第157期：真正以习得为导向的教学意味着什么？每位语言教师都需要掌握的三项关键技能

你好、再见、哈喽（这里依次对应西班牙语、法语、英语的问候表达）。

Hola, bonjour, hello.

我来问你一个问题。

Let me ask you a question.

你觉得有没有可能开办这样一门语言课：课上不教授语言本身、相关规则还有词汇，而是你和你的学生们通过使用这门语言，愉快地了解彼此，也了解这个世界？

Do you think it's possible to have a word language class where instead of teaching the language, the rules, and the vocab, you and your students use the language to enjoy learning about each other and the world?

我希望你的答案是绝对的肯定，因为这正是你会在播客《在能力提升中成长》里发现的内核。

I hope your answer is a big yes because that's exactly what you will discover in Growing With Proficiency, the podcast.

我叫克劳迪娅·埃利奥特，是一名在哥伦比亚出生长大的西班牙语教师。我和你们一样满怀热忱，希望能帮助我们的学习者提升语言水平，培养文化素养。

My name is Claudia Elliott, a Spanish teacher born and raised in Colombia, who is as passionate as you are to support our learners to grow in their proficiency and cultural competence.

我的目标是，大家能在这期播客里理清思路、获取实用策略、收集实用想法、汲取奋进力量，并且第二天就能把这些内容用到自己的课堂上。

My goal is that in this podcast, you'll find clarity, strategies, ideas, and inspiration that you can bring into your classroom the next day.

你们准备好了吗？

Are you ready?

先找个舒服的地方坐好，我去拿一杯哥伦比亚小咖啡，咱们现在就开启这场对话。

Get comfortable while I grab cafecito colombiano, and let's start this conversation now.

大家好。

Hello.

欢迎收听全新一期的《能力成长》播客。

Welcome to a new episode of Growing With Proficiency, the podcast.

我是克劳迪娅·埃利奥特，是本播客的主持人。

My name is Claudia Elliott and I am your host.

今天能和大家在这里相伴我十分激动，因为本期要分享的是我们几周前在CI Reboot活动现场录制的播客实况。

And I'm so excited to be here today because today I'm bringing you our live podcast episode that we recorded inside CI Reboot a few weeks ago.

在本期播客中，我有幸和两位博士嘉宾一同交流

And for this podcast, I had the honor to be with Dr.

凯伦·利希特曼与杰森·弗里茨，我们探讨了一件对你我而言都至关重要的事，那就是为语言习得开展教学所需具备的能力

Karen Lichtman and Jason Fritze to talk about something that I know is so important for you and me, And it's the skills to teach for acquisition.

不过这堂课内容很长，所以我们想聚焦于三项核心能力——这是我们在为语言习得开展教学的过程中，需要始终打磨的能力

But the lesson is long and we want to concentrate in the three basic skills that we need to be working all the time when we're teaching for acquisition.

但首先，我们得先解答一个问题

But we need to answer a question first.

这个问题就是，为可习得性开展教学究竟意味着什么？

And that question is, what does it mean to teach for acquisition?

接下来我们先请

And we're gonna start with Dr.

凯伦·利希特曼博士来解答这个问题。

Karen Lichtman for that answer.

其实我昨天已经多少聊过这个话题了。

So I talked about this somewhat yesterday.

就像你刚才说的，我们所有人的价值观都差不多，我们心里也都明白，我们的教学目标是为语言习得而教。

And as you said, we all kinda share the same values, and we sort of know this, that our goal is to teach for acquisition.

或者我昨天用过的另一个说法是，为内隐知识而教，或是为程序性知识而教。

Or the other terms I used yesterday are teaching for implicit knowledge or teaching for procedural knowledge.

这些说法的核心意思是，你通过教学，让学生在脑海中建立起一种和他们母语那样的语言知识。

So what all that means is that you're teaching to get knowledge in your head that's like your knowledge of your first language.

人类的大脑天生就具备语言能力，而且它能非常高效、轻松地习得语言，不需要耗费大量精力去思考、钻研和死记硬背，这正是你在教学中要追求的目标。

So the human brain is made to do language, and it's made to do it very efficiently and easily and without using a lot of thought and study and memorizing, and that is what you are going for.

所以你要追求的是让学习者把语言掌握得足够熟练，能在交流时快速运用；而不是那种需要他们停下来琢磨、查资料、翻对照表才能用的语言，那种语言对他们来说毫无用处。

So you are going for language that learners know so well that they can use it quickly when they're talking and not language that they need to sit around and think about and look up and consult a chart, that's not useful to them.

所以你要培养的，是他们大脑中形成的抽象且复杂的语言能力。

So what you're looking for is abstract, complex language knowledge in their head.

