我厌倦了不断尝试却屡屡失败

有时候，人们会好起来。

Like, sometimes people get better.

有时候，我们能帮到别人。

Sometimes we help people.

有时候，我们能产生影响。

Sometimes we have an impact.

这可能还不够。

It may not be enough.

我不是说这能替代他们真正需要的东西，但这是我们能给予的。

I'm not saying it's a substitute for what they need, but it's what we got to give.

喂？

Hello?

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

我刚才只是把Twitch那个标签页静音了。

I just had to mute the the Twitch tab.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

没关系。

That's okay.

好的。

Okay.

现在一切都好了。

Now it's it's all fine.

太好了。

Awesome.

欢迎你，朋友。

Welcome, my friend.

首先，谢谢你邀请我上直播。

Thanks for having me on stream, first of all.

不客气。

You're welcome.

感谢你来到这里，让这一切成为可能。

Thanks for being here and making it possible.

这需要两个人，所以功劳是大家的。

Well, it's it takes two, so, like, let's all take credit.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

我喜欢这种态度。

Love the attitude.

朋友，你怎么称呼？

What do you go by, my friend?

我叫朱莉娅。

My name is Julia.

好的。

Okay.

那么，朱莉娅，你想成为什么样的人，又是什么在阻碍你呢？

And, Julia, who do you wanna be and what's holding you back?

这听起来可能很基本，但我想成为一个真正能取得进展、实现自己目标的人。

So that is gonna sound super basic, but so I want to be someone who is actually able to make progress and achieve the things they set out to do.

而阻碍我的，是最近大概一年来，我一直在努力正常生活，但似乎无法以任何有意义的方式运作，而且我也似乎无法把情绪分开。

And what is holding me back is the fact that lately, for maybe the last year, I have been struggling to basically, like, function in any meaningful way and I also seem to not be able to compartmentalize my emotions.

所以，我生活的各个方面都在互相渗透，我几乎无法专注于任何事情，而且我经常感到精神疲惫。并不是说我没有取得过重要的成就，我以前确实取得过很多重要的成就，但在经历了这么多轮为了掩盖我的问题而过度补偿之后——这些问题看起来像是多动症和创伤后应激障碍，但我没有正式诊断，所以我只是先声明一下——然后我就会在过度补偿之后精疲力竭，而且我不再有以前那种对任何事情感到兴奋时的精神火花。

So like, all the areas of my life are bleeding into each other, so I can barely focus on anything and I'm constantly mentally exhausted and it's not like I have not achieved significant things before, like I've achieved a lot of significant stuff before, but after so many cycles of just overcompensating for my issues that like seem like ADHD and PTSD but I have no formal diagnosis so I'm just throwing that disclaimer out there, you know, and then I would burn out after overcompensating for all of that And I no longer have the mental spark that I used to feel when I would get motivated about anything anymore.

就像，我心里有一个目的地，也有想达到那里的理由，但钥匙和点火开关转不动，我就是无法启动这辆车。

Like, it's like I have a destination in mind and I have reasons why I want to get there, but the key and the ignition won't turn and I just can't start the car.

而且，即使我开始了，我也无法保持稳定，因为，你知道，感觉就像我一开始就是为了再次失败。

And like I even if I start I can stay consistent because, you know, it's it feels like I'm starting just so I can like fail again.

而且，我脑子里的理由甚至都不足以让我去做任何事情，因为大多数日子我连起床都很难。

And it's like the reasons that I have in my head are like not even enough anymore to, like, do anything because I can barely get myself out of bed most days.

你知道，比如，上班前大概三十分钟，那是我最近的记录。

You know, like, maybe thirty minutes before work, like, that's my record lately.

每天早上我又回到原点，这基本上没法活了。

And I'm back to Square 1 each morning, and it's no way to live, basically.

哇。

Wow.

听起来……抱歉。

That sounds Sorry.

不。

No.

我是说，我注意到的是，你真的很努力想摆脱这个困境，但几乎你越努力，精力就越耗尽。

I mean, I I'm just what I'm really noticing is that you're trying really hard to get out of this situation, but almost the more you try, the more you run out of energy.

而你精力越耗尽，就越难摆脱这个困境。

And the more that you run out of energy, the harder it is to get out of this situation.

对。

Yeah.

