477：布·谢克斯奈德谈综合力量与全面运动发展艺术

Bu，很高兴你能再次参加节目。我一直很享受我们的对话，也很期待这次交流，伙计。

Bu, it is great to have you back on the show. Always love our conversations, and looking forward to this one, man.

在你的播客上总是度过愉快时光，自从收到邀请我就一直期待着这次对话，所以谢谢你。

Always had great times on your podcast, and I'm look I've been looking forward to this one since the invitation, so thank you.

是啊。我之前和Bob Thurnhofer有过一次很棒的对谈，他不久前刚上过播客，聊的是关于基础力量的话题。我不记得是在为他准备播客材料时还是之后，但我总是不断看到你撰写的基础力量训练资料。而且我最近还在整理地下室的旧DVD——说来好笑，DVD现在也算古董了。

Yeah. I had a great conversation with Bob Thurnhofer. He was on the podcast not too long ago, and he was talking about general strength, and I don't remember if it was in researching material for the podcast with him or in the aftermath, but I always just keep coming across the general strength work that you've written up. And I also, I was going through old DVDs in my basement. It's funny that DVDs are old too.

现在谁还用DVD啊？我有四张你的光盘，关于跳远和基础力量训练的内容。有趣的是我二十多岁收到这些时，不知为何没立即观看——可能当时忙于招募工作——这不像我的作风。结果它们就积灰了，直到41岁的现在才打开观看，然后发现：这简直是教练必看的第一课，全是基础力量的精髓。

Like, who uses DVDs anymore? And I have about four from, you have a long jump, jumps, and then you have an inventory. It's like all the general strength work. And it's funny because when I got that, I think it was in my late twenties, for some reason, I didn't watch it right away. I don't know if I was too busy with recruiting.

那些都是人类最基本却至关重要的运动能力，我们本该都掌握或至少具备这种能力。所以在探讨基础力量前，我想先请教：从九十年代更偏向体育教育的时期到现在，你如何看待这类训练方式的演变？你觉得如今运动员的准备方式或我们对训练基础的认知有变化吗？

It would not be like me not to watch it, but it somehow sat and gathered dust, and then I opened it, and I finally watched it here at age 41, and I was like, this is the best. Like, every coach, this should be the first thing you watch, because it's it's all the general strength.

嗯。

Mhmm.

（接上文）就是那些我们都应该做到、或者至少应该有能力完成的基础人体运动模式。因此我想先问，作为讨论基础力量的引子：从九十年代更偏向体育教育的时期到现在，你如何看待这类训练方式的演变？你觉得如今运动员的准备方式，或我们对这个训练维度的认知有变化吗？

It's it's just the basic athletic human movements that we should all be doing, or we should be able to do, or or be able to generate capacity. And so what I wanted to ask, as a prelude to talking about general strength, is how have you seen the wave of that type of activity over time, from the nineties, and maybe you could say more physical education type. I feel like physical education was more dominant back in the day to what we're seeing now. Have you seen a difference with the way that athletes are prepared or that that we look at that aspect of preparation?

确实如此。毫无疑问，你知道的，学校里体育教育的缺失，年轻人缺乏自由玩耍的机会，诸如此类的情况，导致人们在进入更高水平的训练场所时，准备明显不足，问题却更多。不过我想澄清一点，我进行这类活动的原因，与其说是为了弥补不足，不如说——即使你各方面都发展得很完美，具备所有条件，我依然会带你进行基础力量训练。因为我坚信，这是训练计划中不可或缺的核心环节，它能解决你在其他地方无法彻底解决的问题。

Yeah. No doubt. You know, the absence of physical education in schools, the absence of free play with young people and things of that nature, people definitely, arrive to higher performance training venues with significantly less preparation and significantly more baggage. And, I wanna make it clear, though, that the reason why I do those types of activities is not so much because of catch up needs, but if you showed up perfectly developed and everything and had pee and all those things, I would still do general strength with you because I feel so strongly in the key corners of the program that it cleans up that you just can't really accomplish anywhere else.

没错。关于基础力量训练，能否详细说说其中的关键要素？我是说，虽然DVD内容已经很全面了。对于没接触过这类训练的人，我强烈推荐他们去看看你之前的演示视频和相关资料。比如药球训练、跨栏灵活性这些重点项目。

Yeah. And with the general strength, could you just go through some of the key rocks that fit in those batteries? I I mean, the DVD is pretty extensive. And for anyone who hasn't seen that type of work, I would definitely I I put out links to check out, like, presentations you've done and things like that on it. But some of those big like, medicine balls, hurdle mobility.

能不能具体解释下基础力量和体能建设中的这些核心内容？好让大家有个基本概念。

Like, if you could just explain some of those bigger rocks of the general strength and capacity building, just so people are familiar.

好的。你提到的这些我称之为综合训练，老实说这个名字并不完美，但多年来我一直这么称呼它。本质上，这类训练对神经肌肉系统的要求不高，不以速度或爆发力为核心。

Yeah. What you're talking about is what I call general training, and I call it general training because I don't really have a better name for it, to be honest with you, but it's been the term I've used for years and years. Basically, it's training that isn't really demanding from a neuromuscular standpoint. It's not speed based. It's not power based.

它甚至算不上纯粹的力量训练。但它的核心价值在于提升动作质量。主要包括：基础力量训练（各种自重循环训练，有简单也有复杂的）、药球训练（注意不是高强度抛掷，而是多样化的药球运用方式），还有你提到的跨栏灵活性训练——因为运动员在跨越障碍时会做出各种动作。此外还包括健身房循环训练（非传统力量项目如奥运举重/深蹲/推举等，而是针对小肌群、单关节/单肢体的功能性训练），这些都属于这个范畴。

It's not really truly strength based either. But what it does, it is a way to develop or improve movement quality is what it ultimately is. Know? It consists predominantly of, what I call general strength work, which is body weight circuits of different types, some very simple, some very complicated, Medicine ball work and medicine ball circuits of diverse types. To be clear, not high intensity medicine ball heaves, but different a variety of different exercises that use the med ball in a lot of diverse ways, and hurdle mobility, as you mentioned, is kind of a part of that as well, because you're putting athletes through diverse movements as they negotiate those hurdles, and even weight room circuits, not the true strength building activities like Olympic lifts and squat moves and press moves and things like that, but the smaller muscle group lifts, the more diverse lifts, the more functional lifts, single joint, single, limb lifts, those types of things fit into that category as well.

当你专注于这些训练时，实际上是在让运动员体验极其丰富的动作模式——这正是他们真正需要的。很多人误以为综合训练只是完成健身指标，但它的意义远不止于此。无论你是否意识到，你真正训练的是动作质量。人体有相位肌和张力肌：相位肌负责运动表现中的大幅动作，而张力肌则像导航员——它们维持着整个系统的正常运作。

And if you invest in those things, what you find is that you end up subjecting athletes to a very diverse array of movement experiences and such, and this is what they ultimately need. You know, when people look at general training, a lot of times they just, like, oh, we're checking the fitness box or something along those lines, but it's really way, way, way more than that, because what you're really training there, whether you realize it or not, is movement quality. You know, you have phasic and tonic muscles. You know, phasic muscles are the ones that are pretty much responsible for the big movements that we employ in performance, but the tonic muscles, they're kind of like the the guides, so to speak. You know, they kind of keep everything in working order, so to speak.

就像我去保龄球馆时，常看到隔壁球道的小孩用防滚沟的充气挡板——张力肌的作用就类似于此，它们确保相位肌保持正确方向。通过这种训练，你能建立相位肌与张力肌的平衡，从而显著提升动作质量。我职业生涯中发现，许多莫名奇妙的运动损伤，连最聪明的治疗师都找不出原因。但只要进行综合干预，让运动员接触多样的动作体验，张力肌就会逐渐发挥作用。

You know, when I go to a bowling alley every once in a while, there's a little child bowling on the lane next to me, and they put those, things in the gutters, those inflatable balloons in the gutters so that kids don't roll gutter balls and learn not to like bowling. Well, my point is is that's what the phasic muscle I'm sorry, that's what the tonic muscles kind of do is they kind of keep phasic muscles directed properly and such. So what you're doing is you're developing phasic tonic balance in that respect, and you get so much better movement quality. And I've just found throughout my whole career that so many injuries are related to really weird, movement issues that you can't identify, and even the smartest therapists can't figure it out. But if you just do general intervention and subject athletes to a wide variety of different moving experiences, then the tonic muscles kind of start doing their job.

动作的多样性意味着我们完全不会出现过度使用综合征或重复性动作综合征。因此你可以在几乎零风险的情况下完成训练量。正因如此，一切都会自然而然地改善，许多伤病和症状都会因为这样的投入而得到缓解。最重要的是，这完全没有风险，绝对安全。是的。

The diversity of movement means we don't have any chance of overuse syndromes or repetitive movement syndromes. So you're accomplishing volume with practically zero risk. And as a result of that, everything just kind of falls into place, and so many injuries and syndromes are just alleviated because of the investment there. And on top of all that, there's no risk, and it's totally safe. Yeah.

我喜欢这个说法——答案就在自然中。我认为我们对自然的理解应该更宏观些，就像运动本身。就像孩子们在操场上玩耍，进行各种丰富的动作活动。有时我们过于微观地看待事物，或把事情非黑即白地划分。我甚至想到那些常规力量训练日，比如高低强度系统：周一周三周五安排高强度冲刺跳跃训练，其他日子可以说是体能日，主要提升运动容量。

I like the term, the answers are found in nature, and I think we tend to, the way I think of nature is more of like a macro, like a it's movement. It's it's like kids playing on the playground and doing a lot of different movement rich activities. And I think we sometimes get so micro with things or make things so black and white. And I was even thinking about, like, those general strength days, like a high low system where you have your big sprint and jump days on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and then your other days are like, you could say they're the fitness days. You're just getting some capacity.

很多人对查理·弗朗西斯高低强度训练法的理解可能还停留在冲刺与节奏跑交替的阶段。但查理其实非常重视全面身体准备（GPP）和循环训练，他设计过很酷的体能循环项目。如果看待事物过于非黑即白，就会错过构成丰富运动体验的所有细节动作。

And I think a lot of people maybe that's left over from how people think about Charlie Francis' work, the high low, with the sprinting. You do sprints and then tempo, and sprints and tempo. But Charlie was a big GPP and circuits guy. He's got some really cool fitness circuit activities as well. But that, yeah, that's just one of those things where I think if you just if you look too black and white, you miss all the movement that goes into that rich experience.

就像你说的运动艺术与身体抗伤能力的关系——这不只是关注局部组织或等长收缩。最近我在尝试融合不同训练方式，比如使用这种红色平衡圆盘（3.6美元就能买到）。这是个底部带凸起的硬木圆盘，用它做单腿画圈训练后，我的足部和跟腱感觉明显改善。

And to your point with, it's kinda like the art of movement and how that fits in with being resilient. It's not just, it's not only, okay, here's the tissue, here's the isometric. And I think those are great, but one thing I've been doing recently for myself in kinda merging worlds is I like these red balance discs. You can get a full $3.60. It's like a wooden circle with a little knob in the bottom, and it's pretty hard.

这个圆盘并不柔软。当我单脚站立在上面做画圈动作时，能感受到完整的360度运动轨迹，这是动作与负荷的结合。

It's not soft. And I find if I do a lot of circles with that, I step in it with one leg and do a lot of circles, my feet and Achilles tend to feel better. And it's not just one thing. It's it's it's full three sixty motion. It's motion plus load.

如果在此基础上使用哈默器械或史密斯机这类稳定但能施加阻力的设备，就形成了动作与强度的完美结合——这可能是最高效的康复训练方式。所有要素都集中在一处：既有负荷，又包含各种微动作。

But then if I take that and I load it on, like, a hammer strength or a Smith machine, something that's stable but lets me really push into that, so it's like movement plus intensity, man, it's like the most efficient thing for that rehab. It's like all the stuff is in one spot. Know, I get loading. Get all sorts of little movements in there, Yeah, and

正想说，你的发现正是我多年来倡导的理念。关于基础力量训练，虽然因为年过六旬常被归为守旧派，但我的认知要深刻得多。我称之为普适性干预——当出现足部、跟腱或髂胫束等问题时，顶尖专家或许能精准定位问题源头，但多数人做不到，专家也未必次次成功。前几天和加拿大短跑教练交流，他们最优秀的选手出现跟腱问题时，我通过视频发现...

was gonna say, what you've discovered is what I've kind of preached for years and years. You know, when it comes to general strength and these types of things, because I'm in you know, because I'm deep into my sixties, I kinda get put in the old school box, you know, and whatever, and, and such, but it's really deeper than that, and what I've discovered and I've always invested in is what I call generalized interventions. You know, when you have a particular problem, whether it be a foot or an Achilles or an IT band or whatever the case, really, really smart people can figure out maybe where it's coming from and have a direct targeted intervention, but a lot of us can't, and even some of the smart people fail there sometimes. So general interventions tend to to benefit. You know, I was talking the other day with a, Canadian sprint coach, and one of their very best, sprinters was, having some Achilles issues, and he sent me video.

我注意到的是，就在她的脚触地前，股骨发生了非常剧烈的外旋，我始终不明白原因。我咨询了多位治疗师，仍无法找出缘由。但我所做的只是建议这位男士，看，这里有一系列单腿支撑的旋转练习。你知道的，尽管放手去做这些动作，可以说是凭直觉。我们清楚问题所在。

And what I noticed was that just before the foot hit the ground, there was a really violent external rotation of her femur, and I couldn't figure out why. I called therapists, couldn't figure out why. But what I did was I just suggested to this guy, look, here are all these rotational exercises in single support. You know, just go ahead and just start doing those, you know, just on a hutch, so to speak. You know, we know that's the problem.

