同意也可以很性感

大家好，怪咖们，欢迎回到《 Handy Mandy 播客》。

Hello, freaky people, and welcome the heck back to the Handy Mandy Podcast.

我是你们的主持人，阿曼达·保尔，也就是 Handy Mandy。

It's your host, Amanda Paul, aka Handy Mandy.

我是一名持证婚姻与家庭治疗助理，专长于性治疗。

I'm a licensed marriage and family therapy associate who specializes in sex therapy.

我现在可以正式这么说，因为我已经取得执照了。

I can officially say that now because I am licensed.

这周我拿到了我的文件。

I got my paperwork back this week.

我立刻买了相框，马上挂到了墙上。

I immediately bought a frame, immediately hung it on the wall.

所以我们正式上线了，业务重新开张。

So we're official and we're back in business.

这对我来说，是生活中一件非常有趣而令人兴奋的事。

So that's been a very fun, exciting thing in my little world.

我非常期待情人节。

And I am looking forward to Valentine's Day.

这是我最喜欢的节日之一。

It's one of my favorite holidays.

我爱爱情。

I love love.

我爱心形。

I love hearts.

我爱粉色。

I love pink.

我爱红色。

I love red.

你一定要相信，我家的情人节装饰几乎和大多数人圣诞节的装饰一样隆重。

And you better believe that my house is decorated for Valentine's Day almost to the degree that most people decorate for Christmas.

今年我将举办女性友谊派对。

I'm hosting Galentine's this year.

所以我非常期待一场只属于女孩们的有趣睡衣派对。

So I'm really looking forward to a fun little girls only slumber party.

为此我还得做很多准备工作。

I have a lot of work to do on that.

但这些事情一直占据着我的思绪，与美国当下一片混乱的现实形成鲜明对比。

But those are the things that have been occupying my brain, juxtaposed with the absolute chaos that is The United States right now.

我觉得很多听众或者关注我社交媒体的人并不来自美国以外的地方。

I don't think a lot of listeners or people that follow my social media are from outside The US.

我认为这个比例非常小。

I think it's a very small percentage.

所以如果你不住在美国，也不是美国公民，请告诉我，给我留言，说说你从外部视角看这一切是什么样子。

So if you don't live in The US, are not a US citizen, please tell me, message me and tell me like what this looks like from an outside perspective.

因为我们所获得的信息非常有限。

Because the information we're getting is very filtered.

目前我们几乎看不到美国以外的任何情况。

We're not seeing a lot outside of The US right now.

而且我们看到的信息也是经过精心挑选的。

And even what we are seeing is very cherry picked.

鉴于洛杉矶目前发生的一切，希望每个人都平安。

With everything going on in LA right now, I hope everyone is safe.

我们最近几乎听不到关于它的消息了，这很奇怪。

We're not really hearing a lot about it anymore, which is weird.

我觉得新闻现在完全被我们的政治体系占据了。

Think the news is just completely taken up with our political system right now.

这和我今天要谈的内容有点关联，那就是同意。

And that's kind of sort of somewhat related to what I'm talking about today, which is consent.

每当人们谈论同意时，我认为每个人在最基础的层面上都明白它是什么。

Whenever people talk about consent, I think everybody has an understanding at the most basic level of what it is.

当人们想到同意时，大多数人的第一反应是：这是自愿的，还是强奸。

And when you think about consent, most people's minds go to, you know, it's consensual or it's rape.

当人们想到强奸时，艾米·舒默提到过所谓的‘完美强奸’，即必须有枪指着你的头或刀抵着你的喉咙。

And when people think about rape, something that Amy Schumer talks about is the perfect rape, where there has to be a gun to your head or a knife to your throat.

不幸的是，有时在同意被侵犯时就是这种情况。

And that is unfortunately the case sometimes when consent is violated.

但还有很多不太明显的情况，你可能说不清具体发生了什么或哪里出了问题，但你知道那种感觉非常不对劲。

But there's also a lot of less obvious areas where maybe you can't pinpoint what exactly happened or went wrong, but you know that it deeply feels wrong.

这可能就是同意没有得到尊重，或者沟通不够有效的地方。

And that might be where consent is not being respected or something is not being communicated effectively.

而且情况并不总是非黑即白的，要么是同意，要么是不同意。

And it's not always that obvious black and white, consensual or non consensual.

我只是想把这些事情澄清一下。

And I just want to clear some of those things up.

因为同意对于健康的关系、健康的性生活、尊重自己和尊重他人来说至关重要。

Because consent is hella important for a healthy relationship, for a healthy sex life, for you respecting yourself and respecting other people.

更广泛地说，还有一种社会和政府层面的同意概念，我们将在结尾时再回到这个话题。

And on a broader level, there's this idea of societal governmental consent, which we're going to loop back to towards the end.

