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嘿。
Hey.
我是盖伊。
It's Guy here.
在节目开始之前，我想分享一个最近从史蒂芬·科尔伯特那里听到的故事。
And before we start the show, I wanna share something I heard recently from Stephen Colbert.
是关于从失败中学习的。
It's about learning from failure.
他给我讲了一个不可思议的故事，那是他在芝加哥做即兴喜剧的时候，有一天晚上他在台上突然笑场了，他一开始觉得那是世界上最糟糕的事情，但这件事却改变了他的人生，也永远改变了他对喜剧的看法。
He told me an incredible story from way back when he was doing improv in Chicago and how he broke on stage one night, which he initially thought was the worst thing ever, but it actually changed his life and his approach to comedy forever.
想听我和史蒂芬·科尔伯特以及其他杰出创意人士的对话，可以收听我的另一个播客《创作者》。
To hear my conversation with Stephen Colbert and other incredible creative people, listen to my other podcast, Creators.
只要在你收听播客的地方搜索“盖伊·拉兹的伟大创作者”就行了。
Just search for The Great Creators with Guy Raz wherever you listen to podcasts.
那么现在，我们开始今天的节目吧。
And now, on to today's show.
最奇怪的是，如果你今天要创立一个品牌，从一件T恤开始，你的下一个产品可能会是牛仔布。
So the strangest thing you would never expect, if you were to build a brand today and you start with a T shirt, your next product might be denim.
我们的下一个产品竟然是领带和领结。
Our next product was literally ties and bow ties.
领带和领结？
Ties and bow ties?
对，领带和领结。
Ties and bow ties.
这看起来就像……
It just seems like a...
就像那种……
Like a kind of a...
就像往飞镖盘上扔飞镖一样。
Just throwing a dart at a dartboard.
那就做领结吧。
Let's do bow ties.
确实挺奇怪的。
It is weird.
我们当时没什么门路，要等六到十二个月才能推出卫衣。
We didn't have a lot of connections, it was we would have to wait six to twelve months to be able to launch a sweatshirt.
我们的替代方案是，有个哥们儿能在两个月内做出领带和领结。
And our alternative was we had a guy that could make ties and bow ties in two months.
那这些卖得怎么样？
And how did those do?
我们后来再也没做过领带和领结。
We never made ties and bow ties again.
就这么说吧。
Let's just put it that way.
欢迎收听《我是如何打造这个的》，这是一档关于创新者、企业家、理想主义者以及他们开创的事业背后故事的节目。
Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built.
我是盖伊·拉兹，今天节目中，我们将讲述迈克尔·普雷斯曼如何打算创办一个在线零售平台，却意外进入服装行业，并打造了价值数百万美元的品牌Everlane。
I'm Guy Raz, and on the show today, how Michael Preysman set out to start an online retail platform, fell into the apparel industry, and built the multimillion dollar brand Everlane.
在2023年初，全球咨询公司毕马威做了一些关于消费者行为的研究，他们发现大约有三分之一的人在决定买什么的时候会考虑公司的社会使命。
In early twenty twenty three, KPMG, the global consulting firm, did some research around consumer behavior, and they found that about a third of people think about a company's social mission when they decide what to buy.
比如说，大约三分之一的消费者可能会选择本杰瑞而不是超市自有品牌，因为大家觉得本杰瑞关心环境这类事情。
So for example, about a third of consumers might choose Ben and Jerry's over, say, the supermarket brand because Ben and Jerry's is perceived to care about things like the environment.
在过去二十年里，这类研究导致了很多以消费者为中心的品牌和公司涌现，它们强调自己对社会责任感的承诺。
Over the past twenty years, this kind of research has led to an explosion of consumer focused brands and companies that emphasize their commitment to social responsibility.
这甚至有个专门的说法，叫社会企业。
There's even a name for it, social enterprise.
而且大多数情况下，这是件好事。
And for the most part, that's a good thing.
我们希望公司和品牌能减少伤害。
We want our companies and brands to do less harm.
但问题是，被捧为所谓的社会企业，也会让你在无法总是达到自己理想的时候变得脆弱。
But the problem is that being celebrated as a so called social enterprise can also make you vulnerable when you can't always live up to your ideals.
这也是Everlane在过去几年遇到波折的部分原因。
And that is part of why Everlane hit a bumpy patch in the past few years.
如果你不知道这个品牌，他们卖的是衣服，主要是基本款，比如T恤、牛仔裤、毛衣，有点像九十年代的Gap。
If you don't know the brand, they sell clothing, mainly basics like t shirts, jeans, sweaters, sort of like the Gap from the nineties.
Everlane是最早直接面向消费者的品牌之一，真正大力推行“彻底透明”这个概念。
Everlane was one of the first direct to consumer brands that really leaned in on the concept of radical transparency.
这家公司把制作衣服的实际成本都列了出来。
The company laid out the actual costs of making clothing.
比如说，一件T恤的制作成本大概在4到6美元之间。
So for example, a t shirt can cost between 4 and $6 to make.
我们付的钱其实都是品牌溢价，但你我都清楚这一点。
What we're all paying for is the brand name, but you know that and so do I.
Everlane想更进一步，不仅让你看到制作衣服的真实成本，还要展示所有细节，比如工厂、运输过程、原材料从哪里采购。
Everlane wanted to double down and not just show you the true cost of making clothing, but everything about it, the factory, the shipping process, where raw materials were sourced.
他们的想法是教育消费者，让他们明白基本上可以在Everlane买到同样的产品，但价格只是原来的一小部分，而且还能做到合乎道德。
And the idea was to educate consumers to show them that they could basically buy the same product from Everlane, but for a fraction of the price, and they could do it ethically.
2011年Michael Preysman联合创立这个品牌时，他就在想能不能在网上卖一件简单的T恤，然后把它发展成一个品牌。
When Michael Preysman cofounded the brand in 2011, he wondered whether he could sell a simple t shirt on the Internet and turn that into a brand.
他的理念是告诉人们一件衬衫的真实成本，然后以比别人更低的价格出售，结果大受欢迎。
His concept, tell people the true cost of a shirt and then sell it for less than anyone else was a big hit.
多年来，公司以惊人的速度增长。
And for many years, the company grew at an eye popping rate.
但正如你将看到的，疫情给Everlane带来了不同的命运，其业务受到了相当大的打击。
But as you will find out, the pandemic had other plans for Everlane, and its business took a pretty significant hit.
如今，公司重新走上了盈利之路，很大程度上是因为它也缩小了一些野心。
Today, the company is back on a path towards profitability in large part because it has also narrowed some of its ambitions.
迈克尔·普雷斯曼并不是一开始就想在时尚界发展。
Michael Preysman didn't set out to have a career in fashion.
他是俄罗斯移民的孩子，在八十年代和九十年代的硅谷长大。
He's the child of Russian immigrants and grew up in the eighties and nineties in the Silicon Valley.
小时候，毫不奇怪，他对电脑很感兴趣。
As a kid, perhaps not surprisingly, he was into computers.
迈克尔从卡内基梅隆大学毕业后，在纽约的一家私募股权公司工作。
And after Michael graduated from college at Carnegie Mellon, he landed at a private equity firm in New York.
而且我内心充满了焦虑。
And I'm just feeling a lot of angst.
那种焦虑就是感觉哪里不对劲。
And the kind of angst that just feels like something's not right.
我不知道是什么原因，但我记得，我觉得这不可能是我的人生。
And I didn't know what it was, but I remember, I don't think this can be my life.
有两三个月的时间，我一直在想，我为什么会有这种感觉？
And I had this period of two to three months where I was trying to figure out why am I feeling this way?
我能做些什么呢？
What can I do about it?
然后我做了一个练习，我记得我说，好吧，我要写下所有我敬佩的人。
And I had, I did this one exercise and I remember I said, okay, I'm going to write down everybody I admire.
我写下了我的父亲。
And I wrote down my father.
他其实创办过几家公司。
He had actually started a couple of businesses.
我写下了那些大名鼎鼎的人物。
I wrote down big names.
当时有迈克尔·艾斯纳，还有史蒂夫·乔布斯、史蒂夫·沃兹尼亚克，都是些响当当的名字。
Michael Eisner at the time or, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, and they were kind of big names.
但当我写下每一个名字时，我意识到没有一个人是做金融的，而且他们全都是从零开始创业或打造过什么东西的。
But when I wrote down every single name, I realized not a single one worked in finance, and all of them had operated or built something from scratch.
然后我说，哦。
And I said, oh.
那一刻对我来说就是转折点。
And that was the moment for me.
就这么简单，我意识到我必须去开创点什么。
It was as simple as that that I realized I've got to go and start something.
所以你想，好吧。
So you thought, alright.
我得想出个办法来。
I've gotta figure something out.
而且，你大概有几年时间在看那些创业公司，看别人怎么推销他们的想法，有些想法你可能觉得，这看起来没那么复杂，或者也可能不这么觉得。
And presumably, you had a few years where you were watching, you know, startups and people pitch ideas and and and maybe some of those ideas you thought, well, this doesn't seem so complicated Or or or maybe not.
哦，那绝对看起来很复杂。
Oh, it definitely seemed complicated.
而且我跟你说，我有机会在金融领域工作过，那是个相当……
And I will tell you, I having had the chance to work in the finance side, it's a pretty...
那是一份辛苦的工作，但它是金融导向、低风险的工作。
It's a hard job, but it's a financially oriented low risk job.
所以你看看自己的生活，你会说，嘿，我……
So you look at your life and you say, Hey, I...
如果我留在这里，坚持下去，我就成功了。
If I stick here and stay here, I'm made.
我过得很好。
I'm fine.
从各方面来看都是。
By all measure.
所以那时候在纽约，我开始和创业者们混在一起。
And so to be in New York at that time, I started hanging out with entrepreneurs.
不过我很幸运，因为我在湾区长大，所以见识过可以说是最顶尖的东西。
But I had the fortune of having grown up in the Bay Area, so I've been exposed to what you could call the best of the best.
我开始和创业者们交往，但在纽约就是感觉不到那种活力。
And I started hanging out with entrepreneurs, and I just didn't feel the energy in New York.
所以到了2010年夏天，我真的收拾好行李，搬回了加州，搬到了旧金山，打算自己创业，或者去我名单上那几家精选的公司工作。
So it was the summer of two thousand ten, and I actually packed up my bags and moved back to California and moved to San Francisco with the intention to start something or work for a very select few companies that I had on my list.
好的。
Alright.
