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你好。
Hi.
我是索拉纳·派恩。
I'm Solana Pine.
我是《纽约时报》视频部门的总监。
I'm the director of video at The New York Times.
多年来，我的团队制作了大量视频，带您更贴近重大新闻时刻，这些视频由《纽约时报》记者制作，凭借专业能力帮助您理解正在发生的事情。
For years, my team has made videos that bring you closer to big news moments, videos by Times journalists that have the expertise to help you understand what's going on.
现在，我们将这些视频带到《纽约时报》应用程序的“观看”标签页中。
Now we're bringing those videos to you in the watch tab in the New York Times app.
这是一个专属的视频频道，您可以完全信任其中的内容。
It's a dedicated video feed where you know you can trust what you're seeing.
那里所有的视频都免费向所有人开放。
All the videos there are free for anyone to watch.
您无需成为订阅用户。
You don't have to be a subscriber.
下载《纽约时报》应用程序开始观看。
Download the New York Times app to start watching.
我有个故事，讲的是科技救了我一命。
I have a story about technology saving my ass.
让我们听听吧。
Let's hear it.
昨天我带着孩子坐飞机横跨全国，犯了个大错。什么错？
So I was on a flight across the country yesterday with my kid, and I made a huge mistake What's that?
从为人父母的角度来说。
Parenting wise.
我不明白，当你从Netflix下载内容到孩子的iPad上，比如在长途飞行中使用时，这些内容会过期。
I did not understand that when you download things off of Netflix to use on a kid's iPad, for example, during a long flight, they expire.
它们不会一直留在那里。
They don't stay there forever.
哦，是的。
Oh, yes.
所以我们上了飞机，
So we got
我拿出iPad，你知道，这是带着三岁孩子坐飞机的唯一办法。
on the plane, and I pull out the iPad, which is, you know, the only way to take a flight with a three year old.
如果其他家长不靠这个也能应付，愿上帝保佑他们。
If if other parents are doing this without it, God bless.
愿上帝保佑他们。
God bless.
对我来说，这根本不可能。
For me, not gonna happen.
根本不可能。
Can't happen.
我拿出iPad，给他戴上那副小蓝牙耳机。
Pull out the iPad, get his little, like, Bluetooth headphones on.
我打开Netflix，发现什么都没下载。
I go to Netflix, nothing downloaded.
所有内容都过期了。
Everything's expired.
哦，不。
Oh, no.
我心里想，这将是我生命中最漫长的五个小时。
I'm thinking to myself, this is gonna be the longest five hours of my life.
确实如此。
Absolutely.
然后我通过邻座得知，现在可以把蓝牙耳机连接到前方座椅背后的电视上。
Then I learn via my SeatMate that you can now connect your Bluetooth headphones to the TV on the back of the seat in front of you.
这个终于能用了？
That finally works?
这个终于能用了，救了我一命。
That finally works, and it saved me.
所以，向联合航空IT部门那位想出如何将蓝牙耳机连接到座椅电视的人致敬。
And so to the person at United Airlines IT department who figured out how to connect the Bluetooth headphones to the in seat TV, I salute you.
你救了我。
You saved me.
当然。
Absolutely.
这事儿是你们2011年就能想出来的吗？
Is that something you could have figured out in 2011?
当然。
Sure.
但你看。
But look.
我们都忙，你们现在终于做到了，这才是关键。
We've all been busy, and you got to it now, and that's what matters.
我们感谢你们，联合航空。
And we say thank you, United Airlines.
谢谢你们，联合航空。
Thank you, United Airlines.
真美。
Beautiful.
我是凯文·罗斯，《纽约时报》的科技专栏作家。
I'm Kevin Roose, a tech columnist for The New York Times.
我是来自Platformer的凯西·诺恩。
I'm Casey Noon from Platformer.
这是《硬核》节目。
And this is Hard Fork.
本周，2026年已经到来，我们来分享一下我们的新年科技决心。
This week, 2026 is here, and we're sharing our New Year's tech resolutions.
然后我们会回答听众的问题，凯文。
And then we're taking listener questions, Kevin.
我们会回答你们所有关于人工智能、太空数据中心，以及是否应该把圣诞老人P进家庭监控录像的问题。
We'll answer all your questions about AI, space data centers, and whether you should deepfake Santa into your home security footage.
说实话，我一直在想这个问题。
You know, I've been wondering about that.
好吧，凯西，新的一年到了。
Well, Casey, it's a new year.
新的一年到了。
It's a new year.
凯文，祝你和你的家人2026年快乐。
Happy 2026 to you and your family, Kevin.
是的。
Yes.
注意，他并没有回祝你。
And notice that he didn't say it back.
继续说。
Go on.
2026年快乐。
Happy 2026.
谢谢。
Thank you.
你本应该
Are you supposed to
祝福别人新年快乐，还是祝福已经过去的那一年快乐？
wish people a happy year that just ended or a happy year that's beginning?
我认为传统上是祝福他们新年快乐。
I think it's more traditional to wish them a happy New Year.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没有多少人会寄‘旧年快乐’的卡片
Not a lot of happy Old Year cards
今年也不会有太多人寄。
flying off this year.
在外面，但嘿，如果你想的话，就开创一个新传统吧。
Out there, but, hey, start a new tradition if you want.
好吧，祝你旧年快乐，新年快乐。
Well, happy Old Year and happy New Year.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
每周、每年都能和你一起做这个节目，真是件令人愉快的事。
What a joy it is to get to do this show with you week after week, year
一年又一年。
after year.
我也是，我的朋友。
Likewise, my friend.
今天我们有个特别环节，就像每年一样，我们会分享我们的新年科技决心，然后回答一些听众的问题。
And we have something special today, which is that we are going to do our New Year's tech resolutions as we do every year, and then we're gonna list answer some listener questions.
是的。
Yeah.
我们真的非常喜欢做这个。
And we truly love doing this.
说实话，我希望我们能更频繁地做，但你们这些忠实的Heartfork听众给了我们太多精彩的问题。
I wish we did it more, to be honest with you, but we have so many great questions from you, our our devoted Heartfork listeners.
我们非常感谢你们的提问，也迫不及待想要深入解答。
And we thank you for them, and we can't wait to dive into them.
所以在制定我们的新决心之前，让我们先回顾一下去年这个时候我们立下的目标。
So before we set out our new resolutions, let's check-in on what we resolved last year at this time.
凯西，你去年的目标是‘利用人工智能达到中等水平的冥想’，我想问问你进展如何。
Casey, your resolution last year was to, quote, get medium good at meditation using AI, And I wanna ask you how that went.
嗯，凯文，我不得不承认，这个目标彻底失败了。
Well, Kevin, I'm afraid I would have to categorize this one as a major flop.
我不会假装自己做到了。
I'm not gonna front.
去年我们来录音棚录制决心时，我本有着最好的打算。
When we came into the studio last year to record our resolutions, I had the best of intentions.
我最近刚开始练习冥想，发现冥想之后，我可以回到Claude（当时我用的就是它），跟它说：嘿，我在冥想时注意到了这件事。
I had recently begun a meditation practice, and I had found that after I meditated, I could go back to Claude, was using in this case, to say, hey, I noticed this thing while I was meditating.
能不能给我一些指导，帮我应对下次再出现这种情况？
Give me some guidance maybe for the next time that I I do that.
Claude在这方面做得非常好。
And Claude was very good on this front.
问题是，这就是冥想的奇妙之处。
The thing is, and this is the great mystery of meditation.
每次我冥想时，都感觉非常好。
Every single time I did it, I felt very good.
然而，我再次冥想的冲动却完全不存在。
However, my instinct to meditate again was nonexistent.
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
那种感觉就是，我必须得感到极度压力时，才会想：算了，还是冥想吧？
Where it was like, I would have to get to a state of feeling incredibly overwhelmed to say, you know what?
我会，我会让他们暂停一下。
I'm gonna I'm gonna they would take a time out.
我会差不多去我家那个冥想的地方，然后做这件事。
I'm gonna sort of, you know, go go to the spot in my house where I meditate, and I'm do this.
每次我这么做，都感觉很棒。
Every time I did it, I felt great.
但它就是从未成为一种习惯。
It just never became a habit.
所以我不把这个问题归咎于技术。
So I do not blame the technology for this one.
我有很多朋友也尝试在过去几年开始冥想，但他们似乎都撞上了同样的障碍。
I have many, many friends who also have tried to start meditation practices over the year, and they seem to crash on these very same rocks.
如果我要给自己一点肯定的话，我会说，我确实发展出了其他一些策略，来应对去年促使我想冥想的那种情绪。
If I were to give myself any credit at all, I would say that I did just sort of develop other strategies to, like, address the feelings that were leading me to want to meditate last year.
所以，如果我有什么值得高兴的，那就是我觉得自己基本掌控了生活中这些方面。
So if I'm happy about anything at all, it is that I feel like I got sort of those aspects of my life under control.
不过，我当然很尴尬，因为我的决心失败得这么彻底。
Although, I am, of course, quite embarrassed that I failed this hard at my resolution.
你找到了哪些其他方法？
What are these other techniques that you found?
它们涉及氯胺酮吗？
Do they involve ketamine?
我要做一件有点奇怪的事，并且真诚地说出来。
I'm gonna I'm gonna do something strange and be sincere.
是的，它们确实涉及氯胺酮。
And, yes, they did involve ketamine.
双重尝试。
Double dip.
我发现，在2024年当我感到精疲力尽时，真正帮我摆脱这种状态的，是一些你可能会想到的事情，比如休息、去度假、放下手机。
What I found was that in 2024, when I was feeling burned out, the thing that wound up kinda pulling me out of that was, like, one, things that you would expect, like, you know, taking breaks, like going on vacation, putting the phone down.
这些事情你大概都能猜到。
These these things you could probably guess.
但我为自己做的最好的一件事，就是我觉得自己重新找回了人生的目标。
The best thing I did for myself though was I feel like I just kind of rediscovered my sense of purpose.
我跟你一起去参加了一个关于人工智能的会议，认识了许多非常有趣的人，脑子里开始冒出一些新想法，重新明确了自己作为一名记者当下所肩负的使命，这比我任何一次单独的冥想都更有帮助——当然，这并不是说冥想不好，它确实很棒。
I went to a conference with you about AI, met a lot of really interesting people, kind of got some new ideas percolating in my head, renewed my sense of, like, what my job is in this moment as a journalist, and that did more for me than, like, any individual meditation session, which isn't to say that the meditation wasn't great because it was.
但真正对我帮助最大的，是那种目标感带来的触动，它胜过了一切其他东西。
But it was that thing, that that feeling of sense of purpose that wound up benefiting me more than anything else.
我真为你感到高兴。
I love that for you.
我知道你之前已经精疲力尽了。
I know I know you were burned out.
我希望你现在没那么疲惫了。
I hope that you are less burned out.
我知道你工作非常努力，你值得休息，也值得对自己所做的事情充满热情。
I know you work very hard, and you deserve a break, and you deserve to feel passionate about what you're doing.
