乔·罗根体验第2435期——布拉德利·库珀

但我们尽量做到真实，所有在卖家工作的人都出现在电影里，所有同意参与的人都是真的。

But but we we we try to do it as authentic as possible, which was everybody that works at the seller, they're there in the movie, everybody who agreed to do it.

所以所有的服务员和工作人员，都是那里真正工作的员工。

So all the waiters and everything, the staff, that's all people that work there.

莉兹，那位扮演经理的经理，她本身就是卖家的经理。

Liz, who's the manager who plays the manager, she's the manager of the seller.

所以这些人都是真实的。

So all those people are real.

但观众方面，我不记得邮件内容或具体请求了，但大概是那些喜欢看脱口秀、经常去观看的人。

But then the patrons, we'd I can't remember what the email was or what the the the the the ask was, but, like, people who like to go to stand up comedy, who go who go regularly.

一旦他们到场，我从没告诉他们会发生什么。

And then once they were there, I never told them what was gonna happen.

我从未指导过他们一次。

I never directed them once.

他们笑什么，就让它是什么。

It was like whatever the they're laughing at, that's it.

我很少拍多次。

I don't do many takes.

所以你看到的是真实的反应。

So you're getting an authentic reaction.

现在因为有摄像机和电影的氛围而被放大了，但他们并不知道该做什么。

Now it's hyped up because there's cameras there and it's a movie, but they're not told what to do.

感觉就是这样。

It feels like that.

而且在后期制作中，我们从未添加任何东西。

And so and even in the mix, like, we never added anything.

没有添加任何笑声，什么都没有。

There was no added laugh, nothing.

哦，太棒了。

Oh, that's great.

是的。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

这都是因为我心想，必须得真实。

It's all because I was like, it's just gotta be real.

因为我想让威尔只是，你知道的，我不想让他表演。

Because I wanted Will to just you know, I just don't want him to act.

对。

Right.

我就只想让他。

I just want him to.

所以，你知道的，谢恩·吉利斯很慷慨。

And that's why, you know, you Shane Gillis was kind enough.

他第一次上台就是在母舰这里。

The first time he went up was here at the mothership.

谢恩给了他四分钟的表演时间。

Shane gave him four minutes of his set.

他、我、威尔和我一起飞到了奥斯汀，坐在绿色休息室里。

And he and I and Will and I flew to Austin, and we're sitting in the green room.

谢恩迟到了一个半小时，托尼也在那儿，他特别友善。

And Shane was like an hour and a half late, and Tony was there, and he was so nice.

我以前从没见过托尼，就是在那儿我闻到了那东西。

I'd never met Tony before, and that's where I smelled the thing.

你知道的，我还闻了那个辣椒酱。

Know, I did this Oh, the smelling salsa too.

操我。

Fuck me.

那玩意儿可不是闹着玩的。

That shit is no joke too.

是啊。

Yeah.

那是威尔第一次登台，我们当时正试用一些素材，以亚历克斯·诺瓦克的身份上台。

And and that was the first time Will ever went up, and we we were just trying some of that material and went up as Alex Novak.

因为我在想，作为一个演员，什么时候才能真正有机会去实践你一直准备做的事情呢？

Because I was like, when do you have an opportunity as an actor to actually do the thing you're preparing to do?

对，没错。

Like, you Right.

想想看，这得花多少钱。

And, like, think about how much that cost.

你可以走进一个有真实观众的房间。

Like, you can go into a room where there's real people.

对。

Right.

每一步你都在俱乐部里，一切就是这样。

It's all and then every step that you're taking, you're in a club.

所以他这么做了。

So he did that.

当我们回到纽约后，他每周演三次，每晚四到五场，持续了大约六周。

And then when we back went back to New York, he did it, like, three times a week, four or five times a night for, like, six weeks.

哇。

Wow.

只是为了理解那种感觉。

Just so he could understand what it's like.

有些人并不知道他是谁。

And some people didn't know who he was.

你知道，有很多游客会来纽约市，嗯。

You know, you get a lot of tourists come into New York City Mhmm.

有些晚上，当他自称亚历克斯·诺瓦克时，对方只是说：‘好的。’

And there were nights where you knew that he when he said Alex Novak, they're like, cool.

对。

Right.

并不是说你不是亚历克斯·诺瓦克。

Not like you're not Alex Novak.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

好吧。

Okay.

让我们看看你有什么。

Let's see what you got.

所以那真的很棒。

And so that was really that was really great.

谁写了这部电影？

How did you who wrote this film?

他和一个叫马克·查佩尔的人一起写的。

He wrote it with this guy Mark Chappell.

这部电影更多是基于一位名叫约翰·毕晓普的真正喜剧演员。

It was it was a movie that was more about his based on this guy, John Bishop, who's a real comedian.

他是英国非常成功的喜剧演员。

He's a very successful comedian in The UK.

他和那个家伙在某艘驳船上相遇了，当时他们在聊他的故事。

And and he Will met that guy on a barge somewhere, and and he was at talking about his story.

