儿童心理学家应对难缠成年人的指南 | 贝基·肯尼迪博士

是的

Yeah.

这让我想到你讲的另一个概念，就是最善意的解读（MGI）。

This This connects to something else that you teach, is the the MGI, the most generous interpretation.

谈谈这个概念，以及它如何与工作相关。

Talk about that and how that might relate to work.

是的

Yeah.

我意识到我对那些没有实际行动支撑的想法有抵触情绪。

I've realized I have an allergy to ideas that don't have action.

我其实是在工作中，以及在心理学领域中意识到这一点的。

I I've realized this actually at work with and just with psychology too.

所以，这个‘人本质上是好的’的观点，你如何将行为与身份区分开来，作为进入对话的框架？

So this whole idea people are good inside, how can you separate behavior from identity as a framework to then go into a conversation?

所有这些对我来说都显得太理论化了。

All of it just feels too theoretical for me.

所以我喜欢思考：我能用什么工具来落实这个想法？

And so I like to think, what is one tool I can use to action on that idea?

这个想法最初源于育儿经历。

And it started, I think, through parenting.

我每天和孩子度过一整天后。

I finished day with my kids.

当孩子们还小的时候，我准备上床睡觉。

I was going to bed when my kids were younger.

我当时想：哇。

I was like, wow.

这一天简直是一团糟。

That day was just disaster.

然后我会听到自己用某种方式谈论孩子——我始终爱着我的孩子，但直到后来我才意识到，就连语言本身都让我渐渐不再喜欢自己的孩子。

And and then I would hear myself start talking about my kid in a way where I always loved my kid, but but I didn't realize till later, even through the language, I stopped liking my kid.

我刚听了你关于彼得·邓的那期节目，那期讲了很多关于语言的内容，对吧？语言如何影响思维。

I was just listening to your Peter Dang episode, which was a lot about language, right, and how language then impacts thoughts.

作为父母，我认为很多时候是这样，但作为领导者也是如此——你晚上对自己讲的故事，会决定你第二天早晨成为怎样的父母。

And I think a lot as a parent, but it's true as a leader, the story you tell yourself as a kid at night kind of becomes the parent you are the next morning.

大概也是如此。

Probably same true.

你晚上对自己组织所讲的故事，会决定你第二天早晨成为怎样的领导者。

The story you tell yourself by your organization at night becomes the leader you are the next morning.

我意识到，我一直在使用我后来称之为‘最不友善的解读’的方式。

And I realized I was using what I what I later called this least generous interpretation.

我只是觉得，我们所有人其实都会自然而然地这么做。

I was just I think we all do that, naturally.

至少我是这样的。

At least I do.

比如，当我试图管教孩子时，他不听话还笑，我第一个念头竟是：我觉得我孩子是个反社会者。

Like, I see my kid not listening and laughing if I'm trying to discipline, and my first thought is, like, I think my I think my kid's a sociopath.

我不知道自己怎么会想到这种地步。

Like, I don't know how I get there.

我孩子两岁，但事情发生得真快。

My kid's two years old, but it happens so fast.

明白吗？

Okay?

我意识到，晚上要想改变这种心态，让自己进入良好的内在状态，唯一的方法就是对自己说：为什么我会对孩子说‘别在沙发上跳，太危险了’或‘别靠近玻璃桌’，而他却盯着我，反而跳得更起劲？

And I realized at night the only way to shift this and get into a good inside mindset was just to say to myself, what's the most generous interpretation of why I would say to my kid some version of stop jumping on the couch is dangerous or near the glass table, and he'd look at me and jump doubly hard on the couch.

我最不友善的解读就是，他是个反社会者。

My least generous interpretation was that as a sociopath.

这个我已经说过了。

I already covered that one.

我最友善的解读并没有唯一正确的答案。

My most generous interpretation, there's not one right answer.

可能这是一个特别渴望掌控感的孩子。

It might be this is a kid who's really oriented around kind of wanting to feel in control.

当这种掌控感受到威胁时，他就更加固执了。

And when that feels threatened, he doubles down.

我这个第三个孩子，完全不在乎取悦别人。

He is 0% people pleasing, this third child of mine.

我其他孩子，嗯，也是零。

My other you know, zero.

所以，‘我对你们失望’这种话，根本不可能对这样的孩子有用。

So the whole I'm disappointed with you is just she's not gonna work with a kid like that.

当我开始使用最慷慨的解读时，有几件事发生了。

And when I started using an MGI, a couple things happened.

我意识到，我喜欢上我的孩子了，但我觉得作为父母，我们很少谈论这一点，而这恰恰是让我们夜不能寐的原因。

This is kinda I realized, like, I liked my kid again, and I think we don't talk about that enough as parents, that that's the thing that keeps us up at night.

不是他们的行为。

It's not their behavior.

而是我们如何根据对他们的描述，慢慢不再喜欢他们。

It's how we we slowly stop liking them based on how we're describing them.

然后我意识到，我们是一条战线的，于是我提出了完全不同的应对方式，因为我采用了最慷慨的解读。

And then I realized we're on the same team, and then I came up with a whole different range of interventions because I used a most generous interpretation.

对吧？

Right?

我觉得工作上也是同样的道理。

I think the same thing is true at work.

对吧？

Right?

有个人在会议上反复强调自己的观点，而别人都已经不再继续了。

Someone, I don't know, is belaboring their point in a meeting when everyone else has gone on.

也许最不友好的解读，也就是我对你最初问题的反应是：哦，他们像个孩子一样，或者只是自恋。

And maybe the least generous interpretation, maybe is what I was reacting to in your initial question is, oh, they're being a baby or everyone just is, like, vain.

我最善意的解读可能是多种原因造成的。

My most generous interpretation, I don't know, could be a variety of things.

他们第一次没有被听到吗？

Did they not feel heard the first time?

但这并不能让他们的喋喋不休变得可以接受，你知道的。

Still doesn't make them going on forever, you know, acceptable.

但如果真是这样，我可能会私下对他们说：嘿。

But if that's true, I might say to them in private, hey.

在会议中，有时会发生一种情况：如果你总觉得自己没被听见，就会一直说下去。

Something happens in meetings where I wonder if you don't always feel heard, and then you keep talking.

然后，老实说，房间里其他人会感到厌烦，从而更不愿意听你讲，而这又可能让你更执着地重复你的观点。

And then, honestly, the rest of the room gets annoyed, which makes us tune you out more, which probably makes you belabor your point more.

我们陷入了一个恶性循环。

We're in a bad cycle.

我们能一起努力改变这种情况吗？

Can we work together on changing this?

现在，不再是一群人抱怨那个人或某种情况却毫无改变——这只会严重损害文化和生产力，而是通过MGI的视角进行一次对话，事情就开始以更高效的方式向前推进。

And now all of a sudden, instead of everyone complaining about that person or whatever it is and nothing changing, which is just horrible for culture and productivity, we have one conversation through an MGI lens and things start, you know, moving forward in a more productive way.

