LG速递：伊丽莎白·斯马特谈偏离、疗愈与释放羞耻

姐妹们，我想说，非常感谢大家对我新书《不再当老好人的人的自助指南》的支持。

Lady gang, I wanted to say I am so thankful for all your support of my new book, The Self Help for People Who Are Done Being the Bigger Person.

这本书目前在fthembook.com上热销中。

It is on sale right now at fthembook.com.

我想解释一下出版界的一个事情：预售真的非常重要。

I wanted to explain something about the publishing world that preorders really matter.

我只有三周的时间来为这本书争取一些预售，这决定了出版商是否能去Target、沃尔玛、巴诺书店以及所有独立书店推广。

I literally have three weeks to get some pre orders on this book, and that's how the publisher goes out to Target and Walmart and Barnes and Noble and all your indie booksellers.

他们基本上会说：嘿，这本书有点热度了。

And they basically say, hey, there's a little heat on this book.

你家格罗夫的巴诺书店愿意进10本吗？

Would you buy 10 for your Barnes and Noble at The Grove?

你家独立书店愿意进10本吗？

Would you buy 10 for your Indy?

这很疯狂，因为这本书十一月才正式出版，但未来几周的订单真的、真的至关重要。

It's crazy because the book is published in November, but the orders over the next few weeks really, really matter.

如果你打算支持我并购买这本书，如果你能尽早下单，我会非常感激。

If you're planning on supporting me and you're planning on getting the book, if you could do it now sooner than later, I would appreciate it so much.

fthembook.com。

Fthembook.com.

我提供了许多预售奖励，其中之一是免费加入K型人群社群，我将全年亲自担任你的教练，助力新书发布。

And I offered all these pre order bonuses, and one of them is to get into the K Type Collective where I'm literally gonna be your personal coach all year long leading up into the book launch for free.

每周三，你都会收到我布置的作业。

Every Wednesday, you're gonna get homework for me.

可能是社交媒体方面的。

It could be social media.

也可能是财务方面的。

It could be money.

也可能是情感方面的。

It could be emotional.

到了周日，我会审阅你的作业，完成所有工作，告诉你我的看法，并提供个性化的反馈。

And then on Sunday, I'm gonna review it and do all of the work and tell you what I think and give you my personalized feedback.

我们每个月还会在Zoom上举行一次责任跟进会议，大家可以聊聊。

And we're gonna have once monthly accountability meetings as well on Zoom so we can all chat.

我对这个新时代感到非常兴奋。

I'm really excited about this new era.

Lady Gang不会消失，但还是感谢你们的支持。

Lady Gang isn't going anywhere, but thank you for your support.

Fmbook.com。

Fmbook.com.

该做个小环节了。

It's time for a quickie.

Podcast one 呈现 Lady Gang —— 好莱坞女孩帮派，带来 Lady Gang 小环节。

Podcast one presents the lady gang, the Hollywood girl posse with lady gang quickie.

以下是 Kelty Knight、Becca Tobin 和 Jack Vanick。

Here's Kelty Knight, Becca Tobin, and Jack Vanick.

咱们快点开始吧。

Let's make this quick.

你好。

Hello.

你好。

Hello.

你好。

Hello.

欢迎收听Lady Gang Quickie。

Welcome to Lady Gang Quickie.

我是Becca，和Jack以及Kelty在一起。

I am Becca here with Jack and Kelty.

今天，我们有一位非常特别的嘉宾，一位期待已久的嘉宾。

And today, we have a very special guest, a long awaited guest.

我们的真罪爱好者Jack Vanik已经痴迷多年了。

Our true crime junkie Jack Vanik has been obsessed for many years.

我也一直对这个故事着迷，最近刚看了这部纪录片。

I have also been obsessed with this story and recently watched the documentary.

凯尔蒂，这是谁？

Kelty, who is this?

她是一位演员兼活动家，也是关于疗愈、韧性以及在创伤后重拾人生方面最具说服力的声音之一。

She is an actor activist and one of the most compelling voices on healing resilience and reclaiming your life after trauma.

她刚出版了一本新书《岔路》，在书中她坦诚分享了生活中意想不到的曲折，以及我们如何将这些痛苦的中断转化为指引我们走向目标、成长和更深意义的契机。

She's got a new book, Detours, where she opens up about the unexpected twists life throws our ways and how we can take those painful interruptions and use them to lead us towards purpose, growth and deeper meaning.

