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本集简介
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Hello and welcome everyone.
我是帕特里克·奥肖内西，这里是《像最优秀的人一样投资》。
I'm Patrick O'Shaughnessy, and this is Invest Like The Best.
这档节目将带你深入探索市场、观点、故事和策略，帮你更好地分配时间和资金。
This show is an open ended exploration of markets, ideas, stories, and strategies that will help you better invest both your time and your money.
如果你喜欢这些对话，想了解更多，不妨关注我们的季刊《Colossus》，里面会有对商业和投资领域关键人物的深度专访。
If you enjoy these conversations and wanna go deeper, check out Colossus, our quarterly publication with in-depth profiles of the people shaping business and investing.
你可以在 colossus.com 找到《Colossus》以及我们所有的播客内容。
You can find Colossus along with all of our podcasts at colossus.com.
帕特里克·奥肖内西是 Positive Sum 公司的首席执行官。
Patrick O'Shaughnessy is the CEO of Positive Sum.
帕特里克和所有嘉宾表达的观点均为个人意见，不代表 Positive Sum 的立场。
All opinions expressed by Patrick and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Positive Sum.
本播客仅供信息参考，不应作为投资决策的依据。
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.
Positive Sum 的客户可能持有本播客中讨论的证券。
Clients of Positive Sum may maintain positions in the securities discussed in this podcast.
如需了解更多信息，请访问 psum.vc。
To learn more, visit psum.vc.
今天，我的嘉宾是金约翰。
Today, my guest is John Kim.
约翰是全球最顶尖、最活跃的融资专家之一。
John is one of the world's top and most prolific fundraisers.
在通用资本任职期间，他帮助筹集了数十亿美元，将通用资本打造成全球最大的风险投资公司之一。
Over his career at General Catalyst, he helped raise billions of dollars and turned GC into one of the largest venture firms in the world.
如今，他是 Lila Sciences 的董事长兼企业发展的总裁，这家公司正在打造科学领域的超级智能，已筹集超过五亿美元。约翰也是《融资之道》一书的作者。
Today, he's chairman and president of corporate development at Lila Sciences, a company building scientific superintelligence, which has raised over $500,000,000 John is also the author of The Tao of Fundraising.
这场对话实际上是一份指南，教你如何向最顶尖的融资高手学习筹款。
This conversation is really a guide on how to raise money from someone who has done it at the highest level.
我们会探讨为什么说服力等于欲望减去恐惧，信念与信任的区别，融资的基本法则，以及如何凝聚共识，推动巨额资本的流动。
We talk about why persuasion equals desire minus fear, the difference between belief and trust, the laws of fundraising, and how to build consensus that moves huge pools of capital.
请欣赏我与约翰·金的对话。
Please enjoy my conversation with John Kim.
我们刚才聊的时候，你说如果要给这本书改个名字，你心里已经有想法了。
We were chatting before, and you said if you were to rename your book, you had an idea what you'd call it.
那你打算改叫什么名字？
How would you rename it?
我在写《融资的道》这本书的时候，就想把一些哲学性的想法传递出去，因为融资不仅仅是说服的技巧。
As I wrote the book, The Tao of Fundraising, I had this idea that I wanted to put something philosophical out in the world because fundraising isn't just a idea of persuasion.
它其实是一种生活方式——始终以对方为中心去交流，这才是真正的处世之道。
It's actually a way of life that the actual interacting with people through the lens of them as the center of your conversation is a way of life.
这种生活方式需要一种责任感。
And that way of life requires a certain level of responsibility.
当你越来越懂人性，懂别人怎么想、怎么反应，明白他们会对我说什么、对你做什么，你就可以用这种能力来满足私欲，也可以用来做好事。
When you start to get good at understanding how people work and how people react and how they will react to me or to you or to other personas, you can actually use that for your own selfish needs or you can use it for good.
所以我给它取名叫《融资的道》。
So I called The Tao of Fundraising.
但说到底，我不确定真有几个人在乎这种理念。
But in the end, I don't know how many people actually care about that philosophy.
大多数人真正想知道的，是怎么把钱弄到手。
What most people want to know is how do you get money?
我想我可能会干脆改名叫《信任驱动的资金流动》，因为整本书讲的其实就是这个。
I think I probably would have just renamed it, Money Moves at the Speed of Trust because the entire book really is about that.
钱是怎么在某些地方聚集，被人攥着，资源又是怎么被握在手里的。
How money pools in areas and people hold onto it and resources.
我们可以用很多话去解释，到底是什么让人愿意朝某个方向行动，而这恰恰是关键——你要明确说：我希望钱往这个方向流，而不是那个方向。
And we can put a lot of words around what actually motivates people to move in a direction And that's really important in making sure that you say, Hey, I want the money to move in this direction, not that direction.
真正的诀窍在于，大多数人其实都很擅长吸引注意力，让人的兴趣朝某个方向转动。
The real trick is that most people know how to get people's attention and get interest moving in the direction.
但最后那一步——建立信任，才是真正的钥匙。
That last unlock of trust actually is the magic key.
太多人特别擅长用品牌或逻辑，把对方说服到点头同意。
So many people do such a good job of using logos or logic to actually get somebody to a yes.
但他们还是拒绝了，因为信念和信任是两回事。
And they still say no because it's the difference between belief and trust.
我书里没写这一点，真希望它能成为第一章。
I didn't write this in my book and I wish it was the first chapter.
信念就是，我相信你。
Belief is like, I believe you.
对，你讲的有道理。
Yes, what you're saying makes sense.
我相信你。
I believe you.
信任则完全不同。
Trust is very different.
我对它没信心。
I don't have faith in it.
我不信任它。
I don't trust it.
人们总会问，你怎么可能相信一件事，却不信任它呢？
And people say, Well, how can you believe something and not trust it?
你有没有跳过伞？
Have you ever gone skydiving?
或者那些特别害怕坐飞机的人？
Or people who are terribly afraid of flying?
你相信飞行员是合格的吗？
Do you believe that the pilot is qualified?
当然相信。
Of course you do.
而信任呢，你能让人相信，但可惜的是，人们往往达不到最后一步——让他们真正相信这件事能成。
And so trust, you can get people and people unfortunately just don't get to that last piece where they get people to believe that this is going to work.
他们觉得这事儿没错。
They believe it is the right thing.
但他们还是不会完全信任你会真正兑现他们的期待，这事儿太复杂了。
They'll still trust that you're gonna actually fulfill what they need, and it's very complicated.
我想达到一种状态，就是我有个想法，想做点什么。
I wanna go to the situation where I'm a person, I have an idea, something I wanna do.
这需要一些资金或者资源。
It requires capital or resources of some kind.
人们应该理解你所经历的这种起步阶段，以及为什么大多数人会在这里卡住。
What people should understand about that starting state that you've learned and where people then tend to fall down.
我觉得你我以前聊过一个有意思的观点：当然，好点子很重要，好的产品、你要打造或销售的东西都很关键，但人们可能低估了资金在推动这些事情落地时的作用。
Like, I think one of the interesting messages that you and I have talked about before is, of course, a good idea is important, a good product, the thing you're trying to build or sell or or what have you, but that people maybe underestimate the role that capital can play in making that thing happen.
所以，你深入研究并实践过的这项技能，价值简直无法估量，但除了想法之外，没人真正知道该怎么去操作。
And therefore, this skill that you've learned a lot about and done a lot of is just unbelievably valuable, but no one really knows how to do it beyond the idea.
一开始，先帮我们理清一下：想法和资金的结合，以及它们之间关系的重要性。
At the very beginning, orient us around that combination of idea plus capital and the importance of the relationship.
首先，你得看看，谁是那些信任你的人？
First, you have to look and say, okay, who are the people who trust you?
这就是为什么人们管它叫亲友圈。
This is why they call it friends and family.
什么是朋友和家人？
What is friends and family?
高度信任。
High trust.
高度信任。
High trust.
我觉得并不是所有朋友和家人都会给你钱，只是他们不怕亏钱。
I don't think it's totally true that friends and family are people who will give you money, they're not afraid to lose it.
实际上，他们对亏损的承受能力可能比机构还差。
Their tolerance for loss actually may be much, much worse than an institution.
那种‘去找朋友和家人吧，他们会当慈善捐钱给你’的说法，其实是个都市传说。
That's I think kind of a urban myth that, oh, go to friends and family because they'll give you the money as charity.
我觉得最贵的钱，就是跟朋友借的，因为你根本还不起。
I think the most expensive money is borrowing money from your friends because you don't give the money back.
你们的友谊再也回不去了，但他们信任你，也希望你能成功。
Your friendship is not the same anymore, but they trust you and they want to see you do well.
他们对你的成功有多渴望，就有多少害怕亏钱，这正是我们说的说服力——他们对亏钱的担心，远不如希望你成功的愿望强烈。
And their desire minus fear, which is we talk about persuasion, their fear of losing money is subordinate to their desire for you to do well.
他们明白，你要想成功，就得有资源，而这些资源你目前还没有。
And they know that in order for you to do well, you need resources you don't have.
所以作为个人，你第一步得弄清楚谁真正信任你。
So as an individual, first, need to find out who trusts you.
哪些人对你的成功抱有的期待，超过了他们对风险的担忧？
Who are the people who desire your success more than they fear?
或者，他们相信你一定能帮他们赚钱。
Or they trust you're gonna make money for them.
他们想赚钱，但不担心你会亏本，因为他们早就亲眼见过你在别处的表现。
They desire to make money and they don't fear that you're gonna lose it because they've seen you in action in other places.
所以，你得从这里开始下手。
So that's where you have to start.
政客们管这个叫‘最难连任的票数’。
Politicians call this the hard reelect number.
这个‘必胜票数’指的是，不管你怎么做，他们都会支持你。
The hard reelect number is some base number where no matter what you do, they still will vote for you.
