升级版你：激情之药

这是《Hidden Brain》。我是尚卡·韦丹塔。在好莱坞的浪漫与激情故事里，有一种固定套路。恋人们可能遭遇各种阻碍，但电影总以圆满收尾。情侣在跨年钟声敲响时亲吻。

This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. There's a pattern in Hollywood stories about romance and passion. The lovers may face all kinds of obstacles, but the movies end on a high note. The couple kiss as the ball drops on New Year's Eve.

他们在夕阳下的海滩相拥，在婚礼上庆祝。1967年的电影《毕业生》却略有不同。达斯汀·霍夫曼饰演的本杰明·布拉多克，闯入灵魂伴侣伊莲·罗宾逊（凯瑟琳·罗斯饰）的婚礼。他在教堂阳台打断仪式，高喊伊莲的名字。

They embrace on a beach at sunset. They celebrate at a wedding. The 1967 movie, The Graduate, does something a bit different. Benjamin Braddock, played by Dustin Hoffman, gatecrashes the wedding of his soul mate, Elaine Robinson, played by Catherine Ross. He interrupts the ceremony and shouts Elaine from the balcony of the church.

犹豫片刻后，伊莲喊道

After a moment of hesitation, Elaine shouts

回应，然后

back and

跑向他，拒绝新郎和父母期望。两人在混乱中逃离教堂，伊莲家人和宾客试图阻止。这对年轻情侣用巨大木制十字架突围，本杰明用它顶住教堂门后逃走。伊莲和本杰明登上停在路边的城市巴士，并肩坐在后排。巴士驶离时，他们先是大笑，为惊险逃脱兴奋不已。

runs to him, rejecting her bridegroom and her parents' expectations. The two escape the church amidst chaos, with Elaine's family and the wedding guests trying to stop them. The young couple fight off the crowd using a large wooden cross, which Benjamin uses to block the church doors as they make their getaway. Elaine and Benjamin then board a city bus sitting at the back together. As the bus drives away, they initially laugh, exhilarated by their daring escape.

然而，电影在此偏离好莱坞套路，他们的表情逐渐转为平静而暧昧。镜头定格在他们脸上，西蒙与加芬克尔的《寂静之声》响起。伊莲和本杰明似乎在问：接下来呢？开始一段恋情是一回事，维系爱情更难，需要更多技巧与成熟。

However, and this is where the movie veers from the Hollywood formula, their expressions slowly shift to a more subdued and ambiguous tone. The camera lingers on their faces as Simon and Garfunkel's The Sound of Silence plays in the background. Elaine and Benjamin seem to be asking, what now? Starting a love affair is one thing. Figuring out how to sustain their love is harder and will demand more skill and maturity.

个人关系中的真理同样适用于职场。曾经带来愉悦与激情的事物，终会乏味或空虚。今天节目及《Hidden Brain Plus》的配套报道，将探讨激情消退的迹象。我们聚焦工作，但部分经验也适用于亲密关系。我们误解了深度投入，本周《Hidden Brain》将讲述如何让激情长存。节目由ADT赞助。

What is true in our personal relationships is also true in our professional lives. There comes a time when the things we once engaged in with pleasure and passion grow boring or unfulfilling. Today on the show and in a companion story on Hidden Brain Plus, we look at the signs of what makes passion fade. We will focus on our work lives but some of the lessons apply to our personal relationships too. What we get wrong about deep engagement and how to keep our passions alive this week on Hidden Brain Support for Hidden Brain comes from ADT.

度假时把钥匙放门垫下？算“挺安全”。依赖这些“挺安全”的家居安全妙招虽简单，但我们知道它们并不管用。ADT专业安装的系统提供安心与真正安全，含24小时监控及可通过ADT+应用查看的摄像头。别满足于“挺安全”。

Putting the key under the mat when you take a vacation? That's safe ish. It's easy to rely on safe ish home security hacks, but we know they don't actually work. ADT's professionally installed systems offer peace of mind and real security with services like twenty four seven monitoring and cameras you can check using the ADT plus app. Don't settle for Safish.

选择ADT。访问adt.com或致电+1 800。节目支持来自戴尔。搭载英特尔酷睿Ultra处理器的戴尔AI PC大幅优惠来袭，全新设计助你更快完成更多任务。它们能生成代码、编辑图像、无延迟多任务、起草邮件、总结文档、实时翻译，甚至延长续航。这就是内置英特尔的戴尔AI之力。

Get ADT. Visit adt.com or call +1 800 Support for HiddenBrain comes from Dell. Huge savings on Dell AI PCs with Intel Core Ultra processors are here, and they are newly designed to help you do more faster. They can generate code, edit images, multitask without lag, draft emails, summarize documents, create live translations, and even extend your battery life. That's the power of Dell AI with Intel Inside.

立即升级，请访问dell.com/deals。《Hidden Brain》支持来自AT&T。有人支持你的感觉无与伦比。这种可靠难得，但AT&T正以AT&T保障将其变为常态。保持连接至关重要。

Upgrade today by visiting dell.com/deals. Support for Hidden Brain comes from AT and T. There's nothing better than feeling like someone has your back. That kind of reliability is rare, but AT and T is making it the norm with the AT and T Guarantee. Staying connected matters.

获得您可以信赖的连接。这就是AT&T的承诺。AT&T，连接改变一切。条款与条件适用。详情请访问att.com/guarantee。

Get connectivity you can depend on. That's the AT and T Guarantee. AT and T Connecting changes everything. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee for details.

这是大学毕业典礼上最古老的一句格言：追随你的热情。找到你热爱的事情，你的未来就会水到渠成。在哈佛商学院，行为科学家简·亚希莫维奇研究我们的热情如何随时间变化，以及我们如何长期管理它们。简·亚希莫维奇，欢迎来到《隐藏的大脑》。

It's the oldest aphorism at college commencement ceremonies. Follow your passion. Find something you love and your future will take care of itself. At Harvard Business School, behavioral scientist Jan Yahimovich studies how our passions change over time and how we can manage them long term. Jan Yahimovich, welcome to Hidden Brain.

非常感谢你邀请我，尚卡尔。

Thank you so much for having me, Shankar.

简，作为一个年轻人，你想改变世界，我了解到这种动力部分与你家庭迁徙和失落的故事有关？

Jan, as a young man, you wanted to change the world, and I understand this drive was partly connected with your own family's story of migration and loss?

是的，让我稍微回溯一下。我的父母都在波兰华沙长大，那是二战之后，他们是犹太人。1968年，经济停滞和危机引发了学生抗议。作为回应，波兰政府发动了一场反犹运动。

Yeah. Let me back up a little bit. So, both of my parents grew up in Warsaw, Poland in the aftermath of World War two, and they were Jewish. In 1968, there was economic stagnation and crises that led to a student protest. In response, the Polish government led an anti Semitic campaign.

犹太人面临很多敌意。我父亲的母亲，也就是我奶奶，在华沙大学工作。有一天，她走进办公室，想用钥匙开门，却发现钥匙打不开。她问清洁工怎么回事，清洁工说她的锁被换了，因为她不再被允许进入。于是，面对歧视和敌意，绝大多数犹太人最终离开了波兰，包括我的父母和所有亲戚。

Jews faced a lot of hostility. My father's mother, so my grandmother on my father's side, she worked at the University of Warsaw. And one day, she walked into her office, and she tried to open the door to her office with her key, and the key didn't work anymore. She asked the janitor what was going on, and the janitor said that her lock had been changed because she was no longer allowed to be there. And so in response to the discrimination and hostility, the vast majority of Jews ended up leaving Poland, including both of my parents and my extended family.

他们都走了。我的父母最终都定居在德国。我父亲在那里找到了工作，他们在那里为我们建立了新生活，我也是在那里出生和长大的。

They all left. Both of my parents ultimately settled in Germany. That's where my father ended up getting a job, and that's where they built a new life for us and that's where I was born and raised.

简说，作为移民在德国生活很艰难。一家人挣扎求生，感到孤立。社会流动很困难。简开始希望世界能更公平、更友善。高中毕业后，他偶然读到一本书，那本书仿佛直接在对他说话。

Jan says life was hard for immigrants in Germany. The family struggled and felt isolated. Social mobility was difficult. Jan found himself wishing the world was a fairer and kinder place. After he graduated high school, he stumbled on a book that seemed to speak to him directly.

这本书是《山外有山》，由特蕾西·基德尔撰写，她写了医生保罗·法默的传记。保罗·法默是著名的公共卫生倡导者，他创办了“健康伙伴”组织，最初在海地，后来扩展到全球。这本书在我18岁时改变了我。在书中，你看到特蕾西·基德尔描写保罗挑战那些你认为不可能的事情。

This book was Mountains Beyond Mountains. It was written by Tracy Kitter, who wrote a biography of doctor Paul Farmer. Paul Farmer famously was a public health advocate who started Partners in Health, started off in Haiti, and then, scaled the organization all around the world. And the book at the time when I was 18, it transformed me. In the book, you see Tracy Kitter writing about Paul taking on these challenges that you think are impossible.

比如，书里有一个故事，一个男孩脸上长了肿瘤。男孩住在海地，当地没有人能做这个手术。唯一的办法是把男孩飞到波士顿做手术。当时保罗的职业生涯刚刚起步，但他相信他能做到。他能设法把男孩送到波士顿。

Like, there's this story in the book of a boy who has a tumor on his face. And, the boy lives in Haiti, and there's no one in Haiti that can perform that surgery. And the only way to perform that surgery would be to fly that that boy to Boston and and get him surgery there. Paul at the time was relatively early in his career, but he had this belief that he could make it happen. He could organize transport somehow for this boy to Boston.

