战胜自我

这里是《隐藏的大脑》。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。1999年，一部新电影仅在美国25家影院首映，片名叫做《成为约翰·马尔科维奇》。其剧情设定荒诞离奇。

This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. In the 1999, a new film debuted in just 25 theaters across The United States. Its name was Being John Malkovich. The premise was outlandish.

一位名叫克雷格的落魄木偶师，在他工作的办公室发现了一扇隐蔽的小门。当他爬进去后，穿过一个奇异通道，最终进入了演员约翰·马尔科维奇的意识中。约十五分钟的时间里，他得以占据这位演员的身体，之后被吐在新泽西收费公路旁。事情从此越发荒诞。克雷格和一位同事开始向人们收费使用这个通道。

A down on his luck puppeteer named Craig finds a small hidden door at the office where he works. When he crawls inside, he goes through a strange portal and ends up inside the mind of the actor John Malkovich. For fifteen minutes or so, he gets to inhabit the actor's body before being spit out on the side of the New Jersey Turnpike. Things only get more wacky from there. Craig and a coworker start charging people to go through the portal.

很快，许多人都有了成为约翰·马尔科维奇的体验。当真正的约翰·马尔科维奇不可避免地得知此事后，他决心亲自穿过这个通道。当他这么做时，进入了一个所有人长着他的脸、且只能说出一个词的世界。这部电影发人深省，长期是我最喜爱的作品之一。这可能因为它隐喻了我们节目探讨的一个核心理念。

And soon, plenty of people have had the experience of being John Malkovich. When John Malkovich, the real John Malkovich, inevitably learns about this, he is determined to go through the portal himself. When he does so, he enters a world where everyone has his face and can only say one word. The movie is thought provoking and has long been one of my favorites. That might be because it is a metaphor for a central idea that we explore on this show.

我们总以为自己是心智的主宰。我们决定自己要思考什么、做什么。我们决定晚餐煮什么、去哪里度假、与谁结婚。但事实证明，有大量无意识的心理过程主导着我们的思维和行为方式。通常，我们并未察觉这些隐藏的操纵者。

We like to think that we are in charge of our own minds. We decide what we are going to think and what we are going to do. We decide what to cook for dinner, where to go on vacation, and whom to marry. But it turns out that there are a vast number of unconscious mental processes that direct much of how we think and act. Often, we are unaware of these hidden puppeteers.

它们让我们说出和做出并非自己主动选择的事。遗憾的是，我们无法把这些操纵者吐到新泽西收费公路边。'这是我的脑袋，施瓦茨。这是我的脑袋。'本周《隐藏的大脑》探讨：为何我们的心智常与自身利益作对，以及如何重新掌控那些牵动我们心弦的幕后操纵者。

They make us say and do things that we haven't consciously chosen ourselves. Sadly, there's no way to spit these puppeteers out on the side of the New Jersey Turnpike. It's my head, Schwartz. It's my head. This week on Hidden Brain, why our minds often conspire against our best interests, and how we can regain some control over the puppet masters pulling at our strings.

有志者事竟成。我们大多被教导相信：只要下定决心就能达成目标。然而当我们试图减肥、多运动或省钱时，常会发生些古怪又令人气馁的事。不知怎的，我们最终吃光了冰箱里的整盒冰淇淋，或错过了健身课程，或又一次超支。这并非我们的初衷，但似乎我们并非真正的主宰者。

Where there's a will, there's a way. Most of us have been raised to believe that if we want to get something done, we need only to set our minds to it. And yet something odd and discouraging often happens when we set out to lose weight or exercise more or save money. Somehow, we end up polishing off that pint of ice cream in the freezer or skipping our session at the gym, or once again spending more than our budget allows. It's not what we set out to do, but it seems as if we are not the ones in charge.

艾米丽·福尔克是宾夕法尼亚大学的心理学家兼神经科学家。她研究我们如何做出选择，以及如何在生活中发起改变。艾米丽·福尔克，欢迎来到《隐藏的大脑》。

Emily Falk is a psychologist and neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania. She studies how we make choices and how we can initiate change in our lives. Emily Falk, welcome to Hidden Brain.

非常感谢邀请我。

Thank you so much for having me.

艾米丽，我了解到你最近在毕业典礼自助餐有许多甜点时，曾对自己许下关于饮食的承诺。你当时对自己做了什么承诺？

Emily, I understand that you recently made a promise to yourself about what you would eat at a graduation ceremony that featured many desserts at the buffet. What was the promise you made to yourself?

当时我处于非常兴奋的状态，因为有很多看起来美味的甜点。我很好奇，想每种都尝尝。但我知道如果吃太多不同甜点，之后肯定会不舒服。所以我决定每样拿一个试吃，然后完整吃完最喜欢的那种。我坐下后确实每种都尝了，结果它们都非常好吃。

Well, I was in the very exciting situation that there were many desserts that looked delicious. And I was very curious, so I wanted to try all of them. But I knew, of course, that if I ate many different desserts, I would not feel amazing afterwards. So I decided that I was gonna get one of each of them, try each one, and then eat the full thing from the one I liked the best. I went and I sat down, and I did try each of them, and it turned out that they were delicious.

我也参加了一个大约一小时的仪式，那些甜点就摆在我面前。当时情况很顺利，因为我面前有很多甜点，时间也很充裕。所以我吃了它们，一开始还挺有趣的，直到后来感觉就不那么好了。

I was also in a ceremony that was about an hour long, and they were just there in front of me. And so in the moment, it went well in the sense that I had many desserts in front of me and a lot of time. So I ate them, and that was really fun for a little while until it wasn't.

艾米丽回到家后，向她的伴侣布雷特发誓，今天剩下的时间只吃健康食物。

When Emily got home, she swore to her partner, Brett, that she was only going to eat healthy foods the rest of the day.

哦，天哪。我躺在沙发上说，我糖分摄入太多了，今天再也不吃糖了。

Oh, man. Well, I went and I laid down on the couch, and I said, I am so sugared up. I am not gonna eat any more sugar today.

然后发生了什么？

And what happened?

我有点不好意思告诉你发生了什么。那天晚上，我们和我奶奶贝芙一起出去吃饭，她住的楼里有家叫小皮特的餐厅。我们去那里吃了一顿我孩子们认为可能是最理想的一餐，包括煎烤奶酪三明治、华夫饼之类的餐厅食物。甜点时间，孩子们说要喝奶昔。我儿子埃米特问服务员奶昔有多大杯。

I'm a little embarrassed to tell you what happened. What happened was, that evening, we went out to dinner with my grandma Bev, And there's a diner in her building called Little Pete's. And we went there and had what my kids considered to be probably the ideal meal, including things like, you know, a griddled grilled cheese and waffles and things that you get at a diner. And at dessert time, the kids said they wanted a milkshake. And my kid, Emmett, asked the waiter, how big is the milkshake?

服务员说挺大的。于是我说，你们为什么不分着喝呢？他们同意了。服务员端来两大杯满满的奶昔，我以为每杯只有一半，但不对，他还拿了一个像汽水机那种大金属杯给我。

And the waiter said, it's pretty big. And so I said, why don't you guys split the milkshake? So they agreed to that deal. And the waiter brought out two fairly sizable glasses full of milkshake, which I assumed was half in each glass. But no, he also had one of those large metal containers like you get at a soda fountain, and he handed it to me.

那里面装的奶昔和杯子里一样多。所以他给了我这么一大杯奶昔。基本上，我能怎么办呢？对吧？我不想让孩子们再摄入更多糖分了。

And that contained just as much milkshake. So he gave me this enormous milkshake. And basically, what was I gonna do? Right? Like, didn't wanna sugar my kids up anymore.

奶昔太好喝了。尽管在来吃饭前我刚对布雷特和孩子们说过，今天再也不吃糖了，我要排毒，吃绿色蔬菜，之后会感觉很好。但我还是把剩下的整杯奶昔都喝光了。

Milkshakes are delicious. So despite the fact that directly before coming to this dinner, I had just said to Brett and my kids, I am not gonna eat any more sugar today. I am just gonna detox and eat all the green vegetables and feel amazing later. I proceeded to polish off the entire rest of that milkshake.

