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《纽约时报》应用里有很多你可能没看到的内容。
The New York Times app has all this stuff that you may not have seen.
方式是
The way
标签位于顶部，包含所有不同的板块。
the tabs are at the top with all of the different sections.
我可以立即导航到符合我当下心情的内容。
I can immediately navigate to something that matches what I'm feeling.
我总是订购游戏。
I order games always.
做迷你游戏。
Doing the mini.
做字谜游戏。
Doing the Wordle.
我喜欢它让我接触到如此多的内容，那些我根本不会想到去新闻应用里寻找的东西。
I loved how much content it exposed me to, things that I never would have thought to turn to a news app for.
这个应用是必不可少的。
This app is essential.
《纽约时报》应用。
The New York Times app.
所有时刻，全部汇聚一处。
All of the times, all in one place.
立即前往 nytimes.com/app 下载。
Download it now at nytimes.com/app.
好了，凯西，今天我们要为《Hard Fork》的听众带来一些不同的内容。
Well, Casey, we've got something different for Hard Fork listeners today.
我们正在推出一篇特别的周二节目，这是一期我们筹备了很长时间的节目。
We are dropping in a special Tuesday episode, and this is an episode that we have been working on for a very long time.
我们非常兴奋能将它带给我们的听众。
We're very excited to bring it to our listeners.
这可能是《Hard Fork》历史上第一期制作时间超过一周的节目，凯文。
It might be, Kevin, the first episode in the history of hard fork that took more than one week to make.
事实上，制作这个节目花了一年多的时间。
In fact, it took more than one year to make.
所以一年多以前，我们开始和节目的老朋友P.J.沃格特聊天，他是很棒的搜索引擎播客的主持人，我们两人都曾上过他的节目。
So more than a year ago, we started chatting with friend of the pod, PJ Vogt, the host of the great search engine podcast, which both of us have been on.
P.J.也上过《硬核》节目。
PJ's been on hard fork as well.
我们开始讨论一个我们三人想一起进行的实验。
And we started talking about this experiment that we wanted to run together, the three of us.
因此，今天的节目讲述了这个实验的结果，它涉及Fetiverse。
And so today's episode describes the results of that experiment, and it involves the Fetiverse.
没错，凯文。
That's right, Kevin.
老实说，这最初只是一个玩笑。
And, honestly, it kind of started as a joke.
你将在节目中听到，但基于那里获得的反响，这引发了一年多的报道、实地会面和嬉笑玩闹，我们非常高兴能向大家呈现这段我们经历过的冒险。
You'll hear it in the episode, but based on the response that they got over there, it kicked off more than a year of reporting and getting together in person, clowning around, and we're just so pleased to be able to present to you today the adventure that we've been on.
是的。
Yes.
我们应该说，搜索引擎在把这一切很好地串联起来方面做了大部分工作。
And we should say search engine did most of the work to string this all together so nicely.
他们制作了这一集。
They produced this episode.
我们把它分享在我们的播客频道中，因为我们觉得你们都会感兴趣。
We are sharing it in our feed because we think you'll all be interested.
但这真的是我过去一两年里亲自参与过的最有趣的实验之一。
But this is really the results of one of the the most fun experiments that I personally have done in the past year or so.
没错。
Yeah.
这确实是一种绝佳的方式。
And it truly is just a great way.
如果你还没听过《搜索引擎》，那就去听听他们做的内容吧，他们是播客领域的大师级人物。
If you have not yet heard search engine to listen to what they do, they are master craftspeople of the podcasting forum.
如果你还没了解过他们，我相信你一定会喜欢他们的内容。
And if you haven't checked them out yet, I think you're really going to enjoy what they do.
是的。
Yes.
很多人说搜索引擎是美国第二好的科技播客，我也同意这一点。
Many people are saying that Search Engine is America's second best technology podcast, and I should say I agree.
好的。
Alright.
那么，为了开启这个故事，凯文，我们把话题交给我们的朋友PJ Boat。
Well, to kick the story off, Kevin, let's kick things over to our good friend, PJ Boat.
你好，欢迎来到新年。
Hello, and welcome to New Year.
搜索引擎对2026年的重大决心是，探索如何真正修复互联网。
Search engine's big resolution for 2026, we are looking at ways the Internet could actually be fixed.
互联网存在的问题众所周知，总结起来都觉得多余。
The problems with our Internet are so well known, it feels dumb to summarize them.
还有谁活着需要我向他们解释，我们2026年的互联网被少数几个社交媒体平台主导，而它们极其擅长通过激发我们最糟糕的本能来攫取我们的注意力？
Like, who is the person left alive who needs me to explain to them that our 2026 Internet is dominated by a few social media platforms who are brilliant at harvesting our attention by appealing to our worst instincts?
我们都明白这一点。
We all know this.
我们都经历过这种事后懊悔：明明没打算花这么多时间，却无意识地刷着 feeds，结果让自己、朋友和整个世界都感觉更糟了。
We've all experienced the kind of gooners remorse after we've spent more time than we meant to, mindlessly thumbing a feed that makes us feel worse about ourselves, our friends, the world.
因此，抱怨这个问题——它在过去十年里只变得越来越糟——已经成了陈词滥调。
So it's cliche to complain about this problem that's only gotten worse for the last decade.
但今年、这周，我们谈论它，是因为我们对解决方案充满好奇，哪怕是一些理想主义的方案。
But this week, this year, we're talking about it because we are curious about solutions, even possibly quixotic ones.
本着这种精神，我想重新回顾一个过去更愤世嫉俗的我，曾经在节目中试图轻描淡写带过的时刻。
And in that spirit, I actually wanna revisit a moment that an earlier, maybe more cynical version of me tried to brush past on our show.
它最早是在2024年5月的节目中首次出现的。
It first came up on air way back in May 2024.
我当时正在采访凯西·牛顿，他是《硬核》播客的联合主持人，也是《平台》的作者。
I was interviewing Casey Newton, cohost of the Hard Fork podcast, the writer behind Platformer.
我们正在进行一场令人沮丧的、再熟悉不过的关于互联网的对话。
We were having a depressingly familiar conversation about the Internet.
我问凯西，是否有什么令人 hopeful 的希望在前方，有什么事情让他感到乐观。
And I asked Casey whether there was anything hopeful around the corner, anything that made him feel optimistic.
我有一个最好的，
I have the best,
对这个问题最糟糕、最宅的答案，PJ，那就是我们必须完成Fetiverse的建设。
worst, dorkiest answer to that question, PJ, which is that we have to finish building the Fetiverse.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yes.
你的意思是，比如，Fetiverse？
You mean, like so, okay, the Fetiverse.
你已经因为我要你谈论这个而感到不快了，这没关系。
You're already so upset that I'm making you talk about this, and that's fine.
你应该这样。
You should be.
我们都应该对必须谈论这个Fetiverse感到沮丧。
We should all be upset that we have to talk about the fetaverse.
谈谈这个Fetiverse，但要用我妈妈能听懂的方式。
Talk about the fetaverse, but in a way that my mom can understand it.
是的。
Yeah.
Fetiverse是一种让人们重新掌控互联网的方式。
So the Fetaverse is a way for people to take back the Internet for themselves.
它让你拥有一个身份，连接线上对你重要的事物，而无需担心必须对抗谷歌算法或Facebook算法。
It's a way to have an identity and connect to other things that are important to you online and just not worry about having to fight through a Google algorithm or a Facebook algorithm.
事实上，如果你愿意，你甚至可以使用自己的算法。
In fact, you could bring your own algorithm if you want to.
我解释Fediverse时已经做得太差了。
I'm already doing such a bad job of explaining what the Fediverse is.
我得承认，凯西在解释这件事时表现得并不好，这对我来说是个警示。
Casey was, I have to admit, doing a not so great job of explaining this thing, which to me was a warning.
凯西非常擅长解释互联网现象。
Casey's very good at explaining Internet phenomena.
如果他在这里都显得吃力，也许这个话题对我们这样的播客来说太深奥了。
If he was flailing here, maybe the topic was just too dense for a podcast like ours.
我不确定该如何处理它。
I wasn't sure how to handle it.
因此，在那一集的节目中，我做出了一个半心半意的承诺：如果我们收到大量听众来信，要求更深入地解释联邦宇宙，我们就去研究一下。
And so in that episode on mic, I made this half hearted promise, which is that if we got lots of listener emails asking for a more in-depth explanation of the Fetaverse, then we would look into it.
我根本没指望会得到什么反馈。
I really was not expecting much feedback at all.
