多元恋爱

我在科技行业，应该知道

I'm in tech, should know

什么是镜像网站，是的。

what a mirror website Yeah.

好吧，我们来核实一下这个事。

Alright, we'll fact check this shit.

是的。

Yeah.

不管怎样，这真让人沮丧。

Anyway, that that sucks.

我的意思是

I mean

使用VPN，你可以在任何国家绕过他们的法律。

a VPN, you can use that in any country to skirt any of their laws.

比如我在泰国的时候，用美国的VPN来看Netflix。

Like when I was in Thailand, put a VPN in The US so I could watch Netflix.

那这么做的问题在哪里？

So what's the problem in doing it?

为什么不是每个人都在用？

Why doesn't everyone use it?

你会

You get

被黑吗？

hacked?

我的意思是，你只是没遵守法律而已。

I mean, you're just not following the laws.

如果你被切断了，那就是违法的。

If you get cut off It's just illegal.

是的。

Yeah.

不知道。

Don't know.

互联网太让人困惑了。

The internet's so confusing.

要制定法律真的很难，因为如果你在一个国家，那个国家有一项法律，而你的网站却设在另一个国家，但你服务的对象却在第一个国家，那你到底该遵守哪个国家的法律呢？

It's really hard to have a law because if you're in one country and you have one law in that country and your website is based in a different country, but you're serving people in that country, do you have to follow their laws or do This you follow your

这太让人不知所措了。

is so overwhelming.

是的。

Yeah.

这太多了。

That's a lot.

不错。

Cool.

而且

And

还有一件事，这并不是，我想这算是

one more thing this wasn't this was I guess kind it was

是一篇文章，但我更想聊它，是因为这篇文章讨论的内容——我想这适用于我聊过的所有文章。

an article, but I more wanted to talk about it because of what the article was talking about which I guess is true of all my articles that I've talked about.

但《Pen15》！

But Pen 15!

有一篇文章谈到，《Pen15》是第一部真实呈现少女性欲和自慰行为的作品。

There was this article that was just talking about how, Pen 15 is really the first honest portrayal of teen girl sexuality, and masturbation.

你知道，在电视剧和电影里，总能看到男孩自慰的情节。

You know you always see in TV shows and movies boys masturbating.

确实如此。

It totally is.

用袜子什么的，但你从来看不到女性或女孩有这样的场景。

The sock and all that stuff but you never see that with women, with girls.

《Pen15》是Hulu上一部很棒的剧集，讲述的是初中生活，非常真实，特别有共鸣。

And PEN15 is this amazing show on Hulu that talks about being in middle school and it's so real, it's so relatable.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得每个女性和每个女孩都应该看看这部剧。

I think every woman needs to see it and every girl.

我会给我13岁的女儿、12岁的女儿都看。

It's like I would I would show it to my 13 year old daughter, my 12 year old daughter.

我觉得。

I feel

就像，是的，但你可能要等到度过那个阶段后，才能更深刻地体会到。

like yeah, but you might not appreciate it as much until you're out of that phase in your life.

但我真希望当时知道，其他人都在经历和我一样的事，因为大家都假装自己不看色情内容，而我觉得。

But I wish that I knew that everyone else was going through the same shit as me because everyone was pretending like they didn't watch porn and I felt

这像是一个可怕的秘密，

like it was this horrible secret that

他们明明也看，但男孩们可能觉得我看色情内容很酷，而女孩们却会因此评判我。

they had that like maybe the boys would think it's cool that I watch porn but then the girls would judge me.

我感受到的更多是那种被男孩评判的感觉。

That's how I felt more than like the boys judging me.

是的。

Yeah.

我的朋友，中学时我最好的朋友之一，还有

I my friends one of my best friends in middle school and

我希望她现在正在听，但她和我，还有我们其他所有朋友，我们都对性着迷，尤其是她和我，特别着迷。

I hope she's listening right now, but she and I and all of our other friends, we we were like obsessed with sex, but especially she and I we were really obsessed.

我们经常谈论这个，但你知道，我们并不懂那意味着什么，但我们就是想要失去童贞。

We talked about it all the time, but you know like and we didn't know what it was, but we were like I want to lose my virginity.

十二三岁的时候，你知道，我们其实并不明白

Like thirteen, twelve, 13, you know, like we didn't

那意味着什么。

know what it meant.

但确实，我们俩都会谈论自慰的事，我想有一次。

But yeah and we would both talk about like how we masturbated like I think one time.

对不起

I'm sorry

我觉得别人会知道我在说谁

I feel like people are gonna know who I'm

但我必须讲这个故事。

talking about, but I have to tell this story.

她甚至用手机自慰，因为手机会震动。

She like masturbated with her cell phone because it vibrates.

但为了公平起见，

But I just to even out the playing field,

我曾经用黄瓜自慰过一次。

I I did masturbate with a cucumber once.

哦，我为此感到很内疚，就把

Oh, So I felt really bad about it, I threw

它扔了，因为觉得这是对食物的浪费。

it out because it felt like a waste of produce.

确实是。

It it was.

是的。

Yeah.

我想你可以先洗了再削皮。

I guess you could have washed and then peeled the skin.

我没法对我家人这么做。

I couldn't do that to my family.

这就像是

It's like

太恶心了。

pretty gross.

这就是我们所有的新闻了。

That's all the news that we have.

哦，我们是不是该来个鼓掌？

Oh, we're like a A drum roll?

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

但我

But I

我觉得这并不值得敲鼓庆祝。

feel like this isn't a drum roll worthy moment.

哦，为什么？

Oh, why?

为什么不算呢？

Why is it not?

我们的研究？

Our study?

是的，我们的研究。

Yeah, our study.

我觉得这是值得鼓掌的时刻。

I think it's a drum worthy moment.

我们本周的主题是什么？

What is our topic of the week?

哦，

Oh,

开放关系。

polyamory.

是的。

Yes.

首先，

First

在深入讨论之前，开放关系和多配偶制有什么区别？

off, before we get into it, what is the difference between polyamory and

多妻制？

polygamy?

一夫多妻是一种婚姻形式。

Polygamy is marriage.

是的。

Yeah.

这意味着你和多个人结婚。

So that means you're married to a bunch of people.

而且通常是由男人

And isn't it the man is

结婚就是和很多人结婚，但通常确实如此。

Is married it being to a bunch bunch of of But usually it is.

那是不是指一妻多夫？

Is it about polyandry?

我不知道一妻多夫是什么。

Don't know what polyandry is.

那就是当女人是

That's like when the woman is

哦，反过来，是的。

Oh, the reverse, yeah.

我觉得。

I think.

我觉得一夫多妻适用于双方。

I think polygamy is for both.

是的，或者用通俗的说法。

Yeah, or like in common vernacular.

是的。

Yeah.

当你结婚时，而多边恋爱是指你和很多人约会。

When you marry and then polyamory is when you just like date a bunch of people.

是的，当你和很多人保持关系时。

Yeah, when you're in relationships with a bunch of people.

多边恋爱和知情非一夫一妻制之间是有区别的。

And there's a difference between polyamory and consensual non monogamy.