有趣的是，这其中很大一部分其实源于我们默认对方是聪明的，努力做好本职工作，内心是善良的，然后由此推断：好吧。

It's interesting how much of this comes back to just kind of assuming they are smart and are trying to do their best job and are good inside and, and just and this and translating to, okay.

尽管如此，这里仍然存在一些问题。

Here's, like in spite of that, here's something that is still going wrong.

让我们试着弄清楚。

Let's try to figure out.

有一种观点是，用好奇心代替评判，去发现缺失了什么。

There's kind of this idea of curiosity over judgment, trying to figure out what's missing.

没错，这正是关键。

And that I mean, that's exactly it.

这两件事在我看来其实是相互矛盾的。

Those are two things also that I think are in opposition.

对吧？

Right?

当你充满好奇心时，本质上不可能带有评判态度。

You you you inherently cannot be judgmental when you're curious.

当你对某事做出评判时，本质上也就失去了好奇心。

And when you're judgmental about something, you're inherently not curious about it.

我认为这假设了你了解，我说的是假设对方有良好洞察力，或者假设是MGI。

And I think it's assuming you know, I I say assume good insight or assume, you know, MGI.

其他人说，要假设对方的善意。

Other people say assume positive intent.

无论哪种表达方式能触动你的心，我认为那就是适合每个人的，因为每个人都不一样。

Whatever language hits your heart, I think is the language that's everyone's different.

MGI对我来说很合理，但如果有人有别的说法，他们就应该用那个说法。

MGI makes sense for me, but if there's someone else that has a different phrase, someone should use that one.

然后我认为，我们还应该假设这个人愿意和我一起解决这个问题。

And then I think also assuming we this person would want to work through this with me.

而且我认为，伦尼，这也是我们在孩子身上经常忽略的一点。

And and I think, Lenny, that's one of the things that we also miss a ton in our kids.

那些打人的孩子，不管他们怎么说，他们其实并不喜欢失去控制的感觉。

The kids who hit, no matter what they say, they really don't like feeling out of control.

当面撒谎的孩子，并不想当着你的面撒谎。

The kid who's lying to your face, they don't want to lie to your face.

他们也不想表现得这样。

Like, they don't want to behave this way either.

再次强调，这并不意味着行为是可以接受的，但它让我们稍微软化一点，意识到我们是在同一阵线。

Again, which doesn't make the behavior okay, but it makes us soften a tiny bit and realize we're on the same team.

而且我认为，实际上我们都想要同样的结果。

And I think, actually, we all want the same outcome.

等等。

Wait.

再多说一点，因为这并不明显——当我的孩子把东西扔到房间那头，或者就是抗拒上车时，他其实并不想这样。

Say more about that because that doesn't feel as apparent that my kid doesn't want to you know, when he's, like, throwing a thing across the way or just, like, resisting going in the car.

我想听听更多关于这里到底发生了什么。

I wanna hear more about what what's going on there.

是的。

Yeah.

我的意思是，首先，我会从基本前提说起。

I mean, first of all, I'll I'll start with the baseline.

对吧？

Right?

作为一名临床心理学家，我最初接受的是以奖励、惩罚、暂停和贴纸图表为核心的训练方式。

That as a clinical psychologist, I was initially trained in this very reward, punishment, time out, sticker chart mode.

说实话，我很喜欢这种方式，因为我的左脑非常发达，而我们的左脑喜欢逻辑，热爱线性思维。

And and to be honest, I I loved it because I have a very healthy left brain, and our left brains love logic, and we love linearity.

但一旦你成为父母，就会发现生活中根本不存在什么线性或逻辑可言。

And as soon as you're a parent, you're like, there's no linearity or logic, really.

但我们的大脑却希望这一切能成为一个系统。

But our brain wants that to be a system.

这本质上是一个‘惩罚不良行为以减少它，奖励良好行为以增加它’的系统。

And it's kind of a system of punish the bad, and you have less of the bad, and reward the good.

但很少有人会问：我们究竟该如何培养一个完整的人？

And and no one really says, well, how are we raising a human?

这些都只是表面的行为。

Those are just behaviors.

但我们的大脑却对此情有独钟。

But our brain loves it.

这就是我开始教给父母们的内容。

And that's what I started teaching to parents.

我在私人诊所里这么做，因为感觉……你知道的，感觉很清晰。

I did in my private practice because it felt, you know, it felt clean.

但这与我所知道的、帮助我诊所里所有成年人改变生活的所有方法完全相悖。

But it was at complete odds with everything I knew was helping all the adults in my practice change their lives.

而这正是让我获得开启良好洞见的契机。

And that's actually what gave me insight into starting good insights.

根本不可能存在这样的情况：帮助一个35岁的人重塑大脑、积极改变的方法，却与一个两岁或五岁孩子成长为坚韧自信者所需的方法形成理论上的对立。

Like, there's no way that what helps a 35 year old rewire their brain and change for the better is that theoretical opposition with what a two year old and five year old needs to become resilient and confident.

这完全说不通。

That just doesn't make sense.

我认为我们对孩子的认知存在一些固有观念。

And I think we have these ideas about kids.

甚至像我经常听到的说法——你是在给孩子做错误的选择。

Even, you know, something I hear a lot, you're making a bad choice to kids.

你把这变成‘你是个好人’。

You make that a you're a good person.

你做出了一个错误的选择。

You're making a bad choice.

这并不是关于原谅不良行为。

This is not about forgiving bad behavior.

我对这一点非常坚定。

I'm pretty firm about that.

但我根本不相信一个四岁的孩子在扔东西时会想：等等。

But I just don't believe a four year old who's throwing it's like, hold on.

我该不该朝我妹妹扔东西呢？

Should I throw this at my sister?

我该扔，还是不该扔？

Should I or should I not?

我会选择不扔，我的意思是，想想我们自己。

I will choose as not I mean, think about us.

当我们情绪失控时，我认为大多数人并不处于能做决定的状态。

When we act out, I don't think most of us are in a decision making place.

我们会不断升级。

We escalate.

除了‘人本质上是善良的’这一重要洞察外，另一个帮助我形成其他所有方法的见解是：孩子天生具备所有情绪，却缺乏管理情绪的技能。

And here's one of the big insights besides people are good inside that helped me form all of my other approaches, is kids are born with all the feelings and none of the skills to manage feelings.

任何年龄的不良行为，本质上都可以归结为情绪压倒了技能。

Bad behavior at any age can basically be reduced to feelings that overpower skills.

是的，行为是个问题，但行为并不是核心问题。

And yes, behavior is a problem, but behavior isn't the core problem.

