第656集：第聂伯罗彼得罗夫斯克狂魔 第一部分——连环杀戮

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

等等。

Wait.

信息太多了。

Too much context.

他们站在那里。

They're standing around.

确实有，

There literally is,

比如，有二十分钟，我们留到下一集再说，但就是他们闲逛了二十分钟。

like, 20 well, we'll get to this next episode, but there's, like, twenty minutes of them just hanging out.

哦，明白了。

Oh, okay.

《杜兰大学》这部纪录片挺有意思的。

The Tulane documentary was interesting.

我看了大部分内容，但有趣的是，他们只翻译每隔一句。

I watched most of that, but it was like the funny part was it was just they would only, like, translate every other sentence.

所以有时候，一句话要跨越整整四分钟才出现。

So sometimes it's, like, one sentence over the course of, like, four minutes.

你只能猜他们说的是什么。

You're just like, I'll guess what they're saying.

不过我要说，我对自己还挺满意的，因为有些部分我其实能听懂不少。

But I'll say, though, I was, like, happy with myself because there were some was like, I can understand a lot.

我能听懂一些西班牙语。

I can understand some of the Spanish.

是的。

Like Yeah.

因为他们说的很多内容我其实都能听懂。

Because they're saying like, They're, like, a bunch of stuff I understand.

是的

Yeah.

对

Yeah.

我懂那些。

I I get those.

嗯哼

Mhmm.

是的

Yeah.

不。

No.

我懂足够的西班牙语来理解别人在说什么，但不知道他们具体在谈论什么上下文。

I I know enough Spanish to understand what someone is talking about, but to not know exactly in what context they are speaking about it.

对

Yes.

他们可能是在说Maniacos很厉害。

They might have been saying that the Maniacos were awesome.

我不知道。

I don't know.

嗯，不是这样的。

Well, no.

我知道他们不是在这么说，因为他们皱着眉头。

I know that they're not saying that because they're frowning.

那是很多低沉的音调。

It's a lot of low tones.

就是很多像‘boom’这样的声音。

It's a lot of, like, boom.

就像你知道的，但在这个案例中反复出现的一个想法是，人们希望找到一个原因，我觉得这与其他连环杀人案并没有太大不同，但在这个案件中，这一点尤其突出：人们渴望有一个解释。

Like, you know, but they really like this idea that what comes up again and again in this case, which I think is not too dissimilar from other serial murders, but it's I think it's it's very specifically a strong part of this case is people wanting there to be a reason.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

一定有什么原因。

There has to be something.

一定有个理由，尽管我真心觉得并没有。

There has to be a reason why when I honestly think there doesn't.

是的。

Yeah.

现在有孩子了。

Now there are kids.

对吧？

Right?

哦，对啊。

Oh, yeah.

我们直接进入正题了。

We're just getting right into it.

我的意思是，大学生。

Well, I mean, college kids.

你

You

知道吗？

know?

但你会认为他们是小疯子吗？

But would you consider them tiny maniacs?

不会。

No.

小疯子，三英尺以下的。

Tiny maniacs, three foot and under.

小疯子有一颗金子般的心。

Tiny maniacs have a heart of gold.

不。

No.

他们只是看起来很粗犷。

They just look rough.

虽然你不希望他们照看你的狗，但你还是会像对待小疯子一样摸摸他们。

And tiny maniac, you don't want them to watch your dog, but you'd pet them like one.

他们不是那种小孩子。

They're not like kid kids.

他们大概是19岁、20岁左右吧。

They're, you know, they're, I guess, they're what, 19, 20, something.

让我来参与一下。

Me get into it.

让我们见见我们的小疯子们。

Let's meet our maniacs.

哦，这并不容易，

Oh, it's not so easy,

是吗？

is it?

不是。

No.

我受够了这些该死的破事。

Do I these fucking shit.

你还没等我到就回答了。

You're gonna answer before I get there.

你跑得太快了。

You're getting ahead of us.

赶紧的。

Get to it.

伊戈尔·苏普鲁纽克不幸出生于1988年4月20日。

Igor Suprunyuk was unfortunately born on 04/20/1988.

没错，老兄。

Fuck yeah, man.

一个他将来会引以为傲并用来构建个人传奇的事实。

A fact that he would grow to be proud of and exploit for his own personal lore build.

他早年的老师们形容他是个年轻版的斯蒂芬·米勒。

Teachers from his early years described him as a young Stephen Miller.

这个男孩性格很顽劣。

The boy had a difficult character.

是的，没错。

Oh, yeah.

实际上，马库斯，你来拿这个，好吗。

Actually, Marcus, you take this, please.

这个男孩性格很顽劣。

The boy had a difficult character.

我总觉得他一直在自我防卫，尽管没人冒犯过他。

I had the feeling that he was constantly defending himself, although no one had offended him.