他就说，是啊。

And he was like, yeah.

我当时在做别的事情。

I was in I was doing something else.

我和我妻子正在分手，有一天晚上我走进了一家酒吧。

My wife and I were breaking up, and I walked into a bar, a pub one night.

我不想付入场费。

I didn't wanna pay the cover.

这件事真的发生在那个家伙身上。

That really happened to this guy.

所以他报了名，然后他们叫了他。

So he put his name down, and then they called him.

然后他就像，嗯。

And then he was like, yeah.

我正在办离婚，听了之后笑了几声，但他却特别喜欢。

I'm getting a divorce and got a couple chuckles, but he just loved it.

他以前从没做过喜剧，之前什么都没干过，但他一直回去表演。

Never done comedy, nothing before that, and he kept going back.

他对这件事着了迷。

And he like was obsessed by it.

几周后，他的前妻带着朋友走进了他参加开放麦的场所，而他正在表演关于他们关系的段子。

And then like weeks later, his wife, estranged wife walked into a place he was doing an open mic at with her girlfriends and he was doing a set about their relationship.

这事儿真的发生了。

So that actually happened.

哇。

Wow.

我知道。

I know.

然后他们和好了，到现在还在一起，现在他几乎走遍全球巡演。

And then they got back together and they're still together and then now he like he tours around the world.

他靠当喜剧演员谋生。

Like he makes a living as a comedian.

这太不可思议了。

That's incredible.

是啊。

Yeah.

当他告诉我这件事时，我正在拍另一部电影，我记得我当时问：‘你最近在忙什么？’

So when he was telling me that, I was doing another movie and I remember I was like, what are working on?

因为我们已经做了二十五年的朋友。

Because we've been friends for for like twenty five years.

他跟我讲这些的时候，我就在想威尔，因为我太了解他了，他如此有魅力、幽默，而且有一种独特而稀缺的气场。

And and he was telling me that, I was like, I just imagine Will because I know him so well, and he's so charismatic and funny and just has this presence that that is kinda lacking.

我觉得现在市面上没有哪种男性形象能契合他。

I don't feel like there's, like, a male archetype now that fits him.

他就像罗伯特·米彻姆。

He's like he's like Robert Mitchum.

他让我想起年轻时的罗伯特·米彻姆，威尔·阿奈特。

He reminds me like a young Robert Mitchum, Will Arnett.

他跟我讲这些的时候，我想着，他的声音和那张脸，真是个单口喜剧演员。

And he's telling me that, I'm like, his voice and, like, that face stand up comic.

我就是挥之不去，乔。

I just couldn't get it out of my head, Joe.

于是我跟他说：嘿，老兄。

And I was like, hey, man.

我能看看剧本吗？

Like, can can I read it?

你们进展到哪儿了？

Like, how far along are you guys?

我读完之后心想，就像你一样，我从来没看过一部我觉得完全到位的电影，而我如此热爱单口喜剧。

And I read it, and I was like, I didn't quite because like you, I had never seen a movie that I thought nailed it, and I love stand up comedy so much.

我当时就想，我根本不想去重新演绎它。

I was like and I have no desire to try to redo it.

而且现在喜剧太庞大了，那些特别节目如此出色、极具电影感，根本没必要去拍一部虚构电影来讲述那些我们可以通过纪录片、纪实系列剧或真实节目直接观看的内容。

And also comedy is so massive right now, and and the specials are so great and cinematic right now that there's no reason to try to make a fictional movie about something that we can watch as a documentary or a docu series or a show that is authentic.

我当时就想，但我仍然非常希望以电影的方式捕捉它。

I was like, so but I still would really love to capture it cinematically.

那如果把它当作对比，电影讲的是他们两个人的故事呢？

So what if it's a foil and the movie's about the two of them?

因为这很有趣。

Because that's interesting.

是的。

Yes.

而且你太差了。

And you suck.

嗯，那是乔丹当时说的一个精彩场景，

Well, that was one of the great scenes where Jordan was like,

你很糟糕。

you're bad.

你真的很糟糕。

You're really bad.

这更多是关于单口喜剧本身，以及你在节目中提到的，做任何让你走出舒适区的事情。

And it's much more about just what what stand up comedy with anything, and you talk about this on your show, doing anything that puts you out of your comfort zone.

是的。

Yeah.

任何让你突破自我的事情，都会让你作为一个普通人变得更好。

Anything that pushes you, you're gonna you're gonna improve as a human being.

那整个事情的核心就是这个。

That was really what that that whole thing is about.

我只是热爱这种文化和世界，我觉得那里有太多具体的东西能让我在电影和故事层面感到兴奋。

And I just love the culture in the world, and I thought there's so much tangible stuff there for me to get excited about cinematically and story wise.

但其实，它本可以是任何事情。

But really, it's like it could have been anything.

嗯。

Yeah.

就是一些他从未做过的事情，让他把自己暴露出来，而通过不断去做，他逐渐变得越来越自在。

Just something that he'd never done that had he had puts himself out there, and that in doing it and doing it, he just sort of gets more comfortable.