它只是问题的一种表现。

It's a manifestation of the problem.

真正的问题是，某人缺乏应对内心状况所需的技能。

The actual problem is someone doesn't have the skill they need to manage something happening internally.

如果他们拥有并能运用这种技能，行为就会改变。

And if they had that skill and could access it, the behavior would change.

但那更像是结果，而不是实际干预的切入点。

But that would be kind of the outcome, not the place of actual intervention.

所以当孩子打人时，他们也会说一些类似‘你说了我也不在乎’的话。

And so when a kid hits, they look also and kids will say things like, I don't care what you say.

他们已经失控了。

They're out of control.

也许他们处于一种疲惫的状态，同时又因为兄弟姐妹有玩具而自己没有，却缺乏管理愤怒的技能。

Maybe they're in a situation where, I don't know, they could be tired, but also they're angry that a sibling has a toy and they don't have skills to manage anger.

他们嫉妒别人在玩某个东西，却无法应对这种嫉妒情绪。

They're jealous that someone is playing with something and they can't manage the jealousy.

当你从‘情绪压倒技能’的角度看待不良行为时，你就会开始像教练一样思考。

And when you look at bad behavior through the lens of feelings that overpower skills, you start to think like a coach.

我一直觉得，对于孩子来说，我们不会通过惩罚让他们学会游泳，这听起来可能很可笑。

Like, it always has struck me with kids that we don't punish them into learning how to swim, which which I know sounds funny.

但如果你付了游泳课的费用，而教练却说：‘你知道吗？'

But if you paid for swim lessons and the person said, you know what?

我不会再容忍这种行为了。

I'm just not gonna put up with this.

这完全是不恰当的行为。

It's just inappropriate behavior.

顺便说一句，如果你的孩子想要在社会中正常生活，他们必须学会游泳。

By the way, your kid has to learn to swim if they're gonna function in life.

所以就把他们关进房间，告诉他们学会游泳了再出来。

So send them to their room and tell them to come back when they learn how to swim.

这太荒谬了。

It's it's absurd.

这明显很可笑。

It's it's obviously laughable.

我觉得游泳很重要，但比这更重要的生活技能是学会管理自己的情绪。

I think swimming is very important, but an even more important life skill is learning how to manage your emotions.

确实如此。

It is.

没有人是通过被关进房间来学习新技能的。

And nobody learns new skills by being sent to their room.

没有人是通过增加羞耻感来学习新技能的。

Nobody learns new skills by adding shame.

这只会加剧情绪与技能之间的差距。

All that does is increase the gap between feelings and skills.

这完全是适得其反的。

It's just totally counterproductive.

答案是我们必须设立界限。

The answer is we have to set boundaries.

我们必须成为为失控行为设定界限的人。

We have to be the people setting boundaries around out of control behavior.

但与此同时，我们还必须真正教会孩子他们所欠缺的技能，这样才能提升他们的能力，这不仅能在短期内改变行为，更能从根本上实现长期的行为转变。

But then we actually have to teach our kids the skills they were missing, which levels up the skills, and that's how not only you change behavior short term, but you actually change behavior massively long term.

我目前正在开始对我们的孩子进行如厕训练，我正在上一门在线课程，他们称之为如厕学习，而不是如厕训练，正是出于这个原因。

I'm actually in the middle of starting potty training with our kid, and the I'm taking this little online course, and they call it potty learning, not potty training for exactly that reason.

你不是在训练他们做某件事。

You're not training them to do a thing.

而是他们不知道怎么做。

You're just they don't know how to do it.

所以你只需要教他们。

So you just teach them.

就像你在教他们字母表一样。

Like, you're teaching them the alphabet.

教给他们每一个小步骤和他们需要学习的内容。

Just teach them all little steps and what they need to learn.

你没有参加我们的如厕学习课程，伦尼。

You're not doing our potty learning course, Lenny.

我待会儿再跟你谈。

I'm gonna talk to you after.

哦，我不知道你们还有这个课程。

Oh, I didn't know you had one.

好的。

Okay.

我们的营销信息没有传出去。

Our marketing message isn't getting out

那里。

there.

立即切换。

Switching immediately.

那么，人们是怎么找到它的呢？

Well, how do people find it?

Getinside.com。

Getinside.com.

事实上，我非常强烈主张免费提供这些内容，因为我认为如厕训练是关于身体自主权和技能的早期重要课程之一。

It's actually it's actually one of the things I feel very strongly about putting out for free because I think pot potty stuff is, like, one of the early lessons around body autonomy and skills.

而我们作为父母最容易搞砸这一点的方式，就是试图完全接管这个过程。

And the quickest way we kinda mess it up as parents is kind of trying to take over the process.

这可能会非常有压力。

And it can be so stressful.

我实际上告诉了我的团队，我那些老同事，我觉得应该有一个服务。

And I actually told my team, my old guys, I just think there should be a service.

比如，如果你搜索 good inside potty，就可以免费获得。

Like, so if you Google good inside potty, like, you can have it for $0.

哦，它其实已经免费了？

Oh, it's actually free already?

是的。

Yes.

它是免费的。

It's free.

我马上切换。

I'm switching immediately.

是的。

Yes.

在成人工作环境中，有没有与如厕学习相关的核心对应关系？

Is is there a core corollary to, adult work environments in potty learning?

是的。

Yeah.

确实有。

There is.

总是如此，好吧。

There always Well okay.

让我们想想，对于孩子来说，如厕训练到底意味着什么。

So let's think about what the potty stuff is about for kids.

当我们的孩子还小的时候，他们一生中能掌控的只有两件事。

When our kids are younger, they control two things in their entire life.

进入身体的东西和从身体排出的东西。

What goes into their body and what comes out of their body.

就这些。

That's all.

现在，显然，希望我们能在某些时候让他们自己选衣服，但只是在主题上。

Now, obviously, hopefully, we let them pick their clothes here and there, but like thematically.

顺便说一句，他们也不应该负责太多其他类别，因为他们才两岁。

By the way, and they shouldn't be in charge of a ton more categories because they're two.

对吧？

Right?

但这就是为什么这两个领域会成为家庭中如此紧张的焦点。

But it's why those two areas can become so heated for families.

因为我们压力很大，当孩子——尤其是那些不是讨好型性格的孩子——察觉到父母正在介入他们仅有的两个专属领域之一时。

Because we get so stressed and when kids, especially if you don't have a people pleaser, okay, when kids even smell my parent is stepping into one of the only two domains that are mine.

天哪，他们会做出各种疯狂的事情来把你推开。

Holy moly, will they do nutty things like, to to push you back.

对吧？

Right?

那么，总体的教训是什么？

And so what's the general lesson?

人类的教训是，对于一个人来说，生活中能自己掌控的领域这么少，会是什么感觉？

The human lesson is what is it like for someone to have not that many areas of life that they're in control of?

