琼斯路美容顾问热线：与Bobbi Brown对话

Wondery Plus订阅用户现在可以提前无广告收听《我是如何打造这一切》的节目。立即在Wondery应用或Apple播客中订阅Wondery Plus。最近，你可能听说了一种严重但罕见的心脏疾病——ATTR心脏淀粉样变性（ATTR-CM）。由于症状与其他心脏疾病相似，确诊可能需要时间。但了解更多关于ATTR-CM及其治疗方法Atrubi（又称acaramidis）的信息，对你或你所爱的人可能至关重要。

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to how I built this early and ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Lately, you may have been hearing about a serious but rare heart condition called ATTR cardiac amyloidosis, or ATTR Centimeters. Because symptoms can be similar to other heart conditions, it may take time to be diagnosed. But learning more about ATTR Centimeters and a treatment called Atrubi, also known as acaramidis, could be important for you or a loved one.

Atrubi是一种处方药，用于治疗成人ATTR-CM，以降低因心脏问题导致的死亡率。在一项研究中，服用Atrubi的患者在健康相关生活质量上有所改善，且因心脏问题住院的次数比未服用者减少了50%，让你有更多机会与所爱之人共度美好时光。若你怀孕、计划怀孕或正在哺乳，或正在服用其他药物，请告知医生。最常见的副作用较轻，包括腹泻和腹痛。如患有ATTR-CM，请咨询心脏科医生关于Atrubi的信息，或访问atruby.com。

Atrubi is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with ATTR Centimeters to reduce death and due to heart issues. In a study, people taking Atruvi saw an impact on their health related quality of life and fifty percent fewer hospitalizations due to heart issues than people who didn't take Atruvi, giving you more chances to do what you love with who you love. Tell your doctor if you are pregnant, plan to become pregnant, or are breastfeeding, and about the medications you take. The most common side effects were mild and included diarrhea and abdominal pain. If you have ATTR Centimeters, talk to your cardiologist about Atruby or visit atruby.com.

了解更多信息，请访问atruby.com。

That's attruby.com to learn more.

你的AI是否专为处理企业数据而设计？IBM帮助你整合并管理分散的非结构化数据，让你的企业拥有更精准的AI，而非仅仅是更多的AI。立即访问ibm.com，为AI准备好你的数据。专为企业打造的AI——IBM。

Is your AI built to work with your business' data? IBM helps you integrate and govern unstructured data wherever it lives so your business can have more accurate AI instead of just more of it. Get your data ready for AI at ibm.com. The AI built for business. IBM.

我喜欢和家人一起旅行。今年夏天我们度过了一次精彩的旅程，而让这次旅行如此特别的，正是我们参与的Airbnb体验活动——沉浸式导览、烹饪课程，还有与世界级咖啡师共饮咖啡的机会。这些体验让我乐在其中，于是我决定在旧金山主持自己的Airbnb原创体验，旨在帮助你思考如何开启职业生涯或人生的下一篇章。想了解更多关于我的Airbnb原创体验，请访问airbnb.com/guy。

I love traveling with my family. We did an awesome trip this summer, and one of the things that made the trip so special were the Airbnb experiences we did. Immersive tours, cooking classes, a chance to get coffee with a world class barista. I had so much fun on those experiences that I decided to host my own Airbnb original experience in San Francisco, designed to help you think about how to unlock your next big move in your career or even in your life. To learn more about my Airbnb original experience, head to airbnb.com/guy.

Klaviyo是唯一专为B2C打造的CRM平台，也是让黑色星期五和网络星期一成为你最成功营销活动的关键。通过集营销、客服、分析及所有客户数据于一体的AI驱动平台，Klaviyo帮助你建立能带来更多收入的关系，并大规模提供真正个性化的体验。加入超过176,000个品牌（如Away、Patrick Ta和Dollar Shave Club）的行列，在klaviyo.com上实现增长。大家好，欢迎收听《我是如何打造这一切实验室》的咨询热线，我是盖伊·拉兹。

Klaviyo is the only CRM built for b to c and the key to making Black Friday and Cyber Monday your biggest wins yet. With marketing, service, analytics, and all your customer data in one AI powered platform, Klaviyo helps you build relationships that drive more revenue and deliver truly personalized experiences at scale. Join the more than 176,000 brands like Away, Patrick Ta and Dollar Shave Club that already grow with Klavio at k l a v I y o dot com. Hello, and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz.

这里是帮助你解决商业挑战的地方。每周，我都会邀请一位节目曾采访过的传奇创始人，与我一起为你提供建议。如果你正在创业并需要指导，请拨打我们的电话，你或许会成为下一位节目嘉宾。我们的号码是+1 804331298。请发送一段一分钟的语音，介绍你的业务及需要帮助的问题或疑问。

This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges. Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you. And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call, and you just might be the next guest on the show. Our number is +1 804331298. Send us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with.

你也可以发送语音备忘录至hibt@id.Wondery.com，并确保告诉我们如何联系你。还有，别忘了订阅我的新闻简报，里面充满了来自世界顶级企业家们的见解和想法。你可以免费在guyraz.com上注册。我们会把所有信息放在播客描述中。

You can also send us a voice memo at hibt@id.Wondery.com, and make sure to tell us how to reach you. And also, don't forget to sign up for my newsletter. It's full of insights and ideas from the world's greatest entrepreneurs. You can sign up for free at guyraz.com. And we'll put all this info in the podcast description.

好的，让我们开始吧。今天和我一起的是Bobby Brown，Bobby Brown Cosmetics和Jones Road Beauty的创始人。Bobby，欢迎回到《How I Built This》。

Alright. Let's get to it. Joining me today is Bobby Brown, founder of Bobby Brown Cosmetics and Jones Road Beauty. Bobby, welcome back to how I built this.

很高兴再次见到你。

So nice to see you again.

我也是。所以当我们2018年第一次邀请你上节目时，在谈论那之前，我必须说，我发现自己经常提到你，因为每次我演讲或在某个舞台上露面时，最终都会和化妆师聊到你，聊到你如何开始这段不可思议的职业生涯，他们中有很多人都深受你的启发。我是说，人们知道你的故事，知道你如何打造了这个标志性品牌。对于那些没听过Bobby 2018年《How I Built This》原版节目的听众，我们会在节目笔记中放上链接。那一期真的很棒。

You too. So when we first had you on the show back in 2018, I have before I even talk about that, I have to say, I find myself talking about you all the time because every time I give a speech or appear on stage somewhere, I end up talking with the makeup artist about you and how you started your incredible career doing that work, and so many of them are so inspired by you. I mean, people know your story, you know, by what you built this iconic brand. For for those listening who who haven't heard Bobby's original How I Built This episode from 2018, we will put a link to it in the show notes. It's such a good episode.

你谈到了八十年代你是如何做化妆的，那真的是一个非常夸张、超级华丽的世界。然后你创造了一种更低调、自然的新风格。这就是后来被称为裸妆的风格，你就是这样推出了自己的品牌。总之，在我们那次谈话时，Bobby，你还在与收购了Bobby Brown的雅诗兰黛有竞业禁止协议。但在2020年，协议到期了，你推出了一个名为Jones Road的新美容品牌。

You talked about how you're doing makeup in the eighties, and it was really this, like, over the top, super glam kind of world. And then you kinda created a new look that was more understated, natural. This is what became known as nude makeup, and that's how you launched your brand. And, anyway, back when we had that conversation, Bobby, you were still under a noncompete with Estee Lauder who acquired Bobby Brown. But in 2020, that expired, and you launched a new beauty brand called Jones Road.

就在我25年竞业禁止协议到期的那天，我这么做了。因为太棒了。你知道，就在总统选举前一周，在COVID和所有事情的中间。你知道吗？有时候你就是得做点什么。

The day my twenty five year noncompete expired, I did. Because Amazing. You know, right a week before the presidential elections in the middle of, you know, everything, COVID and everything. And you know what? You just sometimes you have to do something.

如果没成功，那就，哦，好吧，没成功。我们再试试别的。

And if it doesn't work, then just, oh, well, that didn't work. Let's do something else.

这太棒了。我是说，你在一个许多创业者会选择庆祝胜利、宣告‘我卖掉了公司，我的名字已经家喻户晓’的时刻，却决定从零开始重新创业。告诉我，是什么驱使你做出这个决定。

It's awesome. I mean, you launched this at a time where some entrepreneurs would just say, do a victory lap and say, you know, I I sold this business. I and and my name is kind of, you know, ubiquitous. And but you decided to start something from scratch all over again. Tell me what what compelled you to do that.

你当时在市场上看到了什么，或是没看到什么，促使你在人生那个阶段选择再次创业？

What did you see in or not see in the market that compelled you to to start a do a start up again at that point in your in your life?

嗯，即使在雅诗兰黛任职末期，我也感觉到行业在变革，世界在变化，一切都在转变。我不喜欢这种趋势，真心想改变品牌方向却无能为力。你知道，在大企业工作，改革真的很难。

Well, I just felt, even at the end of my tenure at Estee Lauder, I felt the industry was changing, the world was changing, things were shifting. And I didn't like the way it was going. And I really wanted to make changes at the brand and I couldn't. You know, when you work for a big corporation, it's really tough.

尤其是当品牌冠着你的名字时。确实。

When your name is on the label. Yes.

即便挂着我的名字也一样。所以市场上存在空缺——我不喜欢当时试用的许多纯净彩妆的质地，虽然不确定能否做得更好，但我想要尝试，最终我做到了。

Even when your name's on the label. Exactly. So, there was something missing in the market. I didn't like the texture of a lot of the clean makeup that I was playing with, and I thought I I wasn't sure if I could do better, but I wanted to try to do better, and I did.

是啊。这个问题你可能也没有标准答案，我觉得这更多是种直觉。你本可以说‘已经很完美了，我被视为行业先驱’就此止步。

Yeah. You know, I I you may not even have the answer. I don't think I have the answer for this because I think it's more of an intuitive thing. But, you know, you could have said, you know, it was awesome. I really I I'm considered a pioneer in this industry.

你确实是先驱。你本可以只当导师或投资人，偶尔参与些项目。但创办企业——你比任何人都清楚——需要全天候投入，耗尽全部精力。你是否觉得这件事非做不可？

You are. And maybe I'll be a mentor and an investor and, you know, kind of dabble here and there. But to to to muster all your energy because a startup, as you know better than anyone else, it is a full time twenty four seven job. It is all encompassing. And did you feel like you just had to do it?

就像，你根本无法抑制内心那股能量？

Like, you just couldn't contain the energy that was inside of you?