我觉得这太有实用价值了。

I think that is so useful.

我刚开始接触这个理念的时候，有一件事让我一下子就开窍了——这类教学并不是那种脱离实际的纯学术理论课堂，对吧？

And I always like, when I start learning about it, one of the things, like, one moment for me, like, so this is not an academic and intellectual type of class, right?

就我之前的想法来说，我会觉得只要擅长背诵、记忆力好就行，但后来我才发现，天啊，我完全错了，因为这门课根本不是那套逻辑。

Like, because for me, was that like, oh, if you're good at memorization, if you have a good memory, but then I'm like, oh gosh, I was like totally wrong because this is not that type of class.

杰森，刚才你已经把相关研究和理论部分讲得非常透彻了，那现在跟我们说说，放到实际课堂里这种教学是什么样的？

So now that you were super clear with that research and the theory part, Jason, tell us how does that look like in the classroom.

就是当我们说自己在为语言习得而教学，真正走进课堂之后，一个细心的观察者应该能看到课堂里在发生什么？

So when we're saying, oh, I'm teaching for acquisition, and you go to the classroom, What an observant part should see happening in the class?

沟通，不间断的沟通。

Communication, constant communication.

大量的意义，学生不断在解读含义。

Tons of meaning, students interpreting meaning constantly.

你说得完全正确。

What you said is exactly right.

这并不是学术性的。

It's not academic.

它应该与大学、高中、初中甚至小学中其他学科课程的感觉截然不同。

It should feel very different from other content classes that may be happening in university, in high school, middle school, even elementary school.

我总是喜欢告诉老师：欢迎来到幼儿园。

I always like to tell teachers, Welcome to preschool.

我们是从最基础的地方开始构建语言的。

We're building language from the very beginning.

对我来说，它应该是什么样子的？

To me, what should it look like?

它应该是什么感觉？

What should it feel like?

我的意思是，我合作过的许多母语者都遇到困难。

I mean, so many of native speakers that I've worked with have trouble.

我不认为我能教好自己的母语。

I don't think I would be good at teaching my own language.

英语我没做过，因为我们语言太多了。

English, I've not done it because we have so much language.

我们在限制词汇量并使其易懂方面有困难。

We have trouble limiting vocabulary and making it comprehensible.

所以，我尤其对母语教师说：你有孩子吗？

So what I've said, especially to native speaker teachers, do you have kids?

你有孩子吗？

Do you have children?

想象一下，把你孩子的脸庞放在你的成年学生身上。

Then imagine the face of your child on your adult student.

想象一下，把你婴儿的脸庞放在你的中学生脸上。

Imagine the face of your baby on the face of your middle school kids.

就像你在家里和自己的孩子说话那样跟他们交流。

Talk to them just like you did your own kids at home.

你或许不会在厨房一边做饭一边问他们想吃这个还是那个，但我们依然可以控制词汇量，重复运用学过的词，始终以学生为中心，围绕他们的喜好、厌恶、他们的自身情况、他们的预判和想法来展开教学。我们要尽可能地把课堂重心放在学生身上，引导他们融入教学内容，核心是做到真正的沟通。

You may not be in the kitchen cooking with them, asking if they want to eat this or this, but we can still limit vocabulary, recycle, keep it very student centered on their likes, their dislikes, who they are, what predictions they make, what they think, but we wanna make it about the students as much as possible, bring them to the content, but really just communicate.

尽管去交流，多交流，常交流。

Talk, talk, talk.

但就像比尔·范·帕滕常说的那样：不要对着学生单向灌输，要和他们双向沟通。

But as Bill Van Patten likes to say, Don't talk at, talk with.

这也就意味着，在这类交流过程中，我们提出问题，学生们作答，我们接着提出追问，学生们继续回答，之后他们也会提出问题，我们为他们提供学习支架，同时和整个小组交流，整个过程就是持续不断地用目标语言沟通。

And so that means in that communication, we're asking questions, they're answering, we're asking follow-up questions, they're answering, they're asking the question, we're scaffolding, we're talking to the group, It's just constant target language communication.

这种课堂氛围应该更像一场日常对话，而不是一堂严肃的学术课程。

It should feel like a conversation rather than an academic class.

是的。

Yes.

而且我觉得你刚才说的这点非常关键，因为我们需要把自己的学习者看作是和我们相互交流、彼此对话的对象，而不是我们单向灌输的对象。

And I think what you said is so key because I think we need to think about our learners as the person that we are talking with, talking to, not talking at.

而且有时候我们会忘记这点，是吧？

And sometimes we forget, right?

所以我们得一直把这点记在心上。

Like we need to keep that in mind.

也就是我们要进行什么样的交流。

It's like what type of conversation we're having.

