HoP 002 - 无限与超越 - 阿那克西曼德与阿那克西美尼

大家好，我是彼得·亚当森，欢迎收听由伦敦国王学院和利弗休姆信托基金支持的《哲学史》播客。

Hi, I'm Peter Adamson, and you're listening to the History of Philosophy podcast brought to you with the support of King's College London and the Leverhulme Trust.

今天这一期，我们来聊聊‘无限与超越’：阿那克西曼德和阿那克西美尼的哲学。

Today's episode, Infinity and Beyond, The Philosophy of Anaximander and Anaximenes.

在第一期节目中，我们介绍了最早的前苏格拉底哲学家——米利都的泰勒斯。

In our first episode, we had a look at the very first Pre Socratic philosopher, Thales of Miletus.

本期我会讲另外两位来自米利都的哲学家：阿那克西曼德和阿那克西美尼。

This episode, I'll be talking about two more philosophers from the city of Anaximander and Anaximenes.

我们对他们的了解比对泰勒斯多一点，但别抱太高期望。

We know a bit more about them than we do about Thales, but don't get your hopes up too high.

关于他们的史料其实非常有限。

Our evidence about them is pretty thin.

上一期我提到，这些最早的希腊哲学家的思想能流传至今，实在令人惊叹。

I mentioned last time how amazing it is that information about these earliest Greek philosophers has reached us at all.

也许我们值得再多花一点时间，好好想想这一点。

Maybe it's worth dwelling on this just a bit longer.

我上次说过，这些人生活在公元前六世纪。

As I said last time, these guys lived in the sixth century BC.

为了让你更清楚地感受那是多么久远的事，我们来想想另一个人——查理曼大帝，那位建立了神圣罗马帝国的征服者。

To give you some idea how long ago that is, let's take someone else who lived a long time ago: Charlemagne, the conqueror who founded the Holy Roman Empire.

他出生于公元八世纪中期，属于中世纪早期，但即便如此，他离我们的时间，反而比离泰勒斯的年代更近。

He was born in the mid-eight century AD, which is early in the medieval period, but that still puts him slightly closer to us in time than to the birth date of Thales.

我想表达的是，这些事真的、真的非常古老。

What I'm trying to say here is, this stuff is really, really old.

就连亚里士多德这样的古代哲学家，也觉得泰勒斯和他的直接继承者们太过久远，很难了解清楚。

Even for ancient philosophers like Aristotle, Thales and his immediate successors were far enough in the past that it was hard to know much about them.

所以我们真该惊叹，距离亚里士多德已经两千多年了，我们居然还能知道这些最早希腊哲学家的事。

So we should really marvel that we, more than two millennia after Aristotle, know anything about the earliest Greek philosophers at all.

即使亚里士多德对前苏格拉底哲学家们的了解未必充分，他仍然是我们了解他们最重要的信息来源之一。

Even if Aristotle wasn't necessarily all that well informed about the first Pre Socratics, he's still one of our most important sources of information about them.

另一个主要来源是亚里士多德的学生泰奥弗拉斯托斯，他专门搜集并解读了直到他那个时代为止的哲学史片段。

The other main source is Aristotle's student Theophrastus, who made it his business to collect and interpret bits of information about the history of philosophy up until his time.

这种事正是亚里士多德和他的追随者们特别喜欢做的。

This is the sort of thing Aristotle and his followers loved to do.

他们特别热衷于收集资料，不管是解剖贝类，还是试图拼凑阿那克西曼德的思想，都干得特别起劲。

They were great collectors of information, and threw themselves into it pretty zealously, whether they were dissecting shellfish or trying to piece together the ideas of someone like Anaximander.

但不幸的是，这里头有几个坑等着我们。

But unfortunately, there are a couple of pitfalls for us here.

首先，泰奥弗拉斯托斯关于前苏格拉底哲学家的讨论，大部分都已经失传了。

First, Theophrastus' discussion of the Pre Socratics are themselves mostly lost.

所以我们通常只能依赖更晚一些的希腊作者，听他们转述泰奥弗拉斯托斯的说法。

So, we're usually dependent on yet later Greek authors who are telling us their version of what Theophrastus said.

其次，泰奥弗拉斯托斯在描述时，常常用自己的概念和术语来表达。

Second, what Theophrastus said was often put in terms of their own ideas and vocabulary.

