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在进入本期节目之前，先感谢我们的赞助商Anthropic。
Before we get into the episode, thanks to our presenting sponsor, Anthropic.
他们打造了Claude，一款专为需要深度思考、研究、策略、规划和梳理复杂信息的问题而设计的AI。
They make Claude, an AI built for the problems that take real thinking, research, strategy, planning, and making sense of a lot of moving pieces.
下次当你脑子里反复琢磨一件事却理不清头绪时，不妨试试看。
Give it a try for the next thing you can't quite stop turning over in your head.
遇到值得解决的问题，就去claud.ai/hibt开始使用Claude吧。
For problems worth solving get started with Claude at claud dot a I slash h I b t.
你好，欢迎来到《我是如何打造这个实验室的》建议热线。
Hello, and welcome to the advice line on how I built this lab.
我是盖伊·拉兹。
I'm Guy Raz.
这里是帮助你解决商业难题的地方。
This is the place where we help try to solve your business challenges.
每周我都会邀请一位传奇创业者，他们曾是节目的嘉宾，这次来帮我们一起帮你解决问题。
Each week, I'm joined by a legendary founder, a former guest on the show who will help me try to help you.
如果你正在创业，需要建议，随时给我们打电话，你可能就是下一位做客节目的嘉宾。
And if you're building something and you need advice, give us a call, and you just might be the next guest on the show.
我们的电话是1804331298。
Our number is 1804331298.
请留下一段一分钟的语音，说说你的生意，以及你希望得到哪些帮助。
Leave us a one minute message that tells us about your business and the issues or questions that you'd like help with.
好了。
Alright.
我们开始吧。
Let's get to it.
本周邀请到的是OtterBox的创始人库尔特·理查德森。
Joining me this week is OtterBox founder Curt Richardson.
库尔特最早是在2019年做客过我们的节目。
Curt was first on the show back in 2019.
如果你错过了那一期，想回头听听，我们在节目简介里会提供链接。
And if you missed that episode and you wanna go back and listen, we will drop a link to it in our episode show notes.
库尔特在科罗拉多州南部的一个小山镇长大。
Curt grew up in a tiny mountain town in Southern Colorado.
他21岁的时候，就买下了一家小型塑料公司。
And when he was just 21, Curt bought his own small plastics company.
多年来他过得非常艰难，直到他读到一本叫《E-神话》的书，这才让他明白了真正核心的东西。
And for years, he had a really rough time of it until he came across a book called The E Myth, which helped him understand what truly matters at the core.
这一洞察最终促使库尔特开发出Otter产品，最初只是户外爱好者用的小型防水盒。
And this insight eventually led Curt to build Otter products, which started out as small waterproof boxes outdoor enthusiasts.
当iPhone突然爆火时，OtterBox正好抓住机会，迅速成为美国主流手机壳品牌，五年内把公司从五人规模做到了五亿七千五百万美元的估值。
And when the iPhone exploded in popularity, OtterBox was in place to become the dominant phone case brand in The US, growing the company from 5 to $575,000,000 in just five years.
如今，库尔特已经不再担任CEO，而是转任公司的首席愿景官，我们非常高兴他能再次回到这个节目。
Fast forward to today, Curt is no longer the CEO, but he's now the company's chief visionary officer, and we are so happy to have him back on the show.
库尔特，欢迎再次做客《我是如何打造的》。
Curt, welcome back to How I Built This.
不是。
No.
谢谢你们邀请我。
Thank you for having me.
我记得我们在丹佛见面的时候。
I remember when we met in Denver.
那段时光真不错。
It was a great time.
是啊，我们确实办了一场现场节目。
Well, we did.
我们搞了一场现场直播。
We did a live show.
特别有意思。
Was super fun.
你2019年上这档节目时，有没有想过接下来五年会是什么样子？
When you were on that show back in 2019, what did you think the next sort of five years would look like?
当然，后来实际发生的事又是怎样的。
And, of course, what eventually actually happened.
到那时候，我已经开始摆脱每天忙于琐事的状态，这正是我想要的。
I was out or getting out of running day to day by then, which was something I desired.
我觉得很多创业者都会遇到一个阶段，公司规模大到超出了自己的能力范围。
I think any entrepreneur many times hits a size of a business where it's like, Okay, this is beyond my skills.
我擅长从零起步，但现在公司已经转向了运营管理。
I'm great at startup, but this has turned in operational.
那段时间我换了几任CEO，也学到了不少深刻的教训。
So I went through a number of CEOs in the meantime, learned some hard lessons there.
现在Otter有了出色的CEO和管理团队，效果真的非常明显。
And we've got a great CEO and great executive team now in place at Otter and seeing some great benefits from it.
最初，OtterBox以防护手机壳闻名。
Initially, OtterBox was known as the protective case.
你要是把手机从楼上摔下去，它照样没事。
Like, if you dropped a phone from a building, you knew it was gonna be fine.
现在，你们的产品线已经扩展到很多种类了。
Now, you know, you've got a whole range of products out there.
我的意思是，当你已经是头号品牌的时候，增长会是什么样子？
I mean, when you are sort of the the top brand, what does what does growth look like?
你是怎么持续创新的？
Like, how do you how do you innovate?
你又怎么让自己变得更大？
How do you get bigger?
还是说，这根本就没那么重要？
Or is that even does it even matter?
我们已经做了三十年了。
Well, we've been around thirty years.
对我们来说，关键就是倾听客户、关注市场动态。
So for us, it really is listening to the customer, watching the market.
市场上很多东西都在变，而且还在不断进化，尽管我们现在已经有点像大宗商品了。
A lot of things have changed and continue to evolve in the marketplace, although we've really become a commodity.
我们增长的时候，营收一度达到了11亿美元。
So when we grew, we went clear up to $1,100,000,000 in revenue.
而且市场缩水了。
And the market has shrunk.
人们换手机的频率没那么高了。
People don't buy phones as often.
所以总体收入，我们下降了。
So as far as overall revenue, we've dropped.
但总体利润，反而上来了。
But as far as overall profit, we've come up.
对奥特来说，关键在于把我们的核心业务做得更好。
So for Otter, it was all about getting better at what we do.
还有怎么卖产品，不管是直接面向消费者，还是通过分销渠道。
And how we sell the product, whether it's D2C, whether it's through distribution.
你不一定非得第一个入场，但一旦进去，就必须站稳脚跟。
You don't always have to be first to be there, but when you get there, you need to be very present.
对。
Yeah.
Curt，我记得我们之前聊过这个，但你另外专注的一件事，是你创办的另一家公司，叫Blue Ocean Enterprises。
Curt, I remember when we used we spoke about this a little bit, but but one of the other things that you're focused on is this sort of other business that you started called Blue Ocean Enterprises.
你特别注重投资那些能刺激经济、带动社区参与的企业。
Really focusing on investing in in businesses that are designed to stimulate the economy and engage the community.
是的。
Yeah.
我经常听到很多初创创始人想打造下一个有趣或酷炫的消费品牌或产品。
You know, I I hear from a lot of startup founders who are trying to build the next sort of interesting or cool consumer brand or consumer product.
但我常跟他们说，真正持续成功的生意，往往是你听都没听过的那些。
And often I'll say, you know, the businesses that are consistently successful in in at least in The US are the ones you don't hear about.
就是那些看起来很普通的。
The sort of the boring.
我不太想用这个词，但确实是那些提供各行各业所需商品和服务的、很普通的生意，对吧？
I hate to use that word, but the sort of the boring businesses, right, that that actually provide goods and services that that many industries need.
对吧？
Right?
其实，OtterBox 最初就是这么起步的。
And and really, OtterBox kinda started out that way.
你一开始并不是在做现在这样的产品，它是慢慢发展成今天这样的。
Mean, you weren't making, you you know, it it evolved into what it is today.
如果你现在从零开始创办 OtterBox，没有品牌、没有渠道、也没有多少资金，你还能用同样的方式把它做起来吗？还是觉得得换个做法？
If you were starting OtterBox today, right, with no brand and and no distribution and and no capital really, could you still build it in the same way, or or would it would you have to do it differently, do you think?
我觉得不一定非得换方法。
I don't know that I would have to do it differently.
我会不会换个做法？
Would I do it differently?
当然会。
Well, sure.
如果有足够的资金，我当然想直接大干一场，但你知道吗？
I'd love to have the kind of capital to really just hit it hard, but you know what?
自己从头打拼的过程，其实学到了很多东西。
There's a lot to be learned from bootstrapping it.
硬着头皮做事，其实能学到很多东西。
There's a lot to be learned from having to do stuff the hard way.
我觉得这会让你成为一个更出色的商人。
I think it makes you a better business person.
