如何控制情绪并从负面情绪中获益——与伊桑·克罗斯的对话

欢迎来到《快速大脑》，专为忙碌人士准备的短小精悍的大脑技巧，助你学得更快、成就更多。我是你们的教练，吉姆·奎克。

Welcome to Quick Brain, bite sized brain hacks for busy people who wanna learn faster and achieve more. I'm your coach, Jim Quick.

释放你的

Free your

思维。想象一下，如果我们能发挥大脑100%的潜能。我不是在亢奋，也不是在兴奋，只是头脑清晰。

mind. Let's imagine if we could access 100% of our brain's capacity. I wasn't high. I wasn't wired. Just clear.

我知道我需要做什么以及如何去做。我会功夫。展示给我看。欢迎回来，快速大脑们。我是你们的主持人兼大脑教练，吉姆·奎克。

I knew what I needed to do and how to do it. I know kung fu. Show me. Welcome back, Quick Brains. I am your host and your brain coach, Jim Quick.

今天，我们将学习如何理解你的情绪，它们是什么，为什么重要，以及最重要的是，如何驾驭它们。我们的情绪，无论是积极的还是消极的，都是我们用来驾驭世界的工具。它们影响着我们爱上谁、讨厌谁。它们激励我们加班加点以实现梦想，并且在维持与他人的紧密联系或陷入充满冲突的关系中，往往是决定性的因素。然而，尽管情绪对我们的生活影响深远，但很少有人能获得基于科学的指南，告诉我们如何调节情绪的音量，无论是调高还是调低，或者如何优雅地从一种情绪状态过渡到另一种。

Today, we'll be learning how to understand your emotions, what they are, why they matter, and most importantly, how to harness them. Our emotions, both the positive and the negative ones, they are tools that we use to navigate the world. They influence who we fall in love with and who we dislike. They motivate us to stay longer hours at work to realize our dreams, and they are often the difference maker when it comes to sustaining close bonds with others or becoming mired in relationships fraught with conflict. And yet, for all their profound impact on our lives, few of us receive a science based guide for how to turn the volume on our emotions either up or down or how to transition gracefully from one emotional state to another.

我们的嘉宾伊桑·克罗斯是情绪调节领域的顶尖专家之一。他是密歇根大学顶尖心理学系和罗斯商学院的获奖教授。他还是情绪与自我控制实验室的主任，并曾参与白宫的政策讨论。他是《转变》一书的作者，如果你在YouTube上观看此视频，可以观看这次访谈的扩展版本，《管理你的情绪，以免它们管理你》。欢迎来到节目，伊桑。

Our guest, Ethan Cross, is one of the leading experts on emotional regulation. He is an award winning professor at the University of Michigan's top rank psychology department, and it's Ross School of Business. He is also the director of the emotion and self control laboratory and has participated in policy discussions at the White House. He is the author of shift, which if you're watching this on YouTube, where you could watch the extended version of this interview, managing your emotions so they don't manage you. Welcome to the show, Ethan.

谢谢邀请我，吉姆，也谢谢你那非常非常棒的介绍。

Thanks for having me, Jim, and thanks for that lovely lovely introduction.

我们为什么不从这里开始？为什么不先定义什么是情绪，以及从你的角度来看，为什么它们常常难以管理？

Why don't we start here? Why don't we define what what are emotions, and why, from your perspective, are they often difficult to manage?

所以情绪，你可以把它们看作是我们遇到世界上有意义的事件或在脑海中想象这些事件时被触发的反应。这几乎就像当我们遇到这类事件时，大脑中加载了一个软件程序，理想情况下帮助我们应对那种情况。因此，当我们使用情绪这个词时，实际上是在谈论一套协调的反应，一套松散协调的反应。你的身体里正在发生一些变化。你的思想可能会专注于某些信息，并且你实际上会有一种特定的感觉，脸上可能还会有表情。

So emotions, you could think of them as these responses that are triggered when we encounter events in the world or when we imagine events in our minds that are meaningful to us. And it's almost like when we encounter such events, it's like a software program gets loaded up in our brains to help us ideally manage that circumstance. And so when we use the term emotion, we're actually talking about a coordinated set of responses, a loosely coordinated set of responses. Things are happening in your body. Your thoughts may be tuned to certain kinds of information, and and you actually feel a particular way and maybe have an expression on your face.

