Plug：Jimmy Douglas 和他的第一位投资人

哦，我记得特别清楚。

Oh, I remember it very vividly.

一出来就跟我打了个招呼，嘿。

Just came out and said, hey.

我现在就能给你起草一份投资条款清单。

I'm ready to write you a term sheet right now.

那时候离我儿子出生也就两三个星期了。

And we were something like two to three weeks out from my son being born.

所以我跟他说，让我先把孩子生下来，九十天后再找你。

So my response was, let me have this baby and come back to you in ninety days.

欢迎收听《飞跃时刻》，一档讲述创业者以及那些在众人之前就相信他们的人的节目。

Welcome to leap forward, a show about founders and the people who believed in them before anyone else.

我是戴维·鲁森科。

I'm David Rusenko.

几年前，我听了吉米·道格拉斯的一次路演。

So a few years ago, I heard a pitch from Jimmy Douglas.

他当时在为一家叫Plug的电动汽车交易平台融资。

He was raising money for a company, a marketplace for electric vehicles called Plug.

那次见面时，他身上有种特别的东西让我印象深刻。

And in that meeting, there was something about him that really stuck with me.

那种能量很明显不只是我一个人注意到了。

It was this kind of energy that clearly I wasn't the only one to notice.

他每一轮融资都超额认购，连传奇投资人安·米拉-科都主动找上门，想跟他一起创业。

Every single one of his rounds has been oversubscribed and Ann Miura-Ko, this legendary startup investor even chased him down to start his own company.

我能感觉到他骨子里有种创业的冲动。

I could tell that there was sort of an entrepreneurial itch that he had.

对。

Mhmm.

所以我问他：那你为什么不当创始人呢？

And so, I asked him the question, what's keeping you from being a founder?

那种动力是从哪儿来的？

Where did that drive come from?

到底是什么原因呢？

What was it exactly?

直到那次谈话，我才意识到他的成长经历有多特别、多不一样。

It wasn't until this conversation that I realized just how interesting and different his upbringing really was.

他没上斯坦福，十六岁就开始靠提成卖吸尘器，高中时就得自己搬出来住。

He didn't go to Stanford, instead he got to start selling vacuum cleaners on straight commission at 16 and had to move out on his own in high school.

今天节目中，我们来讲讲吉米走上创业之路的非传统经历。

Today on the show, Jimmy's unusual path to becoming a startup founder.

接下来，有请吉米·道格拉斯。

And now, Jimmy Douglas.

吉米，谢谢你来参加我们的播客。

Jimmy, thanks for being on the podcast.

谢谢你们邀请我。

Thanks for having me.

我记得我们第一次见面时，你说你出身于一个创业家庭。

So I remember when we first met, you said you came from a family of entrepreneurs.

你能再多讲讲吗？

Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

是的。

Yeah.

事情得从加利福尼亚的圣何塞说起。

It started back in San Jose, California.

我1984年出生，我爸当时在经营一家他共同创办的公司，叫TestPointOne。

I was born in 1984 and my dad was running a company that he had co founded called TestPointOne.

他们专门设计和制造印刷电路板的测试设备，那会儿在硅谷特别典型。

And they were a designer and manufacturer of testing equipment for printed circuit boards, which was very quintessential Silicon Valley back during that era.

那就是我接触这个世界的方式。

That was my introduction into the world.

我三岁生日派对，是在会议室的桌子旁办的。

My third birthday party was at a conference room table.

我老爸办公室里给我专门留了玩具、书架，我还记得我‘第一天上班’，他们把所有员工的孩子都带进来，让我们玩一些平时根本碰不到的设备。

I had my own toys and books and a shelf inside of his office, and I recall my first day on the job where they brought everybody's kids in and gave them things to do with equipment we otherwise wouldn't be handling.

我六岁那年，我爸和合伙人把公司卖了，之后我们过了一段半退休的生活。

My dad and his partner sold their company when I was six years old, and then at that point, we lived a bit of a semi retired life for a little while.

我们全家搬到了俄勒冈州一个偏僻地方的圣诞树农场。

My whole family moved to a Christmas tree farm in the middle of nowhere in Oregon.

你爸为啥突然想搬过去买个圣诞树农场呢？

What was it that made your dad wanna move and buy this Christmas tree farm?

我也想问他，但真说不准。

I wish I could ask him, I'm not totally sure.

我觉得他们俩都把简单生活想得太浪漫了——想当个地主，有大片地想干嘛就干嘛，但代价就是离所有热闹的地方都特别远。

But I think they had both romanticized the idea of a little bit more of a simple life where we can be owners of property, have space to do whatever we want, but obviously that comes at the cost of being pretty far away from everything else that's going on.

从圣何塞搬到圣诞树农场，对你来说感觉怎么样？

How was that experience for you moving from San Jose to the Christmas tree farm?

说实话，特别难熬。

Honestly, really tough.

那真是巨大的文化冲击。

It was a pretty big culture shock.

我们住的那个小镇小得离谱，等我到了上高中的年纪，得去隔壁镇上学，那地方也就两千人左右。

We were living in a town that was so small that when I was old enough to go to high school, I had to go into the next town over, which was a population of 2,000 people.

文化上的落差特别大，我花了整整十多年才慢慢找到自己的位置，感觉真正融入了那个社区。

Culturally, it was a really big shift and it took a really long time for me to find my footing and feel like I had a sense of belonging in that community well over a decade.

说实话，我从来就没觉得自己真属于那儿。

Honestly, I never really felt like I fit in there.

要是说实话，我在那儿被欺负得特别惨。

If I'm being brutally honest, I was bullied pretty mercilessly there.