他不知怎的说服了一支外科团队接受这台手术，确保男孩康复，然后把他送回去。结果真的成功了。最疯狂的是，他有这样的信念，而我离开时想，哇，也许我也能做到。也许这就是我想用我生命去做的事。

He would convince a team of surgeons somehow to take on this surgery, make sure that the boy's recovery works, and then fly him back. And it worked out. Like, that's the crazy thing is he had this belief, and I I walked away from that thinking, like, wow. Maybe I can do this too. Like, maybe this is what I wanna do with my life.

我想追求我真正热爱的事情，并把它推向更高的层次。

I wanna pursue something that I am passionate about and and and take that to the next step.

书中另一个教训是关于全力以赴的力量。你知道，没有犹豫，没有问题，全速前进。这对你有什么触动，Young？

Another lesson in the book was about the power of going all in. You know, no hesitations, no questions, full speed ahead. How did that strike you, Young?

我18岁的时候，我很喜欢它。你知道，这就是我想听到的，告诉我可以全力以赴，而且那样做会有回报。感受到你对某件事有如此坚定的信念，愿意把一切都押在上面，谁不想有那种感觉呢？那是一种令人振奋的感觉，我也渴望拥有那种感觉。

I mean, when I was 18, I loved it. You know, like, this is what I wanted to hear, that it's okay to to just go all in and that that will be rewarded. Like, to feel like you have that much conviction, that much belief in something, that you're willing to place everything on it, I mean, who doesn't wanna feel that way? That's an amazing feeling to have, and I aspire to have that feeling as well.

书中讲了一个故事，一位住在海地偏远地区的病人病得太重，无法前往保罗·法默的诊所。于是保罗·法默亲自去找病人。他必须徒步四个半小时才能到达病人那里。书中问为什么保罗·法默要离开一个繁忙的诊所去治疗一个病人。医生说，认为某些生命不那么重要的想法，是世界上所有问题的根源。

The book tells a story about a patient living in a remote area in Haiti who was too ill to make the trip to Paul Farmer's clinic. So Paul Farmer goes to the patient. He has to hike four and a half hours each way to the patient. And the book asks why Paul Farmer left a busy clinic to treat one patient. And the doctor says, the idea that some lives matter less is the root of all that's wrong with the world.

这是一个非常理想主义的愿景：没有生命是可以被牺牲的。

That's a powerfully idealistic vision that no lives are dispensable.

它让我明白，你可以对自己认为正确的事情有深刻的信念和价值观，最终你必须决定你认为正确的事情是什么。对保罗·法默来说，正确的事情就是徒步四五个小时去看一个病人，因为那个病人否则就无法得到医疗照顾。

It showed me that you can have a deep belief and a deep value about what you think is right, and that at the end of the day, you have to decide what you think is the right thing to do. And for Paul Farmer, the right thing to do was hiking four to five hours to see one patient because that patient wouldn't otherwise be able to receive medical care.

所以人们经常问保罗·法默，看到世界上这么多不公正，他会不会感到沮丧，他会回答说，对抗抑郁最好的保险就是积极对抗不公正。Jan，这种看法对你有什么触动？

So Paul Farmer was often asked if he felt depressed by all the injustice he saw in the world, and he would respond by saying, There's no better insurance against depression than to actively fight injustice. How did that sentiment strike you, Jan?

我对此感到非常兴奋，因为我正感受到世界问题的重压。我看到了前方的挑战，我在德国面临的挑战，以及作为一个年轻人所了解到的挑战。很难不气馁。看看新闻，你看到的只有坏事发生，某个坏人做了什么。要保持乐观，相信改变是可能的，相信个人可以带来改变，真的很难。

I was so excited about that because I was feeling the weight of the world's problems on my shoulders. I was seeing the challenges ahead of me, the challenges that I was facing in Germany, the challenges that I was learning about as a young man. And it's hard not to get discouraged. I mean, look at the news and the only thing you see is this bad thing is happening and this bad actor has done something. It's really hard to maintain a sense of optimism that change is possible, and in fact that people can make a difference.

然后听到保罗·法默说，如果你有这种感觉，解决办法就是去做点什么。一旦你去做点什么，你就不会再有那种感觉了。我感到非常兴奋。它真的吸引了我，把我拉了进去。我不知道该怎么做。

And then to hear Paul Farmer say, If you feel that way, the solution is to do something about it. And once you do something about it, you no longer feel that way. I felt really excited. It it really enthralled me, and it pulled me in. I didn't know how to do it.

我当时并不知道具体要做什么，但我知道这就是我想做的事。

I didn't know what exactly I would do, but I knew at the time this is what I wanted to do.

扬吞下了他所谓的“激情药丸”。大学毕业后，他去了纽约的哥伦比亚大学攻读研究生。他想做能改变公共政策、改变世界的研究。经过两三年非常艰苦的努力，他完成了一篇关于孟加拉国社会关系力量的论文。论文表明，有意义的社会联系可以成为向上流动的引擎，就像他自己的移民家庭在德国所渴望的那种向上流动。

Jan swallowed what he called the passion pill. After college, he went to Columbia University in New York to pursue graduate studies. He wanted to do research that would change public policy and change the world. After two or three years of very hard work, he came up with a paper about the power of social ties in Bangladesh. It showed that meaningful social connections could be an engine of upward mobility, the kind of upward mobility his own immigrant family had yearned for in Germany.

这篇论文对我个人意义非凡。我对它被接收发表感到非常兴奋。走到这一步是漫长的苦战，付出了无数小时的努力。我不仅为自己的工作终于有了成果而兴奋，更因为这件事对我意义如此重大——如果想到我的家庭故事，想到我想用一生去完成的事情，它完美契合。我还记得收到期刊接收邮件的那一刻。

This paper is so very personally meaningful to me. I was so excited about getting it published. It had been a long slog to get to this, like a lot of many, many hours of work. And I was so excited to not only have something to show for my work, but to have something that was so meaningful to me, something that if I think about my family story and if I think about what I wanted to accomplish with my life, it was so perfectly aligned. And I remember getting the the acceptance email from the journal.

你会收到一封很短的邮件，写着：恭喜，您的论文已被接收发表。当时我正在巴特勒图书馆，我哭了，情绪完全失控。紧接着我想到：现在，真正改变世界的时刻终于开始了。我在等《纽约时报》打电话来。

You get, like, a a very short email that says, Congratulations, your paper has been accepted for publication. Was in Butler Library and I was crying. I was just so overwhelmed with emotion. And then the immediate thought I had afterwards was, now the difference making finally begins. I was waiting for the New York Times to call.

我在等白宫打电话。我在等世界各地的决策者被这项研究点燃激情。我等了一天，等了一周，等了一个月，却什么也没发生。没有任何人联系我，连一次采访请求都没有。我开始变得非常沮丧。

I was waiting for the White House to call. I was waiting for policymakers around the world to get excited by this work. And I waited a day, I waited a week, I waited a month, and nothing happened. I didn't hear from anybody, not a single interview request or media interview. And I started getting really upset.

我心想，我做了这么多工作，我证明了某些东西，为什么没人听？我记得我去找了系里的一位资深教授乔尔·布罗克纳，向他倾诉我的挫败感：我在顶级期刊发表了论文，却什么都没改变。他笑了笑说，是啊。

I was like, I did all of this work. I proved something. Like, why isn't anybody listening? And I, remembered I I went to, a senior faculty member in the department, Joel Brokner, and I shared with him how frustrated I was that, you know, I published this paper in this prestigious journal and nothing had changed. And he kind of laughed, and he said, yeah.

“这就是常态。你知道，学术研究就是这样。如果你积累了一系列研究，幸运的话，也许有人会听，但你不能指望一篇论文就能改变世界。”我走出他的办公室时心情低落。你知道吗？

That's that's what happens. Like, you know, that's very normal for academic research. Sometimes if you build a body of research and you're lucky, somebody might listen, but you can't expect a single paper to change the world. I kind of walked out of there really down. You know?

我很难理解这对我意味着什么，也很难理解该如何面对这些信息。

I I had a hard time making sense of of of what that meant for me and hard time making sense of what to do with that information.

扬，我想知道当时你的心理状态如何。你带着极高的期望来到纽约，你崇拜保罗·法默，你想改变世界。而经过这三年在某种程度上把你磨得筋疲力尽的过程。

I'm wondering what your mental state was at this time, Jan. You had come to New York with these very high expectations. You dread Paul Farmer. You'd wanted to change the world. And you've been through three years of this process that in some ways had ground you down.

此刻你感觉如何？

How were you feeling at this point?

我当时情绪非常低落。我很难激励自己去做更多事情。比如，我会盯着小隔间里的电脑屏幕，然后问自己到底在干嘛。我看得见屏幕上的字，也能读那些我应该读的东西，但它们并没有真正进入我的大脑。它们不再像以前那样点燃我的热情。

I was feeling really low. I had a hard time to motivate myself to do more. Like, I would stare at my computer screen in my cubicle, and I just would ask myself what the heck I'm doing. I could see the words on the screen, and I could, like, read whatever I was supposed to be reading, but it wasn't registering in my mind. It wasn't lighting me up the way that it used to.

我记得就在同一个位置，看着同一台显示器，几周、几个月甚至几年前，读东西、写东西、分析数据时，内心都充满激情。而现在，我坐在同一把椅子上做同样的事，那种感觉却消失了。真的很让人错乱。我简直不知道该怎么办。为了来到这里，我牺牲了很多。

Like, I remember sitting in that very same spot, looking at the very same monitor, like, weeks, months, and years earlier and reading things or working on things, writing things, analyzing data, and feeling so fired up on the inside. And here I was sitting in the same chair doing the same things, and that feeling wasn't there anymore. Like, it was really discombobulating. Like, it it I just I didn't know what to do with myself. I had sacrificed a lot to be there.