但即使回想我上过的公立高中性教育课，我们也只是讲了常见的解剖学、生殖、青少年怀孕、性传播疾病之类的内容。

But even thinking about my public school, high school sex ed class, We covered, you know, the usual anatomy, reproduction, teen pregnancy, STIs, stuff like that.

但我不记得我们曾经讨论过同意或愉悦。

But I don't think we ever talked about consent or pleasure.

愉悦。

Pleasure.

虽然当时公立学校的性教育课程内容已经算全面了，但我们依然没有真正讨论过同意。

It was comprehensive for the time for a public school sex ed curriculum, but we still didn't really talk about consent.

而我通过与我所服务的家庭接触发现，许多家长已经开始在孩子很小的时候就教导他们关于同意的概念，虽然不一定是针对性行为，但会教他们关于自己的身体、个人空间，以及如何建立健康界限或尊重他人的界限。

And I've seen with the families that I work with that a lot of parents are starting to teach consent at a young age, not specifically for sex, but just for like, your body, your personal space, and teaching kids how to put up healthy boundaries or respect each other's boundaries.

等到他们长大到能够理解性行为和性情境中的同意时，由于他们已经具备了基本的界限意识，理解、掌握并尊重同意就会容易得多。

And later, when they're like developmentally able to understand what sex is and what consent is in a sexual situation, it's a lot easier for them to understand, grasp and respect it because they already understand basic boundaries.

这有点跑题了。

That was kind of a tangent.

但首先，我们要谈谈个人层面的同意。

But first, we're going to talk about personal consent.

性同意最基础的定义是：通过明确的行为、言语或书面形式，明确表达对参与性活动的批准和许可。

So, the most basic definition of sexual consent is explicit approval and permission to engage in sexual activity demonstrated by clear actions, words, or writing.

当然，有各种不同的情况，但这是普遍接受的基本定义。

There are, you know, many different variations, but that's pretty much the generally accepted one.

现在， consent 有一些非常重要的组成部分。

Now, there are some really important parts of consent.

同意必须是自愿给出的，这意味着没有压力、没有操纵、没有胁迫，你不会感到被逼迫或 intimidated。

Consent needs to be freely given, which means there's no pressure, there's no manipulation, no coercion, you're not feeling pushed or intimidated to do it.

同意也是可以撤销的。

Consent is also reversible or revocable.

所以你随时可以撤回同意。

So you can withdraw at any time.

你可以在一开始说好，但如果之后感觉不对劲，或者对方想做你不想做的事，你随时可以说不并退出。

You can say yes at the beginning, and then if you're feeling weird, or if somebody wants to do something you don't want to do halfway in, you can say no and step out.

同意也必须是知情的。

Consent also needs to be informed.

所以，如果我们考虑最主流的性行为，双方都清楚自己同意的是什么，有能力表示同意，并且知道自己将要面对什么，用更通俗的话说就是如此。

So all parties, if we're thinking about, you know, the most mainstream kind of sex, both people understand what they're consenting to, they're able to consent, and they know what they're getting into, for lack of a better way to say that.

我会讨论一些具体情境，但同意也必须是积极的，这意味着不仅仅是没有‘不’，而是要有一个主动、兴奋、热情的‘是’。

I'll talk about specific situations, but consent also needs to be enthusiastic, which means it's not just the absence of a no, but an active, excited, enthusiastic yes.

然后，同意必须是具体的。

And then consent needs to be specific.

同意做一件事，并不意味着默认同意其他所有事情。

So agreeing to one thing, doing one thing does not imply consent to everything else.

你可以同意只是接吻。

You can consent to just making out.

但这并不意味着你就必须和对方发生性关系。

That doesn't mean you then have to have sex with someone.

希望这能说清楚。

Hope that makes sense.

我们马上会讨论一些具体情境，因为我觉得大家现在都明白了。

We're going go through specific situations in a second because I think everyone is on the same page.

你可能会说，是的，我听过这些。

You're like, Yeah, I've heard this.

要成为同意，必须具备所有这些要素。

It needs to be all of these things to be consent.

我们在这里都达成了共识。

Like, we're all on the same page here.

但我觉得人们开始感到不确定或困惑的地方，是在言语同意与非言语同意之间。

But I think where people start to get a little unsure or confused is when it comes to verbal versus nonverbal consent.

如果同意是知情的、具体的、热情的，那么它就必须始终是言语表达的。

Like if it's informed and specific and enthusiastic, then it needs to be verbal all the time.

我认为一个普遍的准则就是，言语同意最清晰，也是最好的方式。

I think a general rule of thumb, verbal consent is the most clear, the best way to go.

但我们也知道，在日常生活中，我们并不会在和伴侣发生关系时不断问：‘我们可以做这个吗？’

But we also know in our everyday lives, we're not having sex with our partner and asking, can we do this?