就像我上次说的，要把古代人对前苏格拉底思想的解读，和那些思想本身区分开来，真的挺难的。

Like I said last time, it can be hard to disentangle ancient interpretations of Pre Socratic ideas from those ideas themselves.

再加上那些转述泰奥弗拉斯托斯资料的作者又添了一层理解和扭曲，想要还原前苏格拉底哲学的原貌，简直难上加难。

When you add the further layer of interpretation and distortion introduced by the authors who are repackaging Theophrastus' information, the task of reconstructing Pre Socratic thought begins to look pretty daunting.

尽管如此，正如我所说，我们对阿那克西曼德和阿那克西美尼的了解，比对泰勒斯的还要多。

Despite all this, as I say, we do know more about Anaximander and Anaximenes than we do about Thales.

他们俩都住在米利都，和泰勒斯是同一个城邦，很可能彼此熟识。

They both lived in Miletus, the same town as Thales, and they presumably associated with one another.

传统说法认为，阿那克西曼德其实是泰勒斯的学生，而阿那克西美尼则是阿那克西曼德的学生。

The tradition claims that Anaximander was actually Thales' student, and Anaximenes was then Anaximander's student.

但这些说法不用太当真，因为古代作者特别喜欢编造师徒传承的谱系，不管是不是真有这回事。

But we don't need to take this too seriously, because ancient authors loved to construct chains of teacher student relationships, whether they existed or not.

你真正需要记住的，只要别把名字搞混了，就是阿那克西曼德比泰勒斯年轻一点，阿那克西美尼则是再下一代。

All you really need to know, if you can keep the name straight, is that Anaximander was just a bit younger than Thales, and that Anaximenes was the generation after that.

那我们先来聊聊阿那克西曼德。

So, let's tackle Anaximander first.

和泰勒斯一样，他在自然科学方面也有不少专长。

Like Thales, he could claim some expertise in physical science.

据说他曾在一个叫斯巴达的地方，竖起了一种类似日晷的装置。

He's credited with setting up a device like a sundial in Sparta back in Mainland Greece.

别忘了，米利都位于如今土耳其的西海岸，他能从那里远行到斯巴达，这本身就非同寻常。

Remember that Miletus is on the Western Coast of what is nowadays Turkey, so it's notable that he would have traveled from there as far as Sparta.

他另一项科学成就是绘制了一张地图，据记载，地图上展现了大地和海洋。

Another scientific achievement was his production of a map which showed, we are told, both the Earth and the sea.

对于来自米利都的人来说，做这种事再合适不过了——我上回说过，米利都是个充满活力的经济中心，贸易网络遍及整个地中海，甚至延伸到黑海地区。

This would have been an appropriate activity for someone from Miletus, which, as I said last time, was a vibrant economic center with trading connections all over the Mediterranean and up into the Black Sea area.

阿那克西曼德最出名的观点是，万物的本源是他所说的‘无限’。

Anaximander is best known for saying that the principle of all things is what he called the infinite.

这里的希腊语是‘阿派朗’，字面意思就是‘无界限的东西’。

The Greek word here is aperon, which means literally that which has no limit.

英文里有好几种译法，比如‘无限’、‘无边’、‘无限制’，或者‘不确定’，都曾被用过。

Several different English words have been used to translate this, not only infinite, but also boundless, unlimited, or indefinite.

这些不同的译法各自突出了不同的含义，而这些含义其实都贴合阿那克西曼德所说的本源。

These different translations bring out different connotations, which really do apply to Anaximander's principle.

他确实认为，这个‘阿派朗’是无限大的，也就是说，它在空间中无边无际地延伸，包裹着我们所处的整个宇宙。

He did apparently think that the aperon was infinitely big, in other words, that it stretched out in space indefinitely far, and surrounds the cosmos in which we live.

我们还知道，他认为这个‘无限’是永恒的，既在空间上无边无际，在时间上也永不停歇。

And we also know that he thought it was eternal, so infinite in time as well as space.

另一方面，泰奥弗拉斯托斯认为，有必要通过泰勒斯来对比阿那克西曼德：泰勒斯说万物本源是水，而阿那克西曼德的本源却什么也不是，换句话说，它是无定形的，没有固定的性质。

On the other hand, Theophrastus thought it was important to contrast Anaximander through Thales by saying that whereas Thales' principle was water, Anaximander's principle was nothing in particular, it was, in other words, indefinite, having no one nature.