所以你在2010年搬回了湾区。
So you moved back to the Bay Area in 2010.
那你当时有什么想法吗？
And did you have any ideas at all?
我有一点想法。
I had a little bit of an idea.
你知道吗，当时真正让我受到启发的是那家叫Guilt Group的公司，它现在还在以某种形式存在，它彻底改变了人们在网上购买奢侈品的方式。
You know, what I was really inspired by at the time was this company that still exists in some shape or form called Guilt Group, which had really changed how people bought luxury online.
以前几乎没人会在网上买奢侈品，但突然之间，Guilt Group在经济衰退期间出现了，并且迅速火爆起来，因为人们能以五折的价格买到普拉达、古驰这些大牌。
No one had really bought luxury items online, and all of a sudden, Guilt Group came around during the recession and exploded because people could get Prada, Gucci, all these companies that say 50% off.
虽然它做的是折扣生意，这我并不太喜欢，但它让我大开眼界，原来人们愿意在网上购买这些品牌。
And while it was a discount business, which isn't what I love, it was a eye opening experience that people were willing to buy these brands online.
而且我当时有……
And I had...
对我来说，最关键的一点是，我并不懂技术。
The idea for me was really critical was I wasn't technical.
尽管我学过计算机工程，但我不会写代码，这挺奇怪的。
Even though I studied computer engineering, I didn't code, which is strange.
我也不知道为什么。
I don't know.
就是一直没真正喜欢上编程。
It just never really sang to me.
所以我特别想找个联合创始人，后来碰巧认识了一个特别棒的人，杰西·法默。
And so I was really set on finding a co founder and I, you know, happened to link up with a really great guy, Jesse Farmer.
他是个……
And he was a com...
他，他是个程序员。
He he was a coder.
他是搞技术的。
He was technical guy.
他不只是……
He's more than just...
他是技术产品负责人，但技术很强，能写代码，而且从头到尾都能做开发。
He's a technical product leader, but very technical and able to write code and, you know, did development and end to end.
而且你知道，不管你要做什么，你，你……
And you knew that whatever it is that you were gonna start, you you...
我的意思是，你当时有那种……
I mean, you had this sort of the...
你可以负责财务或者业务方面，但你需要一个能搞定技术的人，因为很明显，这会是基于数字的业务。
You could handle the finance or maybe the the business side, but you needed somebody who could handle the technical side because, obviously, this is gonna be a digital based business.
对。
Yep.
肯定是基于数字的。
It was gonna be digital based.
而且早期不一定就是零售。
And in the early days, it wasn't retail necessarily.
说实话，杰西和我当时还在摸索阶段。
Jesse and I were in explore mode, to be honest.
我们最后去了一个叫Dogpatch Labs的地方，那里挺有历史的，我们在那儿工作了几个月，一直在反复琢磨各种想法。
We ended up at a place called Dogpatch Labs, has a really storied history to it, but we we ended up working there for a number of months just iterating through ideas.
那你们是怎么做的？
And and what do you do?
你们开始讨论……
You start talking about...
比如，你还记得你们讨论过哪些想法吗？
Like, what do you remember about ideas you talked about?
我可以告诉你。
I can tell you.
想法可多了。
There were a whole ton.
所以我们当时的问题是，怎么重新思考网上购物？
So the question for us was, how can we rethink online shopping?
对。
Okay.
那是什么意思呢？
What what does that mean?
又能是什么样子呢？
And what can it look like?
然后我们每个人都写下了...
And we each put down...
开了个银行账户，每个人都承诺并说，就投一万美元。
Opened up a bank account and each committed and said, just put down $10,000.
这笔钱是用来决定这个生意要做什么的，但你知道它会是线上零售。
And the money being spent was to decide what this business was going to be, but you knew it was going to be an online retail.
对。
Yep.
'2...
'2...
到这是2010年。
By the this is 2010.
对。
Yep.
2010年底，可能是2011年初。
End of two thousand ten, might be early two thousand eleven.
好的。
Okay.
我们当时在尝试各种不同的东西。
And we were trying different things.
我给你举个例子吧。
So I'll give you an example.
杰西的一个核心理念就是建立在受众的基础上。
One of Jesse's big beliefs was building on top of audiences.
早期的时候，我们说，好，咱们看看怎么重新定义购物。
And in the early days, we said, okay, let's let's see how we can rethink shopping.
我们当时看了各种各样的平台。
And we were looking at all kinds of different platforms.
比如Etsy。
Etsy is an example.
我们在Etsy上建了一个工具，基本上把你的Etsy购物变成了信息流，你可以关注不同的店铺，然后就能收到他们最新商品的通知。
And we built a tool on top of Etsy that basically turned your Etsy shopping into feeds and you could follow different shops and then you would get updates on their newest items.
好的。
Okay.
而且它确实有效，效果很棒，很多人都很喜欢。
And it worked, and it was very cool, and a lot of people loved it.
但很快我们就意识到，在Etsy上建业务是行不通的。
And then we realized very quickly that building a business on top of Etsy was a losing proposition.
于是我们从Etsy转向了当时很火的平台Tumblr。
And so then we went from Etsy to Tumblr, which was a big platform at the time.
然后我们说，为什么不试试……
And we said, why don't we see...
能不能在Tumblr上做购物？
Can we build shopping on top of Tumblr?
对。
Yep.
所以我们开始开发基于Tumblr的工具。
So we start building tools on top of Tumblr.
我们当时的一个想法是，做策展？
So one of the thoughts for us was, we build curation?
我们能不能围绕产品制造足够的热度，让人们找到他们喜欢的产品并购买，然后我们从中赚取某种联盟佣金。
And can we create so much buzz around products that we can drive people to find the products they love, buy them, and then we would get an affiliate fee of some sort.
这个想法就是做一个iPhone手机壳商店。
And the concept was an iPhone case store.
我们会根据这些手机壳在Tumblr上获得的点赞数来设计它们。
We would design iPhone cases based on the number of likes they got on Tumblr.
我们真的会投入生产并销售这些手机壳。
We would actually put them into production and sell them.
你们是从哪里弄到这些iPhone手机壳的？
Where did you get the iPhone cases from?
我们上网找了一个地方，你可以上传图案，然后他们按需制作iPhone手机壳。
We went online, and there was a place where you could upload graphics, and then they would make iPhone cases on demand.
这些手机壳是谁设计的？
Who was designing the cases?
这些手机壳是由我们找到的五六个自由设计师设计的。
The cases were designed by a group of five or six different graphic freelancers we found.
我们会找人设计各种很酷的图案。
We would have people design very cool graphics of different sorts.
有些跟文化相关，有些很漂亮，各种风格都有。
Some culturally related, some beautiful, whatever.
然后我们发到Tumblr上，说这个如果达到多少个赞，我们就做出来卖。
And we would post them on Tumblr and say, this gets x number of likes, we'll make it and sell it.
然后根据这个，会链接到我们的商店，人们可以在那里购买。
And then based on that, it would link to a store that we had where people could buy things.
确实，人们会喜欢某些东西，我们挂上去，然后就能卖出去。
And indeed, people would like certain things, would put them up and they would sell.
这算是制造热度和排队等待的雏形。
And it was sort of the beginning of creating this buzz and wait list.
但我们是从某个网站买这些iPhone壳，比如customiphonecases.com。
But we were buying all of these iPhone cases from some site, I don't know, call it customiphonecases.com.
我们花20美元买进，然后30美元卖出。
And we would pay $20 and sell them for 30.
所以利润空间不是很好。
So the margin wasn't very good.
我们只赚10美元。然后我们意识到，这些20美元的iPhone手机壳，我不知道怎么……
We were making $10 And then we realized, these $20 iPhone cases, I don't know how...
我们为什么会这么假设，但我们就是假设它们制作成本大概也就2到3美元。
Why we made this assumption, but we made the assumption that they probably cost $2 or $3 to make.
而我们只赚10美元，却承担了所有的需求。
And that we're only making $10 but generating all the demand.
而这家定制iPhone手机壳公司却从我们这里赚了大钱。
And this custom iPhone case company is making a ton of money off of us.
那一刻我们意识到，零售业的加价其实相当高。
And that was this moment that said, wait, the markups in retail are actually pretty massive.
那我们为什么不直接自己生产，直接卖给消费者呢？
And why don't we just become the manufacturer and sell direct to the consumer?
然后……
And in...
在我们做这个iPhone手机壳商店的时候，我想说，我们其实已经出去融了一小笔钱。
At the time that we were building this iPhone case store, do wanna say that we had gone out and raised a small amount of money.
那你们融了
And how how much
多少钱？
money did you raise?
一百万美元。
A million dollars.
我觉得也不算多吧。
I guess it's not No.
那个……
That
那笔钱是……
And and and it was...
你们2011年融的那笔钱，是因为做了iPhone手机壳商店，还是说你们的计划里还有其他业务？
You raised that money in 2011 based on building an iPhone case store, or or was the pitch about doing other things?
当时的计划是在Tumblr上打造一个新的零售平台。
The pitch was building a new retail platform on top of Tumblr.
好的。
Okay.
然后你们会卖……
And you would sell...
你们会从iPhone手机壳开始，但随着时间的推移，可以扩展到各种配件。
You'd start with iPhone cases, but you could go into all kinds of accessories over time.
没错。
You got it.
好的。
Okay.
是的。
Yep.
完全正确。
Exactly.
那，那，是谁，是谁给你投的钱？
And and and who who gave you the money?
是专业投资人、风投，还是朋友？
Was it was it professional investors, venture capitalists, was it friends It and
是。
was.
你知道，我们有……
You know, we had...
我们就是人脉广。
We just had a good network.
身边都是做其他有意思工作的人。
And we were surrounded by people doing other interesting work.
所以很快，就有人把我们介绍给了对的人。
And so quickly, people introduced us to the right people.
就是那个著名的SV Angel，罗恩·康威。
And it was the the, you know, famous SV Angel, Ron Conway.
凯鹏华盈也投了一点钱。
It was Kleiner Perkins put in a little bit of money.
还有一大堆不同的人，他们就说，嘿，这听起来挺酷的。
It was a whole host of different people that just said, hey, this sounds cool.
Tumblr，购物。
Tumblr, shopping.
这些人看起来挺聪明的。
These guys seem smart.
我们给他们一个机会吧。
We'll give them a shot.
当我回想为什么我搬到加州而不是纽约时，这就是原因。
And when I go back to thinking about why I moved to California versus New York, that was the reason.