我那时候就盼着能赶紧离开，等我十六岁拿到驾照，基本就不在家待了，整天往波特兰附近的城市跑，交朋友、泡外面，还找了份跟家里生意没关系的工，就想早点摆脱那种生活。

I remember wishing that I could leave, and by the time I turned 16 and finally got a driver's license, I was basically never really at home and I was making friends in cities that were closer to Portland, Oregon and going out pretty much all the time, including getting a job outside of the family business so that I could start establishing a bit more of a sense of independence from that whole situation.

那你偶尔觉得特别孤单的时候，平时都干点啥？

If you did sometimes feel really lonely, like what were you doing in your free time?

那时候你一个小孩子，对啥感兴趣？

What were you interested in at that point as a kid?

后来互联网出现了，这玩意儿彻底改变了我们这一代人的生活。

Well, the internet came out and that obviously changed the game for a lot of us.

我记得九岁那年，家里终于有了CompuServe的账号，后来又上了AOL，再后来通过本地服务商搞了个拨号上网。

I remember being nine years old when we got a CompuServe account and then eventually an AOL account and eventually a dial up connection through some sort of local provider.

我那会儿整天泡在IRC里，打游戏也打得很疯，比如《Quake 2》，还有早期的《反恐精英》，那时候它还只是《半条命》的一个模组呢。

And I spent a lot of time on IRC, I did a lot of gaming, I was really big into like Quake two as an example, way back then, early Counter Strike when it was a Half Life mod.

那时候我还在童子军里特别活跃。

And I was really involved in my Boy Scout troop too.

但十四岁那年，我爸妈离婚了，那段时间真挺难熬的。

But then my parents split up when I was 14, which was pretty tough.

我和我爸留在了伊格尔克里克的房子里。

And my dad and I stayed in the house in Eagle Creek.

后来家里出了大事——我爸突然得了主动脉瘤。

Tragedy then struck, my dad unexpectedly had an aortic aneurysm.

几周后，他在重症监护室走了。

He died in the ICU a few weeks after that.

然后

And

天哪。

Oh my gosh.

我主动决定独立生活，现在回头看，这想法还挺自大的，但那时候我觉得，比起搬去离我妈妈一百英里外的地方，自己撑着更合适。

I made the conscious decision to be on my own, which in hindsight was a pretty arrogant move, but it seemed like a better idea for me at the time to hang on to that versus move about a 100 miles away where my mom was at the time.

我一拿到驾照，就去西尔斯卖吸尘器，全靠提成赚钱。

I got a job at Sears selling vacuum cleaners on straight commission right after I got my driver's license.

一个16岁的小孩，要是真想赚钱，又没底薪、全靠提成，那干劲真能带你走很远。

And when you're really motivated to make money and you're on a straight commission job with no hourly wage as a 16 year old, that can take you really far.

后来我辗转住在几个朋友家，还有些和学校有关的人那儿，直到17岁才终于租了间公寓安顿下来。

And then eventually, I bounced around a little bit between friends homes and people affiliated with my school before landing myself in an apartment when I was 17.

我就这样读完了高中，还提前毕业了，顺带提前上了大学，那会儿我正好在一家大众汽车4S店的售后部门找了份工作。

And that's how I finished up high school, but I managed to finish early and actually start college early and that was around the time I got a job at a Volkswagen dealership in the service department.

是啊。

Yeah.

那你跟我说说那段经历吧。

So tell me about that.

你那时候拿纯提成，特别拼，自己闯天下，那后来是怎么进大众4S店的？

So you're on straight commission, you're motivated, you're making your own way, and then how did the job at the Volkswagen dealership come about?

就像很多小时候沉迷上网的宅孩一样，我业余帮人修电脑赚钱，正好通过一些熟人介绍，去了那家店修电脑。

Like many of us that were nerding out on the internet as nine year olds, I was moonlighting my income through fixing computers for money and I found myself doing that at this dealership through some friendly connections.

有一天我正跟服务经理忙活事儿，他突然看着我说：‘你想不想干个正经活？’

And then one day when I'm working with the service manager on something, he just looks at me and he says, do you want a real job?

从帮他们修电脑赚点零花钱，直接转成了停车管理员，干了大概六个月，他们把我的上司给炒了，就把他的位置给了我。

And I went from fixing their computers for pocket cash to becoming a lot attendant, and that went on for about six months before they fired the person who I was reporting to and they gave me his job.

快满18岁的时候，我已经基本在管着一整个团队——技师、配件人员、前台，每周五天，晚上五点到凌晨一点，全盘操持整个业务。

So shortly before I turned 18, I was more or less supervising a team of technicians, parts people, receptionist, and operating a full business between the hours of 5PM and 1AM, five days a week.

你那时候那么小，担这么重的担子，感觉咋样？

How did that feel being that age and then having that responsibility?

就是……你觉得自己干的事儿，是对的吗？

Like, did it feel like you're doing something that you felt like was right?

对。

Yeah.

说实话，我到现在还记得那一刻发生的情景。

Honestly, I vividly remember the moment that it happened.

我第一个念头就是：嘿，我工资翻倍了。

And the first thought that came to mind was, hey, my pay just doubled.

你十七八岁想混出个名堂的时候，这笔钱可太管用了。

That goes a long way when you're a 17 year old and you're trying to make it.

我早就有销售经验了，以前靠卖吸尘器养活自己，整天跟车打交道，这下可全用上了。

Obviously, I had plenty of sales experience under my belt, having sold vacuum cleaners in exchange for straight up livelihood, and I got to be around cars the whole time.

对我来说，这就像老天爷特意把一份礼物塞到我手里，我得抓住机会。

So for me, it felt like the universe was putting a gift in my hands that I needed to capitalize on.

说真的，这工作每周就干三四十小时，晚上和周末干，但正好让我能全职上学，还能自己付学费。

And truth be told, it was a thirty to forty hour per week job on nights and weekends, and that platform enabled me to go to school full time and pay for it while I went.