艾米丽，这让我想起《老友记》里那个洞察人性的场景。钱德勒和瑞秋发现自己在吃本该送给邻居的芝士蛋糕。当第二个蛋糕送来时，他们发誓不吃并把它放在真正主人的门外。但很快他们就发现蛋糕还没被取走。你明白我在说什么吗？

I'm reminded Emily of that perceptive scene from the sitcom Friends. Chandler and Rachel find themselves eating a cheesecake that was supposed to be delivered to a neighbor. When a second cheesecake arrives, they vow not to eat it and place the dessert outside the door of the rightful owner. But soon enough, they find the cheesecake has not yet been picked up. Do you see what I see?

它还在那儿。

It's still there.

布雷弗曼太太肯定出门了。

Mrs. Braverman must be out.

她可能出城了。说不定要离开好几个月。

She could be out of town. Maybe she'll be gone for months.

到那时芝士蛋糕可能都变质了。我们可不想让她回来面对坏掉的蛋糕。

By then, the cheesecake may have gone bad. We don't want her to come back to bad cheesecake.

不行。那会要了她的命。我们当然不希望那样。所以——我们这是在保护她。

No. That could kill her. Well, we wouldn't want that. No. So we're protecting her.

噢，我们该拿走它？对。但得动作快点。为什么？因为我好像听见她在屋里走动的声音了。

Oh, we should take it? Yeah. But we should move quick. Why? Because I think I just heard her moving around in there.

快走。快走。快走。

Go. Go. Go.

艾米丽，我理解你喝那杯奶昔的部分动机是想保护孩子免受过量糖分的危害。这很像钱德勒和瑞秋在那个场景里的做法。

So I understand that part of your motivation in having that milkshake, Emily, was you wanted to shield your children from the dangers of too much sugar. That sounds a lot like what Chandler and Rachel were doing in the scene.

没错。虽然我确实在餐桌上这么说过。不过布雷特提醒了我之前要善待身体、不用大量糖分毒害自己的决心。当时我手里拿着奶昔，就说'但奶昔看起来太好喝了'——这理由还挺充分。

Yeah. I mean, that's certainly something that I said verbally at the table. I mean, Brett did remind me of the resolution that I'd made earlier to be kind to my body and not totally poison myself with large amounts of sugar. And I had a milkshake in my hand, and I said, well, I have a milkshake, and it looks delicious. So that was a pretty good argument.

艾米丽，我想知道你怎么看待这个现象，因为我觉得很多人都经历过类似困境：我们想做某件事，渴望做某件事，计划做某件事，但最后总是事与愿违。

I'm wondering, Emily, what you make of this because I feel many people go through what you go through, which is that we want to do something, we aspire to do something, we plan to do something, and then somehow we don't.

正是如此。这种现象会出现在生活的方方面面。可能是我们希望能多投入些精力的工作项目，或是学生时代的课业（如果你还在上学的话）。那些需要长期才能见效的决定尤其如此——比如为了长远健康幸福而计划做的事。

Exactly. And this happens in all different parts of our lives. It happens with work projects that maybe we wish we had gotten to invest in a little bit more or school projects if we're still in school. It happens with decisions where there's some kind of payoff that's far off in the future. Maybe we wanna do something because we know that it'll make us healthier, happier later.

这种情况常发生在我们关心的人身上——当对方有空且我们仍有机会时，要主动安排时间陪伴他们。这只是几个小例子。我们经常做这类选择，事后又困惑当初为何如此决定。

It happens with the people that we care about and making time to spend time with them when they're available and when we still can. So that's just a small set of examples. There are so many times where we make these kinds of choices, and then later we wonder why we made them.

你从学生、伴侣或孩子那里听过类似情况吗？

Have you heard this from your students, from your partner, from your children?

听过。我认识的人都有这种经历。比如我奶奶贝芙，每次见面她都懊恼没时间读书。我问她为什么不读呢？

Yeah. I've heard this. Everybody that I know experiences this. One example that comes to mind is my grandma Bev, every time I see her, regrets that she hasn't been reading books. And I ask her, you know, why haven't you been reading books?

她明明热爱阅读。她说总有一堆琐事要处理，细问之下无非是打扫公寓、跑腿办事这些耗时的事。我就建议她专门划出阅读时间，她却总说'明天再说'。

She loves reading books. And she says, well, there's just so many things that I need to do. And I ask her about what those things are, and it's usually things that have to do with basic, you know, cleaning up her apartment or doing errands, things that that take some time. And I say, well, why don't you just carve out some time and read some books? And she's like, I'll do it tomorrow.

再比如我的孩子们，他们对各种活动都充满兴趣。但周末允许玩电子设备时，他们往往沉迷《我的世界》游戏，事后又为没完成周末计划而沮丧。工作中的团队也常这样——

Or, you know, my kids are extremely, interested in a a wide range of things that they would like to be doing. And then sometimes on the weekend when they're allowed to have screen time, they end up playing a ton of Minecraft. And then later, they feel frustrated that they didn't do all those other things that they had in their plan for the weekend. Those are two small examples that come to mind. I mean, this also happens all the time with my team at work.

比如研究项目开会时大家雄心勃勃，一周后再碰面，计划清单上的事项可能只完成零星几项。并非有人懈怠或心存恶意，而是事情总比预估耗时，突发状况又层出不穷。有时甚至会有20件重要事项根本没出现在原始清单上。

Like, when people are doing research, and we meet and we discuss all of the ambitions that we have for the things that we're gonna do. And then we meet with each other a week later, and only a very small number of the things that were actually on the list maybe have been accomplished. And it's not that anybody has been slacking off or anybody had bad intentions, but just that everything always takes longer than you think, and then other things come up. And sometimes there's 20 things that didn't make it onto that original to do list, but that were really important in the moment.

这种'计划破产'现象太普遍，已成影视剧经典桥段。我想播放《公园与游憩》的片段——角色罗恩·斯旺森与某女性关系恶劣却反复复合。某次痛苦分手后，他给未来的自己录了段警告。

So this phenomenon of failing to follow through is so common that it's become a trope in many films and TV shows. I want to play you a clip from the television series Parks and Recreation. The character Ron Swanson has had a really bad relationship with this woman but keeps getting back with her. After one of their traumatic breakups, he records a message to his future self.

听着罗恩，我是罗恩。如果你看到这个，说明你又和魔鬼共舞了。此刻你肯定在想'塔米变了，我们会幸福'——

Hello, Ron. It's Ron. If you're watching this, it means that once again, you have danced with the devil. Right now, you're probably thinking, Tammy's changed. We'll be happy together.

但这想法只因她是寄生怪物，从你下体钻入盘踞大脑。现在你有两个选择：一、甩掉塔米；二、做脑叶切除加阉割手术。慎重选择。

But you're only thinking that because she's a monstrous parasite who entered through your privates and lodged herself in your brain. So you have two choices. One, get rid of Tammy. Or two, lobotomy and castration. Choose wisely.

艾米丽，你从罗恩这段自我警告中听出了什么？

So Emily, what do you hear when you hear that warning that Ron is giving to himself?

是的。我的意思是，我听到的是一个过去曾尝试过做某事的人。对吧？他设定了一个目标，然后出现了他未曾预料到的其他事情。于是他又和Tammy复合了。

Yeah. I mean, what I hear is somebody who has tried to do something in the past. Right? He set a goal and then, other things that he hadn't accounted for come up. And so he gets back together with Tammy.

显然，他已经多次这样做了，因为他录了视频并试图在未来防止这种情况发生。对吧？所以我们总是这样做。我们试图与自己对话，或制定决心，或写下关于我们未来的自己应该如何行动的想法。

And clearly, he's done this multiple times because he's made a video and tried to protect himself against it in the future. Right? So we do this all the time. We try to talk to ourselves or make resolutions or write down, ideas about how our future selves should behave.

我在想，某种程度上这是否就像尤利西斯把自己绑在船桅上的故事。我是说，这个问题实际上可以追溯到神话，到古代。我们常常面临的挑战是克服那个似乎住在我们自己脑海中的劫持者。

I'm wondering in some ways if this is like the story of, you know, Ulysses tying himself to the mast of his own ship. I mean, is a problem that really goes back to mythology, to ancient times. I mean, the challenge that we often have in overcoming what seems to be, you know, almost a hijacker who lives inside our own heads.

是的。我是说，这是一个可以追溯到几个世纪、几千年的想法，也是一个在各种现代媒体中都有体现的想法。就像你之前播放的片段，它很有趣，因为我们能感同身受。对吧？它有趣是因为它太常见了，以至于我们没有人会想，为什么钱德勒和瑞秋会对吃更多的芝士蛋糕感兴趣？

Yeah. I mean, it's it's an idea that goes back for centuries, millennia, and it's also an idea that's represented in all kinds of modern media. And like the clips you played earlier, it's funny because we can relate to it. Right? It's funny because it's so common that none of us is thinking, why are Chandler and Rachel interested in eating more of the cheesecake?

