我的青春期孩子开始疏远我，这正常吗？

当你的孩子逐渐长大，不再愿意与你交流时，你会怎么做？当你开始怀疑，这只是青春期前孩子的正常行为，还是有什么值得关注的事情需要我多加留意？今天，我要和一位母亲聊聊，她非常坦诚地分享了自己与儿子相处的困境。她的儿子一向话少，但最近似乎更加沉默，她不确定是该顺其自然还是该介入干预。

What do you do when your kid is getting older and no longer wants to talk to you? Where you start to wonder, is this just normal tween behavior, or is there something concerning happening that I should be more on top of? Today, I'm talking to a mom who is very open about the struggle she's going through with her son. Her son has always been quiet, but he seems to have gotten more quiet, and she's not sure whether she should let this stage be or intervene.

我的大儿子11岁了。大概过去一年左右，他变得越来越沉默。我一直在寻找资料，想弄清楚这种沉默是否正常。我总希望有人能透视我们的家庭生活，告诉我这正常或不正常，因为你知道，作为母亲，你是唯一全天候见证孩子成长的人。抱歉。

So my older son is 11. Over the past, I'd say, year or so, he's just been getting more sort of quiet. And I have been looking for resources to help me figure out whether or not this is normal quiet. And so, I keep wishing someone could look inside our home and tell me that's not normal or that's normal because, you know, as a mom, you're the only one who sees your kid all day, every day. Sorry.

我有点情绪激动。所以，是的，我只是想确认他是否真的没事。无论答案如何，我都需要明确下一步该为他做些什么。

I'm getting a little emotional. So, yeah, just trying to figure out if he's okay, really whether he is or isn't. Figure out next steps and what I should be doing for him.

感谢你如此清晰而深刻地表达这些感受，我是认真的。我保证在我面前你永远不必为你的情感道歉，甚至不必为‘为情感道歉’这件事道歉。这一点我也要说清楚。我认为在育儿的任何阶段，当我们思考与孩子相关的事情时，都可能会非常情绪化。

So thank you for articulating that so clearly, so poignantly. I mean that. And I promise you never have to apologize for your feelings with me, and you don't also need to apologize for apologizing for your feelings. So let me make that clear as well. You know, I think at any stage of parenting, we, you know, could be very emotional when we think about things with our kids.

尤其是孩子从青春期前过渡到青春期的阶段，对父母而言是情感波动剧烈的时期。我自己也正经历着，所以这完全正常。能否再具体说说，是什么情况让你产生‘这正常吗’的疑虑？我喜欢从具体事例开始分析。

And certainly, the, like, tween into teen years are highly emotional years for a parent. I've been living that myself, and so that is completely normal. So tell me a little bit more, maybe specifically, what's going on that kind of gets you into that. Is this normal or not? And I actually love starting with a very specific situation.

最近有没有发生什么特别的事，触发了你对‘儿子是否正常/健康’这类担忧？

So what maybe what is something that's happened recently that kind of brings up this? Is this normal? Is my son okay or not? Kind of fear.

是的。这是个好问题。大多数日子，他放学回家后，我会尽量克制不连珠炮似地追问‘今天过得怎么样’——这种问题显得太刻意了。

Yeah. It's a good question. So most days, he will come home from school. I try not to barrage him with questions and pass the how was your day thing. It seems too obvious.

这有点太直接了。你知道，这太模糊了，因为你得到了好的反馈，然后他就转移了注意力。对我来说，我听到太多朋友讲述他们孩子的故事，比如，哦，我儿子前几天来找我，告诉我关于x、y、z的事情。而我会想，他不会来找我告诉我这些事。他并不会急着和我分享任何事。

It's too sort of in your face. It's too, you know, nebulous because you get back the good and then he's moved on. I think what's happening for me is I hear so many stories from my friends about their kids like, oh, my son came to me the other day and he was telling me about x, y, and z. And I think to myself like, he doesn't come to me and tell me those things. Like, he doesn't rush to tell me about really anything.

如果我追问，他会回答具体的问题。但必须是被逼问，而且得相当严厉，他并不生气。我一直说他安静，但他确实安静，似乎总是沉浸在自己的世界里。然而晚上他会去和朋友打游戏，我听到他活泼地喊叫、大笑、交换故事。所以当我问我丈夫，你觉得他可能抑郁了吗？

If I press him, he will answer pointed questions. But he has to be pressed and he has to be pressed pretty hard and he's not angry. He's just I keep saying quiet, but he's quiet and he's like, he just seems like he's in his own head. But then he will go off and play video games at night with his friends and I hear him lively yelling, laughing, trading stories. So then when I say to my husband like, do you think he could be depressed?

比如，你觉得我们忽略了什么吗？他会说，我不认为他会跑上去和朋友玩得那么开心。我觉得抑郁会全面影响所有方面。但我不确定。我们又不是儿童心理学家。

Like, do you think we're missing something? He'll say, I don't think he would be running up there and having fun with his friends. I think it would globally transcend all things. But I don't know. And he doesn't know we're not child psychologists.

你知道吗？这件事一直萦绕在我心头。

You know? And it's just constantly on my mind.

这是持续的。我是贝基医生，这里是《内在美好》。广告之后我们马上回来。虽然是我编的，但你儿子杰克回家时，你会说，嘿。然后可能有一段简短的对话。

It's constant. I'm doctor Becky, and this is Good Inside. And we'll be back right after this. So I'm making this up, but your son, Jack, comes home and you're like, hey. And, you know, maybe a short conversation.

