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感谢我们的冠名赞助商BetterHelp。
Thank you to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp.
妈妈们承担着很多压力，接受心理咨询也是一种很好的自我支持方式。
Moms carry a lot, and therapy can be a great way to give yourself a little support too.
本节目由BetterHelp赞助播出。
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
请前往 betterhelp.com/babygang 注册，可享受10%优惠。
Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/babygang.
网址是 betterhelp.com/babygang。
That's better,help,.com/babygang.
你好。
Hello.
你好。
Hello.
你好。
Hello.
欢迎来到宝宝帮。
And welcome to the baby gang.
我是你们的主持人贝卡·托宾，非常感谢我们的冠名赞助商BetterHelp。
I am your host, Becca Tobin, and thank you so much to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp.
今天这一期内容特别精彩。
We have a very exciting episode today.
不过在开始之前，我喜欢跟大家聊聊我最近的生活近况。
But before we get into it, you know, I like to give little updates on my life.
我带福特去打疫苗了。
I took Ford to get some shots.
他现在四岁了，得做四岁体检，还要打两针疫苗。
He's four years old, so he had to go for his four year checkup, and then he had to get his two vaccines.
我特别紧张，因为他自从两岁以后就没打过任何疫苗。
And I was really anxious about it because he hadn't had anything since he was two.
他两岁那会儿，还不太懂事。
And when he was two, he wasn't very aware.
你懂的。
You know?
说实话，我觉得护士就是在他大腿上扎了一针，他根本没感觉到，注意力又被别的东西吸引住了，所以我们根本没怎么多说。
I think we, like honestly, I think she just jabbed him in the thigh, and he didn't feel it, and he was distracted, and we didn't really have to have a conversation about it.
但这次不一样。
But this was different.
我不想这样对他。
I didn't wanna do that to him.
我直觉告诉我，但这次直觉错了。
My gut was telling me, and my gut was wrong this time.
我直觉说，别提前一晚告诉他。
My gut was telling me, don't tell him the night before.
别提前跟他提，不然他从那天起就会一直紧张。
Don't tell him leading up to it because then he's gonna have anxiety leading up to it just on the day of.
就直接跟他说要去打针，然后到现场再突然告诉他，这样他没时间胡思乱想，也不会太紧张。
Tell him you're going, and then maybe spring him on him in the moment so that he doesn't have time to, like, think about it and and get too worked up about it.
但我跟朋友在网上做了一些研究，发现这么做其实并不妥。
But I did a little research with my friends on the Internet, and it turns out that's not the best thing to do.
这次我听了专家的意见，也许那正是我直觉在提醒我。
And I listened to the experts for once, and maybe that was my gut.
也许我的直觉是在说：你以为这就是全部了，但其实它在让你再深入一点，多看看。
Maybe my gut was saying, you think this is it, but your gut is telling you to look further, dig deeper.
我记得医生贝基的‘Good Inside’应用里有个内容，我特别喜欢。
I think there was something on doctor Becky's Good Inside app that I absolutely love.
你只要搜一个主题，它通常都会给出相关建议。
You, like, search a topic and it usually comes up with something.
里面明确提到：要提前让他做好心理准备。
And it was a resounding prepare him for what's coming.
我就想起快上学的时候，朋友杰米跟我说过一集《丹尼尔老虎》的动画，讲的是大人离开后会回来的事。
So I remembered when we were about to start school, and my friend Jamie told me there's this really wonderful Daniel Tiger episode about grown ups come back.
每一集他们都会编一首歌。
And, you know, they make up a song for every episode.
整个故事都围绕着丹尼尔老虎展开。
It's all about Daniel Tiger.
他要找保姆了，爸妈告诉他别担心。
He's he's getting a babysitter, and his parents are telling him, you know, don't worry.
大人一定会回来的。
Grown ups come back.
我就用这招来应对上学的事。
So I did that for school.
效果好得不得了。
It worked like a charm.
后来我想，他们肯定也有看医生打针的那集。
And then I thought, I bet you they have something for seeing the doctor and getting a a shot.
果然，他们真有。
Sure enough, they have it.
丹尼尔老虎，太聪明了。
Daniel Tiger, genius.
如果你在这世上有什么事让你觉得需要帮忙，那就这么做准没错。
If there's anything that you're thinking in this world, in this realm, that you're needing some help with, this is the thing to do.
我还记得福特得滴眼药水，不是说丹尼尔老虎会滴眼药水，但我去YouTube搜了个四岁小男孩滴眼药水的视频。
I remember also Ford had to get some eye drops and, not that Daniel Tiger gets eye drops, but I looked on YouTube and I looked up a four year old boy getting eye drops in his eye.
不知为啥，我儿子，估计很多孩子都喜欢提前看看接下来要经历什么，尤其想看别的小孩是怎么做的。
And for whatever reason, my son and probably a lot of kids really like to see what's coming, and they like to see other kids doing the thing that they're about to do.
于是我给他看了丹尼尔老虎那集。
So I showed him the Daniel Tiger episode.
他看得入了迷。
He was enthralled.
对吧？
Right?
我就跟他说，明天咱们要去见医生，给你称称体重、量量身高，检查一下，看看你是不是一切都好。
And I said, you know, we're gonna go see your doctor tomorrow, and we're gonna weigh you and measure you and, you know, just check on and make sure you're you're doing great.
你就给医生展示一下，你有多棒。
Like, just show the doctor how great you're doing.
我们还要打针，然后看《丹尼尔老虎》，你就跟丹尼尔老虎一样做。
And we are gonna get shots and watch Daniel Tiger, and you're gonna do it just like Daniel Tiger.
效果很好。
Was good.
然后我们就去睡觉了。
And then we went to bed.
第二天早上我醒过来，跟他说：今天我早点去接你放学。
I woke up in the morning, and I said to him, I'm gonna pick you up early from school today.
记得吗？我们今天要去见医生。
Remember, we're gonna go see your doctor.
他说：可是我其实不太想打针。
And he was like, well, I don't really wanna get I don't wanna get shots.
他看起来挺紧张的。
He was, like, really kind of nervous about it.
我对他说：没关系。
And I said, it's okay.
你还记得丹尼尔老虎吗？
Remember Daniel Tiger?
他打过针了，表现得特别棒，你也会做得很好，就算有点害怕也没关系。
He got his shots and he did such a good job and you're gonna do such a good job and you could be scared.
那时候，我整个人都紧紧靠着我的医生贝基。
You know, I was really, like, leaning into my doctor, Becky, at this moment.
我儿子却说：‘可丹尼尔老虎是只老虎啊。’
And then my son goes, but Daniel Tiger is a tiger.
他不是小男孩，我觉得这特别好笑。
He's not a boy, which I thought was very funny.
我孩子特别较真。
My kid is very literal.
我相信在座的不少家长也遇到过类似的情况。
I'm sure you some of you guys have the same thing going on.
不过，这招还真管用，我们顺利到了诊所。
However, it did help because we get to the doctor.
我比他还紧张。
I am more anxious than he is.
到了医院以后。
We get there.
我们照常做该做的事。
You know, we do the thing.
我们一边聊天，一边把打针留到最后。
We're talking, and we save the vaccine for the end.
快到结尾时，我会告诉他：护士马上进来，要给你打一针了。
And I say to forward at the end, you know, we're gonna the nurse is coming in, and he's gonna give you a shot.
你想拿iPad看个视频，还是玩个游戏？
Do you wanna hold this iPad and watch something or play a game?
他接过iPad，护士也给了他选择。
He takes the iPad, and they give him the option.
你想打在腿上，还是胳膊上？
Do you wanna do it in your leg or your arm?
他说他想打胳膊，因为丹尼尔老虎就是这么做的。
He says he wants to do his arm because that's what Daniel Tiger did.
护士过去，就在他左臂打了针。
And the nurse goes, and he gives him the shot in his left arm.
啥反应都没有。
Nothing.
连眉头都没皱一下。
Doesn't flinch.
一点动静都没有。
Nothing.
然后我、护士和助理彼此对视了一眼。
And then me and the nurse and then the assistant are kind of all looking at each other.
啥情况？
Like, what?
这不会是碰巧吧？
Was that a fluke?
然后他迅速换到另一只胳膊，打了第二针。
And then he quickly moves over to the other arm, and he does the other shot.
我儿子连头都没抬一下。
Again, my son does not even look up.
我儿子直接说：‘这根本不疼。’
My son literally goes, well, that didn't hurt.
真的完全不疼。
It didn't even hurt.
这周我最大的胜利就是这个了。
That was my win this week.
太惊人了。
It was amazing.
我强烈建议在孩子要面对困难的前一天提前做好准备，看看丹尼尔老虎有没有经历过类似的事，因为他几乎什么都经历过。
I highly recommend preparing your kid the day before something hard, and I see if Daniel Tiger's done it because he's pretty much done it all.
虽然他是一只老虎，不是小男孩，但这个办法还真管用。
And even though he's a tiger and not a boy, it still did the trick.
不多说了，让我们欢迎精彩的索尼·威廉姆斯。
Without further ado, I want to bring on the wonderful Sonni Williams.
今天我们请来的嘉宾是索尼·威廉姆斯。
Our guest today is Sonni Williams.
她是一位持证专业心理咨询师，专攻围产期心理健康，擅长叙事疗法和阅读疗法。
She is a licensed professional counselor and perinatal mental health certified clinician with expertise in narrative therapy and bibliotherapy.
待会儿我们会详细聊聊这些是什么。
We're gonna get into what that is.
她特别热衷于帮助人们理解自己的故事，活出真正想要的人生。
She's passionate about helping individuals make sense of their stories and step into the lives they truly want.
