98. 纳瓦尔·拉维坎特——关于幸福与财富的洞见与启示

宁静是静止的幸福，幸福是流动的宁静。——纳瓦尔·拉维坎特。生活中没有什么是值得的，除非你愿意冒险。在第83集中，我们深入探讨了古罗马哲学家、斯多葛学派学者塞涅卡的言论与智慧，他提供了许多关于生活艺术、如何更快乐以及总体上如何成为更好的人的睿智见解。今天，我们将对创始人、投资人和企业家纳瓦尔·拉维坎特做同样的事情，他在过去几十年里创立了多家成功企业，并在早期投资了诸如Twitter、Uber和Postmates等公司。

Peace is happiness at rest, and happiness is peace in motion. Naval Ravikant. Nothing in life is worthwhile unless you take risks. Back in episode 83, we dove into the words and wisdom of Roman philosopher and Stoic Seneca, who offered a lot of wise words on the art of living, how to be happier, just how to be a better person in general. Today, we're going to do the same thing with founder, investor, and entrepreneur Naval Ravikat, who has created multiple successful companies over the past few decades and has been a big investor in the early years of companies like Twitter, Uber, and Postmates, just to name a few.

他是一个在生活诸多方面都颇有心得的人，不仅限于商业和金钱领域，还包括如何活得更好、更快乐、珍视什么、如何安排时间、如何获得幸福、赚钱之道以及如何在生活中找到宁静与自由。他绝非万事皆通，他自己也会这么说，但他是一个赚取了数亿美元，同时在此过程中保持快乐、理智和平静的人，这是一种非常罕见且令人钦佩的组合。我认为，尽管社会对金钱和财富赞誉有加，但很多时候，那些拥有最多金钱和财富的人往往是生活中最不幸的。当有人将赚大钱的罕见能力与内心的平静和幸福结合起来时，研究他们的思维、生活方式和行为是理所当然的。今天的一切都将围绕纳瓦尔本人的言论、信念和思想展开，我们基本上会将其分为两大主题。

And he's someone who has figured a lot of things out about life, not just in the business and money world, but just how to live better as well, how to be happier, the things to value, how to spend your time, how to be happy, the ways to make money, how to find peace and freedom in life. And by no means does he have everything figured out, and he would say the same thing, but he's someone who has made hundreds of millions of dollars, and he's remained happy, sane, and peace in the process, which is a very rare and impressive combination. I think for as much as we praise money and wealth in society, a lot of times it's those who have the most money and wealth that are often the most miserable in life. When someone combines the rare ability to make a lot of money with a certain peace of mind and happiness, it's only right to study how they think, live, and act. Everything today is going to be the words, beliefs, and thoughts of Naval himself, and we're going to break it basically into two main categories.

第一部分将围绕幸福这一理念展开。我们如何能更快乐、生活得更愉悦宁静，并享受我们在地球上的宝贵时光？第二部分将深入探讨财富，包括赚钱的关键、你需要的必备技能、判断力和特定知识的重要性等。那么，首先让我们谈谈幸福，这似乎是几乎所有人在生活中都渴望的，或者至少希望在这方面做得更好。我想用纳瓦尔的两句话作为开场。

The first is going to be on this idea of happiness. How can we be happier, live with more joy and peace, and enjoy our precious time we have on this Earth? And the second half is going to dive into wealth, the keys to making money, important skills you need, the importance of judgment and specific knowledge, and more. So, first, let's talk about happiness, which seems to be the thing that almost all individuals in life want, or at least are looking to get better at. And there are two quotes from Naval that I want to start this off with.

首先，他说：人生三大事是财富、健康和幸福。我们按此顺序追求它们，但它们的重要性却是相反的。我们常常追求事物，尤其是物质财富或金钱，以为它们会让我们快乐，结果却发现它们原本就不是让你快乐的东西。我们常常把一切置于幸福之前，以为它们是通往幸福的途径，但它们很少是。关键在于，正如纳瓦尔所说，要把幸福作为你生活中的首要追求、首要目标，然后其他一切自然会随之而来。

First, he says: The three big things in life are wealth, health, and happiness. We pursue them in that order, but their importance is reversed. So often we pursue things, we try to obtain things, especially material things like wealth or money, so that it will make us happy, only to realize it wasn't the thing that made you happy in the first place. And we often put everything before happiness thinking they are the way to happiness, but they rarely ever are. And the key, as Naval said, is to make happiness the number one pursuit in your life, the number one goal, and then naturally everything else will follow.

美妙之处在于，幸福正如纳瓦尔所言，是一种技能。快乐最重要的诀窍是意识到幸福是一种你可以培养的技能，也是一种你做出的选择。你选择快乐，然后为之努力。如果幸福是一种技能，就像写作、沟通、编程或唱歌一样，那么它是你可以提升的东西，我认为这是生活中一种美丽的解放。很多人陷入的误区是认为幸福是事物的副产品。

And the beautiful thing is happiness, as Naval says, is a skill. The most important trick to being happy is to realize happiness is a skill you develop and a choice you make. You choose to be happy, and then you work at it. And if happiness is a skill, just like writing is a skill or communicating is a skill or coding or singing, then it's something that you can improve, which I think is a beautiful liberation in life. I think a lot people fall into the trap of thinking happiness is a byproduct of things.

幸福是你只能从其他事物中获得的东西，但事实恰恰相反。幸福本身就是产物，而其他事物才是副产品。那么问题就变成了：我们如何培养幸福的技能？纳瓦尔多次谈到欲望的概念，以及欲望（或至少过度的欲望）是许多痛苦、不幸和生活中不快乐的根源。他说，幸福是在你感觉生活中不再缺少什么时出现的。

It's something you only get out of from other things, but it's just the opposite. It's the product itself, and the other things are the byproduct. So the question then becomes, how do we develop the skill of happiness? Naval talks a lot about this idea of desires and how desires, or at least an excess amount of desire, is the root of a lot of suffering and misery and unhappiness in life. He says, Happiness is there when you remove the sense of something missing in your life.

我们是高度评判性的生存和复制机器。我们不断谈论思考，或不断四处想着‘我需要这个’或‘我需要那个’，陷入欲望的网中。幸福是当什么都不缺时的状态。当什么都不缺时，他说，你的大脑会停止运转，不再沉湎于过去或未来去后悔某事或计划某事。在那片刻的空白中，你获得了内心的宁静。

We are highly judgmental survival and replication machines. We constantly talk about thinking, or we constantly walk around thinking, I need this or I need that, trapped in the web of desires. Happiness is the state when nothing is missing. When nothing is missing, he says, your mind shuts down and stops running into the past or future to regret something or to plan something. In that absence for a moment, you have internal silence.

当你内心宁静时，你就会感到满足和快乐。欲望的问题在于，当你总是处于欲望模式时，意味着你现在拥有的永远不够。这意味着你当前的处境、周围的人或拥有的东西，如果有了别的什么可能会更好。如果你总是抱着‘需要添加什么才能让现状更好’的心态，你将永远无法享受你所拥有的。最终，你将永远无法享受当下，而当下才是你生命中唯一真正拥有的东西。

When you have internal silence, then you are content and you are happy. The problem with desire and when you're always in the desire mode is it means that whatever you have right now is never enough. It means that the situation you're in, or the people you're around, or the things you have could be better with something else. And if you're always in that frame of mind that something needs to be added to this situation to make it better, you'll never enjoy what you have. And ultimately, you'll never enjoy the present moment, which is the only thing you actually ever do have in life.

纳瓦尔认为，活在当下的唯一方法是放下欲望，因为欲望的行为会将你的注意力（或至少迫使你）集中在过去或未来，而非此时此刻。他本人说，关键在于无欲，尤其是对外在事物的无欲。我的欲望越少，就越能接受事物的现状，我的思维就越少活动，因为思维实际上存在于朝向未来或过去的运动中。他还说了另一件非常有趣的事：欲望是你与自己签订的一份契约，承诺在得到想要的东西之前保持不快乐。

Nivolt argues that the only way to be present is to let go of desires, because the act of desiring is what focuses or at least forces you and puts you into the past or future and out of this very moment. He said himself, It's about the absence of desire, especially the absence of desire for external things. The fewer desires I can have, the more I can accept the current state of things, the less my mind is moving because the mind really exists in motion toward the future or the past. And he says something else that is really interesting. Desire is a contract you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want.

我想再重复一遍：欲望是你与自己签订的一份契约，承诺在得到想要的东西之前保持不快乐。问题往往在于，即使你得到了所渴望的东西——无论是金钱、某种物质、认可还是赞赏——你在得到它之后仍会继续渴望更多。于是你变成了一台永不停歇的欲望机器，正如我们所说，这意味着你永远不满足，基本上永远无法享受你真正拥有的东西。如果你无法对你所拥有的感到平静，就很难享受生活并对现状感到快乐，而这正是所有幸福的根源。

I want to say that again. Desire is a contract you make with yourself to be unhappy until you get what you want. And often, the problem is even if you get what you desire whether it's money, whether it's some material thing maybe recognition or appraisal you'll continue to desire something more after you get it. So you become a constant desiring machine, which, as we talked about, means you never have enough and basically never enjoy what you actually have. And if you can't be at peace with what you have, it's tough to enjoy life and be happy with where you're at, which is the root of all happiness.