你知道的。

You know?

然后话筒从支架上拿下来，他靠在了墙上。

And then the mic comes off the stand, and then he's leaning against the wall.

到了最后，影片的结构设计让他能够在片尾完成那个吸血鬼段子，那时他只是在表达自己内心的情感，因为他在这个环境中感到自在。

And by the end of it, and then the way it was structured, it allows him to do that vampire set at the end of the movie where all he's doing is exercising what he's feeling emotionally because he's comfortable in this setting.

嗯。

Yeah.

因为过去的他，在阁楼里和她争吵时，只会把所有情绪都憋在心里。

Because the old him, when he has that fight with her in the attic, he just woulda kept that all inside.

嗯。

Mhmm.

他在电影开头参加孩子集会时会变得呆滞，因为你根本不知道该如何应对这一切。

And he would have been catatonic at his kids assembly where we meet him in the beginning of the movie because you just don't know what to do with all that.

但如果你有一个出口，一种表达方式，没错。

But if you have an outlet, something expressive Yes.

你可以以一种健康的方式释放它。

You can you can, you know, exercise it in a healthy way.

没错。

Yeah.

所以，那正是这一部分的核心所在——单口喜剧和开放麦。

So that that's what that that's that really was the point of that whole part of it being stand up comedy and open mic.

你真正抓住了一个人第一次尝试时的状态。

What you really nailed is someone trying it for the first time.

你们真的把这一点把握得非常到位。

You you guys really nailed that.

你们真实地呈现了一个喜剧新手的样子。

You really nailed a beginner in comedy.

看起来非常真实。

Like, seemed completely realistic.

很好。

Great.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得这也是Kill Tony如此受欢迎的原因之一。

And, like, I think that's one of the reasons why Kill Tony is so popular.

是的。

Yes.

你知道，因为你能够看到。

You know, because you get to see.

是的。

Yes.

那种从未上过单口喜剧舞台的人的原始真实感——比如有人在麦迪逊广场花园、面对一万六千人的观众第一次登台

Can't that that raw reality of someone who has never done stand up before, like, there was people that went up at Madison Square Garden in front of 16,000 people that had never done

之前上过台。

stand up before.

伙计，伙计。

Dude, dude.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

那谁知道呢？

That's just just who knows?

别那样做。

Don't do that.

是的。

Yeah.

你本该在一个满是烟雾的房间里。

You should be in a fucking smoky room.

嗯，现在不怎么烟雾了，但得是个小得要命的房间，里面都是无动于衷的人，大家都在那儿炸场，你也得跟着炸。

Well, not smoky anymore, but a tiny fucking room where disinterested people, where everyone's bombing and you bomb to it.

这没什么大不了的。

It's not that big a deal.

对。

Right.

因为你可能有点潜力。

Because you might have some potential.

但如果你在一万六千人面前彻底炸了，那种痛苦，你可能永远都缓不过来。

But if you fucking bomb in front of 16,000 people, the pain of that, you may never recover.

再想想那种奇怪的感觉，因为你会通过音响听到自己回荡的声音。

Also just think about the odd like, because you're gonna hear your voice through the, you know, echoing.

这感觉不可能只是置身其中。

It's it's can't be just in it.

比如，我想那里会有回声。

Like, so there I imagine there's an echo.

所以你不仅搞砸了，还听到它在回响。

So you're not only bombing, but you're hearing it reverberate.

你其实感觉不到回声。

You don't really feel the echo.

你听不到回声，因为舞台上都有监听音箱，声音很平。

You don't hear the echo because you you have monitors on stage, so it's pretty flat.

好吧。

Okay.

但你从未听过自己的声音通过麦克风传出过，现在却要面对一万六千人这样做。

But the noise of your voice where you've never heard your voice into a microphone before ever

对。

Right.

而现在你站在一万六千人面前做这件事。

And now you're in front of 16,000 people doing it.

然后托尼坐在那里看着

And then Tony's sitting there looking at

你，而且

you, and

肖恩也在那里，我也在。

Shane's there, and I'm there.

这就像一场噩梦。

It's like a nightmare.

就像你正走进一场噩梦。

It's like you're you're walking into a nightmare.

那又怎样？

Well, what?

只是在做脱口秀

Just doing stand up

面对，比如，一群

in front of, like, a

像谢恩·吉利斯这样的家伙太疯狂了。

guy like Shane Gillis is crazy.

疯狂。

Crazy.

就坐在你旁边。

Sitting right next to you.

你从来没做过单口喜剧。

You've never done stand up.

你就要在一位场场售罄的喜剧演员旁边表演单口喜剧。

You're gonna do stand up right next to a guy who's selling out arenas.

这简直太疯狂了。

Like, that's nuts.

是啊。

Yeah.

那种感觉太疯狂了。

That feeling is nuts.

但观看它非常棒，因为你正在实时见证真实的反应。

But it's wonderful to watch because you're watching authentic reactions happening in real time.