长话短说，经过短短几次训练后，据他反馈女孩已无大碍。接着我问，她做动作时看起来如何？他说，她完全不得要领，东倒西歪的。关键在于，她的旋转能力实在太差才引发了这些问题。尽管至今我们仍不清楚具体病因，但广义上的旋转干预确实治愈了她。

Well, to make a long story short, after just a few bouts of it, the girl was fine, he reports. And then I asked, well, how'd she look doing them? He says, of she was totally incompetent, falling down and everything. So the point is, is that she was so bad rotationally that this stuff was triggered. And even though we still to this date don't know exactly what the issue was, we know that rotational intervention in a general sense fixed her.

所以我的观点是，这些干预措施往往不需要极度精准，这正是基础体能训练的意义所在。药球训练等基础练习就像用宽刷作画——它们通过提升动作质量，从整体上增强了抗损伤能力。

So my point is is that all of these interventions don't have to be ultra targeted quite often, and that's what general strength is. You you you're, and med ball work do. They you're painting with a broad brush as far as injury resiliency is concerned because of these movement quality improvements.

没错。这个概念对我启发很大，特别是与亚伦·坎托尔的交流让我茅塞顿开。作为推崇游戏化训练的教练，他在成人运动课程（或许该称为动作训练）中，总把初始门槛设得非常低。他深谙避免过度复杂化的艺术，正如你提到那个女孩的例子，即使动作笨拙也能享受运动乐趣。

Yeah. That's a concept that has been really helpful for me is this came from this really hit home with Aaron Kantor and conversations with him. He's a big play based coach. But when he has classes or this movement training, I guess you'd call it for adults, he always starts with a very low bar to clear. He's very conscious of how not making things so complex and micro that you don't just get to enjoy moving, even if you're bad at it, like you said with that girl.

运动员需要跨越的门槛如此简单，他们完全是在摸索中前进。我特别欣赏这种通用原则——我们无需多么聪明才能运用，但运动员身体本身的智慧就能将其发扬光大。嗯。这正是我最近在思考的简约训练理念。

The bar for the athlete to clear is so simple that they are feeling their way through it. And I really like the idea of those general principles that we don't have to be that smart to employ, but the brilliance of the athlete's body can run with it and be Yeah. Really you're Mhmm. Yeah. That's been something I've been thinking about a lot with simple training.

核心理念就是：对，让运动员的身体展现其卓越本能。

It's that idea of, yeah, let the athlete's body be brilliant.

我见过不少动作协调性极差的人尝试基础训练。其美妙之处在于，由于强度和风险系数极低，即使技术动作出错也完全无碍。有些笨拙者做核心循环训练时，每个动作看起来都差不多——他们确实不擅运动，但只要能以符合自身能力的方式多样化活动，就能受益匪浅。明白吗？

I've seen people try to do general strength who are just really bad movers. And, that's the nice thing about it is because the intensity and risk factors are so low that you can make mistakes technically on the exercises, and you're still perfectly fine. I've seen some people who are really bad movers who'll get on the ground and do a core circuit, and every exercise looks pretty much the same because they really are very good at moving, but they get a lot of benefit out of it just because they're moving in a way, you know, that is diverse and with respect to their capabilities. You know?

是啊。能够实地操作并完成那些事情。确实如此。这也是那种每次听到有人过分纠结细节时的感受——我觉得在治疗或物理治疗场景中最常见——他们会说‘这就是你的问题所在’，然后深入剖析到骨头和微小关节的层面。就像你说的，很多时候，或许那就是答案。

Yeah. Just being able to get on the ground and doing those things. Yeah. It's one of those things as well where every time I hear someone get really micro, and I think this happens probably the most in a therapy or a physical therapy setting, it's like, this is your issue, and it's, and you get really down to this bone and this little articulation. And like you said, so often I mean, maybe that is the answer.

也许治疗需要聚焦在那里，但从运动角度来看，更全局性的方法同样可以非常、非常有效。

Maybe the therapy needs to be there, but from a movement perspective, yeah, things that are a lot more global can also be really, really good.

这种理念没问题，但你必须确保自己是正确的。明白吗？另外，当面对过度使用的问题时，我从不认为解决方案是换成另一种形式的过度使用。这就是为什么我总是将多样性视为过度使用的解药，而非另一种针对性的过度使用。

That that that philosophy is fine, but you better be right. Yeah. Know? And the other thing is that, you know, when you have an overuse situation, I've never felt that the answer to overuse is a different type of overuse. That's why I always look at diversity as the cure for overuse as opposed to a different type of targeted overuse.

对，对，多样性的部分。我记得你在之前的播客里提到过。这是那种我总会不自觉地思考的事情，至少每隔几个月就会浮现在脑海中——保持高强度训练日的简洁性，而普通力量训练日或低强度日则可以极其多样化。这种思路也为教练或指导者提供了一种思考框架，帮助大脑在当天更好地运作。

Yeah, yeah, the diversity piece. And I remember what you said on a previous podcast. This is one of those things that I always, I find myself probably thinking about, or it comes across my brain at least every few months, is the keep your big intensity days are very simple, but then the general strength days, the low days, can be extremely diverse. And it's thinking about it gives you kind of that bucket on how your brain can work on that day too as a as a coach or a facilitator.

正因如此你必须谨慎，因为在关键负荷日你确实没有多样化的余地。我是说，你只能选择冲刺或不冲刺。一旦开始大重量训练，可选动作就非常有限了。这就是为什么在计划的其他部分保持多样性如此重要。

That's why you have to be, because on your key loading days, you really don't have an opportunity to be diverse. I mean, you can sprint or not sprint. That's like your only choice. You know, you you know, once you start lifting heavy, you really don't have many exercises that are available to you anymore. That's why it's so important to be diverse in the other portions of the program.

没错。但你怎么看待你提到的相位性与紧张性以及身体运动方式？观察这些潮汐般的变化很有趣。比如人们长期推崇功能性训练，现在又流行筋膜训练，但其实很多内容本质相同。

Yeah. But what do you think about you talk about the phasic and the tonic and and the way the body moves. And it's interesting to see the waves of things. Like, people I think it, for a long time, it was, like, functional training, and now it's fascial training. It's but a lot of it is very much the same.

都是多平面运动，只是锻炼不同肌群、不同平面、不同重复模式这类东西。你觉得我们现在对待——姑且称之为功能性训练或小肌群训练——的方式与过去有什么不同吗？因为你的训练方案让我更多联想到体育课的内容。你对过去十年这个领域的发展轨迹有什么看法？

It's multi planar motion, just working different muscle groups, different planes, different rep styles, and those types of things. Do you feel that the way that we approach, I'll just call it functional training, or little muscle groups, do you feel like that's any different now than it used to be? Because I think your batteries remind me more of what you would get in PE or physical education. Do you what is your way thoughts on how that trajectory has changed in the past decade?

嗯，我认为这个行业普遍存在的一个大问题是，我们往往会上了一趟车就坐到底。懂我意思吗？我们有些俗称的‘肌肉哲学’，就是只做大重量复合训练之类的东西。还有功能性训练哲学等等。我从所有这些哲学中偷师，并自豪于自己能取其精华，尝试应用到我的训练计划中。

Well, I I think that the problem one of the big problems in the profession, period, is the fact that we tend to get on a train and ride it out. You know? You know, we have the, we kind of in slang call the meathead philosophies, where we're only doing big gross lifts and things like that. We have the functional training philosophies and so forth. I steal from all of those philosophies, and I pride myself on the fact that I take the best, you know, from all of those and try to apply it in my program.

我欣赏那些更偏向大肌群的运动方案和常规训练内容。虽然不喜欢用‘肌肉哲学’这个词，但为了听众能直观理解还是用了。这类训练常被贬低，但从负荷角度、从内分泌反应来看其实很棒。而功能性训练在神经适应性方面稍显不足，也难以引发强烈内分泌反应——毕竟很多动作针对小肌群，但这才符合人体自然运动模式。我就像个采蜜的蜜蜂，汲取各家精华融入我的计划，不愿永远固守某一种训练模式。今天我们讨论的多样化训练中，很多功能性理念确实很契合，但也需要安排些只需无脑执行的基础训练日，比如俯卧撑、仰卧起坐这类能快速完成的基础动作。

I appreciate the more gross types of exercise programs and the things that we typically consider. I don't like using the term meathead, but I'll use it because it paints a very clear picture to a lot of your listeners. But, you know, meathead philosophies get badged, but if you look at them from the standpoint of load, from the standpoint of endocrine responses, they're fantastic. You look at functional movement programs, you know, they come up a little short as far as neural, potential neural adaptations, and you don't get the endocrine responses because a lot of the exercises are smaller muscle groups and so forth, but that's how the body is designed to move. I'm just stealing from everybody I can, you know, like take everybody's best stuff and involve it into my program, and I don't want ride any one particular train all the time, but when it comes to this diverse types of training that we're talking about here today, a lot of functional movement philosophies fit very well in that, but you also need days where you're doing pushups and sit ups and real simple stuff that you don't have to think about and you can just rip out really quick.

对我而言，整体力量训练中另一个关键点是乳酸生成。因为乳酸会驱动某些重要的内分泌反应，比如促进生长激素分泌，从而加速恢复。如果只做复杂动作，训练强度就上不去，乳酸产量也受限。所以简单和复杂的训练方式各有价值，我认为应该兼收并蓄。

Know, one of the things that is another important aspect of the whole general strength piece for me is lactate production, because lactate production drives some very important endocrine responses, you know, with growth hormone and such that end up, producing accelerated restoration. And if you're only doing complicated exercises, you can't work very hard. As a result of that, you can't produce the lactate either. So there's, you know, there's simple and complicated approaches, both have a lot of value and you need to kind of employ both, in my opinion.

是啊。我记得马特·奥尔德雷德描述他的训练区划分就像你说的：杠铃区、器械区，还有个更开放的功能性或筋膜训练区。

Yeah. I like Matt Aldred has described his training setup as you have, like, barbells, machines, and then a a functional or fascial, like, training area that's a lot more open ended.

嗯。

Mhmm.

器械训练这部分很有意思，像你提到的低强度健美式循环训练——简单俯卧撑这类基础动作。如果用器械做低强度高次数的循环训练，追求轻微泵感，这种在你体系里算低强度训练日吗？

And the machines thing is interesting to me because bodybuilding circuits, like low intensity like you mentioned, simple push ups and and very basic movements. Where does a bodybuilding, like a machine circuit at low intensity, higher reps, like getting a little bit of a pump, does that fit for you on, would that go on a low day for you versus like, yeah, okay.

对，在我看来这属于代谢训练，主要不是神经肌肉适应。因为这类训练要么追求肌糖原消耗，要么瞄准内分泌反应。所以我把它归类为代谢训练日。

Yeah, for me, that's metabolic. It's not neuromuscular predominantly. So yeah, again, because again, most of the adaptations you're looking for are either glycogen driving glycogen depression or you're hunting endocrine responses. So I consider that a metabolic day. Yeah.

当然。有没有哪类运动员你会更倾向于让他们...比如你有低强度训练日，也有高强度冲刺跳跃日。你会更倾向于让哪种运动员多做些高速药球循环训练、跨栏这类强调动作速度的练习，而不是...

Sure. Is there any types of athletes that you would be more inclined okay. You have that low day. You got your big jump sprint days, and you have low day. Is there what types of athletes would you be more inclined to have do, like, more of the high velocity med ball circuits and hurdles and more things that are more movement velocity in nature versus, hey.

我们要做更多健美式循环训练，让乳酸稍微堆积起来。

We're gonna do a more of a bodybuilding circuit. We're gonna get a little lactate going.

不知道...能告诉我吗？我...哦，你不知道？是的。我尽量不...我喜欢所谓的'紧身衣运动员'，并尽量让他们接触尽可能多样化的训练。所以实际上每个人迟早都会进行重量训练循环。

Don't Can tell me? I I Oh, you don't? Yeah. I try not to I like tight cast athletes, so to speak, and I try to subject them to as diverse an array of experience as I can. So practically everyone is going to, at some point in time, do weight training circuits.

他们会做常规的弹力带训练，会做药球训练。我真心不会挑三拣四，因为说实话，我不知道谁真的能准确评估运动员的真实需求。我宁愿用霰弹枪而不是步枪打猎，这么说吧，就是撒网更广些。这也体现了训练多样性的重要性。

They're going to do the general strap work. They're going to do the med ball stuff. And I genuinely don't try to pick and choose, you know, it's when we, you know, I don't know who's really super accurate about evaluating athletes and what they really need. And I'm, I'd rather hunt with a shotgun than with a rifle, you know, and cast a broader net, so to speak. And again, that just speaks a little bit more to the diversity of training.

想想当我们开始给人们定型时...重申一次，如果你要给某人定型，最好确保判断准确。否则就像我说的，我宁愿从更宏观的角度来看待这个问题。

Think when we start to typecast people. Once again, if you typecast somebody, you better be right. You better be right on or else I, like I said, I'd rather look at it from a more broad standpoint, I guess you'd say.

没错。毫无疑问要避免那种负面心理暗示。就像设置低栏杆一样，给所有人都设个容易跨越的高度。

Yeah. For sure. You definitely wanna avoid that nocebo without question. It's kinda like the low bar too. Just giving everyone a low bar that everyone can easily jump over.