欢迎来到《Lady Gang》，这位作者出版了众多书籍，但最新的一本叫做《岔路》。

Please welcome to The Lady Gang, the author of many, many books, but the latest one is called Detours.

我就在这里拿着这本书。

I have it right here.

她封面看起来真美。

She looks hot on the cover.

伊丽莎白·斯马特。

Elizabeth Smart.

欢迎。

Welcome.

谢谢。

Thank you.

谢谢你们邀请我。

Thank you for having me.

谢谢你的到来。

Thank you for being here.

好的。

Okay.

首先，是什么让你想要继续写作和分享？

So first of all, what made you want to keep writing and keep sharing?

我得笑一下，因为每写完一本书，我都会在心里觉得，就这样了。

I have to laugh a little bit because after every book that I've written, I've always kind of mentally been like, that's it.

我无法想象再写另一本书了。

I can't imagine writing another book.

但不知怎么的，另一本书又出来了。

And then somehow another book comes out.

而这本最新的书，总有太多人不断问我：你是怎么疗愈的？

And this last book, I have so many people asking me all the time, how did you heal?

你的疗愈过程是什么样的？

What did your healing process look like?

你做了些什么？

What did you do?

到底有什么秘密方法可以走出创伤、从创伤中康复？

Like, what is the secret formula to getting past trauma, healing from trauma?

但说实话，我并没有什么秘密方法。

And the truth is, is I don't have a secret formula.

我的意思是，要是有的话就好了。

I mean, I wish I did.

那该多好啊？

Wouldn't that be great?

就像吃一颗药丸，所有烦恼就能以一种健康的方式消散，而不是靠上瘾的方式。

Just like pop a pill and have all your troubles melt away in a good way, not a high way.

是的。

Yes.

因为我试过，但事实上那并不奏效。

Because I tried that and actually it doesn't work.

所以，是的。

So, Yes.

在这本最新的书里，我努力尽可能明确地指出我自身旅程中的各种关键节点。

Well, I mean, so I with this most recent book, I really tried to pinpoint as much as I could kind of the different markers in my own journey.

我尽力以最清晰的方式表达出来，我相信你们所有人都能感同身受。

And I tried to articulate it as best I can, which I'm sure all of you can relate to.

我的意思是，你心里明明有个清晰的想法。

I mean, you have something in your mind that makes sense.

但当你试图说出口时，却词不达意，或者觉得：不对，这话没说对。

But then when you try to say it, you're fumbling over words or you're like, no, that didn't come out right.

不对，这个词用得不对。

No, that's not the right word.

我的情况就是这样。

I mean, that's yeah, that's how it was for me.

因此，我尽最大努力去浓缩和提炼我康复的过程，并意识到很多人告诉我他们也经历过类似的事，但根本无法相提并论。

And so it is my best effort at trying to, condense, crystallize what my healing was like and just recognizing because I also have a lot of people say I went through something similar, but nothing in comparison.

当人们说‘根本没法比’时，我真想伸出手去握住他们的肩膀，告诉他们：别这么比较。

And when people say, oh, nothing in comparison, I just want to reach across and place my hands around their neck and be like, you don't compare.

比较对谁都没有帮助。

Like, comparing doesn't help anyone.

它只会伤害所有人。

It just hurts everyone.

糟糕的事就是糟糕的事。

So bad things are bad things.

受伤的感觉就是受伤的感觉。

Hurt feelings are hurt feelings.

贬低自己从来帮不了任何人。

Like belittling yourself never helped anybody.

你认为在你所走的疗愈之路上，最大的误解是什么？

What do you think is the number one misconception of the journey to healing in the path that you that you walk during that?

我认为最大的误解是认为疗愈是一个终点，而实际上它并不是，因为我觉得疗愈本身就是一场旅程。

I think the number one misconception is that healed being healed is a destination and that it's not like the journey because I think it is the journey.

我认为这是一个持续的过程。

I think it's ongoing.

但你并不需要每天都在经历生命中最糟糕的日子。

And yet you might not be working through the worst day of your life every day for the rest of your life.

但它确实是一个过程。

But it is a process.

我的意思是，疗愈。

I mean, healing.

希望我们都能越来越好。

Hopefully we all improve.

