Jamie Lynn Sigler Returns!

口袋大得惊人。

Huge so pockets.

太可爱了。

Cute.

我当时是想买来着。

It was

138美元。

a $138.

我真后悔没在去旅行前买下它，接下来天气超棒，春意盎然，还有点凉风，正适合穿。

I'm mad that I didn't get that for the trip I'm about to go on because it's gonna be beautiful spring weather with, like, a brisk breeze, you know, and stuff

特别适合换季穿的皮夹克，版型还比较宽松。

like like a good transitional leather jacket, and it's kind of loose.

不是那种勒得死死的类型。

So it's not one of those that are, like, super constricting.

里面套件毛衣啥的都完全没问题。

So you can wear, like, a sweater underneath it or whatever you want.

我太喜欢了。

I love it.

根据我的肤色分析，这颜色简直太适合我了。

Of my colors according to my It is.

就是色彩分析那套说法。

Color analysis.

这颜色特别适合我，我真的超爱，真希望每个人都能去买一件。

My color, but it I just love it, and I can't wait for everyone to go get it.

我们会放购买链接。

We will link it.

不过，咱们还是说回你，贝卡。

But, anyway, back to you, Becca.

母亲节快到了。

It's Mother's Day.

咱们得给你准备个礼物。

We have to get you a present.

现在正赶上一波超值优惠呢。

The bouquet of deals is happening right now.

Macy's网上有好多礼物，都不到50块，太棒了。

There are so many gift guys on macy's.com, $50 and under, which is amazing.

对。

Mhmm.

咱们可别一下子花到200块啊。

We don't wanna spiral into the $200.

现在大家日子都不好过。

Times are tough right now.

我还特别喜欢他们家的Macy's Backstage，全是25块以下的小礼物。

And then I also love that they have this thing called Macy's Backstage, which is gifts under $25.

比如一些贴心的小配件，口红套装、护肤品、手链、托特包，还有你超爱的那些可爱果冻凉鞋，Becca。

Like, thoughtful little add ons, and there's, like, lip kits, skincare, bracelets, tote bags, those cute little jelly sandals that you love, Becca,

就在这儿呢。

are under just there.

我又下单了一个颜色。

Ordered another color.

你买了？

You did?

是个小小的裸色。

A little nude color.

你戴上可真好看。

Oh, they're so cute on you.

真的超可爱。

That's really cute.

明白了。

Okay.

母亲节快到了。

So it's Mother's Day.

你母亲节想要什么？

What do you want for Mother's Day?

除了被淋浴之外。

Besides being showered.

是的。

Yeah.

还有你的外套，以及被爱和欣赏包围。

Your coat and being showered in love and appreciation.

你知道吗，我觉得春天的必备单品。

You know, I think the spring staples.

就是那种轻便外套、果冻鞋之类的。

I think the, you know, the light jackets, the jelly shoes.

我超爱润唇膏。

I do love a lip gloss.

我特别喜欢唇部用品。

I love a lip item.

我觉得，只要女生收到唇部用品，总会有点小开心。

I think that there's a little dopamine hit anytime a woman receives a lip item.

我不确定你怎么想，但就是觉得特别舒服。

I don't know how you feel about it, but something about it is just feels great.

你懂的吧？

You know?

对啊。

Mhmm.

等你找到合适的那款。

Once you find the right one.

是的。

Yeah.

我正看他们的节日礼物推荐呢，说实话，我老说这话，但梅西百货真是啥都有。

I'm looking on their gift guide right now, and it's just I always say this about Macy's, but they have literally everything.

你说，母亲节礼物推荐里会有什么？

And I'm like, what could be on the Mother's Day gift guide?

比如鞋子、化妆品之类的。

You know, like shoes, makeup, whatever.

他们有个超可爱的园艺套装，我从来没见过这么可爱的。

They have the cutest gardening set that I have ever seen.

就在第一页上。

Right on the first page.

不到五十块。

Under $50.

真的太萌了。

It's so freaking cute.

我最近刚开始搞园艺，确实挺需要这个的。

And as, like, a person that has a garden recently Yeah.

这玩意儿 Jared 会用，毕竟园子是他打理的，但我喜欢是因为它颜值高，太精致了。

Jared would be using that because he's the one that tends to our garden, but, like, I like it cause it's so aesthetic and cute.

太可爱了。

It's adorable.

没错。

Yes.

不。

No.

真的超可爱。

It's really cute.

昨天我跟我妈逛街，没想到光是看看那些漂亮的盘子、玻璃器皿，就让人特别开心。她一看见就说：‘我好喜欢这套玻璃杯啊。’

I was out shopping with my mom yesterday, and it it was surprising the dopamine of just, like, beautiful plates and, like, little, like she was like, oh, I love this glassware.

我当时就想：我们根本不招待客人啊。

And I was like, we don't entertain.

根本没人来家里，可我还是忍不住想买一套这么漂亮的四只杯子。

No one's coming over, but just, like, owning a new set of, like, beautiful four cups.

这叫好好犒劳自己。

Like, it's Treat yourself.

犒劳自己嘛。

Treat yourself.

马莎百货，我爱死你了。

Macy's, we love you.

真的要谢谢你们一直支持LadyGang，祝所有LadyGang的妈妈们和即将当妈妈的姐妹们母亲节快乐。

And, literally, thank you for keeping LadyGang going, and happy Mother's Day to all of our LadyGang moms and our moms to be.

但最重要的是，那个礼物指南。

But most importantly, that gift guide.

现在就去逛吧。

Go right now.

快去macy's.com给你妈妈挑份礼物。

Pick up your gift, macy's.com for your mom.

直接寄到家，省心省力。

Get it in the mail.

简单到不行。

Easy as breezy.

价格还特别亲民。

Super affordable.

我们太爱了。

We love it.

太喜欢了。

Love it.

我真的超爱。

I love it.

贝卡，把那双鞋的链接放上来。

Link those shoes, Becca.

好的。

I will.

谢谢梅西百货。

Thanks, Macy's.

谢谢送我的外套。

Thanks for my coat.

我超喜欢。

I love it.

梅西百货。

Macy's.