她的工作主要围绕人生转折、人际关系、界限建立，以及缓解焦虑、情绪创伤和女性心理健康问题。
Her work focuses on life transitions, relationship dynamics, boundary setting, and healing from anxiety, emotional trauma, and women's mental health.
她简直就是个魔法师。
She's basically a wizard.
索尼是2021年加入BetterHelp的，现在担任高级临床运营经理。
Sonni joined BetterHelp in 2021 and currently serves as senior clinical operations manager.
她致力于消除对心理治疗的污名，推动可及且符合文化背景的心理健康服务，尤其关注非裔、原住民和有色人种群体。
She's deeply committed to reducing stigma around therapy and advocating for accessible, culturally responsive mental health care, particularly particularly within BIPOC communities.
欢迎来到LadyGang，欢迎来到BabyGang。
Welcome to the LadyGang, to the BabyGang.
我正想说BabyGang呢。
I was gonna say the BabyGang.
我状态特别好。
I'm so good.
我当时就想，说不定我真是个魔法师。
I was like, maybe I am a wizard.
你就是个魔法师。
You are a wizard.
好的。
Okay.
那什么是叙事疗法呢？
So what is bibliotherapy?
首先，我看了之后就想，我得重新回学校了。
First of all, I read that and I was like, well, I need to go back to school.
不用。
You don't.
咱们拆开来看，'biblio'就是书的意思。
So just break it down biblio book.
实际上我在咨询中会用到各种书，不管是小说、非虚构作品还是自助类，只要跟我们正在处理的问题相关，我都会用。
So essentially I use books in my practice, whether it's fiction, non fiction, self help, if it matches what we're working on, we can use it.
哦，我喜欢这个。
Oh, I love this.
对啊。
Yeah.
我和我儿子也这么做，我记得以前真有位治疗师给我推荐过一本儿童读物，帮我渡过难关，效果简直出奇地好。
I do this with my son and I think to myself, I actually did have a therapist once give me a children's book to help me work through something, and it actually was it was a miracle worker.
我后来买了一本，现在我儿子也在读。
I I ordered it, and now my son reads it.
这是一种美妙的循环，通过学习艰难的教训，或者学会如何处理情绪。
It's this beautiful cyclical thing of of learning hard lessons or figuring out how to process emotions.
真的特别棒。
It's really awesome.
这是最好的工具。
It's it's the best tool.
我在研究生时期就爱上了这种方式，而我本来就一直很喜欢读书。
I fell in love with it in grad school, and I was always a lover of books anyway.
是的。
Yeah.
而且我
And I
我当时就想，这太对我的胃口了。
was like, oh, this is my jam.
这就是我生活的重心。
This this is where I live.
是的
Yeah.
真是太好了
It's so great.
好的
Okay.
首先，我想跟你聊聊你作为母亲的这段经历。
So first of all, I wanna talk to you about your voyage through motherhood.
我特意没用‘旅程’这个词，因为这是一段远航。
I'm just taking the word journey out because it's a voyage.
这是一段
It's a
远航
voyage.
我们还在
We're we're still
正在途中。
on passage.
是的。
Yes.
我们确实如此。
We are.
我们确实如此。
We are.
你当然以此为业，但我也相信你也是普通人。
So, obviously, you do this for a living, but I'm sure you're you're human.
当你晚年成为母亲时，有没有遇到什么困难？
Did you have any struggles becoming a mother later in motherhood?
哪些事情对你来说比较自然顺利？
What came easy to you?
我想，即使是专业人士，也要让这段经历显得更有人情味。
I guess just humanizing the experience even for professionals.
听到你有这么多经验，真让人感到安心。
It's nice to hear you have experience with with so much of it.
谢谢。
Thank you.
我也是普通人，正是成为母亲的经历让我决定重返校园，考取围产期心理健康认证。
Really quick, I am human and my voyage into motherhood is what prompted me to go back to get my certification for perinatal mental health.
这并不是我最初想从事的方向。
It was not what I started out doing.
是故事的力量，还有阅读疗愈的作用。
It was the narrative and the bibliotherapy.
我第一个孩子出生在2020年，是个疫情宝宝。
And I had my first in twenty twenty, a pandemic baby.
我进医院的那周，整个世界都停摆了。
And I went into the hospital the weekend that the world shut down.
3月20号那天，我在一片寂静的产科病房里生下了孩子。
I was in the hospital March 20, giving birth on a very quiet Labor And Delivery Floor.
那感觉特别诡异。
It was very eerie.
我说不清楚到底怎么回事，但带宝宝回家后，一切都变得不一样了。
It was just, I don't even know how to explain it, but when I brought baby home, it was very different.
你也能想到，根本没人来探望。
As you can imagine, there were no visitors.
谁都不会顺路来看看。
There was no stopping by.
没人问一句：你们俩现在怎么样？
There was no, how are you guys doing?
什么都没有。
There was none of that.
就我、我老公、一个婴儿，还有一条狗，大眼瞪小眼，互相摸索着怎么过日子。
It was me and my husband, a baby and a dog staring at each other, trying to figure it out.
我当时有产后焦虑，但自己根本没意识到，只觉得：这不就是世界现在的样子吗？
So I had postpartum anxiety, but I didn't know it because I was just like, this is the world.
我什么都害怕。
I'm afraid of everything.
后来，世界慢慢恢复了它本该有的样子，就是我们大家都经历过的那种状态。
And so the world got back to as normal as it could be after that, what we all kind of experienced.
当我怀上第二个孩子时，我以为那段时间的生活已经恢复到我能接受的正常了。
And when I got pregnant with my second, again, I thought things were as normal as they could have been for me in that time.
结果我又遭遇了产后焦虑和抑郁。
And I got hit with postpartum anxiety and depression.
我当时就想，等等，现在可不是疫情期间了。
And I was like, wait a minute, it's not the pandemic now.
这完全是另一回事。
So this is something totally different.
我当治疗师时积累的所有经验，都没能帮上忙。
All the skills that I had as a therapist did not prepare me.
我根本没法调整自己的想法。
I was not able to reframe.
我根本没办法改变自己的想法和思维模式。
I was not able to change my thoughts and my patterns.
我当时深陷泥潭，完全出不来。
I was very much in a hole.
于是，我开始主动寻求帮助。
And so then I started to reach out.
我知道有几位同事专攻围产期心理健康，但我压根不知道这还是一种专业领域。
I knew of some colleagues that did perinatal mental health, and I had no idea that that was even a thing.
我从来没想过，这竟然也能成为我的选择。
I didn't know it was an option for me.
我立刻联系了他们，说：‘我需要一个真正懂我的治疗师，能理解我正在经历的一切。’
And I immediately reached out and I was like, Hey, I need a therapist that gets it, that speaks the language of what I'm experiencing.
这对我的人生来说，简直是转折点。
And that was life changing for me.
从那时起，我就下定决心：我也要为其他人做同样的事。
And then from that point I was like, Oh, I need to do this for others.
我得把别人给我的这份帮助，也传递下去。
I need to do what was given to me.
接下来的两年，我一直在参加各种培训，做所有该做的事，通过各项考核，只为能陪在妈妈们身边，和她们一起走过这段路。
And then I spent the next two years in trainings, doing all the things, taking the tests so that I could walk alongside mothers in their journey.
只要能有一个人不用再经历我那样的痛苦，
They, if even one didn't have to go through what I went through,
你知道的，
you know,
我觉得这事儿我算是做成了。
job well done for me, I think.
真没想到，我也是怀孕之后才第一次听说这事，
Isn't it wild that I didn't know either until I got pregnant for the first time no.
第二次怀孕的时候，我特别抑郁。
My second pregnancy, and I was just so depressed.
之前为了要孩子，经历了那么多波折，还有那么多失去，可到那时，我连一个活生生的孩子都没能抱在怀里。
And I had been through so much fertility, you know, and so much loss, and I still didn't have a baby earth side at that point.
我记得第一次流产之后，我特别兴奋，心想：太好了。
And I remember I was so excited after the first loss that it was was like, yes.
我们一定会再怀上，结果真的又怀上了。
We're gonna get pregnant again, and we got pregnant again.
但很快，我就陷入了一种疯狂的低落状态。
And quickly, I fell into this crazy, dark slump.
我当时想，我明明应该是最开心、最光彩照人的准妈妈才对，一切都该是完美的。
And I thought, well, I'm supposed to be the most excited I've ever been right now, and the glowing pregnant woman, you know, the whole thing.
那是我第一次听说还有生殖心理治疗、精神科、围产期心理这些概念。
And that was the first time I had heard about any kind of reproductive therapy, psychiatry, perinatal.
我们平时总听人说起产后抑郁，因为有些轰动性的真凶案件把它炒得很火，但真的让人很难过。
All these words were we heard about postpartum a lot, I think, because it was kind of sensationalized by some famous stories of true crime, which is just so sad.
可这其实是一种巨大的忽视。
But I I it's such a disservice.
我很高兴现在有越来越多的人开始关注这个领域，因为过去我们只能自己咬牙硬撑，熬过去就算了。
I'm so happy there are so many people that are now starting to go into this field because for so long, we just sort of, like, pulled up our bootstraps and made it through.
barely.
Barely.
你知道吗，这么多人之前都走过这条路，我想我也可以。
You know, so many have done it before me, so I guess I can do it too.
你主动去寻求帮助，真的很了不起。
And kudos to you for seeking it out.
我希望你最终能对自己温柔一点，是的，你肯定为再次怀孕感到开心，但你依然带着失去的创伤。
And I feel like, I hope eventually you gave yourself some grace because yes, I'm sure you were excited about being pregnant again, but you still had the trauma of the loss.
