5 - 创伤的转化 | 理解、疗愈与成长

欢迎收听《影响力播客》。我是埃迪·威尔逊，在此帮助你们看见他人所不能见，在他人失败之处创造机遇，推动你们在曾经的空无之地建立帝国。让我们携手踏上这段旅程，为世界带来改变。我们的生命永远无法摆脱创伤，生活中总会存在一些痛点。

Welcome to the Impact Podcast. I'm Eddie Wilson, here to help you visualize what others cannot see, create opportunities where others have failed, and push you to build empires where once there was empty space. Let's embark on this journey together and make a difference in this world. Our life is never going to be free of trauma. Our lives are always going to have some pain points in them.

事实上，弗雷德·罗杰斯说过，没有哪种正常生活能免于痛苦。正是在与问题的搏斗中，我们获得了成长的动力。然而，当问题或创伤在我们内心扎根时，它们会形成触发点——那些突然引发剧烈疼痛的开关。比如某种经历，有时甚至一个气味就能成为触发因素。

As a matter of fact, Fred Rogers said that there's no normal life that's free of pain. It's in the very wrestling with our problems that can be the impetus for growth. However, in our problems or in our traumas, as they seat, it gives us triggers. Like, there's trigger points where there's, like, massive pain. You know, you you, experience something, and sometimes a smell can be a trigger.

有时一个画面、一种味道都可能成为触发点。这些感官刺激会唤醒深埋在我们体内的创伤记忆。人们经历创伤后症状时，往往试图逃避这些触发因素——比如避开那首引发痛苦回忆的歌。

Sometimes a a sight can be a trigger. Sometimes a taste, whatever it is, those senses that then trigger those traumas that are seated within us. Oftentimes, the things that when people are going through, post traumatic symptoms, it's what we're trying to avoid. Like, just avoid the trigger. Don't listen to that song that causes that painful memory.

不去闻或吃任何可能唤醒记忆的东西。但我认为这反而有害，因为这些触发点恰恰标明了最关键的成长契机。当我们觉察到触发点时，应该识别它们，进而探索需要做什么来直面创伤。根据我的研究，创伤要么是成长的催化剂，要么是人生天花板或新身份形成的催化剂。实际上有五种方法能让创伤为我们所用。

Don't smell or eat whatever it is that causes it to come back. And I think it's actually doing us harm because inside of those triggers, it actually pinpoints the greatest opportunity for growth. I think that as we begin to see the triggers, we should or feel the triggers, we should identify the triggers and then find out what it is that we need to do in order to dive into those traumas. As I've researched trauma, what I know is that trauma is either a catalyst for growth or a catalyst for a ceiling or a new identity in our lives. And there's really five ways that we can facilitate trauma in our lives and and actually make it profitable for us.

寻找成长催化剂。第一种方法是教育。教育如同重塑我们的世界观，重新解读过往事件，重构未来图景。

Find the catalyst for growth. The first way is is is education. Education is like rethinking our world. It's rethinking our events. It's rethinking our future.

要知道，当你开始感受到某件事引发的情绪触发点时，你是否曾想过，通过教育你的思维、教育你的处境，实际上可以创造新的机会。因此，教育是第一步。第二步是所谓的情绪调节，管理我们的负面情绪，并反思成功与可能性。所以，与其总是让触发点引发回顾，不如通过情绪调节，重新调整那个触发点，使其有可能在未来创造机会，即可能性的一面。

You know, as you begin to feel the trigger of something that happened, could you ever imagine through educating your mind, educating your situation that that could actually create some new opportunity. So education is the first step. The second step is what's called emotional regulation, managing our negative emotions and reflecting on successes and possibilities. So instead of always allowing a trigger to create a backward look, it's through emotional regulation. It's retooling that trigger to allow it to potentially create the opportunity in the future, the possibility side.

最近我在读一本书，书中讲述了一位女士在海外失去了她的丈夫。她的丈夫是军人，她说每当听到某首歌时，总会让她想起失去的一切。但当她提到那首歌时，发现那是一首充满积极与希望的歌曲。所以，这是一种重新调整，通过情绪调节去思考未来可能实现的可能。

You know, I I was reading a book recently where, a lady had lost her husband overseas. He was in the military, and she said, you know, this song that she would hear would constantly bring back the thoughts of everything that she had lost. But as as she referenced what the song was, it was a song that was all about positivity and hope. And so it's it's a retooling. It's through emotional regulation thinking about what the future possibilities could actually be.

第三点是关于倾诉。对吧？倾诉是另一个步骤，是第三步。倾诉的核心是深入探讨触发点对你的影响，并与之对话。

Thirdly, it's about disclosure. Right? Disclosure is another step. It's the third step. And disclosure is all about actually diving into what the trigger does for you and speaking to it.

你是否有一个安全的地方或一个值得信赖的人可以倾诉这些事？我想这就是为什么如今心理治疗师如此受欢迎的原因——人们需要一个安全的空间，让他们知道无论谈论什么都是被允许的，且内容不会外泄。你是否有一个可以完全倾诉的安全空间？总结一下，这个过程可以通过三种方式实现：教育、情绪调节、倾诉。接下来是叙事构建。

Do you have a safe place or a safe person that you can speak these things to? You know, I think that that's why they're the therapists are so in demand today because people just need a safe space where they know that whatever they're speaking about, it's okay to speak about and it's not gonna go anywhere else. Do you have a safe place for full disclosure? So to go back, it's like it can be facilitated in three ways, education, emotional regulation, disclosure. Next would be narrative development.

重塑创伤的故事并从著名故事中汲取希望。这类似于思考他人的经历并创造新的叙事：这个人经历了和我相同的事，但他们通过那段经历找到了成功。最后一步是服务他人。

Shaping the story of trauma and deriving hope, from famous stories. And so it's like thinking about others and creating a new narrative. This person experienced the same thing that I experienced. However, they found success through that experience. And then lastly, it's service.