我压根不知道怎么申请学生贷款——根本用不着。

I literally don't even know how to take out a student loan because I didn't have to.

你刚才说，那会儿你整天泡在车市里，买卖车的场景见得多了。

So you said during that time, I mean, obviously you were around an environment where there's a lot of cars that were being bought and sold.

你小时候家里有很多车吗？

Did you have a lot of cars around growing up?

没那么多吧，估计谁都希望多点。

Not as many as I think we all would have liked.

我爸有一辆捷豹XK-E，公司卖了之后，他又买了一辆科尔维特。

My dad had a Jaguar XK e, he had a Corvette that he bought right after he sold the company.

我爸和合伙人快退休的时候，第一件事就是想复刻一辆1934年的帕卡德，后来家里就轮着换那种现在回头看特别经典的SUV——比如布罗诺、早期的塔霍之类的。

When my father and his business partner were entering their semi retired life, their first entry into it was attempting to build a replica of a 1934 Packard and then we went through pretty traditional family SUVs that are really cool in retrospect now, like Bronco, early Tahoe, and all of that.

但这家经销商让我接触到了更多车，结果就是我30岁前已经换过30辆不同的车了。

But this dealership, that's what gave me a lot more access to vehicle supply and one of the ways that manifested was me having owned 30 different cars before I was 30 years old.

我那时候就习惯了把车当衣服换着开，再加上俄勒冈州没销售税，倒来倒去也没啥成本，现在想想肯定是有点病态，但那时候真爽。

I could follow this path of rationalizing the idea of flipping in and out of cars like they were outfits, and it helps that it was the state of Oregon where there's no sales tax and therefore no consequences for doing that, which I'm sure is the sign of a diagnosable problem, but it was really fun at the time.

你倒腾车是真赚到钱了，还是就是纯粹上瘾，爱上了这些车？

Was this like a big moneymaker buying and selling the cars or you just started getting super into, you know, all these different cars?

我确实想过把它做成生意，但总觉得跟我想搞技术的念头冲突得太厉害了。

I did have interest in turning it into a business, but there was too much tension between that and my yearning to have a real technology career.

我当时一门心思只想进一家高速增长的软件公司，把玩车的经历当成跳板，好让自己早日独立。

I was pretty hell bent on getting into a high growth software company and just treating my time in automotive as a springboard into becoming more independent.

你是什么时候开始意识到创业这回事，觉得这可能是你想做的事？

At what point did you become aware of this startup concept and that it's something you might wanna do?

其实我一直都想自己当个创业者。

I actually always knew that I wanted to be a founder of a startup myself.

这很大程度上是受我爸影响，虽然那时候我根本不敢跟他这么说，但我心里一直特别向往：有个好点子，把它变成现实，做成生意，创造就业，给家里挣下几代人的财富。

It was definitely just being inspired by my father and I certainly wouldn't have admitted it to him at the time, but I always idealized the concept of having an idea, manifesting it into something that's real, building it into a business, creating jobs, creating generational wealth for our family.

那真的是我唯一的人生目标。

It was really the only aspiration I had.

大学一毕业，我脑子里一堆点子，可问题是，我根本不知道怎么把想法变成实际的东西。

So following the graduation of college, I had plenty of ideas that I was ideating on, but I didn't know how to build anything or manifest an idea into something that had been built.

所以我一心只想加入一家越早期的初创公司越好。

So I was really looking to join as early stage of startup as I possibly could.

是的。

Yeah.

有没有那么一刻，你觉得是时候该转身去干点别的了？那接下来你打算做什么？

Was there a moment you're like, okay, it's time to move on to the next thing and and what was that next thing?

我后来进了第一家软件公司，叫Smarch。

I found my way into my first software job at a company called Smarch.

那时候公司大概有三十来号人。

There were about 30 people working there at the time.

他们刚拿到一轮融资，八年间，我们一路发展到好几百人。

They had just received a round of funding and over the course of an eight year run there, we grew to many hundreds of people.

这正是我想要的那种，进入高增长环境的绝佳历练。

So that was the exact type of boot camp into a high growth environment that I was looking for.

然后你就去了特斯拉。

And then you moved to Tesla.

说说你是怎么去的？

Tell me about that process.

是啊。

Yeah.

那真是够疯狂的。

That was wild.

我去特斯拉纯属意外。

Tesla happened a little bit on accident.

我休了段时间，想找点灵感，但也没想好到底该干嘛。

I took a little bit of time off and I was searching for inspiration, but it wasn't totally clear what I should do.

我纯粹出于好奇，跟一个猎头聊了聊，因为我觉得特斯拉正好契合我好几个兴趣点。

And I ended up speaking with a recruiter merely out of pure curiosity because I saw the company as one that has the intersection between multiple passions of mine.

她评估了我的背景后，把我介绍给了一个在招人参加内部未公开的领导力培养项目的猎头。

And she sized up my experience and put me in touch with a recruiter that was sourcing people for a non advertised leadership development program.

他们的想法是，找些有相关经验的人，轮岗几个部门，要是能撑下来，就能落到一个挺有意思的位置上。

And the idea was that they would bring in people with some relevant experience, rotate them through a few departments, and then if you can make it, you'll land somewhere in an interesting role.

几周内我就拿到了offer，2018年1月就入职了。

Within a couple of weeks, I had an offer letter in my hand and I started in January 2018.

那时候正是特斯拉最疯的时候。

And that was peak madness at Tesla.

那是当时全球被做空最厉害的公司。

It was the most shorted company in the world.

