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我们拒绝了他们。
We rejected them.
因为当时我们没有意识到，投资早期初创公司时，更重要的是创始人，而不是创意。
Because at that point, we did not realize that when you fund an early stage startup, it's more about the founders than the idea.
但我清楚地记得，和他们聊天让我多么享受。
But I distinctly remember how much I just enjoyed talking to them.
然后到了下一个星期一，保罗联系了他们，说：我们真的很喜欢你们。
And then the next Monday, Paul reached out to them and was like, we really liked you guys.
你觉得我们能不能一起头脑风暴一下新的创意？
Do you think we could maybe brainstorm a new idea?
他们真的从康涅狄格州的火车上下来，又上了另一列开往波士顿的火车。
And they literally got off the train in Connecticut and got back on a train to Boston.
然后他们当时就想出了Reddit的创意，并且加入了我们的孵化项目。
And they came up with the idea for Reddit then, and they were in our batch.
欢迎收听《飞跃前进》，这是一档关于创始人以及那些在他人之前就相信他们的人的节目。
Welcome to Leap Forward, a show about founders and the people who believed in them before anyone else.
我是大卫·里斯琴科，在这一集中，我们要采访一位为众多创始人提供起点的人。
I'm David Rysenko, and for this first episode, a person who's given so many founders their start.
我是杰西卡·利文斯顿。
I'm Jessica Livingston.
我是Y Combinator的联合创始人。
I'm a co founder at Y Combinator.
我想以杰西卡作为本系列的开篇，因为她不仅在我的人生中至关重要，也影响了无数其他创始人的命运。
I wanted to start this series with Jessica because she's not only been pivotal in my life, but in the lives of so many other founders.
到目前为止，Y Combinator已经孵化了超过5000家公司，总估值接近一万亿美元。
So far, YC has launched over 5,000 companies worth almost a trillion dollars.
这一次，我想听听她的初心故事。
And this time, I wanted to hear her origin story.
我第一次见到杰西卡是在2006年，当时我的初创公司Weebly通过了Y Combinator的面试，那次面试持续了十五分钟。
I first met Jessica in 2006 in a fifteen minute interview when my startup, Weebly, got accepted into YC.
但那天面试中还有另一个人，我也想和他聊聊，以帮助我们完整地还原这个故事。
But there was someone else in the interview that day who I also wanted to talk to to help us fill in the story.
一个比任何人都更能说明杰西卡在YC所起作用的人。
Someone who could speak to Jessica's role better than anyone else.
我是保罗·格雷厄姆，也是杰西卡·利文斯顿的丈夫。
I'm Paul Graham, and I'm Jessica Livingston's husband.
你觉得人们有时忽略了杰西卡对YC的哪些贡献？
What do you think people sometimes miss about what Jessica's contributed to YC?
天啊。
Oh my god.
他们忽略了全部。
They miss everything.
现在有这么多模仿YC的机构。
Like, so there's so many copies of YC now.
但为什么他们复制不了那种魔力？
But why can't they reproduce the magic?
因为他们没有杰西卡，或者他们雇了个人来扮演杰西卡。
Because they don't have Jessica, or they have someone they hired to be a Jessica.
对吧？
Right?
但那不一样。
But it's not the same.
今天，聊聊Y Combinator魔力背后的故事。
Today, the story behind the magic of Y Combinator.
你最近怎么样？
How are you doing?
嗯，我挺好的。
Well, I'm good.
今天能和你聊天我太兴奋了。
Look, super excited to talk to you today.
你对初创企业产生了巨大的影响。
You've had such a huge impact on startups.
你对我影响巨大，而且你以一种非凡的能力著称，能迅速而准确地读懂他人。
You've had a huge impact on me, and you famously have this uncanny ability to just read people really quickly and accurately.
所以我特别想要深入了解一下你的过往经历，想知道这种能力是怎么形成的。
And so I really wanted to dive into a little bit more of your background and kinda where that came from.
我特别希望能从头了解一下：你出生在哪里，你的成长经历是什么样的？
I'd love to just understand, just from the very beginning, where were you born, and what was your childhood like growing up?
哦，
Oh,
我出生在明尼阿波利斯，但只在那里住了几个月，因为我六个月大的时候，我的父母就离婚了。
Well, I was born in Minneapolis, but I only lived there for a few months because when I was six months old, my parents got divorced.
后来我跟着爸爸搬去了波士顿，那是他的老家。
And I moved with my dad to Boston where he was from.
我的童年呢，其实还算正常，虽然我从小就没了母亲——因为我一直是由爸爸和我的奶奶抚养长大的，我一直和奶奶住在一起。
And my childhood, you know, was pretty normal considering I didn't have a mother because I I really I was raised by my dad and his mother, my grandmother, who I lived with.
工作日我都跟奶奶住，爸爸那时候住在离我们大概1.5英里远的地方。
I'd lived with my grandmother during the week, and my dad lived about a mile and a half away.
周末我会去爸爸家里住，而他每天晚上都会来奶奶家吃晚饭。
And I'd go to my dad's house on weekends, and he'd come to dinner at my grandmother's every night.
但我的童年还是很标准、很快乐的。
But my childhood was, you know, pretty pretty standard, pretty happy.
是的。
Yeah.
跟我多讲讲你的爸爸和奶奶吧。
Tell me more about your dad and your grandmother.
他们是什么样的人？
What were they like as people?
我爸爸太棒了，你得想象一下，在二十世纪七十年代，一个单亲父亲抚养女儿是什么情景。
Well, my dad was amazing because you have to imagine a single dad in the nineteen seventies being a parent to a daughter.
那时候，真的没有父亲会这么做。
Like, no dad did that, really.
所以他把我养大，我永远心怀感激。
And so he raised me, and so I'm, like, forever grateful.
他一生都在吉列公司工作。
He worked for the Gillette company his entire life.
因此，我从未了解过初创公司。
And so I had never known about startups as a result.
我以为，你所做的事情就是去一家大公司工作，尽可能长久地待在那里，享受良好的退休计划等等。
I thought, you know, what you do is you go work for a big company, and you stay there for as long as you can and have a good, you know, retirement plan there and all of that.
但我的祖母，也就是他母亲，在她62岁的时候收养了我，你敢相信吗？
But my grandmother, his mother, she took me in when she was, like, 62 years old, if you can believe it.
想象一下，她自己抚养了四个孩子，到了62岁，当她已经有了孩子时，又收养了一个婴儿。
Imagine, like, raising four kids on your own, and then at 62, when you have kids, bringing in a baby.
是的。
Yeah.
所以我非常感激她。
All over So I owe so much to her.
我的意思是，我成长过程中感到非常安心的是，她一直都在。
I mean, because what I found very comforting growing up was that she was always there.
我总能依靠她。
I could always count on her.
嗯嗯。
Mhmm.
因此，她一直是我生活中稳定而温暖的依靠。
And as a result, she was just such a sort of constant comforting presence for me.
所以，我真的很幸运，有祖母和父亲这样的支持团队。
So I was really lucky to have that team of my grandmother and my dad.
你觉得，你从小是不是就有一种特别敏锐的识人能力？
Do you think there was anything growing up that kind of you know, you famously have this, sense for people.
你觉得这种能力是从哪里来的？
Like, where do you think that came from?
是童年时期就有的，还是后来才发展出来的？
Was it something growing up, or was it something that developed later?
我觉得是童年时期就有的。
I think it was growing up.
我只是觉得，这可能是与生俱来的。
I just I think I think it's inborn.
很多人问我这个问题，我感觉有点尴尬，因为我不确定自己是否真的那么擅长读懂人的性格。
A lot of people ask me this question, and I feel a little bit awkward because I don't know if I'm that great at reading people's characters.
但从小我就因为是独生子女，所以身边有很多成年人。
But from a very young age because I was an only child, and so I think I had a lot of adults around me.
因此我总是试图去理解他们，弄清楚他们在想什么，反正别想瞒过我。
And so I was always trying to, you know, read them and what's going on and, like, you could never get anything past me.
如果成年人想敷衍我，我马上就能察觉到，然后就会问很多问题。
Like, if an adult tried to sort of brush me off somehow, I'd I'd know that they were trying to do that, and I'd ask a lot of questions.