非单偶制同意关系是一个总称，涵盖多元爱恋，也包括开放关系和 swingers。

Consensual non monogamy is like an umbrella term that encompasses polyamory but also encompasses open relationships and swingers.

而多元爱恋只是指一个人同时与多个伴侣建立关系，且所有人都接受这种安排。

Whereas polyamory is just one person who has relationships with other people with more than one person at the same time and everyone's cool

对此都感到自在。

with it.

是的，或者你可以组成三人组、四人组，大家彼此约会。

Yeah, or they can, you can have like a throuple or quadruple or like where everyone's dating each other.

每个人都可以有各种不同的组合，比如你和我在约会，而我还在和另一个女孩约会，但你并不和那个女孩约会；或者我们所有人都彼此约会，而我还有一个不在你们任何一个人关系圈里的男朋友。

Everybody could, yeah, you can have so many different shapes like you and I could be dating and I could be dating another girl but you're not dating that girl or we are all or then we're all dating each other and then I have a boyfriend on the side who's not dating any of you.

是的。

Yeah.

有无数种可能的组合方式。

There's all like infinite combinations of Yeah.

它

How it

疯狂疯狂。

cray cray.

是的，这期我们做点不一样的。

Yeah and this episode we're doing something a little different.

通常我们各自读一篇研究然后讨论，但这次我们只讨论一篇研究，以便为采访一位真实的多边恋人士腾出时间。

Usually we each read a study and talk about it, but this time we're just gonna talk about one study to save time for an interview with a real life polyamorous person.

天啊，我太兴奋了。

Oh my god, I'm so excited.

是的，我真的很期待那个。

Yeah, I'm really excited for that.

也许我们应该问问大家有没有什么问题。

Maybe we should ask if people have any questions.

是的，在我们的Instagram上。

Yeah, on our Instagram.

好的。

Okay.

我们就这样做吧。

Let's do that.

我们会这么做的。

We're gonna do that.

希望你们提交了一些不错的问题。

Hopefully you guys sent in some good questions.

是的，我们有二十四小时。

Yeah, we have twenty four hours.

好吧，那跟我们说说这个研究吧

All right, so tell us about this study that

你找到的。

you found.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，嗯，是你找到的。

So, well you found it.

哦，我找到了。

Oh, I found it.

是的。

Yeah.

但米里亚姆，你读一下。

But Miriam, read it.

对。

Yeah.

这项研究是对美国多边恋和单配偶制关系人群的 demographics 比较。

So the study was a demographic comparison of American individuals in polyamorous and monogamous relationships.

哦，我

Oh, I'm

很高兴我选了这个。

glad I picked it.

是的，

Yeah,

我提到过，多边恋是一种在所有相关方知情同意的前提下，建立多个情感亲密关系的做法，这些关系可能是性关系，也可能不是。它在20世纪90年代被正式认定为一种关系形式。

so I mentioned, polyamory is the practice of having multiple emotionally close relationships that may or may not be sexual in nature with the consent of everyone involved, And it was formally recognized as a form of relationship in the 1990s.

这听起来是不是有点疯狂？

So that's kind of crazy, right?

如果你处于多边恋关系中，但这种关系却不被任何认定关系的机构所承认。

If you're in a polyamorous relationship but it's not even recognized by whoever recognizes relationships.

可能是这样。

Might be.

正如我所说，知情非一夫一妻制包括多边恋以及许多其他形式，已经有很多关于知情非一夫一妻制的研究，但这项研究特别聚焦于多边恋与一夫一妻制的对比。

So as mentioned, consensual non monogamy encompasses polyamory and a lot of stuff there have been a lot of studies on consensual non monogamy, but this study specifically focused on polyamory versus monogamy.

他们采用了两个在线样本，一个专门针对多边恋者，另一个专门针对一夫一妻者。

So they had two online samples, one was aimed specifically at polyamorous people and one was aimed specifically at monogamous people.

他们收集了2428名多边恋参与者和539名一夫一妻参与者。

And they got 2,428 poly participants and five thirty nine monogamous participants.

还有一系列令人惊讶的人口统计结果。

And there was a bunch of crazy demographic results.

可能有点长。

It might be kind of long.

我们之后可以剪掉无聊的部分。

We can cut out the boring parts later.

好的。

All right.

那我们开始吧

Well, let's

听听看。

hear it.

听听看。

Let's hear it.

好的。

Okay.

所以平均年龄没有显著差异。

So there was no significant difference in mean age.

所以年龄是一样的。

So age was the same.

在性别认同方面，存在显著差异。

In terms of gender identity, there was a significant difference.

因此，处于一夫一妻关系中的参与者更多地认同为女性。

So more participants in monogamous relationships identified as female.

男性方面没有差异，但多伴侣关系的参与者更多地将性别标识为跨性别或其他。

There was no difference in males, but more poly participants indicated gender as trans or other.

在‘其他’类别中，最常见的回答是性别酷儿。

And in other, they would say the most common response was genderqueer.

很有趣。

Interesting.

是的。

Yeah.

那是我翻页的声音。

That was me turning the page.

也许他们觉得，我们本来就是酷儿，那就随它吧，我们只想做自己想做的事，而异性恋者或顺性别者可能更不太愿意打破规范。

Maybe they're like, we're already queer so fuck it we're just gonna do what we want and maybe heterosexual people or cisgender people are more like less about breaking norms.

你明白我的意思吗？

Do you know what I mean?

是的，这在本研究中是一个常见主题，即多边关系中的人更倾向于选择‘其他’。

Yeah, that actually is a common theme in this study where people in poly relationships are more likely to select other.

他们表示，这是因为他们拒绝并偏离了传统的群体标签。

And they were saying it's because they reject, and deviate from traditional group labels.

哦，真酷。

Oh, cool.

同样地，在性取向方面，单偶关系中异性恋者更多。

So again, with sexual orientation, there were more heterosexual people in monogamous relationships.

有趣的是，单偶和多边关系中的同性恋或女同性恋者人数没有差异。

Interestingly there was no difference in gay or lesbian relationships in monogamous or polyamorous couplings.

这让我觉得挺有意思，因为我一直觉得，尤其是男同性恋者，我认识的很多男同性恋者都更接受开放式关系，但我想开放式关系和多边关系并不是一回事。

Just because that was interesting to me because, I always think of especially gay men, a lot of gay men I know are more cool with open relationships, but I guess an open relationship isn't the same thing as a poly relationship.

但最大的差异是，处于多元关系中的人更可能是双性恋或泛性恋，这对我来说也很合理。

So, but the biggest difference was that people in poly relationships were more likely to be bi or pansexual, which also makes sense to me.

如果你被多种性别吸引，那么只和其中一种性别的人约会可能不会让你感到满足。

If you're attracted to multiple genders, you probably won't feel as fulfilled if you're only dating one of them.

就教育而言，有趣的是，处于一夫一妻关系中的人比处于多元关系中的人更有可能拥有学士学位。

In terms of education, interestingly, people in monogamous were more likely to have a bachelor's degree than people in poly relationships.