埃隆直接睡在地板上，我们所有人头发都快急白了，就为了拼命搞定每周生产5000辆Model 3，好让公司扭亏为盈。

Elon was literally sleeping on the floor, and we were ripping our hair out to try and figure out how to manufacture 5,000 Model 3s per week so that we could hit cash flow positivity.

为了达成目标，我们啥招都试遍了。

And we did everything imaginable to try to make that happen.

那刚开始几天是什么感觉？

What was that like, like those first couple days?

你还记得第一天走进公司，心里是不是觉得这地方简直疯了？

Do have any memory of like walking into the building and being like, this is crazy?

我以前从来没在这么大的公司待过，最让我震惊的是，刚被安排到工程财务团队的第一天，我就发现每个人肩上的担子都重得吓人——包括我，一个刚入职、完全没做过财务工作的新人。

I had never worked at a colossal company like that before, and what really struck me when I was put in the first seat on the engineering finance department was just the magnitude of responsibility each person has there, including me, somebody who is brand newly minted at the company in a finance role having never done a finance job before.

那最后你到底在特斯拉干了啥？

So tell me what you eventually ended up doing at Tesla.

最后我负责整个北美地区核心汽车业务的销售和交付运营。

In the end, I was overseeing sales and delivery operations for the core automotive business across North America.

对Plug来说，最引人注目的是二手车转售的盈亏，这笔账单金额绝对是以十亿计的。

And most notably for Plug, the used car remarketing p and l, which the financials, it's absolutely in the billions.

完全是另一个量级了。

Whole another scale.

你是什么时候第一次觉得，这儿其实能搞出一家公司来的？

When was the first moment when you sort of looked at that and thought there might be a company to build here?

我做了几个观察，第一个发现是，只有极少数经销商真正深度参与二手车电动车业务。

I made a couple of observations and the first observation was that only a small number of dealers participate very meaningfully in the used EV business.

现在在美国，只有2%的经销商卖出了超过一半的二手电动车。

Today in The US, just 2% of dealers are selling over 50% of all used EVs.

大多数经销商根本就选择不碰这摊事。

Most dealers are totally opting out.

当我意识到，想把电动车这种资产硬塞进现有的体系里实在太难了——因为这系统根本不是为它设计的，那一刻我才突然想通了。

And the light bulb moment came on for me when I realized that it's extremely challenging to try to make this asset fit into what already exists, it just wasn't built for it.

如果我们从零开始，假装什么都没存在过，反而能走得更快。

And we could move faster if we started from ground zero as if nothing had already been built.

但从那以后，到你真正创办公司，还隔了挺久吧？

But from there, it's still a while until you launch your company, right?

是啊。

Yeah.

所以你当时想让我们去联系安·米拉-科，因为她第一个强烈建议你自立门户。

So you wanted us to talk to Ann Miura-Ko because she was the first person who really pushed you to start your own thing.

那你就先介绍一下安吧？

So why don't you introduce Ann?

她是谁？你们是怎么认识的？

Who is she and how did you meet?

她可是个传奇人物。

She's a legend.

我早就关注她推特好多年了。

I'd been following her on Twitter for years.

是通过一个共同的朋友认识的，她当时在到处找像特斯拉、优步这类公司的运营负责人聊天，我正好有个借口能第一次见她，特别兴奋。

I met her through a mutual friend and she had put the beacon out to talk to general managers or operators from companies like Tesla and Uber, and I was excited to have an excuse to actually meet her for the first time.

所以她跟我们讲了那次对话的经过，我想放一下录音，然后听听你的反应。

So she kind of described that first conversation to us, and so I wanna play that tape and then get your reaction.

好啊。

Cool.

我当时就觉得他不太适合我正在找的那种人，但能感觉到他心里有股创业的劲儿。

I realized he wasn't really a fit for the company that I was looking for, but I could tell that there was sort of an entrepreneurial itch that he had.

对。

Mhmm.

我就问他：是什么让你迟迟没自己创业？

And so I asked him the question, what's keeping you from being a founder?

他说他有不少点子，只是想先确认哪个够大、值得做。

And he responded that he had a bunch of ideas, and he wanted to figure out if the idea was big enough.

但他当时在特斯拉太忙了，根本没把这事当优先级。

And he was so busy working at Tesla that he didn't prioritize that.

你再讲讲，从你的角度，那次对话还有哪些细节？

Tell me about that conversation a little bit more from your side.

听起来，那一刻可能就是你开始想：嘿，我这想法说不定真能开家公司。

It sounds like that was maybe the spark of thinking, you know, I I might have this idea that I'll go start a company.

我觉得这对很多想当创业者的人来说都挺真实的。

I think this is probably true for a lot of would be founders.

有时候，你缺的不是想法，而是一个真正靠谱、带过顶尖创始人的投资人，跟你说：你也能做到。

Sometimes what you need to move through your inertia is seeing that somebody who very credibly has backed world class founders believes that you can be one of those people too.

Ann 给我的那种感觉——她真觉得我有这个潜力——直接推了我一把，让我腾出时间，认真去打磨后来变成 Plug 的那个点子。

And the experience of Ann giving me the impression that she had that belief about me definitely pushed me forward into finding the space to prioritize the ideation into what would become Plug.

我听过好多准备进创业圈的人，都说过类似的话。

I had heard this kind of similar refrain from a lot of people who are sort of thinking about doing something in the startup world.

他们最常问的问题就是：这事儿真能做成大生意吗？

And the big question that they always ask is, is this actually a venture scale idea?

这想法到底有多大？值不值得拼一把？

Like, how big is this idea, And is it worthy of pursuing?

当时我们团队里的 Lior 就说：我觉得我可以搞个项目试试。

And so one of our principals at the time, Lior, said, I think I can, like, run a program.

