与Airbnb的乔·杰比亚对话的建议热线

我们稍微休息一下，但回来之后，会有另一位来电者、另一个问题和另一轮建议。

We're gonna take a quick break, but when we come back, another caller, another question, and another round of advice.

我是盖伊·拉兹。

I'm Guy Raz.

别走开。

Stick around.

你正在收听的是《我是如何打造这个实验室》的建议热线。

You're listening to the advice line on how I built this lab.

欢迎回到《我是如何打造这个实验室》的建议热线。

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.

我是盖伊·拉兹，今天的嘉宾是乔·格比亚。

I'm Guy Raz, and my guest today is Joe Gebbia.

他是爱彼迎的联合创始人，我们正在接听你的来电。

He's the cofounder of Airbnb, and we are taking your calls.

让我们请进下一位来电者。

Let's bring in our next caller.

你好。

Hello.

欢迎来到建议热线。

Welcome to the advice line.

你现在和爱彼迎联合创始人乔·格比亚通话。

You're on with Joe Gebbia, cofounder of Airbnb.

请告诉我们你的名字、你从哪里打来，以及关于你业务的一些情况。

Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

凯和乔，非常感谢你们邀请我。

Kai and Joe, thank you so much for having me.

我叫雷·里基·里维拉。

My name is Ray Ricky Rivera.

我是诺沃克啤酒坊的创始人兼经营者，这是一个自分销的精酿啤酒品牌。

I'm the founder operator of Norwalk Brewhouse, a self distributed craft beer brand.

我们于2022年1月推出。

We launched in January 2022.

不错。

Nice.

我们和当地成熟的酿酒厂合作生产我们的产品，然后直接批发给零售店。

And we work with local established breweries to produce our product, and then we wholesale direct to retail.

销售、分销、营销、品牌，所有这些都由我负责。

And I handle all of the sales, distro, marketing, branding, all of that.

所有事情。

Everything.

所有事情。

Everything.

什么都得做。

Do everything.

你就是公司本身。

You are you are the you're the you're the company.

你就是整个公司。

You're the whole company.

是的，我就是。

I I am.

我，我……

I I...

一个人能算是一家公司吗？

Can you call one person a company?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

我就是一家一人公司。

I'm a man company.

但是，你知道吗，你的名片上应该写“客户经理”。

But, you know, on your business card, it should say account executive.

这样别人就会以为这是一家大公司。

So then people people think that's a really big company.

不。

No.

是的。

Is.

我是，我是雷。

I'm I'm Ray.

我是诺沃克啤酒厂的客户经理。

I'm an account executive with Norwalk Brewhouse.

我姐夫三十年前创业的时候就是这么做的。

So my brother-in-law did that when he started his business, like, thirty years ago.

那是个非常聪明的点子。

It was a very smart idea.

好。

Alright.

那跟我说说啤酒的事吧。

So tell me about the beer.

你们都在酿哪些种类的啤酒？

What what kind of beers are you making?

所以我们是一个……

So we're a...

我喜欢称之为拉丁裔前沿品牌。

What I like to call a Latino forward brand.

所以我想告诉全世界，这是由墨西哥裔美国人拥有和经营的，因为在精酿啤酒行业或者整个啤酒行业里，我们这样的人不多。

So I like to tell the entire world that this is owned and operated by a Mexican American because there's not that many of us in the craft beer industry or in the beer industry rather.

但我们做的是淡拉格，墨西哥风格的拉格。

But we make light lagers, Mexican style lager.

我们的旗舰啤酒叫Bidi Bidi Blonde Blonde，那是一款金色艾尔。

Our flagship beer is called Bidi Bidi Blonde Blonde, which is a blonde ale.

所以，你知道，总的来说，就是市场上比较受欢迎的那些典型啤酒风格。

So, you know, in in general, it's it's your typical beer styles that tend to do well in the market.

太棒了。

Awesome.

在我……之前

And before I...

我们再多聊一点，告诉我们你的问题是什么。

We dig in a little bit more, tell tell us what your question is for us.

所以，显然，我的规模很小，但我在本地市场已经取得了一些成功。

So, obviously, I'm I'm tiny, but I've been having some success in my local market.

我的需求量还不错。

I have decent demand.

只是在洛杉矶，像洛杉矶地区吗？

Just in the LA, in, like, LA area?

在洛杉矶县。

In Los Angeles County.

还有一点橙县，但我一直在扩展方面遇到困难。

Little bit of Orange County as well, but I've been struggling with scaling.

我有一些很好的机会去接触更大的零售商，但我没有足够的资金来扩大规模，真正利用这些找上门来的机会。

I've had some great opportunities to land bigger retailers, but I haven't had the proper capital to scale and really take advantage of these opportunities that have been coming my way.

当我推出这个品牌时，启动资金是我卖掉旧DJ设备筹来的，我还发起了一个小型的Indiegogo众筹活动。

When I launched this brand, the seed money I gathered from selling off old DJ equipment, I launched a small Indiegogo crowdfund campaign Mhmm.

然后我就这么开始了。

And off I went.

我的问题是我没有任何信用记录。

And my issue is I don't have any established credit.

我不是信用不好。

I don't have bad credit.

我是完全没有信用记录，所以贷不到款。

I don't have any established credit, so I can't get a loan.

我申请了感觉超过一百个补助金。

I've been applying what feels like for over a 100 grants.

2022年的时候，我成功拿到过一个，那真是太棒了。

Back in 2022, I managed to land one, which was amazing.

但除此之外，全靠自己掏钱，非常精简，非常拼，我需要这方面的帮助或建议。

But other than that, it's bootstrapped, super lean, super scrappy, and I need help or ideas in that area.