这对我来说不是做与不做的选择题。当我开始制作这些产品时，我只觉得它们如此简单又出众，人们一定会爱上它们。我原计划可能在Etsy上创业，先从推出一款顶级棕色眼影开始。

I it was not an option of doing it or non or not doing it. When I when I started to make these products, I just thought, these are so simple, and they're so much better. People are gonna love these. I thought I would maybe start the company on Etsy. Just put like the best brown eye shadow and start there.

后来我意识到，应该换个方式来做。所以我迫不及待要推出产品。第二次我彻底颠覆了第一次的所有做法，但我不觉得艰难，只觉得这太酷了。

And and then I realized, okay, there's a different way to do this. So, no, I I could not wait to launch. And I did everything completely different the second time that I did the first time. But I didn't look at it as hard. I looked at it as this is so cool.

我感到重获新生。要知道，我创立这个品牌时已经62岁了，现在68岁。没错，68岁。

I felt I felt renewed. First of all, I was 62 years old when I started this brand. I'm 68. I'm 68

我明白

I right

太喜欢这种感觉了。回归简单事物令人振奋。顺便说Guy，我超爱掌舵的感觉，是时候由我来掌控了。比如我们可以不用做那些繁文缛节——

love that. It's like it's invigorating to go back to the simple things. And by the way, Guy, I love being in charge. It was time for me to be in charge. I'm like, okay, we don't have to do that.

不必举办盛大派对，不必挥霍资金，不必投放广告，只需口口相传。就这样在实践中摸索，我可是个实干派。

We don't have to have a big party. We don't have to spend all that money. We don't have to advertise. We just have to tell people about it. So, you know, you figure things out, and I'm very scrappy.

我不喜欢浪费金钱。我不喜欢浪费时间或精力，我想弄清楚什么值得我投入时间和精力，以及如何在不花大钱的情况下做事。

I don't like to waste money. I don't like to waste time or energy, and I'd like to figure out what what is worth my time and energy and how to do things without spending a ton of money.

是的。我想问你关于你开创的这个被称为裸妆的概念。对吧？就是你化了妆但几乎看不出来，是一种非常自然的妆容。

Yeah. I I wanna ask you about this thing that you pioneered, which is known became known as nude makeup. Right? This idea that you were wearing makeup, but you couldn't really tell. It was it was very a very natural look.

我记得我们讨论这个时，总有人说，哦，这只是一时流行。你知道吗？人们又会想打扮得像八十年代那些瓷娃娃面具一样。但几十年过去了，裸妆依然很重要。

And I know I remember when we talked about this. Some people all the time were like, oh, this is gonna be a fad. You know? People are gonna want to look like, you know, those those those porcelain masks from the eighties again. But, of course, decades later, nude makeup is still a big deal.

我们现在不这么叫它了。对吧？但它依然存在。今天我们会有一些听众担心他们的成功——有限的成功或无论什么——可能只是昙花一现。所以你如何看待你正在打造的东西？

We don't call it that anymore. Right? It's still it's the thing. Like and and we're gonna have some some callers today that are, you know, that are worried that, you know, that their success limited success or whatever it might be might be a trend or fatter. So how do you how do you think about the thing that you're building?

对吧？如何让它更具持久力，更有生命力。因为正如我所说，当时人们说裸妆只是一阵风，会过去的。

Right? That into something with more longevity, something that has more staying power. Because as I say, I mean, people people at the time said, oh, this nude makeup thing is just a trend and, you know, it's it'll pass.

没错。人们那么想——我是说，有人评论说，哦，你只是把自己的名字印在包装上。不，我没有。我们不是那样做的，因为我们没有花哨的包装。但我觉得对任何创业者来说，你要审视自己在做的事。

Right. And people thought that, you know I mean, I had comments from people that said, oh, you're just putting your name on some package. No, I'm not. That's not how we're doing it because we didn't have fancy packaging. But I think for anyone that is an entrepreneur and a founder, you look at what you're doing.

是的，它必须不断成长，而不仅仅是变成别的东西。你必须关注现有产品，确保它是最好的。有时需要小修小补，有时要大改，但总要确保它是市场上最好的，这样人们才会回购，会向朋友推荐，会反复购买同样的产品。

And yes, it's gotta constantly not just like grow into something else. You've gotta pay attention to what you have and make sure it's the best. And sometimes you have to make little fixes and sometimes you have to make big fixes, but you always have to make sure that it's the best thing on the market so people will come back for it. People will tell their friends about it. And people will rebuy the same thing over and over again.

但你需要新鲜事物来吸引人们的兴趣。所以，你知道，这就像是在摸索整个生态系统。

But you need new things so people are interested. So it's, you know, it's just kind of figuring out the whole ecosystem.

是啊。好吧，鲍比。你觉得呢？我们接听第一位听众来电吧。

Yeah. Alright, Bobby. What do say? Let's take our first caller.

当然。

Sure.

好的。欢迎拨打咨询热线。您正在与传奇人物鲍比·布朗连线。请告诉我们您的名字、来电地点，并简单介绍一下您的事业。

Alright. Welcome to the advice line. You are on with the legendary Bobby Brown. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just one brief line about your business.

嗨，盖伊。嗨，鲍比。感谢邀请我参与。我是马克·索科洛夫斯基，从伊利诺伊州芝加哥打来。

Hi, Guy. Hi, Bobby. Thanks for having me on. My name is Mark Sokolowski. I'm calling from Chicago, Illinois.

我是Cabbage yay芝加哥的创始人，也是Cabbage Labs的创始人。我们生产一款名为Cab Dab的肌肉关节按摩膏，采用卷心菜叶提取物制成，蕴含卷心菜所有的天然抗炎精华。哇。

I'm the founder of Cabbage yay, Chicago. I'm the founder of Cabbage Labs. We make a muscle and joint rub called Cab Dab. It's made with cabbage leaf extract, and it has all the natural anti inflammatory goodness of cabbage. Wow.

卷心菜含有大量天然抗炎酶。当你压碎卷心菜叶时，就能释放出所有这些有益成分。

Cabbage has a lot of good natural anti inflammatory enzymes in it. And when you crush the cabbage leaf, you get all the goodies out.

这太神奇了。等等，这是一种药膏，一种涂抹剂，能减轻关节疼痛，而且是用卷心菜叶提取物制成的。

That's amazing. So wait. This is a a balm, a a rub that that that reduces joint pain, and it's made from cabbage leaf extract.

没错。

That's right.

你是怎么发现这个的？

How did how did you figure this out?

好的。我是一名骨科医生，我们的诊所主要接待第一代和第二代移民。多年来，病人总说他们在肘部、肩膀或臀部敷卷心菜叶。起初我觉得这很荒谬。但后来年轻患者告诉我，他们锻炼后会用卷心菜叶包裹肌肉来缓解酸痛。

Alright. So I'm an orthopedic surgeon, and we have a practice that's mostly first and second generation immigrants. And for years, patients were like, oh, I just put cabbage leaf wraps on my elbow or on my shoulder or on my hips. And at first I was like, that's crazy. But then younger kids were telling me, oh, after I work out, I do cabbage leaf wraps on my muscles to relieve soreness.

于是我做了些研究，发现确有依据。数据显示卷心菜叶包裹比常规疗法更能有效治疗关节炎，甚至对乳房胀痛等炎症也有效。所以我们想，整天敷菜叶不现实，如何把它做成更方便的产品？

And so I did a little bit of research, looked into it. Turns out it's real. There's actual data that shows that cabbage leaf wraps are more effective than usual care for arthritis and for even for like breast engorgement, any sort of inflammatory condition. And so we said, Okay, it's impractical to put cabbage leaf wraps on all day. How do we put it into something more convenient?

这真是不可思议。顺便问下，你专攻肩部、膝盖还是全身？

Well, this is incredible. By the way, are do you focus on shoulders or knees or everything?

我是脊柱外科医生，但会说波兰语。当波兰患者来看骨科时，他们会说：你是脊柱专家很好，但得负责治好我的膝盖。

I'm a spine surgeon, but I speak Polish. So when the Polish patients come in and they see orthopedic surgeon, they're like, look. It's great that you're a spine surgeon, but you're gonna take care of my knees.

是的，当然。我明白了。这太棒了。所以最初的想法是，嘿。

Yeah. Sure. I gotcha. This is amazing. So what the idea was, hey.

业余时间，我开始制作一款香膏并销售，你知道的，提供给我的病人？

On the side, I'll start making a balm and sell and, you know, offer to my my my patients?

没错。所以我们决定尝试以乳液的形式来做。我说，我对市场营销一窍不通，我打算在每次诊疗结束时免费送给我的病人。如果有效，那很好；如果无效，也没有任何负担或顾虑。

Yeah. So we said, we'll try to do this in a in a lotion form. And I said, I don't know anything about marketing, I'm going to give it for free at the end of every visit to my patients as they come. And if it works, great. If it doesn't work, no obligation, no worries.

就这样，我们自然而然地发展起来。没有任何广告，只是从2021年开始，在每次诊疗结束时送给每位新病人。

And so we've just kind of grown this organically. No advertising, just from giving it out since 2021 to every new patient at the end of a visit.

那生意怎么样？我是说，它赚钱吗？

And how is the business doing? I mean, is it making money? Is it

是的。我们从第一天开始就盈利了。乳液的利润相当不错。我们已经生产了3万支，下一批1万支的订单即将到货。

Yeah. We've been profitable since day one. The margins on lotions are are pretty good. And we've we're 30,000 tubes in, and we have our next order of 10,000 tubes coming.

好的。在我们讨论鲍比的问题之前，你今天有什么想问我们的？

Alright. And before we get to Bobby, your question for us today.

所以我向患者赠送了大量产品，这种医生直接给患者试用装的方式建立在高度信任、无强制义务的基础上。我该如何将这种业务模式规模化，而不必亲自与每位潜在客户互动？

So I give away a ton of product to my patients, and this whole doctor to patient giving the tube is like a high trust, no obligation kind of trial. How do I scale this business beyond me having personal interaction with every potential customer?

Bobby，这太棒了，因为你们有很多相似之处对吧？你曾是化妆师，然后灵光一现——我可以自己制作化妆品。而Mark是骨科医生，

Bobby, this is amazing because you it's there are a lot of parallels. Right? You were a makeup artist, and then you're like, wait. I can make my own makeup. And here, Mark is an orthopedic surgeon.