本集由BetterHelp赞助。

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

前往 betterhelp.com/ladygang 注册，立享九折优惠。

Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/ladygang.

就是 betterhelp.com/ladygang，别搞错了。

That's betterhelp, help,.com/ladygang.

有个冷知识，五月是心理健康宣传月。

Fun fact, May is mental health awareness month.

提醒你一下，不管你现在经历什么，你都不必一个人硬扛。

And this is a reminder that whatever you're going through, you don't have to go through it alone.

对我来说，每周二固定和心理咨询师聊聊，不管心情好还是坏，真的改变了我的生活。

For me, having a therapist that I talk to every Tuesday, whether things are good or bad, has really changed the game.

我特别信这个，因为有时候我们总把朋友当情绪垃圾桶，把一堆鸡毛蒜皮的事全倒给他们。

And I believe in this so much because I think sometimes we bog down our friends or our relationships with all these tiny minute details.

我想要的，是一个只站我这边、只属于我这边的人。

And I want someone that's just literally on my team and my team only.

BetterHelp 的咨询师都严格遵守职业规范，且在美国持有完整执业资格。

BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in The US.

BetterHelp 会帮你先做好匹配，你只需要专心投入治疗目标就行。

BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals.

他们有十二年多的经验，匹配成功率行业领先，一定能找到适合你的人。

With over twelve years of experience and a industry leading matching rate, you're gonna find your right person.

你不用一个人扛着这段路。

You don't have to be on this journey alone.

找个人陪着你，一起在治疗中前行。

Find support and have someone with you in therapy.

现在注册，还能享受 10% 折扣，网址是 betterhelp.com/ladygang。

Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/ladygang.

记住哦，betterhelp.com/ladygang。

That's betterhelp, help,.com/ladygang.

好了，我们继续回到 LadyGang 的话题。

Now back to the ladygang.

好了，各位姐妹们

Okay, gang.

今天我们演播室请到了一位嘉宾。她这一辈子都活得坦荡耀眼、又勇又飒，我们真的太喜欢她这份状态了

We have someone in our studio today who has been living out loud in the most beautiful, brave, and badass way for her whole life, and we're so here for it.

我们最早是通过《黑道家族》里的梅多·索普拉诺认识并爱上她的——那个黑帮老大的女儿，居然能让我们所有人都巴不得跟她当闺蜜

We first fell in love with her as Meadow Soprano, the mob boss's daughter who somehow made us all wanna be her best friend.

不过关于这位女士啊，还有个故事要讲

But here's the thing about this woman.

这一辈子她都在默默扛下了太多事，我们所有人以前都完全不知情。

She has been caring so much more throughout her life than any of us ever knew.

她才20岁就确诊了多发性硬化症，之后整整15年都一直瞒着这个病，就怕会毁掉自己打拼出来的一切。

Diagnosed with MS at just 20 years old, she spent fifteen years hiding it, terrified it would cost her everything that she worked for.

现在她终于决定不再隐藏，坦然面对自己完整的人生经历了。

And then she's now finally decided to own her whole story.

这段时间她忙着在《实习医生格蕾》里参演，饰演一位同样患有多发性硬化症的医生，这事真的太有意义了。

Lately, she's been very busy starring on Grey's Anatomy, playing a doctor with MS, which is huge.

她是个妈妈，是个妻子，是个倡导者，说真的，就是让贝卡·托宾的生活变得更好，也让我们所有人都变得更好的人。

She's a mom, a wife, an advocate, and honestly just someone who makes Becca Tobin's life better and all of ours better.

让我们觉得，当一个复杂又 messy 的普通人，完全没问题。

Making us feel like it's okay to be a whole complicated messy human being.

她在这本新 memoir 里，把台前幕后的所有故事都掏出来了——成名、恐惧、确诊、心碎，还有约会了一堆超帅的男生。

And now she's giving us all the behind the scenes stories, the fame, the fear diagnosis, heartbreak, dating tons of hot guys in her new memoir.

这是一本关于接纳与希望的回忆录，5月5号就上市了。

And so it is a memoir of acceptance and hope which is out May 5.

她把自己的秘密，变成了超能力。

She turned her secrets into superpower.

有请 LadyGang 的美丽、优雅、真正不可阻挡的朋友——杰米-琳·西格勒！

Please welcome the gorgeous, gracious, truly unstoppable friend of the LadyGang, Jamie-Lynn Sigler.

你好。

Hello.

我回来了。

Back.

谢谢。

Thank you.

这开场白太美了。

What a beautiful intro.

你好。

Hello.

咱们又聊回那些帅哥了。

We got back into the hot guys' pray

真该把这段话裱起来给孩子们看。

that and frame it for my kids.

完美。

Perfect.

谢谢。

Thank you

太感谢了。

so much.

我们想聊聊这本书。

We wanna talk about the book.

但在开始之前，我们先说说凯尔蒂和杰米的区别。

But before we started, we're talking about the the difference between Kelty and Jamie.

杰米根本不想知道她的预售数据是多少。

So Jamie does not wanna know any of her preorder numbers.

她已经跟出版社说过了。

She has told her publisher.

那为什么呢？

So why?

这到底是为啥？

Why is that?

嗯，我了解自己，我知道一旦看到数字，就会觉得有压力，好像必须达到某种预期。

Well, I I know myself and I know that I will feel like pressure for an expectation of a performance.

而且我真的把心都掏出来了写这本书，我最初写它，就是为了自己，为了疗愈，为了证明我付出了这么多努力。

And I also truly feel like I poured my heart and soul into this book, and it my reasoning for writing it initially was for myself, for my own healing, for me feeling like I've done so much work.

我做了大量的自我反省。

I've done so much soul searching.

我这辈子第一次拥有了这样一个温暖的社群，让我有勇气、有视角，去直面自己，重新梳理过去的人生。

I have finally held by such a beautiful community in my life where I feel brave enough and have the perspective enough to sort of have this reckoning and go back through my life.

这本书最初是为了我自己，为了疗愈，源于几年前我儿子重病那段时期——可能是我人生中最糟糕的经历。

And so this was initially for me and my own sort of healing and coming off a moment of probably the worst thing I ever went through when my son was really sick a few years ago.