当时大概有五六个参与者，吉米就是其中之一，他一直在打磨自己的这个点子，最后就成了Plug。

And it was, I think, maybe a cohort of five or six individuals, and Jimmy sort of went through that process, tinkering on this idea that he had that eventually turns into Plug.

她说，实际上，整个项目里只有你一个人拿到了投资。

And she said actually, you were the only person out of that program that they ended up investing in.

哦，真有意思。

Oh, funny.

我之前都不知道这事。

I didn't know that.

我问她你哪里特别，她给了一个例子。

I asked her why you stood out, and here's one of the examples that she gave.

在Floodgate，我们有个说法：创业初期，你随时可能彻底改变自己的想法。

So we have this concept within Floodgate, which is when you're at the very earliest stages of starting a company, there's moments where you're just going to change your idea totally.

真正的优秀创业者，表面上看像是在乱试，其实是在精准地提出假设、不断验证。

And the best entrepreneurs, what might look like random path, it's a precise way of figuring out what your hypotheses are, testing them.

我们接触吉米的时候，就发现他特别像个追求真相的人。

And when we encountered Jimmy in this context, what we started to see, he was very much a truth seeker.

他从不固守某个具体的想法形式。

He didn't get stuck in a particular form of an idea.

他很有主见，但这些主见都留着余地，随时能改。

He had strong convictions, but they were very loosely held.

我希望我团队里有人听到这段，他们肯定笑疯了——因为直到今天，这依然是我们公司文化里根深蒂固的特点。

I hope some of my team listens to this because they're going to laugh hysterically because to this day, that is a characteristic that we've been carrying around culturally.

我很快就能对一个想法形成坚定的看法，但一旦发现假设被推翻，我也立马能把它扔一边。

I build conviction on ideas really quickly and I'm just as quick to push them aside if my hypothesis has been disproven.

那你通常还会关注创始人哪些其他特质？

And do do you have anything else that you look for typically in founders?

我们另一个特别看重的是创始人和市场的契合度，而这种契合度的深度，其实来自你个人的真实经历。

So the other thing that we care about is founder market fit, and the depth of founder market fit actually comes from your own personal lived experience.

吉米在这方面简直是得天独厚。

That's something that Jimmy just had in spades.

部分原因是他当年亲自从零开始，为特斯拉搭建二手车市场。

It's partially because he was in this market building out, you know, for Tesla, the used car market from the ground up.

所以他打心底里明白，要让这一切运转起来到底需要什么。

And so he knew viscerally what was required to make this all work.

不过，吉米还有一个不同之处——他是单打独斗的创始人。

Now, another difference, though, was that Jimmy was a solo founder.

对吧？

Right?

通常我们对单打独斗的创始人有点抵触，原因有几个。

And usually, we have a little bit of an allergic reaction to the solo founder because there's a few reasons for that.

一个是，这个人能撑得久吗？

One is, will this person actually have a longevity?

他能扛得住创业者的孤独吗？

Will they be able to withstand the loneliness of being an entrepreneur?

但我对他有足够的信心，觉得他有韧劲，所以这些顾虑，因为他在想法上实在太出色了，我们都能克服。

I actually had a lot of confidence that he had the grit, and so those were sort of concerns that we could overcome given the fact that he was so outstanding and just sort of thinking through this idea.

有没有那么一个瞬间，你帮他意识到他其实可以创业？或者你们聊过，比如‘我觉得你特别适合当创始人’这样的对话？

Was there any one moment when you kind of helped him see that he might want to start a company or or, you know, maybe a conversation you had with him around like, hey, I actually think you'd be a good founder?

我们其实一直跟他说过这些。

I think we were telling him that for a while.

所以当初把他放进这个项目时，我们就想：嘿，你不妨试试看，看看这想法能不能做大。

So part of putting him into this program, we were like, hey, we think you could actually explore something and see if it's big enough.

就算项目结束了，我们还是跟他说：别停啊，我们想一直知道你在忙什么。

Even after the program, we were saying, hey, we want to keep knowing what working on.

后来吉米休了陪产假，孩子出生了，那时候我们就觉得，他终于能喘口气了，脑子也会从这团迷雾里清醒过来，有了孩子，对他来说，就像迎来了新的人生阶段。

And then finally, I think Jimmy went on paternity leave, so his son was born, and it was just sort of this moment where we're like, he is now taking a little bit of time off, and his brain is going to sort of emerge from this fog, and he's going to have this baby, and it's gonna feel like a new era for him.

对。

Mhmm.

也许，就是这个时候了。

And maybe this is the moment.

那你跟我讲讲，那一刻对你来说是什么样的？

So walk us through what that moment was like for you.

我记得特别清楚。

Oh, I remember it very vividly.

她说：‘我现在就可以给你写投资意向书。’

She said, hey, I'm ready to write you a term sheet right now.

那时候离我儿子出生也就两三个星期了。

And we were something like two to three weeks out from my son being born.

我就回她：‘让我先把孩子生下来，九十天后再找你。’

So my response was, let me have this baby and come back to you in ninety days.

广告后继续。

More after the break.

很多工作建议听着挺有道理，可真用起来就崩了。

A lot of work advice sounds good in theory, but falls apart when you actually try to use it.

我就是要改变这种状况。

I'm on a mission to change that.

我是莫莉·格雷厄姆，创业者，也是TED旗下《工作人生》播客的新主持人。

I'm Molly Graham, a company builder and the new host of Work Life, a podcast from TED.

我职业生涯都在快速成长的公司里，我最确定的一点就是：工作从来就不是井然有序的。

I've spent my career inside fast growing companies, and one thing I know for sure is that work is messy.

在这季新节目中，我很期待和大家分享我与创业者、运营者以及创意人士的对话，聊聊他们最光鲜成就背后那些没人会在领英上发的真实故事。

In this new season, I'm excited to share my conversations with founders, operators, and creatives about the real story behind their shiniest successes, the lessons that no one ever posts on LinkedIn.