关键在于找到通过触发点最终能惠及他人的工作，对吧？比如当某件事触发你时，思考是否存在可以给予、捐赠或执行的善举，从而将这种触发转化为影响力的感受？因为归根结底，当我们能对他人生活产生影响力时，这种影响力会为我们的满足感和快乐增添最重的砝码。这些观点我都是从Tadeshi的书中读到的，他提出了五个核心要素。

It's finding work that ultimately benefits others through the trigger. Right? So, like, when something triggers you, it's like, is there an act of service that can be given or donated or executed on so that now I can turn this trigger into a feeling of impact? Because ultimately, impact is what creates the greatest weight on fulfillment and joy in our lives when we can create impact on others' lives. And so I read all of that, in a book by, by Tadeshi, and he gives us five, those five pieces.

我认为，虽然他的书本意是写给那些经历创伤或可能患有PTSD的人，教他们用这五种方式应对，但我发现我们中有些人遭遇的并非至亲离世这样的重大创伤，或战争中的战友牺牲。我们经历的可能是创业失败、恋情破裂等普通挫折，这些经历在潜意识里筑起了限制我们的天花板。触发点实际上会让我们本能退缩抗拒痛苦，而非直面伤痛思考应对之策。Tadeshi的著作让我们明白，有五种方法可以化触发点为成长契机，而非逃避的借口。

And I think that, you know, while I think his book was intended for for those who have gone through trauma or maybe even PTSD to begin to deal with it in those five ways, what I see is is that some of us don't have some massive trauma like the death of a loved one or, you know, we haven't been to war and we haven't experienced casualties, the loss of friends. But we have something simple like, you know, our first business failed or, a relationship we had fail or, you know, there's there's a lot of other just failures along the pathway that seats inside of us these ceilings in our subconscious. And then the triggers actually help us like it like, causes a wince, and then we we kind of resist the pain, and so we go the opposite way. As opposed to saying, okay, that hurts, And how am I gonna deal with it? And I feel like Tadeshi's book on on this really helps us understand there's really five ways that we can begin to deal with this and start stepping into allowing our triggers to become a trajectory for growth, not this place of retreat and avoidance.

说到这里，我首先想到的是

With that, first thing that comes to my

情感成长与创伤（特别是戏剧性创伤）之间的类比，就像健身增肌的过程。

mind is, the parallels you can draw between emotional growth with trauma, in regards to drama, trauma, and physical growth Mhmm. With like building muscles and working out.

没错。

Right.

有次背部受伤时，物理治疗师解释说：你的肌肉（而非骨骼）在受伤后会启动保护机制，通过紧缩来

I went to a physical therapist once when I had an injury in my back and she explained me what's happening is your back has sustained this injury. It's not in your bones, it's in your muscle. Mhmm. And what happens is it's trying to protect itself so it stops Mhmm. Clenches up

对。

Right.

蜷缩防御。但这种保护性痉挛反而会加重伤势。所以

Winces. And the worse that gets, the worse your your injury gets. And so

你需要

you need to

停下来运用这些康复原则

stop and apply these principles

当然。回溯来看。我认为这非常重要，因为就像你举的例子，实际上受影响的不是你的脊椎骨，而是肌肉。是那些保护它的一切。

Sure. To walk back. I I think it's it's so important too because it's like just like you gave the illustration of, it's not it wasn't, you know, the bone in your back that was actually affected. It was the muscle. It was everything that was protecting it.

对吧？它是紧绷的，是在抵抗。有趣的是，在人类状态中，当我们感受到触发点时，真正影响你的不是那首歌、那个气味或味道。它是一种保护机制。大脑会识别并认为，哦，我不想回到那个情境，因为那很痛苦。

Right? It was it was clenching up and it was, resisting it. What what is interesting is is in the in the human condition, as we feel triggers, you know, it's it's not the song or the smell or the taste that really is affecting you. It's a protectant. It's a it's a measurement where your brain identifies like, oh, I don't wanna step back into that because it's painful.

但问题在于它的影响。就像你的背部问题会蔓延到所有区域。对吧？它会爬上你的背，延伸到手臂，甚至影响到腿部。

But what it does is is the problem. It's like in your back. The problem then reaches into all areas. Right? Like, then it climbs up your back, goes down your arm, it goes into your leg.

实际上，它会对我们生活的其他方面产生连锁效应。对吧？所以生活中的创伤会在某些情绪被触发时产生影响，进而波及周围的一切。不仅仅是问题本身，还有与之相关的一切。比如一个人在生意上失败了，当他重新创业时，某些事情会触发过去的记忆。

What happens is is it actually has, an ancillary effect into other areas of our lives. Right? And so we have a trauma in our life that creates a trigger when some, you know, emotion is felt, and then it actually begins to affect everything around it. It's not just the the issue itself, it's everything touching the issue. You know, it's a it's a person who has, failed in business, And so therefore, they start again and they create a business, and then something triggers them to the past.

比如，哦不，我又要失去一切了。于是他们开始抗拒，也许我应该谨慎招聘，控制开支，或者保留更多资金，甚至在某些方面保守行事。突然间，这些问题围绕核心问题形成了一个巨大的圈子，影响远超问题本身。但关键还是要回溯根源。

Like, oh, no. I'm gonna lose everything again. And so then they resist, well, maybe I should be careful on who I hire, how much money I should spend, or maybe I should reserve so much capital, or maybe I should play it safe over here. And all of a sudden, it's like this big giant circle around the actual issue that affects so much more than the issue itself. But again, you go back.

就像，你如何一步步解决这个问题？其中一个重要因素是教育。你的生意为何失败？可能只是环境、经济形势、服务或产品的问题，与你的招聘或资金使用无关。但突然间，因为那件事，它成为了一个触发点，一个情感痛点，进而影响我们周围的一切，因为它们都与之相关。

It's like, how do you how do you work back through that? One of the big ones was education. Why did your business fail? It might have just been a product of of the environment, the economic situation around you, the service, the pro whatever it was. It probably had nothing to do with the people you hired, how you spent your money, you know, like but all of a sudden, it's because of that one thing, it creates a trigger, an emotional pinch point that then affects everything else around us because it's all tied to it.

看起来你列出了一系列具体问题需要处理，但它们都归结为一个更广泛的原则。

It seems like you rack up this list of specific things you're trying to deal with, but they all tie back to one broader principle.

没错。

Right.

有没有什么方法或经验可以帮助你识别真正的创伤是什么？

Is there a way you employ or you've seen or you've learned that helps you identify what the actual trauma is?