现在它变成了我希望每个读者都能拥有的东西：在你跌到谷底、哭得稀里哗啦、觉得绝望无助、不知道下一步该往哪走的时候，能感受到你并不孤单。

And then now it's become this thing where it's what I wish for anyone who's reading it, that they would have this opportunity for themselves and feel less alone in those moments when you're on the floor and you're crying and you feel hopeless and you feel helpless and you don't know what is next.

正因为我和这本书有这么深的情感连接，我不想让销量、表现这些外在的东西，稀释了我内心对这本书的珍视和骄傲。

And so, because I have such an attachment to that, having a performance then and feeling like if it does well or not, like I don't want anything to take away from the preciousness and the pride that I already feel in the book.

你明白吗？

Does that make sense?

我觉得一想到要盯着数字，就会玷污这种感觉。

So I think like having to think about numbers will like taint that, I feel.

这真的太美了。

That's very beautiful.

我知道凯尔蒂不这么想。

And I know that Kelty does not feel the same way.

嗯，

Well,

好的。

okay.

另一方面。

On the other side.

对。

Yeah.

健康。

Healthy.

首先呢，

First of all,

我不是说这一定是对的做法。

I'm not saying this is the right way.

不，不，不。

No, no, no.

我觉得这太美了。

I think it's it's so beautiful.

但与此同时，我觉得这本书确实如你所说。

But at the same time, I would say that the book is exactly what you said.

我的意思是，简直太棒了。

I mean, it's phenomenal.

真的，太感谢你了。

Like, it's it's Thank you.

太出色了。

Phenomenal.

而且，说实话，我读完之后就给你写了封

And, yeah, you know, I after I I read it, I wrote you an

一封特别美的邮件。

A beautiful email.

我的意思是，这书简直太棒了。

I mean, it's phenomenal.

在我看来，这本书配得上现在的贝卡·托宾——你就是这么有才华。

So in my eyes, the book deserves it's like you're being the Bekkah Tobin right now of books, which is you're so talented.

书真的太好了，可你偏偏讨厌自吹自擂。

It's so good, but you really hate the self promotion about it.

你不想穿着亮眼的衣服走上红毯。

You don't wanna go and wear a bright color on a red carpet.

你就想穿黑色。

You wanna wear black.

你只想套上那件方方正正的黑西装，让作品自己说话。

You just wanna wear your black boxy suit and you wanna just like, you want just the work to speak for itself.

对。

Mhmm.

你们俩根本就是一类人。

You guys are the same person.

对。

Mhmm.

问题是，我们现在生活在2026年，整个世界都太吵了。

The problem is is that we live in 2026 where the whole world is very loud.

在我看来，这本书配得上所有榜单、奖项和认可。

And in my eyes, this book deserves all the lists, the awards, the recognition.

它值得触达每一个人。

It deserves to touch everyone.

所以对我来说，我就想，你为啥不想知道呢？

And so for me, I'm like, well, why wouldn't you want to know?

因为关键是，你可能已经处在这样的位置了——就凭你这个人，书早就预购爆了，人气也够了。

Because here's the thing, you might already be in a position where you're based on, you know, who you are and that this had a long pre order and the your popularity.

你可能早就稳了，这时候完全可以松口气，心里想：行吧，挺好的。

Like, you might already be sitting pretty and then you could take the pressure off yourself and just be like, oh, cool.

我活儿已经干完了。

I did the work.

都已经完成了。

Like, it's done already.

早就是命中注定的事了。

Like, you know, written in the stars.

这个预售量已经很不错了，你可以放松点了。

This is pretty good number for pre orders like sit back.

如果你还没达到目标，可以跟团队说：我觉得这本书还没做到它该有的样子。

Now, if you're not close, you could go to your team and say, hey, I don't feel like this book is where it needs to be at.

我们还能做点什么，让它得到应得的认可？

What else can we do so that it gets the recognition it deserves?

因为它确实值得，没错。

Because it does deserve to be yeah.

我懂。

I know.

不过还是谢谢你。

But then Thank you.

我不是，我……

I don't I

得了吧，你们这帮对奖项之类的东西完全不上心的人啊

don't You know, you bitches that don't care about, like, awards and, like, things like that.

我真的觉得你们太奇怪了

You're just so strange to me.

害，我倒是觉得这本书肯定能找到真正懂它、需要它的读者

Well, I also feel like it's a book that will find the hands that it needs to be in.

你说对不对？

Right?

而且我觉得书籍最动人的地方就在于，它完全能靠口碑传播开，

And I think that's the beautiful part about books is there it can be such word-of-mouth.

甚至能把你拉回到很久以前的那段时光里——就是那种

It can take you back to like another time where

对的

Yeah.

现在大家都会问，你最近在读什么书？

Even it's like, what are you reading lately?

天哪，你一定要读读这本。

Oh my God, read this.

或者朋友正处在困难的时候，

Or friend is in a difficult moment.

我就说，你知道吗？

I'm like, you know what?

我刚读了这本书，我觉得特别适合你。

I read this book and I think this would help you.

所以我觉得，这根本不是第一周的事儿，

So I think also it's not about the first week.

而是它能带来多长远的影响。

It's about just like what it does beyond.

而我从你这样的人、还有我最亲近的人那里得到的反馈，真的完全超出了我的期待——毕竟，他们的意见对我来说最重要。

And truly the reaction that I have gotten from people like you and the people that I'm closest to that obviously always their opinion matters most or should, has been everything I've ever wanted it to be.

所以我感觉自己已经赢了。

So I feel like I won already.

我最自豪的，真的，就是这件事，比什么都强。

I feel like I I'm deaf it's the thing I'm most proud of of anything I've ever done, truly.

当然，除了我亲手带大的那些孩子。

I mean, aside from like my humans that I help create.

除此之外，这是我职业生涯里唯一一次，能心安理得地举手认输——我真的做到了。

But like other than that, I feel I feel like it it's the only time in my life work wise where I'm like, I I can put my hands up and feel like I I did it.

