胜利与连接的艺术

我是约翰·奎因，这里是《法律颠覆者》。

This is John Quinn, and this is LawDisrupted.

今天，我们邀请到了同名公司Prosek的珍·普罗塞克。

And today we're talking to Jen Prosek of the eponymous firm Prosek.

Prosek是一家，我想说是一家传播公司，但实际上，我觉得这个说法并不能充分展现珍和她所做的事情。

Prosec is a, I'm gonna say communications firm, although actually I don't think that does justice to Jen and what she does.

在我看来，她在这方面是顶尖的。

I think at what she does, to my mind, she's the best there is.

但对于我们的听众中可能有一些人，虽然听说过珍，但并不熟悉你或你的公司。

But for those in our audience, there may be some, who knows Jen, that aren't familiar with you or your firm.

也许我们可以先请你简单介绍一下Prosek是做什么的。

Maybe we could start out with you just giving a just short thumbnail sketch of what Prosec is.

你具体是做什么的？

What is it that you do?

当然。

Sure.

谢谢你的美好赞誉。

Thank you for that lovely compliment.

Prosek 很可能是全球专注于市场营销传播和声誉管理的最大公司，主要服务金融机构和投资者，尽管我们也在医疗科技和其他领域开展业务。

Prosec is likely the largest firm globally that focuses on marketing communications and reputation management, primarily for financial institutions and investors, although we work in health care technology and other sectors too.

但金融一直是我们的强项。

But finance has always been our claim to fame.

所以，我的意思是，据我所知，Prosek 在我的经验中根本没有真正的竞争对手。

So, I mean, I know you don't really there are no peers for Prosec in my experience.

但人们有时肯定会问你，你的主要竞争对手是谁？

But if people you must get asked sometimes, who who are your principal competitors?

你会怎么说呢？

Who would you say?

以便让听众对你的市场定位有个大致了解。

Just so people have some kind of understanding of your place in the marketplace.

可能不同行业的情况也有所不同。

Maybe it's probably different probably different for different verticals.

是的。

Yeah.

这取决于你从哪一扇门进来。

It depends what door you come in.

你知道，如果你想要品牌重塑，还是应对危机，竞争格局是不一样的。

You know, if you want a rebrand versus a crisis, you kind of different kinds of competition.

但总的来说，在传播领域，我们最常遇到的竞争者是 Brunswick、Neo FGS 和 Joel Frank 那一伙人，约翰，当我们处理特殊状况或诉讼时，最常见的就是这些人。

But I would say in general, in the communications world, it's the Brunswick to Neo FGS, Joel Frank kind of crew that we see most certainly, John, when we're dealing with special situations or or lawsuits, that's that's the crew that we're seeing the most.

对。

Right.

当然，我们双方业务重叠的地方通常是在与诉讼相关的事务上。

And and of course, where we our paths cross tends to be in litigation related matters.

我们都明白，公众舆论法庭就像真实法庭一样存在。

We all know the court of public opinion is a thing just like It is.

法院里的法院。

The court in the court.

审判和诉讼在公众领域展开。

Trials play out, litigations try out in the public sphere.

这现在是一个不争的事实，我们都明白。

That's a truism now, we all know that.

你做过很多这类工作。

And you've done a lot of that kind of work.

也许这是一个很好的起点，让我们听听你对处理客户事务时的见解或方法——当你与客户、律师合作，应对一场高度公开的争议时。

Maybe just that might be a good place to begin, to give us your thoughts or approaches to assignments where you're working with a client, you're working with some lawyers in what's a very public dispute.

是的。

Yeah.

总的来说，我简单列举几条我想到的要点。

So I think in general, I'll just run down a few of the things that come to mind.

首先是协同一致。

First is alignment.

律师和传播人员必须步调一致。

You know, the lawyers and the communicators have to be in lockstep.

他们必须达成一致的战略。

They have to have a strategy that they agree on.

如果律师和公关人员的想法不一致，这其实并不好，但这非常重要。

It's not really good if the lawyers think one thing and the PR people think another, but that's really important.