现在就去《Work Life》收听吧，各大播客平台都能找到。

Listen now on Work Life wherever you get your podcasts.

好了，我们继续回到本期节目。

And now, back to the episode.

我想先停一下。

So I just want to take a pause here.

我的意思是，你刚当了爸爸。

I mean, you just had your first kid.

我印象最深的一件事，就是我们俩的孩子刚出生时，小得不得了，简直跟个卷饼差不多。

One of my biggest memories, you know, with both our kids is just they're so tiny, you know, almost like the size of a burrito.

头几周，他们总贴在你胸口蹭着，你明明一堆事要处理，睡也睡不好，但就在换尿布、做家务、忙这忙那的间隙里，我发现自己居然有大把时间能胡思乱想。

They're, you know, those first couple weeks, they're snuggling on your chest, you have a lot to do, you're not sleeping very well, but you know, between all the tasks and chores and diaper changes, you know, I remember having a lot of time to think.

所以，那时候你脑子里到底在想些什么？

So talk me through like what's going through your mind at that point.

事情一下子变得简单了。

It became very simple.

像我们这种行业，我当时干的那份工作，不管怎样，加班都是家常便饭。

In the types of careers that we are in, that I was in at the time, no matter what, I would be working long hours.

至少在短期内，我没法像我希望的那样多陪在孩子身边。

I wouldn't be there, at least for the near term, quite as much as I wish I could be.

我突然意识到，作为大公司高管回家时的状态，和作为自己创业的人回家时的状态，那简直是天壤之别。

And it dawned on me that there was going to be such a colossal difference between the energy I would bring home as an executive at a mega corporation and the energy I would bring home as somebody that was building something that's ours.

很多人有了第一个孩子后，第一反应就是求稳定。

You know, a lot of people, they have their first kid, they seek stability.

别人可能会觉得，你这选择更大胆，但也更冒险。

People might think of this as a bolder but riskier path.

那你当时是怎么权衡稳定和风险的？怎么就敢一头扎进来？

Like, how did you think about that kind of stability risk trade off, you know, jumping into this?

我确实想了很多，但最后我觉得，真正的稳定，是能掌握自己的人生方向。

I thought about it a lot, but ultimately, I believe the greatest form of stability is having more control over your own destiny.

所以我当时就是这么想的。

So that's how I looked at it.

我稍后想聊聊这个系列，但你能先说说 Plug 现在的情况吗？比如谁在用它、它能帮用户做什么，大概是个什么规模？

So I wanna get into the series a in a second, but can you just describe sort of where Plug is now in terms of, you know, who's using it, what does it do for them, and kind of like a rough sense of scale?

是的。

Yeah.

当然。

Absolutely.

Plug 本质上是个平台，主要帮人买卖二手电动车。

Plug is a marketplace at its core and it facilitates buying and selling of used electric vehicles.

我们当初启动这个项目，是基于一个想法：电动车应该被区别对待。因为燃油车一出厂，性能就固定了。

We got off the ground with the thesis that electric vehicles should be represented in a differentiated way because when a combustion vehicle rolls off the line, its capability is static.

除非你动手改装，否则它的配置一辈子都不会变。

The equipment on it, unless it's physically modified, is not going to change.

但电动车不一样，它能靠远程软件更新，一夜之间就提升性能。

Whereas an electric vehicle can change its capability overnight through over the air software updates.

所以对于买卖双方来说，车上的软件功能、车载硬件、电池性能、充电网络权限这些因素都非常关键，但这些信息普通人根本没法轻易收集齐全。

So factors such as their software enabled features, their computer hardware, their batteries, their charging network access, all of these factors really matter to buyers and sellers, but this information is not straightforward for anybody to just collect.

所以我们一开始就主打「要清晰展示这些信息、还要会展示」，这个核心差异帮我们站稳了脚跟，效果确实很好。

So developing the expertise around what needs to be represented and how was our initial differentiator, and it worked.

我们有明确的数据能证明：在Plug平台成交的二手车，大部分都卖得比别处更快，或是卖价更高，甚至两项都占了。

We have very clear cut data that shows that most EVs that are sold on Plug are either going to sell faster or for more money or both.

这都是因为我们给整个交易过程注入了足够的信任背书。

And it's because of the confidence that we've injected into the transaction.

对

Yeah.

我之前一直没完全意识到，给电动车估值和给燃油车估值差别居然这么大。

I think that the piece that I didn't totally appreciate was how different it is to value an EV versus an internal combustion engine car.

我之前根本没想过去深究这一点，

Like, I hadn't thought to question that at

完全没想过。

all.

对。

Right.

但他亲身经历过，汽车的实际老化方式完全不同，因为电动车的运动部件少得多，所以里程数的重要性远不如电池的健康状况。

But he had seen it viscerally from the fact that the way a car actually ages is very different because you don't have as many moving parts, And so mileage is less relevant than the health of your battery.

这些车本质上已经变成了带轮子的移动电池，还带着软件。

And then these cars, they've become basically roving batteries on wheels with software.

而软件本身的价值也可以有多种评估方式。

And then the software also can be valued in different ways.

当汽车变成这样时，怎么给它定价？尤其是在二手车市场，我以前根本没认真想过，整个行业也没跟上这一步。

And so when the car actually changes to that degree, how do you value it, especially in a used car market, was not something that I had really thought through, and the the world hadn't really caught up to that either.

这让我觉得特别有意思。

And so that was interesting to me.

我一直很佩服你的一点是，你特别擅长讲自己的故事，融资也做得特别好。

One of the things that I've admired about you is you seem to be phenomenal at telling your story and doing a good job with fundraising.

