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你好。
Hello.
你好。
Hello.
你好。
Hello.
欢迎来到由BetterHelp赞助的BABYGANG系列节目。
Welcome to the BABYGANG series sponsored by BetterHelp.
这是全球最大的在线心理咨询平台，全程线上服务，因为我们就是爱方便。
It's the world's largest online therapy service, 100% online because we love convenience.
我们特别重视心理健康，而且每个人都忙得不可开交。
We love taking care of our mental health, and we are busy, busy, busy people.
我是你们的主持人贝卡·托宾，这感觉真有点怪，因为我当了十年播客三人组的一员。
I am your host, Becca Tobin, and this feels very weird because I have been part of a podcast trio for a decade.
现在呢，我感觉自己像没带浮板在游泳。
And right now, I feel like I am swimming without floaties.
这真让人害怕。
This is terrifying.
但我得挺过去，因为我早就想聊这些了。
But I'm gonna get over it because I have been wanting to have these conversations.
我们这群姐妹里，好多都是妈妈，或者快当妈妈了，也有当爸妈的、当姑姑舅舅的，反正就是对养孩子这事感兴趣的人。
A lot of us in the lady gang are mothers, soon to be mothers, parents, aunts, uncles, whatever, or just curious about what it would be like to have a kid.
我们会尽量不把你吓跑的。
We'll try not to scare you off.
我做这个是因为四年前我儿子出生了，那时候我有幸接触到很多超棒的专家，还有朋友之间特别有意思的讨论，我就想找个地方把这些都分享出来。
But I am doing this because four years ago, my son was born, and, I just was able to have access to a lot of incredible experts, conversations that I found to be really interesting among friends, and I wanted a place to share all of this.
所以现在，我就在这儿了。
And so here I am.
我还有个好消息要告诉你们。
I also have exciting news.
我和扎克要通过代孕迎来一个女儿，就在今年夏天末，我们激动坏了。
Zach and I are welcoming a baby girl at the end of this summer via surrogacy, and we are thrilled.
我们有点害怕。
We are scared.
之前只有一个孩子，你们管这叫单胎吗？
We've had a singleton is that what you call him?
四年了，就一个娃。
Singleton for four years now.
这四年简直太棒了，神奇又美好，所以我们决定再来一次。
It's been incredible, wonderful, magical, and we are doing it again.
第二轮了。
Round two.
我们还没告诉儿子呢。
We have not told our son yet.
要是你路上碰见他，千万别嘴快，别给我们揭了底。
So if you see him on the streets, please don't don't ruin this for us.
我们自己都不知道该怎么跟他说。
We have no idea how we're gonna tell him.
有什么建议欢迎私信我。
Open to suggestions, so please DM me.
Anyway，他是通过代孕出生的。
Anyway, he was born via surrogacy.
她也会通过代孕出生。
She will be born via surrogacy.
就像我说的，这几年我一直在跟很多人聊这事儿。
And like I said, over the last several years, I've just had a lot of, conversations in this space.
我们待会儿会聊很多跟生育相关的内容。
And we're gonna talk about a lot of this will be fertility.
有的是怀孕期间怎么备孕，有的是跟爸妈聊育儿，还会约上我几个朋友聊聊。
Some of it will be trying to conceive while you're pregnant, conversations with parents about parenting, just meeting some of my friends.
说实话，我也说不准。
And I don't know.
这就是我们正在做的事，第一位嘉宾是我的代孕妈妈，凯蒂。
This is what we're doing, and my first guest is my surrogate, Katie.
她正在替我们怀女儿。
She is carrying our daughter.
以前怀福特的时候，我们特别低调，几乎没跟任何人说，原因有几个。
The first time around when Ford was coming, we were really private and very secretive about him coming because a few things.
这世界有时候真够糟的，总有人爱对别人怎么组建家庭指手画脚，真能把好事搅黄。
The world is a shitty place sometimes, and people really like to insert their opinions on how you create your family, and that can really spoil the experience.
我们当时很紧张，毕竟之前失败了太多次。
We were nervous because we had had so many failed attempts.
但这次，我已经练出厚脸皮了，你看吧，别人怎么评头论足我都无所谓。
But this time around, I have such a thick skin with people as you'll see, judging my decisions, my choices.
那又怎样？
So what the fuck?
你懂的吧？
You know?
为什么不呢？
Why not?
今天我们请来的嘉宾来自德克萨斯州的奥斯汀，毕业于德克萨斯大学，拿了人类发展与家庭科学的学士学位，职业生涯一直围绕家庭支持展开，做过寄养、收养、自闭症服务，现在做试管婴儿。
Our guest today is originally from Austin, Texas, holds a Bachelor in Science in Human Development and Family Sciences from the University of Texas, and has built a diverse career supporting families through foster care, adoption, autism services, and now IVF.
她现在在Elevate工作，每天都会接触捐卵者、代孕妈妈和准父母们，帮他们解决问题。
She currently works for Elevate has the opportunity to support egg donors, surrogates, and intended parents daily.
现在她住在亚特兰大，平时喜欢和丈夫还有两个小孩子待在一起。
Now based in Atlanta, she enjoys spending time with her husband and two young children.
凯蒂，我就不提你姓啥了，因为网上有些人真的挺怪的。
Katie, I'm not giving your last name because people are weirdos.
我的
My
现在正怀着我孩子的那位代孕妈妈。
surrogate that's currently halfway through a pregnancy with my child.
天哪。
Wow.
你好。
Hello.
谢谢你愿意来参加这个对话。
Thank you for doing this.
是的。
Yeah.
太有意思了。
So fun.
我们居然真的在这儿，简直不敢相信。
This is crazy that we're here.
我懂。
I know.
是啊，我们俩一路走来真的经历了不少，但现在总算看到曙光了。
It's really been a we've been through quite the journey already already together, but things are we're on the ups upswing of this whole experience.
你今天来主要是想聊聊你的经历，但你也在这个领域工作，所以咱们还能顺便谈谈代孕这种非传统造家庭的方式，这可是难得的机会。
So you're here to kind of discuss yourself and this particular journey, but also we have the rare ability to discuss the overarching experience of surrogacy and just making families a nontraditional way because you work in the field now.
首先，我想问你个私人问题。
So first of all, a personal question.
你是怎么意识到自己想当代孕妈妈的？什么时候开始有这个想法的？
How did you realize you wanted to be a surrogate and when?
其实不是某个瞬间让我突然决定要当的。
It wasn't I don't think it was like a moment that I knew I wanted to.
我早就接触过这行了，最早是从捐卵开始的。
I'd been around it long enough starting with egg donation.
真正让我下定决心的是塔拉，她是我好朋友，也是Elevate的CEO。
And then really it was when Tara did it, who's my good friend, who is CEO of Elevate.
她做代孕的时候，我全程陪着她，亲眼看着整个过程，真的太震撼了。
When she went through it and going through it with her and just it was just amazing watching that.
那时候我就觉得，嗯，我也可以。
I think then I felt like I could.
就是那种感觉。
Like that.
她都能做到，我当然也可以。
She can do it.
我觉得，这事儿我真能做。
Like, this is a thing I can do.
我自己就有健康的孩子。
I have my own healthy kids.
我的孕期也一直很顺利。
I have healthy pregnancies.
那为什么不试试呢？
And why not?
所以有一天，我就给塔拉发了条消息。
So, yeah, one day I just texted Tara.
她早就一直催我了，这事儿拖了挺久。
She'd been bugging me, of course, to do it for long enough.
我说，我觉得……我想试试。
And I said, I think I think I want to.
咱就干吧。
Like, let's do it.
能有Elevate这家机构在身边支持，是我能下定决心的关键原因
Having proximity to Elevate as an agency was a huge part of that.
不然我肯定完全摸不着头脑，根本不知道该从哪儿开始
I think I wouldn't have felt like I even knew where to begin.
对的
Yeah.
跟正在听节目的各位解释一下，Elevate就是我当初给我儿子Ford用的那家机构，现在Katie也在和他们合作
So Elevate, for anybody listening, is the agency that I used for Ford, my son, and now the one that Katie works with.
