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所以我想告诉你，我们将在7月17日星期三来双子城举办一场现场活动。
So I wanna tell you that we're coming to The Twin Cities for a live event on Wednesday, July 17.
我将和Angie's Boom Chicka Pop的联合创始人Dan和Angie Bastian进行对话。
I'll be talking with Dan and Angie Bastian, cofounders of Angie's Boom Chicka Pop.
讲述一位历史老师和一位精神科护士如何开始制作爆米花，并最终让产品进入全国各地的商店。
How a history teacher and a psychiatric nurse started making popcorn and eventually got it into stores from coast to coast.
这场演出由美国运通赞助，我们其他的现场活动门票都卖得很快。
The show is supported by American Express and our other live events have sold out fast.
所以想买票的话，就去nprpresents.org看看吧，希望能在那里见到你。
So to get tickets, go to nprpresents.org and hope to see you there.
在节目开始之前，还有一件事要告诉你，我们为今年10月在旧金山举办的“我是如何打造这个”峰会推出了一个全新的折扣。
And one more thing before we start the show, I wanna tell you about a brand new discount for the How I Built This Summit, which is happening this October in San Francisco.
我们为团体票推出了新优惠，有效期到6月。
We have a new deal for group tickets through June.
买四张峰会门票，第五张完全免费。
Buy four summit tickets, get the fifth absolutely free.
所以带上你的联合创始人、你的领导者、你的创新者和你的梦想家，一起在由美国运通支持的《我是如何打造这个的》峰会上共同成长。
So bring your cofounders, your leaders, your innovators, and your dreamers, and grow together at the How I Built This Summit supported by American Express.
要享受团体折扣，请发送邮件至 hibtsummit@npr.org。
To take advantage of group discounts, email hibtsummit@npr.org.
希望能在旧金山见到你。
And I hope to see you in San Francisco.
我发现自己经常和朋友们一起吃饭，他们现在大概三十出头，正处于事业开始腾飞的阶段。我们出去吃饭时，会轮流聊近况，而我最怕轮到我，因为大家会问我最近在做什么。
I would find myself at dinners with friends who are kind of early thirties now at stage of their career where things are starting to take off and we'd go out for dinner and we'd go around the table and I would dread when it would come to me and people would ask what I was doing.
我的身体会缩成一团，然后我会小声说，羊毛鞋。
My body would curl up into a little ball and I would sort of say, wool shoes.
当我们离开饭局时，人们会拍拍我的头说，你追求这个小东西真是太好了，祝你好运，小家伙。
And when we'd leave the dinner, people would pat me on the head and say, that's it's lovely that you're pursuing this little thing and good luck with that little fella.
那感觉就是……
And it was just...
太糟糕了。
It was awful.
这里是NPR的《我是如何打造这一切》，一档关于创新者、企业家、理想主义者以及他们背后故事播客。
From NPR, it's How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built.
我是盖伊·拉兹，今天节目要讲的是，一位环保主义者和一位来自新西兰的职业足球运动员如何联手打造了被誉为世界上最舒适的鞋子——Allbirds。
I'm Guy Raz, and on today's show, how an environmentalist and a professional soccer player from New Zealand teamed up to create what's been called the world's most comfortable shoe, Allbirds.
在新西兰，每个人对应六只羊。
So for every human being in New Zealand, there are six sheep.
想想看。
Let that sink in.
羊和人的比例是六比一，这还比1982年的高峰期下降了，那时新西兰每人对应22只羊。
A six to one sheep to human ratio, and that's down from a peak in 1982 when there were 22 sheep for every human in New Zealand.
你可能知道，新西兰人口很少，不到500万。
Now, as you probably know, New Zealand's population is pretty small, a little under 5,000,000 people.
但这个国家生产的羊毛占全球使用量的10%以上。
But the country produces more than 10% of all the wool we use.
新西兰特别擅长生产一种被认为是最好的羊毛类型。
And what New Zealand is particularly good at is producing a type of wool that is considered to be among the best.
这种羊毛叫美利奴羊毛，你大概也猜到了，它来自美利奴羊。
It's called merino wool, and it comes, as you might have guessed, from a merino sheep.
它比那种厚实的圣诞毛衣用的羊毛更柔软、更轻，也不那么扎人。
It's softer, lighter, and less scratchy than the type of wool you might find in, say, a thick Christmas sweater.
多年来，蒂姆·布朗一直都知道新西兰有这种珍贵的出口产品，但他花了十多年才意识到，这正是制作轻便、舒适、透气鞋子的完美材料。
Now for years, Tim Brown was aware of his country's prized export, but it would take him more than a decade to realize that it was the perfect material to build light, comfortable, and breathable shoes.
那种你可以直接穿上跑步，或者在家随便穿的鞋子。
The kind of shoes you could slip on for a run or just wear around the house.
2015年，蒂姆和乔伊·兹维林格合作，想看看这种鞋子到底有没有市场。
In 2015, Tim partnered up with Joey Zwillinger to figure out if they could actually find a market for these shoes.
他们从投资者那里筹集了大约一百万美元，在2016年3月推出了Allbirds，几乎立刻就被《时代》杂志称为世界上最舒适的鞋子。
They raised about about $1,000,000 from investors to launch Allbirds in March 2016, and almost instantly, Allbirds were dubbed the world's most comfortable shoe by Time Magazine.
如今，仅仅三年过去，他们的鞋业公司估值已经达到14亿美元。
Today, just three years on, their shoe company is valued at $1,400,000,000.
但更不可思议的是，他们俩当初能认识本身就是件很偶然的事。
But what's also incredible is how unlikely it is that they even met in the first place.
乔伊在加利福尼亚的马林县长大。
Joey grew up in Marin County in California.
蒂姆当然是在世界的另一端长大的，而且在他认真投入制鞋之前，他一直在踢职业足球。
Tim, of course, grew up on the other side of the world, and even before he seriously got into shoes, he was playing soccer professionally.
他甚至参加过世界杯。
He even competed at the World Cup.
蒂姆在八十年代和九十年代成长于新西兰的惠灵顿。
Tim was raised in Wellington, New Zealand in the nineteen eighties and nineties.
他妈妈是护士，爸爸在非营利组织工作。
His mom was a nurse, his dad worked in nonprofits.
而且从很小的时候起，他就发现自己被足球世界吸引，先是作为球迷，后来成为球员。
And from a pretty early age, he found himself being drawn into the world of soccer, first as a fan and then as a player.
你知道，在一个热爱橄榄球的国家，足球其实非常受欢迎。
You know, it's a really popular sport in a nation nation that loves its rugby.
所以随着足球在我生活中越来越重要，大家总是开玩笑说，我妈妈那边的家人有些失望，因为我踢的是足球而不是橄榄球。
So the joke always was as this went on to become more a part of my life that certainly some of my mum's family were disappointed that it was soccer and not rugby.
但那是我热爱的事情，所以我一直坚持做下去。
But it was something that I loved to do and kept doing it.
现在回想起来，我十六七岁的时候，那就是我的身份认同。
Even when I look back, you know, by the time I was 16 or 17, that was my identity.
我的朋友们都在做这件事。
That was what my friends were doing.
而且我开始感觉到，自己好像有点天赋，能做好这件事。
And I was starting to get a sniff, you know, of something that I could do well.
而且这件事能让我走出一条路，就算不是职业，至少也是一条发展的道路。
And something where I could carve out, you know, if not a career, certainly a pathway.
那时候我就想，天哪，如果能入选新西兰U20国家队，我死而无憾了。
It was, gosh, if I could make the New Zealand Under Twenty Team, you know, I could die happy.
你肯定是个超级有天赋的足球运动员，因为你拿到了奖学金来美国，我猜是去辛辛那提大学踢球吧。
I mean, you must have been a super talented soccer player because you got a scholarship to to come to The US to go, I guess, to the to the University of Cincinnati to play soccer.
你是怎么到那里的？
How did you end up there?
我最后拿到了大概六份奖学金。
I I ended up getting about six scholarship offers.
然后我在辛辛那提找到了一所设计学校，这个专业开始真正吸引我。
And then I found in Cincinnati a design school, which was the subject that it was starting to really connect with me.
所以辛辛那提就是我去的地方，但我之前都没去过那儿。
And so Cincinnati was where I was where I hit it, and I hadn't visited.
那可能是我做的第一个成年人的决定，一个重大的决定，当时我……
And it was it was probably, I I feel like, the first adult decision, big decision I'd made when my...
我爸妈说，我们会想办法的。
When mom and dad were like, we'll make it we'll make it work.
我记得申请的时候，他们用房子抵押，作为信用担保，就是说，这孩子值得信任。
And I remember as part of the application, put their mortgage, you know, they put their house as opposed to part of the the credit that sort of said, you know, he's good for this.
你想去吗？
You wanna do it?
去吧。
Go.
我们会百分百支持你。
We'll back you a 100%.
所以，18岁的我就这样坐上了去辛辛那提的飞机。
And so off I was on a plane to Cincinnati as an 18 year old.
好的。
Okay.
所以，你最后到了辛辛那提，加入了足球队。
So you end up in Cincinnati on the soccer team.
那学校生活怎么样？
And what what was what was school like?
紧张吗？
Was it intense?
是不是……
Was it...
你知道，因为你每周要花四十个小时在足球上，还要上学。
You know, because you're doing soccer for forty hours a week and school.
设计专业挺难的。
The the design program was difficult.
我……
I...
这是个五年的课程。
It was a five year program.
他们想花五年时间把你打散再重塑。第一年就是基础课，不用电脑，纯手工剪纸，接受非常传统的传统设计教育。
They wanted to break you down and build you up over five years, literally, in the first foundation year, cutting paper and not using a computer and literally going through a very, very traditional sort of design education.
那时候挺难的，因为整个体育系的训练都安排在下午，而我几乎每天都有画室课……
And it was difficult because the whole athletic department kinda had their trainings in the afternoon, and I had a studio every...
