HoP 026 - 没有阳光 - 柏拉图《理想国》中的洞穴寓言

嗨，我是彼得·亚当森，你正在收听的是《哲学史》播客，感谢伦敦国王学院和勒沃胡姆信托基金的支持，在线访问www.historyofphilosophy.net。

Hi, I'm Peter Adamson, and you're listening to the History of Philosophy podcast brought to you with the support of King's College London and the Leverhulme Trust online at www.historyofphilosophy.net.

今天的节目是《没有阳光》，讲的是柏拉图《理想国》中的洞穴寓言。

Today's episode, Ain't No Sunshine, The Cave Allegory of Plato's Republic.

上次我们讲到我们的英雄苏格拉底在《理想国》中，他刚刚描述完完美正义之城。

When we last left our hero Socrates midway through the Republic, he had finished describing the city of perfect justice.

在这座城市里，会有三个公民阶层：真正的守护者、辅助士兵和工匠。

In this city, there would be three classes of citizens: the true Guardians, the auxiliary soldiers, and the craftsmen.

守护者将统治，就像理性统治最优秀的灵魂一样。

The Guardians would rule, just as reason rules in the best soul.

讨论中的其他参与者，格劳孔和阿德曼托斯，不仅接受了这一点，还接受了一些令人震惊的提议，比如守护者之间财产和子女的共有，以及女性也可以成为守护者。

The other parties to the discussion, Glaucon and Adeimantis, have accepted not only this, but some astonishing proposals, such as the communal sharing of property and children amongst the guardians, and the acceptance that women too can be guardians.

现在苏格拉底承诺了一个最终、更令人震惊的主张。

Now Socrates promises a final, yet more astonishing claim.

他想展示理想之城如何至少在原则上能够真正实现。

He wants to show how the ideal city could, at least in principle, actually come into existence.

苏格拉底说，只有城邦的统治者是哲学家，这个理想城邦才有可能实现。

It could only happen, says Socrates, if the rulers of the city were philosophers.

《理想国》里这个最著名的观点，配上柏拉图对话录里那些最经典的段落，真是再合适不过了。

It's fitting that this most notorious idea in the Republic is illustrated with some of the most famous passages in the Platonic dialogues.

其中就包括整个古希腊哲学中最广为人知的比喻——洞穴寓言。

These include what must be the most popular image in all of ancient philosophy, the allegory of the cave.

《理想国》的这一部分还有另外两个著名的比喻：线段比喻，以及太阳与善之形式的比较。

Also found in this stretch of the Republic are two more well known images, the Divided Line and the Comparison between the Sun and the Form of the Good.

显然，如果要编一本柏拉图最精彩片段集，这部分肯定要占很大篇幅。

Clearly, part of the Republic would feature heavily in any compilation of Plato's greatest hits.

他在这里拿出最好的材料也不奇怪，因为苏格拉底提出的这个观点既至关重要，又——说实话——很难让人接受。

And it's no surprise that he's reaching for his best material here, since the view Socrates is presenting is both crucial and, let's face it, hard to swallow.

苏格拉底自己也注意到了这一点，他说当他说哲学家应该统治时，他预料到会被一波反对意见或纯粹的嘲笑淹没。

Socrates himself draws attention to this, saying that he expects to be drowned by a wave of objections or plain old ridicule when he says that philosophers should rule.

毕竟，当时人们可不觉得哲学家能成为潜在的政治家。

After all, philosophers were hardly seen as potential politicians.

确实，我们见过哲学家偶尔涉足政治权力，比如阿那克萨戈拉与伯里克利交往，或者柏拉图本人去了叙拉古。

Admittedly, we've seen philosophers occasionally coming into contact with political power, for instance, Anaxagoras associating with Pericles, or Plato himself going to Syracuse.

但更常见的是，哲学家被视为有趣但脱离实际的文人，就像今天一样。

But more typically, philosophers were seen as amusing, detached intellectuals, just as they are today.