我认为制定一个有纪律的战略很重要，你知道，在24小时不间断的新闻周期中，一切发生得如此迅速，很容易被这种速度牵着走。

I think having a disciplined strategy, you know, I think there's a lot of temptation in a twenty four seven news cycle where everything's happening so fast to operate at that level of speeds.

但有时候你必须放慢脚步，好好讨论你的战略，保持自律，而不是一味追求速度。

But sometimes you have to play really slow down, talk about your strategy, and be disciplined versus just speedy.

我认为，在当今世界，人们往往倾向于做点什么，而不是什么都不做。

I think there is a tendency to wanna do something versus not do something in today's world.

我的合伙人安迪总是说，别自己跳进监狱，也就是说，避免不必要的发言。

My partner, Andy, always says, you know, don't break into jail, you know, limiting unnecessary talking.

我们的许多客户正是因为说得太多而自己跳进了监狱。

Many of our clients do break into jail by saying too much.

你要理解与媒体打交道的规则：什么时候该反击，什么时候不该反击，什么时候该沉默，什么时候不该沉默，什么时候该说‘无可奉告’，什么时候不该说‘无可奉告’。

You know, understanding the rules of the road with the media, when to fight back, when not to fight back, when to be silent, not to be silent, when to say no comment, when not to say no comment.

你公开所做的每一件事都会形成一种印象，而这些印象会永远存在。

Everything you do publicly will create a perception and those perceptions go on forever.

你知道，你可能赢得官司，却输掉声誉。

You know, than I do, you can win a case and lose your reputation.

这两件事并不总是一致的。

Those two things don't always go together.

因此，要记住声誉的修复需要很长时间，必须非常有策略地应对那些关键的时刻。

So remembering that reputations take a long time to heal, just being very strategic, preparing for the obvious moments that matter.

我们即将提交一份会引发关注的文件。

We're going to file something that's a trigger.

我们即将采取一项会引发关注的行动。

We're going to do something that's a trigger.

因此，要清楚哪些时刻至关重要。

So knowing the moments that matter.

在当今世界，相比过去，更要牢记声誉的持久性，了解大型语言模型对你的评价，理解它们如何运作、如何被影响，以及你的声誉在这一世界中如何被固化，这比以往任何时候都更重要，因为如果我不认识约翰·奎因，而是在去开会的路上，我可能会问我的高级聊天助手。

And then really, think in today's world, more than yesterday's world, back to that reputations last a very long time, what large language models say about you and understanding how they work, how they're influenced, how they're how your reputation is fixed in that world is more important than ever because I don't know if I didn't know John Quinn and I was walking to a meeting, I'd be asking my premium chat.

我的意思是，这很有趣。

I mean, that's interesting.

我实际上从来没想过这一点。

I've actually never thought of that.

你能改变或影响某个客户的大语言模型输出吗？

Can you change or influence the output of a large language model on one of your clients?

如果可以，你该怎么做呢？

And if so, how do you how do you do that?

听好了，这个行业里的每个人都在试图弄清楚算法是如何运作的？

Now listen, everyone in the business is trying to figure out how do the, how does the algorithm work?

这个算法和谷歌的算法有什么不同？

How does the algorithm work versus Google?

有一些公司专门做这件事，赚了数百万甚至数十亿美元。

There are firms that make millions and billions be they, that's all they do.

但总的来说，我总是说，在面对大语言模型或谷歌时，进攻是最好的防御。

But in general, I always say an offense is a good defense when it comes to a large language model or Google.

所以，如果你不向机器输入关于你的积极、相关且重要的新闻，机器就会吸收任何在网上能找到的内容。

So for instance, if you're not feeding the machine positive, relevant, momentous news about you, the machine is sucking up whatever's out there.

因此，你可以通过制定积极的内容策略来获得一定的控制权。

So you can have some control by having a positive content program.

你还可以理解大型语言模型是如何排名、选择哪些内容的。

You can also understand what large language models, how they rank, what they picked.

第三方媒体总是排名很高，就像在谷歌上一样。

Now third party media is always ranked really high just like it is on Google.

所以这真的很重要。

So that really matters.

是的，我们确实是。

And we're we're yeah.

我们这里谈的不是搜索引擎优化。

We're not talking about search engine optimization here.

我们谈的是大型语言模型的输出。

We're talking about the output from LLMs.