就宗教而言，基督徒更倾向于保持一夫一妻制。

In terms of religion, Christians were more likely to be monogamous.

总体而言，这是宗教与关系类型之间最强的关联。

And in general, that was the strongest association between religion and relationship type.

宗教与关系类型之间的关联，在所有人口统计因素中是最强的，因为基督教如此强调某种特定的生活方式。

Or the association between religion and relationship type was the strongest among all the demographic factors because Christianity so preaches this, certain way of living.

是的。

Mhmm.

多元关系者更倾向于选择‘其他’作为宗教信仰，不太可能是不可知论者，但更有可能

Poly people were more likely to choose other for religion and less likely to be agnostic, but more likely

成为无神论者。

to be atheists.

哦，他们根本一点都不相信上帝。

Oh, they don't even a little bit believe in God.

也许吧。

Maybe.

但他们也选择了其他宗教，所以有时是那些不属于主流宗教的信仰。

Or but they also did choose others, so sometimes it was a religion that just isn't part of the standard course.

好的。

Okay.

在多元关系中没有穆斯林，不过这项研究中穆斯林的样本本身也很少。

There were no Muslims in Pali relationships, though there were just not a lot of Muslims represented in the study.

总的来说，民主党人很多，但单偶关系中的民主党人比多元关系中的更多。

So that might've just been a sample As size far as politics go, there were lots of Democrats in general, but monogamous relationships had more Democrats than poly relationships.

单偶关系中的共和党人更多。

There were more Republicans in monogamous relationships.

是的。

Yeah.

但多边恋者更倾向于支持小政党，或者选择其他政党，比如绿党在多边恋者中非常受欢迎。

But polyamorous people were more likely to go for smaller parties or select other, like the Green Party was really popular among poly people.

有些人说他们是无政府主义者，我觉得这很酷。

Some people said they were anarchists, which I thought was cool.

就收入而言，多边恋者大多处于较低的收入阶层。

And as far as income goes, poly people have, are in a lower income bracket.

就职业而言，多边恋者更可能选择‘其他’职业，或者从事信息技术工作，这很奇怪。

Occupation wise, poly people are more likely to say other or be an infotech weirdly enough.

我想科技行业更具有进步性。

I guess tech is more, a more progressive field.

而一夫一妻制关系的人更可能从事教育行业。

And then people in nagamous relationships were more likely to be in education.

就婚姻而言，两组人在婚姻状况上差异不大，但多边恋者更可能选择民事结合，这很合理，因为他们想以某种方式表达承诺，但可能又不愿遵循传统规范，而希望尝试不同的方式。

As far as marriage goes, both groups didn't differ much in marriage, but poly people were more likely to be in a civil union, which makes sense because they want to signify their commitment in a way, but maybe don't want to, they reject standard norms and want to try something different.

多边关系者更可能离过婚，这也很合理，因为他们有更多段关系。

Poly people were more likely to be divorced, which also makes sense because they just have more relationships.

当你拥有更多关系时，它们更可能结束。

And when you have more relationships, they're more likely to end.

最后是孩子方面，两者没有显著差异。

And finally children, there was no significant difference.

但正如我所说，多边关系者总体上更倾向于选择‘其他’选项。

But as I said, poly people in general are just more likely to select other.

这很有趣，在种族问题上，很多多边关系者选择了‘其他’，并注明种族是社会建构。

Like this was funny, for race, a lot of poly people said other and then wrote race as a social construct.

不止一个人这么写过。

Like more than one person said that.

哦，而且多边关系者更可能是多元族裔的。

Oh, and poly people are more likely to be multi ethnic.

非常酷。

Very cool.

是的，多边关系者

Yeah, poly people

会拒绝传统规范。

will be rejecting norms.

对，他们根本不在乎。

Yeah, they don't give a fuck.

是的。

Yeah.

他们非常自我实现。

They're so self actualized.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

我非常期待和艾玛交谈。

I'm really excited to talk to Emma.

是的。

Yeah.

我很高兴我们了解了所有这些信息。

I'm glad we know all this all this information.

是的。

Yeah.

我不会从Word里删掉任何内容。

I'm not cutting any of it from Word.

是的。

Yeah.

她来了！

And here she is!

嗨，我是一个真实的多边恋者。

Hi I'm a real life polyamorous person.

是的，你们所有人都把问题提交给了Horgasmik和SMH Pod，我们现在就来聊聊

Yeah, so you all submitted your questions to Horgasmik and to SMH Pod and we're just gonna have a little conversation about

是什么感觉

what it's like

因为我和阿里埃拉都是专一的，

to be poly because we're both monogamous, Ariella and I,

所以我们

so we

没有这方面的经验。

don't have that knowledge.

哦，重要的是，艾玛为我们制作了开场曲，简直太棒了，所以你们马上又要听到她的声音了。

Oh and important to note, Emma made our intro song which is fucking awesome so now you're gonna hear her voice again.

而且艾玛并不代表所有非单偶者，她只是代表非常……嗯，记住这一点，这并不适用于所有关系。

And Emma doesn't speak for everyone who is poly she just speaks for very Yeah so keep that in mind this doesn't apply to all relationships.

所以艾玛，你能告诉我们你目前的感情状况吗？

So Emma can you tell us what your current relationship is right now?

是的，我目前和几个人保持着恋爱关系，其中一些是伴侣，还有一些我见得比较少。

Yeah so I'm currently in a couple of relationships seeing a couple of people who are like partners and some people who I see a little bit less regularly.

不太频繁是指多久？

What's less regularly?

你每个月大概见几次？

How many times per month would you say?

这要看情况。

It depends.

我最常见面的人，大概每周一次，或者每两周一次，因为我太忙了——我能说‘忙成狗’吗？

So the people that I see the most often I probably see like once a week, once every two weeks because I'm a busy can I say bitch?

是的。

Yeah.

我是个忙成狗的人。

I'm a busy bitch.

你想说什么都可以，太棒了。

You could say whatever you're Incredible.

所以这真的因人而异，有些伴侣我们并不互相称对方为伴侣，我只是和某些人关系比较随意一些。

Yeah so it just really depends on the person and some of my partners we don't call each other partners I just see certain people a little bit more casually than others.

有些人我爱着，和他们有很认真的关系，所以这真的因人而异。

Some people I'm in love with and have very serious stuff with so it just kind of depends.

等等，你爱着的那些人，你是说你每周见他们一两次，或者更频繁吗？

Wait so the people who you are in love with are you saying that you see them once or twice every week or more frequently?

大概每周一次。

Probably once a week.

每周一次？

Once a week?

好的，那你和那些不太亲近的人，大概每月见几次。

Okay and then the ones who you're not super close with you see like a couple times a month.

是的，而且这也有点复杂，因为我现在最认真交往的那些人都不住在城里。

Yeah and it's also a little complicated because the people that I'm seeing right now like the most seriously none of them live in the city.

哦，所以

Oh so

这就让事情变得更加复杂了。

that makes it especially complicated.