相反，阿那克西曼德说，像空气或火这样具有明确性质的东西，都是从‘无限’中分离出来的。

Rather, Anaximander said, things with definite nature, like air or fire, were, as he put it, separated out from the aperon.

这带我们来到了一个非常重要的时刻——我们可以引用现存最早的前苏格拉底哲学残篇了。

This takes us to a rather exciting moment, which is the opportunity to quote the first substantial surviving fragment from Pre Socratic philosophy.

这段话由泰奥弗拉斯托斯记录，后来被公元六世纪的亚里士多德注释者辛普利修斯保存了下来。

It was reported by Theophrastus and then preserved by Simplicius, who was a sixth century AD commentator on Aristotle.

准备好了吗？

Ready?

原文是这样的：万物由此产生，亦由此消亡，皆因必然性；它们彼此偿还不义的代价，依照时间的秩序。

Here it is: Things come to be and are destroyed, Anaximander said, according to necessity, for they mete out penalty and retribution to one another for injustice according to the ordering of time.

辛普利修斯在引用这段话后补充说，阿那克西曼德虽然用的是散文而非诗歌，但表达得却颇具诗意。

After citing this, Simplicius adds that Anaximander was expressing himself rather poetically, even though he did write in prose and not verse.

这段残片内容不多，而且就连它到底怎么跟所谓的‘无限’或‘不定’原理相关，我们都不能确定。

The fragment isn't a lot to work with, and in fact, it's not even certain how it is supposed to relate to the principle called the infinite or indefinite.

但如果我们接受‘分离’这个概念，学者们普遍认为，从‘无限’中分离出来的不同元素彼此生成又彼此毁灭，长期来看，这个过程会达到平衡，从而实现阿那克西曼德所说的‘正义’。

But taking up the idea of separating off, what interpreters tend to think is that the different substances separated out of the aperon generate and destroy each other, and that over the long haul this process balances out so as to restore what Anaximander calls justice.

‘时间的秩序’这个说法可能暗示，这一切是按照某种循环发生的——这在早期希腊思想中很常见，赫西俄德的作品里也有类似观点。

The idea about the ordering of time might suggest that this all happens according to some kind of cycle, which is a popular idea in early Greek thought and found also in Hesiod.

我们可以通过进一步考察阿那克西曼德的其他观点来让这个想法更具体些，而这些材料最终都来自提奥弗拉斯托斯。

We can make this a bit more concrete by looking at further evidence about Anaximander, which again comes ultimately from Theophrastus.

这些材料涉及阿那克西曼德对周围世界如何形成的看法，特别是天空和天体是怎么产生的。

This evidence bears on the way Anaximander thought the world around us was formed, and in particular how the sky and heavenly bodies come about.

他说，经过一个如今已相当模糊的过程，一团火焰在环绕地球的空气周围形成了。

He said that, through a process which is unfortunately rather obscure, a ball of fire came to exist around the air surrounding the earth.

阿那克西曼德说，这团火焰环绕着空气，就像树皮包裹着树干一样。

This ball of fire surrounded the air, Anaximander said, like bark surrounding a tree.

随后，这火焰裂开成环状或圆圈，每个环又被某种空气或雾气包裹着。

The flame then burst apart into rings or circles, which were again enveloped in some kind of air or mist.

雾中的圆形孔洞让我们能隐约看到火环，但只能看到一部分，这些若隐若现的火光就是天体。

Round holes in the mist allow us to see the circles of fire, but only partially, and these circular glimpses of the fire are the heavenly bodies.

月亮的盈亏，是因为雾中的孔洞在开合变化。

The moon waxes and wanes because the holes in the mist are opening and closing.

我觉得，你肯定会觉得这套说法相当精彩。

Now this, I think you'll agree, is all pretty cool.

要真想讲清楚，我得有个更大的特效预算，但这跟之前说的‘无限’、万物分离、彼此补偿这些事，到底有什么关系呢？

To convey it properly, I'd need a bigger special effects budget, but how does it relate to the business about the infinite and things being separated, paying retribution to one another, and all that?