而且就是那种重新开始的感觉，因为我找到了一些对我有用的方法，但每次我都会因为情绪化而掉链子，就像我提到的其中一个困难，就是第二个。

And and it's just like the the whole feeling of, like, starting over because I found, like, I just find, like, a couple of strategies that work for me, but like each time I drop the ball because of, you know, because I am someone who's like very emotional and it's like one of the struggles that I mentioned, like that's the second one.

顺便说一句，这也很重要，因为这是我遇到的一个问题，比如我会被情绪淹没，甚至手都在发抖，真是的，现在就是这样。

And it's no less important by the way because this is one of the things like I would, you know, like get overwhelmed by emotions, even my hands are shaking, what the hell, right now.

所以我会被情绪淹没，或者我会精疲力竭，因为基本上，如果我在用策略，感觉就像我不是真正的自己，尽管我不想认同这些症状或这种功能障碍。

So I would get overwhelmed by emotions or I would get like burnt out because I'm essentially, you know, if I'm using like strategies, it feels like I'm not actually being who I am despite not wanting to, like, identify with the symptoms or, like, this dysfunction.

但是，当我试图变得有条理，像我以为其他人那样运作，虽然你可能不是那样，但就是，你知道，当事情变得足够严重时，我会重新开始，因为我是被负面后果驱动的，而不是被奖励驱动的，而且我知道那些方法有效。

But but, like, when I'm trying to be organized and function like I assume everybody else does, whether you probably don't, it's like I I just, you know, I get back into things after a while when things get critical enough because I'm motivated by negative consequences and not by rewards, you know, and and then the methods that I know work.

但它们就是激发不起任何东西。

They just don't spark anything.

我没有任何感觉。

I don't feel anything.

这很可怕，你知道吗？

And it's scary, you know?

因为，就像

Because, like

它是什么？

It it's what?

我有太多想实现的目标了。

Is so much that I want to achieve.

这很可怕吗？

It it's Is this scary?

你说什么？

I I'm sorry?

你说这很可怕。

You said it's scary.

确实，这让人恐惧。

It's like it's terrifying.

对。

Yeah.

因为当你什么都感觉不到，没有那种动力的时候，你就很难开始，或者至少需要付出更多的努力。

Because you don't feel anything and without that spark, like, you can't get, like or at least it it takes much more effort, like, when you don't feel that spark.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

就像，我们就要去做这件事。

Like, we're gonna do it.

我只是不再有那种感觉了。

I just don't have that anymore.

而且这……

And it's

没有那种激情，可以吗？

Is it okay to not have that spark?

我，是的。

I yeah.

我想这也可以，但只是，当你精神上那么疲惫的时候，我不是想装可怜，我发誓。

I I guess it is okay, but it just, like, when you're, like, that mentally exhausted, and I'm not trying to sound like a victim, I swear.

但你就是那么疲惫，因为你总是无法自我调节，这就像你无法把东西分类放好，工作时你不会想感情问题、朋友问题、心理健康问题，你只会一次专注于一件事。

Like, but you're just that mentally exhausted because you're constantly like you're not able to like self regulate which is like one of like the whole thing that you're not able to like you know like just put things into boxes and when you're at work you don't think about your like, the issues in your relationship and your issues with your friends and your, like, mental health issues, like, you just focus on one thing at a time.

我做不到。

I can't do that.

所有事情都同时涌来，一直如此，你知道吗。

It's everything at the same time, all the time, you know.

这导致我睡眠有问题，注意力有问题，几乎每件事都有问题。而且当你处于那种状态时，你会精疲力尽，一方面无法控制情绪，另一方面也无法调节行为，或者你可以用某些方法强迫自己，但本质上是在把自己塞进一个模子里，结果更累。当你没有那种热情时，你明白吗。

It's causing me issues with my sleep, it's causing me issues with focus, it's causing me issues with absolutely everything and like when you're someone like that, like you get exhausted and you can't relate your emotions on one hand and you cannot regulate your behaviors or like you can do it in like a forced artificial way using certain methods but you're just essentially forcing yourself into a mold and you get even more exhausted and when you don't have that spark, you know.

就像你实际上是在强迫自己，因为那不是自然而然发生的。而当你感受到那种热情时，比如，我不得不申请一份工作，为此做了很多科学相关的事情，然后我内心有个声音说：对，我们就要这么做。我整个周末断断续续地专注于这件事，而且并不觉得费力，因为感觉就像，嘿，你知道吗，我们会搞定的。

It's just like you're like actually forcing yourself because it doesn't come naturally to you and when you feel that spark, so like for example, I had to like apply for for a for a job and I had to do like a lot of science for that and it like something in me was just like yeah, we're gonna do it and I spent my entire weekend on and off like just focusing on that and it didn't take like a ton of effort because it felt like something hey, like, you know, we're gonna get that done.