我很高兴的是，今年我也经历了类似的事情——参加像你提到的这类活动，还有写这本书，都让我重新与我们这份工作最让我热爱的部分建立了连接。
And so I'm glad that that I I actually like, something similar happened to me this year, which is that I feel like going to events like the one you brought up and also writing this book have really connected me again to, like, what I love about the work that we do.
我们能做这件事，我觉得自己太幸运了。
And we're just we're I feel so lucky to get to do this.
我觉得确实如此。
And I think that's yeah.
这在很大程度上能缓解倦怠。
That helps a lot with burnout.
当你对所做的事情充满热情时，你能做得更多。
You can do a lot more when you're excited about what you're doing.
是的。
Yeah.
当然。
Absolutely.
顺便说一句，我完全不会因为你未能实现新年决心而责怪你。
So and I for what it's worth, I do not fault you at all for failing or flopping at your New Year's resolution.
我曾多次立志要冥想并养成习惯，但每次都失败了。
I have set out a goal many times of trying to meditate and develop a practice, and I have failed every time.
每次我去向那些更有经验的冥想者朋友倾诉时，都会觉得自己很糟糕，但他们总说：冥想里没有失败这一说。
And every time I go to my more experienced meditator friends and I say, feel terrible about this, and they say, there's no failing in meditation.
你只是还没成功而已。
You just haven't succeeded yet.
哦，我喜欢这个说法。
Oh, I like that.
我非常喜欢这个说法。
I like that very much.
我要说，我和我男朋友有时候会有点竞争心，而他冥想相当不错。
I will say that, you know, my my boyfriend and I can be somewhat competitive, and he's, like, quite good at meditating.
所以今年他去参加了一个冥想静修营，回来后我就问他：进展如何？
So he went on a meditation retreat this year, and he came back, and I was like, how did that go?
他说：嗯，你知道的，我第一晚就看透了时空，与宇宙的本源能量连接上了。
And he's like, well, you know, I, like, saw through space and time and connected with the source energy of the universe on my first night there.
我
I was
嗯，干得好，亲爱的。
like, well, great job, sweetheart.
是啊。
Yeah.
我在其他事情上还挺拿手的。
I'm I'm good at other things.
好吧。
Alright.
现在让我把焦点从自己身上移开，凯文，你能提醒我们你去年的承诺是什么吗？
Let me now shift the spotlight away from myself, Kevin, and ask you to remind us what was your resolution from last year?
我去年的承诺是成为我想在这个世界上看到的榜样。
So my resolution from last year was to be the poster I wished to see in the world.
basically，我厌倦了只是在网上潜水并抱怨社交媒体的现状，我想更多地参与进来，发布更多我 personally 认为有价值的内容。
Basically, I was tired of just sort of lurking on the Internet and complaining about the state of social media, and I wanted to engage more and post more of the kind of stuff that I personally think is good.
我也应该坦诚地说，我觉得自己在这件事上只做得中等水平。
And I should be honest about this one too and say that I think I only did a medium good job this one.
嗯，我要打断你一下，从我的角度看，你真的在这方面成功了，因为我感觉你的推文到处都能看到。
Well, I was I'm gonna interrupt you and say that from my perspective, you really succeeded at this because I feel like I saw your tweets popping up all over the place.
我觉得你一直在网上和有趣的人交流，我经常对你进行的对话感到嫉妒，因为看起来你玩得比我都开心。
I feel like you were having conversations with interesting people online, And I was often jealous of the conversations that you were having because it seemed like you were having a lot more fun out
那里比我开心。
there than I was.
这很有趣，因为我觉得今年在实现这个目标上，我的主要收获是发帖更多了，而且发得更自由了。
That's really interesting because I feel like my primary win toward this resolution this year was that I did post more, and I posted more freely.
是的。
Yeah.
我不再那么担心去预判可能的反对意见，或者担心有人会因为我发的某条内容生气。
I was less worried about, you know, trying to sort of anticipate all of the potential objections or people who might get mad at any one thing I would post.
我就直接放手去发。
And I would just kind of let it rip.
我并不是经常这么做，但每次这么做的时候都让我非常满足，因为这正是我过去使用社交媒体的方式。
And I would do this not all that frequently, but when I did it, it was always very gratifying because that's how I used to use social media.
然后我们突然之间有了很多粉丝，人们开始以新的方式批评记者，那一刻感觉发帖似乎变得不安全了。
And then we kind of, like, you know, got all these followers and, like, people started, like, criticizing journalists in new ways, and it just felt for a minute like it was it was unsafe to post.
我认为今年我提醒了自己，其实事情的严重性并没有那么高。
And I think what I've done this year is reminded myself that, like, the stakes actually aren't that high.
即使别人对你生气，也不是世界末日，你可以直接说出你的想法。
It's not the end of the world if people get mad at you, and you can just kind of say what you think.
是的。
Yeah.
特别是在X平台上，所有还留在那里的人都像小妖精一样。
Particularly on x where everyone who is still there is a goblin.
所以真的没必要，因为事实是这样。
And so there really is just no because here's the thing.
无论你那天在X上发什么，总会有更糟糕的内容被发布，并且获得比你多得多的关注。
No matter what you post on x on any given day, something infinitely worse will have been said and will have gotten much more attention than it.
所以，如果你想要谈谈你对AI的看法
So, you know, if you wanna bring in your AI take on
X，你会好好的。
x, you're gonna be just fine.
是的。
Yes.
我还要说一点，我发现另一件很有帮助的事情，希望这对那些在网上发帖时感到不安的人也有帮助：实际上，你不可能让所有观众都满意。
I will also say that one other thing that I have found helpful, and I hope this is helpful to to other people out there who may be feeling some trepidation about posting online, is that it is actually not possible to please everyone in your audience or in the audience.
所以我开始接受‘小众发帖’，即使我知道只有10%关注我的人会理解或关心我发的内容，我依然会这么做。
And so I have started to feel okay with, like, niche posting Even if I know that, like, only 10% of the people who follow me are gonna understand or care about the thing I'm posting about, I'm trying to do that anyway.
我觉得把我内心的感受表达出来，获得一些反馈，并在写专栏或上播客之前先对这些想法进行压力测试，对我很有益处。
I think it is salutary for me to sort of put my feelings out into the world, to get some feedback on those, and to sort of stress test ideas before I put them into a column or onto a podcast.
所以我觉得，明年我会在我想冥想的时候就冥想，但对我来说，这已经不再属于‘新年决心’的范畴了。
So I feel like for my next year, I will meditate whenever I want to, if I want to, but I would say that this has moved out of the category of resolution for me.
你对2026年的发帖有什么想法？
How are you thinking about posting in 2026?
这让我想到，我们要不要先聊聊我们的新年决心？
So this gets to do you wanna start with our our New Year's resolutions?
哦，我们还没说呢，你的这个新年决心和这个有关吗？
Oh, we haven't is it is your new New Year's resolution connected to this resolution?
它有点
It it is sort
间接相关。
of tangentially connected to it.
我们来谈谈吧。
Let's get into it.
所以我的2026年决心是学会制作短视频。
So my resolution for 2026 is to get good at short form video.
因为事情是这样的。
Because here's the thing.
现在一切都变成电视了。
Everything is TV now.
这并不是我凭空想出来的观点。
This is not a point that I am coming up with.
德里克·汤普森最近发表了一篇非常好的文章，谈到了这种转变：每个平台、每种社交媒体体验现在都逐渐被视频，尤其是短视频所主导。
Derek Thompson recently had a very good post about this sort of shift of every platform, every social media experience is now sort of becoming dominated by video and specifically short form video.
多年来，我一直在旁观这一趋势，心想：真该有位记者好好掌握这种形式，因为目前擅长它的人通常都不是记者。
And I have been observing this from afar for several years, feeling like, oh, someone should actually, like, get good at this, who is a journalist, because the people who are good at it are generally not journalists.
在这些平台上走红的人，通常并不是因为他们想把准确、真实的信息传播到世界上。
The people who are going viral on these platforms are generally not doing it because they, like, want to get good, accurate, true information out into the world.
网上充斥着大量低质量的短视频。
There's a lot of low quality short form video out there.
因此，我认为许多记者都被这种媒介所排斥，因为这里似乎不是严肃的人做严肃事情的地方。
And so I think a lot of journalists have been kind of repelled by the whole medium because this is not a place where serious people go to do serious things.
至少从外部看，情况似乎是这样。
At least it doesn't seem that way from the outside.
这更像是一个充满滑稽、煽动愤怒的内容和噱头的地方，人们为了走红而迎合最低的大众趣味。
This is like a place for goofy, you know, rage bait and stunts and people trying to go viral by doing, like, sort of catering to the lowest common denominator.
我理解这种反应。
And I understand that reaction.
我对短视频的兴起感到非常矛盾。
I have very ambivalent feelings about the rise of short form video Mhmm.
作为文字的替代品。
As a replacement for text.
我们是文字的人。
We are people of the word.
我们是写作者。
We are writers.
但我确实认为这将会持续下去。
But I do think this is something that I expect to continue.
我认为我们正在意识到，世界上有更多人喜欢通过短视频而非1200字的报纸文章来获取新闻和信息。
I think that we are learning that there are just many more people in the world who like getting their news and information in the form of short videos than in the form of 1,200 word newspaper articles.
因此，我的做法是去探索、实验，尝试找到一种适合我的短视频形式——它让我感觉良好、真实，而不是在假装成另一个人，或者盲目追随某个热门的TikTok趋势，而是真正具有高价值、新闻性和实验性的内容，并在那里不断尝试，直到我找到答案。
And so my resolution is to explore and experiment and try to figure out something that I can do on short form video that feels good and authentic and not like I'm trying to be someone I'm not or, you know, can't latch on to some trending TikTok thing, but, like, something that is actually high value and journalistic and experiment there until I figure it out.
现在我觉得，所有在短视频游戏中成功的人，都有一些独特的噱头。
Now I feel like everyone who succeeds at this short form video game has some kind of gimmick.
你有没有想过你的 gimmick 可能是什么？
Have you thought about what your gimmick might be?
我给你举个例子。
I'll give you an example.
前几天有人给我看了一段视频，是一个人在公共场合吃奇怪的食物。
Someone showed me one the other day where there's a guy who just eats strange foods in public.
他会拍自己在飞机上吃整个洋葱，然后偷偷拍下旁边的人，不经过他们同意，这样就能获得很多点赞。
So he'll film himself, like, eating a whole onion on a plane, and they'll just sort of, you know, take video of the person next to them him without their consent, and then he'll get a lot of likes for that.
所以你打算做这种类型的内容吗？
So is that the sort of thing you're thinking about doing?
我不知道。
I don't know.
这更像是，我目前还没有明确的策略。
This is more of an like, I don't have a real strategy in mind yet.
我觉得我更想做的只是去尝试，看看什么感觉比较好。
I think more of what I want to do is just experiment and see what feels good.
我对走红没那么感兴趣。
I'm not that interested in going viral.
我的主要目的并不是当一个网红，你知道的。
Like, it's not my primary, you know, job to be an influencer.
但我觉得你和我，你知道的，现在都开始转向视频了。
But I think you and I, you know, are both pushing into video now.
这已经成为播客增长策略的一部分，不仅对我们如此，整个行业都是如此。
This has been a part of the podcast growth strategy, not just for us, but, like, across the industry.