基本上每天上午九点到十二点，然后下午两点到五点。
Just about every day from nine to twelve and then from two to five.
我现在还记得当时在校园裡飞奔，换好衣服。我跟教练商量过，可以稍微灵活一点……
And I can still remember sprinting across campus, changing, and I'd I'd structured some agreement with a coach that I could kinda be a little bit...
比如我可以错过热身环节什么的，先去上画室课，最后硬是把时间给协调开了。
Know, I could miss the warm up or something, and then I could do the studio and I somehow made it work.
但从一开始就非常紧张。
But it was it was intense from the beginning.
现在回想起来，我……
When I look back on it, I...
当时我……
There was I was...
压力确实不小，但我找到了自己热爱的东西。
There was there was a fair amount of pressure, but I I'd found something that I I was in love with.
艺术和设计哪一点吸引了你？
What was it about art and design that connected with you?
是解决问题的过程。
It was the it was the solving of problems.
我找到了一个能满足我好奇心的领域，这个过程让我……
I found a place that was like a catchall for my curiosity and was a process that I...
我花了一些时间，但我……
It took me a little while, but I...
你知道吗，在几位教授的帮助下，我意识到设计其实不是关于最终成果的。
You know, with the help of a couple of these professors, I realized this was the design was was actually not about the the output.
它是一个解决问题的过程。
It was a it was a process of problem solving.
而且如果你掌握了这个方法，你可以把它应用到各种不同的事情上。
And if you applied it, you could apply it to all sorts of different things.
好的。
Alright.
我们先在这里停一下。
Let's pause there for a sec.
接下来我想让乔伊来说几句。
And I'm gonna turn to Joey for a little bit.
对。
Yep.
那么，乔伊，你是在湾区长大的。
So, Joey, you grew up in in the Bay Area.
然后当你……
And when you...
我是说，你知道，你在这里长大，然后你最后去了
I mean, you know, you grew up here, and then you end up
伯克利，那是个很好的学校。
at Berkeley, is a great school.
但那是你原本的想法吗？
But was that was that your sort of idea?
你想留在这个地区吗？
You wanted to stay in this area?
你想……
You wanted to...
我想去一个能挑战我的好地方，想学工程，也想试试踢足球。
I wanted to go to a great place that challenged me, wanted to do engineering, and I also wanted to try and play soccer.
所以这两个因素最终引导我，通过排除法，来到了伯克利。
And so those are the two guiding factors that ended up leading me by deduction to get to Berkeley.
你足球踢得好吗？
Were you a good soccer player?
还行吧。
I was alright.
我后来一直在踢……
I ended up playing...
我在伯克利也踢球，直到受伤为止。
I played at Berkeley as well until I got injured.
哇。
Wow.
所以你小时候足球也踢得很好。
So you were also a great soccer player as a kid.
嗯，是的，
Well, yeah,
我们……
we we...
我和Tim会去巷子里，跟任何愿意跟我们比试的人较量。
Tim and go in the go in the alley and and challenge anyone that'll take us.
明白了。
Gotcha.
好的。
Okay.
行。
Alright.
所以，你读完了伯克利，然后你……
So you were, you finished Berkeley, and you...
那时候你想做什么呢？
What what do you wanna do with your life at that point?
我是说，22年、23年，随便吧。
I mean, know, '22, '23, whatever.
大多数人其实也不太清楚。
Most people don't really know.
你有没有想过，也许我会去读法学院？
Were you thinking maybe I'll go to law school?
也许我会做类似的事情，你知道的，或者你当时有没有大概的想法？
Maybe I'll do something like, you know, like that, or did you have a sense of what you wanna do?
你知道吗，我其实……
You know, I real...
我真的没有。
I really didn't.
然后到了某个时候，我就……
And then at some point, I I just...
我就抓住了商业咨询这个概念，我觉得当时它被推销给我，好像如果你不知道自己要做什么，这是体验很多事物的好方法。
I latched on to this concept of business consulting, which I think was marketed to me as if you don't know what you're doing, this is a great way to get a taste for a lot of things.
所以我就想，好吧。
So I was like, okay.
不错。
Cool.
听起来不错，因为我确实不知道自己想做什么。
That sounds good because I definitely don't know what I'm doing.
所以我就去参加了校园里那些小型宣讲会，觉得德勤这家公司听起来很棒。
And so I I just went to a couple of those little info sessions that they have on campus and thought this company, Deloitte, sounded amazing.
后来我就加入了德勤，进了他们的咨询部门。
I ended up jumping into there and and did their consulting group.
你知道吗，很多上过《How I Built This》节目的嘉宾都做过咨询工作。
You you know, a lot of people that we've had on How I Built This did consulting work.
他们看到了……
They they saw...
你知道，他们有过跨行业咨询的经验，也正是这样获得了他们的创意。
You know, they had experience sort of consulting with different industries, and that's sort of how they got their ideas.
你当时做的咨询工作主要是什么？
What was some of the consulting work you were doing?
可能对我影响最大的一次，是我为……工作的时候。
Probably my most transformative one was, I worked for...
有个客户是垃圾处理公司。
A a client was a garbage a garbage company.
那是全国第二大的垃圾处理公司。
It was the second largest garbage company in the country.
我当时负责……
And I was...
我负责燃油这块。
I looked at fuel.
我在研究一些比较冷门的东西，比如燃油附加费。
I was looking at something esoteric like fuel surcharges.
我在谈判各种卡车车队的合同。
And I was negotiating all these trucking fleet contracts.
我真的是在垃圾填埋场里谈生意的。
I was literally doing deals in landfills.
我会去垃圾填埋场，然后那里会……
I would go to a landfill, and it would...
你知道吗，你走进去，管理垃圾填埋场的那个人会说，没错。
You know, you'd walk in, and the guy who was running the landfill would be like, yep.
闻起来像钱的味道，因为那里真的很臭，但那就是他们认为的商业成功。
Smells like money because it would smell really bad, but that was what they thought was was business success.
这真的让我大开眼界。
And it was really it was really eye opening.
那里非常简陋，但我真的很喜欢那种感觉。
It was very scrappy, and it was it was something I I I actually really loved it.
后来我离开了咨询行业，因为我……
And and I ended up I ended up leaving consulting because I I...
那种早期创业的体验真的让我着迷。
That that really early taste of entrepreneurial business just got me...
而且在湾区，你几乎无法避免。
And and being in the Bay Area, you almost can't help it.
当然。
Sure.
你懂的，这大概是在2005年。
You kinda like and this was in, I guess, 2005.
然后我就迷上了通过商业来做环保这个概念，用商业做好事，为环境做点事。
And I latched onto this concept of environmentalism through business and using business for good and doing it for the environment.
所以我觉得商学院是个好机会，可以帮我理清兴趣，真正专注于进入那个领域。
And so I decided that business school would be a good opportunity to, kinda refine my interests and help really focus on getting into that sector.
所以我想你去
So I guess you go
了宾大，沃伦商学院。
to Penn, to the Warren School.
你会……
Would you...
我是说，商学院……
I mean, was business school...
你喜欢商学院吗？
Like, did you love business school?
商学院是不是就像一个沙盒，你在里面想，你知道吗，我就想在这里想出一些点子，然后出去把它实现？
Was business school like a sandbox where you thought, you know, I'm just gonna come up with some ideas and then get out of here and and create it?
是的，确实是这样。
Yes, actually.
我当时在寻找，和……
I was, searching with the...
和宾夕法尼亚大学所有的工程学院合作，想找一家清洁技术相关的公司，这样我就能帮助把技术从大学里带出来，然后创业。
All the engineering schools at Penn to find a clean tech oriented company that I could help take the technology out of the university and start the business.
而且我还有机会来到西海岸，当时大部分清洁技术类的业务都在那里发展……
And then I also got to just come out to the West Coast where most of the clean tech style of business was happening right now...
就在那个时候。
Right then.
当时主要是太阳能、风能、生物燃料、生物化学品，那也是一段很有塑造性的经历。
It was it was solar, wind, biofuels, biochemicals, and that was a big shaping experience too.
好的。
Alright.
所以你是……
So you are...
你MBA毕业之后，就去了……
You graduate with an MBA, and you went and got a job with a...
比如，一家在湾区的环保科技公司工作。
Like, an environmental technology company back in the Bay Area.
那家公司叫Solazyme，他们在生物燃料领域做的事情非常独特。
The company was called Solazyme, and Solazyme was doing something really unique, in the biofuel space.
他们用的是微藻，而且方法完全不一样。
They were using microalgae and and doing it in a totally different way.
他们是在巨大的发酵罐里培养这种微藻。
They were growing this microalgae in huge fermentation vessels.
我当时完全被这项技术吸引住了。
And I was completely captivated by the technology.
他们的愿景基本上就是成为全球液体燃料和化学品的新来源。
The vision was to basically be the the next source of of liquid fuel and chemicals for the entire world.
你可以从藻类中提取油，做成生物燃料。
You can make oil sort of a biofuel from algae.
你可以把它变成燃料，而且，你知道，如果我们能把技术做好，把成本降到有意义的水平，这对世界的影响可能会非常大。
You could turn it into fuel, and it was, you know, potentially incredibly high impact for the world if we could get the technology right and get the cost down to to a place that was meaningful.
那你的想法得到了什么样的回应？
What was the response to your your idea?
公司得到的回应非常热烈。
The response for the company was incredible.
我的意思是，我们当时……
I mean, we were...
我是2009年加入的，后来我们在2011年上市了。
I joined in 2009, and we ended up going public in 2011.
我们为这家公司筹集了超过十亿美元的资金。
We raised over $1,000,000,000 of money for the business.
哇。
Wow.
而且那确实是……
And it was it was...
它确实有机会做出一些了不起的事情。
It had a legitimate shot of of doing something special.