那对我来说是自然而然的事情。

It just came naturally to me.

但是像家务和日常生活中的琐事，我称之为行政事务，比如做饭、打扫，甚至个人卫生，你知道吗，直到大概一个月前，对我来说都非常困难。

But like chores and like normal everyday life admin stuff is what I call it, like cooking, cleaning, like even hygiene, you know, was really hard for me up until like like maybe one month ago.

情况真的很糟，开始看起来像是某种抑郁。

Like it was really bad and started to seem like I was in some sort of like depression.

再说一次，没有诊断，但看起来就是这样。

Again, not diagnosed but it looked like that.

你知道，我想实现那些大目标，但我没有那些日常规律。

You know, I want to achieve the like the big ticket things but I don't have the the, like, the the routines.

我没办法养成习惯。

I can't form habits.

如果你连这些基本的事情都没有的话

If you don't have the the basic stuff

朱莉娅，我想插一句。

Julia Like I'm gonna jump in for a second.

好的。

Yeah.

抱歉。

I'm sorry.

不，没关系。

No.

没关系。

That's okay.

那我问你一个问题。

So let me ask you a question.

你是怎么决定要达成什么目标的？

How do you decide what to set out to achieve?

嗯，就是那样吧。

Well, blah blah blah.

好。

Okay.

我在想。

I'm loading.

听我沉默一会儿可能也挺有意思的。

It's probably cool to, like, hear me be silent for it.

我就是这个意思，当我说我的脑子停不下来，它真的停不下来。

That's what I'm saying like when I when I say my mind doesn't stop it doesn't stop.

所以，我觉得我并不是真的去决定什么，它就像是通过经验自然产生的。比如我看到自己在生活的某个方面对自己不满意，然后我就决定，嘿，我想换成什么样的方式。所以也许是通过比较，我现在在哪里，我想去哪里，还有通过经验，比如我经历过这种情况，或者我现在正处于这种情况，而我更希望处于另一种情况。

So like I don't really I guess I don't really decide it just like comes like through experience like I see that I'm not satisfied with myself in like one area or another area of my life and I decide hey like what I would I want to do instead so maybe by comparison where am I and where would I want to be and also through experience like I've there in this situation or I I am in this situation right now, and I would rather be in another type of situation.

对吧？

Right?

所以基本上，我就是走一步看一步，随遇而安。

So that is kind of like, I just go through life winging it.

对。

Yeah.

而且，没有什么计划。

And there's, like, no there's no planning.

对。

Yeah.

所以我想，让我跟你分享一下。

So I think I think let let me just share with you.

首先，我很高兴你分享这些。

So first of all, I I'm so happy that you're sharing all this stuff.

有几件事值得思考。

Couple of things to think about.

第一，我感觉，这么说吧。

One is that I get the sense that so let let me put it this way.

生活中有时要灭火，有时要重建被烧毁的东西。

Sometimes in life, wherein we have to put out fires, and other times at life, we try to rebuild what's burnt down.

你明白吗？

Does that make sense?

对。

Yeah.

我感觉你现在是想同时做这两件事。

What I get the sense of is that you're trying to do both at the same time.

你的房子着火了。

You've got a house on fire.

你一边想灭火，一边想重建。

You're trying to build it and put out the fire at the same time.

你对此有共鸣吗？

Does that resonate with you at all?

是的。

Yeah.

确实是这样。

It does.

大概有一半吧，而且就像我一开始说的，我觉得每天早上醒来，我都像是从零开始，感觉我一直在努力建造一些东西，但总是烧毁了，因为我实在没法保持一致性。

Like, 50%, and it's like when I like, when I one of the first things that I said was, like, I feel like every morning, I I wake up and, like, I'm at square one, and it feels like I'm constantly trying to I am building something, and it burns down because I cannot be consistent to save my life.

而且，是的。

And it's Yeah.

所以就是一遍又一遍地重新开始。

So it is, like, starting over and over and over again.

对。

Yeah.

那么，现在的情况是这样的。

So here's what's going on.

我觉得你花了很多精力在建造一个房间，而隔壁的房间着火了。

I think you're spending a lot of energy building one room while the room next door is on fire.

所以当你晚上睡觉时，火势蔓延到了你付出的努力上。

So when you go to bed at night, the fire just spreads to the work that you put in.