比如，我有哪些融资渠道可以选择？

Like, what are my options for finding funding?

这确实是个有意思的挑战。

This is an interesting challenge.

好的。

Okay.

在我们讨论资金问题之前，先跟我说说你是怎么……

Before we get to tackling this question about cash, right, tell me how you got...

因为你提到你卖了DJ设备来资助这个生意。

Because you mentioned that you sold DJ equipment to finance this business.

所以我猜你以前是靠当DJ赚钱的。

So I'm assuming you were at one point making some money as a DJ.

你是怎么开始做酿酒的？

How did you get into brewing?

比如，这一切是怎么开始的？

Like, how did this start?

我在音乐行业里待了整整二十年。

So I have, like, a solid twenty years of being in the music industry.

不错。

Nice.

大约在2012年、2013年左右，我在诺沃克市这里管理一些本地乐队。

And back in about twenty twelve, thirteen ish, I was managing local bands here in the city of Norwalk.

我注意到这里没有本地场地可以预订这些现场演出。

And I noticed that there was no local venue to book these live acts.

所以我想，也许我可以开一个场地，预订本地现场娱乐活动。

So I thought, hey, maybe I'm I'm the one to open up a venue and book local live entertainment.

这让我想到，可以开一家酒吧兼烧烤店，供应加州精酿啤酒。

That sort of led to me thinking that it could be a a bar and grill serving California craft beer.

时间快进到2014年，我妻子正在生我们的女儿。

Fast forward to 2014, my wife is giving birth to our daughter.

出生时有些问题，我们在医院待了45天。

There was some issues there at birth, and we found ourselves forty five days at the hospital.

所以我需要找点事情做。

So I needed something to do.

我拿了几本书。

Picked up some books.

其中一本是萨马拉·凯利写的《酿造生意》。

One of the books was Brewing Up a Business by Samara Kelly.

角鲨头，他们上过节目。

Dogfish Head, who was on the show.

没错。

That's right.

我很喜欢那期节目。

I love that episode.

总之，那本书真的启发了我，让我思考可能不只是开一家酒吧和烧烤店。

Anyhow, that book really inspired me to think about potentially building something more than a bar and grill.

2015年，我联合创办了一个家酿啤酒俱乐部，叫So Calcedveseros，后来成了全国最大的拉丁裔家酿啤酒俱乐部。

And in 2015, I cofounded a homebrew club called the So Calcedveseros, which became the largest Latino based homebrew club in the country.

不错。

Nice.

所以随着我在家酿啤酒这个爱好上越钻越深，我开始意识到这个行业有个巨大的空白。

So as I'm diving deeper into the homebrew hobby, I'm starting to realize there's this huge void in the industry.

在所有权这一块，拉丁裔的人真的不多。

There's not very many Latinos on on the ownership side.

所以我看到那里好像有个潜在的机会，可以让一个品牌站出来，真正跟拉丁裔消费者对话。

So I saw there was, like, a potential opportunity there for a brand to come to come out and really speak to the Latino consumer.

而在这段时间里，我一边做管理，一边兼职当DJ。

And during all this time, I'm managing and I'm DJing on the side.

所以当疫情来袭时，我手头所有的DJ工作都彻底没了。

So when the pandemic hit, any DJ work that I had happening was completely gone.

于是我就想，嘿，这是个机会。

So I just figured, hey, Here's an opportunity.

我不如就去试试。

I might as well go after it.

我开始卖掉我的设备、麦克风、调音台和音箱。

Started selling off my equipment, microphones, mixing boards, and speakers.

我赚了几千块钱，发起了一个Indiegogo众筹活动，我记得大概筹到了20美元左右，然后就创立了这个品牌。

I I made a few thousand bucks, launched a Indiegogo campaign, and I think I I got somewhere around $20 and launched this brand.

太棒了。

Amazing.

我喜欢这个故事。

I love that story.

乔。

Joe.

好的。

Alright.

雷正处在十字路口。

Ray is at crossroads.

有需求，但他得筹钱。

There's demand, but he's gotta raise money.

他得筹集资金，才能试着扩大规模。

He's gotta raise capital in order to try to, you know, scale this thing.

但他贷款一直不顺利，你知道，他正在想办法该怎么办。

But he hasn't had any luck with loans, and he, you know, he's trying to figure out what to do.

我有些想法。

I have some thoughts.

你觉得……

What do you...

他应该从哪里开始呢？

Where where should he start?

嘿，Ray。

Hey, Ray.

今天很高兴和你在一起。

Great to be with you today.

我的问题是，卖给酒吧的桶装酒占多少比例，而零售罐装卖给消费者的又占多少？

My question is what percent is selling for tap to bars and what percent is retail and cans to consumers?

嗯，如果我卖一桶给酒吧，他们大概以1.8美元的价格从我这里购买。

Well, if if I'm selling a keg to a bar, they're purchasing that from me for about $1.80.

每桶的成本大概在1.2到1.3美元之间，具体看啤酒的风格。

It's probably costing me between $1.20 and $1.30 a a keg depending on the style.

零售方面只卖罐装，我觉得利润率大概在40%到60%之间。

At retail, it's cans only, and I think my margin there somewhere between 4060%.

我只是想了解一下……

I just wanna get a sense of...

你觉得未来在B2B这边还有更大的增长空间，还是说应该更多地去拓展零售店？

You think there's more upside in the future on the b to b side, or is this more of like a get to get to retail stores and expand there?

那才是真正的机会吗？

Is that the real opportunity?

我觉得真正的机会在于直接面向消费者。

I I feel the real opportunity is to be in direct to consumer.