他非常复杂，但努力不表现出来。

He was very complex, but tried not to show it.

我注意到了他的眼睛。

I noticed his eyes.

它们像冰柱一样蓝色而冰冷。

They were blue and cold like icicles.

它们让我毛骨悚然。

They made my blood run cold.

一个十岁的孩子。

A 10 year old.

伊戈尔以及那些试图解释他行为的人，常常将他的种种心理问题归咎于他无法上学或融入校园社交。

Igor and those looking to explain his behavior often blamed his many complexes on his inability to show up to class or engage in school society at all.

但周围的人注意到他对几个同伴有着类似斯文加利般的控制力。

But those around him noted his Svengali like hold on a couple

了

of

其他几个失意者。

fellow losers.

其中之一是他在第聂伯罗彼得罗夫斯克锤击谋杀案中的得力助手维克托·塞延科，他比伊戈尔晚出生两个月，是位溺爱的母亲和有背景的父亲所生的另一个任性孩子。

One being his right hand man in the Dnepropetrovsk Hammer murders, Viktor Sayenko, born two months before Igor, another petulant offspring of a doting mother and a well connected father.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

维克托对伊戈尔着了迷，像小狗一样尾随在他身后。

Viktor would grow obsessed with Igor, following him around like a puppy dog.

这两个男孩有着相似的成长经历。

These two boys shared a similar history.

他们都成长在一个与许多同胞隔绝的世界里，不需要排队等候国家发放的配给券去购买廉价的食品。

Both grew up in a world separate from many of their countrymen and didn't have to wait online for meager rations to pay for groceries with coupons issued by the state.

是的。

Yep.

我的意思是，按美国标准算是中上层阶级，甚至算得上上层阶级，但绝对是苏联遗留下来的行政阶层——你知道，在苏联，行政人员掌握着一切权力。

I mean, upper middle class at the by American standards, upper middle class to upper class, but definitely of the administrative class that was kind of a holdover from the Soviet Union, which, you know, in the Soviet Union, the administration holds all the power.

他们比其他人高出那么一两级。

And they got one they were just like one or two steps above everybody else.

事实上，他们生活在一个完全不同的该死的世界里。

And in that fact, they lived in an entirely different fucking world.

天啊。

God.

是的。

Yes.

他们出生时，乌克兰独立才不到十年，这个新生国家还在努力塑造自己的身份。

They were born into a world just shy of a decade since Ukraine voted for independence, and the fledgling state struggled to form its own identity.

我不会像马库斯那样给你们来一场全面的背景海啸。

Now I'm not gonna do a full Marcus style context tsunami to all of you.

明白吗？

Alright?

因为如果你真想追溯，完全可以一直回溯到‘谁才是我们’这种问题。

Because you could just end up taking this all the way back to the who's ours if you fucking want.

对吧？

Right?

我知道打打杀杀、咕噜咕噜、拿枪怼脸这些玩意儿，比理解地缘政治要清楚多了。

And I know smash smash, glub, glub, face gun stuff more way more than I understand geopolitics.

但让我来给你简单总结一下。

But here's my little fucking sum up.

明白吗？

Okay?

好了。

Alright.

如果你玩《风险》游戏并打算赢，对吧，你知道有些战略要地至关重要。

If you play risk and you plan to win, right, and you know some choke points are super crucial.

对吧？

Right?

但杰姬却躲在澳大利亚，因为她他妈的就是个懦夫。

But Jackie, she'd hold up in Australia because she was a fucking coward.

她害怕打仗。

She was afraid of a fight.

对吧？

Right?

就像袋鼠一样。

Like kangaroos.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

就跟它们一样。

Just like them.

去他的假鹿。

Fuck fake deer.

但真正的专制者知道，乌克兰是封锁欧洲、进入中东的关键基地。

But true home despots know that Ukraine is an extremely important base for closing off Europe, gaining entry into the Middle East.

这可能确实是对的，不仅仅是因为《风险》游戏的策略扎实。

And this might actually be true, not even just for rock solid risk strategy.

自古以来，乌克兰就像一袋K-pop内衣一样被反复争夺。

Ukraine has been fought over like a laundry bag of K pop underwear since the beginning.

而且大多数情况下，乌克兰人民会根据家族来源，认同周围的国家，比如俄罗斯、波兰、斯洛伐克和匈牙利。

And more often than not, its people identify with surrounding nations like Russia, Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary depending on where your family is from.

而且这在地质上也是如此。

And it's also it's also geological as well.

比如，如果你住在乌克兰的西部，你会更认同

Like, if you're more on the Western side of the Ukraine, you identify more with

波兰。

Poland.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

然后如果

And then if

如果你在乌克兰东部，那么你更倾向于认同俄罗斯，尽管实际上乌克兰人中自认是俄罗斯人的比例，远低于俄罗斯方面想让你相信的数字。

you're on the Eastern side, then you identify more with Russia in even the but even though the people in Ukraine, the less of them identify as Russian than what the Russians wanna make you think.