第一，好好想想这一点。

Number one, just think about that.

想想你孩子一天开始的前十分钟。

Think about the first ten minutes of your kid's day.

我们叫醒他们。

We wake them up.

我们告诉他们天气怎么样。

We tell them what the weather is.

我们对他们说不行。

We tell them, no.

你不可以穿那件衣服。

You can't wear that.

我们告诉他们早餐吃什么。

We tell them what's for breakfast.

我们还会告诉他们，衬衫穿反了。

We, you know, tell them their shirt's on the wrong way.

如果我丈夫用这种方式叫醒我，我一整天都会心情不好。

It just if my husband woke me up that way, I would be in a bad mood the rest of the day.

明白吗？

Okay?

我可能会拼命寻找各种方式去争取掌控感，以此向世界呐喊：我是我自己的主人。

And I'd probably be looking for a million different areas to just grasp control of as a way of screaming to the world like, I am my own person.

对吧？

Right?

如果我们把这一点应用到职场中，首先，从性格上来说，有一部分人。

And so if we think about that in the workplace, well, first of all, temperamentally, there are a subset of people.

我把他们称为坚韧的叛逆者。

I call these the resilient rebels.

他们表现得像意志坚定、叛逆的孩子，而我认为，我们每个人内心都深藏着一种恐惧，害怕自己最终也会如此行事。

They present as like strong willed, defiant kids, whose I think we all walk around with a core fear that we end up acting out.

他们最深层的恐惧是失去控制。

Their core fear is the loss of control.

他们对别人踏入自己的领域非常敏感，一旦察觉到，就会抗拒。

They are very, very attuned to people kind of stepping into their domain, and if they smell it, they resist.

我们成年人中也有这样的人。

Well, we have those as adults too.

和他们合作可能比较棘手，而且我们需要设定合理的预期。

They could be it's tricky to collaborate with them, and again, we need to have an expectation.

但当我们问别人改一下会议时间时，可能会想：为什么反应这么大？

But we might see that as why do I ask someone to switch a meeting time?

他们的反应让我觉得，就像我拿刀刺进了他们的心里。

And and it feels like I I took a knife to their heart the way they react.

对吧？

Right?

也许这个主题正在浮现，我们可以再深入一层：比如，我随便举个例子，有人在团队里比他们先得到了晋升。

Well, that theme might be coming up, and maybe we can go one level deeper and say, this someone who in general, I'm making this up, but, oh, someone got promoted before they did on their team.

他们刚刚换了经理。

They just had a change in manager.

他们的假期被拒绝了。

They just had their vacation denied.

不管是什么原因，我们真的在谈这个吗？

Whatever it was, oh, like, is that actually what we're talking about?

这表现为难以更改会议时间，但实际上，背后还有控制和独立性的其他因素在起作用。

And it's manifesting as this difficulty changing meaning time, But actually, there's other themes of control and independence at play.

也许这里的教训是，明确说明在这个团队、这个项目中，你负责哪些部分。

Is maybe a lesson here is clarifying here's what you own on this team, on this project.

这些是你将主导的事情。

Here's things that you're gonna drive.

这些是我会深度参与的地方。

Here's where I'm gonna be really involved.

这会不会是一个关键的收获？

Is that, is that maybe a takeaway?

我觉得这确实是一个重要的收获。

I think that is definitely a takeaway.

我也特别喜欢明确表达你的意图。

I also just love, like, naming your intention.

这总是非常有帮助的。

That's always really helpful.

嘿。

Hey.

你知道吗？

You know?

我想和你一起过一遍这个项目，因为我希望提前解决一些问题，而且我觉得这实际上能帮你更独立地工作。

I wanna look over this project together because I wanna get ahead of some things, and I think that's actually gonna help you do the most independent work.

这就是为什么我想这么详细地过一遍。

That's why I wanna go through it in such detail.

当你非常清晰地向某人说明你的意图时，他们更有可能根据你所表达的意图来理解你的行为，因为你的意图并不是要控制他们或让他们感到渺小。

Like, when you name the intention very, very clearly for someone, they're much more likely to interpret your behavior through the intention you just named because your intention isn't to control them or make them feel small.

但如果这也是他们偏好的方式，那么这些人更需要提前明确自己的意图。

But if that's also something they have a predilection for, it's even more important for those people to do the naming of the intention upfront.

而且，这当中还涉及一种全方位的微观管理，我不确定该怎么说。

And there's also just a whole micromanaging, I don't know, element to this.

这就是为什么人们部分讨厌微观管理，因为我想掌控一些事情。

This is why people in part hate micromanagement, like, I want to be I want to be in control some.

为什么要摆脱这种状态呢？

Why get out of this?

是的，这就像一种默契的互动，你知道的。

Yeah, which is a dance, you know?

没错。

Exactly.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

你教的另一件事，我觉得非常有帮助，就是成为一位坚定的父母，学会变得坚定。

Something else that you teach that, I find really helpful is this idea of sturdy, becoming a sturdy parent, learning to be sturdy.

这感觉和成为一名优秀的领导者非常相关，就像学习如何应对挑战一样。

That feels very, related to being a good leader, just like learning how to deal with challenges.

从孩子的角度谈谈这一点，以及它可能如何发挥作用。

Talk about that from the kid's context and then how it might be useful and work.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为这就是‘Good Inside’的核心所在。

I think that's the essence of what Good Inside does.

我们帮助父母成为坚定的领导者，从而养育出坚定、自信的孩子。

Like, we help parents become sturdy leaders so they can raise sturdy, confident kids.

当我刚开始做这件事时，我经常用这个词。

And and when I started this, I'd use that word a lot.

人们会告诉我，我从未听过有人用过这个词。

People would say to me, I've never heard anyone use that word.

我知道这个词的意思。

I know what it means.

但我也会思考语言，我喜欢那些能帮我唤起画面或感觉的词语。

But I think about language too, and I like language that helps me conjure up an image or a feeling.

它能把这些想法从我脑子里移走。

It takes it out of my brain.

我觉得‘稳重’这个词，如果你想象一下你生活中的人，即使你没特意想过，谁是你认识的稳重的人？

And I think the word sturdy, if you picture someone in your life, even if you haven't thought about them, like, who's the sturdy person I know?

我打赌你能大致定位到这个人，你能在脑海中看到他们，而且你会对他们有一种感觉。

Like, I bet you can kind of locate them, you see them, and and there's a feeling you have around them.

我认为我们身边最好的领导者都是稳重的。

And I think the best leaders we have are are sturdy.

所以我通常会从一个隐喻开始，因为我真的觉得这样能让概念活起来。

And so I'll I'll start about with start it with a metaphor because I actually think that brings it to life.

我觉得这在育儿和工作场所中同样适用。

And I think this is as true in parenting and in, you know, the workplace.