在加州，人们一直相信，试试看吧。
The belief in California has always been, give it a shot.
看看会发生什么。
Let's see what happens.
我读到过你的一些事情……
One of the things that I I I read that you...
当你在寻找想法，琢磨什么可行什么不可行的时候，你联系了很多不同的创业者。
While you were kind of searching around for ideas and and what might work and what might not work is you reached out to a bunch of different entrepreneurs.
我知道其中一位是戴夫·吉尔博，他创办了沃比·帕克，因为你很可能喜欢那个品牌，而且他们当时很火。
And I know one of them was Dave Gilboa who started Warby Parker because you probably love that brand, and they were a hot brand.
跟我说说……
Tell me what...
你是直接联系他的，对吧？
You just reached out to him cold.
是的。
I did.
戴夫特别有帮助，因为他确实是在2010年创办的，我记得是……
Dave was particularly helpful because indeed he had launched in 2010, I believe, or...
哦，2010年2月。
Oh, February 2010.
所以他们大概成立了一年半左右。
So they were about a year and a half in.
然后我...
And I had...
你知道，我们刚推出iPhone手机壳，然后我们就想，等等，Warby是直接销售的。
You know, we had just launched our iPhone cases and we said, wait a second, Warby selling direct.
为什么我们不能直接销售，并围绕这个建立品牌呢？
Why can't we sell direct and build a brand around that?
Dave真的帮了大忙，帮我们理清了早期创业的思路。
And Dave was just immensely helpful and just helping us think through the early days of what we were building.
我从Dave那里学到了什么才是重要的。
And I was learning what mattered from Dave.
然后我记得在早期，我们还学习了如何制造，因为我们决定自己来做生产。
And then I remember in the early days also just learning how to manufacture because we decided we were gonna be the manufacturer.
我的意思是，显然，Warby Parker做的事情是，他们发现眼镜的加价率非常高，而且大多数人戴的眼镜，大多数品牌，都被一家公司控制着。
I mean I mean, obviously, what what Wardley Parker did was they realized that glasses were being marked up extraordinarily high and that most glasses most people wore were controlled by one company, most brands.
所以他们的模式就是，自己生产或者掌握生产资料，然后降低成本。
And and so that model of, like, producing or owning a sort of the the the means of production and then lowering costs, that was their model.
所以很明显，那并没有……
And so clearly, that that hadn't...
你知道，我想那在一定程度上启发了你。
You know, that I I imagine inspired you to some extent.
那对我，对我们，启发都非常大。
It inspired me and us in an an immense amount.
而当我们……
And what what it was when we...
我记得那些iPhone手机壳，我们发现加价太高了，然后我们说，好吧，我们不会围绕iPhone手机壳来创业。
I remember these iPhone cases, we realized the markups were so high and we said, okay, well, we're not gonna start a company around iPhone cases.
但如果我们创立一个品牌呢？
But what if we start a brand?
而且为了什么……
And for what...
不管是什么原因，我们意识到基础款T恤，你知道，我记得当时很喜欢一个叫James Purse的品牌，他们卖的T恤是45美元，现在可能得80美元了。
Whatever reason it was, we realized that the basic T shirt, you know, I remember loving a brand called James Purse that sold T shirts at the time $45 now they're probably 80.
然后我发现那些T恤的成本只要6到7美元。
And I found out those T shirts cost $7, $6 to make.
这看起来有点不道德。
And that seemed borderline unethical.
一件7美元的T恤被标价到45美元，而消费者完全不知道。
That a $7 t shirt was marked up to $45 and the consumer had no idea.
这是不道德，还是只是资本主义？
Is it unethical or is it just capitalism?
我的意思是
I mean
好吧。
Alright.
这就是我二十出头时的那种理想主义。
And that's the idealism I had in the in the early twenties.
现在你可以说，到了三十多岁，这就是资本主义。
Now you could say in the thirties, that's capitalism.
那挺好的。
Good for you.
然后你还可以说，我们那种资本主义版本很棒。
And then you could say our version of capitalism was great.
我们打算卖得更便宜，并且讲出我们的故事。
We're going to sell it for less and tell our story.
但在早期，感觉不止如此。
But in the early days, it felt more than that.
感觉有机会重塑整个行业。
And it felt like there was an opportunity to reshape the industry.
我们当时说，如果基础款T恤能加价七倍，那我们就围绕这个理念打造一个品牌，因为T恤是衣橱里最基础的单品。
And we said, if the basic T shirt can be marked up seven times, let's build a brand around that concept because the T shirt is the most basic part of a wardrobe.
这些就是纯色T恤，没有任何图案，没有口袋，就是一件素T恤。
And these were plain T shirts, just no no design, just no pockets, just a plain t shirt.
我们后来确实加了口袋，但早期就是纯色T恤。
We did eventually have a pocket for sure, but, yeah, in the early days, was plain t shirts.
就是那种经典的高品质Supima棉T恤。
Good old plain, high quality Supima cotton t shirts.
那你和Jesse在考虑做T恤的时候，是想着直接做一家完整的服装公司，还是想着先从T恤开始？
So when you when you and Jesse were thinking about t shirts, did you think about a full apparel company right away, or did you did you think, let's start with t shirts?
我们当时把它看作一个推出产品的平台，而不是一个时尚品牌。
We thought about it as a platform to launch product, not as much as a fashion brand.
那是后来才有的想法。
That that came later.
这是公司发展过程中一个关键时刻，因为我们当时已经筹集了一百万美元，可能已经花掉了其中的十万。
And this was a big point of one of those critical moments in the evolution of the company because we had raised our million dollars, maybe spent at this point, a 100,000 of it.
我们跟所有投资者承诺的是，要在Tumblr上建立一个零售商。
And we had signed up all these investors on the idea that we're going to build a retailer on top of Tumblr.
但我们的想法是，放弃那个零售平台。
And the belief was, let's ditch the retail platform.
咱们把这些技术都扔掉，直接去做品牌吧。
Let's ditch all this technology and let's go launch a brand.
当时我心里特别害怕，担心投资人们会说，这可不是我当初投资的项目。
And in my head, I had this immense fear that our investors were going to say, this is not what I signed up for.
我记得那一刻，我起草了一封很长的邮件，说明新的计划。
And so I remember this moment where I draft up this long email about what the new plan is.
我们要把所有这些都关掉，然后推出一个品牌，就在这个日期上线。
We're gonna shut all this stuff down and we're gonna launch a brand and it's launching on this date.
我反复斟酌这封邮件，最后终于发给了所有投资人，本以为会有很多人说，你们到底在搞什么？
And I sat on this email and sat on this email and finally sent it to all of our investors expecting a bunch of people to say, what the hell are you doing?
结果头一两个小时，一点动静都没有。
And for the first hour or two, crickets.
然后，我们大概三十个投资人里，只有三封邮件回复说，很好。
And then three emails come in of the 30 or so investors we have that say, great.
听起来不错。
Sounds good.
对。
Yep.
然后他们……
And they...
这再次体现了那种创业精神——需要什么，就去做。
There again was that entrepreneurial spirit of whatever you need, just go do it.
你提到，当你发现你45美元的T恤成本只有7美元时。
And you you mentioned that when you found out that your $45 T shirt costs $7.
你有没有想过，好吧。
Did you think that, okay.
我们就从同样的工厂采购这些T恤，然后以更低的价格卖出去。
We're just gonna source those T shirts from the same factories and sell them for less.
这是你的想法吗？
Was that the idea?
本应该是这样的，但当时的想法是，我们要采购所有材料，控制整个供应链，然后直接卖给消费者。
It should have been the idea, but the idea was we're gonna source all the material and control the entire supply chain and then sell directly to the consumer.
我的意思是，区别在于，一种情况是，你去找制造商，问他们能不能做T恤，收多少钱。
And what I mean by that is the differences in one case, go to a manufacturer and you say, can you make me T shirts and what are you going to charge me?
然后我拿到成品。
And I'll get the final product.
另一种情况是，我们在洛杉矶认识了不少人，然后买了布料。
And then the other one, we, you know, met a number of people down in Los Angeles and we bought the fabric.
我们学会了怎么给布料打版。
We learned how to do the patterns for the fabric.
我们做了那些版型，我们叫它尺码表，这样从小号到加大号都能做。
We had those patterns, what we call grating, so it can go from small to extra large.
我们每一步都学了，因为有个理论是，如果你想成为好厨师，就得去烹饪学校。
I mean, we learned every step of the process because there was this theory that if you're going to become a great chef, what you need to do is go to cooking school.
所以我们有点……
And so we kind of...
我们相信我们学到了……
We believed we got...
我们得先上，怎么说呢，服装学校101。
Had to go through, call it, apparel school one zero one.
你是怎么……
How did...
顺便问一下，你是怎么想到Everlane这个名字的？
By the way, how did you come up with the name Everlane?
有一天我和Jesse坐在房间里，在instantdomainsearch.com上，我们花了三个小时一直在输入各种名字，我写了一大堆草稿。
Jesse and I were sitting in a room one day on instantdomainsearch.com, and we were just for three hours typing in names, names, names, and I had a whole bunch of scratch.
而且我一直……
And I always...
你知道，我们喜欢那些简单清晰的名字，突然之间，输入了everlane.com，发现它只要17美元就能买到。
You know, we liked the names that were simple and clear, and all of a sudden, typed in everlane.com, and it was available for $17.
然后我们就买下来了。
And we bought it.
就这么定了。
That was it.
就这样定了。
That was it.
因为它没什么特别含义。
Because it doesn't mean anything.
我的意思是，它没有什么具体的含义。
I mean, it it it doesn't mean anything specific.
跟什么也扯不上关系……
There's no connection to...
可能是一条街的名字。
Could be a street.
也可能是……
It could be a...
这个名字的意思是永恒，同时又扎根于一个实体地点，因为我们做的是线上生意。
It was the idea that it was everlasting and at the same time rooted to a physical place because we were digital.
但人们对名字真的很较真。
But people get really worked up about names.
我觉得品牌和人都会活出自己的名字。
I think brands and people live into their names.
名字就成了他们的一部分。
The name becomes them.
我……
I...
我其实不太在意这些。
I'm less I'm usually not that concerned.
我觉得名字没那么重要。
I don't think names matter that much.
我们当时想做的很大一部分就是在别人做错的地方做对，而这就是讲故事真正大放异彩的地方。
And a big part of what we were trying to do was to do right where others do wrong, and that's where the storytelling really came full front.
好的。
Okay.