而且从长远来看，这一直是我的计划。

And long term, that has been my my plan.

我真的很想开一家诺沃克啤酒屋，就是实体店。

I really wanna open up Norwalk Brewhouse, the physical location.

而且，你知道，如果我们直接通过酒吧把啤酒卖给消费者，那我们的利润是最大的。

And, you know, if we're selling beer direct to consumer over our bar, then our our margins are the biggest there.

所以我选择走合同酿造这条路，是因为风险更低，投入也更少。

So the reason why I chose to go the contract brewing route was because it was lower risk, lower investment.

但现在这个时期真的很难。

But it's a really tricky time right now.

疫情一来，大家都从堂食转向外卖，零售销量一下子暴涨。

When the pandemic hit, everybody went from on premise to off premise, so retail sales were through the roof.

现在很多情况都变了。

Now a lot of that has has shifted.

在堂食或者争取生啤客户方面，真的非常难。

In on premise or going after draft accounts, it's super hard.

这确实是个挑战。

It's it's a challenge.

因为，你知道，我有过这样的经历：好不容易拿下了客户，结果更大的经销商过来，把我的酒桶从龙头上拿掉了。

Because, you know, I've had experiences where I've managed to land accounts, and then the bigger distributor will come in and remove my keg from the tap.

而且就你现在做的这个，你得跟大经销商合作，不然就会被吞掉。

And and and with what you're doing, you gotta work with a big distributor, otherwise, you get swallowed.

我纯粹好奇，你现在是不是在……

Just out of curiosity, are you in...

或者你有没有接触过一些零售商，比如加州的Bevmo、Total Wine或者那些地方？

Or have you have you approached, like, some of the retailers, like, in California, like Bevmo or Total Wine or any of those places?

我还没有，主要是因为……

I have not, and it's mainly because I...

我有信心能拿下那些客户。

I'm I'm confident that I could land those accounts.

但如果我真拿下了，那就会有一大笔采购订单，需要……对。

But if I do land those accounts, then I'm gonna have a huge purchase order that's gonna take Yeah.

前期要投入不少资金，对。

Significant, you know, capital upfront that Yeah.

所以……我一直没急着走那条路。

I don't So I've I've been slow to go that route.

嗯，你知道，我觉得，Ray，我现在看你就像看一个……

Well, you know, I think, Ray, I I I look at you now as a...

你是个餐饮创业者。

You're a food and beverage entrepreneur.

而且，你知道，这会吸引某种类型的投资者，不是科技投资者那种。

And, you know, that's gonna attract a certain type of investor that's, you know, not a tech investor.

不是硅谷那种，但餐饮当然也有投资者。

It's not Silicon Valley, but there are investors for food and beverage, obviously.

所以我觉得这就是我会去拓展人脉、探索的领域，真正去挖掘那些名字，比如谁在这个领域，谁甚至就在你本地，或者区域性的，或者更远一些。

So I feel like that's the space that I would go network in and explore and really try to surface the names of, like, who's out there, who's, you know, even local to you, kind of, you know, regionally based, or expand beyond that.

我也不知道。

And I don't know.

我会开始联系别人。

I would start reaching out to people.

我会开始找与餐饮投资者的联系，可能是在天使投资层面，但也可能在风投规模上。

I would start to find connections to food and beverage investors, probably at the angel level, but maybe at the VC scale.

然后我会开始和他们交谈，把你的想法摆在他们面前，开始做推介。

And I would start to have conversations with them to just put your idea in front of them and and start to make pitches.

所以你的意思是找一个做食品饮料的人，也许是另一个创始人，比如像那个创造了奥巴...

So what you're saying is find somebody who's in food and bev, maybe another founder, like somebody who created the o...

奥巴马麦片的人，像那样的人？

Obama o's, somebody like that?

像那样的人？

Somebody like that?

也许吧。

Maybe.

是的。

Yes.

肯定要比那些做奥巴马麦片的人更有经验的人。

Somebody with definitely more experience than the guys who created the Obama o's.

说得好，乔。

Touche, Joe.

我觉得这个建议真的很好。

I think that's really good advice.

你知道吗，Ray，我们不久前做过一期关于运动啤酒的节目，那是一种无酒精啤酒。

You know, Ray, we did an episode you may have heard not too long ago about athletic brewing, which is a nonalcoholic beer.

而且没人愿意跟他合作，你知道的。

And nobody want to work with him, you know.

他甚至找不到一个酿酒师愿意跟他合作，因为那是无酒精啤酒。

He couldn't even find a brewmaster to work with him because it's a nonalcoholic beer.

他去找了他认识的每一个人，老师、朋友、家人朋友，任何人，求他们投资这个品牌。

And he went around to every single person he knew, teachers, friends, family friends, anybody, asked anybody to invest in the brand.

你现在正在做一个产品。

You're now working on a product.

我是说，你看。

I mean, look.

说实话吧。

Let's be honest.

墨西哥啤酒现在正火。

Mexican beer is having a moment.

所以我觉得你做的事情这里有机会。

And so there seems to me like there's an opportunity here with what you're with with what you're doing.

你知道，你在做墨西哥风格的啤酒、拉格、IPA。

You know, you're doing a Mexican style beers, lagers, IPAs.

我甚至不知道美国有没有人做墨西哥风格的IPA。

I don't even know if anyone's doing Mexican style IPAs in The US.

严格来说，那不算一个风格。

Technically, that's not a a thing, like a style.

但我们可以让它成为一个风格。

But we can make it a thing.

没错。

Exactly.