今天过得怎么样？还行。我不知道他是不是低着头看地板，甚至没怎么看你，可能正要走进他的房间，然后关上门。你有点茫然地留在厨房。之后你会怎么想？

How's your day? It was good. And I don't know if he's, like, looking down at the floor, not even really looking at you, maybe just on the way to walk into his room and goes to his room, closes the door. You're kind of left, I don't know, in the kitchen. And then what happens for you?

对吧？因为现在和杰克的事件结束了，作为父母我也知道。现在我开始在心里编故事了。让我了解你在那次互动后的内心世界吧。

Right? Because now the event with Jack is over, and I know as a parent too. Now the story begins that I start to tell myself. Let me in on your internal world after that interaction.

是啊。然后我就不由自主地想，我该追上去吗？该上楼去吗？该逼他跟我多说说话吗？这样步步紧逼，会不会反而把他推得更远？

Yeah. So then I'm automatically thinking, should I go after him? Should I go upstairs? Should I make him talk to me more? By pushing him, am I gonna, like, push him even further away?

你说，我该找他朋友的父母聊聊吗？该问他们‘你儿子也这样吗’？我脑子里不断循环着该做什么不该做什么的念头——给他空间？不给他空间？

You know, should I talk to his friend's parents? Should I ask them, is your son like this? It's a constant, like, feed in my head about what I should do or not do. Give him space. Don't give him space.

我们家有个基本规定：不准独自在卧室里玩电子设备。所以他可以到阁楼和朋友打游戏，但那里没装门，我们能听见动静。因此他不会躲进房间关上门——一来我觉得这不是他的作风，二来这本身就是我们明令禁止的。

We have a general rule in our house about not being on devices in your room by yourself. So he is allowed to go to the attic and play video games with his friends, but there's no door up there. So we can hear and whatnot. So he doesn't go to his room and close his door. One, I think because he wouldn't choose to do that because it just doesn't it doesn't seem like something he would want to do to me, but but he's just not it's nothing we allow.

所以他不会那么做

So he doesn't do

。让我插句话，詹妮弗。这些念头会困扰你多久？比如他走开后——是30秒？还是30分钟？

that. And so let me let me jump in for a sec, Jennifer. How long will those thoughts last for you? Like, so he's, let's say, walked away. Is this, like, thirty seconds, like, thirty minutes?

懂我意思吗？这种‘他没事吧？该不该追上去？该不该联系他朋友父母？’的内心戏会持续多久？

You know? How long is it so loud? Like, oh, is he okay? Should I go after him? And should I talk to his friends, parents?

其他孩子也这样吗？他是抑郁了吗？还是没到那个程度？——说说看，你觉得这种思绪会占据你脑海多长时间？

Is this going on for other kids? And is he depressed? And is he not? Like, tell me how about how long do you think that will occupy your thoughts?

是的。因为我通常一边工作一边照顾年幼的孩子，这种声音大概会持续几分钟，然后就被下一件要做的事取代，但之后它又会回来。

Yeah. Because I'm usually in the middle of trying to work and manage my younger child, I would say it probably goes on for a few minutes, and then is replaced with the next thing I have to do, but then it comes back.

所以实际上，我想和你做的第一件事就是与那个声音、你内心的那个部分建立一种关系。因为那个部分肯定是有用的，我觉得她就像一个警报铃。对吧？就像在说，嘿，这里有问题吗？

So actually, the first thing I wanna do with you is kind of develop a relationship with that voice, that part of you. Because that part is is useful for sure, and I think she's like an alarm bell. Right? That's like, hey. Is there a problem here?

对吧？我们没有任何确凿的证据表明有问题，但你无法证明一个否定。对吧？你也会想，我不确定这里没有问题，对吧？这种想法可以让我们纠结很久很久。我也有过这样的时刻。

Right? And we don't have any distinct confirmation that there's a problem, but you can't disprove a negative. Right? You also are like, well, I don't know for sure that there's not a problem, right, which can keep us up for ages and ages. I've had those times too.

我认为我们必须确保你内心的那个部分被听到，并且有一个界限。因为我觉得——我暂时称她为'她'，这样也能给你一些空间——甚至从这种称呼中可以看出，她不是你全部。她是你的一部分。她很响亮，总是第一个站出来。

I think we have to make sure that part of you gets heard and has a boundary. Because I actually think and I'm gonna call her she for now just to give you a little space too to see even in this language that she's not all of you. She's a part of you. She's loud. She's first to the job.

明白吗？当杰克离开时，她是第一个说话的，但她真的不是你全部。我认为开始把这个部分看作是你的一部分，实际上对于弄清楚杰克的情况甚至很关键。我怎样才能仍然与他保持联系？除了我的恐惧之外，他需要我做什么？

You know? She's the first one who says something when Jack walks away, but she's really not all of you. And I think starting to think about this part as a part is actually gonna be really key to even figuring out what's going on with Jack. How can I still connect with him? What does he need from me separate from my fears?

我其实想大胆提议一下。我们可以给她起个名字吗？什么名字好呢？

I'm gonna actually go on a limb here. Can we call her something? What what's a good name?

我不知道。黛西吧。

I don't know. Daisy.

太好了，我喜欢。那是黛西。澄清一下，黛西并没有做错什么。她只是有点，嗯，有点过于活跃。

Great. Love it. That's Daisy. And Daisy, to be clear, is not doing anything wrong. She's just a little she's a little hyperactive.