或许可以说，欲望正是推动我们作为个体、社会乃至整体前进的动力。纳瓦尔无疑会赞同这一点。但他认为这主要关乎对外在事物的渴望——金钱、地位、物质财富等。这些才是危险的根源，是大多数不幸与痛苦的来源。而判断某物是否值得渴望，本身就是个很好的试金石。

One could probably argue that desire is the very thing that moves us forward as individuals, as a society, and as a whole. Naval, without a doubt, would agree with that. But Naval is arguing that this is mostly about the desire for external things money, status, material things as a whole. Those are the things that are dangerous and the root of most unhappiness and suffering. And it is a good test to know if something is worth desiring in your life.

他说：'每当你察觉自己在渴望某物时，问问自己：这对我重要到若不能如愿就会不快乐吗？'你会发现绝大多数情况下答案是否定的。读到此处时，我设计了自己的小测试——关于欲望的简易框架：只需问'如果得不到它，一年后这事还重要吗？'纳瓦尔本人就是践行此道的绝佳范例。

He says, Every time you catch yourself desiring something, say, 'Is it so important to me that I'll be unhappy unless this goes my way?' You're going to find, with the vast majority of things, it's just not true. When I read this, I kind of created my own little test, my own little framework about desires. It's a simple question you can ask yourself, and it's this: If I don't get this, will this matter in a year? I don't get this, will this matter in a year? I think Naval is a great example around this idea.

他举例道：'我们买了新车，现在天天泡论坛等交付。可这不过是件愚蠢的物件。'

He says, We bought a new car. Now I'm waiting for the new car to arrive. Of course, every night I'm on the forums reading about the car. Why? It's a silly object.

这辆可笑的车根本不会改变我的生活。我知道一旦到手就会立刻失去兴趣。问题在于我沉迷的是'渴望'本身——幻想这个外在物能带来快乐，这完全是妄念。

It's a silly car. It's not going to change my life much or at all. I know the instant the car arrives, I won't care about it anymore. The thing is, I'm addicted to the desiring. I'm addicted to the idea of this external thing bringing me some kind of happiness and joy, and this is completely delusional.

人生关键能力在于分辨'期待欲望'与'欲望实效'的区别。多数情况下，兴奋感只存在于获得前的渴望中。能判断某物带来的快乐能否持续一年而非转瞬即逝，这种能力至关重要。这让我联想到帕累托法则——欲望也应遵循二八定律：20%的欲望带来80%的幸福，其余80%只产生20%效益。

A key skill in life to develop that I think will be a key to your happiness is understanding the difference between the anticipation of desires versus the impact of desires. With most of the things we desire, the excitement is in the wanting of it, in the moments before we get it. But once we get it, the excitement with time often leaves. Being able to understand whether something is going to give you joy, not just today, but also a year from now, is a really important skill to have and a key skill that'll help you desire the things that are only essential in life. When I was reading about Naval and his thoughts on desire, it made me think a lot about Pareto's Law and this idea that desires should follow Pareto's Law as well, which basically states 20% of the actions you have lead to 80% of the results, and 80% of the actions lead to 20% of the results.

因此应将欲望限定在少数真正带来快乐的事物上，其余皆可舍弃。虽然寻找这些事物很难，但一旦找到，就要将欲望集中于此。当欲望四处蔓延时，痛苦便随之而来；当聚焦于一两件能带来终生平静与满足的事物时，才是真正的圆满。

So your desires should be limited to the few things that bring the most happiness, and you should basically just disregard the rest. Finding those things is very hard, but once you do, limit your desires to those few things that bring you the most happiness. Now, what those things are will depend entirely on you, like what actually matters to you. But when your desires are all over the place, when you want this, when you want that, and on and on and on, That's suffering happens. But when you limit them to one or two things that actually matter, desires that bring lifelong peace and satisfaction, that is everything.

这正是纳瓦尔的主张：不必彻底消除欲望（这几乎不可能），但要将其控制在一两件事物上。他说：'别贪多，每个阶段只选定一个核心欲望来赋予人生目标与动力。'

And this is really what Nivolt advocates for. Not that you shouldn't just get rid of your desires completely, and one, it's almost impossible to do that, but you should limit them to one thing. Maybe two things at the most. He says, So don't pick too many of them. Pick one big desire in your life at any given time to give yourself purpose and motivation.

驾驭欲望的诀窍在于：限制所求、明确正当所求、同时只专注一两件事物全力追逐。悖论在于：欲望提供动力，但若失衡地聚焦错误或过多事物，就会导致痛苦。正如纳瓦尔所言：幸福源于对既有之物的满足。若总想着未得之物，就永远无法享受当下。

The skill around desire becomes limiting what you want, knowing the right thing to want, and then only wanting one or two things at a time, and then going after it with full force. Think the paradox is desire provides motivation, but if that desire is out of balance and focused on the wrong things or too many things, that's when it leads to suffering. Because as Naval said, happiness is being satisfied with what you have. If all you're thinking about is what you want and don't have and all these desires, you'll never be happy with what you have, and you can never be happy with what you have. Or if you are never happy with what you have, you'll never be happy in general.

关于欲望的最后思考：我们多数欲望其实并非本心，而是被世界灌输的。由于社会力量的强大，若不持续追问'我为何追求这个？'，终将发现自己耗尽光阴追逐的竟是他人设定的目标。

Now, the last thing I want to mention on this idea of desires is something I was thinking about when making this episode, It's this idea that most of our desires actually aren't our own desires, just the world brainwashing us into thinking we should desire them. And then we convince ourselves that they actually are our own desires. And we fall into this trap too much of letting the world think for us and shaping what we believe, value, and ultimately desire. Because of how powerful society is and outside forces are, if you don't religiously and relentlessly ask yourself this question, Why am I after what I'm after? You'll be chasing desires that aren't yours.

只有达成欲望后回望，才会惊觉自己追错了方向。必须不断自问：'我为何追求这个？'若答案含糊或仅是'因为别人都这样'，那很可能你正追求错误的事物。纳瓦尔还大力倡导'接纳'与'中立'——这两个相辅相成的概念。

You'll only realize it after you get the desire to only look back, realizing you spent all this time chasing the wrong thing. Something really, really important to ask yourself constantly, and I try to ask myself all the time, Why am I after what I'm after? Why am I after what I'm after? If you can't answer that question with clarity or without saying because someone else said so or the world said so, you're probably desiring the wrong things. Something else Naval is a big advocate for is this idea of acceptance and neutrality two things that are different but also go right in line with one another.

所以他表示，真正的幸福是内心平静的副产品。大部分幸福感将源于接纳，而非改变外部环境。尤瓦尔多次谈到，几乎在任何情况下，你都有三种选择。他说，你有三种选择：改变它、接受它，或者离开它。

So he says real happiness comes as a side effect of peace. Most of it is going to come from acceptance, not from changing your external environment. And Yuval talks a lot about in almost every situation, you have three choices. He says, You have three choices. You can change it, you can accept it, or you can leave it.

如果你想改变它，那是一种欲望。而对大多数事情来说，目标仅仅是接受它，因为生活中几乎90%、95%，甚至可以说99%发生在你身上的事情都超出你的掌控。这与我们在第93期讨论的斯多葛美德及控制二分法理念完全一致——只控制你能控制的，放下其余。多数事物都不由你掌控。若能培养接纳事物本原的能力，就能避免催生改变它的欲望，而这种欲望正是痛苦与不幸的根源。

If you want to change it, then it's a desire. And for most things, the goal is simply to accept it, because almost with everything in life, would say 90% of things, 95%, you could probably argue 99 of things, that happen to you are out of your control. It's right in line with the idea that we talked about in episode 93 on the Stoic virtues and this idea of the dichotomy of control, to control just the things that you can control and let go of everything else. Most things are outside of your control. If you cultivate the ability to accept things as they are, you avoid creating a desire to change it, and that desire creates suffering and unhappiness.

埃瓦尔亲口说过，我脑海里对自己重复最多的话就一个字：接受、接受、接受。你要接受一切——好的、坏的、艰难的。显然这极其困难。但接纳往往是通往平静的最快路径，因为这是允许事物保持本原的选择。如此你才能聚焦于当下拥有和能做的事。

And Eval said himself, the phrase I probably use the most to myself in my head is just one word: accept, accept, accept. You want to accept everything the good, the bad, the hard. Obviously, that's a very, very difficult thing to do. But acceptance is often the quickest path to peace, because it's a choice to let things be what they are. By letting them be what they are, you could focus on what you have and what you can do, which is the present moment at hand.