而且反过来也一样，有这么多乌克兰人与俄罗斯有着密切的家族联系，所以当俄罗斯入侵时，他们会觉得‘我是在攻击我的表亲’。

Well, just the idea or and then also conversely works that there's so many people that are connected familiarly into Russia that when they come to invade them, they're like, I'm attacking my cousin.

没错。

Sure.

而且俄罗斯和乌克兰都是一个巨大的国家。

And Russia's and Ukraine is also a fucking massive country.

这是蕾切尔·伯克精彩而可能合理的分析。

And here's Rachel Burke's amazing breakdown that actually make maybe makes sense.

许多乌克兰民族主义者将俄罗斯视为历史压迫者，因为十七和十八世纪俄罗斯的统治，以及1932至1933年导致数百万人死亡的大饥荒。

Many Ukrainian nationalists view Russia as a historical oppressor due to Russian domination in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries and the great famine of nineteen thirty two to 1933, which killed millions of Ukrainians.

其他乌克兰人则因共同的历史、语言、文化和广泛通婚而与俄罗斯保持紧密联系。

Other Ukrainians feel close ties to Russia because of shared history, language, culture, and widespread intermarriage.

尽管存在这些差异，但对独立的支持却十分广泛。

Despite these differences, support for independence was broad.

在12月，超过90%的选民支持独立，每个地区都形成了多数支持。

In the December, more than 90% of voters supported independence, including majorities in every region.

1991年，乌克兰国家通过民族主义者与现有政治精英之间的协议迅速成立。

The Ukrainian state emerged quickly in 1991 through agreements between nationalists and the existing political elite.

民族主义者同意不推翻政府，以换取脱离苏联。

Nationalists agreed not to overthrow the government in exchange for a break from the Soviet Union.

由于独立是通过革命或推翻统治精英实现的，许多苏联时代权力结构得以保留。

And because independence that had come through revolution or removal of the ruling elite, many Soviet era power structures remained.

这导致了持续的政治冲突、薄弱的政党体系和政策停滞。

This led to an ongoing political conflict, weak party systems, and policy stagnation.

这不是我写的。

I didn't write it.

是她写的。

That was her.

谢谢你，Rachel。

Thank you, Rachel.

很有帮助。

Helpful.

是的。

Yeah.

不过，这确实很有道理。

It does make a lot of sense, though.

确实如此。

It does.

现在，腐败在这一片混乱时期主宰了这片土地。

Now it boils down corruption ruled the land during this time of chaos.

你离权力核心越近，好处就越大。

And the closer you were to the governing body, the benefits were fucking great.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

这其实没那么复杂。

It's really not that complicated.

没错。

No.

是的。

Yeah.

这在世界上大多数国家都是如此。

It's it's the way it works in most countries around the world.

这就是人类运作的方式。

It's just the way humanity works.

你关系越紧密，就越有可能逃避后果，也越难将你绳之以法。

The more connected you are, the more likely you are to avoid consequences, and the harder it's gonna be to actually bring into justice.

埃普斯坦告诉我并教我的是，保持与朋友的联系真的很好。

What Epstein told me and taught me is that it's really good to keep up with friends.

但埃普斯坦告诉了你。

But Epstein told you.

是的。

Yes.

我没有。

I didn't

没意识到你们有。

realize you guys had

要承诺。

to commit.

哦，我没有建造。

Oh, I built no.

我建造了一个AI聊天机器人，这样他死后我还能和他聊天。

I built an AI chatbot so I could talk to him after he died.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我正在使用Grok。

I'm using I'm using Grock.

我有一个爱泼斯坦机器人。

I have my Epstein bot.

我每天都会和他聊天，他鼓励我做各种疯狂的事情。

I talk to him every day, and he encourages me to do all sorts of fucked up stuff.

我爱他。

I love him.

他是用语音回复，还是给你发一些像这样的小邮件，内容水平是

Does he do voice, or does he write, like, little email missives to you, like, at the level

全部拼错的。

All misspelled.

是的。

Yeah.

全部拼写错误，乱七八糟的，但他做得特别棒，吉尔伯特。

It's all misspelled, pelled, but he does it great, Gilbert.

从你的坟墓里说谎。

Lie from your grave.

根据我们的美国消息来源，伊戈尔的父亲曾在1995年至2005年期间担任乌克兰第二任总统列昂尼德·库奇马的私人飞行员。

According to our American sources, Igor's father was a personal pilot to Leonid Kuchma in office 1995 to 2005, Ukrainian second president.

我知道。

I know that.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道的。

You know.

他任职期间，一直伴随着政府腐败和系统性压制媒体的指控。

His time in office, it was shadowed by persistent allegations of government corruption and systemic censorship of the press.