事实就是如此。
That's what it was.
你一直在承受那份悲伤。
Still were living with that grief.
很多妈妈经历流产后，都会经历一种被忽视的哀伤，因为别人不知道该怎么安慰你。
And a lot of times when moms have miscarriages, they have disenfranchised grief because people don't know what to say to you.
就算他们开口，有时候说的反而不合适。
And if they do say anything, sometimes it's the wrong thing.
就是说，还可以再试一次。
Like, well, can try again.
没错。
Right.
至少你和我说这些的时候，我就只想说，拜托，什么也别说了。
Well, least you and that to me, I'm just like, yeah, that please just don't say anything.
确实如此。
It really is.
这真的很难，但我特别感激。
It's such it's and that's actually, I'm so grateful.
当时我的治疗师说，这种悲伤其实是之前经历的创伤在复发。
My therapist at the time said, this is this is grief coming in from what you already experienced.
这不是从零开始、重新来过那么简单。
It's not like a clean slate and we get to try over.
不是说你烤了个蛋糕，烤砸了，扔掉，再烤一个新的。
It's not like you baked a cake, you messed it up, you threw it away, and you bake a new one.
其实，我们是在为失去那个机会而难过。
Like, it's we're grieving the loss of that other thing.
所以，这真的挺难的。
And so it's just it's it's hard.
就我自己来说，我当妈妈的时间稍微晚了一些。
And I and I know for myself, I became a mom a little bit later.
那时候我都三十多岁快四十了。
I was in my late thirties.
我知道你经常和女性以及她们的身份认同打交道，这确实是个大问题。
And I I know you work a lot with women and their identities, and it's such a thing.
就像你有了孩子一样。
It's like you have this baby.
你就获得了一个头衔，一种新的身份。
You become title, this new identity.
我觉得这对所有人都一样，但尤其对我而言，因为我大半辈子都只把自己当作独立的个体，所以要把婚前的我和成为母亲后的我这两种身份融合在一起，我真的花了很多力气去挣扎和适应。
And I I think it's for everybody across the board, but especially, I think, because I had lived so much of my life as being just me, myself, and I, that marrying the two identities of who I was before and who I was becoming as this mother, that's where I really struggled a lot.
当我当妈妈的时候，总觉得自己像个冒牌货，因为过去的那个我，早就被远远地甩在了后台。
And I felt like when I was being a mom, I was kind of fraudulent because there was so much of myself that was, like, kind of way back there in the wings.
你有没有发现很多人都这样？
Do you see this a lot?
你是怎么帮助妈妈们应对这种状况的呢？
And how do you do you work with with mothers dealing with this?
我跟每一位妈妈都会提前聊透，因为这才是最关键的——不是跟她们说‘当你怀孕时该期待什么’，而是坦诚地告诉她们：当孩子出生后，生活到底会变成什么样。
So I am all about preparation with the moms that I work with, because that makes the biggest difference, having honest conversations leading up to, hey, this is what it's gonna be like, not what to expect when you're expecting.
孩子来了之后，日子会是什么样子？我们得提前说清楚。
Hey, when we're in the thick of it, once the baby is here, what does that look like?
我会直接问：你最想保留下来的，是哪两到三件事？
And so I'm very honest in saying, what two to three things do you want to hold onto?
现在的你，有哪些特质是你真心喜欢、绝对不希望因为当妈妈就丢掉的？
This person that you are today, what are two to three things that you just love about yourself that you do not want motherhood to change?
告诉我这些，我们一起想办法守住它们。
Tell me those things so we can make a plan to protect that.
毕竟到头来，你总会变的。
Because at the end of the day, you are gonna change.
你会被赋予一个新的身份。
You are gonna be given this new title.
就算你拼了命想守住原来的自己，别人看你的目光也会不一样。
And even if you try to hold on tooth and nail with everything that you have, people are gonna see you differently.
你会不一样，那些过去的部分，你也得学会告别。
You are going to be different and you have to grieve those pieces of you too.
你不可能什么都留住，当了妈妈，人真的会变。
You can't hold onto everything that you were because motherhood, it changes you.
这事儿就是会发生。
It just does.
但我相信，你还是能守住一些核心的东西，那些真正属于你的价值。
But I do believe that you can hold onto core pieces, core values of who you are.
我以前可是个午睡女王。
I was always a nap queen.
真棒。
Good for you.
我做不到。
Can't do it.
我太羡慕了。
I'm so jealous.
听我说，我必须得睡。
Listen, I need it.
别人说宝宝睡的时候你也睡，我就想，我得好好琢磨一下这个。
So when people said nap when the baby nap, I was like, let me figure this out.
衣服可以晚点洗，碗可以晚点刷。
That laundry can wait, those dishes can wait.
我得先抓紧时间睡一觉。
Let me get this nap in.
所以我一直坚持为自己留出这段休息时间。
So that was something that I protected for myself.
不管是想做个坚持锻炼的妈妈，还是想保护好属于女儿们的夜晚，
And whether it's, I wanna be a mom that continues to work out, I wanna be a mom that protects my girls' nights.
不管是什么，你不必为此设限，但我真的觉得，你得清楚明白，并不是所有东西都能随你一起进入母亲这个角色。
Whatever it is, you don't have to limit it, but I do feel like you have to have a very clear understanding of everything can't come with you into motherhood.
哇哦。
Wow.
我喜欢这个说法。
I love that.
我以前从来没听过这种观点。
I've never heard that before.
我脑子里第一反应就是这个。
And that's what my brain went to.
说我想保持活跃，这样想是不是太肤浅了？
It's like, is it shallow to say that I would have wanted to stay active?
锻炼身体。
Work out.
不是。
No.
这关系到我的心理健康。
It's my sanity.
我的意思是，有时候你真的会沉浸进去。
I mean and, yeah, and and and sometimes you get into it.
如果我提前做这个练习，一定会很有帮助，因为它也是一种对自己的一种尊重。
Like, if I had done this exercise leading up to it, it would have been so helpful because it's also a way of honoring yourself still.
没错。
Yes.
我对自己许下过承诺，这件事是我真正喜欢、也引以为傲的部分，它让你有底气去做。
You know, it's like I made this promise to myself that this is something that I I enjoy and I love about myself, like, gives you permission Mhmm.
而不是一出门去练瑜伽或者做别的什么，就觉得自己在犯错。
To do it instead of feeling guilty for walking out that door and going to yoga or whatever it is.
正是如此。
Exactly.
还得有个计划，对吧？
And a plan, right?
因为当妈妈是一份工作，一份美好的工作，有时候还是份不被感激的工作。
Because motherhood is a job, a beautiful job, sometimes a thankless job.
没错。
Oh yeah.
但这是一份全天候、全年无休的工作。
But it is very much this twenty four seven thing.
你不会在不了解岗位职责的情况下，就贸然接受一份工作吧？比如，这工作到底包含些什么？
And you would not take a job sight unseen without knowing the job description of, Hey, what comes with it?
所以，如果你带着计划进入母亲这个角色，我觉得你会从容得多。
So when you go into it with a plan, I think it makes you all the better off.
计划当然可能出岔子，但至少你心里有数。
Now plans can go awry, but at least you have it.
至少你有个蓝图，知道自己至少要先做到哪些事。
At least you have a blueprint of, okay, I'm at least gonna do this.
至少得牢牢抓住这一点。
Gonna at least hold onto this.
这真的很有帮助。
It makes a difference.
知道这个真的很有用。
That is really a helpful thing to know.
我得告诉我的所有朋友。
I'm gonna tell all my friends.
是的。
Yep.
让更多人知道。
Spread the word.
好的。
Okay.
女性常常被教育说，价值在于对他人有用。
So, women are often socialized to find worth in being useful.
当一位母亲的自我价值完全建立在她对家庭的贡献上时，你最先观察到的倦怠心理迹象是什么？
And when a mother's identity is entirely consumed by her utility within her family, what are the first psychological markers of burnout you observe?
妈妈容易发怒，变得急躁，任何小事都能让你生气。
Mom rage, irritability, everything makes you upset.
哪怕是最微不足道的小事。
Smallest of things.
是的。
Yeah.
比如，碗还没洗，湿衣服堆着，孩子只想抱一抱，可你已经给了二十个拥抱，真的有点被掏空了；或者你带的是幼儿，他们不停地问‘为什么’，你解释了，他们又听不懂。
You know, the dishes that didn't get started, the wet laundry, the child that just wants a hug, but you've given 20 hugs and you're a little, you know, you're a little touched out or, you know, if you have the toddlers, all of the questions and the why, and then you answer why, but they don't understand your answer.
于是又来一个‘为什么’。
So it's another why.
你对任何事都只剩一点点耐心了。
All of the things you have a very short fuse to work with.
这时候你就会发现，自己对什么都完全没耐心了。
That's what you start to see where you just have zero patience for anything.
是的。
Yeah.
这正是最早的一个信号。
That's one of the first signs.
明白了。
Okay.
当你注意到这些迹象时，那一刻当然有很多事情需要处理，长远来看是这样，但我也曾经就处在那种状态里。
And then you see the signs and then in that moment, obviously there's stuff to be worked out, you know, long term, but I mean, I've been there in that moment.
那你该怎么办？
What do you do?
你会建议你的患者怎么做？
What do you, what do you tell your, your patients to do?
给自己放个假，暂时离开一下，真的需要跟周围的人和事分开一会儿。
Take a time out, put, put yourself on time out and you really need to separate yourself.
我说的这个离开，不是要你走出家门。
When I say that, I'm not meaning to leave the house.