就像，你知道的，她占据了大量发言时间。某种程度上，这助长了她的自我意识，而她其实是想帮忙。确实如此。就像我们孩子小时候，他们对于参加生日派对非常紧张——虽然我们心里明白其实没什么危险——但那种不安感主导了他们。比如，万一这样那样的事发生了怎么办？

Like, you know, she gets a lot of airtime. She's kind of, like, bolstered her ego around that, and she's trying to help. She is. Just like when our kids were young and they were really, I don't know, nervous about joining a birthday party where we internally know there's no real danger, but that part of them is leading with them. Like, oh, what if what if this happens and this happens?

然后，你知道的，他们就会有点亢奋。实际上我认为这本身就很有力量——只需要说'那是黛西'。你要知道，黛西总是下午四点或杰克回家时第一个进入工作状态的。她担心杰克遇到困难，这很正常。

And, you know, they get a little hyperactive. And I actually think this is really powerful in and of itself just to say, that's Daisy. And for you to know, Daisy is first on the job at 4PM or whenever Jack comes home. And Daisy is worried that Jack is struggling. That's okay.

这对你是有用的。不过黛西经常从有益的担忧变成过度热心，可能占用了过多空间。你觉得这个框架听起来怎么样？

That's useful to you. And Daisy can often go from worry as useful to a little bit overeager and probably taking up a little too much space. Tell me what that sounds like as a framework.

嗯，听起来很合理。

Yeah. That sounds fair.

很好。所以我首先希望你开始识别什么时候是黛西在说话。我觉得这里面有个恶性循环，带点末日预言的色彩，就像'我该怎么办？'

Great. So that's actually the first thing I want you to do is I want you to start recognizing when kind of Daisy's the one talking. And I think there's a spiral to it. There's a a little bit of doomsday to it. There's like, what should I do?

然后'我必须做点什么'——这就是第一步。我希望你形象化地想象：黛西就像你车上的乘客，而詹妮弗，你才是司机。

And I need to do something about this. And that's the first step. And I want you to actually visualize, really, like, Daisy is like a passenger in your car. That's the way I'd say it. But you, Jennifer, are the driver.

我认为这非常重要，因为当黛西成为你生活的驱动力时，我猜她并不会为你做出最佳决策。而且，我推测杰克能感受到她的存在，可能觉得她有点专横，或者说不够安抚人心。对吧？甚至对他来说，她有点激发焦虑的感觉。你觉得这种说法合理吗？

And I think that's really important because when Daisy becomes the driver of your car, my guess is she doesn't make the best decisions for you. And, also, I'm gonna guess that Jack can feel her and finds her a little maybe overbearing or, like, not soothing. Right? Finds her, like, a little activating even to him. Is that do you think that's fair?

是的。完全有可能。没错。

Yeah. It's entirely possible. Yes.

那我们姑且认为这就是黛西的特质。告诉我一些非黛西式的想法。还有哪些——这些想法对你可能没那么强烈，当然也不会以同样方式引发强烈情绪。但对于杰克这件事，你还会产生哪些其他想法？因为你说过他正在与朋友们互动。

So let's just say that that's kind of Daisy. Tell me some non Daisy thoughts. What else and doesn't mean these are as compelling to you, and they certainly don't catch fire in the same way. But what are the other thoughts that come up for you about this stuff with Jack? Because I know you said he's engaging with his friends.

我记得你之前提过，他似乎还在踢足球。从发展角度看，他作为11岁孩子的生活角色——上学、做功课、如果重要就继续运动、见朋友等等——听起来这些方面目前都不是问题，他仍然保持着这些常态。是这样吗？

I know you told me earlier, it seems like he's still playing soccer. It seems like his developmental kind of roles of, like, being an 11 year old, going to school, doing his work, staying in sports if that was important to him, seeing friends. Like, it sounds like those still are, you know, not areas of concern, that he's still kind of keeping those up. Is that is that accurate? For the

大体上是。他会说自己在学校表现不算出色，而我们也不是过分关注成绩的家庭。只要他达标我们就满意。不过我得说他对学业的投入度有所下降。现在是初中第一年的开始阶段。

most part, yes. He would say is not doing swimmingly well in school, And we are not people who hyper focus on grades. If he does well enough, that's fine with us. I would say his effort with school has fallen off. It's the beginning of a new for the first year in middle school.

新学校需要适应期，有新老师、更多科目、更多同学，全是新变量。所以我没有太紧盯这方面。从成长发育来看他一切正常，朋友也很多。

And so we are giving him time to adjust and it's a new school. There's new teachers, more teachers, like more kids, like all new variables. So I haven't really focused as much on that. Developmentally, he's doing fine. He has tons of friends.

这不成问题。他在体育方面表现非常出色。

That's not an issue. He does very well in sports.

所以，嗯。好吧。这是个有用的信息。还可能是什么情况呢？我并不是说没有大问题。

So yeah. Okay. That's good information. What else could this be? I'm not saying there's not a huge problem.

因为，你看，我们正在互相了解。我这么说并不是指确实存在问题。比如这位黛西，她已经深信不疑。所以她已经有那种担忧的解读了。那么还可能是什么原因呢？

Like, because, like, we're getting to know each other. That's not my way of saying that there is. Like, this Daisy, she's convinced. So she's already got that interpretation covered, worrying about that. So what else could this be?

我想这就是我想和你探讨的。

I guess that's what I want to explore with you.