就连想要改变所有外部问题的念头都近乎愚蠢，因为问题是永恒的。纳瓦尔说得很透彻：当今人们认为解决所有外部问题就能获得平静，但外部问题是无限的。真正获得内心平静的唯一方式，是彻底放弃'问题'这个概念本身。

Even the idea of wanting to change everything, change all your external problems, is almost a foolish idea because they're everlasting. They never end. Naval said it really well. Today, the way we think to get peace is by resolving all your external problems, but there are unlimited external problems. The only way to actually get peace on the inside is by giving up this idea of problems in general.

与接纳理念一脉相承的是斯多葛学派常说的'中立与漠然'。我们曾探讨罗马皇帝马可·奥勒留的箴言：你不必赋予事物意义，它本就不会困扰你。事物本身无法塑造我们的决定。纳瓦尔也持相似观点：理性之人可通过培养对不可控事物的漠然来获得平静。

Right in line with this idea of acceptance is something the Stoic philosophers talk a lot about, this idea of being neutral and indifferent to things. We dove into Marcus Aurelius a little bit, the Roman emperor, and he said this: You don't have to turn this into something. It doesn't have to upset you. Things can't shape our decisions by themselves. Naval shares a very, very similar sentiment: A rational person can find peace by cultivating indifference to things outside of their control.

这或许是我毕生研习哲学获得的重要启示：对生活中绝大多数事物保持漠然。并非所有事，但基本涵盖健康、家庭和使命之外的领域。因为你会发现，我们对世界的不满常源于琐事——某人的言语、交通状况、经济走势。若你赋予这些事物价值，它们将耗尽你有限的每日精力，侵蚀真正重要之事。

This might be one of the greatest lessons that philosophy from reading and studying has taught me throughout my life. It's just the goal to be indifferent to most things in life. Not everything, but basically everything outside of your health, family, and your mission. Because what you start to realize is that much of our discontent with the world, with what's happening, is often on such trivial things what this person said, maybe traffic, what's going on in the economy And if you give those things value, if you aren't indifferent to them, they take so much of your energy and bandwidth that you only have a finite amount of every single day. And it takes away from things that actually matter to things that are such trivial in your life.

我想分享尼沃尔登关于中立性的段落：'人们以为中立会活得乏味，实则不然，这是孩童的生存状态。观察幼儿可知，他们总体快乐，因其全然沉浸环境当下，不受个人偏好与欲望的干扰。'

I want to read a little passage on neutrality from Nivolden. I think it's really interesting. He writes this, I think people believe neutrality would be a very bland existence. No, this is the existence little children live. If you look at little children, on balance, they're generally pretty happy because they are really immersed in the environment and the moment, without any thought of how it should be given their personal preferences and desires.

我认为中立状态实为完美境界。只要不过度纠结内心，人就能非常快乐。选择中立就是选择临在——万物皆如其本然。不渴求改变任何事物，你就能全然活在当下所为之中。

I think the neutral state is actually a perfection state. One can be very happy as long as one isn't too caught up in their own head. The simple choice to be neutral is the choice to be present. Everything just is as it is. By not desiring for anything to be different, you could just be in the moment, in the present, in what you are doing right now.

这是个很好的认知框架。他指出儿童最快乐，原因很简单：他们只是在生活，在享受生命本身。

It's a good framework to look things at through. He mentions that kids are the happiest people. Why? It's because they're just living. They're just enjoying life.

他们不考虑负担，不渴望改变。我认为这适用于人生几乎所有领域。若想获得快乐，就观察最快乐的人群，发掘深层原因。财富、成功乃至失败，莫不如此。

They're not thinking about the burdens, desiring things to be different. I think that's a really good framework for almost anything in life. If you want to be happy, who are the happiest people? Then find the underlying reasons why. Same with wealth or success or even failure.

是什么促使某些人做出这样的选择，或达到这种状态，或来到他们生命中的这一刻？这正是我们制作整个播客的原因，为了揭示成功的秘密或人们所处位置背后的原因。Naval还提到了一些其他重要且有趣的观点。他说，我根本不相信自己过去的任何事情。任何事。

What led certain people to do this, or to this state, or to this moment in their life? And that's exactly why we do this entire podcast, to uncover the secret success or the reasons why people are where they are at. And Naval also says some other things that are important and interesting. He says, I just don't believe in anything from my past. Anything.

没有回忆。没有遗憾。没有故人。没有旅程。什么都没有。

No memories. No regrets. No people. No trips. Nothing.

我们的许多不快乐源于将过去与现在进行比较。我认为忘记过去的一切显然非常困难，几乎是不合理的。但若要快乐，细想之下，就是要忘记一切。因为当你能够忘记一切时，你只知道当下发生的事情。你不会比较，而比较是欲望的根源，欲望又是痛苦的根源。

A lot of our unhappiness comes from comparing things from the past to the present. I think the idea to forget everything from your past is obviously very difficult, almost unreasonable in my mind. But to be happy is, if you think about it, is to forget it all. Because when you can forget it all, all you know is what's happening right now. You're not comparing, and comparing is the root of desire, and desire is the root of suffering.

他说的另一件事，与我们之前讨论的内容相呼应，他说：我认为人类最常见的错误是相信某种外部环境会让你快乐。无论如何，没有任何外部事物能解决你的快乐问题。这让我思考生活中我们未能认识到的智慧。在我看来，最智慧的人往往是那些临终或生命即将结束的人，那些时间所剩无几的人，因为他们会告诉你生命最大的真相和忏悔。他们会告诉你他们希望自己做过的事情。

Then something else he says, which goes back to what we talked about earlier, is he says this, I think the most common mistake for humanity is believing you're going to be made happy because of some external circumstance. No matter what, no external thing will solve your happiness problem. This got me thinking about the idea of the wisdom we fail to acknowledge in life. In my mind, the wisest people are often those on their deathbed or nearing the end of their life, those who have limited time left, because they'll give you life's biggest truth and confessions. They'll tell you the things they wish they had done.

我认为在这些忏悔中，常常有这些共同的主题，比如金钱不会让你快乐。我希望我曾抓住机会或做了那件事。我应该追逐梦想。家庭和健康才是唯一重要的。然而，这些常见的忏悔，我们往往未能内化其智慧，并在自己的生活中陷入同样的陷阱。

I think amongst those confessions are often these common themes, like money won't make you happy. I wish I would've taken the chance or done the thing. I should've chased the dream. Family and health are the only things that matter. Yet these common confessions, we often fail to internalize their wisdom, and we fall into the same traps in our own life.

我认为Naval刚刚所说的正是这些伟大真理之一。人类最常见的错误是相信某种外部环境会让你快乐。然而，我们多少次看到有人为了追求他们认为会让他们快乐的外部事物而毁掉自己的生活，结果却发现那并不能让他们快乐？因此，我认为一个对我有帮助并将继续帮助我的小建议是：那些比你年长的人，那些临终的人，他们知道一些你不知道的事情。如果是这样，或许值得倾听他们，至少与他们交谈。

I think Naval hits it right on the head with one of those great truths with what he just said. I think the most common mistake for humanity is believing you're going to be made happy because of some external circumstance. Yet, how often do we see someone throw their life away to get some external thing they thought would make them happy, only for it not to make them happy? So, I think just a small piece of advice that has helped me and will continue to help me in my life is that those older than you, those on their deathbed, they know a few things that you don't. If that's the case, it's probably worth listening to them, or at least talking with them as well.

Naval还谈到了另一个我非常喜欢的观点，那就是限制使用‘应该’这个词。他说，今天发生的许多事情就是你们现在正在做的——自责、潦草地记笔记，说‘我需要做这个，我需要做那个，我需要做。’不，你不需要做任何事。你‘应该’做的只是你想做的事。他基本上试图从自己的词汇中剔除‘应该’这个词，这是一个非常棒的框架。‘应该’通常是按照世界认为需要做的事情去做的标志。

Something else Naval talks about that I loved, I really love this, is this idea of limiting the word should. He says, A of what goes on today is what many of you are doing right now beating yourself up and scribbling notes and saying, 'I need to do this, and I need to do that, and I need to do.' No, you don't need to do anything. All you should do is what you want to do. He basically tries to get rid of the word should from his vocabulary, and it's a great, great framework. Should is often a sign of doing things with what the world thinks needs to be done.

我应该上大学。我应该打扫房子，这样客人会觉得舒适。我应该花时间陪某些人。但更好的问题是，你想做这些事吗？这才是唯一重要的框架，也是决策应该基于的唯一框架。

I should go to college. I should clean the house, so it's nice for the guests. I should spend time with certain people. But the better question is, do you want to do those things? That's the only framework that should matter, and the only framework decisions should be made through.