我的一个伴侣住在新罕布什尔州，另外两个比较认真的伴侣住在威斯特彻斯特，还有一些人散居在城市各处。

So one of my partners lives in New Hampshire and the other two that are sort of more serious live in Westchester and there's people kind of scattered about the city.

而且当

And when

你是什么时候开始这些不同关系的？

did you start all of these different relationships?

我已经和我的男友交往三年了，我们从大学时期刚开始约会时就打算保持开放关系。

So I've been dating my boyfriend for now three years and we started out being open sort of like when our relationship began in college.

实际上在今年九月，我们突然想到：为什么不试试开放关系呢？

And then in September actually we were like wait why don't we try being poly?

整个过程是这样的：我在大学期间经历过多次开放与封闭交替的关系，每次关系封闭时我都非常不开心，于是我总想试着开放每一段关系，努力和伴侣沟通，确认对方是否愿意接受。后来我们就这样慢慢摸索着走过来。

And sort of the way that it happened was like I'd been in open relationships that had been open and closed and a lot of different stuff throughout college and I was always super unhappy when they were closed and I was trying to open up every relationship I was in and like trying to like negotiate with the person I was with and make sure they were already down for it and then kind of figured out as we went along.

但后来我意识到，我过生日时，男友送了我一本《合乎道德的荡妇》，他说：‘你应该读读这本书，我觉得会很有趣。’于是我回答：‘亲爱的，我觉得我们已经在这样做了。’

But then I sort of realized for my birthday my boyfriend bought me The Ethical Slut and he was like you should read this I think this would be interesting and then I was like babe I think we're already doing this.

是的。

Yeah.

我当时就说：哦，所以我们是多边恋爱了，他则说

I was like oh so we're poly and he was

是的。

like yeah.

这是一次很好的对话，因为他当时在学校认真地和一个人交往，而我才刚开始和一个我非常感兴趣的人接触，之前我只和人 casually 来往，于是我心想：天啊，我现在该怎么办？

So it's a good conversation because he'd been seeing someone sort of seriously at school and I was just starting to see someone I was really into and I was like before I'd just been casual with people I was like oh fuck what do I do now?

我不知道。

I don't know.

这到底意味着什么？

What does this mean?

因为以前我们是合乎道德的非专一关系，开放的，所以我可以和别人交往，但我尽量不和任何人发展成认真的关系。

Because before it was like we were ethically non monogamous and open so like I could see people but I tried not to get it like to make it serious with anyone.

而当这种情况转变后，我向无数可能性敞开了自己。

And then when that shifted I opened myself up to a world of opportunities.

对我来说，我只爱过一个人，对我来说，那是一种全身心投入的体验。

So that's something for me I've only ever loved one person, and for me I felt like it was an all consuming type of experience.

那么，当你对某人产生迷恋时，却还能对另一个人保持爱意，这感觉如何？

So how do you feel infatuation towards someone but then

但依然对另一个人怀有爱意吗？

still feel love towards another person?

我不知道，我一直觉得我能够同时爱多个人，而且我对每个不同的人所感受到的爱意也完全不同。

I don't know, I feel like I've just kind of always known that I could love more than one person at once and also that the feelings that I have of love are completely different with each person that I feel those feelings towards.

有时候是迷恋，有时候要同时处理这么多感情确实有点困难。

And sometimes it is infatuation and sometimes it's a little bit difficult to sort of juggle all of them.

我感觉对很多人同时都有很深的爱，这有时会让人有点不知所措。

I'm like I feel a lot of love for a lot of people at once and it can be a little overwhelming.

这肯定需要比普通的一夫一妻关系更多的努力。

It definitely takes I think maybe more work than the average monogamous relationship would.

平衡这种状态很不容易，当你爱很多人时，真的会很令人压力山大。而我逐渐明白，我对每个人的爱都截然不同，完全基于他们是谁，而不是我能从他们身上得到什么，这真的让我豁然开朗。

Balancing that, that when you love a lot of people it can be really overwhelming and I think like coming to terms with the fact that my love for each person is really different and is just based on who they are as a person and not what I want from them has been really like eye opening.

那么，你现在交往的这些人，他们是不是都挺相似的？

And so is everyone that you're or all the people that you're in relationships right now are they kind of similar?

你有不同的类型吗？

You have different types?

完全不同的类型。

Totally different types.

有意思，所以这就像你刚才说的，对每个人都会产生不同类型的爱。

Interesting and so that kind of creates a different sort of love for each person like you were just saying.

我觉得我认识的每个人都有一个共同点，那就是他们都特别开放，也许不是天生擅长沟通，但都在努力尝试。我本人也不是天生的沟通高手，但我也在拼命努力。我想，这正是我认识的这些人之间的联系——善良、开放，以及希望好好沟通的愿望。

I feel like the one common thread is that everyone that I'm seeing is really open and either is not maybe not a naturally good communicator but tries really hard and I don't feel like I'm the best communicator naturally either but I'm trying really hard and I think that's sort of what links everyone that I'm seeing like kindness, openness, and a desire to communicate well.

在多边关系中，这是最重要的事情，因为如果没有沟通，这事儿怎么搞下去？

It's like the most important thing in being in a polyamorous relationship because if there's no communication like how the fuck is that gonna work?

是的，没错，否则有人肯定会受到伤害，而且这种伤害是完全可以理解的。

Yeah exactly or like someone's gonna be really hurt and understandably hurt.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这是对的

I feel like that's true

在单偶关系中也是如此。

of monogamous relationships too.

你必须在所有关系中都进行沟通。

You you gotta communicate in all of your relationships.

但我

But I

我觉得这可能更重要，或者更紧迫？

can see it being more important or more dire maybe?

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得那很紧迫。

Think that was dire.

等等，你是和每个人分别建立关系吗？还是你交往的任何人之间，也彼此有关系？

Wait and also are you in a relationship with everyone separately or is is anyone that you are in a relationship with also in a relationship with another partner?

所以每个人都是独立的。

So everyone is separate.

这并不像我打算永远这样下去，因为我才从九月开始这样，所以我觉得自己在这方面还是新手。

Which is not like definitely like I don't think that's probably how I want to do it forever because I've just started doing this like in September so I think I'm still sort of new at it.

所以目前所有的关系都是彼此独立、分开的，但我完全可以想象未来会发生变化，或者我未来会希望那样。

So I think right now all of the relationships are sort of like separate from one another and individual but I could definitely like see that changing in the future or like see me wanting that in the future.

是和你现在的伴侣，还是在新的关系中？

With your current partners or in new relationships?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我觉得一旦进入一段关系，要改变它的结构会有点困难，但这正是多元恋爱的本质，所以也许吧，我不知道。

I feel like once you're sort of in a relationship it can be a little bit difficult to sort of change the composition of it but like that is what polyamory is so maybe I don't know.

你会想让你的现任伴侣们互相认识吗，还是

Would you want to introduce any of your current partners to each other or is it

你希望他们彼此不要真的了解对方？

something like you want them to not really know each other?

我觉得我非常希望他们能成为朋友，其中一些人已经见过面，而且彼此非常喜欢，这真的很美好。

I think I would really love them to like to be friends and some of them like have met and really like each other and it's really lovely.