想象一下你正在飞机上当一名乘客。

So picture being a passenger on on a flight.

飞机剧烈颠簸。

It's really turbulent.

你开始尖叫，其他人也跟着尖叫。

And you start screaming, and everyone starts screaming.

明白吗？

Okay?

于是机上所有人都恐慌了。

So everyone's panicked in the flight.

然后你听到了飞行员的广播。

And then you hear the announcement from the pilot.

我认为广播大概有三种类型。

And I think there's three types of announcements you can have.

第三种就是稳重的那种。

The third one's gonna be the sturdy one.

前两种就没那么多了。

The first two, not as much.

第一种是类似‘你至于这么慌张吗？’这样的说法。

So the first one is some version of, what are you freaking out about?

别喊了。

Stop screaming.

你让整个航班变得糟糕透顶，还分散了我的注意力，别把小事搞得这么严重。

You're you're making this flight awful for everyone, and you're distracting me, and stop making a big deal out of nothing.

当我们对小孩说这些话时，就是这种语气。

And that's kind of when we say those words to a kid.

别慌。

Stop freaking out.

你把大家都搞砸了。

You're ruining this for everyone.

对吧？

Right?

但事实上，如果你想象自己在飞机上，飞行员对你说这些话，你并不会感到更平静。

But the truth is if you think about yourself in a flight and the pilot says that, you don't feel calmer.

第一，你会担心他们根本没有注意到颠簸。

Number one, you're worried they don't notice the turbulence.

第二，你会有点不安，因为只有当你大喊大叫时，飞行员才会对你发火。

Number two, you're a little disturbed that it just takes your screaming to make the pilot, like, kinda lose it at you.

对吧？

Right?

而这实际上会让你感觉更不安全。

And that actually makes you feel less safe.

对吧？

Right?

这就像在会议上，有人表达了不舒服的感受，而领导却直接说：别抱怨了。

And so that's like in a meeting where people, I don't know, voice something that doesn't feel good and the leader essentially is like, stop complaining.

你知道吧？

You know?

这不够牢固。

That's not sturdy.

第二种版本通常也不够牢固，而且我们认为，在育儿方面，我们至少有点矫枉过正了，就像飞行员说：嘿。

The second version is often not also not sturdy and they think we've a little bit, at least in parenting, overcorrected to this, which is a pilot saying, like, hey.

你在尖叫吗？

Are you screaming?

你知道吗？

You know what?

我要打开驾驶舱门了。

I'm opening the cockpit door.

有谁想开飞机吗？因为你的尖叫让我感到焦虑，我真不知道该怎么办了。

Does anyone wanna fly the plane because your screaming has made me anxious, and I'm not really sure what to do?

也许你们中有人想试试。

Maybe one of you wanna do it.

我认为这在育儿中是一种巨大的矫枉过正，我想明确说明，这并不是我们在‘Good Inside’的做法——当我的孩子情绪低落时，我们不会让他们的情绪左右我的决定。

I think that's a massive overcorrection I've seen in parenting, and I just wanna make it very clear that is not what we do at Good Inside, which is kind of my kid is upset, and instead of just caring about their feelings, now their feelings dictate my decisions.

这对飞机上的乘客来说太可怕了。

That's terrifying for someone on a flight.

如果是我，我甚至不再害怕颠簸了。

If that's me, I'm not even scared of the turbulence anymore.

我害怕的是，这个居然是我所谓的领导者。

I'm scared that this person is my supposed leader.

对吧？

Right?

在会议中，当你抱怨事情时，领导可能会说，哦，好的。

That's also in a meeting when you complain about things and, you know, a leader might say, Oh, okay.

你知道吗？

You know what?

好吧。

Okay.

我们就这件事达成共识吧。

We'll just get consensus on this.

当需要做决定时，那是领导者的决策，而不是共识决策——有些决策可以是共识，但有些不行，因为你才是唯一掌握某些信息的人。

When it's a decision, that's a leadership decision, not a consensus decision, which some decisions are, but some decisions aren't because you are the only one who has certain information.

现在，对我来说，在剧烈颠簸时我想听到的第三个公告是这样的。

Now, to me is the third announcement that I wanna hear when it's really turbulent is something like this.

我听到后面所有人都在尖叫。

I hear everyone screaming back there.

这说得通。

That makes sense.

你坐的航班也没那么多。

And you haven't been on as many flights.

你说得对。

You're right.

颠簸得厉害。

It's very bumpy.

我知道自己在做什么。

And I know what I'm doing.

这种颠簸虽然让你害怕，但并不会让我害怕。

This turbulence, though it scares you, it doesn't scare me.

我现在就要关闭广播，回去继续工作了。

I'm actually gonna get off this loudspeaker right now to go back to do my job.

我们抵达洛杉矶时再见。

I'll see you when we land in Los Angeles.

即使颠簸程度相同，我突然间深吸了一口气，因为我的担忧得到了控制。

Now even if the turbulence is the same, all of a sudden, I feel this deep breath because my worry is contained.

这位坚定的领导者能够理解我的情绪体验对我而言是真实的，而不会被它压垮。

This sturdy leader is able to see my emotional experience as real for me and not be overwhelmed by it themself.

这就是成为一名坚定领导者的两个不同方面。

Those are the two distinct aspects of being a sturdy leader.

我能意识到他人的体验对他们来说是真实的，但同时我仍能坚持自己的感受。

I can see someone else's experience as real for them, but I can still hold on to my experience.

因此，我不会被他人的情绪所压倒。

And so I'm not overwhelmed by someone else.

所以对孩子来说，这可能意味着：听好了，电视时间结束了。

So to a kid, it might be saying, look, let's say TV time is over.

明白吗？

Okay?

在我的家里，我的孩子不会得到奖励。

And my kid does not reward in my house.

当我宣布电视时间结束时，我会直接关掉电视。

When I say TV time is over, I'm turning off the TV.

当我的孩子们还小的时候，他们不会说：‘妈妈，你说得对。’

When my kids were younger, they didn't say, you're right, mom.

这是个很棒的决定。

That's a great decision.

不会。

No.

明白吗？

Okay?

他们崩溃了，因为他们还想再看一集。

They freaked out because they wanted to watch another one.

所以一个坚定的领导者在这种情况下会说：我关掉电视了。

So a sturdy leader would say in that position, I'm turning the TV off.

这是我的决定。

That's my decision.

我理解你很不高兴。

I get that you're upset.

我也不太喜欢结束看电视的时间。

I don't really like to end TV time either.

但我知道我们能挺过去。

I also know we'll get through it.

你先做你的事，然后我们去刷牙。

Do your thing, and then we'll transition to brushing teeth.

然后我就耐心等着。

And then I kinda wait it out.

对吧？

Right?