是的。我认为你必须不断追问为什么。为什么是这样？为什么是这样？为什么是这样？

Yeah. I think that, you have to keep asking why over and over and over again. Why is that? Why is that? Why is that?

因为就像我们大多数的创伤都深埋在六、七、八层之下。它与外在经历无关，而是关乎——为什么这个经历会发生？好吧，那么为什么这个经历会发生？

Because if it's like most of our traumas are six, seven, eight layers deep. It has nothing to do with like this outward, experience. It has to do with, like, but why is that experience happening? Okay. Well, why is that experience happening?

为什么这个经历会发生？它就像一直回溯到根源之处，我认为我们需要保持不满足感，直到理解问题的根源。在我自己的生活中，我认为其他人至少应该考虑，当触发点出现时，我们首先要识别它。对吧？比如当有事情困扰我或触发我时，我会想，到底是什么？

Why is that experience happening? It's like and it goes all the way back down to this root place where I think that we need to be dissatisfied until we understand what the root of the problem is. I think that, you know, in my own life, and I think that others should at least consider that when there is a trigger, we first have to identify it. Right? Like when there's something that bothers me or something that triggers, it's like, well, what is it?

那个触发点是什么，它与什么相关联？然后我认为我们必须保持不满足感，直到真正相信我们已经找到了问题的根源。对吧？所以我不认为有什么机制能直接引导你找到它。我认为这需要大量的自我探索。

Like, what is that trigger and what is it tying to? Then I think we have to be dissatisfied until we actually believe that we've gotten to the root of the problem. Right? And so I don't know that there's a mechanism per se that just helps you navigate right to it. I think that it's a lot of self searching.

我认为需要大量的反思，需要回顾我们的过去。有时候，甚至很多时候，你需要一个比你视野更开阔的人。对吧？比如，我生活中就有这样一个人，当我遇到这些痛点时，我会去找他。

I think it's a lot of reflection. I think it's a lot of looking back into our past. And sometimes, and maybe oftentimes, you need someone else who has a broader perspective than your own. Right? Like, there's somebody in my life that I go to when I hit one of these pinch points.

帮我处理它，帮我看到我看不到的东西。你生活中必须有一个诚实的人。每个人都值得拥有至少一个真正诚实的人，可以去找他们，他们不会情绪激动，而是会务实地说，嗯，你想过这个吗？这个怎么样？

Help me deal with it. Help me see what I'm not seeing. You gotta have somebody honest in your life. Everyone deserves at least one truly honest person in their life that they can go to that are not gonna flare up emotionally, are going to sit there pragmatically and just go, well, have you thought of this? What about this?

它与这个有关吗？你有没有想过，也许这边的事情实际上与那边的事情有关？对我来说，我生活中就有这样一个人，我会定期去找他。我们每月都有固定安排的通话。因为，再次强调，我们的创伤常常会阻碍我们实现生活中最终想要的东西。

Does it tie to this? Have you ever thought that maybe this over here actually ties to this over here? And, you know, for me, I have that person in my life that I go to on a regular basis. We have monthly, regularly scheduled calls. Because, again, our traumas can oftentimes cause resistance towards what we ultimately want in life.

与其拼命努力去达到我们想去的地方，很多时候我们更需要努力消除这些阻碍。人类的处境是如此奇妙。对吧？比如，人类的心智是如此坚韧和强大。我无法告诉你我有多少次遇到无法解决的问题，却在睡觉时解决了它，醒来时恍然大悟，这种情况在我身上发生过几十次。

And instead of working so hard on just trying to get where we wanna go, oftentimes we just have to work hard at at pulling off the resistance. The human condition is so amazing. Right? Like, the human mind is so resilient and powerful. I can't tell you how many times I've had a problem that I couldn't solve, that while I'm sleeping, I actually solve it in my sleep and wake up with the like, that's happened to me dozens of times.

这是因为我们的心智是如此坚韧和强大，你知道，它们完全未被开发。有时候，如果你想达到最终想去的地方，往往不是更努力追逐或做更多，而是需要退一步才能进两步。是什么真正阻止了我们到达那里？因为，你知道，人类的潜力远比我们今天所实现的要大得多。如果你相信这一点，那么你必须关注阻碍点而非轨迹点。

And it's because our minds are so resilient and powerful, you know, that they're completely untapped. And sometimes, it's more about if you wanna get to where you ultimately wanna go, oftentimes, it's not about just chasing harder or doing more. Oftentimes, it's about going backwards to go forwards. It's what is actually preventing us from getting there, you know, because, you know, our human capacity is so much greater than what we're achieving today. And if you believe that, then you must look at the resistant points versus the trajectory points.

那么如何识别、如何追溯那些最终与创伤相关的因素？你说要内省或找一个能帮助你反思的人。作为一个真正活跃在世界中、互联网上、音乐、播客、视频、流媒体服务中的人，我认为尤其是今天，一切都设计得让人关闭大脑、断开连接。嗯。

So asking how do we identify, how do you trace back those factors that ultimately tie to trauma? And, you said look within or have have a have a person there who can help you introspect. As someone who's like really in the world, really on the Internet, music, podcast, videos, streaming services, I think especially today, everything is designed to kind of turn your brain off Mhmm. Disconnect you.

没错。

Correct.

我认为内省、冥想、祈祷这些方式已经消失了。是的。但它们确实曾有其作用，而我们如今与之产生了巨大的脱节。

And I think introspection, meditation, prayer is just gone. Yeah. And it did serve a purpose and we have a big disconnection with that.

没错。确实存在严重的脱节。我最近读到，有人指出人类最大的恐惧之一就是独处以及与自己的思想独处，因为如今的一切都设计成让我们能逃避那些想法。如果你想要分心，每时每刻都有无数选择。

Yeah. Yeah. There's a massive disconnection with that. I was reading recently where, it was stated that one of the great human fears is being alone and alone with our thoughts, you know, because today, everything is built to allow us to push off those thoughts. If you want a distraction, it's there every second of every day.

回想五六十年前，那时几乎没什么让人分心的事物。我们没有手机、社交媒体这些东西。而现在，有太多干扰实际上把我们困在了那些创伤点里，对吧？

I think you go back fifty, sixty years ago, there were so few distractions. We didn't have cell phones and social media and all of that. And it is. It's it's there's so many distractions that actually I think hold us inside of those trauma points. Right?