回想一下阿里斯托芬在《云》中对苏格拉底的描绘，你就明白了。

Think back to Aristophanes' portrayal of Socrates in the clouds, and you'll get the idea.

所以，当苏格拉底提出洞穴寓言和其他这些著名比喻时，他是在试图解释为什么哲学家应该统治城邦。

So, when Socrates produces the cave allegory and these other famous images, he is trying to explain why the philosopher should rule in the city.

但他也在试图解释，为什么在我们这些远非理想的社会中，这个提议看起来荒谬。

But he's also trying to explain why, in our own far from ideal societies, the proposal seems absurd.

要理解他的论证，我们应该记住，苏格拉底想的是一个成功的哲学家。

To understand his argument, we should remember that Socrates is thinking of a successful philosopher.

这将是已经获得知识的男人或女人，而不是像苏格拉底自己那样只知道自己的无知的人。

This will be a man or woman who has achieved knowledge, not someone who, like Socrates himself, knows only that he knows nothing.

事实上，苏格拉底通过告诉我们知识是什么，以及它与信念和无知相比如何，来告诉我们哲学家是谁。

Indeed, Socrates tells us who the philosopher is by telling us what knowledge is, and how it compares to belief and ignorance.

他说，知识和信念都是一种能力，而能力是通过它们所对应的对象来区分的。

Knowledge and belief, he says, are both powers, and powers are distinguished by their objects.

比如说，视觉是处理可见事物的能力，而听觉是处理可听事物的能力。

For instance, sight is the power that concerns visible things, whereas hearing is the power that concerns audible things.

那么，如果知识和信念都是能力，它们的对象又是什么呢？

So, if knowledge and belief are powers, what are their objects?

按照苏格拉底的说法，知识是处理存在之物的能力，而信念则是处理既存在又不存在之物的能力。

According to Socrates, knowledge is the power that concerns what is, whereas belief is the power that concerns both what is and what is not.

与此同时，无知只关注不存在之物。

Ignorance, meanwhile, only concerns itself with what is not.

那这到底是什么意思呢？

So what does that mean?

知识关乎存在，信念则关乎存在与不存在。

Knowledge concerns what is belief what is and is not.

这很容易让人想起巴门尼德诗篇的开头。

It's apt to remind us of the beginning of Parmenides's poem.

和那首诗一样，《理想国》里的这段内容也同样让人困惑，也引发了大量的评论。

And like the poem, this bit of the Republic has provoked puzzlement and comment in equal measure.

理解这段内容最常见的方式，也是后来古代柏拉图主义者中流行的一种方式，就是认为知识的对象是另一个完全不同的现实层次或领域：即“理型”。

The most common way of understanding the passage, and one which became popular among Platonists in later antiquity, is that the objects of knowledge are a completely different level or realm of reality: the forms.

理型是与我们周围世界中的具体事物相分离的。

The forms are separate from physical things in the world around us.

而这些具体事物，反过来，就是那些既存在又不存在的信念对象。

These physical items are in turn the things that are and are not the objects of belief.

但为什么我要承认像长颈鹿这样的具体事物既存在又不存在呢？

But why should I admit that a physical thing like a giraffe both is and is not?

实际上，那到底是什么意思？

In fact, what would that even mean?

这不太好说，不过后来的古代柏拉图主义者确实有一些建议。

It's not easy to say, though the later ancient Platonists do have a few suggestions.

比如，他们把这一观点与赫拉克利特的流变理论联系起来。

For instance, they connected this idea to the Heraclitean flux theory.

因为物理对象在不断地变化，总是从一种状态变成另一种状态，所以它们既存在又不存在。

Since physical objects are constantly changing, always going from being one thing to being something else, they both are and are not.

如果你不喜欢这种解释，你可能会更喜欢一种更新的解读。

If you don't like that, you might prefer a more recent interpretation.