或者在职场中，有人抱怨一些我不知道的事情。

Or in the workplace, someone's complaining about I don't know.

我这是编的，但也许是某种政策变更、休假调整、办公室的天数之类的，你会说：听着，我要分享一件事，我知道有些人会有反应。

I'm making this up, but maybe it's some policy change, vacation change, number of days, you know, in the office where you say, look, I'm gonna make it I wanna share something that I know some people are gonna have reaction to.

这是新政策。

Here's the new policy.

大家别再抱怨了。

People stop tripping, complaining.

听着，我明白。

Look, I get it.

这是一个很大的变化，你说得对。

This is a big change, and you're right.

这确实在某些方面让事情变难了，我完全理解，你这种感受是合理的。

This does make things hard in a certain way, and I totally see that, and the way you're feeling makes sense.

而且这里有一些我们这样做的原因，我知道我们一定能挺过去。

And here's some version of why we're doing it, and I know we're gonna get through it.

我相信我们能够度过这段动荡时期。

And I have faith in us to weather this turbulence.

对吧？

Right?

我认为在每一种情况下——无论是孩子、职场、法律，还是其他任何事——那种坚定的领导力总是让人感觉特别安心。

And I think in every situation, kids, you know, workplace, in laws, whatever it is, that sturdy leadership that, you know, always always feels good.

这真是一个很好的过渡，正好引出了我特别想问你的一个问题，那就是关于如何很好地设定界限，以及这与长期韧性之间的关系，而不是仅仅追求短期的快乐。

This is a really good segue to something I definitely wanted to ask you about, which is this idea of boundaries of how to set boundaries well and how that relates to long term resilience versus just kind of this idea of short term happiness.

我昨天刚看了你关于如何给孩子设定界限的建议，因为我有时候在这方面很挣扎，总在想：我哪里做错了？

I was just yesterday watching your advice on how to set boundaries with my kid because I struggle with it sometimes and I'm just like, what am I doing wrong?

你的建议非常有帮助。

And it was extremely helpful.

我开始采用你的建议后，发现他真的在做我期望他做的事。

I started using your advice and I'm like, wow, he's doing exactly what I want him to do.

所以这里蕴含着很大的力量。

So there's a lot of power here.

那么谈谈你给父母的建议，关于界限、长期韧性，以及这些理念如何应用。

So talk about just from the your advice to parents around boundaries and this idea of long term resilience and then how that might translate.

是的。

Yeah.

因此，我认为作为一位坚定的领导者，为了更具体一些，我们作为父母有两个职责。

And so I think related to being a sturdy leader, to make it more concrete, there's two jobs we have as a parent.

我认为这和我们在任何环境中作为坚定领导者所承担的两个职责是一样的。

I think they're the same two jobs we have as any sturdy leader in any environment.

那就是设定界限，也就是我们设定的限制和做出的某些决定。

And that's setting boundaries, which are limits we set, certain decisions we make.

界限通常与你的权威地位相关，你心中有一个长期目标，而系统中的其他人，比如两岁的孩子，可能并不清楚或无法坚持这个目标，因此才需要你来做决定。

Boundaries often relate to your position of authority, where you have some long term goal in mind that someone else in the system just isn't as aware of or a two year old isn't as capable of holding onto, which is why you're in the position of making a decision.

这就是界限。

So that's the boundaries.

另一方面是认可孩子或其他人的感受，但不被其完全主导。

And the other side is validating kids or someone else's experience while not being taken over by it.

我认为我们已经过于偏向认可孩子的体验了，我要明确地说，仅认可孩子的感受是一种不完整的育儿方式。

And I think we've moved so far in this direction of validating kids' experience, and I'll go on record and saying validating kids' feelings is an incomplete parenting approach.

这确实是我们的职责之一，但如果缺少另一半——即设定界限——它就无法奏效，而我认为设定界限正是我们最需要教导的技能，因为这往往是我们的短板。

That is that is half of our job, but it doesn't work if we're not doing the other half, which is setting boundaries, which is the skill I feel best about teaching people because I think it's what we're often lacking.

所以，我对界限的定义我很喜欢，因为它立即可用且可检验。

So my definition of boundaries, I I do like because it's immediately usable and testable.

界限是你告诉别人你会做什么，而不需要对方做任何事。

Boundaries are what you tell someone else you will do, and it requires the other person to do nothing.

人们常常说：‘我的孩子不尊重我的界限。’

Too often, hear people say, my kid doesn't respect my boundaries.

我的同事不尊重我的界限。

My colleague doesn't respect my boundaries.

恕我直言，我常常觉得，你们对界限的理解是错误的。

And with all due respect, I often think, I I think you have an incorrect definition of boundaries.

我认为你很可能是在提出一个请求，顺便说一句，我们经常这么做。

I think you're probably making a request, which, by the way, we do a lot.

请求本身没什么错，但它不是界限。

There's nothing wrong with requests, but it's not a boundary.

因为如果你自以为在设定界限，实际上却是在提出请求，那你就是在把所有的主动权交给对方。

Because if you're setting what you call a boundary and you're really making a request, you're giving all of your power away to the other person.

因为你是在说，这个重要时刻的成功取决于我两岁的孩子？

Because you're saying the success of this important moment depends on my two year old?

什么？

What?

我不会把我的主动权交给我的两岁孩子，我总是告诉父母：我每天都会押注在你身上，而不是你的孩子，这并不是因为我讨厌你的孩子。

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give my power to my two year old, and I always tell parents, I would bet on you any day over your kid, and it's not because I don't like your kid.

我很喜欢你的孩子。

I do like your kid.

我只是更相信你。

I just believe in you more.

所以，一个很好的例子是，我有个孩子，就像我之前描述的那样，不是那种讨好型人格。

And so a good example of this, let's say, is I have a kid like I was describing before who's not a people pleaser.

我住在纽约市。

And so I live in New York City.

我们住的楼里有很多电梯按钮，这个孩子小时候，如果没人管他——这种情况确实发生过——他会把所有电梯按钮都按一遍。

We live in a building with a lot of elevator buttons where this kid, when he was younger, if he was left to his own devices, which had happened, he would press every elevator button.

所有的按钮。

Everyone.

明白吗？

Okay?

对于我的其他孩子，尤其是其中一个，我可能本来可以提出一个请求。

And with my other kids, one of them especially, I probably would have been able to make a request.

比如，我会说：嘿，等我们进电梯的时候，千万别把所有按钮都按了。

Like, hey, when we go in the elevator later, it's really important not to press all the buttons.

其他人都在等这部电梯。

Other people wait for this elevator.

这很不礼貌。

It's rude.

不管是什么情况。

Whatever it is.

这不算一个界限。

That's not a boundary.

因为我会问自己：我有没有告诉孩子我会怎么做？

Because I could say, did I tell my kid what I will do?

没有。

No.