相反，我们收到了前所未有的大量来信，比以往任何话题都多。
Instead, we got so many emails, more than we'd ever gotten on any topic.
仅仅是一个暗示——更好的互联网就在那里，我们只需把它完成——就让人们对这个想法充满了好奇。
Just the whisper of a notion that some better Internet was out there and that all we had to do was finish building it, that was something people were very curious about.
所以那一年，我开始与一些试图构建Fetiverse的人交谈。
So that year, I started talking to some of the people trying to build the Fetiverse.
这些人告诉我的故事是这样的。
The story these people told me went like this.
基本上，尽管他们彼此差异很大，但都对互联网出了什么问题有着共同的看法。
Basically, all of them, as different as they were from one another, had a shared view of what had gone wrong with our Internet.
在他们看来，九十年代，甚至二十一世纪初，我们的互联网真正是一个开放的空间。
The way they saw it, in the nineties, even in the early two thousands, our Internet had truly been an open place.
无限的网站，无限的留言板，由各种背景、持有各种价值观的人们填充，人们可以自由地在自己创建的小社区中生活。
Infinite websites, infinite message boards populated by all sorts of people with all sorts of values, free to live how they wanted in the little neighborhoods they'd made.
如果你想要在那个互联网上换家，比如把邮箱从雅虎换成Gmail，虽然有点烦人，但也不是什么大问题。
If you wanted to move homes on that Internet, say, switch your email from Yahoo to Gmail, It was mildly annoying, but not a huge deal.
但后来社交媒体出现了。
But then social media arrived.
要访问这些平台，通常你需要一个专属账户。
To access those platforms, you usually needed a dedicated account.
一旦你在该账户上开始发帖，你就进入了一场争夺尽可能多粉丝的游戏。
Once you started posting on that account, you were now in a game to build as large a following as possible.
如果你成功积累了一群粉丝，你就永远不会想离开这个平台，因为离开就意味着失去你的受众。
And if you were able to build one, you never wanted to leave that platform since leaving would mean losing your audience.
用户迅速而愉快地涌入了这个更加封闭的互联网。
Users filed quickly and happily into this more closed Internet.
在此过程中，他们将大量权力交给了运营这些平台的巨头。
And along the way, they handed a lot of power to the moguls running it.
这些巨头制定规则，而我们必须忍耐。
The moguls set the rules, and we had to put up with them.
如果我们中有任何人有意见，我们的选择要么是实际上离开互联网，要么更糟的是，在这些平台本身上抱怨，把我们的愤怒转化为那些我们所憎恨之人更多的收入。
If any of us had issues, our choices were to functionally leave the Internet or worse, complain on the very platforms themselves, turning our anger into just a little more money for the people we were angry with.
但去中心化互联网（Fediverse）的架构者们，却有一个更激进的想法。
But the architects of the Fediverse, they had a more radical idea.
他们所持的愿景是，将社交媒体的控制权从马斯克和扎克伯格手中夺回，并将其重新导向一个更加开放的互联网，在那里，任何巨头都不再拥有如今这般巨大的权力。
The vision they held was that they could take control of social media out of the hands of the Musks and Zuckerbergs and reroute it back towards more open Internet, where no mogul would ever have the same kind of power they do now.
这是他们的狂野梦想，他们利用夜晚和周末时间无偿工作，只为构建出联邦宇宙所需的数字基础设施，建立共享协议，制定开放标准，并编写首批联邦式社交媒体平台。
That was their wild dream, and they were working on nights and weekends for no money, just building out the digital infrastructure that a Fetaverse would require, establishing shared protocols, building an open standard, coding the first federated social media platforms.
这一切都极为大胆。
All of this was audacious.
他们的梦想规模宏大，而资源却极其有限。
The scale of their dream combined with their meager resources.
这些人就像在车库里用旧汽车零件打造一艘千年隼号飞船。
These were people trying to build a Millennium Falcon in their garage out of old car parts.
而时至今日，这个联邦宇宙已经存在。
And as of today, that fetaverse, it exists.
你可以访问它。
You can visit it.
如果你去访问，就会发现它的运作方式与你熟悉的互联网截然不同。
And if you do, you'll see that it functions differently from the Internet you're used to.
在我们普通的互联网上，如果你想关注朋友并阅读他们的推文，就必须在X.com——埃隆·马斯克的平台上注册账户。
On our normal Internet, if you wanna follow a friend to read their tweets, you have to sign up for an account on x.com, Elon Musk's platform.
你必须遵守他的规则。
You have to follow his rules.
你必须把私信交给他信任。
You have to trust him with your direct messages.
默认情况下，你看到的内容顺序由他的算法决定。
By default, you're offered posts in the order his algorithm chooses.
在联邦互联网上，如果你的朋友在Mastodon这样的联邦平台上发微博客，你可以从Fetaverse的任何地方关注他们的账号。
On the federated Internet, if you have a friend microblogging on a federated platform like Mastodon, you can follow their account from anywhere in the Fetaverse.
你根本不需要加入Mastodon本身。
You don't ever have to join Mastodon itself.
如果你的主平台被某个情绪化的科技巨头收购，你可以随时离开。
And if your home platform does get bought by some temperamental tech mogul, you can leave.
只要具备一点技术能力，当你迁移到新的联邦互联网平台时，你之前的所有关注者都会跟着你过来。
And given a little technical expertise, when you pop up at your new federated Internet home, you'll have all of the followers you did before.
这令人兴奋。
It is exciting.
但它仍然非常难以理解，更难解释。
It is also still incredibly hard to understand and harder to explain.
如果我想真正理解它的潜力和潜在风险，我必须亲自体验一下Fetaverse。
If I wanted to really get the potential of this and the pitfalls of it, I would need to experience the Fetaverse for myself.
于是我回到了演播室，这次和凯西以及他的播客《Hard Fork》的联合主持人凯文·罗斯一起讨论一项实验。
So I went back into the studio, this time with Casey and Kevin Roos, his cohost on the podcast Hard Fork, to discuss an experiment.
哦，凯西。
Oh, Casey.
嗯。
Yeah.
你好像静音了。
You're muted somehow.
哦，谢天谢地。
Oh, thank god.
这才是播客的理想环境。
This is the ideal setting for a podcast.
别改任何东西。
Don't change a thing.
现在能听到我吗？
Can you hear me now?
能。
Yes.
好了。
There we go.
嗨。
Hi.
我们做到了，伙计们。
We did it, fam.
我们三个
The three of
都是千禧一代，年纪大到会用‘伙计们’这样的词，但也足够老，曾经历过更有趣的互联网时代，见证过它的变化，并相信它还能再次改变。
us were all millennials, old enough to use words like fam, but also old enough to have grown up on a more fun version of the Internet, to have seen it change, and we believed it could still change again.
但如果元宇宙的承诺是明天的乌托邦，我们想知道的是，今天呢？
But if the promise of the Fetaverse was utopia tomorrow, what we wanted to know was, what about today?
而凯文已经有了一个弄清楚的方法。
And Kevin had had an idea about how to find out.
我认为我们应该在元宇宙上创建一个社交媒体平台。
I think we should start a social media platform on the Fetaverse.
在元宇宙上？
In the Fetaverse?
是用on还是in？
Is it on or in?
不管怎样，
Anyway,
我们会一路找到答案。
we'll find out along the way.
但等等。
But wait.
你为什么想要这样？这有什么意义？
Why why do you want to what will be the point?
顺便说一下，我觉得你根本不是在说要创建一个新的社交网络。
And by the way, like, I don't really think you're talking about starting a new social network.
你其实是在说，要在元宇宙里搭建一个服务器。
You're talking about, like, creating a server on the Fetaverse.
对吧？
Right?
比如，一个地方，让其他人——不管是Hardfork的听众还是Search Engine的听众，谁都可以来注册账号，但然后呢？
Like, a place where other people, you know, whether it's listeners to Hardfork or listeners to Search Engine, whoever, they can come and they can create accounts there, but, like, then what?
我可以告诉你一些‘然后呢’。
I can tell you some then what.
对。
Yeah.
然后让PJ来告诉我们‘然后呢’。
Then PJ can tell us then what.
对我来说，现在还处于我们刚刚开始描述这些人所追求的愿景的初期阶段，我甚至都不想用‘报道’这个词。
For me, if right now, you know, very early into our I I don't even wanna say reporting, like, of what the dream these people are trying to describe is.
我的理解是，我们所构建的社交媒体互联网的一个主要问题是，你所使用的平台会引导出被接受的行为方式。
Like, my understanding is that, basically, one of the problems with the social media Internet we've built is that the platform you show up on is going to guide acceptable behavior.