好的，你和男朋友在一起时间最长，但他是你主要的伴侣吗？

Okay so your boyfriend you've been with him for the longest but is he your your primary?

这其实是我刚开始决定要开放关系时一直纠结的大问题，我当时在努力理解开放关系到底意味着什么，而他的看法是，这种分类不公平。

So this was actually a big thing that I was struggling with when I first decided we would be poly and I was trying to understand what it meant and his feeling was like that's an unfair categorization.

这种分类让你无法有机会和某人建立关系并让它自然发展，因为总会有另一个人被认为更重要。

It doesn't give you the opportunity to be in a relationship with someone and let it grow naturally because there's always this other person who's going to be more important.

有一段时间我真的很困扰，因为我觉得我跟你交往的时间最长，感觉自然就是这样，但后来我越想越觉得，确实，给关系贴上标签和分等级，会让与其他人的关系显得不够真诚。

For a while I really struggled with it because I'm like well I've been dating you the longest it just feels natural but then the more I thought about it like I kind of do agree that putting those like labels and hierarchies just make the relationships with other people feel a little bit less genuine.

所以我尽量明确一点：我确实有一个长期伴侣，我们已经一起讨论过未来，甚至可能同居，但这并不会改变我希望与你互动和共同成长的方式。

So I try to be pretty clear like I do have a lot of a pretty long term partner and we've talked about the future together and possibly moving in together but that doesn't change like the way that I want to like interact and grow with you too.

现在和你交往的每个人，他们也都自认为是开放关系者吗？

Is everyone who's in a relationship with you right now do they also consider themselves polyamorous?

我觉得我目前最认真交往的三个人都是，还有一些人我偶尔会见面，一年就见几次，平时发发消息。

I would say the three people that I'm seeing the most seriously right now do and then there's some other people that I like some people I see like really occasionally, a couple times a year and we text.

但所有我交往的人都对这种关系模式感到自在。

But everyone who I like see is comfortable with it.

不是每个人都认同这一点。

Not everyone identifies with it.

当你刚开始和某人约会时，你会怎么提起这件事呢？

And how do you bring that up when you're

刚开始约会时，你会怎么提起这件事？

just starting to date someone?

有时候表现得非常糟糕。

Sometimes really poorly.

在Tinder上，我超爱Tinder，我会直接说自己是开放关系者，因为我觉得最好一开始就说明白，让对方心里有数。但现实中遇到人就比较难了，有几次我第一次约会后才意识到：天啊，我居然完全忘了提这件事，这真是个重大疏忽！我其实想在第一次约会时就告诉每个人，所以有几次我事后发消息说：嘿，我真的很喜欢你，和你相处特别开心，真的很抱歉我完全忘了提这件大事，而且……

So on Tinder, which is great love me some Tinder, I like to say that I'm poly just because I'm like let's get it out there so anyone sort of knows that going in but like when I meet someone in life like it's a little bit harder and there's been times where like I realized after first date like oh my god I never mentioned it and it's totally an oversight like I want to mention it on the first date with everyone and so there's been a couple of times where I like text the person and I'm like hey I really like you and this is really fun and I'm so sorry I totally forgot to mention this like really big deal thing and like

如果你不想再见面，我完全理解。

I totally understand if you don't want to see

我再也不想见到你了。

me again.

我真的很享受认识你的过程，也很想多聊聊这个身份，以及它让你有什么感受。

I really enjoyed getting to know you and like would love to talk more about this identity and like how it makes you feel.

人们对此有什么反应？

How have people reacted to that?

实际上反应非常积极。

Actually really positively.

真不错。

Cool.

是的，我觉得那种

Yeah I think that sort

发消息的方式非常明确，表明你不是故意隐瞒或类似的情况，否则性质就不同了

of messaging is just so clear that you're not hiding it on purpose or something like that, which would be different

我理解你的处境

I know what you situation.

没人会想那样做，因为感觉太刻薄了

Would want to do that because it just feels so mean.

一夫一妻制对很多人来说是完全可行且不错的选择

Monogamy is a totally viable and good option for so many people.

我不认为因为我是开放关系就比别人高尚，我只是觉得这真的很适合我，也许也适合那些不知道自己适合这种关系的人；但我同时也认为，有很多人是适合一夫一妻制的，他们从一夫一妻中感到安心。

I don't think I'm holier than thou for being poly, I just think it really works for me and I think maybe it works for people who don't know it would but I also think there's lots of people who monogamy is meant for and like people feel secure with monogamy.

我完全理解。

Totally get it.

那你现在在使用约会软件吗？

So are you currently on dating apps?

是的，不过只用Tinder。

Yes just Tinder though.

为什么选Tinder？

Why Tinder?

我不知道，其他软件看起来都更偏向建立长期关系。

I don't know the other ones seem like more relationship focused.

我很欣赏这一点，因为我可以同时拥有伴侣，定期见面，也喜欢随意约会和发生关系——我就是个浪荡子。

I appreciate that I can sort of like have partners and people I see more regularly and also like I like to casually date and hook up like I'm a slut.

不是每个开放关系的人都浪荡，只是我恰好是。

Not every polyamorous person is a slut, I just am.

所以这样挺好的，是的，我觉得很多用Bumble的人，我也不总想主动发消息。

So it's nice to like yeah and I think a lot of like Bumble, I also don't really want to message first always.

而且我

And I

我是酷儿，认同自己是双性恋，意味着我被我的性别以及其他性别吸引，所以我把所有性别都开放了，但我真的很喜欢收到男性突然发来的直接又热烈的讯息。

have like I'm queer and identify as bisexual meaning into my gender and other genders and so I have like all genders on but I do really appreciate like an out of the blue kind of aggressive gender message from a man.

很多人在我们征集问题时提到的一件事是

One thing that a lot

嫉妒

of people asked about when we put out feelers for questions was jealousy

以及你在多边关系中如何应对嫉妒。

and how you deal with jealousy in a poly situation.

我觉得很多人以为，如果你是多边恋者，就不会嫉妒，但我其实经常嫉妒，这很正常。

I feel like a lot of people think like oh if you're poly you just you don't get jealous and I feel like I get jealous all the time and it's normal.

是的，这真让我惊讶。

Yeah that really surprises me.

那你感到嫉妒的时候会怎么做？

So what do you do when you get jealous?

好吧，现在我想再提一次《伦理荡妇》这本书，每个人都应该读一读，因为它有一整章讲嫉妒，我觉得这不仅对非单偶关系、多边关系的人有用，对任何人都很有帮助。

Okay so this is the time when I want to just talk about the ethical slut one more time and that everyone should read it because there's a whole chapter on jealousy and I think it applies not only to people who are in non monogamous relationships, poly relationships, it's just really useful.

比如，当你感到嫉妒时，应该试着静下心来体会这种情绪，如果你想告诉伴侣，可以说：‘你今晚要去约会，我有点不舒服，有点嫉妒，但这并不意味着我不希望你去。’

Like the idea being that like if you feel jealous you should try to sit in your jealousy a little bit and like if you want to tell your partner about it be like hey you're going on a date with someone tonight and I feel a little bit uncomfortable with it, a little bit jealous, but that doesn't mean I don't want you to go.