所有这些情绪反应的不同部分都是为了帮助我们以最佳方式应对我们所处的环境。让我说得更具体一点，因为这有点抽象。假设我正在经历愤怒的情绪。当我们对世界的看法被违背时，我们就会体验到愤怒。对吧？

All of those different parts of this emotional response are designed to help us navigate the situations we find ourselves in optimally. And so let me make that super concrete because that's a little abstract. Let's say let's say I'm experiencing an emotion of anger. We experience anger when our view of the world is is transgressed. Right?

事情不应该是这样的。并且你有一个机会可以做些什么来修复这个情况。当我们意识到这种情况时，我们就会有这种愤怒的反应。对吧？我们会变得充满能量。

This isn't the way things are supposed to be. And there's an opportunity that you can do something to fix the situation. When we register that circumstance, we have this anger response. Right? We we we get energized.

我们的注意力会聚焦于眼前的问题。我们常常能从别人的脸上看到愤怒，这为他人提供了信息。当它以恰当的比例被激活时，这有时会非常有帮助。不要太强烈，也不要持续太久。什么样的情况会是同样有用的呢？

Our attention zooms in on the problem at hand. We can often see the anger in someone else's faces, which is providing other people information. And that can sometimes be very helpful when it's activated in the right proportions. Not too intense, not too long. What might be a situation which is as useful?

我是一个家长。我希望我的孩子安全。如果我看到我的孩子做了危险的事情，我就会感受到这种情绪。对吧？如果我看到我年幼的女儿骑自行车不戴头盔，这在我们家是不允许的。

I'm a parent. I want my kids to be safe. If I see my kids do something that is dangerous, I am gonna feel this emotion. Right? If I see my young daughter ride her bike without a helmet, that's a no no in our house.

我会体验到这种愤怒的情绪。它会激励我去处理这个情况，去面对我的女儿，解决它。她会从我脸上看到我正在经历这种状态，这会为她提供信息，从而改变她的行为方式。至于这种情况是否会发生，那就是另一回事了。但这只是一个例子，说明我们通常称之为负面情绪的东西实际上可以是具有功能的。

I'm gonna experience this emotion of anger. It's gonna motivate me to approach the situation, confront my daughter, deal with it. She's gonna see on my face that I am experiencing this state, and that's gonna provide info to her to change the way that she's behaving. Now whether or not that happens, that's another story. But that's just one example of how an what we typically call a negative emotion can actually be functional.

我相信我们所有的情绪，甚至那些我们称之为负面情绪的情绪，都是有功能的。当它们在恰当的比例下被激活时，它们是有用的。希望这个信息能让听众感到解脱，对吧？因为我们经常听到人们说，你应该努力过一种完全没有负面情绪的生活。

And I am of the belief that all of our emotions, even the ones we call bad emotions, are functional. They are useful when they are activated in the right proportions. That's hopefully a message that listeners find liberating. Right? Because we often hear you should strive to live a life free of all negative emotions.

首先，祝你好运。但这并不是我们人类的本性构造。我们天生就会体验这些情绪是有原因的，而且它们常常在帮助你。吉姆，回想我的职业生涯，我像你一样经常做公开演讲。当我回想那些演讲效果不如其他时候的情况，什么时候它不是一次A+级的奇妙体验呢？

Like number one, good luck. It's not the way that we are built. We are built to experience those emotions for a reason, and it's often helping you out. Jim, if I think about the times in my career, I do a lot of public speaking like you do. And if I think back to the times when a presentation didn't land as well as the other ones, when wasn't it an a plus magical experience?

往往是在我事先没有感到任何焦虑的时候。结果就是，我内心没有任何信号来提醒我说，嘿，傻瓜，专注于此，这样你才能准备、练习。对吧？所以一点点焦虑真的很有用。但过多的焦虑，那就是我的书《转变》的主题，因为这些非常有用的反应常常变得无益，因为情绪是难以驾驭的工具。

It tended to be the times when I didn't feel any anxiety beforehand. As a result, there was no there were no cues inside me to essentially say, hey, dopey, focus on this so you can prepare, practice. Right? So a little bit of that anxiety, really useful. Now too much of it, that's the topic of my book Shift, because oftentimes these very helpful responses, they become unhelpful because emotions are unwieldy tools.