我们来聊聊这个“在别人做错的地方做对”吧。
Let's talk about this right where others do wrong.
什么……
What...
你说，在你看来，别人做错的地方是他们收的费用远超成本，你知道，我的意思是，这……
You you said, in your view, what others are doing wrong was they were overcharging for what it cost them, which, you know, again, I mean, that's...
不管怎么说，这就是生意。
For better or worse, that's business.
生意就是这样运作的。
That's how businesses work.
他们……
They...
在电影院里，你去小卖部买爆米花，他们收你的钱可能比成本贵了十倍。
In a movie theater, you go to the pub, get some popcorn, and they're overcharging you for that popcorn, like, a thousand percent.
但这就是……
But that's...
这就是他们赚钱的方式。
That's how they make money.
我理解你想……
I I understand you wanted to...
你基本上是想生产服装，然后让它尽可能……
You basically wanted to produce clothing and and make it as...
你知道，成为一个在线零售商。
You know, become an online retailer.
但当时是什么……
But what was it...
你还有什么打算，是和其他品牌不一样的？
What else were you gonna do that was different from other brands?
当我说“在别人做错的地方做对”时，这一切都是经过一段时间慢慢形成的，我们真的成了这个行业的学生，试着问自己：如果我们从零开始，以客户为中心来构建，那会是什么样子？
When I say that do right where others do wrong, all of that came out over a period of time in a way that we really became students of the industry and tried to say, if we were to build this from the ground up in a way that put the customer first, what would that look like?
所以价格透明就是客户体验。
So pricing transparency was Customer experience.
我们真正关注的是客户体验、沟通、社区，真正与消费者进行开放对话，这感觉和你在零售中经常遇到的恰恰相反——你进去，可能有人跟你说话，也可能没人理你。
The customer experience we really focused on, the communication, the community, really having an open dialogue with the consumer, which felt the opposite of what you actually experienced oftentimes in retail, where you would go in and somebody might talk to you, somebody might not.
寻求帮助很困难。
Getting help was challenging.
退货流程也很麻烦。
Knowing how to return things was challenging.
所以客户体验和客户服务一直是我们非常重视的核心。
So customer experience and customer service was always a big, big part of what we hung our hat on.
好的。
Okay.
我理解客户服务的概念，但这并不是什么新鲜事。
I get the idea of customer service, but that wasn't new.
我的意思是，2011年你就能在诺德斯特龙或尼曼·马库斯享受到优质客户服务。
I mean, now you could go into a Nordstrom or Neiman Marcus and get great customer service in 2011.
现在依然可以。
You still can.
那这个有什么不同呢……
What was gonna be different about this...
我的意思是，这些是……
I mean, these were...
一方面价格会更便宜，但还有什么不同呢？
It was it was gonna be cheaper for one, but what else?
其实最开始就是价格透明。明白了。
It really started out with pricing transparency Got it.
而且在这方面要诚实。
And being honest about that.
你说价格透明，具体是什么意思？
And when you say pricing transparency, what did that mean?
你是要告诉顾客这个产品的成本是多少，以及为什么以这个价格出售吗？
You were gonna tell the customer what it costs to make this product and and why you're selling it for this price?
我们最开始卖一件T恤，定价15美元。
We first started by selling a t shirt for $15.
那件T恤的质量，在当时相当于45到50美元的James Purse（詹姆斯·珀斯）品牌的质量。
That was the quality of a James purse for 45, $50 at the time.
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那你是怎么把那些T恤做出来的？
And how did you get those t shirts made?
你在哪里做的？
Where did you get them made?
在洛杉矶，从头到尾都是我们自己做的，包括采购面料。
In Los Angeles, end to end, we made them by sourcing the fabric.
我们一开始用的是Supima棉，这是美国最高品质的棉花。
We used out of the gate Supima, which is the highest quality American cotton.
对。
Yep.
然后找人，我记得我开车一小时带着面料去找裁剪师傅，他会把面料从特小号裁到加大号，然后进行裁剪。
Then finding people, I remember driving an hour with fabric and taking it to a grater, who would grade it from extra small to large, and then getting a cut.
然后我们会把裁好的布料从裁剪师傅那里送到缝纫师傅，再到染色师傅，再到整理师傅，最后包装好。
And then we would actually take it from the cutter to the sewer to the dyer to the finisher, and then package it all up.
那每件衬衫的成本是多少？
And how much did it cost you to make each shirt?
早期的时候，大概五块六美元一件。
I think in the early days it was something like $5.60.
你们是怎么做到把衬衫做得这么……
How were you able to make the shirts so...
这么便宜的？
For so little money?
是因为你们真的自己开车把布料从一个生产环节送到下一个环节吗？
Is it because you guys were literally driving it from one one part of the production process to the next?
对我来说，这就是整个行业的秘诀。
To me, that was the secret of the whole industry.
你知道，你是在做……
You know, you're you're making...
布料可能，我想想，大概一块五到两美元。
The fabric might have been, I think, call it a buck 50 to $2.
裁剪，四十五美分。
The cutting, 45¢.
James Perst 那件T恤，做两件的成本是67美元。
The James Perst tea cost $67 to make two.
而他们卖的时候，加价四到六倍。
And they were selling that for a four to six x markup.
Everlane 早期的基本原则是加价两到两倍半。
And the basic principle of Everlane in the early days was two to two and a half x markup.
就这样。
That's it.
所以，是的，我们一开始稍微便宜一点，因为所有不同的环节都是我们自己管理的。
And so, yeah, ours was a little bit cheaper out of the gate because we managed all the different steps ourselves.
但后来，过了几个月，我们找了一家代工厂，由他们来管理所有流程。
But eventually, a few months in, we contract manufactured with one vendor who actually managed all the processes
帮我们管理。
for us.
那时候是……
And this was...
所以他们能在洛杉矶全部生产吗？
And and they can make it all in Los Angeles?
对。
Correct.
从头到尾。
End to end.
是的。
Yep.
第一批大概要做多少件？一千件T恤？
And the first run was gonna be, like, what, a thousand T shirts?
差不多吧。
Something like Yeah.
第一批做了一千五百件T恤。
The first the first run was 1,500 T shirts.
就这些。
That's it.
好的。
Okay.
我们大概……
And we're probably...
把这个叫做……
Call this...
现在是十月，我们计划十一月一号推出。
We're in October now with a plan to launch November 1.
2011年。
Of twenty eleven.
对。
Yep.
所以……
So...
好吧。
Alright.
所以当时的想法是，先把这些衬衫做出来，然后再想办法怎么卖。
So the idea was, let's get these shirts made, and then we're gonna figure out how to sell them.
你当时还没成立公司吧。
You hadn't you hadn't launched the company yet.
什么都没有……
There was nothing...
那时候Everlane.com只是个占位页面。
Everlane.com was just a a placeholder at that point.
对。
Yep.
就是个占位页面。
Just a placeholder.
Everlane那边，Jesse在后台搭建了很多技术。
Everlane, Jesse was building a lot of their technology in the back end.
而且我们通过Tumblr上的不同渠道，已经积累了一个小社区。
And we had had a community, a small community that we had built through the different channels on Tumblr.
所以可以说，我们有一个五千到一万人的邮件列表，等准备好了就可以联系他们。
And so you could call it, we had five to 10,000 people on an email list that we knew we could reach out to when ready.
那时候你们有办公室了吗？
And did you have an office by that point?
我们从Dogpatch Labs搬到了旧金山金融区的一个地方，因为我们在那里待得太久了。
We had moved from Dogpatch Labs because we overdid our stay there to a place in the Financial District in San Francisco.
那里大概有一千四百平方英尺。
So it's about 1,400 square feet.
所以想法是，把衬衫卖到……
So the idea was, let's sell the shirts at...
我们基本上会用这次T恤销售来正式上线everlane.com。
We'll basically launch everlane.com with this T shirt sale.
你们打算
What were
把衬衫卖多少钱？
you gonna sell the shirts for?
15美元。
$15.
明白了。
Got it.
然后我们说，如果可以的话，咱们搞个病毒式营销活动。
And we said, let's create a viral campaign if we can.
那岂不是很好？
Wouldn't that be great?
好的。
Okay.
我们注册了。
We sign up.
我是说，这有点像做梦，但在上线前我们能注册多少人呢？
I mean, it's sort of a dream, but how many people can we sign up before launch?
所以我们建了一个简单的落地页，上面有一系列的奖励……
So we built a little landing page, and the landing page had a series of awards...
根据你邀请的人数，可以获得不同的奖励。
Rewards you could get based on the number of people you invite.
而且那是everlane.com。
And It was everlane.com.
对，就是那个。
That was Yep.
然后，如果你邀请别人，你提供真实的……
And and and if you invite people, you offered real...
比如，什么样的奖励？
Like, what kind of rewards?
如果你邀请50个人，就能终身免运费。
Free shipping for life was if you invited 50 people.
如果你邀请5个人，就能提前进入候补名单。
If you invited five people, you got early acts of the wait list.
如果你邀请10个人，首单就能免运费。
If you invited 10 people, you got free shipping on your first order.
所以它就像不同的等级，你可以看到自己处在哪个位置。
So it was like different tiers, and you could track where you were.
而且这后来成了Everlane的一个标志性做法，就是建立等待名单。
And it became a bit of a staple of Everlane over time, which is building wait lists.
但那是我们的第一个，而且概念非常简单。
But that was our first one, and it was a really simple concept.
上面写着：你的奢侈品售价是制造成本的八倍，但Everlane不是这样。
It said your luxury goods sell for eight times what they cost to make, not at Everlane.
11月1日午夜上线。
Launching November 1 at midnight.
快来注册。
Sign up.
但你们是怎么让那个页面获得关注的呢？
But how did you get any attention for that page?
这就是最初那五千到一万封邮件列表发挥作用的地方。
That's where that first five to 10,000 email list came in.
我们给那五千到一万人发了一封非常精美的邮件，说，这就是我们的产品，你们可以注册了。
We emailed those five to 10,000 people with a really nice email and said, here it is, and you can sign up.
然后我们把它发到了当时的推特上，还有其他几个地方。
And then we posted it on Twitter at the time and a couple other places.
接下来你猜怎么着，我跟你讲，这东西一下子就火了，有八万人注册。
And next thing you know, I kid you not, this thing blows up, and we have 80,000 people sign up.
哇。
Wow.
八万人。
80,000 people.
你有没有具体说价格会便宜多少？
Did you say specifically how much less it was gonna be?