是的。

Yes.

好吧。

Okay.

如果你的新年决心是彻底改变，成为全新的人，祝你好运。

If your New Year's resolution was change everything and be a new person, good luck.

所以，别再假装你会永远准备羽衣甘蓝或每天早晨进行冷水浴了，这里有一个真正现实的建议：AG1。

So instead of pretending you're going to meal prep kale forever or do morning cold plunges, here's one actually realistic thing, AG1.

AG1是一种日常健康饮品，有助于提升你的能量、肠道健康、免疫健康，并填补常见的营养缺口。

AG1 is a daily health drink that supports your energy, gut health, immune health, and helps fill common nutrient gaps.

每天早上只需将一勺倒入冷水中，就能开始一天。

Just one scoop in cold water each morning and you're off.

它含有超过75种维生素、矿物质、益生菌和全食物成分。

It's got over 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food ingredients in there.

所以，与其猜测自己是否需要益生菌或益生元，或者在十多种不同的药瓶和粉剂中挑选，你只需一勺，就能轻松开始一天。

So instead of guessing whether you need a probiotic or a prebiotic or sorting through 10 different bottles of pills and powders, You can just do one scoop and get on with your day.

这很棒，因为感觉像是成熟人士的选择，但这一次真的非常简单。

It's great because it feels like the grown up move, but for once it's actually really easy.

只需要三十秒左右，你就能感受到那种稳定的状态，为全天做好准备。

It takes like thirty seconds and you'll notice the steadiness that sets you up for the day.

不亢奋，不崩溃，只是充满正常人应有的能量。

Not wired, not crashing, just functional human being energy.

我多年来一直与AG1合作，如果你想要试试，前往drinkag1.com/jorogan，限时赠送免费的AG1邮差包和免费的AG1欢迎礼包，只需订购你的首份AG1订阅。

I partnered with AG1 for years and if you want to give it a try, head to drinkag1.com/jorogan and for a limited time you'll get a free AG1 duffel bag and free a g one welcome kit with your first a g one subscription order.

数量有限，仅限前往drinkag1.com/joerogan，或访问描述中的链接即可开始。

Only while supplies last, that's drinkag1.com/joerogan or visit the link in the description to get started.

它未经加工。

It's not processed.

它是你能吃到的最纯净的精神食物之一

It's it's as as clean a mental food as you're gonna

得到。

get.

这是真的。

It's true.

是的。

Yeah.

只是我觉得，人类真的很喜欢看某人刚开始做某件事时的样子。

It's just that we I think human beings really love seeing what it's like when someone starts out doing something.

因为很多人会有这样的想法：哦，也许我可以试试，或者也许我可以学弹吉他，或者也许我可以做那件事。

Because a lot of people have these ideas like, oh, maybe I could try that, or maybe I could learn how to play guitar, or maybe I could do that.

但一开始起步并表现得很糟糕，对很多人来说都令人恐惧。

But it's just the getting going and sucking at something in the beginning is terrifying for people.

所以当他们看到有人尝试时，他们会想：看，他开始了。

So when they see someone just try it, I think they're like, oh, look at him go.

看，他开始了。

Look at him go.

他正在外面做这件事。

He's out there doing it.

没错。

Right.

他骑在自行车上。

He's on the bike.

他在移动。

He's moving.

你知道吗？

You know?

就像你看到真实的人在尝试他们从未做过的事情，这让人兴奋。

It's like you see actual people that are trying to do something that they've never done before, and it's exciting.

而且，我还想谈谈其中的技艺，你知道，这需要大量的努力。

And, also, the the the one thing I wanted to touch on is the craft of it all, you know, that it's that it takes a lot of work.

我知道这不仅仅是写作，你知道，当她说那一点时，她会说，你得写，然后继续前进。

I know that it's not you know, just, you know, the writing, you know, when she says that one point, she's like, you gotta write, you know, and keep going up.

我认为大多数人，至少在我开始去之前，都不知道人们一晚上会上去三四次。

And I think most people, at least I didn't know before I started going, that people go up three or four times a night.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我当时并不理解，所以我觉得有必要传达这一点。

Like, I didn't under and so that was something I thought it was important to convey.

就是所需的敬业精神。

Just the work ethic that's needed.

纽约在这方面真的很棒，而且一直都有这样的文化。

Well, New York is really great for that, and it's always had a culture of that.

这里一直有着人们从一个俱乐部跳到另一个俱乐部、一场接一场表演的文化，因为曼哈顿有太多俱乐部了。

It's had a culture of guys hopping from club to club and doing set to set because there's so many clubs in in Manhattan.

所以那些家伙，我记得听说过有个人一晚上表演了八场甚至九场。

So guys were just you know, I think the most guy I ever heard one guy did eight eight or nine sets a night.

哇。

Wow.

就像那样，那里有那么多俱乐部。

Like, they're just like that that's how many clubs there are.

所以你到处赶场。

So you just hop all over the place.