我不是在说被动攻击，而是想让你知道我的感受，我会观察自己几天内会如何反应。

Like I'm not saying it's passive aggressively, it's just that I want you to know how I'm feeling and I'm gonna see how I react to it in a couple of days.

这对我帮助很大，因为以前在大学时，我和男友开放关系，他经常安排好晚上的约会，而那时他似乎比我有更多的社交互动。

And it's helped me a lot because there were times like especially in college when I was open with my boyfriend where he would have like dates lined up for nights and he at that time too I feel like was getting a lot more like action than I was.

所以我会想：‘你今晚要去约会，我之所以嫉妒，是因为我们今晚不能一起待了，但明天我可能就会觉得没事了。’

So me sort of being like you're gonna go out on a date and the reason that I'm jealous is because we don't get to hang out tonight but tomorrow I'm probably gonna feel fine about it.

有时候第二天我会觉得有点怪怪的，特别是那时候我们还没正式成为多边关系，我总是担心：‘万一他们相爱了怎么办？’

And then sometimes the next day I felt kind of weird about it especially because at that point we weren't poly so I was always worried like what if they fall in love?

那我该怎么办？

What will I do?

但我觉得，和嫉妒共处，还有珍妮特·哈迪？

But like I think that sitting in with the jealousy and like Janet Hardy?

《伦理性的荡妇》的合著者之一，她谈到自己感到非常嫉妒时会怎么做。

Woman one of the women who co authored Ethical Slut talks about what she does when she's feeling really jealous.

她喜欢做些家庭装修项目，让自己大汗淋漓，我觉得这也是个很棒的办法。

She likes to like do home improvement projects and get really sweaty and I feel like that's a great option too.

我喜欢写一些伤感的歌曲，然后去睡觉，第二天早上醒来再做点别的事。

Like I like to like write kind of some sad songs and then go to sleep and then wake up the next day and like do stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

我想听听你那些关于嫉妒的伤感歌曲。

I wanna hear your sad jealousy songs.

天啊。

Oh my god.

写过好多了。

Have so many.

我会写一首

I'll write

给这个

one for the

播客。

podcast.

你。

You.

你们很快就能听到。

You guys will be able to hear it soon.

我觉得嫉妒是

And I feel like jealousy is

所有关系中都很正常，或者至少在所有浪漫关系中都是如此，但我在友谊中也感受过嫉妒。

normal in all relationships, or at least all romantic ones, but I've even felt jealousy in my friendships.

我想有时候在资本主义文化中，我们太个人主义了，总觉得我需要

Think just sometimes we're capitalist culture, individualistic, like I need to

要成为你生命中的第一

be number one in your

但我觉得，我不

But I think, I don't

知道，当我前女友曾经

know, when my ex used

告诉我他会吃醋时，这让我感到兴奋，因为这意味着他对我有感情。

to tell me he would get jealous it kind of got me excited because it meant that he has feelings for me.

是的。

Oh yeah.

但我猜这不一样，因为他是唯一的人。

But I guess it was different because he was the only person.

所以我可以告诉他：不不不，你才是唯一的一个。

So I could be like, no no no, you're the only one.

而对波莉来说，你就不会这么说。

Whereas with Polly, that wouldn't be what you would say.

但我觉得这个解释本身就很牵强。

But I feel like that's a lame explanation anyway.

我觉得更好的说法可能是：不不不，我也爱你。

I feel like it might be better to say, no no no, I love you too.

但我完全能理解，当有人表示‘我非常在乎你’时的那种兴奋感，从某种意义上说，这种话就像是‘我嫉妒了’，因为想到别人拥有你，这种想法简直可怕，因为我太爱你了。

I can totally understand though the excitement of someone being like I care a lot about you and in one way someone can say that is like I'm jealous because I know someone else like like the idea of someone else having you is like such a horrible thing to think about because I love you so much.

我觉得即使在多边恋爱关系中，也可以这样说。

I think that can be said even in a polyamorous relationship.

所以

So

关于纪念日或者情人节这类事情，你会默认和你的男朋友一起过吗？我是说，和你交往时间最长的那位男朋友？这通常是怎么处理的？

with anniversaries or Valentine's Day sort of stuff like that do you kind of default to your boyfriend or I mean your longest relationship boyfriend or how does that work?

这是个好问题。

That's a good question.

其实今年我就遇到过这种情况，当时我和其他人约好了情人节前后见面——不是情人节当天，因为那天是周四，然后我男朋友突然说：‘天啊，我刚搭上顺风车，这周末可以来看你，我来吗？’

It's actually I kind of ran into that this year a little bit where like other people I were seeing I had plans with for Valentine's Day times, like not the day of because it was like a Thursday, and then my boyfriend was like oh my god I just got a ride to come visit you this weekend, I come?

我当时就想，当然了，尤其是因为他住在新罕布什尔州，离得最远，于是我取消了和其他人的计划，这确实让对方感到非常复杂和难过，我完全能理解。

And I was like well of course, especially because he's like the he's the one in New Hampshire and is the farthest away, and then cancelled the plans with other people and it was actually really complicated and upsetting for them which I totally understand.

所以我觉得我需要更清楚地表达这一点，因为这会制造一种分裂感：‘这是我的主要伴侣，所以我这么做’，但其实这也是我交往时间最长、有情人节回忆、住得最远、几乎从不来看我的人，情况要复杂得多。

So I think like that's something that I really want to work more at being clear about because then it really creates this divide of like no that's my primary so I do this but it's also like it's someone I've been dating the longest and who I have Valentine's Day history with and who lives really far away and who like rarely visits so it's like a much more complicated thing.

是的，你不得不做出一个艰难的决定。

Yeah you had to make a hard decision.

我认为你做的是对的。

I think it was the right one.

好吧，这个对你来说可能没什么影响，因为大家都分散各处，但我们收到一个问题：你们怎么安排性生活？

Well, okay, so this doesn't really affect you because everyone's all over the place but I think a question that we got was like how do you figure out sex?

比如是提前安排好，还是怎么处理？

Like do you schedule it out or like what happens?

我觉得这其实挺幸运的，或者说比较容易，因为我的伴侣们住得相对远一些，而我和最亲近的人反而没这个问题，但其他情况下就看具体情况了。

I guess this is really a lucky or an easier thing because my partner sort of live a little bit farther away, the people that I'm the closest with, but like otherwise it just sort of depends.

比如，如果我正在和某人约会，我们很可能就会发生关系，那就是安排好的时机；或者如果我只是想要一次随意的性关系，我也会找一些匿名的方式解决。

Like if I'm seeing someone who I've been dating we probably will end up having sex and that's the time that it's scheduled or like if I just like really kind of want casual sex I do something kind of anonymous that happens too.

但我不会提前告诉伴侣这件事，我通常事后才聊。

But I don't tell partners about it beforehand, I usually talk about it afterwards.

就像做个简要汇报。

Sort of like a rundown.