我们甚至都没告诉大家我们要卖T恤。
We didn't even tell people we were offering T shirts.
所以我当时特别紧张。
So I was freaked out.
好的。
Okay.
我是说，我们都很紧张，因为大家以为我们在卖奢侈品，价格是成本的八倍。
I mean, we were all freaked out because we said they think we're selling luxury goods for eight times what they cost to make.
看看会发生什么。
Let's see what happens.
对。
Yep.
然后我们有八万人注册，感觉特别兴奋，但也觉得压力很大。
And so we had these 80,000 people and it felt really exciting, but it also felt very overwhelming.
然后我们就想，哎呀，需求远远超过了供应。
And we go, uh-oh, we have way more demand than we have supply.
而且我们甚至不知道这些人会不会生气，因为我们卖的其实就是一件T恤。
And we don't even know if these people are gonna be pissed off because actually what we're just selling is a t shirt.
稍后回来，Everlane 通过公开服装的真实成本，在时尚界引起了不小的轰动。
When we come back in just a moment, Everlane causes a big stir in the fashion industry by telling people just how much their clothing actually costs.
请继续收听。
Stay with us.
我是盖伊·拉兹，你正在收听的是《我是如何打造这个的》。
I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to how I built this.
你知道吗，超过80%的人都有一些自己已经忘记的订阅？
Did you know that over 80% of people have subscriptions they've forgotten about?
太容易了，订阅某个免费试用，然后一旦停止使用，就完全忘了，而这时月费就开始扣了。
It's too easy to subscribe to a free trial of something and then completely forget about it once you stop using it right as the monthly charges start rolling in.
我也经历过。
I've been there.
我有一些忘记的订阅，甚至有的被扣了两次钱都没发现。
There are subscriptions I have forgotten about and even ones where I was charged twice and didn't realize it.
这就是为什么我非常喜欢Rocket Money。
That's why I'm such a big fan of Rocket Money.
Rocket Money是一款个人理财应用，能帮你找到并取消不需要的订阅，监控你的支出，还能帮你降低账单，所有这些都在一个地方搞定。
Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills all in one place.
目前已有超过500万用户，Rocket Money帮助客户平均每年节省720美元，总节省金额已达10亿美元。
With over 5,000,000 users and counting, Rocket Money has helped save its customers an average of $720 a year and $1,000,000,000 in total savings so far.
别再为用不上的东西浪费钱了。
Stop wasting money on things you don't use.
取消你不需要的订阅，轻松管理你的财务，只需访问rocketmoney.com/built。
Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and manage your money the easy way by going to rocketmoney.com/built.
网址是rocketmoney.com/built。
That's rocketmoney.com/built.
Rocketmoney.com/built。
Rocketmoney.com/built.
我采访过很多企业领袖，他们都用Squarespace作为一站式平台来打造品牌和在线吸引客户。
I talked with so many business leaders who use Squarespace as their all in one platform for building their brand and engaging customers online.
Squarespace让你轻松创建动态网站，销售任何东西，包括你的产品、服务，甚至你创作的内容。
Squarespace lets you easily create a dynamic website and sell anything, your products and services and even the content you create.
从顶级网站模板开始，然后根据你的需求进行定制。
Get started with a best in class website template and customize it to fit your needs.
浏览你所在行业的分类，找到一个完美的起点。
Browse the category of your business to find a perfect starting place.
每个Squarespace网站和在线商店都配备了一整套集成功能和实用指南，帮助你在搜索结果中脱颖而出。
Every Squarespace website and online store comes with a suite of integrated features and useful guides that help maximize prominence among search results.
利用洞察来发展你的业务。
Use insights to grow your business.
了解你的网站访问和销售来源，分析哪些渠道最有效。
Learn where your site visits and sales are coming from and analyze which channels are most effective.
根据你的热门关键词或最受欢迎的产品和内容，改进你的网站并制定营销策略。
Improve your website and build a marketing strategy based on your top keywords or most popular products and content.
访问squarespace.com/built免费试用。
Go to squarespace.com/built for a free trial.
当你准备好上线时，使用优惠码built，首次购买网站或域名可享受10%的折扣。
And when you're ready to launch, use offer code built to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
嘿，我是怎么打造这个的。
Hey, how I built this.
我叫埃里克·塞德兰兹，来自南卡罗来纳州的希尔顿黑德岛。
My name is Eric Sedranz and I'm from Hilton Head Island, South Carolina.
毫无疑问，我最喜欢的一集是爱彼迎那集。
Without a doubt, my favorite episode of all time is the Airbnb one.
作为创业者，我经常回想起他们卖奥巴马和麦凯恩麦片的事，那真是创业精神的典范，为了多撑一天，什么都愿意做。
As an entrepreneur myself, I think back often to them selling Obama and McCain cereal as the definition of an entrepreneurial move in doing whatever it takes to keep your business alive for just one more day.
如果你想分享你最喜欢的一集《我是如何打造这个的》，用手机录一段简短的语音备忘录，告诉我们你的名字、来自哪里、最喜欢哪一集，以及为什么。
If you wanna share your favorite episode of how I built this, record a short voice memo on your phone telling us your name, where you're from, what your favorite episode is, and why.
就像你刚才听到的那段语音备忘录一样。
A lot like the voice memo you just heard.
然后发邮件到 hibt@id.Wondery.com，我们会在未来节目的广告时间分享你的最爱。
And email it to us at hibt@id.Wondery.com, and we'll share your favorites right here in the ad breaks in future episodes.
非常感谢。
And thanks so much.
我们爱你们。
We love you guys.
你最棒了。
You're the best.
好了，我们回到节目中来。
And now, back to the show.
嘿。
Hey.
欢迎回到《我是如何打造这个的》。
Welcome back to How I Built This.
我是盖伊·拉兹。
I'm Guy Raz.
那是2011年，Everlane距离上线只有几个小时，准备了1500件T恤，有8万人的等候名单，还有一套清晰的制造热度的策略。
So it's 2011, and Everlane is hours away from launch with 1,500 t shirts, a wait list of 80,000 people, and a clear strategy for how to generate buzz.
所以我们发了一封邮件，说我们有8万人，但没法让所有人都进来。
So we send an email that says we have 80,000 people but can't let you all in.
所以你现在是在排队等待进入everlane.com。
So you're now on a wait list to be let into everlane.com.
我们把everlane.com设了个门槛。
And we put everlane.com behind a wall.
所以我们用1500件T恤上线，先放了一万或五千人进来。
And so we launched with 1,500 T shirts and let five or 10,000 people in.
但幸运的是，我们知道还能再生产5000件T恤，然后再放下一批人进来。
But fortunately, we knew we could create another 5,000 T shirts and then let the next tranche of people in.
所以这真的成了我们第一年建立业务和势头的方式。
And so that really became the way we built a bit of the business and the momentum for the first year.
你有没有……
Did you...
因为你还有一批T恤。
Because you had another run of T shirts.
你卖完了吗？
Did you sell all of them out fair...
卖得挺快的吧？
Relatively quickly?
第一批很快就卖光了。
The first run sold out.
我是说，1500件T恤，每件15美元。
I mean, was 1,500 T shirts times $15.
一两天就卖完了。
It it sold out in a day or two.
真的很快。
I mean, quickly.
我们用的都是棉质的。
And we did everything we did with cotton.
对某些人来说，那就是Supima棉，我们叫成衣染色。
And for a certain group of people, that's just Supima cotton, all what we call garment dyed.
毫无疑问，质量更好。
It was a higher quality product, without a doubt.
我明白。
I I get that.
但你是怎么跟别人传达这一点的？
But how did you how did you communicate that to people?
因为邮件列表上的大多数人，你知道，都是……
Because most of the people on that email list were, you know, are...
我想，像大多数消费者一样，他们一开始只是在找最划算的。
I would imagine, like most consumers, are just looking for the best deal initially.
嗯，这个嘛，你知道，我也不太清楚。
Well, this is where, you know, I don't know.
我相信人们不是那样的，有两个原因。
I I believe that people are different than that for two reasons.
第一，那是特定的时间和地点。
One, it was a time and place.
当时在网上推出的品牌太少了。
There were so few brands being launched on online.
现在到处都是，一抓一大把。
Now it's a dime a dozen all over the place.
我觉得Instagram和TikTok已经变成了美国的购物中心。
Think Instagram and TikTok have become, the shopping malls of America.
你随时都能发现一些小品牌。
You're discovering small brands all the time.
那时候Instagram才刚刚上线。
Instagram had just launched.
其实，我们当时就坐在Mikey和Kevin旁边，他们推出Instagram的时候，因为他们在Dogpatch Labs，但当时没人觉得它会用来购物。
In fact, we actually sat next to Mikey and Kevin when they launched Instagram because they were in Dogpatch Labs, but no one thought it was for shopping at the time.
现在，我们被各种新发现淹没，以至于发现新东西都觉得很平常了，比如，好吧，我发现了新东西。
Today, we're so saturated with discovery that it it it feels a bit banal that, okay, I discovered something new.
哦，那个我早就听说过了。
Oh, I already heard about that.
但那时候，情况有点……
But back then, it was a bit...
即使是十年前，也和现在大不相同，那时候TikTok和Instagram还没崛起。
Even ten years ago, very different pre the rise of TikTok and Instagram.
所以其中有一个方面就是，哦，网上有新东西了。
And so there was one element of it that was, oh, there's something new online.
另一个方面是，这家公司承诺了这种品质，我对这个感兴趣。
And then another that was this company's promising this quality and I'm interested in that.
不仅仅是价格。
It's not just price.
还有……
It's...
价格背后有故事。
There's a story behind the price.
不过，我确实觉得你说得对。
But of course, I do think you're right.
我们确实纠结过，怎么让人们在网上明白，我们15美元的T恤真的很不一样。
We we did struggle with saying how do people understand that our $15 T shirt is really different when we're online?
所以一个月后，也就是11月底，我们实际上推出了透明定价，就是说，我们没什么可失去的。
And so a month in, at the end of November, we actually launched what our what started transparent pricing, which is we said, we've got nothing to lose.
我们为什么不直接告诉大家我们的成本是多少呢？
Why don't we tell people exactly what our costs are?
从头到尾。
End to end.
那你们是怎么做到的？
And how did you do that?
你们是怎么传达这个信息的？
How did you communicate that?
我们做了一个信息图，展示了所有成本，然后把它放在产品页面上，也放到了Tumblr上，然后说，让它传播出去吧。
We built an infographic that showed all the costs, and we put it up on our product page, and we put it up on Tumblr, and we said, let it go.