苏格拉底的意思是，知识只关乎存在，因为它总是真实的，而信念则可能为真也可能为假，因此既关乎存在也关乎不存在。

Socrates means to say that knowledge only is, in the sense that it is always true, whereas belief can be either true or false, and thus concerns both what is and what is not.

当然，无知只关乎不存在，因为它总是错误的。

Ignorance, of course, concerned only what is not, because it is always false.

无论我们如何理解这里的苏格拉底，很明显哲学家是一个非常特殊的群体。

However we should understand Socrates here, it's clear that philosophers are a very unusual group.

例如，许多人喜爱美好的景象和声音，但只有哲学家关心美本身。

Whereas many people love beautiful sights and sounds, for instance, only the philosophers concern themselves with beauty itself.

但这听起来真的像是担任政治统治者的资格吗？

But does this really sound like a qualification for the job of political ruler?

如果要说的话，哲学家似乎对充满冲突和妥协的混乱政治世界无话可说。

If anything, it seems like the philosopher would have nothing to say about the messy world of politics, with its conflicts and compromises.

哲学家的脑袋会完全埋在云里，就像阿里斯托芬说的那样。

The philosopher's head will be squarely in the clouds, as Aristophanes said.

不过，对苏格拉底来说，事实远非如此。

For Socrates, though, nothing could be further from the truth.

毕竟，《理想国》的全部意义就在于建立一个由完美正义统治的城邦，所以统治者必须是那个理解正义本质的人。

After all, the whole point of the Republic is to establish a city governed by perfect justice, so the ruler will have to be the person who grasps the nature of justice.

在一系列著名的比喻中，第一个接踵而至，苏格拉底把典型希腊城邦的状况比作船上的情形。

In the first of the series of famous images which now come thick and fast, Socrates describes the situation of a typical Greek city as being like the situation on board a ship.

有一个相当愚蠢的船主，他代表城邦的民众。

There's a rather stupid ship owner who represents the people of the city.

一群水手，代表典型的政治家和诡辩家，试图用说服、药物、酒，或者任何手边的东西，说服船主让他们掌舵。

A crowd of sailors, representing typical politicians and sophists, tries to persuade the ship owner to let them steer the ship using persuasion, drugs, and wine, or whatever else comes to hand.

但船上唯一真正懂航海的人，能靠星辰导航、懂天气等等，却被船上其他人鄙视，认为他没用。

But the one person on the ship who actually understands navigation, who can steer by the stars, understand the weather, and so on, is disdained by everyone else on board as useless.

这个人按理说才应该是船长，就像哲学家按理说才应该是城邦的统治者一样。

This is the man who should by rights be the captain, just as the philosopher should by rights be the ruler in the city.

那么，哲学家到底知道些什么，让他或她有资格进行政治统治，就像航海术让真正的船长有资格掌舵一样？

So, what exactly does the philosopher know which qualifies him or her for political rule, the way the art of navigation qualifies the true captain to steer the ship?

嗯，显然就是正义本身，而且显然还有美本身。

Well, clearly justice itself, and apparently beauty itself as well.

简而言之，哲学家了解那些形式，就像我们从早期的柏拉图对话《斐多篇》中所了解和喜爱的那样。

In short, the philosopher knows about the forms, as we know and love them from an earlier Platonic dialogue, the Phaedo.

但现在柏拉图让苏格拉底说了些他在《斐多篇》里没说过的话。

But now Plato has Socrates say something he didn't say in the Phaedo.

是的，确实有正义、美等形式。

Yes, there are forms of justice, beauty, and so on.

但还有更重要的东西，那就是善的形式。

But there's something even more important, the form of the good.

对善的认识将是哲学家智慧的基石，因为如果不知道善的本质，哲学家就无法理解其他所有形式中什么是善的。

Knowledge of the good will be a kind of capstone to the philosopher's wisdom, because without knowing the nature of goodness, the philosopher will not understand what is good about all the other forms.

接下来又是一个著名的比喻。

And here comes another famous image.

苏格拉底把善的形式比作太阳。

Socrates compares the form of the good to the sun.