而且，你知道，在我快离开的时候，我觉得我学到了很多关于不该做什么的经验，最终，我认为，这毫无疑问是一个相当大的失败。
And, you know, towards the end of my my time there, I think I learned a huge amount about what not to do, and it ended up, I I think, unequivocally being being a a pretty big failure.
什么失败了？
What what was a failure?
整个公司。
The entire business.
它后来……
It it got...
它破产了，之后被收购，只留下了一些技术残余。
It it went bankrupt and then has been acquired since for some of the remnants of the technology.
所以每一个……
So every...
所以基本上，投资者在那上面亏了钱。
So the investors lost their money on that, essentially.
亏了很多钱。
A lot of money.
你和那些对那家公司投入了承诺的人，可能也损失了不少。
And you and the other people who made a commitment to that company probably lost out as well.
因为你可能拿到了一些股权，然后呢？
Because you probably got some equity and then?
当然。
Sure.
我的意思是，我们当时可能梦想着发财。
I mean, we we we had dreams of of fortunes, I suppose.
但是，是的，我从那段经历中学到的东西非常宝贵。
But but, yeah, what what I took away from that experience was incredibly rich.
在那段经历快结束的时候，我开始四处寻找各种不同的机会，因为我已经明确了自己想做什么，而且我看到了我认为可以打造一种不同类型的公司的路径，那种公司的产出真的能产生很大的影响。
And towards the end of that, I started looking around at a ton of different opportunities because I had refined what I wanted to do, and I and I saw what I thought was a path to make a different kind of a company where the output of that business was really high impact.
好的，乔伊。
Okay, Joey.
我们先暂停一下。
Let's just just pause for a sec.
我想把话题转回你，蒂姆，因为你最终从辛辛那提大学毕业，然后你去了，我猜是弗吉尼亚，踢职业足球，半职业了一段时间。
I wanna turn turn back to you, Tim, because you eventually would would graduate from from the University of Cincinnati, and then you went to, I guess, to Virginia to to play soccer professionally, semi professionally for a while.
但后来你回到新西兰踢职业足球。
But then you eventually go back and play professional soccer in New Zealand.
我发现自己签了一份多年合同，在家乡从事职业体育，我成为了新西兰队的一员，这支球队的目标是晋级2010年世界杯，我当时正朝着这个目标前进。
And I found myself signed on a multi year deal to play professional sport in my hometown, and I was now a part of a New Zealand team that had set its target of qualifying for the World Cup in 2010, and I was I was kind of on my way.
哇。
Wow.
我不是最快的，也不是技术最好的，但我找到了一条路，可以让我把几件事做得非常出色。
And I wasn't the quickest and I wasn't the most technical, but I'd found a way where I could carve out a career that involved me doing a couple things really, really well.
是哪几件事？
What what were they?
就是保持体能，到处跑动，踢人、铲球，把球从对手脚下抢过来，然后传给队里技术好的球员。
Being fit and running around a lot, kicking people, and tackling people and getting the ball off the opponents and giving it to the good players on our team.
你是后卫吗？
You were a defender?
我是中场，但我你知道，我承担了一些防守职责，主要是铲球、拼抢、跑动抢球，然后还要负责进球。
I was a midfielder, but but I you know, I had a a kind of a a sort of a defensive responsibility that was about tackling and about aggression and about running around and getting the ball, and then it was about scoring goals.
你是不是经常被判犯规？
Were you getting lots of penalties called against you?
是的。
I were.
你是不是
Were you
被罚下
getting kicked out of
场？
games?
因为你给我的印象不像是个有攻击性的人，
Because you don't strike me as an aggressive kinda guy,
但我是的。
but I yeah.
那种竞争心在我心里燃烧着。
The competitiveness was something that burned in me.
为了赢，什么都愿意做，你知道，那是我骨子里的东西。我花了一段时间才意识到这一点，但它确实存在，我就是好胜。
Whatever it took to win, that's, you know, that was within me, and it took a little while to realize that, but it was it was there, and I I just was competitive.
所以你那时候……
So you were...
我是说，那是在你二十多岁到三十多岁的时候。
I mean, this is in your sort of twenties and into your thirties.
你有没有……
Did...
比如说，你是怎么考虑规划你的人生的？
Like, how did you think about structuring your life?
你有没有想过，好吧。
Did you think, okay.
我会踢足球，然后进入足球管理之类的行业？
I'll play soccer, and then I'll get into, like, soccer management or something like that?
你知道吗，我其实没想过这个问题。
You know, I I hadn't thought about that.
我可能一开始……
I'd...
我可能一开始……
I was probably starting...
我当时一心只想着这个……
I was singularly focused on this...
专注于体育事业，而且我赚得比那些上了大学、做咨询工作的朋友还多，这第一次让我觉得它是一份工作。
On the sporting career, and, you know, I was being paid a good living better than my friends that had gone to university and were getting consulting jobs, and it became a job for the first time.
哇。
Wow.
我尝到了为国家队效力的滋味，也明白了那意味着什么。
And I got a taste of playing for my country and what that meant.
我们有一小群球员意识到，我们有机会冲击世界杯，这……
We, you know, we had a small group of players that realized that we had a a a potential shot at a World Cup, and it...
正是那个特别的目标，激励我熬过职业体育中那些单调乏味的日常，不断前进，不断进步，不断努力，因为前方有更大的奖赏，也有更宏大的使命感。
That was the the special source that drove me to kind of get through the the humdrum, you know, routine of professional sport and keep driving and keep improving and keep working because there was this larger prize there and this larger sense of purpose.
那个奖赏就是打进2010年南非世界杯吗？
And the prize was getting to the World Cup in South Africa in 2010?
为了我的国家。
For my country.
但我想，这也是你人生中开始萌生Allbirds想法的时期吧。
But this was also the period in your life, I guess, when you sort of start to come up with the idea for what would become Allbirds.
我……
I...
还有一件很酷的事，就是我拿到了一家大型运动用品公司的赞助合同，这家公司我就不点名了。
One of the other cool things that happened is I got a sponsorship deal from one of the big sportswear companies that shall not be named.
而且我……
And I...
那一刻感觉挺特别的。
That felt like a moment.
我可以走进店里，想要什么就拿什么。
And I could go into the shop and get what I wanted.
真的吗？
Really?
但我那时候一直穿着带标志的衣服。
But I was wearing logos all the time.
作为一个……
And as a...
我是个极简主义者。
I was a I was a minimalist.
我还记得……
And I remember still...
我爸爸可能从我爸爸那里学来的，就是把衣服上的标志拆下来。
My dad probably got this from my dad, like, picking logos off off clothes.
所以这个想法就是……
And so the idea that this was...
我穿的衣服上到处都是标志，确实。
There was logos over everything that I was wearing Sure.
这就像是一种奇怪……
Was just like this weird...
这真是件奇怪的事。
It was this weird thing.
这完全违背了我从辛辛那提大学学到的设计理念，那是我根深蒂固的观念。
Completely the antithesis of everything I stood for from a from a design point of view that had been ingrained to me at the the University of Cincinnati.
我想另一件事是，我下午有空。
And I guess the other thing that was happening is I I just had a...
我下午有空。
I had my afternoons free.
我早上训练，非常专注于运动，但有很多空闲时间。
I was training in the morning, and I was incredibly focused on sport, but I had a lot of free time.
于是我开始对这个特定问题产生好奇，尤其是在鞋类方面。
And so I started to get curious about about this particular problem, particularly in in footwear.
什么问题？
The problem of?
就是简单的东西的问题。
The problem of something simple.
很难找到。
It was impossible to find.
在新西兰，这有点……
And in New Zealand, it was sort of.
就像那种好看的懒人鞋之类的。
Just like a nice slip on or something.
比如系带的运动鞋。
Like a lace up sneaker.
要么上面有标志，要么你就买一双匡威查克泰勒。
It either had logos on it or you bought you bought a a Chuck Taylor.
然后还有……
And there was...
选择不多。
There wasn't too much.
而查克泰勒……
And Chuck Taylor's...
它们很好，但不太舒服。
They're great, but they're not super comfy.
就是……
It was.
我……
I...
就是那种鞋。
It was one of those ones.
我看到了一个属于我自己的问题。
I I just saw a problem that was that was my own.
我没有写商业计划书。
I didn't write a business plan.
所以在我某个足球赛季的休赛期，我记得大概是2008、2009年，你知道，年底会有一个月的假期，你可以去休息一下。
And so in the off season of one of my soccer seasons, I wanna say it was the 2008, 2009, you know, you get a month off at the end of the year where you kinda go off and you rest.
然后我在网上找到了一家鞋厂，去参观了一下。
And I found a a footwear factory online, and I went and visited one.
在哪里？
Where was it?
在印度尼西亚。
It was in Indonesia.
所以你是认真的。
So you were serious.
你当时是怎么想的？
You were like, what?
不是。
No.
不是。
No.
我就要去做这个。
I'm gonna go build this.
你当时就是，我要做一双舒服的鞋。
You're you're like, I'm gonna build a comfortable shoe.
那时候跟舒不舒服没关系。
It wasn't about comfort at that time.
那是一个关于设计上的观察，我觉得那个品类太复杂、太拥挤，而且到处都是logo。
It was a design it was a design observation about a category that I thought was super complicated and overcrowded and over logoed.
然后你就说，我想做一双高帮鞋，就像匡威那种，但没有logo？
And you just said, I wanna make a shoe that's a sort of a high top, like a Chuck Taylor without logos?
我就要去做。
I'm gonna I'm gonna go do it.
就这么简单。
It was that simple.
我试着在新西兰做这件事，结果发现那个行业早就没了，根本没人生产。
And I tried to do it in New Zealand and realized that that industry had long since disappeared from from from Nobody was manufacturing.
全都在亚洲。
It was all in it was all in Asia.