我之前总说Elevate团队的核心秘诀就是——他们团队里负责处理这些案例、协助这些家庭的工作人员，很多都亲身经历过同样的流程，不管是用过捐卵、代孕，还是像泰勒和凯尔那样，就是通过这种方式组建了自己的家庭。
So I always talk about their magic sauce is that at Elevate, they have a lot of the people working on these cases and helping these families are people who have been through the process, whether it's egg donation and surrogacy or have you know, like Taylor and Kyle created their families in this way.
所以跟你对接的人不会是那种完全不懂内情、没共鸣的外人。
So you're not talking to somebody who doesn't, like, get it.
那你当时有没有过犹豫呢？
Did you have any hesitation?
有没有什么具体的顾虑，害得你没早下决心做这件事？
Was there was there, like, a one hang up that you, you know, that kept you from doing it sooner?
我只是想确认，我再也不想生孩子了。
I think I just I wanted to know I was done having my own children.
这点对我来说特别重要。
That felt important.
其实，那时候我就决定了。
And really, it was pretty much right then.
我最小的女儿那时候多大来着？
Like, when my youngest was how old is she?
一岁半。
A year and a half.
我就想，行了，我们不生了。
I was like, you know, we are done.
我不想再拖下去了。
And, yeah, I just didn't wanna wait around anymore.
我以为这事儿得花挺长时间。
I thought it would take a while.
我知道这得花不少时间。
I knew it would take a while.
没错。
And yeah.
你喜欢怀孕的感觉吗？
Did you love being pregnant?
你是不是那种特别享受怀孕的怪人？
Were you the alien that loved being pregnant?
不喜欢。
No.
老有人问我，是不是因为太怀念怀孕才想当代孕妈妈？
I feel like that question comes up a lot of like, do you wanna be a surrogate because you just miss being pregnant?
我觉得吧——
I'm like
对。
Yeah.
不是吧。
Mm-mm.
不是。
No.
也许对某些人来说是这样。
Maybe that is the case for some.
对。
Yeah.
也许吧
Maybe it
确实。
is.
我是说，我想知道真正喜欢怀孕的女性占多大比例。
I mean, I think I wanna know the percentage of women who truly love being pregnant.
我觉得比例挺低的。
I think it's quite low.
我确实是。
I yeah.
必须是这样。
It has to be.
我怀孕时都很顺利。
I had healthy pregnancies.
我是说，一点都没提心吊胆。
Like, I didn't have scares.
你懂的。
You know?
我那时候
I was
我算运气好，但真没想再经历一次。
lucky in that way, but it wasn't like, just let me do that again.
你懂的。
You know?
那对于考虑当代孕妈妈的人，大家都会问，到底有哪些硬性要求呢？
And for people who are considering becoming surrogates, everyone asks, like, what are the hard and fast rules of being able to do so?
是的。
Yeah.
问得好。
Great question.
得自己生过孩子，怀孕过程也得一般比较顺利，每个人情况都不太一样。
Having your own child, having uncomplicated generally uncomplicated pregnancies, everybody tends to have something.
不能有严重的产后抑郁，这条特别重要。
Not suffering severe postpartum depression is a big one.
能不用药物完成怀孕，这点也很关键。
Being able to do pregnancies without medication use is big.
得有靠谱的支持系统。
Support system in place.
对。
Yeah.
这些是我正努力回想的主要几点。
Those are the top I'm trying to think.
总的来说，就是医学上没有并发症。
Generally, just medically uncomplicated.
这才是最关键的一点。
That's the big that's the big thing.
是的。
Yeah.
至于心理评估，我经常跟人说，当他们问‘你怎么知道代孕妈妈不会想留下孩子’的时候，这就是我要强调的。
Well, and the psych evaluations are what I like to point out to people when they ask the question of how do you know when this that the surrogate doesn't wanna keep the baby?
这是我最常被问到的问题。
My favorite question?
这问题太常见了。
Such a common question.
我都回答过一百遍了。
I have answered it a 100 times.
你有吗？
Have you?
那你一般怎么回答？
And how do you answer it?
没有。
No.
没有。
No.
我不想留下这个孩子。
I don't wanna keep the baby.
要是我真的想要孩子，自己生一个不是简单多了吗？何必折腾这一套。
Like, if I wanted a baby, it would be so much easier just to have my own baby than going through all this.
你觉得会不会有女人特别有感情依恋？
Do you think that there are women who become super attached?
我的意思是，这种怀孕和你怀自己亲生孩子的时候，在心理和情感上，有不一样吗？
Like, I guess, does this pregnancy differ from when you carried your biological children just mentally mentally and emotionally?
真的不一样。
It really does.
从一开始感觉就完全不一样。
It it really feels different from the start.
我觉得做代孕得有正确的动机和心态。
I think you do have to go into surrogacy with a good intention and mental perspective.
这第一步挺关键的。
So that's step one.
你得清楚，这孩子不是你的。
I mean, you go into it knowing the baby is not yours.
你也不希望它是你的。
You don't want it to be yours.
你只为那对父母开心。
You're excited for the parents.
这里面差别太大了。
There's so much different about it.
但这次的感觉跟我以前完全不一样，简直像在做一场高风险的代管 babysitting。
But this feels like so different from mine and that it's like this high stakes babysitting.
我特别想保护她。
Like, I feel very protective of her.
你懂的吧？
You know?
比对自己亲生的还要上心？
Like, wanna More so than your own?
是的。
Yeah.
根本不是那么回事。
Was like, no.
我非得把这个项目拿个A不可，你明白吧？
I gotta do, like, I'm gonna get an a in this project for sure, you know?
以前我呢，就觉得差不多就行。
With mine, I'm like, it's fine.
我回头再补上。
I'll make up for it later.
你啊，肯定会做得
Well, you're gonna do a
比我怎么努力都强得多。
whole lot better than I ever even could try.
所以你根本不用太拼命，就能超过之前那水平。
So you you don't need to try that hard to improve upon what was happening.
这太搞笑了。
That's so funny.
当代孕妈妈的时候，你得有自己的孩子，而且有时候孩子还小，跟你自己的差不多。
I guess that's the other thing is is you have to have your own children when you are a surrogate, and sometimes they are young kids like your own.
你家孩子怎么适应的？
How are your kids handling it?
你是怎么跟孩子们说的？
How did you tell the the kids?
其实这也是很多人会担心的问题。
Like, that's also something that people get concerned about.
比如说，连我自己都觉得挺混乱的——我们刚开始跟福特解释他是怎么来到这个家的，对孩子来说真的太难理解了。
Like, just the confusion of even for myself, like, we're starting to tell Ford how he came here, and it's so confusing for kids.
这事儿真不好说得清楚。
It's it's hard to break it down.
所以我挺好奇，你是怎么跟孩子们说的？
So I'm curious what you've been saying to them.
是啊。
Yeah.
就我自己的情况来说，我大儿子还记得我怀小儿子汤森斯的时候。
In my particular circumstance, my oldest remembers me being pregnant with Towns, the youngest.
所以一开始，他一直以为是要来个新弟弟或妹妹。
And so at first, you know, he was heart set on another sibling.
所以我们根本不用专门解释什么代孕的事儿。
So it wasn't the surrogacy that we had to explain.
关键是，我们不会再有另一个孩子了。
It was like the fact that we're not having another child.
我们不会带另一个宝宝回家了。
We're not bringing home another baby.
所以我们得慢慢让他接受这个事实。
So he had to we had to work through that.
但他现在想通了，对他来说最棒的是见到了你们。
But he's come around and the best part for him was meeting you guys.
我们有机会让他见你们，他就能想象了，你知道吧，这个宝宝有妈妈、爸爸、哥哥，就像他自己一样。
We had the opportunity for him to meet and he could, like, picture it, you know, that this baby has a mom and a dad and a brother and, like, just like he.
他有了一个妹妹，福特也一样。
He got to have a sister and so does Ford.
这些相似之处帮了他大忙。
So those parallels helped him.
对我最小的女儿来说，这早就习以为常了。
My youngest, this is like her normal.
这也太神奇了。
This is wild.
我跟你说过这个故事了。
I told you the story.