我非常好奇。
I was very inquisitive.
我对人类心理学非常感兴趣。
And I'm just very interested in human psychology.
我不确定。
I don't know.
这已经融入我的骨子里了。
It's in me.
那时候，你有没有想象过自己长大后会成为什么样的人？
Do you remember at that point in time, like, did you have something you imagined being when you grew up?
没有，大卫。
No, David.
我可能会成为你采访过的最无聊的人，因为我根本不知道自己想做什么。
I'm gonna be the most boring person you interview because I had no idea what I wanted to do.
所有事情都只关注眼前。
Everything was very near term.
就是那种，接下来日程上有什么？
It was sort of like, what's next on the schedule here?
你知道的。
You know?
好吧。
Okay.
我现在上高中了。
I'm going to high school now.
好的。
Okay.
接下来，我要上大学了。
Next, I'm going to college.
我毕业了，很多朋友都已经有了工作。
And I graduated, and some of a lot of my friends had jobs.
我当时就想，我根本不知道自己擅长什么，或者想做什么。
And I was like, I have no clue what I even am good at or wanna do.
这可是1993年。
Like, this was in 1993.
明白吗？
Okay?
那时候还没有互联网。
So this is before the Internet.
所以你得在报纸上找工作。
So you're looking for jobs in a newspaper.
我的意思是，听众听到这个一定会震惊。
I mean, listeners are just gonna die when they hear that.
所以我回到家，很不幸的是，我从大学回家的第二天，我奶奶因癌症去世了。
So I came home, and very sadly, like, the day after I came home from college, my grandmother passed away of cancer.
癌症。
Cancer.
这让我陷入了一个不太好的状态。
So that set me off on not a great course.
我当时非常悲伤，你可以想象。
I was sort of very sad, as you can imagine.
但我住在家里，和我爸一起，心里想着天哪。
But I was living at home with my dad, kind of like, oh gosh.
我到底该做什么呢？
What do I even do?
我一个本地朋友，她参加了一个富达投资的培训项目，并且找到了一份工作。
And a friend of mine from the town, she had gotten a job in, like, a training program at Fidelity Investments.
所以当时我在富达投资的电话客服岗位工作。
So this was on the phones at Fidelity Investments, like customer service.
于是我心想，好吧，我可以试试看。
And so I thought, well, I could try it out.
我的意思是，我真是懵得不行。
I mean, I really that's how clueless.
我当时根本不知道自己是否对金融感兴趣，但就在这个培训项目里，我上了夜班，接电话。
I was just like, I don't even know if I am interested in finance, but I was, like, on the phones on the night shift in this training program.
就是接电话。
Like, taking calls.
我的意思是，我在富达真正不喜欢的是，他们监控你的一举一动。
I mean, what I really didn't like at Fidelity was that they monitored your every action.
在那些电话系统里，他们知道每通电话持续多久、你挂断后多久才接下一通、你上厕所花了多久——所有细节都一清二楚。
Like, on those phones, they knew how long every call was, how long you were off a call before you took the next call, how long you took going to the bathroom, like, everything.
那种压力真的很大，你知道吗？
And it was very intense, you know?
是的
Yeah.
我说，这不适合我。
And I said, you know, this isn't for me.
对。
Yeah.
跟我聊聊从那之后的转变吧。
Talk to me a little bit about what kind of that transition from.
我很想听听你接下来的几份工作经历，以及你是如何第一次对创业产生兴趣的。
I'm curious to hear those kind of next few job experiences, and then how you first got interested or kinda came upon this idea of startups.
是的。
Yeah.
说实话，我的职业背景和Y Combinator之间根本没有任何逻辑关联。
There really is like no rhyme or reason in my professional background, honestly, to Y Combinator.
每个人总是希望看到，那些后来做出一番成就的人，从小就立志如此，比如卖柠檬水、小时候就做生意赚钱之类的创业经历。
Like, everyone always wants to see some clear indication that someone who does something interesting later in life, like, always wanted to be that way or, like, that I sold lemonade or hustled and made money as a child somehow or was entrepreneurial.
我不是。
I was not.
我是个勤奋的人。
I was a hard worker.
我会这么说。
I will say that.
我是个可靠又勤奋的员工。
I was, like, a reliable hard worker.
我很少请病假。
I rarely called in sick.
所以那时候我的工作还有一个情况是，你不能在简历上留空档，否则看起来会很不好。
And so my jobs back then the other thing is, like, you couldn't have, like, a gap in your resume or it looked bad.
所以我从不会在找到下一份工作之前离开上一份工作。
So I never left one job until I had a new one going.
我几乎从来没有时间去思考我想做什么。
Like, I almost never had time to think about what I wanna do.
所以我当时在一家投资者关系公司工作，那非常有趣。
So I was at this investor relations firm, and that was very interesting.
但那简直就是血汗工厂。
But it was a sweatshop.
你知道，如果你六点就走了，那就算早下班了。
You know, if you left at 6PM, that was an early night.
对。
Right.
我记得我以前和一个女同事一起工作，唉，她特别虚伪，总是加班，蹭免费晚餐。
And I remember this one woman I worked with, ugh, she was such a phony, and she would stay late, get the free dinner.
她会把费用算到客户头上。
She'd, you know, charge it to a client.
嗯。
Mhmm.
她会给家人打电话，打所有长途电话。
She'd call her family, you know, make all her long distance calls.
这都晚上8点半了。
This is at, like, 08:30PM.
然后到了9点左右，她会给所有上司发邮件，说一下自己刚完成了这项工作。
And then at, you know, 9PM, she'd write an email to all of our bosses saying, just a quick update that I've done this.
所以，你看，时间戳显示她晚上9点还在公司。
So, you know, time stamp, she was there at 9PM.
你懂的。
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
就是这种事。
That kind of thing.
我在那儿待了一阵子，但后来我觉得这实在太糟糕了。
And so I was there for a while, but then I was like, this is pretty grim.
于是之后我来了个彻底转变，说我真正喜欢做的事其实是策划活动。
So after that, I did a total about face and I said, what I really love doing is sort of planning events.
于是我去了《美食与美酒》杂志工作，负责他们每年在阿斯彭举办的大活动。
So I got a job at Food and Wine magazine working on their big event out in Aspen every year.
我的意思是，大卫，这段经历真是五花八门。
I mean, it's just such a hodgepodge of experience, David.
你知道的？
You know?
像你这样一毕业就创业的人，可能很难想象从一份工作跳到另一份工作，会这么奇怪。
For someone who started a startup right out of college like you, probably can't imagine the, like, weirdness of going from different job to different job.
后来我搬回波士顿，住回我爸家，并在一家投资银行的市场部找到了工作。
Then I moved back to Boston, back to my dad's house, and got a job at an investment bank where I worked in their marketing department.
然后泡沫破裂了，事情开始逐渐走下坡路。
And then the bubble burst, and then things started to sort of go downhill.
2003年的时候，你在波士顿一定能感受到那种氛围。
You know, 2003, you could feel it in Boston for sure.
是的。
Yeah.
我记得那时候我开始和保罗约会。
And I remember at this point, I'd started dating Paul.
我记得我对保罗说，现在在这里工作真的一点都不有趣。
And I remember saying to Paul, this is just now so not fun working here.
我记得当时和她约会时想，她在这家无聊的投资银行真是浪费了。
I remember as I was dating her thinking, she is so wasted on this lame investment bank.
她工作非常努力。
She worked so hard.
我觉得她这辈子可能从来没请过病假。
I don't think she had ever taken a sick day off like in her life.
我记得有一次她得了流感，中午就回家了。
I think there was one point where she had the flu and she went home at lunch.
对吧？
Right?
但她为他们工作得实在太拼命了。
But like she worked so ridiculously hard for them.
你知道，这有什么好处呢？
And you know, what good does it do?
对吧？
Right?
所以她绝对是那种你肯定想一起共事的人。
So she definitely seemed like the kind of person you would want to work with for sure.
我就说，我得给自己找一个让我感兴趣、能让我充满热情的项目，你知道的。
And I said, I need to create like a project for myself that I'm interested in, that I can be passionate about, you know.