我不知道。真的不知道。我觉得这可能完全正常——不仅仅因为他是个很棒的孩子，他本质上是个内向的人。而他这个年龄段，那些他一直以来的性格特征会更加明显。

I don't know. I I really don't. I think this could be anything from completely normal. And he is just not just because he's a wonderful child, but he is an introvert at heart. And the personality traits that he's always sort of had are more amplified during this age.

是的。

Yep.

那我们先停在这里，因为这样说很有帮助：杰克一直是个内向的孩子，他正在经历这个重大的人生转变。初中第一年，很多事情真的会改变。他们的课业负担变了。

So let's just pause there because that's that's useful just to say, okay. This could be that Jack's always been an introverted kid. He's going through this major life transition. That first year of middle school, there's so much that really changes. Their workload changes.

他们与家庭的分离方式变了。学校与家长的关系通常也会改变。对吧？分离更多了，孩子们会接收到这样的信号：你真的在长大了。

Their separation from families change. The school's relationship with parents often change too. Right? There's a lot more separation, and kids kind of get the message. Like, you're really growing up.

孩子们实际上必须学会如何成长。他们本能地知道，成长很大程度上意味着形成自己的身份，占据更多空间。我想分享一个极具视觉冲击力的观点：当孩子们试图确立自我认同时，往往会矫枉过正，因为他们最初的生活是与父母紧密相连的。即使不善言辞，他们也是我们家中亲密的居住者。既然他们知道自己的任务是塑造独立人格，就像我们青少年时期那样，最简单快捷的方式就是刻意保持距离。

And kids then actually have to figure out how to grow up. And they kind of know inherently that a lot of growing up means forming your own identity, taking more space. And something I wanna share with you that I think is powerful visually is as kids try to figure out their own identity, they often do overcorrect because they start out in life being close to their parents. Even if they're not talkers, they're kind of close inhabitants of our home. And if they kind of know their job is to figure out their own identity, well, just like many of us did when we were teens, the quickest and easiest way to do that is taking extra space.

因为至少与父母保持距离后，才能真正确认'这就是真实的我'。随着孩子成长，他们会逐渐回缩距离——虽然永远不会回到幼时的亲密程度（这符合发展规律），但通常也不会维持在青春期早期的疏远状态。当我用这个视角观察时，或许你会有不同解读：杰克正处于青春期前期，他通过拉开距离来探索自我。

Because at least if you have extra space from your parents, you know, I really know my own person. And then I think as our kids grow up, they do start to inch closer. They probably never get as close as they were, which is developmentally appropriate, but they often don't stay at the place they go to when they're tweens and teens. And if I think about that visual and I think about a part of you that might see it in a different way, that part might say, Jack is trying to figure out his, like, early tween teen years, and he's taking more space from me. And he's taking more distance as he's trying to figure this out.

这并非他最终的情感定位，只是他青春期旅程中的一个驿站。这个叙事框架之所以有用，并非因为它更正确，而是它不同于那种对未知变化的恐慌。珍妮弗，我还想探讨一个常被忽视的问题：随着孩子长大，他们减少交流、不愿共处确实符合发展规律——但同样符合规律的是，父母对此会产生复杂情绪。

This isn't his final resting place. This is kind of this place we're at in his journey into adolescence. So that I think is a useful narrative, not because it's more right, but it is different than a kind of panic and fear of what might be going on. The other thing I wanna say, and I'm curious if this is going on, Jennifer, is I think what's not talked about enough as our kids get older is, yes, it's developmentally appropriate for them to talk to us less, to not wanna spend as much time with us. Totally developmentally appropriate.

失落、悲伤、担忧...这些情感反应同样正常，而你现在正深陷其中。

I think it's also developmentally appropriate that parents have a lot of feelings about that. Like, we have a lot of feelings about that. Loss, sadness, worry, and it seems like that's a big part of what's going on for you.

是的。

Yeah.

当我这么说时，请告诉我你的感受。记住，我们的眼泪和情绪都是身体传递的重要信号。

Tell me tell me what's coming up as I as I say that for you. Again, our feelings, our tears are just such good information about what's happening in our body.

没错。你说得很对，确实是这样。我逐渐能接受这个事实了。但作为第一个孩子，加上我社交圈里很少有母亲讨论男孩的情感表达问题，这种未知让我恐惧。

Yes. I think you're definitely right. That is definitely happening. I guess, the thing for me is that I I can accept that or I'm getting to the place where I can accept that. I think my fear is that because he is my first, and because at least in my circles, I do not have a lot of moms talking about boys feelings or lack of expression of feelings.

我担心/黛西的是，如果这种沉默是病态的怎么办？如果这是他的抑郁症怎么办？如果他的沉默不正常，而他又没有足够的情感能力去意识到或表达出来呢？你知道吗？我觉得我们生活在一个信息爆炸的时代，有太多故事、太多内容。前几天我和朋友聊到这个，你读到这些故事，突然某个孩子做出极端行为，而父母却说‘我们完全没料到’。

My worry slash Daisy is that what if this quiet is pathologic? What if this is his depression? What if his quiet isn't normal and he doesn't have the emotional wherewithal to know or to be able to express that. You know? And I think we're in an age where there's just so much information, so many stories, and so many so much everything that I was talking to a friend about this the other day and you read these stories and like, all of a sudden, this kid does something and the parents are like, we had no idea.