在我们开始讲解作为本次核心内容的教学技巧之前，先提一下你刚才提到的两件事。

Now, before we start with the skills, which is like really the center of this, you mentioned two things.

你刚才提到了两个词，我想把它们弄明白，或许在座的某位能给我们再讲讲清楚，因为我觉得我们很多人对这两个词都存在误解。

You mentioned two words that I want to like have some clarity and maybe one of you can give us more clarity about that because I feel like we have a misunderstanding, a lot of those two words.

到底什么才是真正的交流？

And is what is really communication?

还有你刚才说的那个说法到底是什么意思？

And what is when you were saying it like it's meaning?

所以我们说的这类表达到底指的是什么呢？

So what do we mean like that?

因为如果我们没能把这一点理清楚，我们可能会以为，哦，我们在这堂课里已经在开展沟通了。

Because if we don't have clarity on that, we may think, oh, we're communicating in this class.

然后还觉得我的课堂里正在进行一场很棒的沟通活动。

We are having this amazing communicative event in my class.

但也许我们根本没做到这一点——如果你和我一样，当老师的时候最初只有教科书这一种教学资源的话，我其实……我觉得我本身也算有点底子的，你们懂的，我读过法学院，还拿到了硕士学位。

And maybe we're not doing that because if you are a teacher like me that started teaching with the only resource, that it was a textbook, I had a pretty, I mean like, think I'm a pretty, you know, I went to law school, I got my master's.

所以说我本身是有一些能力的，但我还是花了好一段时间才真正弄清楚沟通到底是什么，以及它的意义究竟是什么。

So like, I have some capacity there, but it took me some time to really have clarity of what communication was and what is the meaning.

你刚才说的‘意义’具体指什么？

Like what did you mean by meaning?

所以我想问问凯伦或者杰森，能不能帮我们理清一下，给一个清晰的定义或者例子，说说什么是符合的、什么是不符合的，这样我们就能把概念弄明白，大家讨论的都是同一件事了。

So I don't know if Karen or Jason, if you can help us a little bit with a clear definition or a clear example of what is and what is not so we can have clarity and we're talking about the same thing.

当然可以。

Sure.

沟通其实就是交换彼此不知道的信息。

So communication is exchanging unknown information.

你知道吧？

You know?

这背后还有更多内容，但这样记倒是挺好的。

There's a little more to it than that, but that's that's a good way to remember it.

所以，比如说，我说：‘这是什么？’

So, you know, if I'm saying, what's this?

这是个玻璃杯。

It's a glass.

这是什么？

What's this?

这是只鼠标。

It's a mouse.

那就不算沟通了。

Then, you know, that's not communication.

对吧？

Right?

哪怕是学生们互相问一模一样的问题也一样。

Even if students are asking each other that same question.

这些都属于展示性问题，作用就是考验你展示自己的知识储备。

So those those are all display questions, which are like, display your knowledge.

但真正的沟通里，你得去询问那些你不了解的信息。

So but you have to ask unknown information.

举个例子来说，就像这样：这是什么？

So for instance, you know, what's this?

这个我桌上刚好放着的小马宝莉玩偶，就是一个用来展示的例子。

This is a My Little Pony that I just happen to have on my desk, is a display question.

但如果我问，比如说，‘我们该给这只小马宝莉起什么名字呀？’

But then if I say, like, oh, what should we name the my little pony?

你懂吧？

You know?

我根本猜不到学生们会给出什么答案。

I don't know what the students are gonna say.

所以我们现在是在交流，这才是真正的交流。

So now we're communicating, and that's that's real communication.

在课堂上，这可以很简单，比如你有教室里的物品，就可以改成‘我们来做个交易’。

In a classroom, it can be as simple as if you got classroom objects, turn it into let's let's make a deal.

谁有三支铅笔？

Who has three pencils?

哦，你有两支？

Oh, you've got two?

谁有第三支？

Who has a third?

你有三支吗？

Do have three?

谁有——我的意思是，你可以做这样的调整，这样你就不再提展示性问题了，而是在玩游戏，找出一些信息。

Who has I mean, you can just make those shifts so that you're not doing display questions anymore, but you're actually playing a game, finding out some information.

什么颜色？

What color?

我这儿有一样东西。

I have an object here.

你觉得它是什么颜色的？

What color do you think it is?

我们这就是在交流了，我刚把它从袋子里拿出来。

And we're communicating, I pulled it out of the bag.

这些都是很基础的教学方法。

These are like elementary techniques.

我们有时候会用魔法袋来做预测活动。

We use the magic bag to make predictions sometimes.

但就像凯伦提到那些展示性问题时说的那样，绝对不能生硬地教语言，而是要真正去探索、获取信息，这一点非常重要。

But it's so important to not teach language, like Karen was saying with those display questions, but to actually find something out.