那就是我开始写《创者之路》的时候。
And that's when I started writing Founders at Work.
我是在业余时间做的。
And I did that on the side.
这完全是由于和保罗交往，并且第一次通过和他交谈了解了初创公司。
And that was fully a result of dating Paul and sort of learning about startups for the first time in my life, talking to him.
我以前根本不认识任何程序员或创办过初创公司的人。
I didn't know any programmers or people who started a startup.
那时候我甚至不知道‘初创公司’这个词。
I didn't even know the word startup back then.
从你的角度看，你还记得她是如何最初对初创公司产生兴趣的吗？
Do you remember from your perspective how she first got interested in startups?
我觉得是因为和我以及我的朋友们聊天。
I think it was from talking to me and all my friends.
因为你知道，罗伯特、特雷弗还有我们认识的其他人都参与过初创公司。
Because, you know, Robert and Trevor and other people we knew had all been involved with startups.
所以和我们聊天时，她觉得一切都更加随机、混乱且不负责任。
And so talking to us, it seemed like everything was much more random and chaotic and irresponsible.
但显然，那里存在着一些机会，让你可以去创办一家公司做点什么。
There was clearly something there that you could go and start a company to do something.
而在过去，创办公司意味着要建工厂，那可没那么容易。
Where back in the days when starting a company meant having a factory, that was not so easy.
对吧？
Right?
而现在，只要几个人在房间里带着笔记本电脑就能做到。
And now just a couple of people in a room with laptops could do it.
所以见到保罗和他的朋友们，我觉得非常有趣，我对此产生了浓厚的兴趣。
And so meeting Paul and his friends, it was very interesting to me, and I became really fascinated by it.
我读了杰里·卡普兰的书《初创公司》。
And I read Jerry Kaplan's book, Start Up.
我着迷了。
I was hooked.
我们马上回来。
We'll be right back.
跟上这个经济形势很重要。
Keeping up with this economy matters.
在一个充满热点评论和噪音的世界里，Marketplace 做法与众不同。
And in a world full of hot takes and noise, marketplace does things differently.
我是Marketplace的主持人凯·里斯代尔，这是一档每日播客，致力于提供独立、屡获殊荣的新闻报道，帮助你更深入了解这个经济。
I'm Kai Risdale, the host of marketplace, a daily podcast that delivers independent award winning journalism dedicated to making you smarter about this economy.
你可以在Spotify上收听《Marketplace》。
You can listen to marketplace on Spotify.
现在回到访谈。
And now back to the interview.
听起来像初创公司，我的意思是，根据你描述的早期工作经历，你学到了很多最终带到了Y Combinator的东西，但也学到了一些你不喜欢的东西，比如人们虚伪。
It sounds like startups I mean, way that you describe your early work experience, you almost you learned a lot that you eventually brought to Y Combinator, but you also learned some of the stuff that you didn't like, like people being phony Yeah.
在那种企业工作环境中。
In that corporate work environment.
听起来当你发现初创公司时，那简直像是一次重大发现。
And it sounds like when you found startups, that was kind of like almost a big reveal.
以下是关于初创公司让我印象深刻的一点。
Well, here's one of the things that really struck me about startups.
我喜欢初创公司的地方，与我在投资银行工作时不同。
What I loved about startups as opposed to when I worked at the investment bank.
在投资银行，等级制度中，营销部门排在很靠后的位置。
At the investment bank, on the pecking order, like, the marketing group was so far down.
因此，你知道，在市场不景气的时候，很多人会受到不公正的对待，有人告诉我，像你这样的人根本不配在这里工作。
And as a result, you know, a lot of people you get treated not super great by some people who you know, I was told there, you don't even deserve to work here in a bad market.
在经济不好的时候，根本没必要设立市场部门，你知道的。
They shouldn't even have a marketing department, you know, in bad times.
当别人对你不够友善时，这种感觉真的很打击士气。
And it's sort of demoralizing when people are not that nice to you.
确实如此。
For sure.
但我注意到，那些不够友善的人，往往也只是平庸之辈，你知道的，他们的能力并不怎么样。
And what I noticed though was, like, a lot of these people who weren't that nice were also just mediocre sort of players, you know, not that good at what they did.
于是我心想，我为什么要这么努力，拼命工作，却要和这些能力平平、还让人讨厌的人一起共事呢？
And I thought, why am I working so hard and trying my hardest working with these people who aren't that good and are unpleasant to work with too?
我觉得这不对劲，平庸的人怎么能主导一切呢？
And I thought that doesn't seem right that the mediocre people are running the show.
嗯。
Mhmm.
我观察到初创公司的情况是，如果有人平庸，就会被解雇。
And what I've observed with startups is, like, if there's a mediocre person, they get fired.
你知道的。
You know?
嗯。
Mhmm.
当然，那些创办初创公司的人，几乎不可能是纯粹的平庸之辈。
And the people who, of course, are starting the startup, like, it it's very rare that a, like, pure mediocre person starts a startup.
在我们深入讨论创办Y Combinator之前，我想先停一下，你还记得你第一次见到保罗的时候吗？
Do you so so before we kinda get into starting Y Combinator, I also just wanna take a pause and, like, do you remember the first time that you met Paul?
你还记得你当时对他的第一印象是什么吗？
And do you remember, like, what your first impressions were?
是的。
Yes.
与我的童年不同，我对第一次见到保罗的记忆非常清晰。
I mean, unlike my childhood, I have very clear memories of meeting Paul.
我们来看看。
Let's see.
我在想从哪里开始。
I'm trying to think of where to start.
所以在我30岁的时候，我有点经历了一场中年危机。
So I at age 30, I was sort of having, like, a sort of midlife crisis a little bit.
你知道，我和我的长期男友分手了，为此我非常难过。
You know, my sort of long term boyfriend and I had broken up, and I was really very sad about that.
顺便说一下，这层痛苦还叠加了一层：我当时和我爸以及继母住在一起，这本来挺好的。
And, oh, by the way, added on to this layer of misery, I was living at home with my dad and stepmother, which was wonderful.
我的意思是，他们再好不过了，但作为一个30岁的人，住在波士顿郊区和家人一起生活，其实并不那么酷。
I mean, they were could not have been nicer, but as a 30 year old, like, living in the Boston suburbs with, you know, your family is not that cool.
所以我一直拼命工作。
And so I just worked all the time.
很少出去。
Didn't go out much.
然后我说，好吧。
Then I said, okay.
得走出去了。
Gotta get out there.
我做的一件事是报名了哈佛大学扩展学院的一个课程。
And one thing I did was I took this class at Harvard's Extension School.
那是一门表演课，大卫。
It was an acting class, David.
哦，天哪。
Oh, wow.
我这辈子从来没上过表演课。
I've never taken acting in my life.
我的意思是，我上一次参与的还是六年级的学校话剧。
I mean, the last thing that I had done was, like, marrying the school play in sixth grade.
我报了这门表演课，是因为我觉得也许它能帮我提高公众演讲能力，因为我总是非常紧张。
And I took the acting class because I thought maybe it will help me with public speaking because I would get very nervous.
于是我心想，管他呢？
And so I thought, what the heck?
总归有点事做。
It'll be something to do.
于是我上了这门表演课，班上有个家伙正和另外两个人在剑桥合办一个派对，我也打算去。
So I took this acting class, and there was a guy in it who was cohosting a party with two other people in Cambridge that I was gonna go to.
这个叫马兰特的人是我表演课上的朋友。
So this guy, Marant, was my friend from the acting class.
他说，好的。
He said, okay.
派对就在这个周六。
The party's this Saturday.
希望到时候能见到你们所有人。
I hope to see you all there.
于是我去了。
So I show up.
我差点就没去，因为我觉得我的搭挡、朋友没空，他平时总会陪我去。
I almost didn't go actually because I was sort of like, oh, my wingman, my friend wasn't available who usually would come with me.
所以我要一个人去。
And so I was going by myself.
我当时想，唉，我都不想去了。
And I was like, oh, I don't even wanna go.
我觉得我爸爸说：真的吗？
And I think my dad was like, really?
你得出门走走。
You need to get out of the house.