她把气球塞在衣服底下，说：我也有个朋友的小宝宝。
Like, she put a balloon under her shirt and said, I have a friend's baby too.
她简直就是个小小代孕妈妈。
Like, this is, like, just she's a little surrogate.
她根本不想有个兄弟姐妹。
She has no desire to have a sibling.
她可喜欢这样了。
Like, she loves this.
这简直太棒了。
This is the best.
真暖心啊。
So sweet.
我不确定这是否适用于所有机构、律师和合同，但在这个安排里，确实有一条说，你们的孩子可以见宝宝、和宝宝相处。
Well, I don't know if this is across the board with every agency, but and every, you know, lawyer and contract.
我实在没法想象，看着你孕育这个小生命，却从来不让孩子们见一面，不让他们看着宝宝被领养走。
But within this arrangement, there's actually a part that says that your children get to meet and spend time with the baby because it's I can't imagine them watching you grow this little human inside of you and then never having contact or seeing the baby go to the family.
对啊。
Right.
所以我特别期待这一幕。
So I am excited for that.
上次的代孕妈妈，我最难忘的回忆之一，就是看着孩子们第一次见到福特。
Like, with our last surrogate, that was one of my favorite memories was just seeing the kids meet Ford.
而且说真的，他们跟福特相处的时间，比我们还长。
And it's like, they've been living with Ford longer than we
是啊。
have.
没错。
Right.
所以这事儿真的特别棒。
So it was very it's very cool.
我喜欢这一点，这正是我们做这件事的意义所在。
And I like that that is part of the part of what we do.
我也是。
Me too.
你在匹配家庭的时候，有没有什么硬性要求？比如必须怎么样，或者不能怎么样？
Were there any when you were matching with a family, were there any things that were, like, I they have to fall under this category or they can't be x y or z?
有什么限制条件吗？
Any stipulations?
说实话啊。
I'll be honest here.
我一开始最担心的就是家人怎么想，这对我来说一直是个难题，我想对很多代孕妈妈来说也是这样。
I think one of my biggest fears going into it was just my family and what they would think, which has been a tricky aspect for me and I think is unfortunately a tricky aspect for a lot of surrogates.
我记得去面谈的时候就想：我愿意为同性伴侣、两个爸爸代孕，但家人光是知道我做代孕这件事，怕是都要炸了。
And so I remember going into my consult being like, I would carry for a gay couple for two dads, but my family is going to have a fit over me doing surrogacy in general.
所以也许得有个妈妈参与进来，但就连现在，我都觉得，代孕妈妈们居然真会这么想，实在太让人心酸了。
And so maybe let's have a mom involved, which I'm like, even now, I'm like, that's just so it's so sad that surrogates do feel that way.
如果有人只愿意匹配异性伴侣家庭，那往往是因为家里施加的压力。
That if I talk to anyone that's hetero only and they're matching, that gets because of the pressures from their family.
这确实挺难的。
So that's hard.
这情况我本人也经历过。
And that was definitely my case.
当然啦，我现在特别庆幸。
Of course, I'm so glad.
要不是这样，我也不会遇到你，咱们这搭配简直完美。
I mean, it led me to you, and this has been the perfect match.
但当时我真担心，要是不选同性家庭，事儿会更麻烦。
But that was definitely the one thing where I was like, it's gonna be trickier if I don't.
这个角度我以前压根没想到，太有意思了。
That's a very interesting perspective that I didn't even consider.
在我心里，我觉得这个人既然愿意参与这个经历，那肯定没问题。
Because in my mind, I'm like, oh, this this person is up for this experience.
我压根儿没想过家人这回事。
I I didn't even consider family.
当然，想当代孕妈妈，你老公或伴侣得同意，但其实整个家族、亲戚朋友都得支持才行。
Obviously, to become a surrogate, your husband or your partner has to be But, really on yeah, it's like family, extended family, friends.
是的。
Yeah.
别人对你做这件事有什么看法或质疑吗？
What is the criticism or the justification of the judgment of you doing this?
天哪。
My gosh.
各种评论多到离谱。
It's been so widespread.
全是些乱七八糟的指责。
Like, so many comments that just adopt.
为什么他们就不能直接领养呢？
Why couldn't why can't they just adopt?
就是整个这个论点。
You know, that whole argument.
代孕只有那些付得起钱的人才能享受。
Surrogacy is only available to people who, you know, can afford it.
所以你这么做，根本就是不公平的。我听过这种说法，说你身边全是附和你的人，你做这事觉得安心，是因为朋友都这么干了，是因为你在Elevate工作——其实我决定做这事的时候还没在Elevate，但我跟Elevate的人是朋友。
So it's just unfair that you're doing I've heard that, like, you surround yourself with yes people and you feel comfortable doing this because your friends have done it, because your job you know, I wasn't working for Elevate when I decided to do this, but I was friends with with people, you know, at Elevate.
你就是被别人说动了才这么做的。
Like, you're only doing this because people are convincing you to do this.
我那保守的基督教家庭就觉得，这根本不对。
Like, from my conservative Christian family, this is just not right.
就是这种评论。
Like, those comments.
根本不对。
Just not right.
就是不对。
Just not right.
根本就不是那么回事。
It's just not.
你还会问：‘你能解释一下吗？’
And you're like, oh, can you explain?
就是说啊，
Like,
他们做不到。
they can't.
不行。
Nope.
感谢我们的冠名赞助商BetterHelp。
Thank you to our presenting sponsor BetterHelp.
你知道的，我特别支持心理咨询。
You know that I am a big advocate for talk therapy.
它彻底改变了我的生活，尤其是当了妈妈之后，变化更大了。
It has changed my life in so many ways and even more so since becoming a mother.
咱们每个人都在忙得团团转。
We're all juggling so much.
有个地方能好好聊聊，真的特别棒。
It is great to have an outlet to talk things through.
我特别喜欢BetterHelp的一点，就是他们的咨询师质量很高。
What I love so much about BetterHelp is that they have quality therapists.
这些咨询师都严格遵守职业准则，而且在美国都有正式执照。
Their therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in The US.
BetterHelp会先帮你匹配合适的咨询师，你只管专心处理自己的心理需求就行。
BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals.
填个简短问卷，他们就能根据你的需求和偏好来匹配，加上他们十二年多的经验和行业顶尖的匹配成功率，第一次基本就能对上号。
A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences, and their twelve plus years of experience at industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time.
但如果觉得不合适，随时都能换，他们的客服会帮你安排新的咨询师。
But if you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored reps.
BetterHelp 拥有三万多名心理咨询师，是全球最大的在线心理服务平台，已服务超过六百万用户，基于一百七十多万条客户评价，其实时咨询平均评分高达4.9分（满分5分）。
With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6,000,000 people globally, and it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of five for a live session based on over 1,700,000 client reviews.
现在注册，访问 betterhelp.com/babygang，立享九折优惠。
Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/babygang.
记得是 betterhelp.com/babygang。
That's better,help,.com/babygang.
如果你像我一样，脑子早就被待办事项、跑腿、生日、晚餐计划塞满了，那就让 Skylight 日历帮你搞定剩下的吧。
If your brain is already at full capacity like mine is with to dos, errands, birthdays, and dinner plans, let Skylight Calendar handle the rest.
它能把全家的日程同步到一个简洁的数字屏上，让你能腾出时间，多陪陪家人。
It syncs your entire family schedule into a sleek digital display so you could focus on more important things like spending time with your loved ones.
这简直是革命性的改变。
This is a game changer.
它彻底改变了我们家的运作方式。
This has changed the way our family operates.
现在，我一提‘嘿，有个事儿’，Zach 再也不会一脸懵了。
No longer does Zach look at me like a deer in headlights when I mention something like, hey.
明天是睡衣日，因为这事早就安排在咱们厨房里的那个超酷的数字日程表上了。
Tomorrow's pajama day because it's been living on the schedule, the digital sleek design schedule in our kitchen.
我太喜欢了，Skylight日历的设计就是为了让更多家庭有时间待在一起。
I love it so much that Skylight calendar is designed to bring families together for more time.