全都在中国。
It was all in in China.
然后我……
And I...
所以我就说，好吧。
And so I said, okay.
那我们就去看看能不能做成。
Well, let's go let's go see see if we can do this.
我大大低估了做鞋的复杂程度，我相信乔伊也能作证。
And I had greatly underestimated as I'm sure Joey would attest how complicated it is actually to make a shoe.
顺便问一下，你
By the way, did you
会缝纫吗？
know how to sew?
我是说，你大概学过吧。
I mean, you probably learned that.
你在设计学校没学过吗？
You didn't learn that in design school?
没有。
No.
但是你会
But but you
打版。
make patterns.
然后裁剪。
You cut them out.
就是说，你当时对怎么做没有概念，对吧？
Like, you didn't have a sense of how to
我们当时只有两张这个款式的二维图纸，还有一些我觉得比较接近的鞋子的照片。
We had, like, two d drawings that we made of just this form, and I had photos of other examples of of shoes that I thought were kinda close.
但也就这些了。
But that was it.
我当时想，你知道，你可以去做这个。
And I thought, know, you could go make this.
而且我觉得，如果你能做出来，就能卖出去。
And I think if if you could make it, you could sell it.
这里可能有个生意机会。
And there's potentially a business here.
而且我开始对创业、建立公司、制造东西这些想法越来越感兴趣。
And I I had started to get really, really interested in this idea of entrepreneurialism and building a business and of making things.
这就是你为什么现在还踢足球的原因吗？
This is why you're why you're still a soccer player?
还是足球运动员。
Still a soccer player.
我大概百分之八十的心思都在世界杯上。
And I'm I'm kinda 80% folks, I mean, on the World Cup.
就像，那
Like, that
是的。
was Yeah.
我猜也是。
I bet.
那就是一切。
That was everything.
那是训练。
It was training.
那是饮食。
It was diet.
那时候真的没有太多别的空间，但这是我的精神寄托。
There was there was not room for much else, but this was my mental escape.
那是2009年。
This was in 2009.
你其实要到五年后才真正开始做鞋，这个我们后面会讲到。
You would not actually really start to make a shoe for, like, five more years later, which we'll get to.
不。
No.
其实也不是。
I'm not not really.
我一开始就做鞋了。
I I made I made shoes straight away.
你一开始就做鞋了？
You made shoes straight away?
然后我把鞋卖给了队友。
And I sold them to my teammates.
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好的。
Okay.
所以，你是在这家工厂做的？
So so you made them at this factory?
我是在这家工厂做的，然后鞋就到了。
I made them at this factory, and they showed up.
我之前见过
And I had seen
你订了多少双？
How how many did you order?
我觉得第一次应该没有一千双。
I don't think it was a thousand pairs the first time.
你订了一千双这种鞋。
You ordered a thousand pairs of these shoes.
所以你真的把所有的钱都投进去了
So you actually put all your cash into
就投在这上面了？
this thing?
投了一部分钱进去，我哥也帮我卖了一些。
Some cash into it, and my brother was helping me with with with some of the selling.
这些鞋是用什么做的？
What were they made out
什么材料？
of?
帆布，还有一些皮革。
Canvas and, you know, some leather.
还有一些新西兰的皮革，是我从那边运过来的。那又是一次让我大开眼界的经历，我第一次走进制革厂，才开始明白那种材料有多糟糕。
Some New Zealand leather that I was shipping over, which was another eye opening experience where I walked into a tannery for the first time and started to understand, like, how bad that material is.
制作皮革要用的那些化学品。
All the chemicals that go into making leather leather.
也让我大致了解了这些材料是从哪里来的。
And just understand generally, you know, where these materials were coming from.
我记得样品寄过来的时候。
And I remember the samples would come.
打开箱子，那股味道扑面而来，真是的。
And you'd open the box, it would smell like just Yeah.
哎。
Ugh.
我觉得这让我开始想尝试不同的材料。
I think that opened up the idea of exploring different materials.
你的鞋叫什么名字？
What were your shoes called?
那时候，我记得名字是……
At that particular time, I think the name was...
是我名字的首字母。
Were my initials.
就是两个B。
It was, like, two b.
而且这个想法就是做一款没有标志、穿着舒服的帆布鞋。
And and the idea was a no logo shoe that was comfortable, made out of canvas.
当时有
There was a
几种不同的款式。
couple of different styles.
有高帮的，也有低帮的，我把它们卖给了我的队友。
There was a high top and a low top, and I sold them to my teammates.
大概40美元？
For, like, $40?
不是。
No.
我让他们付全价。
I made them pay full price.
然后怎么
And How
那要多少钱？
much was that?
我记得是100到150美元。
I think it was a 100 and $150.
那你卖出去了，但不可能卖出一千双吧。
And so you sold them, but you couldn't have sold a thousand pairs.
我们在惠灵顿办了个快闪店，你知道，我觉得那是对这个品类兴趣的开始。
We did a we did a pop up shop in Wellington, and, you know, I I think it was the beginning of of an interest in this category.
因为在卖鞋的过程中，我也意识到，设计故事只是其中一部分。
Because I I realized too in the process of selling of selling the shoes, the design story was was one part of it.
我觉得它引起了人们的共鸣，但还需要更多，无论是对我还是对产品来说。
I think it resonated with people, but it needed something more, both for me and for the product.
产品还行，但没什么特色。
The product was okay, but it wasn't it wasn't differentiated.
而且，你知道，我记得有一天读了一本关于新西兰羊毛产业的杂志，我们其实已经……
And, you know, I I think I remember reading a magazine one day about the wool industry in New Zealand, and we'd actually...
我们在一些运动鞋的外面试了羊毛毡，我当时就想，天哪，为什么鞋子不用羊毛呢？如果我们能做到会怎么样？
We'd put some wool felt, experimented on some wool felt on the outside of some of the sneakers, and I was like, gosh, wouldn't it why is wool not used in shoes, and what if we could do that?
那会非常有意思。
That would be hugely interesting.
然后
And
所以，在几个朋友的帮助下，我一时兴起申请了一笔资助，用来开发一种用于制作鞋面的羊毛纺织品。
so I, you know, with the help of, you know, some some friends at the time, put together a grant on a whim to develop a woolen textile for for making the upper of a shoe.
你向新西兰政府申请了
You applied to the New Zealand government
羊毛资助委员会。
for wool funding board.
好的。
Okay.
而且确实成功了。
And it was.
去研究怎么
To research how you
把羊毛变成鞋子？
could turn wool into shoes?
去真正做出那种面料。
To to actually make that textile.
好的。
Okay.
因为这种面料以前不存在。
Because it didn't exist.
而且，你知道，我觉得这背后的背景是，新西兰可能以有很多羊而闻名。
And, you know, I think the backdrop and the context around this was that New Zealand's probably famous for having lots of sheep.
这是新西兰一个非常重要的传统产业，但经历了一段非常非常艰难的时期。
And it's a hugely important legacy industry in New Zealand that has gone through a really, really tough time.
而且，你知道，我觉得他们当时在寻找新的想法和新的品类，而我们正好在对的时间、对的地点，碰巧想到了一个可能显而易见但以前没人做过的点子，然后我们运气不错。
And, you know, I think they were searching for new ideas and new categories, and it was kind of right time, right place with a random, maybe obvious idea that hadn't been done before, and and we got lucky.
所以，大概在世界杯前后，这个资助项目……
And so, probably around the world cup a little bit before, this grant...
基督城的这个研究实验室开始尝试为我们制作一种面料。
This research lab in Christchurch set about trying to make a fabric for us.
等等。
So wait.
这一切都发生在你们队终于打进世界杯的同时？
All of this is happening at the same time that your team is is finally qualifying for the World Cup?
是的。
Yes.
所以这是新西兰历史上第二次打进世界杯。
So it was the second time New Zealand has ever qualified for the World Cup.
第一次是1982年，第二次是2010年。
So the first time in 982 and the second time in 2010.
所以那是一件大事。
So that was a big deal.
你们有没有通过第一轮比赛？
Did did you guys get past the the first round?
我们保持不败。
We were undefeated.
我们是世界杯上唯一一支不败的球队。
We're the only undefeated team at the World Cup.
因为？
Because?
我们三场平局，没能从小组出线。
We drew three games and didn't get out of our pool.
然后西班牙赢得了世界杯，而且……
And Spain won the World Cup, and...
但那也是……
But it was...
那是一个巨大的成就。
That was an enormous achievement.
而且这支新西兰队，我是说，当时是有排名的。
And this was a New Zealand team that, I mean, was ranked.
我觉得我们是世界杯上最小的国家。
I think we were the the smallest nation at the World Cup.
我们排名最低。
We were the lowest ranked.
我们去了那里，而且，我是说，光是出线就已经很了不起了。
And we went in there, and, I mean, even to qualify was enormous.
哇。
Wow.
所以……
So...
好的。
Okay.
我想请……
I wanna bring...
乔，我想把你拉回这个话题。
Joe, I wanna bring you back into the conversation.
好的。
Yep.
因为蒂姆在打世界杯的时候，你在做什么呢？
Because while Tim was playing in the World Cup, what what were you up to?
嘿。
Hey.
你知道吗，那差不多就是我们认识的时候。
You know, that was actually just about the time when we met.
然后……
And...
你们是怎么认识的？
How did you meet?
嗯，蒂姆当时开始和一个叫林赛的女士约会，后来他娶了她。
Well, Tim Tim had started dating a lady named Lindsay, who he has subsequently married.
美国人。
American.
她来自纽约。
She's from New York.
你是怎么认识林赛的？
How did how did you meet Lindsay?
我们是在一场婚礼上认识的。
We'd, we'd met each other at a at a wedding.