是的。

Yes.

但你知道，它们的工作方式有点相似，又有所不同。

But, you know, they work a little bit the same where they work differently.

当你向你的大语言模型提问时，你是在问一个非常具体的问题，而机器则试图回答这个具体问题。

When you go to your LLM, you're asking a very specific question, and the machine's trying to answer that very specific question.

因此，它会提取能够回答这个具体问题的内容。

So it's gonna pull the content that answers that very specific question.

你在使用谷歌时不会经常这样做。

You don't do that as much with Google.

对吧？

Right?

如果我问：约翰·奎恩上过哪所学校？他得的是A吗？

If I said, where did John Quinn go to school and did he get a's?

这是一个非常具体的问题。

That's a very specific question.

它会从任何能找到的地方提取信息。

It's gonna pull from wherever it can pull from.

所以我认为，从更广泛的角度来看，内容更重要。

So I would say content matters a little more writ large.

所以如果我从你的领英账号提取，它可能会从第三方媒体中提取。

So if I pull from your LinkedIn, it might pull from third party media.

如果我从你公开发布的一封信中提取。

If I pull from a letter you wrote somewhere publicly.

所以我认为这是一个更加动态的环境。

So I think it's a more dynamic universe.

是的。

Yeah.

但总的来说，纠正Right上不良内容的唯一方法是。

But in general, the only way to fix bad things on Right.

用大量优质内容淹没该区域，随着时间推移压制那些不良内容。

Is to flood the zone with good things suppress those bad things over time.

我以前从没和任何人讨论过这个话题，我觉得这非常有趣。

That's that's I've never discussed this topic with anyone before, I think that's I think that's super interesting.

你能给我们举一个你参与过的沟通活动、策略或案例吗？

Can you give us an example of a communications campaign or strategy or episode, something that you are involved in?

可能是诉讼，也可能是其他事情，比如重新品牌定位或声誉管理，你认为其中有一个非常成功的案例，你觉得自己确实产生了影响——当然你可能不能提到名字，也不想提名字。

It could be a litigation or could be something else, rebranding or reputation management, where you think, and you probably can't mention names, don't wanna mention names, which you thought was a big success, where you really thought you were able to make a difference.

你能给我们举个例子吗？让我们了解一下你平时做什么，以及

Can can you give us an example just giving us a a flavor of what you do and and what the

结果是什么？

outcomes be?

我会选一个相对安全的例子，因为它是公开的。

I'm gonna pick something relatively safe because it's relatively public.

当我回顾我的职业生涯时，哪些案例最有趣呢？

And I, you know, when I think over my career, what are some of the most interesting cases?

这不是一场诉讼，但我认为它很有相关性。

This is not a litigation, but I think it it it's relevant.

多年前，大概是十七年前，我们遇到了一家叫桥水的公司。

So, years ago, maybe seventeen years ago, we met a firm called Bridgewater.

他们并不太公开。

They were not very public.

他们非常低调。

They were very under the radar screen.

当时，他们有着非常独特的企业文化。

And what was happening was they had a very, very specific culture.

并不是每个人都认同这种文化。

And not everyone agreed with that culture.

这非常有争议。

It's very controversial.

他们有争议的文化开始被公众所知。

And it started to become public, their controversial culture.

为了让人们了解，桥水的创始人、长期首席执行官、董事长兼首席投资官雷·达利奥，其管理的资产一度高达1600亿美元，是全球最大的对冲基金。他建立了一种非常独特的文化：他们会录像会议，员工实时互相评分，评估彼此在会议中的发言和贡献，录像会被回放审查，每个人都有一个所谓的‘棒球卡’，始终被同事根据各种指标进行排名，比如你的表达能力如何、是否富有同理心等等，每个人都有一张被排名的棒球卡。

Just so people know, Ray Dalio, who was the founder and longtime CEO and chairman and CIO of Bridgewater, which had at one time had 160,000,000,000 under management, was the largest hedge fund in the world, had a very unique culture where, you know, they videotaped meetings, people graded each other in real time, scored their contributions in meetings, what they said, meanings were reviewed, tapes were reviewed, everybody had a so called baseball card, you know you were always being ranked by your colleagues on you know various metrics, how good are your expression, are you empathetic, are you whatever, and everybody had a baseball card that you were ranked.