这完全不会造成混淆。直接去做就行。而且我想，如果有人特别喜欢健美式循环训练，他们可能会比要求更努力些，懂我意思吗？

There's there's not not any confusion. Like, just do it. And even I would imagine too, if someone was more inclined for like, they really like, like, the the bodybuilding circuit, maybe they would try to go just a little harder than that. You know?

确实。你知道，可能是这样，但作为一个普通人，你做自己喜欢的事，这完全没问题。但在追求表现时，我强烈认为必须在所有领域都积累能力。

Exactly. Well, you know, it could be, but, you know and and when you're a general pop person, you've you know, you do what you like, you know, and that's perfectly fine too. But when it comes to performance, I just feel strongly that you have to accumulate in all those areas.

是的。我认为你这种处理方式很有帮助——就像我们考虑只能在48小时内进行速度或力量训练一样。有人会觉得'周一练了力量，第二天就不能做任何力量训练'，但身体的适应能力远超想象，强度也完全不同。就我个人而言，现在年纪大了些，二十多岁时我常采用两周高强度一周休息的循环：周一周四大重量训练结合节奏冲刺（虽然组合奇怪但有效），周二周五跳跃或冲刺，周三周六轻松训练。不过现在重量训练日越来越像健美训练了——不是指高次数那种，而是那种乳酸冲刷的整体感觉。

Yeah. That's something that I think it's helpful to that's something that you do that I really like in the sense that I think similar to how we think about, okay, we can only do speed with forty eight hours or power with forty eight hours. I think there's this thought of, oh, well, we were in the weight room on Monday, so we can't do anything that's like strength the next day, and it's just the body is so adaptable at that, and it's a totally different intensity. And, yeah, I know, for me personally, I'm a little older now, obviously, than I used to be, and I found my, when I was in my twenties, I tended to run a cycle that was a lot of times, I found if I did this too often, I would get burnt out and early, and so would my athletes, but we crushed it for, like, three or four cycles of this, but it would be two weeks on, one week off. Monday and Thursday was, like, heavy weights ish, heavy to heavy ish weights, and temp even tempo sprinting is a weird combination, but it worked.

随着年龄增长，那些重量训练日开始更像健美训练日，但效果很好。我的身体需要这种训练——不是传统健美式反复推举，而是那种让全身微微乳酸堆积的充盈感。

And then the next day, Tuesday, Friday was jump, jumps or sprints, and then Wednesday and Saturday were like capacity and easy. And but I found as I get older, those weights days tend to look they start to look more like the bodybuilding days, but they're good. It's like, yeah, this is what my body needs. This is great. I mean, not like repping it out bodybuilding, but the kind of that flush, that little bit of lactate type thing, that general feel of it all.

就像'啊，这正是我身体明天需要的状态'。我也喜欢这种理念——有时我们太固守'某些日子只能练特定肌群'的教条了。

It's like, Oh, yeah, I think this is when my body needs to be good tomorrow. So I like that idea too, that where sometimes I think we get so fixed, and okay, we can only lift and train the muscle these days, and muscle

不，并非如此。看看体育界，孩子们可以连续打背靠背篮球赛。在我的训练中，有时会连续安排高强度速度力量日，因为运动员最终必须适应这种强度。

No, that's not true. Yeah. And and if you look at sport, you can see kids who are playing basketball, ball night to night, you know, back to back nights, and things of that nature. There's times in my training where I'll do a tough speed power based day and follow it up with another one because that's what they're eventually gonna have to do at some point in time. Yeah.

所以没有什么是一成不变的，可以这么说。

So so nothing's carved in stone, I guess you would say.

没错。我们总有训练模型，但现实总会揭示许多例外。高中打篮球时，教练总在训练尾声让我们做急转变向自杀式冲刺——罚球线折返、半场折返循环。虽然他们总喊'你是最快的'来激励我，但连续一个月这样训练后，我记得有次起跳时已经精疲力尽了。

Yeah. There's always that we have our model, and then there's always those situations that reveal there's a lot of exceptions to that model. And, yeah, when I was in high school, I remember that with basketball, our coach was running us very hard with, like, at the end of practice with, like, these fast change of direction, like suicide sprints, like free throw line and back, half court and then and just repeatedly and they're always kinda yelling at me to run faster and tell me I was the fastest guy and, you know, whatever, however that helped my own identity and my feeling of myself. But after probably a month of that or however long it was, I remember I actually jumped, and it was always back to back. I was always tired.

我通常会在家锻炼，因为我们没有力量教练。比如，我会在家做几组每组10次的简单训练，但我记得那时累得像狗一样，直接倒头就睡。但大约一个月后，我的弹跳达到了最高点。训练结束后，我们完成了所有冲刺跑，我感觉，啊，状态相当不错。

I would usually actually lift at home because we didn't have a strength coach. Like, I would just do a few sets of 10 of a few things at home, but I just remember I was dog tired and just would go to bed. But after, yeah, a month or so, that type of thing, I jumped my highest. After practice, we finished all those sprints. I'm like, ah, I feel pretty good.

我去试跳时，手指超过了那个小方块顶部两三英寸。对于一米八五的身高来说，这相当于三米五五的高度。我当时就想，天啊。这让我意识到，不是每个人的身体都能像我这样承受这种训练。但这确实让我明白，我们有时能突破很多常规限制。

And I went and I jumped, and I got my hand three inches, two or three inches over the top of that little square. It's like eleven seven for a six one guy. I was like, man. It just made me think, now I don't think everyone could handle that the way my body did, you know? But that really showed me a lot about what we can handle sometimes that breaks a lot of rules.

教练总是以五次全队冲刺结束训练——最后五次全力冲刺。我现在很感激这种结尾的速度训练。不管效果如何，当时确实发生了些变化，我至今仍会想起。对了，对于不同类型的运动员，比如田径选手和团体项目运动员，你如何看待基因差异？我知道你提到过类型划分，但田径队和团体项目在基础力量训练上，如果团体项目运动员需要更多变向能力，这会如何影响你对他们需求的看法？

He would always finish with five for the team too, just five max effort sprints at the end, and I think I appreciate that little touch of speed at the end. Now I appreciate it. However it all worked out, something was going on there, so I think about that every now and then. Boo, how would so with different types of athletes, track and field versus, like, a team sport, how do you look at gen I know you talked about, like, typecasting, but different populations of track and team sport and general strength. If a team sport athlete is being more multidirectional, would that impact your thoughts on their needs in that department versus just a more general weight lifting stimulus?

影响没你想的那么大。我坚信所谓的动作质量——当你科学训练运动员，使其获得平衡的力量表现时：最大力量、爆发力、反应力量或弹性都处于平衡状态，前后链平衡，核心与四肢平衡等等。当这些要素协调运作时，你的动作自然流畅。我认为任何经我指导的田径运动员，只要经过针对性练习，都应该能在多方向运动中表现良好——这才是关键所在。

Not as much as you think. I'm a strong believer in what I call just movement quality, meaning that I just feel that when you train an athlete properly and you end up with a balanced strength profile, meaning that your absolute or your max strength and your power levels and your reactive strength or elasticity are all in balance, and you look at anterior posterior chain balance, you look at core versus periphery balance and so forth. When those things are kind of working for you, you just move well, you know, ultimately. So I, you know, I feel that any track and field athlete that I coach should be able to go out there and perform in a multidirectional environment provided provided they got the rehearsal. Now that's the piece that, you know, ultimately needs to come into play.

所以我的田径运动员如果参加短距离折返跑，初期可能表现不佳，因为我们缺乏多方向移动的练习经验。但若他们以相同方式训练，并投入专项动作练习，我认为他们不会在这方面存在缺陷。因为当我们在训练中找到那些特定的比例与平衡点时，你的移动、加速、冲刺都会更出色。

So a track and field athlete of mine, you put them out there on a shorter run, they're not gonna be that great at it because we don't get the rehearsal. We don't get the multidirectional rehearsal and experience. However, I feel that if they train the same way and were investing in the rehearsal and the sports specific movements and things like that, I don't think they would be deficient in that area, because again, I just think there were certain ratios and balances that when we find them in training, that you just move better. You accelerate better. You you you sprint better.

减速更稳，变向更敏捷。

You decelerate better. You change direction better.

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Grab your Exagen gear today and see the difference in your training. Athletic performance is built on a spectrum of training methods, from high velocity skills to power training to strength work. And on one end of that spectrum, on that strength end, you have the most targeted work in the form of machines. And this is part of the reason that so many top speed and strength coaches have their favorite machines to deliver that targeted stimulus. For decades, HAMR Strength has been a top provider of reliable, effective machines that are trusted by coaches and athletes worldwide.

它们能无缝融入整体训练计划，提供精准的力量刺激。当涉及基于器械的力量训练需求时，请认准HAMR Strength。没错。我很欣赏那些打篮球后又去跳高的运动员理念，高中阶段这种情况很常见，或者参与其他项目。

They fit seamlessly into that total performance program, delivering that targeted strength stimulus. When it comes to your machine based strength training needs, think hammer strength. Yeah. I like the idea of athletes who play basketball, and then they go to high jump. High school happens a lot or or whatever other events.

刚离开篮球场，给他们几周适应时间，他们就能跳得很高。但如果训练中缺乏动作多样性，他们往往会逐渐失去弹跳力。这让我想到基础力量训练的问题——过度专注于某个单一细节而缺乏多样性。我很喜欢看你那张DVD，虽然惭愧二十多岁时没看，但内容确实精彩。

And right off the basketball court, you give them a couple weeks to get used to it. They can jump really high. And then if they don't get movement richness in their training, they sometimes and oftentimes start losing their spring. And I that makes me think about the general strength piece, and too much intensity at one specific little thing and not enough diversity. I like watching in your DVD that I finally, well, I'm embarrassed I didn't watch it when I was in my twenties, but it's so good.

关于书籍

Books about

五年前我也...别难过。是的。

five years ago I haven't Don't Feel Bad. Yeah.

但我在视频里看到个叫'混战循环'的训练，当时就想：如果我不是球类运动员而是田径选手，这套训练能涵盖相当多素质要求。它包含俯卧撑、15米冲刺、徒手深蹲等动作循环进行。这样你既能获得爆发力（XL），又能锻炼耐力（D cell），通过功能性动作不断重复。记得大学田径教练肯定受你影响——那会儿是2002-2003年，我巅峰期在2006年——他设计了类似训练：满场慢跑，每20或50米就停下做基础力量动作。

But one of the things I saw in there was a scramble circuit, and I was like, Oh, if I wasn't playing a sport, but I was a track athlete, I was thinking, Oh, this would fit a fair amount of qualities, because it was an exercise, like a pushup, then you sprint, what was it, like 15 meters or something, and then you drop and do air squats or whatever it is, and then you just keep going back. So you get a little XL, you get a D cell, you get a functional based movement, and you keep repeating that. And I remember when track coach in college must have been influenced by your work. This was when I it was about 02/2003, 2006 was my days, and he did this thing called he called it a scramble circuit, but it was like jogging all over the place, jogging all over the field of the bleachers. And then every, like, 20 or 50 meters, we would drop down and do a general strength movement.

我们会做深蹲、俯卧撑或弓步等动作，由不同队员喊出训练次数。这成了队里很多人最爱的训练方式，大家喜欢这种结合有氧跑、多样化动作和团队协作的模式。后来看到你的混战循环训练时，我想请教的是：你对直线型项目（如田径）与多方向性运动的关系怎么看？

We would do air squats or push ups or lunges or whatever whatever it was, and then different athletes would call out how many of whatever it was we were gonna do. And that was was a favorite workout of a lot of people on the team. I think people liked that little aerobic, the running, the diversity, and then team contribution. But then I saw your scramble circuit work. And, anyways, what I was gonna ask you alongside that is what's your take on a linear athlete, like a track athlete, and then that multidirectional?

比如，提到往返跑。你会让田径运动员在训练中加入往返跑敏捷性练习吗？或者那种混乱的循环训练会纳入考量吗？能否谈谈这种多方向性训练如何转化为田径运动员的线性运动能力？

Like, mentioned a shuttle run. Like, would you have track athletes do, like, shuttle run proagilities as part of their work, or would that scramble scramble circuit factor in? Can you tell me a little bit about that multidirectional translating into the the linear for a track athlete?

我对直线跑项目的运动员在这方面投入时间不多，但它是训练计划的组成部分。那些混乱循环训练就是重要部分。知道吗？你没提到这类训练最有价值的部分其实是反应能力——比如当你做俯卧撑时我突然喊冲刺，你必须立刻起身行动，明白吗？

I don't spend a ton of time on it with linear track people, but it is embedded in the program. You know? The scramble circuits are a big part of that. You know? You know, one thing you didn't mention about those scramble circuits that's probably the most valuable thing is the reaction, meaning that, you know, when when you're doing a push up and I shout sprint, you gotta get on your feet, Like, gotta figure it out, you know?

这需要大量整体动作协调。如果设置锥桶训练，你可以观察前面队员的动作来规划自己的路线。但在突发指令下必须瞬间反应，这实际上是在激发和完善我们天生的动作协调机制。再看看我的训练内容，包含大量侧向移动、后退跑等多元化动作。

So there's a lot of gross movement organization that takes place. You know, if you put cone drills out there, you know, you can kinda look at the guy who's in line in front of you, how they do the cone drill, and you can kinda plan it out. But in that situation, you have to figure it out instantly, so you're actually driving and improving our innate movement organization processes. And then if you look at the drills and exercises that I do, there's lots of lateral stuff. There's lots of backward stuff and things of that nature.