现在我们可以做这个吗？

Now can we do this?

你对这个感觉如何？

How do you feel about this?

你对这个感觉怎么样？

Are you okay with this?

这其中有一部分是这样的。

There's some of that.

确实应该有这样的交流，比如‘你觉得这样可以吗？’

There should be some of that like, is this okay with you?

但这并不是持续不断的。

But it's not constant.

并不是说你每做一件事都要反复确认。

It's not like every single thing you're doing, you're having to check-in over and over.

我觉得很多人在这里容易困惑：我并没有对每一件事都问一遍，但这时候非语言的同意就派上用场了。

And I think that's where a lot of people get caught up is like, okay, I'm not asking every single thing I do, but like, that's where the nonverbal consent comes in.

如果你一开始先问一个问题，比如‘你想发生关系吗？’

If you start with a question at the beginning, like, do you want to hook up?

对方回答：是的。

And they're like, yeah.

然后在进行过程中，对方会给出积极的回应。

And then as you're going, they are responding positively.

他们玩得很开心。

They're enjoying themselves.

你能感觉到，能察觉到那种氛围，对吧？

And you can tell, you can pick up the vibe, right?

但如果你知道，对方一开始同意了，之后你却能察觉到他们在退缩——不眼神交流、不再投入，这时候你就应该停下来，用语言确认一下他们的感受。

But if you know, somebody agrees at the outset, and then you can tell that they're withdrawing, they're not making eye contact, they're not really engaging, that's when you probably should stop and check-in with them verbally.

如果他们没有给出那些非语言的信号，我们就需要回到语言沟通，确保每个人都感到舒适。

If they're not giving you those nonverbal cues, that's when we need to go back to verbal and just make sure that everyone's comfortable.

你不需要为每一个想尝试的姿势、每一个动作都反复确认，但你必须读懂现场的气氛。

You don't have to check for every position you want to try, every move you want to do, but you have to read the room.

在这方面，有些人比其他人更擅长。

And that's where some people are better at that than others.

如果你不确定，就直接问出来。

If you're not sure, ask out loud.

你喜欢这样吗？

Do you like this?

你想试试别的吗？

Do you want to try something else?

你还好吗？

Are you okay?

但同意不等于沉默。

But consent is not silence.

仅仅因为某人没有说‘不’，不代表就可以这么做，不代表他们想要这样。

Just because somebody isn't saying no, don't do this, I don't want this.

如果他们沉默了，这并不等于同意。

If they are silent, that does not equal consent.

另外，即使你和某人交往已久，以前也做过类似的事，他们之前也接受过，这并不意味着现在就默认同意。

Also, just because you're in a relationship with someone and you've done things before and they've been okay with it before, that doesn't imply consent.

你们可能已经约会了一年。

You can have been dating for a year.

你们可能已经结婚五年了。

You might have been married for five years.

即使你们过去有过性关系，也不意味着你们可以为所欲为。

Just because you have a past history of a sexual relationship, it does not imply that you can therefore do whatever.

大多数人，你知道的，理性的人，都认同这一点。

Most people, you know, rational people agree with that.

但我刚刚看了，天哪，那部电影叫什么来着？

But I was watching, oh God, what's it called?

《它会结束的》。

It Ends With Us.

你知道，那对情侣已经在一起很久了，至少有一两年了。

And, you know, that couple has been together for a while and it at least a year, a year or two.

有一个场景是他们已经结婚了，他却在利用她，她一直在说不，甚至难以置信他居然还在逼迫她。

And there was one scene where they're married and he is taking advantage of her and she's saying no and she's kind of in disbelief that he's still pushing.

但这种事情确实会发生。

But these things do happen.

仅仅因为你处于一段承诺的关系中，并不意味着同意是自动成立的。

Just because you're in a committed relationship doesn't mean consent is automatic there.

还有一些情况，虽然某人给予了同意，但由于其他因素，这种同意被视为无效或不被接受。

There are also some instances where someone can give consent, but it's considered null or still not accepted because of other circumstances.

我能想到三个例子。

And there's three examples that I can think of.

当一方是未成年人、当一方醉酒、或当存在权力不对等时。

When someone is a minor, when someone is intoxicated, or when there's a power imbalance.

关于未成年人的法律规定因州而异。

So the minor thing varies by state.

在我居住和工作的北卡罗来纳州，同意年龄实际上是16岁。

In North Carolina, where I live, where I work, the age of consent is actually 16.

我知道联邦法律将18岁视为成年，但在北卡罗来纳州，我认为大多数州都规定性行为的法定同意年龄为16岁。

I know federally 18 is considered an adult, but in North Carolina, and I think in the majority of states, 16 is the legal age of consent for sex.