除非刻意为之，否则我们永远不会静下心来真正面对它。而我们需要这样做——需要沉浸其中剖析它。因为我坚信，阻碍我们实现终极目标的往往不是能力，而是那些抗拒点。我们每个人都拥有超越现状的潜力。

We can't unless it's intentional, you never sit there and actually dwell in it. And when we need to, we need to dwell in that. We need to dissect it because, again, I really believe that most of what is preventing us from what we ultimately want is the resistant points, not our abilities. Right? We all we all have abilities that would allow us greater growth than we currently have.

真正达到自我巅峰的人少之又少。那么是什么在拖拽他们？就是那些抗拒点。我认为唯一的解决途径就是内省。就像你说的，这就是祈祷。

Very few people have actually reached the pinnacle of who they are. And so what is pulling them back? It's those resistant points. And it's like, I think the only way that you get there is introspection. And I think, like you said, it's it's it is prayer.

这就是冥想。是自我觉察与独处时光——这些在当今社会极其稀缺。我们通勤时在一起，工作时在一起，协作时也在一起。

It is meditation. It is self awareness and and self time, which we rarely get today. You know, we commute together. We work together. We, you know, collaborate together.

一切都被紧密连接着，以至于我们从未真正断开连接去体验那些东西。这必须要有意识地去实现。

It's like everything is is so connected, that we never really get to disconnect and experience those things. It has to be intentional.

找到那个你能信任、不会情绪失控的合适人选。嗯。

Finding the right person you can trust who you said isn't gonna emotionally flare up Mhmm.

那个你能

Who you

敞开心扉的人，我觉得对很多人来说并不容易。嗯。因为接受批评很难。

can be open with, I feel like that won't be easy for a lot of people Mhmm. Because it's hard to take criticism.

对。我

Right. I

认为那是你必须锻炼的肌肉。

think that is a muscle you have to work out.

这是

It's

就像愿意承认也许问题出在我身上。嗯。有什么经历或想法吗？

like being willing to maybe I am the problem. Mhmm. Any experiences or thoughts or like?

是的。我认为，达到一个你愿意并开放地允许他人对你坦诚相待的状态，我认为是第一步。对吧？你不能指望别人替你做到这一点，除非你自己有开放接纳的心态。所以我觉得最初的工作必须由你自己完成。

Yeah. I think that that's, I I think that getting to a place where you're willing and open to to allow someone else to be open and honest with you, I think is the first step. Right? Like, you can't just expect someone to do it for you without an open willing spirit to receive it. So I feel like the first work has to be done with you.

比如，你是否真的愿意接受他人对你生活和思想的审视与剖析，找出某些问题的根源。而且我认为不一定非得是治疗师。有时只需要一个比我们略进一步、不需要我们认可、也无法从我们身上获取什么的人。我觉得这些是关键标准。因为如果那个人对我们有所图，对话就会变得非常偏颇。

Like, are you truly willing to accept another's scoping and probing into your life and into your mind to dissect down what what is the root of some of this. And I don't think it has to be a therapist. I don't think it has to be sometimes it's just a person that's just a step beyond us that doesn't need our approval, that has nothing to gain from us. You know, like and I think that those are the big criteria points that have to be present. Because if that person has, anything to gain from us, all of a sudden it begins to, you know, becomes a very biased conversation.

如果那个人至少没有经历过我们之前的阶段，他们就很难向前看，但回头看总是容易得多。对吧？后见之明总是清晰的，所以给你的导师机会用清晰的视角看待你的行为。这些标准非常重要，因为它们能为你创造安全空间。

If the person isn't at least experienced from a position like past us, then they really have a hard time looking forward, but it's a whole lot easier to look back. Right? Like hindsight's twenty twenty, so give your mentor the chance to have twenty twenty vision on what you're doing. Right? And those criteria is so important because then it allows you the safe space.

但我认为首先我们有责任确定自己是否愿意开放。我认为这是一种完全的屈服——对控制欲、自我、傲慢的屈服，这些都回归到自我调节。五种能力之一就是情绪调节，我们必须做到这点才能接受真相。然后你需要找到一个不会被你的挫折或问题激怒的人。

But I think it's our responsibility first to determine if we're willing and open. And I think it's a submission. I think it's a full on submission of control, ego, arrogance, all of those things, which again, it goes back to self regulation. You know, one of the five was emotional regulation, and we have to be able to do that in order to receive truth. Then you have to find somebody who won't be flared up by, by your frustrations, who won't be flared up by your issues.

通常，这样的人是比你更有经验的过来人。他们具备一定成熟度，你的身份或能给他们的东西对他们没有吸引力。这很难。我觉得很多父母就在这里犯错。

And typically, that's an experienced person who's been there before you are. They they have a level of maturity. They have nothing to gain by who you are or what you can give them. And so it's difficult. I I I think this is where a lot of parents go wrong.

他们向子女寻求建议，甚至是已经上过大学的大孩子。虽然他们的建议很有价值，但他们的视角是向前看而非回头看。而回头看总是更好的观察角度。就像经历过人生的人拥有的视角，是任何东西都无法替代的。

They look to their children for advice, even their younger like, even like their older children, you know, like a child that's been through college or something like that. While their advice is very, very valid, they're coming from a perspective of looking forward versus looking in the rearview. And looking in the rearview is always a better vantage point. Right? Like, it's like someone who's looking backwards on a life that's already been that's that has been experienced, has a vantage point that cannot be exchanged for anything else.

是的。我认为这种体验的一部分在于我们需要在情感上全情投入。当我们从他人那里获得这种体验时，我觉得这是一种'传递善意'的方式。我们必须愿意将这份善意再传递给其他人。这就像一条由经验和成熟串联起来的长链，而我觉得我们有责任回望这条链。

Yeah. I think that, part of the experience is we we have to give ourselves to it emotionally. And when we receive it from someone else, I think it's the pay it forward method. I think we have to be willing to to then pay it back to someone else. You know, I think it's this long line of experience and maturity, and I feel like it's our responsibility then to look back.