比如，Twitter会让你习惯用标语式表达。
Like, Twitter is gonna make you think in bumper stickers.
Instagram会让你觉得你认识的每个人都很瘦，或者正在度假之类的。
Instagram is gonna make you realize that everyone you know is, like, thinner and on vacation or whatever.
而我们能成为怎样的人、如何彼此互动的界限，都是由这些平台设定的。
And that the the sort of boundaries of what kind of person we can be and how we can interact with each other are set by the platforms.
尽管可能有人对这些平台的运作方式有更健康或不同的想法，但由于你总想去你认识的人都在的地方，这些新想法很少能传播开来。
And that while there might be people with healthier or just different ideas about how these platforms could work, because you wanna go to the place where everyone you know already is, those new ideas don't circulate very often.
因此，我觉得有趣的是，这可以作为一个可检验的实验，而不仅仅是我们作为记者搞的一个噱头：作为一个真正对社交媒体互联网深恶痛绝、几乎像阿米什人一样远离它的人，和你们一起，尝试创建一个规则真正更健康的社交空间，会是什么样子？
And so what I find interesting as a testable game, and not just, like, sort of, like, a stunt that we could do because we're journalists, is, well, as someone who really truly has become almost Amish in my dislike of social media internet, with you guys, what would it be like to try to make a clubhouse that has rules that actually feel healthier?
我们会学到什么，不仅关于——显而易见的是，打造一个优质的互联网非常困难。
And what will we learn about not just, like obviously, it's very hard to make a good Internet.
我认为没人做过这件事。
I don't think anyone's done it.
但问题是，也许比我们更聪明、更有耐心或更有决心的人，能用什么样的工具来实现呢？
But, like, how good are the tools with which someone perhaps smarter, more patient, or more committed than us might be able to do it?
这才是我觉得有趣的地方。
That's what I find interesting about it.
我得说，别让我显得有点讨厌，但是……
I will say, not to be a bit of a hater, but like
哦，
Oh,
好，讨厌鬼。
good I hater.
我想我们会学到，当人们建立各种网络论坛时通常会学到的东西：那就是有各种各样的人。
Think we will learn what most people learn when they set up web forums of all kinds, which is there's a lot of different kinds of people.
有些人很烦人。
Some are annoying.
总有两三个家伙喋喋不休，搞得其他人都很烦，从而破坏了大量有价值的对话。
There's two or three that never stop talking, and then they drive away a lot of good conversation because they infuriate everyone.
对吧？
Right?
有些人只是来试探规则的底线，故意在聊天里发布仇恨言论。
Some people show up just to sort of test the rules and, like, put hate speech in the chat.
没错。
Yeah.
我们知道，当你挂出招牌，说‘嘿，来吧’的时候，会发生什么。
We know what happens when you, like, put out your shingle and and say, hey.
出现了一个新的网络论坛。
There's a new web form
但卡西，这想法太悲观了。
But that is so fundamentally pessimistic, Casey.
我得说
I have to call
把你赶出去
you out
因为这就是我们今天平台的设计方式。
on that because it that is the way that our platforms today are designed.
这些平台要么明确地、要么隐晦地鼓励这种行为。
That is the behavior that they sort of encourage either explicitly or tacitly.
但看看维基百科吧。
But, like, look at Wikipedia.
维基百科是一个集体性的互联网实验，本不该成功的。
Like, Wikipedia is a collective Internet experiment that shouldn't have worked.
如果你在1993年把这个想法画在白板上，人们会说：‘一个每个人都能编辑的百科全书？’
If you just, like, put that idea on a whiteboard in, like, you know, 1993, people would have been like, an encyclopedia that everyone can edit.
这肯定会彻底失败。
That's gonna be a total disaster.
但如今，它却成为了一座丰碑，被人们视为互联网所能成就的典范。
And yet today is, like, a monument and, like, a thing that people hold up as an example of what the Internet can be.
所以我对这一点仍保持一些乐观。
So I maintain some optimism about this.
如果你能设置正确的护栏、界限和指南，培养好这个群体的氛围，它实际上可以变得很好。
If you just put the right guardrails and boundaries and guidelines in place, if you cultivate the vibe of this base, it can actually be good.
对我来说，这件事有趣的地方不在于谁会现身、他们在网络上会说什么，而在于我们可以将我们的服务器连接到什么上？
To me, what is interesting about this is less about who will show up and what will they say on the network, but what can we connect our server to?
对吧？
Right?
对我来说，这就是联邦宇宙的希望。
To me, this is the promise of the the Fediverse.
它并不是说，我们能不能建立一个网络论坛，让人们彼此更友善，只讨论关于民主未来的积极内容？
It's not like could we set up an Internet forum where people are nicer to each other and only said, like, pro social things about the future of democracy?
而是，如果你能将其与一些你认为有趣的新闻出版物连接起来，再链接到像Threads这样的其他社交网络，看到那些只在那儿发布、 elsewhere 从不发布的人的内容，会发生什么？
It's what happens if you're able to link it to some publications that publish news that you think is interesting and link it up to maybe another social network like threads and see content from people who are posting there but nowhere else.
然后是一些下一代的东西，比如，一些出版物自己搭建服务器，直接向这个动态流发布内容，或许还会有其他互动形式。
And then some next generation things, like, they're actually, like, publications that set up their own servers that are sort of publishing directly to this feed and maybe there are some other interactions there.
对我来说，这才是我们真正摆脱当前互联网的方式。
To me, this is how we actually move away from the Internet that we're on.
这并不是说，我们能不能让100个友善的人聚在一间屋子里？
It is not like, can we get 100 nice people in a room together?
我相信我们能做到这一点。
I'm sure we could do that.
但在我们让这100个友善的人聚在一起之后，我们还能向他们展示什么？
It is after we get the 100 nice people in the room, what else can we show them?
它能否比那些由AI为你随机推送的Instagram短视频更有趣？
And can it be more interesting than random Instagram reels that were picked for you by an AI?
因为，如果没有人提出更好的方案，这正是当下和未来的现实。
Because, like, that is the present and the future if nobody else comes up with something better.
我从凯西的话中听到的一部分是，对他而言，互联网最糟糕的前景其实就是我们当前所处的状态，这意味着，哪怕改变现状的机会再渺茫，我们也必须去尝试。
Part of what I heard Casey saying was that to him, the worst case scenario for the Internet might be essentially where we already were, which meant any shot at changing things, even an unlikely one, at this point, you had to try it.
与其甘心做一个愤世嫉俗的人，不如冒险做个傻瓜。
Better to risk being a fool than commit to being a cynic.
所以他当时在二号。
So he was in two.
三名长期批评社交媒体公司的人都将变成社交媒体微巨头。
Three people who had spent years critiquing social media companies would now become social media micro moguls.
我们会打造属于我们自己的小块元宇宙，我认为这不会太难。
We would build our own little piece of the fetiverse, which I thought shouldn't be too hard.
你实际上可以直接访问 Mastodon 网站，使用他们的平台搭建你自己的小型微服务器，他们称之为实例。
You can actually just go to Mastodon, the website, and use their platform to set up your own little micro server, what they call an instance.
很多人在技术上足够娴熟，可以做到这一点。
A lot of people are technologically savvy enough to do that.
而这里的‘很多人’，我其实指的就是凯文，因为我默认凯文·鲁斯会承担大部分工作。
And in this case, by a lot of people, I really just meant Kevin because I assumed Kevin Roos would do most of the work.
关于凯文，你应该知道的是，他热爱尝试新技术。
Kevin, something you should know about him, he loves to experiment with new technology.
他在纽约时报报道科技新闻的工作中，经常这么做。
He does this constantly at his job covering tech at the New York Times.
例如，不久之前，他整整一个月只与人工智能聊天机器人交流，看看它们是否能取代他的朋友。
For instance, not so long ago, he spent a month only communicating with AI chatbots to see if they could replace his human friends.
如今有些科技记者甚至不确定自己是否想尝试人工智能这样的新技术。
There are tech journalists today who are unsure if they even wanna try new technology like AI.
他们觉得这会给自己带来道德污点。
They think it'll get a moral stain on them.
凯文是个爱动手捣鼓的人。
Kevin's a tinkerer.
他相信通过实践来学习。
He thinks by doing.
我们的市场推广计划是什么，他们怎么说的？
What's our go to market plan as they say?
也就是说，我们究竟如何把这东西推出来，获得第一批用户？
Like, how do we actually get this thing out and get our first users?
是的。
Yeah.
我问了Claude。
Well, I asked Claude.