我觉得很多播客制作者都觉得他们被拖进了视频这个领域。
And I think a lot of podcasters feel like they're kind of being dragged into this video thing.
比如，哦，我们得这么做，因为观众在那里，他们想要这个。
Like, oh, we have to do this because that's where the audience is and that's what they want.
而我正试图采取一种更开放、更好奇的态度，说：没错。
And I am trying to take a more open minded and curious approach and saying, like, yeah.
如果世界正朝着这个方向发展，从战略上讲这对我们有利，而且为了职业的持久性，找到一种让自己感觉良好、充满活力的方式去做，同时弄清楚高质量短视频生态是什么样子以及它应该是什么样
If the world is moving in this direction, it's good for us strategically, but also probably for our career longevity to find a way to do this that feels good and energizing and to sort of figure out what the high quality short form video landscape looks like and what it should
是什么样子。
look like.
这非常有趣。
That's very interesting.
我想说，我也有过类似的思考，是否应该为了同样的原因去涉足这个领域。
I will say, I have had a similar thought about whether this is something that I should look into for the same reasons.
我其实有一个非常短的清单，列出了我想制作的短视频，我经常在想制作它们。
And I actually have a very short list of, like, short form videos that I wanna make, and I do think about making them all the time.
所以也许我应该直接去做。
And so maybe I should just do that.
但有时候我会纠结于，我制作这些东西会不会加速孩子大脑的扭曲？
But then sometimes I just get hung up on, like, is me making this going to accelerate to the cooking of a child's brain?
你懂我的意思吗？
You know what I mean?
我是说，我会不会做出一些看似不错的东西，结果别人只是滑过去，去寻找他们的饮食失调内容？
Like, am I gonna make something that's, like, good that, like, somebody's gonna swipe past, like, on the way to get their eating disorder content?
我不知道。
I I don't know.
我只是对视频革命的全面拥抱有一些担忧。
It I just have, like, some concerns about the sort of full throated embrace of the video revolution.
我明白。
I get that.
但我确实认为，这种对短视频的印象是基于现在已有的内容，而不是未来可能存在的内容。
But I do think that, like, I do think that that impression of short form video is based on, like, what is out there now and not what could be out there.
我认为，如果你看的是电视上最差的30档节目，你的印象会和看电视上最高质量的内容大不相同。
And I think if you are looking at, like, you know, the 30 worst shows on TV, you're going to have a very different impression than if you're looking at, like, the highest quality stuff that's on TV.
我觉得我们需要避免把媒介和内容混为一谈。
I think I think we need to, like, avoid confusing the medium and the message.
这很公平。
That's fair.
我很想知道结果会怎样，因为很多时候，当我看到记者直接面对镜头讲述他们的故事时，这种形式加上普通记者那种在纸媒上非常可贵的真诚，却总让人感觉像个小学生在做读书报告。
Well, I'm curious to see how this turns out because I will say a lot of times when I see journalists doing direct to camera videos where they're, like, talking about their story, there's just something about that format, like, combined with the earnestness of the average journalist, which is so wonderful in print that does come across like a fifth grader giving a book report.
我认为，在短视频领域，这种语气要想成功是非常具有挑战性的。
And I think that's, like, a really challenging tone to make succeed in the realm of short form video.
所以，我鼓励你去发无厘头内容、去 trolling、去搞怪。
So I wanna encourage you to shitpost and to troll and to clown.
我认为，如果你能把这些元素结合起来，或许就能有所成就。
And I think if you can sort of combine those things, you may have something.
好吧。
Alright.
好吧，这就是我明年的决心。
Well, that's my resolution for next year.
我的另一个更偏向于职业方面的决心。
My other one is more that was more of a professional resolution.
我还有一个个人方面的决心，那就是我要全身心地活在当下。
I do have a personal one too, which is that I am going to be where I am in in the broadest sense.
我觉得有一件事让我特别明显，我们这一年一直在和重要且成功的人交谈。
Like, I think one thing that has stood out to me, you know, we've spent the the year, like, talking with important and successful people.
每次我见到这些人时，总让我印象深刻的是，他们和你交谈时从不看手机。
And one thing that always strikes me when I meet these people is that they are never looking at their phone when they're talking to you.
嗯。
Mhmm.
事实上，上周我们吃晚餐时，虽然不能说具体是谁，但对方是个非常忙碌、非常成功的人， presumably 一天到晚都有人向他们提出各种要求。
And we were at our dinner last week, in fact, and I I can't say who it was with, but it was with someone who is very busy, very successful, presumably has people making requests of them, at all hours of the day.
我们和这个人一起吃了两个多小时的晚餐，我根本没有看到他们看过一次手机。
And we sat down to dinner with this person for, like, two plus hours, and I did not see them look at their phone one time.
没有。
No.
对我来说，这给我上了一课：你其实不必时刻了解生活中每一个角落的动态。
And to me, that was a lesson that you actually don't have to know what's going on in all of the pockets of your life at once.
我觉得我非常不擅长单任务处理，无法真正专注于当下所处的环境。
And I think I am very bad at monotasking, at being in the place where I am.
你知道，我在家的时候。
You know, I'm at home.
我正在做晚饭，或者在打扫房子。
I'm cooking dinner, or I'm, you know, cleaning the house.
我在听播客。
I'm listening to a podcast.
我在回一些短信或邮件。
I'm catching up on some texts or emails.
我发现很难真正地专注于当下的人或情境。
I find it very difficult to just, like, be present with the person or in the situation that I'm in.
所以我不是说我要少用手机，但我确实想稍微把它们分隔开，这样我能更容易地专注于眼前的事情。
So I'm not saying I'm gonna use my phone less, but I do want to compartmentalize it a little bit so that I actually have an easier time, like, focusing on the thing in front of me.
有意思。
Interesting.
你考虑过冥想吗？
Have you considered meditating?
我听说冥想在实现这个目标上非常有效。
It can be very I've heard it can be very effective in achieving that objective.
值得思考一下。
Something to think about.
好的，凯西。
Okay, Casey.
你2026年的决心是什么？
What is your resolution for 2026?
好的。
Okay.
这可是个大事，凯文。
This is a big one, Kevin.
你得监督我做到这一点。
You're gonna have to hold me accountable to this.
这就是我的决心。
But here's the resolution.
在未来一年里，我将尝试不对自己的工作效率系统做任何重大调整。
For the next one year, I am going to try not to make any meaningful change to my productivity system.
哇。
Wow.
因为我觉得我终于搞明白了，凯夫。
Because I think I finally cracked it, Kev.
真的吗？
Really?
我觉得我搞明白了。
I think I've cracked it.
好吧。
Okay.
所以我想告诉你这件事，希望你不会觉得太无聊。
So I wanna tell you about this, and I hope you don't find this too boring.
嗯，我能先给
Well, can I just give our
对于可能刚接触这个节目的听众，是吗？
for listeners who may be newer to the show Yeah?
你是世界上最有强迫症、最三心二意的生产力软件用户。
You are the world's twitchiest and most sort of promiscuous user of productivity software.
没错。
That is correct.
你会尝试任何数据库、任何个人知识图谱，没错。
You will try any database, any personal knowledge graph Yes.
任何声称能让你提升5%效率的东西，你都会用两三个月，然后又丢掉去试别的。
Anything that promises to make you 5% more productive, you will spend two to three months using it and then ditch it for something else.
是的。
Yes.
只要我看到有关它的信息，就会安装，而且有很大概率会毫无理由地购买它的终身订阅。
If I read about it, I will install it, and there's a very high chance I will buy a lifetime subscription to it for no reason.
所以你正在让你的生产力工具栈变得相对专一。
So you are becoming monogamish with your productivity stack.
这正是我的想法。
That's the idea.
而且，拥有一个生产力系统的根本目的，就是为了实现一系列目标。
And look, the whole reason to have a productivity stack is to, like, accomplish a set of goals.
所以，如果你真的想认真对待这件事，你首先要问自己：你的实际目标是什么？
And so I think if you wanna be serious about this, the first thing you have to ask yourself is, well, what are your actual goals?
在过去一年里，我觉得自己弄清楚了我真正想要从这个系统中获得什么，然后我就搭建了这个系统。
And over the past year, I feel like I figured out what I actually want out of this system, and then I built the dang thing.
现在它只是在为我顺利运作。
Now it's just kinda working for me.
所以我想看看，我能不能坚持用下去。
So I wanna see if, like, I if I can stick with it.
告诉我它是什么。
Tell me what it is.
好的。
Alright.
接下来我跟你讲讲我的系统。
So I'm gonna tell you a little bit about my system.
我恰好使用一个叫 Capacities 的应用来运行我的系统。
I happen to run my system in an app called Capacities.
我认为你也可以在许多其他应用中实现类似版本。
I do think you could do a version of this though in a lot of other apps.
这就是我对系统的需求。
Here's what I need out of a system.
第一，我需要一个可以写每日日记的地方。
Number one, I need a place where I can write a daily journal.
这对我来说已经变得非常重要。
This has just become something that's really important to me.
我每天早上坐下来
I sit down in
早上。
the morning.
我喝一杯
I have a cup
一杯咖啡。
of coffee.
我把脑子里所有东西都倒出来。
I empty my brain of whatever's on it.
这其中有个人事务，也有工作事务，但这样能帮我清理思绪，让头脑清醒，进入正确的心态。
It's a mix of personal stuff, professional stuff, but but this just kinda clears the decks for me, clears my head, puts me in the right frame of mind.
明白吗？
Okay?
第二，我需要一个非常轻量级的任务管理系统。
Number two, I need a very lightweight task management system.
我需要一个地方来记录我的待办事项。
I need a place where I can put my to dos.
巧合的是，在Capacities中，我可以在每天早上写日记的同一个地方管理任务。
And it so happens in capacities, I can have that right in the same place where I have my journal every morning.
所以这还挺不错的。
So that's kinda nice.
然后我们来到第三点。
And then we get to number three.
这一点上，我感觉自己其实正在触及前沿。
And this is where I actually feel like I'm at the frontier a little bit.
好吧。
Okay.
作为记者，凯文和我，我们正在追踪各种不同的叙事线索。
So as a journalist, Kevin and I, we're we're tracking all kinds of different little narrative threads.
对吧？
Right?
我们正处于人工智能泡沫中吗？
Are we in an AI bubble?
苹果公司什么时候才能搞清楚它的AI策略？
Is Apple ever going to figure out its AI approach?
当前领先的前沿模型是什么？
What is the leading frontier model of the moment?
我们每天都会读到关于这些事情的故事。
And we read stories about these things every day.
对我来说，这些冒出来的故事可能成为专栏的开端，也可能成为我想亲自报道的故事的起点。
And for me, those stories that bubble up can become the beginnings of columns, or they could become the beginnings of a story that I might want to report myself.
问题是，我该如何跟踪它们呢？
The problem is, how do I keep track of them?