结果真的被大家关注了。
And it got picked up.
这个叫做“一件设计师T恤的诞生”。
This was called the making of a designer tee.
我现在正在看这个呢。
I'm looking at it now.
那是……
It was...
这个信息图做得真好。
It's a wonderful infographic.
它基本上展示了制作一件衬衫的成本。
It basically shows you the price that it it cost to make a shirt.
棉花2.75美元，裁剪35美分，缝纫1.35美元，染色50美分，整理1.25美元，运输50美分。
Cotton, $2.75, cutting at 35¢, sewing, a dollar 35, dyeing, 50¢, finishing, a dollar 25, transport, 50¢.
品牌成本6.70美元，卖给零售商15美元，卖给你50美元。
Cost of the brand, $6.70, sells to retailers for 15, sells to you for $50.
所以你把这张信息图发出去，很多人看到了。
So you put this infographic out there, and lots of people see this.
我的意思是，这绝对会火起来。
I mean, like, this this definitely goes viral.
虽然只是一串数字，但它以自己独特的方式显得很有人情味，让人觉得，哦，这挺有意思的。
It was a series of numbers, but it was very human in its own way that people felt like, oh, that's interesting.
我以前从来不知道这些信息，现在这家公司把它分享出来了。
I never knew this information, and now this company is sharing it.
在很多方面，这也是互联网的意义所在，就是让你看到以前不知道的事情。
And in a lot of ways, that's also what the Internet's about, is exposing things that you didn't know before.
所以你把这张信息图发出去，不出意料，它也惹恼了一些人，因为他们……
So you put this infographic out, and not not surprisingly, it it also irritated some people because they've...
你知道，你……
You know, you...
他们的指责是，嘿，
The the accusation was, hey.
这完全是把事情简单化了。
This is a total oversimplification.
这实际上并不准确。
Like, this is not actually accurate.
然后，是的。
And, you know Yep.
说实话，这张信息图没解释清楚的一点是，这件衬衫的制造成本是6.7美元，然后批发商，也就是工厂，以15美元的价格卖给零售商。
I mean, one of the things to to be fair, that the infographic doesn't explain is the the cost of manufacturing the shirt is $6.70, and then the wholesaler, the factory sells it to retailer for $15.
但中间还有那个……
But then there's that...
从15美元到50美元的差价里，包含了很多营销成本。
The 15 to $50 gap involves a lot of marketing costs.
比如说，你可以拿一双古驰的拖鞋来举例。
I mean, you could you could make the case about, like, a pair of Gucci slippers.
意大利有工厂能做出同样的拖鞋，成本大概只要60美元。
Like, there are factories in Italy that can make the same slippers for, you know, $60.
那为什么卖900美元呢？
Why are they $900?
因为你是在为品牌买单。
Because you're paying for the brand.
所以这就是……
So that's the...
我的意思是，那些成本……
I mean, the the costs...
那时候相关的成本是因为这些公司在打造品牌，他们必须为此买单。
The associated costs at that point were because these companies were building a brand, and they had to pay for it.
而且他们有批发商，还有利润率，如果你是古驰的话，利润率是30%。
And they had wholesalers, and they had profit margins, if you're Gucci, of 30%.
而我们很幸运，当时规模小，而且非常非常简单。
And we had the fortune of being small and at that time being very, very simple.
所以我们直接销售，并且分享我们的模式。
And so we just sold direct and shared our model.
对，他们不喜欢这样，但正如你所说，这也许就是资本主义。
And, yeah, they didn't like it, but that's, to your point, perhaps capitalism.
当时有一个……
There there was a...
博客Well Spent写道，这是一个……
The blog Well Spent wrote, this is a a...
我想，是一个时尚博客，或者，你知道，一个消费时尚品牌。
I guess, a fashion blog or, you know, consumer fashion brand.
他们写道……
They wrote...
我对这张图的不满在于，它是个危险的过度简化。
My issue with the the graphic is it's a dangerous oversimplification.
基本上，Everlane是在试图把任何制造成本超过2.2倍……
Essentially, Everlane is attempting to demonize any clothing company charging greater than 2.2 pi...
5%的服装公司都妖魔化，这太荒谬了。
5% in manufacturing costs, and that's ludicrous.
所以你们……
So you're...
你知道，你们有点引起了轰动。
You know, you kinda create a stir.
但你们……
But you guys...
看起来那好像是……的一部分。
It seems like that was part of...
那大概就是希望发生的事。
That was kind of the hope that that would happen.
毫无疑问。
Without a doubt.
那挺有意思的。
That was fun.
所以你做了第二批，T恤还是卖光了。
So you do the second run, and you keep selling out shirts.
而且，顺便说一句，你对那些代表零售集团的人的回应，就是，听着，我们是线上生意。
And and by the way, I mean, your response to attacks from from people who represent, you know, retail groups is like, listen, we're an online business.
所以我们不需要……
And so we don't have to...
没有中间商。
There's no middleman.
那么，到了哪个阶段，你知道，在这个……是2012年……
So at what point, you know, in in this is '2...
现在你进入2012年，你得到了很多关注，显然，因为你知道，人们买……
Now you're getting into 2012, and you're getting a lot of attention from, obviously, as, you know, people buy...
人们买这些T恤，你得到了媒体的关注。
Are buying these shirts, you're getting media attention.
你是在什么时候说，好吧。
What point did you say, alright.
我们得做T恤以外的东西了。
We've gotta make other things besides T shirts.
那其实是在，我想，2011年12月1日。
That actually came, I think, 12/01/2011.
好的。
Okay.
我们发现……
We had found...
而且，Everlane的理念其实就是一个直接面向消费者的平台。
And again, the idea of Everlane was really a platform for going direct to consumer.
所以最奇怪的是，你根本想不到，如果今天你要创立一个品牌，从T恤开始，你的下一个产品会是……
And so the strangest thing you would never expect, if you were to build a brand today and you start with a T shirt, your next product would...
可能是牛仔裤。
Might be denim.
然后你可能会做毛衣，接着做纽扣衬衫，按照合理的顺序来搭建产品线。
Then you might do sweaters, and then you might do button downs and build a merchandise align appropriately.
而我们的下一个产品，因为我们在行业里没有任何人脉，居然就是领带和领结。
Our next product, because we had no contacts in the industry, was literally ties and bow ties.
领带和领结？
Ties and bow ties?
对，领带和领结。
Ties and bow ties.
是在布朗克斯的一家工厂生产的，那家工厂给Brooks Brothers做所有东西。
Made in a factory in The Bronx that manufactured everything for Brooks Brothers.
哇。
Wow.
我们以35美元的价格卖掉了它们，我们买了1200条领带和领结。
And we sold them for $35 and we bought 1,200 ties and bow ties.
这非常不寻常……
It's a very unusual...
你知道，我，我……
You know, I'm I'm...
考虑到你们对T恤和直接面向消费者的模式显然考虑得那么周到，还和服装行业的人以及Warby Parker聊过，这看起来就像是……
Given how obviously how thoughtful you guys were about T shirts and about direct to consumer and talking to all these people in the apparel industry and talking to Warby Parker, Like, it just seems like an...
有点像……
Like a kind of a...
就像在飞镖盘上随便扔飞镖。
Just throwing a dart at a dartboard.
咱们做领结吧。
Let's do bow ties.
你说得对。
You are correct.
确实挺奇怪的。
It is weird.
我也没有特别好的解释，就是当时我们没什么人脉，而且如果要推出卫衣、毛衣和衬衫，得等六到十二个月，因为找工厂、找面料就得花那么长时间。
I don't have a great explanation for you other than I was we didn't have a lot of connections and it was we would have to wait six to twelve months to be able to launch a sweatshirt and a sweater and a button down because that's how long it would take us to find the factory, source the fabric.
但我们的另一个选择是，有个哥们儿能在两个月内做出领带和蝶形领结。
And our alternative was we had a guy that could make ties and bow ties in two months.
然后我们就说，那就做这个吧。
And we just said, let's do that.
一直都是抱着试试看的心态。
It was always, let's try it.
不行就换别的。
If it doesn't work, move on.
那这些卖得怎么样？
And how did those do?
我们后来再也没做过领带和领结。
We never made ties and bow ties again.
就这么说吧。
Let's just put it that way.
我觉得最后可能送出去了一些。
I think we ended up potentially giving some away.
我是说，那个领结……
I mean, the the the bow tie...
就像，文青、便宜服装和布鲁克林这三者的交集，中间就是领结。
Like, Venn diagram of, like, hipsters and, I guess, cheap apparel and Brooklyn, I guess, middle of that is a bow tie.
但市场不够大……
But it's not a big enough...
就像，当时有……
Like, there were...
你知道的，对，领结确实火过一阵。
You know, right, there's a bow tie thing.
有一阵子，城市里到处都是留着八字胡、系着皮围裙、戴着领结的人。
You had, like, people with the, you know, handlebar mustaches and leather aprons and bow ties walking around urban areas for a while.
但那个潮流没持续多久。
But that wasn't a very long lasting thing.
所以我真没法想象，
So I can't imagine, like
对。
No.
你知道，你
You know, you
真能靠领结做成一门生意。
could really build a business on the bow tie.
我觉得当时我们就是想赶紧把东西做出来。
I think it was just we wanted to get things out the door.
我们有个工厂，然后就说，开工吧。
We had a factory, and we said, go.
确实，除了我们今天聊这个，在everlane.com购物的人没人知道这个故事。
And indeed, other than us talking about this today, nobody who shops on everlane.com knows this story.
你……
You...
我觉得你的联合创始人Jesse离开了。
I think your cofounder, Jesse, left.
一个月后吧。
One month then.
一个月后。
One month then.
不是2012年。
Not in 2012.
他2011年离开的。
He left in 2011.
他2011年12月离开的。
He left in December 2011.
为什么？
Why?
我相信你肯定经历过很多这样的对话。
I'm sure you've had many of these conversations.
联合创始人的旅程是……
The cofounder journey is...
这是一段充满挑战的旅程，因为某种程度上，你就像和某人结了婚，然后花大量时间一起创业。
It's a challenging one because in some ways, you're getting married to somebody, but then you're spending all this time and building a business with them.
对杰西来说，他最终想要的是打造一家科技公司。
At the end of the day, for Jesse, what he wanted was to build a technology business.
而我们后来偏离了科技公司的方向，转向了品牌建设。
And what we moved away from was being a technology business, and we moved into building a brand.