它说第一步包括选择一个易记的名字，并为我们的服务器注册一个域名。
And it said that the first steps include choosing a memorable name and securing a domain for our server.
我们必须制定社区准则，决定服务器是否有特定的主题或话题，确定谁来负责服务器管理与内容审核，然后真正开始做事情，比如搭建服务器、选择托管服务商、设置DNS记录等等。
We have to establish community guidelines and decide if our server will have a specific theme or topic, decide who will handle server administration and content moderation, and then we have to actually start, like, doing stuff like setting up a server and a hosting provider and DNS records and
所有这些。
all of that.
你知道吗，正是在这种时候，我庆幸自己找了一个软件工程师当男朋友。
You know, it's times like this that I'm grateful that I chose a boyfriend who was a software engineer.
我觉得他会对这件事有很大帮助。
I feel like he's gonna be huge for this.
哦，那太好了。
Oh, that's great.
现在我应该坦白一下，我在这方面有一些相关经历：中学时，我是GeoCities上第三大的《吸血鬼猎人巴菲》粉丝网站的网站管理员。
Now I should actually disclose that I have some relevant history here, which is that when I was in middle school, I was the webmaster of the third largest Buffy the Vampire Slayer fan site on GeoCities.
哇。
Wow.
而现在时间快进到今天，另一个吸血鬼正在吸干这个世界的生命力，它就是meta.com。
And now fast forward to today, and there's another vampire sucking the life force out of the world, And it's called meta.com.
而这就是我们登场的原因。
And that's where we come in.
是的。
Yes.
我们现在是猎人了。
We're the slayers now.
我不知道这个说法会不会奏效。
I don't know if that's gonna work.
这就是我们给凯西高薪的原因。
This is why we pay Casey the big bucks.
你要么全力一击，要么干脆别打。
You gotta swing hard or not swing at all.
在我们正式启动之前，还有一个决定要做。
There's one more decision to make before we could get up and running.
我们这个新兴平台，我们这片小小的元宇宙切片，需要一个名字。
Our fledgling platform, our little slice of the fetiverse, it needed a name.
凯西有一个提议。
Casey had a pitch.
我有一个想法，这个想法更偏向于其中一个播客，而不是两个都适用，我们可以叫它‘Forkiverse’。
So I have one idea that I would say is sort of very particular to one podcast as opposed to being really particular to both podcasts, but we could call it the Forkiverse.
我的意思是，我尝试过融合两个名字，想出了‘search fork’或者‘hard engine’。
I mean, I tried to do a a blended name and came up with search fork or hard engine.
Hard engine。
Hard engine.
‘Hard engine’听起来像是属于另一个互联网的东西。
Hard engine sounds like it belongs on a different Internet.
那是在凯西的无痕浏览标签页里。
That's that's in Casey's incognito tab.
我可以接受Fork Averse这个名字。
I could live with fork averse.
它不仅让人联想到硬分叉，还像是在从互联网中分叉出来。
It also feels like it feels like it's not just reference to a hard fork, but, like, you're forking off
对。
Yeah.
互联网。
The Internet.
没错。
Exactly.
所以我们有了一个想法。
So we had an idea.
我们有了一个名字。
We had a name.
我们准备好了，可以开始了。
We were ready to start.
如果我们尝试构建互联网的一部分，我们会学到什么？
What would we learn trying to build our piece of the Internet?
广告后我们就会知道答案。
We'll find out after these ads.
我是娜塔莉·基切罗夫，作为《纽约时报》墨西哥城分社社长，我开始调查锡那罗亚贩毒集团和芬太尼的生产。
I'm Natalie Kitcheroff, and as the Mexico City bureau chief for The New York Times, I started looking into the Sinaloa cartel and fentanyl production.
我想弄清楚为什么这种毒品导致如此多的美国人死亡。
I was trying to understand why this drug was killing so many Americans.
为了做到这一点，我知道我们必须深入这个犯罪组织内部。
And to do that, I knew that we had to get inside of this criminal organization.
我们花了数月时间，多次前往锡那罗亚，才最终进入这座芬太尼实验室。
It took us months and months of work and multiple trips to Sinaloa to actually get into this fentanyl lab.
报道过程中存在诸多风险，但人们得以真正深入了解制造这种毒品的组织。
There were a lot of risks involved in the reporting, but people got to have a real inside view into the organization that is making this drug.
他们通过照片、视频和采访，亲眼目睹了整个生产过程。
And they saw the process with photos and videos and interviews.
我们能够开展这样的工作，得益于我们的订户。
This is the kind of work that we're able to do because of our subscribers.
如果您想订阅，请前往 nytimes.com/subscribe。
If you'd like to subscribe, go to nytimes.com/subscribe.
喂？
Hello?
喂？
Hello?
你还能听到我吗，PJ？
Can you still hear me, PJ?
我还能听到你。
I can still hear you.
那是《梦想成真》。
That's Dreams are coming true.
你还能听到我吗？
Can you still hear me?
是的。
Yes.
这是几个月后的事了。
This was a few months later.
正如我所期望的，凯文·罗斯已经成为我们的首席技术官，他来汇报他所开展的工作。
Kevin Roos, as I'd hoped, had become our chief technology officer, and he was here to report on the work he'd been doing.
我当时在布鲁克林的录音室。
I was in the studio in Brooklyn.
凯文和凯西从《纽约时报》旧金山办公室连线。
Kevin and Casey were connecting from the New York Times San Francisco office.
我去了录音室。
I came down to the studio.
录音室在哪里？
Where's the studio?
是在《纽约时报》旧金山分社的一个壁橱里吗？那个壁橱是为伊兹拉·克莱因建的，但他从来没用过？
It's in a closet in the New York Times San Francisco bureau that was built for Ezra Klein that he never once used?
我曾经问过他这件事，他回答说：等等。
And I once asked him about it, and he was like, wait.
他们建了一个演播室？
They built a studio?
凯文，你为我们准备了什么
Kevin, what do you
有什么要给我们看的吗？
have for us?
自从我们上次会面以来，我们搭建了一个Mastodon服务器。
So since our last meeting, we have built a Mastodon server.
真的吗？
Really?
至于‘我们’，我说的是我；至于‘搭建’，我的意思是通过一家托管服务订购的。
And by we well, I and by built, I mean ordered from, like, a managed hosting service.
我本人并没有实际搭建任何东西。
I did not personally build anything here.
我们这里说的‘我们’，主要指的是AI，真的吗？
And by we, I mostly mean AI because Really?
这个项目让我有点望而却步。
I was a little bit daunted by this project.
所以我一直在测试这个操作员工具。
And so I've been testing this operator thing.
你听说过这个吗？
Have you heard about this?
我们应该说，去年一月我们聊过这个，但在AI发展的节奏下，那感觉就像大约两个世纪前了。
We were talking, I should say, last January, which in the pace of AI development feels like approximately two centuries ago.
但不管怎样，那时候OpenAI的操作员还是个新东西。
But anyway, that long ago week, OpenAI's operator was new.
是的。
Yeah.
操作员是OpenAI的新功能，AI可以真正为你做事情，但通常做得并不好。
Operator is OpenAI's new thing where the AI can actually, like, do stuff for you, but it doesn't usually do it very well.
它能接管你的鼠标并输入内容，但目前还不太行——这是我了解到的情况。
It can take over your mouse and it can type stuff in, but, like, it's not so good yet This is my understanding.
我的理解错了吗？
Is that understanding wrong?
我觉得不是这样。
I think that's no.
我觉得这个理解基本是正确的。
I think that's a mostly correct understanding.
不过在这种情况下，它做得非常好。
Although, in this case, it did do this extremely well.
所以我跟它说了我们的项目，让它去帮我买个域名，搭建一个完整的Mastodon服务器，并配置所有设置。
So I I told it about our project, and I said, go out, buy me a domain name, set up a whole Mastodon server, and configure all the settings.
嗯。
Yeah.
你把信用卡信息告诉了AI？
You gave the AI your credit card?
PJ，我们这儿已经活在未来了。
PJ, we're living in the future out here.
我们对AI的信任超过了对其他人类的信任。
We we we trust AIs more than other humans.
所以我给了它这个任务，然后过了二十分钟左右回来，它已经完成了我要求的大部分工作。
So I gave it this task, and then I came back, like, twenty minutes later, and it had done most of what I asked it for.
我仍然需要输入一些内容，但我们现在拥有域名theforkiverse.com，第一年只需1美元。
I still needed to, like, you know, input some stuff, but we now own the domain name, theforkiverse.com, that was available for $1 for the first year.