我们常常体验到与所处情境不成比例的情绪。当这种情况发生时，问题就是你该怎么办？好消息是，有很多很多的事情你可以做。像我这样的科学家已经花费职业生涯来试图识别这些方法是什么。

We often experience them out of proportions with the situation we're in. And when that happens, then the question is what do you do about it? And the good news is there are lots and lots of things you can do. And scientists like myself have have spent their career trying to identify what those things are.

那么，你会如何提炼出《转变》背后的核心思想？为什么对我们的听众来说，学会更有效地管理情绪至关重要？

So what would you distill that is the core idea behind shift, and why for our listeners is it crucial for them to learn how to manage their emotions more effectively?

嗯，《转变》背后的关键思想是，首先，我们所有的情绪都是有用的。当它们在恰当的比例下被激活时，它们是工具。但正如我们作为这个星球上的人类所知，很多时候，我们的情绪会占据上风。我们进化出了一套非凡的工具来帮助我们在这些情况下应对，但我们并没有得到如何在生活中实施这些工具的用户指南。因此，《转变》旨在为读者提供那份基于科学的、易于理解的用户指南。

Well, the crucial idea behind shift is that, number one, all of our emotions are useful. They're tools when they're activated in the right proportions. But as we all know from being human beings on this planet, oftentimes, our emotions get the best of us. And we evolved a a remarkable set of tools to help us in those situations, but we don't get a user's guide for how to implement those tools in our life. And so what Shift intends to do is provide readers with that science based accessible user's guide.

这样，当你发现自己陷入困境时，就不必等待偶然找到解决方案。我在书中谈到了一项精彩的研究，该研究试图索引一天中你清醒时有多少时间在体验情绪。研究人员发现，人们醒着的时候大约90%的时间都在感受某种情绪。

So you don't have to wait to stumble on a solution when you find yourself spinning, so to speak. There's this wonderful research I talk about in my book that that tried to index how much time during the day when you're awake are you experiencing an emotion. And the researchers found about 90% of the time that people are awake, they are feeling something.

哇。

Wow.

这是我们作为物种的一部分。我们不断感受着各种不同的情绪反应。研究有力地表明，你管理这些情绪的能力——增强或减弱其强度，延长或缩短其持续时间，甚至从一种情绪转换到另一种情绪——这种能力预测了我们所有人都非常关心的生活结果。它直接关系到你的思考和表现能力。嗯。

This is this is part of who we are as a species. We are constantly feeling different kinds of emotional responses. And the research compellingly shows that your ability to manage those emotions, to increase or decrease their intensity, to lengthen or shorten their duration, or even to shift from from one emotion to another, that capacity predicts outcomes in life that all of us care a great deal about. It is directly relevant to your ability to think and perform. Mhmm.

它预测了你人际关系的质量，并且不仅对你主观幸福感（这至关重要）有直接影响，还对你的身体健康有直接影响。

It predicts the quality of your interpersonal relationships, and it has direct implications for not just your subjective well-being, which is critically important, but also your physical health.

你在书中介绍了一些基于科学的策略来管理情绪。当某人情绪失控时，你觉得哪种技巧或工具在效果上最让人惊讶，或者你是否有默认的首选方法？

You introduce a number of science based strategies, for managing emotions in in your book. When someone's spinning or which technique or tool do you find most people are surprised by in terms of effectiveness, or do you have a default in terms of where you your go to?

当我发现自己需要管理情绪时，我有一套默认的反应方式。我做的第一件事是使用一套我称之为视角拓宽转换器的方法。当我们陷入某种情绪状态时，我们往往会非常狭隘地聚焦。我们会专注于引发那种情绪反应的情境特征。天哪。

So I have a default set of of responses when I find myself needing to manage my emotions. The first thing I do is I use a set of what I call perspective broadening shifters. When we get stuck in an emotional state, we often zoom in really narrowly. And we we we focus on the features of the situation that are driving that emotional response. Oh my god.

发生了什么？或者如果这发生了怎么办？当我们专注于情境中那些挑衅性的特征时，它会延续我们的情绪反应。因此，有时我们很难仅仅改变对环境的看法。人们常说，为什么不往好的方面想呢？

What happened? Or what if this happens? And when we focus in on those provocative features of the situation, it it perpetuates our emotional response. And as a result, it can sometimes be really hard for us to just change the way we think about our circumstances. People often say, why don't you just look on the bright side?

