水星：伊马德·阿赫洪和他的妈妈

这在英国是标准做法。

Like like, this was like the standard thing in The UK.

不知为什么，所有创办公司的人几乎都不是程序员，他们都急需一位技术联合创始人。

Like, for whatever reason, like, everyone who started companies was like not a programmer and they all needed an engineering cofounder.

所以我认识那些从伦敦去参加Y Combinator的公司，它们都需要一位技术联合创始人。

So I knew both the companies that were moving to do Y Combinator from London, and they both needed an engineering cofounder.

而它们已经进入Y Combinator了。

So I was and they'd already they'd already go into Y Combinator.

所以我 basically 就去面试了这两家公司，最后选择了ClickPass。

So I was like I basically just interviewed at both of them, and then I ended up choosing ClickPass.

这就是我的第二家公司ClickPass，我们2007年参加了Y Combinator，持续了将近两年。

So that was my second company, ClickPass, which we did from, like, we did Y Combinator in 2007 and it went on for like almost two years.

你还记得第一次搬出去的时候吗？

Do you remember that first time moving out?

你对刚搬过去时有什么早期记忆吗？和伦敦或者你以前的生活相比，感觉怎么样？

Do you have any like early memories of moving and kind of what that was like compared to London or what you're used to?

有趣的是，我觉得自己特别富有，因为ClickPass我们筹到了大约30万美元。

The funny thing is I felt so rich because ClickPass, we'd raised like 300 k.

所以我有5万美元的薪水，但之前我刚经历了七个月没有薪水、只有6000英镑的日子。

So I had like 50 k salary, but I'd just gone seven months with like no salary and like £6,000.

所以我感觉真正获得了自由和机会，这简直太有趣了。

So I was like felt like a real like freedom and opportunity, and and it was just, like, so fun.

你知道，那时候在Y Combinator的圈子，大家都很年轻。

You know, the community back then in Y Combinator, like, everyone was young.

我觉得Y Combinator当时给了大约1.5万美元左右。

I think Y Combinator gave, like, $15,000 or something like that.

而且，是的，基本上都是刚毕业的学生，或者这个项目本身也是个暑期项目，对吧。

And, yeah, it was only, like, basically people, like, just out of college or, like, in this is a summer program as well, so, like Right.

有些人实际上还在上大学，正在放暑假。

You know, some percentage of the people were literally in college and having, like, a summer break.

literally 一半的公司都是这样，如果项目不成功，他们就回去继续上学。

Like, literally half the companies were, like, you know, if it doesn't go well, they're going back to college.

这简直就是他们的暑假。

Like, this was, like, their summer holidays.

还有每周的晚餐，你能见到一些成功人士，但在伦敦，你根本不可能遇到这些人。

And there was these, like, weekly dinners that, like, you'd meet these successful people and, like you know, in London, like, there were some successful people, but you'd never meet them.

他们就像高高在上的神一般。

They were, like, you know, on some pedestal.

根本就没有一个能见到他们的场合。

Like, there wasn't, a place you would meet them.

而参加Y Combinator时，你会遇到那些真正了不起的亿万富翁，他们创办了科技公司。

Whereas doing Y Combinator, you know, you'd like meet these like freaking billionaires who had like started tech companies.

人不多，就二十来个左右。

There's a small crowd, like, there'd be 20 of you Right.

和这些极其成功的人交谈，是的，这让你真切地感受到了一切。

Speaking to this like extremely successful people and like, yeah, it really made made it real for you.

你也会觉得，这种事情，我也可以做到。

It's like, you can do this too kinda thing.

这绝对是信息中非常重要的部分。

It was, like, such a important part of the message.

但当时我们也觉得只是在玩闹，因为钱实在太少了，很难想象我们真能做成这件事。

But it also felt like we were just kinda playing because, like, you know, it was, like, so little money, and it was hard to imagine that we could do it.

我记得在第一批时，曾和保罗·格雷厄姆聊过，他说：你们当中有人能打造出一个独角兽公司，市值十亿美元。

I remember talking to Paul Graham once in that first batch, and he was like, you know, like, one of you could build a unicorn, like a billion dollar company.

我当时想：保罗在说什么啊？

And I was like, what is Paul talking about?

这些孩子怎么可能创建出十亿美元的公司呢？

Like, none of these kids are voting billion dollar companies.

这听起来太遥远、太难以想象了，因为那时Y Combinator还没有任何成功案例。

It just just seems so far so hard to imagine because, like, Y Combinator had no success at that point.

对吧？

Right?

显然，他说对了，Dropbox就在那一期里。

Like, obviously, he was right and Dropbox was in that batch.

你知道，很多孩子都会经历这样的事，你是在巴基斯坦长大的。

You know, one of the things that a lot of kids go through, you know, you grew up in Pakistan.