我刚才描述的这个说法，开头就提到，在阿那克西曼德的体系里，某种东西从永恒中分离出了冷与热。

Well, the report I've just been describing starts by saying that in Anaximander's scheme, something separates hot and cold out from the eternal.

这个‘永恒’，大概就是他所说的最初本原——阿派朗。

The eternal is presumably his first principle, the aperon.

冷的部分应该是空气或雾气，而热的部分，显然就是火。

The cold part is probably the air or mist, and the hot part is obviously going to be the fire.

注意它们是怎么相互作用的：雾气先是被火紧紧包裹，就像树皮包着树干，随后又在天上笼罩着火环。

Notice how they then interact with each other, the mist first being hugged tight by the fire like the bark of a tree, and then shrouding the rings of flame out in the heavens.

这一切都表明，阿那克西曼德对自然界中那些对立的力量非常着迷。

All of this suggests that Anaximander was fascinated by the opposed forces we see in nature around us.

这些相互制衡的力量——比如雾与火，具有截然相反的特性——正是彼此偿还报应的根源。

These countervailing forces, which are things like mist and flame, with opposing characteristics, are what pay retribution to one another.

无限是无定形的，它本身没有可以对立的属性，但它却是所有对立现象的源头。

The infinite is indefinite it has no characteristics that could be opposed but it is somehow the source of what enters into opposition.

由于无限意味着取之不尽，这种相互对立的过程永远不会停止。

And because it is infinite, in the sense of being inexhaustible, the process of mutual opposition will never cease.

这种在统一背景之下持续动态对抗的主题，是前苏格拉底哲学中最持久的核心思想之一。

This theme of constant and dynamic opposition, which takes place against the background of an underlying unity, is one of the most enduring features of Pre Socratic philosophy.

我们后来会在赫拉克利特那里看到最鲜明的体现，但同样想法也会出现在恩培多克勒和阿那克西曼德身上。

We'll find it most strikingly later on in Heraclitus, but the same idea will appear too in Empedocles and Anaxagoras.

就连亚里士多德也试图用对立与统一来解释自然。

Even Aristotle will try to explain nature in terms of opposition and unity.

前苏格拉底哲学的另一个典型特征，就是试图用基本构成要素和力量来解释宏大而复杂的现象。

Also typically Pre Socratic is the attempt to explain something huge and complicated by invoking fundamental constituents and forces.

实际上，这个理论的野心可能还不止于此。

Actually, the ambitions of the theory may go even further.

有些证据表明，阿那克西曼德想的不止是我们这个宇宙。

Some evidence suggests that Anaximander had in mind more than just our cosmos.

厄拉多塞告诉我们，在阿那克西曼德的理论中，从无限中分离出来的不只是空气和火这样的元素，还有完整的宇宙世界。

The Ephrastus tells us that in Anaximander's theory, it wasn't just stuffs like air and fire that are separated out from the infinite, but also whole worlds.

如果这种说法不是完全误导的话——有些人确实这么认为——那它可能意味着无数个像我们这样的世界散布在无限之中，或者意味着我们的宇宙经历着永无止境的循环，一个接一个。

If this is not entirely misleading, and some think it is, then this could mean either an infinite number of worlds like our own, scattered out through the infinity, or it could mean an unending series of cycles for our own cosmos, one after the other.

这两种观点都会与后来的前苏格拉底思想产生共鸣。

Both ideas would, again, have resonances with later Pre Socratic thought.

有记载提到，阿那克西曼德认为我们的世界正在逐渐变干，海洋因阳光加热而慢慢退去，水分转化为风。

The notion that at least our own cosmos does operate in cycles is supported by a bit of testimony which says that Anaximander believed our world is drying out, the seas gradually retreating as the sun heats them and turns the moisture into wind.

也许他的意思是，我们现在所处的阶段，是热量正逐步压倒寒冷与湿润的时期，这可以说是公元前六世纪版的全球变暖。

Maybe the idea here is that we live within a part of the cosmic cycle where heat is gradually overwhelming what is cold and moist, a sixth century BC version of global warming.

过去更湿润的说法，也契合另一条零散的记载，它保留了阿那克西曼德除‘无限’原则外最令人难忘的观点。

The idea that things were wetter in the distant past would go well with another scrap of information, which preserves what is probably Anaximander's most memorable idea, apart from the infinite principle.