有时候只需要稍作调整，把你想要使用或者教授的语言灵活转化一下，用它来探寻一些实际的信息就好。

And sometimes it's just shifting, taking the language that you wanna use or teach and just shifting it a little bit to find something out with it.

杰森，我特别喜欢你举的那个‘谁有三支铅笔’的例子。因为我觉得有时候哪怕我们在做基于语言习得的教学，都会忍不住想检查学生的理解情况，或是想重复、巩固某些知识点结构。

Love that example that you did, Jason, about the who has the three pencils, because I think sometimes for us, even when we're doing acquisition based instruction, we want to check for comprehension, or we want to add like repeat and recycle some structures.

要是不留神的话，我们就会一直提各种展示性问题，没法做到真正聚焦。

And we start like, if we don't pay attention, we start doing like all display questions and we are not like really focusing.

但你刚才举的那个例子太巧妙了。

But the way that you just gave the example is so smart.

没错，我们也可以这么做，稍微调整一下就行。

Like, like yes, we can do the same, shifting a little bit.

还有一点对我来说也很有帮助，那就是先明确我们的初衷是什么？

And I think one more thing that for me has been helpful is what is the intention?

杰森，你刚才也提到了这点，就是你当时问的，这在课堂上应该是什么样的？

And you mentioned that, Jason, when you were saying, how should it look like in the class?

然后你提出要跟进追问，因为要是我们再一次丢掉了核心——那就是这得是真实的交流。

And you said the follow-up question, because if we, again, if we lose kind of like the focus on, okay, this is real communication.

我是真心想知道你的答案。

I really want to know your answer.

我想要就你的答案继续追问下去。

I want to like follow-up on your answer.

而不是说，哦，你这个周末做了什么？

And instead of saying, oh, what did you do this weekend?

我去看了电影。

I went to the movies.

好的。

Okay.

那么，凯伦，你这个周末做了什么？

So now, Karen, what did you do this weekend?

哦，我睡了一觉。

Oh, I slept.

好的。

Okay.

现在，阿德里亚娜，你这个周末做了什么？

Now, Adriana, what did you do this weekend?

哦，我读了点书。

Oh, I read.

然后你甚至都不会去深入聊对方的回答，因为你的真实目的其实只是练习谓语时态。

And then you just don't even engage with the answer because your intention is really to practice the predicate tense.

我认为哪怕这不是一个展示型提问，哪怕你确实不知道对方会回答什么，如果你不主动有意识地跟进、不作为这个场景的主导者来搭建一场真正的交流互动，那这个对话就会有点没氛围，进行不下去。

I think even though it's not a display question, even though it's an unknown information, if you don't really intentionally like follow-up and having your mind as the leader of that space to create this communicative event, it kind of like fades a little bit.

那既然我们已经理清了什么是以习得为基础的教学，以及这种教学该是什么样的，接下来我们聊聊要怎么把它落地？

So let's talk now that we have clarity of what is really acquisition based instruction and how it should look like, then how can we make it happen?

就像杰森说的，这件事说起来容易，做起来难。

Because as Jason said, it's so much easier said than done.

就比如如果我们的教室里有一群完全没接触过这门语言的学生，他们脑子里会想：这怎么跟我想的不一样，我什么都听不懂，那我们该怎么让这些内容变得易于理解呢？

Like when we have classrooms of students who haven't had any experience with language, when we have classroom with students that are like thinking about, oh, this should be like different, or I don't understand anything, or how can we make it comprehensible?

咱们来聊聊相关的能力技巧吧。

Let's talk a little bit about the skills.

我想先从杰森这边展开聊聊。

And I want to start with Jason a little bit.

杰森啊，我知道你一直以来都是许许多多老师的引路人，带出来了无数优秀的教师。

So Jason, I know that you have, I mean, you have been the mentor of so many teachers.

你指导过这么多老师。

You have coached so many teachers.

你帮助了成千上万的老师将这些原则真正融入课堂。

You have helped thousands of teachers to really incorporate these principles in the classroom.

那么，作为语言教师，你认为我们首先应该专注于哪一项技能，才能建立起真正以习得为导向的课堂？

So what would be that first skill that you really think we as language teachers should be working on through, so we can build this classroom where we are really leading for acquisition.

问题，问题，问题。

Questions, questions, questions.

多问问题。

Ask more questions.

我不想说装傻，虽然我过去几年确实这么做过，现在可能还在这么做，但或许可以说装困惑。

I don't wanna say act stupid, although I think I did it for years, still do it, but maybe say act confused.

比如，我经常不知道今天是几号。

For example, I often don't know the date.