你这已经是第二次（或：好几次）经历这个过程了。

You've now been through that a couple times.

我想挨个聊聊这些事。

I'd like to kind of touch on each of those.

咱们先说说这个种子轮吧。

Let's start with this seed round.

对吧？

Right?

你家里刚添了娃，一边忙着带孩子，一边还得去见投资人，Ann 提到过，Floodgate 愿意投钱。

So you have a newborn at home, you're pitching investors, Ann had said, you know, Floodgate was willing to write a check.

这个过程怎么样？

How was that process?

真是特别幸运。

It was really fortunate.

Floodgate 领投了这一轮，马上就把一半的钱投了进来，还帮我们牵线搭桥，包括介绍了你。

Floodgate led the round, they filled half of it immediately and made a few introductions, including to you.

那真是

That's

没错。

right.

我很快就明白了融资轮次的门道，以前我可太天真了。

And I learned really quickly about funding round dynamics that I was naive to before.

说真的，我们挺幸运的，虽然面临资金超额认购这种压力，但没法把所有感兴趣的投资者都收进来。

And we were fortunate to be in the, to be honest, stressful situation of being oversubscribed and not being in a position to bring everybody on board that resonated as an investor.

最后，原本计划250万美元的首轮融资，最终总共拿到了670万美元的种子资金。

In the end, what would have been a $2,500,000 initial close ended at 6,700,000 in total seed funding.

吉米真是个特别有天赋的融资高手。

And, you know, Jimmy just seems to be a really talented fundraiser.

对。

Yeah.

你觉得他凭什么这么擅长融资？

What do you think about him, you know, makes him good at fundraising?

他总在琢磨投资人可能会有什么疑虑，所以一直在反复练习怎么讲自己的故事，怎么回应质疑——这种事一般人根本懒得去准备。

He's always thinking through what the objections might be, and so he's practicing constantly the stories, how he's gonna tell that story, how he's gonna respond to an objection in a way that I don't think people want to do.

他还会用数据、图表和文章来支撑观点，不是光讲个故事就完事。

And then he backs it up, I love with like facts and like graphs and articles.

他讲的可不是空口无凭的故事。

It's not just a story that he's spinning.

那咱们接着聊A轮吧。

So yeah, let's move on to the series a.

我觉得吧，每一轮融资都不一样。

So I think, you know, every round of funding is different.

我的体会是，越往后越难搞。

And you know, my experience has been that they just get harder and harder over time.

说说你们A轮是怎么搞定的？

Tell me the story about how your series a came about.

是啊。

Yeah.

他们俩根本就毫无共同点。

They had absolutely nothing in common.

我觉得我做对的一件事，就是在种子轮刚结束不久，就赶紧找人引荐，去见投资人。

I I would say the the smart thing that I did was met investors with introduction calls very early on, effectively right after closing the seed round.

等我真正开始筹A轮的时候，我已经跟七十多家A轮基金保持联系，定期更新进展，展示我们的成果。

By the time I decided to start raising the series a, I had been building relationships and periodically checking in and showcasing our work with over 70 series a funds.

我从头到尾都直说我在融资，没藏着掖着。

And I was transparent about the fact that I was raising.

我看到好多创始人明明在融资，却装作没这回事，偷偷准备材料，搞得很神秘。

I see a lot of founders out there that try to be coy about it and put together materials and pretend that they're not.

我直接跟他们说：我们现在准备好了，因为我们已经建成了可复制的增长模型，而且马上就要进入2026年——我觉得那一年会是美国二手电动车的爆发年，因为《通胀削减法案》带来的大量租赁车即将集中返厂。

I was very explicit that we were ready to do this now that we had built a repeatable growth model and we were heading directly into 2026, which I believe is the year of the used EV in this country because of the mountain of lease returns that are about to start coming back from the inflation reduction acts impacts.

整个过程花了七周。

So it was a seven week process.

我一共面了上百家公司，最后选了Lightspeed风投的金融科技团队。

I I had over 100 meetings and ultimately we signed with Lightspeed Venture Partners, specifically their fintech team.

你说会有一大波二手电动车涌出来？

You said there's a mountain of used EVs coming down the pike.

你详细说说，这会带来什么影响？

You know, tell us more about what that impact's gonna be.

是的。

Yeah.

2023年《通胀削减法案》生效了，其中一项内容是对新购买的电动车提供税收抵免。

So what happened was in 2023, the inflation reduction act took effect and one of the many components of that was a tax credit for newly purchased electric vehicles.

但法律里有个漏洞，对租赁电动车的限制要少得多。

There was a loophole in the way the law was written that also applied to leasing with far fewer restrictions.

结果呢，一夜之间，全美卖出去的新电动车有一半以上都被租了出去，租期通常是三年。

So what happened was basically overnight, over half of new EVs that were sold in this country were leased generally for thirty six month terms.

现在三年过去了，未来三年内，预计会有110万辆电动车租赁到期返还市场。

So three years later is now, and there's an estimated 1,100,000 EV leases coming back over the next three years.

所以整个市场将迎来爆发式增长。

So we're gonna be looking at very rapid growth of the market overall.

我预测，到2030年，市场规模会扩大八倍，全国总价值将超过一千亿美元。

By my projection, it should eight x between now and 2030, at which point it should be worth north of a $100,000,000,000 nationwide.

天啊。

Wow.

回到这个系列，我跟很多这类融资轮次打交道的经验是，整个过程特别疯狂。

Back to the series a, you know, my experience with a lot of these rounds is that they're they're very manic in a sense.

你出去见人，第一次面谈，嗯，那感觉真棒。

You go out there, you have your first meetings Yep.

特别激动人心。

And it's very exciting.