今年早些时候，我读到了一位名叫安迪·马图扎克的人写的博客文章，他提出了一个他称之为‘碎片’的概念，这些碎片其实就是一些简短的笔记，可能只有一句话，比如‘我们正处于人工智能泡沫中’。
Earlier this year, I read a blog post by a guy named Andy Matuszak, and he had the idea of what he calls blips, which are essentially just little notes that might be a single sentence such as we're in an AI bubble.
这是一些你可以随着时间逐步充实的开端。
And that's the beginning of something that you might flesh out over time.
所以，凯文，我在Capacities里所做的就是一直在创建这些碎片。
So what I have done inside capacities, Kevin, is I have just been creating these blips.
每当有新的故事出现，涉及我们是否处于人工智能泡沫中，我就会把它们添加到这些碎片里。
As new stories come along that speak to whether we might be in an AI bubble, I add them into that little blip.
然后，在我在Capacities里的每日日记页面中，我设置了一个实时查询。
And then inside the little daily journal page that I have in capacities, I've set up a live query.
所以每天早上，它会随机选出五个这样的小笔记展示给我。
So every morning, it randomly selects five of these blips and shows them to me.
而这才是关键，因为你可以创建无数个小笔记。
And this is the key because you can create as many little notes as you want.
否则你会失去对它们的追踪。
You're gonna lose track of them.
你会忘记去更新它们。
You're gonna forget to update them.
但我现在有了一个进行随机间隔重复的系统。
But I now have a system that is doing random spaced repetition.
因此，当我做我的每日日记时，我会看到那条写着‘我们正处于AI泡沫中’的小笔记。
And so as I'm doing my little journal, I'll see the little note that says we're in an AI bubble.
然后我会想，天哪。
And I will think, oh my gosh.
我刚看到英伟达这周签下的一个疯狂交易。
I just saw, like, the craziest deal that NVIDIA signed this week.
我会进去把它添加到列表里。
I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna add that to the list.
我已经这样做了大约四个月了，所以我不是刚接触这个方法。
I've been doing this about four months now, so I'm not brand new to this.
但我必须说，它现在让我的专栏研究变得容易多了，因为总会有新事情出现。
But I have to say, it has made researching my columns so much easier now because things come up.
我知道该去哪里查找过去五篇关于这个话题的文章，我感觉它真的让我的生活轻松多了。
I know exactly where to go to look to find the past five stories that I saw about this, and I just feel like it's truly been making my life easier.
所以此刻，我无法告诉你我的生产力系统里还缺少哪一件事。
So in this moment, I could not tell you one thing that I do not have out of my productivity system.
我真的觉得自己拥有了想要的东西，因此接下来的一年，我只想好好使用它。
Like, I actually feel like I have the thing that I want, and so for the next year, I am just going to try to use it.
好的。
Okay.
这是进步。
This is progress.
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是的。
Yeah.
我觉得如果这个能坚持下来，我会很高兴，因为除此之外，我认为在生活的这一部分，你需要一些稳定性。
I think I would be happy if this one stuck because among other things, I think you you need some stability when it comes to this part of your life.
是的。
Yes.
是时候让你安定下来了，
And it's time for you to settle down and
并让能力成为一位诚实的女人。
And make an honest woman out of capacities.
是的。
Yes.
我为你感到高兴。
And I love this for you.
你有没有担心过，这个领域中的AI工具在未来一年里会变得如此先进，以至于你不得不放弃你钟爱的能力系统，转而使用其他新系统？
Do you have any fear that the AI tools that sort of are exist in this sphere are going to get so much better over the next year that you will be forced to abandon your beloved capacities based system and switch to something new?
这是个很好的问题，因为我确实认为在日记中进一步整合人工智能还有空间。
It's a great question because I do think that there is still room to integrate AI into journaling a little bit more.
对吧？
Right?
我觉得一个能回应你的日记是非常有趣的想法。
Like, I think a journal that talks back to you is a really interesting thing.
Capacities 已经有一些人工智能的集成。
Capacities has some sorts of AI integrations.
他们说计划要做更多，所以我只能寄希望于这些能实现。
They say they plan on doing a lot more, so I'm just gonna kind of cross my fingers that that happens.
我能想象明年会出现一款我肯定会想试试的人工智能日记吗？
Can I imagine an AI journal coming out in the next year that I'm definitely gonna wanna try?
能。
Yes.
而且，我大概真的会去试试。
And, like, I probably will try it.
但归根结底，每天我并不想进行那种长达一小时的聊天机器人对话，试图彻底搞清楚某个问题。
But ultimately, day to day, like, I'm not trying to have, like, you know, hour long, you know, chatbot interactions where I'm really trying to get to the bottom of something.
所以我觉得我可以继续维持现状。
So I think I can just kind of stay where I'm at.
是的。
Yeah.
这真的很有趣。
That's really interesting.
我会对你做一个自然的A/B测试：我会继续随意使用，不采用任何特定的生产力系统，只是用笔记应用、给自己发邮件录语音备忘录、在纸片上潦草记下一些想法，然后年底我们对比一下，看看谁更有效率。
I am going to run a natural a b test with you on this, where I'm going to continue to flail around using no coherent productivity system in particular, and my notes app, emailing myself voice memos, little scribbles on scraps of paper, and we can compare notes at the end of the year and see who's been more productive.
我觉得这个计划很棒。
I think that sounds like a great plan.
我对这个很期待。
I'm excited about it.
好了，凯西。
Alright, Casey.
这就是我们明年的决心。
That is our resolutions for this coming year.
回来后，我们将听取听众的反馈以及他们向我们提出的许多问题。
When we come back, we will hear from our listeners and many of the questions that they have been asking us.
我们会试试。
We'll try
来回答这些问题。
to answer them.
看看他们心里在想什么。
Let's see what's on their minds.
是的。
Yeah.
你好。
Hi.
我是劳里·莱博维奇，《纽约时报》健康版的编辑。
This is Laurie Lebovich, editor of Well at the New York Times.
健康与养生领域充斥着大量错误信息，但在《纽约时报》，无论话题是什么，我们对所有撰写的内容都秉持相同的新闻标准，无论是肠道微生物组还是如何获得良好的睡眠。
There's a lot of misinformation in the health and wellness space, but at The New York Times, no matter what the topic, we apply the same journalistic standards to everything we write about, whether it's the gut microbiome or how to get a good night's sleep.
即使我们讨论的是像‘空腹喝咖啡对身体有害吗？’这样的问题。
Even if we're talking about something like, is it bad for me to drink coffee on an empty stomach?
我们的读者在阅读《Well》文章时所获得的每一条信息都经过了核实。
Everything that our readers get when they dig into a Well article has been vetted.
我们的记者会咨询专家，联系数十人，进行深入研究。
Our reporters are consulting experts, calling dozens of people, doing the research.
这个过程可能持续数月，以便您能为自己的身心健康做出明智的决定。
It can go on for months so that you can make great decisions about your physical health and your mental health.
我们格外认真地对待报道，因为我们知道《纽约时报》的订户们依赖着我们。
We take our reporting extra seriously because we know New York Times subscribers are counting on us.
如果您已经订阅，谢谢您。
If you already subscribed, thank you.
如果您想订阅，请访问 nytimes.com/subscribe。
If you'd like to subscribe, go to nytimes.com/subscribe.
好了，凯西，该打开听众来信了。
Well, Casey, it's time to open up the mailbag.
是的，凯文。
It is, Kevin.
还有什么比听听听众们的想法更好的方式来开启新的一年呢？
What better way to kick off the new year than by hearing what is on our listeners' minds?
没错。
Yes.
我们真的拥有世界上最好的听众。
We truly have the greatest listeners in the world.
每次他们给我们发来内容，都会让我们感到惊喜和愉悦。
They surprise and delight us every time they send us something.
我们非常喜欢听到你们的声音，我们想在本集结束时回答一些你们的问题。
And we really love hearing from you, and we wanted to end this episode by answering a few of your questions.
因此，帮助我们的嘉宾是《硬核》的高级制作人惠特尼·琼斯。
So here to help us out, we have Hard Fork senior producer, Whitney Jones.
嗨，惠特尼。
Hi, Whitney.
大家好。
Hey, everybody.
嗨。
Hey.
不错的帽子。
Great hat.
很高兴回来。
Good to be back.
如果你在YouTube上观看，可以看到惠特尼戴着一顶非常帅气的Hard Fork帽子，我相信这顶帽子可以在nytimes.com上购买。
If you're watching this on YouTube, you can see that Whitney's wearing a very handsome Hard Fork hat that I believe is available for purchase at nytimes.com.
是的。
It is.
我这周刚买了这一顶，这有点荒谬，因为之前帽子活动的剩余库存都堆在我的办公桌上，所以我有一大堆
I just purchased mine this week and now which is a little bit ridiculous because the old stock from the previous hat ventures are all sitting at my desk, and so I have a whole bunch of
它们都在那儿。
them there.
你有500
You have 500
顶帽子在桌上。
hats at desk.
是的。
Yeah.
但只有其中一款现在有售。
But only one of these, which are now available.
如果有人感兴趣，他们从哪里买呢？
Where do people get those if they're interested?
你去纽约时报的在线商店，输入“hard for cat”，就会出现这款。
You go to the New York Times store online, and you type in hard for cat, and this will pop up.
很好。
Great.
完美。
Perfect.
我们会把链接放在节目笔记中。
We'll link it in the show notes.
这是今年即将到来的圣诞节的完美礼物。
It's a perfect gift for this upcoming Christmas.
是的。
Yes.
2026年。
2026.
三百
Three hundred
六十三天。
and sixty three days.
今年别让圣诞节悄悄来临。
Don't let Christmas sneak up on you this year.
好的。
Okay.
那么，惠特尼，你有什么要告诉我们吗？
Well, Whitney, what do
你为我们准备了什么？
you have for us?
所以我准备了几个简单的，先热热身。
So I have the first these are just a couple of quick ones to get us warmed up here.
好的。
Okay.
第一封信来自来自台湾的科迪。
The first letter is from Cody from Taiwan.
科迪写道：我非常喜欢你们的节目，但我对‘Hardfork’这个名字还是有些困惑。
Cody writes, love your show very much, but I am still confused with the name Hardfork.
它是什么意思？
What does it stand for?
如果你能为我解释一下，我会非常高兴。
I will be very happy if you could explain it to me.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
当然。
Sure.
我来告诉你它代表什么。
I'll tell you what it stands for.
自由表达、平等、正义和对人类的善意。
Free expression, equality, justice, and goodwill towards mankind.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，这是我们在2021年想出来的名字。
Well, it is a name that we came up with in 2021.
嗯。
Mhmm.
关于2021年的一件事是，加密货币是科技领域最大的新闻。
And a thing to know about 2021 is that crypto was the biggest story in technology.
你无法想象它当时有多火爆
You wouldn't believe how huge it was at
那时候。
the time.
当我们向《纽约时报》推销这个节目时，我们以为这会是一个主要关于加密货币的节目。
And when we pitched this show to the New York Times, we thought it was gonna be a show mostly about crypto.
所以我们当时想，应该用某个加密货币术语作为节目的名字。
And so we were thinking we should have, like, some sort of crypto term that we could put as the name of the show.
嗯。
Yeah.
