。这种感受非常真实。

I misappropriated. I appropriated. I didn't know. I did know. Like, it's very real.

而你能做的最好的事就是弥补过错，吸取教训，做得更好。这就是全部了。好，那么四季...

And the best thing you can do is, like, make repair, learn from your mistakes, do better. Like, it's all you can do. Yeah. Okay. So four seasons.

恭喜。

Congratulations.

谢谢。

Thank you.

太棒了。

It's so great.

感谢...我看了

Thank I watched

整部剧。首播时我和蒂娜正在巡演。威尔，你在剧里表现得太出色了。

the whole thing. I was Tina and I were on tour when it premiered. Will, you are so good in it.

谢谢。哦，老兄。

Thank you. Oh, man.

你太棒了。

You're so good.

我是说谢谢。

Mean Thank you.

我知道你有多优秀。我超爱看你演戏。我觉得你是个非常出色的演员，我太喜欢了。

I know how good you are. I love watching you act. I just think you're such a great actor. I love it.

我跟你说，那个拍摄过程多有趣啊？虽然这话听起来像在回避赞美，但我是认真的。他们的剧本让你看起来像个演技派，就像他们的写作水平实在太高了。

I'll tell you, like, and and How fun was it to make? And This will sound like avoiding a compliment, but it I really mean it. Like, the way those guys write is makes you look like such a good actor. It's like their writing is so good.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像所有蒂娜的剧都是这样。比如《我为喜剧狂》，能在里面扮演保罗·拉斯纳梅这个角色，每次要说的台词都像天赐的礼物。换谁都能演好那个角色，真的。

It just like and and that's goes for all Tina shows. Like Yeah. You know, thirty Rock, getting to do the character I got to play in 30 Rock, the Paul Lasnimae, it just like it's the what the stuff that I got to say was just a gift every single time. It's like anybody could have done that. It really is

比如你和蒂娜。

like You and Tina.

太棒了。

Such good.

你和蒂娜的默契浑然天成，你们在一起特别甜，我们完全相信你们是情侣。我也超爱看你表演，因为你能驾驭那些深刻幽默、独特又古怪的角色。你演过很多怪咖角色，但这次我很喜欢看你演这类人物，因为他非常接近我印象中的你，威尔。

You and Tina had such a flow, and you're really sweet together, and we really bought you as a couple. And I just love seeing you also play because you you have the capacity to play such really, like, you know, deeply funny, original, and eccentric characters. You've played a lot of eccentric characters. And I loved seeing you play this kind of person because he was very he's very close to how I perceive you, Will. Like, he's Yeah.

我觉得有很多相似之处。

A lot of similarities, I think.

是的。所以在这之前我和蒂娜聊过，你知道，我们喜欢在背后议论别人——哦，是出于好意啦，还会问别人我该问你些什么。所以在你来之前我和蒂娜聊了聊，她有几个不错的问题要问你。其中一个，我想我们可能已经讨论过了，就是，如果你不是喜剧编剧，你其实有过很多不同的职业可能性。

Yeah. So I talked to Tina before this, you know, we like to talk about people behind their back Oh. In a good way, and and ask people what I should ask you. And so I talked to Tina before you came on, and she had a couple of good questions for you. One was, which I think we may have already covered, but, like, if you weren't a comedy writer, like, you you've had a lot of different, like, versions of you.

对。你能想象一个平行世界吗？如果你从未成为喜剧演员和编剧，你会做什么？

Yeah. Do you see a parallel world? If you if you never if you were never a comedy actor and writer, what would you have been?

我觉得我理想状态下会是个大学教授。哦，就像

I think I would have been ideally a college professor. Oh, Like

像是某种...我明白了

like some I see

历史相关的。我只是觉得...

kind of history. I just there's something

嗯，你这个年龄段的白人男性都对历史着迷。

Well, you're a white male of a certain age, so you're obsessed with history.

我是说...对。可能会是白人历史。没错。我就是...我特别喜欢在校园里散步。有没有...这么说让我听起来

I mean Yeah. Would have been white history. Yeah. I I just I love I love walking around campus. Do ever That makes me sound a

有点像个怪人，稍微有点。

little bit like a creep a little bit.

我超爱在校园里散步。

I love walking around campus.

我也超爱在校园里散步。

I love walking around campus.

看到那些年轻人。

Seeing those young people.

然后是《喜剧视角》。哦，我记下了她的问题，大致是：你成长过程中，看过哪些喜剧演员，谁对你影响最大？

And then Comedy View. Oh, I wrote down her question, which was like, when you were growing up, who did you who were your comedy who did you see and you thought, oh, like, who are your influences, basically?