或者，你知道，Ron应该能够控制自己，因为我们很多人都曾处于那种情况。

Or, you know, well, Ron should just be able to stop himself because so many of us have been in that kind of situation.

很多时候，我们真心想要改变我们的行为，这些改变我们知道会让我们变得更好。但几乎同样频繁的是，我们最终没有做出这些改变，让自己感到沮丧和困惑。稍后回来，我们将探讨那个神秘但强大的存在，它在我们脑海中运作，反对我们有意识改善生活的目标。您正在收听的是《隐藏的大脑》。我是Shankar Vedanta。

So often, we sincerely want to make changes in our behavior, changes that we know would leave us better off. And almost as often, we end up not making those changes to our own frustration and bafflement. When we come back, the mysterious but powerful presence inside our heads that works against our conscious goals to improve our lives. You're listening to Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta.

这里是《隐藏的大脑》。我是Shankar Vedanta。Emily Falk是宾夕法尼亚大学的心理学家和神经科学家。她研究为什么我们的决心常常失败，以及我们能做些什么。Emily，大多数人想象，如果我们想做出一个选择或启动一个改变，我们可以简单地决定去做，然后就会坚持下去。

This is Hidden Brain. I am Shankar Vedanta. Emily Falk is a psychologist and neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania. She studies why our resolutions often fail and what we can do about it. Emily, most of us imagine that if there's a choice we want to make or a change we want to initiate, we can simply decide to do it and then we will carry through.

你对大脑的研究表明，这个过程还有更多内容。特别是，一个被称为价值系统的网络在我们面临决策时会参与其中。这个价值系统是什么？

Your study of the brain suggests that there's more to this process. In particular, a network known as the value system gets involved whenever we face a decision. What is this value system?

价值系统是一组处理我们选择的大脑区域。我们在喝奶昔还是不喝奶昔之间，或者是在出去约会还是呆在家里处理邮件之间做出的有意识选择。价值系统通过神经科学家所称的价值计算来处理这些选择。

The value system is a constellation of brain regions that handle our choices. The choices that we're making consciously between, you know, drinking a milkshake or not drinking a milkshake, between, you know, whether we're going to go out on a date with somebody or stay home and deal with our emails. And the value system calculates these choices in what neuroscientists call a value calculation.

所以从某种意义上说，它是在进行一种成本效益分析？

So in some ways, it's doing a sort of cost benefit analysis?

是的。本质上，对于我们每个选择，它都在识别我们正在不同选项之间抉择的内容。它根据当前情境、过往经历和未来目标，为每个选项赋予主观价值。然后基于这种主观价值——即预期从每个选择中获得的主观回报——它会选择当下认为最适合我的那个。之后，这个系统会连接至其他大脑系统，执行与该选择相关的行动。

Yeah. Basically, for each of our choices, it's identifying what are the different things that we're choosing between. It's assigning a subjective value to each of those different choices that depends on our current context, our past experiences, our future goals. And then based on that subjective value, that subjective reward that it's anticipating from each of the choices, it chooses the one that it thinks is gonna be the best for me right here, right now. And then it is connected to other brain systems that take action that's relevant to that choice.

所以你刚才提出了一个非常重要的观点：价值体系真正关注的是当下。比如当艾米丽说，我不想吃太多甜点或糖分，因为长期来看对我不好。但当艾米丽面对桌上摆着的三份诱人甜点时，价值系统必须做出判断，并优先考虑短期或长期利益。

So you raised something really important here just now, is that the value system is really focused on the here and now. So when Emily says, I don't want to eat too much dessert or too much sugar because that's not gonna be good for me in the long run. But then Emily is confronting three delicious desserts that are sitting in front of her on the table. The value system has to make a judgment, and it has to prioritize either the short term or the long term.

没错。当我决定是否要吃眼前的美味甜点时，关于它会有多美味的短期回报更为突出。在价值计算中，这比如果我年复一年这样做会带来的长期后果——甚至明天或今晚晚些时候的感受——分量更重。

Exactly. So when I'm trying to decide whether I'm gonna eat the delicious dessert that's sitting in front of me, the short term reward of how delicious it's gonna taste is more salient. That weighs more heavily in that value calculation than the long term consequence if I do that over and over again over the course of years or even how I'm gonna feel tomorrow or later this evening.

你可以看到这种情况以各种不同方式运作。如果我在购买昂贵小玩意和为退休储蓄之间做选择，昂贵小玩意会给我即时的快乐和愉悦，而为退休储蓄则是非常遥远的利益。

And you can see how this works in all kinds of different ways. If I'm making a choice between buying some expensive gizmo or saving for my retirement, the expensive gizmo gives me a joy and a pleasure in the here and now, and saving for retirement is a very far off benefit.

对。不仅遥远，而且不那么生动。对吧？我可以完全想象眼前这个玩具会有多好玩，而谁知道我退休时会有哪些玩具可用呢。

Right. Not only is it far off, but it's less vivid. Right? I can totally imagine how much fun it's gonna be to play with that toy right here that's in front of me, whereas who knows what kind of toys are gonna be available during my retirement.

因此，我们经常考虑的权衡涉及你可能称之为苹果和橙子的选择。它们是常常需要评估的非常不同的选项。在现实世界中，我们可能会成立委员会来比较这些截然不同的选择。但不知何故，我们的大脑简化了这些选择的复杂性，将混乱的现实决策转化为简单的选择。你说将这种价值计算视为一场隐藏的'你更愿意'游戏是很有用的。

So very often the trade offs we consider involve what you might call apples and oranges. They're very different choices that we often have to evaluate. And, you know, in the real world, we might establish committees to compare these very different choices. But somehow our brains reduce the complexity of these choices and turn messy real world decisions into simple choices. You say it's useful to think of this value calculation as a hidden game of would you rather.

艾米丽，你这么说是什么意思？

What do you mean by that, Emily?

嗯，你可能熟悉聚会游戏'你更愿意'？我可能会问你各种通常不像你提出的选项那么简单的问题，比如你更愿意吃苹果还是橙子？或者你更愿意吃蓝莓挞还是柠檬芝士蛋糕？当然，价值系统可以处理这类'你更愿意'的选择。但我也认为它能处理我们在聚会上通常会给出的更抽象、本质上无法直接比较的选择，这相当不可思议。

Well, you're probably familiar with the party game, would you rather? Where I might ask you different kinds of things that are usually not as simple as the option that you brought up, like would you rather eat an apple or an orange? Or would you rather eat a blueberry tart or a lemon cheesecake? Though, of course, the value system can handle those kinds of would you rather choices. But I also think it's pretty incredible that it can handle the more abstract kind of choices that we usually give it at a party that are not inherently comparable.

比如，你更愿意拥有猫的舌头，还是更愿意双手变成旱冰鞋？对吧？这些是完全不同的东西。你无法直接比较它们的优缺点，但你可能会对你会选择哪个有某种直觉。

Like, would you rather have a cat's tongue or would you rather have roller skates for hands? Right? Like, those are totally different things. And it's not like you can directly compare what the advantages and disadvantages would be, but you might have some intuition about which one you would choose.

你知道，当我看到其中一些问题，比如你更愿意能说每种语言，还是拥有地球上最美的歌声？同样，这些选择实际上很难比较和对比。但同样，凭直觉思考，我几乎立刻在心里有了答案，知道我会选择什么。

You know, when I see some of these questions, would you rather be able to speak every language or have the most beautiful singing voice on earth? Again, very difficult to actually compare and contrast these choices. But again, intuitively, I think about it, I almost instantly have an answer in my mind about what I would choose.

没错。同理，我们也可以用金钱来衡量。比如我可以问你，你是想要5美元，还是想和小狗依偎？你可以选择是否愿意花5美元换取和小狗依偎的机会，根据你对小狗的喜爱程度以及你当前的经济状况，你很可能得出答案。

Exactly. Likewise, we can do this with money. Like, I could say to you, would you rather have $5 or would you rather snuggle with a puppy? And you could choose whether you'd be willing to pay $5 to snuggle with a puppy or not, and you can probably come up with an answer depending on how you feel about puppies and, you know, how flush you're feeling.