我回来拜访一位辛辛那提的老队友，去参加他们的婚礼，顺便去纽约见了一些朋友，然后在一次晚宴上坐在了林赛旁边。
I'd come back to visit one of my old, teammates from Cincinnati and gone to their wedding and, stopped by to see some friends in New York and, sat next to to Lindsay at a at a dinner.
林赛，乔伊，林赛认识你。
And Lindsay, Joey, Lindsay knew you.
我认识林赛是因为，大概在2000年，那个年代早期，林赛和我的妻子莉兹是大学室友，也是同宿舍楼的。哦，哇。
I knew I knew Lindsay because, back in, maybe 2000, early early part of that decade, Lindsay and Liz, my wife, were roommates and dormmates in college at Oh, wow.
所以她们已经是非常亲密的朋友，超过十年了。
And so they'd they'd been super close friends for well over a decade.
所以我认识了林赛，当林赛带蒂姆来介绍给我们认识时，我觉得他是个挺不错的人。
So I got to meet Lindsay, and when when Lindsay came around and introduced us to Tim, I thought he was a pretty good bloke.
所以你们之前见过，但你们各自忙各自的。
So you guys had met, but you were doing your own thing.
他在踢足球，你只是觉得他是个好人。
He was playing soccer, and you just thought he was a nice guy.
蒂姆，你从足球界退役是在
Tim, you you retire from football, from soccer in
2012年。
2012.
我去了世界杯，经历很棒，然后我意识到，这……
I go to the World Cup, and I have this great experience, and I realized, like, this...
这就是终点。
That's the end of this.
这是我退场的时候，我撕毁了一份两年的合同。
This is this is the the moment where I depart scene left and I I tore up a two year contract.
而且我……
And I'd...
那时候，回去上学、学那些我以前躲着的科目，这个想法挺有意思的。而且我一直想回伦敦，我出生在那儿，我爸也是那儿的人。
At this time, the idea of going back to school and studying all the subjects that I'd avoided was interesting, and I I'd always wanted to go back to London where I was born and where my father was from.
所以能回去读书，这既是某种程度上离开体育圈的一种方式，也是最好的方式，而且你知道，这也是一个机会，可以退一步，开始人生的新篇章。
And so the idea of being able to go back there and and study was was both a way out of sport in some ways and the best of ways and, you know, and and the the opportunity to kind of step back and and start this next chapter.
所以你决定去伦敦政治经济学院读个学位，心里还想着做鞋这个点子？
So you decide to do a degree at the London School of Economics with this idea for a shoe in your mind?
而且我有一点做鞋的知识，所以你知道，我做了……对。
And I had a little bit of shoe making knowledge, so, you know, I I made Sure.
做了几双鞋。
Couple of couple of shoes
做了一千双鞋。
Made a thousand shoes.
然后我就去了，在伦敦政治经济学院上了头几个学期，之后又去了西北大学的凯洛格商学院。
And I showed up and and and did the first couple of semesters at LSE and then went off to Kellogg at Northwestern.
而且你在那里的时候，那个学期，你可以选你想要的课。
And you were able to take the pick of classes that that, you know, that you wanted through the the quarter that you were there, the period that that you were there.
所以我看到了……
So I saw...
所以我到了埃文斯顿，走进了一堂创业课，老师叫卡特·卡斯特，他以前是沃尔玛网站的CEO，是个很特别的教授。
So I show up at Evanston, and I walk into an entrepreneurship class with a professor called Carter Cast, who is a former CEO of walmart.com and this, you know, pretty special professor there.
他发了封邮件说，每个人都要来，而且你有三分钟时间向全班推销一个想法。
And he'd sent an email out, and he said, everyone has to come in and that you've got three minutes to pitch an idea to the class.
然后我们会根据最好的十个想法组队，整个学期你们就围绕这个商业想法去做。
And we will form teams around the best 10 ideas, and for the whole, you know, quarter, you will you will go after this business idea.
我进去推销了羊毛鞋的想法，我觉得大家觉得这有点像个笑话。
And I came in and I pitched the idea of wool shoes, and I think people thought it was a little bit of a joke.
但不管怎样，它被选中了，我发现自己三个月都沉浸在这个想法里。
But for whatever reason, it got selected, I found myself immersed for three months in On this idea.
在这个想法上。
On this idea.
哇。
Wow.
而且，真的，你知道，实际上把这个想法变成一个生意。
And truly, you know, actually building this into a business.
所以这个羊毛鞋的想法，你从2009年就开始琢磨了，现在到了2012、2013年，它开始有点起色了。
So this idea of wool shoes, which which you'd really been toying with since 2009, Now around 2012, 2013, it's starting to to get some traction.
但我想知道，我是说，我们……
But but I wonder, I mean, we're...
比如，有没有人说过，你怎么把扎人的羊毛变成鞋子的？
Like, was anyone saying, like, how do you turn scratchy wool into into shoes?
每个人都这么说过。
Everyone said that.
但这个想法有点特别，人们会说，哦，对。
But there was something about the idea that people sort of said, oh, yeah.
为什么不是这样呢？
Why's that not
怎么没人做过呢？
been done?
但你是怎么跟别人描述这个想法的？
But how did you describe it to people?
因为我要跟你说，Tim，我完全不明白。
Because I'm saying to you, Tim, I don't get it.
你看，这是我的羊毛衫。
Like, here's my wool sweater.
我怎么把它变成鞋子呢？
How do I translate that into shoes?
你会怎么描述呢？
How how would you describe it?
我……
I...
嗯，首先，我意识到羊毛在美国人眼里就是又热又扎人。
Well, first of all, I I realized that wool to Americans meant hot and scratchy.
所以突然间，你不得不开始谈论美利奴羊毛。
So all of a sudden, you actually had to talk about merino.
好的。
Okay.
它的形状不一样。
It's a different shape.
形状确实不一样。
It's a different Different shape.
对。
Okay.
而且它的材质更细、更柔软，然后你还得不仅谈论材质本身，还得谈论这种材质的好处。
And it's a finer material and it's softer and and and then you also had to talk about not just the material, you actually had to talk about the benefits of the material.
那为什么呢？
So why?
如果你要这么做，肯定是有原因的。
If you're gonna do this, there must be a reason.
原因就是羊毛有这些神奇的特性。
And the reason is because wool has these miraculous properties.
然后人们就觉得，哦，这挺有意思的。
And then people were like, okay, that's interesting.
然后为了什么……
And then for what...
尽管很多人对这个想法嗤之以鼻，而且这一直是个持续的话题，我觉得在某种程度上，他们还是说，这挺有意思的。
As as much as people kind of laughed at the idea, and this has been a consistent thread, I think on some level, they sort of said, that's interesting.
然后……
And...
但我上完那门课，你知道，我在凯洛格待了一段时间后飞回伦敦，决定要在Kickstarter上推出羊毛鞋。
But I got the end of that course, and, you know, I flew back to to London after my time at Kellogg and decided I was gonna launch wool shoes on Kickstarter.
好的。
Okay.
但是……
But...
所以要在Kickstarter上做项目，就像你在2014年做的那样，但要在Kickstarter上做项目，你得有原型，还得准备很多东西。
So to do something on Kickstarter, which you did in 2014, but to do something on Kickstarter, you need to have the prototype, you need to have a lot of things.
你当时有没有……
Had you...
它……
What it...
它是什么……
What was it...
它叫什么名字？
What was it called?
是叫Allbirds吗？
Was it called Allbirds?
不是。
No.
它叫……
It was...
到了这个阶段，我又给它改了名字。
At this stage, I'd I'd renamed it again.
我又试了一次起名，最后叫“三比七”，而且设计会非常非常简洁。
It took another crack at naming, and it was called three over seven, and it was gonna be very, very, you know, simple design
好的。
Okay.
原创。
Original.
而且会用这种新材料，用羊毛来做。
And and it was gonna be made out of wool with this this new material.
明白。
Alright.
那……
So...
但是要上Kickstarter，你还是得跟人家保证你能把产品送到他们手上。
But to get a Kickstarter, you still have to promise people that you're gonna deliver them the I
我在谷歌上又找到了一家工厂。
found another factory on Google.
在哪里？
Where was it?
这次在葡萄牙。
In Portugal this time.
我飞过去看了，那是一家很小的工厂。
And I'd flown over, it was a tiny factory.
我做了，我想大概做了八双样品。
And I'd made, I think I think it was eight pairs of samples.
然后我回新西兰过圣诞节，拍了一个……
And I went home to New Zealand for Christmas, and I shot a...
我需要拍一个视频。
I I needed to shoot a video.
好。
K.
我跟我爸的一个朋友约好了，他有个养羊的农场，就在……
And I'd organized with my dad's friend who owned a sheep farm not...
就在惠灵顿郊外。
Just outside of Wellington.
我们只有一天时间来做这件事。
We have one day to do this.
好。
K.
我记得那天早上到了我爸朋友那里……
And my dad's friend, I remember showing up on the morning of...
他去赶了一群羊来，好让它们出现在视频背景里，而我差点就放弃了。
He went and got a bunch of sheep so they could be in the backdrop of this video, and I very nearly pulled out.
我当时在写脚本，就是……
I was writing this script, and I just...
就是那种你觉得这很傻的时刻。
It was one of those moments where you think this is dumb.
这肯定不行。
This is not gonna work.
然后我哥硬是把我拽到了农场，说，就去做吧。
And my brother literally dragged me along to the farm and said, just do it.
最坏能怎样呢？
What's the worst that can happen?
于是我们就继续了，拍了视频，最后发起了众筹。
And so we we went we went ahead with it and shot a shot a video and ultimately launched the Kickstarter.
2014年3月上线了。
It went live on March 2014.
所以你拍了视频，说，嘿，我是蒂姆，我想跟你聊聊美利奴羊毛和我打算做的鞋子。
So you make the video and you say, hey, I'm Tim, and and I wanna tell you a little bit about merino wool and the shoes that I'm gonna create.
我追着羊跑了一会儿，是的。
And I chased some sheep around, and it's Yeah.