它也会让你思考：我是不是该换种方式做？
It also makes you looking like, do I do this differently?
创新并不总是在产品本身。
The innovation isn't always in the product.
真正的创新，往往在商业模式里。
The innovation is very much so in the business.
我该怎么把这门生意做对？
How do I do this business right in the right way?
我觉得这是个很重要的问题，但很多人从来不会问。
And I think that's a huge question that a lot of people never ask.
他们总在找下一个新产品，而我们早就走过这条路了。
They're always looking for the next new product, and we've done that.
是的。
Yeah.
我们做过保温箱。
We did coolers.
我们做过服装。
We did clothing.
这些现在都不做了。
You know, all of which we don't do anymore.
专注太重要了。
Focus is so important.
我们现在只专注手机壳和移动配件。
We focus on phone cases and mobile accessories.
对。
Yeah.
库尔特，我们请你来节目，就是想让你帮我们做一件你特别擅长的事——指导别人。
Well, Curt, we asked you to come onto the show to help us do what was one of the things that you really love doing, which is mentoring.
我们这边还有几位听众在等着提问呢。
And we've got some callers waiting for advice with some questions.
准备好接第一个电话了吗？
You ready to take our first call?
当然可以。
Sure.
好的。
Alright.
我们来请第一位来电者上线。
Let's bring on our first caller.
欢迎来到咨询热线。
Welcome to the advice line.
您现在连线的是OtterBox的创始人库尔特·理查德森。
You're on with Curt Richardson, founder of OtterBox.
请介绍一下您的姓名、所在城市，以及您的生意大致是做什么的。
Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business, please.
你好，盖伊。
Hello, Guy.
你好，柯特。
Hello, Curt.
我是来自佛罗里达州萨拉索塔的安迪·杰里米亚。
This is Andy Jeremiah in Sarasota, Florida.
我和妻子特蕾西于2020年共同创办了Mr GameShow Florida。
My wife, Tracy, and I founded Mr GameShow Florida in 2020.
我们在当地多个封闭式社区举办现场游戏节目活动。
We conduct live game show events in the many gated communities in the area.
我们的目标是让每个人每周至少玩一次游戏。
Our mission is to have everybody play a game at least once a week.
我们网站上还提供免费的打印版游戏和聚会游戏点子。
So we offer free print and play games and game night ideas on our website as well.
好的。
Alright.
谢谢你的来电，安迪。
Thanks for calling in, Andy.
明白了。
Okay.
所以你们这个Mr GameShow，是组织游戏之夜对吧？
So Mr GameShow, so tell me you convene game nights.
你能具体说说你们是怎么做的吗？
Tell me specifically what you do.
我们主要做的是现场游戏秀活动。
So our primary business is putting on live game show events.
这里的社区总在找些活动来安排进日程里。
So communities here are always looking for something to put on their calendar.
我们提供音乐宾果、改编版的《家庭问答》、还有改编版的《幸运轮盘》。
So we offer music bingo, a twist on Family Feud, a twist on the Wheel of Fortune.
我们游戏的独特之处在于，人数从12人到200人都能轻松应对，关键是让每个人玩得特别开心。
The unique part about our games is that we're very scalable from 12 to 200 people, and we just make sure everybody has a ton of fun.
这些主要是退休社区吧？
And these are these are retirement communities, I'm assuming, right, mainly?
是的。
Yeah.
大多数参与者确实都在50岁以上，不过最近这一带也开始有一些家庭型社区了。
I mean, most of them are definitely 50, but, yeah, there are some family communities now in this area as well.
明白了。
Got it.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Cool.
你们做这个多久了？
And how long have you been doing this?
我们是从2020年开始的。
We started in 2020.
疫情之后，我们社区的人想找点乐子，我们就开始在停车场办音乐宾果游戏。
Out of COVID, our community was looking for games, and we just started doing music bingo in the parking lot.
效果出奇地好。
It went so well.
我后来把它推广给附近其他社区，没想到就这么火起来了。
I started offering it to other nearby communities and, you know, things took off from there.
真厉害。
Wow.
你一年大概办多少场活动？
And tell me how how many events do you do a year roughly?
我们平均每个月办十场左右，这算是副业。
We average about 10 events a month as a side hustle.
去年我们总共办了五十多场，全靠口口相传，没做任何广告，也没用社交媒体。
We're we did just over 50 last year, all through word-of-mouth, no advertising, no social media.
明白了。
Okay.
那一场活动收费多少呢？
And and what does an event cost?
我们九十分钟的活动起步价是3.5美元，如果要跑得远一点，超出我们习惯的范围，价格会稍微高一点。
We start at $3.50 for a ninety minute event, and it'll go a little bit more if we have to travel farther than a little radius that we like to stay in.
明白了。
Okay.
这么说来，就算社区中心的活动预算也不算贵。
So so pretty, you know, relatively affordable even for an events budget at a community center.
嗯，没错。
Okay.
对，就是这样。
Exactly.
在继续聊之前，你们有什么问题想问我们吗？
Before we dive in further, what's your question for us?
我们希望把Mr GameShow推广到全美，把我们的内容提供给想在当地开办类似游戏节目的人。
So we'd like to scale Mr GameShow nationwide by providing our content to others who wanna start their own local game show business.
启动成本其实不高。
It's relatively low cost to start.
我们有很棒、独一无二的内容。
We have great, unique content.
我们对很多大家熟悉的游戏都做了创新改编。
We have a twist on a lot of, you know, popular, familiar games.
我们只是想让更多人接触到这些内容，现在正在找一个合适的途径来实现。
We just wanna get that material out to more folks, and we're just looking for a good pathway to get there.
好的。
All right.
库尔特·理查德森，我来请你发言。
Curt Richardson, I'll bring you in here.
安迪在做这个生意。
Andy's got this business.
他们现在办游戏活动，正在琢磨怎么扩大规模，把这个品牌或生意做得更大。
They're hosting games, trying to figure out how to scale this, how to make this a bigger brand or bigger business.
是的
Yeah.
可扩展性
Scalability.
大问题
Big question.
而且当这一切都高度依赖你的时候，确实很难处理
And a tough one when it's so dependent on you.
这里有很多不同的方向可以考虑
There's a lot of different ways to go here.
也许可以做个应用，用户付费购买，你持续提供新内容
Maybe it's an app kind of thing that they can buy into and you're giving them new content all the time.
也可能做成视频课程、培训工具、购买套装，或者订阅模式
Maybe it's a video play, it's a training tool, it's a kit somebody buys, maybe it's a subscription based deal.
这可能是其中一个可行的路径
That could be one way to go about it.
在我看来，你得持续产出大量内容。
To me, it seems like you've got to create a lot of content.
所以我想问，你技术上够不够强，能自己搞定这些？
So I guess my, are you technical enough to be able to do that on your own?
你和你妻子能一起做出能卖得出去的东西吗？
Can you and your wife put together that where that's sellable?
我们已经做到了。
We have.
我以前是企业培训师，做文档特别拿手。
I was a former corporate trainer, so I'm great at developing documentation.
比如我们的问答游戏，我们已经准备好了26套完全不同的内容，我觉得其他人都能轻松拿去用，自己在当地推广。
So we have a lot of, for example, our trivia game, we have over 26 sets, unique sets ready to go, which I think are easy for other folks to kind of grab and, you know, promote themselves in their local market.
安迪，我有个问题想问你。
Andy, I have a question for you.
如果我跟你说，嘿，你会怎么想？
What do you if I say to you, hey.
你的产品到底是什么？
What what's your product?
你到底卖的是什么？
What's your what what are you selling?
你的答案是什么？
What what's your answer?
有趣。
Fun.
我们卖的是乐趣。
We're selling fun.
有趣。
Fun.
明白了。
Okay.
我觉得吧，光听你说话我就能感觉到，虽然我还没去过那里。
I would argue I would argue, and I don't I can tell by just talking to you here, and I haven't been there.
我觉得你和特蕾西才是真正的核心产品，因为这不只是音乐宾果游戏。
I would argue that you are the product, that you and Tracy are the product because it's not just music bingo.
真正重要的是你们带来的东西——那种魅力和热情，还有你们主持的方式、出题或讲笑话的风格，确保大家玩得开心。
It's what you're bringing to it, the charisma and the excitement, probably the way you host, probably the way you write questions or jokes, you know, making sure that people have a great experience.
所以问题来了，你怎么才能把安迪和特蕾西的这种模式复制扩大呢？
And so the the challenge is is how do you scale Andy and Tracy.
对吧？
Right?
我们最近一期《建议热线》里也有人问过类似的问题，他做培训生意，正发愁怎么扩张。
We, you know, we had a question about similar to this in a recent Advice Line episode from somebody who had a a training business and was trying to figure out how to scale that.