他称这种文化为极端透明。

It was a culture he called radical transference.

没错。

That's right.

我对这个非常熟悉，他写了一本叫《原则》的书，而且我们确实与雷合作过，他是个非常有趣的人。

I'm very familiar with this And he's written a book called principles and and actually we've done we've done work with Ray, who's a fascinating individual.

但没错，这是一种极具争议的文化。

But yes, this was a highly controversial culture.

是的。

Yes.

所以是极端真实与透明。

So radical truth and transparency.

在那个时候，如果你经营对冲基金、私募股权公司或投资银行，你不会公开任何事情。

So this was at a time where if you were running a hedge fund or a private equity firm or investment bank, you were not public about anything.

你都是低调行事的。

You were under the radar.

这就是它的运作方式。

That's just the way it worked.

我们见到了雷和他的同事，他说：你们觉得我们该怎么做？

And we met Ray and his colleagues, and he said, what do you think we should do about this?

我们说：你们应该主动讲述自己的文化故事，因为这太独特、太引人入胜、太令人着迷了，而且它带来了全球最佳的投资回报。

And we said, we think you should go on the front foot with your culture story because it's so unique and so fascinating and so titillating, and it leads to the best investment returns in the world.

别忘了，至少目前是这样。

Let's not forget that, at least at the moment.

而且，我们认为世界会对此感到着迷，你们应该掌握自己的叙事权。

And, we think the world will be fascinating and you should take control of your own narrative.

为什么任由他人撰写可能负面的故事，而你们自己却不去讲述这种文化为何如此独特呢？

Why would you let others write potentially negative stories when you could tell the story of why this culture is so unique?

也许不适合所有人，但非常有效。

Not maybe not for everyone, but very effective.

于是雷采纳了这个建议，开始以自己的方式讲述他的文化故事。

So Ray took that on board and went out and started to tell his culture story his way.

你刚刚就说出来了。

And you just you just said it.

世界变得着迷了。

The world became fascinated.

这就是你知道它的原因。

This is why you know about it.

如此着迷。

So fascinated.

你知道，我们把雷带上过舞台。

You know, we took Ray on stages.

我们，你知道的，做过采访。

We, you know, had interviews.

我们做到了。

We did it.

世界变得着迷，这催生了一本畅销书《原则》，此后他还写了多本书。

The world became fascinated, and it led to a bestselling book called the principles, and he's written many books since then.

我认为我们都会同意，他是世界上最有意思的思想领袖之一。

And I think we could all agree he's one of the most interesting thought leaders in the world.

我们至今仍在与雷合作。

We still work with Ray.

但我讲这个故事是因为，当时那位客户敢于主动站出来需要极大的勇气。

But I tell that story because at the time, the bravery it took that client to actually get on the front foot.

嗯，他确实有点登上了舞台。

Well, he did he did kinda take to the stage.

他确实登上了。

He did.

他几乎一直在舞台上。

He's pretty much he's pretty much on the stage somewhere.

好像一年到头每周都在。

Seems like every week of the year.

猜猜怎么着？

Well, guess what?

他发现他喜欢这件事，而且他也很擅长。

He learned he liked it, and he's good at it.

顺便说一下，对于许多成为思想领袖的创始人来说，这会带来第二人生，比如看看大卫·鲁宾斯坦。

And by the way, for a lot of founders who become thought leaders, it leads to kind of a second act, which is, you know, look at David Rubenstein.

对吧？

Right?

多精彩的第二人生啊。

What a second act.

没错。

Right.

你知道，他现在是个电视主持人。

You know, he's a TV host now.

很多人以为他只是个电视主持人、播客主持人之类的，

Many people think he's he's a t he's just a TV host or a podcast or what else?

但他们其实并不了解。

You know, they don't know.

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

所以这个故事的重点是，有时候要主动出击，掌控局面，以正确的方式公开讲述你的正面故事。

So the point of that story is, like, sometimes getting on the front foot, taking control, telling your pro story publicly in the right way.

但听我说。

But listen.