所以你得先弄清楚，谁会自然而然地愿意给你钱。
So you first have to figure out naturally who would give me money.
然后从那里开始，逐步扩大范围。
And then from there, you sort of multiply it.
如果你觉得朋友和家人能给你一百万，那你的目标可以定在两到三百万，因为你可以依靠他们的信任去撬动更多资源。
You say, well, if I think that my friends and family are going to give me, let's say a million, then maybe my goal is to raise 2 or $3,000,000 because from their trust, I can leverage their trust to see.
也许你能做得更好，但你必须从这里起步。
Now maybe you could do better than that, but you have to start from there.
你不可能靠一百万的朋友和家人筹到一亿美元，但你至少应该能超过五十万。
You're not going to raise a $100,000,000 off of friends and family of a million, but you should do better than 500,000.
顺便说一句，这跟我自己的经验基本一致。
By the way, that tends to be my experience.
如果你第一次就想着要筹十亿，最后很可能卡在二十亿，因为你的第一次目标几乎总是你的‘必胜票数’。
If your first close is a billion dollars, you tend to tap out at 2,000,000,000 because your first close almost always is your hard relic number.
这跟我自己的经历完全一致。
That has been my experience.
首先得弄清楚，到底有多少人是真正信任我的。
First find out how much money do I really think trusts me already.
然后基于这个基础，再设计一场竞选活动。
And then from there, let's build on it with a campaign.
接下来我们可以聊聊具体怎么操作一场竞选。
And then we could talk about the actual mechanics of doing a campaign.
在那之前，我想请你深入讲讲这个简单的观点：说服等于欲望减去恐惧。
Before we do that, I'd love you to dig deeper into this very simple idea of persuasion equals desire minus fear.
这真是一个极其简洁又精妙的思考方式。
Like it's an incredibly simplifying, elegant way of thinking about this.
你为什么偏偏选这个公式，而不是别的呢？
Why is that the reduction that you've arrived at versus some other one?
这都是十年前的事了。
This is like a decade ago.
我曾经跟一位金融界的大佬聊过，我说我觉得其实是欲望战胜了恐惧。
I was talking to one of the masters of the universe and I was talking about, well, I think it's desire minus fear.
谢谢，先生。
Thanks, Mr.
大家都觉得无非就是贪婪和恐惧嘛，这太明显了。
Obvious, everything's, you know, greed and fear.
我仔细一想，发现其实并不对。
And I looked and I said, wow, that's actually not true.
这句话的精妙不在于它本身有多深奥，而在于欲望的本质。
The simplicity of it isn't the wisdom of the phrase, it's the nature of desire.
在于积极那一面的本质。
It's the nature of the positive side.
它传递了一个信息：人们可以被超越私利的事物所激励。
It's the invitation to say that people can be inspired by something that is not just self serving.
贪婪是纯粹利己的。
Greed is self serving.
人的本性中有太多渴望的东西。
The human condition has so many things it desires.
自我也有无数想要的东西。
The ego has so many things it desires.
否则，我们根本不会捐钱。
Otherwise, we would never give money away.
否则，我们根本不会做那些对别人有利的事。
Otherwise, we would never do things that are generous for people.
否则，我们不会关心环境、关心孩子，也不会关心真正的渴望。
Otherwise we wouldn't care about the environment, care about our children, care about desire.
当你在跟人交谈、试图说服他们的时候，很多人——这可能是刚开始做筹款时最容易被误解的关键点。
So when you're talking to somebody and trying to persuade them, too many people, and this is maybe one of the most important lessons that people seldom get right when they first start fundraising.
在另类投资领域，投资专业人士会跟对方——也就是有限合伙人——交谈，他们往往满脑子想着能给对方带来多少回报，因为赚得越多，自己就能坐更大的飞机，或者享受更多特权，这就是他们的动力。
In the alternatives world, an investing professional talks to somebody on the other side, they're called limited partners, and they just are so passionate about how much money they're going to make for them and the returns because the more money they make, the bigger the plane or whatever it is because they're motivated that way.
当然，作为受托人，你会觉得，这理应是对方最关心的事。
And of course, as a fiduciary, you're saying, well, this has to be what you care about.
但这段关系有个不为人知的秘密：绝大多数有限合伙人，并不是根据普通合伙人所获得的回报来拿报酬的，只有极少数是。
But the dirty secret to the relationship is that very few, some do, very few limited partners are actually compensated on the returns that the general partner makes.
真的很少有。
Very few are.
但确实有一部分是。
Some are.
有些人是根据内部收益率来拿报酬的。
Some are compensated on IRR.
这其实挺棘手的，对吧？
And it's hard, right?
因为在另类投资领域，你得等上十年，才能看出一个项目到底是好是坏。
Because the alternatives business, you have to wait for ten years to see if something is good or bad.
所以这种利益绑定其实挺别扭的——我说好，我按内部收益率给你付钱，可我们根本还不知道这项目到底行不行，万一最后真成了，我就得付你一大笔钱。
So it's really kind of an awkward alignment of interest sale, okay, I'm going to pay you on an IRR, but we don't really know if this is really good, so I could pay you a ton of money.
这样一来，普通合伙人就有可能人为抬高内部收益率，而如今这类操作手段可多了。
Then the general partner could be tricking up the IRR and there are lots of great tools to do that these days.
如果我把钱交给你来管理，却这样分配利益，那显然不对等。
That's misalignment of interest if I'm giving you my money to actually manage.
所以很多人不管你赚多少，自己都拿不到一分钱。
So therefore, there are a lot of people who just simply don't make money if you make money.
换句话说，他们根本没想从中捞好处。
So in other words, there is no greed.
那他们到底图的是什么？
So there's got to be some other motivation.
所以当你去募资的时候，一定要搞清楚他们这么做的真实动机，为什么他们会站在这个位置上。
So when you're trying to raise money, look for that motivation that they have because they're in that spot for some reason.
恐惧这个因素也很关键，其实恐惧说白了，就是信任的反面。
The fear piece is also really important and fear might as well be in other word of saying trust, you know, as the antitrust.
对抗恐惧最好的办法，就是建立信任。
The way to inoculate yourself against fear is trust.
一个人越害怕，你越能建立起信任，他就越不需要额外的激励。
In fact, the more fearful somebody is and the more trust you can develop, the less desire they need.
但如果他们完全信任我，其他一切都自然就顺了。
But if they just trust me absolutely, then everything else will pair in comparison.
如果他们一点都不害怕，换句话说，觉得毫无风险，他们就会去做。
If they have no fear, in other words, it's riskless, they will do it.
这一点也解释了为什么你播客里那么多对冲基金从业者总在谈什么‘风险偏好’和‘风险厌恶’。
And this is one of the things that ties into so many hedge fund professionals that appear on your podcast as well, will talk about risk loving risk aversion.
我觉得这说法根本站不住脚。
I think that's kind of bullshit.
根本不存在什么‘风险偏好’或‘风险厌恶’这回事。
I don't really think there's such things risk loving risk aversion.
真正存在的，只是那些觉得没风险的人。
I think that there are only people who perceive there's no risk.
我认为没人真正在冒大风险投资。
I think that no one actually really invests with a lot of risk.
人们其实是自己骗自己，把风险想得比实际小得多，好让自己能心安理得地去拿回报。
I think that people actually convince themselves that the risk is far less than what it really is in order to justify the risks they're taking so they can receive the reward.
那我们在哪儿能看到这种赌博行为呢？
And where do we see this gambling?
赌场啊。
The casino.
我们人类总是会找理由把风险淡化掉，这是天性。
It's part of the human condition that we rationalize away the risk.
所以有人会说：‘我喜欢冒险。’
And so somebody says, I risk loving.
不，你不是。
No, you're not.
你只是特别擅长把风险给合理化掉。
You're just really good at rationalizing away the risk.
不是完全消除风险，而是当你知道回报会巨大时，只要把风险压低到实际的一半，你就会点头答应。
And not to zero, but if you know your outcome is gigantic, you just have to rationalize the risk to half of what it really is and you'll say yes.
投资中很多认知错误，其实都出在这里。
And that's where a lot of cognitive mistakes are made in investing for sure.
很多
A lot
这个方程的很大一部分，是你提到过要尽早应用，好让事情启动起来。
of this equation is you've talked about applying it early to get going.
我也特别好奇，这些想法在后期阶段该怎么应用。
I'm also very curious about applying some of these ideas much later on.
比如你当初在通用资本的时候，已经是第八支基金了，你已经站稳脚跟，大家都认识你。
So if I think about your time at General Catalyst or something, you're on Fund eight or whatever, you're established, People know who you are.
书里有句话说，阻力最小的路径，往往是钱流向那些已经在运转的事物。
There's somewhere in the book you said, the path of least resistance is often that money goes to stuff already in motion.
第八支基金，或者说D轮，反正就是已经在运转的状态。
Fund eight, let's say, or series D or whatever, you're in motion.
是的。
Yeah.
在这个阶段，你学到了怎样才能做得特别出色？
What have you learned about doing a really great job at that stage?
那个阶段和早期完全不确定的情况有什么不同？
What happens there that's distinct from just like the early stuff of total uncertainty?
我们甚至都不知道你到底行不行。
We don't even know if you're any good.
你到底该怎么做到这一点呢？
Like, how would you do that even?
我就在想，你真的坐下来，决定要去筹这笔钱。
Like, I'm even thinking literally about you sitting down like, okay, we're gonna go raise this thing.
所以我们本质上是在推动一场达成共识的行动。
So we basically set out on a campaign of consensus.
消除恐惧的一种方式就是达成共识。
So one of the ways to get rid of fear is consensus.