在我的课堂上，说‘等等，今天是几号？’是非常真实的一件事。

It's a very real thing for me in my classroom to say, wait, what date is it today?

等等，今天是7号吗？

Wait, is today the seventh?

是8号吗？

Is the eighth?

真的，我不知道今天是几号。

Seriously, I don't know today's date.

不，是9号。

No, it's the ninth.

今天不是7号。

Today's not the seventh.

不是7月8号。

It's not the July 8.

今天是9号。

Today is the ninth.

但我经常说：等等，哦，是7月4号吗？

But I often would say, Wait, oh, is it the July 4?

你知道吧？

You know?

所以我在重复使用词汇。

So I'm recycling vocabulary.

我在交流，但老实说，当我问‘今天几号？’的时候

I'm communicating, but I honestly, when I say, What's the date today?

而且我写支票时，经常不知道。

And I'm writing a check, I often don't know.

多问点问题。

Ask more questions.

大声说出来。

Talk out loud.

我们在加州说，有前五项，是由加州政府资助的一项倡议。

We say in California, have the first five, an initiative funded by the state of California.

实际上，我觉得很可能是当年烟草公司获得巨额赔偿时，由他们出资资助的。

Actually, think it was probably funded by the tobacco companies in the big settlement that they got years ago.

但那笔钱用在了孩子在学校取得成功需要什么上？

But that money went into what do kids need to be successful in school?

他们需要语言。

They need language.

他们需要被人读书给他们听。

They need to be read to.

所以这个‘前五项’计划，三个词：交谈、阅读、唱歌。

So that first five initiative, three words, talk, read, sing.

交谈、阅读、唱歌。

Talk, read, sing.

这能改变一切。

It changes everything.

在孩子的头脑中建立语言能力。

Build the language in the head of children, kids.

我们该如何做到这一点？

And how do we do that?

父母通过不断提问来做到这一点。

Parents do it by asking a lot of questions.

那是你最喜欢的玩具吗？

Is that your favorite toy?

我要回到凯伦的话题。

I'm gonna go back to Karen.

我猜那个玩具不是你的，凯伦，而是你孩子的。

I'm imagining that that's not your toy, Karen, that it belongs to it's your kiddo.

但那是你最喜欢的玩具吗？

But is that your favorite toy?

是吗？

It is?

好的。

Okay.

它叫什么名字？

Is and and what's its name?

它的名字叫Lofty。

It's it's his name is Lofty.

哦，它喜欢吃什么？

Oh, and what does he like to eat?

她喜欢吃什么？

What does she like to eat?

它们喜欢吃什么？

What do they like to eat?

嗯，我想我需要更有创意一点。

I you know, I guess I need to be more creative.

大概是金盏花之类的。

Probably, like, buttercups.

你知道的，在教室里，我们很多人都会这么做。

You know, in a classroom, that can be a lot of us do that.

我们这些小学老师，尤其是会创建一个班级吉祥物。

We create a those of us in elementary, especially, create a class mascot.

有些人喜欢用一个词的图像，就是创造一个想象中的角色。

Some people like to do the one word image, you know, create an imaginary.

我们经常这么做，因为这是一个同源词，monstro。

We often do it with a because it's a cognate, monstro.

所以有一个想象中的教室怪物，它会帮我们忙，或者在我们找不到东西时偷走东西。

So there's an imaginary classroom monster that helps us out or steals things when we can't find things.

但通过提问，我们会决定这个角色长什么样？

But just asking questions, we decide what does this character look like?

他们是谁？

Who are they?

他们吃什么？

What do they eat?

他们喜欢什么？

What do they like?

就像你对孩子们做的那样，多提问。

Just like you do with kids, ask questions.

卡罗尔·戈达德多年前说过，这就像是你开车送孩子从棒球训练或足球训练回家时的情景。

Carol Goddard said years ago, it's like when you're driving your kid home from baseball practice or soccer practice or something.

有时候你需要送孩子的朋友回家，无论是参加过夜派对、训练还是其他学校活动，而你对那个孩子并不太了解。

Sometimes you have to drive your child's friend home from a sleepover or a practice or whatever school event, and you don't know that child that well.

你知道他们的名字，稍微了解一点他们的情况，但你得在车里找话题闲聊。

You know their name, you know a little bit about them, but you're having to make small talk in the car.

那么你会怎么做呢？

So what do you do?

你会问很多问题，认真听他们的回答，并在此基础上继续延伸。

You ask a lot of questions, and you listen to their answers, and you build off of.

这正是凯伦之前提到的，沟通就是学习我们不知道的事情。

It's what Karen was saying earlier, communication is learning things we don't know.

就是去了解一个人，建立关系。

It's getting to know someone, building a relationship.

我们该如何做到这一点？

How do we do that?