在高风险的诉讼中，这些都是像约翰·昆恩和詹·普罗塞克这样的律师在过程中所下的每一步棋，目的是掌控叙事，并以最有效的方式呈现出来。

In a high stakes litigation, this is these are all the chess moves that the, you know, a John Quinn and a Jen Proserc are making along the way to try to take control of that narrative and put it forth in the most effective way.

对。

Right.

所以我来问你一个问题。

So I'm gonna ask you a question.

我对这个问题有自己的答案。

I would have my own answer to this.

我不想知道你自己的答案。

I'm not interested in hearing your own answer.

你认为你的超能力是什么？

What do you regard as your superpower?

我有一个看法，基于我的视角和我们共同的经验，你的超能力是什么。

I I I have a view about what, from my perspective and our experience together, what your superpower is.

你认为你的超能力是什么？

What do you think is your superpower?

是公司还是你本人？

The firm or me?

那我们两个都谈谈吧。

Let's do both.

好的。

Okay.

我想，我的超能力是喜欢了解创始人、企业主和首席执行官们。

Well, my superpower, I suppose, is I love getting to know founders and business owners and CEOs.

我个人对此非常着迷，喜欢将他们彼此引荐，因为我相信，一个新的联系可能会改变你的人生、你孩子的命运，以及你的商业轨迹。

I'm personally fascinated and I love introducing them to each other because I believe that one, a new connection can change the course of your life, your kid's life, your business trajectory.

所以，正如你所知，我是一个促成者。

So as you know, I'm a convener.

这是我最重要的超能力。

That's my number one superpower.

而且我会去做。

And I do it.

是的。

Yes.

因为这对我和我的客户都有商业上的好处，但我也因为热爱而去做。

Because it's commercially beneficial to me and my clients, but I also do it because I love it.

我免费做这件事。

I do it for free.

是的。

Yeah.

太有趣了。

So interesting.

因为我想说，你的超能力就是你是个连接者。

Because I was going to say your superpower is you're a connector.

没错。

There you go.

这正是你刚才说的。

Which is what you said.

是的。

Yes.

你拥有非凡的能力来做这件事，我认为你显然兴趣广泛、充满好奇心，所以你能与人交谈，并且擅长引导他人表达。

You have an amazing ability to do that and I think it is, you're obviously, you have a lot of interests, you're curious, so you can talk to people and you're good at drawing people out.

珍会组织晚餐和其他活动，让一些人彼此认识，一些人互不相识，围坐在一起用餐，并且能够激发对话。

Jen convenes dinners and other events and gets people who make some know each other and some don't know each other around the table for a meal and has the ability to spark conversations.

她总是以一个破冰问题开始，比如有一次是关于出生顺序的。

And she begins these with an icebreaker, like, remember one was something about birth order.

你当时在哪里？

Where were you?

嗯。

Yeah.

你在家里是第几个孩子？

And what what is your order in your family?

我也一直觉得这非常重要。

Which I also I've always thought that's very important.

所以你会让人们分享这样的事情。

So you get people sharing things like that.

另一个曾经用过的破冰问题是：在高中时，用一到五分给自己的人气打分，然后大学时这个分数有什么变化？

Another one was at one time was, grade your popularity in high school on a scale of one to five, and then how did that change in college.

对吧？

Right?

你知道，这些看似可能是些无聊的小问题，它们并不涉及商业，但却很有效。

And, you know, they seemingly maybe you might say kind of silly little things, and they're they're not business oriented, but it works.

人们会交谈。

People talk.

顺便说一下，我在迪拜举办了一次晚餐，用了那个受欢迎度。

By the way, I did a dinner in Dubai and I used that popularity.

哦，很好。

Oh, good.

这让我很高兴。

I'm so that makes me happy.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我喜欢把人们互相介绍。

I love introducing people to each other.

我觉得人生中最宝贵的是你的社交网络。

I feel like the most valuable thing in life is your network.

我了解到，在商业和金融领域，人们害怕人性。

And I've learned that in business and finance, people are afraid of humanity.

但如果你以正确的方式运用它——不是愚蠢或无关的方式——它就能让人意识到：我们其实都只是普通人。

But if you use it the right way, the exact right way, not a silly way or irrelevant way, it does break down everything down to, wow, we're just a bunch of people.