你晚上八点就开始了。

You start your night at, like, 8PM.

是的。

Yeah.

在 downtown。

Downtown.

downtown 有很多地方可以去。

There's a ton downtown that you can go up to yeah.

到处跑。

Go all over the place.

我们现在这儿也有很多这种情形。

It's we've got a lot of that here now.

现在奥斯汀的俱乐部太多了。

There's just so many clubs in Austin now.

我的意思是，当我们去那里时，你打造的东西简直太棒了。

I mean, when we went there, what you built is incredible.

谢谢。

Thank you.

那种文化，方方面面。

The culture, everything.

你知道吗，我给一个已经十五年没表演单口喜剧的人看了这部电影，他说你们唯一搞错的就是文化。

You know, I showed the movie to a stand up who hadn't done stand up in, like, fifteen years, and he said the only thing that for sure you got wrong is the culture.

我问：‘你什么意思？’

I was like, what do you mean?

他说：‘不，不是这样的。',

He's like, no.

人们没那么友善。

People aren't that nice.

我当时想，其实你错了。

And I was like, actually, I think you're wrong.

我当时想，情况变了。

I was like, it's changed.

我当时想，现在人们都更支持了。

I was like, people are supportive now.

这取决于你去的地方。

It's in where you go.

有些地方并不太支持。

There's places where it's not very supportive.

真的吗？

Really?

但至少，我以前在2000年代初常去地窖。

But at least, like, I used to go to the cellar, like, in early two thousands.

感觉和现在不一样了。

Didn't feel like it does now.

对。

Right.

我觉得阿里·沙菲尔对此改变很大。

Well, I think Ari Shafir changed that a lot.

他把洛杉矶的文化带到了纽约，嗯。

He brought, like, the culture of LA to New York Mhmm.

在那里，大家彼此更加支持。

Where you're, like, more supportive of each other.

过去总是你死我活，因为最初在九十年代，一切都围绕着试镜情景喜剧展开。

It was always, like, dog against dog because it really the way it all started out was in the nineteen nineties, it was all about everyone was auditioning for a sitcom.

对。

And Right.

如果我和你去试镜情景喜剧，天啊。

If you and I were if if I showed up to audition for a sitcom, like, fuck.

布拉德利来了。

Bradley's here.

他也在争取同一个角色。

He's going for the same part.

去他的吧。

Fuck that guy.

你知道，那是因为那可能会改变你的一生。

You know, it was because it was like that could change your life.

对。

Right.

如果你拿到了那个情景喜剧，突然间你就火了，而我呢，还在为付房租发愁，天天吃泡面，那个机会本该是我的。

If you got that sitcom, now all a sudden, you're fucking huge, and I'm still, like, struggling to pay my rent eating ramen, and it could have been me.

对。

Right.

所以九十年代出现了这种深深的怨恨，因为每个人心里都想着，那根胡萝卜的尽头就是《今夜秀》或者，你知道的，主持一档深夜节目，如果你能有自己的深夜秀，天啊。

And so there's this, like, serious resentment that happens in the nineteen nineties because everybody like, the the golden carrot at the end of the stick was The Tonight Show or, you know, hosting a late if you could get your own late night show, oh my god.

他成功了。

He made it.

他是《今夜秀》的主持人。

He's a host of The Tonight Show.

那是只有一个人能获得的殊荣。

That was, the thing that only one person could get.

然后还有情景喜剧。

And then there was, like, the sitcom.

如果真的成功了，他们会围绕你打造一部情景喜剧，你还能拿到开发合约。

Like, if it really worked out, they'd make a sitcom around you, you'd get a development deal.

所以有些人会从心理上背后捅刀子。

So there was people would psychologically backstab people.

人们会在对方上台前说他们的坏话。

People would talk shit to people before they went on stage.

他们会试图破坏对方的心理状态。

They would try to hijack their fucking mind.

对。

Right.

就在他们真正开始之前，气氛很黑暗。

Right before they like, really, it was dark.

太疯狂了。

Crazy.

然后互联网出现了。

And then the Internet came around.

于是互联网到来后，人们不再是你的竞争对手，他们不仅成了你的朋友和同事，还变成了资源。

And then the Internet, instead of people being your competitors, they became not just your friends and not just your colleagues, but also an asset.

因为如果你在做播客，让你那些搞笑的朋友参与进来，你的播客就会更好。

Because if you're doing a podcast and you've got your funny friends on, then your podcast is better.

对。

Right.

然后如果你宣传他们的播客，他们的播客变好了，你再去他们的播客做嘉宾，这也会更好，所有人都能从彼此的成功中获益。

And then if you tell people about their podcast and their podcast is better, and then you go on their podcast and that's better, and everybody benefits from everybody else doing well.

所以整个系统完全逆转了。

So it became it completely reversed the system.

然后，它变得更加注重互相支持。

And then it became much more about being supportive of each other.

接着，大家都渐渐意识到，嘿。

And then everybody kinda realized, like, hey.