当价值系统进行这些快速直觉计算时，往往会优先考虑当下。当然，我们大多数决心都是为了优先考虑长期目标，而非短期满足。那么当价值系统怂恿我们再吃一份甜点时，大多数人会怎么做？我们试图用意志力克服它。我们告诉自己要考虑抵制诱惑带来的长期好处。

When the value system makes these quick intuitive calculations, it tends to prioritize the here and now. Of course, most of our resolutions are about prioritizing long term goals, not short term gratifications. So what do most of us do when the value system nudges us toward that extra serving of dessert? We try to overcome it using willpower. We tell ourselves to think about the long term benefits of not yielding to temptation.

问题在于，与当下可触知的快乐相比，那些长期目标往往显得抽象。

The problem is those long term goals tend to be abstract compared to the tangible pleasures of the here and now.

它们在某种程度上离我们很遥远。我们无法生动地想象它们。当我们思考遥远未来的事情时，也无法那么生动地想象。比如我今天选择吃什么或是否锻炼带来的长期健康益处，会被此刻留下来再看一集节目或享用眼前美食的愉悦感所抵消。同样地，当我们思考其他类型的'应该'时，也会面临这类抽象权衡。

They're, you know, essentially far away from us in some way. We can't imagine them as vividly. And we can't imagine things as vividly when we think about things that are far off in the future. Like for example, a long term health benefit of what I choose to eat today or whether I choose to get exercise is offset by, you know, how nice it would feel to stay and watch another show or eat something delicious that is available to me right now. And likewise, those same kinds of abstract trade offs come into play when we think about other kinds of shoulds.

比如，我应该关心世界上其他地区正在遭受苦难的人们。但当这种关心很抽象，当我们只知道关于死亡人数的统计数据时，可能就不如听到某个具体个体的苦难故事来得深刻。或者更好的是，当我们认识那些生活正受到特定政策或决策影响的人们时。

Like, I should care about what's happening, globally to people who are suffering in other parts of the world. But when that's abstract and we know statistics about people that are dying, that's maybe less salient than we hear specific stories about the suffering of a particular individual. Or even better, when we get to know people whose lives are impacted by particular policies or decisions that are being made.

艾米丽，另一个让我们容易失去行为控制的原因是，我们认为自己是独立自主的行动者。但你说大脑对你称为'社会关联系统'的他人想法和行为异常敏感。这是什么，艾米丽？

Another way, Emily, that we make ourselves vulnerable to losing control of our behavior is that we think of ourselves as independent, autonomous agents. But you say the brain is exquisitely sensitive to what other people think and do by what you call the social relevance system. What is this, Emily?

是的。社会关联系统是一组帮助我们理解他人想法和感受的脑区。科学家们也可能称之为心理理论系统或心智化系统。这个社会关联系统能帮助我们与他人建立联系和协调，同时也影响着我们做出的决定。

Yeah. The social relevance system is a set of brain regions, that help us understand what other people think and feel. And so you might also hear scientists refer to a theory of mind system or a mentalizing system that helps us think about other people's thoughts and feelings. And this social relevance system can help us connect and coordinate with other people. And it also shapes the decisions that we make.

比如，它让我们与他人保持一致。它能帮助我们跟上潮流，但也可能带来有害影响，比如诱使我们转发虚假的社交媒体帖子。

Like, it keeps us aligned with other people. It can help keep us on trends, but it can also do harmful things like, maybe diluting us into resharing a false social media post.

所以你最近有个亲身经历，让你深刻体会到他人观点的影响力有多大。我听说这和演员本尼迪克特·康伯巴奇有关？

So you yourself had an experience recently that gave you a sense of how powerfully influential the views of other people can be. And I understand it involved the actor Benedict Cumberbatch?

没错。在讲这个故事之前，我真的从没怎么想过本尼迪克特·康伯巴奇。我的意思是，如果我看到他，最多觉得'哦，一个男的'。他看起来挺普通的。后来我朋友丽贝卡给了我一本书叫《这不是一本关于本尼迪克特·康伯巴奇的书》，澳大利亚作家塔比瑟·卡文在书中用几百页篇幅讲述本尼迪克特·康伯巴奇有多么出色。

Yeah. So before the story I'm about to tell you, I had really never thought very much about Benedict Cumberbatch. I mean, I think if I saw him and I thought anything, it was like, there's a guy. Like, he's a pretty average looking guy. And then my friend Rebecca gave me a book called This Is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch, in which an Australian author, Tabitha Carvan, spends a few 100 pages talking about how amazing Benedict Cumberbatch is.

她觉得他极具魅力。她完全迷上了本尼迪克特·康伯巴奇。读完这本关于快乐、价值观以及我们如何度过时间的书后——我超爱这本书——它让我思考：我好奇大家对康伯巴奇的狂热究竟为何。于是我对伴侣布雷特说，或许我们该看看《神探夏洛克》。布雷特回答说，哦，我已经全看完了。

She thinks he's incredibly attractive. She just, you know, is completely enamored of Benedict Cumberbatch. And so after reading this book, which is really a book about joy and about what we value and about how we spend our time, I loved the book, it made me think, like, I wonder what all the, you know, excitement about Benedict Cumberbatch is. And I said to my partner, Brett, like, maybe we should watch Sherlock. And Brett was like, oh, I've already watched all of Sherlock.

我超爱《神探夏洛克》。我当时就震惊了：你什么时候看的？不过他说愿意重温，因为显然他也非常喜欢本尼迪克特·康伯巴奇。他还告诉我，他认为夏洛克是个超性感的角色。

I love Sherlock. And I was like, what? Like, when did you watch Sherlock? And but he said he'd watch it again because he apparently also really likes Benedict Cumberbatch. And he told me that he thought Sherlock was a really hot character.

显然我才是那个不合群的人。于是我们看了几集《神探夏洛克》，听着别人对他的评价，我也开始注意到：确实，他挺有魅力的，聪明过人。接着我开始上网看他接受采访的视频。

Apparently, I was the, you know, out of line. So so we watch a couple episodes of Sherlock. And with other people's voices in my head, I'm noticing like, yeah, he's pretty charming. Like, he's pretty smart. And then I started watching videos of him being interviewed online.

当被问到'被评为全球最性感男人感受如何'时，他表现得如此迷人。他会说些类似'这让我咯咯笑'的话，整件事处理得既风趣又讨喜。

And, you know, people asking these questions about like, how does it feel to be named the sexiest man alive? And he's like so charming. Right? He says something like, oh, it makes me giggle. Or, like, you know, he's totally delightful about it.

我和朋友们聊起这事，才发现原来他们都觉得康伯巴奇特别有吸引力。这一切让我重新审视自己对他的看法。你们真该看看他把企鹅(penguin)说错的视频——BBC记者后来问起这事时，他还在'企鹅(pengwing)'和'企鹅(penguin)'之间反复出错。

And my friends, you know, we started talking about this. My friends, it turns out, thought Benedict Cumberbatch was really attractive. And all of this just made me, like, reconsider my entire position on Benedict Cumberbatch. You should watch the video of where he mispronounced penguins, and then a BBC reporter asked him about it. And he says peng wings and penguins.

他就是一直发不准这个音。

Like, he just he keeps mispronouncing it.

峡湾冠企鹅，得名于新西兰南部的这个角落。

Fjordland crested penguins, named after this corner of South New Zealand.

拍摄纪录片时他似乎总说不对这个词。事后被问及时，他坦然承认：'是啊，当时确实卡壳了。'整个回应既可爱又自嘲。

He can't seem to get it right in filming this documentary. And so then afterwards, they ask him about it, and he just totally fesses up. Like, yeah. Was having a hard time. And he's, like, so, like, lovely and self deprecating about the whole thing.

再试试说'企鹅'这个词？可能...可能他们干脆放弃了。看来你也掉进了本尼迪克特·康伯巴奇的魅力漩涡。

Try the word penguin again. May may may maybe maybe maybe they just gave up. So you got sucked into the Benedict Cumberbatch portal.

没错。就像研究中的那些人一样，我未必会认为他是地球上最帅的人。但我的态度确实转变了——从觉得'不过是个普通人，不懂为何如此追捧'，到至少能欣赏他在网络表现出的迷人特质。

Yeah. I mean, like the people in the study, it's not like I would necessarily say that I think that he is the most attractive attractive person on the face of the planet. But I went from thinking like, alright, here's an average guy. I don't really know what the fuss is all about. To appreciating the charming nature of at least how he comes across on the internet.

对吧？我认为这种增加的欣赏几乎完全是由其他人欣赏他的这种社会力量驱动的。

Right? And I think that that increased appreciation was motivated almost exclusively by this kind of social force of other people appreciating him.