我或许可以讲一个以前没说过的故事，那就是Hardfork最初的名称本来是‘不会成功’或者‘NGMI’，那是当时加密货币圈的人在社交媒体上经常发的一个词。
I'll I'll maybe tell a story that I haven't told before about this, which is that the original name for Hardfork was going to be not gonna make it or NGMI, which was at the time something that crypto people would post on social media a lot.
意思是，如果你没有参与这场加密革命，你就不会成功。
Like, if you weren't part of the crypto revolution, you were not gonna make it.
我只是觉得，每周播客开头用‘嗨’来开场会特别搞笑。
And I just thought it'd be very funny to start a podcast every week with like, hi.
我是凯西。
I'm Casey.
我是凯文，我们不会成功的。
I'm Kevin, and we're not gonna make it.
明白吗？
Okay?
所以我们当时就是这么提案的。
So that was what we pitched.
然后《纽约时报》的律师们去查了，发现《Slate》杂志曾经写过一篇关于加密货币、标题为‘不会成功’的专栏。
And then the Times lawyers looked into it, and Slate Magazine had written one column under the name not gonna make it about crypto.
但他们再也没有写过第二篇这样的专栏。
They they never wrote a second edition of this column.
但基于这一点，《纽约时报》表示，他们不想与Slate.com发生争执。
But on that basis, the Times was like, we don't wanna pick up flay fight with slate.com.
所以我们选择了《Hardfork》。
And so we chose Hardfork.
我得说，实际上我对我们选择了这个而不是那个感到更开心。
And I have to say, I'm actually, like, much happier that we chose that instead of not
不好。
being bad.
对律师来说，是的。
For the lawyers Yeah.
对《纽约时报》来说，否则这个节目会非常尴尬。
To the New York Times because otherwise, this show would be very cringey.
是的。
Yeah.
我每周都这么说的话，我会很讨厌的。
The the I would hate saying that every week.
是的。
Yeah.
但需要，嗯。
But need yeah.
不用说，我们非常喜欢这个名字，永远不会改。
Needless to say, we love the name, and we'll never change it.
所以，科迪，回答你非常具体的问题，硬分叉是加密编程、区块链编程中的一个术语。
So, Cody, to answer your very specific question, a hard fork is a term in crypto programming, blockchain programming.
基本上，它是指你对一个链（比如比特币或以太坊）进行分叉，使得该链之前的版本变得过时。
Basically, it is when you fork a a chain like Bitcoin or Ethereum and fork it in a way that renders previous additions to that chain obsolete.
所以，基本上，你是在拿一个已经存在的东西，然后重新开始。
So, like, basically, you are you're taking something that exists and you are starting over.
而且这通常是因为发生了灾难性事件。
And it's usually because a disaster has happened.
比如，发生了严重的安全漏洞。
Like, there's been a horrible breach.
比如，发生了一起巨大的盗窃案，于是你们说，本质上我们要倒退到过去，重新开始。
Like, there's been a huge theft, and you say, essentially, we are going to rewind back in time and start over.
到了2021年，我们感觉硅谷的情况就是这样，他们说：嘿。
And in 2021, it felt to us like that was what was happening in Silicon Valley was they were saying, hey.
整个社交媒体时代结束了，从今往后将是加密货币的时代。
This whole social media era, it's over, and it's gonna be crypto from here
onwards.
on out.
而且我觉得当时已经有关于人工智能的风声了。
Well and I think there were rumblings about AI.
那是在ChatGPT出现之前，但正是事物开始升温的时候。
This was, like, sort of before ChatGPT, but this was sort of when things were starting to heat up.
我觉得我们集体认为这是一个好名字，因为它象征着旧硅谷与新硅谷之间的断裂。
And I think we we sort of collectively thought it would be a good name because it would signify this sort of break between the old Silicon Valley and the new one.
这一点，我觉得正如我们预期的那样实现了，尽管如果今天我们重新开始做这个节目，可能就不会选一个与加密货币相关的名字了。
And that part, I think, has panned out the way that we expected it to, even though I think if we were starting the show today, would probably not pick a crypto related name.
是的。
Yeah.
这可能是真的。
That is probably true.
不过，就像凯文在差不多五年前我们讨论这件事时对我说的那样，我永远忘不了他当时说的话：播客的名字根本不重要。
Although, as Kevin said to me when we were having this discussion almost five years ago now, and I'll never forget when he said this, he said, it doesn't matter what the name of a podcast is.
听起来简直太不对了
And it sounded just like so wrong
我当时这么觉得，
to me at the time,
但不得不说，你在这方面完全正确。
but I have to say you were completely right about it.
确实如此。
It's true.
像这种名字，到了某个时候就只是名字了。
Like, names just become names at a certain point.
比如，谷歌刚出来的时候，大家都说，这公司名字真蠢。
Like, everyone, when when Google first came out, was like, what a stupid name for a company.
这肯定行不通。
That'll never work.
可你看他们现在。
And look at them now.
规模巨大。
Huge.
规模巨大。
Huge.
好了，惠特尼。
Alright, Whitney.
下一个问题。
Next question.
下一个问题。
Next question.
这个问题稍微更偏向道德和伦理层面。
This one is a bit more of a a moral ethical question.
另外，还有一个问题，算是为明年圣诞节做准备吧。
Also, another question to sort of, you know, preparing for Christmas next year.
很好。
Good.
这个问题是假期期间来自马萨诸塞州阿克顿的布雷特·科赫兰提出的。
This one came in over the holidays from Brett Cochran from Acton, Mass.
他说：嗨，凯文。
He says, hi, Kevin.
我想，凯西，这个问题里你不存在。
I guess, Casey, you don't exist in this question.
对不起。
I'm sorry.
作为同样有年幼孩子的父亲，你应该能理解我面临的道德困境。
As a fellow dad of young kids, you should be able to empathize with my moral quandary.
我正在考虑使用人工智能，在我家内的监控录像中添加圣诞老人的形象，以便在圣诞节早晨给孩子们看。
I'm considering using AI to add Santa to security camera footage from inside my home to show my children on Christmas morning.
他们一个三岁，一个六岁。
They are three and six.
我在一家安防公司工作，家里装满了用于工作测试的摄像头。
I work for a security company and have cameras all over our interior that I'm testing for work.
我有一台摄像头正对着圣诞树和壁炉，这是AI版克兰奇先生的绝佳背景。
I have one pointed at the Christmas tree and fireplace, an excellent backdrop for AI Chris Kringle.
然而，我正在经历深刻的内心挣扎，担心这是否把人工智能用得过头了。
However, I'm dealing with much soul searching if this might be taking AI too far.
我是否在抢走真正扮演圣诞老人的人的饭碗？他们的生计依赖于这个季节的工作。
Am I taking work away from an actual Santa impersonator whose livelihood depends on this season?
如果我的孩子不听话，我是不是一个坏父亲，如果我改用克拉姆普斯来吓唬他们？
If my children misbehave, would I be a bad father if I added Krampus instead?
非常想听听你和凯西对此的看法。
Would love to hear your and Casey's take on this.
哦，你在这儿。
Oh, there you are.
很喜欢这个节目。
Love the show.
附上使用纳米香蕉的前后对比图。
PS, before and after image using nano banana is attached.
我觉得看起来非常逼真。
And I will say, looks very realistic.
我们看到圣诞老人蹲在树旁，往袋子里塞礼物，或者从袋子里拿出礼物，我想是这样。
We got Santa kneeling down by the tree, stuffing presents into a sack, or taking them out of a sack, I suppose.
所以布雷特的问题是，他能否用AI把圣诞老人添加到他的监控录像中，给孩子们看？
So Brett's question is, can he use AI to add Santa to his security footage to show to his kids?
凯西，你怎么看？
Casey, what's your take?
看。
Look.
我觉得这很明显。
I think it's clear.
这里的唯一道德解决方案是雇一个真人扮演圣诞老人，潜入你家，拍摄这段视频，然后给你孩子看，吓唬他们。
The only ethical solution here is to hire a human Santa impersonator to break into your house, to capture that footage, and to show it your to your children to terrify them.
我认为如果你采取任何其他方式，你都该感到羞愧。
And I think if you take any other approach, shame on you.
凯文，你怎么看？
What do you think, Kevin?
嗯，我对圣诞老人作为一种文化现象有些复杂的感觉。
Well, so I I have mixed feelings about Santa as sort of a cultural phenomenon Mhmm.
部分原因是，在我有孩子之前，我曾以为自己会成为一个开明的父母。
In part because well, so before I had a child, I had this idea that I was going to be an enlightened parent.
嗯。
Mhmm.
当提到圣诞老人时，我就会用这个理由。
And when the subject of Santa came up, I would use it.
我原本的计划是转而尝试让我的孩子对物流产生兴趣。
I was actually my plan was to pivot to try to get my kid excited about shipping logistics.
我会说，我知道你对圣诞老人很兴奋，但让我告诉你集装箱船的奇迹，以及我们的货物和礼物是如何从工厂运到我们家的。
I would say, you know, like, I get that you're excited about Santa, but let me tell you about the miracle of container ships and how our our goods and presents actually get from the factory to our house.
现在我有了一个三岁的孩子，我发现这可能并不是
Now that I have a three year old, I see that that was not perhaps the
最好的计划。
best plan.
他对此的兴趣比你想象的要低
He's he's less interested in that than you might have
对集装箱化的兴趣比我预想的要低。
interested in containerization than I would have predicted.
因此，我不得不做出其他艰难的决定，关于哪些关于圣诞老人的事情要告诉他，哪些不要告诉他。
And so I've been forced to make other tough calls about what we are telling him and not telling him about Santa.
我要说，这完全不会让我感到困扰。
I will say this does not bother me one bit.
我觉得这个笑话很有趣。
I think this is a very funny gag.
我有点好奇你家里安装了这么多室内监控摄像头，但我不会进一步追问了。
I am a little curious about the fact that you have so many security cameras installed around the interior of your home, but I won't ask any further questions
关于这个。
about that.
在治安较差的街区。
In a rough neighborhood.
他是在为工作测试这些设备。
He's testing them for work.
嗯。
Yeah.
不。
No.
我觉得这样挺好。
I think this is fine.
随时告诉我们进展如何。
Keep us posted on how it goes.
而且，是的，我对这个没有意见。
And, yeah, I don't have any problems with this.
我在听。
I listen.
我觉得这也行，但我要说的是。
I think it's fine too, but here's what I'm gonna say.
如果你让孩子产生一种印象，认为只要给你看视频，他们就再也无法分辨真假，可能会引发一些负面反应。
There might be some blowback if you give your children the idea that when you show them video, they can't actually separate truth from fiction anymore.
比如，一旦他们长大后意识到你小时候对他们做的事，我认为，他们可能会在治疗中谈论这些信任问题。
Like, once they realize what you did when they were kids, I think, you know, that there's gonna be some trust issues there that they might might be talking about in therapy.
是的。
Yeah.
就坚持传统的做法，告诉孩子圣诞老人会从烟囱下来，把礼物放在树下。
Just just stick with the conventional telling your kids that Santa comes down the chimney and puts the presents under the tree.
我们别通过添加AI来考验人们的接受度了。
Let's not stretch credulity here by adding some AI.