当我们都在享受乐趣时，事情要有趣得多。

It's way more fun when we're all having fun.

你知道的。

You know?

自从电视节目逐渐衰落，情景喜剧也随着真人秀的兴起而没落。

And since the television thing kinda died off, the sitcom thing kinda died off with reality shows.

之后，重点更多地放在了将片段上传到互联网上，接着出现了Netflix特别节目，不再只是人人都想争取一个HBO特别节目。

And then it was really just more about getting clips up on the Internet and about getting and then there was Netflix special, so it wasn't just everybody trying to get an HBO special.

特别节目多了很多。

There was way more specials.

然后你可以直接将特别节目上传到YouTube，从而形成了一种更加协作、支持的环境。

And then you could just upload specials to YouTube and became this way more collaborative, supportive environment.

然后阿里·沙菲尔把我们在洛杉矶逐渐建立起来的这种氛围带到了纽约，很多那里的家伙都追随了这种做法。

And then Ari Shafir took that that we had kind of, like, established in LA and brought that to New York, and a lot of those guys ran with it.

没错。

Yeah.

我的意思是，这才是正确的方向。

I mean, that's the way to go.

人们总是说，你知道，顶端还有很多空间。

People always say, you know, there's a lot of room at the top.

没错。

Yeah.

空间很多。

There's a lot.

单口喜剧领域确实有很多空间。

There's a lot of room in stand up for sure.

你知道？

You know?

而且每个人都有自己的一条道，即使在这条大高速公路上。

And it's like and everybody has their own lane even within this big highway.

嗯。

Uh-huh.

而且每个人都想和别人在一起。

And and everybody wants to be with other people.

谁真的愿意长期当一个独行侠呢？

Who wants to be a lone wolf, really, for a long period of time?

是的。

Yeah.

有几个。

There's a few.

外面确实有那么几个，但他们心理都崩溃了。

There's a few out there, but they're all psychologically destroyed.

他们一团糟。

They're just a mess.

对。

Yeah.

谁不想有朋友呢？

Who doesn't wanna have friends?

太疯狂了。

It's crazy.

对。

Yeah.

我不明白。

I don't get it.

但你知道，我觉得你们在电影里精准地捕捉到了文化的这一方面，这是一个很真实的方面。

But, you know, it's that aspect of the culture I felt like in the movie you guys nailed, which is a realistic aspect.

很好。

Good.

对一群人之间互相调侃的真实写照。

A realistic portrayal of what it's like where a bunch of people just they were all busting each other's balls.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

嗯。

Yeah.

你可以既支持对方，又保持诚实。

You could be supportive and still honest.

就是这一点。

That was the thing.

并不缺乏诚实或批评。

There's no lack of honesty or criticism.

只是这种批评并不是希望你垮掉。

It's just it's not done with the hope that you your your demise.

是的。

Yes.

这就是区别。

That's the difference.

嗯。

Yeah.

我觉得九十年代毒害了很多喜剧演员。

I think the nineties, like, poisoned a lot of comedians.

它毒害了他们，因为它让你产生了一种想法，认为整个事情只是达到目的的手段，而那个目的就是一部情景喜剧。

It poisoned them because it gave you this idea that the whole thing was about a means to an end, and that end was a sitcom.

每个人都觉得你只需要搞到一部情景喜剧。

And everybody thought you just had to get a sitcom.

必须搞到一部情景喜剧。

Gotta get a sitcom.

那就是所有人都在努力追求的目标。

And that was what everybody was working towards.

有些人整个表演都是围绕着一个可以卖给电视台的 persona 来打造的。

There's people that were developing their entire act based around a around a persona that they could sell to the networks.

你在拍情景喜剧之前就做单口喜剧吗？

Were you doing stand up before your sitcom?

是的。

Yes.

我明白了。

I see.

好吧。

Okay.

所以事情是这样发生的吗？

So is that how that happened?

有人看到你，然后说，嘿，你得试试这个节目？

Did someone see you and then they were like, oh, you gotta you gotta try this show?

是的。

Yeah.

我运气好得离谱。

I got I got ridiculously lucky.

你知道，很多人说，我为了上一部情景喜剧付出了很多努力。

Like, you know, a lot of people say, oh, I work really hard to get on a sitcom.

不是的。

Nope.

不是。

No.

我就是运气好。

I got lucky.

我做了MTV。

I did the MTV.

我根本没有任何当演员的志向。

I never had any aspirations to act at all.

我做了MTV的半小时喜剧节目。

I did MTV half hour comedy hour.

我签了一个开发合约，突然间我就搬到了洛杉矶，还出演了一部情景喜剧。

I got a development deal, and all of a sudden, I'm in living in LA, and I'm on a sitcom.

这一切在几个月内就发生了。

And it happened in a couple

几个月。

months.

情景喜剧。

Sitcom.

我先演了一部糟糕的情景喜剧。

I was on a bad one first.

我演了一部糟糕的，嗯哼。

I was on a bad one Uh-huh.

叫《Hardball》。

Called Hardball.