我付出了很多长时间的努力才做到这一步。但我开始质疑，这一切到底值不值得，又是为了什么。

I'd worked many long hours to to do this. But I I started questioning, like, what it's all worth and what it's all for.

简的故事并不符合毕业典礼上那些高亢的演讲词，也不符合励志海报上阳光般的承诺。远见者告诉我们，最重要的是找到我们的热情。一旦我们确定了自己注定要做的事情，一切都会变得更容易。但在简的经历中，事实并非如此。稍后回来，我们将探讨为什么追求热情往往不像我们想象的那样顺利，以及该怎么办。

Jan's story didn't fit the soaring language of graduation speeches or the sunny promises of inspirational posters. Visionaries tell us that the important thing is to find our passion. Once we identify what we are meant to do, everything is supposed to get easier. But in Jan's experience, this just wasn't so. When we come back, why pursuing our passions often doesn't work out the way we imagine and what to do about it.

您正在收听《Hidden Brain》。我是尚卡尔·维丹塔姆。《Hidden Brain》的支持来自领英。最棒的B2B营销往往浪费在了错误的人身上。所以当你想触达合适的专业人士时，请使用领英广告。

You're listening to Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. Support for Hidden Brain comes from LinkedIn. The best b to b marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn Ads.

领英已成长为拥有超过10亿专业人士和1.3亿决策者的网络，这正是它区别于其他广告投放的地方。你可以按职位、行业、公司、角色、资历、技能、公司收入来精准定位买家，从而避免把预算浪费在错误受众上。正因如此，领英广告在所有在线广告网络中拥有最高的B2B广告回报率。真的，是所有网络中最高的。在领英广告上首次投放250美元，即可在下一次获得250美元免费额度。

LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1,000,000,000 professionals and 130,000,000 decision makers, and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys. You can target your buyers by job title, industry, company, role, seniority, skills, company revenue, so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. It's why LinkedIn ads generates the highest B2B ROAs of all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one.

无任何附加条件。只需访问linkedin.com/brain。即linkedin.com/brain。条款与条件适用。《Hidden Brain》的支持也来自BetterHelp。

No strings attached. Just go to linkedin.com/brain. That's linkedin.com/brain. Terms and conditions apply. Support for Hidden Brain comes from BetterHelp.

我们都经历过那种史诗级的拼车之旅。行程过半，你就知道了他们的失恋故事，他们也知道了你想去葡萄牙寻找自我的梦想。这很人性。我们都在寻找连接，希望有人倾听。但有时，我们倾诉心声的对象并不一定能真正帮我们度过难关。

We've all had that epic rideshare experience. Halfway through the trip, you know their heartbreak, and they know your aspirations to go find yourself in Portugal. It's human. We're all looking for connection, for someone to listen. But sometimes, the people we spill our hearts to aren't exactly equipped to help us through it.

凭借十多年帮助数百万人的数据经验，BetterHelp会根据你的目标为你匹配治疗师。无需四处求推荐，也无需无休止地浏览列表。只需在线回答几个问题，你就能被匹配到一位治疗师，通常48小时内即可完成。加入全球超过500万信任BetterHelp改善心理健康的用户行列。找到真正懂你的治疗师。

With over a decade of data backed experience from helping millions of people, BetterHelp matches you with a therapist based on your goals. No asking for recommendations or endless scrolling through listings. Simply answer a few questions online and you'll be matched with a therapist, often in as little as forty eight hours. Join over 5,000,000 people worldwide who've trusted BetterHelp for their mental health and well-being. Get a therapist who gets you.

访问betterhelp.com/hidden，首月立减10%。即betterhelp.com/hidden。这里是《Hidden Brain》，我是尚卡尔·维丹塔姆。追随你的梦想。

Visit betterhelp.com/hidden to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com/hidden. This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta. Follow your dreams.

做你热爱的事。按自己的节奏前行。如今很多人说，他们不只是想找一份工作。他们想要的是激情，是使命。在哈佛商学院，行为科学家严亚希莫维奇研究当人们追求激情时，现实世界会发生什么。

Do what you are passionate about. March to your own drummer. Many people nowadays say they don't just want to work at a job. They want a passion, a calling. At Harvard Business School, behavioral scientist Yan Yahimovich studies what happens in the real world when people pursue their passions.

他的发现挑战了我们常听到的传统说法。简，看到你如何努力保持对工作的热情，你决定开展一个个人激情项目。你当时住在纽约，一个来自世界各地的人汇聚于此追梦的地方。你联系了许多认识的人，问了一个简单的问题。这个问题是什么？

What he has found challenges the conventional narrative we often hear. Jan, having seen how you struggle to maintain enthusiasm for your work, you decided to create a personal passion project. You were living in New York, a place where people come from all over the world to follow their dreams. And you reached out to lots of people you knew, and you asked them a simple question. What was this question?

于是我问我认识的每一个人，所有的朋友和熟人。我说，你认识的最有激情的人是谁？能把我介绍给他吗？我想跟他聊聊。在接下来的两年里，我最终采访了来自各行各业的200多人。

So I asked everybody that I knew, all my friends and acquaintances. And I said, who's the most passionate person that you know? Can you put me in touch with them? I wanna talk to them. And over the next two years, I ended up talking to over 200 people from all walks of life.

我采访了运动员、音乐家和艺术家。我采访了企业家、商界人士，从CEO到初级员工，各种背景的人都有。我问他们的问题是：你有没有失去过激情？那是什么感觉？你后来做了什么来重新找回它？

I talked to athletes, musicians, and artists. I talked to entrepreneurs, people in business, from CEOs to entry level, people who had all types of backgrounds. And the question that I asked them was, have you ever fallen out of passion? What's that like? What did you do since to regain it?

因为我想给自己找建议。我就是我想治疗的那个人。我是我自己研究的患者。这对我来说是一次如此深刻的学习经历，我一次又一次听到的内容最终改变了我职业的轨迹。

Because I wanted advice for me. I was the person that I wanted to treat. I was the patient of my own research. It was just such a learning experience for me that what I ended up hearing again and again ended up changing the trajectory of my career.

你采访的其中一位是前加拿大网球选手，她在23岁时就遭遇了瓶颈。简，给我讲讲她的故事。

One of the people you interviewed was a former Canadian tennis player who hit a wall when she was just 23. Tell me her story, Jan.

于是我在《纽约时报》上读到了一篇关于亚历山德拉·沃兹尼亚克的文章。她公开透露，几年前，当她达到职业生涯巅峰、世界排名第21位时，她从网球界消失了几年。当时人们并不真正知道原因。但几年后她回来了，说，其实我当时在经历倦怠，我真的很难坚持下去。

So I read this article in the New York Times about Alexandra Wozniak. She had publicly come out that a few years earlier, as she was hitting a career high, she was ranked number 21 in the world, and she then disappeared from the tennis landscape for a few years. And people didn't really know why at the time. But a couple years later, she came back and she said, look, I was actually experiencing burnout. I was actually having a really hard time to keep going.

我最终和她聊了，我问她，在那段时间里你学到了什么？你如何解释23岁时发生的事，当时你世界排名第21位？她击败过塞雷娜·威廉姆斯。想想看，那真是一项了不起的成就。

And I ended up talking to her, and I asked her, what did you learn in that time period? Like, how do you explain what happened to you when you were 23, when you were, you know, at the top of the world, ranked twenty first in the world? She had beat Serena Williams. Like, think about that. Like, that's just such an accomplishment.

我从她那里听到的是几件事。首先，她告诉我，这真的很困难，因为网球不再带给她快乐。当她年轻时刚接触网球时，对网球的感觉是不同的。但一旦她取得成功，打球不再只是擅长网球，而是关乎成功、奖金、收入、竞争。

And what I what I heard from her was a couple of things. The first that I thing that I heard is it was really difficult because tennis no longer brought her joy. Like, when she was younger and she first entered tennis, there was a different feeling around tennis. But once she became successful, playing a game was no longer about just being good at tennis. Playing the game was now about success, about winning money, about earnings, about competition.

你知道，她有声誉要维护。在加拿大，人们对她的期望很高，她肩负着很多责任，这不是她当初签约时想要的，也不是她充分准备好的。另一件事是，它最终变成了一份工作。你知道，我们可以说你应该追随你的激情，或者把激情变成职业。

You know, she had a reputation to uphold. In Canada, there were a lot of expectations about all that she would be able to accomplish. There was a lot to bear on her shoulders, and it wasn't what she would sign up for, and it wasn't something that she was adequately prepared for. The other thing is that it ended up becoming a job. Like, you know, it's fine for us to say you should follow what you're passionate about or you should turn your passions into your career.

但当你把热爱的事情变成工作时，它就成了我们的收入来源，也成了身份的象征。它变成了：我每天都在做什么？我要怎么维持这一切？

But when you turn something that you're passionate about into a job, now that's a source of income for us. Now that's a source of status. Like, now that it becomes, what do I do day to day? Like, how do I keep this going?

所以，她并不是唯一一个告诉你，她是带着激情和热爱进入网球世界的人，然后就像你在某些方面对你所做的事情失去了热爱一样，她在某些方面也对网球失去了热爱。你听到很多人都有类似的感慨。

So she was not the only one who told you that she entered the world of tennis with passion, with love, and then in some ways had fallen out of love with tennis, just like you had fallen in some ways out of love with what you were doing, you heard this as a common refrain from many of the people you talked with.