比如我的主打产品，Bidi Bidi Blonde Blonde。

Like my flagship, Bidi Bidi Blonde Blonde.

所有在听的拉丁裔朋友，他们会懂这个梗，Bidi Bidi Blonde Blonde。

And for all the Latinos listening, they'll they'll understand that reference, Bidi Bidi Blonde Blonde.

我们把它定位为墨西哥裔美国人的金色艾尔。

We market it as a Mexican American blonde ale.

严格来说，这不算一个真正的风格。

Technically, that's not a actual style.

但我们在……

But we're...

我想说的是，嘿。

I'm saying, hey.

我是墨西哥裔美国人，这就是我们的啤酒。

I'm a Mexican American, and this is our beer.

所以……

So...

这就对了。

There you go.

这就是我们的啤酒。

This is our beer.

你在创造这种风格，雷。

You're making the style, Ray.

你在创造这种风格。

You're making the style.

他在创造……

He's making...

所以说到筹款，其实每个人都有自己的社交圈，就算你觉得没有。

So so in terms of of fundraising, I mean, look, the reality is everybody has a network even if you think you don't.

就是，你知道，你在星巴克见到的那个人，或者朋友的朋友，或者某个人的父母，或者你在教堂或社区中心认识的人，某个……

And it's it's, you know, the person that that you see at Starbucks or, you know, a friend of a friend or someone's parent or someone at your, like, church or what community center, some...

某个人。

Somebody.

总有人你可以去聊聊，看看他们愿不愿意投点小钱。

There are people that you can talk to and and find out if they'd be willing to put in a small investment.

因为我理解。

Because I I get it.

向别人求助确实很难。

It's hard to ask people for help.

但我有个小技巧。

But here's a trick I use.

如果你把正在做的事情看作一个使命，那这就不是关于Ray发财或者Ray为自己或自己的利益服务。

If you think of what you're doing, which it is, as a mission, it's not about Ray getting rich or Ray serving himself or his interest.

而是关于你正在追求的使命——

It's about the the mission that you're...

你正在追求的那个使命，就是建立你相信的品牌，你相信很多人也会相信并从中获得价值。

That you are pursuing, which is building this brand that you believe in, that you believe a lot of other people will believe in and get value from.

让自己进入这种心态，可能在你向别人求助时真的会有点帮助。

And just putting yourself in that mindset might actually help a little bit when you're asking people for help.

我是说，这是筹款中最难的部分。

I mean, it's the hardest thing about fundraising.

就是开口去要。

It's asking.

大多数人都很难开口要钱。

Most people have a hard time asking for money.

但是呢……

But it's...

如果你能跨过这道坎，并且准备好听到，你知道的，九十九个拒绝，但最终总会有一个同意，那事情迟早会成功的。

If you can get past that and just be prepared to hear, you know, 99 nos forever yes, it's eventually gonna succeed.

我觉得你最终会找到那个人的。

I think you'll eventually find that person.

而且，Ray，我不觉得你在向别人求助方面有什么问题。

And I don't have the sense that, Ray, you have you have an issue with asking people for help.

你现在跟我们打这个电话就是一个例子。

You're on this call with us right now as an example.

我确实在这方面越来越好了。

I'm I'm definitely getting better at it.

说实话，我确实不太擅长开口要钱。

I I do struggle with asking for money, to be quite honest.

但我知道这绝对是必要的，而且是我必须去做的事情。

But I know it's it's definitely necessary, and it's something that I I just gotta do.

好吧，Ray，这就是你的冒险召唤，因为如果你想在这个领域创业，你就得习惯开口要钱。

Well, Ray, this is your your call to adventure here because if you're gonna be an entrepreneur in this space, you gotta be comfortable asking for money.

而且你看，你会被拒绝很多次，你得……

And look, you're gonna get a lot of no's, and you gotta...

其实，我可以跟你分享一个公式。

I will share an equation with you, actually.

这是我在学校学到的。

This is one I learned back at school.

我偷偷溜进了布朗大学的一个创业周末活动。

I I snuck into an entrepreneurship weekend at Brown University.

有个人在做关于失败的演讲，他展示了一个公式：s w 平方加 w c 等于 m o。

This guy was giving a presentation on failure, and he put up this equation, s w squared plus w c equals m o.

然后他解释说，当你卖产品的时候，其实就是在要钱。

And he broke it down, and he said when you're selling a product, you're asking for money, in this case.

有些人愿意给你钱，有些人不愿意，SW平方加WC，谁在乎，等于MO，继续前进。

Some will wanna give you money, some won't, SW squared plus WC, who cares equals MO move on.

你只需要继续往前走，兄弟。

You just gotta keep going, man.

我觉得你得走出去，开始给陌生人发邮件，去参加各种活动。

And I think you just gotta get out there and start cold emailing people, showing up at events.

比如，你有……

Like, you got...

这就是拼搏的时候……

This is where the hustle...

你得进入拼搏模式，才能跨过你现在的位置和你想要达到的融资目标之间的那座桥。

You gotta get into hustle mode to cross the bridge between where you are now and where you wanna get to with regards to fundraising.

说得真好。

That's good.

谢谢你这么说。

Thank you for that.

这很有帮助。

That's helpful.

这个品牌叫诺沃克啤酒坊。

The brand is called Norwalk Brewhouse.

雷、里基、里维拉。

Ray, Ricky, Rivera.

祝你好运，兄弟。

Good luck, man.

我们都支持你。

We're rooting for you.

我们会好好培训你的，兄弟。

We'll train you on, man.

盖伊和乔，我很感激。

Guy and Joe, I appreciate.

非常感谢。

Thank you so much.

干杯，雷。

Cheers, Ray.