我会说：嘿，只是让你知道，昨晚发生了点事，而且也不总是第二天就谈，这其实是我之前没和伴侣们聊过的事，但我和所有交往的人都做过同样的事，这还挺好的，因为我们都会交流，他们会说：哦，是啊，我上周也发生了这样的事，还有那样的事，我就会说：太棒了，我也遇到了这样的事，我们就这样互相交流一下。

I'll be like hey just so you know this happened last night and it's not always even the next day and it's it's actually something I haven't talked about with my partners but we all sort of everyone that I'm with has done the same thing which is kind of nice where it's like we we talk and they're like oh yeah and I had this thing happen last week and this thing and I'm like oh amazing I had this thing and this thing we kind of like check-in with each

关于这些事。

other about it.

跟朋友聊聊近况。

Catching up with your friend.

你不需要向他们坦白或征得同意才能去和别人发生关系，因为你有权做任何你想做的事。

You don't need to confess to them that you're or like check with them that it's okay to go and have sex with someone else because you're allowed to do whatever you

想做的。

want.

不错。

Cool

是的，我觉得有时候一些伴侣确实会有一些规则，比如如果你这样做，可能会让我感觉有点不舒服。

yeah and I think also sometimes like some partners like do have some sort of rules about it like or like this might make me feel a little bit uncomfortable if you do this.

所以如果我知道某种情况可能会让他们觉得有点奇怪，我会提前告诉他们：嘿，我对这个人有点兴趣，你怎么看？

So like if I know it's sort of a situation that might make them feel a little bit weird I'll let them know beforehand be like hey I'm kind of interested in this person how do you feel about it?

如果是我们俩都认识的人，那就更好了。

It's better if it's someone like we both know.

这种情况下我才会提出来。

That's the kind of situation in which I would bring it up.

但除此之外，我在关系中设定的界限让这些自然随意的事情变得很容易发生，这也是我喜欢开放式关系的原因之一。

But otherwise like the boundaries that I have set in my relationships make it sort of easy to have those like nice sort of spontaneous things which is one of the reasons I like being poly.

或者我想说，这与其说是多爱，不如说更多是关于伦理上的非一夫一妻制，因为多爱更多是关于爱很多人，而这个只是关于非monogamy。

Or I guess that's less of being polyamorous because that's more about like loving many people and this is more about just being ethically non monogamous.

我喜欢偶尔和不是我伴侣、而且可能永远都不会成为我伴侣的人发生关系，我喜欢拥有这样的机会。

Like I like to hook up with people sometimes who aren't my partners and who probably will never be my partners, like and I like having that opportunity to do that.

所以你每次和新伴侣建立关系时，都会告诉对方：这些对我来说很重要，你呢？什么对你重要？

And so you establish those rules or those boundaries with each new partner you'll tell them these are the things that are important to me, what's important to you?

你怎么确定哪些是可以接受的，哪些是不可以的？

Like how do you establish what's allowed and what's not?

这是个非常好的问题，我觉得过去我有时候表达得不够清楚。

That's a really good question and I think sometimes in the past I haven't been clear enough.

我通常会直接说：我是开放关系的，有时会和别人发生关系，也会和一些关系更深入的人交往，我通常会告诉我的伴侣，然后问：你呢？

I'll just sort of be like yeah I'm poly and I like to hook up with other people sometimes and I also see some other people too that are a little bit more serious and I'll usually tell my partner that and then be like what about you?

但我觉得有时候我们是在问题出现时才逐渐明确界限的。

But I think sometimes we figure out boundaries as they come up.

好的，你说你从2018年9月开始进入开放关系。

Okay so you said you started being polyamorous in September 2018

是的。

yeah.

好的，你告诉父母了吗？

Okay did you tell your parents?

我告诉了我妈妈，因为当时我和一个正在交往的人一起外出，我说我要带我的朋友去，她就说：好啊，太棒了。

So I told my mom because we were out with someone that I was seeing and I was like I'm bringing my friend and she was like cool, great.

然后她说：'艾玛，你的朋友真可爱。' 我说：'我们其实不是朋友。'

And then she was like Emma your friend is cute and I was like we're not really friends.

她问：'你什么意思？'

She's like what do you mean?

她感到非常惊讶，花了点时间才消化，后来我告诉她我还在和一些其他人交往，她似乎有点嫉妒。

And she was like so surprised and it took her like a little time and then I sort of told her about some of the other people that I was seeing and like she was like sort of jealous.

她说：'天啊，我真希望我年轻时也能这么大胆。'

She was like oh my god I wish I had been that adventurous in my youth.

我说：'是啊，确实如此。'

I was like oh yeah

这感觉挺好的。

which is like it was nice.

我的意思是，我很庆幸给了她一些时间去思考，因为我觉得人们对这件事的第一反应往往并不积极。

Mean like I'm glad I gave her some time to think about it too because I feel like people's first reactions to it are not always positive.

我不知道她会有什么反应，但这样慢慢来感觉很好。

I don't know what hers would have been but it was nice to like.

我还没有告诉家人中的其他人。

I haven't told anyone else in my family.

比如我爸爸还不知道，尽管我觉得他可能能接受，但我也不确定。

Like my dad doesn't know even though I think maybe he would be okay with it, I'm just not sure.

而且这也很困难，因为我的整个家人都认识我男朋友，他参加过很多活动，还拜访过住在国家其他地方的我的家人。

And it's also tough because like my entire family knows my boyfriend, like he's come to lots of events and he's visited my family who live in other parts of the country.

所以我觉得这可能会让他们很困惑，但我妈妈对此很支持，一些表亲也知道。

So I think it might just confuse them a lot, but my mom's cool with it and some of my cousins know.

你是否曾经想过把其他伴侣带到家庭活动中？

Would you ever want to bring your other partners to family events?

是的，但我不知道是否能称他们为我的伴侣。

Yeah but I don't know if I could call them my partners.

我不确定我能不能。

I'm not sure I could.

是因为你自己也不愿意吗？

Because you don't want to yourself?

我只是说

I just quote

是的，意思是我的女朋友见过我父母，我之前和她谈过，我说我真的很希望你见见他们，我妈妈知道我们在交往，但我不会在他们面前称你为我的女朋友。

Yeah, mean like my girlfriend met my parents and I talked to her before and I was like I really want you to meet them and like my mom knows that we're seeing each other but I'm not gonna call you my girlfriend in front of them.

这样可以吗？

Is that okay?

她就说，是的，我完全理解。

And she was like yeah I totally understand.

而且对她父母也是这样，她妈妈知道，但她爸爸不知道。

And like with her parents too, like her mom knows and her dad doesn't.

妈妈们。

Moms.

向妈妈致敬！

Shout out to mom!

所以作为犹太人，我在想宗教对你来说重要吗？

So being Jewish I'm wondering if religion matters to you.

如果你是

If you're

我的意思是，有很多人会说自己是好犹太人或坏犹太人。

mean, there's a lot of I'm a good Jew or a bad Jew.

你让她处在了一个安全的环境中。

You got her in a safe space.