那不是他想要的旅程。
And that wasn't the journey he wanted to be on.
我非常佩服他做出那个决定，因为我觉得没多少人能做到这一点。
And I commend him a lot for making that decision because I don't think a lot of people would be able to do that.
这甚至在我们发布之前就发生了。
This was even before we launched.
他说，嘿，我打算退出了。
He said, hey, I'm gonna bow out.
我会帮你把产品推上线，然后你需要另找一位技术负责人。
I'm gonna help you launch, and then you need to find another tech person.
我记得那段时间压力特别大，不过幸运的是，我找到了一个人，叫南宇，他既是工程师，又对时尚和风格非常了解，后来成了我们的工程主管，在公司待了六七年，组建了团队。
And I remember that being so stressful and and was fortunately able to find somebody, an individual named Nan Yu, who was both an engineer and incredibly well versed in fashion and style that became our head of engineering and was at the company for six, seven years building the team.
不过那确实是一段压力很大的时期。
So it was it was a very stressful period, though.
但让我觉得了不起的是，你显然在一年之后，就已经没有……
But what's amazing to me is that you clearly, already a year in, you did not...
就是，Everlane后来为人所知的……
Like, what Everlane became known to...
以及它后来成为的样子，并不是你当时的样子。
For and what it became known as was not what you were at the time.
你并没有在一开始就把这些定下来，比如我们要做一个做基础款的服装品牌。
You didn't, like, bake this into the beginning of, like, we are going to be an apparel brand that does basics.
那只是其中之一……
Like, that was one...
或者说，透明定价也是其中的一部分。
Or, you know, the transparent pricing was part of it.
那并不是……
That was not...
这几乎就像，我……
It was almost like, I...
借用这个比喻，你是在一边飞飞机一边造飞机，同时还在卖东西……
To overuse this metaphor, you were flying a plane and building it, and you were also selling things in...
飞机上还有乘客。
Had passengers in the plane.
而且我们基本上是在卖任何我们能带上飞机的东西。
And we're selling them anything we could, you know, bring into the plane, basically.
所以一直...
So ever...
所以这真的是...
So this was this was really...
当时并不清楚。
It was not clear.
就是说，你甚至不太确定自己当时到底在做什么。
Like, you you weren't really sure what you were even at that point.
商业模式是清楚的，就是直接面向消费者。
The business model was clear, which was direct to consumer.
但我们是时尚品牌吗？
But are we a fashion brand?
我们是基础款品牌吗？
Are we a basics brand?
我们是一个产品平台，只是个零售商吗？
Are we a platform for products that's just a retailer?
我们一开始并没有这个想法。
We didn't go into it with that idea.
我们一开始想的是怎么直接卖给消费者，提供高质量的产品，并围绕它讲一个故事。
We went into it with how do we sell directly to the consumer, high quality product, and tell a story around it.
好的。
Okay.
你有没有……
Did did you...
只是好奇，你有没有……
Just out of curiosity, did you have...
没有也没关系，因为我认识很多很棒的公司也没这么做。
And no there's no judgment if you didn't because I've got plenty of great companies who didn't do this.
但你们有没有……
But did you...
你们觉得你们有没有把使命融入……
Do you feel like you had baked mission...
从一开始就把使命融入公司，还是后来才有的？
The mission into the into the company from the beginning, or would that come later?
精神上是有的。
Spiritually, yes.
但没写下来。
Written down, no.
不过，你知道，有一条外在的准则，就是100美元以下的奢侈品，你的奢侈品售价是成本的八倍。
But, you know, there was an external line, the luxury essentials under $100, your luxury goods sell for eight times what it cost to make.
有一种精神，就是打造一个对消费者诚实的品牌。
There was a spirit of let's build a brand that's honest with the consumer.
但这意味着……
But but that would imply...
而且，我再次反驳，只是因为这是我的工作，但我的意思是，那意味着其他零售商对消费者不诚实。
And, again, I'm pushing back only because and it's part of my job, but, I mean, that would imply that the other the other retailers were dishonest with the consumer.
这是真的吗？
Is that is that true?
你是在暗示这个意思吗？
Is that what you were implying?
你这里有个很有意思的区别，因为一开始是诚实，后来变成了透明。
So you have a interesting distinction there because what started as honesty became transparency.
这就是演变的过程。
And that was the evolution.
明白了。
Got it.
好的。
Okay.
因为对我们来说，那样做感觉不诚实。
Because it it to us felt dishonest.
然后我觉得后来我们意识到，其实他们并不是不诚实。
And then I think there was a point where we realized actually, they're not dishonest.
他们只是在做他们自己的事，但我们可以拥有的不同之处就是透明。
They're just doing what they're doing, but the vehicle that we can have that's different is transparency.
所以那个透明度的图表就是这么来的。
And that's how that transparency graphic got born.
然后我们就开始告诉大家，我们接下来要做什么。
And that's how we started to tell people, here's what we're making next.
你们想投票决定吗？
Do you want to vote on it?
告诉我们你们对这个产品的看法。
Tell us what you think of this product.
给我们反馈。
Give us feedback.
一切都公开透明。
Everything was out in the open.
我想，既然说到你们接下来要做什么，你们在寻找下一个产品的时候，最后选了背包，这挺有意思的。
And I guess kind of on on the subject of of what you're making next, I guess as you're kind of looking for the next product, you land on backpacks next, which is interesting.
我们不久前在节目里聊过Herschel Supply Company。
We did a Herschel Supply Company on the show not too long ago.
这真是个有趣的故事，你知道，关于背包以及他们为什么选择做背包。
It's a fascinating story about, you know, backpacks and and why they went into that.
所以差不多就是那个时候，你们开始考虑做背包，心想，好吧。
So it was around this time, really, you go into backpacks thinking, okay.
这可能是我们的下一个产品。
This could be our next thing.
就是好奇，为什么选背包呢？
And just out of curiosity, why backpacks?
我觉得正如你所说，当时正好是Herschel火的时候。
I think exactly to what you said, there was the moment of Herschel.
那时候有个趋势，而且我们跟一家工厂有联系。
There was a trend happening, and we've had a connection to a factory.
你们的商业模式让这种快速转型成为可能。
And your business model enabled this kind of quick pivoting.
你们基本上能发现什么热门，快速生产，限量发售，卖完就转向下一个产品。
You could basically identify something that was hot, make it quickly, make a limited number, sell them out, then move on to the next thing.
对。
Yep.
而且不仅如此，我们还能预售产品，这在当时可不是谁都能做到的。
And not only that, but we could presell things, which, you know, wasn't a thing people could do back then.
我猜，你筹到的那一百万美元肯定不够用吧。
And and I have to assume, I mean, that million dollars that you raised was not gonna be enough.
那你是怎么搞定背包的？
I mean, how were you able to to do the backpacks?
你是不是还得再筹更多的钱？
Did you have to raise more money?
我记得是在2012年3月，我们筹到了下一笔资金。
It was in March 2012, I believe, when we raised our next amount of money.
那时候我们每个月大概能赚10到20万美元，但每个月都卖断货。
We had been doing about a 100 to $200,000 a month, but selling out every month.
那挺不错的。
It's pretty good.
那感觉挺好的。
It was nice.
那是一段不错的经历。
It was a good was a good run.
然后我们就出去融资了。
And then we went out to raise.
我记得那时候我们融了250万美元，因为业务已经跑起来了，而且当时D2C模式还处于早期阶段。
I think we raised $2,500,000 at that point just because the business was working and we were in the early days of the D2C.
一下子就成了。
Boom.
这笔钱让我们把业务推向了下一个阶段，也让我们有钱去采购背包了。
And that allowed us to take the business to the next stage, and allowed us to buy backpacks.
当时我们最大的开销之一就是库存，也就是采购新产品。
I mean, of the biggest costs for us at the time was inventory, just buying new product.
因为我们跟工厂的账期条件不是很好。
Because we didn't have great, what you call terms with factories.
我们花了一段时间才真正能和工厂建立合作关系，做到交货后六十天再付款。
It took a while to get us to a place where we could actually have a relationship with factories and pay them, you know, sixty days after delivery.
很多时候我们得提前付款。
A lot of times we were paying upfront.
在……
On...
那确实很……对。
That was very Yeah.
然后，你知道，时间快进到2012年11月1日，我们推出了背包。
Then, you know, fast forwarding a bit to 11/01/2012, we had launched backpacks.
我们正在制定商品策略。
We were building a merchandising strategy.
我们推出了纽扣衬衫、丝绸衬衫和羊绒衫。
We launched button downs, silk shirts and a cashmere.
所以我们制造了所有这些热度。
And so we built all this hype.
我们在2012年11月1日，也就是我们的一周年纪念日，一直熬到凌晨两点。
And we stayed up till 2AM on 11/01/2012, our one year anniversary.
凌晨两点，我们在网站上发布了产品，突然销量飙升。
And at 2AM, we launched the products on the site and all of a sudden sales spike.
我们在凌晨两点，二十分钟内就完成了整整一天的销售额，我们还以为是网站出了问题，出了故障。
We did at two in the morning an entire day's worth of sales in twenty minutes and we thought that the site was broken and something had glitched.
然后我们手动核对了每一笔订单，确实，人们一直等到凌晨两点，就为了等我们的牛津衬衫、丝绸和羊绒产品上线。
And we then we verified every order by hand and indeed people had stayed up till two in the morning waiting for our Oxfords and, you know, silk and cashmere to launch.
那是其中一个……
That was one of the...
那是让我们惊叹的时刻之一。
One of those moments that we said, woah.
我们可能真的做对了什么。
We we might have something here.
稍后回来，迈克尔将重新思考Everlane的增长策略及其对彻底透明的态度。
When we come back in just a moment, Michael rethinks Everlane's growth strategy and its approach to radical transparency.
请继续收听。
Stay with us.
我是盖伊·拉兹，你正在收听的是《我是如何打造这个的》。
I'm Guy Raz, and you're listening to how I built this.
这个假期，给自己一份疯狂省钱的礼物吧，用Mint Mobile年度最佳无线套餐。
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现在，当你切换到Mint Mobile并购买任意三个月套餐，你将免费获得另外三个月。
Right now, when you switch to Mint Mobile and buy any three month plan, you'll get another three months for free.
也就是说，以三个月的价格享受六个月的优质无线服务。
That's six months of premium wireless service for the price of three.
Mint Mobile让你在家就能下单和激活，同时每月仅需15美元起，就能省下大量话费。
Mint Mobile lets you order and activate from home while saving tons on phone plans starting at just $15 a month.