你知道，作为一个四十多岁的人，要接受七八十岁、可能已处于职业生涯末期的人给出的强烈商业建议对我来说很难。但那些五十多岁、阅历比我稍丰富些的人，也许他们已经抚养了孩子，拥有出色的子女或美满的关系，他们可以回望我的生活进行对比。而对于二三十岁刚踏入职场、初尝成功或刚开始养育子女的年轻人来说，我四十多岁的视角对他们很有价值。就像我总觉得在我和儿子们之间，应该有个中间人能让我依靠。曾经有个年轻人为我工作了好几年。

You know, it's tough for me in my forties to take, you know, super strong business advice from somebody in their seventies or eighties that are maybe in the twilight of their career, but one step ahead of me, someone in their fifties that have experienced maybe a little bit more than I have, or maybe they've raised their children, they've got great children, or they've got a great, you know, relationship or whatever, can then look back on, you know, my life and there's a comparison there. For me in my forties, like somebody in their late twenties or early thirties, they're just coming into business or, you know, just experiencing their first level of success or maybe they're just starting to have children. You know, it's like my vantage point is a good vantage point for them. It's like I always felt like between me and my sons, there should be someone about midway point that I could rely on. There was a young man, who worked for me for quite a few years.

我的一个儿子非常崇拜他。所以我常让他扮演这个角色，比如问'你愿意花点时间陪我儿子，帮他开拓视野吗？'然后我会教导儿子说'这个年轻人很靠谱，他很精明，可能就是你未来想成为的样子'。

My one of my sons really looked up to him. And so I would use him in that role, like, hey, would you be willing to just spend a little bit of time with my son and, you know, kinda help him get perspective? And then I would coach my son and like, this young guy's got it together. He's sharp. He's probably what you want to be in life.

如果你愿意接受他的观点会怎样？所以我总是尝试为孩子们培养这种关系，因为我觉得自己可能因为年龄差距太大而无法产生同等影响力，但那些与他们年龄相仿或心智更接近的人却能帮上忙。完全正确。

What if you gave yourself to his opinions? Right? And so like, always try to even cultivate it for my own kids because I felt like for me, may be too far removed to have the same impact, you know, on them that someone that's a little closer to their age or more, you know, their maturity level could help with. Totally.

就像酷叔叔的角色。

It's the cool uncle.

没错。绝对是这样。

Yeah. It's like Absolutely.

父母说一件事时你会抵触，但酷叔叔说同样的话你就会接受

Your parents will tell you one thing, cool uncle will say the same thing, you're like, yeah, that's

说得太对了，正是如此。

that's right. Exactly right.

现在我已经列出了所有触发点。接下来该怎么办？你刚才提到那五个方法，我们能逐一探讨下吗？

Now that I've listed out my million triggers Mhmm. It's like, what do I do now? Right. And you you gave us those five things. Can we kind of dive into each of those five?

当然可以。

Sure.

确实如此。我认为，当我审视那五个方面时，第一个是教育——它关乎重新认识自我、世界与未来。有时我觉得，听他讲述的内容后，某种程度上我的生活顺序似乎有些错位。

Yeah. For sure. I think, you know, as I as I look at those five, the first one is, education. It's, rethinking ourselves, our world, our future. And sometimes I feel like these like, I I I listened to what he wrote and I feel like to some degree in my own life, it's a little out of order.

对吧？感觉他的顺序是教育、情绪调节，然后才是自我揭露。而我觉得必须先从揭露开始——我得先明确困扰我的究竟是什么。比如这件事真的让我很烦恼。

Right? Like, feel like, you know, his his was education, emotional regulation, then he went to disclosure. I feel like until I go from disclosure, it's like I feel like I have to identify what it is. Right? Like this thing really bothers me.

每次发生这种情况，都会触发我的情绪反应。我觉得必须说出来、表达清楚。之后教育环节才会介入。对我来说，这时候才更侧重教育层面。

Every time this happens, it sets off this emotional response in me. And I feel like I have to like speak it, say it, disclose it. Then I feel like education then steps in. Right? Then for me, it's more about education.

就像：好吧，问题本质是什么？根源在哪里？接着才是重塑阶段。这时候视角转换就显得尤为重要。

It's like, okay, what is it? What's causing it? Or it's then then it's the reshaping. Right? Like, you know, and then that's where perspective is so great.

比如我常交流的那位朋友。我会说'这事有时真让我困扰，引发这些感受和想法'。从我的视角解释原因后，他就会开始帮我重塑这个认知教育过程。

This is, you know, the guy that I speak to on a regular basis. I'll say, hey, this really bothers me sometime. It causes these feelings and thoughts and emotions. And from my perspective, this is why. And then I feel like what he does is then he starts helping reshape the educational process.

因为当我真正思考本质时，重塑认知的关键在于：多数人伤害他人并非蓄意，而是源于他们自身的情感缺失或生活困境。很少有人会故意伤害别人。

Right? Because then when I actually start thinking about what it really is, you know, it's like one of the big reshaping concepts or ideas is that most people that hurt people do not do it intentionally to hurt someone. They're actually doing it as a as an emotional response or lack in their own lives. Right? Like, most people don't intentionally hurt people.

实质是他们自己生活出了问题，未处理的情绪像涟漪般波及他人。当你开始个体化看待他人，意识到他们的伤痛既折磨自己也影响别人时，就能重新教育自己：问题不在我身上，而是源于对方的缺陷。这正是我们常讨论的教育过程核心。

What they do is is there's something wrong in their own life, and the byproduct of something not being dealt with their life ends up, you know, cascading over into someone else. And when you can start looking at people individually or individualized, it's like and realize like their hurts caused them pain and sometimes their hurts caused me pain, then it what it does is it doesn't like, then it helps me reeducate myself to say, well, there wasn't something wrong with me that caused this problem. There was something wrong with them that caused this problem. Right? And and I think that that's a lot of a lot of what we talk about is like, what is the educational process?

究竟是怎么回事？是我做错什么才陷入这种处境吗？责任在我还是他人？是我的错误选择还是别人的过失？

Like, what is it? Did I do something wrong and that's why I'm in this position? Was it me or was it someone else? Right? Did I make a bad choice or did someone else make a bad choice?