谢谢。

Thanks.

感谢来电。

Thanks for calling in.

我得说，看了他们的网站，他显然有原创性。

I gotta say, looking through their website, he's he's got he clearly has authorship.

你知道吗？

You know?

他知道怎么做出有特色的东西。

He knows how to create something distinctive.

这些罐子真的很漂亮。

These cans are really nice.

他有那些乐透里亚牌，就是那个……

He's got the lotorias, the...

就是那些牌，你知道的，墨西哥的那种乐透里亚游戏牌。

From the cards from that, you know, the Mexican, game lotoria.

挺酷的。

It's cool.

这里面有种真实感，这对他是加分项。

There's authenticity to it, which is working in his favor.

我觉得他离……你知道的，达到那种境界已经不远了。

I feel like he's he's not too far away from, you know, reaching...

就像，他……

Like, he...

你知道，他在某个地方已经具备了成为小众品牌的那种地位。

You know, there's there's cult brand status for him out there somewhere

我也这么觉得。

I think so too.

只要他能找到合适的投资人。

If he can just get to the right investor.

我也这么觉得。

I think so too.

事情就是这样开始的。

And that's how it starts.

没错。

For sure.

好的。

Alright.

我们很快再休息一下，马上回来接听下一位来电者。

We're gonna take another quick break, but we'll be right back with another caller.

请继续收听。

Stay with us.

我是盖伊·拉兹，你正在收听的是《我是如何打造这个实验室》的咨询热线。

I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to the advice line right here on how I built this lab.

欢迎回到《我是如何打造这个实验室》的咨询热线。

Welcome back to the advice line on how I built this lab.

我是盖伊·拉兹。

I'm Guy Raz.

今天和我一起接听电话的是爱彼迎的联合创始人乔·格比亚。

And today, I'm taking calls with Airbnb cofounder Joe Gebbia.

那么，乔，我们请下一位来电者进来吧。

So, Joe, let's, let's bring in our next caller.

你好。

Hello.

欢迎。

Welcome.

请告诉我们你的名字、你从哪里打来，以及你的业务的一些情况。

Please tell us your name, where you're calling from, and a little bit about your business.

你好，盖伊，乔，我是杰尔·索普，Gameday Social Apparel的创始人和首席执行官。

Hello, Guy, Joe, Jael Thorpe, founder and CEO of Gameday Social Apparel.

非常感谢你们邀请我上节目。

Thank you so much for having me on the show.

我很高兴能来到这里。

I'm excited to be here.

公司总部在南达科他州的苏福尔斯。

The company is based in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

我们2021年成立，专门为女性打造高品质、时尚前沿的运动服饰。

We launched in 2021 to produce top quality trend forward sports apparel exclusively for women.

到目前为止，我们的产品已经进入了北美大约2000家零售店。

And to date, we're featured in around 2,000 retailers across North America.

哇。

Wow.

这些是……

And these are...

先确认一下，这些是运动……

Just to be clear, these are sport...

是大学体育、职业体育，还是两者都有？

Sports for college, professional, both?

目前我们的授权是和大学合作的。

Our licenses are with universities currently.

大学。

Universities.

好的。

Okay.

所以你们和大学有授权合作，主要做女性运动服饰。

So you have licenses with universities, and you make sports apparel primarily for women.

那比如说，如果……

So so, like, if you...

比如密歇根大学，就会有密歇根款的卫衣，专门为女性设计的。

It's Michigan, it would be like Michigan sweatshirt for...

专为女性设计。

Designed for women.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

没错。

Precisely.

那可能是一个被严重忽视的市场，当你……

That was probably a massively underserved market when you...

跟我说说你是怎么开始做这个生意的。

Tell me how you started this business.

这个想法是怎么来的？

How'd the idea come about?

嗯，不是。

Well, no.

非常严重。

Big time.

我的背景是小型实体零售业。

So my background is small brick and mortar retail.

我最初在时尚行业里摸爬滚打，开了一家女装精品店。

I really cut my teeth in the fashion industry owning a women's boutique.

通过那家店，我开始为当地一所大学制作一些图案T恤，这个想法就是这么来的。

And through that, I started producing few graphic tees for a local university, and that really came about.

因为我和朋友们一直找不到适合穿去看比赛的T恤。

There just was never anything that my friends and I wanted to wear to games.

顺便问一下，那所大学是哪所？

What was the what was the university, by the way?

南达科他州立大学。

South Dakota State.

不错。

Nice.

好的。

Okay.

所以你开始做这些只是为了你和你的朋友们，像好看的T恤和卫衣，因为很多设计都是针对男性球迷的。

So you started making them just for you and your friends, like cool shirts and sweatshirts that look better because a lot of them are really kind of designed for the the male fan.

是的。

Yes.

听起来你对我的行业了解得很透彻。

You understand my industry perfectly, it sounds like.

所以我在南达科他州有两家女性服装店，然后我开始生产T恤在店里卖。

So I owned these two women's stores in South Dakota, and so I started producing shirts to sell through the stores.

而且我觉得很快我就意识到，这个机会比我们卖给南达科他州立大学的要大得多。

And I think pretty quickly, I recognized there just was a much bigger opportunity than what we could sell to South Dakota State.

太棒了。

Amazing.

在我们问你更多问题之前，告诉我们，你...

And, tell us, before we ask you more questions, what...

你今天想问我们什么问题？

What's your question for us today?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

就像我说的，我们大概经营了四年，经历了非常惊人的持续增长。

So like I said, we're about four years in, and we've experienced pretty incredible sustained growth rate.