你总觉得自己第一次见面谈得特别好，然后开始有第二次、第三次面谈，接着就开始收到拒绝。

You know, you always think that first meeting goes well, and then you start having some second meetings, and then you start getting the no's.

那时候才是最打击人的阶段。

And then that is like the most depressive point.

在终于拿到第一个同意之前，你得挨个被拒绝。

And you keep getting no's before you finally get your first yes.

我的意思是，你能跟我们说说，你当时经历的这个过程到底是怎样的吗？

I mean, what you know, talk us through just like what was that process like for you?

跟你刚才说的完全一样。

No different from what you just described.

我甚至还做了一个演示，把每一封邮件的截图都放了进去。

And in fact, I put together a presentation with a screenshot of every note email that we got.

我硬着头皮，把每一封都大声念了一遍。

And I I went through the the painful exercise of reading out loud every single one.

结果你猜怎么着？还挺搞笑的。

But it actually became funny.

好笑是因为它们说的都差不多，表达拒绝的方式简直一个模子刻出来的。

It was funny because they were basically all the same, how they would articulate the past.

他们都是怎么说的？

What was that language they'd use?

最容易拿来开玩笑的那种，就是一直在场边给你加油打气，翻来覆去就那几句。

The the easiest one to make fun of is cheering you from the sidelines, sort of just like on repeat.

对。

Yeah.

我的天，那种表情真的太难了。

I mean, that face is so hard.

对吧？

Right?

我记得我们筹C轮的时候，正是那些拒绝一个接一个涌来的时刻，我吓得直接给联合创始人打电话，整个人都崩溃了，结果他居然把我安抚下来了。

I remember when we were raising our series c and kinda like in that moment where all the noes started coming in, I remember calling up my co founder just like in this full blown panic and he was able to calm me down.

你是单打独斗的创始人，我特别好奇，你这种时候会找谁倾诉？

You know, you're a solo founder, so I'm really curious to who you call in moments like that.

我其实跟安聊过，她也提到过这事，我这就放一段我们对话的最后一个小片段给你听。

And I actually talked to Ann and she brought this up too, so let me play you one last clip from our conversation.

我一直觉得，当创始人、当CEO，这活儿特别孤单，需要的耐力简直超乎想象。

I always think about the fact that being a founder and being a CEO is such a lonely job, and the stamina required for it is just extraordinary.

所以我真心希望——也是我对我们所有合作的CEO们的期望——你们都能有靠谱的支持网络。

And so I hope and this is sort of a hope I have for all the CEOs that we work with is that they have the right support networks.

有时候，这种支持就来自你的团队。

Sometimes it's found within your team.

你的团队本身就是个超强的支持系统。

Like, your team is an incredible support network.

但有时候你更需要其他创始人，他们懂这种感觉，也会告诉你：其实他们也没那么厉害。

But sometimes it's like you need other CEOs who understand what it's like to be in that situation and who will tell you that they're not crushing it.

这真的太有共鸣了。

Oh, it definitely resonates.

Ann说得对。

Ann's right.

这种职业太孤独了，根本没人能真正理解。

It's lonely in that it's just an unrelatable career path.

我有几个朋友也是创始人，其中好几个还跟我一起在特斯拉干过。

I have several friends that are founders and several of them that I actually worked with at Tesla.

他们是我最能倾诉的对象，因为咱们能从好几个层面互相理解。

They were some of the best people to confide in because they could relate on multiple vectors.

他们自己也经历过类似的融资过程，更别提还一起熬过我们当年那种环境了。

Having gone through similar fundraising journeys themselves, let alone having lived through the environment we were in prior.

我还有一个CEO教练。

And I do have a CEO coach as well.

她在我整个过程中帮了大忙，让我一直保持清醒和专注。

And she played an absolutely critical role in helping me keep my head in the game all the way through.

我有几个关系特别铁的朋友，当然还有我的家人。

I have a few friendships that are very core to my existence and of course I have my family.

你知道吗，很多人觉得创业者都是冒险家，但其实最核心的特质其实是乐观。

You know, I think a lot of entrepreneurs are seen as risk takers, but really the main trait is is actually being an optimist.

别人看到的是风险，你看到的却是机会，对吧？

You know, some people see risk, you see opportunity, right?

你认同这种说法吗？

Like is that something you would identify with?

当然认同。

Oh, absolutely.

你知道的，当你到了公司这个阶段——在成长、有真实客户、有真实收入、面临真实竞争压力的时候，每天都有事儿在着火。

As you know, every day when you show up to work, when you're at this stage of company, you're growing, you have real customers, real revenue, real competitive pressure, something is on fire every single day.

你得抱着一种心态进场——不管遇到啥难题，你都能搞定。

And you have to enter it with the mindset that no matter what gets thrown at you, you're going to figure it out.

要是没有这种心态，我真的不知道谁能撑得下去。

Without that, I don't know how anybody can do this.

我们正在打造的很多东西，其实都是带着理想主义的。

And so much of what we are building is aspirational.

我们想重新构建整个行业，背后有着崇高的使命。

We are trying to rebuild an entire industry with noble cause behind it.

这不只是经济影响的问题，更关乎我自己和整个团队对电动交通的深切认同。

It's not just about economic impact, it's about the great importance to myself and the whole team around electrifying transportation.

而且

And

休假期里，我一直在想：如果我做了这件事，未来会怎样？如果不做，又会怎样？我决定全力拥抱最乐观的那个结果。

then while on leave, thinking through what the future would look like if I did do it versus didn't do it, I wanted to lean all the way into the most optimistic outcome possible.

甚至有些想法，还得追溯到我自己的初心——想象我们办公室的样子，看着我儿子见证它从小小的萌芽，一点点长成庞然大物。

And some of that even rooted back to my own origin story of thinking through the office we would have and my son watching it evolve into something small, into something huge.