我做到了。

I did it.

我完全按自己的想法，把想做的事给干成了。

I did exactly what I wanted to do, how I wanted to do it.

编辑最后都不得不从我手里抢走稿子，说：‘别改了，你再改下去就没完没了了。’ 我确实老觉得还能再润色，但这次我真的特别满足，虽然我还会继续干下去。

My editor literally had to rip it from my hands at a certain point though where she's like, you can't touch it anymore because I'm sure you know, like, you you constantly feel like you can tinker through it, but I do feel so satisfied that but I will do the work.

我向你保证，你一定会的。

I you're you're gonna I promise you.

我要发点能量上去。

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna post some energy.

来吧。

Come on.

我在努力了。

I'm trying

我就穿一次红色。

to I'm gonna wear red one time.

好吧。

Okay.

这次我不全穿黑的了。

I'm not gonna be in all black.

虽然我……

Although I

我有一条特别棒的黑裙子，是给《早安美国》准备的。

have a really good black dress for GMA.

太完美了。

That's perfect.

GMA就是这么严肃的。

GMA is serious like that.

没错。

That's right.

特别严肃。

Serious.

好的。

Okay.

贝卡，你来吧。

Becca, take it away.

好的。

Okay.

其实我之前录过一段，讲的是我那周过得挺糟的，刚坐飞机时我看了十页左右，就是你提到的那个部分。

Well, I did I did open up good week bad week that we just recorded before you got here where I got like I think it was 10 pages in and it's the part I was sitting on a plane it's the part where you're talking about.

你小时候就经历过这些，是个天赋异禀的小女孩，一上来就演主角，可这根本不是你想要的，因为你总担心自己站那么高，大家会讨厌你——其实每个女孩都只想被喜欢。

You had this experience as a young child, a young girl who was very naturally gifted and you were given these lead roles in these big shows and it wasn't something that you necessarily wanted because you were in a position of being really worried that being in that position, you were going to be disliked or and like all any girl ever wants to be is that in that position.

特别讽刺的是，当你站在那个位置上，回头看，我们这些普通人，却拼了命想挤进去。

It's almost like so crazy to see the perspective of the girl who's been given the thing when all of us are the girls that are just clawing our ways to try to get the thing.

你当时的感受就是：我只希望所有人都喜欢我。

And your perspective was like, I just wanted to be liked by everybody.

我真不想给任何人更多讨厌我的理由。

I didn't wanna give anybody any more reason to dislike me.

这也为整本书定下了基调，让我们明白，这种感受其实人人都有。

And it just sets us up in the for the entire book to really understand that this feeling is so universal.

不管你上过多少次《人物》杂志封面，哪怕十七次也没用。

It does not matter if you are on the cover of People Magazine 17 times.

不管你拿过多少次演员工会奖，五十次也一样。

It does not matter that you were at the SAG Awards 50 times.

归根结底，我们所有人都一样——就只想被喜欢，被接纳。

It's literally so universal that we just wanna be liked and we wanna be accepted.

读你的故事，外人看你风光无限，可你一路走来，面对的不只是多发性硬化症，还有人际关系，还有你和自己的关系。

And reading the story of you who has been on top of the world according to all of us and what we've seen, and to see the battle that you were going through the entire time, not with just MS, with personal relationships, with the relationship you had with yourself.

这让我第一次对所有女性产生了真正的同情。

And it gave me a compassion for every single woman that I have never had in my entire life.

我敢说，我从小就是那种拼命三娘，一辈子都在往上爬，看到那些站在山顶的人，总觉得她们轻松得不得了，根本不会同情她们。

I swear to God, I have always been the girl that's been so scrappy and I've just been trying so hard my whole life to get to the top of the mountain that any girl on the top of it has appeared to have it so easy that I didn't have any compassion for that person.

我不仅嘴上说她们的坏话，还巴不得她们出糗。

And I had no problem talking shit about that girl and I had no problem being happy when she failed.

我现在说的都是大实话。

And this is me being so honest.

但真没想到会是这样。

But it's crazy to see.

我觉得，你根本不用当演员，也能懂这个道理。

I think that it, you don't have to be an actress to understand this concept.

就像你邻居那个女人，开好车、有美满家庭、老公有钱、事业有成。

Whether it's like the woman in your neighborhood who's driving the nice car, has this beautiful family, whose husband's rich, who has this great career.

突然间，你开始看身边的每个人，心里想：我不知道他们到底经历了什么，但我知道，绝对不是我表面看到的那样。

Suddenly you start looking at every single person around you and thinking, I don't know what's going on, but I can assure you it's not what I'm seeing.

这也让我卸下了不少压力，不再总拿自己跟别人比，也不再觉得非得爬到那个顶峰才行。

And it also takes away a lot of the pressure and comparison or the stress that I have to try to get to that said point or the top of that mountain.

你觉得，是不是因为你太早当上主角，成了所有女孩都羡慕的对象，才让你真正变成了一个有血有肉的人？因为你一直就是这样。

Do you think that that beginning part of being the lead so early and having the thing that all the girls wanted was the moment that you became this human because you've been like this.

你从来就不屑于说人坏话。

You've always been the girl that refuses to talk shit.

你从不故意贬低谁。

You refuse to tear anybody down.

别人跌倒了，你也不会幸灾乐祸。

You refuse to celebrate when somebody falls.

这种视角对你来说特别难得，而且这么多年从来没变过。

And it's a really crazy perspective that has never really wavered for you.

是那个时刻让你变成这样的吗？

Was it that moment?

首先，我觉得你把自己说得太简单了，不像你描述的那样单一。

Well, first of all, I think it's very I don't think that you are how you paint yourself to be at, one dimensional like that.

我的意思是，我也很欣赏你这一点。

I mean, but I also appreciate

让我跟你说说我最糟糕的时候吧。

Tell you about me at my worst.

你懂的。

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

但我特别佩服你能这么坦诚地面对这些。

But I respect you being very honest and open about that.

我觉得我打娘胎里出来就是这样。

I think I came out of the womb like this.