所以我是在法国长大的。

So so I grew up in France.

我出生在法国。

I was born in France.

我在摩洛哥长大。

I grew up in Morocco.

很多人都是这样，有些人经历这种事，有些人没有，但那种对任何特定文化都没有归属感、觉得自己有点游离于主流文化之外的感觉。

You know, a lot of people go through this people struggle, some people don't, but this feeling of, like, having no attachment to any, like, specific culture, kind of feeling a little bit outside of the cultures.

我的意思是，你有没有过这种感受？

I mean, is that something you ever felt?

你知道吗，你像在英国那样回到美国时，是否也需要重新塑造自己，还是感觉更自然一些？

You know, do you have to reinvent yourself moving back to The US like you did in The UK, or or did it feel a little bit more natural?

你知道，我从来就没有真正融入英国。

You know, I never really settled into The UK.

对我来说，英国一直是个陌生的地方，我总觉得不被欢迎。

Like, it always felt like a foreign place to me where I wasn't that welcome.

我觉得这背后有多种原因，比如，第一次搬家可能特别艰难。

I think there's a combination of things like, a, maybe that first move was, like, so hard.

其次，我觉得英国文化比较内敛、礼貌，还带点讽刺，这完全不是我的风格。

B, I think culturally, like, British culture is, like, quite reserved, and it's, like, polite, a little cynical, and it was just very much not me.

而我搬到美国后，当然，我的经历并不典型，但我结识了一群科技创业者，他们完全不同于英国文化，反而更贴近我的本性。

Whereas when I moved to and, obviously, my experience in The US is, like, not a normal experience, but, like, you know, I fell in with, like, tech entrepreneurs that are, like, all the exact opposite of British culture and much closer to, like, my culture.

所以那一刻我真正意识到：哇，原来如此。

So it really felt like a moment of saying, like, oh, wow.

在长期没有归属感之后，我终于找到了志同道合的人。

I found my people after, like, not having any people for a long time.

然后我搬到了水晶大厦，那是当时的一栋白色摩天大楼。

And then I moved to Crystal Towers, which is kind of the white scraper at the time.

我们住在同一栋楼里，但说真的，我当时就和一位创业者住在同一个房间里。

And I guess we lived in the same building, but there was, like you know, it was literally, like, I was in one room with an entrepreneur.

隔壁住的是Dropbox的创始人，他们住在另一栋楼，而你们则住在第6层、第4层之类的。

Next door was, like, Dropbox founders that lived in the next building, and then, you know, you guys lived in the 6th Floor or the 4th Floor or whatever.

是11层吗？

Was it 11th Floor?

我都记不清是哪一层了，但大概就是这样。

I can't even remember what floor it was, but but it was like yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我从来没有感到过孤单。

I there wasn't any point where I could be lonely.

我总是被一群经历着类似事情的人包围着，那真是一种非常紧密的联结氛围，直到现在，我仍然和刚来这儿头几个月就认识的很多人保持着友谊。

I was just always surrounded with, like, people going through, like, this, like, similar experience, and it was it was like a really kind of a bonding environment and, like, know, I'm still friends with, like, a lot of the people that, you know, I met literally in the first few months of moving here.

所以，是的，ClickPath的故事是怎样的？

So, yeah, how did the ClickPath story go?

你在那里工作了多久？后来是怎么结束的？

How long were you working there, and how did that end?

最后取得了某种程度的成功。

Ended up having, like, relative success.

所以我们当时在开发一个开发者工具，让用户能够登录网站。

So we were building basically, like, this developer tool to let people, like, log in to websites.

但当时根本没人想清楚怎么赚钱，这还挺讽刺的。

But there was, like no one had, like, really come up with a way of making money, which is kinda funny.

这简直就是2007年典型的创业项目，你心里想着：好吧。

It's it's a classic kinda 2007 startup where where you're like, okay.

现在我们有用户了，但完全没想过怎么盈利。

Now we have users, but we have no, like, thought on, like, how we make money.

然后项目渐渐没了动力，我就开始了我的第三家公司。

And it kinda, like, just kinda ran out of steam, and I started my third company.

你的第三家公司是做什么的？

And what was your third company?

到那时候，Flash游戏已经成了一种潮流，那是2008年左右。

By this point, Flash Games was, like, kind of a thing in this is, like, 2008.

所以我们有了一个想法，想围绕Flash游戏分发开发一个工具。

So we had this idea to do, like, develop a tool around, like, Flash game distribution.

我去找了保罗·格雷厄姆，对他说：嘿。

I went and talked to Paul Graham, and I was like, hey.

这是我们的想法。

This is the idea.

我记得我们当时一起散步，他对我说：我对游戏一窍不通，但你看起来挺聪明的。

And I just like, I remember we just had this, like, walk, and and he was like, oh, I have no idea about gaming, but you seem smart.