然后我猜费用会上涨到大约7000美元左右。
Then I assume it goes up to, like, $7,000 or something.
而且我们还在一个叫masto.host的平台上注册了账户，好的。
And we also have an account on something called masto.host Okay.
这是一个完全托管的Mastodon托管服务。
Which is a fully managed Mastodon hosting service.
所以这基本上就像是社交媒体网站的Squarespace。
So it's basically, you know, it's like Squarespace, but for social media sites.
于是我为我们购买了一个每月89美元的计划。
And so I bought us a plan, $89 a month.
我会把这笔费用报给搜索引擎的财务部门。
I will be expensing that to the search engine accounting department.
我希望如此。
I should hope so.
它为我们提供了以下功能。
And it gives us the following things.
极高的联邦容量。
Very high federation capacity.
好的。
Okay.
50个处理线程。
50 processing threads.
好的。
Okay.
40千兆字节的数据库。
40 gigabyte database.
好的。
Okay.
400千兆字节的媒体存储。
400 gigabyte media storage.
我们整个社交网络只有400千兆字节的媒体存储空间。
We only have 400 gigabytes of media storage for our entire social network.
只需说在Forkiver服务器上不鼓励上传图片。
Just say that uploading images is discouraged on the Forkiver server.
他们只需要非常
They just have to be very
小。
small.
不要4K。
No four k.
不要四K。
No four k.
不行。
No.
不要四K。
No four k.
它可以容纳约2000名用户。
And it can hold an estimated 2,000 users.
好的。
Okay.
这是最大的套餐。
Was the largest plan.
我本可以选择月球、行星、恒星或星座套餐，但我选了星系套餐。
I could have gone with the moon, planet, star, or constellation plans, but I went with the galaxy plan.
所以我们现在用的就是这个。
So that's what we got.
所以，银河计划为我们提供了一个社交网络，其规模类似于九十年代末的留言板。
So the Galaxy plan gives us a social media network that in size kind of resembles like a late nineties message board.
是的。
Yes.
是的。
Yes.
但它可以连接到所有其他社交媒体网络。
But it can connect to all the other social media networks.
这就是所谓的高联邦容量之类的吗？
That's the high federation capacity or whatever?
没错。
Exactly.
这里需要澄清一点是，我们当然只能连接到其他开放的联邦平台。
One clarification here is that, of course, we can connect only to other open federated platforms.
因此，Fork Averse 用户可以看到 Mastodon 或 Flipboard 等开放平台的帖子，但无法关注 X 或 Instagram 等封闭系统上的用户。
So a Fork Averse user can see posts from open platforms like Mastodon or Flipboard, but can't follow someone on a closed system like X or Instagram.
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无论如何，我们拥有很高的联邦能力。
Anyway, we had a high federation capacity.
这意味着Forkiverse可以轻松与其他联邦平台交换流量。
Meaning, the Forkiverse can easily exchange traffic with other federated platforms.
我觉得我们正在回归到我最后一次感到纯粹快乐的互联网版本。
I feel like we're rebooting to the last version of the Internet that I felt like uncomplicated joy about.
所以我对这个现状很满意。
So I'm fine with this.
这就是梦想。
That's the dream.
这就是希望。
That's the hope.
这正是我们正在努力实现的目标。
That's what we're trying to do.
向后走。
Go backwards.
另外，我只是想说，我也尝试用操作员来做一些酷炫的事情。
Also, I just wanna say, I tried to use operator to do cool things too.
当我尝试订购杂货时，它竟然想把货物发送到我下单的那家杂货店。
And when I tried to order groceries, it tried to send them to the grocery store that I was ordering from.
这就是我用AI做到的全部了。
So that's how far I got with the AI.
所以我想邀请你们两人在浏览器中打开一个新标签页
So I would like to invite you both to open a new tab in your browser
好的。
Okay.
然后访问 forkiverse.com。
And go to the forkiverse.com.
好的。
Okay.
我到了 forkaverse。
I'm at the forkaverse.
哦，所以你只是让我去 forkaverse.com？
Oh, so you want me just go to the forkaverse.com?
对。
Yeah.
我明白了。
I see.
哇哦。
Woah.
我刚收到一个警告，说我的连接不安全，攻击者可能在试图窃取我的信息。
I just got a warning saying that my connection is not private, and that attackers might be trying to steal my information.
好的。
Okay.
这个我帮不了你。
Well, I can't you with that.
不行。
Nope.
我们得问问运营商这件事。
We just gotta ask operator about that.
我还收到一个错误消息，说我觉得《纽约时报》被屏蔽了。
I also got an error message that said that my I think the New York Times We're blocked.
《纽约时报》的防火墙正在阻止我们访问Forkiverse。
The New York Times firewall is blocking us from going to the Forkiverse.
所以在这里的独立媒体中，没有任何规则，你可以为所欲为，我就在Forkiverse上。
So out here in independent media where there's no rules and you could do whatever you want, I'm on the Forkiverse.
你想让我告诉你我看到了什么吗？
Do want me to tell you what I'm seeing?
好的，请说。
Yes, please.
好的。
Okay.
首先，有一个不错的小小图形。
So first of all, there's a nice little graphic.
我不确定这是Mastodon的图形还是Forkiverse的图形，但上面有点动漫风格，有一群大象。
I don't know if that's a Mastodon graphic or a Forkiverse graphic, but there's, like it's sorta anime, there's, like, a bunch of elephants.
它说forkiverse.com是你可以用来参与Fetaverse的众多独立Mastodon服务器之一。
It says that forkiverse.com is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the Fetaverse.
然后我意识到一件以前从未见过的事：就像你在任何20个Twitter类平台上看的动态流一样，但这里什么都没有。
And then the thing that I realized I'd never seen before is that it's like a there's the feed that you would see on any of the 20 Twitter clothes or whatever, but there's nothing on it yet.
它干净得像新的一样。
It's pristine.
它就像是帖子。
It's like posts.
这些是今天在社交网络上获得关注的帖子。
These are posts from across the social web that are getting traction today.
没有帖子。
No posts.
话题标签。
Hashtags.
这些是正在走红的标签。
These are hashtags that are getting traction.
没有任何标签。
No hashtags.
新闻。
News.
这些是新闻报道。
These are the news stories.
现在没有任何热门话题。
Nothing is trending right now.
这就像是早晨下雪时的社交媒体。
It's like in the morning when it snows, the social network right now.
是的。
Yeah.
看着这一切感觉如何？
And how does looking at that feel?
还不算有压力。
Not yet stressful.
只是很有趣。
It's just interesting.
很难想象曾经有一天，人们打开推特时，还没人发过任何内容。
This is what like, it's weird to think there was a day where, like, they turned on Twitter and nobody had posted yet.
看到一个尚未被填满的宇宙，感觉还挺酷的。
Like, it's kinda cool to see an unfilled universe.
能这样纯粹地观看，没有虚假信息、没有有毒的仇恨言论或欺凌，真是太美好了。
It's so beautiful to just see it, you know, without any any misinformation, any any sort of toxic hate speech or bullying.
是的。
Yeah.
很多人说这是理想的社交媒体。
Many people are saying this is the ideal social network.
对吧？
Right?
确实如此。
It really is.
非常宁静。
It's very zen.
没有任何活跃用户。
There's zero active users.
我并不觉得对它上瘾。
I don't feel addicted to it.
我从来都不觉得有必要去查看它。
I don't feel compelled to check it really ever.
我们网站这种纯净的空旷状态，显然，每个社交媒体平台最初都是如此纯净的。
The pristine emptiness of our site, obviously, every social media platform has begun unsullied.
但我对Forkverse的真正期望是，如果真有人来使用它，谁知道呢，但假如他们来了，阻止它变成其他平台那样命运的，或许正是它并不依赖算法。
But my real hope with the Forkverse, if anyone did show up to use it, and who knew, but if they did, what might stop it from becoming what every other platform had become was that it wasn't particularly algorithmic.
它下面没有人工智能驱动的机器大脑，不断试图向用户推荐令人上瘾的内容。
There was no AI powered machine mind underneath it, constantly trying to suggest addictive content to users.
我们曾拥有一个并非设计成让人上瘾的社交媒体。
We had a social media that was not designed to make everyone miserably addicted to it.
我不愿说我对它抱有希望，但至少我感到好奇。
I don't wanna say I was hopeful, but I was at least curious.
PJ，我觉得你应该试着注册一个账号。
PJ, I think you should try to create an account.
好的。
Okay.
创建账号。
Create account.
我可以从我的手机上看看。
I could look at it from my on my phone.
我们来这么做吧。
Let's do that.