我生下来就带着某种家族创伤，不管你怎么叫它，骨子里就是害怕。

I think I came in with some ancestral trauma, whatever you wanna call it, in my DNA of just being afraid.

我从小就很内疚。

I came in, I had a lot of guilt as a young girl.

我妈妈是古巴的政治难民，成长经历特别艰难，她和我外婆都经历过很多创伤。

My mom is a political refugee from Cuba, had a very difficult upbringing, a lot of trauma in her and my grandmother's life.

我爸爸小时候穷得叮当响，虽然我祖父母人挺好的，但真算不上称职的父母。

And I was constantly my dad grew up very poor and not like I loved my great they were great grandparents, but weren't necessarily great parents.

我老被提醒：你要知道自己的幸运，我们的生活跟他们完全不一样。

And, you know, I was constantly reminded of that, of my privilege and of how lucky we were and that our life wasn't like their life.

我明白他们这么跟我说、跟我兄弟姐妹说的用意，但我和他们真的不一样。

And while I understand the intention that was being put on me and presented to my brothers and I, I and they are very different than me.

我把自己给搞垮了，总觉得：天啊，我不配拥有这些。

I internalized it like, oh my God, I don't deserve this.

好像只有吃过苦的人，才配得到好东西。

Like, you only deserve things when you go through hard things.

所以当好事突然落到我头上——我想唱歌跳舞演戏，一转眼就成了《安妮》里的主角，成了《绿野仙踪》里的多萝西……

So when things then came easy to me where I decided I wanted to sing and dance and act and next thing you know, I'm Annie and I'm Dorothy and I'm this.

那时候真的压得我喘不过气，我妈还说：‘你得小心点，别人会嫉妒你。’

Like it was so overwhelming because it then my mom was like, well, listen, people are gonna be jealous.

所以你得把一个辟邪的护身符藏在内裤里，挡开邪眼，不然上帝会惩罚你。

So you have to wear this little evil eye talisman in your underwear to protect you from the evil eyes and God will punish you.

整个世界在我眼里都变得特别可怕。

So the whole world felt so scary to me.

但只要一上台，一旦进入状态，我就感觉自己能变成另一个人，完全不用做自己。

But when I was on stage, it once I was in the moment, it was like where I could be somebody else and like not.

我想，我当年那么迷恋当演员，就是因为那是我逃离自己造的地狱的唯一出口——当然，剧院里也真有那么几个小丫头看我不顺眼吧？

I I think that's what attached me to being a young performer was like, it was my escape from my own little hell that truly I created for myself because, I mean, was there a couple little bitches in the theater that probably didn't like me?

是啊。

Yeah.

但那些事儿从来都没让我觉得受伤。

But like it was never, it was never traumatic.

根本算不上什么大事。

It was never anything that bad.

我觉得大家还挺喜欢我的。

I think I was liked.

我觉得我朋友挺多的，但我就是不信。

I think I did have a lot of friends, but I never, I never believed it.

我总觉得自己一走开，别人就在背后说我坏话。

I, and I always believed when I left a room, everyone was gonna talk shit about me.

我想可能就是因为这样，我从来不会对别人那样，因为我太清楚那种感觉了——要是你正经历这些，有多心碎。这回答你问题了吗？

And I think that's probably why I'm a little bit like I would never do that to anybody else because I know so much what it's like to feel like if that was happening to you and how heartbreaking that is if that answers your question.

明白了。

It does.

也许我小时候根本没被欺负过。

Maybe I just wasn't bullied enough as a child.

但我是说，

But I mean, the

其实我也没被欺负过。

thing was I wasn't either.

我老是自己欺负自己。

I would bullied myself.

对吧？

Right.

你知道的吧？

You know?

结果呢，说来也巧，我16岁那年，莫名其妙就被扔进了一个大制作节目，身边全是大人物。

And then unfortunately, fortunately or unfortunately, like I at 16 years old, I'm like catapulted onto this like huge show with all these huge people.

我简直是个小白。

I'm so green.

第一天进组，我头发吹得蓬蓬的，妆也化了，压根没觉得自己配得上这么正式地打扮去拍戏。

I don't even know how it's I showed up to with my hair blown out and makeup my first day of onset, like not even thinking that I was special enough to get ready for filming.

把我这么脆弱的人丢进那种环境，简直就是灾难配方——但我相信，很多人其实都经历过类似的事。

And so, like, put me then in that arena, like with as vulnerable as I was, it was just it was a bad recipe that I'm but I'm also one that I'm sure a lot of people have been through.

像我这种处境的人，或者我们在影视剧里常看到的那些人，其实挺多的。

Like a lot of people like in my position or that we that we watch in movies or television shows.

就像你说的，你根本看不到那些藏在漂亮发型和妆容下面的脆弱和不安全感。

Like you're saying, you don't know the vulnerabilities and the insecurities that are being, you know, layered under the beautiful hair and makeup all the time.

而且那段时间真的特别残酷。

And it was also a really savage time.

现在我们有网络喷子，但那时候更狠，人家就当面骂你长得丑、不够格。

I mean, people are we have the trolls now, but it was also a really savage time where people were relentless and rude to your face about how you looked and how you were.

所以那段日子真是跌跌撞撞、一团糟，肯定没跑。

And so it was it was a it was a messy, bumpy, rough ride for sure.

我读你这本书的时候，简直不敢相信，拍《黑道家族》那会儿，你不仅刚确诊多发性硬化症，还老觉得自己根本不配待在那儿。

Couldn't believe while reading the book how much during The Sopranos you were like very much struggling not just post MS diagnosis just Always feeling like you didn't deserve to be there.

这也太离谱了。

That's so crazy.

而且我想说，咱们谁没碰过整形这事儿啊，全都有过。

Also, I want to say we're like not one of us is a stranger to plastic surgery in any way and all

那种事儿。

that stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

让我震惊的是，书里一开头就提到，刚拍《黑道家族》第一季或者试播集时，你刚被录用就离开了，后来竟然得了饮食失调，还做了鼻整形之类的。

The thing that shocked me is that right at the beginning of the book, Jamie is talking about essentially it was your first season or the pilot and then you went away, you got hired and then you went away and like developed an eating disorder, got a nose job or like whatever.