我会说，第一是史蒂夫·马丁。彼得·塞勒斯也是重要影响。还有每期《周六夜现场》，真的每期都看。

I would say, number one was Steve Martin. Peter Sellers was another big one. Every SNL just every SNL. Just SNL.

嗯。

Yeah.

大卫·莱特曼。这四位是主要的。当然还有巨蟒剧团、SCTV电视台等等，但史蒂夫·马丁绝对是我的头号偶像。

David Letterman. Those are the four. But, I mean, you know, Monty Python, SCTV, so so much stuff, but but, like, Steve Martin, definitely my number one.

没错。对我们这代人来说——我们年龄相仿——史蒂夫·马丁的影响太大了。你看过那部纪录片吗？

Yes. Steve Martin, for our generation, because we're about the same age, it was, like, so big. Did you watch that documentary? Somehow

我还没看

I haven't

天啊，太精彩了。摩根制作的这部纪录片真的很棒，特别动人。就像《周六夜现场》五十周年特辑让我们回顾了整个青春——这节目从我们三岁就开始播了。

Oh my. It's so good. Morgan It's so good. It's moving because it feels like in the same way that the SNL fiftieth felt like our entire life. You know, it started when we were three, that show.

史蒂夫是我们小时候的超级巨星，他的艺术生涯贯穿了我们整个成长过程。

Steve was, like, the big star when we were little kids. And, like, he just he just spans our life too.

是啊。那些单口喜剧专辑，还有...《大笨蛋》那部电影对我来说意味着一切。到现在还能偶然发现些他当年我没看过的作品。

Yeah. Mean, All those stand up albums and and yeah. But the jerk. I mean, the jerk. It was for me, it was it all but then and there are still things that I stumble onto that I, you know, had never seen.

就像，不知怎么的，我居然从没看过那个叫什么来着？伟大的弗莱迪尼。

Like, somehow, I had never seen the what was it? The great Fliedini.

哦，是的。

Oh, yes.

你看过吗？不过你知道，我肯定我漏掉了无数东西。《欢乐酒店》的超级粉丝，那部剧就是，你知道的，就是爱

Have you seen but there are you know, I'm I'm sure I'm leaving out a million things. You know? Was a huge fan of Cheers and that's, you know, that's Love

《欢乐酒店》。这部剧以波士顿为背景，在我们成长过程中可是件大事。

Cheers. Cheers was in Boston, which was such a big deal growing up.

对啊对啊。

Like Yeah. Yeah.

尽管剧里没一个人有纯正的波士顿口音，包括克里夫。他那口音根本不是真的。但这剧对我们来说意义重大，感觉像是专门为我们拍的。

Even though not one person had an authentic Boston accent in that show, but including Cliff. He he it was not that was not an authentic accent. But but that was such a big deal. Like, Cheers felt like, oh, this was like a show for us or something. Yeah.

但我超爱《欢乐酒店》。

But I loved Cheers.

没错，太对了。

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

太棒了，我是说，

So good. I mean,

至今还是

The still

《欢乐酒吧》的领航员，也是史上最优秀的飞行员之一。

pilot of Cheers and one of the best pilots ever.

是啊。现在我偶尔会回顾，重新看那些剧集，依然觉得惊艳。那些叙事手法太出色了，编剧们简直是顶尖中的顶尖。

Yeah. And I I look back now every once in a while, I'll go back and watch them, and and it's just it's still so amazing. Like, the the storytelling is so good that those that those writers are just cream of the crop.

那你现在会看些什么、听些什么、读些什么？你喜欢什么？怎么放松自己？怎么让自己开心或大笑？你会选择什么方式？

And what are you watching today looking at, listening to, reading? What do you like, where how do you check out? How do you zone out? Like, how do you get yourself happy or laugh? Like, what do you where do you go?

你看什么节目？

What do you watch?

我经常玩数独。不知怎么的，以前我有好多...

I I I play a lot of sudoku. For some reason, it used I have a bunch of things

像是清单之类的。玩数独？

like checklists. Played sudoku?

我以前——我是说现在也是——特别喜欢填字游戏。你知道的，我会做《纽约时报》的填字游戏，但通常我会等到周六才做周六和周日的部分。

I used to be I'm I'm I mean, I'm still a big crossword. You know, I do the New York Times crossword puzzle, but, usually, I'll just wait till Saturday to do Saturday and Sunday.

周六的很难。

Saturday's hard.

我知道。但就是想小小炫耀一下。不过我真的很喜欢。

I know. But just wanna jump to that as a humble brag. But I love it.

那可是需要学习的技能。

That's it's a learned skill.