共识其实是最难做到的，但也可能是推动整个市场最有力的手段，因为共识是一种宏观视角。
Consensus by the way is the hardest and maybe one of the most powerful things to move entire markets because consensus is a macro view.
一旦你有了宏观视角，本质上就已经影响了整个宏观环境。
And by definition, have a macro view, you've influenced the macro world.
所以你会发现，这种白色宣传在最理想和最糟糕的情况下，都能促成共识。
So you'll see this white propaganda in its best and worst forms creates a consensus.
实现这一点有几种方式。
There are a couple ways to go about it.
你可以认为，创新者、早期采用者、早期大众、晚期大众和落后者这一经典模型，关键在于弥合中间的鸿沟。
You could argue that there is the classic innovator, early adopter, early majority, late majority laggard, in which case you have to close the gap.
已经有很多人写过关于如何从早期采用者跨越到早期大众的精彩著作。
And lots of people have written wonderful books about early adopter to early majority.
一旦你跨过这个鸿沟，共识就会突然出现。
Once you cross that gap and all a sudden consensus starts to happen.
这种视角非常有力。
That is a really powerful framing.
我们知道，跨过这个鸿沟之后，赢家将通吃一切。
So we know the winner on the other side of that gap is actually winner take all.
所以，这一切都是值得的。
So therefore it's worth it.
第二种方式是，大笔资金往往躲在委员会背后。
The second way you can get at it is that big money tends to hide behind committees.
如果一个委员会有八九个人，必须投票决定，那本质上会发生什么？
Because if you've got a committee of eight or nine people and you have to vote, what then by definition is happening?
那就是达成共识决策。
You have a consensus decision.
我从未见过共识决策过程会做出反主流的决定。
I have never seen a consensus decision making process make a contrarian bet.
除非这个群体的设计初衷就是要做反主流的决策，否则几乎不可能做到。
Unless the group is designed to make contrarian bets, that's very hard to do.
这也解释了为什么好的风险投资公司这么难找，因为它们往往是反主流的公司。
And that's why it's very hard to find good venture capital firms because it tend to be contrarian firms.
那该怎么建立共识呢？
So how do you build consensus?
靠的是持续一致的行动。
You build it with consistency.
找一些你能够帮上忙的人，他们正是你想要达成共识的那群人，比如参与养老基金决策的顾问、主权财富基金的代表。
Find people who you can do things for that are actually part of the group you want consensus around state pension plans, let's say consultants, sovereign wealth.
他们在意共同投资吗？
Do they care about co investment?
他们在意费用吗？
Do they care about fees?
他们在意投资机会和透明度吗？
Do they care about access, transparency?
他们在意知识产权吗？
Do they care about intellectual property?
他们只是想被逗乐吗？
Do they care about just being entertained?
把关键点找出来。
Find it.
满足他们的需求。
Give it to them.
他们会主动回来找你。
They come back to you.
继续建设。
Build.
现在你有了一个主权财富基金计划。
Now you've got a sovereign wealth plan.
现在你有了一个养老金计划。
Now you've got a pension plan.
从那里开始，你开始认识一些人，他们会说：嘿，你有没有注意到，这个国家养老金计划已经投资了这些项目。
From there, you start to meet people and they say, hey, you realize that this state pension plan has invested this.
下一波投资还没等你反应过来，规模就翻了一倍。
And next thing you know, the next round, you end up doubling it.
所以如果你回顾整个过程，你会发现Catalyst和其他一些机构正在逐渐成为共识。
And so if you take a look at the experience, all of a sudden, Catalyst and others are starting to become consensus.
这对任何其他积累了资本的机构来说也是一样的。
And this is true for any of the other folks who have amassed capital.
大家普遍认为他们是这一届的赢家，而通用催化剂公司促成了这种共识。
There's a consensus that they're the winners of the class and General Catalyst created a consensus.
所以，这正是我们当初的目标。
And so that was the whole goal.
但你得一个基金一个基金地推进，而且每一步都经过深思熟虑。
But you had to do it fund by fund by fund, but it was very intentional.
顺便说一句，关键在于，你得有勇气放手那些原本跟你合作的人，因为你走的是反主流的路。
By the way, here's the thing, you have to have the courage then to lose the people who actually were the people who invest with you because you were contrarian.
换句话说，你得有胆量突破创新者的窘境。
In other words, you have to have the courage to get past the innovator's dilemma.
如果有那么一批高净值家族办公室、捐赠基金，或者小型基金中的基金，说‘你还没大到我看不上’，
And so if there's a set of folks high net worth family offices, endowments or whatever it is, or small fund of funds that say, hey, you're not too big for me.
那你迟早会失去他们，而你必须有这个决心去这么做。
You're going to lose them and you have to have the courage to do that.
你唯一不可能成功的方式，就是既想占便宜，又不想付出代价。
The only way you're not gonna succeed is if you actually wanna have your cake and eat it too.
现在有个事实是，如果你的表现特别出色，与众不同，那你就一定能一路领先。
Now, there is a truth to if your performance is so dynamic, you're so differentiated, then you'll be able to run the table.
确实有一些公司能做到这一点。
And there are firms who do that.
你根本进不去他们的基金，因为他们的业绩实在太强了，远超行业平均水平，你自然会相信他们还能继续创造这样的回报。
You can't get into the fund, can't because their performance, their track record is so absurdly strong relative to the industry that you trust that they're going to actually develop these returns again.
我记得当时是Benchmark的一位合伙人。
I remember it was one of the partners at Benchmark.
我问他们，你们是怎么募资的？
I asked them, how do you fundraise?
他们说，我们周二晚上发一封邮件，周三早上基金就启动了。
And they said, well, we send an email on a Tuesday night and the fund is gonna start Wednesday morning.
对，没错，就是这样。
Right, right, right.
那么在这种情况下，咱们来聊聊信任这个问题。
So in that case, let's talk about trust.
所以他们的稳定性，对吧？
So their consistency, right?
他们一直表现得极其出色。
They consistently perform exceptionally well.
大家普遍认为，他们是全球最顶尖的基金之一，而且名额稀缺。
Consensus is they're actually one of the best funds in the world and there's scarcity.
你不需要请顾问这样的专家来告诉你，‘这个最好’——我已经知道共识就在那儿了。
You don't have to have experts like a consultant say, well, that's the best for like, look, I already know consensus is there.
他们根本不用为你做任何事。
They don't have to do anything for you.
没有互惠，只有回报。
There's no reciprocity but returns.
我说的回报，也不是每个人都在乎的。
And by say, but returns, again, that that isn't everybody's desire.
大多数人确实想要回报，因为这能让他们显得厉害，但真正让他们占优势、享有特权的，是共识和稀缺性——这让他们能保持基金规模小， fundraising 的精力消耗也极低。
It's most people's desire because it makes them look good, but it's really about the consensus and the scarcity that allows them to have the advantage and the privilege of keeping their funds small and keeping their fundraising energy or calories very, very low.
Vanta 为 Ramp、Cursor 和 Harvey 等一万六千多家快速发展的企业自动完成安全与合规工作，全天候确保他们随时应对审计。
Vanta automates security and compliance for over 16,000 fast moving companies like Ramp, Cursor, and Harvey, keeping them audit ready around the clock.
这是目前排名第一的智能信任平台，现在它能帮你这样的公司监控审计间隙中出现的风险，覆盖供应商、AI 工具以及整个技术环境。
It's the number one agentic trust platform, and it now helps companies like yours watch for the risks that show up between audits, across your vendors, your AI tools, and your whole environment.
你团队每新增一个工具，每个供应商每启用一项 AI 功能，都可能带来安全隐患，而大多数安全体系根本跟不上 AI 的发展速度。
Every new tool your team signs up for, every vendor that turns on AI features, is an opportunity for something to go wrong, and most security programs weren't built for AI's pace of growth.
Vanta 的代理程序就像一个 24 小时在线的 GRC 工程师，在后台默默发现问题、帮你起草解决方案，还能把供应商评估时间缩短多达一半。
The Vanta agent works like a twenty four seven GRC engineer in the background, finding issues, drafting fixes for you, and cutting vendor assessment time by up to 50%.
无论你是高速成长的初创公司，还是全球性大企业，Vanta 都能帮你建立并证明信任。
Whether you're a fast growing startup or a global enterprise, Vanta helps you earn and prove trust.
像最会倾听的投资者一样，现在访问 vanta.com/invest，可享 1000 美元优惠。
Invest like the best listeners get a special offer for $1,000 off at vanta.com/invest.
Ridgeline 是首个为投资管理公司打造的端到端系统，内置 AI，将投资组合会计、对账、报告、交易和合规全部整合在一个统一平台上。
Ridgeline is the first end to end system of record with embedded AI for investment management firms, running portfolio accounting, reconciliation, reporting, trading, and compliance on one unified platform.
越来越多公司正从老旧系统转向 Ridgeline，因为它的 AI 功能在投资管理软件中遥遥领先，所以我相信，在 AI 时代脱颖而出的公司，一定会选择 Ridgeline 的统一平台。
Firms are moving off legacy technology and onto Ridgeline because of how far ahead Ridgeline's AI features are compared to anything else in investment management software, which is why I believe that firms that come out ahead in the AI era will be the ones running on Ridgeline's unified platform.
如果你真的重视公司的人工智能战略，那Ridgeline必须纳入这场讨论。
If you're serious about your firm's AI strategy, Ridgeline should be part of that conversation.
你可以去ridgeline.ai申请一个演示。
You can request a demo at ridgeline.ai.
你之前提到了‘差异化’这个词。
You mentioned the word differentiation before.
能说说你的差异化法则吗？
Can you explain your law of differentiation?
如果有人想了解融资中最关键的三条物理法则——差异化法则、权衡法则和管道法则，我来聊聊。
If anybody wants to learn three laws of physics that are the most important in fundraising, law of differentiation, law of trade offs, and law of pipeline.