再回来拍剧的时候，制片方直接懵了：‘Jamie怎么把脸搞成这样了？’

Then came back to the series and they were like, what the did Jamie do to her face?

你觉得自己在追求完美，可他们其实想说：‘不，我们想要的是以前那个女孩。’

And you think you're pursuing this perfection and they were actually, no, we want like that girl back.

你能不能讲讲这段经历？

Talk us through that.

这真让我大开眼界，因为我觉得我们对你的人生挺了解的，但你之前有公开承认过这些吗？

That was such a revelation because I feel like we know a lot of your story and the fact that you were like, had you admitted that before?

没有。

No.

我对此感到特别羞耻和难堪。

I had such shame and embarrassment around that.

我的意思是，那事儿其实挺明显的，当时大家也都猜来猜去，但我真的特别羞愧，不想提那段经历。

I mean like, it was obvious and like people would speculate and they did at the time but I was like so embarrassed about what happened.

我才16岁。

Was 16.

我当时才16岁。

I was 16 years old.

你妈当时咋想的？

What was your mom thinking?

事情是这样的。

Well, here's what happened.

拍试播集的时候，我确实比以往任何时候都胖。

So, you know, we shot the pilot and I was definitely heavier than I had ever been.

我第一次吃避孕药，就为了调经啥的，反正就是那些事儿。

I was on birth control for the first time for regular periods, whatever, blah blah blah.

我胖了大概十到十五磅。

I had gained, like, 10 or 15 pounds.

那时候节目组想要一个有点肉感的意大利小姑娘，我当时的状态完全符合要求。

I was perfect for the Italian little chub they wanted on the show at the time.

我还带着一口浓重的长岛口音。

I had my thick Long Island accent.

所以你看，我当时就是大家印象里那种胖乎乎的意大利小女孩的样子。

I you know, it was what looked like a, you know, a chubby Italian girl.

后来我去看试播集的放映会的时候，整个人都懵了——我居然和我平时追的那些美剧里的演员都长得不一样，像《飞跃比佛利》《恋爱时代》里的那些演员都不是我这样的。

And then when I watched the pilot, a screening of it, I was so taken back by how I didn't look like anyone on any of the shows that I like to watch on television, like Beverly Hills nine zero two and o, Dawson's Creek.

我当时满脑子都是，我的天呐

I'm like, oh my god.

我怎么这么胖啊

I'm so fat.

我怎么这么难看

I'm so ugly.

感觉我根本就不配待在那儿

Like, I don't belong.

我当时才十六岁，真的。

This is like and I'm again, I'm a 16 year old girl.

看到自己出现在大屏幕上，这种反应再正常不过了。

Like, what you know, it's a very normal reaction seeing myself on a big screen.

之前我只在社区剧团演过戏。

I had just done community theater before that.

那时候一切都特别小，特别简单。

So everything was so small and contained and simple.

对。

Mhmm.

就在这时候，我第一个男朋友——我连初夜都给了他，还觉得非他不嫁——突然跟我分手了。

In so at the same time, my first boyfriend who I lost my virginity to, who I was convinced I was gonna marry, like, broke up with me.

那时候大家突然都开始聊卡路里，盯着食品包装背面看，说什么低脂、零脂，都想穿比基尼好看。

And it was a time when everyone started talking about calories and looking at the back of a package and talking about fat free this and fat free that and wanting to look hot in a bikini.

我也跟着凑热闹，结果发现自己减肥特别在行。

I followed suit and I found that I was really good at losing weight.

我就跟对待其他事一样，拼命往死里搞。

And I hit it the way I hit everything else.

每天凌晨四点就爬起来，练两个小时，家里人都还没醒，我一直在算卡路里。

I would wake up at 04:00 in the morning and exercise for two hours before anybody would know in my house and I would constantly be counting calories.

一眨眼功夫，我就发现：哇，Jamie 真好看。

And next thing you know, I'm like, wow, Jamie looks good.

哇，Sigler 真性感。

Wow, Sigler looks hot.

我收到一堆夸奖，都说我瘦得漂亮，直到——

And I'm like getting all of this, you know, positive feedback until

我有点过头了。

I took it too far.

我记得那时候体重掉到了八十二磅左右。

And I was, I think I went down to like eighty two pounds.

天哪。

Oh my God.

那时候问题已经很明显了，我父母开始想办法帮我。

And at that point it was clearly a problem, and my parents were seeking to get me help.

我正在康复期间，突然听说《黑道家族》要正式开拍了。

And while I was trying to recover and during this time then find out Sopranos is gonna be a full show.

他们决定让我拍一季，但我那时候还住得离片场好远。

We're gonna get picked up, do a season, but I still live a couple of months away.

我拼命求爸妈让我继续运动，最后只能每天散步。

I would I would beg my parents to still let me do some physical activity so I would walk.

我就在小区里转悠，一走远点就开跑，就想着多消耗点卡路里，管它呢。

So I wanted to walk around my neighborhood and whenever I would get far enough away, I would run because I just wanted to burn the calories, whatever.

我那时候根本还没从饮食失调里走出来。

I was still deeply in my eating disorder.

有一次跑步，我绊了一跤，整个人摔在地上，脸全青了。

And in one of my runs, I tripped and I fell and I bruised my whole face.

脸上全都是划痕。

I cut my whole face.

我鼻子上划了个口子，我妈一看就急了：天哪，她马上就要上镜了。

I got this cut in my nose and in a panic, my mom was like, she's about to be on camera.

我们都不知道这会不会留疤，得赶紧处理。

Like, we need to we don't know if this damages.

别去普通医院了。

Let's not go to a regular doctor.

咱们直接找整形医生看看吧。

Let's go to a plastic surgeon to check this out.

哦。

Oh.

然后——

And

那整形医生说：嗯，可能会留点小疤，不过我可以把鼻尖稍微修掉一点，这样谁也看不出来。

this plastic surgeon says, you know, well, she might have a little scar there, but what I can do is, you know, her nose protrudes downwards a lot.

她鼻子本来就往下垂，我只要动一点点，完全看不出来。

So I can just take a little bit off the tip and no one would know.