Naval提出了一个很好的问题作为个人衡量标准：一天中有多少时间是在出于义务而非兴趣做事？我们将在播客的财富部分更多地讨论兴趣与义务的概念。但你需要不断问自己，你是出于义务和标准做这件事，还是出于兴趣？前者会让你走上一条通往痛苦的单行道。

Naval has this great question to ask yourself, a personal metric. How much of the day is spent doing things out of obligation rather than out of interest? We're going to talk a lot more about this idea of interest versus obligation in the wealth part of this podcast as well. But you need to relentlessly ask yourself, are you doing this out of obligation and standards, or are you doing this out of interest? Doing the former is going to put you on a path to, on a one way track to misery.

后者则会让你走上一条通往平静、快乐和自由的单行道。因此，尽可能尝试摒弃‘应该’这个词，基于兴趣做事，你的生活中可能会开始发生一些神奇的事情。Naval还大力倡导的另一件事，实际上是他生活中的首要任务，就是他的健康。他说：我生活中的首要任务，高于我的快乐，高于我的家庭，高于我的工作，是我自己的健康。它始于我的身体健康。

Doing the latter is putting yourself on a one way track to peace, happiness, and freedom. So, as much as you can, try to get rid of the word should and do things based on interest, and some magic might start to happen in your life. Something else Naval is a big advocate for as well, it's actually his number one priority in his life, is his health. He says, My number one priority in life, above my happiness, above my family, above my work, is my own health. It starts with my physical health.

其次，是我的心理健康。第三，是我的精神健康。接着是家人的健康。然后是家人的幸福。之后，我才能走出去，与世界其他部分做任何需要做的事。

Second, it's my mental health. Third, it's my spiritual health. Then it's my family's health. Then it's my family's well-being. After that, I can go out and do whatever I need to do with the rest of the world.

一切以他自身为先——健康、身体、心理、精神和情绪。然后其他才是次要的：家庭、朋友、孩子。对多数人而言，这听起来或许像非常自私的言论或生活方式，但我认为最终这其实是最无私的行为。人们常常把他人放在首位当作美德信号，比如‘看我多么无私，我是多好的人’，至少是这种无私的理念。

Everything is about him first his health, physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional. And then everything else is second family, friends, kids. And I think for most, that might sound like a very selfish thing to say or do or live your life by, but I think it's actually the most unselfish thing in the end. I think too often, putting others first becomes this sign of virtue signaling. Like, Look at how unselfish I am and how good of a person I am, and at least this idea of being unselfish.

但这实际上可能是最自私的行为。忽视自己的健康、快乐与平静去成全他人，其实是相当愚蠢的。你生命中最重要的人应该是你自己，你应当如此对待自己。照顾好健康，确保快乐优先于其他事务。因为如果你不健康不快乐，会对他人产生负面连锁效应。

But it might actually be the most selfish thing to do. To neglect your own health, your own happiness, your own peace for that of others is actually quite foolish. The most important person in your life should be you, and you should treat yourself like it. Take care of your health, and make sure your happiness is taken care of before you do anything else. Because if you aren't healthy and happy, there's this downstream effect on others that is negative.

但当你身心状态俱佳时，你也能更好地对待他人。我认为这是个悖论：通过对自身健康的‘自私’，反而成就了最无私的行为。Naval在健康理念中也提到：‘要获得内心平静，必须先让身体平静。’简言之，想快乐就必须健康。

But when you are in a great physical and mental state, you become better for others as well. I think it is a paradox. By being so selfish with yourself and your health, it actually becomes the most unselfish thing you can do. Naval also says this on this idea of health, To have peace of mind, you have to have peace of body first. Simply put, if you want to be happy, you have to be healthy.

毋庸置疑，就这么简单。Naval提出快乐的另一要素是重视时间。许多雄心勃勃的成功人士正是深谙时光易逝，才最大化利用时间，绝不虚度光阴。

No ifs, ands, or buts about it. As simple as that. Another aspect of happiness, Naval argues, is the importance of valuing your time. This is something a lot of people, especially who are ambitious and successful, do is because they have a really good understanding of how fleeting their time is, so they take the most advantage of it. They don't waste their time.

Naval亲口说过：‘我厌恶浪费时间。在派对、活动、晚宴中，一旦发现是浪费时间，我会立即离开——这让我以无礼著称。珍惜时间，这是你唯一的财富，比金钱更重要。

Naval said himself, I hate wasting time. I'm very famous for being rude at parties, events, dinners, where the moment I figure out it's a waste of my time, I leave immediately. Value your time. It's all you have. It's more important than your money.

比朋友更重要。比任何事物都重要。时间是你仅有的资产。别浪费它。这又回到我们刚才讨论的义务与兴趣之辩。

It's more important than your friends. It's more important than anything. Your time is all you have. Do not waste your time. And it goes back to what we talked just a minute ago about doing things out of obligation versus interest.

你生命中的绝大部分应当由兴趣驱动。如果正在做不喜欢的事，就停止。如果在活动中感到无趣，就离开。别因‘应该留下’而勉强。若有人邀约而你不想去，就拒绝。

The vast majority of your life should be lived out of interest. If you are doing something you don't like, stop doing it. If you're at an event and not having fun, leave. Don't stay because you should stay. If someone asks you to hang out and you don't want to, don't.

不要因为‘应该交往’而相处。问问自己是否真心愿意？正如我所说，我们将在第二部分详谈。但如果你需要纠结是否做某件事，答案永远是否定的。这与奥普拉·温弗瑞的生活理念高度一致——她只对‘绝对肯定’的事说yes。

Don't hang out because you should hang out with them. Do you want to? And we'll talk more about this, like I said, on the second section on well. But if you have to think and can't decide if you want to do something, the answer is always no. It's a very similar concept to that of Oprah Winfrey, who lives her life by this idea of like a resounding left, a resounding yes.

若非绝对肯定，她就不会做。Naval还说过一句我认为至关重要的话：‘别花时间取悦他人。他人的快乐是他们的问题，不是你的问题。’

If it's not a resounding yes, then she doesn't do the thing. Naval also says something that I think is really important. He says this: Don't spend your time making other people happy. Other people being happy is their problem. It's not your problem.

如果你快乐，也会感染他人快乐。当你快乐时，人们会询问你快乐的秘诀并从中学习。但你不必为他人的快乐负责。换句话说，用你的时间去取悦他人并非你的义务。用时间让自己快乐，让他人自行寻找快乐之道。

If you are happy, it makes other people happy. If you're happy, other people will ask you how you became happy, and they might learn from it. But you are not responsible for making other people happy. Like, it's not your job to use your time to make other people happy. Use your time to make yourself happy, and let them figure it out on their own.

你可以帮助他人，但这种方式或许显得自私。然而我认为对时间自私并非自私，而是深刻理解生命有限的表现。人生目标之一就是享受在世时光，唯有严格规划时间、将自己放在首位才能实现。

You can help them, but I think it's an approach that probably actually comes off as selfish. But I think being selfish with your time is not selfish. It just means you have a good understanding of life and how finite it is. One of the goals of life is to enjoy your time while you are here. The only way that can be done is if you're religious with how you spend your time and you put yourself first.

关于幸福，Naval最后强调要理解并思考死亡。他说：生命如萤火微光般短暂。当你彻底认识到所做之事的徒劳，反而能获得巨大幸福与平静，因为你会明白这不过是场游戏——但却是场有趣的游戏。

Now, the last big thing I want to mention on happiness with Naval is understanding death and thinking about death. He said this, Your life is a firefly blink in a night. You're here for such a brief period of time. If you fully acknowledge the futility of what you're doing, then I think it can bring great happiness and peace because you realize this is a game. But it's a fun game.

重要的是在人生旅程中体验现实，何不以最积极的方式解读？他继续道：每当陷入 ego 之争时，我就想想那些消亡的整个文明。这是个绝佳框架，比如苏美尔人——

All that matters is you experience your reality as you go through. Why not interpret it in the most positive way possible? He continues, Whenever I get caught up in my ego battles, I just think of entire civilizations that have come and gone. This is a great framework. He says, For example, take the Sumerians.

他们曾是重要人物，成就斐然，但你能说出一个苏美尔人的名字吗？他们有什么流传至今的有趣事迹或重要贡献？没有。生命如此短暂（虽然身处其中难以体会），但若能领悟这点，就会明白：既然生命既短且珍，为何不做让自己兴奋快乐的事？

I'm sure they were very important people and did great things, but go ahead and name me a single one. Tell me anything interesting or an important Sumerians that they did and lasted. Nothing. Life is so short, which is hard to internalize while you are here. But if you can, you understand that if it is so short and precious, why not do things that make me excited and happy and joyful?