咱们先说说差异化法则。
Let's talk about law of differentiation.
这就是那个法则，对吧？
This is the law, right?
就是你的业绩加上差异化，再除以你故事的复杂程度。
This is your track record plus your differentiation and you divide all that by the complexity of your story.
所以，履历不只是你的回报，还包括你的行为方式。
So track record, that isn't just your returns, but is how do you behave?
如果你是个民选官员，你的履历就是你的投票记录，对吧？
So if you're an elected official, your track record is your voting record, right?
或者是你在媒体上的表现。
Or it's the way you show up in the media.
关键是你的稳定性。
It's your consistency.
差异化可以是任何东西，比如我敢做逆向投资。
Differentiation could be anything like it can be, I can take contrarian bets.
也可以是我只专注一两件事，但一旦做，就做到极致。
It can be, I only do one or two things, but when I do them, I'm highly operationally intensive.
或者是我能接触到别人接触不到的市场领域。
It can be, I access this part of the market that no one else does.
也可能是我的普通合伙人出资比例异常高。
It could be my GP commit is abnormally large.
没错。
That's right.
那我们来看这两个积极的特点。
So let's take those two positive features.
当你在构建投资组合时，几乎所有机构投资者——也就是大资金，而不是小资金——都会有一个投资组合。
When you're trying to build a portfolio, because almost everybody at the institutional, at the big money, not the small money, the big money has a portfolio.
你拥有一组多元化的资产，会尽量让这些资产彼此不重复，因为如果它们高度相关，那你就没做好。
So you have a portfolio of diversified assets and you try to have those assets not replicate what each other's doing because if they're auto correlated, then you didn't do a great job.
所以你更希望找到那些有独特性的管理者。
So you kind of want people who are differentiated.
你是在试图为投资组合增添某种有价值的东西。
And so you're trying to add something that is additive to your portfolio somehow, some way.
好的。
All right.
接下来是一些复杂之处。
Then complications.
复杂性通常是信任的敌人。
Complications are usually the enemy of trust.
我越得解释，就越让人怀疑。比如我女儿半夜才回家，我说：‘你不是说好十二点回来吗？现在都两点了，你给个说法。’
The more I have to explain, like when my daughter comes back late at night and I said, look, you know, you're supposed to be back at midnight, but gosh, it's 2AM and explain yourself.
然后她开始讲一堆前因后果。
And there's this long story of this and that.
我一听就觉得不对劲，不太信她的话。
I'm like, I don't trust this.
我女儿挺聪明的。
My daughter's pretty smart.
她知道，爸，你心里清楚。
She knows, oh dad, you know what?
她根本就没把这事当回事。
I just blew past it.
她就是玩得开心了。
I was having fun.
不好意思。
Sorry.
实在抱歉。
Sorry.
说真的，凭什么信她？
Look, why trust her?
复杂情况会掏空你。
Complications gut you.
它会掏空你，有两个原因。
They gut you for two reasons.
第一，它会破坏或稀释信任。
First, they gut you because it ruins or it just dilutes trust.
但第二个原因更实际，我亲眼见过很多次，有人愿意信任、愿意做一件事，却没法向做决定的人说清楚。
But the second is really much more commercial, which is I've seen with my own eyes many times where people trust and want to do something, but they can't explain it to somebody else that is making the decision.
你最好给他们一句能转述给别人的话，因为别人正是靠这句话才相信他们说的。
You better give them that phrase that they can repeat to somebody else because that's how somebody else will then trust what they're saying.
这就是关键所在。
And that is the trick.
最著名的例子之一，当然就是O.
And one of the most famous examples of this is of course the O.
J.
J.
辛普森案。
Simpson trial.
手套如果戴不上，那肯定就是没戴。
If the glove doesn't fit, you must have quit.
这是历史上最著名的台词之一。
One the most famous lines in the history of the world.
你真觉得，要是没有这句话，陪审团会心安理得地走出法庭，判他无罪，或者僵持不下，还跟媒体解释为什么这么判吗？
Well, you really think that if he didn't have that, these folks would have actually been okay walking out of the courtroom, finding him not guilty or being hung as a jury and having to explain to the media why they did that?
根本不可能。
No way.
但他足够聪明，说了句：各位，你们得自己向所有人解释清楚。
But he was smart enough to say, okay, guys, you're gonna have to defend yourself to everybody.
他们为什么不愿意听你讲什么依法履职的义务，这背后原因太复杂了。
It's very complicated why they're not gonna wanna hear about your civic duty to to adjudicate the law.
你可以说：我也没办法。
You say, look, I had no choice.
手套戴不上。
The glove didn't fit.
我只能退出。
I had to quit.
我看到这一幕的时候，人生都被改变了。
Changed my life when I saw that, by the way.
我一看，原来这就是说服力的真正样子。
Looked at it, wow, that's what persuasion looks like.
所以如果你遇到复杂情况，一定要准备好这句话，它能帮你直接绕开那些麻烦，哪怕你确实有困难。
So if you have complications, make sure you give them that phrase that allows you to cut through those complications, even if you have complications.
所以你在融资的时候，真的会逐项分析这三个变量，然后系统性地逐一改进吗？
And so when you were doing a fundraise, would you literally go through these three variables and try to improve each one systematically?
当然会。
Very much.
非常注重。
Much.
一丝不苟地。
Religiously.
业绩表现加上独特优势，再除以思维的复杂性。
That track record plus differentiation divided by complexity of thought.
你一直在想办法让对方觉得你的业绩更出色。
You're constantly trying to make the track record look better in their eyes.
你也在不断优化自己的独特之处，让它更有吸引力。
You're constantly trying to make your differentiation look better.
同时，你始终在努力简化那些让人困惑的地方。
And you're constantly trying to reduce your complications.
关于差异化这一点，其实又回到了你之前问我的问题：当人做到那个层次时，大家到底在做什么？
Differentiation piece is back to the question you asked me about General Catalyst of, okay, what do people do when they get to that level?
能持续下去的人，大概分两种。
There are two kinds of people who sustain.
一种是找到了自己为什么而做的那个人。
There are those who find their why.
我们为什么能变得这么大？
Why are we this big?
我们存在的意义到底是什么？
Why do we exist?
还有一种人，觉得现在有钱了、规模也上来了，那就继续往前冲吧。
And there are those who just say, now I've got the money, I'm now big and I'm going to continue to push forward.
那些只靠这个心态往前冲的人，最后反而会变小。
Those who do that actually get small again.
而那些真正想清楚了‘我们为什么非得这么大’的人，才能持续下去。
Those who find their why, like why do we need to be this big?
这个规模到底给我们带来了什么好处？
Why is this size helping us?
那它对你又有什么帮助呢？
And why is this helping you?
这个‘为什么’不能只是个品牌口号，因为每一个‘为什么’都伴随着代价。
And the why can't be a branding because every why has a cost.
每一个差异化都有它的成本。
Every differentiation has a cost.
真正的差异化，需要巨大的牺牲。
Great differentiation requires great sacrifice.
如果你坚决说，我绝不投资武器，那你就错过了当前风投领域正在发生的代际级投资机会。
And if you're willing to say, I am never going to invest in weapons, well then you're gonna miss out on a generational amount of investing that's happening right now in the venture community.
你去看看就知道了。
Take a look.
回溯到2019年，绝大多数风投公司都说，我们绝不会投资武器。
You can go back 2019 and the vast majority of venture capital firms said, we will never invest in weapons.
现在这儿最火了。
It's the hottest area right now.
那些说绝不投资武器的人，实际上却在带头推动武器领域的发展。
The same people who said they would never invest in weapons are actually not leading the weapons charge.
简直让人难以置信。
It's unbelievable.
卓越的差异化需要巨大的牺牲。
Great differentiation requires great sacrifice.
他们永远不可能因为自己的宣言而脱颖而出。
They will never be differentiated for what they say.
他们已经失去了一贯性。
They've lost their consistency.
所以长远来看，如果有人还记得，他们会说：‘你们当初不是说绝不会做这件事吗？’
So in the long run, if anybody remembers, they'll remember, Hey, you said you're never gonna do this.
现在你们却在做。
Now you are doing it.
那就是你失去了初衷。
And that's you lost your why.
你忘了自己为什么要做这件事，因为那只是表面功夫。
You lost your why you're doing it because it was just branding.
作为一位优秀的顾问、一位筹款人，你总得提醒别人：你得有勇气坚持自己的独特定位。
As a great advisor, as a fundraiser, you're always trying to say, Hey, you gotta have the courage to stay disciplined in your differentiation.
因为如果你不坚持，就谈不上独特，迟早会被看穿。
Because if you don't, there's not differentiation and people will see through it ultimately.
另外两条法则，简单说一下，就是取舍法则：规模、速度和条款。
Then the other two laws, really quickly, is the law of trade offs, Size, speed, and terms.
我跟你说，这道理再明显不过了，可就是没人肯信。
I cannot tell you how obvious it is and how no one believes this.
如果你想募资或者吸引投资，那你只能在募资金额、募资速度和条款条件之间选两个。
That if you wanna raise a fund or you wanna raise an investment, your trade off is how much money you wanna raise, how fast you wanna raise it, or what kind of terms you're gonna give.
是不是就像盖房子时常说的，质量、成本和工期，你只能挑两个？
And is it as simple as like, you hear this about quality, cost, and speed in building a house or something like you get to pick two?
是不是有点像
Is it kind of
对，你只能选两个，对吧。
Yeah, you get to pick two, right.
但这里的不同之处在于，帕特里克，这其实回到了一个道理：资金的流动取决于信任的速度。
But the difference here though, Patrick, is that it gets back to money moves at the speed of trust.
所以规模和条款其实是相互权衡的。
So size and terms really trade off from each other.