说真的，我想不出比用Mint Mobile把昂贵的无线账单变成每月仅15美元更好的礼物了。
Seriously, I can't think of a better gift than turning an overpriced wireless bill into just $15 a month with Mint Mobile.
切换到Mint Mobile后，我每月能省下这么多钱，真是让我大吃一惊。
I was blown away by how much money I was able to save each month by switching to Mint Mobile.
省下来的钱，我就能带老婆出去吃顿好的了。
That is money back that I'm able to put towards going out to dinner with my wife.
而且转用Mint Mobile真的很简单。
And switching to Mint Mobile is really easy.
我都不用换电话号码。
I didn't have to change phone lines.
号码还是原来那个。
I kept my same number.
联系人也都轻松导入过来了。
My contacts all imported over really easily.
整个过程特别顺畅。
It was incredibly seamless.
限时优惠，买任意三个月的Mint Mobile套餐，就再送三个月免费，快去mintmobile.com/built看看吧。
For a limited time, buy any three month Mint Mobile plan and get three more months free by going to mintmobile.com/built.
网址是mintmobile.com/built。
That's mintmobile.com/built.
把无线话费降到每月15美元，去mintmobile.com/built就能办。
Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com/built.
用Sonos Beam提升你的娱乐体验，这是一款紧凑型智能条形音箱，适合电视、音乐等场景。
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看电视时，你能享受环绕立体声，看电影、玩游戏都带感；关掉电视，还能播音乐、播客等。
Enjoy panoramic sound for shows, movies, and games when the TV is on, and stream music, podcasts, and more when it's off.
Beam经过精密工程打造，再由奥斯卡和格莱美获奖制作人调音，对话清晰，低音强劲。
Precision engineered, then fine tuned by Oscar and Grammy winning producers, Beam delivers crystal clear dialogue and powerful bass.
其实我家就有一个，效果超棒。
In fact, I have one in my house and it is amazing.
听起来有点老套，但听的时候真的感觉就像和表演者同处一室。
It sounds a little like a cliche, but it does sound like you are there in the room with the performers when you listen to it.
安装几乎就是即插即用。
The setup is practically plug and play.
Sonos应用会一步步引导你完成设置，包括同步电视遥控器、连接音乐服务、添加语音助手等。
The Sonos app walks you through getting started step by step including syncing your TV remote, connecting your music services, and adding a voice assistant.
我自己都试过，大概花了五分钟吧，我也不太确定。
I even did it myself, and it took me, I don't know, like five minutes.
它有个语音增强模式，特别适合看电影时角色在低声说话或者动作场面变激烈的时候。还有个夜间模式，可以在家里其他人想工作或睡觉时降低那些响亮的效果音。快去sonos.com看看吧，现在到11月27号，部分产品最高可享25%的折扣，售完即止。
There's a speech enhancement mode, which is perfect for when you're watching a movie and the characters are whispering, or the action intensifies, or there's is a night sound which can kind of tone down loud effects when other people at home are trying to work or sleep, head over to sonos.com and enjoy up to 25% of select products right now through November 27 or while supplies last.
嘿。
Hey.
欢迎回到《我是如何打造这个的》。
Welcome back to How I Built This.
我是盖伊·拉兹。
I'm Guy Raz.
那是2012年，也就是Everlane上线一年后，他们的营收已经达到了大约400万美元。
So it's 2012, a year after launch, and Everlane has done about $4,000,000 in revenue.
一年后，他们增长到了1200万。
A year later, they're up to 12,000,000.
再下一年，他们的销售额基本上翻了一番，达到了2400万美元。
And the year after that, they basically double it to $24,000,000 in sales.
那个增长……
Was that growth...
我是说，你们有在营销上花钱吗？
I mean, were you spending any money on marketing?
还是说只是……
Was it just...
我很难相信那完全是靠自然增长。
It's hard for me to believe that it was entirely organic.
几乎全是自然增长。
It was almost all organic.
就是……
It was...
大家都在谈论这个品牌，讲述它的故事。
People were talking about the brand, telling the story.
商业是最古老的交流方式之一，而且它是……
Commerce is one of the oldest forms of communication, and it's the...
你知道，这是一种交易形式，也是文化的支柱。
You know, it's a form of trade, and it's such a backbone of culture.
尤其是在美国，人们喜欢买东西，然后告诉别人他们买了什么。
And particularly in America, people love to buy things and tell you what they bought.
所以如果你做出有趣的东西，人们愿意谈论它们，听着，我们不是在造iPhone，但想想谁做得好，比如耐克。
And so if you made things that were interesting and people wanted to talk about them, listen, we're not building iPhones, but talk about someone who did that well or Nike.
你知道，人们会排好几天的队。
You know, it's like people line up for days.
就这样，我们做限量产品，人们会讨论它们。
And in that way, we were building things that had limited quantities and people were talk about it.
所以在你成长的过程中，我想你融资应该变得相当容易了。
So as you were growing, I mean, I have to imagine it became fairly easy for you to raise money.
你可能有投资者非常迫切地想进入这个行业。
You probably had investors who were really desperately trying to get into this business.
我们确实有这样的机会。
We definitely had the opportunities.
所以我们总共筹集了2500万，而且我们是盈利的。
And so we raised 25,000,000 in total, and we were profitable.
那是在2017年，对Everlane来说是极其关键的一年，我们一年内从5300万增长到了1亿。
And that was the year 2017, which was a hugely pivotal year for Everlane when we went from $53,000,000 to a 100,000,000 in one year.
跟我说说……
Tell me about...
我的意思是，在那之前，我想，因为对于某些类型的公司来说，尤其是那些早期表现很好的公司，自然的发展轨迹就是不断增长、增长、再增长。
I mean, before that time, I mean, I have have to imagine because this is a natural progression for certain types of companies, especially when they're doing well very early is grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.
我想你的想法肯定是，我们……
And I have to imagine that was your view that we...
就让我们放手一搏吧。
Let's just let's just go crazy.
让我们大规模地扩张这个业务。
Let's grow this thing massively.
当然。
Definitely.
而且那是个正确的决定。
And it was the right decision.
但如果是现在，我会做的决定——我觉得现在每个人也都在这么做——就是当我们达到一亿并且盈利的时候，就该从增长我们所说的“顶线”，也就是收入，转向增长“底线”了。
But the decision I would have made now, and I think everybody's making even today, is that when we hit a 100 and we were profitable, that it was the time to transition from growing what we call the top line, which is the revenue, to growing the bottom line.
所以当我们做到，比如说，3400万利润的时候，重点应该是怎么建立纪律，让这个数字明年变成1000万，后年变成2000万，等等等等，而不是以牺牲底线为代价去增长顶线。
So when we did, you know, call it $34,000,000 of profit, the the focus should have been how do we build and discipline and get this to 10,000,000 next year, and then 20,000,000 the year after, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, versus how do we grow the top line at the expense of the bottom line.
我是说，你在2011年创办了这家公司。
I mean, you you start this thing in 2011.
到2013年底，你的销售额已经达到13.12亿美元了。
By the end of 2013, you've got $1,312,000,000 dollars in sales.
所以你现在经营的不是一家小公司了，你知道，有25、30、40个员工。
So you're running us, you know, not as insignificant business now with, you know, 25, 30, 40 employees.
而且，你知道，你当时还年轻。
And, you know, you were still a young guy.
你是怎么学习如何当领导的？
How were you learning about how to be a leader?
我觉得，我猜你有时候肯定做得不太好。
I mean, I I have to assume that at times you did it badly.
绝对是的。
Absolutely.
那时候我才27、28岁。
And I I was 27, 28 at the time.
我们做得特别好的一点，我觉得也是我做得好的地方，就是我们建立了一种非常创业型的文化。
What we did really well, and I guess what I did well, was we built a very entrepreneurial culture.
布莱尔，我们团队里的一个创意人员，她说她……
Blair, who was a creative at the team, said she...
她……
Her...
她最喜欢说的一句话就是，我们有一个创始人，但有60个CEO。
One of her favorite lines was we have one founder and 60 CEOs.
当时就有这么一种心态，每个人都参与，每个人都做所有的工作，不管多小的事都做。
And there was this mentality that everybody contributed and everybody did every job no matter how small.
很多年后我们开了第一家实体店，当时人们连续四天都待在店里，连工程师都来帮忙布置店面。
When we opened up many years later, our first store, people were at the store for four days in a row, engineers, you know, helping set up a physical store.
这些工程师都是技术型的，平时大部分时间都泡在数字世界里。
And these were engineers who were really technical and mostly spent their time in a digital world.
最乱的部分是像市场和创意这样的领域，说实话，我们当时想重新定义这些，但我没做到，而且很难找到合适的人才，我也不知道优秀的标准是什么。
The part that was just the total mess was there were certain areas like marketing and creative that honestly, we were trying to reinvent and I didn't and it was hard to find the talent and I didn't know what great looked like.
所以我不知道一个优秀的创意总监或市场总监应该是什么样子的。
So I didn't know what a great head of design or great head of marketing looked like.
所以我要讲个故事，我们在2015年的时候雇了一个人。
And so I'll tell the story we hired at one point in 2015.
我们从卖T恤、背包，到直接去雇一个世界顶级的设计师。
We go from T shirts to backpacks to let's literally go hire one of the greatest designers in the world.
我们雇了这位叫Rebecca Bay的人，她之前在一家叫Kos的公司工作，后来还在Gap做了一年半的创意总监。
And we hired this one, Rebecca Bay, who came from a company called Kos and then was actually the creative director of Gap for a year and a half.
我们还在纽约为她专门建了一个办公室。
And we built an office for her in New York.
那时候我控制欲太强了，我觉得我快把她逼疯了。
And I was just such a micromanager at the time that I think I drove her so nuts.
她坚持了大概一年半，确实为设计打下了新的基础。
She made it she made it about a year and a half and she really created a new foundation of design.
现在我们还是好朋友，但那段时期确实因为过度管理而很艰难。
And we're good friends today, but it was definitely a tough period of over micromanaging.
过度管理是什么样的？
What did micromanaging look like?
嘿，为什么我们不这么做？
Hey, why aren't we doing this?
为什么我们不那么做？
Why aren't we doing that?
就是不停地问问题。
Just constant questions.
就是管理过程而不是管理结果，不让她这样优秀的人去做她的工作。
It's it's managing the process versus managing the outcome and not letting someone as great as her do her job.
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