所以，当我们引进合适的人才和流程，来建立稳定性并继续增长时，我一直在考虑下一阶段，我知道那种让我们从零走到现在的拼搏精神，不会让我们从零做到五千万。

And so as we get the right people and the processes in place to just create stability and to continue to grow, I keep looking at the next stage, and I just know that that scrappy mentality that got us from zero to here is not gonna get us from zero to 50,000,000.

所以在考虑增长时，我很想和你们两位聊聊，你们建议我们如何评估眼前的机会。

And so as we consider growth, I would just love to have a conversation with both of you on how you recommend that we assess the opportunities that come our way.

在我请乔发言之前，你能简单告诉我你们目前的收入大概是多少吗？

Before I bring in Joe, just can you briefly give me give me a sense of what what is your revenue right now?

大约两千万美元。

Around $20,000,000.

你一定是我们在咨询热线中遇到的最大的小企业了。

You must be the biggest small business we've had on the advice line.

太厉害了。

That's amazing.

太了不起了。

That's incredible.

恭喜你。

Congratulations.

我是说，大多数企业的年收入也就10到50美元。

I mean, but most of the businesses are doing, you know, 10 to $50 a year.

好的。

Okay.

乔，想请你来说说。

Joe, wanna bring you in.

首先，这个故事太棒了。

First of all, amazing story.

确实如此。

It really is.

确实是个

It really is a

故事。

story.

我还有很多很多要学的。

I still have plenty plenty to learn.

这就是我来这里的原因。

That's why I'm here.

那么，Jael，当你想到什么……

So, Jael, like, when you think about what...

我总是很好奇，当人们想到他们的公司和品牌时。

I'm I'm always curious when people think about their company and their brand.

你觉得你的品牌背后的核心理念是什么？

What do you think is the core idea behind your brand?

其实，Guy 已经总结得很好了。

I mean, really, Guy kind of summarized it.

就是专门为女性打造的产品。

It's product built exclusively for women.

所以，我想说的是，我欣赏你、你的背景、你所打造的东西以及它的颠覆性，这一切的核心都始于设计。

And so, I mean, what I love about you and your background and what you built and the disruptive nature of it is that the whole idea was design, a lot of where that started.

所以对我来说，一切都关乎设计和品质。

And so to me, it's all about design and quality.

随着我们规模扩大，要保持这种设计和品质显然会越来越难。

And as we scale, that obviously gets more difficult to preserve that design and quality.

但我认为这正是……

But I think that's...

我的意思是，我们的秘诀就是创造出如此独特、与众不同的产品，让它们脱颖而出。

I mean, that's our our secret sauce is just creating products that are so unique and distinctive that they stand out.

这完全说得通。

That that all makes sense.

不过，我想再深入一点。

I wanna push a little bit further, though.

关于Gameday Social，是什么让女性选择从你这里购买，而不是从其他也为女性设计产品的品牌那里购买呢？

What is it about Gameday Social that, like, a woman buys from you and not somebody else who also makes for women...

女装？

Womenswear?

嗯，我觉得我们花了很多时间在版型和剪裁上。

Well, I think one one area that we spend a lot of time on is the fit and the silhouette.

我觉得对女性来说，关键就在于你拿起一件衣服时，它怎么垂坠、怎么触感、怎么贴合。

And I think that's really what it comes down to for women is when you pick up a piece, it's all about how it lays, how it feels, how it drapes.

市面上很多运动服饰其实就是男装稍微改了一下。

And a lot of the sports apparel out there is really men's garments with a little bit different spin.

那你跟客户聊天的时候，我很好奇，她们是怎么说的？她们感觉怎么样？

So when you talk to your your customers, I'd be curious, like, what are they saying they feel like?

穿上你们的衣服，对她们来说在情感上有什么影响？

What does wearing one of your garments do for them emotionally?

这些年她们跟你说了些什么？

Like, what have they said to you over the years?

没有。

No.

这个问题问得好。

I love that question.

我们常说……

We say that...

我们的口号是，我们为社交型球迷服务。

So our tagline is we're for the social fan.

我选这个口号的原因是，我个人其实不是……

And the reason that that I picked that is because I personally am not...

我其实不是体育迷，说起来有点好笑，我居然进了这个行业。

I'm actually not a sports fan, which is kind of funny that I wound up in this industry.

但说实话，这正是我们特别的地方——我希望去球场时能融入那种氛围，那种社交体验，但我……

But, honestly, that's kind of really part of what makes us special is that I wanted to be able to go to games and feel like part of that environment, part of that social experience, but I'm...

我对球队一无所知。

I don't know anything about the team.

我不一定总是关注场上发生了什么。

I'm not paying attention necessarily to what's always happening on the field.

所以我觉得我们真正能带来的，就是让女性球迷在那种社区里有一种归属感，而且是以一种更高级的方式，让她展现自己的个人风格。

And so I think really what we're able to bring is this just sense of of belonging in that community to a female fan, but also just in an elevated way where she's representing her own personal aesthetic.

我觉得……

I feel like...

我在看你的网站，看到这些不同的大学，设计都不一样。

I'm looking at your website here and looking at all these different universities, and the designs are missing.

我……

I...

我本来以为你只会用一些千篇一律的设计，只是换不同的学校名字。

My assumption was you would just have these cookie cutter designs with the different school names.

每所学校都有不同的设计，这真的很了不起。

Every single school has different designs, which is pretty remarkable.

谢谢。

Thank you.

而且它们真的很酷。

And they're really cool.

那它们是卖……

And are they sold...

你们是在卖，主要渠道是什么？

Are are you selling, what's your main channel?

你们主要是批发还是直接面向消费者？

Are you mainly wholesale or d to c?