改变你的思维方式。是的，这听起来很棒，但说起来容易做起来难。有时重新构建我们的思维方式并不那么容易。其中一个技巧，如果你愿意这么说的话，是帮助人们重新构建他们正在经历的事情，即改变他们的视角。有很多不同的方法可以做到这一点，其中一些非常简单。

Change the way you think. Like, yeah, that sounds really great, but easier said than done. Sometimes it's not so easy to reframe how we're thinking. One of the hacks, if you will, for helping people reframe what they're going through is to change their perspective. And there are lots of different ways you could do this, and some of them are really simple.

所以我要做的第一件事是使用一种叫做‘距离自我对话’的工具。吉姆，我猜一下。我不太了解你，希望将来能更了解你。但我猜你可能有过这样的经历：在你生命中的某些时候，给别人提建议比遵循这些建议要容易得多。

So the first thing I'll do is I'll use a tool called distanced self talk. Jim, I'm gonna guess. Don't know you very well. I hope to get to know you more in the future. But I'm gonna guess you probably had an ex this following experience where you have found it at times in your life easier to give advice to other people than to follow that advice to yourself.

这个假设合理吗？

Is that a fair assumption to make?

当然。是的。我想很多人都会有同感。

Sure. Yeah. Would imagine imagine a lot of people could relate to that.

这几乎是我们普遍都有的一种体验，对吧？我们常常能够给别人提供很好的建议，帮助他们解决大问题。但当自己陷入困境时，要从中走出来就困难得多。不过，你可以利用人类这一特点来为自己谋利。

This is close to a a universal experience we we have. Right? We can often dole it out, give really great advice to other people who are struggling with big problems. But when we're mired in the problem, much, much more challenging to wait through it. Well, you can you can harness that feature of how people work to your benefit.

距离自我对话就是一种方法。我会默默地尝试用我的名字和‘你’来指导自己，给自己提建议。比如我可能会想：‘伊森，你打算怎么处理这种情况？’使用这些词汇的作用是改变你的视角。大多数时候，我们用‘你’这个词是在思考或指代别人。

Distance self talk is a way to do it. I will silently try to coach myself through a problem and give myself advice using my name and you. So I might think to myself, Ethan, how are you going to manage this situation? What using those parts of speech does is it shifts your perspective. Most of the time that we use the word you, it's when we're thinking about or referring to someone else.

这个词就像是言语上的‘指向’。所以当你用这个词或你的名字来指代自己时，你就进入了思考另一个人的模式。这使得我们更容易明智而客观地解决问题。这也是我们拥有的最不费力的工具之一。接下来，我会叠加另一组工具，我称之为‘心理时间旅行’。

That word is the verbal equivalent of pointing a finger. So when you use that word or your name to refer to yourself, it's putting you in this mode of thinking about another person altogether. And that makes it much easier for us to wisely and objectively work through our problems. Also happens to be one of the most effortless tools that we possess. I'll then layer on another set of tools that I call mental time travel.

我通常会做的第一件事是‘前往未来’。我仍然会用我的名字和‘你’来和自己对话。‘好了，伊森。下周、下个月、明年你会怎么看待这件事？’就像你一样，吉姆，我在这个世界上经历了无数情感波动。

First thing I'll typically do is travel into the future. And I'll and I'll still talk to myself using my name and you to do this. Alright, Ethan. How are you gonna feel about this next week, next month, next year? I, just like you, Jim, have lived through millions of emotional episodes over the course of my existence on this planet.

这些情绪发作的有趣之处在于，它们几乎都遵循一个特定的时间过程。你的情绪被触发，然后升高，随着时间的推移，最终会逐渐消退。即使是生活中的许多大事也是如此。

And what's interesting about those episodes, almost all of them follow a specific time course. Your emotions get triggered. They elevate. And then as time goes on, they eventually fade. Even lots of the big things in life.