接着就进入情绪调节阶段——管理负面情绪，反思成功经验与可能性。通过自我教育后，才能真正调控相关情绪。

Right? Then I think it goes into emotional regulation. You know, emotional regulation, is managing our negative emotions and reflecting on the successes and possibilities. Right? So once I educate myself, then I can actually, like, regulate the emotions around that.

如果对方并非故意伤害我，那么当我允许他们承担过错而自己无需负责时，会有什么转机？若过错确实在我，又能改变什么？特别是对于那些身处绝境的人——被利用并非他们的过错。

Well, if if that person didn't intentionally hurt me, then what's possible if I just allow them to be in a position of wrong, but I wasn't? Well, if I was in a position of wrong, what could I have done to change it? Well, probably nothing, especially, you know, if some people are in very hopeless situations. It wasn't their fault. They were taken advantage of.

他们受伤了。然后你到达一个可以处理这些情绪的地方。这样你才能开始调节情绪。对吧？就像，好吧，这不是我的错。

They were hurt. And then you get to a place where you can process. And so then then you can begin to emotionally regulate. Right? Like, okay, it's not me.

我没有错。我没有做错任何事。造成这一切的并非我的问题。然后我认为这就进入了他所说的叙事发展阶段。叙事发展让我能够重新书写故事，开始告诉自己真实的故事是怎样的。

I I'm not at fault. I didn't do anything wrong. There's nothing wrong with me that caused this. Then I think it steps into what he calls narrative development. Narrative development then, what it allows me to do, is then to rewrite the story, you know, to begin to, tell myself what the story actually is, you know.

当你重构正确的叙事时，它让你能够塑造创伤的故事，让创伤不再给你的生活带来负面影响，而是让你在生命中创造希望。我经常谈到失去妹妹的经历，以及母亲如何通过感恩帮我面对。母亲所做的就是重塑我的叙事——她让我看到，如果我能聚焦于妹妹与我生命中那些深刻影响我的美好时刻，我的叙事就不再是关于失去，而是关于获得。

And when you when you recreate the right narrative, you know, it it allows you to shape the story of trauma, and then instead of trauma, bringing a negative effect on your life, it allows you to actually then create hope in your life. Right? I often talk talk about the loss of my sister, and how my mother helped me deal with it with gratitude. What my mom was doing was she was reshaping my narrative. You know, she was helping me see that if I could find the amazing moments in my sister and I's life that, that really impacted me in a positive way, and I could dwell there, then my narrative wasn't it's all about what I lost, but it was about what I gained.

我认为如果以正确方式处理创伤，你终将到达那个境界——虽然这非常困难。但任何创伤都可能为生活带来积极影响。我知道这个说法很敏感，因为不仅指失去至亲，还包括遭受可怕伤害的人们。我曾在中东遇见一位女性，她因信仰和言行不被周围人接受而被泼酸毁容。

And I feel like if you deal with traumas in the proper way, you can get to the place where and this is very difficult. But I think any trauma can bring some positive in our life. You know, that that's a very sensitive statement because I realize that what I'm saying isn't just the loss of a loved one. It's people that have been affected in horrific ways. So I'm gonna be very sensitive with that statement, but I but I mean that statement because I have seen out of some of the greatest people on the planet I I saw a lady in The Middle East who her face was burned with acid because she didn't believe or act the way that the people surrounding her believed that she should think or act.

我看着她发表震撼人心的演讲。她面目全非，却讲述着自己相信因这段创伤而比从前更好。这让我坚信任何创伤——无论多可怕——都能转化为积极力量。就像我们Aspire舞台上的尼克，他只有单臂单指，却冲浪、滑板、赛车，他会告诉你正是创伤给了他影响他人的平台。

And I watched her give one of the most amazing speeches. Her face was so disfigured, and she began to tell how she believed that she was a better person today for the trauma that she went through than she was before the trauma. And that's where I I you know, it's like I think that any trauma, no matter how horrific it is, can be shaped into something positive. You know, you think about the people that have been on our Aspire stage, that, you know, the one I think about is Nick who, has one arm, no legs, no other limb, one finger on his one arm, and the guy surfs and skateboards and races cars, and he's resilient. And he'll tell you, that he believes that that trauma in his life is what's now given him a platform to make such massive impact for others.

我怀着敬畏说这些话，但深信不疑。最后是服务——我的人生重点：如果在创伤中找到恩典、希望与感恩，并发现积极意义，你就能转身去帮助有相同遭遇的人。服务与你经历相似创伤的人时，那种喜悦与满足无可比拟。

So I say it with sensitivity, but I believe it wholeheartedly. And then lastly, it's service, which is, you know, my my big, focus in life, which is if if in your traumas, you can find grace and hope and gratitude and get to a place where you can find the the benefit, the the positive, that then you can turn around with intent to others that have the same exact issue and begin to serve. And in serving somebody with the same trauma you've gone through, there is a joy and a fulfillment that cannot be matched.

我有个问题。你提到过这点——说所有创伤都可能带来好处是个敏感话题。

I have a question. I know you touched on it. It's a sensitive part of, stating that all trauma could potentially bring good.

嗯。

Mhmm.

关键是要避免比较。嗯。因为每个人的创伤都不同。

I think the key in that is to to not compare Mhmm. Because trauma is different for everyone.

对。

Right.

这并不是要评判那些可能尚未发现美好的人。嗯。但这是可能的。我认为这是一种希望的叙事，这是一种更好的看待方式。

And it's not to and then, like, not to judge people who may not have found the good yet Mhmm. But it is possible. And that's a narrative of hope, I think that's a better way to look at it.

我同意。我认为，任何经历过创伤的人，我们都必须认识到没有两种创伤是相同的。我在世界观中的体验，与邻居可能完全相同的情境下，我的经历却截然不同。就像兄弟姐妹面对父母离婚，一个可能适应得更好，另一个则挣扎得更厉害。

I agree. I think that, you know, someone who's gone through trauma of any kind, we all have to recognize that no trauma is the same. And how I experience it in my worldview, my experience is radically different than, you know, situationally, maybe the exact same as my neighbor, but my experience of it is completely different. You know, you think about, like, siblings who their parents go through some issue, like divorce. One comes out better and one comes out struggling worse.