这需要孩子什么都不做吗？

Does it require my kid to do nothing?

不需要。

No.

明白吗？

Okay?

一个界限是当我们进入电梯时，我会站在你和按钮之间，亲爱的。

A boundary would be saying when we go into the elevator, I'm gonna stand between you and the buttons, sweetie.

因为我不让你按按钮，因为其他人正在等。

Because I'm not gonna let you press the buttons, because other people are waiting.

如果你有个像我孩子那样的孩子，他们还是会冲向按钮。

And if you have a kid like my kid, they're gonna lunge for it anyway.

然后我会挡住我的孩子，因为我已经做好准备，并且锻炼过了。

And then I would block my kid because I'm ready and I've done a workout.

我的肌肉已经就位了。

My muscles are right.

我不会让你这么做。

I'm not gonna let you do that.

现在我的孩子可能会生气，但这让我能完成工作的另一部分。

Now my kid might get upset, which allows me to do the other part of my jobs.

唉，我知道你希望你能按那些按钮，或者至少友善地看看他，什么也不说，但我还是会坚持我的界限。

Ugh, I know you wish you could press those buttons or maybe just look kindly toward him and not say anything, but I'm gonna still hold my boundary.

在这个例子中，我认为作为父母，我们容易出问题的地方是说：‘别按按钮。’

And in this example, I think one of the places we get into trouble as a parent is we say, don't press the buttons.

如果你按了按钮，今晚就没甜点了，之类的。

If you press the buttons, no dessert tonight or whatever.

我们总是用威胁的方式。

We, like, threaten.

但所有这些做法实际上都在彻底削弱我们的权威，因为我把所有的权力都交给了孩子。

But all of that is a way of completely undermining our authority because I'm giving all of my power to my kid.

我让自己变得烦躁。

I'm letting myself get frustrated.

现在我要没收甜点，但说实话，如果我们坦诚面对的话，晚上我还是会给孩子吃冰沙，然后编个理由说冰沙不算甜点，因为里面有水果——这一切都只是因为我一开始就没设立界限。

Now I'm taking away dessert, and the honest truth, if we wanna be honest about it, is at night, I'm gonna give my kids sorbet anyway and then make up something how sorbet isn't dessert because it has fruit, all because I just didn't set a boundary in the first place.

我认为在育儿过程中，甚至在工作中，我们一遍又一遍地让孩子替我们完成本该由我们承担的责任，因为我们只是不想面对情绪上的后果。

And I think over and over in parenting, maybe at work too, we're asking our kid to do our job for us because we just don't wanna deal with the emotional fallout.

但这就是我所说的角色混淆，会让每个人都感到沮丧。

But that's what I call job confusion and makes makes everyone frustrated.

你的营销网站设定了品牌的基调，是每一位客户都会接触到的唯一接触点。

Your marketing website sets the tone for your brand and is the one touch point that every single one of your customers sees.

在当今时代，如果你仍然难以对网站进行小改动或简单更新，那你一定做错了什么。

In today's age, if you're still having a hard time making small changes and simple updates to it, you're doing something wrong.

这就是为什么从早期初创公司到财富500强企业，包括SpaceX、DoorDash、Zapier、Proplexity和Eleven Labs等公司，都选择了Framer——这个将你的.com网站从形式转变为增长工具的建站平台。

That is why so many companies from early stage startups to Fortune five hundreds, including companies like SpaceX, DoorDash, Zapier, Proplexity, and Eleven Labs turned to Framer, the website builder that turns your.com from a formality into a tool for growth.

Framer就像你团队最喜爱的设计工具，支持实时协作、内置完整的CMS以满足所有SEO需求，并提供包含集成A/B测试的高级分析功能。

Framer works like your team's favorite design tool and comes with real time collaboration, a robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO, and advanced analytics that includes integrated AB testing.

对Framer网站的任何更改，只需单击一下，几秒钟内即可上线，无需工程团队协助。

Changes to your Framework site go live to the web in seconds with a single click and without any help from engineering.

无论你是想推出新网站、测试几个着陆页，还是迁移整个网站，Framer都为初创公司、成长型企业和大型企业提供了相应方案，让从创意到上线的过程尽可能简单快捷。

Whether you wanna launch a new site, test a few landing pages, or migrate your full.com, Framer has programs for startups, scale ups, and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site as easy and fast as possible.

了解如何将你的网站转变为增长引擎，或立即免费开始使用，访问 framer.com/leni。

Learn how to turn your website into a growth engine from a Framer expert, or just get started building for free today at framer.com/leni.

如果你是Lenny的产品通行证订阅者，你将免费获得一整年的Framer Pro服务。

And if you're a Lenny's product pass subscriber, you get an entire year of Framer Pro for free.

请前往 framer.com/leni 了解详情。

Check it out at framer.com/leni.

规则和限制可能适用。

Rules and restrictions may apply.

既然我们谈到这个话题，我想顺便问你一个育儿问题，因为我正试图

Let me actually ask you a parenting question while we're this topic because I'm trying

学习这一点

to learn this

更好地理解界限问题。

boundaries thing better.

所以，如果他们不愿意上车，我会说，好吧。

So is it is it what's the correct way to if they're not going to the car, and I'm like, okay.

如果你不自己走，我就把你抱到车上去。

I'm gonna carry you to the car if you don't do this.

我仍然在请求他们自己去那里。

I'm still requesting them, like, to go there.

有没有另一种说法，让他们什么都不用做？

Is there another is there a way to phrase that where they don't need to do anything?

嗯，如果界限意味着当他们不需要孩子做任何事时，我就会这么做，是的。

Well, so if boundaries are something I will do when they require my kid to do nothing Yeah.

我们想试试看。

We wanna try look.

我们必须上车，不管我尝试什么。

We have to get in the car and whatever I try.

我试着玩个游戏。

I try a game.

我试着唱首歌。

I try a song.

而且，意图才是关键。

And then again, the the intention matters.

我之所以要把孩子抱到车里，其实是因为我不想让自己迟到，然后对小孩大喊大叫、感到沮丧。

The reason I'm gonna carry my kid to the car is actually I don't wanna let myself then be late and then yell at my kid and be frustrated.

对。

Right.

对吧？

Right?

我是因为喜欢我的孩子才这么做的，我和他们是同一阵线的。

Like, I'm doing it because I like my kid, and and I'm on the same team as them.

所以我会说，你看。

So then I might say, look.

看起来你很难走到车那儿。

It looks like it's hard for you to get to the car.

我其实不想这么做，但我不知道。

I don't really wanna do this, but I don't know.

我要转过身去。

I'm gonna turn around.

我要深呼吸一下。

I'm gonna take a deep breath.

如果我转过身时你还在那儿，我就把你抱起来。

And if by the time I turn around, you're still here, I'm gonna pick you up.