对吧？随着时间的推移，它们的强度会逐渐减弱。这条规则总有例外，比如我们可能正在应对的慢性状况，但我们大多数情绪体验都遵循这个逻辑。当我们深陷焦虑、悲伤和愤怒之中时，往往会忽略这一点。跳进心理时间旅行机，问自己：下周、下个月、明年你会对此感觉如何？这自然会让你想到，无论你正在经历的事情有多糟糕，最终都会好转。

Right? As time goes on, they gradually fade in their intensity. There are always exceptions to this rule, chronic conditions that we may be dealing with, but most of the emotional experiences we have follow that logic. We lose sight of that in the heat of the moment when we're struggling with our anxiety and our sadness and our anger. Jumping into the mental time travel machine and asking ourselves, how are you gonna feel about this next week, next month, next year, Automatically makes accessible the idea that as bad as what you're going through is, it will eventually get better.

这进一步有助于降低我们情绪的音量，使其更易于管理。最后我要提到的是，我也可以跳进这个心理时间旅行机回到过去。这对改变我的视角也非常有用，但作用方式略有不同。如果我正在为一个问题挣扎，我会回到过去，可能会想：过去我是如何处理类似情况的？

That further helps turn the volume on our on our emotions down, making them more manageable. So the last thing I'll mention is I can also jump into this mental time travel machine and go into the past. And that's also really useful for me for shifting my perspective, but it works a little different. If I'm struggling with a problem, I'll go back in time, and I might think, how have I dealt with other kinds of circumstances like this in the past?

有没有什么时候，逃避我们的情绪、不活在当下反而对我们有利？如果有的话，我们如何知道何时该表达，何时该压抑？你想自信地记住在这个播客中听到的信息吗？你想提高记忆力，轻松自信地记住名字和面孔、客户信息、脱稿演讲、学习另一门语言、记住所读内容等等吗？

Is there ever a time where avoiding our emotions and not being in the moment ever works out well in our favor? And if so Yes. Like, how do we know when to express and when to suppress? Do you wanna be able to remember confidently the information that you hear on this podcast? Do you wanna improve your memory to easily and confidently be able to remember names and faces, client information, give a speech without notes, learn another language, remember what you read, and so much more?

有一个解决方案，我称之为你的快速回忆。只需每天15分钟，持续30天，我设计了终极课程——如何解锁你的快速回忆。只需访问 quickbrain.com/recall，输入播客代码15，即可立即享受折扣，作为收听我们节目的感谢。

There's a solution, And I call it your quick recall. In just fifteen minutes a day, for thirty days, I've designed the ultimate course, how to unlock your quick recall. Just go to quickbrain.com/recall. Enter podcast 15 for your immediate discount as a thank you for listening to our show.

逃避是个很好的问题，因为我最常听到的信息之一是，你永远不应该逃避困扰你的事情。确实，这是我成长过程中接触到的信息。我被教导要尽快处理问题，面对它，解决它，然后继续前进。到了研究生院，我也听到了同样的说法，对吧？

Avoidance is a great question that you're asking about because one of the most common messages I hear is that you should never avoid things that are bugging you. And indeed, that was a message that I was exposed to growing up. I was raised to always deal with the problem as soon as it happens, confront it, work through it, move on. I got to graduate school, heard the same thing. Right?

逃避是不好的。但事实证明事情没那么简单。关于这一点已有研究。是的，长期逃避问题确实与负面结果 consistently 相关，有大量文献支持这一点。我所说的长期逃避是指，你有一个规则。

Avoidance is bad. Turns out it's not that simple. So there's been research on this. And yes, it is true that chronically avoiding problems is linked with negative outcomes consistently, and there's a large literature on that. What I'm saying with chronic avoidance is you've got a a a rule.

每次你被激怒或触发某种情绪时，你都会选择不去想它。你会全面保持这种回避反应。这并不好。试图通过从事危险行为或使用违禁物质来分散注意力也不好。当人们这样做时，结果往往不会太好。

Every time you are provoked or triggered in some way, you're just gonna not think about it. And you're gonna maintain that avoidant response across the board. This is not good. It is also not good to try to distract yourself by engaging in risky behaviors or taking illicit substances. Tends not to work out well for people when they do that.