我对他的建议，也是我现在给你的建议：不妨先做个实验试试。
And I my advice to them is is the same I would give to you, which is you you may wanna start with an experiment.
你住在佛罗里达的哪个地方？
So you where in Florida are you?
萨拉索塔附近。
Sarasota area.
萨拉索塔。
Sarasota.
明白了。
Okay.
所以你离坦帕不远吧。
So you're not too far from Tampa.
是这样吗？
Is that right?
联邦。
Federal.
好的。
Okay.
你可以试着在坦帕找个人，把你的材料交给他，让他去办几场活动，你则在一旁观察记录，看看情况如何。
So maybe find somebody in Tampa that you can train, that you can give them your materials, and let them run a few events, and maybe show up and take notes and see what happens.
看看顾客是不是同样满意。
If see if customers are just as happy.
而正是在这里，你才能找到答案。
And and that's where you start to get the answer.
这能规模化吗？
Can this scale?
我能不能开发一套材料，授权给别人，最终打造出一个属于《Mr. GameShow》品牌或认证的主持人体系？
Can I create material that I can license and build actually a business that is a Mr GameShow branded or certified host, you know, down down the line?
不过，这只是我最初的想法。
Anyway, that that's my initial thought.
库尔特，不好意思，我再回头问你一下。
Curt, sorry to to go back to you.
我确实做过。
I I did.
这很有意思，因为我一向是产品导向的，而你提到的这个确实是个产品，你说得对。
That was great because I was kind I'm honestly, I'm kinda stumped by this just because I'm such a product guy and this is a product and you're right.
他本人就是产品。
And he's the product.
他能复制自己吗？
Can he duplicate himself?
他能卖这个吗？
Can he sell that?
这才是关键问题，这也是个很棒的实验。
I mean, that's the question and that's a great experiment.
我觉得这可能是你接下来要走的几种路径之一，可行，也可能不行。
I think that's one of probably a couple of different ways for you to go, yeah, this is doable or maybe not.
也许我就继续这么干，每年赚个五万到七万，也挺好的。
Maybe I'm just gonna keep doing this and make my 50 to 75,000 a year and be good with it.
你刚才提到你以前有企业培训的经历，是吗？
Now you did say something interesting about your background, and you said you were in corporate training at some point?
没错。
Correct.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
太好了。
That's great.
所以你知道怎么写脚本、做内容、建立操作手册和一套完整的规则和系统。
So you know you know what it means to build scripts and to build, you know, content and a playbook and, you know, rules and all of the systems.
既然你懂这些，只要能找到有吸引力、有激情的人，理论上这事是能成的。
So knowing that, if you can find compelling, exciting people, theoretically, this could work.
这其实就是尊巴模式的全部。
You know, the the this is the whole Zumba model.
在尊巴体系里，你想当教练就得交授权费。
In Zumba, you pay a license fee to be a Zumba instructor.
谁都能模仿一节尊巴课，但要想在宣传课程时用上‘尊巴认证教练’这个头衔，就必须交授权费。
Any anybody could kind of replicate a Zumba like class, but to actually be a Zumba certified instructor to get that, you know, on your, you know, on on your title when you're trying to advertise a course, you've gotta pay a license fee.
这才是关键所在。
That's that's the value.
所以也许你可以先试着慢慢搭建起来，心想，好吧。
So maybe, you know, you start to build this out thinking, alright.
我们能做出像《Mr. GameShow》这样的东西吗？
Can we make Mr GameShow that thing?
你知道的。
You know?
哦，这得是个《Mr. GameShow》的主持人。
Oh, it's a Mr GameShow host.
我们希望这样的人能出现在我们的养老社区里。
We we want this person in our retirement community.
但我建议你先找一个对这事感兴趣、觉得能培养的人，看看会怎么样。
But I think I would start with identifying somebody who's interested in doing this, who you think you could train, and see what happens.
这建议真好。
Great advice.
我特别喜欢这次对话。
I really enjoyed this conversation.
谢谢您分享这么多真知灼见。
Thanks for the many words of wisdom.
还有，盖伊，感谢您为创业者带来的无限启发。
And and, Guy, thank you for all the inspiration you give entrepreneurs.
谢谢。
Thank you.
还有，库尔特，您也为创业者树立了极好的榜样，衷心感谢。
And, Curt, thank you for the great role model that you've been to entrepreneurs as well.
谢谢。
Thank you.
当然了。
You bet.
您确实如此，库尔特。
You are, Curt.
您所做的一切，无论是打造一家可持续发展的企业，还是培育出一群真正受益于您理念和努力的员工，都令人敬佩。
In fact, all the work that you've you've done in building a sustainable company and also building a a a community of employees who really benefit from what, you know, what you've done and what you've been doing.
所以
So
谢谢。
Well, thank you.
我完全同意。
I, I echo that.
谢谢。
Thank you.
谢谢，安迪。
Thanks, Andy.
谢谢，安迪。
Thanks, Andy.
我们先休息一下，回来后会有另一位听众来电，提出另一个问题，再一轮建议。
We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice.
我是盖伊·拉兹，我们现在正在‘建议热线’上回答大家的问题，聊聊我是怎么打造这个实验室的。
I'm Guy Raz, and we're answering your questions right here on the advice line on how I built this lab.
今天我们的赞助商是Anthropic，也就是Claude背后的团队。
Our presenting sponsor today is Anthropic, the team behind Claude.
我在准备面试时经常用Claude，它已经成了帮我快速摆脱混乱中间状态的得力工具。
I've been using Claude when I'm prepping for interviews, and it's become one of those tools that helps me get out of the messy middle faster.
我会去看创始人的发展时间线，想弄清楚什么时候发生了什么，哪些早期决定关键，真正的转折点在哪里，故事到底从哪儿开始。
I can be looking at a founder's timeline, trying to understand what happened when, which early decisions mattered, what the real turning points were, and where the story actually starts.
Claude不只会给我一个简短总结，它会陪我一起梳理材料，找出那条线索——把一个人的起点和终点连起来的那根线。
And instead of just giving me a quick summary, Claude helps me work through the material and find the thread, the thing that connects where someone started to where they ended up.
这正是我最喜欢它的地方。
And that's what I love about it.
Claude不只是给我答案，它帮我深入思考问题，整理我已有的知识，从而提出更好的问题。
Claude doesn't just give me answers, it helps me think through the problem and organize what I already know and get to better questions.
Claude是为那些不满足于表面答案的人打造的AI。
Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough.
它是真正理解你整个工作流程、能和你一起思考的合作伙伴。
It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you.
无论你是在午夜调试代码，还是在规划下一步商业决策，Claude都能延伸你的思维，帮你应对真正重要的问题。
Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter.
现在有了CoWork，你还可以让Claude帮你处理那些堆积如山的日常事务。
And now with CoWork, you can use Claude to help with the operational work that piles up too.
你只需指向电脑上的一个文件夹，或者连接Google Drive、Gmail和Slack这类工具。
Point it at a folder on your computer or connect tools like Google Drive, Gmail, and Slack.
告诉它你需要什么，它就能帮你整理文件、制作表格、从零散的笔记中起草报告，还能安排待办事项，让你能回来时直接接手完成的工作。
Describe what you need and it can help organize files, build spreadsheets, draft reports from scattered notes, and queue up tasks so you can come back to finished work.
无论你是在深入研究、准备对话、思考战略，还是只想把拖慢进度的琐事交出去，Claude都能帮你持续前进。
So whether you're in deep research, prepping for a conversation, thinking through strategy, or just trying to hand off the busy work that slows everything down, Claude helps you keep moving.
对于值得解决的问题，立即前往claud dot a I slash h I b t开始使用Claude。
For problems worth solving, get started with Claude at claud dot a I slash h I b t.
欢迎回到《我是如何打造这个实验室的》建议热线。
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.
我是盖伊·拉兹，今天邀请的嘉宾是柯特·理查森。
I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is Curt Richardson.
他是OtterBox和Blue Ocean的创始人，我们现在接听听众来电。
He's the founder of OtterBox and Blue Ocean, and we are taking your calls.
接下来我们请下一位来电的听众。
And let's bring in our next caller.
好的。
Alright.
我很期待和大家聊聊。
I'm excited to talk.
请告诉我们您的名字、所在城市，以及您的生意是做什么的。
Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.
你好。
Hey.
我叫玛丽莎·瓦伦苏埃拉。
I'm Marissa Valenzuela.
我来自佛罗里达州坦帕，我是Gilded Coach Teas的创始人兼首席魔法导师，我们打造源自全球童话灵感的魔法茶饮。
I'm calling from Tampa, Florida, and I am the founder and lead fairy godmother of Gilded Coach Teas, where we create enchanted teas inspired by fairy tales from all around the world.