就像太阳让我们能看见周围的事物一样，善的形式也让灵魂能够理解其他的形式。

Just as the sun makes the visible objects around us visible to sight, so the form of the good renders the other forms intelligible to the soul.

而且，就像太阳给自然万物带来生长和滋养，善的形式也赋予了灵魂所认识的事物以存在本身。

Indeed, just as the sun gives growth and nourishment to the things in nature, the form of the Good gives being itself to the things known by the soul.

用一句影响后世几个世纪的话来说，善的形式在尊严和力量上超越了存在，是一种超级形式，它赋予了其他形式善性和可理解性。

In a phrase which will reverberate in centuries to come, the form of the good is said to be beyond being in dignity and power, a kind of super form which gives other forms their goodness and intelligibility.

我知道你在想什么，幸运的是，格劳孔也在想同样的事情。

Now, I know what you're thinking, and fortunately, Glaucon is thinking the same thing.

他追问苏格拉底，让他解释这个太阳的比喻到底是什么意思。

He presses Socrates to explain what in the world he's talking about with this image of the sun.

苏格拉底很乐意解释，在他的说明中，他给出了《理想国》中间部分最后两个著名的比喻：线段之喻和洞穴之喻。

Socrates is happy to oblige, and in his explanation, he provides the two final images in this middle part of the Republic, the Divided Line and the Allegory of the Cave.

线段之喻是为了帮助我们理解这个观点：太阳和善的形式是第一因或本原。

The image of the Divided Line is supposed to help us understand this idea that the sun and the form of the good are first causes or principles.

就像我说的，太阳既让事物可见，又让事物得以存在。

The sun, as I said, both makes things visible and helps make the things exist in the first place.

同样，善也是形式的一种第一原则。

In the same way, the Good is a kind of first principle for forms.

正义的形式如果不善，就不成其为正义，美的形式也是如此。

The form of justice could not be what it is without being good, and neither could the form of beauty.

所以，把握善就像是掌握了一把钥匙，能让我们理解所有的形式。

So grasping the Good will be a kind of key that unlocks for us the understanding of all the forms.

它似乎是形式之上最高层级的原则，统领着所有形式。

It seems to stand as the highest principle in a kind of hierarchy presiding over the forms.

我们可见世界中的具体事物，都分有了这些形式，因此可以被看作是形式的影像。

The physical things around us in the visible world partake of these forms and thus can be thought of as images of the forms.

而在现实的最底层，还有这些影像的影像，比如具体事物的影子或倒影。

Then, at the very bottom of the scale of reality, there are images of these images, for instance shadows or reflections of physical things.

为了说明这个理论，苏格拉底让我们想象一条线，分成两个不相等的部分，每一部分再按同样的比例分成两个不相等的段。

So to illustrate the theory, Socrates asked us to imagine a line cut into two unequal parts, with each part subdivided in the same ratio into two unequal segments.

所以，我们有一条分成四段的线。

So, we have a line with four segments.

最下面那段代表那些物理对象的纯粹影像，也就是影子和倒影。

The lowest segment represents those mere images of physical objects, the shadows and reflections.

接下来那段代表物理对象本身，也就是非哲学家认为真正真实的东西，比如长颈鹿、岩石和埃菲尔铁塔。

The next segment represents the physical objects themselves, the things that non philosophers take to be really real, like giraffes, rocks, and the Eiffel Tower.

这两段合起来象征着整个可见世界。

These two segments together symbolize the whole visible realm.

线的第二部分，也就是较长的那部分，代表我们能认识的东西，而不是能看见的东西。

The second, longer part of the line represents what we can know rather than what we can see.

这部分同样被分成两段。

It likewise is subdivided into two segments.

在这里，我们期待苏格拉底会说，上面两段应该代表形式，而最顶端则是善的形式。

Here we are expecting Socrates to say that the two higher segments are supposed to stand for the forms and then, at the very top, the form of the Good.

不过，他说的并不是这样。

This isn't quite what he says though.