各州对于年龄差距有不同的规定，比如有些州虽然同意年龄是16岁，但不允许与25岁的人发生性关系。

Different states have different laws about gaps or like, so some states, even though you reach the age of consent at 16, you can't have sex with like a 25 year old.

有些州会规定特定的时期或年限允许这种情况。

There are certain, you know, periods or number of years that they'll allow.

但在北卡罗来纳州，任何满16岁的人可以与任何其他超过16岁的人发生性关系。

But in North Carolina, anyone who is 16 can consent to have sex with anyone older than 16.

说实话，这有点离谱。

Which honestly is kind of wild.

这意味着，法律上一个16岁的孩子可以和一个50岁的人发生性关系。

Like, that means legally a 16 year old can have sex with a 50 year old.

真的太恶心了。

Really gross.

现在想想，我觉得应该是18岁才对。

Now that I'm thinking about it, it- I think it should be 18.

但我想，这也不是我说了算的。

But that's, I guess, not my call to make.

还有一项‘罗密欧与朱丽叶’法律，旨在保护未成年人免于被指控为法定强奸。

And there is the Romeo and Juliet law, which is a protection for minors to get charged with statutory rape.

比如在这种情况中，有一个四年左右的缓冲期，我不太确定该怎么表达，就是15岁的人可以和13岁的人发生性关系。

So like, in that one, there's a four year, I guess, kind of coverage period, I don't know how you would word that, where a 15 year old can have sex with a 13 year old.

如果是双方自愿的，他们就不会被指控犯有法定强奸罪。

If it's consensual, then they're not going to get charged with statutory rape.

但如果18岁的人和15岁的人发生性关系，那就是违法的。

But if an 18 year old has sex with a 15 year old, that is illegal.

所以，背后的理由是，任何未达到法定同意年龄的人，即使他们表示同意，可能也很热情，而且真心愿意。

So, and the justification behind that is anyone under the legal age of consent, even though they might be saying yes, and they might be enthusiastic about it, and they might really mean yes.

这就是‘知情’这一部分的关键所在。

That's where the informed piece comes in.

当你还很年轻的时候，你以为自己在做某个决定，但你可能并没有获得做出明智决定所需的所有信息和知识。

When you're that young, you think you're making a certain decision, but you might not have all of the information and knowledge that you need to make an informed decision.

所以，这是一个 consent（同意）本身并不足以成立的例子。

So that's one example of when consent really does not stand on its own.

另一个情况是醉酒。

The other one is intoxication.

这个也一样，我经常听到有人问，意思是说，只要你在醉酒或吸毒状态下发生性行为，就都是非自愿的吗？

And this one also, I've heard a lot of people ask questions about like, does that mean anytime you have sex when you're drunk or high that it's non consensual?

不是的。

No.

这需要根据具体情况来判断。

This is a best judgement situation.

如果你出去约会，双方都喝了两到三杯酒，放松了心情，约会很愉快，彼此都很兴奋，然后回去后同意发生性关系。

If you are out on a date and you both have two or three drinks, you're loosened up, you're having a great date, you're excited, you go back, you agree to have sex.

这种情况其实经常发生。

Obviously, it happens all the time.

在这种情况下，你仍然有能力表示同意，双方都热情地同意，这是可以接受的。

That situation where you are still able to consent and you both are enthusiastically consenting is okay.

这并不理想，但仍然是自愿的。

It's not ideal, but it's still consensual.

当一个人醉得完全失去意识，或者嗨到神志不清，你光看一眼、跟他说几句话就能明白，他根本不在清醒的状态时，这才涉及醉酒问题。

The intoxication comes in when somebody is so blacked out drunk, or high out of their mind, that you can tell just by looking at them, just by talking to them that they are not in the right state of mind.

大家都见过这样的人。

Everyone's seen people like this.

你能分辨出酒吧里喝了一两杯的女生和喝了八杯的女生之间的区别。

You can tell the difference between a girl at a bar who's had two drinks and a girl who's had eight.

这对每个人来说显然都不同。

And it's obviously different for everyone.

有些人两杯酒就醉了。

Some people get wasted off of two drinks.

有些人喝八杯都还很正常，你可能根本看不出来。

Some people can have eight and really, you might not even know.

这就是为什么这种情况这么复杂，因为每个人的耐受度不同，但你要去读懂这个人。

Like, that's why it's so sticky is everyone has different tolerances, but you are reading the person.

他们是有点醉了，但知道自己在说什么、在做什么、要去哪里吗？

Are they a little tipsy, but they know what they're saying, they know what they're doing, they know where they're going.

还是这个人摇摇晃晃，想亲吻拥抱，结果还摔来摔去？

Or is this person stumbling around trying to kiss and make out and like falling over in the process?