他声称，最早的动物是在湿气中孕育，然后像从树皮中破壳而出一样挣脱出来。

He claimed that the first animals were gestated inside moisture, and then broke out of it as if through the bark of a tree.

他似乎特别偏爱用树皮作比喻，这点很明显。

He seems to have had a thing about bark, one can't help noticing.

他还提出，人最初不可能像现在这样，因为第一代孩子太脆弱，根本活不下来。

He also suggested that man couldn't originally have been the way he is now, since the first generation of children would not have survived, way too helpless.

相反，他们是在鱼体内形成，等长成成体后直接从鱼体内破体而出。

Rather, they were formed inside of fish and full grown adults burst out of them.

这不该被看作某种原始的进化理论，因为这里根本没有‘鱼经过多代逐渐变得更像人’的意思。

This shouldn't be taken as some kind of proto theory of evolution, because there's no idea here that fish gradually become more and more human over many generations.

更准确地说，这更像是在试图拓展泰勒斯‘万物源于水或湿气’的观点——恕我用个双关语。

Rather, it looks more like an attempt to take the idea of Thales that all things come from water or moisture and flesh it out, if you'll pardon the pun.

但总体来看，阿那克西曼德的思路比泰勒斯更抽象。

But overall, it looks like Anaximander had a more abstract approach than Thales did.

他的‘无限’是一种概念上的飞跃，似乎源于纯粹的推理，而非经验观察。

His infinite is a conceptual leap, and seems to be derived from pure argument rather than empirical observation.

有人认为，他在解释地球为何静止不动时，展现了一种极为深刻的哲学思路。

Some have seen another impressively philosophical approach in his explanation of why the earth stays where it does.

他认为地球像个矮胖的圆柱体，像鼓一样，而我们生活在它的平坦顶部。

He thought the earth is like a squat cylinder, shaped like a drum, and we live on the flat upper surface.

亚里士多德提到，阿那克西曼德曾思考过，为什么这个圆柱形的地球不会移动。

Aristotle tells us that Anaximander then wondered why this cylindrical Earth doesn't move around.

他得出的结论是，地球正好位于宇宙的中心，所以朝任何方向运动都没有理由比其他方向更合适。

The reason he decided is that the Earth is right in the middle of the cosmos, so no direction would be a more appropriate way for it to move than any other.

这很有趣，因为它表明阿那克西曼德坚持认为，如果地球要动，就必须有充分的理由。

This is interesting because it shows Anaximander demanding that there be a good reason for the Earth to move in a particular direction, if it is going to move.

仅仅因为所有可能的方向都一样，就足以让地球保持静止。

The mere equivalence of all the directions it could move is enough to keep it in place.

我们本以为这种思路会继续深化，变得更加抽象和概念化。

We might have expected things to develop further in this way, getting more abstract and more conceptual.

确实，等我们几周后讲到赫拉克利特时，就会看到这样的发展。

Indeed, they will when we get to Heraclitus in a few weeks.

不过，我们接下来要讲的这位思想家是阿那克西美尼，他的思路似乎走向了另一个方向。

However, the very next thinker on our itinerary is Anaximenes, who seems to go in the other direction.

他同意阿那克西曼德的观点，认为万物的本源是无限的，但他更进一步，直接把本源定为一种具体物质——不是水，而是空气。

He agreed with Anaximander that the principle of everything is infinite, but he was happy to go ahead and identify it with a particular substance, not water this time, but air.

但若以为阿那克西美尼只是无视了前人，退回到泰勒斯那样的观点，那就错了。

It would, however, be wrong to think that Anaximenes was just ignoring his similarly named predecessor and retrenching to a view like that of Thales.

他的哲学实际上至少在一个关键点上继承并发展了阿那克西曼德的思想：他解释了构成宇宙的各种物质是如何相互转化的。

His philosophy actually builds on Anaximander's in at least one important way, by explaining how the different stuffs that make up the cosmos are generated one out of another.

他说，如果你从空气出发，可以通过让它变浓或变稀来改变它。

If you start with air, Anaximenes said, you can change it by making it thicker or thinner.

当空气变得稀薄时，

When it gets thinner, more diffuse.

它会变热，最终变成火。

It gets hotter and becomes fire.

而当空气变浓时，它会变冷，依次变成风、云、水，最后是土和岩石。

But when it gets thicker, it gets colder and becomes wind, then cloud, then water, and finally earth and rocks.