然后第二天早上醒来，发现一切都烧光了。

And then you wake up the next morning, and it's burnt down.

所以实际上还没结束。

So practically aren't over.

所以实际上，我觉得这里有几个有意思的点，因为我听你说的是，你想实现你设定的目标，但我觉得我们听到的是，你给自己定的目标，你根本没有足够的精力去达成。

So practically, I think there are a couple of interesting things here because what what I'm hearing you say is that you want us achieve the things that you set out to achieve, but I think what we're hearing is that you'll set goals for yourself that you don't have the fuel to reach.

对吧？

Right?

你某天醒来，心里想，我想做到这件事。

You wake up on a particular day, and you're like, I wanna be able to do this.

但是，我没有听到你对自己有多疲惫有所认识，这其实是有原因的。

But there is I'm not hearing an appreciation, and there's a good reason for this.

我不是在怪你。

I'm not blaming you for this.

我没有听到你意识到自己已经筋疲力尽了。

I'm not hearing an appreciation for how running on empty you are.

而且有时候，我还听你说，这种情况已经持续了大约一年了。

And so sometimes, like, what I also heard you say that this has been going on for about a year.

所以，我想说的是，虽然听起来有点奇怪，但别担心要完成什么目标。

So, like, the this is where what I'd kinda say is that, like, I know it sounds kinda weird, but don't worry about achieving stuff.

先专注于稳定下来。

Worry about stabilizing.

对吧？

Right?

所以有时候，比如我想从世界的一个地方航行到另一个地方，但我的船有个洞，我的重点不应该放在张开帆、尽可能多地前进上。

So sometimes, like, if I'm trying to sail from one part of the world to another part of the world, and there's a hole in my boat, my focus should not be in, like, opening my sails and trying to make as much progress as I can.

而应该放在修补漏洞、舀出船里的水，让船准备好航行。

It should be in fixing the hole, bailing the water, and getting my ship ready to sail.

我听到的是，你现在有很多事情让你感到不堪重负。

What I'm sort of hearing from you is that there's a lot of stuff that's overwhelming you right now.

你还在不断给自己设定目标。

You continue to set goals for yourself.

当你给自己设定这些目标时，很难实现它们。

As you set those goals for yourself, it's hard to achieve them.

你可能会取得一些进展，但因为生活中其他方面的问题，比如情绪失调之类的，都在阻碍你，你无法持续投入精力去取得进展。

You may make some progress, but because all of these other dimensions of your life, emotional dysregulation, other kinds of things are, like, getting in the way, you can't consistently invest energy towards progress.

你觉得呢？

What do you think about that?

对。

Yeah.

首先，是的，我在想这个问题。

I first of all, yeah, I'm thinking thinking about that.

我得先缓一下。

I had to, like, take a minute.

所以这个周期已经持续一年了，但这种情况已经好多年了。我快24岁了，这大概从我记事起就开始了，我也不确定。

So like this this current cycle has been going on for a year but it's been that way for years like I'm 23 soon to be 24 and this has been going on for like maybe since I can remember, I don't know.

从我能够给自己设定目标开始就这样了，所以我觉得我能完成学业只是因为我还算聪明。

Ever since I was able to like set goals for myself, so I only I think I only got through school because I'm, I guess, sort of intelligent.

这真的很让人沮丧，因为感觉其他颜色的人也有这种情况，而且他也有多动症。

And it's like really frustrating because it feels like one of the other colors had that and he had ADHD as well.

所以你会觉得这应该很容易，但就是让人无比沮丧，因为你连基本的事情都做不完。

So, like you feel like it should be easy and like it's frustrating to no end because you can't get through the basic stuff.

所以，我一开始想说的是，你知道，这个循环是不是每年都会发生，甚至一年好几次。

Like, so what I was trying to say to to start with is is that, you know, is this cycle every year, multiple times even.

就像，你过度补偿，然后精疲力尽。

Like, you you overcompensate, you burn out.

你过度补偿，然后精疲力尽。

You overcompensate, you burn out.

然后你就困在同样的状态里，你并不是总能给自己设定新的目标。

And you are stuck with the same like, you don't make like, you don't always set new goals for yourself all the time.

你被困在一堆可能好几年都没能实现的目标上，因为总是没有足够的精力。

You're stuck on a set of goals that you have not been able to achieve maybe for years because there is never enough energy.

对。

Yep.