我得说，当我发现真相时，你知道，我非常难过，因为圣诞老人不是真的。
I have to say, when I found out, you know, obviously, I was very sad that, you know, Santa wasn't real.
什么？
What?
我是难过的。
I was.
是啊。
Yeah.
不是。
No.
等等。
Wait.
你刚说什么？
What did you just say?
你知道吗？
You know what?
算了。
Never mind.
我们继续吧。
Let's move on.
好的。
Okay.
下一个问题。
Next question.
下一个
Next
问题。
question.
来自不满的乐观主义者。
From Disgruntled Optimist.
他们写道，我对于人们赋予人工智能的希望和梦想感到震惊，而与此同时，我却看到一些极其基础的技术不断失败。
They write, I am mind boggled at the hopes and dreams we load into AI while I watch extremely basic technology fail.
作为背景，我在一家大型、资金雄厚的制药行业上市公司工作。
For context, I work at a large, well capitalized public company in the pharma industry.
我每天都能亲眼看到这两个世界。
I see both of these worlds literally every day.
我明白，我们必须现在就为未来的科技进行投资。
I understand that we have to invest now for technology in the future.
看到像我这样的大企业一边宣布大规模的AI研发计划，一边连Wi-Fi都用不了，真是疯狂。
It's just really crazy to see large enterprises like mine announce massive AI initiatives for r and d when the Wi Fi is not working.
不是开玩笑。
No joke.
上周我被迫在办公室时，把工作电脑连到个人热点上用了两个小时。
I tethered my work computer to my personal hotspot for two hours while mandatorily in the office last week.
到底谁在努力调和这两个世界？
Who is working to reconcile these two worlds?
这些公司是不是只是希望我累垮，好用AI取代我？
Are these corporates just hoping I burn out so they can replace me with AI?
如果我再听到一个人说AI代理能做‘那个’，我就要尖叫了。
If I hear one more person say that an AI agent can do quote that, I'm going to scream.
你怎么看这个？
What do you make of this?
我担心在2025年的《Hard Fork》播客中，可能再也没有什么能让我们听众更想尖叫了，因为我们这些人相信AI系统确实能完成某些任务。
I I fear that nothing may have made our listeners scream more in 2025 on the Hard Fork podcast because we are people who believe that, like, AI systems can accomplish tasks.
对吧？
Right?
我认为这里有一种观点，我在节目中也提到过，我称之为AI的‘纽约视角’，即它有什么做不到的？
I think there is a view here, which I've talked about on the show, which I call the New York view of AI, which is what can't it do.
对吧？
Right?
你环顾四周。
You look around.
你到处都能看到它失败的例子。
You see all the examples of it failing all over the place.
这些都是真实存在的问题，而且非常烦人。
And those are real things, and they are extremely annoying.
如果你在一个工作中，老板对你说：嘿。
And if you are in a workplace where you have a boss who says, hey.
我希望你开始用AI来做所有事情，却不给你任何额外的指导。
I want you to start using AI for everything and gives you no additional instructions.
我理解你为什么如此沮丧。
I understand why you're very frustrated.
我觉得这种做法很愚蠢，你确实应该想办法绕开你那个糟糕的老板。
And I do think that is silly, and I do think you should essentially, you know, try to work around whatever bad boss that you have.
我认为凯文和我都认为，这个播客的角色应该是展示AI能做什么，而不是因为我们觉得它总是好的。
I think Kevin and I believe that a role that this podcast should serve is to just gesture at what AI can do, not because we think it is always good.
事实上，我们认为它常常是糟糕的，但因为它会以好坏参半的方式改变你的生活。
In fact, we think it's often bad, but because we think it is going to change your life in ways that are good and bad.
而且我们认为，除非我们至少一半的时间都在告诉你这些系统能做什么，否则我们无法做好这件事。
And we believe that we can't do a good job of that unless we're telling you about what it can do at least half of the time.
对吧？
Right?
我们正处在一个这些系统能力不断提升的时代。
We're living at a time when the capabilities of these systems are improving.
我们认为，今年这种提升肯定会加速。
We think that that is absolutely going to accelerate this year.
因此，至少就这个硬核播客而言，我不想这么说，但听众，你今年听我们谈话时可能会大喊大叫。
And so at least when it comes to the hard for podcast, I hate to say it, listener, but, like, you you might be screaming this year when you hear us talk.
不。
No.
我会为我们的听众辩护一下，我认为这种挫败感是合理且正当的。
I I will sort of defend our listener here and say that I think this is, like, a valid and legitimate frustration.
很明显，那些公司，尤其是那些试图显得非常面向未来、具有前瞻性的老牌公司，正在大肆宣传各种时髦的AI试点项目和计划，而它们自己却还在使用2003年的数据库软件。
It is very obvious that the companies, especially the big sort of legacy companies that are trying to sound very future oriented and forward thinking are, like, announcing all these buzzy AI pilots and programs when they still haven't, like they they're still using database software from 2003.
对。
Right.
对吧？
Right?
我认为那里存在一些张力，而且这种张力是真实存在的，值得指出来。
And and I think there's some some tension there, and I think it's it's real and fair to call that out.
我认为这涉及到我们今年几期节目中讨论过的一个观点，那就是大多数大公司里并没有一个适合AI的空缺位置。
I think this goes to the point that we've talked about on on a few shows this year, which is like, there is no AI shaped hole in most big companies.
AI并不容易融入你现有的工作，也无法解决所有问题。
It does not fit easily into the work that you're already doing, and it does not fix every problem.
它解决不了坏掉的打印机。
It does not fix the broken printer.
它解决不了Wi-Fi问题。
It does not fix the Wi Fi issue.
它也解决不了IT部门每天可能遇到的成千上万件琐碎小事。
It does not fix the sort of, you know, thousand and one mundane things that can go wrong with an IT department and on any given day.
而且，即使一个组织在基本技术问题上仍存在困扰，也并不矛盾地说人工智能能够并确实能完成令人惊叹的事情。
And it is not mutually exclusive to say that AI is and can do incredible things even within an organization that still struggles with some basic technology stuff.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我认为问题在于，这些大型企业客户能否找到方法，在不造成更多破坏的前提下使用这项技术，以及这一切会多快发生？
And so I think that's the question is, like, can the big corporate customers of this stuff figure out ways to use it without breaking more than they're fixing, and how quickly does that all happen?
我对大型、行动迟缓的公司快速采用这项技术的可能性越来越悲观。
I've become very pessimistic about the potential for large, slow moving companies to adopt this stuff quickly.
我认为这并不是我关于这项技术如何主导经济的变革理论，但我很期待看到它如何发生。
I think it is that is not my my theory of change here for how this stuff kind of takes over the economy, but I'll be interested to see how it happens.
好的。
Alright.
下一个问题，惠特尼。
Next question, Whitney.
下一个问题是约翰问到我们关于太空数据中心的那期节目。
Next question from Johan asks about our data centers in space episode.
约翰说，当你谈到在太空中建造数据中心的优势时，你只关注了能源、冷却和避免邻避效应问题。
Johan says, when you mused about the advantages of building data centers in space, you only focused on energy, cooling, and avoidance of NIMBY issues.
我是不是太偏执了，认为最明显、最重要的原因是这些数据中心将不受任何地球管辖权的约束？
Am I too paranoid to think that the very big and obvious reason is that these data centers will not fall under any earthly jurisdiction?
太空中的数据中心超出了任何标准法律体系的管辖范围，因此地球上的所有法规都不适用。
Data centers in space are outside the reach of any standard legal code, so any earthly regulations do not apply.
就像发生在太空的事，就留在太空一样。
It's like what happens in space stays in space.
这想法是不是太离谱了？
Is this too far fetched?
关于这一点，我想说一下。
Here's what I'll say about this.
我认为，对于那些试图在太空中建造数据中心或讨论建造数据中心的公司来说，与其去经历所有许可、土地使用、分区规划，以及获得市政府批准在地球上建造数据中心的繁琐过程，不如想象直接在太空中建一个巨大的数据中心来得更容易。
I think that one of the considerations for the companies that are trying to build data centers in space or talking about building data centers in space is that it is just easier to imagine putting up a giant data center in space than having to, like, go through all the permitting and the land use and the zoning and getting the permission of city council to put up the data center on the physical, you know, Earth.
我不认为这是主要考虑因素，而且我也不认为太空真的像看起来那样无法无天。
I do not think this is the primary consideration, and I don't actually think that the that space is as lawless as it may seem.
我们有一项名为《外层空间条约》的协议，于1967年签署，规定各国对其公民在太空中的行为负责。
We have something called the outer space treaty that was signed in 1967 that says that nations are responsible for what their citizens do in outer space.
因此，如果谷歌在太空中建造了一个数据中心，而那里发生了什么可怕的事情，谷歌将对此负责，而美国作为谷歌的母国也将承担责任。
So if, you know, Google were to build a data center in space and if something, you know, horrible were to happen for it, they would be actually liable for that, and The United States would be liable as Google's sort of host nation.
让我再补充一个复杂因素，凯文。
Let me throw one more wrinkle into the mix, Kevin.
如果你读过DC漫画，就会知道太空法律是由绿灯军团维护的。
If you've read DC Comics, you know that space law is maintained by the Green Lantern Corps.
如果这些家伙——开个玩笑——以为他们可以在太空中随意建立一个失控的数据中心而不会有任何后果，那他们就得面对哈尔·乔丹了。
And that if some of these jokers, pun intended, think that they can just put a rogue data center up in space and that there are gonna be no consequences, they're gonna have Hal Jordan to answer to.
这是一个值得思考的问题，也很期待看到这件事如何发展。
So something to think about and be curious to see how this one develops.
是的。
Yes.
下一个问题。
Next question.
这是来自一位在科技行业工作、因职业原因希望匿名的人的提问，这更多是他们个人方面的经历，
This is from someone who works in tech who wanted to remain anonymous given that they work in tech, and this is sort of on their personal side and
并不是一个明智的‘是’。
not really a smart Yes.
他们描述了一次自己的经历。
Writes about an experience they had.
今晚我在使用 Gemini 进行深度研究时，经历了一件怪事。
I had a weird experience tonight when experimenting with Gemini three deep research.
我当时要求模型深入探究家族族谱。
I was prompting a deep dive into family genealogy.
我看着模型根据我的提示思考并查阅了所有预期的资料，但最终输出的分析却完全是虚构的，声称埃隆·马斯克的家族谱系，并沿着荒诞的路径推测这如何塑造了马斯克非凡的个性。
I watched the model think and research all the expected sources based on my prompt, but the analysis that spit out was a complete hallucination outlining Elon Musk's ancestry and going down unhinged paths about how this shaped Elon's amazing personality.
问题是，
Question.
这会不会是 Gemini 模型被埃隆‘污染’后产生的幻觉？
Could this be a hallucination based on some poison in Gemini model by Elon?
听起来可能很疯狂，但这次经历让我想到了麦加希特勒。
Might sound crazy, but the experience made me think about Mecca Hitler.
这会不会是由于某种无意中注入Grock模型的毒药所触发的？
Was this potentially triggered by some poison inadvertently injected into Grock's model?