这个一站式智能日历能无缝同步Google、Apple、Outlook这些日历，每天、每周、每月的安排都能自定义。
This all in one digital smart calendar syncs seamlessly with Google Calendar, Apple Calendar, Outlook, and more, giving you customizable views for daily, weekly, or monthly planning.
任务功能帮孩子养成好习惯，学会独立。
The tasks feature helps your kids build healthy routines and independence.
刷牙、写作业、做家务都变得有趣又有成就感。
Brushing teeth, homework, and chores become fun and rewarding.
我真的超爱这个。
I love it.
我都不知道该怎么形容我有多爱它了。
I can't tell you how much I love it.
一家人齐心协力，日子才更美。
Families are better when they're working together.
现在，Skylight 正在为我们的听众提供 30 美元优惠，只要去 myskylight.com/babygang 就能省下这笔钱，买 15 英寸的智能日历。
Right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15 inch calendars by going to myskylight.com/babygang.
去 myskylight.com/babygang，你的 15 英寸日历立减 30 美元。
Go to myskylight.com/babygang for $30 off your 15 inch calendar.
网址是 myskylight.com/babygang。
That's miskylight.com/babygame.
说实话，当初我们开始做试管婴儿的时候，就有人问：为什么不直接领养呢？
Well, I will say that even when we started to go through the IVF process, obviously, there's criticism of why not adopt.
还有人说，你们这是在扮演上帝。
And there's a lot of like, why are you playing God?
好像只要你们命中注定能有孩子，那自然就会怀上似的。
If you're meant to be able to have a baby, you know, then then it would happen.
那照这逻辑，要是有人确诊癌症，你是不是也得说：别用现代医学了，这是老天爷的意思，你得认命？
It's like, okay, well then if you get diagnosed with cancer, then I'm gonna say to you, you can't use modern medicine and you're gonna have to just, God wanted you to have this.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Right.
挺搞笑的，我们老是挑三拣四，说啥医学和科学能用、啥不能用。
It's really funny how we qualify, like, what can be used in medicine and science and, like, what can't Right.
这可是我最认同的观点。
So that's my favorite.
我知道每个人都有自己的看法，但我总爱问一句：在这种情况下，谁真的受到了伤害？
You know, I understand understand everybody's gonna have their feelings about it, but I also am I always ask the question before making any judgment, like, who's being harmed in this situation?
最让人担心的当然是代孕妈妈，毕竟她是真正在身体上承受这一切。
And I think the number one concern is obviously for the surrogate because you are physically putting yourself through this.
当然。
Sure.
整个过程都有风险，而你就是那个亲身扛下一切的人。
And there are risks to this entire process, and you're the one, you know, at the helm of it.
《使女的故事》这个比喻老被人拿出来比。
And the Handmaid's Tale comparison gets compare gets brought up a lot
就一个。
with one.
对。
Yeah.
就连我，我也明白你在拿我跟谁比。
Even even with me where I'm like, you understand what you're comparing me to.
对吧？
Right?
就是那个逼迫另一个女人的女人。
Like, the woman who's forcing one another woman.
这事儿真让我觉得不可思议。
It's so wild to me.
确实太离谱了。
It's wild.
我替你说吧，你也知道，那时候感觉特别对，就是因为我们都一样想要这件事。
And I I will speak for you and you you know, it felt like and the reason that this felt so right was because it felt like we both wanted this as much as the other.
我的意思是，这 obviously 是我的孩子，我特别希望这事能成，但当时我觉得你和我一样投入，盼着它成功。
I mean, obviously, this is something like, you know, it's my child and I'm desperate for it to work out, but it felt like you were as invested in this happening.
对。
Yeah.
我们一起经历了一次移植失败。
And we had a failed transfer together.
是啊。
Did.
对。
Yeah.
我想知道，从你的角度，你当时心里到底是怎么想的？
And I wanna know, you know, from your perspective, what you were going through.
然后我想说说，那种经历流产却没真正身体受苦的感觉，有多奇怪。
And and then I'm gonna, like, kinda talk about, like, what how strange that was to be experiencing it, the miscarriage, but not physically having the miscarriage.
还有，我当时特别为你担心，因为我不想让你觉得难过，觉得这事没成是因为你……
And also, I felt so much anxiety for you because I didn't want you to feel badly that it didn't
工作的事。
work.
没错。
Right.
是啊。
Yeah.
我知道你对自己要求特别严。
Because I know you were hard on yourself.
是啊。
I was.
那段时间真挺难的。
That was tricky.
我现在回过头看，当初真是天真了，对这方面一无所知。
I think, you know, I went into the process, I realize now fairly naive to to that aspect.
我当时对移植成功率这些数据倒是挺了解的。
You know, I was, like, well informed as far as the transfer success rates.
这能成吗，还是不成？
Will it work or not?
早就准备好面对这个了。
Know, ready for that.
后来真的成功了，早早验出怀孕，一切都很顺利，我就觉得，哎，我该做的都做了，大家也都帮上了忙，现在总算有结果了。
And then once that did work and it was fast positive pregnancy tests and everything was good, it's like I just, you know, I felt like I I did x and everybody did their part and now it's working.
但我根本没想过，万一流产了怎么办。
And I just didn't think about the reality of like, of a miscarriage.
我也不知道为啥，压根就没往那方面想。
I don't know why it did not cross my mind.
后来感觉吧，对你来说可能不一样，但对我来说，简直一团乱。
And then even it felt like, I don't know for you, but it felt like kind of a mess.
看诊安排乱七八糟，还做了个错误的B超，给了我们虚假的希望，接着又来了一次更错的B超。
The appointments felt like kind of jumbly, and we had, like, the wrong kind of ultrasound that gave us false hope, and we had, like, a second wrong kind of ultrasound.
我当时就想，应该没啥事吧。
I was like, it's probably fine.
所以整个过程拖得有点久。
So it was drug out a bit.
对。
Mhmm.
当医生最终确认的时候，那天真的特别难过。
And then, I mean, that was a hard sad day when they confirmed it.
我们终于去了你那位直来直去的医生那儿，俩人一起打电话问清楚。
We finally went to your doctor, like someone who would say, shoot us straight and then got on the phone together.
那一刻，好像全世界都静止了。
And it was just like everything stopped, you know.
我们之前可是规划了那么多事。
Like we had all these plans.
之前好长时间，我们一直在一步步做准备，可突然之间，所有计划都没了，没人知道接下来该咋办，也不知道怎么才能了结这事。
We were checking all these boxes for a long time leading up to that point, and then there was just no plan and no schedule, and we didn't know when it how it would resolve, what the right choice was to get it to resolve.
后来，我确实有那么一点怪自己。
And then, yeah, I did blame myself a bit.
我就觉得，这明明是个正常的胚胎啊，怎么会这样？
Like, it's like I didn't you know, surely, like, this is a normal embryo.
移植是成功的。
It was a positive transfer.
所有步骤都按计划进行了。
Everything worked.
那到底哪里出问题了？
So, like, what happened?
我的身体明明该完成它该做的事，可它没有。
You know, my body didn't do what it was supposed to do.
是啊。
Yeah.
我经历过那么多流产、波折和并发症，这次感觉就像老样子了。
I think that my experience having been through so many, know, lost pregnancies and speed bumps and all the complications, I felt like this is par for the course.
说来奇怪，我们其实早有心理准备，因为这种心碎对我们来说太熟悉了。
And I think that our heartbreak was kind of anticipated in a weird way because we're just used to getting that.
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我知道从能量上讲，这样进去可能不是最好的方式，但我觉得这是一种自我保护。
And I know that that's, like, energetically probably not the best way to go into it, but it's protective, I think.
对。
Yep.
对。
Yep.
幸运的是，我们还有其他胚胎，健康的胚胎在等着。
And so we were lucky enough to have other embryos waiting, other healthy embryos waiting.
虽然很伤心，真的特别伤心。
And while it was sad, it was very sad.
我只是想让你知道，这种事其实几乎再正常不过了。
It was something that I just wanted to, like, let you know that this is the norm almost.
当然。
Sure.
而且我从来没想过这事儿会跟你有什么关系。
And it was so nothing that I ever even thought had anything to do with you.
这些胚胎都经过了检测。
These embryos are, quote, tested.