田径运动员常被定型为'不需要减速训练'，但每次运动员进行跳跃落地时都在减速，每次冲刺后也必然停止。虽然我们没有刻意标注'这是减速训练'，但减速元素始终存在于训练中。

You know, sometimes as a track person, I get put in a box like, oh, well, you don't you don't do deceleration or whatever. Well, every time I ever had a kid who did a plyo, when they hit the ground, they decelerated. Every time a kid ever sprinted, they're not still sprinting. They stopped at some time. So so whereas, you know, we didn't maybe make a concerted effort to, like, say, this is D cell training, this deceleration component was involved in there as well.

明白吗？

You know?

毫无疑问。你提到反应训练这点太棒了，我居然忘了这个。最近在研究巴德·温特的经典训练法，文献记载他有个叫'杀手锏'的收尾训练——运动员慢跑时，教练吹哨就冲刺，再吹哨就原地慢跑，全程400米都是随机反应。在我看来，这个训练的精髓不在于强度，而在于即时反应的设计。

Yeah, without question. Boo, I'm really glad you mentioned the reaction piece. I can't believe I forgot that. I was just going through some of Bud Winter's old work, and one of the in the literature about him, they talk about this finisher he had. It was called, like, Killer Dillers or something, and it was people would I think people would jog.

他有个哨子，每次吹响就要冲刺，再吹可能就要原地慢跑——整个400米都是基于反应完成的。我认为这种训练的魔力不在于难度，而在于它创造了需要即时应对的变量。

He had, like, a whistle, and every time he blew the whistle, he had to sprint. But when he blew it again, you I I think you just kinda like kinda jogged in place, or it was but it was reaction based. You did this for 400 meters. And I think, to me, I'm like, the magic in that is it's not that it's just a tough drill. It's just there's something to react to.

这种不确定性就像你在运动中感受到的那种感觉。所以我非常欣赏你提到的反应部分，因为自从高中篮球生涯结束后，我尽可能参与极限飞盘等运动。我发现如果无法进行这些活动，偶尔需要一些能引发反应的事物，因为它能激发我们更深层——不是更低级，而是更内在的运动潜能。

There's like this uncertainty. It's kinda you kinda get that feeling like you're in a sport. And so I love that that you have that reaction piece, because the longer I've gone and away from high school basketball, I try to get an ultimate Frisbee when I can and anything that's a sport, but I find if I can't do that, you need something to react to on occasion, because it brings out those lower, not lower, I would say, those more inner centers of how we're athletic.

是的。我们大部分动作组织并非发生在大脑，而是皮层下区域完成的。这正是你在那些场景中最终训练或练习的内容。这很重要，明白吗？

Yeah. A lot of our movement organization doesn't occur in the brain. It occurs subcortically, whatever, and that's what you're ultimately drilling or practicing or training in those those scenarios. That's important. You know?

为什么有些人终身运动笨拙，而有些人最终能变得协调？正是因为后者持续训练和挑战这些能力。

Why do why are some people motor morals their whole lives, and some people eventually do become coordinated is because those are the things that you're actually training and challenging.

关于基础力量训练与节奏跑的关系，据我理解，当人们设计训练计划时，你似乎更偏爱——这可能更适用于田径——我确实喜欢为团队项目运动员安排长距离冲刺，从弹性足踝角度考虑。但我常见你在周二周四安排基础力量循环训练，周六进行节奏跑。你对这种需求分配的逻辑是什么？比如查理·弗朗西斯体系，当然我确信查理并非总是如此。

Yeah. With with the general strength, like circuits relative to tempo, As to my understanding, when people lay out your programming, it looks like you're a fan, and maybe this is more specific to track. I do like some long sprinting for team sport athletes from that elastic, like, foot and ankle perspective, But I've seen a lot of times you'll have a general strength circuit of work on, like, a Tuesday and Thursday, and then the tempo sprints are a Saturday. What's your thought process on needs? So, like, a Charlie Francis, okay, we're doing and I'm sure Charlie didn't always do this.

他肯定也做过大量基础体能训练，但常规思路是：田径项目周一三五进行快速冲刺，周二四六做慢节奏跑。你如何看待这个节奏跑与更多元化、更丰富动作训练之间的平衡？

I'm sure he did a lot of GPP as well, but a common thought would be okay. For track and field, we're gonna sprint fast on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, and we'll do slow tempo Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. What's your thoughts on that dial of more tempo sprints versus more general, like, more diverse movement, more rich movement?

确实。我们称之为'基础容量'的概念，我认为这是训练中天然存在的第四维度，而节奏跑正是实现方式。作为田径从业者，跑步是项目核心，所以永远会有跑步训练模块。

Yeah. You know, there's something we call general capacity that I think we kind innately know is a fourth part of what we do, and Temple's kind of been the way that we do that. You know, we're track and field people. You gotta run. You know, running is a part of the sport, so there's always gonna be a running component.

我倾向于在基础力量、药球训练等方面投入更多，因为节奏跑容易引发软组织损伤问题。对田径教练而言跑步令人兴奋，但对人体来说却很单调——只是左右交替的重复动作。高跑量会导致重复性压力损伤：下背紧绷、髋屈肌紧张、腘绳肌僵硬等问题会持续存在。相反，如果我设计包含12个动作的循环训练，就能获得12种运动模式，打破这种左右交替的单调模式。

The reason why I tend to invest more in the other stuff, the general strength, the med ball, and so forth, is because I feel that temple likes the fuses on a lot of your soft tissue injuries and and and problems. You know, if, you know, to attract coach, running is exciting, but to the human body, it's pretty boring. It's just right, left, right, left repeat. And you know, so high volumes of running tend to produce repetitive stresses, you get your tight lower back, and you get your tight hip flexors, and you get your tight hamstrings and so forth, and that stuff just doesn't go away. On the other hand, if I pick a circuit and I have 12 different exercises, now I have 12 different movement patterns, and I have an opportunity to break up that right, left, right, left pattern.

我也有机会让运动员体验多样化的女性运动经历。所以我试图尊重跑步的需求，但我也认为，即使你是一名田径教练，如果仅通过跑步来进行基础体能或基础能力训练，那么你很可能会遇到许多软组织问题，这些问题最终会在某种程度上拖累你。有趣的是，对于团队运动运动员，我真正喜欢进行节奏训练的只有那些在运动中不怎么跑步的运动员，比如排球运动员。

And I also have the opportunity to subject athletes to a diverse array of women experiences. So I try to respect the need to run, but I also feel that if you're like a, even if you're a track coach, if you're only doing your base fitness or base capacity work using running, then you're probably gonna end up with a lot of soft tissue issues that are gonna eventually bog you down to some extent. Interestingly, when it comes to team sport athletes, the only team sport athletes that I really like to do tempo with are the ones that really don't run-in their sport, like volleyball, for example.

啊。

Ah.

因为这对他们来说是新鲜的，而对于田径运动员来说，就像那句老话说的，我的运动就是你的运动的惩罚。我不会用这个来吸引你。

Because that's new to them, you know, whereas to a track and field athlete, like, I mean, you know, the old saying, my sport is your sport's punishment. Like, I'm not gonna do that to attract you.

是的，是的。就运动多样性而言，排球运动员确实缺乏这一点。我记得很久以前你在节目中提到过，让排球运动员接触最大速度训练后，他们的垂直跳跃能力有所提升，因为他们从未体验过这种刺激。实际上，我在网上指导一名半职业排球运动员，我会安排适量的节奏训练，虽然不如其他运动员那么多，但我觉得这对他是合适的。

Yeah. Yeah. In terms of that movement diversity, that is that thing that volleyball just does not get. And I think it was you a long time ago on this show who said something about exposing volleyball players to max velocity and seeing vertical jump improvements just because they just don't get that and and what, you know, what a stimulus that could be. And, yeah, I actually I I work with a volleyball player online who does, like, semi pro type tournaments and stuff like that, and I put a fair amount, not too much, like, not as much as I would put some other athlete's tempo, but I I turn it down a little bit, but that's I think about I'm like, that is I think that is good for him.

所以你证实了我的直觉。确实，这是一个有趣的想法，关于你在运动中缺少什么，然后我想在多大程度上弥补这种缺失？也许这就是那个神奇的平衡点。

So you've confirmed my hunch there with that. And and that, yeah, it definitely it's an interesting thought on what what aren't you getting in your sport, but then how far do I wanna take that thing you aren't getting? Maybe that's the magic balance point.

每位表现教练的职责都是为运动员的比赛做准备，但当你看到比赛中过度使用某些能力时，你也有责任找到方法来对比或缓解这种情况。记得以前篮球运动员每年在场上训练八个月，表现教练会做很多变向训练。现在篮球运动员一年有十三个月都在场上，同样的变向训练量会导致大量伤病，因为他们已经在场上得到了足够的训练。这是一个例子，说明我们的训练文化没有适应当时运动文化的变化。

It's the job of every performance coach to prepare an athlete for competition, but it's also your responsibility when you see overuse in competition to to find ways to contrast that or alleviate it. You know? You know, I remember back in the day when basketball, you know, every performance coach used to do a lot of change of direction with basketball players, and the basketball players were on the court eight months a year. Well, now the basketball players are on the court thirteen months a year. Yeah.

在摸索这些问题的过程中，我们遇到了很多伤病。我的意思是，这是一个例子，说明我们的训练文化未能及时适应运动文化的变化。

And the same dosages of change of direction stuff are gonna produce massive injuries because they're always getting that stuff on the court. That's a that's a and and when we were figuring this stuff out, there were a lot of injuries in the interim. My point is is that that's a chance and an example of a situation where our training culture did not adapt to what changes in sport culture we were seeing in that time.

是啊。这让我想起丹·约翰和帕维尔在《轻松力量》书中提到的‘相同但不同’。嗯。比如奥运举重选手汤米·科诺，他会在休赛期进行两三个月的健美训练。

Yeah. I like that reminds me of Dan John and Pavel in the book Easy Strength. They talk about same but different. Mhmm. Like, Tommy Kono, Olympic weightlifter, he would do bodybuilding for, like, two or three months in his off season.

那就是看似相同实则不同的训练。懂吗？如果只持续进行奥运举重训练，可能对那些压力应变通路不太理想。这让我联想到排球运动员——动作同样具有爆发力。

That was, like, the same thing, but different. You know? It's like, you could just keep doing more Olympic lifting, but probably wouldn't be great for those stress strain pathways. So and it makes me think of those volleyball players. It's still explosive.

你依然保持着良好的角速度运动，只是动作更快更直线化。这就是相同但不同。

You're still moving with a relative, you good angular velocity and things, but it's just faster and straight ahead. It's same but different.

相同但不同，而不同之处往往体现在基础训练环节。完全正确。

Same but different, and different is typically the general component. Exactly.

对。说到节奏训练，这让我思考——可能这更偏向田径专项问题。虽然大家都知道那些通过大量节奏训练取得巨大成功的教练，但我在想：如果你能承受这种训练量且不受伤，又是适合这种训练的运动员类型，或者团队文化支持这种做法，那可能确实有效。就像篮球赛季中需要频繁变向，但训练量总有上限；田径也是如此，你想进行足够跑量训练，但必须控制在可承受范围内——这就是需要调节的‘不同之处’。

Yeah. With tempo work, you know, it gets me thinking, maybe this is more of a track specific question. I mean, I'm sure everyone will always point to those coaches who are super successful running a lot of tempo, but then, so it makes me think, well, if you can survive it, and you don't get hurt, and you're the type of athlete that does well with a lot tempo, then it probably was good for you, or if the culture, you know, was good culture around it, but it kinda makes me think with something like a track, or even I you could say with even basketball too, it's like, in season, you probably wanna change directions a lot, but you can only do as much as you can, you know, before the thing, and same thing with track. Like, you wanna do a good amount of running, but you can only do as much as you can, and so there's that dial that to bring in the different, and maybe that's, yeah.

没错。另一点在于：当我们进行过量节奏训练时，运动员是否还能提升训练强度？如果在田径赛中只做节奏训练，你会惨败。某些阶段必须提高速度和强度。有些训练方案依赖反弹效应——运动员从过度训练中恢复后状态回升。这引发争议：他们到底是在专项训练，还是仅通过恢复期反弹达到中等水平？

Yeah. The other piece is, like, at what point are we doing so much tempo that these athletes are not capable of progressing the intensities in training? You know, if you do tempo in the track meet, you get your butt beat. You know, at some point in time, the the velocities and intensities have to go up, and there are programs that, basically kinda rely on a rebound effect where these athletes kinda freshen up from all of the abuse they've taken. So it's arguable whether they actually train for their sport or whether they actually just did something and kind of bounced back and got fresh, and as a result, were able to perform at a decent level.

最终这会阻碍强度提升。我认为很多接受节奏训练的青少年——我指的是超大量节奏训练——可能从未达到他们本可实现的训练强度。正因如此，他们虽因刻苦获得某些成就（努力固然重要），却永远无法触及真正的潜力上限。纵观田径领域，整体趋势是训练量已不再增加了。

So ultimately, will prevent intensity from increasing, and there's lots of kids, I think, in tempo driven programs. When I say tempo, I mean massively, you know, massive amounts probably never trained at the intensities that they could. And as a result of that, they experienced some success because they're working hard. And hard work is important, but they never quite get to where they could be because of that. And if you look at track and field cultures, generally speaking, you don't see volumes going up anymore.