而速度，其实就是信任本身。
Speed actually is trust.
每当我跟人解释这个，说这不是单纯的机制问题，他们就是听不进去，这真让我抓狂。
And that's the part where it drives me crazy when I try to explain to somebody like, no, no, this isn't just a discussion of mechanics.
明白了。
Okay.
我们来谈谈稀缺性。
Let's use scarcity.
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我先确定我的规模。
I take my size.
然后根据真正的稀缺性把它缩小。
I shrink it up to the scarcity, a real scarcity.
人们会行动得更快。
People will move faster.
假设我没有稀缺性。
Let's say I don't have scarcity.
那么从几何上看，他们的速度就会变慢。
Now geometrically, they're gonna move slower.
这个道理很简单。
That's straightforward.
所以回到你举的风投公司的例子，我的意思是，我一发出去，下周他们就给回了。
So back to your example of venture capital firm, I'm saying, look, I just send it out and next week they bring it in.
资源非常稀缺，资金就流动得快。
It's very scarce, money moves fast.
但如果你没有稀缺性，钱的流动就会变得非常非常慢。
But let's say you don't have scarcity and now money's gonna move very, very slowly.
它会以信任的速度流动。
It's gonna move at the speed of trust.
然后就是条款的问题。
Then there's the terms.
降低条款确实可能让人动作快一点，但真正让他们加快的，是他们觉得你现在已经快满员了——天啊，我要是再不行动，就赶不上了，我可是很早就来了。
Well, the terms lowering the terms actually may make the person move a little faster, but they're going to move faster because they think that you won't have capacity for them now that you've actually come to this tipping point where, Oh my God, if I don't move, I'm gonna miss out and I was here early.
这才是让事情加速的原因。
That's how it moves faster.
并不是因为条款降低了，事情才会变快。
It doesn't move faster because, well, lowered the terms.
那为什么他们不更快地进来呢？
Why aren't they coming in faster?
不是的。
No.
国家养老金计划还得走完那四个月的尽职调查流程，各种手续一大堆。
The state pension plan still has to go through its four months of diligence and this and that.
很多人忽略了质量、速度和成本之间的权衡关系。
And people miss that trade off versus quality, speed, and cost.
这三者确实彼此制约，没法同时兼顾。
They actually truly do trade off from each other.
如果你有资源紧张，那速度就能提上来。
You could have speed if you have scarcity.
我认识的人里，真正敢用资源紧张这招的少之又少。
Very few people I know will actually legitimately use scarcity.
Benchmark 做得特别到位。
Benchmark does wonderful.
大多数人都是靠吹牛来假装资源紧张。
Most people like to bullshit their way through scarcity.
要是你明明有余力，却装作没位置，投资人心里门儿清，你立马就失去信任了。
Oh, well, if we have room and the investor a 100% knows that they're lying and you immediately lose credibility.
所以我从不让我的候选人——那些我代表的人——去玩这套把戏，因为对方一眼就能看穿，信任一旦没了就完了。
So I never let my candidates, the people I represent, I never let them play that game because they see through and you lose trust.
一旦失去信任，资金的流转速度也就跟着没了。
And if you lose trust, you lost the velocity of money.
再看看销售漏斗的基本规律，你得搞一个有完整漏斗的营销活动，得把线索一路推过去，经过转化率的筛选，而且每一步都要有明确的量级。
Then if you take a look at just the law of pipeline, you need to run a campaign where you have a pipeline and you have to shove it through a conversion ratio and there's a bite size.
你唯一在乎的，就是你的转化率。
The only thing you care about is your conversion ratio.
就这一件事。
Only thing.
为什么？
Why?
因为如果你知道转化率是20%，那就意味着这纯粹是个努力的问题。
Because if you know your conversion ratio is 20%, then you know it's just a matter of effort.
如果你清楚每一步的量级大概在什么范围——上下波动无非是正态分布的事儿，转化率也心里有数，那你就直接说：行，圣诞节不过了，复活节也不过了，情人节也别想了，我就出门见人去。
If you know your bite size is going be a certain amount, just plus or minus on a bell curve, and you know your conversion ratio is this, then all you do is say, okay, cancel Christmas, cancel Easter, cancel Valentine's, I'm just going on the road and I'm going to meet people.
顺便问一下，是谁发现这一点的？
And by the way, who figured this out?
就是全球最大的资产管理公司。
Just the largest asset managers in the world.
他们就是这么想的：我们只是把产品推过一个转化率。
They're just like, look, we're just pushing our product through a conversion ratio.
我们能掌控的杠杆，就是怎么提升这个转化率。
And our levers that we get to pull are how do we improve that conversion ratio?
你可以通过更好的业绩来实现。
You can do it by having better performance.
你可以通过更强的差异化来实现。
You can do it by having better differentiation.
你也可以通过简化你的故事来实现。
You can do it by reducing the complexity of your story.
现在，所有这些都连起来了。
And now all of it ties together.
现在你要明白，得先越过那个硬性数字，因为那个转化率其实是被人为抬高的。
Now appreciate you have to get past the hard real like number because that conversion ratio is artificially high.
但一旦你跨过了那个硬性数字，开始接触到市场，发现每十个人里就有一个人说‘好’，那剩下的就只是看你到底有多想要了。
But once you get past your hard real like number and you start getting the market and you're like, wow, one in 10 people are saying yes, then it's just really a matter of, hey, how much do you want it?
你到底想达到什么目标？
Like what do you want to get to?
说白了，融资就只看这三样：潜在客户数量乘以转化率，再乘以单笔金额。
So it's literally just pipeline times conversion ratio times bite size.
这三者就是融资里唯一重要的数学公式。
That literally is the only math that is important for a fundraise.
我很喜欢这种简单的思考方式：无论是为公司还是基金融资，先从差异化入手，再仔细权衡取舍，明确自己真正看重什么。
I really like the simplicity of thinking through you're raising money for a company or for a fund or whatever, starting with the law differentiation, then thinking about these trade offs, being deliberate about intentional about what you're gonna care about.
然后就是实际去执行了，而转化率正是让我们能引出‘戏剧三角’这个概念的关键。
And then it's just the actual motion of like going to do it, where conversion ratio is the thing that allows us to come now to this idea of the drama triangle.
这就是我的价值主张。
So here's my value proposition.
这就是我对自己想要什么的思考方式。
Here's how I'm thinking about what I want.
而决定我能否成功的，就是这个方程式。
And like, here's the equation that's gonna determine if I'm successful.
他们唯一要做的，就是坐下来，一个个去开会。
They have to literally just go sit and do meetings.
所以你能讲讲这个‘戏剧三角’和角色定位吗？我觉得这个框架特别有用，尤其是当你得开一百场会的时候，知道这些真的很有帮助。
And so I'd love you to describe this idea of the drama triangle and personas, because I think it's a really useful frame on if you're doing a 100 meetings, it's a helpful thing to know.
有一个心理学模型叫卡普曼戏剧三角。
There is a psychological framework called the Karpman Drama Triangle.
它的核心观点是，人很难接受自己对生活拥有主动权。
And the idea is that we, as people have a hard time accepting that we have agency in our lives.
因此，我们很容易陷入受害者心态。
So therefore we have a victim consciousness.
一旦遇到不顺，就觉得是事情冲着自己来的。
And so when something bad happens, it happened to us.
生活总是发生在我们身上。
Life happens to us.
当生活对你来说是突如其来的打击时，你就成了受害者。
When life happens to you, you're a victim.
但当坏事发生时，你又觉得自己是该为此负责的受害者。
But when bad things happen, you're a victim responsible for what happened.
而当你觉得自己是受害者时，你就会去找那个罪魁祸首。
And then when you're a victim, you're looking for a villain.
而且通常你还会期待一个救世主出现。
And usually you're also looking for a hero.
在做销售提案时，如果你能察觉到对方正感到被亏待或被生活压得喘不过气，只要弄清楚他们的痛点，你就能很容易地讲一个故事，帮他们缓解这种痛苦。
In a sales pitch, if you already know that this person is feeling victimized or feeling something some way is happening to them, if you can find out what that is, it is very easy then to craft a story that allows you to alleviate that pain.
只要你做到了这一点，你就会被看作是那个挺身而出的人。
And if you can do that, then you become heroic.
比如，有人抱怨费用太高。
So for instance, somebody's complaining about the fees.
你与其说‘我讨厌的是规则，不是你’，这种话其实没什么用。
You can rather than saying, I hate the game, not the player, which isn't so useful.
你可以聊聊怎么减少这些费用，这样他们更容易答应你。
You can talk about how you can mitigate fees if that will help them say yes.
这取决于你怎么做。
It's your choice.
你完全可以这么做。
You can do that.
这样一来，他们就会觉得：‘好了，我找到能帮我解决问题的人了。’
And that allows them to say, okay, I've found a hero for my problem.
我找到解决我问题的办法了。
I found a solution for my problem.
对吧？
Right?
他们真正想找的，其实就是一个能解决问题的办法。
That's really what they're looking for, a solution.
但这确实是个了不起的思路。
But that's a heroic idea.
如果你没法成为解决方案，那就去理解那个反派，真正体会他们为什么这样。
If you can't be a solution, then you look at the villain and you just have deep empathy for the villain that exists.
然后你就切换到咨询师的状态。
And then you just move into therapist mode.
我从来没遇见过谁，会因为对别人的问题表现出同理心而变得更糟。
I've never met somebody who isn't better off by being empathetic to that problem.
我从来没遇见过哪个人，因为对别人真实困境表现出太多理解，反而被排斥。
Like I've never met the person who has been shunned because they're overly empathetic to somebody's real problem that they've discovered.
事实上，情况恰恰相反。
In fact, it's quite the opposite.
你会慢慢开始信任他们。
You learn to trust them.