所以，你应该去参加YC。

So, like, you should do YC.

我当时说：好的。

And I was like, okay.

太好了。

Great.

那我们走吧。

That's let's go.

所以这是我第二次进入Y Combinator，我们最终进行了四次转型。

So that that was my me getting into Y Combinator for the second company, and we ended up doing, like, four pivots.

最终实现了盈利，但整个过程持续了八年。

Eventually became profitable, but it went on for, like, eight years.

但我们最终在2016年把它卖掉了，确实挺辛苦的，不过还挺有意思的。

But we eventually sold it in 2016, and, yeah, that was, like, kind of a grind, but kinda still fun.

那时候，你已经做了多久的创业了？

At that point, you'd been working on startups for what?

大概十年左右？

Ten ten years or so?

是的。

Yeah.

所以你已经做了十年了。

So you've been doing it for ten years.

你知道，你把公司卖掉了。

You know, you sell the company.

你有没有过那么一刻，心里想着：也许我不再想做初创公司了？

Did you ever have this minute where you might think to yourself like, hey, maybe I'm done with startups.

那还挺酷的。

Like, that was pretty cool.

我已经做了十年了。

I've done that for ten years.

这真的很艰难。

It's been hard.

我经历了这样的成功，还是你立刻就决定要再创办一家初创公司？

I had this kind of, you know, success or were you immediately like, I'm gonna do another startup?

我确实认真考虑过转做投资人。

I did seriously consider becoming an investor.

实际上，我在2016年卖掉了公司，很快就进行了投资。

And actually, I sold the company in 2016, I invested like very quickly.

我当时就想：做投资人到底是什么感觉？

I was like, okay, you know, what is it like being an investor?

所以我在接下来的一年里投资了大约20家公司。

So ended up investing in about 20 companies in the next year.

这确实是我认真考虑过的一个方向。

So that was something that I seriously explored.

我当时想，我要么是个科技创业者，要么是个投资人，没有其他认真考虑过的选项。

So was like, it's gonna be either I'm a tech entrepreneur or I'm a investor, but there wasn't, like, another serious part that considered.

我们马上回来。

We'll be right back.

当今变化的速度可能让人不知所措。

The pace of change today can be overwhelming.

如果你想富有创造力、成功且具有创新精神，最值得关注的是什么？

What's most important to pay attention to if you wanna be creative, successful, innovative?

我是鲍勃·萨菲安，《快速响应》节目的主持人。

I'm Bob Safian, host of Rapid Response.

《快速响应》是一档每周两次播出的播客，通过与应对实时挑战的顶尖商业领袖进行坦诚对话，帮你拨开迷雾。

Rapid Response is a podcast that cuts through the noise, featuring candid conversations twice a week with top business leaders navigating real time challenges.

来自屡获殊荣的《规模大师》播客团队，带来《快速响应》。

From the team behind the award winning Masters of Scale podcast comes rapid response.

在您收听播客的任何平台搜索并订阅。

Search wherever you get your podcasts to listen and subscribe.

对话

Conversations

我们回来了。

And we're back.

好的。

Okay.

所以你决定要创办另一家公司，然后你突然想，嘿。

So you decide you're gonna start another company and then you decide, hey.

为什么我不开一家银行呢？

Why don't I start a bank?

这听起来像是个艰难的决定，能跟我讲讲你是怎么想到要开银行的吗？

Is that like, talk me through how that process the bank doesn't seem like the easiest company to decide to start.

所以，你知道，我不确定你有没有这样做，但我一直都会在脑子里有一些想法。

So, you know, I don't know if you do this, but I always have, like, some ideas in the back of my head.

我会想，哦，这个想法真不错。

I'm like, oh, this is a cool idea.

这个想法真不错。

This is a cool idea.

所以我在2013年就有了这样一个想法。

So I had this, like, idea in 2013.

实际上，当时还有一个更宏观的想法，就是我们创业者用的每一个工具都会变得越来越好。

Actually, there's, like, there was this meta idea that, like, every single tool we use as an entrepreneur will get better.

所以，你知道，在2006年的时候，作为创业者，一切都挺糟糕的。

So, you know, in 2006, like, everything kinda sucked as an entrepreneur.

那时候还没有Slack。

Like, there was there was no Slack.

那时候也没有Stripe。

There was no Stripe.

那时候也没有Gusto。

There was no Gusto.

我 literally 列了一份清单，上面写着每个初创公司都需要的所有工具，以及哪些工具不好、哪些工具好之类的内容。

I literally had a list of, like, here's all the tools that every single startup needs and, like, which ones are not good and which ones are good kind of thing.

但到了2013年，很多工具都已经改进了。

But, you know, by 2013, a lot of them had improved.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得Gusto大概是2011年推出的，我说不准，而Stripe和Slack的前身都已经上线了。

I think Gusto had launched in 2011, I wanna say, and, obviously, Stripe and Slack or the precursor to Slack was live.