他也在想：我能研制出对患者有效的药膏吧？我相信你对此一定有很多见解

He's like, I can I can make a balm that I think is gonna be effective for patients? So I'm sure you've got a lot of thoughts

在最初阶段，我送出了很多口红试用装——没有精美包装的那种。人们惊叹道：天啊，这完全不一样，太棒了，

on this, In in the in the very beginning, I gave away lipsticks. Like, not in the fancy packaging and in the testers. And people said, oh my god. This is so different. It's so good.

我想要。于是他们会回头购买。我也曾大量赠送产品，但你现在只面向自己的患者。所以关键问题是：如何让患者群体之外的人知道我？

I want it. And so they would come back. And so, you know, I I gave a lot of product away. You're only giving it to your customers. So your biggest thing now is how do I get other people besides my patients to know about me?

有个古老但免费的小妙招——公关宣传。比如《芝加哥论坛报》刊登关于你的报道（现在还有论坛报或太阳时报吗？管它什么报纸），

This little teeny thing called PR. It's old fashioned. It's free. Someone writes an article about you in the Chicago Tribune. Is there still a Tribune or Sun Times, whatever the papers are?

文章发表后电话立刻被打爆，人们纷纷来电咨询。每个人都想要这个CABG药膏——毕竟谁身上没点疼痛呢？对吧？

They write an article about you and all of a sudden your phone's ringing off the hook. You've got all these people calling. I want this CABG. Everyone has pain in their body. Right?

每个人都有痛苦。我等不及要尝试这个冠状动脉搭桥手术了。我妹妹背痛，她在芝加哥。我需要你的电话号码。

Everyone has pain. I cannot wait to try this CABG. My sister has back pain. She's in Chicago. I need your number.

所以，你得让更多人知道这件事。

So, you've gotta have more people know about this.

你知道吗？顺便说一句，公关可能会花点钱。但是，马克，我认为值得考虑的是，让我拿出1万、1.5万或2万美元，看看能否与当地公关公司签约，让他们把我报道到这些报纸上，因为这个故事太吸引人了。所以

You know? And by the way, PR can cost a little bit of money. But, Mark, I think that it would be worthwhile considering saying, you know, let me let me get let me take $10 or or 15,000 or 20,000 and see if I can contract with a local PR firm that can get me into these papers because this story is so compelling. So

是的。不过我有个更好的主意。我有...对，说吧。每月1万美金确实不错。

Yeah. But not but I I have a better idea. I have a Yeah. Go. The 10,000 a month is great.

但为什么不雇个像瑞士军刀那样多面手的人呢？比如一个能发帖、拍摄、为你制作视频、采访你并上传到Instagram的年轻人。他们还能联系当地报纸，拿到该联系谁的名单并不难。你可以雇个全职的市场营销学生，对吧？找个能干很多事、机灵的人。

But why don't you hire, like, like, a a, like a Swiss army knife, like a kid who can post, shoot, do videos of you, interview you and put you up on Instagram. And they can call the local papers. It's not that hard to get a list of who to call to. You can hire a full time marketing student, right? You can hire someone that could do a bunch of things, someone who's resourceful.

之后你随时可以追加投入。1万美金是笔大数目，可能5000美金也能找到不错的公关公司。

And then you can always take money later. Like 10,000 is a lot of money. You could probably get a good PR firm for 5,000 too.

这倒是真的。

That's true.

这是个好主意。

That's a great idea.

是啊，确实如此。对了，你们赠送的试管有多大？多少盎司？

Yeah. That's true. By the way, how big how big are the tubes you're giving away? How many ounces?

是100毫升装的。我们没有试用装产品，所以直接赠送正装。

They're a 100 milliliter. We we don't have sample products, so we give away the full size product.

看，这也是个问题。你们赠送的量太多了，应该给更小规格的试用装。

See, that's also a problem. You're giving away too much. You gotta give away a smaller version.

我的建议是去The Container Store买些空容器，挤入适量产品做成小样——你觉得人们某个部位需要多少就装多少，然后随身携带。在餐厅或其他场合时，随订购卡片一起发放，附赠10%折扣。这种传统营销方式几乎零成本。

So what I would do is I would go to The Container Store and buy a bunch of empty containers and squeeze and just make, like, little samples, however much you think people need for an area, and then just keep them in your pocket. And when you're at a restaurant or you're whatever, you know, just start handing it out with the card where they can order it. Give them a 10% discount. Like, you know, that old fashioned marketing doesn't really cost anything.

我也认为值得尝试。你肯定参加了专业组织或会议吧？可以重点开发某些群体，比如...虽然不知道你是否认同，但脊椎按摩师就是个渠道。很多人去看脊椎按摩师，且非常信任他们。

I also think that it's worthwhile. And I'm sure you're in professional organizations and maybe you go to conferences. If there's a community that you can kind of bring in, particularly, like, you know, I I know this may or may not, you know, resonate, but chiropractors. A lot of people go to chiropractors. I don't know what you think about them, but a lot of people trust them.

在我看来，这会是天然推广渠道。你可以准备那些小样，当有人访问网站时，提供免运费免费试用之类的优惠。

And and to me, like, that would be a natural channel where you could get you know, maybe you you again, you create these smaller samples, and it's you know, and if somebody goes to the website, they can get a a free trial and you'd pay for shipping or something like that.

是的，这是个好主意。我非常非常确定我们可以扩大分销范围。我们完全可以提供更小包装的样品，这样成本更低，就能大量派送。

Yeah. That's a great idea. I definitely definitely think that we could expand our distribution. We definitely could do smaller samples to make it more economical just to give away lots and lots of them.

Bobby，我有个问题要问你。Mark是个大忙人，明白吗？他是骨科医生，时间肯定很紧张，这只是个副业。

Bobby, I have a question for you. Mark is a very busy guy. Okay? He is an orthopedic surgeon. There's gotta be a lot of demand for his time, and this is a side project.

你以前是化妆师，也很忙。你会怎么建议他开始平衡这些事情？说实话，他大部分收入还是来自外科医生的工作。

You were a makeup artist. You were very busy. How how would you recommend he starts to balance these things out? Because look, let's be honest. Most of his income is coming from being a a surgeon.

拜托，奥兹医生以前还是心脏外科医生呢。所以你知道的，你可以先起步，然后按自己舒适的节奏推进。而且你完全可以在工作时同步处理这些事。

I mean, come on. Doctor Oz was a heart surgeon. Okay? So, you know, you start somewhere and you go whatever pace you're comfortable with. And how could you get things done while you're actually at work?

比如早上和你要雇的那个帮手开个会，晚上再跟进下进度。只要事情在运转，业务就能持续，毕竟有人负责这部分。所以这事完全没必要急着见成效。

Just whether it's a meeting in the morning with who's gonna help you, this kid that you're gonna hire. And and then at the end of the day, you check-in with them. Things are working. The business is continuing because, you know, you have someone to do that. So it's but but there's no rush for for this to kind of take off.

口碑传开后，成功是水到渠成的事。

It's gonna happen, especially the more people that know about it.

对，对，我觉得这主意很棒。

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a great idea.

是的。

Yeah.

我现在就想来个卷心菜浴。对。看吧？昨晚锻炼后今早醒来有点腰痛。没错。

I want to get cabbage bath right now. Yeah. See? Woke up with some lower back pain from doing exercise last night. Yep.

马克·索科洛夫斯基，非常感谢你的来电。产品名叫Cab Dab。祝你好运。恭喜。太棒了。

Mark Sokolowski, thank you so much for calling in. The product's called Cab Dab. Good luck. Congrats. It's awesome.

非常感谢你们邀请我。

Thank you guys very much for having me.

谢谢。你知道吗，我现在在想这玩意儿能不能配酸菜用。比如，能不能把酸菜抹上去。你懂我意思吧？对。

Thank you. You know, I'm now I'm wondering if this will work with sauerkraut. Like, if you can spread sauerkraut. You know what I mean? Yeah.

就盐和卷心菜。

Just salt and cabbage.

就这些。你不会想尝试的。

That's all it is. You wouldn't want to.

不，不是的。我是说，我很喜欢酸菜。

Well, no. I mean, I love sauerkraut.

我知道酸菜对肠道有益，但我不认为你会想把它涂在四肢上。

I know sauerkraut is good for your gut, but I don't think you'd want it on your extremities.

好的。我们稍作休息，马上回来接听下一位听众的电话并继续提供建议。请别走开。我是盖伊·拉兹，您正在收听的是《我是如何打造这一切》实验室的建议热线。如果您最近几期一直在收听节目，可能听我提到过我在主持的Airbnb原创体验活动，我非常期待能以全新的方式与听众们建立联系。

Alright. We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller and another round of advice. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. If you've been listening to the show these last couple of episodes, you've probably heard me mention the Airbnb original experience that I'm hosting, and I'm so excited to have a chance to connect with listeners in a completely new way.

这个活动名为‘重塑实验室’，旨在帮助你思考如何开启职业生涯或人生的下一个重大转变。我将像在节目中采访嘉宾那样，协助你发掘自己的故事。参与者还能与我深入探讨我从节目中汲取的诸多经验——这些经验彻底改变了我的工作方式和对未来的思考。活动所有收益将用于支持罗纳德·麦当劳之家慈善机构，帮助患病儿童的家庭就近住在医院附近。这将非常有趣，我迫不及待想见到你们，快来旧金山加入我吧，让你们的想法更上一层楼。

It's called the Reinvention Lab, and it's designed to help you think about how to unlock your next big move in your career or even in your life. I'll help you discover your own story in ways I do on this show with my guests, And attendees will get a chance to take a deeper dive with me on so many lessons I've learned from this show. Lessons that have transformed how I work and think about the future. All proceeds from the event will go to support the Ronald McDonald Houses that helps families stay near their children who are being treated at nearby hospitals. It's going to be really fun, and I can't wait to meet you, so come join me in San Francisco and take your idea to the next level.

报名请访问airbnb.com/guy。一定会很棒！每天都有新头条猜测AI将如何取代我们的工作，这当然会引发焦虑。但Miro近期调查显示，76%的受访者认为AI能为他们的岗位带来益处。

To grab your spot, visit airbnb.com/guy. It's gonna be great! Every day it feels like there are new headlines speculating about how AI is coming for our jobs. Of course, all of this can be a bit anxiety inducing. But a recent survey from Miro found that 76% of respondents believe that AI can benefit their role.