我认为，如果能在活动初期做到这一点，对话就会变得更加丰富。

And I think if you can do that early in an event, you just get a much richer conversation.

我的意思是，我们90%的时间都在谈论政治、地缘政治、新问题、商业，诸如此类。

I mean, we spent 90% of the time talking about politics and geopolitics and new issues and business, whatever, whatever.

但若从一些个人化的话题开始，就能让你真正感受到房间里其他人的存在。

But starting with something personal really just gives you a sense of the other humans in the room.

而且，我一直希望每个人都能彼此后续联系、开展合作，促成美好的事情发生。

And, you know, I always want everyone to follow-up with each other and do business and make great things happen.

这会让事情变得容易一点。

It makes it a little easier.

我的意思是，当人们在晚餐时展开一场真正的对话时，总会发生某种奇妙的事。

I mean, when when you get a real conversation going over a dinner among people, there's something magical to happen.

哦，太棒了。

Oh, so great.

没有什么比这让我更开心了。

Nothing makes me happier.

我爱你。

I love you.

我在迪拜办过一次晚餐，我不知道，显然这与在场的人有很大关系，但我们进行了一场相对高水平的对话，讨论了人工智能和前沿人工智能，比如我们的大型语言模型是否已经走入死胡同，我们是否应该转向不同的方向，而不是依赖 brute force 预测这种 LLM 技术，是否应该走向一种真正基于符号概念的方向——在图上分配不同的树来表示相关概念，从而连接概念而非预测下一个字母或单词是什么，这真是一场非常有趣的对话。

I did this dinner in Dubai and I don't know, obviously it had a lot to do with the people who were there, but we had a relatively, I would say, high level conversation about AI and frontier AI and things like our large language models at dead end, should we be going in a different direction rather than the brute force prediction, the technology of an LLM, should we go into a different direction where it's really symbolic concepts where you assign on a graph, different trees about related concepts, and so you're connecting concepts not predicting what the next letter or word would be, and it was really an interesting conversation.

每个人都积极参与，我认为这对在场的每个人都有用，而且也很有趣，每个人都学到了东西，同时还非常愉快。

Everybody was chipping it it was A, I think useful for everybody there but and B, interesting and everybody learned something and C, really fun.

我想，像你我这样的人，时间都为零。

I think, listen, people like you and me have zero time.

所以当人们愿意抽出时间做某事，然后走出去说‘这真的很有价值’时，这让我非常开心，因为能和20位杰出的人坐在一起，确实很有价值。

So when people make time for something and then walk out and say that was really valuable, that just makes me so happy because, know, it is valuable to get in a room with 20 amazing human beings.

所以我要说，人生中没有什么能比得上这个。

So if something to say, there's nothing like it in life.

但要做得对，其中有一套特定的方法。

But getting that right, there was a certain formula to it.

嗯。

Yeah.

你是怎么进入这一行的？

How did you get in this line of work?

我的意思是，我猜你之前在哪里？

I mean, I I assume where were you?

你以前不是一直做这种工作吧？你的背景是什么？你是怎么进入这一行的？

You weren't always doing this kind of work or what's your background and how did you get into this?

我的背景挺有意思的。

I have a funny background.

我大学时主修英语。

I was an English major in college.

当时不知道自己想做什么。

Didn't know what I wanted to do.

所以我实习了大概一百万次。

So I interned about a million times.

我做过法律市场调研的实习，数不清多少次。

I did an internship in law market research, million of them.

然后我进入了一个奇怪的小型实习，是在一家时尚公关公司。

And then I end up in this weird little internship in a fashion PR firm.

我相当确定我不喜欢时尚这部分，但这一点对我来说非常明显。

And, I was pretty sure I didn't love the fashion part, but it was very obvious to me.

沟通这部分，我觉得我可能是天生适合做的。

The communications part was something I might have been, I might be born to do.

所以我很早就明白了这一点。

So I figured that out early.

我父母都是老师，他们对我学英语文学非常不满，因为他们觉得，你知道，我根本找不到工作。

I, my parents were teachers and they were very upset that I went to school for English literature because they thought, you know, I'm never going to get a job.