我们来使用
Let's use
你们都在玩手机的时候，我正在黑入主系统。
While our you guys go on your phones, I'm on We're hacking the mainframe.
用户名。
Username.
我想试试看PJ的账号是不是被占用了。
I'm gonna try to see if PJ's taken.
好的。
Alright.
输入我的邮箱。
Put my email.
我用的密码和所有其他地方一样，大家都懂的。
Same password I used for everything that everybody knows.
这肯定不会出错。
That won't go wrong.
我已阅读并同意隐私政策。
I've read and agree to privacy policy.
我不会读隐私政策。
I'm not gonna read the privacy policy.
好吧。
Okay.
它说，我现在收到了一个确认链接在
It says, now I have an a confirmation link in
我的收件箱里。
my inbox.
砰砰砰。
Pop pop pop.
我的申请正在等待工作人员审核。
My application is pending review by the staff.
可能需要一些时间。
May take some time.
工作人员。
The staff.
你为我们雇了员工吗？
Did you hire us a staff?
我的操作员可能为我们雇了员工。
My operator might have hired us a staff.
我不确定。
I'm not sure.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
有没有一堆
Are there a
AI通过购买帖子来做决定？
bunch of AIs deciding by buying
一个帖子？
a post?
它让我们做一些事情来帮助我们处理你的注册。
It made it makes us do a little to help us process your registration.
写一点关于你自己以及为什么你想在forkiverse.com上注册账号。
Write a bit about yourself and why you want an account on the forkiverse.com.
谁在做决定？
Who's deciding?
我们正在为自己的社交网络进行选拔。
Us audition for our own social network.
我只是说一下
I'm just saying
我想测试一下。
I want to test it.
我说这是我的该死的服务器。
I'm saying this is my goddamn server.
好的。
Okay.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
它显示正在等待我们的工作人员审核。
It's saying pending review by our staff.
好的。
Okay.
那么，工作人员是谁？
Well, who's the staff?
凯西，你是工作人员吗？
Casey, are you the staff?
我不是工作人员。
I'm not the staff.
所以，凯文，我们不知道谁在管理你搭建的这个社交网络？
So we don't know who's in charge of the social network you built, Kevin?
嗯，我这是打个比方。
Well, I This is a metaphor.
澄清一下，我没有搭建这个。
To be clear, I did not build this.
这是自主构建的。
This was autonomously built.
当时太早了，事情就已经变得一团糟。
It was so early, and things were already going so wrong.
机器已经崛起。
The machines had risen.
凯文私下同意去弄清楚他的氛围编码把谁任命为我们联邦平台的负责人。
Kevin agreed offline to figure out who his vibe coding had put in charge of our federated platform.
我们决定利用这段时间来明确我们在新闻网站上的角色。
We decided to use our time to figure out our roles on the news site.
凯西必须担任版主，因为他的网站平台完全围绕着社交媒体版主那些无能的决策。
Casey had to be the moderator since his website platformer is all about the feckless decisions by social media moderators.
凯文是首席技术官。
Kevin was CTO.
我是增长官。
I was the growth officer.
我们制定了一项 moderation 政策，内容借鉴了 Casey 的平台通讯，而 Kevin 离开去解决剩下的细节问题。
We put together a moderation policy, which we cribbed from Casey's platformer newsletter, and Kevin went away to iron out the remaining wrinkles.
现在是时候打开 fetiverse 的大门了。
It was now time to open the doors of the fetiverse.
在短暂休息之后。
That after a short break.
欢迎回到节目。
Welcome back to the show.
三个月后，Kevin、Casey 和我再次见面。
Kevin, Casey, and I met three months later.
这次我们在旧金山《纽约时报》办公室当面会面。
This time in person at the San Francisco New York Times office.
先生们。
Gentlemen.
你好。
Hello.
欢迎。
Welcome.
谢谢。
Thank you.
欢迎来到Forkiverse董事会的首次会议。
To the first ever convening of the Forkiverse board of directors.
我这里很好。
Good here.
很高兴来到这里。
Good to be here.
我知道上次我们遇到了一些技术问题，但我做了一些调整和改进，能帮我们度过这个难关。
Now, I know that we ran into some technical hiccups last time, but I've made some tweaks and changes that are gonna get us through this rough patch.
我们已经获得了《纽约时报》防火墙系统的白名单权限，因此你们现在可以从我们这里的办公室访问forkiverse.com。
We have been whitelisted by the New York Times Firewall system, so you can now go to the forkiverse.com from our offices here.
等等。
Wait.
你们
Do you
访问每一个新网站都需要单独申请许可吗？
guys have to get individual permission to go to every new website?
是的。
Yes.
新网站。
New website.
是的。
Yes.
而且这个过程需要三个月才能确定是否通过。
And it's a three month process to see if that happens.
不用。
No.
非常快。
It was very quick.
IT团队的一些非常友善的人帮我把那个网站加入了白名单。
Some very nice people on the IT team helped me get that whitelisted.
但基本上，如果系统之前没见过这个URL，那就得走流程。
But basically, it's like if it's never seen the URL before Yeah.
就像说：等等，等等，老兄。
It's like, woah, woah, buddy.
哇哦。
Wow.
意思是，我们得先好好查查你。
Like, we gotta check you out first.
好的。
Okay.
但这个已经被《纽约时报》批准过了。
But this has been New York Times approved.
是的。
Yes.
所以我们已经进入系统了，我把我们的规则编程到了用户注册账户时会看到的那个部分。
So we are in the system, and I have programmed our rules into the thing that you get when you sign up for an account.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我已经开始设置我的信息流，我们正朝着打造一个完整的社交网络迈进。
And I have started setting up my feed, and we're on our way to having our own full fledged social network.
你能感受到东西吗？
Do you feel things?
嗯。
Yeah.
所以我感受到了你上次提到的那种白板般的感觉，就像这是纯粹的白雪。
So I I felt that sort of, like, blank slate feeling that you talked about last time where it's like, this is this is pure snow.
然后我开始用各种内容填充我的信息流，现在我不再有那种感觉了。
And then I started filling up my feed with things, And now I don't feel that anymore.
现在我觉得，哦，又来了。
Now I feel like, oh, here we go again.
等等。
Wait.
那你关注了谁呢？哦，因为这是去中心化的。
And who are you following on our oh, because it's federated.
是的。
Yes.
这是因为这是一个去中心化的社交网络，我们不需要对方在Forkiverse上注册账户，就能把他们的内容放进我们的动态里。
So this is the thing is because this is a federated social network, no one has to have an account on the Forkiverse for us to put their stuff in our feeds.
为了彻底解释一下这一点，因为这很令人困惑，但非常重要。
Just to step in here to fully explain this, because it's confusing and it's important to understand.
在普通的社交媒体上，如果凯文第一次登录Instagram，他只能看到Instagram的帖子。
On normal social media, if Kevin had logged on to Instagram for the first time, he'd only have seen Instagram posts.
看不到任何来自Twitter的内容。
Nothing from Twitter.
也看不到任何来自TikTok的内容。
Nothing from TikTok.
大多数社交媒体都是这样运作的，这背后有很好的商业原因。
Most social media works like that, and there's a good business reason why.
Instagram 希望垄断 Instagram 的内容，因此平台是封闭的。
Instagram wants a monopoly on Instagram content, so the site is closed.
你必须在平台上注册才能关注那里的用户。
You have to sign up on the platform to follow the people there.
但联邦制网站的设计方式并非如此。
But federated websites aren't designed that way.
它们是开放的。
They're open.
因此，作为 Forkiverse 的第一个成员，Kevin 从一开始就可以关注任何在其他联邦制社交媒体平台上注册的用户。
So Kevin, the very first member of the Forkiverse, could already follow anybody who signed up for an account on any other federated social media platform.
他可以关注 Lemmy（类似 Reddit）上的用户，也可以关注 Pixel Fed（类似 Instagram）上的用户。
He could follow people on Lemmy, which is like Reddit, people on Pixel Fed, which is like Instagram.
他甚至可以关注 Threads——Meta 的 Twitter 克隆平台上的某些账号。
He could even follow some accounts on threads, Meta's Twitter clone.
在Forkiverse的第一天，它的首位用户就已经拥有了完整的动态信息流。
Here on the Forkiverse's very first day, its first user already had a full feed.
所以当我访问forkiverse.com时，我看到的东西基本上就像旧版的Twitter。
So when I go on to the forkiverse.com, I see something that looks basically like the old Twitter.
我看到一个按时间倒序排列的动态，来自我关注的账号，包括你们两位，但也包括许多其他账号。
I see a reverse chronological feed of posts from accounts that I follow, including the two of you, but also a bunch of other accounts.