不过，超半数人表示难以把握使用AI的时机。为此，Miro推出创新工作空间——一个将人类与AI结合以高效完成工作的智能平台。团队可利用Miro AI将便签、截图等非结构化数据，在几分钟内转化为可用的图表、产品简报或原型。我亲身体验过Miro AI，它确实帮助我的团队集中整合了大量创意，使头脑风暴更高效。助力团队成就卓越，尽在Miro。

Still, over half said they struggle to know when to use AI. Enter Miro's Innovation Workspace, an intelligent platform that brings people and AI together to get great work done. Teams can work with Miro AI to turn unstructured data, like sticky notes or screenshots, into usable diagrams or product briefs and prototypes in minutes. I've actually been using Miro AI, and it's really helped my team gather a bunch of ideas together in one place and brainstorm more productively. Help your teams get great done with Miro.

访问miro.com了解详情。网址是mir0.com。用Audible聆听让想象力翱翔。无论您喜好如何，Audible的爱情系列总有一款让您心动。这是您拥有一切的邀请函。

Check out miro.com to find out how. That's mir0.com. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. And no matter what you like, Audible's romance collection has something to make you swoon. Here's your invitation to have it all.

在都市里寻觅一位书中男友，或在冰球场上邂逅另一位。若尘世万物皆未能触动你心，不妨去异界探寻真爱。聆听莉莉·楚和阿里·哈泽尔伍德等作家的现代浪漫喜剧，萨拉·J·玛斯和丽贝卡·亚罗斯最新的浪漫系列，以及《布里奇顿》《外乡人》等摄政时期经典。而这仅仅是开始。Audible拥有超过100万部有声书、播客及原创内容的惊人选集，尽在一款便捷应用中。

Find a book boyfriend in the city and another on the hockey field. Or if nothing on this earth touches your heart, you can always find love in another realm. Hear modern rom coms from authors like Lily Chu and Ali Hazelwood, the latest romanticy series from Sarah j Maas and Rebecca Yaros, and Regency favorites like Bridgerton and Outlander. And that's only the beginning. Audible has an incredible selection with over 1,000,000 audiobooks, podcasts, and Audible originals all in one easy app.

你可以随时随地享受Audible，无论是做家务、锻炼、通勤，应有尽有。Audible让你在日常琐事中轻松沉浸幻想，无需额外腾出时间。倾听让想象更丰富。注册30天免费试用，你的第一段伟大爱情故事将免费开启。

And you can enjoy Audible anytime while doing other things. Household chores, exercising on the road, commuting, you name it. Audible makes it easy to drop into your fantasies during your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time. There's more to imagine when you listen. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free thirty day Audible trial.

访问audible.com/built。欢迎回到《我是如何打造这个实验室》的咨询热线。我是盖伊·拉兹，今天的嘉宾是传奇人物鲍比·布朗，鲍比·布朗化妆品和琼斯之路美容品牌的创始人。我们已准备好接听下一位来电者。你好，来电者。

Visit audible.com/built. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is the legendary Bobby Brown, founder of Bobby Brown Cosmetics and Jones Road Beauty. And we are ready for our next caller. Hello, caller.

嗨，鲍比。嗨，盖伊。我是你们两位的超级粉丝，非常感谢邀请我。我是艾比·罗萨利尔。

Hi, Bobby. Hi, Guy. I'm such a fan of both of you guys. Thank you so much for having me. I'm Abby Rosalier.

我从德克萨斯州达拉斯打来电话。我是Abby Rose的创始人兼所有者，基本上是一家在线定制手机壳企业。我们的标语是：你可以把任何图案印在手机壳上。我们不仅制作定制手机壳，还创造了世界上首款手机壳收纳器。所以

I'm calling from Dallas, Texas. And I'm the founder and owner of Abby Rose, which is basically an online custom phone case business. So we do you can put anything on a phone case pretty much is our tagline. So we do custom phone cases, and we even created the first phone case organizer that the world has seen. So

哇。手机...感谢来电，艾比。请告诉我你...我...你看上去是位非常年轻的企业家，这太棒了，我很欣赏。你介意分享一下年龄吗？

Wow. Phone thank you for calling in, Abby. Tell me how you and I'm I'm I mean, you seem like you're pretty young entrepreneur, which is awesome. I love that. But do you mind sharing how old you are?

好的。我23岁。16岁创办这家公司，现在23岁了。

Yeah. I'm 23. So I started it when I was 16, and now I'm 23.

我知道。恭喜啊。太棒了。快告诉我这是怎么开始的。

I know. Congrats. That's awesome. How do tell me how how this started.

是啊。这个故事其实是由零碎片段组成的，因为我从五年级就开始做些小生意。比如卖彩色胶带徽章，给别人的充电器贴亮片。但这些都只持续一个月，因为我只卖给学校朋友，然后就腻了。

Yeah. It's there's kind of bits and pieces to the story because I had little small businesses since, like, fifth grade. It'd be like duct tape pins. I would sparkle people's chargers. But they would all just last a month because I would just sell it to my school friends and then get over it.

八年级时我真的卖过手机壳，赚了一千美元，后来没兴趣了。高中时因为要练杂技体操在家自学，又燃起销售欲，正好有手机壳存货，就重新开始做，结果疫情期间突然爆火，就这样了。就像...等等

So I actually sold phone cases in eighth grade, made a thousand bucks, got over it. And then in high school, I had to be homeschooled for my sport, acrobatic gymnastics, got the itch to sell again, had the phone case supplies, started it, blew up during COVID, and here we are. It's like Wait.

哇哦。等等，让我确认下。杂技体操是你的专项运动对吧？是的。

Wow. So wait. Just just double click for a minute. Acrobatic gymnastics, that was your sport. So Yes.

是那种高空秋千飞来飞去的那种吗？具体是什么？

Is that like like trapeze and flying off like, what is that?

我懂。大家总联想到马戏团和小丑，但其实更像是啦啦队和体操的结合。这是项双人运动，需要抛接搭档，

I know. Everyone thinks just like circus and clowns almost, but it's it's like a mix of cheer and gymnastics. So it's partner based sports. You throw them, you catch them,

但需要两个人还是

but it's with two or

三个人而非整个团队

three people instead of a whole

啦啦队。

cheer team.

是啊，这就像创业一样。

Yeah. It's it's like being an entrepreneur.

对，差不多就是这样。嗯。是的。所以

Yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. So so

你不得不接受家庭教育，因为你是一名竞技体操运动员。没错。我们就是在那时创办了这家公司。

you had to be homeschooled because you were a competitive acrobatic gymnast. Yes. We And that's when you started this business.

是的，艾比·罗斯。嗯。我们不得不——实际上我在高中三年级中途被迫离开学校，因为我们需要每天训练两次。所以我只能转为家庭教育。

Yes. Abby Rose. Yeah. We had to I actually got pulled from the middle of my junior year because we had to do two practices a day. So I had to go homeschooled.

就在那时，我萌生了创办艾比·罗斯的念头，

And, yeah, that's when I had the idea for Abby Rose and just

那么最初你们是怎么操作的，你们订购定制手机壳后，是与第三方合作生产吗？具体流程是怎样的？

And so what you were initially, what you were buying, you people would order the custom cases and then you would work with a third party and have them made? Like, how did it work?

是的。一开始并不是定制业务。其实我最初只是画些设计图——虽然我设计很糟糕，但没人愿意帮我设计，毕竟我当时才16岁，对自己在做什么毫无概念。所以我就先向学校朋友和杂技圈朋友出售基础款设计，然后用热转印技术把图案压印到手机壳上。

Yeah. So it didn't start as customized. I kinda just well, I actually started drawing designs. I'm horrible at designing, but nobody would design for me because I was just 16 not knowing what I would what I was doing. So I started just selling basic designs to my school friends and to my acro friends, and I would heat press the design onto the phone case.

就是用升华墨水热转印图案，然后手机壳就制作完成了。虽然流程有点复杂，不过...

So you heat press the design with sublimation ink, and then the phone case is made. It's a little complex, but,

对，大致就是这么个流程。最早你们是自己手工定制对吧？是的。现在呢...明白了。

yeah, that's kinda how works. Custom you would custom make them originally Yes. Yourself? Yes. And now and alright.

跟我说说生意发展情况吧，让我了解下你们现在的规模。

And tell me how the business is doing that. Give me a sort of a sense of where you are.

好的。发展速度简直疯狂，特别是去年我刚大学毕业，业绩比前年增长了50%。所有手机壳至今仍由我姐姐手工制作，我负责市场营销、客服和直播，妈妈、姐姐、爸爸和弟弟也参与其中。这完全是个家族企业，而且我们刚收购了供应商。

Yeah. So it has been going crazy, specifically this past year because I just graduated from college and we've seen, like, a 50% growth from last year. All the phone cases are still being handmade actually by my sister. I just do the marketing, the customer service, the live streams, and then my mom is also involved, sister, my dad, and my brother. It's kind of all just like this family run business, and we actually just purchased our supplier.

所以整体来说，情况相当不错。

So, like, things are Yeah.

哇，这么说你们已经突破百万美元销售额了？

Wow. So and so as you are you have you guys broken a million dollars in sales?

不是一年内。我们总销售额已经超过200万美元。

Not in one year. We've done over 2,000,000 in total.

太棒了。好吧。但你们每年轻松突破1.021亿美元。

Yeah. No. That's awesome. Okay. But you've easily you've broken a $102,100,000 dollars a year.

噢，那当然。

Oh, for sure.

是啊。

Yeah.

厉害。那你们的主要销售渠道是通过社交媒体吧？比如直播带货之类的。

Awesome. And and most of what you're doing, most of your sort of channel is through social media, like going, doing doing things live or whatever on

没错。直播销售、直播发货，所有环节都是实时进行的。

Yes. Yes. Going live, selling live, shipping live, everything is live.

你有多少粉丝？

How how many followers do you have?

TikTok是我们最强的平台。实际上几天前刚突破40万，因为有一个视频爆了，然后Instagram上大约有11.1万。是的。

TikTok is our strongest one. We actually just hit 400,000 a few days ago because we have one blowing up, and then, like, a 111,000 on Instagram. So Yep.

好的。在请Bobby Brown进来之前，先告诉我们哪些问题是问我们的。

Alright. Before we bring Bobby Brown in, just tell us which question is for us.

是的。基本上，我们所有的增长都来自有机社交媒体，这很棒，但一直是这种稳定的线性增长。为了维持下去并养活全家人，我们需要很快实现更爆炸性的增长。所以我的问题是，我们是应该加倍投入目前有效的方式，继续直播和内容创作，还是尝试批发或付费广告，因为我们之前没怎么做过这些。

Yes. So, basically, all of our growth has been organic social media and that's been great, but it's been this steady linear growth. And in order to keep this going and support my whole family, we need to have more of an explosive growth soon. So my question is if we just double down on what's working, keep up the lives and the content, or if we look into wholesale or paid advertising because we haven't really done that before. So yeah.