那么，朱莉娅，我想问你一个问题。

So, Julia, so let me ask you something.

过度补偿和倦怠。

Overcompensate and burnout.

过度补偿和倦怠。

Overcompensate and burnout.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

为什么你不能就补偿一下呢？

Why can't you just compensate?

为什么你非要过度补偿呢？

Why do you have to overcompensate?

是的。

Yeah.

因为平衡很难。

Because balance is hard.

平衡是什么？

What is balance?

是什么让平衡变得困难？

What makes balance hard?

平衡真的很难。

Balance is really hard.

是什么让它变得困难？

What makes it hard?

嗯，不是想倒苦水，但就是，我的成长经历吧。

Well well, not to trauma dump, but, like, just just my upbringing.

就像，我从来没有一个稳定的成年人榜样，可以让我观察他们的行为，看他们怎么处理日常生活。而且，我身边的大人，说实话，都不是什么好的榜样。

Like, I never had any sense of like a like a stable adult person that I could just watch their behavior, how they just operate in their normal daily life And, like, just kind of, like, learn through imitation because, like, adults in my life were just not great role models.

有些人甚至还有虐待倾向。

Some of them were abusive.

那真糟糕。

That sucks.

所以，不是想倒苦水，也不是说，哦，对我来说，这只是背景。

So, like, not to trauma dump, not to say, oh, like, for me, it's just background.

但是

But

不。

No.

我觉得这是很重要的背景。

I think it's important background.

谢谢你分享。

Thank you for sharing.

对。

Yeah.

所以当我们思考这个问题时，我脑子里冒出几件事。

So so as we kinda think about it, so, like, a couple things pop into my mind.

首先，朱莉娅，你提到了三种可能的诊断。

The first is that, Julia, you've mentioned three potential diagnoses.

你还提到了情绪调节困难。

You've also mentioned, like, difficulty regulating emotions.

所以这种情况我绝对建议进行临床评估。

So this is absolutely a situation where I would recommend a clinical evaluation.

我不知道这对你来说是否可行或容易获得。

I don't know how possible that is or accessible that is for you.

但正是因为这个原因，作为精神科医生，我发现有时候人们会试图把生活整理好。

But this this is exactly why, like so what I've sort of found as a psychiatrist is that sometimes people will try to put their lives together.

仅仅因为你正在整理生活，并不意味着精神疾病是原因。

And just because you're putting your lives together doesn't mean that mental illness is responsible.

但我可以向你保证，如果精神疾病在起作用，如果不治疗，试图整理生活将会困难得多。

But what I can guarantee you is that if mental illness is at play, it's gonna be a hell of a lot harder to try to put your life together if it's untreated.

你觉得呢？

What do you think about that?

这听起来有点老套，但我就是没听清最后两句话。

This is stereotypical thing, but I just kinda missed the last two sentences.

非常抱歉。

I'm so sorry.

你是说我说的最后两句你没跟上？

You lost me two sentences in?

就是，你刚才……

Like, you just

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我刚才说的是，你提到了三种诊断。

So what I was saying is that you've mentioned three diagnoses.

听起来你还没有正式确诊，但你提到了三种可能的诊断。

It sounds like you haven't been formally diagnosed, but you've mentioned three potential diagnoses.

我注意到你正在努力把自己的生活整理好。

And one of the things that I'm noticing that you're trying to put your life together.

对吧？

Right?

如果有多动症、抑郁症或创伤后应激障碍没有得到治疗，那真的会让生活很难整理好。

One of the things that can really make it hard to put your life together is if there's an untreated ADHD or depression or PTSD.

所以我想问一下，你对临床评估和治疗有什么看法？

So this is where I'd ask, like, are you I mean, what do you think about clinical evaluation, getting into treatment, etcetera?

其实，我还有厌食症，而且我经历过非常糟糕的事情。我来自东欧某个地方，那里的心理健康医疗系统非常糟糕。

I mean, well, I also struggle with anorexia, and I I had the most terrible experience so so basically I'm from somewhere in Eastern Europe and the mental health care system here is horrible.

所以，我尝试过寻求帮助，比如为了厌食症这些不相关的事情。

So like, I tried to get help for like unrelated things like I said, anorexia.

结果非常糟糕。

It went horribly wrong.

我不想再经历这些了，因为这里的心理健康专业人士往往让你变得更糟。

And I was not really, like, try to put myself through this because mental health professionals here tend to leave you worse off than you went in.