但银行业仍然是清单上最后几个依然很糟糕的领域之一。

But banking was just one of the last things left on there that, like, still obviously sucked.

所以我在2013年产生的这个想法，其实甚至算不上是我的主意，更像是列出了每个创业者都在用的工具，显然这些工具都会越来越好。

So this idea I had in 2013, and really it wasn't even like my idea, it was like more like here's the list of things that every entrepreneur uses and obviously they're all gonna get better.

对吧？

Right?

所以它在我列表上，但我从未想过在2013年我会亲自来做这件事。

So it was on my list and I just I never thought in 2013, like, I will be the one doing it.

到了2017年，我卖掉了我的公司，决定不想当投资人。

And then 2017 came along and I'd sold my company and I decided I didn't wanna be an investor.

于是我列出了我的想法清单，这个是排名第一的。

So I had my list of ideas and this was the top idea.

到2017年，我对这个想法能否成功已经有了一定的信心。

Like, I had like a reasonable amount of confidence by 2017, like, that this would work.

但我完全没信心自己能把它做出来。

I had no confidence that I could build it, though.

但我真的很喜欢学习新东西，而且我想找点像这样的事来做。

But, you know, I really like learning new things, and I wanted something that was, like yeah.

这已经是当了十年创业者之后的事了，我终于有了足够的钱，不需要立刻找份工作，可以花点时间思考一些有挑战性的问题。

This is after, like, ten years of being an entrepreneur, and, like, I finally had, like, enough money that I I didn't need a job straight away, and I could, like, spend some time thinking about something hard.

所以我想要做一件有挑战的事，而这个正是我清单上最难的一件。

So I wanted to do something hard, and this was, like, the hardest thing at the top of my pile.

而且我其实挺喜欢这个想法存在了这么久，因为通常我提出的其他想法，你懂的，过一阵子就会觉得无聊。

And I actually kinda like that I had this idea for such a long time because it like, it really most ideas I have you know, normally, you have an idea and you kinda get bored of it.

但我感觉，我一直没对这个想法感到厌倦，说明我可能愿意为此再投入十年甚至二十年的生命，毕竟到那时我已经想了四五年了。

But I felt like the fact that I hadn't got bored of this idea meant that I would probably be willing to do this for another ten years of my life or twenty years of my life, right, given that I'd already thought about it for, like, four, five years by that point.

所以在那个阶段，我真正经历了一次学习的过程。

So at that phase, I really went through this, like, kinda learning exercise.

明白吗？

Okay?

到底要怎么做才能真正实现这个目标？

Like, what does it take to really do this?

是的，2017年时我并没有意识到，这其实是金融科技的非常早期阶段。

And, yeah, I didn't realize this in 2017, but, like, this was, like, very early in fintech.

当时根本没人知道该如何打造一家数字银行。

Like, no one really knew how to build a neobank.

真的，没人知道。

Like, no one really knew.

也许只有两三个团队稍微做过一些尝试。

Maybe, like, two or three people had, like, kinda done it.

我的意思是，当时有几个消费型数字银行，但它们只关注某些特定功能，比如转账之类的东西。

I mean, there was a few consumer neo banks where, you know, we wanted, like, very specific features or wires and things like that.

所以那时候，我花了整整五个月时间深入研究，认真思考：这真的是我能做的事吗？我该怎么做？

So, yeah, at that time, like, I just spent, like, five months going, like, really deep and, like, deciding, like, is this something I could do and how would I do it?

我想要的，是一个创业型银行平台。

Like, the thing I wanted, which is, a startup banking platform.

如果一家银行能开发出优秀的软件，会怎么样？

Know, what if a bank could build great software?

那意味着什么？

Like, what would that mean?

我找遍了所有我能接触到的金融科技投资人、创业者和律师。

And, like, I spoke to every fintech investor I could find, fintech entrepreneur I could find, every lawyer.

在这五个月里，我一共进行了90场不同会谈，只为搞清楚：这件事究竟该怎么做？

I had 90 different meetings in that, like, five months to, like, figure out, like, what is the plan for doing this?

随着时间的推移，你逐渐明确了方向，好吧。

And it was like, you know, over time, you kinda coalesce on, okay.

这就是可能行得通的方案。

This is what might work.

这个过程就是这样。

And that was, like, with the process.

在这段时间里，我建立了信心。

Over that time, I built confidence.

当我第一次参加会面时，我心想：这些人说的话我完全听不懂。

Like, when I first had my first meeting, I was like, well, I have no idea what these people are talking about.

但最终，因为你已经进行了89次会面，你可能比第90个谈话的人懂得还多，因为你积累了大量具体的知识，但确实如此。

And then eventually, you get to the point where you're like, because you've had 89 meetings before, you probably even know more than the ninetieth person you're talking to because you've like accumulated all this like fairly specific knowledge and like but yeah.