你希望把业务规模扩大到五百万美元甚至更多。Bobby Brown？当然。你觉得呢？

You're trying to scale to a five, hopefully, greater million dollar business. Bobby Brown? Absolutely. Yeah. What do you think?

首先，你现在的做法是有效的。为什么每个人都觉得生意必须像火箭一样飙升？它需要增长，但有时候如果发展得太爆炸性太大，比如我们经历过TikTok爆红的时刻，根本跟不上节奏。然后一年后你会想，我们该怎么纪念这个日子？

Well, first of all, what you're doing is working. And not everything why does everyone think every business has to be like a rocket ship? It's got it's gotta grow, but but it's also sometimes if things are so explosive and big, like, you know, we've we've had TikTok moments that are like, you know, like, we could not keep up with it. It happened. And then you look a year later and you're like, how are we gonna anniversary that?

所以我不会纠结于如何制造下一个爆款。不如审视业务：哪些有效，哪些无效？哪些方面不需要投入这么多资金或时间？

So that's I'm not gonna worry and figure out what else can I do to go viral? No. Let's look at the business. What's working, what's not working? What what do I not need to be spending as much money on or time on?

你在社交媒体上取得了巨大成功。那么，你有没有尝试过Substack？做过YouTube吗？你知道，还有其他可以做的事情。比如，你有没有参与其他公司的赠品活动和合作？

You have a big success on social. And, I mean, have you done a a a substack? Have you done YouTube? You know, there's other things you could do. Are you doing, like, other company giveaways and collabs?

这其实是件好事。

Like, that's a good thing.

是的。所有这些事情结合起来一直支撑着我们前进。我们喜欢与其他公司合作，热爱社交媒体。我还开通了自己的YouTube频道。

Yeah. It's like all of those things together have been keeping us going. We love doing collabs with other companies. We love social media. I started up my YouTube channel.

但我想目前我们最大的困境是，如果我不在线，销量就上不来。所以几乎需要我时刻保持在线状态，才能维持销售。

But it it's I guess our biggest struggle right now is if, like, if I'm not online, like, sales aren't coming in. So it's almost like my presence has to, like, constantly be online for sales to keep

继续。确实不容易。是的，这真的很艰难。

going. Tough. Yeah. It's just tough.

没错。我必须持续制作视频，才能为你带来销量。哦，

Yeah. I have to constantly be making videos in order for in order for you to get sales. Oh,

完全正确。或者干脆直播，因为顾客想实时看到自己的订单。他们想听到收银的叮当声，拿到赠品，你懂吧？

absolutely. Or just live because they wanna see their order live. They wanna hear the cha ching and get their freebie, you know?

那么，你已经启动了一个行之有效的项目。你不能就此放弃。如何让它发展壮大呢？或许可以让你妹妹加入，或者邀请一位朋友之类的嘉宾，尝试做些实验性的调整。

So Well, you started something that's working. You can't walk away from it. How do you evolve it? Maybe you bring your sister in or you bring a guest, you know, friend or something and just try to experiment.

嗯。

Mhmm.

而且，你要想办法，比如不一定非得直播。我知道有办法可以录制成直播效果，或者采取其他变通方案。但你真的想涉足零售业吗？那完全是另一堆麻烦事。听起来很美好——

And, you know, figure out a way, like, maybe it doesn't have to be live. I know there's a way you could tape it to be live or there's different things that you could that you could do. But do you really wanna be in retail? That is a whole another set of of problems and issues. It sounds great.

成本实在太高了。真的，开销非常大。明白吗？

It's really expensive. Yeah. Like, it's really expensive. You know?

这正是我们的疑虑，因为所有竞争对手似乎都在这样做。他们会进驻Urban Outfitters，会入驻Target。所以我们犹豫是该跟随潮流，还是另辟蹊径？

That's what we're wondering because it seems like that's what all of our competitors are doing. You know, they'll they'll be in Urban, they'll be in Target. So it's like, do we follow that or do we, you know?

可以尝试快闪店模式，或者像Target和沃尔玛那样——它们有为新兴品牌和创始人提供的优质孵化计划。你可以先小规模试水，看看是否合适，但总得亲自尝试这些途径。

Could try as a pop up or it's like Target and and I guess Walmart has these great incubator programs for young brands and founders. And, you know, there's a way you could, like, dip your toe into it as a test and see if it's something, but you you've gotta go try those things out.

我认为这个建议很棒。刚才你们中有人提到——艾比，你说了Urban Outfitters，在我看来那确实是个天然的试验场。但我想回到你们当前面临的挑战：目前最大的销售渠道就是你自己，而个人的精力是有限的。对吧？你不可能复制出百万个艾比，但或许——

I think that's great advice. And I so one of you mentioned, think, Abby, you mentioned Urban Outfitters, which to me seems like a natural place to try and experiment. But I I wanna go back to this challenge that you face, which is right now your biggest channel is you, and you can't scale you. Right? You can't make a million Abby's, but maybe you can.

我有个问题想问，就是你能展示艾比·罗斯的其他形象吗？能不能引入其他人，培训他们成为销售代表并给予佣金？我的意思是，你有没有考虑过或尝试过这种做法？

And that's that's a question I have, which is can you feature other faces of Abby Rose? Can you bring in other people and train them to be sales reps with a commission? I mean, is that something that you've thought about or experimented with?

老实说，没有。不过这是个很棒的主意。我觉得当涉及到自己的事业时总会犹豫，就像对待自己的孩子一样，让别人来扮演你的角色确实挺吓人的。所以我需要克服这种心理障碍。

Honestly, no. That's a great idea, though. I think I it's always hesitant when it's your business. It's like your baby and, you know, just someone else doing the role you do is scary. So I just need to get over that.

但我认为这个主意很棒，就是找些活泼有活力的人

But I think that's a great idea, just finding, like, bubbly, energetic

试一次就好。就试一次看看效果。看你是否喜欢，看是否可行。

Try it once. Try it once and just do it once. See if you like it. See if it works.

而且用你的账号对吧？让那个人登录你的账号说：'嗨，今天由我来值班。艾比正在Urban Outfitters做快闪店活动，我来给大家介绍...'类似这样的话。

And using your accounts. Right? Go having the person go on your account and say, hey. I'm here today. Abby, you know, is out at Urban Outfitters doing a pop up, and I'm gonna tell you know, something like that.

或者让你妈妈或爸爸来。比如用你的家人。嗯。你知道的，用任何身边的人——隔壁邻居、奶奶、老师都可以。人们就喜欢这种真实感，而不是刻意模仿别人。

Or your mother or your father. Like, use your family. Like Mhmm. You know, use your whatever, your next door neighbor, your grandma, your teacher. Like, people love that instead of trying to be like everybody else.

关键是你觉得舒服的独特之处是什么？嗯。这不需要什么宏大的战略，你只要尝试后可能会惊呼：天啊，效果太棒了。

Like, what's unique about you that's comfortable for you? Mhmm. And and it doesn't have to be a big strategic anything. You just try it and say, oh my god. That's great.

而且这可能行不通。

And it might not work.

是啊。他们认识所有家人，知道玫瑰爸爸和玫瑰妈妈。所以我从没想过，比如，只和他们试试看，你懂吧，如果我是的话。嗯。

Yeah. And they know all the family. They know Papa Rose and Mama Rose. And so I guess I've just never thought, like, let's try one with just them, you know, if I'm Yeah. Mhmm.

艾比，你的客户群体是谁？主要是年轻女性吗？

Who are your customers, Abby? Are they mainly young women?

你知道吗？大学毕业后我对这个有了新认识。原本以为是高中生和大学生为主，但实际上发现很多用户是全职妈妈。我说的就是这个群体。很棒对吧。直播时很多观众都是带娃的全职妈妈，她们想寻找一个社群。

You know what? I've learned a lot about this since graduating college because I thought it was typically, you know, high school and college students, but I've actually realized a lot of people are stay at home moms. That's what I'm talking Awesome. Yeah. So on lives, a lot of them are stay at home moms, you know, like watching their kids and just wanting, like, a community.

所以客户年龄跨度从中学生、高中生、大学生到全职妈妈都有，都是寻求交友和社群的年轻女性。

So it's anywhere from, like, middle school, high school, college, stay at home, just young females looking for friends and a community. So

没错，继续壮大你的社群。我超爱那个能装三支唇彩的手机壳设计。

Yeah. Keep building your community. I love the phone that holds the three lip glosses.

噢，确实。

Oh, yeah.

看那个。

Look at that.

太酷了。对吧？我我嗯。我我本来想，你知道的，我想深入探讨这个。我就觉得，好吧。

That's so cool. Right? I I yeah. I I wanted, you know, I wanted to go deeper in that. I'm like, okay.

你知道吗？我在想，我们要推出一些新的唇彩

You know? I'm like, we're launching some new lip glosses

接下来

next

年。

year.

让我

Let me

去看看。

go look at it.

停下，那是我的梦想。

Stop. That's my dream.

是啊，谁能想到手机壳里还能装唇彩呢？可能性真是无穷无尽。

Yeah. I mean, who knew that you would you could carry lip glosses in your phone case? I mean, there's possibilities are endless.

哦对，我们刚拿到那个原型样品时，我就觉得——哇，太棒了。

Oh, yeah. We just got that prototype in, and I was like, oh, yeah.

艾比，我有个小问题想问你。你刚才提到妈妈群体很酷，嗯...你们尝试过用户生成内容吗？比如让用户发布设计稿，或者举办'设计梦想手机壳'活动，获胜者可以和我实时直播制作成品？

I I have a quick quick question for you, Abby. Do you because you mentioned sort of moms, which is super cool. Mhmm. Have you tried any, like, user generated content, like, you know, every post your, you know, your design or or maybe design your dream case and and the the winner will get to make it with me live, you know, in real time or something?

我们办过客户设计比赛收集投稿，但还没试过和获胜者实时互动。这个点子确实很棒，非常棒。

Yeah. We've done design contest with our customers where they send in their submissions, but never really interacting, like, live with the winners. So that's a really good idea for that. Yeah. Yeah.

绝妙的主意。

That's a great idea.

我想看20种不同风格的艾比玫瑰设计——当然不是指你本人。让不同用户参与进来，这样就能逐步搭建销售团队了。

I wanna see, like, 20 different Abby Roses. Like, not obviously Abby Rose, but Yeah. Toward, like, different people just coming on and, you know, that's how you build your sales team.