但其实能查的项目特别少，我最近才意识到。
But only for so few things that I'm finding out.
它们能被移植进去，也能着床。
And they can go in, they can do the transfer, they can stick.
但如果胚胎本身不够健康——说实话，我之前的胚胎情况并不理想。
But if that embryo is not super healthy, which my history is not amazing with these embryos.
所以这种事情真的挺常见的。
So it a lot this happens a lot.
就算你有完美的环境，现在你也知道了。
And even if you have, like, the perfect environment and that now you know that.
是的。
Yep.
我只是想让你知道，我们一点都没失望，也没觉得遗憾。
But I wanted you to, like, not have any like, we were a little let down or disappointed in any way.
当然。
Sure.
因为我觉得
Because I
我内心其实特别笃定，觉得最后一定能成，可能就是因为福特在这儿吧。
also had this crazy faith that it was gonna work out ultimately, probably because Ford's here.
没错。
And Yeah.
要让他来到这个世界，真得靠一连串小小的奇迹才行。
It had to take a lot of little baby miracles for him to be here.
我想着，咱们以前不就成功过一次吗？
And I'm like, well, we did it before.
那这次也一定能行。
We'll do it again.
但这次之后，我们就彻底不做了。
But after this one, we're done.
对。
Yes.
我记得我们最后那次谈话，你当时根本就是说：不行。
I do remember that conversation we finally you know, we had where it was like, you basically were like, no.
这事肯定能成。
It's just going to work.
这事儿没完没了。
There's no end to the process.
就是会成的，别想那么多。
It's just we don't it's just going to work.
因为我当时心里想，好吧。
Because I think I got in my head of like, okay.
我要搞第二个了。
I'm doing a second one.
但说实话，我对第二个项目真提不起劲儿，也高兴不起来。
I had a hard time feeling positive or excited or anything about the second one.
我当时就想，除非屏幕上真看到胎心，不然我根本不信。
I was just like, I'm not believing this until I see a heartbeat on a screen.
我压根儿就不敢去想这事。
I'm not even gonna think about it.
然后我脑子里就冒出来一句：行吧。
And I just then my head would go like, okay.
第三次移植后，他们又找了个新方案。
Then a third transfer, then after a third would like they just find a new cert.
这到底算怎么回事啊？
Like, what is the you know?
你就直接说：不行。
And you were just like, no.
反正就是能成，事儿就这么定了。
It's just it's just going to work, and then that's the end of it.
我就说：对。
I'm like, yeah.
好吧。
Okay.
只要你愿意，我们就继续下去。
As long as you're willing as long as you're willing, we we're gonna continue this.
而且说实话，特别有意思的是，我很喜欢你总提醒我，你肚子里这小家伙有多顽强。
And, yeah, I just the thing that's so funny and, like, I love that you keep reminding me of how resilient this little baby is inside of you.
她太棒了。
She's the best.
她超厉害的。
She's awesome.
她超厉害的。
She's awesome.
我觉得特别可爱，这其实就是她性格的一部分。
And it's so cute to me that, like, this is part of who she is.
她做得太完美了，她就是完美本身。
Like, she is really doing her perfect she's she's perfect.
她啊
She
有一天我要给她写封信，好好谢谢她。
like, I'll write her a letter one day and thank her.
她就是……我真的觉得，这简直是一种特别的联结，太神奇了。
She she just I it is some it is like a special connection of like, wow.
你已经去过那么多地方了，真够坚强的。
You have just been a lot of places, and you are so tough,
都环球旅行过了。
traveled the world already.
太棒了。
Awesome.
她去过圣地亚哥。
She's been in San Diego.
她还去过亚特兰大。
She's been in Atlanta.
是的
Yeah.
她确实
She's yeah.
就像
Like
我们得开始相信她
We had to start believing in her.
我得相信她，而不是相信我自己
I had to start believing in her and not in me.
你知道，她是真心想留在这儿的
Like, you know, she wants to be here.
我真的这么觉得
I really believe that.
我一直都相信你们俩
I believed in both of you.
你们俩特别般配，现在都十八周了。
You guys are a good match, and you're eighteen weeks.
对吧？
Right?
是啊。
Yeah.
是今天还是
Today or
昨天。
yesterday.
昨天。
Yesterday.
对。
Yes.
真有意思。
It's so funny.
我手机上的App会告诉我现在该期待什么，比如宝宝现在有多大了？
I have what to expect on my the app, like, on my phone because I'm like, how big is the baby now?
因为宝宝还没在我肚子里看得见嘛。
Because it's not inside of me.
说得对。
So true.
而且
And
再过几周我们就去做大排畸检查了。
in a couple weeks, we have the anatomy scan.
说实话，我觉得那才是下一步，我知道有些事我还没敢说出口。
And, you know, I think that that's honestly the next and I know that things like, you know, I I not even putting it out there.
但对我来说，等检查确认她一切正常、是个小超人的时候，我才能真正安心。
But to me, when we do that and we know that this she's perfect, she's a rock star.
那时候我才能去收拾婴儿床，做所有准备，也才能告诉福特。
Getting that confirmation is gonna actually allow me to put together the crib, to do all the things in anticipation, to tell Ford.
是的
Yeah.
你懂的？
You know?
我真的特别期待能有这种体验。
I I feel like really excited to have that experience.
我不知道你对这种里程碑是不是也有同样的感觉？
And I don't know if you feel any differently about like that, like, that milestone.
对
Yeah.
没错
Yeah.
我简直等不及了。
I I can't wait for that.
我觉得对这件事特别乐观。
I mean, I feel very positive going into it.
我们最近攒了好多好消息，都是一步一个脚印来的小进展
We've had like so many good news, little steps recently.
感觉整体势头特别好
It's felt like great momentum.
对
Yeah.
不过等那个预约敲定了，我可就真的松口气了
But that's gonna be a very relieving appointment.
一想到你终于能把宝宝接回家，家里的氛围都会因为这个新生命变得不一样了，这种感觉太奇妙了。
Like, to know that you're getting to like like you're bringing a baby home, like your home is gonna start to feel like you're bringing a baby home.
你完全可以放宽心，踏实迎接这一切。
You can feel confident in it.
你也能大方跟别人分享这份喜悦。我之前自然受孕生娃的时候就有这种感觉，那时候完全不会像现在做试管婴儿这么多顾虑。
You can tell people like, I remember that with my own kids that were not IVF, you know, where like it wasn't as concerning.
对
Yeah.
太不可思议了。
It's crazy.
那你一不怀孕了打算干嘛？
So what are you gonna do the moment you're not pregnant?
天哪。
Oh my gosh.
好多事呢。
So many things.
别闹了。
No.
喝鸡尾酒？
Cocktails?
喝鸡尾酒。
Cocktails.
这事儿太搞笑了。
It's so funny.
就是你待在医院里那会儿。
One with you in the hospital.
是的。
Yeah.
我们肯定会的。
We're gonna yes.
所以我才说，等等。
That is why I'm like, wait.
大家都操心着要不要把孩子抢走，
Everybody is so concerned with do I wanna, like, kidnap the child?
但我根本不是这么想的。
And I'm like, no.
完全不是。
Like, no.
对。
Yeah.
我还没到怀孕的那会儿，就是特别盼着孩子赶紧出来那种感觉。
I don't I haven't gotten to the part of pregnancy that's like, well, I can't wait till she's out, you know?
对。
Yeah.
我总觉得她就像个小小的、弱弱的小家伙。
I feel like I a, I feel like she's a tiny little thing.
是的。
Yeah.
那挺好的。
Well, that's nice.
我可不是这样。
Mine were not.
我可不是这样。
Mine were not.
不是。
No.
但我觉得，嗯，生完之后的事儿，我真说不好。
But I think, yeah, afterwards just I don't know.
我真的不知道。
I don't know.
我还没到那一步呢。
I haven't gotten there.
也许养孩子这事，还挺值得期待的。
Maybe something to look forward to with the kids.
我觉得还有一件事特别重要，就是得明白，产后这段日子你照样得熬过去。
I think that's another thing worth mentioning of how important it is to, like, understand that you still have to go through the postpartum period.