正是我们对创伤的独特体验使其与众不同。虽然有些人可能找到了乌云背后的幸福线，在经历中发现了希望和机遇，但你不能回头对别人说‘你也应该做到’。每个人的旅程都如此独特，我们必须给予他们空间、宽容和机会，让他们以极大的善意在自己经历的事物中发现承诺、机遇和希望。要知道，每个人都在受伤，世上每个人都经历过某些事。

It's it's it's in our experience of that trauma that makes it unique. And so while some people may have found the silver lining, they may have found the hope and the opportunity in whatever they've gone through, you can't look back at someone else and say, well, you should too. Right? Like, everybody's own unique journey is so unique to them that we have to allow people the space and the grace and the opportunity to find that promise, that opportunity, that hope in whatever they've gone through with extreme grace. You know, like, people are hurting, and every person in the world has gone through something.

但归根结底，我认为痛苦、冲突和创伤是人类成长最强大的催化剂。因此我们必须允许人们去经历——经历他们自己的人类体验，而非期待他们复制我的体验。当他人受伤时，我们都想说正确的话，想提供能解决所有问题、让他们立刻好受的灵丹妙药。因为人类的苦难不仅折磨当事人，旁观者也因无力感而痛苦——尤其是看着孩子或所爱之人受苦时，你恨不能替代他们承受。

But again, it goes back to I think that pain, conflict, trauma is the greatest catalyst for growth in the human experience. And so we have to allow people to do that, to do just that, have a human experience, not expect them to have my human experience, but their human experience. We all we all wanna say the right thing when someone else is hurting, and we want to, you know, like deliver like this silver bullet that solves all problems and makes them feel a million times better. Because human suffering, while the person's suffering, it's difficult for, it's also difficult for every other person because there's a helplessness in watching someone suffer. You can't go through it, and especially if it's a child or someone that, you know, you love to watch them suffer.

你只想替他们承担痛苦，只想将自己置身其中。但有时我们越是想这样，越容易说错话、用错表达方式。我曾失去姐姐和弟弟，经历过许多失去。站在弟弟葬礼的棺木前，有人对我说‘他现在解脱了’——因为他长期受疾病折磨。他们本意是想说‘他不再痛苦了，他在更好的地方’，但...

All you wanna do is take it away from them. All you wanna do is put yourself in there. But sometimes in trying to put ourselves in there, we say the wrong things, we come up with the wrong expression. And having lost, both a sister and a brother and, had quite a bit of loss in my life, standing at the casket of my brother's funeral, someone, said to me because he had been struggling with health, you know, he's better off now. And it's just like the and and all they wanted to do is say like, he's not suffering, he's in a good place, You know?

但老兄，那种接近伤害的感觉。它就像是在伤口上撒盐，让痛苦更深。他们并非有意，他们只是想给你某种安慰。

But man, it's like that close to hurt. It's just like it it just digs the it digs the pain deeper. And they don't mean it. They don't intentionally. They're wanting to give you some sort of solace.

但很多时候，我们只需要给予人们空间和宽容。对吧？就像，我们得给予他们可能本不配得的东西。也许你经历过更严重的创伤，但归根结底，我们要找到方式赠予他们这份礼物——存在于他们的生活中，允许他们拥有所需的空间去经历任何悲伤过程或痛苦，并给予全力支持。我认为，在挣扎时别人对我说过最棒的话就是：我支持你，我在这里陪你，我爱你。

But oftentimes, we just have to give people space and grace. Right? Like, we have to we have to give them something that maybe they don't even deserve. Maybe maybe maybe you have gone through an even worse trauma or traumatic situation, but in the end, it's like we gotta find a way to give them the that gift to to be present in their lives, be allowing of the space that they need to go through whatever grieving process or whatever hurting they need to go through with full support, you know? It's like, I think the best thing that someone has ever said to me, in that place of struggle is I support you, I'm here for you, I love you.

这些话才能创造那样的空间，明白吗？经历创伤的人，才是需要为创伤赋予意义的人。你不能替他们的伤痛定义意义，不能插嘴说‘让我告诉你这其实...’，他们必须自己领悟。对吧？

Like, those are words that that allow that space, you know? The person that is experienced and experiencing the trauma, they're the ones that have to ascribe meaning to it. You can't ascribe meaning to their hurt. You can't step in and go, let me tell you how this, they have to come to that. Right?

你必须给予他们空间和支持去完成这个过程。我常发现，试图直接教导我的方式从来无效，但通过第三方观察教训却总是奏效。比如‘我看到那边有人经历了那个，或许能成为我的借鉴’。所以很多时候你需要抽身，因为第一人称的说教往往不被接受。

And you have to give them the space and the support to do it. You know, I oftentimes find that someone trying to teach me a lesson, never works. But experiencing a lesson third party always seems to work. Like, oh, I watched them go through that over there and maybe that could be my experience. So oftentimes, you have to remove yourself from it because first person teaching oftentimes is not well received.

知道吗？但递给某人一本书——我人生中遭遇另一个疯狂困境时，有人只说：‘嘿，我认识经历过同样事情的人/读过相关著作，突然想到你。不知道是否对你有用，但给你吧’。那本书在那一刻，对我而言就是生命之光。

You know? But giving someone a book, you know, I went through a crazy another crazy situation in my life and someone just said, hey, I I know somebody else that went through this same situation or read a wrote a book about it. I just thought of you. I thought maybe I don't know if it's good or not, but here, I thought just thought of you and maybe it'll help. That that book in that moment, was it was like life to me.

我记得在飞机上读到它时，努力保持镇定，因为就像，好吧。因为我是从第三方的角度学习这个教训的，明白吗？实际上，通过间接方式，给我这本书的人帮助我领悟了这个教训。但如果他们直接把书中的道理告诉我，我可能会拒绝接受。

I remember reading it on a plane and just like trying to keep it together because it's like, okay. Because I was learning the lesson from a third party perspective, you know? It wasn't and by by proxy, the person who gave it to me actually helped teach me the lesson. But had they actually said the lesson in the book to me, I probably would have rejected it.

这就是第三方学习吗？这是叙事发展的一部分吗？

Is that learning third party? Is that part of narrative development?