说到底，我认为这种情况会发生吗？大概率不会。因为我和他谈过。你想找人聊聊吗？除了我们之外，你想和其他人谈谈吗？

At the end of the day, do I think that's gonna happen? Probably not. But because he and I've talked to him. Do you wanna talk with someone? Do you wanna talk with someone besides us?

想和心理医生聊聊吗？他看我的眼神像在看疯子。‘我能和那个人聊什么？’这个想法对他来说很可怕，毕竟他本来就很注重隐私。‘我连和你都不愿聊这些，为什么要找别人谈？’

Do wanna talk to a therapist? He looks at me like I'm crazy. Like, what would I talk to that person about? I think the idea is horrifying to him because he's private anyway. And so why would I talk to someone else about this when I don't even really wanna talk to you about this stuff?

听着，我理解这种担忧。是的，所有数据和媒体报道都很可怕，你会担心很正常。我认为这就是养育青春期孩子的微妙之处——如果特别担心某种后果，该如何双管齐下？一方面可以自问：

And look, I get that concern. And, yes, all of the data out there and stuff in the media, it is scary. It makes sense that you'd be worried about that. And I think this is the dance of being a parent of a tween or a teen, where if I'm really worried about a certain outcome, how can I almost parallel path things? On one level, can I say, okay?

我需要留意什么？有哪些征兆？什么情况会让我警觉？另一方面，有时恐惧会扭曲我们的判断，反而阻碍我们与孩子建立本就不多的联系。所以我希望能保护你避免这种情况。

What am I looking out for? What signs are there? What would make me concerned? On the other hand, I think sometimes our fears can even color what we see and get in our way of actually connecting with our kid in the limited ways they still allow us to connect with them. And so I feel protective of you of not kind of letting that happen.

我们可以做些具体措施。首先作为心理学家，如果我听说他对许多事物都失去兴趣，我不会说‘天啊！今天就带他来诊所’，而是会说‘嗯，这值得关注’

And I think there's some concrete things we can do around this. So number one, as a psychologist, if I was hearing that he had much lower interest in doing a whole host of things, that would be something I wouldn't say, oh my goodness. Get him in my office today. But I would say, okay. That's interesting.

比如，你知道的，我们需要探究一下。对吧？这个曾经班级名列前茅、勤奋学习的孩子，现在突然对什么都不在乎了。

Okay. Like, you know, let's poke around there. Right? Okay. This is a kid who used to perform at the top of their class and study all the time, and now they don't care.

哦，这可是个大变化。这个孩子过去喜欢和朋友玩耍，现在却不愿意了。以前会练习并参加足球活动，现在却不想留在队里了。这种巨大转变在我看来很值得注意。尤其是你那种高度警觉的部分，那种像雏菊般敏感的部分。

Oh, that's a big change. This is a kid who used to love playing with their friends and now doesn't want to. This is a kid who used to practice and go to soccer, and now they don't wanna be on the team anymore. That big shift would be notable to me. And that is something, I think, especially that hypervigilant part of you, that daisy part of you.

我会觉得，好吧，这确实需要留意。是否存在重大变化？如果我同时发现他这个年龄段本该完成的各项发展任务，他都不愿参与。六年级正是孩子们开始转换社交圈层、对交友产生兴趣的阶段。

I'd be like, okay. That's something to look out for. Are there big changes? If I also see that kind of the developmental tasks of the age he's in across the board are not ones he wants to participate in. So sixth grade is a time when kids are kind of shifting social groups and they kind of are interested in friends.

好吧。看起来这似乎不是什么大问题。六年级是孩子们培养学习习惯的时期——虽然大多数六年级学生还没掌握独立学习的技巧。但问题在于，他是否也处于这种混乱中？

Okay. It doesn't seem like that's a big thing. Sixth grade is a time when kids are figuring out their study habits. Most sixth graders are not mastering study habits and independence. But, again, is he in that mess?

关于六年级和初中阶段，我想补充的是，这个时期孩子们正在努力厘清与父母的关系。从你描述的情况来看，杰克实际上完美适应了六年级——他确实做到了所有方面。这并不是要否定你的感受和担忧，这些都很重要。

The other thing I would say about sixth grade and middle school is it is a time when kids are very much trying to figure out their relationship with their parents. And across the board, it actually sounds to me from what you're sharing that Jack is kind of crushing the sixth grade year. Like, he's actually doing all of that. And that is not to invalidate the way you feel and your worries. All of this is true.

但我希望你能听到我的观点，因为这至少能强化第二种可能性叙事，让第一种看起来不那么绝对。我建议你可以给这种状态设个期限。当我被焦虑恐惧的叙事笼罩时，设定时间线很有帮助。比如虚构一个截止日——

But I want you to hear that from me because at least it might strengthen a second narrative so that that first one doesn't seem so convincing. I also think you can put a little of a timeline to this. I know when I'm in a period of feeling like an anxiety fear narrative, it's kind of taken over me. It's helpful to put a timeline. So I might say make this up.

在5月15日，我会真正做出决定。到那天我会说：'知道吗？我确实想一起去看心理医生，我们需要好好谈谈。这不是可选项。'

On May 15, I'm gonna really make some decisions about this. On May 15, I'm gonna really say, you know what? I do wanna see a therapist together. Let's talk some things out. It's not really a choice.