开会议其实有个很简单的方法：弄清楚这场对话里有没有戏剧性，这个人或这些人心里是不是有冲突。
And it is a very simple way to manage a meeting is to find out what is the drama, is there drama in this person or these people?
我有没有能力为这种矛盾提供解决方案？
Do I have the ability to be a solution to that drama?
如果我没法直接解决这个矛盾，我能不能先理解它，让他们觉得我的建议对他们真的有帮助？
If I cannot be a solution to that drama, can I empathize with that drama so they're listening to my solution as something that is useful to them?
从某种角度来说，只要你能找到和对方契合的节奏，让他们觉得和你相处很自在，这几乎就足以让每次销售沟通都顺利了。
And in its own way, that's almost as much as you need to actually make sure that almost every sales call goes well if you could find a a wavelength to the person where they they actually feel comfortable with you.
当我问你，你遇到过哪些真正擅长建立信任的大师时？
When I asked you like who are the great masters that you've encountered of building real trust?
你最先想到的是谁？他们到底做对了什么？
Who comes to mind and what is it that they're doing so effectively?
奥普拉·温弗瑞。
Oprah Winfrey.
我觉得奥普拉的本事，就是传递善意。
And I would call Oprah's game a promotion of goodness.
那时候的社会，正需要这种东西。
And people wanted that in society at that time.
说实话，我觉得现在的人依然渴望这个。
And frankly, I think people want it today.
那我所说的‘善意’到底指的是什么？
So what I mean by goodness?
善意就是善良加上坚定的信念。
Goodness is the combination of kindness plus conviction.
你可以很善良，却没有坚定的信念。
You can be kind, but not have any conviction.
你也可以信念坚定，但缺乏善意。
You can have conviction and not be kind.
每次看到奥普拉开口说话，或者表达观点时，你都能感受到她的温柔，同时也能清楚地感觉到，她坚信某些东西，她代表某些价值。
I think that whenever you saw Oprah open her mouth or whenever she presented something, there was a kindness to her, but there was a conviction that she stood for something, that she meant something.
某种程度上，她比播客主持人更早地做到了这一点——她清楚自己想从对方身上挖掘出什么，让全世界都能听到。
In some ways, she preceded the podcaster in that she had a conviction of what she wanted to get out of the person for the rest of the world to hear.
有时候，她谈的是痛苦。
Sometimes it was about pain.
有时候是关于激励。
Sometimes it was about inspiration.
通常是关于激励。
Usually, it was about inspiration.
她在赢得广大观众信任方面做得非常出色。
And so in terms of engendering trust, she did a wonderful, wonderful job of engendering trust with bigger audience.
她展现出许多建立制度性信任的做法，比如互惠。
She exhibited more institutional trust building exercises like reciprocity.
她真的会送给观众礼物。
Would literally give gifts to the audience.
是啊，你还能得到一辆车。
Yeah, you get a car.
你还能得到一辆车，对吧？
You get a car, right?
但她还营造了共识。
But she also created consensus.
我的意思是，她搞了奥普拉读书俱乐部。
I mean, she had the Oprah's Book Club.
那可是史上最强大的共识形成工具。
That was the mother of all consensus.
她让大家都觉得，这些书就是最值得读的，她的影响力甚至可能超过了任何一位顶尖的权威人士。
Like, hey, the idea that this book club or these books are the best books for people to read, she became as powerful or I would argue more powerful than any of the best telepathists.
这本质上就是一种共识。
And that's a consensus idea.
谁会想读这些书呢？
Like who wants to read these things?
权威。
Authority.
她善于邀请有影响力的人来讨论那些原本没机会被提及的社会议题。
She was able to use and recruit people with authority to talk about issues of our society that otherwise wouldn't have a stage.
这正是如今播客主播的影响力范围。
That's the podcasters sort of zone of influence today.
她能让人喜欢她，而喜欢正是建立信任的一种方式。
She was able to create liking, which is a way of creating trust.
我喜欢你，你也喜欢我。
I like you, you like me.
想想看，她作为一个非裔美国女性，却能在中西部地区深受喜爱，而那里的人口结构通常截然不同。
And imagine how incredible this is in a population that she's an African American woman, that she's able to sit and she is a beloved individual in the Midwest, which tends to skew different demographically.
但她总能让人产生好感，而且极具同理心。
But she's able to engender liking and she's incredibly empathetic.
她始终如一地邀请嘉宾上节目，说什么、信什么，总能在对话中给人带来启发。
And so consistency, she's very consistent with the way she actually brings people on stage and what she says and what she believes and how she was always able to give somebody something inspirational in a conversation.
你从没跟奥普拉聊完后觉得，这谈话真压抑。
You never left a conversation with Oprah thinking, that was a downer.
这种事情根本没发生过。
Just never happened.
所以如果你知道一打开频道准能看到奥普拉，而且每次都能受到鼓舞，那这就是她的品牌。
So if you know consistently, gonna turn on the channel, I'm gonna see Oprah and I'm gonna be inspired, then that's her brand.
最后一个因素是稀缺性。
And then the last one is scarcity.
她身上有种稀缺感，除了《奥普拉脱口秀》，她从不在其他地方露面。
She had a scarcity about her and that she really didn't show up anywhere else but Oprah.
你几乎看不到她出现在各种广告里。
You didn't see her, you know, in a lot of advertisements.
你也看不到她去参加别的脱口秀。
You didn't see her on doing other talk shows.
她根本不会去做别的事情。
You didn't see her do anything else.
她就是奥普拉，仅此而已。
She just was Oprah and that's all she did.
所以如果你想看奥普拉，你就只能打开这个节目，这种唯一性建立了信任。
So if you wanna see Oprah, you had to tune in to that and that creates trust.
在我们刚才讲的这个过程中，你最常见的错误是什么？
So in this process that we've laid out, what are the most common mistakes that you see people make?
最常见的错误其实特别简单，就是人们太依赖逻辑了。
Most common mistake is super easy, is that people over index on logic.
这真让我惊讶。
It blows me away.
你去看那些情感层面的东西，对吧？
You'll go see those pathos, right?
逻辑、情感和价值观。
Logic, emotions, and values.
西蒙·斯涅克提到‘为什么’这个问题，这其实是你情感和价值观的驱动力，真正决定你做决定的根源。
Simon Sinek talks about the question why, which is actually your emotional and your value or your intuitive engine that actually makes you make decisions.
而前额叶皮层，只是给这些感受赋予意义而已。
And that the frontal lobe actually is what actually just puts meaning to all of the feelings.
事实证明，这通常是正确的。
Well, as it turns out, that's generally true.
我有两个办法，能让人记住这一点，不会搞混‘你为什么这么做’背后的逻辑。
There are two ways I get people to remember this that don't get confused with the here's the logic of why you do it.
而且通常人们会觉得，我的回报已经够高了。
And usually the logic is my returns are so great.
我做得已经非常出色了。
I do such a great job.
这些只是基本要求。
It's table stakes.
但我总会提醒人们两件事。
But I always remind people of two things.
首先，我会说，我们回头看看信念和信任之间的区别。
First, I say, well, back to the difference between belief and trust.
你或许能赢得别人的信念。
You can win the belief.
这架飞机不会出事。
This plane is not gonna crash.
但我还是害怕。
I'm still scared.
钱是不会动的。
Money is not going to move.
换句话说，得先跨过恐惧这道坎。
So in other words, gotta get past the fear.
但大家都不去正视房间里存在的恐惧。
And people don't address the fear in the room.
最大的错误就是只讲逻辑。
Biggest mistake is they stay with logic.
他们没去关注房间里的人。
They don't address the person in the room.
他们只谈房间里那些受托责任的目标。
They address the fiduciary objectives in the room.
我第二个让他们记住的方法，是用‘化’这个词，对吧？
Second way I get them to remember it is the phrase ization, right?
它的本意就是创造一种状态。
Literally means to create a condition.
所以你想想，文明的意思，就是把那些享乐主义的、野蛮的东西，变得有教养。
So you think of civilization means to take something that is hedonistic or brutish and to make it civilized.
于是你创造了文明，但它一开始根本不是文明的样子。
So you create civilization, but it does not start out as civil.
要建立秩序，就得把原本混乱分散的东西，强行整理成现在这种有条理的状态。
To create organization, something is chaotic and dispersed, you are creating that from something that's not naturally in its state into something that is now organized.
那什么是合理化呢？
Well then what is a rationalization?
合理化就是，你把本来不讲道理的东西，硬生生掰成讲道理的样子，让它变成它本来不是的东西。
Rationalization is you're taking something that is not rational and you're actually forcing it into becoming something that it is not, which is rational.
换句话说，合理化就是我们脑子里编出来，用来解释自己为啥有这种感受的理由。
In other words, rationalization is just the thing that we make up in our head to explain why we feel the way we feel.
最重要的一点是，如果你想让人点头同意，关键在于欲望减去恐惧。
The most important thing to remember is that if you wanna get to yes, it's desire minus fear.
但欲望和恐惧，本质上都是情绪状态。
But desire and fear are both emotional states.
它们都属于道德层面的状态。
They're both ethical states.
你得赢得人们的真心和行动，让他们不再出于本能感到恐惧，而是信任你，并且发自内心地渴望或有道德上的意愿去这么做，这时候逻辑自然就跟上了。
And you have to win the hearts and bodies of the people and get them to a place where they are not instinctively scared, they trust you, and they have an emotional desire or ethical desire to do this, then the logic will follow.
逻辑只是帮他们澄清或合理化那个他们本来就想做的决定。
And the logic just helps define or helps justify the decision they want to make.
大多数人第一个犯的错误，就是以为逻辑才是赢得人心的关键。
So the first mistake that everybody makes is that they think that the logic is where you're winning it.