我本来还特别讨厌自己在屏幕里的样子，但后来我想，嘿，这也不错。

And, and I'm coming off hating how I looked on screen, but I'm like, great.

真的太好了。

This is great.

我得再胖回来一点。

I'll put some weight back on.

鼻子能好看那么一丁点，那就完美了。

I'll have my nose will look a little bit better and it will be perfect.

我鼻子根本没好看那么一丁点。

My nose did not look a little bit better.

是完全变了个样。

It looked completely different.

所以，我——你有没有觉得

And so, I But have did you

还行吗？

like it?

你喜欢那个鼻子吗？

Did you like the nose?

不喜欢。

No.

不，我哪个都不喜欢。

No, I didn't like any.

我也不喜欢自己的身材。

I didn't like my body.

我也不喜欢我的鼻子。

I didn't like my nose.

我的意思是，现在就这样了。

I didn't like I mean, it's what I've got now.

所以我只能接受了。

So I gotta like

你没再做一次吗？

You never got it redone?

没整过。

No.

从那之后我就再也没动过它。

I never touched it since.

原来是这样。

Okay.

这医生也太缺德了。

What an unethical doctor.

不是，你看啊，他这人啊——

I mean, he's he's, you

你想想，他当年看着的，是个从长岛来的16岁犹太小姑娘啊。

know, he's looking at a 16 year old Jewish girl from Long Island.

他肯定见过太多同款了，我当时就觉得，害，可不是嘛。

I'm sure I was like, I do.

那天他都见了十几个我这样的了。

I've seen 10 of them that day already.

对啊。

Right.

所以呢，

So

是啊，我那天算是正式回剧组上班了。

yeah, I had to walk in to my, technically my first day of work back to the show.

我觉得我胖了十磅。

I think I had gained 10 pounds.

那时候吧，确实挺多的，但我还是只有九十三、九十四磅。

So at that point, right, that's a lot, but I'm still ninety three, ninety four pounds.

比起拍试播集时的一百三十磅，我还是瘦太多了。

I'm still a lot smaller than the one hundred and thirty I was when I shot the pilot.

天哪。

Woah.

鼻子也不一样了。

A different nose.

我妈妈陪着我，因为当时我还是未成年人，真是谢天谢地，但我差点被开除。

My mom was with me because I was a minor, thank God, but I almost got fired.

我差点被换掉。

I almost got replaced.

我一点都不怪他们。

I don't blame them.

我谁都不怨，只怪我自己。

I wasn't mad at anyone but myself.

不幸的是，从那以后，我就一直觉得自己是个麻烦，好像没人真正接受我。

And I think unfortunately that set the tone for me then for the rest of the series of just like being a problem, being nobody really like me.

我不该在这儿。

I shouldn't be here.

我老是出错，可这不就是我后来的遭遇吗？

I always make mistakes because what else happened to me?

我还得了莱姆病。

I got Lyme's disease.

我结婚了。

I got married.

我离婚了。

I got divorced.

当然，我当时想瞒着大家我的多发性硬化症，毕竟我总不能直接说：我得了退行性疾病吧。

And of course I was gonna hide the MS because I'm gonna tell them now I have a degenerative disease.

那段日子真的特别混乱，对我来说简直是巨大的创伤。

Like it was just unfortunately so clouded and such a tremendously traumatic time for me.

更糟的是，还一堆人评论我的体重、我的脸、我的选择。

And then on top of it, now I'm dealing with people commenting on my weight, on my face, on my choices.

你可能会想，演了十年《黑道家族》，应该挺开心的吧？可真有那么多快乐的时刻吗？

So, I mean, you'd think being on Sopranos for ten years would have been the most fun and look, were more there moments of fun?

当然有。

Absolutely.

但那段时间也真的特别难熬。

But it was also a really difficult time.

我觉得我跟罗布这么亲近，就是因为那段时间我死死抓住了他，他是我唯一的避风港，而且他从不骗我，实话实说。

And I think it's why I'm so close with Rob for me is because I latched onto him so hard during that time because he was my safe place and he was, he gave it to me straight.

他一直这样，但那时候他真正接纳了我。

He always did, but it was, he accepted me.

他爱我。

He loved me.

在那倒霉的十年里，他的存在一直让我感到特别安心。

And I felt very comforted by his presence all the time during that unfortunate ten years.

但你老提到你叫他‘吉姆’，我们都知道他是已故的传奇演员詹姆斯·甘多菲尼。

But you talk a lot about how you call him Jim, we know him as James Gandolfini, the late great.

他一直这样看着你，你还讲了那么多关于他的动人故事，比如他看着你，说你干得太棒了。

He the entire time saw you in this way And you tell the most beautiful stories of him, like, looking at you and telling you that you did such a good job.

他就跟你说：‘你很棒。’

He said, you're good.

他真的跟你说过：‘你很棒。’

Like, he told you you're good.

作为一个演员，能被一位经验丰富、才华横溢的前辈直视着你，认真地说一句‘你很棒’，这抵得上八百万句夸奖。

And, like, as an actor to be told by a brilliant actor that's older, that's been around to look you in the eye and say, you're good, is like 8,000,000 compliments in one.

而且他在片场也一直特别支持你。

And he also like advocated for you so much on that set.

没错。

He did.

我觉得他之所以这样，是因为……

I think he's he it's one of

他最神奇的地方在于，他生前曾坦率地谈过，演托尼·索普拉诺有多难，简直快把他逼疯了，毁掉了他生活的方方面面。

the magical parts about him was I mean, it was such a I mean, he's spoken he spoke openly before his death of how difficult it was to play Tony Soprano and, like, how it, like, literally drove him crazy and ruined his life in very many ways.

但那时候我把自己关得死死的。

But he I was obviously so closed off.

他虽然一直很尊重我，但心里清楚，我时时刻刻都在藏着什么。

And he just couldn't ever like, was respectful, but he knew that I was hiding something all the time.

而我所需要的，不过是偶尔有只大手捧住我的脸，轻轻说一句：‘干得漂亮，姑娘。’

So and and all I ever needed was, like, every once in a while, like, giant hand, like, cupping my face and being like, good job, girl.