太棒了。
Awesome.
欢迎来到节目，马丽莎。
Welcome to the show, Marissa.
所以你们的Gilded Coach Teas，是卖袋装的散装茶吗？
So Gilded Coach Teas, you sell loose leaf teas in in bags?
是装在罐子里的。
They're in, like, canisters.
哦。
Oh.
我有两种规格。
I have two sizes.
罐子有三盎司的，还有一盎司半的。
They're so I have canisters, like, a three ounce size and a one and a half ounce bag.
这些罐子是纸板做的吗？
And these are cardboard canisters?
就是这些罐子。
The canisters.
对。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Cool.
那你跟我说说吧，我超爱喝茶。
And and tell me I I love tea.
我平时喝很多茶。
I'm a big tea drinker.
最近我迷上了一种特别浓烈的中国红茶，
I've lately gotten into this really intense Chinese black tea that
哦，这样啊。
is Oh, okay.
天啊，早上喝这一杯，提神效果特别猛。
Man, it gives me a big hit of caffeine in the morning.
因为我已经从咖啡转过来了。
And I because I switched from coffee.
今年年初我就戒掉咖啡了。
I gave up coffee at the beginning of this year.
我挺喜欢咖啡的，但现在真就离不开茶了，这简直是我的最爱。
I love it, but but tea just I just it's really my jam now.
那你跟我说说，你的茶有什么特别的？
So what tell me about your teas.
我就想，好了，玛丽莎，我凭什么要买你的茶呢？
Like, I was like, alright, Marissa, why should I buy your teas?
如果你喜欢魔法和怀旧的感觉，那你就该买我们的茶。
Well, you should buy our teas if you are someone who happens to enjoy magic and nostalgia.
我们有一些灵感来自《灰姑娘》的配方。
So we have blends inspired by Cinderella.
事实上，我第一个研发的茶品叫《从前有个人》，是榛果黑茶，加了法式香草奶油味。
In fact, the first blend I ever came up with was called Once Upon a Time, and it is a hazelnut black tea with French vanilla creme as well.
之所以选榛果，是因为在格林兄弟的原始童话里，根本没有仙女教母。
And it's hazelnut because in the original Grimm's fairy tale, there's no fairy godmother.
而是一棵榛树，灰姑娘对着它哭泣，愿望就实现了。
There's a hazel tree that Cinderella sort of cries to and ignites her wishes.
所以我喜欢回归原始童话，每款茶都基于那个版本来设计。
So I like to go back to the original fairy tale and base each blend off of that.
太厉害了。
Wow.
我正在看你们的网站，现在全明白了。
I'm I'm looking at your website, and this makes sense now.
我正看着‘最美的人’这一款。
I'm on the fairest of them all.
我猜这是来自《白雪公主》的故事吧。
I'm assuming this is from Snow White.
是的
Yeah.
当然
Of course.
你这里有加了糖苹果的草本茶
You've got herbal tea with candied apple
对
Mhmm.
然后你把它泡着喝
That you would steep.
这太棒了
Oh, that's so cool.
因为她当然有那个有毒的苹果
Because she, of course, has the, you know, the poisonous apple.
没错
Yes.
这么说来，你真是个童话研究专家了。
That so you are like a real fairy tale scholar.
太感谢你了。
Thank you so much.
我可算不上什么童话研究专家。
I haven't gotten a fairy tale scholar.
其实我是偷师学来的。
That is I'm a I'm a steal that.
谢谢。
Thank you.
所以你是把这些茶混合起来，然后在你的网站上卖吗？
So you're blending these teas and selling them on your website.
能跟我聊聊这个生意做了多久吗？还有就是……
And tell me a little bit about how long has the business been around and yeah.
我们从2020年10月就开始了，推出过几款配方，也搁置过几款。
So we've been around since October 2020, and we've developed a couple blends, shelved a couple.
目前我们本地有两家店在卖。
We're in two stores at the moment locally.
能跟我聊聊你们的销售情况吗？
And how and give me a sense of your sales.
大概现在业绩怎么样？
How how are you doing roughly?
这正好引出我想问的问题。
So that kind of leads into my question.
明白了。
Okay.
有一阵子我们的销量特别好，一直往上冲，简直停不下来。
Our sales were doing really, really great for a while where they were projected to go up and up and up and up, if you will.
但我生了第一个孩子后，就歇了一年。
But I sort of took, like, a one year hiatus when I had my first baby, person only.
从那以后，我就觉得势头没了，想问问该怎么重新找回动力，把销量拉回来。
And ever since then, I felt that we've lost momentum, and I want to know what I can do to sort of regain that momentum and recapture those sales.
好的。
Alright.
重新找回势头，夺回销量。
Regain momentum and recapture sales.
你觉得就像从零开始一样。
And you feel like you're starting from scratch.
明白了。
Okay.
库尔特·理查德森，我来请你说说。
Curt Richardson, I wanna bring you on.
你有什么建议吗？怎么才能重新找回势头？
Any thoughts, any advice on how to regain momentum?
我觉得首先你得当自己是从头再来。
Well, I guess right away you gotta treat it like you're starting all over.
因为某种程度上，确实就是这样。
Because you are in some ways.
展开剩余字幕（还有 400 条）
不过好处是你有产品，而且我很喜欢你的故事。
But the nice thing is you've got product and I love your story.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我觉得故事特别重要。
I think story is huge.
这个品牌在社交媒体上有很多机会。
You've got lots of opportunity with social media with this brand.
简直就是为社交媒体量身定做的，太棒了。
I mean, just reeks social media, good stuff.
我会全力把故事讲出去，吸引大家来访问我的网站。
And I would really pour my attention into getting my story out so people come to my website.
直接面向消费者，这一点再明显不过了，我肯定会走这条路。
And direct to consumer, I mean, this has it written all over it and that's where I would go.
也可以跟一些门店试试合作。
You can play with some stores and stuff.
但是
But
当然。
Sure.
如果你能直接面向消费者，你的投入回报会高得多。
Man, if you can go d to c, you're gonna make so much more money for your efforts.
明白了。
Okay.
我真的超喜欢直接面向消费者的模式。
I just I love d to c.
是的。
Yeah.
我同意。
I I agree.
我很喜欢这个故事。
I love the story.
我的意思是，这些茶都源自童话故事，一看配料就能发现端倪。
I mean, all these teas are inspired by fairy tales, and then you start to see it when you look at the ingredients.
配料太棒了，听着就让人流口水。
The ingredients are awesome, and they sound delicious.
比如这个‘小海公主’，明显是取材于《小美人鱼》。
I mean, looking at little sea princess, obviously, in session obviously, inspired by the little mermaid.
它里面含有……
It's got Yeah.
我压根不知道这是啥东西。
I didn't even know what this is.
丹麦蓝莓配甜忍冬，是一款白茶拼配。
Danish bilberry and sweet honeysuckle, a white tea blend.
听着真诱人。
That sounds delicious.
蓝莓在丹麦就像他们的蓝莓，跟普通蓝莓差不多。
Bilberry is like a it's like the Danish version of a blueberry.
好的。
Okay.
这当然是一个丹麦故事。
And that's, of course, a Danish story.
对吧？
Right?
没错。
Yes.
是的。
Yeah.
那这粉末是什么？
And what's this dust?
是仙尘。
Oh, pixie dust.
仙尘？
Pixie dust?
这是我们做的可食用闪粉，叫仙尘，我们说只需要仙女一把的量，往杯子里放一点点，就能让整杯饮料闪闪发亮，充满魔力。
We it's an edible it's our edible glitter that we call pixie dust, and we say you need a fairy's handful and just the tiniest amount in your cup, and it makes everything sparkly and magical and enchanted.
以前我们会直接把闪粉加进茶叶里，然后摇一摇，这样泡茶的时候，茶叶表面已经裹上一层了。
We used to put it in the tea itself and then, like, shake it up so that way when you scoop your tea out and steeped it, it was already covered for you.
后来我们不这么做了，因为我不拥有自己的商用厨房，而且大家都不喜欢工具上沾满闪粉。
We've since stopped doing that because I don't own my commercial kitchen, and, you know, people don't like it when they get glitter on their tools.
我觉得吧，我得小心点说，我知道很多孩子都喜欢童话故事，但我去过迪士尼乐园和华特迪士尼世界，我有两个儿子。
I think there is so I mean, I and I'm gonna tread carefully here because I know that all kinds of kids love fairy tales and but I've been to Disney World and Disneyland, and I've got two boys.
我可以肯定地告诉你，他们根本不会冲着公主们跑过去。
And I can tell you right now, they did not run to the princesses.
尽管这其实是迪士尼卖得最火的东西。
Even though that is the biggest I think it's the biggest part of what Disney sell.