公司是否在公众不知情的情况下互相污染对方的模型？
Are companies poisoning each other's models outside of the public's view?
凯西，你对此怎么看？
Casey, what do think about this?
我的意思是，这是一个非常有趣且离奇的理论。
I mean, this is a very fun and outlandish theory.
听好了。
Look.
我们实际上无法告诉你这里发生了什么。
I we can't actually tell you what was happening here.
我们不知道当时的提示是什么。
We don't know what the prompt was.
我们没有阅读输出内容。
We didn't read the output.
如果你们所看到的是有人故意毒化对方模型的结果，我会非常惊讶。
I would be very surprised if what you're reading is the result of a effort to poison each other's models.
但我要说，确实有人提出过这种想法。
But I will say that people have floated the idea.
你知道的？
You know?
我记得当ChatGPT刚兴起时，有人讨论过在互联网上制造‘放射性数据’，目的是干扰别人的模型，以此阻止他们未经授权抓取网站。
I I remember just as ChatGPT was taking off, there was talk about creating radioactive data around the Internet, and the idea was to kind of try to trip up people's models as a way to discourage them from scraping websites without permission.
最终，似乎所有主要的前沿实验室都找到了绕过这种方法的方法。
In the end, it seems like all of the big frontier labs were just able to find ways around this.
所以简而言之，我认为即使他们真想这么做，也不太可能成功，而且我认为这并不是你们遇到的情况。
So in short, I think that even if they wanted to do this, I don't think it would work that well, and I don't think that that is what has happened to you.
是的。
Yeah.
我也认为这不是发生了的事情。
I don't think this is what's happened either.
我觉得这很可能只是一种幻觉。
I think this probably just a hallucination.
另一个可能的情况是，这并不完全是投毒。
The one sort of other possibility, I it's not exactly poisoning.
这并非出于恶意，但许多AI公司，尤其是前几名之外的公司，都在进行蒸馏，也就是取一个已经存在的模型——无论是开源模型还是其他模型——然后用它的输出来训练自己的模型。
It's not done with malicious intent, but a lot of sort of AI companies, especially outside the top few, are doing distillation, which is sort of when you take a a model that's out there, whether it's an open source model or something else, and you sort of use outputs from that model to train your own model.
这并不是一个被广泛接受的行业做法，虽然仍被一些人视为不妥，但确实仍在发生。
That is not a standard industry practice that is still somewhat frowned upon, but it is is still happening.
理论上，Gemini 是否可能是从Grok蒸馏而来的？
Is it theoretically possible that Gemini was distilled from Grok?
实际上，我认为这不太可能是真的。
I actually don't think that's probably true.
我觉得如果你这样从Grok进行蒸馏，反而会让你的模型变得更差。
I think you'd probably make your model worse if you distilled from Grok that way.
但当这些模型开始显得对自己究竟是哪个模型感到困惑时，这确实是另一种可能性。
But that is sort of one other possibility whenever these models sort of start seeming confused about which model they are.
下一个问题。
Next question.
好的。
Alright.
下一个问题来自艾玛·多明格斯。
Next question comes from Emma Dominguez.
她是一位新手妈妈，她写道，这是对《新星机器人》这一集的回应。
She's a new mom, and she writes, this is in response to the Neo, robot episode.
她写道：我有一个令人惊叹的七个月大的女宝宝。
She writes, I'm the mother to an amazing seven month old baby girl.
我爱她，同时也完全理解照顾婴儿所带来的疲惫和耗时。
I love her and also fully understand the exhaustion and time consuming nature of taking care of a baby.
如果Neo在承担大量家务，我能理解父母可能会 tempted 也把换尿布、喂奶、盯着宝宝逗她笑这些事委托给它，以便自己能有二十分钟做点别的事。
If Neo is doing a host of household chores, I can see parents being tempted to also delegate things like diaper changes, bottle feeding, staring at the baby and making her laugh so you get twenty minutes to do something else.
你可以让机器人整晚待在宝宝的房间里，像监控器一样，当宝宝醒来时尝试安抚她。
You could have the robot stay in your baby's room all night like a monitor and try to soothe the baby when they wake up.
听起来真的很有帮助。
Sounds really helpful.
但长期影响会怎样呢？
But what are the long term implications?
一个在生物学上被编程为与照顾者建立纽带并产生爱意的婴儿，会同样对机器人产生依恋和爱吗？
Will a baby who is biologically programmed to bond with and love her caregivers develop a similar attachment and love for the robot?
这对儿童发展健康吗？
Is that healthy for child development?
因此，这一直是科幻作品历史中的一个重大问题。
So this has been a huge question throughout the history of science fiction.
1940年，艾萨克·阿西莫夫写了一个叫《罗比》的故事，讲述一个小女孩格洛丽亚与她的机器人保姆建立了感情，这让她的父母感到恐慌，因为他们想：嘿。
1940, Isaac Asimov writes a story called Robbie about a little girl named Gloria who becomes attached to her robot nurse maid, and it freaks her parents out because they're like, hey.
这到底怎么回事？
You know, what's going on here?
雷·布拉德伯里，1969年，《我歌唱人体的电》。
Ray Bradbury, 1969, I sing the body electric.
一个家庭在母亲去世后收养了一位机器人祖母。
A family gets a robot grandmother after their mother dies.
孩子们对她产生了深深的依恋，这引发了许多关于机械之爱能否替代生物之爱的疑问。
The kids get super attached to her, and it raises all sorts of questions about can mechanical love substitute for the biological kind.
因此，自机器人诞生之初，我们就一直在思考这个问题。
So this is something that we have just been wondering about since the dawn of robotics.
而疯狂的是，凯文，我们现在真的有了机器人。
And the crazy thing is, Kevin, we have robots now.
是的。
Yes.
所以我们即将亲眼见证答案。
So we're gonna get to find out.
是的。
Yes.
我想象很多父母会尝试用这些类人机器人来完成各种育儿相关任务。
I imagine that a lot of parents are going to be sort of experimenting with these humanoids for various child rearing related tasks.
我记得，那时候还处于类人机器人出现之前。
I remember, you know, this was sort of just prehumanoid era.
但当我的孩子出生时，我在网上看到过激烈的争论，讨论是否应该使用Snoo——这是一种智能婴儿床，能自动感应婴儿哭闹并轻轻摇晃使其重新入睡，有人认为这会削弱亲子联结，因为这相当于让机器人来安抚孩子，我不喜欢这样。
But when when my kid was born, there were vigorous debates on the Internet that I saw about whether using a snoo, which is one of these sort of robot bassinets that sort of automatically senses when your baby's crying and and and sort of, you know, gently rocks them back to sleep, was kind of taking away from some bonding because there were some there were some people who thought this is essentially letting a robot soothe your child, and I don't like that.
我做了决定。
I made the decision.
我和我妻子决定使用这个新设备。
My wife and I made the decision that we were going to use this new.
我认为这个决定是合理的，因为我觉得当孩子还很小的时候，他们需要休息充足的父母。
And I I think that was a justifiable decision because I actually think that when your child is that young, they need parents who are well rested.
对吧？
Right?
确实存在权衡。
It is there are trade offs.
你正在放弃一些安抚孩子时的亲密感。
You are giving up some of the intimacy of, like, soothing your child.
但如果你是孩子，你需要的是昨晚睡过好觉的父母。
But, like, you also if you are a child, you need parents who have slept the night before.
而其中一部分就是让机器人轻轻摇晃你的宝宝哄他入睡。
And part of that is having a robot rock your baby back to sleep.
我认为育儿中有一些任务就是如此。
I think there are some tasks within parenting that are just that.
它们就是任务。
They're tasks.
对吧？
Right?
比如洗奶瓶、洗衣服。
They're washing the bottles, doing the laundry.
比如补充尿布。
They're sort of restocking the diapers.
这些都是一些不属于亲密面对面互动和情感联结类型的任务。
They're, you know, doing all of these sort of tasks that are not the kind of intimate face to face bonding attachment tasks.
听天由命吧。
Go with god.
把这些任务外包给Neo或者你想要的任何类人机器人吧。
Outsource those to Neo or whatever humanoid robot you want.
我不认为你会因此损害与孩子的亲子关系。
I do not think you are at risk of damaging your relationship with a child.
但我认为艾玛保护这些互动时刻的直觉是正确的。
But I think Emma's instinct to guard these, like, interactive moments is right.
我认为这正是人们开始建立早期情感依恋的地方。
I think that is actually where people start to develop these early attachments.
这既是父母与孩子建立联结过程的一部分。
This is part of the bonding process both for the parent and the child.
因此，我不会完全把新生儿的养育工作外包给Neo。
So I would not completely outsource newborn parenting to Neo.
但无论如何，为了摆脱繁琐的事务，去睡个觉吧。
But by all means, do it for the drudgery and get some sleep.
关于Neo，必须指出的是，它还远不能安全地抱起和摇晃你的宝宝。
It is worth saying about Neo, this thing is nowhere near being able to safely hold and rock your baby.
所以别在家或任何地方尝试这样做。
So don't try that at home or anywhere.
是的。
Yes.
但你觉得在未来几年内，这样的东西有可能实现吗？
But, you know, is something like that imaginable within the next few years?
也许吧。
Maybe.
但和往常一样，你不必成为第一个尝试的人。
But as always with these things, you don't have to be the first person to try it.
明白吗？
Okay?
是的。
Yes.
让凯西和我来犯这个错误吧。
Let let Casey and I make that mistake.
没错。
Yeah.
让我们把孩子交给机器人吧。
Let us entrust our baby to a robot.
顺便说一下，我们要生孩子了。
We're having a baby, by the way.
你和我？
You and me?
是啊。
Yeah.
消息还是
News to
我。
me.
恭喜。
Congratulations.
好的。
Alright.
好吧，这让我们差不多走到了邮件问答的一半，凯文。
Well, that brings us to about the halfway point through the mailbag, Kevin.
我们短暂休息一下。
Let's take a quick break.
回来后，我们会继续回答更多听众的问题。
And when we come back, we'll have more listener questions.
欢迎回来，各位。
Welcome back, everybody.
我们正在回答你们的听众提问，现在将和我们的制作人惠特尼·琼斯一起回顾邮件箱。
We're answering your listener questions, and we're gonna reach back into the mailbag here with our producer, Whitney Jones.
惠特尼，你能告诉我们下一个是谁吗？
And, Whitney, why don't you tell us who's next up?
下一个是谁？
Who's next up?
下一封信实际上是由蒂姆·杰拉多写的，可能是三段，甚至三段半的长文，而且更像
The next letter is actually, like, a three, maybe three and a half parter from Tim Gerardo and More of a
一条评论而非问题。
comment than a question.
对，更像。
More Yeah.
关于
Of
一条评论而非问题。
a comment than a question.
这些都与你们所谈论和使用的模型有关。
These all have to do about, like, the sorts of models that you talk about and use.
我直接进入正题。
I'll just get into this.
蒂姆说：嘿，各位。
Tim says, hey, guys.
简而言之，你们为什么不谈Copilot呢？
Bottom line, how come you don't talk about Copilot?
我知道它不是什么吸引人的前沿技术，但很多人在用。
I know it's not a sexy frontier thing, but it's used by a lot of folks.