我的意思是，如果你的伴侣或者家里有其他人能照看孩子，你又能抽出一两个小时离开一下，那就去吧。
I mean, you're, if your partner or if you have a family member that can watch the child and you are able to get away for an hour or two, do that.
但如果没人帮忙，就在家里找一个能让你安心的地方，管它在哪儿呢。
But if not find you a safe space in your home, I don't care where it is.
哪怕是你家的衣橱也行。
It can be your closet.
我真的不在意那里是哪儿。
I don't, I don't care.
而且要坦诚一点，妈妈需要一点自己的时间。
And be very honest, mommy needs a moment.
我需要
I need a
几分钟，好好静一静，调整一下状态。
minute and take that time for yourself to kind of reset.
但这并不是万能解法。
But it's not a cure all.
这不过是让你从当下那种压力中稍微喘口气。
It's just kind of a reprieve of what you're experiencing in the moment.
你确实还需要做更多努力，但这是我首先会建议你去做的。
You do need to take steps beyond that, but that's the first thing that I would tell you to do.
当你感到情绪突然飙升，到底发生了什么？
When you are feeling that heightened level of just, what is happening?
给自己两到五分钟，做做深呼吸，稳住自己，摸摸身边的东西——你知道的，不一定非得摸草地，但你周围有什么？
Take two to five minutes to yourself, deep breathing exercise, ground yourself, touch some, you know, you can't always touch grass, but what's around me?
我有没有一条柔软的毯子？
Do I have a soft blanket?
有没有什么能让我安心的东西，就拿一分钟好好待一会儿，调整好状态，再回去面对这一天？
Do I have something of comfort that I can have for just a minute for myself to reset and then go back and face the day?
这真的太棒了。
It's really amazing.
我们居然能从自己、从家人、从社区那里得到这么多认可。
Like, this thing of us getting so much accolades from ourselves, from our communities, from our husbands
是的。
Yeah.
能高效完成事情，这就是你作为超级妈妈的体现。
That being useful and getting it all done is like your super mom, your super mom.
而这确实会让你产生一种想法：我得离开家一会儿。
And it's just that does lead you to those moments of being like, I've gotta get out of my house.
没错。
Like, just Yep.
这其实是个很好的提醒：事情没那么严重。
So it it is such a good reminder that it's just not it's not that deep.
碗可以晚点洗。
The dishes can wait.
衣服可以晚点晾。
The laundry can wait.
如果你状态不好，没感到轻松、平静、耐心，也享受不了这些时刻，那到底是什么呢？
If you are not at your best and feeling your best and calm and patient and enjoying those moments, like it's just what is it?
为什么呢？
Why?
如果当妈妈已经让你快撑不住了，还何必拼命做超人妈妈呢？
Why do all that work to be super mom if your job of mom is killing you at the moment?
这确实挺难的。
Like it's it's tough.
是的。
Yeah.
我总是想，你真的想当超人妈妈吗？
And I'm always like, do you want to be a super mom?
对吧。
Right.
你是个平衡型的妈妈。
You're a balanced mom.
我也是。
Same.
我想当个像样的妈妈。
I wanna be, you know, mom look.
妈妈得有条不紊。
Mom has it together.
她总是稳稳当当的。
She's even.
我不需要事事都做到极致。
Like, I don't need to be above and above and beyond.
我把自己归为B型妈妈，因为这套方法帮我挺大忙的，我猜你在实践中也用类似的方式。
I call myself the type a type b mom because I have this is what's been helping me, and I'm probably sure you do something like this in your practice.
学校发来的邮件多得数不清，还有各种活动、游泳课，乱七八糟的事情一大堆。
But, you know, there's so many emails that come in from school, and there's so many things and activities and swim lessons and blah blah blah blah blah blah.
是的。
Mhmm.
我会想，到底哪些事是我必须作为A型妈妈去做的？
I'm like, I have a category of what what do I need to be a type a mom for?
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哪些事情是绝对不能少的？
What are the what are the things that are an absolute?
我必须按时交押金，才能让孩子参加游泳课。
I need to get that deposit in on time to get my kid into the swim lesson.
我非得上网买新的防晒衣吗？我们不是还有一个旧的，凑合着也能用吗？
Do I need to go online and order rash guards, like new ones for, you know, the summer when we have one dingy one that's gonna be okay?
不用。
Yes.
我会把事情分成A类和B类，然后我真就往B类靠，这样反而特别轻松，因为根本没那么重要。
We're gonna, like I put it in type a bucket and the type b bucket, and I really do become very type b, and it feels great because it doesn't matter.
真正重要的是那些事，但我花了四年才明白这个道理。
And it's the things it's just such a it took me four years to get here.
现在正好是教师感恩周，你说我们是不是该感谢老师？
Like, it's crazy to this is teacher appreciation week, and, you know, you're do we love our teachers?
我们当然很感激老师，但真有必要每天都要做点什么来表达这份感谢吗？
We appreciate them so much, but do I need to do something every day of the week to, like, honor that?
我能不能就做一件大事？
Can I just do one big thing?
他们搞什么每周主题日。
They have these days of the week.
星期一送花，考试时发零食，诸如此类的。
They're Mondays, flowers, test snacks, blah blah blah blah.
我坐在那儿想，其实老师们更希望得到的是什么？
And I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, you know what these teachers would probably appreciate so much more?
一张大额的亚马逊礼品卡。
One giant Amazon gift card.
他们根本不需要今天这点酸酸甜甜的糖果。
They don't need Sour Patch Kids today.
你现在也只能想想了。
You can only wish now.
我也是。
Same.
我也是这么想的，干脆就按他们的喜好来，送礼品卡好了。
I too was like, I'm just gonna do, you know, what they want, the gift cards.
对啊。
Right.
再配上一张暖心的卡片，我喜欢你把事情分成A类、B类这种做法，因为我以前当妈妈前可是个标准的A型人格。
And the sweet message, and I love how you break it into categories of type A, type B, because I was very type A before kids.
现在我改了不少。
And so now I'm reformed.
我管自己叫灵活型A型人格，你知道的。
I call myself a flexible type A, you know?
我还会不会看我的计划表？
I still look my plan?
我还会不会用不同颜色分类东西？
Do I still color code the things?
会的。
Yes.
但如果事情偏离了计划，我会失去控制吗？
But do I lose my, you know what, if things go left?
不会。
Nope.
我就想，算了，时间到了就该调整。
I'm like, well, time.
确实如此。
It's so true.
真的没错。
It's so true.
是的。
Yeah.
明白了。
Okay.
为什么社会上总有一种倾向，觉得女性要等到情况紧急了才行动？
So why is there a cultural tendency for women to wait until they're in this state of emergency?
就像她们在衣柜里崩溃，或者在车里发脾气。
Like, they're they're breakdown in the closet or there's they're rage in the car.
你怎么把心理咨询描述成一种维持状态的工具，而不是承认自己软弱？
How do you frame therapy as a tool for sustaining rather than admitting weakness?
首先，寻求帮助还是有点社会污名的。
For one, there is still a little bit of stigma around seeking out help.
我觉得一般人对心理咨询还是有误解。
And I feel like people in general still view therapy.
我不太明白这一点。
I don't understand it.
还有这种只在危机来临时才反应的做法，这种创伤应对模式——我的观点是，人们应该明白，就像你去健身房、请私人教练、有支持你的朋友一样。
And just this thing of this crisis response, this trauma response, and I, my soapbox, I'm trying to get people to understand just how you go to the gym, just how you have a trainer, just how you have your people, right?
给你做头发的发型师、帮你做指甲的人，你都会和他们相处多年，但人们就是想不到，我是不是也该把心理咨询师加入我的支持团队，让我能成为更好的自己。
The girl that does your hair, the person you go to for nails, you'll be with those people for years, but people don't seem to think, oh, I need to add a therapist into, you know, my group of people into my team of making sure that I'm my best self.
但如果你这么做了，就会明白，我的心理咨询师可以陪伴我走过人生的各个阶段，因为生活一直在变化。
But if you do that, you realize, okay, my therapist can walk alongside me in multiple seasons of life because life is ever changing.
我觉得你一直都需要这样一个专属的、让你安心的支持空间。
And I feel like you always need that level of support, that safe space that's just for you.
这正是治疗的意义所在。
And that's what therapy is.
所以我们更该聊聊，其实没必要非得等事情彻底崩盘了才去寻求帮助。
And so I feel like we need to talk more about, Hey, it doesn't just have to be when things have just all fell down.
你可以提前做好准备。
You can be prepared.
甚至可以主动管理自己的心理健康。
You can be proactive with your mental health even.
我希望更多人能真正理解这一点。
And that's what I wish more people would take away from that.
我知道。
I know.
我从来没听说有人后悔去过治疗或接受过治疗。
I feel like I've never heard anybody say they regret going to therapy or having therapy.
有时候你就是不想谈自己，可说完之后又觉得，嗯，这事儿真有帮助。
Like it's, I mean, there's days where you're like, oh, I don't wanna talk about myself, but then you get out of it and you're like, well, that was helpful.
整个过程一点都没浪费我的时间。
There was nothing about it that was a waste of my time.
我们做的很多事，可没法这么说。
You can't say that for a lot of things that we do.
有时候那节普拉提课，纯粹就是白费时间。
Sometimes that Pilates class was a waste of our time.
我同意。
I agree.
而且，治疗要是碰上特别难熬的一天，正因为你在真正起作用，你可能会想，今天真不想面对这些，但熬过去之后，你会感觉好很多。
But, and also the therapy part, if it's like a hard day in therapy, because therapy is working, you might be like, oh, I don't want to do the work today, but you're all the better for it on the other side.