我们喜欢认为自己是自己命运的船长，但日常生活的证据讲述了一个不同的故事。船舵旁还有一位共同船长，而这位共同船长并不总是与我们的目标一致。稍后回来时，如何实现我们声称想要的改变？您正在收听《隐藏的大脑》。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。

We like to think that we're captains of our own ships, but the evidence of everyday life tells a different story. There is a co captain at the helm, and this co captain does not always share our goals. When we come back, how to make the changes we say we want? You're listening to Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta.

这里是《隐藏的大脑》。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔。心理学家兼神经科学家艾米丽·福尔克是《我们重视什么：选择与改变的神经科学》一书的作者。她花了很多年研究为什么我们的大脑似乎有自己的想法，以及为什么我们的决心和计划经常被劫持和搁置。如果您在听完今天的对话后对艾米丽有后续问题或想法，并愿意与《隐藏的大脑》听众分享这些想法，请用手机录制一段语音备忘录，并通过电子邮件发送给我们，地址是ideashiddenbrain.org。

This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. Psychologist and neuroscientist Emily Falk is the author of What We Value, The Neuroscience of Choice and Change. She has spent many years studying why our brains seem to have minds of their own and why our resolutions and plans often get hijacked and waylaid. If you have follow-up questions or thoughts for Emily after listening to today's conversation and you're willing to share those thoughts with the Hidden Brain audience, please record a voice memo on your phone and email it to us at ideashiddenbrain dot org.

邮件主题请写“心理障碍”。再次提醒，邮箱地址是ideashiddenbrain.org。艾米丽，你知道了解到价值系统在某种意义上正在为我们做出判断可能会令人沮丧。而这些判断往往与我们声称想要的判断不同。你说通过理解价值系统的运作，我们可以学会与大脑中的网络合作，而不是与之对抗。

Use the subject line mental barriers. That email address again is ideashiddenbrain dot org. Emily, you know it can be dispiriting to learn that the value system is in a sense making our judgments for us. And these judgments are often different from the ones we say that we want. You say that by understanding the operation of the value system, we can learn to work with the network in the brain rather than struggling against it.

你这是什么意思？

What do you mean by this?

是的。我的意思是，当我们思考我们的更大目标、价值观，甚至是我们可能有的小目标时，我们如何构建这些选择可以使我们更容易做出与我们最终想要的相符的选择，如果我们是在以最好的自己运作的话。所以我真的很喜欢斯坦福大学研究人员做的一项研究，他们观察了人们在食堂的决定。他们改变了食物的标签，要么关注食物的长期健康益处，要么关注短期口感。例如，他们可能有蔬菜被标记为“健康选择芜菁”或“香醋釉芜菁”，或“营养青豆”，或“滋滋作响的四川青豆”。

Yeah. What I mean is that when we think about our bigger picture goals and values or even small goals that we might have, that the way that we frame those choices can make it easier to make choices that are congruent with what we would ultimately want if we were, let's say, operating as our best selves. So one example that I really like is a study that researchers at Stanford did where they looked at people's decisions in dining halls. And they changed the labels of the foods to either focus on the long term health benefits of things, or the kind of short term taste. So for example, they might have, vegetables that were labeled as healthy choice turnips or balsamic glazed turnips, or nutritious green beans, or sizzling Szechuan green beans.

菜品本身完全一样。但当它们突出选项的美味时，人们选择的蔬菜比突出长期健康益处时要多得多。所以当我说我们可以与我们的价值系统合作时，我的意思是，就像我们之前讨论的那样，人们倾向于优先考虑我们选择的即时、心理上接近或生动的后果。我们可以关注我们想要做的事情中令人满足、有回报、立即有用的方面。

And the dish itself is exactly the same. But when they foreground the tastiness of the option, people chose a lot more vegetables than when they foreground that sort of longer term health benefit. And so what I mean when I say that we can work with our value system is, like, building on what we talked about before, where people tend to prioritize the immediate or psychologically close or vivid consequences of our choices. We can focus on what is gratifying, what is rewarding, what is immediately useful about the thing that we want to do.

在某种程度上，这与试图对抗我们的价值系统是非常不同的模式。对吧？因为这不同于说我的价值系统想要x，我要用意志力来压制它。它基本上是在说，我们如何才能真正合作？

And in some ways, this is a very different model than trying to fight our value system. Right? Because it's not the same thing as saying my value system wants x. I'm going to exercise willpower to suppress it. It's basically saying, how do we actually work together?

正是如此。我们如何与自己合作，以做出现在感觉良好、以后也感觉良好的选择？所以如果我们考虑一个锻炼的例子，你知道，也许我们尝试做一些我们认为会让我们尽可能健康的事情，而我们选择的事情最终并不是那么有趣或令人愉快，我们必须用大量的意志力来强迫自己去做。这可能不可持续。而当我们做出真正有趣和快乐的选择时，比如也许我真的很喜欢跳舞。

Exactly. How do we how do we collaborate with ourselves in order to make the choices that feel good now and feel good later? So if we think about an exercise example, you know, maybe we try to do something that we think is gonna make us as fit as possible, and we choose something that isn't ultimately that fun or enjoyable, and where we have to exercise a lot of willpower to make ourselves do it. And that's probably not sustainable. Whereas, when we, make choices that are really fun and joyful, like maybe, I really love to dance.

所以对我来说去跳舞并不感觉像是在专门锻炼。它感觉像是我想做的事情，你知道，即使没有身体上的好处，也是为了我的心理健康。或者和我的邻居一起跑步是一个很好的机会，可以赶上她，听听她的一周过得怎么样。所以关注这些事情可以让它立即有回报，而不是仅仅关注一些关于变得更健康的长期目标，而实际上它也有这些好处。

So going dancing for me doesn't feel like, you know, a workout specifically. It feels like something I would want to do, you know, for my for my mental well-being, even absent the physical benefits. Or going for a run with my neighbor is a great chance to catch up with her and hear about how her week is going. So focusing on those kinds of things can make it immediately rewarding as opposed to just focusing on some longer term goal about getting healthier, when in reality, it also has those benefits as well.

我理解你长期以来一直有意愿多去看望祖母。你曾告诉我你们关系很亲密。但你总是无法兑现这个决心，因为你害怕去她家路上会遇到交通拥堵。那么，考虑到我们刚才讨论的——顺应而非对抗价值观体系的想法，你做了什么，艾米丽？

I understand that for a long time you had an intention to visit your grandmother more often. You told me that you are close to her. But you kept failing to keep your resolution because you dreaded the traffic you would encounter on the way to her house. So keeping in mind what we just talked about, the idea of working with the value system rather than against it, what did you do, Emily?

我当时在听一个叫《如何拯救地球》的播客，肯德拉·皮埃尔·刘易斯做了一期关于骑行的非常有趣的节目。这让我想起骑行不必是那种大汗淋漓、紧张兮兮、在车流中穿梭玩命的运动。肯德拉采访的那些骑行爱好者纯粹是在享受乐趣——他们骑着车在外面欢快地摇摇晃晃。这让我想到或许可以骑车而不是开车去她家。

I was listening to a podcast called How to Save a Planet where Kendra Pierre Lewis made this very delightful episode about biking. And it reminded me that biking doesn't have to be this, like, sweaty, stressful thing where you're taking your life in your hands, weaving in and out of traffic. Like, the people that Kendra interviewed for the biking episode were just having fun. Like, they were out there joyfully teetering around on their bikes. And it made me think about the possibility that I could bike to her house instead of driving there.

你后来怎么做的？

What did you do?

我把自行车从地下室推出来，在一个美丽的秋日下午沿着街道骑行。我骑上了通往河边小径的路，那里风景真的很美。很快我就到了这条慢跑道上，但我轻松超过了所有慢跑者。阳光在斯库尔基尔河面上闪烁，我感觉棒极了——从西费城的家一路骑到艺术博物馆附近她家时，那种状态就像'这就是此刻我最想待的地方'。

Well, I got my bike out of the basement, and I biked down my street on a beautiful fall afternoon. And I biked up to the path that takes me to, the route along the river, which is really beautiful. So, pretty soon, I was on this jogging path, but I was just flying past the joggers. And the light was reflecting off of the Schuylkill River, and I just felt amazing. Like, I went all the way from where I live in West Philadelphia over to where she lives near the art museum in this kind of state of feeling like this is exactly where I wanna be right now.