几乎每个人当我问他们，你有没有曾经失去过激情？如果有，发生了什么？他们都有一个现成的故事。他们准备好告诉我，他们曾经情绪跌到谷底，差点放弃，他们有很多朋友也做了同样的事，最终真的放弃了。每一个我交谈过的、经历过这种激情消退的人，在当时都感到非常困惑、沮丧和深深的挫败。

Almost every single person when I asked them the question, have you ever fallen out of passion? And if yes, like, what happened? They had a story locked and loaded. Like, they were ready to tell me about a time when they hit emotional rock bottom, when they were close to quitting, where, you know, they had many friends who were doing the same things who actually ended up quitting. Every single person that I talked to who had experienced this falling out of passion at the moment it happened was incredibly confused, disheartened, and deeply frustrated.

他们不知道发生了什么，因为从他们的角度来看，他们做了所有正确的事。他们找到了自己热爱的事情，然后找到了一个可以追求这份热爱的职业。然后像保拉·法默一样，他们全力以赴，真的去做了。

Like, they didn't know what was going on because from their perspective, they'd done all the right things. They had figured out what it is that they were passionate about. They had then found a career where they could pursue it. And then like Paula Farmer, they went all in. They did it.

他们不只是做了一天或一个月，而是做了好几年，但这还不够。这不足以阻止激情的消退。因为他们投入了太多自己，也因为这件事对他们意义重大，当他们失去激情时，那种痛苦是非常深的。

And they did it not just for a day or a month. They did it for years, and that wasn't enough. Like, that wasn't enough to stave off this falling out of passion. And because they invested so much of themselves and because it mattered so much to them, when they fell out of passion, it was deeply painful.

所以你决定开始研究激情本身，它是如何变化的，如何消退的，我们能做些什么。你观察到的一件事是，仅仅因为你在做你热爱的事情，并不意味着你的日子会变得轻松或愉快。事实上，事情可能会更难。为什么会这样，扬？

So you decided that you would start to study passion itself, how it changes, how it fades, what we can do about it. One thing you observed is that just because you're doing something you love, that doesn't mean that your days are going to be easy or enjoyable. In fact, things might be harder. Why is that, Jaan?

我觉得这里有几个不同的挑战。第一，当我们追求激情时，有些事情并不那么光鲜，也不会激发太多热情。做研究的时候，99%的时间你都是一个人盯着电脑屏幕，你不会每天都有突破让你充满动力。运动员也一样，能在球场上赢球或处于绝佳位置当然很棒，但很多时候你是在幕后举重、拉伸、打磨技术。

I think there's a number of different challenges that are going on here. The first is that some of the things that we have to do when we pursue our passion, they're not all that glamorous, and they're not all that passion evoking. When you're doing research, 99% of the time you spend by yourself looking at a computer screen, you don't really have breakthroughs every single day that that fill your cup. The same is true when you're an athlete. Like, it's great when you're out there on the pitch and you get to win a game or be in an amazing position, but often you're behind the scenes, you're weightlifting, you're stretching, you're honing in on how to make your game better.

要长期坚持这些是非常困难的。还有一个更大的挑战是，当你已经很久没有取得成功的结果时，当你觉得自己没有进步时，要继续下去真的很困难。当你试图追求你的激情，而世界上唯一的信号就是你在这方面并不成功，要维持你能做到的信念是很困难的，尤其是当你对此如此在意的时候。

That can be really difficult to maintain, particularly over longer timeframes. There's also a broader challenge when you haven't had a successful outcome in a while. It's really difficult to keep going when you don't feel like you're making a lot of progress. When you're trying to pursue your passion and the only sign that you see in the world is that you're being unsuccessful in doing that, it's difficult to maintain a belief that you are able to do it, particularly when you care so deeply about it.

扬讲述了企业家布鲁克·博亚尔斯基·普拉特的故事。她辞掉了一份安稳且收入丰厚的工作，创办了自己的公司。公司专注于减少对体重问题的污名化，这对她来说意义深远，因为她自己就曾亲身经历过这种污名。她对经营自己的公司充满热情，但也发现自己常常整夜不眠。

Jan tells the story of entrepreneur Brooke Boyarsky Pratt. She left a safe and lucrative job to start her own company. It focused on reducing stigma around weight issues, something that was deeply meaningful to her because she had experienced the stigma herself. She was fired up about running her own shop, but also found herself up at all hours of the night.

这对她来说真的很困难。她从每周工作四五十个小时变成了九十到一百个小时。值得一提的是，那时她刚刚生下第一个孩子。所以，她一边在扩大家庭，一边情绪上也非常有挑战。她不再只是处理某一组特定的任务。

It was really difficult for her. She went from working forty to fifty hours a week to working ninety, one hundred hour weeks. I should say that at the time, she had just given birth to her first child. So, she was expanding her family and was very emotionally challenging. She was no longer working on a particular narrow set of tasks.

她在组织里包揽一切。因为她是首席执行官兼联合创始人，所以每项任务都落在她身上。她在组建团队，她在筹集资金，她必须证明这种体重包容的方法是可行的。

She was doing everything in the organization. Every task fell to her because she was the CEO and co founder. She was building a team. She was raising money. She had to provide proof of concept that this weight inclusive stuff would work.

这让她感到非常奇怪，因为突然间她要对一切负责。她所做的不再只是她是否擅长这份工作，而是对她作为一个人的评判。她选择的这份职业现在成了她身份的反映。除此之外，还要追问：这里的进步是什么？成功长什么样？

And it was really weird for her because suddenly she was responsible for everything. Like, what she was doing was no longer whether she was good at her job, but it was a ruling on who she is as a person. This career that she had chosen was now a reflection of her identity. Add on top of that, what is progress here? What does success look like?

她一边推进工作，一边不断自问：我什么时候才会真正快乐？什么时候我才觉得自己真的产生了影响？我们很幸运，几个月前在课堂上讲过这个案例，我们邀请布鲁克来和学生做问答。一个学生问她：既然你已经辞职去追求激情，你现在更快乐了吗？

She's working on this, and the whole time she has to ask herself, When am I ever going to be happy? When is it really that I feel like I have made a difference? We're really fortunate. We taught this a few months ago in the classroom, and we invited Brooke to come in and do a Q and A with the students. One of our students asked her, So now that you've quit your job to pursue your passion, are you happier?

她站在那里想了一会儿，说：你知道吗，大多数时候感觉并不是那样。然后同一个学生追问：那你后悔这样做吗？她毫不犹豫地回答：绝不后悔。她答案很明确，她知道这对自己很重要。

She kind of stood there and she was thinking about this for a while, and she said, You know, most days it doesn't feel that way. And then the follow-up question from the same student was, So do you regret doing this? And she said, Absolutely not. She had a clear answer. She knew that it was important to her that she had done this.

这很具挑战性，因为她最终做的许多事情并不光鲜。情绪上的过山车、成功与失败、进步与停滞，这些都对她造成了巨大消耗。真的很艰难，就像所付出的工作量和努力一样。

It was challenging because many of the things she ended up working on weren't all that glamorous. The emotional roller coaster, the ups and downs of success and failure, progress, lack of progress took a major toll on her. And it was just really hard, like the the amount of work and effort that it took.

你在德国出生和长大，你父母是波兰人。我知道这些文化里有些词汇和概念正好能表达我们此刻讨论的这种张力，对吧，扬？

So you were born and raised in Germany. Your parents are Polish. I understand there are words and concepts in these cultures that speak to this tension that we're discussing here, Jan?

我们都知道德国人有最棒的词来形容一切。所以我认为有一个德语词应该被纳入英语词汇。我来推销一下：德语里“激情”叫Leidenschaft。语言学家会不同意，这是对该词非常自由的解读。

We all know that Germans have the best words for everything. So I think there's this German word that I think needs to be part of the English vocabulary. So here's my pitch. The German word for passion is leidenshaft. Linguists will disagree with me, and this is a very liberal interpretation of the word.

但Leidenschaft中的Leid源自“受苦”，schaft意为“能力”。因此，一个非常自由的翻译是：承受苦难的能力。这与我们对激情的理解大相径庭，也许能告诉你很多关于德国文化以及德国为何如此的原因。但这与美国式的激情观形成鲜明对比。

But the word leit from leidenshaft comes from suffering, and schaft comes from ability. And so a very liberal translation of the word leitenschaft is the ability to endure hardship. It's a very different way of thinking about passion. It maybe tells you a lot about German culture and why Germany is the way that it is. But it's in stark contrast to the American way of thinking about passion.

你知道，像“做你所爱，终身无需工作”这种观念，如果你追求激情，一切都会感觉神奇、轻松。暗示着如果它不容易，那就不是激情。所有研究都表明这极具误导性。德国式的理解——承受苦难的能力——我认为是一个重要对照，因为它捕捉到了我们常忽略的大部分真实体验。

You know, like, if you do what you love, you never have to work another day in your life. This idea that if you pursue your passion, it feels magical, it feels easy. And the implication being, if it doesn't feel easy, then it cannot be passion. All the research tells us that that's so misleading. The German way of thinking about it, the ability to endure hardship, I think it's an important counterpoint because I think it captures a large part of the experience that we often miss.

当你对某件事充满激情时，日常可能真的很艰难。日常可能让你沮丧、无聊，让你觉得必须忍受所有痛苦，但你还是去做。因为你相信它，相信即使要经历这些痛苦，它仍然值得。在波兰语里，有一个激情的翻译字面意思就是“受苦”。所以在波兰语里，连“奋斗”这层含义都没有。

When you're passionate about something, the day to day can be really challenging. The day to day can make you feel upset, can make you feel bored, it can make you feel like you have to go through all the pain, but you do it anyway. And you do it because you believe in it, you believe that there is worth in doing it despite the suffering that you have to go through. In Polish, there is one translation for passion that is called, literally means suffering. So in Polish, there isn't even any striving.