你总能学到一些方法，帮自己应付日常，或者渡过那些难过的时刻。
And you're constantly being able to get tools to just get through the day or get through whatever that hard thing is.
你不是非得等事情爆发了才去应对。
But you're not waiting for that hard thing to happen.
你得提前做好准备，因为生活就是这样。
You're preparing for it ahead of time because that's life.
困难总会来，躲不掉的。
There's going to be It's the hard
确实如此。
so true.
你不会等着那场碰撞发生了才去应对。
I know you don't wait for that collision to fit.
不会。
No.
感谢我们的赞助商BetterHelp。
Thank you to our presenting sponsor, BetterHelp.
当妈妈之后，没人告诉你，每天要操心的事有多耗神。
One thing nobody really prepares you for with motherhood is how much mental energy goes into every single day.
你得想着孩子、家人、关系、工作、预约、日程、三餐，可就在这些忙乱中间，你还得抽空照顾好自己。
You're thinking about your baby, your family, your relationships, work, appointments, schedules, meals, and somewhere in there, you're also supposed to take care of yourself too.
我觉得很多妈妈都感受到一种压力，总觉得得把一切都做到完美。
And I think a lot of moms feel this pressure to somehow do it all perfectly.
但说实话，即使你最爱自己的家人，当父母有时候还是让人喘不过气。
But the truth is parenting can feel overwhelming sometimes even when you love your family more than anything.
肩上的担子真的不轻。
It's still a lot to carry.
我们往往太专注于让别人过得好，却很少停下来问问自己：我怎么样？
And I think a lot of us are so focused on making sure everyone else is okay that we don't always stop and check-in with ourselves.
找一个不在你日常生活中的人聊聊，真的会有帮助。
Having someone outside of your everyday life to talk to can really help.
心理咨询能给你一个空间，去消化那些压力、无休止的精神负担，还有在婚姻、育儿、工作之间周旋，最后还希望自己别丢了自我。
Therapy can give you a space to process the stress, the constant mental load, the balancing act of marriage, parenting, work, and still trying to feel like yourself at the end of the day.
BetterHelp 让开始咨询变得很简单。
BetterHelp makes getting started simple.
你填一份简短的问卷，系统就会根据你的需求和偏好，匹配一位持证心理咨询师。
You fill out a short questionnaire and get matched with a licensed therapist based on your needs and preferences.
如果你觉得某个咨询师不合适，随时可以换人。
And if you ever feel like it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists anytime.
BetterHelp 已经帮助了全球数百万人，平台上拥有三万多名持证咨询师。
BetterHelp has served millions of people worldwide and has more than 30,000 therapists on the platform.
本节目由 BetterHelp 赞助播出。
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
注册即享九折优惠，访问 betterhelp.com/babygang 即可。
Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com/babygang.
网址是 betterhelp.com/babygang。
That's better,help,.com/babygang.
明白了。
Okay.
这话说的就是我。
So this is for me.
我从来没想过，自己会变成这样的妈妈。
I am just I never thought I'd be this mom.
对吧？
Right?
好的。
Okay.
对于孩子逐渐独立的妈妈们，您建议她们如何重新找回母亲身份之外的自我？
For mothers whose children are becoming independent, how do you suggest they begin to reclaim their identity outside of being a mother?
我先给您稍微交代一下背景。
And I'll give you a little bit of context for this.
我知道，今年夏天我就要迎来第二个孩子了，之前有一段时间，我们并不确定能不能成功。
I you know, I'm about to have my second child at the end of this summer, and for a while, we were not sure if it was gonna happen for us.
那几年真是起起落落的。
You know, it it was a couple years of ups and downs.
所以我和我丈夫一起认真思考过，如果我们只有一个儿子，未来的生活会是什么样子。
And so we my husband and I, we did all this work around, like, what does life look like if we have our son and and just our son?
那真的很美好。
And it's beautiful.
这真的很美好，我其实还挺期待的，因为我们真的好好思考过只养一个孩子的种种好处。
It's this beautiful I was excited actually about like, we really did the work around the pros of having a singleton.
对。
Yes.
但后来我突然意识到，等等。
And but then I was like, wait a second.
我手机里不断跳出我儿子八个月大的照片，还有两岁时的照片。
The the pictures pop up on my phone of my son when he's eight months old, and the pictures pop up of him at two years old.
我就想，他已经越来越独立了，现在需要我的地方少多了，哪怕他才四岁半，和以前完全不一样。
And I'm like, well, he's already becoming so independent, and he barely needs me the like, the amount that he needs me now, even at four and a half, is so different.
我觉得我可能会遇到一些困难。
And I thought, I'm gonna have some trouble here.
如果我们不再要第二个孩子，我都能想象自己会变成什么样。
Like, we don't have another baby come into this to the mix, I could see myself.
我从来没想过，我会变成那样的人。
I never thought I would be that person.
我当时就想，赶紧熬过这个婴儿期吧。
I was like, get me through this baby phase.
熬过这个幼儿期就好了。
Get me through this toddler phase.
等他上幼儿园我就轻松了。
Get me to get him to kindergarten.
可现在我反而在想，我接下来该干嘛呢？
And now I'm like, well, what the what am I gonna do with myself?
接下来怎么办？
What now?
接下来怎么办？
What now?
我可是已经做了这么多，你说我该干嘛？我马上又要迎接新生儿了。
Like, I've done so, you know, what do you I mean, I'm about to go into the newborn.
再过四年，等一切都结束了，我肯定得好好伤感一阵子。
I'm gonna be probably talking to you in in four years from now when we're definitely done, and then I'm really grieving all of that.
但是，你会怎么告诉那些正经历孩子逐渐独立、不再那么依赖自己的妈妈们呢？
But what do you tell moms who are in that phase where it's like, they're moving on, they're they're they're becoming their little people and they don't need you as much?
我很喜欢你最后那句‘孩子正在变成独立的人’。
I love that you finished it with they're becoming little people.
没错。
Yes.
我通常会先换个角度看：当我们刚开始准备生孩子时，总想着‘要有个宝宝’，多温馨啊。
The first thing I start is a reframe because when we go into it, we're like, oh, we're going to have a baby and that's so sweet.
但其实你迎接的不是一个婴儿，而是一个完整的人。
And the baby you're having the person.
对。
Yeah.
如果我们足够幸运，就能看着他们成长，变得独立，成为真正的自己。
And if, if we are lucky, we get to watch those people grow and become independent and to become their whole selves.
这正是养育的真正意义。
And that is the point.
这正是重点。
That is the point.
所以我总想说，恭喜你自己吧。
And so I always wanna say, Hey, congratulate yourself.
你正迈向下一个里程碑。
Like you're getting to the next milestone.
你正在达到这个阶段。
You're getting to that.
你在为人父母的路上升级了，这不容易，但他们始终还是会需要你做点什么。
You're leveling up in your, your parenthood journey and it's hard, but they're always going to need you for something.
对吧？
Right?
可能不再是那些你熟悉的事了。
It may not be the things that you are used to.
可能不再是‘妈妈，我想抱抱’，或者‘妈妈，今晚你来给我盖被子’，‘我们手牵手吧’，‘给我亲亲’这些了。
It may not be mommy, I want snuggles or mommy, I just want you to tuck me in tonight or let's hold hands or give me kisses.
我知道，可能不是那样了。
It may not be that, I know.
可能不是那样，但会变成新的需求，比如‘妈妈，你能帮我擦屁股吗？’
It may not be that, but it'll be new things like mommy, can you help me wipe my butt?
因为你在教他如厕训练，或者帮他系鞋带，或者‘妈妈，我想读书’。
Cause you're potty training or help me tie my shoes or mommy, I want to read.
总会有新的事情，是你能教他们、引导他们、帮助他们的，陪你一起走过这些阶段。
Or there's always going to be something that you can teach them that you can show them that you can assist them with, walk alongside them with.
所以我总是跟妈妈们说，去找那些新的机会，看看你能怎么帮他们、怎么带他们，因为他们一直在学习。
So I just tell moms to look for that new thing where you can help and where you can show them the way, because they're always going to be learning.
他们永远都需要你，只是方式不一样了。
They're always going to need you, but it's going to be different.
你得放下过去那种期待。
And you have to release the need that you were used to.
完全对。
Totally.
是的
Yeah.
确实如此。
And it's so true.
我的意思是，每过一年，我都觉得越来越有意思了。
I mean, with every little every year that passes, I find it to be more fun even.
对。
Mhmm.
所以我现在有点怀旧吧。
So it's this thing that I'm just nostalgic, I guess.
但我真的从这些时刻里找到了快乐，比如带我儿子出门，我们俩一起过个小约会。
But I really do find joy in these you know, I could take my son out in the world, and we have, like, a little date together.
他八个月大的时候，我可没这么做过。
I didn't do that when he was eight months old.
没有。
Nope.
所以啊，确实是这样。
So it's yeah.
没错。
It is.
这是一种心态的转变。
It's it's a reframing.
我以前还想着，我可不会成为那种妈妈。
And, yeah, I mean, I was like, I'm not I'm not gonna be that mom.
结果我就是那种妈妈。
I'm that mom.
好吧。
Okay.
最糟糕的。
Worst.
所以，行吧。
So okay.
最近在Instagram上，我看到很多人提到‘我们’，我真的特别喜欢这个说法。
When addressing we I've seen this so much on Instagram lately, and I love it so much.
隐形的负担。
The invisible load.
唉。
Ugh.
隐形的负担。
The invisible load.