她们的状态不对。

They are not in the right state of mind.

你可能会以为人们看到这种情况会意识到并做出正确的选择，送她们安全回家，而不是试图和她们发生关系。

And you would think that people would see this and recognise it and do the right thing and get them home safely and not try and hook up with them.

但我亲眼见过太多次了，有时是在酒吧里遇到的陌生人，有时是我的朋友，你明明看得出那个女孩已经醉得不行了。

But the number of times I have seen with my own two eyeballs, sometimes with random people at the bar, sometimes with my own friends, you can see this girl is fucked up.

你明显看得出她神志不清。

You can see she is not with it.

灯是亮着的。

The lights are on.

但没人在家。

No one's home.

那个女孩喝醉了。

That girl is drunk.

这本该让人倒胃口。

And that should be a turn off.

这应该让人意识到，情况不对劲。

That should be like, okay, this is not a good situation.

她不会知道的。

She's not gonna know.

她不会记得的。

She's not gonna remember.

这可能会构成犯罪指控。

That's a potential charge.

不，我们应该确保她安全回家，给她喝点水。

Like, nope, we're just gonna make sure she gets home safe, get her water done.

但我见过有人对醉到失去意识的女生下手，大概是因为她们的防备心降低了。

But I have seen people go for blackout drunk girls, probably because their defenses are down.

大概是因为她们变得有点狼狈。

Probably because they're getting a little messy.

她们的抑制力下降了，就像我们在关于物质的那期节目中提到的。

They're getting, you know, your inhibitions are lowered, as we talked about in the substance episode.

你的抑制力降低了。

Your inhibitions are lowered.

你在做平时不会做的事情。

You're doing things you wouldn't normally do.

但你也无法在清醒、正确的状态下做出决定。

But you also cannot make decisions in the right, in your correct state of mind.

所以我觉得没必要说这个，但我还是要说一下。

So I don't think this is necessary to say, but I'm going say it anyway.

如果你在外面到处逛，想找约会对象、找女孩，不管是酒吧、家庭派对，还是其他任何地方，看到有人醉得不行、喝多了、吸毒了之类的。

If you're out, you know, on the prowl, looking for dates, looking for girls, at the bars or whatever, at a house party, could be anywhere, and you see someone who is fucked up, they're drunk or they're high or whatever.

而且是的，她们很可爱，你之前可能还和她们聊过，觉得可能会有发展，但现在她们真的醉得不行了。

And yeah, they're cute and you might have been talking to them earlier, you thought it was going to go somewhere, but now they're really messed up.

不要继续试图和她们发生关系。

Do not continue trying to hook up with them.

就此为止。

Period.

明白吗？

Okay?

我曾经介入过。

I have stepped in.

我曾用双手把朋友从那些男人身边拉开，因为很明显这个女孩状态不对，而你明显在利用她，我不能容忍这种事。

I have pulled friends off of men with my bare hands because clearly this girl is messed up and clearly you're taking advantage of her and I won't have it.

我把她塞进优步车里。

I kick her in an Uber.

我跟着上车。

I hop in.

我送她回家，给她弄了点水，因为这种情形总让我义愤填膺。

I send her home and I get her some water because that, that is one of those situations I'm getting fired up.

这种情况下，她可能会说：嘿，我可以跟你发生关系。

That's one of the situations where, yeah, she might be like, hey, I'll hook up with you.

是的，你想怎样都行。

Yeah, we can do whatever you want.

她喝醉了。

She is drunk.

她不知道自己在说什么。

She doesn't know what she's saying.

明天早上她不会记得你是谁。

She's not going to remember who you are the next morning.

这可能会让她受到创伤，也会给你带来很多麻烦。

And that could be traumatizing for her and a lot of trouble for you.

所以，好吧。

So, okay.

另外，抱歉我刚才这话是针对男性的，但就我个人经历而言，我从未见过女性主动追求醉酒的男性。

Also, I'm sorry that I just directed this at men, but I have never, in my personal experience, seen a woman go after a drunk man.

我相信这种情况确实会发生。

I'm sure it happens.

这确实会发生。

It definitely happens.

我很少看到这种情况。

I haven't seen it as much.

我这是在遵循刻板印象。

I'm going with the stereotype.

对此我表示歉意。

I apologize for that.

我们回到更中立的话题吧。

We're going to go back to more neutral territory.

另一种不能表面看待同意的情况是存在权力不对等时。

The other one where consent cannot be taken at face value is when there's a power imbalance.

比如教授和学生、老板和员工、治疗师和客户。

So this could be a professor and a student, a boss and an employee, a therapist and a client.

权力较小的人可能会说：‘是的，我想这么做。’

The person with less power might say, Yes, I want to do this.

他们可能确实是真心想的。

And they might genuinely want to.