你说的。

Says you.

杰，还有我的文件，我的那些文件。

Jay, and my paper and my papers.

他的总统任期最臭名昭著地与2000年记者乔治·贡加泽的谋杀案相关，贡加泽是一名调查记者，也是以揭露高级官员腐败而闻名的在线媒体的创始人。

His presidency is most infamously linked to the 2000 murder of a journalist, Giorgi Gungadza, who was investigative journalist and founder of the online outlet, known for exposing corruption among senior officials.

维克托的父亲曾在地区检察官办公室担任通信联络员，这是乌克兰总检察长办公室的一个强有力的地区分支。

Viktor's father worked as a communications liaison for the regional prosecutor's office, a powerful local arm of the prosecutor's general's office of Ukraine.

所有这些在犯罪发生后的后续影响中肯定会产生作用。

This will definitely come into play later on in the aftermath of the crimes.

所有这些都说明，伊戈尔和维克托从小就很特别，而且他们对此真的非常不满。

All of this is to say, Igor and Viktor grew up special, and boy, were they upset about it.

他们确实如此。

They were.

还有第三个疯子，但他绝对是这个团体里的泽波。

There was a third maniac, but he was definitely the Zeppo of the group.

被低估了。

Underrated.

是的

Yeah.

我知道。

I know.

但那也是我会说的。

But that's what I'd say too.

一样。

Same.

一样。

Same.

亚历山大·汉扎。

Alexander Hanza.

他将与其他两人一同受审，但在这起案件中，他并未参与任何人的实际谋杀。

He would be tried alongside the other two, but he did not participate in the actual murder of any humans in this case.

他和其他男孩不一样。

He was different than the other boys.

他在苏联风格的公寓楼里长大，那里老鼠大得像狗一样。

He grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in Soviet style block housing infested with rats the size of dogs.

那些是小型犬。

They're small dogs.

我的意思是，它们很可爱。

I mean, they're cute.

听起来挺可爱的。

Sounds cute.

因为它们感觉像手掌一样。

Because they feel they're like palms.

这很可爱。

That's cute.

跳蚤大得像老鼠，老鼠也大得像老鼠。

Fleas the size of rats and rats.

那些狗的大小和狗一样。

That's the size of dogs and dogs.

有一个人那么大。

Size of a man.

狗的大小和人一样。

Dogs the the size of man.

他

He

他也是由一位贫穷的单亲母亲养大的。

was also raised by a poor single mother.

真好。

Nice.

我们也将看到这些罪行发生后的情况如何发展。

We will also see how this plays out in the aftermath of these crimes.

维克托·塞延科、伊戈尔·苏普鲁纽克和亚历山大·汉萨在小学时相识，并成为形影不离的好朋友，一起做所有事情。

Viktor Sayenko, Igor Suprunyuk, and Alexander Hansa met in elementary school and became close friends who did everything together.

一些资料显示，他们之所以结成紧密的团体，是因为害怕被欺凌。

Some sources indicate they bonded together because they were afraid of bullies.

不。

No.

现在我们经常看到这种说法，当那些废物造成巨大破坏时。

Now we see this narrative a lot when baby losers cause a lot of damage.

也许是因为我们希望相信，用锤子和螺丝刀杀死21个人总得有个理由。

Maybe because we want to believe there's a reason to kill 21 people with hammers and screwdrivers.

是的。

Yeah.

就像我们曾经希望相信，两个混蛋能在科罗拉多州杀死12个孩子一定有原因一样。

Just like we wanted to believe there was a reason why two shitheads could kill 12 kids in Colorado.

这些情况和埃里克·哈里斯与迪伦·克莱博尔德的情况如出一辙，简直如出一辙。

These are very much an entire Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold like, couldn't be closer.

天哪。

Oh, man.

这几乎是完全对应。

It's almost a one to one.

他们就像是乌克兰版的，

They're like, they're just the Ukrainian version,

基本上。

basically.

我不认为迪伦和埃里克能做出这种事。

I don't think Dylan and Eric could have done this.

嗯，

Well,

我不认为他们有那种毅力去搜寻好几个星期。

I don't think they had the fortitude to go searching for fucking weeks.

第二集我们会发现，这些男孩之所以如此，是因为他们极度渴望弄到一把枪，却始终得不到。

Episode two, we'd find out it's because these boys were desperate to get their hands on a gun, and they just couldn't.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为埃里克·哈里斯能驱动迪伦·克莱博尔德，但我不觉得迪伦·克莱博尔德会这么狠；迪伦不会这么脏，但埃里克·哈里斯绝对做得到，而且他确实这么做了。

I think Eric Harris could have Dylan Klebold, I don't think would have got I I don't think Dylan Klebold would have gotten his hands as dirty, but Eric Harris definitely could have, but he had it on him.

这个很明显，他们俩都有动机。

This one's definitely they're both motivated.