那是福克斯电视台的一部情景喜剧，我饰演一名棒球运动员。

It was a sitcom on Fox where I played a baseball player.

那个节目被取消了，不幸的是，我以为它会火起来，因为我太傻了。

That show got canceled, and, unfortunately, I thought it was gonna go because I was retarded.

我当时大概25岁、26岁。

I was, you know, 25 years old, 26 years old.

我觉得：哦，这下要火了。

And I was like, oh, this is gonna take off.

我该租个公寓了。

I should get an apartment.

于是我租了一套公寓，然后我就去

So I had a lease on an apartment, and I went

找所有人，我敢肯定当时也有人跟你说它会火。

to Everybody I'm sure people were telling you that it was gonna take off too.

哦，是啊。

Oh, yeah.

对。

Yeah.

当然。

Of course.

每个人都相信。

Everybody believed it.

是的。

Yeah.

你肯定会赢得艾美奖。

You're gonna win an Emmy.

嗯，这个

Well, the

制作这部剧的人，杰夫·马丁和凯文·柯兰，他们曾参与《辛普森一家》的制作。

guys who made it, Jeff Martin and Kevin Curran, they worked on the Simpsons.

他们还参与过《已婚人士》。

They worked on married with children.

他们非常出色。

They were really good.

但后来福克斯的人来了，直接把它毁了。

But then the Fox people came in and just ruined it.

比如，高管们进来，带了一堆庸才，把这部剧彻底毁了。

Like, the executives came in, and they brought in a bunch of hacks and just ruined the show.

你做这个过程开心吗？

Did you have fun doing it?

哦，当然开心。

Oh, yeah.

我那时候

I had

我其实挺开心的，但我也很想念喜剧。

a I had a kind of good time, but I also missed comedy.

我怀念纽约的人，也想离开那里。

I missed New York people, and I wanted to get out of there.

我当时就想，我得回纽约。

I was like, I gotta get back to New York.

这破地方真让人受不了。

Fuck this place.

一结束我就想，去他的。

As soon as it was over, but I was like, fuck.

我租了个房子。

I got this lease.

所以我租了一年的房，然后我得到了一个开发项目。

So I had a lease for a year, and then I got a development were

那你那时候在洛杉矶吗？

you in LA at that time?

哦，我只在洛杉矶待了几个月。

Oh, I was only in LA for, like, a few months.

哇。

Wow.

是啊。

Yeah.

所以我搬过去参加这个节目。

So I moved out there to do the show.

对。

Right.

我几乎立刻就签了租约。

I I got a lease, like, almost immediately.

然后我在那里待了几个月。

And then I was out there for a few months.

节目被取消了。

Show get canceled.

然后我拿到了一个为NBC开发项目的合同。

And then I got a development deal to do something for NBC.

他们打算制作我的情景喜剧。

And they were gonna do my own sitcom.

但在我们开发过程中，他们说：嘿。

And but as we were developing it, they said, hey.

我们正在做一个节目。

There's a show that we're doing.

它叫《新闻电台》。

It's called NewsRadio.

它已经被选中了。

It's already been picked up.

我们已经拍了试播集，但撤换了一名试播集中的演员，我们想让你来试镜这个角色。

We already did the pilot, but we fired one peep one person from the pilot, and we want you to read for this.

我就这样登上了《新闻电台》。

And that's how I got on NewsRanket.

事情就是这样发生的。

That's how it happened.

这简直是我有史以来第二次参加试镜。

Like, that was this only second show I ever auditioned for ever.

哇。

Wow.

所以我有一档节目，是关于亚伦·金汉斯的。

So I had one show That is a big on Aaron Ginkhans.

你的经历非常独特。

You had a very unique track.

纯属运气。

Dumb luck.

太疯狂了。

That's nuts.

偶然撞上的。

Stumbled into it.

百分之百。

A 100%.

这我可不敢居功。

I can't take any credit for it.

纯属运气。

Dumb luck.

太棒了。

Amazing.

只是我能在试镜中保持镇定，而我根本没有表演经验。

Just my ability to keep it together in auditions and not not crack with no acting experience at all.

但这并不是我渴望的东西，所以它并没有像对很多人那样带来那种压力。

But it was just not it wasn't something that I aspired to, so it it didn't have the kind of pressure that it probably had for a lot of people.

它可能也没有同样的关联性。

It probably didn't have the same kind of relation too.

对。

Right.

比如，我假设如果这不是你真正想要的，那它只是很有趣，但你并不觉得‘这感觉对了’。

Like, put I assume if it's not something you really wanted, it was like it was fun, but you weren't like, this is this is like this feels right.

不。

No.

我当时的感觉是：哦，我要赚钱了。

What it felt like is, oh, I'm gonna get money.

我要赚点钱。

I'm gonna get some money.

嗯。

Yeah.

那就有问题了。

Then something's wrong.

我觉得出问题了。

Was like Something's wrong.

我觉得这不错。

I was like, this is good.