但由于存在权力不对等，其中包含了胁迫、报复恐惧等成分。

But because there's that power imbalance, there's aspects of coercion, of fear of retaliation, things like that.

即使这种影响是潜意识层面的。

Even if it's on like an unconscious level.

我不知道你们中有多少人了解‘Try Guys’这个团体。

I don't know how many of you guys know the Try Guys.

我认为两年前，内德·富尔默曾与一位制作助理出轨。

I think two years ago, Ned Fulmer was cheating on his wife with one of the production assistants.

他是公司的高管之一，而她只是助理。

Like, he's one of the CEOs and she was an assistant.

他后来被解雇了。

And he got fired.

严格来说，他是辞职的。

I think technically he quit.

但他被解雇是因为，首先，天哪，你都结婚了。

But he got fired because, first of all, ew, you're married.

其次，你不能和你的下属发生关系。

And second of all, you cannot be hooking up with someone who's your employee.

是的，他们之间是自愿的，但由于这种权力不对等，这并不重要。

Yes, it was consensual between them, but because of that power imbalance, that does not matter.

教授和学生之间，是的，即使这不违法，但也绝对不合适。

Professor and student, yeah, even though it's not illegal, it's just not good.

你可能并不是为了拿高分才这么做，但你之后还得去见这个人。

You, you might not be doing it to get the grade, but you're then going to have to walk in and see this person.

你会希望他对你有好的印象。

And you're going to want them to see you in a good light.

因此，你会感到压力，不得不做一些事情，或者继续做那些事。

And so you're going to feel pressured to do certain things or continue doing those things.

治疗师和来访者之间对我来说很明显，因为我上过很多课，老师明确告诉我：第一条规则，别和你的来访者发生关系。

And then therapist client is obvious to me because I took so many classes of them literally telling me, rule number one, don't fuck your clients.

这有充分的理由。

For good reason.

这种情况比你想象的要更常见。

It happens more than you'd actually think.

很多人执照被暂停或吊销，都是因为与客户发生了关系。

A lot of the reasons people get their licences suspended or revoked is for having relationships with their clients.

这真的很让人不舒服。

It's just icky.

这个人雇用你是来帮助他们的。

This person hired you to help them.

不是以那种方式。

Not in that way.

在性治疗中，有些人可能会误解，以为既然他们是性治疗师，就等于在进行性行为。

And in sex therapy, I think some people can misunderstand and think, oh, because they're a sex therapist, they're like being sexual.

事实并非如此。

That's not the case.

我们不应该有身体接触。

We should not be touching.

除了友好的握手或拥抱之外，还存在权力不对等。

Besides like a friendly handshake or hug, there's a power imbalance.

你向这个人敞开了心扉。

You're being vulnerable with this person.

你还在为这个人付费。

You're also paying this person.

他们确实拥有某种权力，虽然不是我们通常理解的那种，但这种权力确实影响着你的生活，跨越这个界限是完全不可接受的。

And they do have not power the way we really think about it, but they have some kind of power in your life and crossing that boundary is just unacceptable.

而这一切的责任总是落在治疗师身上。

And that always falls on the therapist.

这是他们的错误，是他们的问题。

That is their mistake, their problem.

应该是他们说不，应该守住界限。

They were the one that should have said no, held the boundary.

所以，是的，这是双方同意的，但依然不可接受。

So, yes, it's consensual, but it's still not acceptable.

就这样。

Period.

好的。

Okay.

所以，确实存在一些情况，我会称它们为灰色地带，其中同意是存疑的。

So, are some situations where I would call them grey areas where consent is in question.

其中一个我之前提到过，就是沟通不清晰的时候。

One of them I kind of mentioned before, when the communication is just unclear.

所以，他们没说不，那就一定是 okay 的。

So, like, they didn't say no, so it must be Okay.

这包括语言和非语言的信号。

And this goes verbal and non verbal.

正如我所说，沉默不等于同意。

Like I said, silence does not equal consent.

如果你发现对方有点不舒服或在退缩，那就该停下来了。

If you can tell someone is a little uncomfortable or pulling away, that's when you stop.

那就是你需要确认的时候。

That's when you check-in.

你可以主动发起，对方也很投入。

You could initiate with someone and they're into it.

他们虽然没有口头表达，但通过非语言方式表现出兴趣，看起来也很享受。

They don't say anything verbally, but they're into it non verbally, and they seem to be enjoying themselves.

这属于沟通不清的情况，你知道的，因为当时几乎没有沟通。

That is unclear communication, you know, because there wasn't a lot of communication.

但如果对方热情明显，那也不一定就是非自愿的。

But if the enthusiasm is there, it's not necessarily, you know, it's not unconsensual.

我仍然认为每个人都应该在某个时刻问一问，比如：你愿意做这个吗？

I still think everyone should ask at some point, like, do you want to do this?