你应该去参加这个派对。
You should go to this party.
是的。
Yeah.
于是我到了门口，说：哦，你好。
So I show up on the doorstep, and I'm like, oh, hi.
你知道吗，我是杰西卡·利文斯顿。
You know, I'm Jessica Livingston.
我来这里是找穆拉特的。
I'm here to see Murat.
接待我的那个人说，穆拉特不在这里。
And the guy who greeted me was like, Murat, he's not here.
他加入了韦斯利·克拉克的竞选团队，上周搬去了阿肯色州。
He joined the Wesley Clark campaign, and he moved to Arkansas last week.
他没告诉你吗？
Didn't he tell you?
我当时心里一下子沉到了肚子里。
And I thought like, my heart just sank to my stomach.
我想，不会吧。
And I thought, no.
他没告诉我。
He didn't.
我想，好吧。
And I thought, okay.
我要进去，如果一个人都不认识，我就从后门溜走，没人会注意到。
I'm gonna go in, and if I don't know anyone, I'm just gonna, like, go out the back door and no one will notice.
结果发现，我表演课上的一个人都没来。
As it turns out, not one person from my acting class was there.
我真是去了一个完全不认识任何人的派对，而且还是在保罗家。
I literally went to a party where I did not know one person, and it was at Paul's house.
他是联合主办人。
He was the cohost.
但我实际上没和他聊过。
And I actually didn't chat with him.
我还以为他结婚了呢。
I thought he was married, actually.
他他
He he
这很有趣。
That's funny.
他旁边站着一个女人，是他朋友，我以为他们结婚了，因为我不认识任何住在好房子里的单身人士，你知道的。
Where he I a woman, a friend of his was standing next to him, and I assumed they were married because I didn't know anyone who lived in a in a nice house, you know, who wasn't married.
你知道吗？
You know?
如果你单身，大家都住公寓。
They all lived in apartments if you're single.
不过我最后还是和保罗聊上了。
Anyway but I did wind up chatting to Paul.
你还记得你和杰西卡第一次见面的时候吗？
Do you remember when you and Jessica first met?
哦，记得。
Oh, yes.
非常清楚。
Very vividly.
我当时站在厨房里，她走回厨房，我问她要不要帮她拿外套，还是说那是她 outfit 的一部分。
I was standing in the kitchen, and she came back into the kitchen, and I asked her if I should take her coat or if it was part of her outfit.
她记得当时觉得我作为一个男人，能问出这样的问题、懂得区分这些细节，真是很有品位。
And she remembers thinking that I was sophisticated for for as a man for asking such a question, for being able to know the distinction.
那是一件长长的白色皮草大衣。
It was a long white leather coat.
你还记得你第一次见到她时的第一印象吗？
Do you remember like like your first impression when you met her?
我记得她告诉我，我的一个想法很愚蠢。
Well, I remember she told me an idea of mine was stupid.
我有个域名叫 factomatt.com，一直 vaguely 计划用它来做一个看似合理但完全是假话的百科全书，让人们搜索后误以为是真的，比如尤利西斯·格兰特有一条木腿之类的。
I have this domain factomatt.com that I was I've been sort of vaguely planning to use for a sort of encyclopedia of plausible but fake lies so that people would like search for it and then repeat the lies, know, like Ulysses s Grant had a wooden leg or something like that.
就是那种听起来差不多合理的。
Like just about plausible.
对吧？
Right?
她说她觉得这个主意很蠢。
And she said she thought it was a stupid idea.
所以我很佩服她敢于对我的想法提出反对。
So I was impressed that she stood up to me about that.
我至今还没做这件事。
I still haven't done it.
但我感觉她似乎很开心。
But I thought she seemed happy.
她经常微笑。
She smiled a lot.
然后他约我出去。
And then he asked me out.
他从第三位联合主办人那里拿到了我的邮箱，周一就约我出去。
He got my email from the third cohost and he asked me out on Monday.
我们那个周末去约会了，之后就定下来了。
And we went out on a date that weekend, and that was it.
所以听起来，你某种程度上沉浸在这种初创公司乐观主义的氛围中了。
And so it sounds like you kinda got immersed in this in this group of, you know, startup optimism.
我的意思是，那是 post.com 的时代。
I mean, that was post.com days.
那时候人们充满了极大的怀疑。
There was a huge amount of skepticism back then.
我的意思是，我记得当时的互联网泡沫余波确实很真实，但不知怎么的，你们却决定，嘿，我们真的很喜欢初创公司的理念。
I mean, I remember this .com hangover was real, but somehow you guys decided, like, no, we really, you know, love this idea of startups.
那么，你们是怎么想到要创办一个帮助初创公司的项目的呢？
And where did the idea come from to say, you know, hey, maybe we should start something to help startups?
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，这其实是我们关系故事的另一部分，因为我之前提到过，我在投资银行工作时有点厌倦了，同时在业余时间写一本叫《创始人的工作》的书。
Well, that that's another part of the story of our relationship because I think I I mentioned that I was kind of getting bored at the investment bank, and I was working on this book Founders at Work on the Side.
然后我得知波士顿一家风险投资公司正在招聘一位市场总监。
And then I became aware of a position that they were looking for at a venture capitalist firm, a VC firm in Boston, was looking for a director of marketing.
我觉得这听起来有点意思。
And I thought, well, that sounds kinda interesting.
我要去面试一下这个职位。
I'm gonna go interview for that.
但他们花了很长时间。
But they took a long time.
回头来看，可能只有两个月，但感觉还是很久。
And in hindsight, it was probably only two months, but it still felt like a long time.
就像风投公司常做的那样，他们迟迟做不了决定。
And like VCs do, they were taking forever to make up their mind.
与此同时，每天晚上我都会告诉她，你知道当你去这家公司的职位工作时应该怎么做吗？
And meanwhile, every night, I was telling her, you know what you should do when you go and work for this firm?
你应该这样改、那样改、再那样改。
You should change it in this way and this way and this way.
所以在那两个月里，保罗和我每天晚上都会出去吃饭，他会跟我说，你知道你该怎么做吗？
So over the course of those two months, Paul and I would go out to dinner every night, and he would, you know what you should do me?
你知道吗，那时他会晃着手指对你说道，你知道你该做什么吗？
You know, that's when he waggles his finger at you and says, you know what you should do?
然后他会给你一个想法。
And he gives you an idea.
他会一直跟我讲，你知道，风险投资行业已经烂透了。
And we he would just tell me all about, you know, the VC industry is broken.
他们想给一家公司投五亿一千万美元，而实际上你只需要付房租就够了。
They wanna give, you know, $510,000,000 to a company when really all you need to do is pay the rent.
你知道吗，因为这是在2004年，创办初创公司的成本正在大幅下降。
You know, it was getting much cheaper to start a startup because this is in 2004.
是的。
Mhmm.
如果你是个程序员，其实你只需要一台笔记本电脑，就能创办一家软件公司。
You really if you were a programmer, you kinda just needed a laptop to start, you know, a software company.
对。
Right.
所以成本正在降低。
So it's getting cheaper.
特别是在波士顿，除了去找风投，根本没有其他融资途径，而这些风投又确实只想投入大笔资金，你还必须准备商业计划。
In Boston, especially, there was no way to get funding except to go to VCs, which, again, really wanted to invest large sums of money, and you had to have a business plan.
但保罗坚信，存在一个巨大的、未被开发的程序员群体，只要在早期阶段有人给予帮助，他们就能创办初创公司，因为他自己当初正是通过网络起步时得到了这样的帮助。
But Paul really felt like there was this huge untapped source of programmers who could start startups if someone helped them along at the earliest stages because he had been helped that way when he was getting started with via web.
波士顿有个朋友，他是一名律师。
There was a guy in Boston who's a friend of his, and he was a lawyer by trade.
他不仅提供了他们最初的1万美元资金，还帮他们填好了所有法律文件并完成了公司注册。
So he not only provided their first $10,000 of funding, but he also filled out all the legal paperwork and incorporated them.
保罗当时就说，哇。
And, you know, Paul was like, wow.
这太棒了。
That's amazing.
而他们起步测试想法，所需要的全部就是这些。
And that's all that they needed to get started to test their idea.