我得说个大概，但我觉得很多时候，这些额外的事儿都是妈妈在操心——比如确保孩子远足带齐东西、签好表格、准备零食、买菜购物，还有各种别人看不见的琐事。
I think often, I'm gonna really generalize here, but I think a lot of the time, it's the mother who is doing all of those extra things, like making sure they have what they need for their field trip, the form signed, and the snack spot, and the ordering the groceries, and the and all these things that nobody really sees.
别人只看到你拿着手机，大概还以为你在刷Instagram呢。
They just see you on your phone, and they probably think you're scrolling Instagram.
对吧？
Right?
我知道这对女性来说真的很难，我身边很多女性朋友，以前都是上班的。
And I'm sure it's really difficult for women, and I have a lot of women in my life, in my community, who used to work.
现在她们待在家里带孩子，而丈夫们都有压力很大的全职工作。
Now they stay at home, and they raise their kids, and their husbands have these really big jobs and demanding jobs.
所以即使她们觉得这份看不见的负担重得喘不过气，需要帮忙，也不敢去跟丈夫开口说‘我快撑不住了’，因为她们觉得内疚——毕竟丈夫也在拼命工作，而她觉得自己也得扛起自己的那份责任。
And so for them, even when they're feeling like this invisible load is just insanely heavy and they need help with it, they don't feel like they have the authority to go to their husbands to say, I am struggling right now because they feel guilty that this that he's also doing his quote job and she needs to do her quote job.
那我们要怎么才能让人有勇气开口求助，甚至只是好好聊聊这件事呢？
How do you empower people to be able to ask or or even discuss it?
对啊。
Right.
这真让我气愤，我觉得这份负担根本不是看不见的。
It's infuriating to me, because I don't feel like the load is invisible.
它明明就摆在那儿，谁都看得到。
I feel like it's very visible.
比如在备孕阶段，甚至孩子出生后，夫妻双方都必须参加一些必要的课程，因为我们需要提前制定清晰的分工计划——比如，接下来会发生什么？
Like you see the things and I also do when we're in the preparation stage and even after baby has made it earth side, both partners have to be present for a certain amount of sessions because we need a clear plan in place of, okay, well, happens when?
我们该怎么分担这些事？
How do we share the load?
以前你一个人的时候，所有事都是自己搞定，衣服自己洗，碗自己洗，吃饭也自己安排，但现在进了婚姻，这一切好像就变了。
Because the things that you did as a single person, you fully took care of yourself, you washed your own clothes, you took care of your dishes, you made sure that you were fed, but now that you're in a partnership that changes somehow.
我觉得得时不时提醒一下，这事儿是团队合作，不是你一个人的事。
And I feel like there needs to be a reminder of sorts of this is a group project.
你不能光把名字挂上去就完事了。
You're not just gonna put your name on it.
我需要你真正站出来帮我。
I need you to show up for me.
我会鼓励我带的妈妈们勇敢表达，主动去面对这些问题。
And I do empower the moms that I work with to speak up and to lean into those things.
就算伴侣工作很忙，每天上班打卡，下班后他们往往觉得任务结束了。
And even if their partner has a demanding job and they go to work and they do their job, when they come home, most of the time they feel like they can clock out.
但当妈不一样，你永远没法下班。
Motherhood, you don't get to clock out.
所以得重新把这个问题摆到台面上：我真的很累，我一整天都在努力保持在线。
And so that needs to be brought to the forefront again of saying, Hey, I am struggling and I have worked all day to be present.
就算你觉得我一整天都在抱孩子，可那孩子确实一整天都需要我抱着。
Even if you feel like I've just held the baby all day, the baby needed me to hold them all day.
这可是我那天的本职工作。
That was my job for the day.
不是洗衣服。
It wasn't the laundry.
也不是确保有饭吃。
It wasn't making sure that there were meals.
所以我们该怎么平衡呢？哪怕是从外面请人帮忙做这些事，但最重要的是，得先开诚布公地谈。
So what can we do so that we have balance, even if that's bringing in help from the outside to do those certain tasks, but no, it needs to be honest conversation at the forefront.
一旦你开始觉得吃力，一旦感觉到不公平，就得立刻说出来，主动寻求帮助。
As soon as you start to struggle, as soon as you start to feel an imbalance, we need to start speaking up and asking for help.
是的。
Yeah.
这真的让我很震惊，因为我有幸一直有着特别忙的工作日程。
It is so it's really mind boggling to me because I've had the I've had the privilege of having a really demanding schedule work wise.
后来我也经历过好几周、好几个月全天待在家里的时候。
And then I've also had it where I'm home the whole time for several weeks, several months, whatever.
每次有机会和我圈子里的那些男人聊天，我都会说，我两个角色都干过。
I every chance I get with all these men in my community, I'm like, you know I've done both jobs.
对吧？
Right?
你知道哪个更累人吗？
You know which one's so much harder?
在家带小宝宝。
Staying at home with a small child.
这活儿根本停不下来。
It is relentless.
就算那孩子每天‘睡’三个小时，我也从没真正休息过。
And even though that child is, quote, sleeping or napping for three hours a day, I'm still not off the clock.
你想象一下，你上班一整天，二十四小时都在办公室，没人给你一刻钟离开座位。
Like, it's it's like, imagine you go to work for twenty four hours and you're in your office and nobody ever gives you a moment to step away.
你永远都在待命状态。
You are always on call.
你随时都得准备好照顾一个孩子。
You are always having to be at the ready to take care of a human.
我真的希望咱们能来个《 Freaky Friday》那样的交换，让那些男人跟他们的妻子互换几天。
And it's just I mean, I just wish that we could do that, like, Freaky Friday with some some of these men and their wives.
对，交换一下。
A swap.
你得明白，这可不是光有笑声和阳光，我也不只是在逗孩子玩。
Because I need you to, to understand that it's not all, you know, giggles and sunshine, and I'm not just bouncing the baby.
要是还涉及母乳喂养，那更是额外多了一项任务，你根本停不下来。
And it won't get me started if you're breastfeeding, and then that's an extra job on top of your job of staying on the clock.
这事必须说得清清楚楚，反复讲，直到他们真正懂为止。
And so it has to be very clearly stated and explained and over explained until they get it.
得让大家达成共识：我们是一起在扛这件事，我不想让你觉得孤单。
And there is a meeting of the minds of understanding, Hey, we're in this together and I don't want you to feel alone.
大多数时候，伴侣们都会突然明白过来，哦，原来如此。
And most of the time partners do have like that light bulb moment of, oh, okay.
我懂了。
I see.
我总是跟他们说，别问‘我能帮你什么？’
And I always tell them, do not ask, how can I help?
你自己看看周围。
Look around.
天哪。
Oh man.
有你这样的人在中间当调解者真是太好了，能坐下来告诉这些伴侣：她不是在瞎说。
It's so helpful to have someone like you in the middle, the mediator, to be able to sit there and tell these partners, she's not making this up.
这是所有女性都在经历的普遍情况，有个像你这样的治疗师在身边，真的轻松多了。
This is a universal thing that women are dealing with, and it's just so much easier to have support like a therapist to be there.
我很喜欢你跟夫妻们一起见面的做法。
And I love that you meet with the couples.
这想法也太妙了。
Like, how genius.
我猜有些人来的时候肯定又吵又闹。
I'm sure some of them come in kicking and screaming, though.
还没到那一步。
Not yet.
让我想想。
Let me okay.
很好。
Good.
很好。
Good.
我不是在给
I'm not giving
男人足够的肯定。
the men enough credit here.
我需要的是，你知道的，那种东西。
I need a you know what?
还没到那一步。
Not yet.
我会放轻松一点。
I go easy.
我会放轻松一点，因为对她们来说，产后这段路也不容易。
I go easy because the postpartum journey for them is hard too.
男人也会经历各种变化。
Men experience changes as well too.
所以我尽量保持平衡，但我也非常明确。
So I try to be as balanced as possible, but I am very clear.
我会坦诚地说清楚，现实中支持到底会是什么样子。
I am very honest of, okay, what will support look like in real time?
对。
Right.
我们该怎么在人生的下一阶段互相支持呢？
How can we protect each other in this next phase of life?
是的。
Yeah.
我最近开始做的一件事是，我觉得很多妈妈都坐在客厅里，拿着手机忙这忙那，处理一堆事情。
Something I've also started to do is I think a lot of moms are sitting in their living rooms on their phones, doing all the tasks, like taking care of all the things.
你知道吗？
And I'm like, you know what?
我现在会直接去另一个房间，给自己三十分钟，把所有事都做完，这样就不会一直被盯着，孩子也不会觉得我故意不理他们。
I'm gonna start just going to an entirely different room, giving myself thirty minutes, getting all that stuff done so that I don't have eyes on me, and I don't have kids just thinking that I'm ignoring them for no reason.
我会跟孩子说，妈妈要进房间待十分钟。
And it's like, mommy's gonna go in here for even ten minutes.
我要去下单买菜。
I'm gonna order the groceries.
我要把接下来要做的事都准备好。
I'm gonna get everything ready for the whatever.
我知道这并不总是那么明确，因为一天到晚都有事情突然冒出来，你得随时处理。
And I know it's not always that cut like, clear cut because things come in at every moment of the day, and you're having to handle them.
我的意思是，这么做对大家都有好处。
I guess what I'm saying is it's it's just better for everybody.
只要我抽二十分钟，或者哪怕一会儿，单独去把事情做完，就不会再有明明孩子就在眼前却假装没看见的负罪感了，你懂吧？
If I just take myself out of the equation for twenty minutes or whatever it is to take care of it, and then I don't have that guilt of ignoring my kid right in front of him, if that makes sense.