逻辑其实是成功说服之后的结果，而不是前提。
The logic actually is an output of a successful sales pitch, not the input.
如果我把这个很有用的洞见，用你之前说的内容来表达，是不是可以说，在你的差异化公式里，恐惧就是复杂性，过往记录是合理化，而差异化本身其实就是剩下的部分——也就是所有那些关于渴望的东西。
If I try to take that very helpful insight and put it in terms of what you said earlier, is it fair to say that in your equation of differentiation, fear is complications, track record is rationalization, and that differentiation is really the remainder, is like all this desire stuff.
这其实说得挺到位的。
Well, that's pretty good actually.
我觉得这已经很好地概括了核心。
I think that gets you to quite a great description.
是的，我特别喜欢这个观点。
Yeah, I love this.
我花了大概十五到二十年的时间，一直在讲追踪、定位差异与思维复杂度之间的关系。
I've spent maybe fifteen, twenty years talking about tracker, place differentiation divided by complexity of thought.
这就像一个三位一体，就像其他任何三位一体一样——规模、速度、条件，或者说是逻辑、用途和方法。
And it's a trinity, just like any other trinity, size, speed, and terms, logos, uses, and methods.
没错，确实能套进这个框架里。
And yeah, yeah, it does fit in that.
你做了这么多不同且有趣的方式，也看过别人用各种方式实践，有没有什么关于企业优秀融资过程和目的的事情，是我还没问到的？
After doing this in so many different interesting ways, and seeing others do it in so many interesting ways, is there anything we've left on the table about the process and purpose of really good fundraising in a business that I haven't asked about?
战术层面的问题是：你本人是什么样的人？你希望谁来代表你？
The tactical part is what kind of person are you and what kind of person do you want to represent you?
你是想找一个销售型的人，还是服务型的人？
Are you looking for a salesman or service provider?
还是说，你想找一个像国务卿那样的人？
Are you looking for a secretary of state?
那国务卿到底是干什么的？
And what is a secretary of state?
国务卿是内阁里最有权势的人之一，这个部门的独特之处在于，你根本没法控制它的服务对象。
Secretary of state is one of most powerful people in the cabinet who actually is the one department where you actually don't have control over the constituents.
作为总统，你可以掌控财政部。
You have control as a president over the treasury.
你也能掌控能源部。
You do have control over energy.
你还能掌控卫生与公共服务部。
You do have control over health and human services.
你也能掌控国家安全，因为你掌握着预算。
You do have control over national security because you have control budgets.
你掌控的是影响力。
You control influence.
但你管不了中国。
You do not have control over China.
你对英国也掌控不了。
You do not have control over The UK.
所以你必须任命一位国务卿，让他能跟你那边打交道，帮你建立关系，你在不在场的时候都能代表你。
So therefore you have to have a secretary of state that actually allows you to interact with them and helps you create that and it can represent you when you're not there.
这就是一个出色的筹款人的作用。
That's what a great fundraiser is.
当你派这个人去，说：嘿，这位是代表我们来的。
When you can send that person in and say, ah, this person is here.
我知道你是代表总统说话的。
I know you speak for the president.
要做到这一点真的很难。
And that's really hard to do.
很多人对这一点的理解完全错了，这挺让人惊讶的。
And it's fascinating how many people get this wrong.
有意思的是，每当有人问我：我该找什么样的国务卿？
It's fascinating how when somebody asks me, well, what kind of secretary of state am I looking for?
我总是问他们：当你不在场的时候，你希望别人对你有什么第一印象？
I always say to them, well, what is the first impression you want people to make when you're not in the room?
想想美国总统们，比如尼克松，他身边有基辛格，那种现实政治的风格和气场。
So if you think about presidents of The United States, president Nixon, he had Kissinger, kind of that look and feel of real politic.
再看看克林顿总统。
You take a look at president Clinton.
他选了马德琳·奥尔布赖特，那是政策专家中的顶尖人物，联合国大使，拥有史上最强的国际政策履历。
He had Madeleine Albright, policy wonk of the highest order, United Nations ambassador, incredible reputation of having the deepest international policy experience ever.
这正是克林顿想要塑造的形象。
Exactly the image that president Clinton wanted.
再来看奥巴马。
And then you take a look at Barack Obama.
奥巴马的样子和语气是这样的：你知道吗？
Barack Obama, he's looks and says, well, you know what?
我想改变的是那种值得你相信的东西。
I wanna be changed that you can believe in.
我想让人感到鼓舞。
I wanna be inspirational.
而且他对外交事务的经验也非常少。
And he also has very little foreign experience.
所以他任命了对手，表明自己能跨越分歧，同时也请到了一位史上经验最丰富的国务卿——希拉里·克林顿。
So he hires his opponent to show he can cross the bridge and also happens to one of the most experienced people to ever sit in that chair, Hillary Clinton.
这其实是在问：我希望别人看到的是谁？
It just harves out who do I want you to see?
这个人必须来自相关领域。
And that person has to be of industry.
所以当有人跟我说，‘我之所以能当好筹款人，是因为我当过投资银行家，做过并购合伙人，熟悉这套体系’，
So when I meet somebody says, well, the reason why I could be such a fundraiser as an investment banker, as an ex deal partner is because I understand the system.
我一听就觉得，这人选完全错了。
I look and go, that's exactly the wrong person.
你真正需要的国务卿，是真正懂语言、懂局势的人。
The person that you want as secretary of state is someone who actually understands the language and what's going on.
如果你当国务卿，却不了解中东的实际情况，只懂政策和总统的思维方式，那作用有限。
If you do not understand what's going on in The Middle East as the secretary of state, but you understand policy and how the president thinks, that's not so helpful.
如果你不了解亚洲的情况，不懂那里的文化与政治动态，对总统的帮助也有限。
If you don't understand what's going on in Asia and how all that dynamic works in the culture and the politics, it's not so helpful to the president.
但如果你清楚总统想要什么，那倒是不错。
But you understand what the president wants, great.
不过你得真正明白他们想要什么。
But you have to understand what they want.
而你的个人特质与对方需求的交集，正是优秀投资者关系专业人士的核心所在。
And that intersection of who they are and what you are is the intersection of what a great investor relations professional is.
现在我们来谈谈那些想当国务卿的人——不是那些要雇人的人，而是有潜力成为代表的人。
Now speaking to the people that want to go be the Secretary of State, not the people that wanna hire them, but the people that could be that representative.
他们该找什么样的领导人来追随呢？
What should they look for in a leader to go work for?
这要看你的抱负是什么。
It depends on what your ambition is.
归根结底，简单来说就是，你想支持什么样的候选人？
In the end, the easy way to think about it is what kind of candidate do you want to support?
世界上有些人，我并不对此做评判，他们就说：我就想加入一支能赢的队伍。
There are people in the world, and I'm not judgmental about this, who say, look, I just want to be on a winning team.
有些候选人能力很强，但即使给他们大量资金或资源，也不一定能在这个世界上取得巨大成就。
And there are candidates who are really strong candidates who aren't necessarily people that giving them substantial sums or resources are going to do great in this world.
但他们确实是优秀的候选人，而优秀的候选人能帮你赢得选举。
But they're great candidates and great candidates allow you to get elected.
一旦你当选了，国务卿这个职位本身就会带来各种好处。
And when you're elected, there are benefits to the Secretary of State, period.
换句话说，你的候选人越有实力，国务卿的影响力就越大。
I mean, in other words, the more powerful your candidate, the more powerful the secretary of state.
在某种程度上，像我这样做筹款工作的人，必须时刻保持谦逊——我们真正的价值，完全取决于我们所代表的人。
In some ways, people who have these fundraising jobs, myself included, one of the humilities that we need to commit to is that we really are only as great as the people we represent.
即使在我筹款事业的巅峰时期，我所展现的，依然是别人的卓越。
That I, when I was at my peak as a fundraiser, still am representing somebody else's greatness.
这真的很重要。
And that's really important.
所以你得想清楚，为这个候选人做出牺牲、放下自尊，值得吗？
So you have to then say, is it worth it to make the sacrifice and the ego deprivation for this candidate?
在你职业生涯的不同阶段、人生的不同时期、自我认知的不同层次，你的选择也会不一样。
And at different stages in your career and at different stages of your life and different stages of your ego development, you'll make different decisions.
他们会说，我想为自己和家人赚一大笔钱。
They'll say, look, I want to make a lot of money for me and my family.
所以我得找一个最能赚钱的候选人。
So I'm going to find the best candidate who I can monetize.
我想站在一个有影响力的位置上。
I want to be in a powerful place.
但也有人会说，我真的想为这个人争取资源，因为我真心相信他能成事。
And there are other places to say, look, I really actually want to try to attract resources to this individual because this individual is a candidate who I really believe in.
即使资源有限，我也心甘情愿，因为我做的事是我坚信的。
And I'm okay if we only have a small amount of resources because I'm doing something that I believe in.
如果你能找到两者兼备的，那可就真撞大运了。
And if you can find both, then you hit the jackpot.
这有点像婚姻，或者一般的职业选择。
It's a little bit like marriage or careers in general.
既然一半以上的人最后都离了婚，那为什么还有那么多人结婚呢？
Why does everybody get married when 50% or more of people don't stay married?
实际上，或许有七成五的人根本就不该结婚。
And actually maybe 75% of people shouldn't be.
因为一旦成真了，那就是人生能给你的最美好的东西之一。
It's because when it works out, it's one of the most magnificent things that life could possibly give you.
所以回报真的非常大。
So the payout's great.
工作也是一样。
It's a little bit like jobs.
当你遇到一个既能吸引资本、擅长建立关系，又恰好是你发自内心欣赏、真心希望他成功的候选人时，那简直就像中了彩票。
When you find that candidate who is magnificent in their ability to attract capital and develop relationships, and they happen to be somebody who also is somebody who you ethically and emotionally just adore and want to see do well, that's like winning the lottery.