你会发现训练量在下降。实际情况是，某个孩子跑出了一个标杆成绩，突然间大家都意识到必须达到那个速度才有竞争力。于是教练们开始调整训练计划以适应新标准，虽然训练量比从前少了，但这没关系。孩子们最终表现得很好。过去三十年来，田径界持续呈现训练量减少而强度增加的趋势，这不仅是教练教育推动的，某种程度上也是形势所迫。

You see volumes going down. You know what's happening is, you know, some kid puts out a grid time, and like, now all of a sudden, I understand that I have to run that time in order to be competitive. So the coaches start setting up their training to adapt to that model there, and then they find they can't do as much volume as they could before, but that's okay. And the kids end up doing well. So you've seen a constant trend in track and field of decreasing volumes and increasing intensities over the last thirty years or so that's been driven not only by coaches' education, but also been driven by need, so to speak.

结果就是训练量大为缩减。记得加里·温克勒在1984年发布过一张图表，几乎涵盖了所有田径跑步训练类型，标明了应该跑多少米等等。这在当时是前沿成果，多年来都是教练培训的基石。但最终我们不得不弃用这张表——不是因为不好，而是当年制定这个标准时，女子4×100米接力在NCAA一级联赛跑44秒2就能夺冠，而现在需要42秒4。几乎所有优秀教练的训练量都已低于图表标准了，明白吗？

And as a result of that, volumes are a lot less. You know, Gary Winkler, I remember, put out a chart in 1984, and he categorized practically every type of track and field running workout you can do, how many meters you should do, and so forth. And it was cutting edge, and it was like the cornerstone of coaching education for years and years and years. And finally, in our program, we had to abandon that chart, not because it was bad, but back when that chart was formed, you could run forty four two and win that girls relay at NCAA championships in division one, whereas now you have to run forty two four to do it, and just about every good coach was operating in volume ranges that were below the chart was at that point. You know?

这个开创性的工具确实帮助了我们，推动教练文化朝着积极方向发展。而现在由于运动员们的表现，特别是他们在赛场上创造的惊人成绩，又到了需要突破的时候了。

It was a cutting edge thing that really helped us and brought us along as a coaching culture in a very positive direction, and the times come for another push, you know, because of what people are doing and some of the spectacular things that they're doing on the track now.

没错。随着标准不断提高，训练强度持续升级，这确实会改变你关于如何达成目标的思路，尤其是短跑项目。

Yeah. As, yeah, as that bar gets raised and the intensity get re gets raised, it definitely can change your thought process on how you could get there, especially with the the shorter sprints.

是的。如今女子400米要拿奖牌得跑48秒25，九十年代按52秒的节奏训练还能取得不错成绩，但现在完全行不通了。如果训练量太大，根本不可能适应48秒的节奏。

Yeah. If, you know, if if girls are now to win a medal, you gotta run 48 and a quarter for a female. Like, training at 52 pace got us by pretty good back in the nineties, you know, but it's just not gonna do it anymore. And if the volumes are too high, you're just not gonna be able to train at 48 pace.

对。说到节奏跑，我觉得必须强调存在不同类型的节奏训练方案。我的最佳方案是分两次训练：先跑6-7个200米，再跑4-5个300米，始终保持在65%左右的强度。队友们总想加速，但我坚持弹性节奏——这才是我的制胜法宝。

Yeah. Think it's always important to say with tempo, like, yeah, there's different types of tempo programs. Like, when I I know my sweet spot for me was we would run, like, seven two hundreds, six or seven two hundreds, and then four to five three hundreds. So, those were two separate workouts, and I always kept it the true 65 or so percent. I never, my teammates would always push ahead, and I'm like, I'm just gonna bounce, you know, and that was my jam.

这个方法很有效。但超过这个强度就会让我崩溃，状态急转直下。记得大学新生年，第一次不打篮球后做了大量乳酸阈节奏跑。有次尝试扣篮——要是高中时期根本不用热身就能轻松完成——结果连续七八次扣飞，最后好不容易才成功一次。

That worked really, but anything more than that, anything faster than that just crushed me. Everything started to go downhill. And I remember my freshman year of college, my first year not playing basketball, it was a lot of tempo, more lactate driven tempo. And I remember going to dunk one day, and and if this was high school, easy money, doing me to barely warm up. You know, I'm gonna get both of my wrists a few inches over the rim, and I I missed, like, seven or eight dunks before I could finally make one after all this stuff.

这让我真正开始欣赏那条训练原则。有趣的是，我第一年进行的节奏训练量，与某些训练计划相比简直微不足道。我曾见过运动员——特别是四百米选手——的训练内容，比如连续跑十六个两百米。我就在想，这明显存在边际效益递减的问题，凭什么九个就比八个更好？

And it just really made me appreciate that line. And and the funny thing is is how much tempo I was doing that first year pales to what some programs do. I've seen I've seen athletes do workout, quarter milers do workout. It was, like, sixteen two hundreds. And I'm just thinking to myself, okay, like, a lot of diminishing returns, what makes nine better than eight?

十个又凭什么比九个强？我们真的能从这多加的一个里获得更多收益吗？这实在是...

What makes 10 better than nine? You know, like, how much more are we getting out of this next one? It's really

虽然遗憾，但你刚才提到查理·弗朗西斯——要记得他是极化训练的坚定拥护者。弗朗西斯强烈反对高强度节奏训练，他认为这种训练过于严苛，会造成严重疲劳，却因速度不足而无法真正提升短跑表现。

pretty sad, but you know, you mentioned Charlie Francis earlier, but, you know, remember Charlie Francis was a big proponent of polarized training. Like, Francis was a big anti intensive temple person. He felt that it was it was very, tough. It was hard. It would it would fatigue you severely, but it wasn't fast enough to genuinely help you sprinting.

这样一来，训练计划里就包含了既令人疲惫又无益的内容，必须剔除。因此他主张采用慢节奏与超高速相结合的模式，认为中间强度的训练不可取。我深信极化训练原则应运用于所有训练——无论是跑步、力量训练、增强式训练，甚至在某种程度上也包括技术训练。

So then you had something in your program that was fatiguing, but not helpful. It needed to go. So he was kind of an advocate of slower tempo and really fast stuff, and he kind of felt that the middle ground was not a good idea, and I believe very strongly in applying the principles of polarized training to everything I do, whether it's run training, weight training, plyometric training, or even technical training to some extent.

明白了。如果是排球队，你会怎么设计他们的节奏训练？肯定不会是十六个两百米吧？

Yeah. With a volleyball team, what would your tempo workout for them look like? Obviously not sixteen two hundreds.

绝对不会。我的节奏训练课最多不超过1200米，这是硬性上限。

No. No. No. The most I ever do in a tempo session is 1,200 meters. That's the most I ever do.

即便是入门级的扩展训练，我也会控制跑动距离。通常采用百米或120米左右的段落，根据队员水平可能缩短到80米。我从不给任何人安排超过200米的单次训练。

And I keep, and like for the typical introductory extensive stuff, I keep the run short as well. You know? So I like to do hundreds or 120s or something like that. Depending on the population, I might drop down to eighties. I never go longer than 200 with anyone.

要知道，尽管这是基础训练，我还是希望节奏能稍快些。明白吗？我不想要那种慢到无法转化或培养任何效果的训练。我要确保自己始终处于某种乳酸阈值区间。记住，乳酸通过大量内分泌反应促进恢复。我曾与NFL体能教练争论过这一点。

And, you know, the the because I want it to be even though it's temple work, I still want it to be a little bit up pace. You know? I don't want something that's so slow that it's not gonna translate or develop any type of I wanna make sure that I'm always in some type of lactate based zone. Remember, lactate drives restoration through a lot of the endocrine responses. You know, I've gotten into arguments with NFL strength coaches.

其实算不上争论，算是讨论吧。他们告诉我如何为速度型力量运动员安排有氧训练，从恢复角度看效果极佳。我当时表情大概是：真的吗？结果确实有效。真的？

Well, they're not really arguments, but they're discussions. And they tell me how they do aerobic stuff for speed power athletes, and it's tremendously helpful from a recovery standpoint. And I'm looking at them like, really? And yeah, it works. Really?

后来我去训练营观察，看到运动员们跑120码节奏跑。第三组后全场鸦雀无声，第四五组后所有人都弯腰喘气。

Okay. So but then I go to the camp and I watch the guys, and they're running 120 yard tempos. And after the third one, everybody shuts up. Nobody talks anymore. And after the fourth or fifth one, everybody's bending over.

答案在于这不是有氧训练，而是乳酸训练。我们泛称有氧，实则是无氧的乳酸代谢。现在我完全明白其原理——全是乳酸驱动的。所以你提到的65%（我记得你个人实践过），这就是我把70%左右设为最低标准的原因。

And the answer is it's not aerobic, it's lactate based. You know, we use the term aerobic loosely, but it really is anaerobic, it's lactate and whatever. And now it makes perfect sense to me why the stuff is working, is because it's all lactate driven. So again, that's why you're 65%, I think you mentioned that, you know, you did personally. That's why that's kind of like my, like minimum standard, you know, kind of around 70 ish percent or whatever.

这是我允许的最慢强度，因为必须保证至少产生少量乳酸。

It's about the slowest I'll let them go, because I always wanna be producing at least a little lactate.

没错。我确实会触及70%那个区间，但始终谨记为次日训练保留体力——特别是第二天的冲刺训练。有趣的是，通过这种渐进式训练，我的300码成绩突飞猛进。有次训练中有人突然加速，我就想：好吧，看来今天要这么练了。

Yeah. Yeah. For me, I probably ended up going, yeah, touching into that 70% range for sure on those, but I always remember just leaving just being really mindful to leave it in the tank for the the next day and that that sprint day the next day. But funny enough, running that way and just slowly, just those slow incremental gains week to week type principle, I mean, I was blowing away my, like, well, like, 300 times or whatever to, like, when I did decide to go, oh, there was one workout where everyone's like, we're gonna start running these you know those workouts where someone just decides to start running faster, and then I'm like, alright. I guess, alright, I guess this is what we're doing today.

团队运动的节奏跑很有意思。你提到距离很关键，因为我觉得比起田径，团队运动的节奏跑动作质量更侧重滑步。所以距离更短、速度稍快可能更适合这类运动员，否则就沦为美化版的慢跑了——他们真会这么对待。

With team sport and tempo, it is interesting, and I'm glad you mentioned the distance just because I feel tempo for team sport is often a lot more shuffly than track and field in terms of movement quality. So having that shorter and probably even a little faster is probably a good thing for those athletes. Otherwise, it could just be a glorified jog. They'll treat it as that.

距离越长风险总是越大，而跑步力学在更高速度下总会有所提升。

Longer is always more risky, and running mechanics always get better with higher velocities.

对，没错。你们在长距离冲刺训练中会加入什么内容吗？比如你说的那种混乱电路训练，10码或20码那种？或者有没有类似节奏跑的训练，比如更长距离的，可能是80到102码，但会超级组合搭配其他训练项目？

Yep, yeah, yeah. Do you do anything with, so with some of the longer sprints, you you talk about the scramble circuits, like 10 yards or 20, or do you do anything that's like a tempo, like a longer, maybe it's 80 to a 102, but with but super set that, like circuit that with other things?

不，我不做那些。我的混乱电路训练纯粹是力量爆发，我只关注乳酸阈值。我不追求大量左右交替重复动作。所以这就是为什么要求100%全力——从地面弹起，脱离训练状态，尽可能快地冲刺，但我们只跑10米，然后立刻走回来。

No. I don't. My scramble circuits are pure power, and I'm only interested in lactate. I'm not looking for lots of right, left, right, left repetitions in those So that's why it's a 100% is get up off your butt, off, out of the exercise, sprint as quickly as you can, but we're only going 10 meters, and we're walking right back.

明白了。这些10米左右的快速混乱训练，是不是应该安排在低强度日？因为这种训练根本达不到常规工作所需的高速度。

Got it. And those scrambles circa 10 meter but fast, would those go on a low day just because you're never getting up to that high velocity in its general work?

没错。通过限制冲刺距离来控制运动员承受的组织负荷量。完全正确。

Yeah. Limits the amount of tissue load that the athletes experience by limiting the distance of the sprint. Correct.

好的，理解了。这让我想起查理·弗朗西斯说的——我们只能在特定日子做特定训练。但回顾我的团体运动经历，当时我经常做这些短距离变向训练，表现还不错。如果教练让我们每天跑30米冲刺，我肯定就废了。正是因为距离短且能快速恢复，我才适应得更好。观察游泳教练时也发现，即使在低强度日，他们也喜欢用高速动作收尾，我现在很认同在低强度日穿插爆发性训练的做法。不过说到底，你并没有跑到30米那么远，不会真正让轮子全速转动。

Yeah, got it. That's for, yeah, I think that's for those things where, back to the Charlie Francis, we can only do this on this day and this, but I think about back to my team sport experience where I was doing these short change of directions all the time and still did pretty well. I think if our coach had us run fly thirties every day, I would've blown up. Because it was that short in the turnaround, I could recover better, and yeah, I think that's where those it is, in watching swim coaches too, being around swim training, I notice a lot of times on those, even their low days, they like to finish with just a touch of speed, like something that's higher velocity, and I've really come to appreciate those low days sprinkling things that are more explosive in there. But ultimately, you know, you're not getting up to 30 meters and really turning over the wheels.

这种训练具有可恢复性。强度足够低档位，能提供更多动作选择空间。

It's recoverable. It's it's low gear enough that there's more movement options here.

而且他们做的也是针对特定赛事或特定运动的。你知道吗？每个运动项目，尤其是竞速类，最后阶段都要冲刺，所以这种技术模式其实不错。

And it's event specific or sports specific is what they're doing too. You know? Everybody every sport, every racing sport, you kick at the end, so that's not a bad technical model.