正如Naval所言，人生终究是场游戏，目标是尽情享受。死亡的意义在于不断提醒你时光无多，促使你为兴趣而非义务做事。记住Naval的忠告：终有一天你会死去，这一切都无关紧要。

Life is ultimately a game, as Naval said, and the goal is to have as much fun as possible. The thing with death is it puts you on that path because it's a constant reminder you won't be here that long. If your time is short, you try to do things you love things out of interest, not obligation. Take the advice of Naval. You're going to die one day, and none of this is going to matter.

所以享受当下吧。做些积极的事。传递爱意。让他人开心。开怀大笑。

So enjoy yourself. Do something positive. Project some love. Make someone happy. Laugh a bit.

珍惜此刻，专注工作。Naval还谈到愤怒情绪：愤怒是你与自己签订的契约，承诺在现实改变前持续承受身心折磨。我认为愤怒只是你对世界认知存在缺陷的标志——愤怒源于期待事物按你预期发展。

Appreciate the moment, and do your work. And then some other things Naval talks about that I think are worth mentioning before we move on. He talks a lot about the emotion of anger, and he says, Anger is a contract you make with yourself to be in physical and mental and emotional turmoil until reality changes. I often think anger is just a sign that you have a flawed understanding of how the world works. To be angry at something is to expect things to go your own way.

可现实总与预期相悖。愤怒本质上是未能领悟生活的混乱本质与无常性。另一个精彩观点是：游戏时，要围绕在快乐的人身边（重复两次）。人们总说要结交更优秀或高效的人，但选择快乐伙伴呢？这个视角太棒了。

Yet all the time, things go out of line with how you expect them to go. So to be angry is simply your inability to realize life is chaotic and undesirable things happen, and you expect them to happen the opposite way. Now, another thing he says that I love, and this is a really good one. Says, When playing, surround yourself with happier people. When playing, surround yourself with happier people.

Naval还提到他对自由认知的转变：从'追求自由'到'摆脱束缚'。他解释：旧定义是'自由去做'...

So much of life is talked about surrounding yourself with better people or high performing people, but what about surrounding yourself with happier people? I just love that framing. And then this frame of thinking is also great. Naval talks about how his thinking of freedom has changed from freedom to to freedom from. So he explains, My old definition was freedom to.

随心所欲的自由。想做什么就做什么的自由。现在我所追求的自由是内在的自由。是从反应中解脱的自由。

Freedom to do anything I want. Freedom to do whatever I feel like. Whenever I feel like now the freedom I'm looking for is internal freedom. It's freedom from. Freedom from reaction.

从愤怒中解脱的自由。从悲伤中解脱的自由。从被迫做事中解脱的自由。我寻求的是从内到外的自由，而过去我追求的是行动的自由。我认为这是极佳的生活心态。

Freedom from feeling angry. Freedom from being sad. Freedom from being forced to do things. I'm looking for freedom from internally and externally, whereas before, I was looking for freedom to. I think a great, great frame of mind to live by.

若要将纳巴尔的哲学归纳为关于不快乐的三大支柱，那就是：第一，减少欲望。如他所说，幸福就是什么都不缺的状态。当你无欲无求时，就能安于现状。当你享受所拥有的一切时，就能享受你唯一拥有的——当下这一刻。

I think if you want to break down Nabal's philosophy into three main pillars on unhappiness, it's this: one. Desire less. As he said, happiness is the state when nothing is missing. When you don't desire anything, you are at peace with what you have. And when you enjoy what you have, you can enjoy the only thing you ever have, which is this moment.

第二，追求兴趣而非义务。正如他所言，你应该从词汇表中删除'应该'这个词。你的生活和时间应该充满你想做的事，而不是你该做的事。最后一点：接纳一切。

Two. Pursue interest over obligation. As he said, you should eliminate the word should from your vocabulary. Your life and time should be full of things you want to do, not things you should do. And then lastly, accept everything.

尼沃尔说：理性之人可以通过培养对不可控事物的漠然来获得平静。幸福的关键不是改变现状，而是接纳事物的本真。减少欲望，追求兴趣而非义务，接纳一切。现在我们来谈谈财富观。就像幸福一样——这个观点可能不那么令人惊讶——但纳瓦尔将其视为你拥有的技能。

Nivol said, A rational person can find peace by cultivating indifference to things outside of their control. The key to happiness is not changing the way things are, but accepting them as they are what they will be. Desire less, pursue interest over obligation, and accept everything. We're going move on to this idea of wealth now. And just as with happiness, and this one is probably not as surprising, but Naval views it as a skill you have.

他说：赚钱不是你做的事，而是你学习的技能。显然这涉及诸多因素，但他强调最重要的一点是选择正确的赛道。他说：如果你还不知道该做什么，最关键的是先弄明白。在确定方向前不要埋头苦干。我认为他特别强调两个关键因素。

He says, Making money is not a thing you do it's a skill you learn. Obviously, there's a lot of factors that go into it, but one of the biggest and most important things that he talks about is choosing the right game to play. He says, If you don't know yet what you should work on, the most important thing is to figure it out. You should not grind a lot of hard work until you figure out what you should be working on. I think there are two key factors he talks a lot about with this.

首先是全心投入你热爱的事业，让工作如同游戏。其次是长期主义的重要性——这两个理念我们在播客中反复探讨，尤其是与杰夫·贝索斯、史蒂夫·乔布斯、山姆·沃尔顿等商业巨擘相关。我想深入这两点，但首先要谈第一点：做你热爱的事。纳瓦尔说：如果你没有百分百投入，那些全情投入的人会碾压你。

The first is doing something you're 100% into, something you love to do, that thing that makes just work feel like play. The second is the importance of playing long games. Two ideas that we've talked a lot about on this podcast, especially with business giants like Jeff Bezos, Steve Jobs, Sam Walton. I want to dive into both of these, but first I want to start off with the first, doing something you love. Naval says this, If you're not 100% into it, somebody else who is 100% into it will outperform you.

他们不只是略胜一筹，而是会远超于你，因为在这个创意复利和杠杆效应起作用的领域，如果你不是全身心热爱——不仅是爱它带来的结果，更是爱工作本身——你就完了。因为这世上总有人会倾注全部热情，那样的话你必败无疑。

They won't just outperform you by a little bit. They'll outperform you by a lot because now we're operating the domain of ideas compound interest really applies and leverage really applies. If you don't love something with all your heart not just what it brings you, but what the work in itself brings you you're toast. Because there's someone out there who does love it with all their heart, and if that's the case, then you're toast. You're going to get smoked.

制胜关键不在于起点多高，而在于极致热爱——因为热爱会让你坚持更久，最终变得更强。与此相关的是寻找那些即使没有外在回报你也愿意做的工作。纳瓦尔说：我只想为事情本身而做。这就是艺术的定义，无论是商业、运动、爱情还是友谊。我认为生命的意义就在于为事情本身而做。

You don't necessarily win by being better from the start, but by loving the craft so much because when you love it so much, you'll do it longer, which allows you to be better in the end. Something else in line with this is to find work that you would do even if it didn't bring you anything, like anything externally. Naval says this, I only really want to do things for their own sake. That is one definition of art, whether it's business, exercise, romance, friendship, whatever. I think the meaning of life is to do things for their own sake.

讽刺的是，当你为事情本身而做时，反而能创造最佳成果。即便你只为赚钱，这样反而最可能成功。这很像我们在第77或75集提到的村上春树的写作经历——他成为作家时根本没打算专职写作，如今却成为本世纪最伟大的作家之一。如果你做事只图外在回报，那很可能选错了方向。

Ironically, when you do things for their own sake, you create your best work. Even if you're just trying to make money, you will actually be the most successful. It's very much how Haruki Murakami, who we looked at in episode 77 or 75, got into writing. He became a writer without any intention of becoming a full time writer, and now he's one of the century's best writers ever. If you're going to do something for what it brings you externally, you're probably doing the wrong work.

你不够热爱它，而如果不够热爱，你就无法长久坚持或精通到能收获回报的程度，真正的财富正源于此。真正的财富来自长期深耕某件事，直到你变得足够出色，最终获得某种程度的杠杆效应、技能和金钱。纳瓦尔提出一个值得自省的好问题：哪些事本身就是目的，背后别无他求？因为这些往往才是你该追求的事物——有激情才有持久力，而有持久力（正如我们将看到的，也是我们研究的所有案例中反复验证的）正是你建立人生杠杆的方式。

You don't love it enough, and if you don't love enough, you won't do it for a long time or get good enough at it, where you'll reap the rewards and where true wealth will come from. True wealth comes from doing things for a long time where you get so good that it leads to a certain amount of leverage and skill and money in the end. Naval has a really good question that you should ask yourself. He says, What are the things that are done for their own sake, and there's nothing behind them? Because those are often the things that you want to pursue, because where there's excitement, there's endurance, and where there's endurance, as we'll see, and we've seen this all throughout the grades we've studied, that's how you build leverage in life.