我的意思是，这份额大得惊人。
Like, I think it's the it's just massive.
对吧？
Right?
所以我能想象女孩们的生日派对，真的有太多有趣的东西了。
So I can imagine birthday parties for for for girls or girls, and I it's just so many cool things.
让我来说说我的看法。
Here here's here's what I would what I would say.
对吧？
Right?
因为你的问题其实是，该怎么重新启动这件事？
Because your your your question is, how do I jump start this?
该怎么找回势头？
How do I regain the momentum?
首先，生完孩子后休息一年，这太棒了。
First of all, taking a year out again because you had a baby is awesome.
我觉得能给自己这么多时间陪孩子，真的很了不起。
And I think that's just amazing to to give yourself that time with your kid.
谢谢。
Thank you.
你别给自己这么大压力，那样太累人了。
I would not put that kind of pressure on yourself because that's that's exhausting.
我觉得更该问的是，我能坚持做些什么小事情呢？
May maybe I think the question is, like, what what can I start to do consistently
明白。
Okay?
比如每周做一点，连续做三到六个月？
Each week, you know, for for three, for six months?
另外，我记得你以前也卖过不少茶，还达到过自己满意的成绩，那些买家的信息你大概还留着吧？
The other thing is, I imagine because you did have you did reach, you know, sales that you were happy with, you probably still have the context of those people who bought your teas.
现在好多生意都是这样，库尔特，你懂的。
So many businesses and, Curt, you know this.
现在大家都拼命拉新客户，获客成本高得离谱。
So many businesses are focusing on customer acquisition and costs are through the roof now.
以前随便一搞就能成单，现在光拉一个客户就得花八九十块，甚至一百块以上。
I mean, what used to be shooting fish in a barrel, you're now spending $80.90, $100 more on customer acquisition costs.
我觉得够多的企业都没重视客户留存。
I don't think enough businesses focus on customer retention.
其实很多时候，真正的关键就在这里，因为这么做根本花不了多少钱。
That's really where, you know, a lot of times, that's where the sweet spot is because that doesn't cost that much at all.
你已经拥有这些客户和他们的联系方式了。
You've already got the customers and the contacts.
我建议你好好花点心思，找出那些最优质的客户。
I would really try and double down on identifying your best customers.
谁买过你家茶两次以上？
Who who ordered from you more than once?
对。
Mhmm.
你有跟他们保持联系吗？
Are they you know, have you been in touch with them?
能不能给他们点优惠，让他们重新买你的茶？
Can you offer them some incentive to start buying your tea again?
还有一点，我觉得可以特别关注一下盖伊提到的那些人。
One other thing I might have is is maybe really focus on those people that Guy's talking about.
比如那些办茶会的小女孩，你能不能顺便卖一套茶具？
Is it little girls with tea parties that you could sell a tea set with too?
对。
Yeah.
你可以卖的不只是茶，而是一整套体验，一个完整的故事。
You could sell a whole experience, your whole story.
我的意思是，茶之外能加的东西太多了，往上推销的空间很大，能让你直接升级到另一个层次。
I mean, there's so many more things you could add to the tea that are upselling could put you in a whole different spot.
哇，我妈妈给我买了这套茶具。
And wow, my mom bought me this tea set.
下一个小女孩看到后，肯定也想要同样的茶具和茶叶。
Well, the next little girl's gonna want the same tea set and teas.
说不定还可以搭配一些饼干或者司康饼一起卖。
And maybe there's crackers or crumpets that can go with it too.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，玩得开心点。
I mean, have fun with this.
我猜你现在手头没多少预算投社交媒体广告，但发帖还是可以的。
I imagine right now you don't have a whole lot of cash to spend on on social media advertising, but you can make you can make social media posts.
没错。
And Absolutely.
你知道吗，谁说得准呢？
You know, and and who knows?
有时候，哪怕一分钱不花，内容也可能突然火起来。
Sometimes that, you know, something can really go viral without any dollars behind it.
这种事确实可能发生，尤其是在抖音上。
It can still happen, especially on TikTok.
对的。
Mhmm.
但我觉得，正如柯特说的，这里真的很有讲故事的潜力。
But I do think that, as Curt said, that there's just so much potential for storytelling here.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，你已经在茶里讲故事了。
I mean, you already you're already telling stories in the tea.
顺便问一下，你有联系过以前的客户吗？
And and have you by the way, have you reached out to your previous customers?
有啊。
Yes.
我有个通讯简报，做得还不错，至少我觉得是这样。
I do have a newsletter that I do a pretty good job, if I may say so myself, of keeping up with.
很多人一发现我们，就被这个故事和童话般的氛围吸引住了。
And a lot of people, when they find us, are very intrigued by the story and the fairytale aspect.
所以在这方面，我一直和我的核心客户保持着联系。
So in that way, I do stay in touch with a lot of my core customers.
我可以提供一些有趣的激励措施，比如，对我们最忠实的顾客，我们在做个小实验。
I would offer some kind of interesting incentive, like, hey, for, you know, our most loyal customers, we're experimenting.
如果你买一盒茶，我们很乐意送你几款新品试喝，顺便听听你的反馈。
You know, if you order a tea, we'd love to send you a sample of of some blends and tell us what you think.
我只是随便想想，但我觉得，哪怕给点折扣，也能重新唤起他们的记忆，让你再次进入他们的视线。
I mean, I'm just sort of spitballing here, but I do think that or even, you know, a discount or something just to bring them bring awareness back into their minds, right, to get you back on their radar.
对。
Yeah.
这主意真不错。
That's a great idea.
没错。
Yeah.
我有个孙女，都不知道她有多少套公主裙了。
And, you know, and I've got a granddaughter, and I don't know how many princess outfits she has.
简直多得离谱。
It's crazy.
我觉得你这里有机会卖的不是一个产品，而是一整套体验。
I think you got a chance here to sell a whole experience.
现在只是露了个头而已。
It's just tease part of it.
可能是那些服装和书籍。
It's maybe the outfits and the books.
说实话，这里面有很多值得深挖的东西，但你得聚焦才行。
And I mean, there's just, there's a lot of meat here that's good, but you're gonna have to focus.
别想着讨好所有人。
Don't try to be everything to everybody.
找到那个小众市场，比如公主这个方向。
Find that little niche, maybe that princess niche.
没错。
Yep.
你的核心产品是茶，但库尔特，你确实抓到重点了。
Your core product is tea, but I think, Curt, you're onto something.
我可以想想，如果你提供婚礼用的茶品或者婚礼特调，会不会有人感兴趣？
I can I mean, I would start to see if I see you you you offer weddings or wedding blends?
不过话说回来，你能不能为一个七岁、八岁或九岁小女孩办一场完整的茶话会生日派对？
But I mean, man, could you mount could you could you mount a whole tea party for a seven or eight or nine year old girl's birthday?
我觉得塔姆帕肯定有不少家长愿意为这样的派对花上一笔不菲的费用。
I would think that there are plenty of parents in Tampa who would be willing to spend, you know, pretty decent money on on a on a party like that.
我同意。
I I agree.
我也这么觉得。
I agree.
我相信这样的客户确实存在。
I do believe they are indeed out there.
我只是得想办法找到他们。
I just have to find them.
真的非常感谢你。
So thank you so much.
是的
Yeah.
这个品牌叫 Gilded Coach Teas。
The brand is called Gilded Coach Teas.
马丽莎·瓦伦苏埃拉，谢谢你的来电。
Marissa Valenzuela, thanks for calling in.
祝你好运。
Good luck.
祝你好运。
Good luck.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
在挂断之前，库尔特，我想再次衷心感谢你。
And before I go, Curt, I just wanna say thank you so much.
你让我重新燃起了每年重听和重读《E-Myth》的热情。
I you sparked my yearly re listen and reread of the e Myth.
每年我都会把这事给忘了。
It's something every single year I forget about it.
总有什么东西让我重新读一遍，这次是因为听了你的节目。
Something sparks me to reread it, and that was relistening to your episode.
谢谢你为此做的这一切。
So thank you for that.
里面好多精彩的观点。
There's so many good tidbits in there.
当然了。
You bet.
谢谢你。
Thank you.
非常感谢。
Appreciate it.
谢谢你，玛丽莎。
Thank you, Marissa.
非常感谢。
Thank you so much.
我们再插播一个短暂的广告，马上回来，还有最后一位听众来电。
We're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with one more caller.
请继续收听。
Stay with us.
我是盖伊·拉兹，您现在收听的是《我是如何打造这个企业的》咨询热线。
I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the Advice Line right here on how I built this lab.
欢迎回到《我是如何打造这个企业的》咨询热线。
Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.