在波兰语里，你只能受苦。这源自更基督化的传统，即基督的受难，真的就是受苦。所以你受苦，不一定是因为你信仰它，而是你把受苦当成一种牺牲的形式。

In Polish, you just suffer. That comes from, more Christian traditions of the passion of Christ, of of of really just suffering. So you're you're suffering not necessarily just because you believe in it, but you're suffering as a form of sacrifice.

我们很多人相信，越是热爱自己所做的事，我们就会做得越好。换句话说，我们认为激情与表现之间存在线性关系。简，你研究过这个问题。激情与表现之间的联系真的像我们想象的那么直接吗？

So many of us believe that the more we love what we do, the better we are going to be at doing it. In other words, we believe there's a linear relationship between passion and performance. You studied this question, Jan. Is the connection between passion and performance as straightforward as many of us imagine?

既是也不是。我们收集了600多名员工的数据，问他们对工作的总体取向：是因为热爱而投身工作，还是因为职业或只是工作——也就是说，并非出于激情，但仍在生活中扮演重要角色。总体而言，那些把工作视为激情的人，工作表现更好。机制正如你所料：他们更投入，更愿意加班，因此平均表现更佳。

It is and it isn't. So we collected data from over 600 employees, and we asked them what generally their orientation was toward their work, whether work was something that generally they went into because they're passionate about it or whether work is something that they went into because for them it's a career or it's a job, meaning it's not something that they're passionate about, but it still fulfills an important role in their life. In addition to that, mutually speaking, people who view their work as a passion, they perform better at their job. And the mechanisms are exactly along the lines of what you might expect. They were more invested in their work, they were more willing to work longer hours, and that led them to perform better on average.

当你观察日常情况时，我们发现当人们比平常更有激情——特别兴奋时——实际表现反而更差。这意味着，当某天他们特别激动、对某事充满热情时，也会感到紧张和犹豫，内心矛盾，担心自己达不到极高的期望，这些担忧让他们偏离了良好表现。

When you look at what happens day to day, what we found was that when people were much more passionate than usual, so when they were feeling particularly fired up, they actually ended up performing worse. What that means is that when they were really, really passionate on any particular day, they were really excited about something, they were also kind of nervous and hesitant. They felt ambivalent. They were worried that they would be unable to live up to the really high expectations that they had. These worries started steering them away from performing well.

因此，我们的研究发现，激情过多确实存在。你可能对工作过于热情，这会带来挑战，并让你表现更糟。

So what we find in this work is that there is such a thing as too much passion. You can feel too passionate for your work, and that can be really challenging, and it can make you perform worse.

谈谈激情有时会越界变成不健康执念的观点。简，你和其他人研究过这个想法。

Talk about the idea that passions can sometimes cross the line into unhealthy obsessions. You and others have studied this idea, Jan.

是的，没错。鲍勃·瓦洛兰特首次提出激情可以是和谐或强迫的。他认为激情有两种：一种是我能一定程度上控制，能调节，能选择何时投入或停止思考；另一种是强迫性激情，它控制了我，让我无法停止投入，深夜还在纠结，睡不好，这会很痛苦。

Yeah, absolutely. So this notion of passion as being harmonious or obsessive was first introduced by Bob Valorant. His idea was that passions can come in one or two different ways, that passion can be something that I have some degree of control over, that I can regulate it to some extent, I can choose whether I engage in something I am passionate about. I can choose when to stop, stop engaging in it, stop thinking about it, or that my passion becomes obsessive, meaning that my passion ends up controlling me, such that I can't stop how much I'm engaging in something, that my passion just ends up carrying me places. You know, you're up late at night obsessing over what it is that you're passionate about, you're not getting enough sleep because of it, and that can be really difficult.

这里存在张力，简。你提到了那个美妙的德语词“Leidenshaft”，它在某种程度上是忍受艰难的能力，对吧？这就是激情——也许是长期忍受艰难的能力。

There's a tension here, Jan. You mentioned that beautiful German word, Leidenshaft, which is in some ways the ability to tolerate hardship. Right? That's what passion is. It's the ability to tolerate hardship perhaps over long periods of time.

你可以看到，这很容易无缝滑向有人说：我可以不睡觉、可以没有朋友、可以不休息、不度假，因为这就是我忍受艰难的能力。一方面，我们都知道没有大量时间和投入就无法成就任何事；但另一方面，这也可能无缝滑向极度不健康的状态。

And you can see how easily and seamlessly that can slip into someone saying, I can do without sleep. I can do without friends. I can do without taking a break or a vacation because it's my ability to tolerate hardship. On the one hand, we all know that you can't accomplish anything without being willing to put in, you know, a lot of time and effort. But there is a time when that can seamlessly slip over into something that is deeply unhealthy.

我同意。我认为挑战在于，坚持与执念之间的界限有时非常模糊。对吧？某些人眼中的惊人毅力，另一些人看来就是执念。对吧？

I agree. I think the challenge here is that the line between persevering and obsessing can be really blurry at times. Right? Like, what some people would describe as an amazing feat of perseverance, other people would call an obsessive person. Right?

比如，如果我长时间坚持做某件事，尽管全世界都告诉我我不该这么做，而我最终取得了成功，我们就会为此庆祝。看看这个人有多坚毅。所以我们总是在事后才变得更聪明，对吧？我觉得，挑战在于，在当下，我们自己，你必须随着时间学会如何校准并做出这些决定。

Like, if I work on something for a really long time despite the world telling me that I shouldn't be doing this and I end up being successful, we celebrate that. Look at the fortitude this person had. And so we always are smarter in hindsight. Right? Like, that's, I think, the challenge is that in the moment, we ourselves, you have to learn over time how to calibrate and make these decisions.

追求激情可能比我们最初想象的更复杂、更困难。发现我们热爱的事物只是第一步。保持热情并将激情与生活的其他部分平衡起来要困难得多。当我们回来时，会有更好的方式来参与和滋养我们的激情。您正在收听的是《隐脑》。

Pursuing a passion can be more complicated and more difficult than we initially imagined. Discovering what we love is only the first step. The task of keeping ardor alive and balancing our passions with the rest of our lives is much harder. When we come back, better ways to engage and feed our passions. You're listening to Hidden Brain.

我是尚卡尔·维丹塔。《隐脑》的支持来自Loom。最近在工作中感到有点卡壳？陷入太多无效的会议？陷入冗长的邮件往返？用Atlassian旗下Loom的视频消息功能，让你的团队摆脱困境。

I'm Shankar Vedanta. Support for Hidden Brain comes from Loom Feeling a little stuck at work lately? Stuck in too many unproductive meetings? Stuck in long back and forth emails? Get your team unstuck with video messaging from Loom by Atlassian.

使用Loom同时录制屏幕和你自己，分享快速更新、提供反馈、培训同事，以及介于其间的一切。此外，在会议中加入Loom AI，即可获得即时书面笔记和录音。无需视频制作或剪辑技能，就能制作出值得观看或反复观看的Loom视频。而且，是的，你可以以2倍速播放。使用Loom，你将拥有更多专注时间，会议也更高效。

Use Loom to simultaneously record both your screen and yourself to share a quick update, provide feedback, train a colleague, and everything in between. Plus, add Loom AI to your meetings for instant written notes and recordings. No video production or editing skills needed for a Loom that makes a great watch or rewatch. And yes, you can play at 2x speed. You'll have more focus time and better meetings with Loom.

用Loom视频通信，让你的流程、项目和团队摆脱困境。今天就试试Loom，网址是loom.com，即l00m.com。《隐脑》的支持也来自Wealthfront。当市场感觉不可预测时，为你的钱找到一个安全的地方可能很难。

Unstuck your process, projects, and teams with Loom Video Communication. Try Loom today at loom.com. That's l00m.com. Support for Hidden Brain comes from Wealthfront. When markets feel unpredictable, finding a safe place for your money can be hard.

Wealthfront的现金账户通过项目银行，为你的未投资现金提供4%的年收益率，无最低余额或账户费用。此外，你每天都可以免费即时提款到符合条件的账户，因此你的钱在你需要时始终可用。无论你的目标是什么，Wealthfront都能给你灵活性和安全性。现在，首次存入500美元开设现金账户，即可获得50美元奖金，网址是wealthfront.com/brain。奖金条款和条件适用。

Wealthfront's cash account offers 4% annual percentage yield on your uninvested cash through program banks with no minimum balance or account fees. Plus, you get free instant withdrawals to eligible accounts every day, so your money is always accessible when you need it. No matter your goals, Wealthfront gives you flexibility and security. Right now, open your first cash account with a $500 deposit and get a $50 bonus at wealthfront.com/brain. Bonus terms and conditions apply.

现金账户由Wealthfront经纪公司有限责任公司提供，FINRA/SIPC成员，非银行。截至2024年12月27日的存款APY为4%，仅供参考，可能变动，且无最低要求。资金将转入项目银行，赚取可变APY。这里是《隐脑》，我是尚卡尔·维丹塔。

Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC, member FINRA SIPC, not a bank. APY on deposits as of 12/27/2024 is representative, subject to change, and requires no minimum. Funds are swept to program banks where they earn the variable APY. This is Hidden Brain. I'm Shankar Vedanta.