我看到了Techmeme。
And I see Techmeme.
我看到的是一个关于科技新闻的热门新闻聚合平台。
I see Which is a sort of popular news aggregator about tech news.
我看到了The Verge，这个科技新闻网站。
I see The Verge, the tech news website.
我看到了404 Media，还有其他一些我一直在关注的人。
I see four zero four Media, a couple of other folks that I've been following.
但基本上，只要你拥有任何兼容服务器上的Mastodon账号，现在就可以把这些内容直接添加到你的动态中。
But, basically, if you have a Mastodon account on any compatible server, you can now add that stuff right to your feed.
那你关注了哪些账号来获取误导信息和AI垃圾内容？
And what are you following to guide a lot of misinformation and AI slop?
我还没关注太多账号。
I I haven't followed that many accounts yet.
我想我现在关注了六个，但我建议我们都登录自己的Forkiverse账号。
Think I'm at six, but I would invite us all to log in to our Forkiverse account.
网址再次是，当然
URL again is, of course
theforkiverse.com。
theforkiverse.com.
我登录了。
I'm in.
好的。
Okay.
海瑟？
Heather?
凯文，我关注你了。
Kevin, I'm following you back.
哎呀。
Aw.
谢谢。
Thanks.
哦，我刚收到通知。
Oh, I just got the notification.
有点噪音。
Had a little noise.
我们已经到达了Forkiverse。
We'd reached the Forkiverse.
标志具有九十年代的像素风格，彩虹色，一只叉子飞越在施工标志上方。
The logo had a nineties pixel aesthetic, rainbow colors, a soaring fork flying over an under construction sign.
除此之外，它确实看起来像任何基于信息流的社交媒体平台。
Other than that, it really did have the familiar look of any feed based social media platform.
还没人到达。
Nobody had arrived yet.
但当我们加入时，Mastodon 的协议已经在推荐其他 Fetaverse 部分的关注账号。
But as we joined, Mastodon's protocol was already suggesting accounts to follow on other parts of the Fetaverse.
其他一些最受欢迎的 Mastodon 账号包括英国演员斯蒂芬·弗莱。
Some of the other most popular Mastodon accounts include Stephen Fry, The British actor.
英国演员。
British actor.
天啊。
God.
天啊。
God.
哦，就像那个老的 Twitter 账号 god
Oh, like, the old Twitter account god
还是不同的人在扮演他的神？
or different person cosplaying his god?
我不知道这是谁的账号，但它有14.4万粉丝。
I have no idea whose whose account it is, but it has a 144,000 followers.
奥斯维辛纪念馆，这个我可不敢开玩笑。
The Auschwitz Memorial, not gonna make a joke about that one.
当时有一段停顿，
Was a pause where
有人本可以
someone could have
闯进来并冒一些职业风险。
wandered in and risked some career points.
去吧，凯西。
Go for it, Casey.
这些人习惯了应对严峻的经历。
Those people are used to dealing with dire experiences.
然后他们说，我们为什么不在Fetaverse上设立一个账号呢？
Then they said, why don't we set up on the Fetaverse?
能有多糟呢？
How bad could it be?
你去做了，这就是我喜欢你的地方。
You went for it, and I and that's what I love about you.
纳粹不会来奥斯维辛。
The Nazis aren't gonna come to Auschwitz.
奥斯维辛必须应对纳粹。
Auschwitz has to cover the Nazis.
是的。
Yeah.
去社交媒体吧。
Go to social media.
没错。
Exactly.
美国宇航局有一个非常受欢迎的Mastodon账号。
NASA has a very popular Mastodon account.
等狗狗币知道这件事就晚了。
Wait till Doge finds out about that.
埃隆·马斯克的私人飞机也在上面，因为它被从X平台踢出去了。
And Elon Musk's jet is also on here because it got kicked off of x.
哦，这些是想追踪的人
Oh, these are people who wanna track
埃隆·马斯克的追踪账号，用于追踪埃隆·马斯克私人飞机的动向。
Elon Musk's The tracker account that tracks the movements of Elon Musk's private jet.
这很有趣。
It's interesting.
它确实让你看到有哪些人误入了互联网的这个小角落。
It does kinda give you a view onto who has wandered into this little part of the Internet.
就像你说的，这有点像是推特的不满者。
It's like, as you said, it's sort of Twitter discontents.
老实说，这一系列账号描绘了一种典型的千禧一代互联网用户。
It's honestly, the that suite of accounts describes a kind of normie millennial Internet user.
你明白我的意思吗？
Do you know what I mean?
就像，
Like,
这很有趣。
it's interesting.
嗯。
Mhmm.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
确实感觉这个年龄段的人，大概是35岁以上，没错。
It does feel like the the age band is, like, 35 and up Yes.
在Mastodon上。
On Mastodon.
是的。
Yes.
我注意到的一件事是，因为我花了一些时间在Mastodon上，试图弄清楚该关注谁，发现这么多内容都是人们试图重新找回旧版Twitter的魔力。
The the thing that I have noticed, because I've been spending a little bit of time with Mastodon in general, trying to figure out who to follow, is that so much of it is just people trying to, like, recapture the magic of old Twitter.
是的。
Yeah.
很多内容确实给人一种非常怀旧的感觉。
Like, a lot of it just does feel, like, very backward looking.
如果我们都能聚在一个新地方，像以前那样发帖，那感觉又会像夏令营一样。
And, like, if we could all just get together on a new place and post like we used to, it could be like summer camp again.
是的。
Yeah.
而且
And
我觉得我们需要一个全新的东西。
in this way where I'm like, I think like we need a new thing.
是的。
Yes.
我觉得，接下来出现的东西必须与之前的不同。
Like, I think whatever comes next has to feel different than what came before.
这说得通吗？
Does that make sense?
你对此完全正确，我实际上认为这可能是Fetaverse难以普及的最重要原因之一：它更多地根植于怀旧情绪，以及千禧一代对互联网初期体验的想象，而非对当今世界真实需求的自然回应。
You you're totally right about this, and I actually think this is maybe one of the biggest reasons why the Fetaverse might not take off is that it does feel like it is rooted more in nostalgia and, like, the way that millennials thought of their first experiences of the Internet than it does, like, an organic response to what the world needs right now.
尽管如此，我认为世界现在确实需要类似的东西，但我认为这两个想法在某种程度上是相互矛盾的。
That said, I do think the world needs something like this right now, but I think those two ideas are somewhat intentioned.
我同意你的观点，Fetaverse要想兴起，必须给人一种全新的感觉，并且在某些非常明显的方式上优于以往的一切。
And I agree with you that for the Fetaverse to take off, it is going to have to feel new and obviously better than what came before in some very obvious way.
是的。
Yeah.
这对我来说很有道理。
That makes sense to me.
我会在这一集里再说80遍这种话。
Like, I I'll say this, like, 80 more times in the episode.
我不太喜欢社交媒体。
I don't like social media very much.
但每当我白天散步时，突然冒出一个有趣的想法，就会想起以前用Twitter的时候，把有趣的想法发出去，看看别人是不是也觉得好笑。
But as soon as I walk around during the day and a funny thought occurs to me, and I remember what it used to be like to have Twitter and to, like, post the funny thought and see if other people thought it was funny.
现在有了这种想法，我就直接发短信给朋友。
Now when I have that, I just text it to a friend.
因为只要我打开手机，就会看到Blue Sky，里面全是疯疯癫癫的人。
Because if I open up my phone, there's blue sky, which is full of a bunch of stark raving.
还有Threads，简直是世界上最无聊的社交媒体。
There's threads, which is, like, the most boring social media network in the world.
还有Twitter，里面满是疯子。
There's Twitter, which is filled with stark raving lunatics.
至于有趣的句子，就这些了。
And then, like, that's it as far as, like, witty sentences goes.
所以我认为反感叉子的人的魅力在于，好吧。
And so I think the appeal of the fork averse is, okay.
如果你不喜欢现有的社交媒体，那就自己建一个。
If you don't like the social media that exists, build your own.
你不需要用人来填充它，因为你可以通过连接人们为自己打造的小星球来互动。
You don't have to fill it with people because you can connect to existing little planets people have built for themselves.
对。
Right.
就是这样。
That's that.
对吧？
Right?
所以我认为这是对联邦宇宙的理想化论点。
So I think that's, like, the idealistic argument for the Fedaverse.