就是这样。
That's the thing.
你不需要一千万美元。
You don't need $10,000,000.
你只需要，嗯，那时候只需要一小笔钱，对吧。
You need you know, back then you only needed a small amount Right.
用来生活，你知道的？
To live, you know?
然后你就能获得资金。
And then you can get funding.
我们做出了我们当初做创业项目PiaWeb时希望存在的东西。
We made the thing that we wished had existed when we were doing our startup, PiaWeb.
我们希望当时能有个地方，让我们能轻松地获得一小笔资金，以及如何创办创业公司的建议，因为我们一无所知。
We wished there had been somewhere where we could get a small amount of money without too much trouble and advice about how to start a startup because we knew nothing.
我们知道一定会有人需要这样的东西，因为我们自己就曾经需要过。
We knew that there would be a need for something like this because we had needed it.
所以我们会长时间地讨论如何改善这个生态系统，以及如何举办大量活动来把人们聚集在一起，对他们进行教育。
So we would talk for hours and hours about how this ecosystem could be improved and how you could do a lot of events to bring people together, to educate them.
因为别忘了，2004年的时候，关于初创公司的信息并不多。
Because remember, back in 2004, there wasn't that much information on startups.
那根本就不是个事儿。
It was not a thing.
所以这一切都在幕后进行。
So this was going on in the background.
风险投资家们花了一些时间才做出决定。
The VC was, you know, taking some time to decide.
有一天晚上，我们出去吃晚饭，我想我们当时正走回家。
And Paul, one night, we were out at dinner, and I think we were walking home.
他说：‘算了，不管了。’
And he was like, oh, fuck it.
我们干脆自己干吧。
Let's just start our own thing.
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我记得在剑桥的人行道上，我们正是在那个确切的位置决定要这么做，因为当时那是一笔不小的金额。
I remember the exact point on the sidewalk in Cambridge where we decided to do this because it was a large amount of money at the time.
但我说，你知道的，我记不清具体是多少了，大概十万美金左右吧。
But I said like, you know, I forget exactly what it was, but maybe a $100,000 or something like that.
那时候看起来已经很多了。
Seemed like a lot at the time.
然后我说，你知道吗？
And I said, you know what?
我来出这笔钱，你来负责干活，我们直接自己干。
I'll put up the money for this and you can work for it and we'll just start our own.
于是他想，如果我和杰西卡自己搞个投资业务，我会和初创公司一起打磨他们的想法，而杰西卡则负责其他所有事情。
And so he thought, you know, if Jessica and I start our own investment gig, you know, I'll work with the startup on their ideas and Jessica will, you know, run everything else.
这就是种子阶段的由来。
And that's kind of how the seed started.
广告后继续。
More after the break.
商业及其运作方式正在以你意想不到的更微妙也更根本的方式发生变化。
Business and the ways we do it are changing in ways that are both more subtle and more radical than you realize.
欢迎收听由Sama for Business出品的《复利》。
Welcome to compound interest from Sama for Business.
我是莉兹·霍夫曼。
I'm Liz Hoffman.
我是罗汉·戈斯瓦米。
And I'm Rohan Goswami.
我们一直关注这场变革背后的推动力，但现在我们想直接与推动这一变革的人对话。
We've been covering the forces behind this revolution, but now we wanna talk directly to the people driving that change.
每周，我们都会采访一线从业者、专家和创新者，深入超越新闻头条的真相。
Each week, we'll talk to the operators, the experts, and the innovators to go beyond the headlines.
我们将深入探讨从不再拥有酒店的酒店公司，到愿意为你寿司提供融资的企业，剖析商业与消费者如何重塑我们经济的互动方式，并展望未来趋势。
We'll dig into everything from hospitality companies that no longer own hotels to companies that will finance your sushi We'll unpack the transformation of how business and consumers engage with our economy and figure out what lies ahead.
请在您收听播客的平台收听由Seven Four Business出品的《复利》。
Listen to compound interest from Seven Four Business wherever you get your podcasts.
我们回来了。
And we're back.
你们刚开始时，YC 有很多非常独特的地方。
There's so much that was really distinctive about YC, kinda, as you guys getting started.
听你们的故事，我能感受到你们从过去经历中学到了很多，明白了自己不希望事情变成什么样，以及希望如何做得不同。
And and listening to your story, there's so much about almost what you learned from your past about what you didn't want things to be like, and how you wanted to do it differently.
我记得有一件事特别突出，简直让所有人震惊，那就是十分钟的面试。
One of the things that was so distinctive that I remember really blew people's minds was just this ten minute interview.
如果你只有十分钟的面试时间，就不可能花几个月去研究表格和演示文稿。
And if you have a ten minute interview, like, you don't have months to look at spreadsheets and decks.
我的意思是，你必须快速做出判断，关键在于对人的判断。
I mean, so much of your quick assessment that you have to make is the read on the people.
你们是怎么决定采用这么短的面试时间的？
How did you guys decide on just that super short interview?
我们做的很多事都是先尝试一下，然后不断改进。
Well, a lot of what we did was we tried something out, and we improved upon it.
保罗还有其他一些非常重要的想法。
So Paul also had a bunch of other, like, very important ideas.
除了只提供少量资金外，他还说，你们不能让融资过程拖上几周甚至几个月。
In addition to only giving small amounts of funding, he also said, you can't drag the fundraising process on for, you know, weeks and months.
我同意。
And I agreed.
你得见一面，然后当场决定是否要投资。
You know, you gotta meet with someone and decide then if you wanna invest.
因为投资者拖得越久，他们对这家初创公司掌握的信息就越多。
Because the longer an investor can drag out the process, the more information that they have on that startup.
所以他们总是有动力去拖延这个过程。
So they're always motivated to drag out that process.
所以我们决定不这么做。
So we said we're not gonna do that.
我们决定，因为我们四个人都从未做过天使投资人，所以必须做点什么来快速提升自己，学习如何做天使投资。
And what we decided was because all four of us had never been angel investors, we said, well, we gotta do something to, like, bring us up to speed and learn how to angel invest.
今年夏天，我们会同时资助几家初创公司，然后我们联系了一堆人来面试。
Let's this summer, we'll start off by we'll fund a couple at the same time, and then we called a bunch of people to come interview.
那就是关键所在。
And that was the thing.
我觉得那时候面试至少有三十分钟，大卫。
I think interviews were at least thirty minutes back then, David.
可能是四十五分钟。
Possibly forty five minutes.
我记不清了。
I can't remember.
但第一天结束后，我们就意识到，在这个阶段根本不需要四十五分钟。
But after the first day, we said, you do not need forty five minutes at this stage.
我们面试五分钟就知道对方是肯定还是否定，剩下的时间只是 painfully long。
Like, we knew five minutes into the interview, you know, whether they were a yes or a no, and so the rest was just sort of painfully long.
而且，你知道，保罗是个挺没耐心的人，所以坐在那儿四十五分钟根本没意义。
And, you know, Paul's a pretty impatient person, so it just didn't make sense to sit there for forty five minutes.
你对那些非常早期的面试有什么记忆吗？
Do you have any kind of memories from those really early interviews?
我有。
Well, I do.
我记得史蒂夫和亚历克西斯是从弗吉尼亚大学来的。
I mean, I remember with Steve and Alexis, they had come up from UVA.
保罗是在哈佛大学的‘如何创办初创公司’讲座上认识他们的。
Paul had met them at the How to Start a Start Up talk at Harvard.
他们特地坐火车来听他演讲，然后申请了Y Combinator。
They had, like, taken the train up to see him give that talk and then applied to Y Combinator.
他们当时在做这样一个想法。
And they were doing this idea.
就是通过手机点餐。
It was ordering food on your cell phone.
你猜怎么着。
Go figure.
但那时候，你知道，早了十年。
But it was, like, you know, ten years too early.
或者也许没到十年，但这个想法还是早了几年，因为那时候智能手机都还没出现。
Or maybe not ten years, but, you know, it was a few years too early for that idea, because this is before smartphones were even around.
而且他们当然没有任何餐饮公司的资源。
And they, of course, had no connections to any food companies.