我们俩都是犹太女性。

We're both Jewesses.

妈妈真的很希望我的三个兄弟娶犹太女性，因为根据犹太律法，孩子只有在母亲是犹太人的情况下才算犹太人。

Like, mom really wants my three brothers to marry Jewish women because the baby is only Jewish well like you know through Jewish law.

如果母亲是犹太人，但你作为一个女性，这真的重要吗？你在意伴侣是不是犹太人吗？

If the mother is Jewish but you being a woman like does that even matter and do you care if your partners are Jewish or not?

目前，我其中一个伴侣、我特别喜欢的人，还有另一个我正在交往的人，都是犹太人。

So right now like one of my partners and someone I really have a crush on and I think actually yes someone else who I'm sort of seeing are Jewish.

但我很幸运，我家的犹太背景，尤其是我父亲那边，有点像 WASP 那种风格。

But I'm sort of lucky in that like I have the kind of Jewish family that especially like my dad's side that are like a little waspy.

有盎格鲁-撒克逊新教背景的犹太人。

Waspy Jewish.

他们都娶了……等等，这不对。

They've all married I mean that's not true.

有些人娶了非犹太人，有些人只是约会。

Some of them married non non Jews and some people dated.

我知道。

I know.

我家里也有一些非犹太人。

I've got some non Jews in my family.

打算改宗，我曾经

Gonna convert I've

觉得是的。

think yeah.

我家里也有一些人已经改宗了。

Some of the ones in my family have also converted.

但在我家，这种情况似乎稍微正常化了一些。

But like it's sort of a little more normalized in my family.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我觉得我父母已经接受了这一点，因为我认真交往过、他们知道的那些人，没有一个是犹太人。

And like I think my parents have sort of come to terms with it because the people that I've dated most seriously that they know about none of them have been Jewish.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以我觉得这也没什么大不了的。

So and I think it's sort of okay.

至少目前，我妈妈唯一关心的似乎是我将来能不能生孩子。

At least like right now the only thing that my mom seems to care about is like my potential to have babies.

我

I'm

比如，是不是

like, is

你妈妈的晚餐？

your dinner mom?

她会说：不客气。

And she'll be like, you're welcome.

用孩子来还我。

Pay me back

用孩子。

with babies.

这不太酷。

That's not cool.

所以，你觉得自己会一直这样下去吗？我知道你只是从九月才开始的，显然你不需要现在就规划好人生，但你认为这是你这辈子想一直做的事吗？

So do you see yourself as always and I know that you just started doing this in September, so obviously you don't need to have a plan for how your life's gonna pan out, but is this something you just want to do for the rest of your life do you think?

我感觉我已经做了很久了，所以今天走过来的时候，我还想我到底是什么时候开始的，结果才发现才五六个月，真不可思议，我想一辈子都做下去，是的。

It feels like I've been doing it so much longer which is why like on my walk over here I was like I should know when I started doing this and I like it's only been like five months six months that's crazy I want to do it forever yeah.

即使我最终做了那种常规的事，比如和一个人结婚或者生孩子，我还是想要其他伴侣，我也相信共同养育和伴侣共同参与，能帮助孩子成长为聪明有趣的人。

Even if I like ended up doing sort of like the normative thing if I end up like getting married to a person or having kids like I still want to have other partners and I also like believe in the power of co parenting and partners helping to shape a kid into becoming a really smart and interesting person.

这又是我喜欢《伦理性的荡妇》的另一点：它由两位长期实践多元情感或非专一关系的年长女性撰写，她们经历过在多位成年人共同参与下抚养孩子，帮助他们成长为优秀的人。

And that's another thing I love about The Ethical Slut is it's written by two older women who have been polyamorous or non homogamous for a really long time and so they've gone through what it's like to raise kids with lots of adults in their lives to help shape them into being good people.

我喜欢做

I like Do

你的所有伴侣都满足了不同的需求吗？

all of your partners fulfill different needs?

是的，我很高兴你提到这一点，因为这正是我想聊的话题。

Yeah I'm actually really glad that you just brought that up because like oh that's the thing I want to talk about.

我认为这件事最美好的一点是，我并不期望从一个人身上得到所有东西，这也意味着他们的时间，或者他们是谁。

I think one of the nicest things about it is like I don't really expect everything from one person which also means like their time or like who they are.

我约会的人有着非常不同的性格，有时候，比如我需要和某人谈谈某件事，是的，你就是这么说的——如果我需要和某人谈某事，有时候我会清楚地知道，哦，这位伴侣特别适合和我聊这件事。我觉得，由于我不期待一个人能提供一切，所以对一个人能给予什么的期待也少了很多。

Like I date people who have like really different personalities and sometimes like really know how to like like if I have need to talk to someone about something yeah that's how you say that someone if I need to talk about something to someone yeah sometimes I like kind of know like oh this partner is a really good person to talk to about this thing and I feel like there's also like just way fewer expectations from what a person can offer because I don't expect them to offer everything.

我觉得我们可能并不会在未来永远以同样的方式成长，也不会一起生孩子、埋葬在相邻的墓地里。

I'm like if we don't really seem like maybe we're like gonna grow the same way in the future forever and make babies together and get buried in plots next to one another.

我觉得，好吧。

I'm like, fine.

是的。

Yeah.

我现在只是享受和你约会，享受你这个人，以及我的一些伴侣如何让我成长——如果我是一夫一妻制的，我可能会想：‘哦，他们没能满足我所有需求，所以未来这段关系不会成功。’

I just am enjoying dating you right now and who you are as a person and the ways that I think some of my partners let me grow because if I were monogamous I would be like oh well they don't fulfill everything so this is not gonna work out in the future.

而现在的想法是：这个人很棒，我们有很多共同点，也有很多不同点，但我依然想和他约会，因为我希望向他学习。我认为，这是我从伴侣身上学到的一个重要区别。

As opposed to now being like this person is incredible and we have a lot of things in common, a lot of things not in common and I want to date them anyways because I want to learn from them And that's I think a big difference that I'm learning a lot from my partners.

是的，作为一夫一妻制的人，当我约会某人时，就意味着我希望这个人会是我将来想娶的人——如果我不打算和他结婚，那我为什么要和他约会呢？

Yeah because as a monogamous person when I date someone it is like if I date this person it's the person I'm I hope it's the person I'm gonna wanna marry and why would I date them if I don't wanna marry them?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Right.

有一段时间，它

At one point, it's

是在浪费我的时间。

a waste of my time.

你们是分手还是结婚？

When you break up with them or you marry them?

是的。

Yeah.

就是那个，是的。

Which Yeah.

这太有压力了。

Is just so stressful.

我在想，我这个年纪怎么才能做出人生承诺呢？

I'm like how can I make a life commitment at this age?

而且

And

我对多元恋爱非常感兴趣。

I'm very interested in polyamory.

我经常在思考这个问题。

Like I I think about it a lot.

是吗？

Yeah?

对。

Yeah.

我

I

不知道。

don't know.

看你这么做。

See you doing it.

对。

Yeah.

谁知道呢？

Who knows?

你才知道。

You do.