疗愈就是看到某些东西在改善，看到某些东西变得更好。

Healing is just seeing something improve, seeing something get better.

难道我们每个人不都希望在有生之年的每一天都变得更好吗？

And don't all of us want to get better every single day we're alive?

今天要比昨天更好。

Be better today than you were yesterday.

今天要比昨天更善良。

Be kinder today than you were yesterday.

今天要比昨天更强大。

Be stronger today than you were yesterday.

所以，人生中从来不存在一个你终于痊愈、大功告成的时刻。

So there's never just a point in life where you're like healed, done.

就像你已经抵达终点了。

Like, you arrived.

我们继续前进吧。

Let's move on.

我的意思是，这是我们生命中每一天都在进行的过程。

I mean, it's it's a process every day of our life.

我很喜欢你书中提到的‘休息站’这个概念。

I love in the book that you have this thing called rest stops.

我觉得这非常令人安慰，你知道，我是个工作狂，所以读你的书、了解你的故事以及你经历的可怕创伤，对我来说特别珍贵且富有启发。

And I found it very comforting and you know, I'm a workaholic and so a lot of, it was so special and enlightening to read your book and know your story and the horrible trauma you went through.

我很喜欢你关于比较的说法，因为我想，我所经历的创伤就像是被解雇。

I love what you said about comparison because I was like, well, trauma that I have is like getting fired.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

还有别人不喜欢我，像这种事，其实挺轻的。

And people not liking me and like not, you know, like it's light.

对吧？

Right?

真的特别轻。

It's like really light.

这虽然是我自己的事，但我很喜欢你开篇就让这本书适用于每个人。

It's like my own shit, but I love how you open up the book and it really can be for everyone.

在这样的尺度上，你知道，无论是谁经历过失望、心碎、失去，或以任何方式产生共鸣，你都谈到了这些休息站，我喜欢你称之为休息站，因为它不是停滞不前，而是你可以暂停一下，抓住这个时刻去觉察。你提到的第一个休息站是：允许自己为逝去的道路和消失的目的地而哀悼。

On the scale, you know, the scale of like all of these things, anyone who's been disappointed or heartbroken or, you know had a loss or in any way can relate and you talk about these rest stops and I like you call it rest stop because it's like it's not a stop down, it's like you can just pause and take this moment and realize and the first one you say is allow yourself to grieve the lost path and the destinations that disappeared with it.

避免比较的陷阱。

Avoid the trap of comparison.

你这话是什么意思？

What do you mean by that?

我觉得，当我们经历糟糕的事情，或者当你试图向别人讲述自己生命中的低谷时，我不是想说得很刻薄，但很多时候，你的不安会让别人感到不适，他们只是希望你快点好起来。

So I think that when we have something bad or when you try to tell someone about a bad time in your life, I don't I don't think this meanly, but I think a lot of time your discomfort makes other people uncomfortable, and they just want you to hurry up and get better.

他们只是希望你快点重新开心起来，或者把你的不安藏起来。

They just want you to hurry up and be happy again or hide your discomfort away.

当你自己设想的未来发生改变时，感到悲伤、愤怒或沮丧是完全正常的。

And it's okay to be sad or angry or frustrated when the vision that you saw for yourself changed.

我们中有多少人的人生能完全按照计划进行呢？

Because how many of us ever have everything go exactly to plan?

我当然不是这个意思。

I I definitely mean, don't.

生活中充满了各种小小的转折和绕行。

Life is full of, like, little pivots, little little detours.

有时候我们会遇到非常重大的转折。

And sometimes we come across really big ones.

你知道的。

You know?

我被绑架的经历就是一个巨大的绕行，如果我没有被绑架，我本该过上的人生。

My my kidnapping was a really big detour and the life that I would have led had I not been kidnapped.

会和我今天的生活截然不同。

Would be very different from what my life is today.

很长一段时间里，我只想回到曾经的那个自己。

And for a long time, I just wanted to go back to being the girl who I had once been.

我的意思是，获救后最难接受的一件事，或许就是意识到我再也回不到被绑架前的那个伊丽莎白·斯马特了。

I mean, that was maybe one of the hardest things about peeling after my rescue was just recognizing the fact that I could never go back and be the Elizabeth Smart before I was kidnapped.

我的意思是，我无法倒退回去。

I mean, I couldn't go backwards.