我认为这完全是叙事发展，因为在叙事发展中，我们围绕'为什么'重构故事，而不是'如何'。我们知道自己如何受伤，如何经历创伤，但关键在于'为什么'。明白吗？就像，更大的图景是什么？

I think that's a 100% narrative development because in narrative development, recreating the story around the why, you know, not the how. We we know how we got hurt. We know how we experienced trauma, but the why. Right? Like, what's the bigger picture?

更高的目的是什么？这里真正的意义和机会是什么？我觉得有时候，通过第三方来协助理解这些是很有帮助的。你

What's the greater purpose? What's the what's the real meaning and opportunity here? I think sometimes, you know, assisting in that from a third party is is helpful. You

知道吗？你熟悉布琳·布朗吗？

know? Are you familiar with Brene Brown?

嗯。

Mhmm.

对。她有一本书——我记不清是哪本了——她谈到'我对自己讲述的故事'。嗯。这句话深深触动了我，因为我确实很擅长编故事。

Yeah. One of her I can't remember which one, but she talks about the the story I'm telling myself. Mhmm. And that struck so deep in Yeah. Inside me because I can tell really good stories.

是啊。不幸的是，我发现自己对自己编的故事最糟糕。对。所以对我来说，叙事发展最重要的部分就是

Yeah. And unfortunately, I caught myself doing it to myself the worst. Yeah. And so that that for me is the most important part of narrative development is like

噢，确实。

Oh, yeah.

好吧。如果他们只是状态不佳，并不是针对个人呢？而且

Okay. What if they are just having an off day and it's not personal and

对。没错。如果我们在工作中进行冲突解决时，采用布芮尼·布朗的部分理念，将‘我认为你在做什么’的表达转变为‘这是我给自己讲的故事，可能并不准确’的方式。

Right. Yeah. What if, when we do conflict resolution at work, we use a portion of Brene Brown's piece, in our conflict resolution. And instead of saying, this is what I think you're doing, you say you change that in the experience and you say, this is the story I'm telling myself. I may not be accurate.

这样就为解决问题留出了空间，对吧？是的。这是一种绝妙的沟通方式，无论是与自己还是与他人。

And then it gives you the space, right, to allow for the resolution to happen. Yeah. It's it's a brilliant way to communicate Yeah. Both with yourself and with others.

确实。在叙事构建中，可以寻找第三方案例。嗯。基督就是承受苦难的终极典范。嗯。

True. And then in narrative development, look for those third party examples. Mhmm. The ultimate example of suffering is Christ. Mhmm.

我认为这就是为什么他能成为普世形象。每个人都能共鸣——他的叙事真实经历了我们所有人的苦难。是的。所以没有比他更合适的...

I think that's why it's a universal figure. Everyone can like the narrative is he literally went through what we all went through. Yeah. So who better to help

没错。

Yeah.

...在那一刻帮助你的人选了？

Help you in that moment?

是的。从信仰角度，我认为耶稣基督实际上是这个核心。对吧？就像圣经说的‘无罪的他为我们成为罪’，这就是圣经的叙事。

Yeah. I I think from a faith perspective, I think Jesus Christ is actually, to me, the central figure in that. Right? Because, you know, even the Bible talks about, like, he who had no sin became sin for us. That's the Bible narrative.

这意味着他本不必受苦，却选择受苦来成全你我。我认为这是完全不同层次的境界。我们受苦往往是他人的错误选择或自身行为的副产品。

And what it what he's saying is is like, he didn't have to suffer. He chose to suffer, and he chose to suffer to better you and I. And I think that's a whole different level. Right? We suffer, and oftentimes we suffer as a byproduct of someone's poor choices, someone else or our own.

而自愿为他人牺牲受苦的境界，正是圣经对爱的定义——不求回报地为他人献上终极牺牲。这是更深刻的维度。在五大要素中，我认为最重要的是服务。

To get to a place where you're willing to sacrifice and suffer for someone someone else, it's also the biblical narrative of what love is. Right? The ultimate sacrifice, sacrificing on the on behalf of another without an expectation in return. That is a that's a whole deeper level. I do believe that the most important out of the five is service.

因为有时我们只是肤浅地试图治愈创伤：编造新叙事、重构思想感受、制造不同的触发体验。但那些触发点恰恰指明了问题根源所在。

And the reason is is because I think sometimes we superficially try to solve our traumas. We'll try to give ourselves a different narrative. We'll try to reengineer our thoughts, our feelings, our emotions. We try to create different experiences with those triggers. That trigger pinpoints exactly where the issue is.

每次你被触发时，那正是潜在成长的契机。但在此之前需要经历五个阶段——最终阶段是：你是否真正愿意去帮助经历过同样困境的人？我认为在此之前，这种成长可能流于表面而不真实。真正的考验在于，这个触发点是否正为成长铺设轨迹，取决于我们是否愿意服务处于相同境遇的他人。因为通过帮助同类处境的人，必然会产生两种结果之一。

Every time you're triggered, that's the issue for potential growth. However, until you get to five, which is am I actually willing to serve someone else who's gone through the same thing? I think that it has the potential of being superficial and not real. I think the ultimate test of whether that trigger is now creating, you know, trajectory for growth is whether or not we're willing to serve someone else that's in the same situation. Because in serving someone else in the same situation, it's gonna do one of two things.

其一，它会重新激活那个触发点。明白吗？就像腰痛复发、肌肉紧绷、情绪反应重现那样。或者其二，在帮助过程中获得情绪释放，并在当下找到喜悦与满足感。如果你能怀着喜悦与满足去帮助经历完全相同（或高度相似）困境的人，此刻你便知道——自己正开始掌控那个曾禁锢你的创伤。

Number one, it's going to bring back the trigger. Right? Like it's gonna be like, it's the back pain, it's the clenching, it's the emotional response. Or there's emotional release and there's now joy and fulfillment found in the moment. If you can serve someone else that's gone through the exact same issue you've been through, or at least in close proximity to it, and do it while feeling joy and fulfillment, now you know you're beginning to master the trauma that has before held you in captive.

非常感谢您参与本期播客并收听今天的节目。期待与您进一步交流，您可以通过任何社交媒体平台搜索Eddie Wilson Official账号与我联系。

Thanks so much for being a part of the podcast and for listening today. Love to connect with you further, and you can connect with me on social media at Eddie Wilson Official on any of the social media channels.