你可以用一种很性感的方式问。

And you can do it in a sexy way.

你可以让同意变得很性感。

You can make consent sexy.

我真的很想做这件事。

I really want to do this.

比如，这样可以吗？

Like, is that okay?

或者你想要怎样怎样？

Or would you like to blah, blah, blah?

比如，这可以很性感。

Like, it can be sexy.

去网上搜一下。

Google it.

有很多方式可以做到。

There's ways to do it.

模糊的沟通也可能表现为：我不确定、我不知道，或者我今晚感觉不好。

Unclear communication can also be, I'm not sure or I don't know or I don't feel good tonight.

你知道的，我们并不总是能100%确定自己每时每刻的决定。

You know, when we're not always 100% sure of the decisions we're making all the time.

如果我们不想，那就应该被尊重为拒绝。

And if we're not, that should be respected as a no.

我认为每个人都能想起曾经问过自己：我真的想要吗？

I think everyone can think of a time where they were like, Do I really want to?

其实并不想。

Not really.

但我在这里。

But I'm here.

所以，好吧，我做吧。

So, Okay, I'll do it.

如果你现在正有这样的感受，或者未来可能会有，我建议你把这种感觉当作自己的拒绝。

I would encourage if you've, if you're feeling those feelings currently, or if you might in the future, use that as your own no.

比如，我不太确定自己想不想，那我们就别做了。

Like, I don't really know if I want to, then we won't.

这就是你对自己说的话。

And that's what you're saying to yourself.

如果你问某人，或者你主动发起某事，而对方说：‘我不知道，今晚不行。’

If you ask somebody, or if you initiate something and someone says like, I don't know, not tonight.

那就是拒绝。

That's a no.

事情就到此为止。

That's where it stops.

如果你试图施压，说：‘好吧，但我一周都见不到你了’，或者‘来吧，会很愉快的，我保证。’

If you try and push back and say, Okay, but I'm not going to see you for a week or, you know, come on, like, it'll be good, I promise.

这就进入了施压和强迫的范畴。

That's where we get into pressure and coercion.

这也是一个更模糊的领域。

Also a more grey area.

如果你对某事犹豫不决并表达了出来，而对方却给你施压，说：‘我们这么久没见了。’

If you're unsure about something and you communicate that, and they kind of give you that push of like, we haven't seen each other in so long.

这会非常棒。

It's going to be really good.

等我们做了这件事，你会喜欢的。

You're going to like it once we do this.

或者我真的很想试试这个，你知道的，就去做吧。

Or I really want to try this thing and, you know, just do it.

来吧。

Come on.

别这么保守了。

Like, don't be a prude.

他们正在对你施压和强迫你。

They are pressuring you and coercing you.

即使最后你因为感到被逼迫而说‘好吧，行’或者‘好’，这也不是真正的自愿。

And even though in the end you might say, okay, fine, or yes, because you're feeling pushed, that's not truly consensual.

它必须是自由给予的。

It has to be freely given.

你说：‘好吧，是的，我同意。’

You're saying, okay, yeah, I'm down.

你并没有被逼着说好。

You're not being pushed to say yes.

我认为，这正是我所谓的‘灰色地带强奸’中经常发生的情况。

This, I think, is a lot of what happens when, I'm going to call it a grey area rape.

这并不是枪顶着你的头。

It's not the gun to your head.

通常是你们认识的人，你并不舒服，但他们却逼你。

It's usually someone that you know, and you're not comfortable with it, but they push you.

也许甚至是你的伴侣，他们会说，我们已经很久没做了。

Maybe it's even your partner, you know, that's like, well, we haven't done it in this long.

就说，很快的。

Like, it'll be quick.

类似这样的情况。

Something like that.

他们正在对你施压。

They are pressuring you.

他们是在强迫你。

They are coercing you.

所以即使你最终说了好，你也会害怕他们会生气、会疏远你、会离开你，或者你担心如果不答应会有什么后果。

So even if you end up saying yes, you're also afraid of the retaliation of they're going to be mad at me, or they're going to pull away from me, or I'm going to lose them, or, you know, you're afraid of what the outcome might be if you don't do it.

我觉得这种情况经常发生。

And I feel like this happens pretty often.

防止这种情况发生的一个好方法是明确表达你的意愿，并认真倾听和观察你身边的人。

A good way to prevent anything like that from happening is being clear about what you want and reading and listening to the person that you're with.

如果他们说‘我不确定’，就不要做。

If they say, I'm not sure, don't do it.

如果他们说‘我想慢慢来’，‘今晚不行’，就不要做。

If they say, I want to take things slow, not tonight, don't do it.

即使几分钟后，他们又说‘不，我现在真的想做’。

You know, even if then a couple minutes later, they're like, No, I do want to do it.