在这个美好的秋日下午外出，拥有那段户外时光，那段属于自己的时光，感觉真的很好。

Like, I'm out on this beautiful fall afternoon, and having that time outside, having that me time felt really good.

某种程度上，我觉得有些人回避这种做法是因为它几乎像在作弊。因为现在你去探望祖母部分原因是你真心喜欢骑行。你喜欢户外。你喜欢斯库尔基尔河的景色。或许我们潜意识里认为，好事必须经历艰难才算数。

I mean, in some ways, I think some of us shy away from doing this because it almost feels like cheating. Because in some ways now, you're you're you're visiting your grandmother in part now because you actually like biking. You like being outside. You like the the look of the Schuylkill River. And I think perhaps some of us have in our heads that for things to be good, they actually have to be hard.

仿佛运动要有意义就必须包含痛苦。而你的观点是：并非如此。

That if for exercise to be meaningful, it has to involve suffering. And what you're saying is, no, it doesn't.

完全正确。我认为生活中能找到欢乐时刻、联结时刻、幸福时刻的地方越多越好——我们应该尽可能抓住这些机会。

Exactly. I think that, you know, the more places in our life where we can find moments of joy, moments of connection, moments of happiness, like, think we should take them where we can get them.

艾米丽和其他研究者发现，当我们的决心能与身份认同或研究者称为大脑'自我关联网络'的方面联系起来时，这些决心更容易持续。

Emily and other researchers find that our resolutions are more likely to stick when we can link them with aspects of our identity, or what researchers call the self relevance network in the brain.

我认为我们可以思考如何将那些未必立即与自我认知相关联的目标或想做的事，与我们已有的优势或正在做的事情联系起来。比如我的情况是：我跑步主要是为了减压发泄。我有两个更专业的跑者兄妹。有天我弟弟向我推销一个观点——如果做些针对性训练，我可以跑得更快。起初我有点疑惑：我干嘛要在乎跑得快慢呢？

I think one thing that we can do is think about how the goals that we have or the things that we want to do, but that we might not necessarily immediately connect with our sense of who we are, could be connected to strengths we already have or things that we're already doing. So one thing that happened for me was, you know, I I go for jogs mostly to de stress, to blow off some steam. And I have two siblings who are much more serious runners. And one day, my brother was pitching me on the idea that if I did some targeted workouts, that I could get faster. And initially, I sort of wondered, like, why would I care about getting faster in the first place?

比如，成长过程中，我更多把自己看作书呆子而非运动健将。跑步最初并不构成我身份认同的一部分。但我哥哥换了个角度解读，他说学者往往能成为优秀跑者，因为学者擅长规划，擅长为长期回报付出努力。这让我意识到，通过艰苦训练提升速度并非遥不可及，而是我本就具备相应能力和心性的事。

Like, growing up, I was, you know, I thought of myself probably more like as a nerd than as a jock. And it wasn't immediately part of my identity to think of myself as a runner in that way. And my brother framed it a different way. He said, you know, academics often make really good runners because academics are good at planning, academics are good at, working hard on things that, you know, have some payoff in the long term. And so that shifted it from something where, you know, doing these harder workouts to get faster would, just be to do it to something that I already had the skills, the disposition to do.

他还增加了社交激励——如果我跑得更快，就能加入哥哥姐姐的跑步圈听八卦，这对我可是巨大动力。

He also added another social reward, which was that if I got faster, I could run with my brother and sister and hear the gossip, which, of course, is very motivating for me.

你觉得你哥哥是刻意为之吗？他是单纯提供建议，还是研读过你的著作后采取了这种有效策略？

Was your brother, you think, aware of what he was doing? That was it was he just sort of offering this as a helpful piece of guidance, or had he read some of your work and figured out that this was what was gonna be effective?

不确定他是否专门读过我的书，但这确实是种策略性的表达方式。

Well, I don't know if you had read my work specifically, but I think it was a strategic way to frame things.

因为他本质上没有说'艾米丽不是跑者'，而是引导你认同'跑步正是艾米丽该做的事'。这种认知转换非常巧妙且关键。

Because in some ways, I think what he got you to do was instead of saying, Emily is not a runner, he got you to say, well, running is the kind of thing that Emily should be doing. And in some ways, that's a very clever and important shift.

没错。坦白说我现在也不会总做速度训练，但通过和兄妹一起跑步发现自身潜力后，我常在跑步尾声加练——比如最后几个街区冲刺测试极限。这些长期来看能提升速度的小练习，逐渐融入我的身份认同，形成正向循环：越认同跑者身份，就越坚持训练。

Exactly. And so, you know, I I will admit, I am not, like, doing speed workouts all the time. But after learning a little bit about what I was capable of by doing that with my brother and with my sister, now at the end of my run, sometimes I will work in a little bit more. You know, I'll push myself for the last couple blocks to see how fast I can run or do those little things that over the long run, they promise me are gonna make me a faster runner. And when I do that in my runs, then it gets incorporated into my identity and there's this feed forward cycle of the more that I think of it as something that I do, the more I do it.

关于自我认同，有些特质我们视为核心。你可能曾认定'我是学者，专注思想世界，跑步不适合我'。但你哥哥成功将学术特质的某个方面与跑步的核心要素联结了起来。

And of course, when we think about our self identities, there are some things that feel very core to us. So you might have previously thought, you know, I'm an academic. I'm primarily interested in the world of ideas. You know, running is not for me. But your brother found a way in some ways of connecting one aspect of what it means to be an academic with a very central aspect of what it means to be a runner.

这启示我们：追求目标时，总能找到现有身份中尚未开发的潜能。若策略性地将计划与身份特质关联，就能从核心认同中发掘助力实现目标的资源。

And that tells me that in many ways, as we're looking for things to do, there are probably ways to harness many of the goals we have with aspects of our identity that in some ways that we're not doing already. That if we're strategic about how we connect our resolutions to our identities, we can find things in our core identities that are better harnessed or connected to our resolutions.

正是如此。假设你有个同事因重要演讲焦虑，他不认为自己擅长表达。但你在办公室派对上见过他作为外向灵魂人物的一面，就可以帮他建立社交场合的感染力与演讲台表现力的关联。当我们审视目标与阻碍时，'我不是做某类事的人'这种认知可能就是最大障碍。

That's right. So let's say that you have somebody that you work with who's really nervous about making a big presentation, and they don't necessarily think of themselves as being a great presenter. But you've seen them at the office party, and you know that they are an extrovert who is the life of the party. And so you might help them see the connection between that way that they are able to connect with other people in a crowd in one situation with that same kind of connection that they might have in other situations. And so as we think about, you know, what are the goals that we have and what are the things that are getting in the way, one of the things that might be getting in the way is if we think, well, I'm not a person who does x.

实际上我们可以转换思维：'我现有的哪些特质能支持我达成这个目标？'

And in reality, we can shift to think about, like, well, what are the things that are true of me that could support being able to do that thing?

艾米丽，我们之前讨论过社交世界在塑造大脑价值体系方面的力量。你说利用心理学家所称的‘社会认同’是调动社会影响力的一种方式。虽然我们在节目中曾探讨过这个概念，但究竟什么是社会认同？它是如何运作的，我们又该如何善用它？

We talked earlier about the power of our social worlds in shaping the value system in the brain, Emily. You say that one way to enlist the power of social influence is to make use of what psychologists call social proof. Now we've discussed this idea previously on the show, but what is social proof? How does it work, and how can we take advantage of it?

社会认同指的是我们会受到周围人行为或想法的影响。当我们看到别人在做某件事时，就会认为这是个好主意。这种影响甚至常常发生在人们的意识之外。例如在加州，研究者调查了不同家庭的能源使用情况，发现当询问人们影响其节能行为的因素时，他们提到成本等因素，却并不认为邻居的用电习惯会显著影响自己的决策。

Social proof is the idea that we are influenced by what the people around us are doing or thinking. And so when we see that other people are doing something, then that makes us think that it's a good idea. And social proof influences people often outside of their conscious awareness even. So for example, in California, researchers studied the energy use of different people of different households. And what they found was that when they asked people what they thought was influencing their energy use behaviors, that people said that, you know, their costs and other factors were influencing it.

然而数据显示，他人的用电行为确实能有效预测这些人的实际选择。基于此，研究团队设计了一项实验：向部分居民传递强调社会认同的信息，比如‘77%的圣马科斯居民夏季常用电扇而非空调降温’。这种信息突显了‘多数邻居都在这样做’。

But they didn't actually think that their neighbor's energy use was particularly impactful in their decisions. And yet, when the researchers looked at what was actually influencing their decisions, it turned out that other people's energy use behavior was pretty predictive of what those folks were doing. And so based on that, what the research team did was they ran an experiment where they gave some people messages that were focused on social proof. Like, for example, 77% of San Marcos residents often use fans instead of air conditioning to keep cool in the summer. So that's a message that's highlighting that a lot of your neighbors are doing this thing.