我会把你抱到车里。

I'm gonna carry you to the car.

即使你在哭、在踢、在尖叫，我依然会这么做，宝贝。

And even if you're crying and kicking and screaming, I'm still gonna do that, sweetie.

我知道有时候离开家确实很难。

I know sometimes it's hard to leave the house.

但我们确实得走了。

We do have to leave.

现在，我要深呼吸了。

Here comes my deep breath.

现在，我特别想强调的是，我认为在我们内心深处，我们总觉得‘我会这么做’。

Now, what's really important, I don't wanna understate, is I think somewhere in us, we think, I'm gonna do that.

然后，我的孩子会因为我的良好育儿方式而给予我回报。

And then I'm gonna be rewarded by my kid for my good parenting.

我的意思是，我转过身去，他们可能会说：‘爸爸，我现在准备好了。’

Like, I'm gonna turn around, and they're gonna be like, I'm ready now, dad.

在某些家庭里，这种情况可能会发生，但除非你反复设立界限，而且这些界限不是为了防止孩子利用你，否则这种情况不会稳定地出现。

Like, that might happen in some households, but it actually won't reliably happen until you've actually set boundaries over and over where it's not about taking advantage of you.

他们只是在学习这个游戏的规则。

They're just trying to learn the rules of the game.

对吧？

Right?

然后我会把我的孩子抱起来。

And so then I would pick up my kid.

顺便说一句，根据你孩子的性格，我的三个孩子中有两个会大哭大闹。

And by the way, depending on your kid's temperament, two out of three of my kids would scream and cry.

然后我们对自己说：‘哦，我不是个好父母。’

And then we tell ourselves, oh, I'm not a good parent.

我把这事搞砸了。

I messed that up.

不。

No.

再次强调，飞行员在某些关键时刻做决定，并不是基于共识。

Again, like a pilot is gonna make a decision in certain key moments, not based on consensus.

比如说，我正飞往洛杉矶，遇到严重颠簸，飞行员说必须紧急降落，所有人都在抱怨，说：‘什么？’

Like, let's say I'm flying to LA and it's really turbulent, and the pilot says they have to make emergency landing and everyone's complaining, and they're like, what?

这不至于这么严重吧。

Can't be that big of a deal.

我不确定那是不是一个指示灯。

I don't know if that's a light.

我在洛杉矶有个重要会议。

I have a big meeting in LA.

你能想象如果飞行员说：‘贝基和伦尼对这个很不满吗？’

Can you imagine if the pilot was like, Becky and Lenny are really upset about this?

你们知道吗，各位？

You know what, guys?

算了。

Forget it.

算了。

Forget it.

别管紧急降落了。

Forget the emergency landing.

什么？

What?

即使我们感到不安，我们也深深感到安全，因为我们的领导者正基于他们所掌握的信息，做着他们认为正确的事。

Even if we were upset, we feel deeply, deeply safe that our leader is doing something they believe is right with the information they have available.

所以，即使我在堪萨斯下飞机时（无论我中途降落在哪里）还在抱怨，我内心深处也充满感激。

So even if I'm complaining when I get off the plane in Kansas, wherever I'm landing midway, I also, in the back of my head, are I'm so grateful.

所以我只是想让父母知道，当你设立一个真正的界限时，尤其是如果这是新的界限，你的孩子会发脾气、抗议。

And so I just want parents to know when you set a true boundary, especially if it's new, your kid will tantrum and protest.

但如果你把这看作是你成功设立界限的标志，而不是你做错了什么的迹象，你与孩子发脾气的关系就会改变。

But if you actually see that as a sign that you're successfully setting a boundary, instead of as a sign you did something wrong, your relationship with a tantrum changes.

你对收到一个你设定了界限的信号，竟然感到异常地感激。

You're almost oddly sickly grateful for a sign that you set a boundary.

你会想，哦，这其实正是我对自己说的，事情正按计划进行，这让整个时刻变得轻松多了。

You're like, oh, this is actually I would say to myself, this is going according to plan, and it makes the moment so much easier.

你关于成为领导者的建议非常重要，我能看出它与工作环境紧密相关。

This advice you give about being the leader is really important, and I could see how it connects deeply to in the work environment.

我想知道，那里还有没有更多的建议？

I'm curious just if there's more advice there.

我听到的观点是，无论作为孩子还是在工作环境中，人们都希望你成为他们的领导者。

So the idea that I've been hearing is just like people want you to be their leader both as a kid and in the work environment.

他们不希望你只是说：‘大家觉得怎么样？’

They don't want you to be like, okay, what does everyone think?

我们投票吧。

Let's vote.

谈谈这其中的洞察力吧。

Talk about just the insight there.

是的

Yeah.

首先，我觉得有两件事是成立的。

First of all, I think, like, lot of things, two things are true.

确实有需要达成共识的时候。

There's definitely a time for consensus.

也有需要获得百分之百支持的时候。

There's a time for getting a 100%.

这也是领导力非常重要的一部分。

That's a really important part of leadership too.

但本质上，你处于领导位置，是因为你拥有别人没有的经验、洞察力和判断力。

But inherently, you're in a position of leadership because you have experience other people don't have, you have insight, you have judgment.

你可能只是 literally 拥有其他人无法接触到的公司信息和数据。

You might, like, just very literally have access to company information and data that other people don't have.

对吧？

That right?

所以你们并不是基于相同的信息在工作。

And so you're not all working, you know, from the same set of information.

因此，确实存在需要达成共识的时候。

And so there's definitely a time for consensus building.

但在育儿方面，我想我们可能矫枉过正了。

But at least in parenting, think we've overcorrected.

如果我们在工作世界中也矫枉过正了，我需要收集更多相关数据。

You know, I need to collect more data from the working world if we've overcorrected.

我认为，当人们听到类似‘我认真听取了你们所有人的意见’这样的话时，会感觉非常好。

That I think it feels really good for people to hear some version of, I took in everything you said.

你们的声音很重要。

Your voices matter.

我想和大家分享一个我基于所有掌握信息所做出的决定。

And I wanna share a decision I've made with all the information I have.

这个决定可能在当时对你们所有人来说都未必合理。

It might not make sense to all of you at the time.

你可以单独来找我聊聊。

You can come talk to me separately.

我坚信，这就是我们接下来要尝试的事情。

And I have conviction that this is the next thing we're gonna experiment with.

不管最终决定是什么。

Whatever the decision is.

你知道，我之前说过这个词，它总是我常说的一个词，可能别人不太这么说。

You know, I said this word earlier, and it's always a word I it's another word I say that maybe other people don't say.

我总是被那些我能理解的人吸引。

I'm always drawn to people I can locate.

就是这个词。

That's the word.

我再次强调，我能理解你。

I just again, like, I can locate you.

我知道你的感受。

I know what you feel.