有点……
It's a little...
有点像那种《协奏曲》的感觉吧。
It's kind of a little flood of the concords esque maybe.
我也不太清楚。
I don't know.
有点怪，又有点好笑，然后……
A little weird and funny and...
但尽量把重点放在，你知道的，为什么这个不一样，为什么它重要，然后点击发布。
But try to really hone in on on sort of, you know, why this is different and why it matters and and click live on it.
我当时回到伦敦，记得手机突然开始响个不停。
And I was back in London, and I remember my phone just started going going
你发布到Kickstarter上的时候？
When you put on Kickstarter?
我发布到Kickstarter上，然后被一些新西兰媒体注意到了。
I put on Kickstarter and got picked up by some New Zealand media.
好的。
Okay.
然后它就上了Kickstarter的首页，还进了他们的邮件列表，他们会发一些有趣的项目。
And then it went on the Kickstarter's homepage and and on their mailing list where they send out sort of interesting projects.
然后四天之内就筹到了两万美元，我不得不停下来，因为我没有足够的...
And it went to a 100 and, you know, $20,000 in four days, and I had to stop it because I didn't have enough...
那是...
That was the...
对。
Is Yeah.
我不得不停下来，我当时就想，天哪。
And I had to I had to stop this thing, and I was like, oh my gosh.
我简直不敢相信。
I can't believe this
是没有足够的羊毛。
is didn't have enough wool.
然后Lynn把它发给了她所有的朋友，说，嘿，我男朋友在做这个项目，也许你们可以支持他。
And Lynn's had had sent this out to all her friends and, you know, hey, you know, my my boyfriend's doing this this project, and maybe you could support him.
而且乔伊是最早的那批客户之一。
And and Joey was one of the the early earliest customers.
那你当时是……
And what was your...
你得付多少钱？
What would you have to pay?
大概一百美元？
Like, a $100,100 bucks?
当时是一百美元或者一百二十美元。
It was a $100,100 dollars or a $120.
一百二十美元。
A $120
就能买到一双这样的鞋。
is gonna get you a pair of these shoes.
这是有史以来第一双羊毛跑鞋。
First wool runners ever created.
这是有史以来第一双羊毛跑鞋。
First wool runners ever created.
好的。
Alright.
所以你们做了众筹。
So you do the Kickstarter.
你们……
You con...
你们是出资人之一。
You're one of the contributors.
乔伊、蒂姆，你们筹到的钱比需要的多，然后……
Joey, Tim, you raise more money than you need and and...
这听起来是好事，但实际上并不是？
Which sounds like a great thing, but actually it wasn't?
实际上压力很大？
It was it was actually stressful?
哦，我只是……
Oh, I just...
那真是那种时刻，有时候从外面看，当你取得了最大的成功时，那恰恰是你最不确定或者最害怕的时候，我记得我当时很害怕。
It it was one of those moments that sometimes from the outside when you've you've had the moment of greatest success, that's the the moment where you're most unsure or you're most scared, and I remember being scared.
就像，我们现在必须去兑现承诺并执行，而且这将会非常非常困难。
Like, we have to go deliver on this now and execute it, and and and this is gonna be really, really hard.
稍后我们回来时，会讲到蒂姆如何向乔伊求助，以及乔伊如何从顾客变成合伙人，帮助打造出价值十亿美元的Allbirds品牌。
When we come back in just a moment, how Tim reached out to Joey for help, and how Joey went from being customer to a partner to helping build Allbirds into a billion dollar brand.
请继续收听。
Stay with us.
我是盖伊·拉兹，您正在收听的是NPR的《我是如何打造这个的》。
I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to How I Built This from NPR.
嘿。
Hey.
欢迎回到NPR的《我是如何打造这个的》。
Welcome back to How I Built This from NPR.
我是盖伊·拉兹。
I'm Guy Raz.
时间来到2014年，蒂姆·布朗在Kickstarter上推出了他的羊毛鞋创意。
So it's 2014, and Tim Brown has launched his idea for a new kind of wool shoe on Kickstarter.
人们立刻就有了反应。
And people respond right away.
短短几天内，他们就筹集了12万美元，这意味着蒂姆现在得赶紧行动起来，开始处理订单。
They raise a $120,000 in just a few days, which means that Tim now needs to get to work fast to start filling orders.
我当时有几个年轻小伙子帮我干活，我们在伦敦找了个小办公室，你知道，我大概花了最糟糕的一年时间想把这件事做成。
I had a couple of young guys kind of working for me and we'd found a little office space in in London and, you know, I spent probably the worst year trying to make this thing happen.
为什么是最糟糕的一年？
Why was it the worst year?
哦，我是说，你能想到的所有错误都犯了。
Oh, mean, every mistake you could imagine.
我记得那个年轻小伙子去了工厂，有一天他打电话给我说，我们遇到麻烦了。
And I remember the the the factory, the young guy had gone over to the factory and he called me up one day and he goes, we got a problem.
工厂把男鞋和女鞋做成了完全一样的尺码。
The factory's made the men's and women's shoes exactly the same size.
我说，那可就麻烦了。
I go, that's that's bad.
就像，大概有一码半的差距……
Like a there's like a one and a half...
差别还挺大的。
There's quite a big difference.
确实。
Sure.
那我们该怎么办？
What are we gonna do?
我们别无选择。
We've got no choice.
我们只能……
We're gonna have to just gonna have to...
我们只能把这些鞋子发出去了。
We're just gonna have to send these out.
乔伊，你是那个众筹活动的客户吧。
Joey, you are a customer of that Kickstarter campaign.
我就是那些幸运客户之一，订了男款10码，结果收到的是女款10码。
I was I was one of the lucky customers who ordered a men's 10 and got a women's 10.
那……那还行吗？
And And it was fine?
不行。
No.
哦，这样啊。
Oh, okay.
完全不行。
It was not fine.
那确实挺糟糕的。
It was a pretty bad thing too.
然后我联系客服的时候，客服是蒂姆·布朗，他就建议我把鞋垫拿出来，腾点空间……
And and when I when I ping customer service, which was Tim Brown, he just recommended that I take out the insole and make a little room...
给自己腾点空间。
More room for myself.
哇，这样啊。
So Wow.
我们……
We...
我们……
We've...
而且因为他没有更多的羊毛了，所以也没法换货或者什么的。
And since he didn't have any more wool, there was no exchanges or anything like that.
所以……
So...
你能给我解释一下吗？
Can you can you explain something to me?
你在Kickstarter上筹到12万美元，听起来很厉害，钱也不少，但可能还不够支付你要完成的那些订单。
When you make a $120,000 off Kickstarter, which sounds amazing, that's a lot of cash, it probably did not pay for all of the orders you had to fulfill.
整个事情就是……
The whole thing was was a was
从财务上讲，差得远。
Financially, was not close.
所以我一直在动用我的积蓄，那时候积蓄也快花光了，而且我还住在伦敦。
So And I was tapping into my my savings that were rapidly dwindling at the time and living in London.
然后就在那件事快结束的时候，我们差不多……
And and then right at the end of that, we'd sort of...
葡萄牙的工厂在快结束的时候决定破产，就在我们刚交付完不久。
The factory in Portugal decided to go bankrupt right at the end of this, shortly after we just delivered it.
所以我们原本想再做一些，把生意做起来，进入下一个阶段的想法……
So the idea that we we were gonna kinda try and make more and build this business and go forward to the next phase of things
我不得不紧急飞往葡萄牙，去工厂抢救那10米的羊毛。
I I had to do a mercy dash to Portugal to go rescue the 10 meters of wool from the factory.
好的。
Okay.
当你完成那些订单后，你有没有想过，好吧。
When you finished fulfilling those orders, were you like, okay.
现在我得创立一个公司了，还是你当时想……
Now I've gotta create a business, or were you like...
嗯，我是说，我当时……
Well, I I mean, I was...
还是你觉得自己受够了？
Or you're like, I'm done with this.
其实介于两者之间吧。那一年对我来说特别糟糕。我经常和Lyns还有她的朋友们一起吃饭，他们当时三十出头，正处于事业上升期。我们出去吃饭时，大家会轮流聊近况，我特别害怕轮到我，因为人们总会问我在做什么。
It's kind of somewhere in between, and I that year was awful, and it was I would find myself at dinners with Lyns and her friends who are kind of early thirties now at the stage of their career where things are starting to take off, and we'd go out for dinner and we'd go around the table and I would just I would dread when it would come to me and people would ask what I was doing.
Lyns会取笑我，因为我一说到这个就会缩成一团，然后小声说“羊毛鞋”。每次吃完饭离开时，大家都会拍拍我的头说：“真不错，你在做这个小项目，祝你好运。”那感觉真的很糟糕。而且我也越来越清楚，一个人做这件事太难了，我有些方面擅长，但也有很多方面不擅长。
Would Lynds would make fun because my body would curl up into a little ball and I would sort of say wool shoes and when we'd leave the dinner people would pat me on the head and say that's lovely that you're pursuing this little thing and good luck with that little fella and it was just it was awful and it became clear too that doing this by yourself was really hard and that I was good at some aspects of it and there was a bunch of things that I was not good at.
Joey，你……
Joey, you...
你知道，你是在帮朋友一个忙，你只是想支持他。
You know, you're doing your, you know, your friend a favor, and you just wanna support him.
但我猜，至少一开始，你不会想，这就是我想做的事。
But I have to imagine that at least initially, you're not thinking, this is what I wanna do.
我想辞掉工作去干这个。
I wanna leave my job and go do this.
或者……
Or...
当时你要是问我，我肯定会笑话你。
Mean, if you'd asked me at the time, I would have laughed at you.
你会……
You would...
我的意思是，你只会想，好吧。
I mean, you would just thought, alright.
我就支持一下这个
I'm just gonna support this
这家伙真能说。
this guy shoot.