另一组收到的是单纯呼吁节能的信息，比如建议使用电扇替代空调。还有组别接收到经济节约等不同诉求。结果发现，获知邻里节能行为的家庭，其节能量显著超过其他组别。

And other people got messages that were focused on, you know, just asking them to consider how they might conserve energy. Like, for example, by using fans instead of air conditioning. And other people got other kinds of appeals. So things like saving money. And they found, the researchers found that the households that were told about their neighbors' conservation efforts, that they ended up saving more energy than people in the other groups.

这项研究最引人深思的是：那些明显受到信息影响的人，仍坚称他人的行为是他们能源决策中最不重要的考量因素。

And the thing that I think is really fascinating about this study is that those folks who are influenced by the messages still reported that what other people were doing was the least important reason for them making the energy decisions that they were making.

听说你在实验室里运用了非常有趣的社会影响力技术，涉及一个叫做‘WADI WAT WAT’的概念？

So I understand that you have a very interesting technique of deploying social influence with others in your lab, and it involves working on something that you call what eat what what?

是的。这个术语要归功于研究目标追寻的神经科学家埃利奥特·伯克曼。WADI WAT WAT是‘在不想做事的时候处理那件事’的缩写。我们常有些不愿做却必须完成的事。在实验室里，我们通过集体行动让这些任务变得更有吸引力。

Yeah. Well, that term, the credit goes to Elliot Berkman, who's also a neuroscientist who studies goal pursuit. The idea of WADI WAT WAT is an acronym for work on that thing you don't want to work on time. There are a lot of things that we don't necessarily want to do, know, things that we don't feel like doing, but that we know we need to do. And what we do in our lab is we try to make those things that we know we don't really want to work on more rewarding by doing them together.

比如有人在我们的通讯平台发起‘有人要开个抗拖延作战会吗？’，就会聚集起一群人。关键是有固定时长——你不必永远面对讨厌的事。我们相互提供支持鼓励，并彼此监督问责。

So somebody might post on our messaging platform, you know, does anybody want to have a work on that thing session? And then a bunch of other people will get together. And the idea is that there's a set amount of time. You don't have to do a thing that you don't want to do forever. But we give each other support and encouragement and hold each other accountable for the thing.

他人的存在能重新平衡价值评估：既能与人交流很有趣，共同承诺又利用了社交奖励机制，这些都显著提高了任务完成率。

And so having somebody else there kind of helps rebalance the value calculation because it's fun to get to catch up with somebody else. And committing to doing it together with somebody else taps into that idea of social rewards as well and makes it more likely that we'll get it done.

你本人尝试过不同的目标实现方法。比如学吉他时，不同老师侧重不同教学方向。能分享一下这些经历吗？哪种方式最有效？

So you've had your own experience with different approaches to working on a goal. At one point, you were trying to learn to play the guitar, and you've had different teachers who've emphasized different aspects of the guitar. Tell me about your experience with these different teachers and what's proven to be most effective.

是的。2019年，我父亲去世了。在我成长过程中，父亲总会弹吉他，让音乐充满我们的家。他会过来和我的孩子们一起演奏。我小时候，我们会一起唱歌，他弹摇滚、民谣等各种类型的音乐。

Yeah. In 2019, my dad died. And my dad, when I was growing up, would always play the guitar and fill our house with music. He would come over and play with my kids. And when I was younger, we would, you know, sing and he would play rock and roll music or folk music, other kinds of things.

他去世后，我强烈地感受到这种缺失，以至于决定学习吉他。我开始尝试自学，观看在线视频激励自己。后来发现宾大有个项目能帮你联系音乐老师，我很幸运地遇到了一位优秀的老师。

And after he died, I really felt that absence very strongly and so much that I decided that I was gonna learn how to play the guitar. And I started trying to figure out how to do that. I watched videos online, and I was trying to motivate myself. And I learned that I'm really lucky that at Penn, there's a program where they will, connect you with a music teacher. And so I got connected with a music teacher who was great.

他充满热情，是位古典吉他手，但主要专注于古典音乐。而我学吉他有着非常个人化的原因。当我问起父亲喜欢或我们曾一起演奏的音乐类型时，他的态度更像是‘你自己会弄明白的’，但这并非我们练习的重点。

He was really, enthusiastic. He was a classical guitarist. But he was also really focused on classical music. And I had this goal to learn how to play the guitar for really personal reasons. And when I asked him about, you know, the kinds of music that my dad liked or that my dad and I would play together, it was sort of something that he was like, yeah.

于是我通过奖励机制坚持练习，比如‘练十分钟就能吃颗松露巧克力’。试图让奖励即时可见，但这很困难。后来疫情爆发，我暂停了课程。等疫情缓和孩子们返校后，我有了更多精力决定再试一次，经推荐找到了一位主要教孩子的吉他老师。

You'll figure that out. But it wasn't central to the practice that we were doing together. And so I would kind of bribe myself through practice sessions. Like, alright. If you practice for ten minutes, then you can eat a chocolate truffle at the end or something.

我认为这很关键——专门教孩子的老师意味着他们更懂得如何引导初学者。我遇到了现任老师加布里埃尔，他也是我儿子西奥的老师。加布里埃尔采用了完全不同的教学方式：他非常关注我学琴的初衷，会把我父亲演奏的音频片段转录成谱，还让我列出想学的歌曲。

And, you know, again, trying to, like, bring the reward as close as possible. But it was hard. And the pandemic struck, and I paused the lessons for lots of reasons. But then, you know, as the pandemic eased and my kids went back to school face to face, I had a little bit more bandwidth again, and I decided I was gonna try again. And I got a recommendation for a guitar teacher who mostly teaches kids.

然后他会根据我的水平改编这些曲子。突然间，练习不再像苦差事——我不必想着‘现在练练习曲是为了将来实现目标’，而是已经身处目标之中，只不过是在适合我的水平上演奏。

And I think that's key because, you know, a guitar teacher who really teaches kids tells you something about what they're willing to engage with. And, I met Gabriel, who's who's my guitar teacher now and also my son, Theo's guitar teacher. And Gabriel took a totally different approach. So, he was very, focused on why I wanted to play. And he would take little, like, audio clips that I had of my dad playing and transcribe them for me and ask me for a list of songs that that I was interested in.

这种方式对我的孩子们也很有效——他们可以从自己喜欢的曲子开始学。虽然老师也会安排练习，但总是与他们的目标曲目相关联。这样就不会觉得重复训练与未来能演奏音乐之间存在割裂感。

And then he would write them out at a level that was appropriate for where I was. And so when I was practicing, all of a sudden now, it didn't feel like work. It didn't feel like, okay, now I'm doing my etudes and I'm doing the hard thing, that's gonna get me to this goal later. I was already there. Right?

现在练习时，我不再感觉‘此刻是在为将来某个抽象时刻能演奏而苦练’，而是已经活在音乐里。这种教学方式对我孩子们同样有效——他们能自主选择启蒙曲目，老师则将基本功训练与他们想学的具体歌曲动机相结合。

I was already doing the thing that was the future goal just at a level that was appropriate for me. And, you know, that's worked really well for my kids too, that they get to choose the music that they start with. And, you know, he has them do exercises sometimes as well, but he connects it to their goal, their motivation of the particular, song that they wanna work on. And then it doesn't make it feel like there's a separation between the repetitions and the practice that we're doing right now and some future abstract, you know, time when we're gonna be able to play music.

艾米丽，加布里埃尔的做法让我震撼——他实践了我们谈话中提到的所有要点：询问什么与你的生活相关？如何让乐趣即刻发生而非延迟满足？如何让学习路径尽可能可及且自我导向？某种意义上，他既是你的老师，也是你的学生。

I mean, I'm so struck that Gabriel did so many of the things that we've talked about in this conversation, Emily. You know, he basically asked you, what's relevant to your life? How do we make the fun start now as opposed to start later on? How do we make this as accessible and as self relevant as possible so you are directing your own course of learning? I mean, in some ways, he is a student of yours as much as you are a student of his.