最终，这一切变得真实了。

Eventually, it became real.

你还记得第一次跟妈妈说起这个创业想法，或者说你真的在做这件事的时候吗？

Do you remember the first time you told your mom about the startup idea or sort of that you were actually doing this again?

是的。

Yeah.

我不这么认为。

I don't I don't think so.

她一直都很支持，不管我做什么，她都觉得我会成功，这一点我很感激她。

She's always been, like, very much, like, you know, whatever you do is gonna be successful in that kind of thing, which, like, I appreciate about her.

她是的。

She yeah.

她让我们稍微改述一下，但基本上她告诉我们，当你告诉她你要开一家银行时，她根本没想到这是个选项。

She told us to kind of paraphrase a little bit, but she told us basically, when you told her that you're gonna start a bank you know, basically, she didn't even realize that was an option.

她就说，这看起来太难了。

She was like, well, that seems really hard.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

她可能根本不相信我会做成这件事。

She probably didn't believe I'd do it.

我的意思是，直到那时我也经历过很多失败。

I mean, I'd had a lot of failures until then as well.

所以尽管她对我有信心，但她可能并不真的觉得我能成功做到这一点。

So even though she has confidence in me, she probably didn't, like, necessarily think I'd have managed to actually succeed at it.

你还记得他第一次告诉你他要开银行的那天吗？

Do you remember the day that he first told you he was gonna start a bank?

哦，记得。

Oh, yes.

我当时非常震惊。

I was very shocked.

银行？

Bank?

我说，银行？

I said, bank?

银行是什么？

What is a bank?

你怎么能做银行？

How can you do bank?

谁来做银行？

Who does bank?

我从没见过有人做银行。

Never saw anyone doing bank.

我说，谁怎么能开一家银行？

I said, how can anyone starts a bank?

因为对我来说，这简直是一项不可能完成的任务。

Because for me, like, it is quite a impossible job to do.

但他却说，我会做到的。

But he said, I will do it.

我当时的表情。

My look.

我已经证明了自己。

I have proved myself.

我说，是的。

I said, yes.

当然。

Of course.

你确实做到了。

You have.

但他说我还会做得更好。

But he said I will do better.

所以我确信他会做到。

So I was sure he will.

所以她也说，我的意思是，我觉得特别有洞察力的一点是，开银行需要人们信任你。

So she also said, I mean, of the things I thought was really kind of insightful is that starting a bank, you need people to trust you.

对吧？

Right?

我们问她，关于你最大的优势是什么。

We asked her, you're kind of about your biggest strengths.

我想播放这段，然后我想问问你的看法。

I wanna play this, and then I wanna I wanna ask you about that.

他说，从小时候起，他就非常诚实，对一切都非常清晰，你根本感觉不到有什么见不得人的事在暗地里发生。

This thing is that he from childhood, he's so honest, and he's so, like, clear about everything that you can't feel that something dodgy is going on under the carpet.

你和他交谈时，立刻就能发现他非常直率。

You talk to him, you straight away find out he's so clear cut.

他就像一块清澈的钻石。

He's like a clear cut diamond.

他是我儿子，所以我看得出来。

He's my son, so I can see.

这很可爱。

That's cute.

你知道吗，我觉得这很有意思，因为信任非常重要，尤其是对于银行来说。

You know, I thought that was really interesting because trust is so important, especially for a bank.

而且，我想知道你是否有一套关于如何建立这种信任以及如何着手做的理念。

And, you know, I wonder if you have a philosophy on how you build that trust and how you go about that.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，当我刚开始做Mercury时，我很快意识到，最难的部分其实是信任。

I mean, I quickly realized when I started Mercury, actually, the hard part is trust.

比如，打造最好的产品其实并不难，但如果我们和JPMC之类的公司相比，根本不存在谁的产品更好的问题。

Like, it's not that hard to build the best product, but in some ways, if you compare us to, like, JPMC or whatever, there's no, like, question on, like, who's got the better product.

对吧？

Right?

他们甚至都不是在产品上和我们竞争，他们拥有的是信任。

Like, it's not they're not even competing against us in product, but what they have is trust.

而银行业几乎是企业所能建立的最难的信任壁垒。

And, like, banking is almost the hardest trust barrier that you could build as a company.

或许还有其他更难的，但我觉得像特斯拉这样的公司也很困难，因为它们在载你行驶，万一出故障就麻烦了。

Like, there must be some other one that's harder, but I guess, like, Tesla or something is kinda hard because they're driving you around and they could break.

但银行业，你知道，当有人把钱存在Mercury作为银行使用时，他们是在把所有资金都交给我们。

But, like, banking, like, you know, when someone uses us as a bank, they're, putting all the money in Mercury.