是啊。我还有几个关于力量训练房的问题要问你，亲爱的，我也在网上征集了一些大家想问你的问题。希望今天能有时间聊几个。关于力量房的问题让我稍微回想了一下，因为我在想：我之前问过你这个问题吗？我们第一次做播客时我有没有问过你？

Yeah. A few more I have a few weight room questions for you, boo, and I also asked some people online what questions they had for you. So hopefully I have time for a few of those here. The weight room question I had for you and I had to of rack my brain a little bit because I was thinking, have I asked Boo this yet? I don't did I ask you this the first podcast we did?

想听听你对超最大离心训练的看法。就是那种过载训练，比如使用重量释放器，杠铃下放时比举起时更重的那种训练方式。你对这种方法怎么看？

But thoughts on super maximally centric. So overload, like you have weight releasers, the weight bar weighs more on the way down than the way up, that kind of training. What's your take on that method?

实际上，对于高水平运动员，我会让他们做一些杠铃接抓训练——就是让他们下坠接住杠铃再发力。某种程度上我是认可这种训练的。在精英运动员的某些训练周期里，我也会采用类似方法。这不是缓慢下降，而是类似坠落后的瞬间再接住，因为我需要那种瞬时超高负荷。不过...如果你不介意，我想先退回一步回答你的问题。我坚信力量训练应该建立档案——就是说要有最大力量（慢速发力）、爆发力和反应型力量这些分类。

I actually, with high level athletes, do a little bit of bar catches, where they kind of fall into the bar and then have to so I'm fine with that to some extent, And there are certain blocks in training with the elites that I do something that's pretty similar. And it's not a slow descent. It's like a a drop and then a re catch, so to speak, because I want that instantaneous super high load. But but if you don't mind, let me regress a little bit with your question. Like I'm a firm believer in a strength profile, meaning that, you know, you have your maximal or your slow forms of strength, you have your explosive strength, and you have your reactive types of strength.

总的来说，我认为我们在很多情况下过分强调了最大力量的重要性。我观察这些抓举动作的方式，更多是从专项角度出发。至于那些慢速的超最大离心收缩训练等形式，在我看来，它们只是整个最大力量拼图中的另一块碎片。你知道吗？让我感到失望的是，在体能训练领域的表现指导中，我们不断设计出越来越多提升最大力量的方法，虽然都很有效，但最大力量对许多运动项目其实并不那么关键。你大可以去奥运会田径赛场挥动魔法棒——

And I just generally think that we overvalue maximal strength in many situations, and I kinda look at this and and the way I the way I do it with those catches, I look at it as more specific. But as far as the slower forms of supramax eccentrics or whatever, to me, they're just another form or another part of the whole max strength puzzle, so to speak. You know? And, it it just disappoints me that in the performance coaching world of the strength and conditioning strength and conditioning profession, that we just continually are devising more and more ways to improve maximal strength in diverse manners, all of them being very effective, but when maximal strength is not that important in so many sports. You you can go to the Olympic Games track meet and wave a magic wand.

让每个人的深蹲成绩提高50磅，但没人会因此跑得更快，因为那种力量形式并不具备高度专项性。我真心希望我们这个领域能像钻研最大力量那样，以同样精密的方式研究爆发力、速度和加速度的发展。回到你的问题：如果我进行基础的最大力量训练，达到需要进阶的阶段时，想通过多样化训练来改变适应机制、寻求不同的刺激反应，这完全合理。但再次强调，别把它包装成万能药，也别过度神化最大力量的作用。

Everybody's squat goes up 50 pounds. Nobody runs better because ultimately, that's not a form of strength that's ultra specific there. And I just wish as a culture that we were driven to be as sophisticated in our in our approaches to power development and speed development and acceleration development as we are there. So to answer your question, you know, if I do some basic, you know, max strength training and I get to a point where I need to progress further, and I'm looking for a way to diversify it and change the adaptation, the stimulus to produce a more different type of adaptation, that's perfectly fine. But once again, let's not sell it as a magic bullet, and let's not, again, overvalue the whole max strength piece, period.

记得我刚入行执教时，作为痴迷肌肉训练的橄榄球教练，我曾是深蹲先生——因为当时认为就该这么做。但后来我逐渐意识到，当运动员深蹲达到某个水平后，继续增加重量通常会导致他们动作变慢、爆发力下降，逐渐丧失弹性爆发特质。正因如此，我现在坚信力量发展必须建立完整的专项化图谱。

You know, I just remember early in my coaching career, you know, when I started off as a muscle head guy, I was a football coach for a long, long time, and I was Mr. Squat because that's what we were supposed to do. And I just started realizing that once guys got to a level where they could squat so many pounds, increasing the squat beyond that, typically they got slower and they were less explosive. They kind of lost they lost touch with the explosive side, with the elastic side as a result of that. And and that's why I'm a firm believer in a strength profile.

你知道吗？这只是我个人的观察，如果进行深度次极限训练，比如低于平行深蹲，超过约2.2倍体重的负荷后，实际效果并不会再提升。那我们为何还要不断寻找新方法来突破这个极限？这只会打破平衡。不久前我和一支职业橄榄球队合作，有位教练问我：'我们队防守线球员能深蹲700磅（约318公斤），可为什么还是会被对手轻易突破？'

You know? It just, it's just my personal observation that if like a deep sub maximal, you know, a sub parallel squat, you get below, above like 2.2 times body weight, nothing really gets better after that point. So why are we continually just trying to come up with new ways to drive that? It it's it it just takes things out of balance. You know, I was working with the pro football team not that long ago, And I was talking to one of the coaches, and they were asking, we don't understand this, but, like, we got guys on our defensive line who can squat 700 pounds.

我当时提出力量曲线的问题。如果你需要整整一秒才能达到最大功率输出，而对手在三分之一秒内就发起冲击，那你再强壮也无济于事。或者如果你的缓冲能力不足——有些人被撞击后能吸收冲击保持机动，有些人却像保龄球瓶般瞬间溃散。我想强调的是：力量曲线远比单一数据指标重要。

Like, why, why are we still getting blown off the ball? And I was bringing up the point of a strength profile. If it takes you a full second to get up to maximum power output and you're engaging the person across the line in a half third of a second, it doesn't matter how strong you are. Or if your ability to amortize is poor. Some people can get hit and they can absorb and they can move off and stay functional.

回到你最初的问题，我有时会采用非常相似的方法，但我希望这不会被神化成颠覆训练体系的'银弹'，因为它确实不是。明白吗？

Some people get hit and they're like a bowling pin. I was trying to point out how the strength profile is ultimately more important than the numbers in any one particular area. So bringing it back to your original question, I do some things at times that are very, very similar, but I'm just hoping that this is not like the magic bullet that's gonna revolutionize training and all of that because it's not. You know?

确实。我的观点大致是——这在线上指导时尤其容易实施——你不可能让独自训练的人去找配重释放装置，或叫两个人帮忙卸杠铃片。我觉得安格斯·罗斯提出的基础方法就很实用：比如在腿弯举机上做'两上一下'这种局部而非全身的动作。

Yeah. Where I've fallen on it more or less, and I also find this is much easier to implement when working with online clients. It's not necessarily you have someone who's working out by themselves and say, hey, let's get yourself some weight releasers. Find two people to take a weight off the plate off the bar. I find just doing simple stuff, and I think I got this idea from Angus Ross of just like a basic two up, one down, like on a machine or something like that, like a leg curl, two up, one down, things that are more local than global.

这就是我的折中方案。如果能通过提升速度、爆发力、动作模式和整体力量使人变强，那再好不过。我记得自己当年举重数据大幅提升，正是因为增强了超等长训练——当我投掷铅球时，所有相关表现都在进步，这种良性循环比单纯在健身房硬拉数字更有意义。

That's where my happy medium is, versus if I can get someone stronger through being good at the speed, and power, and movement, and then strength altogether, then that's great. And I just remember as well-being, seeing my weight room numbers go up tremendously because my plyos were getting really good, and because I was getting faster, my throws, even going out and doing shot throws for max backward shot for distance over it, all that stuff was getting better, and I felt like that was also helping push my weight room versus just trying, I guess you could say, drag it up by going in the weight room and trying to drag everything else with you type mentality.

完全正确。快速离心收缩产生的组织负荷远超其他训练方式，而传统健身房根本实现不了。我们这辈子都被灌输'力量决定速度'的谎言，实际上速度对力量的促进作用可能更大。

No, you're totally right. You know, fassy centrics produce more tissue load than anything else you do, and you really can't do fassy centrics in the weight room. So we've been kinda sold a bill of goods. You know, all our lives, we've been told you get stronger, you get faster, speed drive strength as well, and maybe even more so. Yeah.

是啊。我一直想试试1080Quantum那种自动调节阻力的器械——固定轨迹更稳定省力。虽然还没机会体验，但现在训练模式实在太多了。这也是我请教你关于基础力量与动作整合的原因：或许该先问'这些新方法之前，基础打好了吗？'

Yeah. One of these days, haven't tried one of those ten eighty Quantums, like the machine one that does it for you. I feel like if I was, like, just having the ease of that, like, it's easier, you're stable, you're locked in, and I don't know. I wanna try it one day, but yeah, it's an interesting, there's so many ways to, there's so many modes out there, and I think that's, again, one of the reasons I wanted to ask you about just the general strength and the movement piece, because I think maybe a way of thinking about it is like, okay. Like, there's those methods, but did you do this first?

你是否尝试通过爆发力训练增强力量？那些训练对你有帮助吗？你注意到了吗？还有，你的动作是否流畅？你的平衡和正确落地姿势是否足够好，恢复能力如何？我觉得是的。

Did you try to get strength through your did the plyos help make you stronger? Have you noticed that? And just are you moving well? Is your balance and proper reception good enough, and your capacity to recover? I think it yeah.

这是个涵盖广泛的方程式，这也正是它有趣的部分原因。

It's a wide ranging equation, and that's part of what makes it fun too.

没错，力量的配方就是神经刺激和组织负荷。你知道吗？我曾经指导过一名投掷运动员，每周一我都让他做大量深蹲训练持续了一段时间，然后停练了八周、两个月，再重新加入深蹲。我的志愿助理教练看着训练计划大惊失色，说我们两个月没练深蹲，怎么能直接上95%强度。

The recipe yeah. The recipe for strength is neurostimulation and tissue load. You know? I had a guy one time I coached, he was a thrower. I squatted him unmercifully every Monday for for a while, and then I took the squats off for, eight weeks, two months, and then I put them back in, and my volunteer assistant coach was looking at the paper and freaking out, like, we can't squat it 95% because we haven't squatted in two months.

我就说没事，他肯定没问题。果然他完全适应。你看，当时那位助理教练没明白的是，我们同时在进行短跑、爆发力训练、举重等项目——这些都能提供神经刺激。爆发力和短跑训练本身就能产生极高的组织负荷。只要有神经刺激和组织负荷，就没有理由认为力量会下降或无法维持，明白吗？

And I'm like, no, he'll be fine. And sure enough, he was perfectly fine. You know, see what he didn't understand at that point in his career that we were doing all the sprint stuff, the plyo stuff, the Olympic stuff, we had neurostimulation, The plyo stuff and the sprint stuff were producing really high levels of tissue load. Again, if you have neurostimulation and tissue load, there's no reason to think that you haven't produced strength or maintained strength or whatever, you know?

明白。布，我这里有几个听众问题要请教你，其中我想把关于罗马尼亚硬拉（RDL）与腘绳肌损伤预防的问题，和争议性的北欧式腘绳肌训练合并提问。你对健身房常见训练——无论是RDL、北欧式、腿弯举——在促进腘绳肌健康和发展方面的看法是？

Yeah. Boo, I have a few listener questions here for you, and I wanna make sure I get to these, and actually, I'm gonna merge with a question I had for you. And so someone asked your take on RDLs and hamstring injury prevention, and I want to lump that in with the controversial Nordic hamstring exercise. So just your take on different common exercises in the gym, be it RDL, a Nordic, a leg curl, where do you sit with those in terms of what's healthy for hamstrings and and development there?

首先，像RDL和北欧式这类训练，我偶尔会安排在循环训练里稍微涉及，但绝不会在重量训练中投入大量时间。因为就预防腘绳肌损伤而言，它们完全无效。即便让你每天做负重训练，一旦开始短跑你还是会肌肉酸痛——这说明短跑产生的组织负荷强度远超任何器械训练。

To be well, first of all, RDLs and Nordics and those types of things, every once in a while, I'll have one of those types of exercises in a circuit somewhere. So we'll kind of touch that stuff very, very little, you know, as part of a circuit training kind of format. But I don't like to invest significant amounts of weight room time and effort in those exercises because as far as preventing the hamstring injuries, they just are totally ineffective. They just don't work. You know, if I could have you do weights every single day, and then if I take you on sprint, you're going to get sore, that's because the level of tissue load that you achieve in a sprint is significantly higher than anything you're going to achieve in a weight room.

这些器械训练要么是向心收缩，要么是极慢速离心收缩，而最高强度的组织负荷只存在于快速离心运动中，比如爆发力和短跑训练。所以这些器械对预防腘绳肌损伤效果极差。根据我个人观察（非研究数据），它们反而可能增加前十字韧带（ACL）风险，因为会疲劳膝关节周围的关键稳定肌群。常见的情况是：某个训练计划中出现腘绳肌受伤，人们就归咎于腘绳肌力量不足——其实根本不是。

So what you're doing is you're operating in something that's either concentric or maybe very slow eccentric, whereas the highest levels of tissue loads are in your fast eccentrics, like your plyos and your sprinting stuff. So these exercises fail miserably when it comes to hamstring injury prevention. And in fact, my personal observations, no research, but my personal observations, is that they become more apt for ACL because you're fatiguing some key stabilizers in the area of the knee as well. And then what typically happens is in a lot of programs, hamstring get injury or two, and oh, wow, we must be weak in the hamstrings. No, you're not.