我们绝大部分是批发。

We're very predominantly wholesale.

这是我们一开始就采用的策略。

That was the strategy that we started off with.

我们也很想发展直接面向消费者的业务，但那需要慢慢来。

We'd love to grow the d to c side, but that's a slower build.

那你们是……

And you are...

所以你们是在校园里的商店或者校园周边销售吗？

So you're sold in, like, shops on campus or or around the campus?

校园商店。

Campus stores.

我们卖给很多精品店和小型夫妻店。

We sell to a lot of boutiques, small mom and pop shops.

那是我的根基，所以我对那类客户群体很忠诚。

That's my roots, so I'm I'm faithful to that customer base.

但我们也和很多全国性零售商合作。

But we also work with a lot of national retailers as well.

你们有没有接受过任何投资？

And have you taken on any investment yet?

没有。

No.

我能走到这一步，靠的是……

I've been able to get to this point by...

没有稀释股权。

Without diluting the equity.

所以目标就是保持这样。

So the goal is to keep it that way.

所以你百分之百拥有这家公司？

So you own a 100% of the business?

没错。

That's correct.

哇。

Wow.

那现在……

So now...

好。

Alright.

那你是在考虑下一步怎么走。

So you're talking about where to go next.

因为很明显，你想扩大规模。

Because, obviously, you wanna grow.

乔，你觉得……

Joe, what do you think about...

我是说，我们有很多不同的方向可以走。

I mean, there's a lot of a lot of different directions we could take this in.

比如，你现在这个阶段，是不是要去找投资人？

Like, do you do you seek out, investors, right, at this point?

你是要放慢增长速度？

Do you slow down growth?

还是加快速度？

Do you speed it up?

我们……

We...

我们马上要出一期节目，是我采访Fanatics创始人迈克尔·鲁宾的。

We're about to have an episode where I interviewed Michael Rubin, founder of Fanatics.

那可能是全球最大的运动服饰品牌。

Biggest sports apparel brand probably in the world.

而且你会……

And you're gonna...

那一集你会学到很多东西。

It'll be a lot for you to learn from that episode.

但你知道，那可是几十亿美元的大生意。

But, you know, multibillion dollar business.

乔，当你想到这个阶段的增长，800万美元的品牌，非常好的品类，大学体育，感觉增长空间无限。

Joe, when you think about about growth at this stage, $8,000,000 brand, really good category, college sports, it just seems like there's endless growth.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

她应该考虑些什么？

What should she be thinking about?

嗯，杰尔，你已经做到了我会建议的事情，那就是尽可能长时间地自力更生。

Well, Jael, you've you've already done the thing that I I would have advised, which is to bootstrap as long as you can.

你知道，我们在Airbnb做的最好的事情之一就是，我们一边艰难维持，一边积累价值，没有过早地放弃太多公司股份。

You know, that was one of the best things that we ever did at Airbnb is that we built up value, you know, scraping by without giving out, you know, too much of the company too early.

所以当我们开始融资的时候，我们知道是时候扩张了，而且我们基本上是用自己的钱验证了商业模式，这样我们在跟投资人谈的时候，就能真正坐在谈判桌上，手里有足够的筹码。

And so as we went into fundraising, as we knew it was time to scale, as we proved out our model on our own dime effectively, it allowed us to go into investor conversations having a real seat at the table, having a full hand of cards to to work with, as we got into discussions with them.

看起来你现在可能就处于这个阶段。

And it seems like you may be at that time.

你知道，你已经有几年的积累了。

You know, you've got years behind you.

你也有很明显的成功。

You've got clear, you know, success.

你也有实实在在的收入。

You've got, you know, real revenue.

我再给你一个建议：最好的融资时机是你不需要钱的时候。

And I'll give you one other piece of advice, which is the best time to go raise money is when you don't need it.

所以如果你现在能做到盈亏平衡，能覆盖自己的开支和成本，而且基本上有无限的跑道，那你现在去寻求投资就有独特的优势。

And so if you're in a position where you've got, you know, Raman profitability, where you're able to cover your expenses and your costs, and it's effectively unlimited runway, you have a unique advantage to go out to seek investment at this point.

所以我觉得我真正会从这儿开始，就是...

And so I think it's really where I would start is what...

你最终想达到什么目标？

Where do you wanna end up?

比如，你对这家公司最大的梦想是什么？

Like, what is your biggest dream for where you could take this company?

我是从那个目标倒推回来的。

And I've worked backwards from that.

说实话，那确实是……

And and honestly, that's...

我的意思是，我很想多听听你关于那个过程的分享，就像你说的，当你手里有牌、能坐上谈判桌的时候……

I mean, I would love to hear more from you about that process of, like you said, when you got to that point where you had the hand of cards and you had the seat at the table of...

还有，就是看看那……

Also just looking at what what what did that...

你们当时在投资方面具体在找什么？

What what were you guys looking for in terms of that investment?

那是什么样的……

What did that...

你是怎么权衡这些机会的？

How did you weigh those opportunities?

那具体是什么样的情况？

What did that kinda look like?

嗯，我们需要一轮种子融资，这样才能招人。

Well, we needed a seed round so that we could hire people.

当时还是只有我们三个人，在我们那个三居室的公寓里工作。

It was still just the three of us working out of our three bedroom apartment.

所以我们出去见了几位投资人，果然，我们最早见的两位里，有一位就想分一大块蛋糕。

And so we went out to to meet a couple of investors, and sure enough, one of the first two that we met with wanted to take a big bite of the apple.