'你不是惹麻烦了，但我不打算征求你同意。我们要共同面对这个问题。'这个决定可以留到5月15日。或者在那天和学校主任进行更深入的谈话。也许我会提前到4月1日行动。

You're not in trouble, but I'm not gonna ask you. Let's go through this together. I could always do that on May 15. On May 15, I'm going to have an even more in-depth conversation with the dean at school or you know? And I just or maybe I do that on April 1.

比如，我喜欢记下日期，因为当我焦虑时——我能从你身上看到这种情绪，珍妮弗，你太在乎了——我们会担心自己做得不够。是不是漏掉了什么？是不是该做的事没做？所以当你提醒自己这部分时，嘿。

Like, I I like to put dates because then when I'm worried I think part of what happens when we're worried, and I can see it in you, Jennifer, you care so much. We worry we're not doing enough. Like, am I missing something? Am I not doing something I should be doing? And so when you remind that part of you, hey.

我已经记下这些日期了。它们都已在日历上标注好。这能说服自己你没有遗漏什么。另外我想说的是，我们可以一起想想办法，让你和杰克建立联系，或者让你感觉与他更亲近——你说得对，这些方式不会像处理他在学校遇到困难时那样。他可能永远都不是，或者现在不是那种会冲进房间说'妈妈，我有事要告诉你'的孩子。

I already have these dates. Like, I've already calendared them in. Like, it convinces yourself that you're not missing something. And then the other thing I'd say is I'd love to come up with some ways where we think about how you and Jack can connect or you can feel connected to him that, you're right, are not gonna look like processing your the difficult moment he had at school. And he just might not be the kid ever or right now who's the run into your room and says, mom, I have to tell you about this thing.

有些孩子确实会那样做。但他可能不是那样的孩子。我想让你知道，这并不能说明他真的很困扰，或者你做得不够好。真的不能。对吧？

There are some kids who do that. He might not be that kid. And I want you to know that still does not tell me that he's really struggling or that you're not doing a good job. It really doesn't. Right?

我认为这反映了他的性格特点，他处理事情的方式，而且他现在应对事情的方式可能和四年后完全不同。所以跟我聊聊电子游戏吧，这似乎是个话题。他很感兴趣。你和他一起玩过吗？他会谈论这个吗？

I think it speaks to his temperament, the way he processes things, and also the way he handles things today might not be how he handles things in four years. So talk to me about video games because it seems like that's come up. He's interested in it. Is that something that you ever play with him? Is that something he'll talk about?

多告诉我些关于那个世界的事，因为他似乎对此很感兴趣。

Tell me more about that world because he seems to be interested in that.

几个月前他曾让我陪他玩一次。现在回想起来我觉得当时错了。我说'好啊，我会的'，但那天没兑现。后来我再邀请他时，他会说'哦，改天吧'。感觉我错过了那个机会，不过或许还能挽回。

He asked me once to play with him a couple months ago. And now I look back and I think that was a mistake. I said like, oh, I I will, and then I didn't that day. And now since I've asked him to play, and he'll say like, oh, yeah, later. So I feel like I lost my moment, but we could potentially get it back.

他玩的是什么游戏？

What what is it that he plays?

他玩《堡垒之夜》。所有六年级男生都玩《堡垒之夜》。

He plays Fortnite. All the sixth grade boys play Fortnite.

完全同意。这里不是评判区。我知道这是六年级男生生活中非常重要的一部分。如果他在阁楼发现你独自在玩会怎样？

Totally. This is not no judgment zone. I know it's a huge huge huge part of of sixth grade boy life. What would it be like if he found you in the attic playing? By myself?

对，就你自己玩。你搞定了自己的账号登录。别别搞砸他的战绩。我不是这个意思。但你觉得会怎样？

Like, on your own yeah. You figured out how to get your own login. Don't don't mess up his score. I'm not saying that. But what do you think?

不知道为什么我脑海里浮现——你提到过你有丈夫。不知怎么的，我想象杰克进来发现你不在，可能还会发生些状况。比如‘我们要吃晚饭了’，‘哦现在还不行’之类的。

I don't know why I'm picturing you you mentioned you have a husband. I don't know why. I'm picturing Jack coming in and you're not being there, and probably something comes up. We're gonna have dinner. Oh, we can't have dinner yet.

比如‘妈妈在阁楼上’。我觉得他可能会一脸懵，然后强装镇定说‘哦好吧’之类的话。

Like, mom's upstairs in the attic. And I don't know. I feel like he'd be like, what? And and he'd be like, oh, yeah. Like, he'd have to play it really cool.

像是‘她在玩《堡垒之夜》呢，还需要再玩几分钟’。所以你觉得他会怎么做？

Like, yeah, she's she's playing Fortnite. Like, she's gonna need she's gonna need a couple more minutes. So what what would he do?

我觉得他会觉得特别搞笑，而且很可能会教我玩。

I think he would think that was hilarious, and he'd probably show me how to play.

你觉得他会主动来找你吗？他可能会说，天哪，我得亲眼看看这个，或者他大概会上楼来？

What do you you think he'd come find you? He'd be like, oh my god. I gotta see this, or he'd probably come upstairs?

噢，当然。毫无疑问。而且他会

Oh, yes. Definitely. And he'd

说，妈，你太差劲了。像是，我必须给你看这个东西。

be like, mom, you're so horrible. Like, I gotta show you this thing.

对，对。我是说，就像你说的，最近有一次我在车里想找话题和他聊，不想让对话变得太

Yes. Yes. I mean, to your point, one time recently when I was trying to think of what to talk with him in the car about that wouldn't be so

针锋相对。完全同意。避免太过分导致他闭口不谈。是的。

confrontational. Totally. To egregious to shutting him down. Yeah.