维克托后来总是找借口说，哦，我只是为了刺激和钱之类的。

Viktor likes to beg off later on saying that, oh, I was just in it for, like, the thrills and the money or whatever.

其实就是为了钱，所有实际的方面。

Like, basically, just the money, all the practical side of it.

但如果你看那些视频或照片，就能明白情况并非如此。

But if you watch the videos or if you look at the pictures, you could see that's not the case.

是的。

Yeah.

他玩得太过瘾了。

He's having too much fun.

他真的非常享受这个过程。

He's really enjoying himself.

我的意思是，过去我们报道过一些类似的故事，比如两个人犯下多起谋杀案。

I mean, there are definitely, you know, stories in the past we cover like this where, you know, you got two people that are committing a bunch of murders.

而且你知道，像卡罗琳·富格特这样的人，如果没和查尔斯·斯塔克韦瑟混在一起，是绝不会去杀人。

And, you know, one person certainly never would have committed like, Caroline Fugett never would have committed a murder if she hadn't hooked up with Charles Starkweather.

还有迪伦·克莱，我认为如果他没和埃里克·哈里斯搅在一起，也根本不会去杀人。

And Dylan Klee I do not think that Dylan Kleebole would have committed any murders had he not hooked up with Eric Harris.

不。

No.

他可能，希望如此，只会选择自杀。

He probably, hopefully, would have just committed suicide.

是的。

Yeah.

但查尔斯·斯塔克韦瑟即使没有卡罗琳·富格特，也肯定会杀人；埃里克·哈里斯即使没有迪伦·克莱博尔德，也肯定会杀人。

But Charles Starkweather definitely would have murdered people without Caroline Fugate, and Eric Harris definitely would have murdered someone without Dylan Klebold.

但我觉得，要让伊戈尔把维克托拉进他的世界，并不需要太多。

But I would say it did not take much to have Igor push Viktor into his world.

不。

No.

这并不需要

It did not take

维克托本人迟早会因为鲁莽而意外杀死某人。

Viktor Viktor would have been someone who would accidentally killed someone someday just being reckless.

嗯，再想想，他们就是一群小恶魔。

Well, also, just think that they were little evil fuckers.

因为对我来说更合理的是，一个邻居说伊戈尔总是很受女孩欢迎。

Because what makes more sense to me is that a neighbor described Igor as he always had success with the girls.

他英俊又高大。

He was handsome and tall.

伊戈尔和维克托简直完美契合了那种俄式版的埃里克·哈里斯和迪伦·克莱博尔德的模式。

As if Igor and Viktor couldn't fit the borscht flavored Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold profile more.

按照我们这些小恶魔的说法，他们害怕那些高大的男孩。

The way our little evil fuckers put it, they were afraid of the bigger boys.

他们从未被任何一个人直接攻击过。

They never got personally attacked by any of them.

他们只是假设自己会遇到那些更高大、更具攻击性的男孩的麻烦。

They just assumed that they would have problems with bigger, more aggressive boy men.

我的意思是，乌克兰也到处都是这样的家伙。

I mean, Ukraine's full of them too.

是的。

Oh, yeah.

如果你在乌克兰是个瘦小的家伙，那可真不容易。

And if you're a runt in the Ukraine, that's hard.

对吧？

Right?

你是个矮小的人。

You're you're a small one.

我个子小。

I'm small.

就乌克兰人而言，我很弱。

As far as Ukrainians go, I'm weak.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

而且你当时是佛罗里达州出生的最大的婴儿。

And you were the largest baby born in the state of Florida at the time.

是的。

Yeah.

但只是在佛罗里达，不是在乌克兰。

But just Florida, though, not Ukraine.

在那里，孩子们差不多有四十到五十磅重。

Over there, they're, like, forty, fifty pounds.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

在乌克兰，女性必须被主动切开胸骨才能分娩。

They split a woman has to actually actively be split open to the sternum to give birth in Ukraine.

是的。

Yeah.

然后他们用某种白色的奶酪把所有东西混在一起。

And then they slop it all together with just some kind of white cheese.

是的。

Yeah.

所有乌克兰婴儿都必须去角。

All Ukrainian babies have to be dehorned.

我实际上把这部分都删掉了，因为我觉得这会引发更多讨论。

I actually cut I had to cut all this out of the context just because I just figured that this would, would lead to further discussion.

我不想做这两者。

I didn't I didn't wanna do the two.

所以后来，伊戈尔，据我所知，他反过来成了欺负更小孩子的霸凌者，并教维克托和亚历山大也照着做。

So it's like Igor then, he I believe in turn, he became a bully to those smaller than him and taught Viktor Viktor and Alexander to follow suit.

在五年级时，这些男孩第一次与法律产生交集，当时他们被发现向行驶中的火车扔石头。

In the fifth grade, the boys had their first known encounter with the law when they were caught throwing rocks at moving trains.