我只能继续向前。

I could only go forwards.

这很难。

And that was hard.

我感到沮丧和愤怒，因为我觉得这一切都不是我想要发生的。

And I was frustrated and I was angry because I felt like I didn't ask for any of this to happen to me.

我没有邀请那个男人来绑架我。

I didn't invite this man to come kidnap me.

我不希望被囚禁九个月。

I didn't want to be held captive for nine months.

所以，它在很大程度上改变了我的人生。

So in a very big way, it changed my life.

当生活没有按照你设想的方式发展时，感到愤怒或难过是完全可以理解的。

And it's okay to be angry or upset when life doesn't go the way that you envisioned it for yourself.

有时候，意识到自己的人生不会如你所愿，就像是梦想的逝去。

And it is like kind of the dying of dreams sometimes recognizing the fact that your life isn't going to be what you thought it was going to be.

为这种失去哀悼也是可以的。

And it's okay to mourn that.

你爸爸在纪录片里说，当伊丽莎白离开时，他觉得我还是个小女孩。

Your dad said in the documentary, he was like, when Elizabeth left, he was like my little girl.

但当你被找到、带到警局，他第一次见到你时，他说，现在她是个女人了。

And then when he, when you were found and brought into the police station and he saw you for the first time, he was like, now she's a woman.

你有吗？

Did you?

他几乎认不出她了。

And he's like, almost didn't recognize her in a sense.

你有没有觉得，自己真的像他描述的那样成长或改变了？

Did you feel like you had that that you grew in that way or changed in that way as much as he kind of described it?

我的意思是，你知道，在我被绑架之前，我还没来过月经。

I mean, well, you know, before I was kidnapped, like I hadn't started my period yet.

我还是个小女孩。

I was still a little girl.

我在被囚禁期间来了月经。

I started my period in captivity.

你知道，我在被囚禁期间经历了身体的变化。

You know, body changes happened while I was in captivity.

所以，然后呢，我营养不良。

So and then, you know, I was malnourished.

没人照顾我。

I wasn't taken care of.

我的样子变了。

Like, I didn't look.

我看起来不一样了。

I looked different.

我的意思是，当我获救时，我已经和绑架者在沙漠里待了好几天，试图搭便车回犹他州。

I mean, when I was rescued, I'd spent days out in the desert trying to hitchhike back to Utah with my captors.

所以我不知道你能不能看出来，但我皮肤非常白。

So I don't know if you can tell, but I'm I'm very fair.

我皮肤非常苍白。

I'm very pasty.

而且，我被晒伤了。

And, I was burned.

我的皮肤被太阳晒得发红、脱皮，还肿了起来。

Like, my skin was sunburned and peeling and and puffy from the sun.

然后，从身体上来说，我发育得更成熟了。

And then, like, physically, body had matured more.

所以，我的确看起来不一样了。

So, I mean, yeah, I did look I looked different.

我身上很脏。

I was dirty.

我脏透了。

I was filthy.

是的。

Yeah.

我看起来不一样了。

I looked different.

又有你一个休息站。

There's another one of your rest stops.

我不会全都做，因为我们得赶紧看书，但我特别喜欢这句话：抵制孤立的冲动。

I'm not gonna do them all because we need to get the book to read it, but that I love that says, resist the urge to isolate.

勇敢地追求联系。

Pursue connection fearlessly.

天啊。

Man, oh man.

我觉得这真是非常好的建议。

I think that is some really good advice.

你为什么觉得指出这一点很重要？

Why was that important for you to point out?

因为，再次强调，就拿我的情况当例子。

Because so, again, just taking my case as the example.

当我被绑架时，说真的，就我一个人。

When I was kidnapped, I mean, it was just me.

我当时就和我的两个绑架者在一起。

I was like, I was there with my two captors.

那里没有别人。

There wasn't anybody else there.

我的意思是，像强奸和性暴力这样的罪行，也让人感到极度孤立。

I mean, taking the crimes of rape and sexual violence, that also feels very isolating.

我的意思是，这在文明社会里通常不会被谈论。

I mean, it's not something typically talked about in polite society.

很少有人会说：咱们聚在一起，好好剖析一下我们人生中最糟糕的时刻吧。

Like, very few people are like, let's get together and just dissect the worst moments of our lives.