他们觉得，你可以走进麦当劳，提前在手机上下单，然后直接取餐。
They were like, you can walk into McDonald's having ordered your food and just pick it up.
我们觉得，这是个好主意，但我们就是看不到它能实现。
And we thought, great idea, but we just don't see this happening.
所以我们拒绝了他们。
So we rejected them.
但我记得我非常喜欢他们。
But I remember I loved them.
我只是觉得他们真的非常真诚。
I just thought that they were just so earnest.
我的意思是，亚历克西斯显然非常有魅力，我们就是特别喜欢和他们聊天，而且对他们印象深刻。
I mean, Alexis is obviously so charismatic, and it was just we loved talking to them, you know, and and we were impressed with them.
因为他们的想法虽然早了几步，但本质上是个好点子，只是我们拒绝了他们。
Because their idea, even though it was a few years too early, it was a good idea ultimately, but we rejected them.
因为当时我们还没有意识到，投资早期初创公司时，更重要的是创始人而非创意。
Because at that point, we did not realize that when you fund an early stage startup, it's more about the founders than the idea.
我们以为关键在于创意本身。
We thought it was about the idea.
所以我清楚地记得，和他们聊天时我有多享受。
So I distinctly remember how much I just enjoyed talking to them.
她对我们拒绝他们感到很沮丧。
And she was bummed that we turned them down.
她真的很喜欢那几个小伙子。
She really liked those guys.
所以我心想，杰西卡难过了。
And so I thought, oh, Jessica's sad.
我得想想办法让杰西卡别难过。
I need to figure out how to make Jessica not sad.
也许我们还有办法最终接受他们。
Maybe there's some way we can accept them after all.
我知道。
I know.
我会给他们打电话，说如果他们愿意做另一件事，我们就投资他们。
I'll call them and say we'll fund them if they'll do this other thing.
然后下周一，保罗联系了他们，说我们真的很喜欢你们。
And then the next Monday, Paul reached out to them and was like, we really liked you guys.
你们觉得我们能不能一起头脑风暴一下新的点子？
Do you think we could maybe brainstorm a new idea?
他们真的从康涅狄格州的火车上下来，又上了另一列开往波士顿的火车，就在那时想出了Reddit的点子，后来他们加入了我们的加速器。
And they literally got off the train in Connecticut and got back on a train to Boston, and they came up with the idea for Reddit then and they were in our batch.
那种社交雷达的天赋是什么时候第一次显现出来的？
When did that social radar talent first become apparent?
我的意思是，是只有一场面试，还是说这是一个逐渐发现的过程，你突然意识到她的判断力真的很棒？
Like, was there one interview or was it just kind of a process where you're like, oh, wow, her judgment is really good?
在第一轮面试时，我们原本以为杰西卡在面试中只是个类似文员的角色。
During the first round of interviews, we went into it thinking that Jessica would just be almost like clerical worker or something like that in the interviews.
因为我和罗伯特、特雷弗才是专家，我们负责面试这些人，决定是否要投资他们。
Because me and Robert and Trevor were the experts, and we were gonna interview these guys and decide if we were gonna fund them or not.
对吧？
Right?
而杰西卡只是坐在那里，差不多就是在记录他们是谁，然后去叫下一位进来。
And Jessica was sitting there, like, almost, like, keeping track of who they were and going to get to get the next one.
对吧？
Right?
但在面试过程中，我们开始越来越重视她的意见。
And in the course of the interviews, we found we were, like, starting to, like, listen to her opinion a lot.
所以第一轮面试时，大概就是我意识到她也是那个社交雷达的时刻。
So the first set of interviews and that was I suppose when I started when I realized that she was the social radar too.
因为她会看着这些人说，这些人不错。
Because she would look at these people and say, these guys are good.
我不喜欢这些家伙，你知道的。
I don't like these ones, you know.
你知道，YC之所以成为YC，很大程度上就在于这些短短十分钟的面试，你能迅速看透一个人。
You know, so much of what makes YC YC was these, like, short ten minute interviews where you had your read on people.
还有那些活动。
It was the events.
我记得很清楚，当时对一个聪明的年轻创始人来说，那是一个多么温暖、富有关怀的环境，是的。
You know, I really remember just how warm and nurturing of an environment it was for a, know, a smart young founder that was Yeah.
有点像抽身出来，去做一些有趣的事情。
Kinda stepping away and doing something interesting.
而且，我认为你带来的很多东西，也正是这种关怀的特质。
And then also just, you know, I think a lot of what you really brought is also that nurturing element.
我的意思是，这些从一开始就计划好了吗？还是只是跟随直觉，从你过去的经历中学习，避免重蹈覆辙？
I mean, how how much of that was planned from the get go, or how much of that was just kinda follow what felt right and what you learned from your past in terms of what you didn't want things to be like?
是的。
Yeah.
这一切都是随机应变，跟着感觉走。
That was all just play it by ear and do what feels right.
我非常有爱心，而且那时候我还没自己的孩子，所以有大量精力关注他人。
I was very nurturing, and this was, you know, before I had my own children, I had so much energy to focus on others.
我真的，真的很把我们投资的这些人当成自己的孩子一样。
And I really, like, I really did treat these people we funded like my kids sometimes.
我们会带他们出去吃饭。
I mean, we would take them out to dinner.
我会跟他们聊，哦，你刚和男朋友或女朋友分手了。
You know, I would talk to them about, oh, you've just broken up with your boyfriend or girlfriend.
你知道的？
You know?
我真的很抱歉。
I'm so sorry.
发生什么事了？
What happened?
我会去关心他们，我真的非常在意。
I'd check on the like, I really genuinely cared.
我真的在意。
I really did.
我的意思是，当我们资助的人越来越多时，这件事变得越来越难了。
I mean, it got hard to do as we funded more and more people.
但在最初的几批中，只有八家初创公司。
But in the first few batches, there were eight startups.
你知道的？
You know?
那时候人没那么多。
There weren't that many people.
每个周二晚上我们一起吃晚饭时，对我来说就像邀请他们来家里一样，虽然那并不是我们真正的家，但感觉就像家一样，欢迎他们到来。
Every Tuesday night when he we'd have dinner, that felt to me like inviting them into our home, even though it wasn't actually our home, but it felt like a home, inviting them in.
我会去全食超市买齐所有食物，还有那些特别的饼干和柠檬水。
I would have gone to Whole Foods and bought all the food and the special you know, the cookies and lemonade.
你还记得我们总喝的柠檬水和所有那些东西吗？
Do you remember the lemonade we'd always have and everything?
保罗会亲自下厨做晚餐。
And Paul would physically cook the dinner.
在那之前好多年他都是主厨，直到后来事情变得太多，我们意识到他没法一边切洋葱一边指导初创公司，所以得请人来帮忙做饭了。
He was the chef for many years before that became too much, and we realized, like, he can't chop the onions and advise startups at the same time, so we gotta cook in.
但那真的就像一场晚餐派对，我们真的很在意。
But, like, it really was like a dinner party, and we did care.
我们做这些从来不是为了钱。
And we weren't we were not ever doing it specifically for the money.
我们只是想看看这是否行得通。
It was more doing it to see if it worked.
你明白我的意思吗？
Do you know what I mean?
显然，我们想赚钱，因为如果不赚钱就无法持续下去，但这并不是推动我们的动力。
Obviously, we wanted to make money because we couldn't keep going if we didn't make money, but that's not what drove us.
这么说听起来可能很俗气，但这是真的。
It sounds so cheesy to say that, but it is true.
这只不过是我们本来就会做的事情。
It was just the natural sort of thing we would have done.
这看起来不自然吗？
Did it seem unnatural?
当然不自然。
Of course not.
那只是因为，如果我们投资别人，我们根本不知道投资者是怎么运作的。
That was just like, if we funded people, we didn't know how investors worked.
我们从来没接触过任何投资者。
We'd never like been around any investors.
我们当时在波士顿。
We were in Boston.
所以我们只是做了对我们来说很自然的事，而事实上，这与以往的做法大不相同，但我们甚至没意识到有多不同。
And so we just did what seemed natural to us, and it was in fact very different from the way things had been done previously, but we didn't even know how different.