我们问很多问题。

We ask a lot of questions.

是的，完全正确。

Yes, absolutely.

我认为这绝对是一项技能。

I think that is definitely a skill.

现在，凯伦，你能帮我们一下吗？让我们思考一下一位要去一级班级的老师的情景。

Now, Karen, can you help us a little bit and let's think about the scenario of a teacher that is gonna go to the class of level one.

你说，我听了杰森和凯伦还有这个播客，我需要多问一些问题。

And you say, I listened to Jason and Karen and this podcast, and I need to ask more questions.

但当然，对吧？

But of course, right?

毕竟这是初级水平。

Like it's level one.

那么，语言在哪里呢？

So where is the language there?

然后我觉得，是的，听起来非常正确。

And then I think, yes, it sounds like very right.

就像，是的，当然。

Like, yes, of course.

怎么做？

How?

比如，如果你要告诉一位刚开始进行基于位置教学的老师，说：好吧，我需要提问。

Like, if you would be to tell a teacher that is starting to do a position based instruction and say, okay, I need to ask the question.

你会建议这些老师首先做什么，以便他们能够提出问题，并在整个学年中持续这样做？

What would be the first things that you would suggest for these teachers to start doing so this teacher can ask the question and can sustain that throughout the days of the year?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，提出选择性问题和是非问题是基础。

So asking either or questions and yes, no questions is the basis.

这就是你开始的方式。

So that's how you start.

我实际上和一位老师合作写了一篇研究论文。

So I actually did a research paper with a teacher.

这个想法完全是她的，安吉拉·加德纳，我们比较了‘二选一’问题和普通的开放式问题。

It was it was all her idea, Angela Gardner, and we compared either or questions to normal open ended questions.

所以，一组学生得到的问题是：你的小马喜欢吃什么？

So, you know, one group got, what does your pony like to eat?

另一组学生得到的问题是：你的小马喜欢吃什么——金盏花还是三叶草？

And the other group got, does your pony like to eat buttercups or clover?

如果你使用‘二选一’版本，你就有了很多机会以非常简单的方式重复内容，这对初学者来说会特别有趣。

So if you do the either or version of that, you now have all kinds of opportunities to say it again in a very easy way that's gonna be super engaging for beginning learners.

所以，你的小马喜欢吃什么——金盏花还是三叶草？

So, you know, does the pony like to eat buttercups or clover?

没错。

That's right.

它喜欢吃什么三叶草。

She likes to eat clover.

她不喜欢吃金盏花，但她非常喜欢吃三叶草。

She doesn't like to eat buttercups, but she really likes to eat clover.

你知道的。

You know?

这里面有很多重复和复述，内容很有趣，而且是真实的交流，因为你正在与全班建立信息。

There's there's a bunch of recycling and saying the same thing, and it's interesting, and it's it's real communication because you're establishing the information with the class.

所以 Definitely either or questions。

So definitely either or questions.

Definitely yes, no questions，因为这样学生可以用他们已知的非常基础的语言保持在目标语言中。

Definitely yes, no questions because then the students can stay in the target language with what they know, which is very basic.

你会慢慢引导到那些 WH 疑问句。

You kinda build up to those those, WH questions.

但在你做这一切的时候，我想说，既然克劳迪娅提到了那三项技能，我们就说这项技能是提出有目的的重复性问题。

But while you're doing all that, so I guess, you know, since Claudia advertised, the three skills, we'll say that that skill was ask purposeful repetitive questions.

所以这对教师来说是一项关键技能。

So that is a key skill, for teachers.

在你做这一切的时候，你需要确保所有内容都能被理解。

And while you're doing all that, you need to make it all comprehensible.

所以你不能一上来就用，你知道的，开放式问题。

So you can't start in with, you know, eve even an open ended question.

即使你走进教室，说：‘大家好，同学们。’

Even if if you walk in and be like, hello, class.

今天星期几？

What day is it?

你知道，这对一级水平的学生第一天来说太多了。

You know, that's too much on the first day of level one.

所以，你需要从大量的非语言交流开始。

So, you need to start out with a lot of nonverbal communication.

多用指认、表情、手势和视觉辅助。

So lots of pointing, you know, faces, gesturing, visuals.

比如你画的图、教室里的视觉材料，以及你从网上找到的照片。

So visuals that you draw, visuals that you have in your classroom, visuals that are photos that you find online.

所有这些都能极大地帮助理解。

All of that can support comprehension so much.

而且你还要限制词汇量。

And you also are going to be sheltering vocabulary.

所以，你知道，你可能知道好几个表示‘有’的词，比如我不确定。

So, you know, you might know several different words for there are some things like, I don't know,

跳

jump

这些词在西班牙语和不同方言中各有不同。

that have different words in Spanish and different dialects.