那他为什么选空气，而不是最轻的火呢？

Now, why does he start with air and not fire, the thinnest stuff?

或者反过来，为什么不选最重的石头呢？

Or for that matter, rocks, the densest stuff?

我猜有三个原因。

Three reasons, I'd guess.

首先，史料显示，阿那克西美尼对空气的流动性印象深刻。

First, the sources suggest that Anaximenes was impressed by the fluidity of air.

所以，他可能选空气作为本原，是想强调自然界的动态变化，就像阿那克西曼德强调对立力量的不断互动一样。

So perhaps he selected air as his principle because he wanted to emphasize the dynamism of the natural world, like Anaximander with his constantly opposed forces.

其次，这一点和前面相关：和阿那克西曼德的‘无限’一样，阿那克西美尼的空气也是万物从中分离出来的源头。

Second, a related point, just like Anaximander's apeiron, Anaximenes' air is that from which other things are separated out.

按他的理论，空气的好处在于，你可以把它变稀薄变成火，也可以把它变浓密变成水、土这类冷的东西。

The nice thing about air, at least on his theory, is that you can either thin it out and make fire, or thicken it and make cold things like water and earth.

它是一种居中的物质，因此能同时作为热与冷事物的本原。

It is an in between kind of stuff, and so can be the principle for both hot and cold things.

第三，空气是看不见的，而火、云、海洋和岩石都是看得见的。

Third, there's the fact that air is invisible, unlike fire, clouds, seas, and rocks.

所以，如果真有一种无限无边的物质从四面八方包围着我们，那它只能是空气。

So, if there is some infinite, unbounded substance surrounding us in all directions, it must be air.

不然的话，我们早就该看见它了。

Otherwise, we'd be able to see it.

和泰勒斯、阿那克西曼德一样，阿那克西美尼也想用这些基本元素来解释整个宇宙。

Like Thales and Anaximander, Anaximenes wanted to explain the whole cosmos in terms of these basic constituents.

他说我们所居住的地球形状像个圆盘。

He said that the Earth we live on is shaped like a disk.

它是通过刚才说的空气变稠的过程形成的，然后漂浮在仍保持原状的空气之上。

It forms by the aforementioned process of thickening air, and then rides on the air that is still in its original state.

很自然会让人想到飞盘，不过我读过的那些关于前苏格拉底哲学的书，都没这么随意地打过这个比方。

The obvious comparison is to a Frisbee, even though none of the books I've read about Pre Socratic philosophy are frivolous enough to draw that particular analogy.

总之，他的地球是靠空气托着的，就像泰勒斯说的，地球像木头一样浮在水上。

Anyway, his Earth is held up by the air the way Thales' Earth floats in water like a piece of wood.

这种相似性不太可能是偶然的。

That similarity is not likely to be a coincidence.

显然，阿那克西美尼比阿那克西曼德更接近泰勒斯，因为他不仅认同泰勒斯关于地球是圆盘状的观点，也同意地球需要被某种东西托举着。

Certainly here, Anaximenes was closer to Thales than to Anaximander, since he agreed with the earlier thinker both about the disk like shape of the earth, and the need for it to be borne up by something.

他还提出，恒星、行星、太阳和月亮都是由火构成的。

He furthermore said that the stars, planets, sun, and moon are made of fire.

有一个很美的比喻，阿那克西美尼说这些天体就像飘浮在无边大气中的火焰般的树叶。

In a lovely image, Anaximenes apparently compared them to fiery leaves which are floating up in the airy, boundless heaven.

他还用一个更生动的比喻说，这些天体围绕着地球的圆盘旋转，就像有人头上转着一顶毛毡帽。

In a more amusing image, he said that they rotate around the disk of the earth, like a felt hat being spun around on somebody's head.

阿那克西美尼对灵魂也有自己的看法。

Anaximenes also had something to say about the soul.

不出所料，他说灵魂就是他最推崇的物质——空气，具体来说就是呼吸。

Unsurprisingly, he said that the soul is made of his favorite stuff, air, which in this case is breath.

这种将灵魂视为呼吸（希腊语称为pneuma）的观点，在后来的古希腊哲学中影响深远。

This idea of the soul as breath, or in Greek, pneuma is going to have a long career in later ancient philosophy.