而且我觉得，我可以靠自己慢慢稳定下来。

And it's like, I trust myself to like kind of stabilize.

稳定，不是说百分之百把自己治好，因为那可能根本做不到。

Stabilize, like not fix myself 100% because maybe that's not even possible.

但至少能稳住，不用非得把自己所有问题都倒给别人，结果反而被对待得更糟，精神上更不稳定。

But like just stabilize without having to essentially like just bury your whole like assortment of problems to somebody only to be treated in a way that leaves you worse off and like more mentally stabilized.

我来这儿不是为了要诊断的。

Like, I'm not here to see diagnosis.

我就是想听点建议，我知道这不能替代专业治疗。

I'm just here, like, for a couple of tips, I understand that this is not a substitute for

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

不是。

No.

所以，所以，我，我，那，那，那，我，我，所以，谢谢你分享你在心理健康治疗方面的经历。

So so I I I that that that's I I so thank you for sharing what your experience with mental health treatment is.

你能帮我理解一下吗？

Can you just help me understand?

比如，你介意我问你一两个关于你治疗经历的问题吗？

Like, do you mind if I ask you one or two questions about your treatment experience?

好的。

Yeah.

请讲。

Go ahead.

好。

K.

所以，你知道，我听说过世界其他地方有不好的心理健康专业人士。

So, like, you know, I've heard of poor mental health professionals in other parts of the world.

我是说，美国这边也有不少这样的。

I mean, we have some here in The United States as well.

但我很好奇，他们到底做了什么，让你情况变得更糟，比一开始还差？

But I'm curious, like, what did they do that let led you worse off left you worse off than when you started?

基本上，有一个心理学家，如果我能这么叫的话，全程都在冷笑，非常不尊重人。

So, basically, the like, one psychologist, if I can even call her that, was, sneering and, like, just really disrespectful the whole time.

然后她对我说，原话是：'别以为自己很坚强，如果你真的坚强，就不会需要别人。'

And then she told me, like, quote unquote, don't even dare think you're strong because if you really were strong, you would not need other people.

我当时就想，我什么时候说过这个了？

And I was like, wait, when did I even say?

其他的就是在精神病院，就是那种公立的精神病院，他们就说，把这些药吃了，别去研究，别去查任何关于它们的信息。

And the other ones were just at the psych ward, like the state funded psych ward, like, just take these pills, don't research them, don't read anything about them.

他们还喜欢编造问题，然后无缘无故冲你大喊大叫。

They were also prone to like, like, making up problems and just yelling at you for no reason.

天哪。

Oh my god.

倒不是没耐心。

Was not impatient.

但确实，那真的很糟糕。

But yeah, that was really messed up.

然后还有一个医生基本上什么都没做。

And then one of them didn't really do anything.

他们就说，哦，你厌食症控制得不错，那你就是双相情感障碍，吃这些药吧，结果这些药让我想自杀。

Just just I, and they decided that, oh, yeah, you're controlling your anorexia good enough, so you're bipolar, take these pills, and these pills made me suicidal.

我以前从来没有过自杀念头，也没自残过。

I have not been suicidal or self harmed.

如果我说这些让谁感到不适，我很抱歉。

I'm sorry if I'm triggering anybody with all this talk.

但自从我停了那些药，当然不是一下子停的，因为那样会更糟。

But ever since I quit these meds, of course, like, not cold turkey because that would have been even worse.

但我停了之后感觉好多了，我就想，好吧，我得振作起来，靠朋友的支持克服我的饮食失调，主要还是靠我自己研究，我是个爱钻研的人。

But I quit them and I felt better and I just was like, okay, I need to pull myself together and get over my eating disorder with, like, the support of friends, like, mostly on my own, research and I'm somebody who researches a lot.

所以我觉得我能坐在这里跟你说话，甚至还能活着，唯一的原因就是，你知道，我算是比较会想办法，而且有点聪明吧。

So I think the only reason why I'm even here and talking to you and, like, even alive is because I'm, you know, I guess resourceful and, like, sort of intelligent.

所以因为，我们是不是

So Because do we

我得依靠别人。

I have to rely on others.

唉。

Ugh.

所以，让我，让我分享一下，我能跟你分享一下我听到的，以及我对你情况的理解吗？

So he let let me let me share can I share with you, like, what I'm kinda hearing from you and and how I understand your situation?

好的。

Okay.

所以我觉得，听起来你同时有很多事情在发生。

So I think so it sounds like you've got a lot of stuff going on at the same time.