我们刚谈到正确工作的标志是它应该像玩耍。纳瓦尔说：'我永远在工作，别人看来是工作，但对我而言是玩耍。正因如此，我知道没人能在这方面与我竞争——因为我每天要玩上十六个小时。'

We just talked about the sign that you're doing the right work is it should feel like play. Naval says, I'm always working. It looks like work to others, but it feels like play to me. That's how I know no one can compete with me on it. Because I'm just playing for sixteen hours a day.

如果有人想和我竞争，他们是在工作，而他们会输——因为他们不可能每天工作十六小时，每周七天。什么是让你清晨兴奋的事？什么烂事能让你起鸡皮疙瘩？什么工作能让你能量翻涌？不管是什么，去追求它。

If others want to compete with me, they're going to work, and they're going to lose because they're not going to do it for sixteen hours a day, seven days a week. What's the thing that makes you excited in the morning? What's the crap that gives you goosebumps? What's the work that gets the energy rolling? Whatever it is, pursue that.

即使初期收入微薄，即使外部回报有限，只要这是你能想象自己终生从事的事，那就是关键。我在阅读纳瓦尔著作时想到两个小框架，能帮你判断是否在做正确的事。第一个来自布莱恩·切斯基的理念：他创立爱彼迎时面试前100名员工时，会问一个犀利问题——'如果你只剩一年寿命，还会接受这份工作吗？'

Even if there isn't much money in the beginning, even if it's not going to bring you much externally, if it's something you can see yourself doing forever, that is a key. There are two little frameworks I was thinking about when I was reading Nabal's work that I think can offer good direction and clarity to know if you're doing the right thing. The first one comes from the idea of Brian Chesky. When he started Airbnb and he interviewed the first 100 employees, he asked them this really interesting question. He said, If you had a year left to live, would you take this job?

他需要那些将公司使命融入血液的人，即便生命将尽仍愿在此工作。我认为这是检验当前所为是否正确的绝佳框架：自问'如果生命只剩一年，我还会继续现在的生活吗？'如果答案是否定的，那你可能正在错误的方向上。另一个与之契合的框架同样来自纳瓦尔：'你能想象自己余生都做现在的事吗？'

He wanted people who bled and lived the mission of the company, so much that if they were going to die soon, they would still want to work there. I think it's a great framework for knowing if what you're doing right now is the right thing. Ask yourself, If you had a year left to live, would you still be doing what you're doing? If not, you're probably doing the wrong thing or living life in the wrong way. I think another good framework that goes right in line with this as well is also something Naval says, which is, Could you see yourself doing whatever you're doing for the rest of your life?

我常这样自问：'我能想象自己永远录制播客和写书吗？'毫无疑问，是的，我会永远做下去。这两个框架能帮你判断是否在做正确的事。这也适用于你生活中的人际关系。纳瓦尔有个精彩观点：

It's something I ask myself a lot, like, Can I see myself recording these podcasts and writing books forever? Without a doubt, yes, I will be doing this forever. I think those are two great frameworks to get an idea if you're doing the right work. This also goes for people in your life as well. Naval says this thing that's fascinating.

他说：'如果你无法想象与某人共事一生，那就一天都不要共事。你要和那些能终生同行的人玩一场永恒的游戏。'这才是关键。当被问及对年轻人最重要的建议时，纳瓦尔的回答与选择工作和人生游戏相关：'在决策上多花时间。'

He says, If you can't see yourself working with someone for life, don't work with them for a day. You want to play one game forever with people you can see yourself playing the game with forever. That is the key. Nunavol was once asked what he thought the most important thing to do for younger people starting out, and the answer relates to this whole idea of the work you choose and the game you pursue. He says, Spend more time making the decisions.

人生早期有三个重大决定：居住地、伴侣和事业。我们花极少时间决定投入哪段感情，却在感情中耗费大量时间；我们在工作上耗费海量时间，却草率选择职业；选择居住城市几乎能决定人生轨迹，而我们对此的考量却少得可怜。他补充道：'如果你要在一个城市住十年、干一份工作五年、经营一段感情十年，就该花一两年时间来做这些决定。'

There are basically three really big decisions you make in your early life: where you live, who you're with, and what you do. We spend very little time deciding which relationship to get into. We spend so much time in a job, but we spend so little time deciding which job to get into. Choosing what city to live can almost completely determine the trajectory of your life, when we spend so little time trying to figure out what city to live in. He continues, If you're going to live in a city for ten years, if you're going to be in a job for five years, if you're going to be in a relationship for a decade, you should be spending one or two years deciding these things.

这些都是具有绝对支配性的决定。这三个选择至关重要。这适用于所有人生重大决定，尤其是你选择的人生游戏。生命如此短暂有限（正如你刚才提到的），你必须确保投入自己热爱的事业。要确定追求的是正确事物，就需要投入大量时间确保决策正确。

These are highly dominating decisions. Those three decisions really matter. This basically goes for every big decision in your life, but especially the game you're choosing to play in life. Your life is so short, so finite, as you just mentioned, that you want to make sure you're going into something you love and enjoy. To make sure you're pursuing the right things, you need to spend time and a lot of time making sure you're making the right decision.

不要匆忙。慢慢来。重大决策的思考到行动过程不该求快，而应该漫长——非常漫长——以确保你最终参与的是正确的游戏。纳瓦尔的第二个重要理念是：长期游戏同样至关重要。

Don't rush it. Take your time. The idea is with bigger decisions, the thought to action process shouldn't be quick. It should be long and very long to make sure, ultimately, you're playing the right game. A second big idea from Naval is the importance of playing long term games as well.

他说，选择一个你能与长期伙伴玩长期游戏的行业。人生所有的回报，无论是财富、人际关系还是知识，都来自复利。如果你不愿意长期投入一件事，首先你就不该做它，其次你也无法从中获得最大收益。这几乎是你看待生活中一切事情的方式——视其为长期游戏。健康、人际关系、工作，整个生命都是如此。

He says, Pick an industry where you can play long term games with long term people. All the returns in life, whether in wealth, relationships, or knowledge, come from compound interest. If you aren't willing to do something for a long time, one, then you shouldn't do it, first of all, but two, you won't reap the maximum amount of rewards from the thing. It's how you should view almost everything in life, just as a long term game. Health, relationships, work, all of life as a whole.

显然，这其中的挑战在于你在耕耘时的耐心等待能力。你能坚持十年不收获回报吗？Naval有句名言——这可能是我最喜欢他说的话——'对行动要急躁，对结果要耐心'。

Obviously, the challenging part of this is your ability to be patient and wait while you work. Can you work for a decade before you reap the rewards? Naval has a great line. This might be my favorite line from him. He says, Impatient with actions, patience with results.

对行动急躁，对结果耐心。每天都要完成该死的工作。要积极主动，把事情做完，但要用长期视角衡量结果。行动要快，但对结果要有耐心。

Impatient with actions, patience with results. Every day, do the damn work. Be aggressive. Get stuff done, but measure the result on a long term horizon. Short to action, but be patient with results.

这也适用于你选择共事的人。Naval说：'我不相信任何短期思维或交易。如果我发现合作对象对他人采取短期思维模式，我就会终止合作。人生所有收益都来自复利——无论是金钱、人际关系、爱情、健康、活动还是习惯。我只想和那些我知道会相伴一生的人在一起。'

And this also goes to who you're working with. Naval says this, I don't believe in any short term thinking or dealing. If I'm doing business with someone and they think in a short term manner with somebody else, then I don't want to do business with them anymore. All benefits in life come from compound interest, whether in money, relationships, love, health, activities, or habits. I only want to be around people I know I'm going to be around for the rest of my life.

这种态度不仅源于阅读Naval的著作，也来自'伟大学习之树'的启示，我将其应用在自己的工作中。一切都是长期游戏。这个播客、我的书，都不是一年的事，甚至不是十年的事，而是终身的事业。

And this is the approach, not just from reading about Naval, but also from the Great Tree of Study, that I take with my own work. It's all a long term game. This podcast, my books, it's not a year long thing. I don't even consider it a decade long thing. It's a lifelong thing.

最重要的一点是：绝大多数事情都不会按你预期的时间线发展，要认清这点。Naval说：'你必须保持耐心。二十年前我职业生涯初期遇到的那些人，当我看着他们心想‘哇，这人能力超强、聪明又专注’时——几乎毫无例外，后来都取得了巨大成功。你只需要给他们足够长的时间。成功从不会按你或他们预期的时间到来，但终会到来。'

One of the most important things too is most things never go on the timescale you want, and realizing that. Naval says this, You just have to be patient. Every person I met at the beginning of my career twenty years ago, where I looked at them and said, Wow, that guy or gal was super capable, so smart and dedicated, all of them, almost without exception, became extremely successful. You just had to give them a long enough timescale. It never happens in the timescale you want, or they want, but it does happen.