我觉得，通常来说，性暴力、强奸——我的意思是，甚至性行为，在某种程度上，取决于你成长的环境和背景，这些都属于禁忌话题，在文明社会里根本不会被提及。

And I feel like typically, like sexual violence, rape, I mean, even sex to a degree, depending on the community you were raised in, your background, they're all kind of taboo subjects and they just don't really come up in polite society.

所以当我回来的时候，根本没人公开说：我被强奸了，我被虐待了。

And so because when I got back, nobody just was out there being like, I was raped, I was abused.

我的意思是，这就像把见不得人的秘密藏在壁橱里。

I mean, it was kind of like, keep your skeletons hidden in the closet.

我最终感到非常孤独，对发生的事感到深深的羞耻和尴尬。

I ended up feeling very alone and I felt a lot of shame and I felt a lot of embarrassment over what happened.

尽管我知道这并不是我的错，但我还是无法控制地产生这些感受。

Even though I knew it wasn't my fault, I still couldn't help but feel those things.

如果有一个人在身边，那该有多安慰啊。

And it would have been so comforting.

如果有一个人，无论我是否认识他，但能公开地说出‘我是一个幸存者’，那该多好。

It would have been so nice just to have someone else out there, whether I knew him personally or not, but just out there publicly saying, I'm a survivor.

我经历过强奸。

I experienced rape.

这让我感觉就是这样。

It made me feel like this.

这让我如此痛苦。

It made it hurt me this way.

它引发了这种情绪。

Like it caused this emotion.

多年来，我一直在质疑，你知道的，X、Y 和 Z。

And now I've questioned, you know, X, Y and Z for years.

只要听到有人在外面说出同样的话，对我来说就是莫大的安慰，我想这正是我继续做下去的原因——我不希望任何人再像我那样感到如此孤立和孤单。

Just hearing someone else out there saying those same things would have been such a comfort to me, which I suppose is why I continue doing what I do is because I don't want anyone else to feel quite as isolated and alone as I felt.

虽然我知道有成千上万、甚至数百万人也经历过。

Although I know there are thousands, millions of people who do.

我觉得，为了治愈，为了我们每个人以自己的方式向前走，我们都需要彼此。

And I just feel like for us to heal, us, each one of us in our own way to move forward, we all need each other.

有句老话说，养育孩子需要一个村庄。

I mean, there's that saying it takes a village to raise a child.

我觉得这话没错。

I think that's true.

要让我们所有人都向前迈进，也需要一个村庄。

It takes it takes a village for all of us to move forward.

你知道，我们需要医生来照顾我们。

You know, we need we need our doctors to take care of us.

比如，如果你在遭受性侵后去看医生，你需要医生进行法医检查，以处理你可能有的任何医疗需求。

Like, if you go in after being raped, you know, you need a doctor to do the forensic medical exam to address any medical needs you may have.

你需要朋友坐在那里握着你的手，或者带你去吃冰淇淋，让你暂时忘掉那些不好的事情。

You know, you need the friend to sit there and hold your hand or take you out for ice cream to take your mind off of whatever bad things happened.

你需要家人在身边，让你知道你被爱着、被支持着。

You know, you need your family there just to know that you're loved and supported.

你需要老师帮助你开阔思维，改变你的视角。

You need the teacher to, like, help broaden your mind, change your perspective.

你需要导师。

Like, you need the mentors.

你需要所有这些人的支持。

You need you need all of these people.

我们，我不知道有没有人能完全独自康复。

We like, I don't know that any of us can heal all on our own.

我们需要彼此。

We need each other.

这很有趣。

That's interesting.

这实际上引出了我作为创伤幸存者真正想问你的问题。

And it actually brings up what I really wanted to ask you as a survivor of something traumatic.

你知道，我们看到幸存者的两种版本，实际上还有许多其他版本。

You know, we see both both versions of survivors, and there are actually many versions.

但像你这样的人，已经进行了大量的疗愈，积极地走出来，并在做着了不起的工作。

But there is someone like you who has done so much healing and you're out there and you're you're doing amazing work.

而有些人则真的深陷在那一刻，被困在创伤中，困在那个地方。

And then there are people who are really just truly stuck in that moment, stuck in that trauma, stuck in that that place.

所以，你认为孤立确实是导致他们无法前进的主要原因吗？

And so do you think that the isolation is really what kinda contributes to that inability to to move on, move forward?