而且，我不知道怎么说，但听起来你就是 overwhelmed 了。

And, like I I don't know how to say this, but it it just sounds like you're just overwhelmed.

我觉得你已经跟我们分享了你的内心世界和日常生活，那就像是一个循环：拼命挖掘能量，取得一点点进展，把其他一切都推开，然后第二天又回到原点。

Like like, I think you've shared with us what it's like to be in your head and, like, living a day in your life, which is like a cycle of desperate digging down for energy, making some small amount of progress, pushing everything else away, and then being back to square one tomorrow.

然后你一遍又一遍地经历这个循环。

And then you go through that same cycle over and over again.

每次经历这个循环，你都会更疲惫一点，更疲惫一点。

And every time you go through that cycle, you get a little bit more burnt out, a little bit more burnt out.

找能量越来越难，越来越难，越来越难，但除此之外还有什么选择呢？

It's harder to find energy, harder to find energy, harder to find energy, but then what's the alternative?

你总得做点什么。

You gotta do something.

所以在这样的情况下，我觉得稳定比进步更重要。

And so in these kinds of situations, like, I I think that stabilization is more important than progress.

你觉得呢？

What do you think?

那种羞耻感，比如每年我生日或者什么重要的日子，你就会想，哦，对，是的。

The shame, like, every year on my birthday or, like, whatever significant date, you're, like, oh, like, yeah.

这个也没做到，那个也没做到。

Still haven't achieved this and that.

我完全理解，但说实话，我真的不知道，我们到底该怎么开始？

It's, like, I completely understand, but, like, I don't really know, like, how, like, how do we even, like, how do we even start?

比如说，有一件事我

Like, one thing I

通过停下来，让开始变得困难了。

made, like, difficult start by stopping.

对。

Yeah.

哦。

Oh.

嗯哼。

Uh-huh.

好的。

Cool.

对吧？

Right?

因为事情是这样的。

Because here's the thing.

每过一年，如果你还没实现目标，你就会感到羞愧。

Every year that goes by, as you haven't achieved your goals, you feel ashamed.

对吧？

Right?

这种羞愧感对你的精力有什么影响？

What does the shame do to your energy?

它对你的思维过程有什么影响？

What does it do by your to your thought process?

这是另一件消耗你精力的事情。

It's another thing that eats away at your energy.

所以，你越感到羞愧，就越需要追赶。

And so as you feel more ashamed of yourself, you have to catch up more.

所以你设定了一个更远大的目标。

So you set a more ambitious goal.

当你没达成那个目标时，你更讨厌自己，然后这个循环就一遍又一遍地继续下去。

As you fail in that goal, you feel worse about yourself, and the cycle continues over and over and over again.

这就是我们从你这里听到的，你被困在这个循环里了。

And that's what we're hearing from you, is that you're stuck in this cycle.

如果我们被困在某个循环里，最简单的脱身办法就是停止我们一直在做的事情。

And if we're stuck in a particular cycle, the simplest way to get out of it is to stop doing what we've been doing.

这说起来容易做起来难。

Now that's easier said than done.

就像……

It was like

但我在听你说话的时候，我的反应是慢下来。

But what I'm what I'm getting what I'm getting just as I listen to you, my reaction is slow down.

深呼吸。

Breathe.

你不必今天就把所有事情都解决。

You don't have to fix everything today.

你觉得这样听起来怎么样？

How does that sound to you?

所以，就像，我做过一些好事，比如，我觉得最奇怪的是，我有一个像比喻性的工具箱，里面有能用的东西，但当我试着回到它们时，实际的事情，比如设定小目标，为了锻炼而锻炼，因为我去年告诉自己，我坚持锻炼了大约六七个月，是的，为了纪律而锻炼，为了心理健康的好处而锻炼，而不是为了看起来怎样，因为你有过饮食失调的糟糕历史。

So there's like good things that that I have like done before, like I I like the weirdest thing is that I have like this proverbial metaphorical toolbox that there are things in there that work but when I try to come back to them, actual things like setting smaller goals, exercising for the sake of exercising because I told myself last year and I managed to exercise for like six, seven months consistently, yeah, work out for like the discipline, work out for the mental health benefits, not for looking a certain way because you have a freaking history of freaking eating disorders.

它起作用了。

It worked.

但现在，就像我打开我的工具箱，我看着那些对我有用的东西，同样的工具。

But now like I open my toolbox and I look at the same things that work for me, the same tools.