所以我毕业前确保自己做了无数个实习和沟通相关的工作，但我毕业时正赶上严重的经济衰退。

So I made sure I had like a zillion internships and communications before I graduated, but I graduated into a pretty bad recession.

我确实进入了一家大公司并参加了培训项目。

I did get a job in a big firm and a training program.

然后我遇到了一个人，他有个创业的想法。

And I ended up meeting, a guy, one guy who had an idea to start a business.

我不想为他工作。

And I didn't wanna work for him.

我不想创业。

I didn't wanna start up.

所有事情都感觉不对劲。

Everything about it was wrong.

客户简直是糟糕透顶。

The clients were, oh, the worst.

这正是这一切的开端。

That was the start of this.

对。

Right.

嗯。

Yeah.

那是多久以前的事了？

And that was how long ago?

哦，我不想说。

Oh, I don't wanna say.

哦，好吧。

Oh, okay.

嗯。

Yeah.

好吧。

Alright.

所以是很久以前了。

So A long time ago.

1952年。

1952.

好的。

Okay.

嗯。

Yeah.

嗯，我猜你12岁的时候就开始了。

Well, was you started when you were 12 years old, I assume.

没错。

That's right.

那么，关于沟通，你觉得你学到的最重要的教训是什么？是大多数人其实并不真正理解的那一点？

So what what would you say is a lesson you learned about communication, something important that most people don't really appreciate?

天哪。

Oh, boy.

太多了。

There's so many.

我有一些创业的教训，也有一些沟通方面的教训。

I have my entrepreneurship lessons and my communications lessons.

我认为创业方面的经验更有趣，但在沟通方面，听我说，我讨厌这个词，因为人人都在用，但真诚才是制胜关键。

And I think the entrepreneurship ones are more interesting, but in communications, listen, I think I hate the word because everyone uses it, but authenticity wins the day.

我认为不伪装有一种我们在这里做的练习，叫做‘精准讲述故事’。

I think not being a there's an exercise we have here called nailing the narrative.

如果你问我，我有500名员工。

If you ask me, you know, I have 500 employees.

他们中的大多数都比我强，而且还有其他方面。

Most of them are better than me and something.

但我仍然是最擅长精准讲述故事的人。

I'm still the best at nailing the narrative.

这意味着，即使走进一家最枯燥、别人认为毫无特色的企业，我也能找出这家公司的独特卖点和它赖以崭露头角的独特故事。

And what that means is I can walk into the most boring company or what other people think is boring, undifferentiated, and figure out what is the unique selling proposition and the unique story this company needs to tell to get on the map.

我一看就知道。

I just know it when I see.

这是一句话、一个短语、一个词，还是一段话？

Is that like one sentence or one phrase or one word or paragraph?

通常，它可能是一段话。

Like, usually, it it can be a paragraph.

也可能只是一句话。

It could be it could be one line.

这要看情况。

It depends.

我们可以缩短或扩展它，但对我来说，精准地讲述故事是我们所做的最有价值的事情。

We can shrink it or expand it, but nailing the narrative to me is the most priceless thing we do.

因为如果我能给你一套让人想购买你的产品、为你工作或投资你的语言，我就改变了你事业的走向。

Because if I can give you the language that gets other people excited to buy from you or work for you or invest in you, I've changed the trajectory of your business.

对吧？

Right?

所以，精准地讲述故事是你需要做的第一件事。

So nailing the narrative is the first thing you need to do.

在你开始向世界喋喋不休之前，先想想你到底在说什么？

Like, before you start squawking to the world, like, what are you squawking about?

而且它是否有趣且与众不同？

And is it interesting and differentiated?

我们正处在一个前所未有的嘈杂世界。

We are in the noisiest world ever.

那么，是什么让你变得有趣和独特？

So what makes you interesting and unique?

我的意思是，我记得我们第一次见面那天，你递给我一顶帽子，上面写着‘最令人畏惧’。

I mean, one of the things I loved about the first day we met, you handed me a baseball hat that said most feared on it.

我回去查了你，发现你们每年都被评为全球最令人畏惧的律师事务所。

And I looked you up, and it said you were voted the most feared law firm in the world every year.

我必须说，这非常清晰，对我来说，这也是一个令人信服的理由，让人愿意聘请你或对你心生敬畏。

And I have to say that's a very that's a very clear and to me compelling reason to hire you or be afraid of you.