不，我完全明白。
No, that makes perfect sense.
而且等孩子再大一点，你就可以跟他们说：妈妈现在需要几分钟安静时间。
And I also like once they get older, right, then you can have those conversations of, mommy just needs the minute.
我正在下单买菜。
I'm ordering the groceries.
你想要苹果酱吗？
Do you want your applesauce?
我就是这么做的。
Like, that's what I'm doing.
所以他们知道，妈妈不是不想陪我玩。
And so they know, Oh, mommy's just, she doesn't want to play with me.
不是的，妈妈可以告诉你，嘿。
No, Mommy's able to tell you, hey.
现在我正在忙这件事。
This is what's going on right now.
对。
Mhmm.
我马上就来陪你。
I'll be with you in just a minute.
但眼下确实不行。
But for right now, yep.
先把自己分开一下。
Separate yourself.
我正在工作。
I'm doing work.
是的
Yeah.
天哪
Oh my god.
这事儿真没完没了
It never ends.
好吧
Okay.
没错
Right.
所以
So
当一位女性终于得到了她所需要的支援——不管是心理健康的治疗、心理咨询、社群支持，还是伴侣的帮助——你观察到母亲在获得这些支持后，有哪些细微的变化？
when a woman is finally getting the kind of support she needs, whether it's with her mental health, with a therapist or a community or, or help from her partner, what are the subtle shifts that you see in a mother after she's received that?
从身体上就能看出来，她们会从紧绷的状态慢慢放松下来。
Physically, you can start to see like they go from this to relax.
他们真的不一样了，一眼就能看出来。
There is a difference in them and you can see it.
真的能看出来。
You can see it.
你甚至能感觉到。
You can feel it.
我虽然是在线做咨询，但照样能看出来。
As a therapist, I do work virtually, but I can see it.
我能感觉到，他们肩上的担子好像轻了不少。
I can just see around them that a weight has been taken off.
你会发现，他们开始把重要的事放在前面了。
You see that they're starting to prioritize those important things.
他们开始回想起来：哦，这才是我当初说重要的事。
They're starting to remember, okay, this is what I said was important.
这才是我该有的样子。
This is how I'm going to show up.
他们就开始这么做了。
And they start doing that.
原本的对话几乎是‘唉，我怎么这么惨’。
And the sessions go from almost, oh, woe is me.
我到底在做什么？
What am I doing?
现在变成‘让我告诉你我做了什么’。
To let me tell you what I did.
然后我说，咱们得这么做、那么做。
And then I said, we need to do dah, dah, dah, dah.
我看到他们在实际运用这些方法。
I see them putting the tools in place.
所以对话的基调变了，我会说：好，既然边界已经设好了，接下来怎么维持呢？
So the conversations change and then I'm like, okay, so now that we've set the boundary, how do we maintain it?
从被动应对，变成了主动规划下一步该怎么做。
And it goes from being very reactive to, all right, now let's plan for what's coming next.
你开始看到他们把那些工具用起来了。
You start to see them putting the tools in place.
看着这一切真的特别暖心，因为我能亲眼见证他们的进步。
And it is beautiful to see it always warms my heart because I get to watch the progression in real time.
这对我来说是发自内心的工作。
And it's my heart work.
我特别喜欢看到这样的变化。
I love to see it.
这太棒了。
That's awesome.
对。
Yeah.
他们自己都特别有成就感，这真的特别棒。
They're like proud of themselves and that's really, that's very cool.
明白了。
Okay.
我们常听说养孩子需要全村帮忙，但现在大多数妈妈都是独自育儿，尤其是疫情之后。
So we often hear that it takes a village, but most women are parenting in silos right now, especially post COVID.
我简直没法想象疫情那会儿是什么样子，但这种情况对当妈妈的体验有什么影响呢？
I can't even imagine during COVID, but how does this affect the experience of motherhood?
你具体看到哪些变化了？
Like, what are you what are you seeing from this?
我总是跟妈妈们说，对自己宽容一点，没错，我们总说养孩子要靠全村，但现在的‘全村’已经不一样了。
I always tell moms, give yourself a bit of grace because yes, we always hear it takes a village, but then the village is different.
它不像我们祖母那一代，甚至不像我们母亲那一代的‘全村’。
It's not the village that maybe our grandmothers had or even our mothers had.
我不是说它完全不存在，只是太罕见了。
I'm not gonna say it doesn't exist, it's rare.
所以我总在想，我们能不能自己建一个‘全村’？
And so I always say, can we build a village?
如果我们真把它建起来，会是什么样子？
What would it look like if we built one out?
你觉得你最需要的是什么？
What do you feel like you need?
我们就从这里开始。
And we start there.
我们尽量想出有创意的办法。
We try to be very creative.
也会认真思考这些支持具体该是什么样子。
We try to be very solution oriented of what that might look like.
有时候，线上支持就足够了。
And sometimes it is a lot of virtual care.
比如妈妈们的在线社群。
It is the online mom groups.
还有那些让你觉得‘终于有人懂我了’的App。
Is the different apps where you're just like, I just need people to get it.
因为你不想对着空荡荡的房间大喊，只要能找到志同道合的人，或者遇到合适的心理咨询师，让你有个倾诉的出口，哪怕表面上看起来你还是一个人在撑着。
Cause you don't want to feel like you're screaming into the void, but anytime you're able to find your people or find the right fit with a therapist so that you just have somewhere to where you're not truly in a silo, even if physically you feel like it's just you having an outlet of some sort.
所以我就总在想，如果没法建成完整的支持网络，我们还能做点什么？
So that's why I'm always like, if we can't build out the full village, what can we do?
因为总归是可以做点什么的。
Because you can always do something.
是的。
Yeah.
确实如此。
It's so true.
十年前我们启动的《Lady Gang》播客，后来只是建了个Facebook群组，本来想聊聊节目内容。
The Lady Gang podcast that we started ten years ago, we just started this Facebook group just to chat.
我们以为大家就是来讨论播客的。
We thought it would be like talking about the podcast.
结果不是。
No.
完全不是。
No.
现在全世界的女性都在上面发帖，说我也在经历这样的事。
It has turned into women all over the world posting on there saying, I am dealing with this thing.
对。
Yes.
还有没有人也是这样？
Is anybody else?
感到没那么孤单，这正是社群力量的核心。
And it's just feeling less alone is so much a part of the power of the village.
确实如此。
It's so true.
是的。
Yeah.
我心里其实也这么想，没错。
Because in my mind, I was like, yeah.
那个社群，就是那个愿意帮你接孩子、或者随时能打电话求助的人，但我们并不是总能拥有这样的支持。
The village is the woman who's gonna pick your kid up for you or who you call like, that we don't all have that all the time.
所以它其实可以比这更丰富得多，尽管那本身已经很棒了。
So it is it can be so much more than just that, even though that is awesome.
没错。
Exactly.
如果你有，天哪，真的太幸运了。
If you have it, oh my gosh.
一定要好好珍惜，真的别轻视。
Cherish you're like, cherish it seriously.
但我总觉得，过去那种互助的社区已经很少见了。
But I do feel like the village of olden days is very rare.
现在不会再有住在街角的奶奶了。
You don't have grandma down the street.
也不会有那些姨妈婶婶们了。
You don't have the aunts.
情况已经不一样了。
It's different.
我们现在比以前分散得多了。
We're more spread out than we were before.
确实如此。
So true.
明白了。
Okay.
我们的孩子一直在变化，他们的需求也在变。
Our children are forever changing and their needs change.
他们的独立性也在改变。
Their independence changes.
我们之前稍微提到过这一点。
We kind of touched on this.
你有没有发现很多女性在应对失去掌控感和不断变化的家庭关系时很吃力？
Do you see a lot of women struggling with the lack of control and evolving dynamics?
不过随着孩子长大，这种变化更明显。我刚和一位妈妈聊过，孩子刚上大学，她去参加了新生说明会之类的活动。
I will say as they get older though, that is more of a change because I I was just talking to a mom, a recent empty nester, her child was going to college and she went to, I guess the orientation or whatever.
他们说：好了，家长们，现在亲子关系变了。
And they said, all right now, parents, the relationship is changing.
不再是父母和孩子的关系，而是伙伴关系了。
It's no longer parent child, it's now partnership.
当时我就在想，没错，我确实经历过——这话说得太对了。因为你得学会适当放手，把你的经验传给他们，让他们知道他们不是孤身一人，但你也得学会互相妥协。
And when she, yes, I had it, so I was like, wait, but it was so true because in a sense you have to release that control a bit and you now have to say, okay, I've given you the wisdom and you're not completely alone, but I do have, there has to be more give and take.
不能再说：‘妈妈说了算，就这么办。’
It's not just, okay, well mom said this and this is how we're gonna do it.
现在孩子有自己的主见了。
You now have agency.
他们有了自己的独立性，可以自己做决定了。
You now have your own autonomy to be like.
那一刻我突然明白了。
And so that gave me a light bulb.
哦，原来如此。
I was like, oh, okay.
是的
Yeah.
对
Yeah.
全新的恐惧等级开启了
New new level of fear unlocked.
没错
Yeah.
可不是嘛
No kidding.
天哪
Oh my god.
我经常在想的一件事是，我上大学的时候离开了亚特兰大
That's the thing that I think about all the time is I when I went to college, I left Atlanta.
去了纽约市
I went to New York City.
我当时18岁。
I was 18 years old.
说实话，那时候我根本不知道我妈或我爸在经历什么，也不懂其他人的情况。
I mean, at the time, I had no idea what my mom must have been dealing with or my dad or what anybody.