而且，就像我说的，我就是什么都感觉不到。

And I, like I said, I just don't feel anything.

所以我想我可能得，就像，强迫自己，重新开始那些好的事情，然后就像，设定那些小小的目标。

So I think I will kind of, like, just have to, like, force myself to, like, restart the the good things and just like, set set those, like, tiny little goals.

朱莉娅，什么

Julia, what

也许可以试着找找

Maybe try to find

你听到我说了什么？

What are you hearing me say?

什么？

Sorry?

你听到我说了什么？

What are you hearing me say?

首先，别再自责了。

Like, first of all, stop shaming yourself.

好的。

Okay.

还有呢？

What else?

别再过度补偿了，少做点，而不是做更多。

And stop trying to overcompensate and, like, do less instead of more.

好的。

Okay.

你同意吗？

Are you down.

这部分。

That part.

对。

Yeah.

你能对自己有耐心吗？

Are you able to be patient with yourself?

哦，不行。

Oh, nope.

还不行。

Not yet.

为什么还不行？

Why not yet.

你对自己有耐心吗？

Are you patient with yourself?

还没有。

Not yet.

那挺有意思的。

That's funny.

对吧？

Right?

我

I

意思是，因为你……那你为什么很难对自己有耐心呢？

mean because you're So what makes it hard for you to be patient with yourself?

我是说，我觉得，说实话，我尽量不让聊天变得更敌对，因为

I mean, I'm like, to be honest, I'm trying to not make chat more hostile towards me because

你在看聊天记录吗？

Are you reading chat?

我肯定不会现在看聊天。

I would definitely not be reading chat right now.

我绝对会无视聊天里说的。

I would absolutely ignore what chat says.

想法。

Idea.

对。

Yeah.

我有点讨好型人格，首先。

I'm kind of a people pleaser, like, first of all.

所以

So

你觉得对自己耐心难在哪里？

What makes it hard for you to be patient with yourself?

还是成长环境，就是我长大的方式，基本上都是跟皮尔斯他们一起。

Upbringing, again, in the way that, like, I grew up, like, generally around Pierce and stuff.

就像，就像，父母本该是那个，你知道，示范你长大后想怎么对待自己、怎么对待生活的人。

Like, like, your parents are supposed to be the ones that, you know, model the way that, you know, you you wanna treat it like when you grow up in the way you wanna treat yourself.

所以，是的。

So yeah.

好的。

Okay.

够了。

Enough.

那么，朱莉娅，我有两个建议，可能你会觉得有点不太满意。

So, Julia, here's my two recommendations, which I think may be a little bit unsatisfying to you.

如果真是这样，请告诉我，也许我们可以花一分钟聊聊这个。

And if they are, please let me know, and maybe we can talk about that for a minute.

第一个是，我希望你只专注于一件事，那就是对自己有耐心。

The first is I want you to just focus on one thing, which is patience with yourself.

就是耐心。

Just patience.

你不必在下一个生日前变得完美。

You don't have to be perfect by your next birthday.

你不必在下一个生日前把所有事情都解决。

You don't have to have everything solved by your next birthday.

你告诉我的是，你在一个环境中长大，那里很多过着健康生活的人所拥有或学到的东西，你并没有得到，那些东西并不是轻而易举就给你的。

What you're telling me is that you grew up in a situation where a lot of the stuff that people who are living healthy, happy lives are given or taught, you were not given the it wasn't handed to you on a silver platter.

你不得不靠自己摸索一切。

You've had to figure everything out on your own.

这意味着你不能把自己和那些一开始就拥有满满一箱资源、并且被教导了一切的人相比。

And what that means is that you can't compare yourself to someone who was starting with, like, a full tank of gas and being taught everything.

所以你得给自己时间去变得更好。

So you've gotta give yourself time to get better.

而且我确实相信你会做到，因为你告诉过我，虽然循环会重复，但我们也听到，有些时期你的工具箱里有工具，你能连续七个月运用它们，你确实在进步。

And I'm confident actually that you will because you've told me that while the cycle repeats, well, we're also hearing that there are periods of time where there are tools in your toolkit which you've been able to apply for seven months at a time, that you do make progress.

我认为关键的是，你越感到不知所措，你越努力想摆脱现状，你就会越不耐烦，这实际上会让整个循环变得更糟。

And I think the key thing is that the more you get overwhelmed, the more you try to get out of your situation, the more impatient you become, that actually worsens the whole cycle.