这倒也说得通，毕竟动物一停止呼吸，生命也就结束了。

It makes a certain amount of sense, given that if an animal stops breathing, it stops living.

这也让阿那克西美尼能够把人体和宇宙的身体做个类比。

This also allows Anaximenes to make a comparison between the human body and the body of the cosmos.

两者都依赖同一种最根本的物质——空气来维持。

Both are sustained by the most fundamental substance, namely air.

这个观点后来影响深远。

Again, this is an idea with a long afterlife.

一直到中世纪，人们都普遍认为，人就是宇宙的微缩版，字面意义上的小宇宙。

Right down through the medieval period, it will be popular to say that the human is a little version of the physical cosmos, literally a microcosm.

虽然有人怀疑阿那克西曼德是否真有这个意思，但我觉得他很可能已经萌生了人是小宇宙这样的想法。

Though some doubt that Anaximander was making this point, I find it plausible to believe that he already has something like the idea of man as a microcosm.

没过多久，赫拉克利特就提出了一个非常相似的理论，认为人的灵魂和宇宙的本原都是同一种东西，对他来说就是火。

Before too long, Heraclitus will set out a very similar theory, according to which both the soul of man and the principle of the universe are made of the same stuff, in his case fire.

别忘了，泰勒斯也说过磁石有灵魂，也许他就是想表达，整个物质宇宙都充满灵魂，就像我们人一样。

Remember that Thales too said that magnets have a soul, possibly because he wanted to argue that the whole physical cosmos is permeated by soul, just like we are.

所以在前苏格拉底哲学的早期阶段，这种人与宇宙之间的相似性，怎么说呢，简直无处不在。

So, during the early generations of Pre Socratic philosophy, this parallel between man and the cosmos seems to have been, if you'll pardon another pun, in the air.

我想在结束本期播客时，提一下阿那克西曼德的‘无限’和阿那克西美尼的‘气’所共有的一个特点。

I want to conclude this podcast by mentioning a feature shared by both Anaximander's Infinite and Anaximenes's Heir.

这两位哲学家都认为，他们提出的本原具有神性。

Both philosophers claim that their principles are divine.

阿那克西曼德进一步说，他所谓的‘无限’在主宰着一切。

Anaximander adds that the Infinite, as he puts it, steers everything.

具体怎么主宰的，还不太清楚，也许它是通过强制执行从自身分离出的事物之间的相互平衡来实现的。

It's not quite clear how it could do so, perhaps by enforcing the reciprocal justice between the things separated out of it.

但重要的是，我们要明白，这些早期的希腊思想家并没有完全抛弃神性的概念。

But, it is important to realize that these early Greek thinkers were not giving up entirely on the notion of the divine.

事实上，据说阿那克西美尼曾说，神确实存在，就像希腊宗教所教导的那样，但这些神也是从气中产生的。

Anaximenes, in fact, is reported to have said that there are gods, just as Greek religion taught, but that these gods too came from air.

我们在这里看到的，是前苏格拉底哲学中一个微妙却至关重要的特征。

What we see here is a subtle, but nonetheless pivotally important feature of Pre Socratic philosophy.

这些思想家试图在他们所描述的动态变化的宇宙面前，保留一种宗教式的敬畏感。

These are thinkers who want to hold on to a sense of religious awe in the face of the dynamically changing cosmos they describe.

他们并不是抛弃宗教，而是在向以往对神明的理解提出挑战。

They are not discarding religion, but rather throwing down a challenge to previous conceptions of the divine.

他们的方式相当微妙，但接下来我们要谈的哲学家克塞诺芬尼，会让事情变得直接得多。

The way they do this is fairly nuanced, but things are about to get a lot less subtle with the next philosopher we'll talk about, Xenophanes.

他直接抨击了荷马和赫西俄德笔下的神明观念，由此开启了希腊宗教与希腊哲学之间的对立——或者说至少是紧张关系，这种张力一直延续到柏拉图和亚里士多德时代。

He staged a direct attack on the conception of the gods that we find in Homer and Hesiod, and in so doing began an opposition, or at least a very tense relationship, between Greek religion and Greek philosophy that will persist right through Plato and Aristotle.

关于他的更多内容，我们将在下一期《无间隙哲学史》中详细介绍。

We'll learn more about him on next week's episode of The History of Philosophy Without Any Gaps.