我是盖伊·拉兹，今天我和OtterBox的创始人库尔特·理查德森一起接听听众来电。
I'm Guy Raz, and today, I'm taking calls with OtterBox founder Curt Richardson.
库尔特，今天最后一位听众想讨点建议。
Curt, we have one more caller for today looking for some advice.
准备好了吗？
You ready?
是的
Yeah.
我准备好了。
I'm ready.
您好，欢迎来到由OtterBox创始人库尔特·理查德森主持的建议热线。
Caller, welcome to the advice line you're on with Curt Richardson, founder of OtterBox.
请告诉我们您的名字、您来自哪里，以及您的生意大致是做什么的。
Tell us your name, where you're calling from, and just a little bit about your business.
嗨，盖伊，库尔特。
Hi, Guy, Curt.
能参加这个节目我真的很兴奋。
I'm really excited to be here.
我一直很喜欢这个节目。
Big fan of the show.
我叫文斯。
My name is Vince.
我从新泽西州的查塔姆打来电话。
I'm calling in from Chatham, New Jersey.
我的公司，其实是我和我妻子一起创办的，叫Evrloop，是一家做环保婴儿用品的公司。
My company or my wife and my company is called Evrloop and it is a sustainable baby gear company.
我们的产品环保有两个原因。
It's sustainable for two reasons.
我们所有产品都只用回收材料和可再生材料制作，更重要的是，当客户不再需要这些产品时，我们会以20%的现金回购，然后把材料重新加工成新产品。
We make our products exclusively with recycled and regenerative materials, but also more importantly is that we buy our products back from our customers when they no longer need them for 20% cash back so we can recycle it into new products.
我们的核心目标是零浪费，绝不让任何东西进垃圾填埋场。
Our big thing is zero waste, nothing to landfill.
太棒了。
Wow.
明白了。
Okay.
欢迎来到节目，Vince。
Welcome to the show, Vince.
所以你们做婴儿用品。
So you make baby products.
能给我讲讲你们做的几款产品吗？
Tell me just a couple of products you make.
我们是一年前这个时候刚推出的。
We just launched this time last year.
一开始推出了两款产品：一款用回收HDPE塑料做的三合一高脚椅——提到塑料是因为我知道Curt懂塑料，还有一款有机摇椅。
We launched with two products, a three in one high chair made from recycled HDPE, given the plastic call out because I know Curt knows plastics, and an organic bouncer chair.
就是那种让宝宝坐进去的椅子。
So something that you put your baby in
哦，明白了。
Oh, yeah.
用来放松休息的。
To lounge in.
对。
Yes.
目前的产品都很不错。
So good products for now.
这些产品是你自己设计的吗？
And did you design these products yourself?
不是。
No.
我以前在玩具行业工作，跟一些顶尖的设计师和工程师合作过。
I worked with my my career before this was in the toy space, and I worked with some really stellar designers and engineers.
我对注塑和制造很有了解，但我本身并不是受过专业训练的设计师或工程师。
I have a strong understanding of injection molding and manufacturing, but I am not a designer and engineer by training.
所以我请他们帮忙，用这些特定材料来设计这些产品。
So I worked with them to design these products using exclusively these materials.
所有东西都是回收材料做的吗？
And everything is is is recycled?
你们用的所有塑料和材料都是回收的吗？
All the plastic, all the materials you use are recycled?
所有塑料都是100%来自路边回收的再生塑料。
All the plastic is 100% curbside collected plastic, recycled plastic.
对。
Mhmm.
我们会用不锈钢，等产品回收回来后再循环利用。
We do use stainless steel which we'll recycle when we get the product back.
至于面料，比如我们会用100%有机棉和有机羊毛。
And when we use fabrics, for example, we use 100% organic cotton and organic wool.
我们这么做，是为了产品用完后能直接堆肥处理。
And we do that so that we can actually compost the product when we're done with it.
是的。
Yeah.
所以这其实是各种材料的组合。
So it's a it's a mix of it's a mix of different ingredients.
你以前一直在玩具行业做吧。
So you were in the toy space for a while.
那你这个想法是怎么来的呢？
And and how did you come to this this idea?
婴儿用品这个领域，我觉得挺有意思的。
I mean, baby products, I think interesting category.
能说说你当初为什么决定创立这个品牌吗？
Tell me about the decision just to start this this brand.
是的。
Yeah.
我职业生涯的前十年是在一家环保玩具公司度过的。
So the first decade of my career was at a environmentally friendly toy company.
我每天都特别享受那份工作。
I loved every day of it.
周一和周五一样开心。
I enjoyed Mondays as much as Fridays.
我们做那些玩具时确实用了回收材料，但后来我才意识到，等用户用完了想回收，这些产品最终还是会被扔进垃圾填埋场。
You know, we use recycled materials for those toys, but it really kind of dawned on me that, you know, if you went to recycle one of those products when you were done with it, it would go to landfill.
这是因为全球的回收中心都不清楚这东西该怎么处理。
And that's because recycling centers globally don't know what it is.
他们只知道瓶子和罐子怎么回收。
They know what bottles are and cans are.
于是我就开始琢磨，如果我们自己把它们收回来再循环利用，会怎么样？
So that's where I kinda had this idea brewing where it was like, what if we brought it back and recycled it ourselves?
这正是我们推出婴儿用品品牌的想法起点。
And that was kind of the the the jumping off point for the Baby Gear brand.
真了不起。
Wow.
你是一年前刚推出的，而且全程都是直接面向消费者销售吗？
And tell me, you just launched a year ago and and and it's direct to consumer entirely?
是的。
Yes.
我们一年前推出时只有两款产品，靠的是一些我早年积累的人脉资源。
So we we launched a year ago with our two products, know, leveraging some contacts, a lot of contacts I've had.
我们现在已经在诺德斯特龙和Pottery Barn Kids上架了。
We are now live with Nordstrom Pottery Barn Kids.
我们也在塔吉特上线了。
We're live on Target.
我们还和Creighton Kids、Masonette等多个第三方电商平台合作，同时也在我们自己的官网直接销售。
We're live with Creighton Kids, Masonette, a lot of other third party ecom retailers and then direct on our site.
所有销售都是直接面向消费者的。
So it's all direct to consumer.
大部分产品都是商家直接发货，我们借助的是他们的销售平台。
Most of these products are drop ship, so we use their marketplace.
除了大型零售商，实体店里的销量不大，但整体情况还不错。
Not too much gear is sold in store besides big box retailers and things are things are going well.
你第一年业绩怎么样？
Tell me, yeah, how'd how'd you do in your first year?
是的。
Yeah.
我们第一年，说实话，收入才18000美元，但今年预计能到10万美元。
So our fur I mean, our first year, we only did, like, 18 k in revenue, but this year, we're on track to do a 100 k.
太厉害了。
Amazing.
明白了。
Okay.
在深入之前，你对我们有什么问题吗？
Before we dive in further, what's your question for us?
我的问题跟营销有关。
So my questioning is is related to marketing.
我们大部分销售都来自婴儿登记清单。
So most of our sales are baby registry driven.
这意味着从客户了解到产品到实际购买，中间要隔三到六个月。
And what that means is there's about a three to six month lag from discovery to purchase.
这就让判断哪个营销渠道有效变得特别困难。
And that makes knowing what marketing channel is working very challenging.
所以我想问的是，如果你处在我的位置，会倾向于在多个渠道上小规模试水，比如抖音、Meta 或 小红书，还是其他平台？
So my question is is if you were in my shoes, would you place a lot of small bets in different channels like TikTok, Meta, or Pinterest, or others?
还是会选一个方向，集中精力深挖？
Or would you pick a lane and go deep?
这个问题很有意思。
Interesting question.
明白了。
Okay.
库尔特·理查森，我想请你来聊聊。
Curt Richardson, I'd love to bring you in.
跟文斯打个招呼吧。
Say hello to Vince.
你好，文斯。
Hello, Vince.
你最近怎么样？
How are you?
嗨，库尔特。
Hi, Curt.
有什么想法或问题吗？
Thoughts, ideas, questions?
嗯，我明白你的意思。
Well, yeah, I get your question.
首先，我会先用小弹丸不断试，直到打中目标。
First of all, I'm a big I would shoot BBs until I hit something.
明白了。
Okay.
等打中了，我就换上更大一点的口径。
And then when I hit it, I'd kick up to a 22 caliber.
等真正起效了，我就直接上大口径的。
And when it really took off, I'd go 50 mag 50 cal.
我的意思是，别一下子把所有钱都押在一个地方。
You know, what I'm saying is, don't throw all your money down one hole at once.
你得开很多枪，才能打中真正重要的目标。
You've got to fire a lot of bullets until you hit something significant.
等打中了，再考虑把钱投进去。
And then that's where you start to spend your money.