是的，听起来太棒了，光是想到这个就已经让我如释重负。所以，我完全同意。

Yes. That sounds amazing and a weight is already lifted off my shoulders just thinking about that. So, yeah, I agree.

Bobby，我很好奇，因为化妆品行业，你知道，人们总说这是个竞争激烈的市场。但我不这么认为。我觉得好产品总能脱颖而出，对吧？一款优质、设计精良且营销得当的产品——这方面你比任何人都更懂。

Bobby, I'm curious in a because cosmetics, you know, this is like one of those things where people say, oh, the cosmetics industry is such a crowded marketplace. But I don't believe in that. I think a good product can always break through. Right? A good product, a well designed product, and and and well marketed, and you know that better than anybody else.

你创立Bobby Brown的时候，人们也这么说过吧？

When you started Bobby Brown, people said that. Right?

这个世界不需要再多一款口红了。绝对如此。人们总这么说。而我一直强调：我没有发明口红，而是重新定义了它。

The the world doesn't need another lipstick. Absolutely. People said that all the time. And, you And I always say, I didn't invent lipstick. I reinvented it.

这和你的手机壳是同样道理。你并非发明了手机壳，但你最大的挑战是如何让人们知道你的手机壳更酷、更有趣、更优质。你得展示给他们看。

So it's the same thing with your phone cases. It's like you didn't invent a phone case, but your biggest challenge is also how do you make sure that people know that your phone case is cooler, more fun, and better. You know, you have to show them.

没错。嗯。Abby，祝你好运。Rose就是品牌本身。

Yeah. Mhmm. Abby, good luck. You. Rose is the brand.

恭喜。感谢来电。

Congrats. Thanks for calling in.

谢谢大家。非常感谢。

Thank you, guys. Thank you.

再见。祝你好运。谢谢。

Bye. Good luck. Thank you.

是的，这很有趣，因为你知道，我敢肯定你也有过这种经历，Bobby，当我看到像这样的产品时，我在想，好吧。这主要是由十几岁的女孩、大学生、年轻女性驱动的。但实际上，是妈妈们。对吧？

Yeah. I it's interesting because, you know, I you you think like and I'm sure you've had this experience too, Bobby, where I look at a product like this, and I'm thinking, okay. This is driven by sort of teenage girls, you know, college students, young women. But, actually, it's it's moms. Right?

是那些可能三十多岁、四十多岁甚至更年长的妈妈们。这有点像，你知道，我们几周前在节目里做了一期关于Crumble Cookies的内容，那个品牌最初是由每周对口味上新超级兴奋的十几岁女孩们推动的，现在依然如此。所以我敢肯定你也见过这种情况，你的一些产品会突然在某个特定人群中火起来。

It's moms probably in their thirties, forties, older. It it's a little bit like, you know, you we did an episode of the show a couple weeks ago about crumble cookies, and that brand was really propelled and still is by teenage girls who are super psyched about the the drop, you know, the flavor drop every week. So I'm sure you've seen this with your, you know, your products where where some some things you make are just take off with, like, a certain demographic.

而且出乎意料。我是说，当Jones Road刚推出时，购买产品的多是40岁左右的女性。而现在越来越多，我想是千禧一代也开始买了。经常有人问我，如何针对不同年龄段进行营销？

And and surprisingly so. I mean, when when Jones Road first launched, you know, there was women 40 that were buying the products. You know? And now there's more and more, you know, like, I guess the millennials are buying it. I've been asked many times, how do you market to all the different age groups?

我说，不要针对不同年龄段营销。我只面向那些想要看起来自然又漂亮的女性。

And I say, don't market to the different age groups. I just market to women that wanna look natural and pretty.

是啊。这太酷了。

Yeah. It's so cool.

我是说，你知道，与客户建立联系是最重要的事。没错，拥有优质产品固然关键，但更重要的是与客户保持连接。听起来她正在这条路上前进。

I mean, you know, connecting with your customer is the most important thing. Yes. To have a great product is is the most important, but then connecting with your customer. And it sounds like she's on her way.

好的。我们将短暂休息片刻，稍后继续接听下一位听众来电。请别走开。我是盖伊·拉兹，您正在收听的是《我是如何打造这一切》实验室的热线建议环节。现在插播一条我们最喜爱的赞助商Vital Proteins的广告。

Alright. We're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab. Now a quick break, switching topics to one of our favorite sponsors, Vital Proteins.

Vital Proteins是美国排名第一的胶原蛋白肽品牌。每日补充胶原蛋白肽有助于维持头发、皮肤、指甲、骨骼和关节健康。现在您可以尝试Vital Proteins新推出的胶原蛋白奶昔，它将胶原蛋白的所有功效融入即饮巧克力蛋白奶昔中。含30克蛋白质，对头发、皮肤、指甲和关节健康大有裨益。

Vital Proteins is the number one brand of collagen peptides in The US. By taking collagen peptides every day, you can help support your hair, skin, nail, bone and joint health. And now you can try Vital Protein's new collagen and protein shake. It has all the benefits of collagen in a ready to drink chocolate protein shake. With 30 grams of protein, it's great for healthy hair, skin, nails, and joints.

特别适合我忙碌时饮用。健身时喝，锻炼后也喝。口感美味，巧克力风味绝佳。我强烈推荐。

And it's perfect when I'm on the go. I use it at the gym. I use it after a workout. It's delicious, and the chocolate flavor is awesome. I highly recommend it.

访问www.vitalproteins.com了解更多信息及购买渠道。结账时输入优惠码BUILT可享下次订单八折优惠。若您正在创业，定知其中大小挑战无数。看看《我是如何打造这一切》节目就知道，制作这档节目经历了重重考验。

Go to www.vitalproteins.com to learn more and where to buy. Get 20% off your next order by entering promo code BUILT at checkout. If you've started your own business, you know just how many challenges there are, big and small. I mean, look at how I built this. Building this show came with a lot of trials.

无数深夜与凌晨。但尽管创业初期困难重重，有件事能让新事业开展得更轻松——那就是选择AT&T商务服务。无论您经营何种业务，AT&T商务服务都能显著降低运营难度。

Late nights, very, very early mornings. But even though there were challenges getting started, there is something that makes setting up a new business easier. Getting connected with AT and T Business. It doesn't matter what your business is dealing with. AT and T Business helps to make it much, much easier.

这正是服务提供商存在的意义——让您更轻松地实现梦想。登录business.att.com体验AT&T商务服务的强大功能。网址business.att.com。欢迎回到《我是如何打造这一切》实验室的热线环节，我是盖伊·拉兹，今天我将与鲍比·布朗一起接听您的来电。

And that's the point of a provider in the first place, making building your dream easier. Wake up to the power of AT and T Business at business.att.com. That's business.att.com. Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab. I'm Guy Raz, and today I'm taking your calls with the Bobby Brown.

Bobby，你怎么说？准备好接入下一位来电听众了吗？

Bobby, what do you say? You ready to bring in our next caller?

我准备好了。

I'm ready.

欢迎拨打咨询热线，您正在与Bobby Brown连线。请告诉我们您的姓名、所在地以及简单介绍一下您的事业。

Welcome to the advice line you are on with Bobby Brown. Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.

当然。嘿，Guy和Bobby，你们好啊！很高兴认识你们。我是来自北卡罗来纳州夏洛特的Henry，Tanen口腔护理公司的联合创始人。我们是一家以生活方式为核心、健康为基础的口腔护理企业，发明了全球首款咖啡后漱口水。

Of course. What's going on, guy and Bobby? Great to, great to meet you guys. I'm calling in from Charlotte, North Carolina, and my name is Henry. I'm the cofounder of Tanen Oral Care, which is a lifestyle centered wellness based oral care company, and we are the inventors of the world's first post coffee mouth rinse.

欢迎。等等，这是口腔护理产品？咖啡后什么来着？再详细说说这个产品吧。

Welcome. So wait. This is a oral care. So it's post coffee what? Tell tell me a little bit more about this this product.

没错，这是一款咖啡后漱口水。不知道你们——现场有咖啡爱好者吗？Guy、Bobby，你们俩都喝咖啡吧？

Yeah. So it's a post coffee mouth rinse. So you know that do we have a any coffee drinkers? I mean, Guy, Bobby, you guys both drink coffee. Yeah.

超爱咖啡。

Love coffee.

两只手举起来了，这画面真美。咖啡刚喝完那一刻，正是我们最初设计这款产品的初衷。当时我在咖啡店工作，拍摄视频时总会带着这把牙刷去店里——这既有点恶心。

Two hands raised. It's beautiful. It's that moment right after coffee is really what we originally designed this product for. I was working at a coffee shop at the time making videos. I would bring this toothbrush to to the coffee shop, which was both gross.

后来我了解到，喝完咖啡后最好等三十分钟再刷牙，因为咖啡的酸性会暂时软化牙釉质。当我开始寻找解决方案时，惊讶地发现竟没有人为咖啡爱好者设计过口腔护理产品——我的口腔特别敏感。那时我和室友乔住在一起，我们对此着了迷，先是跑到夏洛特最繁华的街区随机采访路人：'你们也有这个困扰吗？喝完咖啡后会清洁口腔吗？'

Also I learned that, it's actually best to wait thirty minutes after your last sip to brush your teeth because you can actually wear your enamel that has just been softened by the acid from the coffee. And so I started looking for a solution and was just amazed that no one had ever made anything oral care related for coffee drinkers, very sensitive in my mouth. I was living with my roommate at the time, his name is Joe, we just got fascinated by this. We started by one, like posting up in a super busy part of Charlotte and just asking people like, are you having this problem too? Like, do you do to clean your mouth after coffee?

我们意识到这是人们潜意识里渴望解决却未曾深究的问题。当然，我们自己也迫切想要这个解决方案。

And realizing that it was just one of those things that people were thinking about without really thinking about it, something that they wanted a solution for. And we selfishly also wanted that solution. Yeah.

口腔护理，是指漱口水那种产品吗？

Oral care, is that the same as a mouthwash?