相反，他说第一段代表他所谓的假设。

Instead, he says that the first segment represents what he calls hypotheses.

这些是我们基于其他更根本的原理而知道的东西。

These are things we know on the basis of some other more fundamental principle.

然后，线段最后最长的那一段代表那些根本原理，即所有其他真理所依据的真理。

Then, the final longest segment of the line represents those fundamental principles, the truths on which all other truths are founded.

苏格拉底举了几何学的例子，但我们可能更熟悉像逻辑或算术系统这样的东西。

Socrates gives the example of geometry, but we might be more comfortable with something like a logical or arithmetical system.

你有基本的公理，整个系统的真理都由此而来。

You have your fundamental axioms, and from these follows the truth of the whole system.

但这种说法有点误导，因为对苏格拉底来说，基本原理不是像数学公理那样我们简单假设的东西，而是确定无疑、不可动摇的真理。

But that way of putting it is somewhat misleading, because for Socrates the basic principle will not be something we simply postulate like an axiom in mathematics, It will be something certainly and unshakably true.

这就是善的形式所扮演的角色。

This, then, is the role played by the Form of the Good.

它本身就是一个完全确定的知识对象，它奠定了我们所有知识的基础，并使这些知识成为真理。

An object of completely certain knowledge in its own right, it grounds all our knowledge and makes that knowledge come out true.

这终于把我们带到了洞穴寓言。

And that finally brings us to the cave.

与那条线的抽象形象不同，洞穴寓言非常具体。

Unlike the rather abstract image of the line, the allegory of the cave is extremely concrete.

我们要想象一群囚犯，被锁链锁在洞穴的底部。

We are to imagine a group of prisoners, chained at the bottom of a cave.

他们身后是一堵墙，墙后面是一堆火。

Behind them is a wall, and beyond that, a fire.

墙后面还有其他人，手里拿着木偶。

There are more people just behind the wall, carrying puppets.

借着火光，这些木偶在囚犯面前的墙上投下影子。

Thanks to the firelight, these puppets cast shadows on the wall in front of the prisoners.

这些不幸的囚犯除了这些影子什么也看不见，除了操纵木偶的人发出的回声什么也听不见。

The unfortunate prisoners can see nothing but these shadows, and hear nothing but the echoing noises made by the puppeteers.

他们完全脱离了现实，因为他们只看到那些甚至不是真实的东西的影子，也就是那些木偶。

They are radically removed from reality because they see nothing but shadows of things that aren't even real, namely the puppets.

他们非常认真地玩着完全没意义的游戏，争着去预测和辨认那些影子。

They very seriously engage in completely pointless games, competing to predict and identify the shadows.

当然，这里令人不安的启示是，我们就像那些被锁住的囚犯，而我们社会中那些看似重要的政治辩论和公共事务，其实就像囚犯们玩的那些无意义的影子游戏一样。

Of course, the disturbing message is that we are like the chained prisoners, and that the apparently crucial political debates and public affairs of our societies are like the meaningless shadow games played by the prisoners.

现在苏格拉底让我们想象一下，如果一个囚犯被释放了，会发生什么。

Now Socrates asks us to imagine what would happen if a prisoner were set free.

他们被强行从熟悉的影子现实中拽出来，如果有人把他们拖到阳光下，他们只会又踢又叫地反抗。

Wrenched away from their familiar reality of shadows, they would only go kicking and screaming if someone dragged them out into the sunlight.

但一旦他们被拉出洞穴，从刺眼的阳光中恢复过来后，他们最终会看清现实的真面目。

But once they were pulled from the cave, after recovering from their dazzlement, they would finally see reality for what it is.

你已经猜到了，这个被释放的囚犯就代表着哲学家。

As you've already guessed, this freed prisoner represents the philosopher.

就像哲学家通过善的形式作为原则来把握理念一样，被释放的囚犯在阳光下看到了洞穴外的真实事物。

Just as the philosopher grasps the forms, using the form of the Good as a principle, so the freed prisoner sees the real things outside the cave by the light of the sun.