是的。

Mhmm.

我很快就意识到，这可能是我们最大的挑战，我至今仍认为，这是我们不得不持续投入的重要事项之一。

I I realized very early on, it's probably our biggest challenge, and I I would still say it's, like, probably one of the bigger things that we have to, like, continue to invest in.

因此，我们有意识地做了一些事情来建立信任，也有一些是早期无意中做到的。

So a few things we did deliberately for it to try to build trust and a few things that, like, we did accidentally early on.

在有意识的方面，我认为获得初始信任的主要方式是通过关联。

On the deliberate side, I think the main way you get initial trust is through association.

我们由安德森·霍洛维茨孵化，种子轮有60位投资者。

So, you know, we're raised from Andreessen Horowitz, and we had actually, like, 60 investors in our seed round.

其中许多是知名的企业家和金融科技领域的专家。

Many of them were, like, well known entrepreneurs and well known fintech people.

实际上，硅谷银行的创始人也投资了Mercury。

And, actually, the original founder of Silicon Valley Bank invested in Mercury.

我确实认为这很有帮助。

And I I definitely think that helped.

其次，我认为你说话的方式、定价方式，以及对这些事情保持高度开放和透明，都有助于建立信任。

I think, secondly, I think the way you talk and the way you, like, do pricing and, like, just being, like, very open and transparent about it, I think helps build trust.

对吧？

Right?

如果你使用大量流行术语，定价隐藏得很深，诸如此类的事情，就会让人感觉这是一个缺乏信任的环境。

Like, I think if you use a lot of buzzwords and, like, you have a lot of hidden pricing and, like, all of these things, like, it can feel like a low trust kind of environment.

在刻意为之的第三点上，我认为比起一个品牌，人们更容易信任一个能看见的人。

And then number three on the deliberate side was I think it's much easier to trust a person that you can see versus a brand.

我经常发推文。

And I tried to tweet a lot.

我上了很多播客。

I went on a lot of podcasts.

我觉得人们都见过我。

Like, I feel like people see me.

哦，另外，如果有人在网上抱怨，我都会立刻回应，说：是的。

Oh, also, like, if anyone complains on the Internet, I'm there saying like, oh, yeah.

怎么了？

What's wrong?

对此我感到很抱歉。

I'm sorry about that.

让我试着解决一下。

Like, let me try to get it fixed.

人们觉得我很容易接触，而且我是站在他们这边的。

Like, people feel like I'm accessible and, like, I'm on their side.

我的意思是，我当然不能总是解决问题，但至少我在那里。

I mean, I can't always fix the problem, obviously, but at least I'm, like, I'm there.

你知道，如果有人想对谁发火，他们可以冲我发火。

You know, if someone wants to shout at someone, they could shout at me kind of thing.

所以我觉得这个家会跨越过去。

So I think the house will cross.

我觉得在偶然的情况下，我们在注册流程上花了大量时间，也就是你申请银行账户时需要完成的具体步骤。

I think on the accidental side, we spent a ton of time on the onboarding process, like the literal steps to, like, you know, what do you need to do to apply for a bank account?

结果我们几乎是无意中完成了这件事。

And we ended up doing it almost accidentally.

我们必须做大量的后端工作，因为我们在这两家合作银行之间切换。

We had to do, like, a lot of back end work because we switched between, like, two partner banks.

所以我们的前端团队和设计师就多了很多空闲时间，最终我们重新设计了注册流程——这是一件非常枯燥、大多数初创公司都不会在上线前如此优化的事情。

So our front end team and our designer just had, like, a lot of extra time, and we we ended up, like, redoing the onboarding process, which is, like, you know, something, like, very unsexy that most startups wouldn't have, like, optimized as much as we did before we launched.

但我们意识到，这是给用户留下的第一印象，而且大多数人对注册金融服务都有非常负面的看法。

But we realized that's a very strong first impression, and it's also something where, like, most people have, like, a very negative impression of signing up for financial services.

你知道，当你注册金融服务时，你默认会经历一段烦人又糟糕的过程。

Like, you know, you you assume you're gonna go through, like, kind of this, like, annoying, awful process when you're signing up for a financial service.

当我们刚开始做Mercury时，我们注册了12家银行的账户。

Like, when we started Mercury, we signed up for, like, 12 banks.

所有这些体验都很痛苦。

All of them are painful.

对吧？

Right?

你会去银行网点，排队等三个小时才把账户开通，然后回家才发现，哦，这个账户还没开通电汇功能，因为那是另一回事。

You'd be like, walk to the bank branch, wait for three hours to get the bank account live, and then go home and then realize, oh, the bank account doesn't have wires enabled because that's like a separate thing.

你得再跑一趟银行网点去开通电汇功能。

You have to go back to the bank branch to enable wires.