别一上来就死磕某一个渠道，时间就是金钱。
I'd be very careful just picking one channel that can, time is money.
如果你一头扎进某个死胡同，不试试其他方向，直到找到对的路，迟早要吃大亏。
And if you spend all your time down one rat hole and don't go down multiple ones until you find what you're looking for, it's gonna hurt you.
听你这么说，真让人耳目一新。
That's very refreshing to hear.
我跟不少人聊过这事儿，也接触过很多专注单一渠道的机构，个个都说自家渠道最牛。
I've talked to many different folks about it and agencies that focus on specific channels and everyone's selling their channel as the place to be.
对中介机构要留个心眼。
Careful with agencies.
没错，我们基本不用机构，主要找顾问合作。
Exactly, yes, we don't, we use consultants for the most part.
我的直觉也告诉我，就像你建议的那样，把赌注分散开。
My gut has said to do what you're suggesting and that's pepper the bets out there.
慢慢来，有条不紊地摸索，直到你真正搞清楚了。
And take your time, be methodical until you start understanding.
以前做Otter的时候，我们用了很多不同的渠道，让不同的人来谈论我们的产品。
Back in the day for Otter, we used a lot of different channels to get different people to write about our products.
只要你肯找，免费的营销资源其实很多，关键是找到愿意帮你说话的对的人。
And there's a lot of free marketing out there if you look for it, if you find the right people to talk about your product.
让别人去说你的产品。
Let other people talk about it.
别人说你，比你自己说更有说服力。
It has more credibility than you anyway.
你自己吹自己，大家都知道你在自卖自夸。
So, I mean, when you're blowing your own horn, people just know you're blowing your horn.
但要是别人替你吹，那广告效果就强多了。
But if somebody else is blowing it, it's much better advertising.
没错。
Definitely.
文斯，我的看法有点不一样，这在一定程度上取决于你愿意花多少钱。
Vince, I have a slightly different take, which which is to say, it depends in part on what you are prepared to spend.
对吧？
Right?
我的意思是，如果你打算投入几万甚至几十万美元，那确实值得做一些小规模的测试。
I mean, if you're talking about tens or or even hundreds of thousands of dollars, I think there's a a compelling case to make that you you you do make small experiments.
但早期创业者常犯的一个错误是，把五千或一万美元分散投到好几个渠道，结果却得不到多少有用的信息。
But one of the the mistakes that we have seen early stage founders make often is that they will put, you know, $5,000 or $10,000 into multiple channels, and it doesn't always tell you much.
我觉得其中一个原因在于，早期创业者往往没花足够的时间去深入研究，到底是谁在买你的产品。
And I think one of the one of the reasons why is because oftentimes, especially at the early stage, founders don't spend as much time as they should really getting obsessed with who is actually buying your product.
对吧？
Right?
我敢说，大多数买你产品的人，根本不是因为环保意识才买的。
I would I would I would hasten to guess that most people buying your product are not buying it because they're necessarily environmentally conscious.
可能有一部分是，但我觉得大多数人是因为喜欢这个产品。
Probably some are, but I would think that most people like the product.
另外我觉得最吸引人的一点是回购计划。
And the other thing that I think is probably the most compelling thing about about this is the buyback.
完全没错。
100%.
对吧？
Right?
他们确实会这么做。
That that they Mhmm.
没错。
Right.
我说实话，婴儿用品里很少有这种情形，你买了之后用着开心，然后商家还会退你20%的钱。
I mean, I don't can't think of any I mean, very few baby products where they're like, yeah.
你买下它，用得开心，之后我们还会退还你20%的费用。
You buy it and enjoy it, and then we will give you 20% of what it costs.
等你用完了，我们会回购。
We'll buy it back when you're done.
这真的非常有意义。
That's that's very significant.
我的意思是，这可是个大亮点。
I mean, that's a big deal.
你一针见血。
You hit the nail on the head.
你知道吗，我经常参加各种消费展会，推广我们的产品。
It's you know, I go to a lot of consumer shows and we we sell our pitch.
我们会讲成分，大家都说：‘这不错。’
We talk about the ingredients and everyone says, oh, that's great.
我特别喜欢这一点。
I love that.
但一提到回购，大家的眼睛马上就亮了。
And then when we say the buyback, the eyes just light up.
是的。
Yeah.
他们就说：‘把我加上。’
And they say, sign me up.
把我们加到注册名单里吧。
Let's add it to registry.
对。
Yeah.
我觉得在你掏一分钱之前，最好先打个电话。我自己网购时就用化名。
And I would say before you even put a dollar down, I would try and call literally I I'll buy things online, and I use a pseudonym.
但我会收到创始人发来的邮件，写的是：‘亲爱的化名用户，我很想听听你喜欢我们产品的哪些地方。’
But I'll get an email from the founder saying, hey, to my pseudonym, I would love to hear what you liked about our product.
真的打电话来，我特别感动。
Give me a call literally, and I'm very impressed when I see that.
我觉得在这个阶段，你们完全可以这么做。
I mean, at this stage, I think you could do some of that.
不如直接打个电话，别让人填表格，看看能不能让十来个、二十来个人告诉你，他们为什么选择你。
I mean, just do a call instead of having people fill out forms and see if you can get, you know, ten, fifteen, 20 more people giving you reasons why they did that.
等你慢慢摸清这些人的特点，就能更精准地决定钱该花在哪儿。
And and and once you start to build a profile of who that person is, that really can help you sharpen your focus on where you wanna put those dollars.
三四个渠道，不错，挺好的。
Because I would say three channels, four channels, great.
七八个、十来个、十五个渠道？我不太确定，除非你真有大把预算。
Seven, ten, 15 channels, not I I'm not sure unless you again, you've got huge amounts of money to spend.
但关键是，你得清楚这些人是谁，这样才能知道该把营销预算投到哪里。
But but I think knowing who those people are will help you figure out where to put those marketing dollars.
你明白我的意思吗？
Does that make sense?
这话说得太有道理了。
That makes makes a lot of sense.
是的。
Yeah.
直接去找源头看看。
Just act going direct to the source to see.
请注意，我并不是说要跑到十个地方去。
And mind you, I wasn't saying I wasn't saying go 10 places.
我建议你好好研究，挑出四到五个渠道，然后看看哪个效果最好。再说一遍，我早期的观念是，除非能衡量效果，否则绝不花钱做广告。
I would I would really research and pick four to five and then see what lands, see what And again, my philosophy early on was, I'm not gonna spend money on advertising unless I can measure it.
因为如果你没法衡量，那就根本不知道钱花到哪儿去了。
Because if you can't measure it, you have no clue where that money's going.
我也是这么想的，库尔特。
I'm in that camp as well, Curt.
这一直是个难题。
And that's been the challenges.
我喜欢看数据和流程走向，但现在很难看清这些，这对做运营的人来说挺头疼的。
I like seeing the data and the flow through and I'm having trouble seeing that, which is tough for an ops guy.
没错。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
但盖伊说中了关键。
But Guy hit it.
我的意思是，你可以直接联系买过产品的客户，问问他们是从哪儿听说这个产品的。
I mean, you can get ahold of your customer who bought it, I mean, where'd you hear about it?
他们为什么喜欢它？
Why do you like it?
他们为什么决定购买？
Why'd you buy it?
这些问题都很棒。
Great questions.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得这个故事特别有吸引力，对我来说，即使抛开再生农业这部分，我也非常欣赏它。
And I think that the story is so compelling and it really to me, even beyond the regenerative I love the regenerative stuff.
我特别喜欢这一点。
I love that.
我愿意为这个生活，但我不是那种典型的消费者。
I'd live for that, but I'm I'm not the typical consumer on that.
关键是回收回购。
It's the buyback.
想想我们养孩子时买的一大堆婴儿用品，最后都得处理掉，有些能卖出去。
I think of all of the baby stuff we had with our kids and just getting rid of it and, you know, you you sell some of it.
总会有人想要这些东西。
You find people who want some of it.
也有一部分只能扔掉。
You throw away some of it.
说真的，我都不好意思告诉你我们扔了多少东西。
I mean, I I'm embarrassed to tell you, you know, what we threw away.
这种回购机制真的很有意义。
And that buyback is just very meaningful.
这意思就是说，我们已经帮你考虑好了。
It's basically saying, we got you.
你再也不用操心用完了这东西该怎么处理了。
You're never gonna have to deal with, like, what to do with this thing when you're done.
确实如此。
Definitely.
而且这还契合了我们更大的愿景，就是让家长们融入这种循环使用的模式——只要他们用完我们的餐椅送回来，孩子差不多也该用学步车、平衡车或者滑板车了。
And it and it plays into the bigger vision, which is getting people locked into this circular ownership model, which is as soon as they use our high chair and send it back, you know, their child's probably ready for, you know, a walker or a rider stride a bike of some sort or or a scooter.