这就解释了为什么在我们腐败的社会里，哲学家看起来无用且不切实际。

And this explains why philosophers seem useless and otherworldly in our corrupt societies.

哲学家对普通人的影子游戏和二手影像毫无兴趣。

The philosopher has no interest in the shadow games and secondhand images of normal folk.

与此同时，这些普通人根本无法理解哲学家所见证的真实。

Meanwhile, these normal folk have no hope of understanding the true reality the philosopher has witnessed.

所以，在现实世界中实现正义的前景似乎相当黯淡。

So the prospect for achieving justice in the real world would seem to be rather bleak.

我们这些被蒙蔽在影像世界中的囚徒，永远不会欢迎哲学家来当统治者。

We prisoners duped in our world of images will never welcome the philosopher as a ruler.

确实，苏格拉底承认，哲学家要统治一个真实城邦，几乎只能靠极大的运气，比如一个具有哲学头脑的人恰好出生在王族，继承了王位。

Indeed, Socrates admits that just about the only way a philosopher could get to rule a real city would be by a stroke of great fortune, whereby a philosophically minded person is born to a king and inherits his throne.

这当然不太可能，但苏格拉底只要能提出一个理想城邦在原则上可能实现的方式，他就满足了。

This isn't very likely, of course, but Socrates is happy if he can just suggest a way that the ideal city could come about in principle.

但还有另一个问题：这对真正的哲学家有什么好处呢？

But there's another problem: what's in it for the true philosophers?

很明显，他们不会愿意再回到洞穴的黑暗中去。

It's clear they would have no interest in descending back into the darkness of the cave.

既然能在阳光下待着，为什么还要再钻进那个充满影子的洞穴呢？

Why plunge again into the cave of shadows when they could stay out in the sunlight?

苏格拉底正面回应了这个问题，承认统治其实并不符合哲学家的利益。

Socrates tackles this problem squarely, admitting that it is not really in the philosopher's interest to rule.

但他们并不自私，他们必须明白，正义的要求就是尽可能去掌管城邦。

But they're not selfish, and they must see that the demand of justice is for them to take command of the city if at all possible.

所以，《理想国》中的哲学家，也就是真正的守护者，会带着遗憾但出于责任感，成为哲学王。

And so, it is with regret but a feeling of duty that the philosophers of the Republic, the true guardians, would become philosopher kings.

讽刺的是，真正应该掌权的，恰恰是那些对权力毫不在意的人。

Ironically, it is those who care nothing for power who should truly hold power.

还是说只有我觉得，柏拉图这里说得挺有道理？

And is it me, or does Plato have a point here?

洞穴寓言是柏拉图著作中最有力的篇章之一。

The Allegory of the Cave is one of the most powerful passages in the Platonic corpus.

在政治层面上，它的含义很明确：它告诉我们哲学家应该统治，同时也解释了为什么哲学家在有缺陷的社会里看起来那么不知所措。

And at the political level, its meaning is clear: it tells us that the philosopher should rule, and also explains the apparent cluelessness of philosophers in defective societies.

作为一个确实看起来有点懵的哲学家，我对最后那一点只能完全赞同。

Speaking as a philosopher who does tend to appear clueless, I can only agree wholeheartedly with that last bit.

但洞穴寓言还有哪些其他的哲学含义呢？

But what about the other philosophical implications of the allegory?

关于这个洞穴，有两个常见的误解，我想在结束这一集之前澄清一下。

There are two common misconceptions about the cave, which I'd like to clear up before concluding this episode.

第一个误解是，洞穴寓言让柏拉图承诺了我们的世界和理念世界之间的某种彻底分离。

The first misconception is that the cave allegory commits Plato to some kind of radical separation between our world and the world of forms.

这是对柏拉图的一个普遍假设，认为他相信某种独立的理念天堂，并敦促我们完全忽视物理世界，转而关注那个非物质的理念世界。

This is a widespread assumption about Plato, that he believes in a kind of separate heaven of forms and urges us to ignore the physical world entirely in favor of that other immaterial world.