你会选一个表示‘跳’的词并一直使用它，然后通过跳跃的动作来演示这个词。

You're gonna pick one word for jump and stick with it and then illustrate that by jumping.

所以你不会使用各种各样的词。

So you're not gonna be saying all kinds of words.

你会逐渐建立一个词汇量有限的课堂用语体系，用来进行交流。

You're gonna sort of create a class vocabulary with a limited number of words that you can use to communicate.

所以所有这些都属于让输入可理解的范畴，尽管我们还能说很多关于如何让输入更易理解的内容。

So all that goes under, although there's there's a lot more we can say about making input comprehensible.

我喜欢你把整个内容都圈起来，因为我和杰森都提到了这一点。

I love how you, like, circled the whole thing because I and and, Jason, you mentioned it.

你说，想想你跟那个小孩子说话的样子。

You said, think about talking to that little kid.

即使我是母语者，也觉得这真的非常困难。

And I think that even I'm a native speaker, and it was really, really hard.

但当我突然意识到：我当孩子六个月大时，是这样跟他们说话的吗？

But the moment that I click to me, like, did I talk to my kids when they were six months?

我肯定没有用完整的句子、丰富的词汇跟他们说话。

I'm for sure didn't talk to them in complete sentences in all, with all the vocab.

我当时说得非常具体，对吧？

I was very concrete, right?

为什么说要具体呢？

Why concrete?

因为你能展示出来，对吧？

Because you can show it, right?

比如，我不想说：卢卡斯，你想喝牛奶还是想喝橙汁？

Like, so you, I didn't want to say, so Lucas, would you like to drink some milk or you would like to drink some orange juice?

因为他根本不懂。

Because he wouldn't know.

牛奶？

Milk?

橙汁？

Said Orange juice?

牛奶？

I Milk?

果汁？

Juice?

想喝牛奶吗？

Wanna drink milk?

你想喝点什么吗？

Do you wanna drink?

或者你逐渐过渡到。

Or and you build up to.

父母会自然地引导，比如，这就是凯伦所暗示的反馈循环——孩子说出‘牛奶’这个词。

A parent builds up naturally to, Oh, and this is that feedback loop that Karen was kind of alluding to where you get the utterance from the kid that says milk.

好的，你想喝牛奶。

Okay, you wanna drink milk.

我给你倒一杯牛奶。

I'll pour you a glass of milk.

我想我也想喝点牛奶。

I think I wanna drink some milk too.

我想我倒两杯吧。

I think I'll pour two.

父母会自然地这样做，但作为老师，我们需要练习这种技巧，还要努力掌握限制词汇量的能力，把词汇简化到孩子能理解的程度，然后再逐步扩展成更长的表达，因为他们需要这样的语言交流，但这很微妙。

A parent does it naturally, but as a teacher, we have to practice that, and then we have to work on that skill of limiting the vocabulary, limit it down to where it's comprehensible, and then build it back up into longer utterances because they need that discourse, but it's tricky.

你不能太快太急地推进。

You don't wanna go too far too fast.

所以凯伦之前提到过，我们之前讨论过，那匹小马的名字是什么？

So Karen said earlier, like we we talked about, what was the what was the pony's name?

洛菲。

Lofty.

洛菲。

Lofty.

洛菲。

Lofty.

洛菲？

Lofty?

洛菲。

Lofty.

如果我们发现洛菲喜欢吃三叶草，那会怎样？

And so if we find out that Lofty likes to eat clover or?

毛茛。

Buttercups.

毛茛。

Buttercups.

好的。

Okay.

那如果洛夫蒂喜欢吃毛茛的话，我们或许就可以顺着这个思路推进——我会好奇‘它为什么会吃这个’，然后和孩子、学生或者任何参与这个故事的人一起慢慢构建内容，整个过程是循序渐进的。

So Lofty likes to eat buttercups, then maybe we can go with a I wonder Why is she And we build up with the child or with the student in the story or whatever, but it's a very gradual process.

不过没错，一开始我们可以指着日历上的数字、指着对应的日期，或是用全身反应法（TPR）对着这个单词蹦蹦跳跳——首先我们要把这个单词拆解成基础含义帮助大家理解，之后再在此基础上拓展深化。

But yes, initially, maybe we're pointing at the number on the calendar or pointing at the day or jumping up and down TPR for the word, initially we're breaking that word down into the basic meaning for comprehension and then building up from there.

所以对的，我们不能一上来就说：‘我好奇为什么7月4日会是个节假日’。

So yeah, we don't want to just walk in and say, Well, I wonder why the fourth of July is a holiday.

这一切都是怎么回事啊？

What's all that about?