但在如何应对和回避方面采取策略性方法确实非常有用。对吧？所以你不需要在只应对或只回避之间做选择。你可以来回切换。我必须承认，吉姆，我在自己的生活中很晚才接受这一点，但这确实带来了改变。

But being strategic in how you approach and avoid can be really useful. Right? So you don't have to choose between only approaching or only avoiding. You can move back and forth. And I and I must confess, Jim, I was late in the game to embrace this in my own life, and it's really made a difference.

由于我的成长方式，当我直接或在邮件中面对信息时，我通常倾向于应对这种情况并处理它。但我学到的是，有时花些时间离开，分散注意力，回避那个问题几个小时甚至几天，然后再回来处理，可能会非常有用。有时我花时间离开。当我回到问题时，我意识到根本没有问题。对吧？

So because of the way I was raised, when I get confronted with information directly or in an email, I'll typically want to approach the situation and deal with it. What I've learned is sometimes taking some time away, distracting myself, avoiding that issue for a few hours or even a few days, and then coming back to it can be remarkably useful. Sometimes I take the time away. When I come back to the problem, I realize there is no problem. Right?

这只是在大局中微不足道，时间的流逝帮助我意识到了这一点。在其他情况下，我会花些时间离开，我会回避，然后当我回到问题时，我会发现它仍然存在，但不再那么强烈，而且当我应对时有了不同的视角，我可以更有效地处理这个问题。这就是在如何应对和回避方面采取策略性方法。现在，弄清楚何时应该应对、何时应该回避是一门艺术。如果你发现，例如，你的回避尝试总是让你不断产生反复出现的想法，迫使你想要应对某种情况。

It just it this was insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and the passage of time helped me realize that. In other in other situations, I'll take some time away, I'll avoid, and then when I come back to the problem, I'll find that it's still there, but it's not quite as intense, and I have a different perspective when I approach it, and I can engage more productively with this problem. That is being strategic in how I approach and avoid. Now there's an art to figuring out when you should approach and when you should avoid. If you find, for example, that your attempts to avoid, you keep on getting these recurring thoughts compelling you to want to approach a situation.

这意味着要么你没有投入沉浸式的分散注意力的活动，但如果你无法在特定时间段内真正摆脱它，你可能需要处理当前的情况。反之亦然。如果你发现试图解决问题时没有任何进展，你只是在脑海中反复思考，让问题变得更严重、感觉更糟，那可能是一个提示，需要暂时回避或采取另一种策略。我在书中还分解了其他几种策略。有一个类似于决策树的方法，指导何时应对、何时回避、何时来回切换。

That means either you're not engaging in an immersive distractor, but you might need to actually deal with the situation at hand if you can't actually get away with it for a specific period of time. The flip side though is also true. If you find that trying to work through the problem, you're not making any progress, you just continue to turn it over and over in your minds in ways that make the problem grow and feel even worse, that might be a cue to avoid for a little while or engage in another kind of strategy. And I break down a few others. There's a kind of like a decision tree that that follows when to approach, when to avoid, when to go back and forth in the book.

是的。这确实强调了认知和情感灵活性的重要性。我很好奇，想结束这次对话，这一集。现在有没有一件你正在学习或研究的事情让你感到兴奋？

Yeah. This is really underscoring the the the importance of cognitive and emotional flexibility. I'm curious to to finish this conversation, this episode. Is there is there one thing right now that you are currently learning about or studying that has you excited?

哦，是的。是的。我的意思是，我首先是一名科学家，当我想到改善我们对情绪调节生活的理解时，我仍然会有一种孩子进糖果店般的兴奋反应。让我向你和所有听众提出我认为我们现在在该领域面临的大问题。回想过去几十年的研究，科学家们在识别我们今天讨论的那种个体工具方面做得相当不错，并仔细研究了这些工具，剖析它们如何工作，你知道，它们何时有效等等。

Oh, yeah. Yes. I mean, I I'm a first and foremost, you know, a scientist, and I still have a kid in the candy store response when I think about improving our understanding of our emotion regulatory lives. And let me let me let me present to you and everyone who's listening what I think is the big the big question we now face as in the field. Think if you look back at the past few decades of research, scientists have done a pretty good job at identifying individual tools of the sort that we've talked about today and carefully carefully studying those tools, profiling how they work, you know, when do they work, and so forth.