你想想，作为一位神志清醒、不想留下孩子的代孕妈妈，你的激素照样乱七八糟。
You know, as a surrogate who is of sound mind and does not want to keep the child, your hormones still are weird.
你懂的吧？
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
我通过学习、听别人讲，也跟其他代孕妈妈聊过。
And I have learned and been told and talked surrogates.
关键是得多花点时间陪孩子、陪家人，找点盼头，帮自己慢慢回归正常生活，毕竟这事儿就像一份工作结束了。
To It's like, it's just important to spend time with your kids and your family and have something to look forward to to help, like, get back to normal because it's like a job is ending.
你懂的。
You know?
你毕竟干了这么一档子大事。
Like, you're you've did this thing.
你许下了承诺。
You made a promise.
事情结束了，你得重新调整自己。
It's over, and you have to, like, recalibrate.
我觉得，虽然你并不因为没把孩子带回家而难过，但你是在告别这段经历。
Well, and I imagine, like, even though you're not grieving not having the baby to take home, you're grieving the experience.
这事儿哪有那么完美，但我想象不到，能亲自把一个生命养到足月，这得多特别啊。
Like, I think it's not all rainbows and sunshine, but I would imagine, like, I've never had the ability to grow a life to term, and that's a pretty exceptional job.
所以啊，做完这么一件大事，把一生中最珍贵的礼物送给一个家庭，这种意义和成就感，很可能也会带来一点失落感。
And so, yeah, there's probably a little bit of grief after doing this, like, monumental task and, like, giving the gift of a lifetime to a family, like, the meaning and the purpose of that
是的。
Mhmm.
对。
Mhmm.
很多代孕妈妈之所以愿意一再继续，正是因为她们享受这个过程。
Is probably something a lot of surrogates keep going and doing it again because it's something that they enjoy about it.
没错。
Yeah.
你还会再做一次吗？
Would you do this again?
这个嘛，我也不确定。
That is like that I don't know.
我觉得这次就像碰上了千载难逢的缘分，整个经历特别美好。
I think my fear like, this is like a unicorn match, and it's been so fun.
我也不太确定该怎么说。
And I don't know what if it I don't know.
要是有个朋友的话，也许吧。
If you had a friend, maybe.
明白了。
Okay.
得弄几封推荐信。
Need some rec letters.
如果你曾经因为减不掉体重而感到挫败，那你不是一个人在战斗。
If you've ever felt stuck trying to lose weight, you are not alone.
试试HERS的减重方案。
Enter weight loss by HERS.
它专为帮你达成目标而设计，HERS现在还提供价格亲民的FDA批准GLP-1药物，包括Wegovy口服片和Wegovy注射笔。
It's designed to support you in reaching your goals, and HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA approved GLP-one medications, including the Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen.
配合饮食和运动，使用HERS的Wegovy，最多可减掉20%以上的体重。
With Wegovy at HERS, lose up to 20% or more of your body weight when combined with diet and exercise.
它能帮你控制食欲，吃得少一点，还能稳住体重。
It helps you regulate your appetite, eat less, and keep weight off.
而且Wegovy是首款口服的GLP-1减肥药，完全不用打针。
Plus Wegovy is the first ever GLP-one pill for weight loss, so there's no needles needed.
所有流程都在线上通过HERS完成，不用跑医院。
Everything is 100% online through HERS.
你会对接到持证医生，他们会评估你是否适合这个治疗。
You'll connect with a licensed provider who will determine if treatment is right for you.
如果开药了，药直接送到你家，不用保险也行。
If prescribed, your medication is delivered right to your door, no insurance necessary.
这还没完呢。
And it doesn't stop there.
HERS的减肥计划不止给药，还提供24/7在线医护沟通，还有超多App里的生活和营养建议，比如食谱、饮食计划、健身视频、睡眠内容等等。
Weight Loss by HERS goes beyond medication by offering access to 20 fourseven messaging with your care team and tons of in app lifestyle and nutrition tips like recipes, meal plans, fitness videos, sleep content, and more.
你会拿到专属于你的治疗方案，剂量也能随时调整，不限次数。
You'll get a treatment plan personalized to you and unlimited dosage changes as needed.
这是为你生活量身打造的减重方案。
It's weight loss designed to work with your life.
准备好达成你的目标了吗？
Ready to reach your goals?
去 forhers.com/babygan，获取专属于你的、负担得起的贴心服务。
Visit forhers.com/babygan to get personalized affordable care that gets you.
就是 forhers.com/babygang，forhers.com/babygang。
That's forhers.com/babygang, forhers.com/babygang.
HERS 的减重服务目前并非在全美五十个州都可用。
Weight loss by HERS is not available in all 50 states.
Wegovy 是诺和诺德公司的注册商标。
Wegovy is the registered trademark of Novo Nordisk AS.
想开始了解更多信息？包括安全须知、Wegovy 的临床研究数据和使用限制，请访问 forhers.com。
To get started and learn more, including important safety information, Wegovy clinical study information and restrictions visit forhers.com.
首先，你身体上感觉怎么样？
First of all, how are you feeling physically?
我感觉挺好的。
I feel good.
天哪。
Gosh.
我都跟你说过多少遍了，这次怀孕是我最轻松的一次。
This has been my easiest pregnancy, I keep telling you.
我都想不明白，是不是老天爷特别眷顾咱们。
Like, I don't know if it's just the universe is being nice to us.
我也不懂。
I don't know.
但我以前怀那会儿，可没这么舒服。
But I was not this well with mine.
那咱们还是回到刚才那问题吧——你是不是真的特别享受怀孕的过程？
So back to the question of, like, did you just love being pregnant?
我本来以为会有什么特别不一样的感觉，结果我现在状态真的挺好。
I was expecting there to be something more, but I feel really good.
你懂的吧？
You know?
那些针？
Those shots?
黄体酮注射。
The progesterone shots.
我以后再也回不去了。
I'll never be the same.
我觉得吧。
I I don't think.
我不是早跟你说过吗？
I tried to warn you, didn't I?
你说过。
You did.
我不是说这玩意儿吗？
I said this is those?
这是最难受的环节了。
It's the worst part.
给那些没做过试管、不了解流程的朋友解释一下：我先是取了卵，把前期所有准备工作都做完了，取出卵子后和Zach的精子受精，之后就把胚胎冻起来了。
So for anyone who hasn't done IVF or isn't familiar, you know, I did the egg retrieval and I did the all the kind of the stuff in the front end to do to take the eggs out to fertilize them with Zach, and then they they hit the ice.
然后等要移植之前，
And then before
我之前从来没这么说过这件事哎。
I've never actually phrased it like that.
就是真的等不及要让我家里人知道这事了
Just, like, really can't wait for my family to hear this.
要是我们担心的话，我其实可以把这段删掉的
I could take that out if we're
（才不会）担心呢
worried about it.
那这段就得留着
So we need it then.
那我们就留着吧。
We need it then.
好的。
Okay.
然后她就被冷冻了。
So she hit the ice.
天哪。
God.
就是这一个。
This one.
就是那个……
The one that's The
在你体内的那个。
one inside of you.
她是个滑冰选手。
She's an ice skater.
所以提前准备的时候，我已经经历过一遍了，心里有数。
So then in preparation and I had gone through this, so I knew.
而且西耶拉也走过这一圈，所以我还知道她的体验。
And then also Sierra obviously went through this part of it, So I knew her feedback from it as well.
她说，整个过程下来，绝对、绝对是打黄体酮针最遭罪，就是在移植前五天，得天天打，你知道的，移植就是把胚胎放进去，那叫啥来着？
And she was like, this is by hands down, like through the whole entire process, hands down, these progesterone shots that you take, you prep like five days before the transfer where they, you know, the transfer is when they take the embryo and what's the term?
就是植入。
Like, implant it.
对，植入。
Implant it.
没错。
There we go.
是啊。
Yeah.
连续五天，你得用那种又粗又长的针给自己打针
So for five days, you're shooting yourself with the biggest, longest needle
你见过吗？
You've ever seen.
确实。
True.
见过。
Seen.
往屁股里打。
In your butt.
这事儿要连续五天，然后每天都要打，一直打到怀上第二孕期。
And that happens for five days leading up and then every single day until you hit the second trimester.