那都属于难度非常高的内容了。

That would be very high level content.

但如果我们打算谈论一个节日，也许可以看看日历并指出来。

But if we're going to talk about a holiday, maybe we go to the calendar and we point.

这样做比重复背诵数字序列要好得多。

It's much better to do that than to do a repeat after me of numbers in a sequence.

词汇列表中没有交流。

There's no communication in a list of vocabulary.

但如果我们可以说，在这些动物中，你最喜欢哪一个？

But if we can say, out of all of these animals, which one is your favorite?

或者今天是几号？

Or what day is today?

今天是节日吗？

Is today a holiday?

今天是个特别的日子吗？

Is it a special day?

现在我们用这些词组进行交流了。

Now we're communicating with those sets of words.

我认识很多老师，他们手头只有单词表可用。

I know a lot of teachers, they're just presented with vocabulary lists.

然后我们常常会想，那我们该怎么做呢？

And we often think, oh, what do we do?

那我们该怎么围绕某个特定主题开展交流呢？

Well, how can we communicate around a particular topic?

而且我觉得，要做到这一点往往得从提出一个问题开始。

And often that starts with asking a question, I think.

不过没错，我们必须让内容具备可理解性。

But yes, we've gotta keep it comprehensible.

我们得控制词汇量。

We've gotta limit vocabulary.

比如全身反应法、手势、实物教具这些都能用。

TPR, gestures, objects, realia.

这件事说起来简单，实际做起来却很复杂。

It's so simple and yet so complicated.

我认为，作为教师，最难的部分是我们面对那种不可预测的结果，对吧？

And I think that the hardest part for us as teachers is when we, that kind of like unpredictable outcome, right?

比如，我们想知道这个问题要问多少次？

Like we want to know how many times do I ask the question?

什么时候该从二选一的问题转向开放式问题？

When do I move from an either or to an open ended?

我要问这个问题多少次？

How many times do I ask the question?

我该怎么做，因为这是交流性的，我并不知道答案。

What do I and this, because it's communicative, I don't know the answer.

如果你在谈论独角兽，发现学生们对独角兽特别感兴趣，那么课堂上就会出现这种高度参与和各种回答。

If you are talking about the unicorn and you find your students that are loving the unicorn, then you're gonna have like this engagement in the class and all these answers.

这就是一个信号：继续提问，因为他们喜欢这个话题。

And that is your hint, keep asking questions because they like the topic.

但如果在4A班，你同样拿出独角兽，满怀热情，却发现学生完全无感，没有任何回应，这就是一个信号：好吧，看来我们得换话题了。

But then if the class 4A, you bring the same unicorn and you're so excited and it doesn't have any connection with the class and you don't get any answer that is your hint that, okay, I guess we're gonna have to move on.

而我觉得，正是这种难以预料的特性让这件事变得非常棘手，对我们这些习惯了PPP教学模式的老师来说挑战极大——你们懂的，就是那种‘呈现、练习、输出，接着再开启下一个单元的呈现、练习、输出’的固定流程。

And I think that part that it makes it so unpredictable is really scary, is really challenging for us as teachers that we used to have the PP model, you know, present, practice, production, next one, present, practice, production, next one.

这套旧模式曾经给我们提供了一层安全网，让我们感觉一切都能稳步推进、顺理成章。

It just gave us this kind of like safety net where we feel a little bit in the kind of, like, flowing.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得这也正是大家依赖教材的原因：教材里的内容都有明确的是非对错标准。

I mean, that's that's why people like textbooks is because it's right and wrong.

当你开始教学不再以 correctness（正确性）为目标时，就像你说的，你的教学方式和教学目标都会变得更灵活自由，也更模糊一些。

When you start teaching not for correctness, it is, as you said, a little bit more free flowing and a little bit nebulous, what what you're doing and what your goals are.

所以比起单纯使用教科书教学，你得多花心思思考这些方面。

So you sort of have to think more about those than you would if you were just using a textbook.

是的。

Yes.

完全没错。

Absolutely.

而且我想，当我们这样做时，是的，孙同学？

And and I think that while we're doing this yes, Son?

是的，你无法控制交流。

Yeah, you can't control communication.

这就像即兴表演。

It's like improv.

你不知道它会往哪个方向发展，你必须接受这种不确定性。

You don't know what direction it's gonna go in, and you have to be okay with that ambiguity.

你必须学会适应，意识到：哦，那条线索、那个方向没有成功。

You have to reach a comfort level in realizing, Oh, that thread, that direction didn't pan out.

我得换条路走。

I've got to go this way.

哦，这个，我得往这个方向走。

Oh, that, I've to go this way.

这是一种需要随着时间推移培养的技能。

And that's a skill set that you develop over time.