要么就会把手搭在我肩上，说他都知道。我记得年末的时候他还悄悄跟我说过这话。

Or like a hand on the shoulder being like, I know like he I remember him whispering him at year end.

“我知道你现在在熬一些难事儿，总有一天你会愿意告诉我的。”

Like, I know you're going through something and you're gonna tell me one day.

我那时候就只能应道，对啊。

And I'm like, yeah.

真的就是那样。

Yeah.

然后他真的那么做了。

And I did.

我在书里写过这么一件事，大概是第五季的时候，托尼陷入昏迷，有一段戏是梅多对着爸爸喊，求他不要离开我们之类的。

I had a moment I write about in the book where I had it's when I think it's season five when Tony's in a coma and Meadow has this moment where she's calling him back and she's, please daddy, don't leave us, whatever.

结果喊卡之后，我情绪一下子就崩了，像决堤了一样。

And for whatever reason, after they yell cut, it was like a dam was broken.

那是因为那时候我正处在离婚的阶段。

And I just, because at that point I was going through my divorce.

没人知道多发性硬化症已经开始严重影响我的生活。

Nobody knew the MS was starting to really present itself in my life.

我就在地板上哭得稀里哗啦，大家都走了，以为我只是演员在入戏。

And I just bawled on the floor and everyone kind of left me there because they just were like, it's, you know, an actor having a moment,

大概是吧。

I guess.

演技派嘛。

Method.

后来大家去吃午饭，我一个人走在医院的走廊上，他突然跟上来，把我拉进一间屋子，我就告诉他我得了多发性硬化症。

And then when I stayed back when it was like everyone broke for lunch and I was walking down like a lonely hospital hallway and there he was right behind me, pulled me into a room and that's when I told him I had MS.

天啊。

God.

是啊。

Yeah.

他就是这样，简直像有魔法一样。

So he's always like he was just magic.

他就知道什么时候该说、该怎么说。

Like he just knew he just knew the right times and the right ways.

他特别尊重人，从不强求。

He was so respectful of, and never forceful.

后来我才听说，我跟他说了之后，他一直在默默捐钱给多发性硬化症的研究，而且从不希望任何人知道。

But like, you know, I'd found out later he was once I had told him he was donating all the time money to MS research and like would never need anybody to know that.

你懂我的意思吧？

You know what I mean?

他真的是最好的人，我觉得自己是这世上最幸运的人之一，能有缘和他相处这么久。

He's just he was the best, and I consider myself one of the luckiest people in the world that have got to spend the time with him.

别说和他一起演戏了，光是能和他待在一起、陪在他身边，就已经是莫大的福气。

I mean, let alone act with him, but spend the time with that man and just be around him.

最让人痛心的就是，我们再也见不到他了。

It's the greatest tragedy that we don't have him here anymore.

是啊。

It is.

好吧。

Okay.

我真想来个大转弯。

I wanna make up such a hard turn.

不好意思。

That's sorry.

这完全是凯尔蒂的风格，因为我要是搞错了，就辜负了那些追星女孩和她们的幻想。

This is in true Kelty style because I I I would be a miss and I would be not serving the pop culture girlies and the fantasies.

你知道吗？大家听这个播客，是因为杰克和我二十年前追过她们的偶像。

You know, Jack people like this podcast because Jack and I dated their celebrity crush, you know, twenty years ago.

咱们说实话吧。

Let's let's be honest.

你朋友贝卡·托宾是不错，但说到底，重点还是在罗斯维斯特身上。

Your friend Becca Tobin is fine, but, like, it's really about the Rosevest.

对。

Yeah.

她是个

She's a

温暖又贴心的清单。

warm good list.

她确实有一份很棒的清单。

The the lore she does have a good list.

对啊。

Mhmm.

那个 lore。

The lore.

我想聊聊 Jamie Lynn Sigler 那个时代，那时候你简直是扑向最火的那一个。

I wanna I wanna talk about the era of Jamie Lynn Sigler where you are literally pouncing the hottest.

我有吗？

Was I?

男人。

Men.

不是扑上去，

Not pouncing.

是蹦跶。

Bouncing.

你啊，我

You're I

我当时就想，这更糟吗？

was like, is it worse?

当那种女人。

Like to be that bitch

就是你那种？

that you're like?

我从来不是那种女人。

Was never that bitch.

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

是啊。

Were.

我还以为你是呢。

I thought you were.

好吧，行吧。

Well, okay.

只有你才觉得我是……

Only you had I'm

女巫。

a witch.

我告诉你我是什么吧。

I'll tell you what I am.

我不是那种人。

I'm not a bitch.

我是个女巫。

I'm a witch.

再多讲讲吧。

Tell us more.

我真没说过这人名字，我根本没提过。

I I don't I I I just I've never given this guy's name.

我不会告诉你的，但你可以自己猜猜看。

I'm not gonna give it but you can try to figure it out.

那是2001年的事。

It was the year 2001.

那时候TRL可火了，啥都靠它。

It was when TRL was like, you know, everything.

我住的地方就在百老汇56号，离TRL就几步路。

I lived on 56 In Broadway, like seconds away from TRL.

我记得刚搬进那小公寓，坐在客厅里发呆，连电话都没有，真不知道在干嘛。

And I remember like being in my new little apartment, like, I don't know what I was doing in my living room because I didn't have a phone.

反正就是那么回事吧。

So like, you know, whatever.

当时TRL正在播，我看到一个男孩乐队在纽约，他们的表现一点都不老套。

And TRL was on and I see a boy band and they're in New York and they're It down was not like cliche.

真的一点都不老套。

It was not like cliche.

我瞄了其中一个人一眼，心想：这 guy 太帅了。

And I looked at one guy and I'm like, he's so cute.

我真想认识他。

I would like love to meet him.

那天晚上，我和朋友去了西村一家随机挑的酒吧。

That night, I go down to a random bar in the West Village with a friend.

你们猜我那晚第一个撞见的是谁？

And who's the first person I bump into that night?

就是他。

Him.

天哪。

Oh my god.