我认为还有一个实际的理由，那就是如果你所在的服务器制定了你不同意的规则，你可以打包离开，而不会失去所有的关注者和动态。
I think there's a practical argument for it too, which is that if you are part of a server that does make some kind of rule that you disagree with, you can pack up and move without losing all of your followers and all of your feeds.
就像你离开时可以把你的东西一起带走。
Like, you can take your stuff with you when you leave.
是的。
Yeah.
我能说一下吗
And can I just
我想说，我亲身体验过两次，但经历却截然不同？
say, I have lived this experience twice and had very different experiences?
第一次是因为我觉得X平台太糟糕了，所以离开了。
One was when I left X because I thought this is a horrible place.
我再也无法合理地留在这里了。
I cannot justify being here anymore.
当时我有二十多万粉丝。
At the time, I had more than 200,000 followers.
我花了十年时间才建立起这些粉丝。
I had worked to build them up over a decade.
这曾是我业务的重要组成部分。
It was a huge part of my business.
这是我推广我的实际作品并寻找新订阅者的方式。
This is how I would promote my actual work and find new subscribers.
我选择了离开，因为我真的再也无法继续待在这里了。
And I walked away from it because I was like, I truly cannot be here anymore.
这给我带来了经济上的损失。
And there was a a financial cost to me.
这是我能够承担并且甘愿承担的代价，但它确实让我花了钱。
It was one I could bear and was happy to bear, but it cost me money.
明白吗？
Okay?
我别无选择。
I had no recourse.
然后几年后，我离开了Substack，因为它的多项政策决定是我无法接受的，于是我离开了。
Then couple years or later, I left Substack because it had also made a bunch of policy decisions that I decided that I could not live with, and I left it.
Substack 不能说不。
Substack could not say, no.
不行。
No.
不行。
No.
你不能带走你的邮件列表。
You can't take your email.
我的意思是，也许他们本可以尝试，但 Substack 的一个前提就是在这方面会更开放一些。
I mean, I guess maybe they they could have tried, but one of the premises of Substack was we're gonna be a little bit more open in this regard.
如果你因为任何原因决定离开，你完全可以。
And if for whatever reason you decide you want to leave, you can.
所以我离开了。
And so I did.
我带着近二十万个邮件地址转移到了一个全新的平台，并重新建立了起来。
And I took almost 200,000 email addresses to a brand new platform, and I set up.
对于我的订阅者来说，就好像什么都没发生过一样，我继续像往常一样在平台上写作。
And for my subscribers, it was as if nothing had ever happened, and I just kept on writing platformer as normal.
所以，这正是Fetaverse的梦想：如果你像我一样是个爱闹剧的人，总是随时准备离开平台，你实际上可以做到不毁掉自己的生活。
So that is the dream of a Fetaverse is if you are a big drama queen like me and you're always leaving platforms at the drop of a hat, you can actually do it in a way that doesn't destroy your life.
首先，我觉得你应该承诺永远不会离开Funkiverse。
First of all, I think you should promise you'll never leave the Funkiverse.
哦，我不能向你做任何承诺。
Oh, I can't make you any promises.
今年，我可能是最有可能离开的人，从统计上来说。
I'm of any of this year, I'm the most likely to leave just statistically.
所以，这就是Fetaverse的承诺。
So those were the fetaverse's promises.
自己打造你的算法。
Make your own algorithms.
想走的时候就走。
Leave when you want to.
构建一个即使凯西·牛顿也有朝一日会感到快乐的互联网。
Build an Internet where even Casey Newton might one day be happy.
这就是开端。
This was the beginning.
从这里开始，我们将观察谁会出现，会发生什么，这个分叉世界会在鬼镇消亡，屈服于社交媒体的常态，还是可能出人意料地让凯西惊喜，将重心转向其他方向。
From here, we'd see who showed up, what happened, whether the forkiverse would die at Ghost Town, succumb to the normal dynamics of social media, or maybe, possibly, surprise Casey and point the weight towards something else.
我们准备好打开它了吗？
Are we ready to open this thing?
我们打开吧。
Let's open it.
我们打开吧。
Let's open it.
好的。
Alright.
打开了。
It's open.
好的。
Okay.
那么，我们上线了吗？
So are we launched?
我们上线了。
We're launched.
好的。
Alright.
好了，Casey，这是一次非常有趣的实验，也是与PJ和搜索引擎的一次非常愉快的合作。
Well, Casey, that was a very fun experiment and a very fun collaboration with PJ and search engine.
正如我们在节目中提到的，我们的Mastodon服务器只有大约2000个名额，而且正在迅速被占满。
As we mentioned in the episode, there are only about 2,000 spots on our Mastodon server, and they are going quickly.
但如果服务器满了——看起来在本集发布时很可能就会满，你可以创建自己的Fetaverse服务器，或者加入现有的服务器并与我们互联。
But if it fills up, which it looks like it may by the time this episode comes out, you can start your own Fetaverse server or join an existing one and federate with us.
分享你正在做的事情，关注我们的更新，并与我们一同参与这项宏大的公共实验。
Share updates on what you're doing, listen to our updates, and participate in this grand civic experiment with us.
你还记得杜阿·利帕说‘我在漂浮’的时候吗？
You remember when Dua Lipa said I'm levitating?
嗯，我们现在正在联邦化。
Well, we're federating.
这就是2026年《硬核民谣秀》正在发生的事。
And that's what's happening here on the hard folk show in 2026.
如果你在想，我在Forkiverse里发点啥？
And if you're wondering, what do I post in the Forkiverse?
PJ提出了个好主意。
PJ had the great idea.
你可以发一张你听播客时所在地点的照片。
You can post a photo of where you're listening to the podcast at.
我再补充一个。
I'd throw another one out there.
发你的完整社会安全号码总是很有趣。
It's always fun to post your full social security number.
是的。
Yeah.
我希望大家能发布有关乌克兰军队动向的更新。
And I would love for people to post updates on troop movements in Ukraine.
搜索引擎将不定期更新 Forkiverse 中正在发生或未发生的事情。
Search engine is gonna be doing occasional updates on what's happening or not happening in the Forkiverse.
而且，我们也确实对讨论这些内容感兴趣。
And, you know, we kind of are interested in talking about it too.
所以今年这将是我们玩耍的一个小沙盒，我们鼓励你们加入进来，帮忙，也许带些玩具来沙盒里。
So this is gonna be a little bit of a sandbox for us to play in this year, and we encourage you to get in there and help, you know, maybe bring some toys to the sandbox.
是的。
Yes.
当我们不可避免地遭遇第一次重大的内容审核危机、丑闻时，我们当然也会在节目中讨论这件事。
And when we inevitably have our first major sort of content moderation crisis meltdown scandal, we will also, of course, talk about that on our show as well.
非常感谢搜索引擎团队为本集付出的辛勤工作。
Huge thanks to the search engine team for all their hard work on this episode.
谢谢，P.J. 维格特。
Thank you, PJ Vogt.
谢谢，斯鲁蒂·皮纳马尼尼。
Thank you, Sruthi Pinnamanini.
现在有请P.J.再次为大家宣读致谢名单。
And now here's PJ again to read those credits.
我们将在周五回归，播出常规节目。
We'll be back with our regularly scheduled episode on Friday.
《搜索引擎》由奥德赛出品。
Search Engine is a presentation of Odyssey.
本节目由我P.J.维格特和斯鲁蒂·皮纳马尼尼创作。
It was created by me, PJ Vogt, and Truthi Pinnamaneni.
加勒特·格雷厄姆是我们的高级制片人。
Garrett Graham is our senior producer.
艾米莉·马尔特拉是我们的助理制片人。
Emily Maltera is our associate producer.
主题曲、原创音乐及混音由阿尔明·巴扎里安制作。
Theme, original composition, and mixing by Armin Bazarian.
本集内容由阿吉萨卡那津美核对。
This episode was fact checked by Natsumi Ajisaka.
我们的执行制片人是利娅·里斯·丹尼斯。
Our executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis.
感谢罗布·莫兰迪、克雷格·考克斯、埃里克·多内利、科林·盖恩纳、莫拉·柯兰、约瑟菲娜·弗朗西斯、库尔特·考特尼和希拉里·舒夫等团队成员。
Thanks to the rest of the team at Rob Morandi, Craig Cox, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kurt Courtney, and Hilary Schuff.
如果您想支持我们的节目，获取无广告剧集、无重复剧集和独家附加内容，请考虑在 searchengine.show 注册隐身模式。
If you'd like to support our show, get ad free episodes, zero reruns, and bonus episodes, please consider signing up for incognito mode at searchengine.show.
感谢您的收听。
Thank you for listening.
我们很快再见。
We'll see you soon.
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