对我们来说，以我们的方式行事再自然不过了。
It just seemed natural to us to act the way we did.
我们并不是故意对你表现得友好，为了操控你们。
Like, we weren't, like, acting nice to you guys to you know, in order to manipulate you.
对吧？
Right?
我们只是单纯地友好。
We were just being nice.
这是一个至关重要的因素，而且她策划活动的经验对YCYC的成功起到了关键作用，这一点真的很有趣。
It's such a critical component, and it's just so interesting how, you know, her experience with planning events is a critical part of what made YCYC.
是的。
Yeah.
如果你想想YC是什么样子，不就是一堆活动组成的吗？
And if you think of what YC is like, it's just all a bunch of events, isn't it?
对吧？
Right?
你们在YC里做什么？
What do you do in YC?
你们得决定投资谁，然后在孵化期内，整个过程就是一堆活动。
You have to decide who to fund and then during the batch, the batch is just a bunch of events.
有晚餐会，有展示日，那也是一个活动，创业学校也是一个活动。
There's the dinners, there's demo day which is just an event, start up school is an event.
YC本质上就是由各种活动组成的，我当时并没有意识到，但作为一名专业的活动策划者，她恰好具备完美的专业能力。
YC like consists of events and so it just turned out, I didn't really realize it at the time, but as essentially a professional event organizer, she had the perfect expertise.
而且，凭借她的社交敏锐度，她也是完成第一部分工作的理想人选，也就是决定选择谁。
Plus, being the social radar, she was the perfect person to do the first part too, which is deciding who to pick.
所以这完全是运气。
So it was luck.
这完全是运气。
It was luck.
她恰好成了最适合这份工作的人。
She just turned out to be the perfect person for this.
你觉得人们有时忽略了杰西卡对YC的哪些贡献？
What do you think people sometimes miss about what Jessica's contributed to YC?
天啊。
Oh my god.
他们忽略了全部。
They miss everything.
当你去YC时，它感觉像一个大家庭，这与任何风投公司所能营造的氛围都截然不同。
YC feels like a family when you go there, which is very different from anything that could be produced by VCs.
对吧？
Right?
而且还不让人觉得特别黏人。
Without being super creepy.
它就像一个家庭，聚餐是项目的一部分，而她就是妈妈。
And it's like a family, the dinner is in the batch, and she's the mom.
还有什么比这更重要的呢？
So what could be more important than that?
是她让这个地方有了家的感觉。
She's the one who makes it feel like a family.
即使到现在，人们还在模仿YC，却根本没理解这一点。
And even now even now, people copy YC and they don't get that.
对吧？
Right?
现在有这么多模仿YC的项目。
Like so there's so many copies of YC now.
但他们为什么复制不了那种魔力呢？
But why can't they reproduce the magic?
因为他们没有杰西卡，或者只是雇了个人来扮演杰西卡。
Because they don't have Jessica, or they have someone they hired to be a Jessica.
对吧？
Right?
但那完全不一样。
But it's not the same.
我的意思是，描绘一下你认为没有杰西卡的YCombinator会是什么样子？
I mean, paint a picture of what do you think YC would have been without Jessica?
它根本不会存在。
It wouldn't have existed.
它根本不会存在。
It wouldn't have existed.
如果没有她，我根本不会想到要创办它。
I would never have thought of starting it without her.
我的意思是，有人几乎带着侮辱的语气说，保罗·格雷厄姆创办Y Combinator只是为了给他的女朋友一份工作。
I mean, someone said almost insultingly like Paul Graham started Y Combinator to give his girlfriend a job.
从某种意义上说，这确实是事实，因为她当时正在申请一份工作，而那家公司会像她现在的雇主一样浪费她、忽视她。
In a sense, was true because she was applying for a job at this place that was gonna waste her and ignore her just like her current employer did.
我觉得她太优秀了。
And I thought, she's so good.
我们应该自己创办一个，让她去那里工作。
We should start our own and she can work for that one instead.
但如果不是因为这样，我根本不会启动这个项目，因为那时候我们常叫她‘杰西卡·公司注册人’。
But I never would I wouldn't have started it otherwise because, know, we used to call her Jessica the Incorporator.
她当年帮很多公司办理了注册，比如Dropbox。
Like, she she got Dropbox Incorporated, all these companies back in the day.
她简直就是事实上的法律顾问。
She was this de facto paralegal.
她对这类事情非常有条理，这很好，因为我和罗伯特、特雷弗都没这个能力。
She's very organized about shit like that, which is good because neither me nor Robert nor Trevor are someone had to be.
她是那个有条理的人。
She was the organized one.
是她帮我们开设了银行账户，负责所有事务。
She was the one who, like, got our bank accounts and was in charge of everything.
我的意思是，显然这很成功。
I mean, so it obviously worked.
你知道吗，YCombinator投资了那个时代一些最大的公司。
You know, YC's funded some of the biggest companies, you know, of the time.
我的意思是，随便举几个例子，有Airbnb、DoorDash、Stripe、Coinbase、Instacart、Dropbox，我们还谈到了Reddit。
I mean, just to name a few, you have Airbnb, you have DoorDash, you have Stripe, you have Coinbase, Instacart, Dropbox, we talked about Reddit.
我的意思是，这些只是冰山一角，名单简直没完没了。
I mean, these are just the list goes on and on, literally.
你知道吗，你有没有花点时间想过，到现在已经投资了5000家公司，这些公司的总估值接近一万亿美元。
You know, I don't know how often you just take a moment, but I think it's 5,000 companies, and the companies are worth almost a trillion dollars total between all the companies.
我的意思是，你有没有好好反思过这一点？
I mean, did you I mean, just reflect on that.
当你当年在剑桥刚开始做这件事的时候，有没有想过事情会发展到这一步？
Like, did you ever think that that's where things would end up when you started this way back in Cambridge?
我绝对没想到过。
I definitely didn't.
我的意思是，我们当时要求很低。
I mean, we we were just we had, like, low standards.
如果我们当初的某个创业公司被谷歌收购了，我们就会非常兴奋，你知道的，那时我们已经很高兴了。
We would have been excited if, like, when Google bought one of our startups, you know, we were delighted.
我们真的特别激动。
We were so psyched.
你知道，我们的期望值非常低。
You know, we had very low expectations.
我记得刚开始的时候，保罗在一篇文章里写过，别只想着去微软工作。
And, like, I remember thinking when we started, you know, one of the things Paul wrote in an essay was, you know, don't just join Microsoft.
要创办一家初创公司，然后让微软收购你。
Start a startup and get Microsoft to buy you.
这可以成为年轻人的一种新出路。
Like, that could be a new way to do things for young people.
你知道吗？
You know?
创办一家初创公司不应该这么奇怪。
Like, starting a startup shouldn't be so weird.
我记得当时想，天哪。
And I remember thinking like, oh gosh.
如果微软真的收购了我们的某家初创公司，那一定会非常令人兴奋，但你能想象如果我们的公司上市了吗？
That would be really exciting if, you know, Microsoft actually bought one of our startups, but could you imagine if one of our companies went public?
那才是终极目标。
That's the holy grail.
当时觉得，这种事根本不可能发生，简直疯狂。
Like, so it seemed it just seemed crazy at the time to think that that could ever happen.
如果你当时敢想象它会发展成今天这样，那你一定是个疯狂又极度自负的人。
You would have had to be some sort of insane, insanely arrogant person to imagine then that it would become what it has been.
我们运气很好。
We were we we had a lot of luck.
我们正好在最恰当的时机做了该做的事。
We were doing what we were doing at exactly the right moment to be doing it.
对吧？
Right?
投资年轻创始人而不是MBA，这正是变革发生的关键时刻。
Betting on young founders instead of MBAs, you know, this was exactly the turning point when it was happening.
杰西卡恰好是做这件事的完美人选，这真是运气绝佳。
It was amazing luck that Jessica was the perfect person to do this.
我当时并不知道她有多完美。
I didn't know how perfect she was.
我只知道她看起来非常勤奋，你知道的。
All I knew was she seemed to be really hardworking, you know.
但后来发现，她还具备其他所有完美的技能。
But it turned out she had all these other skills that were perfect too.