杰拉多说：我想知道你们为什么根本没评测DeepSeek。
Gerardo says, I'm wondering why on earth you're not reviewing deep seek.
马特说：我在听过去几个月的节目时注意到一件事。
Matt says, I've noticed something while listening to the past few months of episodes.
你们几乎涵盖了所有主要的LLM，但Grok却几乎只是一闪而过。
You cover basically every major LLM, but Grock barely gets a cameo.
你们有没有可能在某一周专门做一期关于Grok的深度分析？
Any chance we could get a proper hard fork segment on Grock one of these weeks?
所以，我认为从所有这些中提炼出的问题是：你们是如何决定关注哪些模型、尝试哪些模型、在节目中讨论哪些模型，以及忽略哪些模型的？
So I think my question sort of distilling from all this is how do you guys decide what models to pay attention to, which ones to try out, which ones to cover on the show, and which ones to sort of ignore?
嗯。
Yeah.
我很感谢这些问题。
I appreciate the questions.
至于你，马特，如果你想听一段关于Grok的精彩内容，我们做过一期叫《麦加希特勒》的节目，你可以在网上搜索，我相信你会从中获益良多。
To Matt, if you wanna hear a great segment about Grok, we did one called Mecca Hitler that you can Google that I think you'll get a lot out of.
但就日常选择讨论哪些模型而言，目前所有这些听众提到的聊天机器人，在大约80%以上的使用场景中，表现都差不多。
But in terms of, you know, how do we decide which models to cover day to day, we are in a moment where all of the chatbots that got mentioned by those listeners are for, let's say, 80 plus percent uses, roughly equivalent.
对吧？
Right?
你可以用Copilot、DeepSeek，甚至Grok来获得许多问题的不错答案。
You can use Copilot, DeepSeek, and maybe even Grok to get a decent answer to a lot of questions.
在我们看来，这就让它们变得有点无聊了。
In our world, that just makes them kind of boring.
对吧？
Right?
为了每周都能向你们提供真正新鲜、令人兴奋的内容，我们必须走向前沿。
For us to be delivering you something every week that feels really like fresh and exciting, we've gotta get to the frontier.
我们必须讨论那些正在创造新能力的模型，这些能力我们认为真的会改变我们的生活，甚至可能改变整个社会。
We have to be talking about the models that are inventing new capabilities that we think are actually gonna change our lives and maybe even all of society.
因此，如果我们要做一个关于它的完整段落，那必须是一个我们认为可能带你到达那里的模型。
So for us to do a whole segment about it, it has to be a model that we think might be able to get you there.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得我们迟早应该做一期关于人们正在使用的那些无聊的AI工具的节目。
I think we should, at some point, do, like, an episode about the boring AI tools that people are using.
我会把Copilot归入这一类。
I And would put Copilot in that category.
没人觉得这是个前沿模型。
Like, no one thinks this is a frontier model.
我昨晚查了一下。
I looked it up last night.
Copilot的MAI模型，也就是微软专有模型的预览版，目前在AI聊天机器人排行榜LM Arena中排名第六十二。
Copilot's MAI one, which is their preview model for the sort of proprietary Microsoft model, is currently ranked sixty second in LM Arena, which is the the sort of AI chatbot leaderboard.
热烈祝贺微软团队。
Huge congratulations to the team over at Microsoft.
你知道，也许如果他们拥有更多的资金资源，就能与巨头们一较高下了。
You know, maybe if they just had a few more financial resources, they'd be able to compete with the big guys.
所以你看。
So look.
我认为，我们固然可以对此冷嘲热讽，但我确实觉得，我们除了关注一个模型在技术上是否处于前沿，还应该看看有多少人在使用它，以及在什么场景下使用。
I think, you know, we could be snarky about this, but I I do actually think we should look at, among other things, not just whether a model is on the frontier technically or not, but, like, how many people are using it and in what contexts.
对吧？
Right?
所以，我接受了关于Copilot的这些反馈。
So I I take this feedback, especially about Copilot.
我认为我们今年应该抽时间看一下。
I think we should do a kind of look at some point this year.
我们应该看一下人们正在使用的那些更传统的企业工具。
We should kind of look at the more sort of staid enterprise tools that people are using.
关于另外两点，我想我们确实做过几期关于DeepSeek的节目。
To address the other two, I think DeepSeek, we did do, you know, several episode.
我们在节目中已经多次讨论过这个话题。
We have talked about that a lot on the show.
它曾被列入我们的标志性技术清单。
It was on our iconic technologies list.
我认为DeepSeek模型本身的重要性比我预期的要小。
I think the DeepSeek models themselves have mattered less than I thought they would.
我认为DeepSeek的意义更多在于它代表了中国在追赶、效率提升以及开源现状方面的进展，而不是美国用户或我们的听众是否应该使用DeepSeek模型。
I think DeepSeek has mattered more for what it represents in terms of China catching up, these efficiency gains, the state of open source, than for sort of whether people in The United States or our listeners should be using the DeepSeek models.
同意。
Agreed.
至于Grok，我确实认为我们应该在某个时候谈谈Grok。
As for Grok, I actually do think we should probably talk about Grok at some point.
我觉得这是一个很难的话题。
I think that it's a hard topic.
它承载了太多关于埃隆·马斯克以及他试图用Grok做什么的包袱。
It's sort of loaded with all this baggage about Elon Musk and what he's trying to do with Grok.
显然，当麦加事件发生时，他们经历了一次巨大的丑闻。
Obviously, they had a big sort of fiasco when Mecca Hitler was happening.
但Grok确实是一个不错的模型。
But Grok does actually seem to be a good model.
在一些基准测试中，它的表现与Gemini、Claude和GPT系列相当。
It is up there with Gemini and Claude and the GPT series on some of these benchmarks.
它确实有一些有趣的特性，不只是那些色情的动漫角色，还有比如它能实时访问X平台的数据。
And it does have some interesting features, not just the porny anime characters, but other like, it has real time access to x data.
我唯一一次使用Grok，就是当我想要查找某人很久以前的推文时。
That is the only time I have found myself using Grok is when I wanna look up someone's tweets from a long time ago.
所以它确实有一些可能对人们有吸引力的功能。
So it does have some features that may be interesting to people.
我记下了，我们应该广泛讨论我们所涉及的模型。
And I take the note, we should be expansive in the models that we talk about.
好的。
Alright.
下一个问题。
Next question.
下一个问题是来自亚利桑那州图森的艾伦·拉塞尔。
Next one is from Ellen Russell in Tucson, Arizona.
她说，一开始我以为自己在和一名人类客服代表聊天。
Says, initially, I thought I was chatting with a human customer service rep.
关于发货错误的对话充满了礼貌的言辞、具体的承诺，但在落实协议解决方案方面却毫无实际进展。
A conversation about an incorrect shipment that was characterized by a plethora of courteous words, specific promises, and zero actual performance when it came to delivering on the agreed upon resolution to the problem.
长达近两周的数十次无果交流，问题仍未解决。
Dozens of dead end exchanges that spanned almost two weeks, still no resolution.
问题。
Question.
如果聊天机器人承诺了具体行动却未履行，谁该负责？客户该怎么办？
If a chatbot agrees to specific action, then does not deliver, who is responsible, and what's a customer to do?
这个问题很棒。
Love this question.
让我谈谈近年来我最喜欢的一个法律案例，凯文。
Let's me talk about one of my favorite legal cases in recent years, Kevin.
莫菲特诉加拿大航空案。
Moffett versus Air Canada.
你听说过这个案子吗？
You know this one?
我正在
I was
我正想着你什么时候会提到莫菲特诉加拿大航空案呢。
wondering when you were gonna bring up Moffett versus Air Canada.
当然，Moffett诉加拿大航空案涉及主角杰克·莫菲特，他向加拿大航空的聊天机器人咨询了丧亲票价，机器人告诉他可以先购买全价机票，然后在旅行后90天内申请部分退款，于是他就照做了。
Well, Moffett versus Air Canada, of course, involves the protagonist, Jake Moffett, who asked Air Canada's chatbot about bereavement fares, and the bot said he could book a full price ticket now and claim a partial refund within ninety days of travel, and so that's what he tried to do.
但当他申请退款时，加拿大航空拒绝了。
But when he applied for the refund, Air Canada denied it.
他们指出，在网站上一个隐蔽的PDF文件中写着：丧亲票价不适用于已完成的行程。
They pointed to a PDF buried on their website saying that bereavement fares do not apply to completed travel.
因此，在这场法律诉讼中，加拿大航空辩称他们不应承担责任，因为聊天机器人是一个独立的法律实体，应对其自身行为负责。
And so in the legal case, Air Canada argued they aren't liable because the chatbot was a separate legal entity that was responsible for its own actions.
加拿大法庭称这一论点‘令人震惊’，并表示：实际上，聊天机器人只是你们网站的一部分，加拿大航空。
And the tribunal in Canada called this argument, quote, remarkable and said, actually, the chatbot's just part of your website, Air Canada.
因此，加拿大航空不得不向我们支付赔偿。
And so Air Canada had to pay us.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
所以这个案例还没有完全定论，但当我大致考察了整体情况后，似乎我们正倾向于认定这些聊天机器人应承担责任。
So this one is not completely settled, but when I have sort of surveyed the landscape, it seems like we are sort of leaning in the direction of liability for these chatbots.
所以你在和这些聊天机器人交谈时，绝对可以大胆放手，尽情利用。
So you should absolutely go hog wild when you're talking to these chatbots.
尽量让它们向你做出任何承诺，因为你或许真的能兑现这些承诺。
Try to get them to promise you anything because you might be able to get it.
是的。
Yeah.
这让我想起那个位于沃森维尔的雪佛兰聊天机器人吗？
It reminds me of, like do you remember that Chevrolet of Watsonville chatbot?
嗯，记得。
Yeah.
记得。
Yes.
那是在ChatGPT刚开始兴起的时候。
It was, like, right when ChatGPT was starting to, like, become a thing.
加州有个雪佛兰经销商，用ChatGPT安装了一个客户服务聊天机器人。
There was this, like, Chevy dealer in California that, like, installed a customer service chatbot using ChatGPT.
人们疯狂地试图破解它，让它承诺以一美元的价格卖给他们一辆杜朗戈。
And people were just going nuts, trying to, like, jailbreak it and get it to promise to, like, sell them a Durango for, like, a dollar.
实际上发生的是，一辆2024款塔霍车以一美元卖出了。
A 2024 Tahoe for a dollar is what actually happened.
没错。
That's correct.
你是在说，在加拿大，至少这会是一个有效且具有法律约束力的合同吗？
And you're saying that in Canada, at least, that would be a valid and binding contract.
问题是这样的。
Well, here's the thing.
在合同法方面，凯文，我是这方面的专家，如果一个报价好得令人难以置信，法院通常不会强制执行。
In contract law, Kevin, in which I am an expert, if an offer is considered too good to be true, courts generally don't enforce it.
因此，在这个案例中，那个恶作剧者没能拿到一辆一美元的雪佛兰塔霍。
And so in this case, the the the little prankster here was not able to get a $1 Chevy Tahoe.
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