或者，你觉得像你这样的人和那些人之间的关键区别是什么？

Or, like, what is the defining what do you think is the difference between someone like you and someone like that?

我认为你提出了一个很好的观点，我 definitely 会说这是影响人们能否向前迈进的关键因素。

I think you bring up a great point, and I would definitely say that is a major impact on whether people move forward.

我还会说，让我们更仔细地审视一下这种情况。

I'd also say, let's like, look at the situation a little bit closer.

这个人遭受虐待时的处境是怎样的？

Did this person what was the situation in which this person was abused?

是家人吗？

Was it a family member?

是本应保护你的人吗？

Was it someone that was supposed to protect you?

而正是他们对你实施了虐待。

And they're the ones that's abusing you.

你是否生活在没人会相信你的恐惧中？

Are you living in fear that you won't be believed?

你是否只是担心会给他人带来不适？

Are you just worried about the discomfort that you're gonna bring to someone else?

我认为你所描述的，可能是我在这份工作中见过最令人心碎的事情之一，那就是一种活着的丧失——一个人经历了可怕的遭遇，但他们的身体仍在运转。

I think what you've explained is probably one of the saddest things I see, in this line of work, and it is that living loss of life where someone has gone through something horrific and their bodies are still functioning.

他们仍在呼吸，但其实并没有真正地活着。

They're still breathing, but they're not actually living.

这正是我所见过最令人心碎的事情之一。

And that is one of the saddest things that I see.

我觉得人们很容易陷入这种状态，原因有很多。

And I feel like there's many, many reasons why people can very easily get stuck there.

我也可能曾陷入这种状态。

I could have been stuck there.

我认为这其中很大一部分原因，在于有人愿意相信我。

And I think a lot of it came down to having people believe me.

实际上，很少有人会直接说你在撒谎。

I mean, very rarely is it that someone says I'm lying.

我认为绝大多数人的反应都是：是的，我相信你。

I think the vast majority of people are like, yep, I believe you.

所以，只要我一开口，就有人相信我。

So it was having that belief as soon as I ever said anything.

我被爱和支持包围着，知道无论我说出什么，都会被爱。

It was being surrounded by love and support and knowing that I was going to be loved regardless of what came out of my mouth.

所以我认为这带来了巨大的不同。

So I think that made that made just a huge difference.

然后，我被允许按照自己的节奏前进，而不会一直想着：‘已经六个月了。’

And then being allowed to move at my own pace without sitting there thinking, oh, well, it's been six months.

我应该已经在这里了。

I should be I should be here.

已经一年了。

It's been a year.

已经十年了。

It's been ten years.

我应该已经在这里了。

I should be here.

我怎么了？

What's wrong with me?

为什么别人都没事？

Why why is everyone else fine?

但我就是无法摆脱这个困境。

But I can't get past this.

我想，这种比较真的是毁灭性的。

I think, again, that comparison is devastating.

本集《Lady Gang》由OneSkin赞助播出。

This episode of Lady Gang is brought to you by OneSkin.

Becca不知怎么就搞到了。

Becca somehow got it.

她总是能最先得到东西，她试了之后非常喜欢。

She gets everything first, and she tried it, and she loved it.

现在我们就在这里了。

And now here we are.

OneSkin 是一家了不起的公司，他们发现了所谓的僵尸细胞，这些细胞正是导致我们皮肤松弛、出现细纹和皱纹的原因。

OneSkin is an incredible company, and they basically discovered this thing called zombie cells, which means these cells are like what causes us to be like flabby, get fine lines, wrinkles, all those things.

因此，他们由此开发出了 OS1，OneSkin 的专有肽成分。

And so they led to the creation of OS1, OneSkin's proprietary peptide.

我特别喜欢、最近一直在用的产品是他们的带色保湿霜。

What I love, the product that I'm really into that I've been trying, is their tinted moisturizer.

我用的是浅中色号。

I've got the light medium.

我特别喜欢的是，很多带色保湿霜的 SPF 都在 38 以上。

And what I love about it is that a lot of tinted moisturizers have an SPF 38 or above.

但它们会让皮肤变得很干。

They, like, dry out.

到了第五个小时，你就会想：等等。

And by hour five, you're like, wait.

我怎么不像早上那样水润透亮了呢？

I'm not all, like, dewy and wonderful like I was this morning.