没错。正是这样。我就想，不如问他《堡垒之夜》有什么新内容。比如，有哪些新东西？

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I thought like, let me ask him what's new in Fortnite. Like, what are the new things?

像是最近有什么动态？谁现在玩得最厉害？哪些人登顶排行榜之类的？他滔滔不绝地讲了差不多二十分钟。

Like, what's happening? Who's playing the best these days? Who's who's at the top ranks, whatnot? He talked for, like, twenty minutes nonstop.

好吧，对我来说就是这样。这就是他的世界的一部分。我很高兴你已经如此直觉地理解了这一点。

Okay. So this to me, it is it. This is it. This is a part of his world. And I love that you're already so intuitive to know.

就像，是的，我不能直接问他，告诉我你所有的感受。告诉我你怎么样？他会说，嗯，妈妈。这不是我生活的世界。但他确实生活在一个愿意与你分享某些事物的世界里。

Like, yeah, I can't ask him, like, tell me about all the feelings you're having. Tell me how you're you know? Like, he'd be like, yeah, mom. This is, like, so not that's not the world I live in. But he does live in a world that has things that he will share with you.

首先，从《堡垒之夜》这个话题开始连接。我认为你应该读一些关于《堡垒之夜》的博客。我恰好知道新关卡即将推出。所以，你应该保持更新。这大概是他回家时会聊的。

First of all, just connecting about the Fortnite world. And I do think, like, you should probably be reading blogs about Fortnite. I happen to know that a new level is coming. So, like, you should be up to date. And, like, that is probably when he comes home.

比如，我听说有新关卡要来了。或者，Jennifer，这就是我对《堡垒之夜》的全部了解了。但如果你浏览一些博客，读些相关内容，可能会提出让他惊讶的问题——他可能会想，不敢相信妈妈会问这个——因为这就是他的语言。我希望你从这个角度思考。那是他的语言。

Like, I heard there's this new level coming. Or, you know, I probably just said to you, Jennifer, the extent of my Fortnite knowledge. But, like, I'm guessing if you looked on some blogs and read the things, like, you probably would have questions that he'd be like, I can't believe my mom's asking me that question because that is his language. I want you to think about it that way. That's his language.

所以当你继续用英语和他交流，而他现在某种程度上在用《堡垒之夜》的语言说话时，他无法用英语回应太多。他只会说，嗯，我过得不错。好吧。但他对英语并不那么感兴趣。

So when you continue to speak to him in English and he is now kind of speaking Fortnite, he can't say much back to you in English. He says, yeah. My day is good. Okay. But he's not that interested in English.

英语并不是他沉浸的语言，但他非常愿意与你互动。我认为有两件事：第一，讨论《堡垒之夜》本身就是一种连接方式。这让他知道妈妈理解我，妈妈对我感兴趣。

It's not really the language he's as much in, but he is amazingly very willing to engage with you. And I think there's two things. Number one, just engaging about Fortnite is a form of connection. And it lets him know my mom understands me. My mom is interested in me.

妈妈看到我在做自己的事情，她愿意调整自己来接近我的世界。他永远不会说出口。说清楚点，他不会为此感谢你。但我向你保证，他能感受到。

My mom is seeing me kind of do my own thing, and she wants to flex and meet me there. He's never gonna say that. Let me be clear. He will not gratify that. But I promise you, he feels that.

关于我大儿子的第二点认知是，如果我开始谈论他真正感兴趣的话题时——虽然这并非总是有效，我也不会刻意强求以免适得其反——但平均每若干次尝试中，若能在某个话题上建立五到十分钟的连接，我就会顺势延伸话题。比如顺便提一句：我听说你提到数学考试的事？或者换个话题：对了，你和泰勒相处得怎么样？我注意到最近家里很少见到他了。

The second thing I know with my older son is if I start talking to him about something he's really interested in and this isn't always true, and I won't always try for it because I can't ruin it. One out of every however many times, if after five to ten minutes of connecting about that topic, I kind of extend it. By the way, I heard you mention something about your math test or something different. By the way, how are things going with Tyler? I know you haven't I haven't really seen him around the house as much anymore.

神奇的是，这时他居然会回答这个问题。但如果我一开始就直接问这个问题，那就完全没戏了。当然，我并不认为每次都要从孩子感兴趣的话题延伸开去，否则他们会察觉套路。但我预感，如果你开始运用这种方式，你会获得与以往截然不同的信息反馈。

Like, it's amazing how he'll actually answer that question. But if I started with that question, forget it. Now I don't think every time we start about the topic our kids wanna talk about, we should extend it. They'll start to pick up on it. But I have a feeling if you start leaning into this, you're going to start to get very different data to your body.

因为你通常收集到的信息——黛西大概也深有体会——总是显示他不感兴趣、态度疏离、沉默寡言，像是变了个人，非常封闭自我。

Because I think the data that you generally collect, that Daisy kind of collects is he's uninterested. He's distant. He doesn't say anything. He's a different kid. He's very withdrawn.

于是所有证据都似乎在佐证：他的状态糟糕透顶。但当你通过共同体验他热衷的事物来获取信息时，你的认知系统将开始收集到全新的数据。我认为这对你处理'观察与担忧'的矛盾会大有裨益。

And then it's like, look. All the data supports. He's in a horrible place. But I think your body will start to collect data just from experiencing with him the things that he is excited about. And I think that will be really helpful as you try to manage this combination of noticing and fear.