如果你觉得需要一年，实际可能需要三四年；如果预估十年，可能得二十年。人生从不遵循你的时间表。既然如此，就要愿意比预期更久地投入游戏。Naval大力推崇的另一个概念是'特定领域知识'——正如他所说，最佳发现方式是追随你真正的好奇与热情，而非当下热点，这就是选择正确游戏的重要性。

If you think it's going take a year, it's probably going to take three to four. If you think it's going to take a decade, it's probably going to take two decades. Life never goes according to your timescale. If that's the case, be willing to play the game longer than you want to play. Something else Naval is a big proponent for is this idea of specific knowledge, which is best found, as Naval says, by pursuing your genuine curiosity and passion rather than whatever is hot right now, which is why it's so important to choose the right game.

他继续道：'特定知识更多是通过发掘你的天赋、真实好奇心和热情获得的。不是去攻读最热门的专业，不是进入投资人吹捧的领域。对你真正好奇和兴奋的事物，要全心全意长期投入，因为经年累月形成的深刻理解将赋予你他人无法比拟的竞争优势。'如今知识最迷人的地方，显然在于AI发展及其将扮演的角色。

He continues and says this, Specific knowledge is found much more by pursuing your innate talent, your genuine curiosity, and your passion. It's not by going to school for whatever is the hottest job. It's not by going into whatever field investors say is the hottest. Whatever you're curious and excited about, pursue that wholeheartedly on a long time scale, because you'll create such an understanding over that time that will give you a competitive advantage over others. I think what's fascinating about knowledge now is obviously with the development of AI and just how that will play a role in all of this.

Naval说：'如果人类能训练你完成某项工作，终有一天也能训练计算机做到。'因此在我看来，通用知识虽非毫无价值，但会逐年贬值。未来一切价值都将来自成为特定领域的专家。他强调：'特定知识是无法通过培训获得的知识。'

Naval says this, he says, If they can train you to do it, then eventually they will train a computer to do it. Which is why, in my mind, general knowledge is going to be I wouldn't say useless, but a lot less useful as the years go on. Everything will be about being a master in a specific field and area. I've all mentioned this. He said specific knowledge is knowledge you cannot be trained for.

如果社会能培训你，就能培训别人取代你。所以无论做什么，都要找到你能深度钻研的特定领域——那个你如此着迷，能成为顶尖专家，能创造他人或机器无法替代的价值领域。这是关键。找到你能深挖的特定知识。随着AI革命，我一直在思考另一个问题，这又回到Naval的重要概念上。我的非专业理论是——虽然可能错误——但我还是要说：

If society can train you, it can train someone else and replace you. So whatever you're doing, you want to find your specific knowledge where you can go so deep into, where the thing you're so interested in, that you can become such an expert in the field that you can bring so much value that others or other machines can't. That's a big key. Find your specific knowledge that you can go so deep into. Something else I've been thinking about, especially with the whole AI revolution, and this will get back to a concept of Naval's that's important, But my general theory is that, and this is my not so expert opinion, it'll probably be wrong, but I'm going to give my opinion.

我一直在思考的是，我认为我们会在AI的道路上走得太偏右。我们几乎会过度使用它，低估事物的人性层面，以至于在某些方面失去人际联系，然后稍微向左回调，回归人性。这并不意味着我们要完全抛弃AI。AI将永远存在，但从生物学和进化论的角度看，作为动物，我们通过故事、情感、真实性和脆弱性在人与人之间建立联系。我认为我们会因为AI而一度与这种联系脱节，在走得太远之后重新回归人性。

Just the thought I've been having is, I think we're going to go so far right with AI. We're going to almost overuse it and undervalue the human aspect of things, that we're going to miss the human connection with certain things, and then come back a little bit to the left and go more human. It doesn't mean we're going get rid of AI entirely. AI is always going to exist, But I think biologically, as animals, just from an evolutionary standpoint, we connect with humans on a human to human level, through stories, through feelings, through authenticity and vulnerability. I think we'll get to a point where we disconnect from that because of AI, and we'll return to being more human after we go too far with it.

这只是我个人的理论和思考，这让我想到Naval的一个观点。他说：通过真实性逃离竞争。基本上，当你与人竞争时，他说那是因为你在模仿他们。那是因为你试图做同样的事情。但每个人都是不同的。

That's just a theory and thought I've been having, and it brings me to an idea of Naval. He says this: Escape competition through authenticity. Basically, when you're competing with people, he says, it's because you're copying them. It's because you're trying to do the same thing. But every human is different.

不要模仿。我认为你在AI领域获胜，不仅仅是通过使用它——这固然重要——还要通过远离它，通过保持真实，通过保持人性。这有点矛盾，但通过保持真实的人性，你可能会获胜，也许不是现在，但从长远来看，通过玩长期游戏。但问题来了，为什么特定知识如此重要？因为它引出了Naval另一个重要观点——培养判断力，这才是你最终获得报酬的原因。

Don't copy. And I think you also win with AI, not just by using it that'll be an important thing but by also getting away from it, by being authentic, by being human. It's kind of a paradox, but by being human authentic, you can win, maybe not now, but in the long term, by playing the long term game. But the question becomes, why is specific knowledge so important? It's because it lends into another important idea of Naval's building judgment, which is what you ultimately get paid for.

正如Naval所说，我对智慧的定义是知道你的行为的长期后果。将智慧应用于外部问题就是判断力。而培养良好判断力、做出正确决策的唯一方法，就是拥有关于某个领域的特定知识基础，使你能看到别人看不到的东西。这正是Naval通过投资公司、发现漏洞或改进领域来获得报酬的原因，他的判断力能帮助整体提升公司。值得注意的是，生活中大多数正确决策的判断力并不一定来自于你知道什么会成功，而是知道什么不会成功。

As Naval says, My definition of wisdom is knowing the long term consequences of your action. Wisdom applied to external problems is judgment. And the only way to build judgment, good judgment, and make good decisions is to have such a good base of specific knowledge about a field that you can see things that others can't see. This is exactly what Naval gets paid for and gets his money for by investing in companies and finding loopholes or areas of improvement where his judgment can help improve the company as a whole. I think something worth noting is most of judgment of making the right decisions in life doesn't necessarily come down to what you know will work, but to knowing what won't work.

Naval说过，我不相信自己有能力预测什么会成功。相反，我试图排除那些不会成功的事情。我认为成功就是不犯错。不是拥有正确的判断力，而是避免错误的判断。所以目标是找到你热爱的事情，你会一直做下去的事情，帮助你建立特定知识，从而形成能让你获得报酬的卓越判断力。

Naval said this, I don't believe I have the ability to say what is going to work. Rather, I try to eliminate what's not going to work. I think being successful is just about not making mistakes. It's not about having correct judgment it's about avoiding incorrect judgments. So the goal is to find what you love, that you'll play forever, that helps you build a specific knowledge that leads to great judgments that you can get paid for.

简单，但显然不容易。现在，我想提一下Naval其他一些让我觉得非常有趣的观点。我们讨论了很多关于‘我们99%的努力是浪费的’这个概念。他说我们99%的努力是浪费的。当然，没有什么是完全浪费的，因为一切都是学习的过程。

Simple, but obviously not easy. Now, are some other things I found really interesting from Naval that I want to mention. So we talked a lot about this idea and concept that 99% of our effort is wasted. He said 99% of our effort is wasted. Obviously, nothing is ever completely wasted because it's all a learning moment.

你可以从任何事情中学到东西。例如，当你回顾学校生活时，99%的学期论文、读过的书、做过的练习、学过的东西，其实都用不上。你可能读过从未用过的地理和历史。你可能学过一门不再说的语言。你可能学过一门完全忘记的数学分支。

You can learn from anything. For example, when you go back to school, 99% of the term papers you did, books you read, exercises you did, things you learned, they don't really apply. You might have read geography and history you never ever used. You might have studied a language you don't speak anymore. You might have studied a branch of mathematics you completely forgot.

当然，这些都是学习经历。你确实学到了。你学到了努力工作的价值。你可能学到了一些深入心灵的东西，成为你现在所做事情的一部分。但至少就目标导向的生活而言，你付出的努力中只有约1%得到了回报。

Of course, these are learning experiences. You did learn. You learned the value of hard work. You might have learned something that went deep into your psyche and became a piece of what you're doing now. But at least when it comes to goal oriented life, only about 1% of the efforts you made paid off.

这是个非常有趣的观点。目标是一旦你找到那真正贡献于你成功和进步的1%，那就是你全力以赴的时候。正如他所说，当你在约会时，一旦知道这段关系不会走向婚姻，你可能应该放手。当你在学习地理或历史时，意识到你永远不会用到这些信息，就放下吧。这是在浪费时间。

It's a really interesting idea. The goal is once you find the 1% that actually contributes to your success and progress, that's when you want to go all in. As he says, When you're dating, the instant you know this relationship is not going to be the one that leads to marriage, you should probably move on. When you're studying something like geography or history and you realize you're never going to use the information, drop the clasp. It's a waste of time.