碰巧吧。
Chance.
对，是的。
Mean, yeah.
我，我……
I I...
不只是支持。
Not just supporting.
我是说，我当时确实觉得这真的很酷。
I mean, I did think it was it was really cool.
而且，说实话，我偶尔会回头看那段视频，现在我们给新员工展示Allbirds的时候也会放，你知道，Tim当时凭直觉看到并谈论的很多东西，跟我们今天讲的完全一样。
And, I mean, looking back at that video as I as I once in a while do when we're showing new employees now of Allbirds, you know, a lot of the things that Tim intuitively saw and talked about in that video are exactly the same things that we talk about today.
我觉得，Tim就是那种不可思议的直觉型营销天才，他能跟人产生共鸣，知道市场上缺什么，这一点从第一天起就很明显了。
And I think, you know, Tim is Tim is just one of those unbelievable intuitive marketers that just connects with with people and understands what is missing in the market, and and that was clear from, I think, day one.
所以，蒂姆，我了解到在Kickstarter众筹结束、你完成那些订单之后，你有点筋疲力尽，然后你做了个噩梦……
So, Tim, I read that after the Kickstarter ended and you fulfilled those orders and you're kind of exhausted and you have this nightmare...
噩梦般的一年，你当时在想，我到底该怎么处理这个东西？
Nightmarish year, and you're trying to think, what am I gonna do with this thing?
然后有个投资人联系了你，他说，嘿。
You were contacted by an investor who said, hey.
这玩意儿有点意思。
There's something here.
你愿意让我入股吗？
Would you let me buy into this thing?
结果我就坐上了去纽约的飞机，跟一个鞋业界的人聊了聊，他看到了我们的势头和产品。
I found myself on a plane to New York speaking with someone from within the the footwear world who had seen the traction and the the the product.
而且挺喜欢的？
And liked it?
挺喜欢的。
Liked it.
然后我去了纽约，和他们待了很长时间，我们把每个细节都过了一遍，然后他们给了我一份协议。
And I went to New York and spent a lot of time with them, we went through every aspect of it, and they put a they put a deal in front of me.
那一定让你挺有成就感的。
And that must have been pretty gratifying.
我是说，我猜你当时对自己的财务状况有点担心，所以他们给你一个具体的数字，你肯定觉得挺不错的。
I mean, I have to assume you were getting a little bit nervous about your financial situation, so they're putting a dollar figure in front of you must have been quite nice.
我开始想，接下来该怎么办？
I was starting to think, what do I do next?
而且我经历了这么艰难的一年，我就想，为什么我……
And I've been through this really difficult year, and I was like, why why am I...
我在做什么？
What am I doing?
我们在做羊毛鞋。
We're making wool shoes.
这到底有什么意义……
Why what does this even...
我为什么要做这件事？
Why am I doing this?
所以当时脑子里有很多这样的问题在转，然后……
And so there's a lot lot of those questions kinda going through through my mind, and...
但就在这时，我们收到了这个投资邀请。
But we get this investment offer.
而且我足够了解这个交易，能看懂它。
And I I knew enough to understand the deal.
但她……
But she...
但事情很复杂。
But it it was complicated.
确实很复杂。
It was complicated.
你有多长时间给他答复？
And how much time did you have before you had to give him an answer?
你知道，就几个星期？
You know, just Couple weeks?
这事儿就摆在台面上了。
This thing's on the table.
然后琳恩就说，你得跟乔伊谈谈这事儿。
And and Lynn's, she she goes, you need to speak with Joey about this.
他就是干这行的。
He comes from this world.
他是这个项目的客户，而且，你知道，把这事儿摆在他面前，他应该会是个挺有意思的人。
He's he's a customer of the project and he, you know, he'd be an interesting person to sort of put this in front of.
所以我就去做了。
And so and so I did.
而且每个人都给了我大概十分钟的时间来谈这事儿。
And everyone had given me their kind of ten minutes on this.
大家都说，接了吧。
People saying, take it.
大家都说，这有好有坏，而且你也没有别的选择。
Everyone was like, oh, it's good and it's bad, and you don't really have anything else.
那你是想把这个项目推销出去，还是你真正想要的是什么？
So do you wanna shop this round or what do you really want?
你能大概说说他们给你什么条件吗？
And Can you can you give me a rough sense of what they're offering you?
就是一些前期资金，会根据业务表现转成股权，而且还得搬到纽约去，他们打算拿走很大一部分，非常大的一部分。
It was it was some upfront capital that would convert to equity depending on how the business performed and involve kinda moving to New York, and they would, you know, they were gonna take a a big chunk of it, a large, large chunk of it.
大部分。
Majority.
大部分股份。
A majority of it.
然后
And
那你最后就剩下大概20%或15%了。
So you'd be left with, like, 20, 15%.
差不多吧。
Something like that.
然后乔……
And so Joe...
乔伊帮我看了看这个，然后他马上打电话过来，而且他不只是随便看了看。
Joey took a look at this thing for me, and and he jumps on the phone, and he hasn't just looked at this thing.
他……
He...
你知道，我有很多非常好的朋友，很亲近的朋友也看过这个……
You know, I had really, really good friends, close friends that had looked at it...
就是大概看了看。
That kinda looked at it.
他仔细研究了……
He'd gone through...
他读过了。
He'd read it.
哇。
Wow.
乔伊，你看到的时候是怎么想的？
What did you think when you saw it, Joey?
我觉得……
I thought...
你知道，我并没有觉得发来这个协议的人有什么恶意，但就我读到的内容来看，这协议确实有点趁火打劫的意思。
You know, I I didn't think that there was any ill intent from the from the guys who sent the deal, but it was it was vulturous in the way I I read it.
而且我觉得这是在利用一个好点子，想把他们的才能硬塞进这个生意里。
And I I thought that it was taking advantage of a great idea and trying to sink their talents into into this business.
而且它……
And it...
蒂姆最后能剩下的东西，真的不怎么样。
What Tim would have been left with was not great.
所以我想我当时就跟他说了，我说，听着，我不会接受这个协议，我也不会用这种方式来经营这个生意。
So I think I told him at that time, I was like, look, I wouldn't take the deal, and I wouldn't run the business this way.
但他还有什么别的选择呢？
But what was his alternative?
我当时就说了，而且你看，那时候……
I said at that time, and look, there was...
这也是我人生中的一个时刻，我在Solazyme已经待了六年。
This is a moment in in my life too that I'd been at Solazyme for six years.
而且我的经历一直都很一致。
And I had a a very consistent experience.
现在回想起来，我都有点想笑。
And, I I mean, I kinda look back and laugh a little bit now.
就像，藻油听起来有点像2000年代的万金油推销。
Like, algae oil kinda sounds like the the, like, 2 thousands version of snake oil salesman.
但我当时去的是大型跨国公司和化工企业，还有大品牌。
But I I was going to big multinationals and chemical companies, big brands.
而且，有那么几个关键时刻，我会有个想法。
And there was, like, a couple of these just seminal moments where I would I would have an idea.
我会去找那些如果你有一种很棒的新材料，而且碰巧非常环保，你会想找的人去谈。我推销了它，开了好几次会，一开始每个人都像，我超级……
I would go talk to the right people you'd wanna talk to if you had an amazing new material that happened to be really sustainable for the I I pitched it in, had multiple meetings, and everyone at first is like, I'm super...
这太棒了。
This is amazing.
这是个令人兴奋的想法。
It's an exciting idea.
我们喜欢这个可持续发展的使命。
We love the sustainability mission.
然后你会说，好吧。
And then you'd be like, okay.
那我们就这么干吧。
Well, let's do this.
对。
Yep.
然后话题就转到那种特别无聊的采购讨论上，他们就说，就按我们现在的方式做，但要更便宜。
And then it it turns to, like, this really inane sourcing conversation where they're like, just do what we do now and do it cheaper.
就是说，他们其实不太在乎可持续性，虽然他们不会这么说，但传达出来的意思就是这样。
Like, we don't really we don't really care about sustainability part is is not the words they use, but that's the sentiment that's conveyed.
所以通过这次特别令人沮丧的经历，我意识到那些大品牌，他们嘴上说在乎可持续性，但实际上只是敷衍了事。
And so I just realized through this super frustrating experience that the brands, big brands, they said they cared about sustainability, but in reality, they were just paying lip service to the idea.
所以我坐在这儿，Tim带着这个想法过来，不只是一个概念，而是一个相当成熟的想法，嗯。
So I'm sitting here, and Tim comes with this, not just a concept, but like a pretty fleshed out idea with Mhmm.
一个众筹成功的项目。
A Kickstarter success.
从可持续性的角度来看，这真的让我很有共鸣，但这也意味着一种完全不同于行业以往做法的卖鞋方式。
And it really resonated with me from a sustainability perspective, but it was also about an opportunity to sell shoes in a totally different way than the industry had had ever done before.
好的。
Okay.
那么在这……
So in the...
你看到了这份条款清单。
You you see this term sheet.
乔伊，你脑子里开始转起来了，想着，等等。
The gears start turning in your head, Joey, where you're thinking, wait a minute.
这其实……
This actually...
这事儿有点搞头。
There's some legs to this thing.
而且，也许我可以跟蒂姆聊聊，用这个鞋子的创意作为可持续发展业务的载体。
And, actually, maybe I can talk to Tim about sort of using this shoe idea as a vehicle for a sustainability business.
我读过一本书叫《从摇篮到摇篮》。
And I I'd read, this book Cradle to Cradle.
我记得开篇那章讲到，地球上污染和环境的祸害之一就是制鞋业。
I remember the intro chapter, talked about one of the scourges of the earth on pollution and the environment being the shoe industry.
哇。
Wow.
鞋子的数量……
The number of shoes...
而且，我的意思是，每年生产两百亿双鞋。
And and, I mean, there's 20,000,000,000 pairs of shoes that are made every year.