大多数长期婚姻幸福的人会告诉你，他们的关系随着时间发生了巨大变化。仅仅因为你长时间爱着同一个人，并不意味着你爱的理由和恋情开始时一样。在哈佛商学院，行为科学家简·亚希莫维奇发现，职场中的激情也是如此。如果你想保持对所做事情的热情，你可能需要不断重塑你所做的事情。简，在你对充满激情的人的调查中，有一个故事让你印象深刻，一位对食物充满热情的厨师的故事。

Most people who have been successfully married for a long time will tell you that their relationships have changed dramatically over time. Just because you're in love with the same person for a long time doesn't mean your reasons to be in love are the same reasons you had at the start of the affair. At Harvard Business School, behavioral scientist Jan Yahimovich has found that passion in the workplace works the same way. If you want to remain passionate about what you do, you might need to keep reinventing what you do. Jan, in your survey of passionate people, one story stood out to you, the story of a chef who was deeply passionate about food.

给我讲讲那个故事，简。

Tell me that story, Jan.

所以我遇到了这位厨师，我问他热爱什么。这位厨师就是热爱烹饪。当他坐在我对面时，你能感受到他的激情是显而易见的。他描述了大约两年前他职业生涯中的一个阶段。他曾在纽约一家高端厨房工作，从所有外在指标来看，他已经取得了你能想象的所有成功。

So I met this chef, and I asked him what he's passionate about. And this chef just loved cooking. Like, you could feel his passion was palpable when he sat across from me. And he described this phase in his career that happened about two years ago. He had worked at a high end kitchen in New York, and for all external markers, had reached all of the success that you can imagine.

他的事业正在蒸蒸日上。作为一名热爱美食的厨师，他终于达到了自己梦寐以求的位置。但他却再也感受不到那份激情，他很难理解为什么会这样。他采取了一种比我采访过的其他人更激进的做法。他决定辞掉工作，离开一段时间。

He was advancing in his career. He was finally in a position where, as a chef who was passionate about food, like, that's where you wanna be. But he wasn't feeling that passion anymore, and he had a really hard time making sense of it. He took a more radical step than some of the other people that I talked to. He decided to quit his job and go away for a while.

于是他离开了纽约，前往中美洲和拉丁美洲旅行，旅途中发生了两件事。第一件事是他带上了相机，结果拍了很多照片。他意识到自己其实也很喜欢摄影。第二件事是，当他翻看自己拍的照片时，发现拍的都是人与人之间的联结，是人们与他人建立联系时的快乐瞬间。

So he left New York. He went traveling through Central And Latin America, and two things happened on the trip. The first thing is that he took his camera with him, and he ended up taking a lot of pictures. And he realized that he actually also loves taking pictures. The second thing is when he looked through the pictures that he was taking, what he was taking pictures of was of connection, like, of people, of moments of joy when they were connecting with other people.

他开始意识到，也许自己喜欢烹饪，或者最初选择成为厨师，是因为热衷于为人们制作食物，让人们可以一起分享，一起联结，在食物中看到自己，或者拥有某种回忆——一种味道、一种气味能唤起他们的记忆。于是他结束旅行回来，意识到高端餐厅的生活其实并不能让他追求自己的热情。那是热爱烹饪、热爱美食的人常走的路，但那条路并不会让他快乐。后来当我再次与他交谈时，他仍在一家不错的餐厅工作，但那家餐厅并不以卓越、设计或追求完美为目标，不像高端餐厅那样。那并不是那家餐厅的宗旨。

And so what he started realizing for himself was that maybe why he liked cooking or initially why he got into being a chef was because he was passionate about making food for people, for people to share, for people to connect over, for people to see themselves reflected in the food or, you know, have a have a moment where they feel like this is food that they used to eat or that's something that brings memories to mind for them, a smell, a taste. And so he ended up coming back from this trip and realizing this high end restaurant life didn't actually allow him to pursue his passion. That was the common path that people took who were passionate for cooking and passionate about food, but that wasn't the path that would make him happy. And instead, when I ended up talking to him, he was working at, you know, still a nice restaurant, but that restaurant wasn't focused with excellence, wasn't focused on design, didn't have the same push to perfection as the high end restaurants. Like, that wasn't the the purpose of that restaurant.

那并不是人们在那里工作的目的，也不是他被要求去做的事。相反，他工作的餐厅里，人们烹饪和工作，是因为他们想为人们提供一种可以围绕食物建立联结的体验。食物几乎成了配菜，而人才是主菜。然而，如果你去高端餐厅，一切都以食物为主，你的体验就是围绕那道菜。

That wasn't why people were doing what they were doing. That wasn't what he was pushed to do there. Instead, he worked at a restaurant where people cooked and were working because they wanted to provide people with an experience where they could connect over food. You know, the food was almost like the side dish, and the people were the main dish. Whereas, if you go to a high end restaurant, it's all about the food being the main dish and your experience of that food.

Jan，你会说这在工作场所追求激情方面普遍适用吗？也就是说，为了维持我们的激情，我们可能需要对自己所热爱的事物保持开放，愿意重新去定义它？

Would you say that this is generally true of the pursuit of passion in in workplace settings, Jan, which is that for us to maintain our passion, we might need to be open to reinventing what we are passionate about?

我认为这是我们最需要接受的常态。我们自己会变，周围的环境也会变。所以，如果我们追求激情的方式不变，久而久之就会出现错位，对吧？因为我们在变，环境也在变，我们也必须灵活调整自己的方式。

I think it's the most normal thing that we need to embrace. We ourselves change. The environment around us changes. And so if the way that we pursue our passion doesn't change, then over time there will be a mismatch, right? Because we are changing and the environment is changing, We too have to be flexible in our approach.

我们需要觉察到自己正在发生的变化，这包括我们追求激情的方式。

We need to be cognizant of the ways in which we are changing. And that includes how we pursue our passion.

所以我们之前谈到过，激情在我们心中与毅力紧密相连，是我们坚持面对困难挑战的能力。这似乎与我们必须对改变持开放态度、以保持激情的观点存在张力。你写到了一位名叫Elizabeth Rowe的女性。给我讲讲她的故事，以及这如何体现这种张力，Yan。

So we talked earlier about how passion is closely linked in our minds to perseverance, our ability to stick to difficult challenges. This seems to be in tension with the idea that we need to be open to changing what we do in order to remain passionate. You write about a woman named Elizabeth Rowe. Tell me her story and how this illustrates this tension, Yan.

确实。我认为这正是对自己所做的事保持热情的核心张力之一。你对某件事有坚定的信念，同时你又必须灵活地判断它是否仍然适合你，或者你是否已经发生了足够大的变化，从而需要做出更大的人生决定。Elizabeth Rowe曾是波士顿交响乐团的首席长笛手。

Absolutely. I think this is one of the core tensions of what it means to be passionate for what you do. You have a deep belief in something. At the same time, you have to be flexible in figuring out whether or not that still works for you or whether who you are has changed enough for you to warrant a bigger life decision change. So, Elizabeth Rowe was the principal flutist for the Boston Symphony Orchestra.

她在2000年代中期担任这一职位。需要强调的是，能在波士顿交响乐团做首席长笛手，那就相当于站在了行业的巅峰。那是业内最令人向往的职位之一。她真的处于事业的顶峰。如果你在追求自己的激情，如果你的激情就是成为长笛手，你看到Elizabeth Rowe，你会感叹，哇。

She came into this position in the mid two thousands. And just to highlight, to be a principal flutist at the Boston Symphony Orchestra, that is like being at the top of your game. That's one of the most coveted jobs in the industry. And, like, she was really at the top, at the tippy top of her career. If you're pursuing your passion, if your passion is being a flutist and you look at Elizabeth Rowe, you look at her and you say, wow.

这是一个真正做到了的人，她已经坚持了很多很多年。当时她大约48岁，这是一段四十多年对热情的追逐，最终让她在波士顿交响乐团获得了令人难以置信的领导职位。但在过去几年里，伊丽莎白开始感觉到，也许待在乐团并不是她人生想做的全部，也许还有另一个篇章她想探索。哪怕只是作为波士顿交响乐团的首席长笛手产生这种想法，都是前所未闻的。这些职位人们是不会辞职的。

This is a person who's done it, and she's done it for many, many years. At the time, she was about 48 years old. This has been a forty plus year pursuit of passion in the making, culminating in this incredible, leadership position at the Boston Symphony Orchestra. But in the last couple of years, Elizabeth started sensing that maybe being in an orchestra wasn't all that she wanted to do with her life, that maybe there was another chapter that she wanted to explore And to even have that thought as a principal flutist at the Boston Symphony Orchestra is unheard of. Like, these are positions that people don't quit.

这些职位在行业里可能每五年、每十年才出现一次。这不是人们通常会做的事。但她脑子里有了这个想法：如果我停止演奏音乐，我的人生还会做什么？

These positions are available maybe once every five, every ten years in the industry. This isn't something that people usually do. But she had that thought in her mind. What if I stopped playing music? What else would I be doing with my life?

我想活出哪些部分的自己？如果我不做音乐，我想做什么？起初她犹豫地开始尝试做教练。她一直很喜欢指导别人，从教学开始，帮助那些职业生涯早期、年轻的音乐家，解决他们的难题。她整个职业生涯都在做这件事，但现在她开始做得更多一些。

What are parts of me that I think I would like to live out? What are something that I want to be doing if I weren't be doing music? So hesitantly at first, she started experimenting on the side with coaching. She'd always enjoyed coaching, and she started with teaching, people who were early in their career, young musicians, and figuring out their challenges. And she'd done this her whole career, but now she started doing a little bit more of this.

新冠疫情来袭。于是伊丽莎白开始问自己：如果我当六个月教练会怎样？后来波士顿交响乐团复团了，她仍然有这个想法：如果我全职做这件事，而且不只是为年轻音乐家，而是为所有人做呢？

The COVID pandemic hit. So Elizabeth started asking herself, what if I became a coach for six months? Then the Boston Symphony Orchestra came back, and she still had this idea in her mind. What if I did this full time, and what if I didn't just do this for young musicians? What if I did this for people all over?