确实。我非常欣赏他的教学方式。他始终为我保留情感空间——有时上课我会突然情绪激动，但他从不慌乱，只是静静等待或独自弹奏一会儿。

Well, yeah. I mean, I I really appreciate the way that that he has done that. And, you know, also just holding space for why I was there. Like, sometimes at the beginning, I would get really emotional, and that didn't seem to fluster him. He would just kind of wait or maybe sit there and play himself for a little bit.

我认为这种整体性的理解很重要，有时候我们会把事情割裂开，比如‘我们在这里是因为我要教艾米丽弹吉他’，而不是‘我们在这里共享这段经历’。所以我尝试在督促孩子练习时也贯彻这种理念。西奥学吉他，埃米特和加布里埃尔一起学钢琴。当我和西奥一起练习时，如果他开始弹奏非本周作业的其他曲子，在我状态最好的时候，我会退一步想：其实我们做这一切的目标是为了建立联结，共同享受乐趣。而不是说‘嘿，你该花十分钟专注练巴赫’

And I think that kind of holistic understanding of, like, sometimes we kind of segment off, like, okay, we're here because I'm gonna try to get Emily to learn how to play the guitar, rather than, like, we're here to have this experience together. And so, like, I try to channel some of that when I'm trying to get my kids to practice. Theo plays the guitar and Emmett plays the piano with Gabriel. And, you know, if if I'm sitting there practicing with Theo and he starts, you know, playing some other song that's not technically his homework for the week, When I'm being my best self, I can take a step back and think about, like, well, actually, the goal of this whole thing is for us to be able to connect and do this fun thing together. And so rather than being like, hey, you're supposed to spend ten minutes focusing on Bach.

我可以提醒自己：这就是我们想做的事，此刻我们正在实现它。毕竟他大概率不会成为职业演奏家——这才是我们真正的初衷。

Like, you know, I I can remind myself that, like, actually, this is the thing that we're trying to do. We're doing it right now. Rather than, like, you know, he's probably never gonna be a concert musician. And so so this is why we're here.

某种程度上这揭示了一个重要观点，艾米丽——我们常以割裂的视角看待自我。比如人们制定新年计划时会说‘我要更健康’‘少吃甜点’‘坚持练琴’

I mean, in some ways, this speaks to a really important idea, Emily, which is that I think we often have this very compartmentalized view of our own selves. So we have the sense of the person who says, I want to be whatever, pick resolution. I want to be healthier. I want to be, you know, eat less dessert. I want to practice the piano.

‘要多看望祖母’。我们总在问：如何让其他方面的自我服从于这个具体目标？这是种自上而下、近乎等级制的自我管理观。而你描述的与加布里埃尔的互动展现的是更整合的状态——你是怀念父亲的女儿，是音乐人，是学者，所有这些身份共同构成了完整的艾米丽。

I want to call my grandmother. And we have this very compartmentalized view of saying, how do I make the rest of me fall in line with this vision that I have to do this particular thing? It's a very top down, you know, almost hierarchical vision of how we imagine ourselves behaving and being. I think what you're describing here with Gabriel is actually something that's much more integrated, where in some ways you are one Emily. You are the daughter of of someone who you loved and who you miss, and you're the musician, and you're the student, and you're the academic, and it's all it's all one person.

而不是五个互相撕扯的分身。

It's not five different people at war with each other.

是的，光是想到这些就让我眼眶发热。有次我把父亲常用的热身练习MP3发给加布里埃尔，后来我在客厅听到他弹奏时发现——

Yeah. I mean, it makes me feel emotional even just thinking about it. But one thing that comes to mind is there is this, like, warm up that my dad used to play. And, I remember when I gave that m p three to Gabriel, and he came back, and he was playing it. I was in the living room.

那段旋律其实非常简单，完全在我的能力范围内。那种与逝者产生联结的感觉，通过共同经历过的特殊事物建立的联系，实在美妙至极。现在我和孩子们演奏时，有时会选择我父亲创作的曲子，或是曾与他合唱的歌。当孩子蜷在我怀里，大吉他搁在他膝头，我们一起歌唱时，真的有种圆满的轮回感。

And it turned out that it was actually, like, really simple. And it was something that I did have access to be able to do. And that kind of, like, feeling connected to somebody who's not physically there, but where we've had the experience of doing something really special with them, like, just felt so good. And, you know, now, playing with my kids, like, when they play music, sometimes we choose songs that my dad wrote, and they learn how to play those songs or songs that I used to sing with my dad. And when I'm sitting there, like, with a kid snuggled in my lap and a big guitar on his lap, and I get to sing there, it feels like a really full circle kind of feeling.

没想到这个话题让我落泪...但这种感觉...真的太美好了。

Like, feels like I did not expect her to make me cry. It feels it feels amazing.

下周我们将带来与艾米丽对话的第二部分，探讨改变的障碍之一：防御心理。你可曾注意到，当你向朋友、同事或伴侣提出改进建议时，对方常会下意识固守立场？他们试图维持现状，

Next week, we bring you part two of our conversation with Emily. We look at one particular obstacle to change, defensiveness. Have you ever noticed when you offer a friend or a colleague or a partner a suggestion for improvement? They often experience an urge to dig in their heels rather than listening to how they might change or do something better. They try to preserve the status quo.

就像战场上的将军死守每寸领土，拒绝拥抱可能成为的更好的自己。我们将与艾米丽探讨如何突破防御心理，帮助生命中的人实现有价值的改变。若有后续问题或见解愿与Hidden Brain听众分享，请用手机录制语音备忘录发送至ideashiddenbrain.org，邮件主题注明「心理障碍」。再次提醒邮箱地址：ideashiddenbrain.org

Like generals fighting a war, they try to protect every square inch of the person they are instead of embracing the person they might become. We'll talk with Emily about how we can break through the barrier of defensiveness and help the people in our lives make valuable changes. If you have follow-up questions or thoughts for Emily that you'd be willing to share with the Hidden Brain audience please record a voice memo on your phone and email it to us at ideashiddenbrain dot org. Use the subject line Mental Barriers. That email address again is ideashiddenbrain dot org.

艾米丽·福尔克是宾夕法尼亚大学的心理学家和神经科学家，她著有《我们珍视什么：选择与改变的神经科学》一书。艾米丽，非常感谢你今天来到《隐藏的大脑》节目。

Emily Falk is a psychologist and neuroscientist at the University of Pennsylvania. She is the author of What We Value, The Neuroscience of Choice and Change. Emily, thank you so much for joining me today on Hidden Brain.

非常感谢邀请我。

Thank you so much for having me.

《隐藏的大脑》由Hidden Brain Media制作。我们的音频制作团队包括安妮·墨菲·保罗、克里斯汀·黄、劳拉·夸雷尔、瑞安·卡茨、奥顿·巴恩斯、安德鲁·查德威克和尼克·伍德伯里。塔拉·博伊尔是我们的执行制片人。我是《隐藏的大脑》的执行编辑。本周的无名英雄是一群超级粉丝，他们在我们波士顿地区的《隐藏的大脑》现场演出后与我共进晚餐。

Hidden Brain is produced by Hidden Brain Media. Our audio production team includes Annie Murphy Paul, Kristen Wong, Laura Quarrell, Ryan Katz, Autumn Barnes, Andrew Chadwick, and Nick Woodbury. Tara Boyle is our executive producer. I'm Hidden Brain's executive editor. Our unsung heroes this week are a group of super fans who joined me recently for a meal after our Hidden Brain live show in the Boston area.

劳拉·萨比亚、马修·弗莱明和迪娜·本·大卫，能与你们交流真是太好了。感谢你们对《隐藏的大脑》工作的兴趣和支持，我们由衷感激。如果你想支持我们的工作，并获取在其他地方听不到的对话内容，请考虑加入我们的播客订阅服务Hidden Brain Plus。九月份在Apple Podcasts加入的听众将享有延长至30天的免费试用期。

Laura Sabia, Matthew Fleming, and Dina Ben David, it was wonderful to have the opportunity to connect with you. Thanks for your interest and support of our work at Hidden Brain. We are truly grateful. If you'd like to support our work and have access to conversations you won't hear anywhere else, please consider joining our podcast subscription, Hidden Brain Plus. Listeners who join in the month of September on Apple Podcasts will have access to an extended thirty day free trial.

要订阅，请在Apple Podcasts上找到《隐藏的大脑》，点击“免费试用”按钮，或访问apple.co/hiddenbrain。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔，我们很快再见。

To subscribe, find Hidden Brain on Apple Podcasts and try the try free button. Or go to apple.co/hiddenbrain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. See you soon.