漱口水其实是...这个问题稍后会详细讨论。我们最初想为咖啡爱好者重新设计一款完美漱口水，于是搜罗了市面上所有漱口水，把成分录入电子表格进行研究。震惊地发现——或许你们也听说过——很多漱口水其实危害健康，含有人工合成成分、色素和酒精基底，反而会加剧口腔干燥。近年来关于口腔微生物组的研究突飞猛进，但市面产品却远远落后于这些科学发现。

So the mouthwash is really, this is kind of, and we'll get into this in a question, I guess, but we started by looking we wanted to to to reengineer a mouthwash that would be perfect for coffee drinkers. And so we went and got every mouthwash from the shelves, pulled it off, put ingredients into massive spreadsheet and started researching these ingredients. And we were pretty flabbergasted to learn that, and maybe you guys have heard this, that a lot of mouthwash is actually horrible for your health. It's packed with synthetic ingredients, dyes, it's alcohol based, it actually dries out your mouth even more. And we've just learned so much about the oral microbiome, about oral care in recent years, that it was one of those things where where we just felt like there hadn't been a product that had caught up with the with the research.

你的专业背景是？比如化学或科学相关领域？

How what is your back? Do you have a background in, like, chemistry or science? Or?

并没有。我天生就是创业者，但对口腔护理的痴迷贯穿一生。就像所有精彩故事都始于童年阴影——八岁那次补了四颗蛀牙回家，被兄弟们嘲笑了整整一周，从那天起我就发誓...

So not not I don't. I've definitely been an entrepreneur my whole life, but I I would say my fascination with oral care has carried me through my entire life. I think it you know, like all good stories, probably started with some childhood trauma. I think I came home from the dentist when I was eight, and and I had four cavities, and my brothers just made so much fun of me. So I swore from that day.

我当时就想，好吧，我绝不能再有蛀牙了。从那以后我就特别注重口腔护理，刷牙、用牙线清洁，按照牙医的建议做了一切，但还是有问题。这也促使我开始关注咖啡，觉得这确实是关键所在。

I'm like, okay. I'm never getting another cavity. And so I've just been very aware of my oral care ever since, and I've I've been doing the brushing, the flossing, everything that I feel like the dentists are telling me, but still having issues. And that's kinda what one of the things that too led me to look at coffee and be like, okay. This is this is the real thing.

就像，这确实产生了实际影响。

Like, this is actually having a real impact.

那你是怎么开始制作这个产品的？我是说，配方是怎么构思出来的？

And how did you start to make this product? I mean, how did you start to come up with the formulation?

是的。说起来很幸运，我认识几位牙医。我们会和他们见面讨论，我和朋友乔甚至从亚马逊买了一套化学实验设备。我还联系了高中化学老师，我们就开始调配实验。深入研究天然成分，分析漱口水的成分，但重点是找出真正有效的部分。

Yeah. I mean, it started I thankfully had some dentists in my network. We would meet with them, and me and my friend Joe literally ordered a chemistry set off of Amazon. And I would meet with my high school chemistry teacher, and we would just start mixing. And just start like, I mean, getting deep into the research of natural ingredients, what is what is in these mouthwashes, but like what is actually working?

我一直很认同鲍比重新定义口红的故事。虽然没人说我们需要另一种漱口水，但我们想做的就是彻底从头开始。你真正想要的漱口水应该包含哪些成分，才能让它尽可能有效？

And I think I've always connected with Bobby's story, that idea of reinventing lipstick. It's like people didn't say that we needed another mouthwash, but I think what we wanted to do was really just start from square one. What do you what do you want in a mouthwash that's really gonna make it as, as effective as possible?

好的。先说说你的问题，然后我们再深入探讨。

Alright. Tell me tell us your question, then we'll dive in a little bit deeper.

现在我们在夏洛特本地已经小有名气，人们都知道我们是做咖啡漱口水的。但我们想打造的是一个能重新定义口腔护理、具有持久影响力的经典品牌。所以想请教您，该如何定位才能朝着这个目标持续发展。

We're at this point where people know us, and we've taken a very localized approach in Charlotte. People really know us in the city as the coffee mouth rinse. But what we wanna create is a brand, like a legacy brand that can really redefine and and have staying power as as an oral care brand. So I wanted to get your thoughts on how you would recommend we move forward to position ourselves in that way and continue to work towards that.

好的。有很多内容要深入探讨。鲍比？

All right. A lot to dive into. Bobby?

嗯，我有个问题。一看到你们的包装我就想说，我非常喜欢你们的Instagram。非常酷。你们俩看起来都很酷，我喜欢这种氛围。但我丈夫是个漱口水用户，现在改用天然漱口水，他不喝咖啡。

Well, have a question. As soon as I saw your package I mean, I love your Instagram. It's very cool. You guys are both, you know, like, cool looking, and I I love the vibe. But my husband who is a mouthwash guy, who's now using natural mouthwash, he's not a coffee drinker.

而且他讨厌咖啡。所以即使我给他买了你们这款标着咖啡的漱口水，他也会说，恶心。对吧。那么这和普通漱口水有什么区别？有没有可能，你们打算如何定位另一款不一定与咖啡绑定的漱口水？

And he hates coffee. So even if I bought him your mouthwash that said coffee on it, he'd say, yuck. Right. So what is the difference between that and a regular one? And is there a way and how are you gonna position another mouthwash that's not necessarily tied to coffee?

是的。这是个很好的问题。就像我说的，我们最初是想做这款咖啡漱口水，但在这个过程中，我们可能无意间创造了市场上最好的天然漱口水，谦虚地说。我真的认为我们做到了。所以这也是我现在纠结的地方。

Yeah. It's a great question. So I I think, like I said, we set out to make this coffee mouthwash, and I think we, in the process, created the best natural mouthwash on the market, humbly. Like, I I just I really do think we've done that. And so I think that's what we're what I'm struggling with.

比如，我们是应该扩大定位，说它适合咖啡、红酒和茶？任何时刻，你可能在间隙中需要它。还是应该坚持专注于咖啡，因为显然有些人非常认同咖啡的故事？

Like, do we expand the niche and we say it's great for coffee, wine, and tea? In any moment, you may need it in between. Or do we really stay niche down to coffee because there is obviously people that really connect with that story of coffee?

我认为，这只是我的个人看法，当你达到某个阶段时，你会说，是的，我们要重新设计包装。然后重新构思营销。它最初是为咖啡设计的，但我们发现即使你不喝咖啡，它也有这样的效果。如果你是红酒爱好者，或者只是有时胃部不适的人，也可以用一点漱口水。所以这是我的建议，因为我觉得只做咖啡主题真的很酷也很独特，但我认为有机会可以扩展。

I think my opinion, and it's only my opinion, is when you reach a certain point and you say, Yes, we're gonna reimagine the packaging. And then you reimagine the marketing. It started as for coffee, but we've learned that even if you're not a coffee drinker, it's this. If you're a wine drinker or you're just someone that people that have stomach issues sometimes could use a little bit of mouthwash. So that would be my suggestion because I think just doing the coffee thing is really cool and different, but I think there's an opportunity to to expand that.

我完全同意。我是说，现在如果你看瓶子，我正在看网站，上面写着“咖啡后”。对吧？“冲走咖啡的副作用”。上面是这么写的。

I totally agree. I mean, I think that that right now, if you look at the bottle, I'm looking at the website, it says post coffee. Right? Rinse away coffee side effects. It says Right.

为咖啡爱好者设计的产品就卖给咖啡爱好者。这确实是个很酷的产品，只是目前还非常小众。围绕小众产品也能建立业务，对吧。

For coffee drinkers, buy coffee drinkers. So this is really it it's it's a cool product. It's just it's very niche right now. You can build a business around niche product. Right.

我是说，这种情况很常见，但你能做大的程度是有限的。尤其是当人们表示'我不喝咖啡'、'我没有这个问题'，或者'我就喜欢咖啡口气'之类的时候。在深入讨论前，我想先问你关于产品名称'tannin'的问题。

I mean, that's happens all the time, but there are limits to how big you can you can take that. Right? Especially if people are like, well, I don't drink coffee, you know, or, or I don't really have this problem. I like the taste of coffee breath or, you know, whatever. Some people I wanna ask you before I get we drill into that, wanna ask you a question about the name, tannin.

因为提到单宁，我联想到红酒或茶中的单宁酸。咖啡里也含有单宁，为什么取名叫单宁呢？

Because when I think of tannin, I think of, like, tannins in wine or, tea. You know? There's there's tannins in there. Why is it called tannin?

这是个好问题。单宁其实也存在于咖啡中，很多天然物质里都有这种化合物，比如树木和植物，你可能知道这些。

Yeah. It's a great question. So tannins are also in coffee. They're really in a lot of, like, natural things. So these compounds and trees and plants and probably know that.

没错。虽然单宁赋予饮品天然风味，但同时也是导致口腔干燥、引发多种口腔问题的元凶。我们的产品本质上是将咖啡/红酒/茶中的单宁冲洗出口腔，同时这个名称也呼应品牌的天然理念——所有原料都取自天然，包装也采用可持续材料。

And Yep. So while they're the things that give it this natural flavor, it's also the thing that dries out the mouth, which causes a lot of the oral health issues. So quite literally, we're rinsing those tannins out of the mouth when you talk about coffee or wine or tea, but it also speaks to the just very natural elements of the brand. Like all our products are natural. We use sustainable ingredients, hard sustainable materials for our packaging.

所以这个名字有双重含义，而且我们觉得这个词本身就很酷。

So it's kind of this dual meaning, and we thought it was a cool word.

我突然想到——鲍勃你提到他们的Instagram账号，你们团队年轻有活力，擅长故事营销。你们会不会讨论口腔微生物组这类话题？比如'我们现在的漱口方式全错了'、'你有口臭吗'，或者'即使没有口臭，你的清洁方式也不正确'这样的内容？

You know, one of the things that comes to mind is and and and, Bob, you mentioned you mentioned their Instagram, and you you guys are young. You're cool. You've got, you know, your storytellers. I wonder whether you guys can talk about like oral microbiome or like Right. You know, the way we're washing our mouths is all wrong or do you you know, do you have bad breath or even if you don't, like, you're you're not cleaning your mouth right in the right way.

嗯，就像这样开始思考，我觉得，Bobby，你提到了整体口腔健康对吧？或者说微生物群健康。

Like Mhmm. Just starting that way and thinking about and I think, Bobby, you alluded to this, overall mouth health. Right? Or or whatever. Microbiome health.

顺便问一句，你们怎么能不推出喷雾剂或者薄荷糖呢？含片之类的。

And by the way, how could you not have, like, either a little spray eventually or mints? Lozenges.

当然，牙膏也行。

For sure. Toothpaste.

对，没错。是的。不，Guy，我觉得你说得很对。

Yeah. Right. Yeah. No. I think you're right on, Guy.