这就是你的突破口。不必把事情复杂化，我们只能循序渐进。虽然这已是重大进展——这些就是我会询问他的话题方向。

I think that's your way in. And I wouldn't make it much more complicated than that. I think we can only take one step at a time. I think it's a huge step. Those are the things I'd ask him about.

我建议你做足功课。真的。去阅读那些游戏博客，要是他偶然发现你刷着Ins看攻略的样子，估计会大吃一惊：哇...

I would do your diligence. I really would. I'd be reading those blogs. It would be probably pretty funny if he saw you on your own Instagram. He's like, wow.

'你居然关注了这个《堡垒之夜》主播？'这时你可以说：'知道吗？这挺有意思的，完全是个新天地。'我敢打赌，如果你真的尝试玩游戏——用我们之前讨论过的方式参与——这可能会给他带来巨大的认知冲击。

You follow this Fortnite person? And you're like, you know what? It's interesting. It's a whole world. And then I bet if you played, and you could do the playing we kind of went through because I think it would be kind of such a shock to his system.

对吧？那样总是挺有趣的。不过我打赌如果你对他说，听着，你经常玩《堡垒之夜》，那游戏看起来挺刺激的。你能教我怎么玩吗？

Right? And that's always kind of fun. But I bet also if you said to him, look. Like, you play a lot of Fortnite, and that seems to be exciting. Like, can you teach me how to play?

可能比一起玩更有效，对青春期前的男孩来说，一起玩可能会让他觉得，呃，真烦人。但如果你说，能教教我吗？比如前几天我试着玩了一下，连哪个按键对应什么功能都搞不清楚。

Maybe even more than playing together, which to a tween boy can feel like, ugh. It's annoying. Like, can you teach me? Like, I tried to play around with it the other day. I didn't even know which button meant which.

我们可以这样试试吗？我猜在那五分钟里，他教你的时候会特别兴奋。你可能会觉得，哎，我这儿还有点孩子气。虽然这和他跑过来说'妈妈我能和你聊聊某件事'不太一样。

Like, can we do that? And my guess is for those five minutes, he'd be excited teaching you. You would be like, ugh. I have a little bit of my kid here. And it's not the same as him running and saying, mom, can I talk to you about x y z?

但我觉得你慢慢会感受到那种相似的情感联结，因为你会觉得你们俩又重新在同一个世界里共度时光了。

But I think that you'll start to feel like the feeling can actually be similar because you just feel like the two of you are spending time in the same world again.

没错，完全有道理。我可以试试这个方法。

Right. No. That makes complete sense. I can do that.

我相信你能做到。我会想知道进展如何的。这几步确实是很好的开始。我肯定会留意黛西的动向，预判她什么时候会出现，这样反而会变得有点幽默感，对吧？

I think you can. And I will wanna know how it goes. And so I think that's like a really good couple steps forward. I would definitely watch out for Daisy and start to predict when she's gonna come up because then it becomes a little humorous. Right?

比如说他确实四点回家。现在是三点半，如果是我会在手机上设个闹钟，做好准备——她快来了。

So let's say he does come home at four. It's 03:30. I'd set an alarm if it was me on my phone. And, just get ready. She's gonna come.

然后当你想着‘他没事吧？’而他只是回了自己房间，你会觉得‘天哪’。因为你们之间建立了关系，事情就变得轻松了些，我觉得这部分也会很有帮助。

And then when you're like, oh, is he okay? And he just went to his room, you'd like, oh my goodness. Like, it becomes a little lighter just because you've developed a relationship with it, and I think that part's also really gonna help.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

谢谢，真的谢谢。我想让你知道，在这件事上你绝不是一个人，你真的不孤单。谢谢你。

Thank you. Thank you. And really, I want you to know, you are so not alone in this. You are really not alone. And thank you.

我是说，你如此坦诚地帮助这么多父母明白他们并不孤单。

I mean, this for helping so many parents know that they're not alone by your willingness to be so open.

感谢我们的播客赞助商Airbnb和Garanimals。感谢收听。要分享故事或向我提问，请访问goodinside.com/podcast，或发邮件至podcast@goodinside.com。育儿是世界上最艰难也是最重要的工作，你值得拥有资源和支持，让你在这份重要职责中感到充满力量与信心。我非常激动地向大家介绍Good Inside会员计划。

Thank you to our podcast sponsors, Airbnb and Garanimals. Thank you for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com/podcast, or you could write me at podcast@goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and you deserve resources and support so you feel empowered and confident for this very important job you hold. I'm so excited to share Good Inside membership.

这是首个将可信内容和专家与全球志同道合的家长社区结合的平台。它颠覆传统，专为忙碌父母设计，让他们能充分利用有限的碎片时间。Good Inside with Doctor Becky由Jesse Baker和Eric Newsom在Magnificent Noise制作，制作团队成员包括Sabrina Farhi、Julia Knapp和Kristen Muller。

It's the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's game changing and built for a busy parent who wants to make the most out of the few minutes they have. Good Inside with Doctor. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Knapp, and Kristen Muller.

我还要感谢Erica Belsky、Mary Panico、Brooke Zant以及Good Inside团队的其他成员。最后，在结束前让我们把手放在心口提醒自己：即使我正经历挣扎，即使外表看来处境艰难，我的内心依然美好。

I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Brooke Zant, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.