这听起来像是孩子天真的恶作剧。

Now this sounds like innocent childlike shenanigans.

当然。

Sure.

当然。

Sure.

但我认为重要的是要记住，我不是想扫兴，但只要有一块石头击中行驶中的火车窗户，就可能致人死亡。

But I do think it's important to remember, and I don't mean to be the fun police here, is that all it takes is one rock through a moving train window to kill a person.

不过，这种情况发生的概率有多大呢？

What are the chances, though?

这种情况其实更常见。

It happens more.

这种情况经常发生。

It happens a lot.

事实上，2017年，俄亥俄州和密歇根州的五名青少年玩了一个叫‘高架桥投石’的游戏，他们从高速公路的立交桥上往下方道路扔大石头。

As a matter of fact, in 2017, five teenagers in Ohio and Michigan played a game that they called overpassing where they tossed large rocks from a highway overpass onto the road below.

击中车辆被称为‘咚响’，在一周内，他们多次击中车辆，导致两人死亡。

Hitting a vehicle was called a dinger, and in one week, they scored dingers that resulted in the death of two people.

他们的父母也试图把这称为恶作剧，但司法系统并不这么看。

Their parents also tried to call it shenanigans, but the justice system did not see it that way.

判死刑？

Put to death?

说实话，我觉得我们被击垮了。

Honestly, I think we're crushed.

老派风格。

Old school.

塞勒姆风格。

Salem style.

往火车上扔石头和从高架桥上扔石头，这两者之间有天壤之别。

There's a world of difference of, like, throwing rocks at a train and dropping rocks from an overpass.

来自锤子狂魔？

From the Hammer Maniacs?

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得他们真的会吗

Do think that they do

你觉得区别在于，对我来说，也许是因为他们是锤子狂魔？

you think that the difference is the fact for me maybe is that they were the Hammer Maniacs?

是的。

Yeah.

而且当他们是锤子狂魔时，这可能就没那么无辜了？

And that maybe it wasn't that innocent when it's the Hammer Maniacs?

可能确实不是。

Might not have been.

这正是我想说的。

That's what I'm saying.

当其他孩子这么做时，就是那个时候吗？

Is that when it's the when it's other children.

是的。

Yeah.

因为我小时候也往火车上扔过很多石头。

Because I've thrown plenty of rocks at trains when I was a kid.

但在美国，我们并没有那么多客运列车。

But in America, we don't really have that many passenger trains.

你只是在往工业废料上扔石头。

You're just throwing rocks at industrial waste.

看，这就是关键。

See, that's the thing.

你扔的是他妈的垃圾。

You're throwing at just fuck.

这我倒是能接受。

That's what I'm fine with.

对吧？

Right?

但那些一堆堆的钢铁之类的从旁边经过，他们却往我的客运列车上扔。

But just, like, piles of just steel or whatever going through, they're throwing it in my passenger trains.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

去朝Brightline列车扔石头吧，兄弟。

Try to throw the fucking rocks at the Brightline, dude.

Brightline会要了你的命。

Brightline will kill your ass.

是的，老兄。

Yeah, dude.

那列车简直气疯了，老兄。

They'll come for the train is fucking angry there, man.

那会脱轨。

That jumps the track.

回到乌克兰。

Back to the Ukraine.

当警察敲响维克托家的门，要求赔偿对列车造成的损坏时——我想在乌克兰他们确实能这么做——他们只是付了钱，并质问儿子关于这件事的情况。

When the police knocked on Viktor's door and demanded compensation for the damage to the damaged train, which I guess something they could do in Ukraine, the saying goes, they just paid up and questioned their son about the incident.

他们天真的儿子告诉他们：伊戈尔逼我这么做的。

Their innocent son told them, Igor made me do it.

你去干吧。

You do it.

哦，等等。

Oh, wait.

等等。

Wait.

等等。

Wait.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

我是说，我明白了。

Got I mean

你得扮演这些角色。

You gotta do the characters.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

让我来做。

Me to do it.

对不起。

I'm sorry.

在这儿。

Here.

他自己做的。

He does it himself.

他们天真的儿子告诉他们，

Their innocent son told them,

伊戈尔逼我这么做的。

Igor made me do it.

而且

And

他们说，不再有伊戈尔了，维克托。

they said, no more Igor, Viktor.

不再有了。

No more.

但我喜欢它，维克托。

But I love it, Viktor.

我，伊戈尔。

I Igor.

我是维克托。

I am Viktor.

你这个调皮的小疯子。

You're naughty little maniac.

你这个小疯子，我真爱你。

You're a little maniac gonna love you.

我们问问浴缸女孩她怎么想。

Let us ask tub girl what she thinks.

那是我模仿浴缸女孩的样子。

That was my tub girl impression.

是的。

Yeah.