我要赚钱，而且不用为钱发愁。

I'm gonna get money, and I don't have to worry about money.

我就是这么想的。

That's how I thought about it.

对。

Right.

当我这么做时，我心想：哇。

And then when I was doing it, I was like, wow.

我真是太幸运了。

I'm so lucky.

我是怎么 stumble 到这里和菲尔·哈特曼在一起的呢？

Like, how did I stumble on I'm here with Phil Hartman.

这太疯狂了。

This is crazy.

太疯狂了，老兄。

Crazy, dude.

戴夫·福利和

Dave Foley and

史蒂文·鲁特和

Steven Root and

沃伦·蒂尔尼。

Warren Tierney.

这简直太疯狂了。

Like, this is nuts.

是啊。

Yeah.

当时是萨尔金做了那个

It was a And Sorkin did that

没错。

That's right.

萨尔金还做过另一部剧，主角是杰夫·丹尼尔斯。

Sorkin did that other other show show with with Jeff Jeff Daniels.

丹尼尔斯。

Daniels.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

确实是这样。

It was Yeah.

那真的很有趣。

It was a lot of fun.

但那时候，每个人都在为此努力。

So but but back in those days, like, everybody was working towards that.

幸运的是，我本来就拥有这些。

And, fortunately, I already had that.

所以我的目标就是继续练习单口喜剧，专心打磨我的单口表演。

So my thing was just, like, continue to work on stand up and just work on my stand up.

如果这一切都消失了，我就回去当个脱口秀演员。

And if this all goes away, I'll just go back to being a comic.

在洛杉矶表演单口喜剧。

And doing stand up in LA.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Right.

所以，那是个新情况吗？

So and and so that was new?

那就是

That's

嗯。

Yeah.

那就是我这辈子见过最恶劣的背后捅刀子的地方。

And that's where I encountered, like, the worst backstabbing I've ever seen in my life.

所以你从纽约来，那里没这种感觉吗？

So you're coming from New York where you didn't feel that?

那边没那么明显。

You didn't feel it as much.

对。

Right.

你知道，虽然说很多烂话，但那挺有意思的。

You know, you felt like a lot of shit talking, but that was fun.

你知道，如果你演砸了， guys 就会取笑你。

You know, guys would make fun if you bombed.

对。

Right.

他们当时在

They were doing

当面取笑你。

it to your face.

对。

Yeah.

他们当面取笑你，那环境更像是一种疯狂、搞笑的氛围

They were doing it to your face, and it was a more, like it was just a more ball busting, like, silly environment

对。

Right.

在纽约。

In New York.

没人觉得在纽约能出名。

It wasn't no one thought they were gonna get famous in New York.

你知道，他们只是这样。

You know, they were all just Right.

只是。

Just

做性事。

doing sex.

但在洛杉矶，每个人都想着能拿到一部情景喜剧。

But in LA, everybody had this idea to get a sitcom.

到了九十年代，他们开始提供开发合约。

And then in the nineteen nineties, they started giving out development deals.

那才是大事。

That was the big thing.

你会拿到二十万，甚至五十万美元的发展资金，然后突然间你有了这么多钱，开始挥霍起来。

You get, like, a 200,000, half $1,000,000 development deal, And then all of a sudden, you have all this money and you're living it.

所以每个人都朝着这个目标努力。

And so everybody was working towards that.

于是，人们不再只是为了成为单口喜剧演员而努力，而是把单口喜剧变成了实现目标的手段。

So it became instead of, like, people working towards just being a stand up, it became stand up was a means to an end.

然后，其他所有这些人，都成了你实现目标路上的障碍。

And then all these other people, they were in your way to get that goal.

天哪。

Jesus.

你的经纪人也告诉你，你必须这么做，因为他们也想要那笔钱。

And then your agent was telling you that's what you had to do and every because they wanted that money too.

所以它

So it

一切都是在引导人们去追求

was all, like, programming people to go after the

情景喜剧。

sitcom.

喜剧圈里的文化完全不一样。

Completely different culture in the stand up community there.

没错。

Exactly.

但后来这一切都消失了。

But then that all went away.

一切都消失了。

It all went away.

比如，追求情景喜剧就像追求业余无线电事业一样。

Like, this the the idea of working towards a sitcom is not it's like working towards a career in ham radio.

这玩意儿彻底消失了。

Like, it's it's fucking went away.

当你说到阿里改变了它，他是怎么做到的？

When you say that Ari changed it, how did he do it?

因为他把洛杉矶的文化带到了纽约。

Because he brought the LA culture to New York.

阿里从洛杉矶搬回纽约，我的意思是，我在纽约认识的每个人都总是说，

Ari moved from LA back to New York, and he I mean, everybody that I talked to in New York is always like,

你们这么做是错的。

you guys are doing it wrong.

而且人们都听他的。

Like And people listen to him.

是的。

Yeah.

因为他已经成名了，而且是个非常出色的喜剧演员。

Well, because he was established, and he was a really good comic.

他们就觉得，

And they were like,