而且这绝对是我们想要发展的方向。虽然我们在确立这个定位上有些挣扎，但随着深入研究，我们愈发认识到口腔护理的重要性。现在人人都在谈论肠道菌群，却很少有人提及口腔微生物群及其与肠道、整体健康的关联。Guy，我特别喜欢这个观点。

And and that's that's definitely exactly where we wanna bring it. I think we've been struggling a little bit to make that positioning, but I think we've grown even more convinced of the importance of oral care as we've done this. And everyone's talking about the gut, the gut biome, but very few people are talking about the oral microbiome and the connection that it has the gut, the connection that it has to total health. And so I love that idea, Guy.

就太棒了。当然，不用泄露商业机密，但我希望知道成分以及为什么它比李施德林更好。

I I you know, I'm I'm looking at your packaging, you know, all natural, vegan, alcohol free, fluoride free. I I wanna know what's in it, and I feel like you you should make that a little clearer Mhmm. In your I see aloe leaves in a picture, but, like, it would be cool if on the you know, how RXBARS, you know, is like three eggs and two dates and one, you know, four almonds. Like, it's so clear. I wonder if you could do a version of that without giving away your secrets, obviously.

我想知道这里面有什么，为什么它比李施德林对我更好。

But I wanna know what's in this and why is this better for me than Listerine.

它尝起来是什么味道

And what it tastes

我想知道它尝起来像什么。

like. I wanna know what tastes like.

对。是薄荷味的吗？

Yeah. Is it minty?

嗯，不。这些都是很好的观点。我想我们在口腔护理方面确实有些纠结。只是好奇人们到底想了解多少关于口腔护理的信息，因为有些产品名称有点古怪。

Yeah. No. It's it's all good points. I think we've we've wrestled a little bit with oral care. Just wondering how much do people really wanna know in oral care because some of the names are a little funkier.

比如，它不像枣子或蛋清那样。但我确实认为，将定位转向健康领域，简单地教育人们了解这些成分，并让他们参与我们的过程，是个很棒的主意。

Like, it's not like a date or a an egg white. But I I also do think you talking about positioning to wellness, just the simplicity of really educating people to those ingredients and letting people in on our process is a great idea.

是的。我认为你既有机遇也有挑战，对吧？你不想只吸引咖啡爱好者，还想向人们展示这将如何使他们受益。我认为实现这一点的很大一部分可能在于先寻找一个特定的群体。也许像你这样的年轻男性就是起点，先吸引这个群体，再以此为基础扩展。

Yeah. I think I think I think you have a an opportunity and a challenge, right, which is you don't wanna just appeal to coffee drinkers, and also you wanna show people that what this is is is gonna benefit them. And I think I think a part a big part of doing that is really and maybe maybe starting out by looking for a tribe. Maybe it is young men like you. Maybe you start that way, and you try and appeal to that group, and you build from that group.

我是说，RXBAR最初就是从CrossFit健身房里的CrossFit爱好者开始的。

I mean, RXBAR started out with CrossFitters at CrossFit gyms.

没错。

Right.

要知道，现在所有人，包括在职父母、妈妈们，都在路上匆忙吃这些东西，但这并非它们最初的设计用途。

You know, now everybody, you know, working parents, mommies, everybody's using eating them on the go, but that's not how they started.

对，对。也许可以放在健身房，或者牙医诊所之类的地方，你知道的。

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they it could be in a gym. It could be, you know, it could be in a dentist office, like, you know.

是的。我们一直在尝试融入这种社交健康潮流，比如冷水浴、桑拿，人们正在做这类事情。夏洛特有个很棒的社区我们深入参与了，我觉得在那里找到了一个小众市场。所以我能理解你们说的。

Yeah. We've been I think we've been trying to lean into this kind of social wellness movement that's happening, like cold plunges, saunas, kind of where people are doing that kind of stuff. There's a great community in Charlotte that we really tapped into. I think we found a little niche there. And so I hear what you guys are saying.

我正全力发展这个细分领域。真正投入其中会是什么样子？因为据我所见，确实还没有口腔护理公司与健康运动真正结合，让人们把口腔护理也视为健康的一部分。

I'm like really growing that niche. Like what does it look like to really lean into that? Because I do think, you know, at least that I've seen no oral care company has really aligned to the wellness movement, where people are thinking about oral care when it comes to wellness.

酷。

Cool.

好的。明白了。

Yeah. Alright.

太棒了。谢谢大家。

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

太棒了。亨利·戴维斯，有一款产品叫Tanen漱口水。Tan口腔护理是一家公司。祝你好运。感谢来电。

Awesome. Henry Davis, a product is called Tanen Mouth Rinse. Tan Oral Care is a company. Good luck. Thanks for calling in.

是啊。祝你一切顺利。

Yeah. Good luck with everything.

干杯，伙计们。

Cheers, guys.

谢谢。你知道，这很有趣。而且，作为一个年轻的创始人，当你面临这么多不同的方向时，情况确实复杂。我最大的建议是不要急于投入某事，而是先尝试，像用脚尖试探一下。哪怕只是把它放在你的牙医诊所让他的病人使用，或者也许你只在一家Equinox健身房试用。

Thank you. You know, it's it is interesting. And, you know, it is complicated when you're a young founder and and there's so many different directions to go. And, you know, my biggest advice is don't jump into something, but just, like try it, like dip your toes in and see. And even if it's just you're putting it in your dentist office and his patients are using it, or maybe you put it in your Equinox just in one gym.

你只需稍微涉足这些事，别被那种‘要是我有资金就好了，要是我能进入下一轮融资就好了’的想法压垮。先发展你的业务。

You just kinda dip your toe into those things and don't get overwhelmed to think, oh, well, if I only had the money, if I only had the next series. Grow your business first.

是啊。完全同意。

Yeah. Totally.

而且他必须审视竞争环境。市面上有很多清爽型漱口水。比如，你懂的？而且丹尼斯还发现了几款漱口水，

And he's gotta look the competition. There are a lot of clean mouthwashes on the market. Like, what you know? And and and there's a couple mouthwashes that are, you know, Dennis found.

是啊。明白吗？而且它们更

Yeah. You know? And they're more

采用天然成分。所以了解市场现状并差异化定位很重要。

natural ingredients. So it's good to kinda know what's out there and position yourself away differently.

他们面临的挑战会稍微艰巨些，但如果方法得当——这也是为什么我认为应该先争取特定用户群体——就有可能成功。确实能成。鲍比，结束前最后问你一个问题。如果你能回到化妆师鲍比·布朗的时代，为人们准备电视或视频拍摄，在她刚起步创业时，你会给她什么建议？

They are gonna have a slightly harder battle to wage, but if they do it right, which is why I think maybe trying to get a certain tribe of users first, they could it could work. It could succeed. Yeah. Bobby, before I let you go, one last question for you. If you could go back to Bobby Brown, makeup artist, you know, getting people ready for their TV or whatever video shoots, and you could give her advice as she was starting to build this business out.

当时知道哪些事会对她有帮助？

What would have been useful for her to know?

她应该学会呼吸。学会偶尔放空大脑，懂得恢复。这也是我现在经常告诫自己的话。我们都还在不断完善中。

That she should learn to breathe. She should learn to, you know, to shut off your brain sometimes and learn to recover. That's the same thing I'm telling my, you know, myself now. I'm a work in progress as we all are.

说得太好了。这位是鲍比·布朗化妆品和琼斯之路美容品牌的创始人鲍比·布朗。顺便说，如果还没听过鲍比·布朗化妆品那期节目，强烈建议回听，故事非常精彩。接下来分享那期节目里我最喜欢的片段之一。

I love it. That's Bobby Brown, founder of Bobby Brown Cosmetics and Jones Road Beauty. And by the way, if you haven't heard the Bobby Brown Cosmetics episode, go back and check it out. It's an incredible story. And here is one of my very favorite moments from that episode.

我曾亲自面试并聘用过该品牌的每一位员工，后来不再如此。突然间，有些为我品牌工作的人我从未谋面，甚至可能不会录用，这确实是个挑战。我试图放手细节，但随后意识到正是这些细节让公司如此特别。于是我不断想着如何补救——只要我们这样做，只要我能解决那个问题，情况就会好转。

I used to hire and interview every person that walked in that brand, and then I didn't anymore. And all of a sudden, there were people working on my brand that I never met before and that I might not have hired, and, you know, it was a struggle. And I tried to let go of the details, but then I realized the details were what makes the company so special. And so I kept thinking I could fix it. If we could just do this, if I could get this, it could be better.

但情况并未好转。

And it didn't get better.

非常感谢收听本周节目。请务必关注我的新闻简报，您可在guyraz.com免费订阅。每周内容都满载企业家们的真知灼见，以及我采访史上最杰出创业者时的观察与心得。如果您正在创业并希望参与节目，请发送一分钟语音介绍您的业务、需要帮助的难题或疑问，我们很乐意提供支持。

Thanks so much for listening to the show this week. Please make sure to check out my newsletter. You can sign up for it for free at guyraz.com. Each week, it's packed with tons of insights from entrepreneurs and my own observations and experiences interviewing some of the greatest entrepreneurs ever. And if you're working on a business and you'd like to be on this show, send us a one minute message that tells us about your business, the issues or questions you'd like help with, and hopefully, we can help you with them.

请务必留下联系方式。您可以通过语音备忘录发送至hibt@id.Wondery.com，或致电+1 804331298留言。所有信息也会附在播客描述中。本期节目由Sam Paulson制作，Ramtine Arablui作曲，Andrea Bruce剪辑，音频工程师Sina Lofredo。

And make sure to tell us how to reach you. You can send us a voice memo at hibt@id.Wondery.com or call us at +1 804331298, and leave a message there. And we'll put all this in the podcast description as well. This episode was produced by Sam Paulson with music composed by Ramtine Arablui. It was edited by Andrea Bruce, and our audio engineer was Sina Lofredo.

制作团队还包括Alex Chung、Elaine Coates、Carla Estevez、Neva Grant、Casey Herman、Chris Massini、Catherine Seifer、Carrie Thompson和Ramel Wood。我是Guy Raz，您正在收听的是《How I Built This Lab》建议热线。若喜欢本节目，现在加入Wondery Plus即可在Wondery应用或Apple Podcasts提前收听无广告版本，Prime会员可在Amazon Music享受无广告收听。离开前，请至wondery.com/survey填写简短问卷与我们分享您的故事。

Our production staff also includes Alex Chung, Elaine Coates, Carla Estevez, Neva Grant, Casey Herman, Chris Massini, Catherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, and Ramel Wood. I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to the advice line on how I built this lab. If you like how I built this, you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com/survey.