等等再看。

Give it some time.

我们不想在灰色地带里玩弄模糊不清的东西。

Like, we don't want to be playing around in the grey area.

另一个我之前提到的灰色地带，是长期关系中的同意问题。

Another gray area, which I mentioned before, is consent in long term relationships.

有一种关于自动同意的误解，尤其是在结婚后。

There's this myth of automatic consent, especially when you're married.

我见过安吉拉，那位基督教性学专家，你可以在Instagram上找她。

And I've seen Angela, the Christian sexpert, look her up on Instagram.

她谈论过，她是一位基督教性学专家。

She talks about, she's like a Christian sexpert.

特别是在宗教圈子里，人们会觉得，妻子有义务与丈夫发生性关系。

And especially in the religious circles, it's like, oh, well, it's a wife's duty to have sex with her husband.

或者因为你们结婚了，这个人就拥有你的身体，你们彼此拥有权利。

Or since you're married, like this person owns your body, you know, like you have a right to each other.

但事实并非如此。

And that is not the case.

不要因为已经过去了一定时间，就觉得你该这么做。

Don't do it because it's been a certain amount of time and you know that you should.

不要因为对方是你的丈夫或妻子，他们说想要，你就勉强自己去做，即使你并不想。

Don't do it because they're your husband or your wife, and they say they want it, even if you don't want to.

即使你处于长期或承诺的关系中，也不意味着同意是自动的。

Just because you're in a long term or committed relationship doesn't mean consent is automatic.

并不意味着你可以为所欲为。

Doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

对方仍然是一个拥有自主权、能决定自己想做什么的人。

That's still a person with their own autonomy to choose what they want to do.

然后，还有一个我之前提到过的灰色地带，就是过去的同意和现在的同意的区别。

And then, you know, a grey area that I also mentioned, past consent versus present.

仅仅因为某人以前同意过某件事，并不意味着他们现在也愿意。

Just because someone said they're down for something before doesn't mean they're down for it now.

举个例子，你曾经做过一次肛交，并不意味着这次你也必须做。

An example of this would be just because you did anal that one time doesn't mean that you have to do anal this time.

这并不意味着，只要你曾经把手指伸进过某人的屁股，就可以在不确认的情况下随时再这么做。

It doesn't mean that it's Okay that at one point you stuck your finger in someone's butt that you can just do it whenever without checking.

另一个例子是，你和伴侣觉得早上用口交唤醒彼此会很性感，对吧？

Other example of this is like, you and your partner think it would be sexy to wake each other up with oral, right?

你们在约会之夜同意了，但第二天早上，你并不确定他们当时的心态如何。

And you agree to it, you know, on date night, But the next morning, you're not 100% sure what headspace they're going to be in.

而用性行为唤醒对方的魅力之一，就在于它的意外性。

And part of the allure of waking somebody up with sex is that it's unexpected.

但在这之间是有区别的，比如你只是用手轻抚他们的大腿，和他们醒来时已经和你融为一体，你知道的。

But there's a difference between, you know, running your hand over their thigh and them waking up inside of you, you know.

我觉得这时候非语言信号就很重要了。

That's where I think the non verbal comes in.

这适用于那些真正了解彼此、彼此尊重的长期伴侣。

And this is for people in committed relationships who really understand each other, really respect each other.

像这样的情况，你们应该放慢节奏，观察对方的非语言信号，或者干脆直接口头确认一下。

Those kinds of things, that's when you move slow and you read the non verbal or you even check-in verbally.

因为有人可能会说，是的，明天早上用口交叫醒我。

Because somebody could say, yeah, wake me up with head tomorrow morning.

但他们醒来后却会说，你他妈在干什么？

And then they wake up and they're like, what the hell are you doing?

我之前居然没说过这一点，但人在睡着时是无法给予同意的。

Can't believe I didn't say this before, but somebody can't consent when they're asleep.

那种‘我们是不是该用这种方式叫醒对方？’的想法。

That kind of like, should we wake each other up with it?

这是一个非常需要慢慢来、深入交谈并不断确认的领域，确保：好吧，你昨天同意了，但今天早上，我们的状态如何？

That's a great area that you really have to take slow and talk extensively about and check-in with each other to make sure like, Okay, you agreed to it yesterday, but it's this morning, like, where are we at?

这可能有点太小众了。

That might have been too niche.

但所有这些小情境，正是你需要真正理解同意基础的地方。

But all of these little situations is where you really need to understand the basis of consent.

即使在最善意、最有诚意、彼此相爱且尊重对方的人之间，这些细微的灰色地带，你仍然必须提出这些问题。

These little grey areas, even in between the most well meaning people with the best intentions, and they love each other, they respect each other, you still have to ask some of these questions.