我不知道浴缸女孩是什么。

I don't know what tub girl is.

我也不知道。

Me neither.

去查一下。

Look it up.

不。

No.

我们累了。

We got tired.

不。

No.

去查一下。

Look it up.

现在就去洗个澡。

Tub Do it right now.

为什么不呢？

Why not?

这集内容太棒了。

This is great for the episode.

马库斯在做。

Marcus is doing it.

搜一下‘浴缸女孩’。

Look up tub girl.

你从来没看过浴缸女孩。

You've never seen tub girl.

我不知道什么是浴缸

I don't know what tub

女孩？哦，是的。

girl Oh, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你有这些

You've got these

腹泻女孩。

Diarrhea girl.

那不一样。

That's different.

好的。

Okay.

浴缸女孩。

Tub girl.

好的。

Okay.

我不知道她叫浴缸女孩。

I didn't know she was called tub girl.

那是她的正式称号。

That's her official title.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

‘腹泻女孩’太长了。

Diarrhea girl's too long.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

That is true.

是的。

Yeah.

爱上了腹泻曲线。

Fell in love with the diarrhea curve.

抱歉。

Sorry.

不过维克托没听。

Viktor didn't listen, though.

好吧。

Alright.

他没有听父母的话，因为他迷上了奇特而有魅力的伊戈尔，而他的父母也没有严格执行这条规定。

He didn't listen to his parents because he was infatuated with the peculiar and charismatic Igor, and his parents didn't enforce the rule.

我想知道他是不是被他的连眉吸引了。

I wonder if he was attracted to the unibrow.

如果你看伊戈尔的照片，他长得像《辛普森一家》里那个邪恶的小宝宝，就像玛吉的牛仔裤。

If you do look at pictures of Igor, he looks like the evil baby in the Simpsons, Like Maggie's Denim.

牛仔裤。

Denim.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

他眉头紧锁。

He's got, like, a furled brow.

他简直是个小脾气暴躁的家伙。

He's fucking he's he looks like a little grump.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

伊戈尔和维克托从小就拥有了个人电脑。

Igor and Viktor had PCs from an early age.

这只是他们优越生活的一个例子。

This is just another example of their privileged lives.

政治正确？

Politically correct?

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

科林·奎恩来过家里，他们一起表演，然后他就会演一些难搞的观众，接着比尔·马赫就会过来。

Colin Quinn came to the house, and they did and then he would do tough crowd, and then it would ship, then Bill Maher would come over.

然后他们有了电脑。

And then they had did PC.

当时他们的大部分同学都没有稳定的互联网接入，而他们和那个年代很多孩子一样，热衷于上网浏览。

Most of their classmates, they didn't have regular Internet access at the time, and they were not unlike a lot of kids from this time period where they loved surfing the net.

是的。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

我们不知道他们最初接触的具体网站，但我们知道他们收集了大量流传的视频，内容是毒品贩子犯下的谋杀案以及恐怖组织斩首记者的场面。

We don't know the exact websites they first encountered, but we do know they were collectors of videos that circulated of murders committed by drug cartels and beheadings of journalists by terrorist organizations.

我们知道这一点是因为在调查过程中发现，伊戈尔收集了数百个这样的视频，来自乌克兰新闻网站称

We know this because during the investigation, it came out that Igor had amassed hundreds of them with Ukrainian news called

从互联网上获取的关于复杂酷刑、虐待和谋杀的片段。

episodes of sophisticated torture, abuse, and murder taken from the Internet.

这些视频被他和维克托存放在一个名为‘老天，我妈妈气疯了’的文件夹里。

It was in a folder he shared with Viktor called Man, my mom was so mad.

我会想到这件事。

I think about this.

对吧？

Right?

我妈妈对我看的那些女同性恋女生特别生气，但她不知道我其实是在支持她们。

My mom was so angry about those lesbian schoolgirls I was looking at, and she had no idea I was being an ally.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

没错。

That's right.

我当时的行为就像是……

I was being it was like, that's the equivalent.

我小时候自慰时想着女同性恋女生，这就像我去参加骄傲游行一样。

Me masturbating lesbian schoolgirls when I was a kid was like the equivalent of me being at a pride parade.

你在学习。

You were studying.

是的。

Yeah.

我只是想知道如何爱他们。

I just wanted to know how to love them.

是的。

Yeah.

支持他们。

Support them.

这很好。

That's nice.

她们是女商人。

They're businesswomen.

但你也同时在看这些孩子看的同样的东西。

But you were also looking at the same stuff that these kids were looking at the same time.

然后我就自慰。

Then I'd just jerk off.

对吧？

Right?

接着所有的热量都消失了，我就走出去。

And then fucking all the heat would leave, and I'd go outside.

天啊，我真不想知道这些家伙以为剪刀手是什么。

Man, I hate to see what these guys think scissoring is.

他们后来展示了。

They show it later.