但它实际上对皮肤有很好的滋养效果，我很喜欢这一点。

But it actually stays really supportive of the skin, and I love that.

OneSkin的OS1肽已被证明能够针对可见的衰老迹象。

OneSkin's OS one peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging.

太好了。

Thank God.

限时优惠，使用代码 lady 在 oneskin.co/lady 购买OneSkin可享受15%折扣。

For a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code lady at oneskin.co/lady.

在 oneskin.co/lady 使用代码 lady 可享15%折扣。

That's 15% off at oneskin.co/ladywith code lady.

购买后，他们会询问你是从哪里了解到他们的。

After you purchase, they're gonna ask you where you heard about them.

请支持他们，并告诉他们你是从《Lady Gang》播客了解到他们的。

Please support them and tell them you heard about them on the Lady Gang podcast.

我是贾斯汀·西尔维斯特。

I'm Justin Sylvester.

我是布莱克·李·索顿。

And I'm Blake Lee Thornton.

欢迎收听《昨日凝视》，这档播客我们将剖析历史上最具转折性的流行文化时刻，并给予它们应得的酷儿之爱。

Join us for Yestergaze, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history and give them the queer love that they deserve.

那些在拨号上网时代让我们激动不已的事。

The things that got us riled up during dial up.

那些本该是分手却成了热吻的时刻。

Those makeouts that should have been breakouts.

以及那些被永久铭刻在流行文化中的经典瞬间。

And the drops that were cemented in pop.

我说的就是贝尼弗。

I'm talking Bennifer.

泰拉对娜奥米。

Tyra versus Naomi.

汤姆·克鲁斯跳上沙发的那一幕。

Tom Cruise jumping on that couch.

还有更多。

And so much more.

所以请在 Apple Podcasts、Spotify 或您收听音频内容的任何平台为我们评分并订阅。

So please rate us, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere you get audio related content.

我们还接受 Venmo 和 Cash App。

We also take Venmo and Cash App.

银行转账呢？

ACH?

信用卡号也可以。

Or credit card number as well.

我们很灵活。

We're we're malleable.

是的。

Yeah.

知道。

Know.

我们今天是同志。

We're gay today.

女性团体。

The lady gang.

你会被激怒吗？

Do you, like, get triggered?

因为就像你说的，你永远不会觉得永远好了。

I because like you said, like, there's never a point where you're like, I'm good forever.

所以我们现在正处在这样一个新闻周期中：萨凡纳·加特里的母亲被带走了。

So right now we're sitting in a news cycle where Savannah Guthrie's mother has been taken.

对吧？

Right?

大家都在想知道她在哪里。

Like, and everyone's wondering where she is.

她还活着吗？

Is she alive?

我的意思是，这并不完全相同，但情况类似，都是全国性的新闻媒体在搜寻这位失踪的人。

I mean, it's not similar, but it's a similar thing where there's this national news media hunt for this person who's been taken.

这会让你感到困扰吗？

Are you triggered by that?

你对这件事有什么想法吗？

Do you have thoughts about that?

我并没有因此感到困扰，但我知道，执法部门会告诉你，如果一个人失踪后在前24到48小时内没被找到，他生还的几率几乎降为零。

I don't I'm not triggered by it, but I I know, like, what law enforcement will tell you if a person disappears and they're not found within the first twenty four to forty eight hours, the chances of their survival dropped down to almost zero percent.

我的意思是，这几乎就像他们已经死了。

I mean, it's it's almost like they're dead.

但我一直觉得，我们不能放弃，因为如果当初对我案情也是这种心态，那我今天就不会坐在这里了。

But I've just always felt like we we can't give up because if that was the mentality around my case, then I wouldn't be here today.

我的意思是，我确实回来了，也确实有其他受害者最终回来了。

I mean, I I did come back and there are other victims who do come back.

所以，尽管每一天过去都让人感觉希望越来越渺茫，似乎她被找到的可能性越来越低，但我觉得我们必须提醒自己，永远不能放弃。

And so even though every passing day feels like we're losing more and more hope or it seems like it's less likely that she'll be found, I think we just have to remind ourselves that we can never give up.

我们需要每个人的帮助。

We need everybody's help.

我们需要每个人保持警惕，总有人会看到些什么。

We need everyone to keep their eyes open and that someone will see something.