听上去简直像受刑。
It is saying it even sounds like torture.
你屁股上还留着包吗？
Do you still have a lump on your butt?
还留着呢。
I still do.
我还是有。
I still do.
我觉得可能一辈子都这样了。
I think forever, probably.
不会的。
No.
不会一辈子的。
It's not forever.
真的不会。
It's not.
我保证。
I promise.
我记得那时候荷尔蒙特别乱，那部分也特别让人发疯。
I remember being in my hormonal, which that's the other part, kind of like makes you crazy.
是的。
Yeah.
这真能让人发疯。
It makes you crazy.
荷尔蒙搞得人神神叨叨的。
The hormonal weirdness.
我记得我去找过我们团队的梅根，她以前是助孕护士，我就问她：‘你确定我真的能好起来吗？我会恢复吗？’
I remember going to Megan on my team who is a former fertility nurse, I was like, like, are you sure it will never like, will I recover from this?
我必须知道答案。
I need to know.
她说会的，但得花上很长一段时间。
She said yes, but it will take a very
很长，请。
long Please
冷静点。
chill.
求你了。
Please.
哦，这挺有意思的。
Oh, that's funny.
而且……
And
尼克，你老公，最近怎么样？
how is Nick, your husband?
我是说，他状态还好吗？
Like, how has he been?
他简直太棒了。
He's the best.
我的意思是，这才是关键。
He I mean, that's like the key part.
就像你说的，我一开始确实担心家人那边，但他从第一天起就一直说：你肯定能行。
Like you said, you know, I had my fears about my family in the beginning, but he's from day one been like, you can totally do this.
你真该去做。
Like, you should do it.
这绝对会是件超酷的事。
This is gonna be one of the coolest things.
他真的特别支持我。
Like, he's very supportive.
不过说真的，还挺搞笑的。
But it is funny.
我说他挺好，可他老想摸我肚子，我就说：别再这样了，一次都别再来了。
Like, I'm like, he's great, but then he he's like he'll like try to rub my belly and I'm like, don't do that, like, ever again.
哎呀。
Aw.
你跟他说，我很感激他的关心。
Tell him I appreciate the affection.
我当时就觉得，这事儿不太对劲。
I was like, that feels like not the right thing.
我也说不清楚。
I don't know.
就是完全不一样。
It just is so different.
真的太不一样了。
It's so different.
但他就是。
But he's
要是让你觉得不舒服，就别让他这样。
like if it makes you feel weird, don't let him.
挺可爱的。
It's so cute.
我知道她挺可爱，但拜托了。
I'm like, I know she is cute, but like, please.
给她点空间行不行？
Like, give some Give her some space.
或者你，反正你平时也给我点空间。
Or just me, you in general, some space.
这事儿只跟我和贝卡有关。
This is between me and Becca.
扎克根本插不上手。
Like, Zach barely has anything to do with this.
你更别掺和了。
And you definitely don't.
是的。
Yeah.
祝你们好运啊。
Good luck, guys.
确实如此。
It is.
其实吧，我特别高兴你提这个，因为我跟西耶拉也这么干过——西耶拉当时在德克萨斯的奥斯汀。
It's actually like this is I'm glad you said that because I did with Sierra as well because Sierra was in Austin in Texas.
我老陪她跑各种预约，说实话，到目前为止，我只和你当面见过一次。
And I was going to a lot of appointments with her, and I've been to I mean, I really have only been to the one with you in person so far.
我记得坐在那儿心想：我是当爹的。
And I remember sitting there being like, I'm the dad.
我就是当爹的。
I am the dad.
确实如此。
So true.
其实这让我想到一点，别往极端想啊，各位。
Actually, it gave me now don't take this too far, gentlemen.
这让我稍微理解了他们的感受——你们明明这么投入，可又完全插不上手。
It gave me, like, a teensy weensy morsel of empathy for them because you're so invested in what's happening, but you have absolutely zero to do with the progress of it.
是的。
Yeah.
你就这么干坐着，像个旁观者，可心里又全牵挂着这事。
And so you're sitting there almost like a spectator of something, but then you your whole heart is invested in this thing.
我连帮她都帮不上。
And I'm like, I can't even help her.
对啊。
Like Yeah.
你知道吗，就连做B超也不是啥舒服事儿。
You know, even just like the ultrasound, it's not the most comfortable thing in the world.
这时候你才明白，原来男人平时就是这种感觉。
And you're like, oh, this is what guys feel like.
他们还真想分担点咱们的苦。
They do wanna they do wanna take some of this from us.
没错。
Yeah.
就想让你分担点，可你啥也干不了，纯属摆设。
Like, carry a little bit of this, but there's nothing it's you're fucking useless.
是啊。
Yes.
真的。
Truly.
真的太对了。
It's so true.
你等着吧，我到时候生孩子的时候，老爸，我可要跟你好好算账，毕竟我亲眼看着西娅做剖腹产，那场面真是……
And get ready because I am gonna go so hard, dad, on delivery because that's another thing where I was, like, scrubbing in for Sierra's C section.
哎呀，老爸，你想想看。
Like, come on, dad.
不过说真的，我挺庆幸自己见证了三次分娩全过程。
And it's so wild to again, I am I am glad that I've been there for now three births.
我妹妹、我最好的朋友，还有当然，福特的宝宝。
So my sister, my best friend, and then obviously Ford.
我妹妹和我最好的朋友都是顺产。
My sister and my best friend had two vaginal deliver deliveries.
我妹妹那次是没打任何麻醉，我就在旁边全程看着。
My sister did one unmedicated that I watched.
我最好的朋友呢，打完无痛后一点感觉都没有，乐呵呵地就生了。
My best friend did, like, she could not feel a thing and was happy happy to be there.
然后就是剖腹产了。
And then the C section.
所以这位爸爸至少已经见识过了。
And so I at least this dad has experienced
这位爸爸已经准备好了。
this dad is ready.
这位爸爸已经准备好了。
This dad is ready.
我对什么都一点都不意外。
I know I'm not surprised by anything.
真没什么能让我震惊的了。
There's literally nothing that can shock me.
是的。
Yeah.
但确实如此。
I but it is.
你坐在那儿，我记得西耶拉生福特的时候，拼命使劲想顺产，可那小家伙就是死活不出来。
You're sitting there like I I remember when Sierra was, you know, trying pushing and trying to have Ford vaginally, and he that little bitch wouldn't drop.
就是不出来。
He would not drop.
他卡在那儿，高高地卡在那儿，一点都没往下掉。
And he was just sitting, like, pretty much like a little up so high.
我当时就想，天啊。
And I'm like, god.
我那时候就觉得，这孩子怎么这么让我失望。
And I'm like, so disappointed in my child already.
快点出来啊。
And I'm like, just drop.
赶紧出来啊。
Just drop.
不过话说回来
But anyways
这得是当爹才能懂的经历。
have to be the father experience.
确实如此。
It does.
对吧？
Right?
你这是在折磨你妈呢。
Like, you're torturing your mother.
你早就开始折磨你妈了。
You're already torturing your mother.
不过没错，这确实特像个当爹的干的事。
But, yes, it's such a it's such a dad thing.
再往深了说，有了新生儿，我才真觉得自己是个爹了。
And, like but even going further, it's like even having a newborn, like, am a dad.
我又不能母乳喂养。
I am not breastfeeding.
我没在从产后恢复。
I am not recovering from postpartum.
这点其实挺棒的，我和扎克在某种程度上经历了一样的事。
That is the really cool part about it too as Zach and I have equal experiences in a way.
对啊。
Mhmm.
我们俩都是爸爸。
We're both the dads.
我们俩？哦，两个爸爸。
We're two oh, two dads.
前几天有人跟我提了这事，还问我：真的假的？
Somebody brought that up to me the other day, and they're like Really?
这安排听起来还挺聪明的。
This is kind of feels like a really smart arrangement.
你怀胎、养胎、生孩子，然后把娃交给妈，自己就能歇着、睡觉，啥都不用操心。
Like, you carry the baby, grow the baby, birth the baby, then you hand her off to her mom, and then you go recover and you sleep and everything's great.