我觉得，我有很多技能。我在一个高压、高表现的职位上领导了二十多年，我学到了很多关于表演的意义，可以帮助别人，教他们怎么做。不只是音乐家，还有运动员，以及那些同样在某种程度上需要上台、需要交付、需要表现的人，我可以帮助他们做到这一点，也许这能肯定我的另一面。于是在2022年2月，她请了学术休假。

Like, I have a lot of skills. I've been leading a high performance, high stress position for more than twenty years now. I've learned a lot about what it means to perform that I could help people with, that I could teach people what to do. People who are not just musicians, but athletes, and people in leadership positions who are similarly in some way on stage and have to deliver and have to perform, and I could help them do this, and maybe that might affirm a different part of me. And so in 02/2022, she took a sabbatical.

她从波士顿交响乐团请了一年假，全身心投入成为一名领导力教练。在这一年的实验过程中，她发现这就是她余生想做的事：做音乐家很有趣，曾经让她充实，但已经走到尽头，是时候开启职业生涯的下一章了。2024年8月，波士顿交响乐团在坦格伍德举行大型户外演出时，她举行了最后一场音乐会。她站在舞台上作为乐团的一员演奏长笛，尽情沉浸其中——3000人为她鼓掌，而这是她最后一次再站在这样的舞台上。想想那种感觉。

She took a year off from the Boston Symphony Orchestra and jumped headfirst into becoming a leadership coach. And what she discovered throughout that year of experimenting is that this is what she wanted to do with the rest of her life, that being a musician was fun, it had fulfilled her, and it had run its course, and that it was time for the next chapter in her career. And in August 2024, while the Boston Symphony Orchestra was at Tanglewood, which is the big outdoor performance, she gave her very last concert. She was on there on the stage playing the flute as part of the orchestra, she soaked it all in, you know, the 3,000 people applauding her, and this was the last time that she would ever stand on a stage like this again. Like, just think about that.

这是她一生所知的全部，这曾是她的整个身份。但她提到一个对我影响很大的比喻：体操中的空中飞人。你知道当你荡着一根杠子时，那可能很有趣。

This is all that she has known her whole life. This has been her whole identity, and yet she talks about this metaphor that has since been really powerful to me. She talks about the trapeze instrument in gymnastics. You know when you're swinging and you're holding onto one bar? That can be fun.

但要继续前进，有一个时刻你必须松手，才能抓住下一根杠子。然而在放手与抓住之间，有一个瞬间你悬在空中，几乎失去控制，因为你在运动中，你希望抓住，但唯一能到达那里的方式就是松手，让自己进入那个状态。这需要巨大的勇气，放弃你极其擅长、已达到巅峰的东西，但对她来说，这是获得满足感所必需的。

But to proceed, there's a moment where you swing and you have to let go in order to hold onto the next one. But there's this moment between letting go of one thing and holding on to the other thing when you're in the air and you kind of don't really have a lot of control anymore because you're in motion, and you hope that you're going to catch it. But that's the only way to get there, is to let go and and and to let that in. It takes a huge amount of courage to do that, to let go of something that you are so good at, to be at the top of it, but for her is what was required in order to feel fulfilled.

你提到了“勇气”这个词，我想补充“沉没成本”的概念。你知道，她此时已经花了四十年准备和完善自己的职业生涯，完善吹长笛的能力。放弃这一切几乎像是背叛，就像你抛弃了自己的一部分。她一定也曾怀疑：我这样做对得起过去半辈子的自己吗？如果我明天、后天不喜欢这个新方向怎么办？

You mentioned the word courage, and I want to add the idea of sunk costs. You know, she had spent at this point forty years preparing and perfecting a career and perfecting her ability to play the flute. To walk away from that feels like almost like betrayal, like you're giving up a part of yourself. And she must have had doubts asking, you know, am I being true to the person I was for half my life? You know, to get up and do this other thing, what if I don't like it day after tomorrow?

她有很多疑虑。说她毫无怀疑地做了这件事会是误导。我认为，对我而言，勇气意味着：我认为自己做了正确的决定，尽管我并不完全确定它会如何发展。她已经无法回到波士顿交响乐团，那扇门已经关上了。

She had a lot of doubts. And to say that she did this without any doubt would be a misrepresentation. I think that what it means to me to have courage is to say, I think I've made the right decision, even though I'm not fully sure whether it's going to work out the way that it did. She can't go back to the Boston Symphony Orchestra. That door is closed.

对吧？这个行业根本不是这样运作的。但正因如此，这段实验期对她来说才格外宝贵。在她休假的一年里，她完全没有碰过长笛。她把乐器锁起来，装进盒子，塞进橱柜，她想弄清楚：我会怀念它吗？

Right? Like, that's just not how this industry works. But that's why this time period of experimentation was so helpful for her. When she was on sabbatical for a year, she didn't play the flute at all. She locked it up, put it in a box, stowed it away in a cupboard, and she wanted to realize, like, would this be something that I miss?

结果她意识到：我是一个完全有能力的人，即使不吹长笛，我依旧有价值。她之所以能完成这次转变，还在于她看清了一点：没错，我在乐器上投入了四十年的沉没成本，但同样我也积累了四十年的一套技能，这些技能完全可以用来干点别的。

And she realized, like, I'm a perfectly capable human being, and I am someone even when I am not a flute player. I have value. The other way that she was able to make this transition is to realize, yes, there's forty years of sunk cost of me having learned this instrument, but I've also invested for forty years on a particular set of skills that can be really helpful to do something else.

简，你曾指出，为了延续激情，我们有时得在工作中寻找自己真正在乎的部分。那些真正让我们振奋的东西，往往并不在正式岗位描述里。你母亲就是这样。被裁员后，她的人生出现了新的方向。发生了什么？

One of the things you've observed, Jan, is that sometimes in order to keep passion alive, we need to look for aspects of jobs that we care about. Sometimes the things that really lift us up are not in our literal job descriptions. This was the case for your own mother. Her life took a new direction when she found herself laid off. What happened?

我母亲做秘书，2008到2009年金融危机期间失业。她获得了再培训机会，于是学习了另一门职业，想靠新的软件技能找一份办公室工作，让自己对更多机构有吸引力。但她找不到工作，投出去的简历都没回音。那时她五十多岁。

My mother worked as a secretary, and during the financial crisis, lost her job in 2008 to 02/2009. She was offered retraining and so took retraining for another profession, trying to find another office job that required new software skills that would hopefully make her more appealing to a broader audience of different organizations. But she was unable to find a job. Everywhere where she applied, she wasn't taken. At that time, she was in her fifties.

她很想工作，长期找不到让她非常沮丧。经过一年多求职、再培训、仍无结果后，她记得有天去培训学校路上，经过一家养老院，听见厨房里工作的女人们在唱歌。她觉得奇怪：在厨房干活并不是多光鲜有趣的工作，她们却那么开心。

She really wanted to work, and she was getting really frustrated not having a job. And so after more than a year of trying to get another job, retraining, not getting another job, She recalls this moment when she was walking on the way to the retraining school where she was going, and she was walking past this retirement home, and she heard the women inside that were working in the kitchen singing. And to her mind, it was weird because she thought, Wait, they're working in the kitchen. That's not a particularly glamorous and fun job. They seem really happy over there.

她想知道发生了什么。第二天，她带着简历走进那家养老院，问有没有职位空缺：我想工作，我想看看这里的情况。于是她成了养老院清洁组的一员。

I wonder what's going on. And so the next day she took her CV and she went into the retirement home and she said, Do you have a job available? I would love to work. I'd love to see what this is like. And so she ended up taking a job as a member of the cleaning staff in this retirement home.

表面看，这似乎不是一份多有意义的工作，日常任务似乎带不来激情。然而，这却成了我母亲口中一生最有激情的工作，她一直干到几年前退休。当时她已在德国生活近三十年，对作为移民如何与官方打交道、如何融入这个既陌生又成了家的社会，积累了丰富经验。

And you would think on its surface, it's not necessarily a job that, you know, is very fulfilling. Like, what you do day to day, that's that doesn't bring you a lot of passion. This actually ended up being the job, what my mom would describe as, like, the most passionate job that she ever had, and she held onto it until she ended up retiring a few years ago. At the time when my mother took this job, she had been in the country, she'd been in Germany for almost thirty years. She had a lot of experience and expertise of what it's like to be an immigrant in Germany, how to deal with the authorities, how to figure out how to integrate into this society that at the same time was so foreign, but it also became a home for her.

养老院里很多员工是比她年轻的移民，来德国的时间比她晚得多。于是她成了顾问，教他们如何在这里生存、去哪些部门办事、如何理解文化冲突。她甚至每天开车送一位同事上班，因为对方害怕在德国开车——德国司机太猛。这份工作对她极其充实，也让我明白：有些岗位表面看任务就充满意义，能激发激情；

And a lot of the people that worked there were immigrants who were younger than her and who had come to the country a lot more recently than she had. And so she was able to take on a role of advising them about how to navigate this place, how to figure out which authorities to go to, how to make sense of cultural mismatches and clashes that were difficult to explain. She ended up driving one of her colleagues to work because this person was worried about driving in Germany because the drivers in Germany were so intense. She had a hard time figuring out how to drive on these streets, and it was such a fulfilling place for my mother. It really taught me there's jobs where the tasks that you get to do on its surface feel like they're very fulfilling and very meaningful and that what you do is very passion evoking.