但我可以告诉你这个秘诀。
But I can tell you the secret.
和你的女友、配偶或伴侣一起创业的秘密是什么。
Here's the secret to doing a startup with your girlfriend or spouse or partner.
如果你们拥有互补的专业技能，那就非常好。
It's really good if you have complementary expertise.
所以杰西卡和我，杰西卡特别擅长识人。
So Jessica and I like Jessica is a really good judge of character.
我特别不擅长识人。
I'm a terrible judge of character.
每个人都骗得了我。
Everybody tricks me.
我在编程、数学这类事情上还算不错。
I'm fairly good at like programming and math and stuff like that.
而杰西卡在编程和数学方面并不擅长。
And Jessica is not so not so good at programming and math.
对吧？
Right?
杰西卡特别擅长组织活动，而我对组织活动一无所知。
And Jessica is really good at organizing events, and I don't know don't know anything about organizing events.
所以我们俩做的事情完全不重叠。
And so the things we would do didn't overlap.
我们总是完全依赖对方。
We would completely defer to the other one.
在我们整个关系史中，我们从未就Y Combinator发生过任何争执吗？
Do you know in the entire history of our relationship, we never once had an argument about Y Combinator?
一次都没有。
Never once.
我们确实为其他情侣常争执的事情吵过，比如岳父母之类，但关于Y Combinator，一次都没吵过。
We had arguments about the things other couples have arguments about, like in laws and stuff like that, but never once about Y Combinator.
哇。
Wow.
这真的令人难以置信。
That's actually incredible.
我觉得，如果一对情侣还一起经营生意，应该会更多摩擦才对。
Like I I would I would have imagined being a couple and then working together in a business that somehow there'd be more friction there.
如果你们的能力有重叠，那确实会这样。
There would be if your if your abilities overlapped.
但我们的能力并不重叠。
But ours don't.
我们完全互补，这又是另一件极其幸运的事。
We're completely complementary, and that was another totally lucky thing.
我们两个人就像拼图一样完美契合，最终形成的整体正是经营类似机构的完美组合。
The two of us fit together like this sort of jigsaw puzzle or something, and the resulting shape was the perfect thing to run something like that.
多年来，你如何看待杰西卡作为一个人和一位创始人的成长？
How have you seen Jessica grow, you know, from those early days, as a person and as a founder throughout the years?
我觉得她非常出色，简直值得专门创办一家公司来聘用她。
Like, I thought she was great, and like worth starting a whole thing just to employ.
但她总觉得必须去为任何愿意收留她的人工作。
But she, you know, she like felt like she had to go and work for whoever would have her, you know.
我对她当时工作的投资银行竟然不赏识她感到愤愤不平，甚至比她自己还要生气。
Like I was indignant that this investment bank she worked for didn't seem to appreciate her, more indignant than she was,
我想是这样。
I think.
但经过二十年，她逐渐变得更加自信了。
But gradually, she's gotten more confident after twenty years.
不过，我还是会说，她的最大秘密是，她在创业圈里是个大人物。
Still still, I would say her big secret is she like you know, she's a big deal in the startup world.
而且私下里，她仍然担心自己是个无名之辈，大家都忽视她，这至少让她保持了友善和谦逊，不像风险投资界大多数大人物那样。
And like secretly, she still worries that she's a nobody and that everybody overlooks her, which at least makes her nice and modest unlike most big deals in the venture business.
但这其实并不准确，对吧？
But it's not really accurate, is it?
有没有那么一刻，你突然意识到自己所做的一切所带来的全部影响？
Was there ever a moment where it like all kinda hit you, like looking at all the impacts of everything that you've done?
嗯，我的意思是，这一切是逐渐发生的。
Well, I mean, it it did happen sort of gradually.
所以，我现在才有所体会。
So, I mean, it hits me now.
我会想到这些。
I think of that.
我简直想哭了。
I practically wanna cry.
当然，让我感触最深的是我们影响了多少人的生活。
And, of course, what impacts me is how many lives we've affected.
不仅仅是他们的职业生活，还有他们的个人生活、最好的朋友、参加他们婚礼的人，以及那些原本互不相识、却在Y Combinator社区中互相帮助度过健康危机的人——所有这些美好的事情，都是因为我们投资的这些人带来的，而他们中并非所有人都成功了。
And not just people's professional lives, but their personal lives and their best friends and people who were in their weddings and people who didn't know each other and helped people with, like, health crises in the Y Combinator community and all the good things that happen as a result of these people that we funded, not all of whom are successful.
你知道的。
You know?
很多初创公司都倒闭了，但那些创业者校友们仍然是这个社区的一部分。
A lot of these startups died, but those individuals, the alumni, are still part of the community.
这有时让我感到无比震撼。
And that's what I sometimes am just staggered by.
这让我感到非常自豪和开心。
It makes me really proud and happy.
非常感谢你今天参加这个节目。
Well, thank you so much for doing the show today.
你对这么多人的生活产生了深远的影响。
You've had such an impact on so many people's lives.
我想最后说一声，感谢你们在2007年给了来自宾夕法尼亚州立大学的三个大学生一个机会，因为如果没有你们、没有保罗、没有YCombinator，Weebly不可能发展成今天的样子。
And I did wanna end just by saying thank you for taking a chance on three college kids from Penn State all the way back in 2007, because Weebly would not have been what it turned out to be without you, without Paul, and without YC.
它确实对我的人生产生了巨大的影响。
And it certainly had a big impact on my life.
感谢你创办了YC，感谢你为此付出的所有努力，看看它今天变成了什么样子。
So you for starting YC and all the work that you put into it, and and look what it turned out to be today.
哎呀。
Aw.
谢谢你，大卫。
Thank you, David.
我很高兴当年投资了你们，也特别高兴看到你们如今的成长和成就。
I'm so glad we funded you all those years ago, and I'm just so glad to see how you've grown up and where you are now.
我就像一位骄傲的母亲。
I'm I'm like a proud mom.
本播客由Leap Forward Ventures赞助，该公司投资早期初创企业。
This podcast is brought to you by Leap Forward Ventures, investor in early stage startups.
如果你喜欢这个节目，最重要的是注册以获取新集发布的通知，包括每期故事的文本稿和关键要点。
If you like the show, the number one thing you'll want to do is sign up to get notified when we release new episodes that includes transcripts and key takeaways from each story.
请前往leapforward.fm注册。
Head to leapforward.fm to sign up.
我也很希望听到你对本集的反馈，以及你希望下一期邀请谁做嘉宾。
I'd also love to hear your feedback on the episode and who you want to hear from next.
请发送短信至(415) 915-3050与我们联系。
Just shoot us a text at (415) 915-3050 to get in touch.
本集由Theo Balcom和Kim Nederfain Peterse制作。
This episode was produced by Theo Balcom and Kim Nederfain Peterse.
Craig Eli是我们的工程师。
Craig Eli is our engineer.
Reese Ladano设计了我们的封面图。
Reese Ladano made our cover art.
音乐由Wonderly乐队的吉姆·布鲁伯格和本·兰斯弗克创作。
Music is by Jim Brumberg and Ben Lansverk of Wonderly.
我是大卫·鲁塞科，欢迎收听《飞跃前行》播客。
I'm David Rusenko, and this is the Leap Forward podcast.
下期节目见。
See you next episode.
她有很多绰号。
She has a bunch of nicknames.
比如，探员利文斯顿。
Detective Livingston, for example.
和她住在一起让人很不安，因为任何偏离常规、奇怪或与众不同的事情，她都会注意到，并深究那些最奇怪的细节。
It's disconcerting to live with her because anything that's off or strange or different than you'd expect, she notices and digs in like the strangest things.
你随便在浴室里留下一件杂物，她就会问：这是什么？
You leave some random piece of junk in the bathroom and she's like, what's this?
这东西怎么在这儿？
Why is this here?
所以你可以想象，这对评估初创公司有多有用。
And so you could imagine how useful that would be in judging startups.
对吧？
Right?
因为他们来参加面试时。
Because they're coming to do interviews.
很多人试图在面试中撒谎，但却骗不过侦探利文斯顿。
A lot of them basically try to lie their way through the interview while they're not lying their way past detective Livingston.
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