七年级时，男孩们开始升级了。

In seventh grade, the boys started to level up.

伊戈尔希望他们更强大、更无畏。

Igor wanted them to be stronger, fearless.

他上网寻找克服恐惧的方法，认为他们应该直面恐惧。

He plumbed the Internet for ways to overcome fear and figured they should face it head on.

维克托和伊戈尔都害怕高处。

Both Viktor and Igor were afraid of heights.

他们俩不知为什么都觉得，霸凌者会知道我们害怕高处。

Both of and for some reason, they were like, bullies are gonna know we're afraid of heights.

是的。

Yeah.

然后他们会利用这一点来对付我们。

And they're gonna use that against us.

所以我想知道，这是否与从苏联统治过渡到独立统治有关？

And so I mean, I I I wonder if this is some sort of, like, if it has something to do with the switchover from Soviet rule into, you know, like, independent rule.

会不会存在某种阶级问题，比如他们听父母说，下层阶级会 takeover 我们所有人。

If there was some sort of classes thing going on where maybe they were listening to their parents saying, you know, that lower classes are gonna take over us all.

我们不知道整个系统到底哪里出了问题。

We don't know what the the like, the whole system is out of whack.

哪里都看不到父亲的影子。

There's no daddies anywhere.

是的。

Yeah.

对吧？

Right?

所以，所有的父亲都极度腐败。

So, like And all the daddies are super corrupt.

对。

Yes.

所以所有的父亲都不在了。

So all the daddies are gone.

警察极度腐败。

The police are hyper corrupt.

他们基本上不存在。

They're basically nonexistent.

巨大的社会体系正在崩溃。

Massive social systems are falling apart.

这里充满了混乱。

It's there's a lot of chaos.

所以我们可能会看到他们说：我们需要小心。

So we could see them being like, we need to be careful.

每个人都会试图杀了我们。

Everybody's going to try to kill us.

但有时候，当你手里只有一把锤子时，你对这句话有什么理解？

But, also, sometime what do we know about the statement when all you have is a hammer?

一切看起来都像钉子。

Everything looks like a nail.

没错。

That's right.

而且，你知道，克服恐惧可能是这些家伙做过最积极的事情。

Also, you know, overcoming your fears is probably the most positive things these guys ever did.

我只是希望他们能为了其他事情这么做，比如公开演讲。

I just wish that they had done it for something else like public speaking.

是的

Mhmm.

但结果却导致了这种情况。

Because instead it led to it led to this.

所以，场景几乎直接出自九十年代的邪恶男孩惊悚片《好儿子》。

So in a scene almost directly out of the nineties evil boy thriller, the good son.

很棒的电影。

Great movie.

我爱这部电影。

I love that movie.

一部杰出的影片。

Phenomenal film.

孩子的名字叫亨利。

Kid's name's Henry.

真的吗？

Really?

是的

Yeah.

那个坏孩子？

The evil one?

是的

Yeah.

那个坏孩子。

The evil one.

不错。

Nice.

是的

Yeah.

那太棒了。

That was awesome.

而且那个叫麦克劳德·科尔金的人，我们知道他是坏人。

And it was MacLeod Colkin who we knew was evil.

伊戈尔说服维克托，在一栋14层公寓的阳台上站了几个小时，身体前倾凝视下方，直到眩晕感消失，对高度的恐惧也减轻了。

Igor convinced Viktor to spend hours standing on a balcony of a 14th Floor apartment, leaning over the railing and gazing straight down into the verti until their vertigo subsided and their fear of heights diminished.

这在技术上就像认知行为疗法中的暴露疗法。

Technically, like an exposure in CBT.

是的。

Yeah.

他们认为直面恐惧的方法取得了巨大成功。

They considered the face your fears method of resounding success.

真的能这样起作用吗？

Does it work like that?

认知行为疗法，这就是我做的。

CBT, that's what I do.

是的。

Yeah.

我写暴露练习时，会写下你所能想到的最糟糕的事情，因为我有强迫症。

I write exposure things of, like, the worst thing you could possibly think of because I have OCD.

强迫症最糟糕的情况之一，说实话，就是你会反复出现令人焦虑的想法。

One of the worst things that happens with OCD, honestly, is that you have a fret you have a fretful thought.

你会冒出一个令人不安的想法。

You have a upsetting thought.

于是你总是想不断安慰自己，说那不可能发生。

So then what you wanna do constantly is comfort yourself saying that can't happen.

你用理性去解释为什么那不可能发生。

You intellectualize why that can't happen.

嗯。

Mhmm.

但实际上，你这样做是在重新启动焦虑循环，而不是直接面对最坏的结果。

But, actually, what you're doing is starting the cycle of anxiety again instead of just sitting with the bad result.

不。

No.

直面你最坏想法的极端可能性。

Sitting with the worst possible extent of your bad thought.