但和糟糕的婚姻不同，这并不是非黑即白的经历。
But unlike a bad marriage, it's not a binary experience.
我的经验是，当国务卿、负责投资者关系，都能带来很多强大的优势和内在的满足感，因为反过来讲，只要你喜欢这份工作，享受其中的好奇心、与人交往和学习的过程，它就会让你乐在其中。
My experience is that to be a secretary of state, be a head of investor relations, to have many powerful benefits and great intrinsic joys, because the flip side of it is, is that if you enjoy the job, you do like your job, you enjoy the job of curiosity and meeting people and learning.
如果你喜欢经常出差，真心享受与人互动、探索对方的性格，那这份工作几乎可以说是顶级的——因为你每天每时每刻都在参与对人性的探索。
Well, if you like traveling a lot, frankly, if you like interacting with people and playing the game of discovery of the person, and this is about as good a job as exists because you get to play the exploration of people every minute of every day.
当你担任国务卿或投资者关系负责人，接触这么多不同的人时，有时会获得深刻的智力启发，但更重要的是，你总能真正接触到人性最真实、最基层的一面。
When you're a secretary of state or your head of investor relations, and you're meeting all these people, you sometimes get some great intellectual stimulation, but you always get a opportunity to actually engage at the coalface of the human condition.
你能经历的事情，真的令人惊叹。
And it's amazing what you get to experience.
我想说，任何长期从事这份工作的人，或者像我过去那样长期做这一行的人，都会建立起一些非凡的友谊。
And I'd say that this is true for anybody who's done this job for a long time, or the job that I used to do for a long time is that you make some incredible friendships.
因为从本质上讲，你花了大量时间，只为跨越信任的那道门槛。
Because by definition, you spent all this time trying to get to the other side of trust.
那么，另一个回报是什么呢？
Well, what is the other dividend?
真正重要的不是你吸引到了多少钱。
It's not the money that you actually were able to attract.
而是你真的和那个人成了朋友。
It's that you actually became friends with the person.
不可能有别的可能。
Cannot be any other way.
如果你真心在建立信任，那你就真正在培养一段友谊。
If you're authentically developing trust, then you're authentically creating a friendship.
如果你回顾一下你做这些事的全部经历，我们开始录之前你提到过‘内在游戏’这个概念。
If you think about your whole set of experience doing stuff like this, you were talking about this idea of inner games before we started recording.
你对那些杰出人物的内在游戏充满了兴趣。
You're being interested in the inner game of interesting exceptional people.
你会怎么描述你自己的版本呢？
How would you describe your own version of that?
在这段时期里，你的内在游戏究竟是怎样的？
Like, what has the inner game been like for you across this period?
筹款的内在游戏，核心就是把房间里的那个人放在所有对话的中心。
The inner game of fundraising is really about putting the person in the room as the center of all conversation.
我其实不存在，除非此刻你心里还想着我。
That I actually don't exist, but for the fact that I'm in your mind at this moment in time.
我只不过是你脑海中的一个形象。
I actually am just an object in your mind.
而这个形象，正被你心中所有关于帕特里克·奥肖内西的认知所加工。
And that object in your mind is being processed by all the stuff that is Patrick O'Shaughnessy.
既然我现在活在你的脑子里，我能做些什么，让你觉得我有趣、有吸引力，让你想再见到我，让你觉得邀请我上你的播客是值得的？因为我已经成了你内心世界的一部分。
And so now that I'm living in your mind, what can I do to, in this case, make myself interesting, make myself compelling, make myself somebody you want to meet again, make myself somebody that you are satisfied that you actually invited onto your podcast, because I'm inside your mind of what is going on inside of there?
我看着你，感受到你强烈的求知欲。
And when I look at you, I see such a deep curiosity.
还有你惊人的耐心。
I see incredible patience as well.
你愿意听我这么长篇大论地讲下去。
You're allowing me to have these long form explanations.
所以当我跟你说话的时候，我本人其实没那么真实存在，反而是我活在你的脑子里。
So when I'm talking to you, I really myself don't even exist over here as much as I exist inside your head.
这才是最高层次说服力的核心。
And that's the inner game of the highest level of persuasion.
心理操控高手就是这样做的。
Mentalists do this.
他们能钻进你的脑子里。
They get inside your head.
催眠师也是这样。
Hypnotists do this.
心理学家同样如此。
Psychologists do this.
任何擅长深度对话的人，如果真有本事，都不会只说‘我是什么样的人’。
Anybody who's engaged in a mental discussion, if they're really good, they're not just saying, here's what I am.
他们会问：你是什么样的人？
It's like, who are you?
那我要怎么跟你说话，才能让你真正感到舒服呢？
And how do I address you in a way that actually is satisfying to you?
希望今天这期播客里，我已经做到了。
And I hope I've done that in today's podcast.
感谢大家，来回答我一贯的最后一个问题。
Thank you to my traditional closing question for everyone.
别人对你做过的最温暖的一件事是什么？
What is the kindest thing that anyone's ever done for you?
首先，谢谢你问这个问题，因为它让我想起生活中无数值得感恩的瞬间——如果没有别人的善意，我今天根本不可能站在这里。
First of all, thank you for asking it because it opens up such a cornucopia of gratitude in my life because there's no way I'd be where I am today without the charity of others.
最难的，其实是从这么多事里挑出一件来。
And so the hardest part was finding that one moment.
当我想到最暖心的事时，我突然意识到：
When I thought about the nicest thing, I thought, you know what?
其实不是某一件具体的事，而是无数善意累积起来的整个过程。
It's actually the body of work of niceness.
那一定得是我妻子。
And that has to be my wife.
她为我做过的那些温暖又体贴的事，累积起来就是最好的证明。
The body of work of things that she does for me that is kind and nice.
她对我最贴心的地方，就是一直支持我，包容我作为筹款人所经历的种种疯狂——那有多难，身体上有多吃力，她都懂。
So the nicest thing she's done for me is support me and all of the lunacy that actually is connected to being a fundraiser and how hard it is and physically how difficult it is.
但我得跟你说一个关于我妻子的故事，我现在58岁了。
But I'll tell you that the one story that about my wife, so I'm 58 years old.
八年前我过五十岁生日，我出生于1967年。
And so eight years ago I had my fiftieth birthday and I was born in 1967.
我从小就很爱七八十年代的摇滚乐队。
And so I grew up loving eighties and seventies rock bands.
我最喜欢的摇滚乐队叫Styx。
And my favorite rock band is a band called Styx.
所以在五十岁生日那天，我刚好会弹吉他。
And so on my fiftieth birthday, and I happened to play guitar.
于是她请了一支乐队来演出，而我刚好能用吉他弹几首Styx的歌。
And so she got a band to play and I happened to be able to play several Styx songs on my guitar.
他们把我叫上台，说：‘今天是你五十岁生日，不如让John上来弹一首他最爱的Styx歌曲？’
And so they called me up on stage and said, well, your fiftieth birthday, you know, why don't we have John come up and play one of his favorite stick songs?
我当时就觉得太棒了。
And so I'm like, great.
他们打开吉他箱，我妻子给我准备了一把由Styx全体成员亲笔签名的吉他。
They opened up the guitar case and my wife got me an autograph guitar from every band member of Styx.
箱子里还放着下一场演出的门票，她还弄到了后台通行证，让我能见到乐队成员。
And then inside there was actually tickets to the next show and she got me backstage passes so I can meet the band.
太惊人了。
Amazing.
确实惊人。
Amazing.
到今天为止，这仍然是别人为我做过最暖心的事。
And it's the nicest thing to this day that anybody's ever done for me.
这太不可思议了，不仅这份礼物极其罕见，她还得费心去安排，而且要有足够的资源才能办到。
It was incredible because not only was it such a rare gift to give somebody, but she had to go figure this out and she had to have the resources to go do this.
顺便说一下，她不仅让我上台和乐队一起演奏Styx的歌，我弟弟，那个比我小五岁的弟弟，还会弹钢琴。
And by the way, just so you know, not only did she get me on stage to play a Styx song with this band, but my brother, my younger brother, who's five years younger than me plays piano.
她让他学会了那首《Come Sail Away》的钢琴版。
She got him to learn the song on pianos, Come Sail Away.
于是我弟弟上台弹起钢琴，我笑得不行，天啊，我弟弟平时那么忙。
So my brother gets on stage and starts playing the piano and I'm laughing like, Oh my God, my brother's a very busy guy.
真是不好意思，让你为了这个专门学这首歌。
Like, wow, I'm sorry that you had to learn this.
整个这件事其实是一种爱的表达，但也完全体现了我是谁。
And so the whole thing was an expression of love, but it was an identity of me.
这是对我的一种庆祝。
It was a celebration of me.
这份心意，谁也拿不走。
You can't ever take that away.
真美。
Beautiful.
用这句话收尾再合适不过了。
Wonderful place to close.
今天你给了我们很多启发。
You've taught us a lot today.
非常感谢你
Thanks so much for your
的宝贵时间。
time.
谢谢你。
Well, thank you.
能来这里真的很开心。
It was great to be here.
如果你喜欢这期节目，欢迎访问 colossus.com。
If you enjoyed this episode, visit colossus.com.
这个播客的每一集都配有精心编辑的文字稿。
You'll find every episode of this podcast complete with hand edited transcripts.
你还可以订阅《科洛索斯》，我们每季度推出的印刷版、数字版和独家音频刊物，深入介绍我们最敬佩的创业者、投资人和公司。
You can also subscribe to Colossus, our quarterly print, digital, and private audio publication featuring in-depth profiles of the founders, investors, and companies that we admire most.
更多详情请访问 colossus.com/subscribe。
Learn more at colossus.com/subscribe.
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