事实上，亚里士多德经常批评柏拉图，认为理念与周围的事物是彻底分离的。

Aristotle, in fact, often criticized Plato for holding that the forms are radically separate from the things around us.

但如果洞穴的阴影世界与外面阳光明媚的世界是分开的，那也不是彻底分离的。

But if the shadowy cave world is separate from the sunny world outside, it isn't radically separate.

毕竟，你可以像哲学家那样从一个世界走到另一个世界，并且记住，囚犯看到的阴影是木偶的影子，而木偶是洞穴外事物的木偶。

You can go from one to the other, after all, as the philosopher does, and remember that the shadows that the prisoners see are shadows of puppets, and the puppets are puppets of the things outside the cave.

这说明阴影和外面的真实事物之间是有某种联系的。

That shows that there is some kind of connection between the shadows and the real things outside.

阴影是现实的二手影像，但它们仍然是现实的影像。

The shadows are second hand images of reality, but they are still images of reality.

也许柏拉图的重点并不是强调存在两个完全不同的领域：一边是物理的伪现实，另一边是真正的形式。

Perhaps then Plato's point is not so much to stress that there are two utterly different realms of objects: physical pseudo realities on the one hand, and real forms on the other.

相反，重点可能是描述看待同一个现实的两种不同方式。

Instead, the point might be to describe two different ways of seeing one and the same reality.

我们可以通过短暂且未经深思的信念来把握现实，也可以通过扎实且确证的知识来把握。

We can grasp that reality by means of transitory ill considered beliefs, or with solid, certified knowledge.

通常，我们满足于真假混杂的真理，但哲学家的方法要求的是纯粹的真理，不容半点虚假。

Usually, we make do with truths that are mixed generously with falsehoods, but the philosopher's approach demands truth and nothing but the truth.

所以，柏拉图所做的根本对比或分离，与其说是两个领域——一个神圣非物质，另一个阴暗物质——不如说是知识与单纯信念之间的对比。

So the radical contrast or separation Plato is making is not so much between two realms, one heavenly and immaterial, the other shadowy and physical, as it is a contrast between knowledge and mere belief.

关于洞穴寓言，第二个常见的误解是柏拉图在推崇某种神秘主义。

A second misconception about the cave allegory is that Plato is endorsing some kind of mysticism.

按照这种理解，哲学家在离开洞穴的那一刻，会像灵光一闪一样领悟到真理和现实。

On this interpretation, the philosopher would grasp truth and reality in a kind of flash of insight upon leaving the cave.

这种领悟会深刻到超凡脱俗，以至于哲学家根本无法向洞穴里那些蒙昧的囚徒解释清楚。

The result will be an understanding so deep, so otherworldly, that the philosopher simply cannot explain it to the benighted prisoners down in the cave.

这是一种无法用语言表达的知识。

It is a knowledge which cannot be put into words.

确实，后来柏拉图学派中确实出现了把灵魂之眼从无知转向某种光明知识这样的说法。

Now admittedly, the idea of turning the eye of the soul from ignorance towards some kind of luminous knowledge does appear in the later Platonic tradition.

但柏拉图本人谈到从阴影中转身时，他描述的是一个艰苦的教育过程，而不是什么神圣的启示闪现。

But when Plato himself talks about turning away from the shadows, he describes an arduous process of education, not a divine flash of revelation.

首先，被释放的囚犯必须沿着陡峭的小路爬出洞穴。

First, the freed prisoner must climb the steep path out of the cave.

而且即使他逃出来了，他看到的也主要不是太阳本身，而是被阳光照亮的世界万物。

And even when he escapes, it is not so much the sun that he sees as the things in the world illuminated by the light of the sun.

正如我的同事M.

As my colleague M.

M.

M.