你可能去了才发现没带齐他们需要的文件，只好再回去准备材料。

It was, like, insane how or, like, maybe you'd go there and you wouldn't have all the documents that they need, and you'd have to go back and get the documents.

而相比之下，Mercury 的开户体验却非常愉快。

So whereas, like, Mercury was just, like, a really delightful kinda onboarding experience.

这真的让人感觉，哇，太棒了。

And that really set, like, I think people felt like, oh, wow.

我为这个过程做了这么多优化，那我大概也能信任它在后续流程中的表现。

I've done so much to make this better that it's probably something I can trust for, like, the rest of the process.

所以这是一个非常强烈的首印象，而这一点其实完全是偶然的。

So it's at this, like, really strong first impression, and that was like it's kinda accidental.

我没料到这会这么重要。

I didn't expect it to matter that much.

我们只是做了，因为那时候有空。

We just did it because, like, we had time.

我没想到会这样。

I didn't think like, wow.

这本来是个很好的建立信任的环节，但确实很有帮助。

This is gonna be like a great trust building exercise, but it definitely helps.

所以，你知道，从一开始我就想，要是银行能做出优秀的软件会怎样？

So, you know, like, one of the things I've wanted to do basically from the start is, like, go like, you know, what if a bank could build great software?

那会意味着什么？

Like, what would that mean?

我想，这就是它的意义所在。

And I think this is what it would mean.

你知道，我们每年的收入大约是六亿五千万美元。

The you know, we may we're making about 650,000,000 a year.

我们有超过二十万客户。

We have 200,000 plus customers.

我们有一千名员工，每年以超过40%的速度增长。

We have a thousand employees growing at, like, 40% plus yearly.

至于产品，我们最初只是为初创公司提供核心银行功能。

And I guess in terms of product, we initially started with just like a core banking features for startups.

现在，我们已经构建了我认为属于银行账户之外核心资金流动的功能。

Now we have kinda built, you know, what I think of as, like, the core kind of money movements outside the bank account features.

所以我们有了企业信用卡、账单支付解决方案、发票解决方案，以及在此基础上的会计集成。

So we have a corporate credit card, a bill pay solution, invoicing solution, and kind of accounting integrations on top of that.

听起来他分享了成功与挫折。

It sounds like he shared both the ups and the downs.

而且，任何公司都会经历很多挣扎。

And, you know, with with any company, there's there's a lot of struggle.

看到他在Mercury的成功，以及这段旅程至今的发展，对你来说感觉如何？

What has it felt like for you to see his success at Mercury and just how that journey has played out to date?

他小时候经常跟我说，我会给你买一辆奔驰。

When he was little, he used to tell me, I will buy you a Mercedes.

所以当他有点钱的时候，他说我会给你买一辆黑色的奔驰。

So when he got a little bit money, he said, I will buy you a black Mercedes.

但我告诉他，我不需要奔驰，因为所有东西都在我家附近。

But I said, I don't need Mercedes because everything is near my house.

车站就在附近。

Like, station is near.

公交站也在附近。

Bus stop is near.

我说，我不想要奔驰。

I said, I don't want Mercedes.

但现在他有了足够的钱，他说现在我要给你买一套房子。

But now when he got enough money, he said, now I will buy you a house.

所以我非常开心。

So I'm so happy.

我知道有一件事对你来说很重要，那就是虽然这可能会增加额外的工作量，但真正致力于帮助移民创业者。

I know one thing that's been important to you is just it can be extra work, but really working to help service immigrant founders.

而且，你知道，我很想听听你对这件事的看法。

And, you know, I love just to hear your perspective on that.

我的意思是，我觉得这背后是有商业逻辑的。

I mean, I think there's like a business case for it.

比如，当我们刚开始服务时，我某种程度上把自己看作是——嘿。

Like, when we started with serving, like, you know, I kinda looked at myself as like, hey.

我从英国搬到美国，当时很难获得金融服务。

I moved from The UK to The US, and it was hard to get access to financial services.

我就想，我们必须支持这些创业者。

And I was like, you know, we have to support these entrepreneurs.

而且，我觉得网上有个数据说，大约50%的独角兽公司是由移民创业者创立的。

And, like, I think there's some stat out there, like, 50% of, like, unicorn companies are, like, started with an immigrant founder.

所以从实际的商业角度来看，你知道，这群人是非常值得去服务的，尤其是当我们面向初创企业时。

So from a practical business perspective, you know, this was, like, a valuable set of people to, like, go after, especially if we're serving startups.

从个人角度来看，我希望感觉自己是在为自己服务。

And then from a personal perspective, I wanted to feel like I was, like, serving myself.

我知道他非常重视为移民创业者或来自美国以外的创始人提供支持。

One of the things that that I know he places a lot of importance in is just catering to founders that are either immigrant founders or outside The US.