这是在浪费你的脑力。我不是说不要做那99%，因为很难识别什么是那1%。我是说，当你找到你那不会浪费的1%领域，你能够终身投入并对你有意义的领域时，全力以赴，忘记其他。矛盾的是，要找到那1%，你必须经历浪费的99%。但一旦找到那1%，就 disregard everything else（忽略其他一切）。

It's a waste of your brain energy. I'm not saying don't do the 99% because it's very hard to identify what IS the 1%. I'm saying that when you find the 1% of your discipline, which will not be wasted, which you'll be able to invest in for the rest of your life and has meaning to you, go all in and forget the rest. The paradox becomes, to find the 1%, you have to go through the wasted 99%. But once you find that 1%, disregard everything else.

他另一个让我欣赏的观点是：当你无法决断答案时——我们之前略有提及——他说，'当我面临艰难抉择时，比如：我该和这个人结婚吗？我该接受这份工作吗？我该买这栋房子吗？我该搬去这座城市吗？我该和这个人合伙创业吗？'

Something else I love from him is this idea that if you can't decide the answers We mentioned this a little bit earlier, but he said, If I'm faced with a difficult choice such as, Should I marry this person? Should I take this job? Should I buy this house? Should I move to the city? Should I go into this business with this person?

那么你无法决定的答案就是'不'。他接着说道，'当你选择某件事时，你会长期深陷其中。创业可能需要十年。开始一段感情可能要五年甚至更久。'

Then you cannot decide. The answer is no. He continued, When you choose something, you get locked in it for a long time. Starting a business may take ten years. You start a relationship that will be five years or maybe more.

你迁居某座城市可能一住就是十年二十年。这些都是影响极其深远的决定。我们必须只在相当确定时才说'是'，这至关重要。你永远无法百分百确定，但可以非常确信。如果不是'绝对要'，那就是'绝对不要'。

You move to a city for ten or twenty years. Those are very, very long lived decisions. It's very, very important we only say yes when we are pretty certain. You're never going to be absolutely certain, but you're going to be very certain. If it's not a hell yes, it's a hell no.

这呼应了奥普拉·温弗瑞奉行的人生信条——响亮的'是'。他还有个相当反传统的观点我觉得很有意思：纳瓦尔不相信传统社交。他说，'我认为商业社交完全是浪费时间。有些人和公司鼓吹这个概念，只因这对他们和商业模式有利。'

It goes back to what Oprah Winfrey lived her life by with the resounding yes. Something else that he has a viewpoint on, which is really a contrarian viewpoint, I think it's very fascinating. He says, It's this idea that Naval does not believe in traditional networking. He says this, I think business networking is a complete waste of time. I think there are people and companies popularizing this concept because it serves them and their business model well.

但现实是，如果你在打造有趣的事物，永远会有更多人想认识你。在开展业务前就苦心经营商业关系纯属徒劳。我更信奉这个轻松哲学：做个创造有趣事物的人。展示你的技艺，精进你的技艺，对的人自会找到你。

But the reality is, if you're building something interesting, you will always have more people who will want to know you. Trying to build business relationships well in advance of doing business is a complete waste of time. I have a much more comfortable philosophy. Be a maker who makes something interesting people want. Show your craft, practice your craft, and the right people will eventually find you.

简言之，与其主动寻找他人，不如创造酷炫的事物让他人主动找你。前者是社交，后者是杠杆。唯有杠杆能让你在生活、工作和商业中获胜。这正是纳瓦尔的核心观点：要赚钱致富，你需要杠杆。

So basically, instead of seeking out others, create something so cool, so awesome that others will want to seek out you. The former's networking. The latter is leverage. And it's only with leverage that you can win in life and work and in business. And I think that's the whole idea that Naval ends up getting to, that if you want to make money and be wealthy, you need leverage.

杠杆赋予你超越他人的优势。具体形式取决于你是谁和想做什么，关键是找到现有或潜在的杠杆领域并善加利用。无论是专业知识、特定领域、技能组合、过往经验或成功案例，有杠杆处就有致富可能。结束前我想再引用几句他的话：'如果某物此刻取悦你但终将令你厌倦，那只是消遣。'

Leverage is what gives you an advantage over others. And what that leverage is will depend on who you are and what you want to do, but the key is to find where you have leverage or where you could potentially build leverage and then go on with it. Whether it's specific knowledge, specific domain, specific set of skill, specific set of past experience or success, where there's leverage, there's a potential for wealth. And some other quotes I want to mention on Naval before we wrap this up. He says, If it entertains you now but it will bore you someday, it's distraction.

继续寻找。你只需专注长期游戏，避开其他一切。他还提到两点：学会销售，学会建造。二者兼备将所向披靡。而致富最重要的技能是成为终身学习者。

Keep looking. Simply, you just want to play long term games only and avoid everything else. Something else he mentions, two things: learn to sell, learn to build. If you can do both, you will be unstoppable. And the most important skill for getting rich is becoming a perpetual learner.

你要持续学习、持续阅读、持续求知。这是关键。有人曾问他最想传承给子女的原则，他说：'尽可能广泛阅读，不只读社会推崇的好书，甚至不必只读我推荐的书。为阅读而阅读。'

You always want to be learning, always be reading, always be in the pursuit of knowledge. That is the key. He was once asked, if he had to pass down a principle to his kids, this would be it. He says, Read everything you can, and not just the stuff that society tells you is good, even books that I tell you to read. Just read for its own sake.

培养对阅读的热爱。即使爱读言情小说、平装书或漫画，也没有'垃圾读物'之说。尽数阅读，最终自会找到该读想读的内容。持续学习，或者说持续阅读，才是致富之道。

Develop a love for it. Even if you love to read romance novels or paperbacks or comic books, there's no such thing as junk. Just read it all. Eventually, you'll guide yourself to the things you should and want to be reading. Learning and perpetual learning, or learning and perpetual reading, is the key to wealth.

尽管世界上许多人都渴望金钱，但Naval指出一个我们多数人直到为时已晚才真正领悟的道理。他说，当你最终富有时，会发现那并非最初追求的目标——不过这个话题留待日后探讨，这也恰好回归到我们本期节目开头与Naval的对话，以及我为何选择以幸福而非财富作为开场。他提出人生的三大要素是财富、健康和幸福。我们按此顺序追逐它们，但其重要性却恰好相反。应当先追求幸福，其次健康，最后才是财富。

As much as a lot of the world wants money, Naval says something that most of us fail to internalize until it's too late. He says, When you're finally wealthy, you realize it's not what you were seeking in the first place, but that is for another date, which goes right back to what we started this episode with with Naval and why I started the whole episode on happiness and not wealth. He said the three big ones in life are wealth, health, and happiness. We pursue them in that order, but their importance is reversed. Seek happiness first, health second, and wealth last.

现在，我想用Naval的几条人生准则来结束本期节目——首先这些准则深得我心，其次它们完美总结了今日讨论的精髓。以下是Naval的人生守则：保持专注高于一切；欲望即苦痛；阅读与学习是终极元技能，可兑换任何其他事物。

Now, want to end this episode with just some rules for life from Naval that, first of all, I love and I think most are really a good recap of everything we've covered today. Here are some rules for life and Naval. Be present above all else. Desire is suffering. Reading and learning is the ultimate meta skill and can be traded for anything else.

99%的努力终将白费。若无法想象与某人共事终生，便不要与其共事一日。所有伟大皆源于苦难。人生真正的馈赠来自复利效应。要用头脑而非时间赚钱。

99% of all effort is wasted. If you can't see yourself working with someone for life, don't work with them for a day. All greatness comes from suffering. All the real benefits in life come from compound interest. And earn with your mind, not your time.

今日节目就此收尾。一如既往感谢各位收听。若想深入了解Naval Ravikant，推荐阅读《纳瓦尔宝典》，该书深入解析他的思想与言论，正是它启发了本期内容。临别前再分享几个心头好：若你喜爱我们的节目并认同这份追求卓越的事业，请向一位朋友分享本期内容，并为我们评分留言，这对节目成长至关重要。

That's where I'm going to end it today. As always, thank you so much for tuning in. If you want to learn more about Naval Ravikant, check out the book The Almanac of Naval Ravikant, which dives into his works and his words, It's what inspired today's episode. And before you head out, a couple of favorites. If you haven't already and you're really enjoying greatness and the work we do, if you share it with one person you know and you gave us a rating and a review, that would mean a ton really helps us grow.

若想更进一步支持，欢迎选购我的著作《追求卓越》或官网上的周边商品。所有链接详见节目备注。再次感谢聆听，下期再会。记住：人生若无冒险，一切皆无意义。

And if you want to go even further than that, if you really enjoy the work we do, you can check out my book Chasing Greatness or any greatness apparel we have on our website. I'll leave all the links in the show notes below. As always, thank you for listening, and until next time, peace. Nothing in life is worthwhile unless you take risks.