我们尚未完成的是研究这些工具如何最优地协同工作。它们如何组合？嗯。以及不同的工具组合如何在不同情境下对不同的人起作用？我希望你能带着你正在挣扎的具体不同情境来找我，我就能为你开出不同的工具组合，完美地帮助你应对每一种不同的情况。

What we have not yet done is study how these tools work together optimally. How do they combine? Mhmm. And how do different combinations of tools work for different people in different situations? I wish you could come to me and present me with a specific different set of circumstances that you're struggling with, and I could prescribe to you different combinations of tools to perfectly help you deal with each of those different situations.

我无法开出那样的处方，我认识的任何科学家也不能，因为我们还没有那样的知识库。但这正是我们正在努力做的事情，发展那种非常细致、精细的理解，关于工具如何组合。所以对我来说，这是该领域等待的一个非常激动人心的机遇。不过我想提醒听众的是，与此同时，你不必等待我们提出那些原则。你可以开始自己尝试这些工具进行自我实验。

I cannot make that prescription nor can any scientist that I know of because we don't have that knowledge base yet. But that is precisely what we are trying to do, develop that very nuanced fine grained understanding about how tools combine. So that to me is a very exciting, opportunity that awaits the field. What I'd to remind people who are listening what I'd like to remind people who are listening to this though is, in the meantime, you don't have to wait for us to come up with those principles. You could start self experimenting yourself with these tools.

这些是简单的工具。你知道，它们或多或少没有副作用。这些不是你摄入的物质。尝试一个工具。如果有效，就继续使用它。

These are these are simple tools. The, you know, they're they're they're side more or less side effect free. These aren't substances you're consuming. Try a tool out. If it works, keep using it.

再叠加另一个工具。看看它如何影响你的情况。如果你发现某个工具对你效果不佳，就换另一个。我认为这是目前摆在每个人面前的挑战，也是一个很容易利用的挑战。

Layer on another tool. See how that affects your circumstances. If you find a tool is not serving you well, move on to another one. That's the challenge I think that presents itself to everyone right now, and it's one that is an easy challenge to avail yourself of.

太棒了。我们可以和你聊上几个小时。Ethan Cross，我们的听众在哪里可以了解更多关于你的信息，更深入地了解你的工作？他们在哪里可以买到这本书？如何与你联系？

Amazing. We could talk to you for hours. Ethan Cross, where where can our listeners get more of you, go deeper in your work? Where do they get the book? How do they connect with you?

也许通过一些社交媒体或你的网站？

Maybe some social media or your website?

是的。我的网站很棒。上面有书的链接、关于书的信息、我的实验室、我的社交媒体账号，网址是 www.ethankrosswithak,kr0ss.com。我也在Instagram和LinkedIn上。

Yeah. My website's great. It has links to the book, information about the book, my lab, my social media accounts, www.ethankrosswithak,kr0ss.com. And I'm also on Instagram and LinkedIn.

太好了。那么你的书《Shift》在各大书店都有售吗？

Perfect. And your book, Shift, is available where where books are sold?

所有书店均有销售，快去拿一本吧，希望你能从中获益。

Wherever books are sold, grab a copy, and I hope you find it enriching.

太棒了。强烈推荐。伊桑，非常感谢你抽出时间。各位听众，一如既往，我们在jimquick.com/notes上提供了所有提及内容的链接，包括克罗斯博士的社交媒体、他的网站、这本书以及我们的节目笔记。同时，你还可以在我们的YouTube频道上找到更多激发潜能、提升心智的方法，那里有这期节目的加长版。

Amazing. Highly recommend it. Ethan, thank you so much for taking time. Everyone listening, as always, we put links to everything mentioned that doctor Cross mentioned, his social media, his website, the book, and our show notes at jimquick.com/notes. And as always, you can find out more ways to fuel your your potential, your mental potential on our YouTube channel where we post the extended version of this episode.

这期节目远远超过了二十分钟，希望你能在YouTube上收听和观看。不妨点击订阅来支持我们，留下评论，我会逐一阅读，并告诉我们你的想法。我是你的大脑教练，吉姆·奎克。

This episode went a lot longer than twenty minutes, so I hope you listen to it and watch it on YouTube. You could certainly hit subscribe as a way of supporting us. Leave a comment. I read every single one, and let us know what you think. This is your brain coach, Jim Quick.

下次再见。愿你们突破极限。

Until next time. Be limitless.