如果你们的腘绳肌薄弱，那些孩子根本不会从事这项运动。要知道，腘绳肌受伤是因为来自上方或下方的生物力学力量传递不当。归根结底这是生物力学问题，但我们却归咎于力量不足，于是开始用各种训练狂轰滥炸。结果导致该区域疲劳，我们还不断加码，有时情况会急剧恶化。我见过一两例腘绳肌问题演变成大规模伤病潮，就是因为高强度的罗马尼亚硬拉、北欧式训练等方案的过度实施。

Those kids wouldn't be in the sport if you were weak in the hamstring. What happened, you know, the hamstring injuries happen because biomechanical forces from above or below are just improperly transmitted. It's a biomechanical issue is what it ultimately is, but we assume it's strength, so we start nuking kids with these exercises. What happens next is they're fatigued now in that area, and we just like to fuse on it, and sometimes it gets a lot worse. I've seen one or two hamstrings erupt into major epidemics because of the implementation of high dosages of RDLs and Nordics and those types of things for that reason.

所以人们问我：'Bo，你怎么增强腘绳肌或预防损伤？'我的执教团队三十五年来从未出现腘绳肌损伤，原因有三：第一，我精通动作力学教学；第二，我重视灵活性胜过绝对力量；第三，最关键的是——我让他们持续进行冲刺训练。

So people ask me, well, Bo, what do you do for hamstring strength or prevent hamstring injuries? I haven't had a hamstring injury in my personal coaching group in thirty five years, and there's three reasons why. Number one, I know how to teach the mechanics. Number two, I value mobility more than I value maximal strength. And number three, most importantly, I sprint them all the time.

'你做什么训练？没听明白吗？'我让他们持续冲刺，这就是我的预防方案。必须通过快速离心收缩训练腘绳肌，才能产生足以形成保护的组织负荷水平。如果训练达不到这个效果，那就是在浪费时间。

What exercise do you do? Didn't you listen to me? I sprint them all the time, meaning that is my hamstring prevention. I have to train the hamstring with fast eccentrics in order to produce the levels of tissue loads that are generally going to protect it. If I'm doing something that doesn't do that, I'm wasting my time.

当然我并非完全不在力量房训练腘绳肌，但我的训练方式是深蹲、弓步、台阶训练等——通过完整动力链维持腘绳肌训练。曾有教练告诉我，他带的选手在百米半决赛跑出10秒整，决赛却拉伤了。那人竟说'这孩子腘绳肌太弱'。要是真弱，半决赛怎么可能跑10秒？我们早该摆脱'所有伤病都源于力量不足'这种思维定式。

Now that's not to say that I don't do hamstring work in the weight room, but my hamstring work is called squatting, or lunging, or step ups, or whatever the case may be, meaning that I maintain hamstring training through entire chains, you know, using the entire kinetic chain in that in that scenario. You know, I had a trainer one time told me, we had a kid run, like, I saw a kid run 10 flat in the 100 meter semifinal, pull the hamstring in the final. And the trainer had the nerve to tell me, well, that kid's hamstring must be weak. Well, if the kid's hamstring was weak, how the hell did he run 10 flat in the semifinal? You know, we we just have to get out of this mentality that every injury is driven by a strength deficit.

事实并非如此。问题在于灵活性不足，以及动力链的力量传递不当。

It's not. It's mobility issues and improper force transmission through those kinetic chains.

确实。关于北欧式训练众说纷纭，具体实施也千差万别。就我个人使用经验而言，始终严格控制剂量且采用辅助形式——绝不会让人做四组五次，结果下倾10度就瘫倒在地那种练法。

Yeah. I think, yeah, there's a lot of differing opinions on the Nordics. A lot of different implementations too. I'm sure there's coaches who and I in my use of them, I was always mindful of very low doses and usually assisted, like, not versus like, hey, we're gonna do four sets of five, and people are, like, falling after they're, like, 10 degrees down type thing.

没错。

Yeah.

我认为有多种不同的方式来实现我刚才说的那些，我会偶尔在训练中加入一两个动作。

I think there's different ways Well, to do all those I said, I'll throw one

但如果说我们必须投入大量时间在这上面才能产生效果，那完全是错误的。

or two into a circuit every once in a while. Yeah. Yeah. But to say that this is going to we have to invest mass amounts of time in this, we're gonna produce this benefit, that's totally false.

也许在某些情况下

Maybe in some

确实如此，但我亲眼见过也实践过。

there, but I've seen it. I've done it.

是的。这更像是回归到你最初提到的通才思维——如果我们把某个训练动作（无论是北欧式训练还是罗马尼亚硬拉之类的）单纯视为防伤手段，而不是以更全面的视角来对待：确保跑步姿势正确、合理控制训练量、追求最大速度但不过度训练，同时注重多方向运动能力的发展，保持各方向的灵活性。对我来说，这种思路比单一化训练更全面。

Yeah. It's it's something where I maybe it's almost back to what you said at the beginning of the generalist mentality is if we treat one exercise, be it a Nordic or an RDL or something like, hey. We do this exercise so we don't get hurt, versus a more generalist perspective of, hey, we try to make sure we run well, we manage our volumes of work well, we try to hit max velocity, we don't overdo things, And we also have a multilateral movement emphasis. Like, we try to move in different directions and maintain mobility in different directions. To me, that's a little bit more general, a little more broad ranging than, okay.

我们只做这个单一动作。你觉得...我在想这是否就是人们争论北欧式训练时的焦点？在我看来，这可能正是争议所在，因为我认为北欧式训练如果执行得当效果很好，我个人也喜欢规范的动作，但或许争论更多集中在这方面。我也不确定，只是...

We just do this one thing. Do you I mean, do you feel like maybe I I wonder if that is that maybe more like when people talk about Nordics or debate Nordics? As I see it, maybe that's more the debate just because I think Nordics can be done well in my opinion, and I I like them when they're done well, but maybe it's little bit more of that. I don't know. I was just, you

你知道，你想

know, You wanna

我想我在考虑——

think I think about-

记住这一点，手——理想情况下。预防伤害总是针对组织负荷的，明白吗？所以如果你做北欧式训练来预防做北欧式训练时的伤害，这说得通，但用北欧式训练来预防高速短跑伤害就不合理了，这就是我的意思。如果你因为其他价值想把它们纳入训练计划，尽管去做。但我要说的是，北欧式这类练习经常失效，因为它们远未达到短跑中腘绳肌实际承受的组织负荷水平。

Remember this, hand- Ideals. Injury prevention is always specific to tissue load, okay? So if you do Nordics to prevent injuries while you do Nordics, that makes sense, but it doesn't make sense to do Nordics to prevent high speed sprinting injuries is what I'm saying. And if you want them to be a part of your program because of some other value that you find, go for it. But I'm just saying, this is the point I'm making, that Nordics and those types of exercises fail on a regular basis because they do not come anywhere close to the levels of tissue load that a hamstring receives in an actual sprint.

它们唯一的共同点就是都会给腘绳肌带来压力，但这些压力类型截然不同。我只想彻底说清楚，这就是我的核心观点。

The only thing they have in common is they're both hamstring stressors, but these types of stressors are wildly different. I just wanna be perfectly clear, and that's what I'm ultimately saying.

是啊。关于腘绳肌，我想到很多，这又回到你说的那个十秒运动员的例子——哦，他腘绳肌太弱了。我在运动医学领域经常听到这种说法。有人受伤了，运动医学专家就说：'他臀肌太弱'。而我心想，那孩子前天还深蹲了275磅呢。不是说这重量多惊人，但你知道，能完成这个的人不可能那么弱。感觉他们总喜欢把问题...

Yeah. One thing I think a lot of the hamstrings, and this back to your point with the ten second athlete who, oh, he has weak hamstrings, or I would hear this all the time with sports medicine. Someone's injured, and the sports medicine person's like, well, they have weak glutes, and I'm thinking to myself, oh, that kid squatted, like, two seventy five the other day. I I mean, I don't know. Like, not that that's, like, the house, but I'm like, you know, you can't be that weak and do some I mean, it just seems like there's always these these how do they like?

归结为单一因素，而不是采取更全面的视角。当时我孩子们在

It's just one thing. You wanna reduce things to one thing versus taking maybe a more generalist approach. And I was in my kids were in

游泳

swim

课上是三四周前的事，那天我很忙没训练。所以在泳池里边陪宝宝玩——我19岁的'宝宝'。间隙时我就尝试各种水中腘绳肌练习。如果你做那种腘绳肌弹振训练，就是对着弹力带发力那种？可能稍后再请教你。我当时交替做着类似B式踏步和骑行腿动作，就像短跑那样。但在水里做这些时，腘绳肌根本感觉不到什么张力。

lessons three, four weeks ago, and I had a busy day, so I didn't get to train. So I'm in the pool kinda playing around with the baby, you know, my baby who's 19. But in between, I didn't get a workout in, so I'm like messing around with like different hamstring exercises in the pool. And I'm doing a so like, it's interesting if you do you know those hamstring tantrum things, like, where you just kinda like go, like, into the band? Maybe I'll ask you about that one too, but I I was alternating doing kinda like a b skip or a cycle, you know, like, just a leg cycle, like you're sprinting, and if you do that in the water, you don't really feel any tension in your hamstring per se.

你能感觉到它在起作用，但这并不是真正的紧张感。但如果你把小腿或脚伸到前面，像摆动后期那样上下抽动，膝盖前的小腿来回摆动，你会感觉到腘绳肌紧绷。这让你意识到，当你比较优雅的循环动作与快速抖脚的区别时，就能体会到如果时机不对，腘绳肌会承受多大的张力。我正试着表达这个意思。当我这么做时，我觉得不行。如果你的时机真的很差，即使你很强壮，结果也可能很糟糕，甚至可能导致更严重的拉伤，我不确定。这就是为什么我喜欢这个发现。但有趣的是，那天之前我的左腘绳肌有点酸痛，第二天在水中探索玩耍时却感觉异常舒服。我当时想，天啊，这太棒了。

You feel it working, but it's not, like, real tension, but if you take your shin or your foot in front of you and you twitch it up and down like a late swing phase, and that shin is twitching back and forth with the knee in front of you, you feel your hamstring, like, tense, like, But it makes you realize when you do the difference between that, like a nice cycle versus a rapid fire foot shaking in front, you feel just how much tension could land in the hamstring if the timing was off, is what I'm trying to say. And as I'm doing it, I'm like, no. If you have really bad timing, you can be really strong, and it could still end pretty poorly for you, and it might just be, almost might be a bigger pull up, I don't know. That's why I like the what, but coincidentally, funny, I had a little, my left hamstring had been a little sore before that day, and I actually felt really freaking good the next day, just exploring and playing in the water. I was like, oh man, this is awesome.

你学到了

You learn

所以这一切只是想说明，这提醒了我时机有多么重要。

a So all that's to say is I was just, that reminded me just how important timing is.

是的。整个动作序列的安排是其中的关键部分。你提到臀肌无力什么的。我毫不怀疑当那位教练或治疗师说这话时，那位运动员躺在检查台上接受测试时确实表现出了无力。

Yeah. And, you know, so the whole sequencing thing is a big piece of it. Know? You mentioned glutes are weak or whatever. I have no doubt that when that trainer or that therapist said that, that when that athlete was on that table and they were testing, I have no doubt that they did test weak.

但他们测试显示无力的原因在于，由于身体排列不齐或神经抑制等因素，他们处于生物力学上的劣势。所以他们的无力并非因为缺乏锻炼，单纯加大训练量无济于事。更何况如果运动员本身已处于高强度训练阶段，许多康复训练的动作强度反而低于他们的日常训练水平。这样怎么可能有帮助？比如我每天在教练指导下举100磅，却只在训练师那里举10磅，这10磅怎么会有提升效果？

But the reason why they test weak is because they are at a biomechanical disadvantage because of misalignments, or they're neurally inhibited, or something along those lines. So they're not weak because they aren't being exercised, nuking them with exercise is not going to help anything. Then if you've an athlete who's already training at a real high level, a lot of the rehab exercises that you're gonna do are below the level of what they're doing in their normal training. So how's that gonna help? You know, if I'm picking up a 100 pounds every day with a coach and I'd lift 10 pounds with the trainer, explain to me how the 10 pounds is gonna help.

归根结底就是毫无帮助。

It's the bottom line is that it won't.

对。这完全是另一回事。而且我发现肌力测试也是这样。治疗师可以有意无意地让肌肉测试结果显得无力，如果他们真想这么做的话。另一位听众Boo询问了关于短跑浮动、短跑训练方案的问题。

Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's such a different story, and I find too, like, muscle testing. A therapist can do anything to make a muscle test a week, a lot of times subconsciously, if they really want to. So another listener, Boo, asked about sprint float, sprint prescriptions.

在运动员训练中，你是如何推进他们进步的？比如，你从哪里开始，最终随着运动员水平的提高，会达到什么样的层次？

How do you progress those in your training with athletes? Like, where do you start, and then ultimately, what's, like, the levels you get to as an athlete improves?