光是在美国，普通美国人，不管是小孩、女人还是男人，每人每年买八双鞋。哇。
And in The US alone, the average American kid, woman, man, they they buy eight pairs per year Wow.
每人。
Per person.
所以光美国就二十五亿双。
So it's 2,500,000,000, just The US.
然后……
And so...
所有这些鞋都堆在垃圾填埋场里。
And all these things are sitting in landfills.
而且，生产这些鞋所用的化学品和材料……
And and so what you put into the chemicals and the and the materials that used to produce it are...
它们极其重要，但没人考虑过这个问题。
They're incredibly important, and no one's thinking about it.
所以，是的，我开始动脑筋了，也开始想得更多。
And so, yeah, the gears started turning a little bit, and and I started thinking more.
而且，你知道，你看。
And and, you know, look.
时机就是一切。
Timing is everything.
然后我问了蒂姆……
And I asked Tim...
我的家人，我当时有两个很小的孩子。
My my family, I I had I had two really young kids at the time.
而且，丽兹和孩子们那个周末不在家。
And, Liz and and my kids were gone for the weekend.
我问蒂姆要不要从伦敦飞过来，就聊聊这个想法，看看他愿不愿意再试一次，我们能不能一起合作。
And I asked Tim if he wanted to fly out from London and and just talk about the concept and see if if he'd give it another go and if we guys could work together.
我们可以一起合作。
We could work together.
他说这话的时候，你是怎么想的？
What did you think about that when he said that?
我直接跳上飞机，飞到了旧金山，乔伊和我一起度过了那个周末，他还到机场接了我。
I jumped on the plane, and I flew out to San Francisco, and Joey and I spent the weekend together and he picked me up at the airport.
这是在一五年初。
This is in early
我们那个周末待在一起，喝了一点酒，聊了聊各自的家庭，互相了解，还在马林的山里散步，真的就是想象一下一起工作会是什么样子，试着搞清楚那到底是不是个好主意。
twenty fifteen and we spent the weekend together getting getting a little bit drunk and and talking about our families and getting to know each other and walking in the hills of Marin and and really just sort of imagining what it might be like to work together and trying to understand if that would be a good idea or not.
所以你们那个周末就决定要试试看，要干一场了吗？
So did you resolve that weekend to try this out, to make a go of it?
大体上是的。
By and large, yeah.
我回到伦敦后，跟林赛说，我觉得我想做这件事，而且我已经找到了合适的搭档。
I I landed back in London, I and I said to Lindsay, I go, I think I wanna do this, and I've I've found the person to do
就是和他一起。
it with.
你为什么觉得他是合适的合作伙伴？
Why did you think he was the person to do it with?
我觉得我找到了一个表面上和我非常不同的人，但也许在内心深处，我们在态度和处理事情的方式上有很多相似之处。
I think I found a guy that on the surface was very very different from me but maybe underneath shared a lot of similarities in terms of attitude and approach.
我找到了一个在竞争心方面和我很像的人，我们都很有竞争意识，这很吸引我。
I'd found maybe a kindred spirit in terms of the competitiveness, which we both shared that I that was attractive.
而且我觉得我找到了一个能处理那些我不擅长的事情的人，我们可能会成为很好的搭档。
And I think I'd found someone that could do all the parts of the business that I shouldn't be doing and that we potentially could be a great a great partnership.
我能问你们一个问题吗？
Can I ask you guys?
这很重要，因为很多听这个节目的人都是联合创始人或者两个人一起创业的。
And this is important because a lot of people who listen to this show are their cofounders or two people involved.
这个节目很大一部分内容是关于经验教训的。
And a big part of the show is lessons learned.
它就像一张路线图。
It's a road map.
怎么……
How...
你能带我了解一下……
Can you walk me through the...
我不知道这是不是很难。
I don't know if it was difficult.
我不知道这是不是让人不舒服或者不愉快。
I don't know if it was uncomfortable or unpleasant.
你们俩在决定怎么构建这家公司的时候，必须进行的那场对话——因为你们一直在做这个项目，你有这个想法，但你也有另一个想法，就是把蒂姆的想法真正变成一个完全可持续、零碳、碳中和的产品，这个我们后面会谈到。
The conversation that two of you had to have when you decided how you were gonna structure this company because you've been working on this and you have this idea, but you also have this idea which is to actually take Tim's idea, but to turn it into a totally sustainable carbon free, carbon neutral product which we'll get to.
所以你们……
So you...
你们俩都带着大想法进来。
You're both coming in with big ideas.
你们怎么分配公司的股份？
How do you divide the company up?
我觉得我们很快就搞定了这件事，而且很简单，就是通过邮件。
I think we did that we did that very quickly and and very simply over email.
哦，我觉得我们俩都明白的关键点是，一个人单干……
Oh, I think I think the important part that we both understood was that doing this alone...
我是说，Tim已经体验过一段时间了，一个人做真的很孤独。
I mean, Tim had experienced it for a while, that doing it alone is really lonely.
而且我一直觉得，如果我要创业，我想找个人一起，因为我知道自己的短板挺多的。
And I'd always been of the opinion that if I was gonna do a business, I wanted to do it with someone because I I knew my shortcomings were substantial.
我更愿意拥有一大块东西的一小部分，而不是一小块东西的很多。
And that I would much rather have a piece of something big than a lot of something small.
所以这就会……
And so it it would...
你知道，我觉得他尊重我能带来的价值，尤其是对公司未来的发展。
You know, and I think he respected what I was gonna bring to the table, particularly in the future of the business.
所以最后这变成了一次相当快的对话，而且我觉得我们俩都没有后悔过。
So it wasn't it ended up being a reasonably reasonably quick conversation, and I think neither of us have have really looked back.
至少我肯定没有后悔过。
At least, I certainly haven't looked back and ever regretted that.
所以你们是在分一个一文不值的东西的百分之百，对吧。
So you're dividing up a 100% of something worth nothing Mhmm.
那时候这总是个挑战，因为你永远不知道未来会发生什么。
At that point, which is always a challenge because you never know what's what's gonna happen in the future.
然后你们俩都决定要当CEO吗？
And then you both decide you are going to both be the CEO?
你知道，我们，你看。
You know, we we, look.
我当时和金融界的人谈了很多。
I was having a lot of the conversations with the financial community.
然后你走进某个人的办公室，他们就说，好的。
And, you know, you go into, like, someone's office and they're like, okay.
那太棒了。
That's awesome.
但我能跟CEO谈谈吗？
But can I talk to the CEO?
而蒂姆，蒂姆呢，你知道，首先
And Tim is Tim is, you know, first
在伦敦。
in London.
他在伦敦。
He's in London.
他也在进行其他类型的对话，这些对话可能会……
He's also he's also doing other kinds of conversations that would be...
而且后来我们也知道，跟媒体打交道会非常重要。
And and subsequently, we knew that, like, press, like, talking to the media was gonna be really important.
如果蒂姆要去接受媒体采访，他……
And if Tim was gonna go have a media conversation, he...
就像，他们也会想跟CEO谈。
Like, they would also wanna talk to the CEO.
所以我们当时就说，对。
So we're like, yeah.
干脆就用联合CEO吧。
Let's just use co CEO.
而且我们还……
And we also...
我觉得我们俩都清楚，对方带来了自己特别独特的东西，是彼此没有的。
I think we both knew that what each other brought something really special to the table that the other one didn't didn't bring.
然后现在……
And now...
所以这个……
And so the the...
这不仅仅是个头衔上的说法。
It wasn't just a semantic title.
实际上，正是我们各自的核心贡献，才需要这样分担责任。
It was really actually the fundamental, contribution warranted that kind of split responsibility.
所以2015年那个夏天，乔伊，你到处奔波，努力筹钱。
So that summer of twenty fifteen, you're pounding the pavement, Joey, trying to raise money.
你觉得需要筹多少钱才能让这个项目起步？
How much money did you think you needed to raise to get this thing off the ground?
我们，你知道，做了个小商业计划，结果非常不准确。
We, you know, we did our little business plan, which is remarkably inaccurate.
但我们决定需要一百五十万美元。
But we but we had decided that we needed a million and $0.5.
好的。
Okay.
我们觉得这笔钱能让我们在初期做大量的市场营销和品牌建设，然后买一大批库存。
And we felt like that could get us through a huge amount of marketing, branding work in the beginning, and then, buy a whole bunch of inventory.
我们想买很多库存，因为我们的想法是，如果要做这件事，要么快速失败，要么大获成功。
And we wanted to buy a lot of inventory because we we had this mentality of if we were gonna do this, we were gonna fail super fast or succeed really big.
所以从一开始的想法就是直接面向消费者。
And so the idea from the beginning was direct to consumer.
你打算搞一场大型营销活动来吸引人们访问网站，然后把鞋子放在仓库里，到时候直接发货就行。
You were gonna have a big marketing campaign to attract people to the website, and, you were going to have the shoes in a warehouse, and then you could just ship them out.
对。
Yep.
基本上就是这样，我们打算在美国和新西兰同时上线，只通过网站销售。
Basically, and we were gonna launch simultaneously in The US and New Zealand on just website.
你们心里有具体的日期吗？
And did you have a date in mind?
有的。
We did.
2016年3月1日。
03/01/2016.
哇。
Wow.
那你们当时是在家里办公吗？
And you were working out of your house?
我岳母的公寓。
My mother in law's apartment.
好的。
Okay.
在马林那边。
In in Marin.
蒂姆，你正在伦敦收尾，准备搬到加州。
Tim, you're wrapping up in London preparing to move to California.
准备在2015年6月6日结婚。
Preparing to get married on 06/06/2015.
然后搬到加州。
And then to move to California.
然后来加州。
And then come to California.
而且我正在办理绿卡，还有移民那些手续。
And I'm going through a green card of of the immigration thing and stuff.
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