而且，你知道，我们其实不一定非得拿他们的钱，不是那种生死攸关的情况，我们的生活不依赖这个，这让我们在那些谈判中有了一些筹码。

And, you know, the fact that, like, we didn't necessarily have to take their money, it's not like it was sink or swim, our life didn't depend on it, You know, it gave us some leverage in those conversations.

听起来你可能也处于类似的位置。

And it sounds like you may be in a similar position.

不。

No.

那真是太有帮助了，太有帮助了。

That's that's extremely, extremely helpful.

你知道吗，我刚才在想你和你故事的时候，还在想多元化、寻找新的收入来源或类别，我……

You know, the other thing that I was thinking about when I was just thinking about you and your story and that, like, diversification and looking at new revenue streams or categories, I was...

我很想听听你讲讲你们组织决定增加体验服务的经过。

I would love to hear you talk about your decision as an organization to add experiences.

当时是怎么决定在平台上增加体验服务，而不是车辆、办公空间或者其他什么的？

What was the decision making process for let's add experiences to the platform and not vehicles or office spaces or something else?

如果你愿意分享的话。

If you really need to share that.

体验服务源于我们倾听客户的需求，也源于我们自己的愿景，想提供的不只是一个住宿的地方。

The experiences was born out of us, listening to our customer base and also our own vision for wanting to offer more than just a place to stay.

一次旅行包含很多方面。

A trip is many things.

住宿只是人们享受美好假期所需的众多要素之一。

The stay is just one of a dozen things that people need in order to have a great vacation.

我们能通过提供本地正宗住宿或本地正宗体验的视角，做哪些事情呢？如何扩展我们的平台，让房东在你旅行时也能提供这些体验？

What are all the things that we could do through our lens of providing local authentic accommodations or local authentic experiences, how could we extend our platform to allow hosts to offer those experiences when you travel?

其实就是回答人们心中的问题。

Really just answering the question that people have.

好的。

Okay.

你帮我到了这里。

You helped me get here.

现在我能做什么？

Now what can I do?

让我们以非常符合品牌形象的方式回答这个问题，让我们的房东来接待。

And let's answer that in a very on brand way by allowing our hosts to host.

太棒了。

That's awesome.

我觉得这很有道理。

I think that makes a lot of sense.

Jael，我觉得……

Jael, I think...

而且，怎么说呢，这正好印证了Joe刚才说的那一点。

And and and sort of, you know, doubling down Joe's point here.

我的意思是，你看，你们有……

I mean, you know, you have...

你们现在有多少员工？

How many employees do you have now?

我们团队大概有20人。

We're a team of about 20.

20个人。

20 people.

那太棒了。

That's awesome.

好的。

Okay.

所以是20个人。

So 20 people.

而且假设你们……

And assuming you are...

你们盈利吗？

Are you profitable?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

好的。

Okay.

但可能你们的利润率不是……

But probably your margins are not...

可能还不是特别高。

They're probably still not super high.

还没完全到那一步。

Not not quite yet.

对。

Correct.

服装行业很难做。

Apparel is tough.

这行确实不容易。

It's tough business.

但是，你知道，如果能引进一个好的战略投资者，然后你……

But with, you know, bringing a good strategic investor, and you go...

你得非常仔细地考虑这个人选。

You're gonna wanna think really carefully about who that is.

如果要引入合作伙伴，你得找一个在服装行业有经验的人，或者有授权和设计经验的人。

You're gonna want somebody who has experience in apparel if you bring somebody on or experience in licensing and design.

这样你才有机会真正把设计规模做大。

That that gives you the opportunity to really scale up the designs.

因为我敢肯定那是个挑战。

Because I'm sure that's a that's a challenge.

那就是你们可能没有足够的设计师。

Is that you probably don't have enough designers.

你知道吗，其实我们真的已经建立了外包的流程。

You know, that's actually something that we've really managed to create processes around outsourcing

这样才能扩大规模，我对此……

To be able to scale that out, which I'm...

我感到很自豪，因为设计对我们的品牌太关键了。

I am proud of because, again, that's so critical to our brand is the design.

不过，我觉得我们还需要扩展的，就是……

I would say, though, the piece to that that we need to scale out that...

需要花时间的是让我们的制造基地更多元化。

That's just taking time is to diversify our manufacturing base.

我们真的需要更多的制造商，而那是个漫长的过程。

We really need more manufacturers, and that's a long process.

所以，是的，我觉得这些肯定是……

And so, yeah, I would say those would definitely be...

肯定是重要的部分。

Would be important pieces.

当然，考虑到政治风向的变化，你可能得考虑在哪里生产这些产品，当然，如果有关税之类的问题的话。

And, of course, given the the political sort of winds have changed, you may have to think about where you get those manufactured, of course, if there's issues around tariffs and things like that.

所以那可能会带来挑战。

So that could that could pose a challenge.

但是，你知道，显然也有解决办法。

But, you know, there's there's obviously solutions to that as well.

是的。

Yes.

我们一直在讨论这个问题。

We've been talking a lot about that.

而且，是的，我们目前很多生产都在中国进行，但我们在印度也增加了一个很好的合作伙伴。

And, yes, a lot of our manufacturing right now is happening in China, but we've added a great partner in India.

然后……

And...

但再说一次，这确实是个大工程。

But, again, that's a lift.

我的意思是，这需要时间和资金。

I mean, that just takes time and cash.

所以，是的，我知道这非常有帮助。

And so, yeah, I know this is super helpful.

太好了。

Cool.

Jael Thorpe，品牌叫Gameday Social。

Jael Thorpe, the brand is called Gameday Social.

恭喜。

Congrats.

看起来你们做得很好。

It looks like you're doing a lot of things right.