我并不推进。当我感觉运动员准备好进行冲刺-滑行-冲刺训练时——明确一下，这是作为最大速度发展的工具——我不会刻意推进他们。我的做法是，当我认为运动员已充分准备就绪，他们已完成足够的加速发展训练，组织负荷已达到安全水平时，我会为每位运动员制定个性化训练方案。在设置这些冲刺-滑行-冲刺训练时，我总是希望第一段冲刺能达到约1秒的最大速度窗口，第二段冲刺达到2秒。所以我设计好方案，摆放好标志筒，然后执行。

I don't progress. When I feel like an athlete is ready for sprint sprint float, sprint, just to be clear, as a development tool for maximal velocity, I don't progress them. What I do is when an athlete I feel is adequately prepared for them, they've done enough acceleration development where I've accomplished enough tissue load to make them safe, then I write an individual prescription for that athlete as far as like what the course is gonna look like. I wanna always, when I set these sprint float sprints up, I want to have about a one second window of maximal velocity in the first sprint segment and a two second window in the second sprint segment. So I write that I I figured that out, and I put those cones out, and we do it.

最终我不会改变方案，因为这些参数是针对特定运动员设定的。唯一可能需要调整的情况是，如果运动员变得更强壮、更有爆发力，导致他们达到最大速度的位置在冲刺过程中发生变化，这时我可能需要延长标志筒间距或调整位置。但我真的不会推进训练难度。这是我们坚持的训练方法，本质上我不会随意变动。我们只是持续投入时间，通过重复训练来获得价值。

And ultimately, I don't change because those are the parameters for that particular athlete. The only thing that might change is if an athlete gets stronger, more powerful, and as a result, the point at which they achieve maximum velocity moves in their sprint, then I might need to lengthen cones or move cones around or something like that. But I really don't progress. It's something that we do as an exercise, and I really don't vary it, per se. It's just something that we invest time in and we value from the repetition.

如果说存在进步，那进步体现在运动员逐渐做得更好。明白吗？有时你可能设计一个训练计划，连续三周保持不变。这并不意味着没有进步。就像运动员第一次做时并不完美。

If there's any progression, the progression is in the fact that athletes are just not, they get better at it. You know? Sometimes you might write a workout, and the workout's the same for three consecutive weeks. That doesn't mean there isn't progression. Like the first time the athlete did it, they didn't do it perfect.

第二次做得更好，第三次可能又有所提高。这就是进步所在。进步表现为在我们既定训练框架内表现的提升，而不一定是训练计划每周都要做出改变。

The second time they did it, they did it better. The third time, they probably got better still. So that's the progression. The progression is just improved performance within the context of what we're doing, not necessarily anything that changes on the workout paper from week to week to week.

明白了。对于冲刺-滑行-冲刺训练与10码/20码/30码飞行冲刺，你有什么偏好或看法吗？

Got it. Do you have any preference or thoughts on sprint float sprint versus flying tens, twenties, thirties?

冲刺-滑行-冲刺组合更复杂。确实如此。有位短跑教练曾打电话跟我说：'嘿，我们在做你那种冲刺-滑行-冲刺训练，他们在第一段冲刺表现得非常出色。'

Sprint float sprints complex. Yeah. They're more complex. You know? Like, I had a sprint coach called me one time and he says, boo, we're doing your sprint float sprint stuff, and they look great in the first sprint segment.

他们在浮动阶段表现很好，但在第二个冲刺阶段，他们很难重新调整动作机制。我的回答是，这正是你进行训练的原因。之所以这样做，是因为对他们来说这在一定程度上具有挑战性。是的。说到飞行训练，达到最大速度并保持状态多跑15或20米并不难。

They look great in the float segment, but in the second sprint segment, they they're having a hard time getting their mechanics back together. And my answer was that that's why you do it. You do it because it's challenging to them to some extent. Yeah. You know, when it comes to fly work, it's not hard to get to max velocity and keep your you know what together for an extra 15 or 20 meters or something like that.

但在冲刺流程中，这就很有挑战性了。别误会我的意思。如果一个人不是擅长冲刺的人，飞行训练要安全得多。明白吗？比如我是橄榄球队的防守截锋，我就不会做冲刺-浮动-冲刺训练。

But in the sprint flow, that's challenging. Don't get me wrong. You know, if a person is not a sprint person or a sprint proficient person, fly work is much, much safer. You know? So if I'm if I got the defensive tackle on the football team, I'm not doing the sprint float sprints.

我会根据个人情况适当进行飞行训练。但我的观点是，对于擅长冲刺的人来说，这种结构更具挑战性，因此能从中获益更多。

I'm gonna do the fly stuff appropriately individualized distance wise. But my point is is for sprint proficient people, it's a more challenging construct, and therefore, get more out of it.

是的。这让我想到，就像最大离心力量的概念，仿佛直接跳到最高点，比如超级最大值或最大冲刺速度，但中间其实有很多协调性需要完善。就像你说的，冲刺-浮动-冲刺训练中，协调性会打断节奏然后重新建立。我个人非常喜欢这种训练。对我而言，我几乎发现如果计时第二段，速度比飞行训练还快，或者可能更快，因为确实有些特别之处。

Yeah. It kinda makes me think, even to the max eccentric strength type idea, it's as if the the is just to skip right to whatever the highest is, just like the super max or the the the max toast speed, but there's a lot of coordination that could be filled in along the way, and part of that is, yeah, like you said, that sprint float sprint, there's the coordination interrupting the rhythm and then getting it back. And I I love that stuff. Like, for me, personally, I I love sprint, float, sprints, and I find I almost am faster if you time my second segment. It's almost faster than a fly, or it could be faster than a fly, because there's just something Yeah.

我觉得这会关闭我的...协调性。我认为这其中也存在一些分化。嗯。是的。

Think it shuts off my Yeah. Corporation think there's some differentiation that goes on too. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.

同意。那么你会不会做比如先加速，然后第一区一秒，接着浮动，第二区两秒这样的安排？

Agree. So do you do, like, build, and then there's zone one, that's one second, then a float, then zone two, that's two seconds type thing.

我的做法是，假设有个运动员在40米处达到最大速度。我会把第一个锥筒放在50米处。这样他们全力加速，在40到50米之间达到最快速度。

What I do is, let's assume that I have an athlete who is, let's say they reach max velocity at the 40 meter. What I'll do is I'll put my first cone at 50. So they're accelerating maximally. They reach their maximum velocity. Then from 40 to 50, they're as fast as they can possibly be.

那大约是一秒钟。然后我会放入浮动区，通常第二个冲刺区大约是20米，因为这通常能给你两秒钟的时间。

That's about one second. And then I'll put the float zone in, and typically the second sprint zone is about 20 meters because that's what will normally give you two seconds.

好的。明白了，说得好。那么，听众Boo的最后一个问题是，在你实验阶段和构建系统时，有没有什么让你记忆深刻的错误？比如，我试过这个，结果完全行不通的那种，其中最大的一个是什么？

Okay. All right, good stuff. Okay, so last question from the listeners here, Boo, was there a memorable, back when you were in your experimentation days and putting together your systems, was there any memorable mistakes you made? Like, oh, I tried this, and it totally didn't work type that you it was the biggest one of those.

这就是为什么我和一些教练争论这些时，如果我不确定，我不会争论，Joel。我想你明白我的意思。有时候当我争论这些观点时，我就告诉他们，听着，我不是没试过你们的方法。实际上，我今天在这里热情讨论的所有事情，我弄明白不是因为我聪明，而是因为我失败了，老实说。

That's why when I argue this stuff with some coaches, like, I don't argue if I'm not sure, Joel. Mean, I think you know that. And sometimes when I argue some of these points and such, I just tell them, look, it's not like I didn't do it your way. Practically all of the things that I've been passionate about here today, I didn't figure it out because I'm smart. I figured it out because I failed, to be honest with you.

你知道吗？而且，不是自夸，但有时候人们跟我说，作为一个取得很多成就的教练，你挺谦虚的。我的回答是，是的。如果你像我一样失败过那么多次，你也不会太自负或太傲慢，老实说。你知道，我来自足球背景，带着一种肌肉至上的哲学，完全不懂速度。

You know? And, not not patting my back, but sometimes people talk to me and they say, oh, you're pretty humble for a coach who's done a lot. And my answer is, yeah. If you fail as much as I have, you're not gonna be very conceited or very cocky, to be honest with you. You know, I came from football with a with a muscle head philosophy, did not understand speed at all.

那时全是关于深蹲和呕吐，你知道的，我花了好一阵子才明白。我认为真正帮助我的是，我总是诚实地自我评估，可以这么说。但天哪，那个清单太长了，老实说我都说不完。循环训练，是的，我现在很擅长，但早期我设计过那么多糟糕的循环训练，孩子们看起来像是在进行死亡行军之类的。

It was all about squatting and vomit, you know, and and it took a while for me to understand. And and and I think the thing that really helped me was I was always truly honest in my own self evaluation, so to speak. But my god, that list is so long. I can't even get into it, to be honest with you. Circuit training, yeah, I'm good at it now, but I wrote so many garbage circuits back in the early days where, you know, kids it looked like death marches and things of that nature.

你知道吗？然后有时候，我意识到你最终不能太固执。有时候，老实说，我学到的一些东西，比如我在高中级别执教时，有些孩子因为训练太艰苦而退出队伍。后来我发现，当我不做那些让他们退出的训练时，留下的运动员实际上进步了。我只是诚实地进行了自我评估。

You know? And then, you know, there were times, you know, when I I just realized that you can't be hard headed about things ultimately. And and sometimes, you know, frankly, some of the things I learned, you know, I had kids who were like I was coaching in the high school level, and some of them would quit the team because it was all too hard. And then I realized when I didn't do the stuff that made them quit, that the athletes that stayed actually got better, you know? And I was just honest in my self evaluation.

所以我打算回避这个问题，因为实在太多了。太多了。

So I'm gonna defer that question just because there's so many. So many.

是啊。就像我说的，几乎每一个

Yeah. Like I said, practically every

我担任过的职位，没错。几乎我所有的职位都源于我在某个时间点上的某次失败。

position I have yeah. Practically every position I have comes from something I failed at at some point in time.

嗯，我一直在思考那个问题。这是个好问题，也是个很难在播客尾声突然抛出的问题——说说你最大的错误。是的，我很想看看你是否还保留着那些旧电路图。

Yeah, I was thinking about that question. It's a good one. It's a tough one to spring out of your way at the end of the podcast. Tell me your biggest mistake. Yep, I would love to see if you have those old circuits written down somewhere.

我相信大家会看得津津有味。值得花时间好好看看。

I'm sure people would get a kick out of it. Would trying time to like, watch it.

你下次再邀请我，对，我可能会打断你，但趁我还记得——下次我来的时候，我会准备好我的十大历史性失误清单，巴布，给我一小时整理后我会给它们排个名次。行吗？

You have me back, yeah, next time I may interrupt you, but while I'm thinking of this, next time I have you back, I'll have my top 10 all time screw ups, Babu, and I'll rank them after I've had an hour to kind of think of it. Okay?

其实这个问题我提前给你打过预防针。非常感谢，虽然还有其他听众提问，但这三个是主要想讨论的。对了，本·西蒙斯本来还想问关于综合力量训练的事——本，我们想到一块儿去了。我觉得综合力量训练这部分，那种运动方式，实在太重要了。

Yeah, I actually got you a little bit ahead of time on that one. So, well, thank you so much, but we had some other listener questions, but those are the main three I wanted to cover. Also, Ben Simons also was gonna ask about the general strength. I was like, you're on the same brainwave with me, Ben. I think that general strength piece is just I think it's just so important, that movement.

所以，真希望他们有卖DVD。如果有人感兴趣的话，我想问那套包含动作清单的DVD标题叫什么来着？

So, you know, I wish they sold DVDs. I mean, if people are interested, I was gonna say that that what's the title of that DVD with the inventory, the movement inventory?

我有一本叫《提升运动表现训练》的书，可能就是那本。我还有关于设计循环训练之类的资料。是的，不是打广告，但我已经不再制作DVD了。

I have one called exercises for sports performance. It might be that one. I also have one about designing circuit training and so forth. Yeah. Not to plug, but I don't do DVDs anymore.

有家公司叫Ascent（拼写为a s e n t），即Ascent田径诊所，他们现在基本上在做所有这些内容，并且拥有那些产品。如果有人感兴趣，那是个很棒的公司。他们也为许多其他优秀教练做了很多好事，如果你想找这类资料，那里会是个不错的选择。

There's a company called Ascent, a s e n t, Ascent Track and Field Clinics, and they are basically doing all that stuff now, and they have all those products. If anybody's interested, it's a fantastic company. They do a lot of other good things for a lot of other good coaches as well, and that would be a nice place to look if you're interested in some of those materials.

是的，太棒了。听着的人们可以去看看。那是张很棒的DVD。虽然我们已经过了DVD这种恐龙时代，但它确实是我资料库里的珍宝。非常感谢你，Boo。再次和你交谈真是太愉快了。

Yeah, awesome. Well, that's, yeah, anyone listening, check that out. It's a great DVD. It's sad that we're past that dinosaur age of DVDs, but it's definitely a, it's treasure in my library, so thank you so much, Boo. It was wonderful talking to you again.

我一直很享受和你的对话，谢谢这次交流，谢谢。

I always enjoy talking to you, so thanks for the conversation, Thank

谢谢你，Joe。我道歉，有几次我有点啰嗦，可能没涵盖所有内容，但我总是很享受和你的谈话。每次叙旧都很愉快，已经期待下次见面了。

you, Joe. I apologize. I got a little long winded a few times, and maybe didn't get to everything, but I always enjoy talking to you. It's always nice catching up. Looking forward to next time already.