一定有人知道一些情况。

Someone does know something.

如果我们保持警觉，保持留意，而不仅仅只是想，哦，那看起来有点奇怪。

And if we stay alert and we stay aware and we don't just think, oh, well, that seemed kind of strange.

但如果那真的很奇怪，别人知道的可能比我多。

But if that really is strange, someone else knows more than me.

不要犹豫。

Don't hesitate.

不要这么想。

Don't think that.

直接打电话吧。

Just pick up the phone.

打电话给执法部门。

Call law enforcement.

告诉他们你所知道的。

Tell them what you know.

告诉他们你所看到的。

Tell them what you see.

因为你永远不知道最坏的情况会是什么。

And because you never know what is the worst thing that can happen.

最坏的情况就是你弄错了。

The worst thing that can happen is that you're wrong.

那没什么大不了的。

That's not that's not a big deal.

我宁愿弄错，也不愿对正在发生的犯罪视而不见。

I'd rather be wrong than keep my eyes closed to a crime happening.

太疯狂了。

So wild.

我的意思是，我能想象这一定挺奇怪的，而且这也不是第一次发生这种事了，但当你在旁观时，知道曾经你自己就是那个被关注的故事，这一定特别不可思议。

Like, I I can imagine that it's sort of a strange thing, and this is not the first time this has happened, but it's gotta be a strange thing to be watching and know that, like, at one point, you were the story that we were watching.

你明白我的意思吗？

You know what I mean?

这一定特别离奇。

Like, that has got to be so wild.

是的，没错。

It it yes.

确实如此。

It is.

因为从小到大，我就是一个普通人。

Because, like, growing up, I was just normal.

我的梦想从来不是当演员或摇滚明星。

Like, I didn't like my dream was not ever to be like an actress or a rock star.

像那种出名的人

Like a famous

普通人。

person.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Right.

不。

No.

或者政治家。

Like, or a politician.

那从来不是我的梦想。

Like, that was not my dream.

那从来对我没有吸引力。

Like, that didn't ever appeal to me.

然后突然间，是的，所有人都突然认出了我，认识了我。

And all of a sudden, yeah, all these people all of a sudden recognized me, knew me.

看着这些故事，看着其他案件逐渐展开，那些我常放在心中祈祷、期盼他们归来的人，以及我如何在情感上深深投入他们的经历。

And watching these stories, watching these other cases unfold and like the people that I keep in my thoughts and my prayers and and want and wait for them to return and how emotionally invested I get in in their stories.

我的意思是，有时候试着想象这些如果发生在我自己身上，简直令人难以置信。

I mean, to try to imagine that for myself sometimes is a little bit mind boggling.

成为父母之后，因为你和你父母的经历，你是否不得不做更多、不同的工作？

Did you have to do different work, more work, you know, when you became a parent because of what you had been through and what your parents had been through.

在你走过这段历程之后，作为伊丽莎白·斯马特——一个独立的个体，然后你又成为了拥有孩子的伊丽莎白·斯马特，带着你这样的经历，这之间有没有像一座大山横亘在你面前？

Was there like a mountain ahead of you as I've I've come through this the other side as Elizabeth Smart, just the individual who's an independent person on her own, and then there's the Elizabeth Smart who has children, and you have the experience that you do.

我觉得我可能和每一个普通人没什么不同。

I feel like I feel like I'm probably the same as every other person.

当你有了孩子，你根本无法预知自己将面对什么。

And that when you have a when you have a child, you have no idea what you're getting into.

你完全无法想象，这个你如此深爱、愿意为他付出一切的小生命，会带来多么深刻的影响。

Like, you have no idea how deeply this little tiny person you love so wholly and completely and would do anything for.

但另一方面，你也会突然意识到：天啊，这真的太难了。

And then also on the flip side, how you were just like, oh my gosh, this is so hard.

我太累了。

I'm so tired.

我身上全是，我不知道这是尿、吐出来的奶还是便便。

I'm covered in don't I know if that's pee, spit up, poo.

我现在连换床单的力气都没有了。

Like, I don't even have the energy to change my sheets right now.

我就直接把毛巾铺在上面。

I'll just I'll just lay the towel on top

然后躺在毛巾上。

of it and lie down on top of it

以后再处理吧。

and figure it out later.

我懂。

Been there.

是的。

Yeah.