但它只是简单地说明了你们做什么，以及你们做得最好。

But like, it it's just, it says what you do and it says you do it the best.

我非常喜欢这一点。

And I loved it.

而且，你知道，我也喜欢这一点，因为它并不枯燥。

And, you know, I also loved it because it wasn't boring.

你知道，我们与金融机构、大型科技公司等合作。

You know, we work with financial institutions, big technology companies, whatever.

你被训练得要枯燥乏味。

You're sort of trained to be boring.

我不喜欢枯燥。

I don't like boring.

我希望有点儿犯错的火花。

I want a little sizzle of mistakes.

所以我认为，一个故事应该有它的亮点。

So I I think a narrative should have something to it.

彻底的真相与透明。

Radical truth and transparency.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

关于这起谋杀案的文化叙事。

The narrative around the culture of this murder.

想想这有多有效。

Think about how effective that is.

一位传播人员告诉我，如果你的竞选活动没有让你感到一丝紧张，那它可能并不有效。

One one communications person said to me that if your campaign doesn't make you a little bit nervous, it's probably not effective.

是的。

Yes.

你觉得这是真的吗？

You think that's true?

如果我要感到紧张，那我也想感到兴奋。

I if I wanna be nervous, but I want to be excited.

我想坐在椅子边缘，有点紧张地说：继续讲下去。

I wanna re I wanna sit on the edge of my seat a little and say, tell me more.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

世界上最具威慑力的律师事务所，我有成千上万个问题要问你。

The feared most feared law firm in the world, I have about a zillion questions for you.

你是怎么建立起来的？

How did you build it?

为什么？

Why?

他们为什么怕你？

Why are they afraid of you?

你是怎么变得这么让人害怕的？

Like, why are you so scared?

我想知道。

I wanna know.

我觉得这是有效的。

I think it works.

激进的真相与透明。

Radical truth and transparency.

这到底是什么意思？

What the heck does that mean?

我没有这种文化。

I don't have that culture.

然后你说，没错。

And then you say, yeah.

接着你就会梳理出背后的所有故事。

The then you unpack all the stories behind it.

你会想，天啊，当然了，这听起来对我来说很荒谬。

You're like, my god, of course, wanna this sounds wacky to me.

你知道，这并不是你在谈论金融界的人时，他们就是那样的。

You know, this is not you talk about people in the finance world, you know, being the way they are.

是的。

Yeah.

他们不想在外面露面。

They don't wanna be out there.

他们不会戴那种写着‘最令人畏惧’之类的帽子，或者银行业里类似的东西。

They're not gonna wear hats that say, you know, most feared or whatever the banking equivalent of that is.

说‘最令人畏惧’甚至都不适用于我们公司的所有合伙人。

Saying most feared isn't even for all the partners in our firm.

不。

No.

我知道。

I know.

我听过你那些不合适的合伙人说他们不喜欢这样。

I've heard I've heard your wrong partners say they don't like it.

我知道。

I know.

是的。

Yeah.

我一些

Some of my

我的一些合伙人宁死也不会戴那种帽子。

some of my partners would wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of those hats.

猜怎么着？

Guess what?

我18岁的女儿偷走了我的帽子。

My daughter who's 18 stole my hat from me.

如你所知，它印在我的名片上，我知道我的很多合伙人对此都很反感。

As you know, it's on my business card, and I I know a lot of my partners cringe over that.

你对他们的建议是什么？

What's your what's your advice to them?

去跟那些反感的合伙人说吧。

Speak to my partners who cringe.

我的建议是，差异化是无价的，我认为在律师事务所圈子里，天啊，这是世界上最缺乏差异化的领域。

My advice is differentiation is priceless, and I think that in law firm circles, OMG, the most undifferentiated space in the world.

我喜欢它，而不是不喜欢它。

I like it versus not like it.

我确信有那么几个情况它并不适用。

I'm sure there's a couple instances where it doesn't really work.

但你知道吗？

But you know what?

听好了。

Here's the deal.

没错。

Yep.

你不可能满足每个人的需求。

You can't be everything to everyone.

一直如此。

All the time.