也有些岗位像我母亲的清洁工作，从社会角度看，人们通常觉得不可能有激情，但这却是我母亲整个职业生涯中最让她充满激情的一份工作。

And then there's jobs like this one, where my mother was a member of the cleaning staff and ostensibly, you know, we would look at it from a societal perspective and say, surely people aren't passionate in this job, but this was the job that my mom was the most passionate about in her whole career.

听说你重读那本年轻时深深激励过你的书时，有了惊人的新发现。那本《山外有山》写的是保罗·法默。这次重读，你注意到他生活中的哪些新细节，简？

I understand that you had a startling moment of reevaluation when you went back and reread that book that had so inspired you as a young man. This is Mountains Beyond Mountains about Paul Farmer. When you went back and read the book, what did you notice about Paul Farmer's life this time around, Jan?

当我更年轻第一次读这本书时，我只关注他在做什么、他带来的改变、他完成的所有惊人成就。我没注意到他没描述的那些事，或者他没做的事。比如，保罗·法默虽然成就斐然，他并不快乐。你知道，他从未坐下来感叹“看我完成了多少了不起的事”。我改变了我们看待公共卫生的方式，尤其在低收入国家，改变了我们看待结核病护理的方式。

When I was younger and I read it for the first time, I was so focused on what he was doing, the difference that he was making, all the amazing things that he was accomplishing. I wasn't paying attention to all the things that he wasn't describing or all the things that he wasn't doing. Like, Paul Farmer, for all the amazing accomplishments that he has had, he wasn't happy. You know, it wasn't like he would ever sit back and say, look at all the amazing things I have accomplished. I've changed the way that we think about public health, particularly in low income countries, changed the way that we think about tuberculosis care.

你能看到他的组织和工作带来的巨大影响。然而，在特雷西·基德写的这本书里，无论法默做了什么，他始终相信“我还能做得更多”。我总是、永远不满足，因为我始终达不到自己的期望。如今我也做了这行一段时间，和很多人聊过，我渐渐把这内化了。当你追求热爱的事物时，我想这就是其中的一部分。

Like, so many things where you see the impact that his organization and his work have had. Instead, like, what you see in in this book, that Tracy Kitter wrote is that no matter what Farmer ended up doing, there was always this belief that he had, there's always more than I can do. Like, I'm I'm always and perpetually dissatisfied because I'm always falling short of the aspiration that I have. And it it's something that I think I I've internalized now that I've been doing this for for a little bit, and I've seen this in a lot of people that I've spoken with. When you pursue what you're passionate about, I think that's just part of what it means.

我不认为我个人能解决这个问题。我越来越明白，也许正是“不解决”才让激情持续。因为没解决，你就得不断找新办法、新途径去攻克，不断尝试弄明白；但最终你得接受，也许你永远解决不了，你的一部分将永远不快乐、不满足。

And I don't think this is something that I personally will ever be able to resolve. And more and more, I've come to understand that perhaps not resolving it is what keeps the passion alive. Because by not resolving it, you have to continue finding new solutions, new ways of tackling it, new ways that you're trying to figure it out. But, ultimately, you have to find comfort in the fact that maybe you will never be able to resolve it, and part of you is always going to be unhappy and dissatisfied.

扬·亚希莫维奇是哈佛商学院的行为科学家。扬，非常感谢你今天作客《隐脑》。

Jan Yahimovich is a behavioral scientist at Harvard Business School. Jan, thank you so much for joining me today on Hidden Brain.

谢谢你邀请我，尚卡尔。

Thank you for having me, Shankar.

如果你在工作中感到倦怠或提不起劲，扬有一套问题建议你自问。在我们专为 Hidden Brain Plus 制作的配套故事里，扬会分享这些问题，并解释“我们关心什么”与“我们热爱什么”之间微妙却关键的区别。事实证明，其中一个更能预测长期激情。如果你是订阅者，这期节目现已上线，标题是《如何摆脱倦怠感》。

If you're feeling burned out or lackluster at work, Jan has a set of questions he suggests you should ask yourself. In our companion story exclusively on Hidden Brain Plus, Jan shares those questions with you and also explains the subtle but crucial distinction between asking what we care about and asking what we love. Turns out, one of them is a much better predictor of long term passion. If you are a subscriber, that episode is available right now. It's titled How to Stop Feeling Burned Out.

如果你还不是订阅者，请访问 support.hiddenbrain.org。若使用苹果设备，可前往 apple.co/hiddenbrain。《隐脑》由 Hidden Brain Media 制作。我们的音频制作团队包括安妮·墨菲·保罗、克里斯滕·王、劳拉·奎拉尔、瑞安·卡茨、奥顿·巴恩斯、安德鲁·查德威克和尼克·伍德比。塔拉·博伊尔是我们的执行制片人。

If you are not yet subscribed, please go to support.hiddenbrain.org. If you are using an Apple device, you can go to apple.co/hiddenbrain. Hidden Brain is produced by Hidden Brain Media. Our audio production team includes Annie Murphy Paul, Kristen Wong, Laura Quirrell, Ryan Katz, Autumn Barnes, Andrew Chadwick, and Nick Woodbury. Tara Boyle is our executive producer.

我是《隐脑》的执行主编。你对扬·亚希莫维奇关于识别并追随激情的问题还有后续吗？如果你愿意与《隐脑》听众分享，请在手机上录一段语音备忘并发送至 ideashiddenbrain.org，邮件主题写“passion”。邮箱地址再说一遍：ideashiddenbrain.org。

I'm Hidden Brain's executive editor. Do you have follow-up questions for Jan Yahimovich about identifying and following your passions? If you'd be comfortable sharing your question with the Hidden Brain audience, please record a voice memo on your phone and email it to us at ideashiddenbrain dot org. Use the subject line passion. That email address again is ideashiddenbrain dot org.

最后，《隐脑》今年满 10 岁。为庆祝，我将穿越全国举办一系列现场演出，分享节目前十年的七条关键洞见。想看我是否去到你附近的城市，请访问 hiddenbrain.org/tour。我是尚卡尔·韦丹塔姆。

Finally, Hidden Brain is turning 10 this year. And to celebrate, I'm crisscrossing the country for a series of live shows. I'll share seven key insights from the first decade of the show. To see if I'm coming to a city near you, please visit hiddenbrain.org/tour. I'm Shankar Vedantham.

回头见。《隐脑》的支持来自 Vitamix。你有没有发现，选择越多，我们反而越不满足？心理学家称之为“选择的悖论”。在今天这个世界，我们面对无尽选项与无限噪音。

See you soon. Support for Hidden Brain comes from Vitamix. Ever notice the more options we have, the less satisfied we feel? Psychologists call this the paradox of choice. In today's world, we are faced with endless options and infinite noise.

重要的是要直击真正核心的东西。Vitamix料理机

It's important to cut through to what's truly essential. Vitamix blenders

是

are

那种稀有的必需品，专为提供持久性能与强大多功能性而设计，让你有目的地创造。访问vitamix.com，选购你需要的料理机。

that rare essential engineered to deliver lasting performance and powerful versatility so you can create with purpose. Visit vitamix.com for the blender you need.

嗨，我是Katie Nolan，播客《Casuals》的主持人，这档体育节目不在乎你对体育了解多少，我们很高兴你来了。每周，我都会和几位好友一起聊体育和娱乐圈的大新闻，但方式轻松有趣，绝不无聊。想知道Sue Bird最爱的Diana Terrazzi故事、拉里·奥布莱恩奖杯有多重，或者根据你的月亮星座哪支棒球队最适合你？

Hey there. It's Katie Nolan, host of casuals, the sports podcast where we don't care how much you know about sports. We're just happy that you're here. Every week, I hang out with some of my good friends to discuss the biggest stories across sports and entertainment, but in a way that's, like, fun and not boring. Wanna know Sue Bird's favorite Diana Terrazzi story or how heavy the Larry O'Brien trophy is or even what baseball team is right for you based on your moon sign.

我们都有。每周二和周四在SiriusXM应用或任何播客平台收听《Casuals》。再见。

We got you. Listen to Casuals every Tuesday and Thursday on the SiriusXM app or wherever you get your podcasts. Bye.

想象一下，经营业务要靠十几款互不相连的软件，每一款都比上一款更贵更复杂。压力山大。现在想象一下Odoo。Odoo拥有你所需的所有程序，且全部集成在一个平台上。

Imagine relying on a dozen different software programs to run your business, none of which are connected. And each one more expensive and more complicated than the last. It can be pretty stressful. Now imagine Odoo. Odoo has all the programs you'll ever need and are all connected on one platform.

Odoo听起来很棒吧？让Odoo用简单高效的软件为你的业务带来和谐，一站式搞定所有事务，价格却只是零头。今天就到odoo.com注册。odoo.com。

Doesn't Odoo sound amazing? Let Odoo harmonize your business with simple, efficient software that can handle everything for a fraction of the price. Sign up today at odoo.com. That's odoo.com.

对你来说，可能性意味着什么？

What does possibility mean to you?

这是个难题。

That's a hard question.

是你能为之努力的东西。

Something that you can strive for.

如果我能做到任何我下定决心要做的事。你对自己有信心，你相信自己。你能实现这些事情。

If I'm able to do anything I set my mind to. You're confident in yourself and you believe in yourself. Stuff that you could achieve.

当你更有信心时，我觉得一切皆有可能，这让我感到兴奋。

I feel excited at evening is possible when you're more confident.

鞋子在这方面起着巨大的作用。它们是我风格中最重要的部分。

Shoes are a huge part of that. They are the most important part of my style.

你可以，比如，

You can, like,

一切皆有可能。DSW 数不清的鞋子，值得炫耀的价格。想象无限可能！

Anything is possible. DSW Countless Shoes at Bragworthy Prices. Imagine the possibilities!