麦凯布喜欢指出，看可以是一个主动的分析过程，更像是在审视或观察，而不是灵光一现。

McCabe is fond of pointing out, seeing can be an active analytical process, more like examining or looking than a flash of insight.

而且有充分的理由认为，哲学家逃离洞穴时发生的就是这个过程。

And there are good reasons to think that this is what happens when the philosopher escapes from the cave.

回想一下“线段之喻”。

Think back to the Divided Line.

正如我们所见，这个比喻告诉我们，知识具有一种特定的结构，其中第一原理保证了我们所知其他事物的真实性。

As we saw, this image tells us that knowledge has a specific kind of structure according to which first principles guarantee the truth of the rest of the things we know.

这就是柏拉图所说的辩证法。

This is what Plato calls dialectic.

辩证法是指提出假设，然后发现支撑这些假设的原理的过程，就像几何学中那样。

Dialectic means the process of making hypotheses, and then discovering the principles that would support those hypotheses as they do in geometry.

这听起来并不特别神秘。

This doesn't sound particularly mystical.

柏拉图把知识呈现为一个复杂的、分析性的过程。

Plato presents knowledge as a complex, analytical process.

而且，这样一个过程的成果似乎也是可以用语言表达出来的。

It also seems that the fruits of such a process could be put into words.

当哲学家回到洞穴里时，他无法仅仅通过交谈就让囚犯们相信真理，但这并不是因为他无话可说，或者他的知识无法言说、神秘莫测，而仅仅是因为囚犯们除非自己参与辩证，否则永远无法理解或信服哲学家的解释。

When the philosopher goes back into the cave, he's not able to convert the prisoners to the truth just by talking to them, but this isn't because he has nothing to say that his knowledge is inexpressible or mystical it's simply because the prisoners would never be able to understand or be convinced by the philosopher's account until they themselves engage in dialectic.

有些听众可能会对我这一集结尾提出的观点持怀疑态度。

Some listeners might be suspicious of the points I've been making towards the end of this episode.

他们可能会觉得我把柏拉图变得不那么，嗯，柏拉图式了。

They may feel that I'm making Plato less, well, Platonic.

当然，柏拉图主义的全部要点就在于它是一种超凡脱俗的哲学，存在着一个独立的理型世界，只能通过直接直觉来把握，难道不是吗？

Surely, the whole point of Platonism is that it is an otherworldly philosophy, that there is a separate realm of forms which can be grasped only by direct intuition?

嗯，卡尔·马克思有句名言，说他不是马克思主义者，如果这就是柏拉图主义的话，那么在我看来，柏拉图本人也不是柏拉图主义者。

Well, Karl Marx famously said that he wasn't a Marxist, and if this is what Platonism is, then for my money, Plato was no Platonist.

如果你还没有被说服，请保留判断，等到下周再说。

If you're not convinced yet, please reserve judgment until next week.

我们接下来要看一篇对话录的开头部分，叫《巴门尼德篇》。

We'll be looking at the opening section of a dialogue called the Parmenides.

在那篇对话里，柏拉图大胆地让巴门尼德本人出来当发言人，借他的口对理型论提出了一连串致命的质疑。

There, Plato boldly uses Father Parmenides himself as a spokesman, and puts into his mouth a series of devastating objections to the theory of forms.

文中被称为理型论最大难题的那个问题，正好凸显了把理型跟我们的世界彻底割裂开来会带来多大的风险。

What is there called the greatest difficulty for the theory highlights the dangers of making the forms radically separate from our world.

所以，至少在他写《巴门尼德篇》的时候，柏拉图已经意识到，这种把理型世界完全独立出来的柏拉图主义，可能会遭到非常致命的批评。

So, at least by the time he wrote the Parmenides, Plato saw that there were potentially devastating objections against this kind of Platonism with its totally separate world of forms.

那就请下周继续收听《无缺口的哲学史》，我们来讲第一位伟大的柏拉图批评者——柏拉图本人。

Join me then for the first great critic of Platonism, Plato, next week on the history of philosophy without any gaps.