很高兴听到你有同感，因为作为父母，真的特别能理解。
So I'm glad to hear that it resonates with you because as a parent, like Yeah.
我一想到这个点就特别有共鸣，尤其是因为传统的捐赠渠道因为责任问题，根本不愿意收婴儿用品。
It hit a home when I landed on it and especially because, like, traditional donation channels won't take baby gear for liability reasons.
所以很多其实还能用的东西，最后都没处可去。
So you have a lot of stuff that's generally used and no place to go.
我真希望你们能在官网上大声把这个亮点宣传出来。
I would really shout that from the rafters on the even on your website.
说实话，我觉得这个点没放在最显眼的位置。
You know, I don't see that right at the front center.
你现在就应该把这一点作为核心来突出。
I would make that the core right now of what you are doing.
我还有一个角度可以提，就是你可以考虑一下这个项目的公益方面。
One other slant I might have on this is maybe you look at the philanthropic side of this.
比如，你们可以和一些机构合作，把产品提供给负担不起的家庭。
Instead of you give this to, you have some programs you work with, people who cannot afford this.
与其花成本去回收，不如直接送到需要的人手里。
So rather than recycling it, because it costs money to recycle that.
清理消毒后直接寄出去，成本低，还能真正帮到别人。
It doesn't cost as much to get it into a program where now somebody else gets to use this thing that is you're just cleaning it up and shipping it on and really helping somebody else.
这一点也特别契合。
And that connects too.
这完全可以成为你们故事里很重要的一部分。
That could be part of your story in a big way.
这个想法太棒了。
I love that.
我们确实和一些医院合作过。
We've actually done some some work with some hospitals.
我们不是在推销产品，而是提供大幅折扣。你知道，我们是个初创公司，资金有限，但这确实是提升知名度的好方法。
Again, not offering product, but steep discounts to, get you know, we we are a young company and we are a bootstrap company, but but it's a great way to build awareness.
说实话，我很喜欢这个主意——把回收的产品送给真正需要的人。
But honestly, I I love that idea of offering the product that comes back to other folks that are in need.
太好了。
Awesome.
这真的是个特别棒的点子。
It's it's just a really, really cool idea.
我是文斯·瓜杜奇，品牌叫Evrloop。
Vince Guaducci, Evrloop is the brand.
祝你好运。
Good luck.
另外，记得随时跟我们更新进展。
And, yeah, keep us posted.
非常感谢。
Thank you very much.
真的很感激。
I appreciate it.
对。
Yeah.
继续坚持下去。
Keep at it.
谢谢。
Thank you.
库尔特，非常感谢你再次做客节目，参与这次分享。
Curt, thank you so much for coming back on the show and doing this.
在你离开之前，我想问你一个问题——我每次邀请嘉宾回来时都会问，如果你能回到创业初期，给自己一些建议，你觉得当时哪些信息是你特别需要知道但还不知道的？
Before I let you go, I wanna ask you a question that I I've been asking everybody who does come back on, which is, you know, you know, if you could go back to when you were first starting out, right, and give yourself some advice, what do you think might have been helpful for you to know that you didn't know then?
我觉得对我而言，得好好想想：我真正想要的是什么？
I think for me to wrestle with the question, what do you want?
我到底想要什么？
What do I want?
很多时候，这跟事业没关系，而是跟内心有关，不是头脑。
And many times it doesn't have to do with the business, it has to do with the heart, not the head.
重要的是你自己去发现它，让它成为你未来的指引。
And I think it's important that you discover that for yourself and let that be your guiding light going forward.
我以前很擅长做东西，但不太擅长管事。
Also, I was really good at making things, but I wasn't really good at running things.
所以接受教育特别重要。
So it's very important to get educated.
途径有很多。
There's different ways to do that.
你可以上大学，但我也不确定大学真能教会你这些。
You go to college, but I'm not sure it's gonna teach you that.
现在有很多非常好的书。
There's a lot of great books out there.
也有很多优秀的导师。
There's a lot of great mentors.
现在啊，你完全可以从YouTube和播客里学到很多东西。
There's nowadays, I mean, you can learn so much on YouTube and podcasts.
真的特别有启发。
I mean, this, so educational.
我建议大家多接触这类资源和学习方式，我自己就是通过观看和聆听，听别人的故事，从他们的失败和成功中吸取经验。
I would encourage people to dive into this type of media and learning because I learn that way from watching and listening, hearing other people's stories, learning from other people's mistakes and successes.
是的。
Yep.
当然。
For sure.
库尔特，非常感谢你再次做客我们的节目。
Well, Curt, thanks so much for coming back onto the show.
很高兴你来参加节目。
It was great having you.
当然了。
You bet.
谢谢你，盖伊。
Thank you, Guy.
再次见到你真开心。
It's fun fun seeing you again.
我也是。
You too.
是的。
Yeah.
看你做的事情真的很棒。
It's great watching what you're doing.
谢谢你为创业圈所做的贡献。
Thank you for doing that for the entrepreneurial community.
这规模真大。
It's so big.
这太重要了。
It's so important.
你真正触及到了一个需求。
You really mean a need.
感谢你参与其中，真心感谢。
Thanks for, and thanks thanks for being part of it.
我是库尔特·理查德森，OtterBox和Blue Ocean的创始人。顺便说一句，如果你还没听过库尔特当初在《HIBT》这期的访谈，建议你回去听听。
As Curt Richardson, founder of OtterBox and Blue Ocean and by the way, if you haven't heard Curt's original HIBT this episode, go back and check it out.
这期节目太棒了。
Please, great episode.
接下来是我从那次访谈里最喜欢的一个片段。
And here is one of my favorite moments from that interview.
这个故事真精彩。
I I this is a great story.
我记得那时在拉斯维加斯参加CES展会。
So I remember being at CES and In Las Vegas.
就在拉斯维加斯。
In Vegas.
对。
Mhmm.
当时AT&T那边负责相关业务的迈克尔·科万过来，看了这个保护壳。
And Michael Cowan, who was the head guy for stuff at AT and T, came by and showed him the case.
他就问：这东西卖多少钱？
And he said, well, how much is it?
我说：零售价是49.95美元。
I said, well, it retails for $49.95.
他直接说：你疯了吧？
He's like, you're crazy.
49.95美元？
$49.95?
买个要价这么高的
Crazy to buy a
外壳。
case from.
那时候所有外壳都才五美元左右。
All the cases were, like, $5.
太离谱了。
It's nuts.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Yeah.
所以他提议，不如先做个测试。
So he said, but we'll do a test.
于是他们做了个测试，打算先试三个月。
So they did a test, and they were gonna do a three month test.
我觉得他们只做了三天的测试，因为货全卖光了。
Well, I think they did a three day test because they all sold out.
天啊。
Wow.
卖得特别火。
They sold like crazy.
就像那个UPS的广告那样。
I mean, was like that UPS commercial.
你懂的。
You know?
就是滴答滴答滴答，我们一看，糟了。
It's like tick tick tick tick tick tick and we're going, oh, crap.
喂。
Hey.
非常感谢你听我讲我是怎么建这个实验室的。
Thanks so much for listening to how I built this lab.
本集由卡拉·埃斯特维斯制作，约翰·伊萨贝拉负责剪辑。
This episode was produced by Carla Esteves with editing by John Isabella.
我们的音频工程师是罗伯特·罗德里格斯。
Our audio engineer was Robert Rodriguez.
片头音乐由拉姆廷·阿拉布卢伊创作。
Our music was composed by Ramtin Arablouei.
我们的制作团队还包括亚历克斯·钟、JC·霍华德、凯西·赫尔曼、伊莱恩·库特斯、克里斯·马希尼、凯瑟琳·塞弗尔、卡莉·汤普森、萨姆·保尔森和内瓦·格兰特。
Our production team also includes Alex Chung, JC Howard, Casey Herman, Elaine Coates, Chris Mashini, Katherine Seifer, Carrie Thompson, Sam Paulson, and Neva Grant.
我是盖伊·拉兹，您正在收听《我是如何打造这一切》实验室版。
I'm Guy Raz, and you've been listening to How I Built This Lab.
再提一下我们的冠名赞助商：Anthropic。
One more mention for our presenting sponsor, Anthropic.
Claude 专为那些喜欢不断深挖、持续研究、反复规划、追问到底、坚持跟进的人设计，直到一切终于变得清晰。
Claude is built for people who like to keep pulling on the thread, the research, the planning, the questions, the follow through until the work starts to make sense.
所以，下一个值得解决的问题，不妨试试 Claude。
So try Claude for the next problem worth solving.
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