我特别要强，只有遇到麻烦才会给妈妈打电话。
And I was so fiercely independent, and I really only called my mom in crisis.
我快没钱的时候才会找她。
I called her when I was running out of money.
我和室友吵了架，也会打给她。
I had a fight with my roommate.
我从来不会打电话去告诉她我过得有多好。
It was never to call my mom to tell her how wonderful I was doing.
我就这么打给她，这个可怜的女人，不是哭就是吼，啥情况都有。
So I would call her, this poor woman, and I'd be crying or screaming or whatever.
现在回想起来，我才明白，那时候她就是得随时准备接我的电话。
And I just think back, and I and I'm like, that was her job at that time.
对她来说，这确实不容易，但我希望她明白这份付出的意义。
Unfortunately for her, I hope she knows the value in that.
我现在回想起来，很后悔当时没有多给点积极的态度。
I feel very sorry I didn't have a little bit more positivity sprinkled in there.
但我一直在想，也许正是这些困难，反而给了她一种意义。
But I wonder, and I should ask her, even though that was hard, it still gave her a purpose.
是的。
Mhmm.
而且，这些时刻也让她和我保持着某种联系。
And it still had her connected to me in a way.
对。
Yes.
我真不明白，她是怎么做到的，明明那么辛苦，却还是那个我随时可以打电话的人。
But I don't know how I don't know how she did it where she was still that person that I was calling.
她一定做对了什么，也许正是因为她从不逼我。
She must have done something right, and, it might have been that she wasn't so pushy with me.
她就只是让我
Like, she kinda just let me
自己待着。
The space.
做我想做的事。
Do my thing.
是的。
Yeah.
她给了我空间。
She gave me the space.
对。
Uh-huh.
我也确实关心她了。
And I did, you know, I did give her attention.
可能不是最好的那种方式。
It probably wasn't the best kind.
但他是这样的，这正是我们讨论的内容。
But is he, and that's what we talked about.
孩子永远都需要你。
Your kids are always going to need you.
是的。
Yes.
需要你去陪伴他们。
Need them to.
妈妈可能并不希望这样，但你依然需要她。
Mom might not have wanted that, but you still needed her.
所以这就是我们永远都要承担的责任。
And so that's, that's the thing we're always going to have a job to do.
总有一些事是我们永远不会过时的。
There's always going to be something We'll never be obsolete.
没错。
No.
不是。
No.
谢天谢地。
Thank goodness.
是的。
Yes.
好的。
Okay.
这是我的最后一个问题。
This is my final question.
作为家里第一个打破有毒模式的人。
Being the first in a family to break toxic cycles.
会让人特别累。
It brings a kind of exhaustion.
你会怎么开导那些承担着打破循环重担的女性呢？
And how do you counsel women through the intense emotional labor of being a cycle breaker?
这个问题我经常遇到。
This comes up all the time.
每次都是这样，从不例外。
All of the time without fail.
但每次我给出的建议都是一样的。
But I have to say every single time, my advice stays the same.
你已经努力了，他们却没有。
You have done the work, they have not.
大多数情况下，如果你是那个打破循环的人，你已经去接受过心理咨询，做了各种努力去改变现状——不管之前发生了什么，你扛下了最难的那部分，就是为了让这一切在你这里终结，不再延续下去。
Most of the time, if you are the cycle breaker, you've gone to therapy, you've done the things to change the tides, whatever they have, maybe you did the work, you did the hard stuff so that it stops with you so that it does not repeat.
而另一边的家人，很可能根本没做过这些，甚至一辈子都不会去接受心理咨询。
The person or the family member on the other side of that, they probably have not, and they might not ever go to therapy.
所以你得想清楚，你要怎么和这个人相处？
And so you have to find a way of how do I exist in this relationship?
你真的还希望和这个人保持关系吗？
Do I want to exist in this relationship?
那对我来说具体该怎么做呢？
And what does that look like for me?
你不能指望，你已经做了这么多努力，站到了这个高度，
Cause you can't expect, you've done all this work and you're up here.
却期待对方也能跟你站在同一个地方。
You can't expect them to meet you here.
他们不会的，但这并不影响你已经成为那个打破循环的人，你让这一切在你这里终止，下一代也会因此变得更好。
They're not going to, but that doesn't take away the fact that you have become the cycle breaker, that you have made it stop with you and that the next generation will be better for it.
你的孩子会因此受益。
Your kids will be better for it.
你得清楚一点：我正在带来改变，但他们没有。
And you just have to be aware of, okay, I'm showing up change, but they're not.
那么在这种时刻，我该怎么应对？
So now how do I conduct myself in these moments?
我需要设立哪些界限，才能不把自己拖垮？
What boundaries do I need to put in place so that I am not exhausted?
这样我就不会每次见到那个人，或者任何让你痛苦、触发你情绪的人，都感到压力重重，因为他们的态度不会变。
So that I'm not stressed out every time I see so and so, or whoever the case may be, the cause of your pain or the trigger for you, because it's not going to change.
我知道我的客户不一定爱听这话，但我得说，你已经努力了。
And I know that my clients don't always wanna hear that, but I'm like, you did the work.
他们可没跟你一起接受治疗。
They weren't in therapy with you.
他们没去疗愈这些创伤，是你自己在做这件事。
They weren't, you know, healing all this trauma, you were.
真正有帮助的是，接受现实：事情就是这样，他们永远不会改变。
And it is helpful with just arriving at the place of of accepting this is how it's gonna be, and they will never change.
如果他们真变了，那纯粹是意外。
If they do, it is a surprise.
那算额外的惊喜，而且可能性很低。
It is a bonus, and it's probably not likely.
是的。
Yeah.
但话说回来，如果你一直坐在那儿，盼着某些根本不会改变的事能不一样，说起来容易，做起来难。
But, yeah, if you keep sitting there wishing for something to be different that just is not I mean, it's easier said than done.
我认识很多打破代际循环的第一代人，这条路真的特别艰难，但也特别勇敢，因为大多数人干脆就放弃了。
I have so many friends who are first generation cycle breakers, and it is it's relentless, and it's it's a brave thing to do because most people just say, screw it.
他们都不愿意改变自己，那我凭什么要努力呢？
If they're not gonna work on themselves, why should I?
那就继续这样下去吧。
We'll just keep this whole thing going.
没错。
Exactly.
他们会觉得这太难了，而确实很难。
They're like, this is too hard because it is hard.
这才是关键所在。
That's the part.
这本来就不容易。
It is hard.
但当你熬过这一关，那种感觉真的特别解脱。
But when you come on the other side of it, then it's it's so freeing.
你会忍不住说，哇，真的不一样了。
You're like, oh, wow.
是的。
Yeah.
就像是重获新生。
New lease on life.
你看，现在我能做这件事了。
Look, now I can do this.
现在我能去这个地方了。
Now I can go here.
我不再被困住，觉得人生就只有这一种可能了。
Now I'm not stuck feeling like this is all there is for me.
我觉得这特别美好，但你得记住，你没法带着他们一起走。
And I feel like it's a very beautiful thing, but you have to remember that you can't bring them with you.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
你得对他们报以关爱和一点同理心，但不能太多，免得他们得寸进尺。
It's like you gotta send them love and have a little bit of empathy, but not too much to where they take advantage.
这种平衡确实很难把握。
That's a really hard balance too.
非常难。
Very hard.
因为一旦开始自我疗愈，投入这么多精力，人就会变得更善解人意。
Because becoming therapized and, like, doing all the work, you do become more empathetic and understanding of people.
可当那些人本身还带有毒性的时候，就特别棘手。
And it's really hard when those people are also kind of toxic.
是的。
Yeah.
这就像是，我该怎么跳这支舞呢？
And it's like, how do I do this dance?
真的很难。
It's really tough.
很难。
Hard.
我总是跟我的客户说，他们呢，我也试着把所有方法都教给他们。
And I always tell my clients, and they're like, and I try to tell them this and all the tools.
但我跟他们说，没错，但这些方法都是经过几个月甚至几年的实践才慢慢形成的。
And I was like, yes, but we develop those tools after months of work or after years of work.
你没法把它们打包成一个漂亮的礼物直接送出去，因为他们没走过这条路。
So you can't hand it to them neatly in a bow because they didn't take the journey.
所以他们是不会懂的。
So they're not gonna get it.
他们也不会愿意听进去。
They're not gonna be receptive.
要意识到这一点真的非常难，但你必须走到这一步。
And it's very, very hard to come to that realization, but you have to get to that point.
索妮，你真的让我的一天变得明亮多了，这可是双关语哦。
Well, Sonni, you have really brightened my day, pun intended.
谢谢你今天能来。
And thank you for being here.
我知道这个社群会从中学到很多，也感谢BetterHelp的支持。
I know that this community is gonna take a lot out of this, and thank you to BetterHelp.
在这个过程中，我找不到比你更好的合作伙伴，也找不到比你更棒的赞助方了。
I could not ask for a better partner in all of this and a better sponsor for this whole series.
是的。
Yeah.
能认识你真是太好了。
I just it was great to meet you.
没错。
Yes.
我过得很开心。
I had the best time.
非常感谢你邀请我参加BabyGang。
Thank you so much for having me on the BabyGang.
我太兴奋了。
Thank excited
谢谢你们。
for you guys.
欢迎来到你的第二次亮相。
Welcome to your second rodeo.
哇哦。
Whoo.
也许我很快就会再联系你们。
Maybe reaching out soon.
我在这儿呢。
I'm here.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Good.
好的。
Okay.
不错。
Good.
行吧。
Alright.
谢谢。
Thank you.
不客气。
You're welcome.
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