是的。

Yeah.

你觉得他的这种热情是从哪里来的？

Where where do you think that passion comes from for him?

我认为这种热情的来源是因为他深知生活的艰难。

I think that is the reason the passion has come from because he thinks how hard life can be.

如果你经历过某些事情，你就更能提供帮助。

If you have gone through certain things, then you can help better.

我觉得你更能理解。

I think you understand better.

但如果你没有经历过这些，就很难真正理解。

But if you have not gone through these things, it is hard for you to understand.

所以我认为我们最后一个问题是这个。

So I think we got our last question here.

这是一件事情，你知道的，我问过你妈妈她最为你骄傲的是什么，她就是这么说的。

This is kind of one thing that, you know, I asked your mom what she's most proud of about you, and this is what she had to say.

我最骄傲的是人们都在好好地谈论他。

I'm most proud of that people are really talking nice about him.

我真的很为此感到骄傲。

I'm really proud of that.

所以如果人们不怎么说你好，人生还有什么意义呢？

So if people are not talking nice about you, what is the use of life, really?

当人们在你背后好好谈论你时，生活才值得过。

Life is worth living when people are talking nicely about you behind your back.

这就是我希望自己死的时候，有人会好好谈论我。

That's what I want for myself as if I will die, somebody will talk nicely about me.

这真暖心。

That's sweet.

是的

Yeah.

我觉得在自己有了孩子之前，你真的无法体会到父母所做的一切。

I feel like before you have kids yourself, you don't really appreciate, like, the things that parents do.

而且，我觉得她真的很勇敢，能移民到另一个国家，抚养四个年幼的孩子，她一直如此努力，这对我来说一直是强大的榜样。

And, you know, I think there's definitely like, she's a very brave woman to, like, move countries, have four young kids, and, you know, how hard she worked has always been, like, a strong example for me.

我觉得她就是有一种强烈的愿望去帮助别人，这也一直为我们树立了良好的榜样。

I think she's just, like, she's just got this, like, real need to help people, and it's always set, like, a good example for us too.

要达到她这样优秀的人品标准，实际上还挺难的。

Like, it's it's actually kinda hard to live up to, example of, like, how how good a person she is.

我 definitely 觉得自己能有她这样的母亲非常幸运。

I definitely think I was I was very lucky to have her as a mother.

好了，伊马德，这真是太棒了。

Well, Immad, this has been awesome.

谢谢你来参加这个节目。

Thanks for coming on the show.

是的。

Yeah.

谢谢你邀请我，大卫。

Thanks for having me, David.

这很有趣。

This was fun.

本播客由Leap Forward Ventures赞助，这是一家投资早期初创企业的风投机构。

This podcast is brought to you by Leap Forward Ventures, an investor in early stage startups.

如果你喜欢这个节目，最重要的一件事就是注册以接收新集发布的通知，其中包括每期故事的文本稿和关键要点。

If you like the show, the number one thing you'll want to do is sign up to get notified when we release new episodes that includes transcripts and key takeaways from each story.

请前往 leapforward.fm 进行注册。

Head to leapforward.fm to sign up.

我也非常希望听到你对本集的反馈，以及你希望下一期邀请谁做客。

I'd also love to hear your feedback on the episode and who you want to hear from next.

请发送短信至 (415) 915-3050 与我们联系。

Just shoot us a text at (415) 915-3050 to get in touch.

本集由西奥·巴尔科姆和金·内德费恩·佩德萨制作。

This episode was produced by Theo Balcom and Kim Nederfain Pedersa.

克雷格·埃利是我们的工程师。

Craig Elly is our engineer.

里斯·拉达诺设计了我们的封面艺术。

Reese Ladano made our cover art.

音乐由旺德利公司的吉姆·布鲁姆伯格和本·兰瑟克创作。

Music is by Jim Brumberg and Ben Lanswerk of Wonderly.

我是大卫·鲁森科，这里是Leap Forward播客。

I'm David Rusenko, and this is the Leap Forward podcast.

下集再见。

See you next episode.

他是个了不起的儿子。

He's an amazing son.

我非常爱他。

I love him so much.

我想每天都能见到他。

I want to see him every day.

有时候我看着他，他正在不停地磨牙。

Sometimes I'm looking at him and he's doing all kind of pressing his teeth.

为他的孩子们做饭，因为他是个好父亲。

So making food for his children because he's such a good father.

为他的孩子们做饭，送他们上学，如果他做这些事，我为他感到无比骄傲。

Make food for his children, take them to school, and I'm so proud of him if he is doing things like that.

他说：‘现在别这么夸我了，奥马尔。’

He said, now do not start praising me so much now, Omar.

我说：‘你看。’

I said, look.

我现在有机会夸你了。

I have got the chance now to praise you.

好吧。

Will.