妈妈接手之后，她可没在身体上恢复。
And mom takes over and mom is not, you know, recovering physically.
这不就是实情吗？
Like, isn't that so true?
真该让更多人知道。
Like, more people should know.
这简直就是一场完美的接力赛。
It's a great relay race.
真的特别棒。
It's really good.
确实如此。
It really is.
这样安排挺合适的。
It works out.
每个人的能量都用在了刀刃上。
Like, everyone's energy is utilized appropriately.
我猜你带着两个孩子回家的时候，早就已经累得不行了。
I imagine when you came home with your two children, like, you're operating not at a 100 already.
对啊。
No.
每个人的经历都不一样，这很正常。
You are going through, and everybody's experience is different.
我不是说你不需要立刻进入状态，照顾刚来的宝宝。
And that's not to discount, like, you are taking this baby that you're, like, now have to, like, snap to.
你懂的吧？
You know?
我真没法想象怎么做到，毕竟怀孕的时候你本来就有时间慢慢准备。
I can't imagine doing that because I think there's, like, preparation that you get to do when you're pregnant with them.
而且荷尔蒙的变化可能也帮了忙。
And, like, the hormonal thing maybe helps that.
我也说不准。
I don't I don't know.
是的
Yeah.
不过呢
But yeah.
不是的
No.
我回家的时候就像个幽灵一样
I was like a ghost going home.
感觉像个僵尸，既要照顾自己又要照顾
Like, you feel like a zombie trying to take care of
对
Yeah.
照顾自己和宝宝，还有
Yourself and the baby and like
还有你的孩子
And then your kids.
是的。
Yes.
压力真的很大。
It's a lot.
还有你老公呢。
And then your husband.
和索恩在一起的时候，感觉怎么样？
How did that feel with Thorne?
我的意思是，那种感觉到底是什么样的？
Like, did what does it feel like?
就是，你是不是就只是觉得……
Does it just you just like
我也不太说得清，但那感觉特别不真实，我就想，当第一回当爸妈，大概谁都会觉得不真实吧。
I I don't you know, I it was surreal, but I thought, well, it must be surreal every time for a first time parent.
但我心里真的特别感恩。
But I did feel a lot of gratitude.
我根本停不下来，一直想着自己有多幸运，终于能好好休息了。
I could not stop thinking about how grateful I was to have been rested Yeah.
身体状态算是挺好的，没被荷尔蒙折腾，也没被那些乱七八糟的事压垮。
Physically at my best ish, not dealing with crashing hormones, not dealing with, you know, a lot of that.
我看过我妹妹产后的样子，还有我最好的朋友产后的情况，其中一个还严重到产后抑郁。
Because I I watched my sister postpartum, my best friend postpartum, and one of them really struggled with postpartum depression as well.
我真是感激得不得了。
And I I just felt insanely grateful.
那种感恩，简直没法用言语形容。
Like, the gratitude was beyond.
前几周的事，我现在完全想不起来了。
I've also still blacked out the first couple weeks.
虽然我没记住，但那段日子真的像断片了一样。
Like, even though I didn't carry remember.
对。
Yeah.
还是特别累。
It's still exhausting.
也不是说，醒来的那个人是你啊。
It's not like I mean, you're the one waking up.
对啊。
So yeah.
是啊。
It's Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
我真想赶紧把她交出去，太开心了。
I, like, am so happy to hand her over.
我们能不能，我就是觉得——
Can we just I'm
真的太高兴了。
so glad.
重点强调这一点。
Emphasize that.
所以你们这些听的人，是不是也在好奇我是不是也这样？
So all of you listening for other wondering if I'm Curious.
盼着赶紧把她接回家。
Hoping to take her home.
对。
Yeah.
西耶拉也是这样。
Sierra was the same.
她就说：我简直太想把这个小祖宗送走了。
She was like, I am so happy to evict this baby.
毕竟在正常分娩的最后阶段——什么叫正常啊，反正我没见过哪个女人会说：真想让孩子一直待在肚子里不出来了。
Because also at the end of normal pregnancies, quote normal, I don't know a woman who's ever been like, I wanna keep them in here forever and ever and ever.
最后那几周，大家都只想：快点把孩子生出来吧。
Like, the last couple weeks, they're like, get this baby out
关于我。
of me.
所以我觉得，在我们这种情况下，能有这样一个美好的礼物真的很棒——你本来就急着要把这孩子赶出去了，对吧？
And so I think it's a actually a beautiful gift that we're given in our situation where you're already gonna be ready to kick this baby out Yep.
离开她那温暖的小窝。
Of its cozy home.
所以根本不会有什么想把怀孕的日子再要回来的念想。
And so there won't be any yearning for the return of a pregnancy.
不会。
No.
一点都不会。
Not at all.
我简直等不及了。
That's I can't my wait.
没错。
That's yes.
我觉得这话没错。
I think that's true.
我希望我不会像那样——咱们走着瞧吧。
I'm hopeful that I'm not like we'll see.
我就希望她别想永远赖着不走。
I just hope she doesn't wanna stay in forever.
拜托了。
Please.
当然不。
No.
我们铁了心要赶她走。
We're kicking her out.
我们这就让她
We're getting her
搬出去。
out of there.
她必须走。
She's gotta go.
你啥时候说，咱啥时候办。
Whenever you say when.
你一开口，我们就有办法。
You say it and we'll find a way.
你知道吗？
You know what?
我们总有办法。
We'll find a way.
到某个时候，就得你亲自下决心了，然后她就得搬出去。
At a certain point, it's gonna be all on you to pull the rip cord and then she's coming out.
到时候我们就说：抱歉。
We're gonna be like, sorry.
你住得太久了吧。
You overstayed your welcome.
你得走了。
You gotta go.
但我们希望她能一直保持完美，稳稳地走下去，做个顶尖学生——所以只要你准备好了，只要一想，羊水就会
But we're hoping she's gonna remain perfect and really just stay the course and really a plus student, which means the moment you're ready, like, you can just think it, and then your water will
破了。
break.
对啊。
Yeah.
我觉得到时候我会直接跟她远程沟通。
So it'll be like I'll just be like, telecommunicating with her, I think.
我就是这么想象的。
That's what I've imagined.
你该试试。
You should try.
我会的。
I'm going to.
我觉得她其实挺喜欢这种事的。
I think she's into that thing, actually.
她确实很有灵性。
She's definitely spiritual.
她啊。
She
没错。
is.
我真的很感激。
Well, I'm very grateful.
现在说这个词儿听起来可能有点轻率，但你以后会听到无数遍，直到你听烦了，到时候我一定停。
That seems like the most flippant terminology at this point and the way to say it, but and you'll hear it a million more times till you're uncomfortable with it, and I'm gonna try to stop when you become uncomfortable.
我特别感谢你走进我们的生活，为这个小女孩打造了这么温暖、美好、健康又幸福的家。
But I am very grateful you were put in our lives and that you have created the most cozy, beautiful, healthy, happy home for this little girl.
你说你要给她写信，这真让我感动得不行，对不起啊。
And you said you're gonna write her a letter, and that just really made me emotional because sorry.
她
She
我觉得这是我这辈子能做的最棒的事之一，我真的从不觉得这是理所当然的。
This is, I think, the best one of best things I'll ever get to do in my life and I, like, don't take that for granted.
我是认真的。
I mean that.
我也觉得自己特别幸运，而且我简直等不及了。
It's I feel very lucky too and I cannot wait.
我老在想象你们俩见面的场景，我真的等不及了。
I keep envisioning, like, the two of you meeting, and I just can't wait.
这一定会是最快乐的一天。
It's gonna be the best day.
一定会很棒的。
It's gonna be great.
她会是个特别幸运的小姑娘。
She's gonna be she's gonna be a lucky little girl.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我保证我会
And I promise I
我不会一直这样哭个没完的。
won't cry like this all the time.
你尽管哭吧。
You can.
没关系的。
It's okay.
行吧。
Alright.
谢谢你做这些。
Well, thank you for doing this.
我真的非常非常非常感激，咱们很快见。
I appreciate it so, so, so much, and I'll see you soon.
那一会儿见。
See you soon.
好。
Okay.
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