产品战略操作指南 | 查andra·贾纳基拉曼（VRChat首席产品官，前Meta、Headspace、Zynga）

我觉得这是个好问题，伦尼。

I think it's a good question, Lenny.

我会说，这个流程在成长型公司或大型公司内部的某个垂直领域中效果很好。

I would say that the process works well at a sort of a growth stage company or in a vertical within sort of a larger company.

我认为它的可扩展性很强。

I think it scales pretty well.

这个小策略和大策略之间的主要区别在于时间维度和愿景成分，这部分我们稍后会讲到。

It's the the main difference between this small s and big s is the sort of the time horizon aspect and and, you know, and the sort of the aspirational component which which we'll get.

好的。

Okay.

所以这是一个适用于非大型公司整体战略的流程，而不是大规模的业务。

So this is a process you can use for entire company strategy of a not a large company, not a massive lease.

是的。

Yeah.

也可以用于公司内部的某个产品。

And then also just like a product within a company.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

完美。

Perfect.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们正在为这件事启动战略规划。

So, hey, we're kicking off strategy for this thing.

比如说，VRChat 2.0。

Let's say VRChat two point o.

你和你的工作组召开了启动会议。

You have this kickoff meeting with your working group.

你分配了行动项，有五到六件事要求大家去做。

You assign action items, and there's five there's six things you ask everyone to do.

收集所有行为洞察、用户研究洞察，包括领导访谈、访谈相关人员，了解他们的需求、期望和成功标准，进行竞品分析，参考其他团队的相邻路线图，以及用户观察——直接观察用户，看他们在做什么。

Gather all the behavioral insights, all the user research insights that you've had, leadership interviews, interview people, ask what they want, see what they're hoping for, what success look like, competitive analysis, adjacent roadmaps across other teams, and user observations, just like watch users, see what's happening.

然后你把这些任务分别分配给这个工作组里的不同成员。

And they you assign tasks, each of these tasks to different people in this working group.

你设定一个截止日期。

You set a deadline.

我们必须在四周内完成这个汇报。

We have to present this in, say, four weeks.

大家各自去完成自己的任务。

People go work on it.

在进展过程中，你们持续开会，最终产出一份演示文稿并分享出去。

You meet ongoing as it's coming together, and then the output is a deck that you share.

你是只把这个演示文稿分享给这个工作组，还是也会分享给其他人，并向他们做讲解？

And do you share this deck with just that working group, or do you who do you share this deck with and read it out to you?

是的。

Yeah.

所以这个演示文稿是第一阶段的产出，然后它会进入第二阶段，即战略冲刺。

So the deck is a an output of the first phase, and then it flows into the second phase, which is a strategy sprint.

所以你还不把这份演示文稿分享给任何人。

So you don't share the deck with anybody yet.

明白了。

Got it.

当进行战略冲刺时，这是一个关键环节。

When the strategy sprint, it's like a key thing.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

Awesome.

好的。

Okay.

我喜欢这种方式，非常具体且可操作，有明确的时间框、行动项和你期望的精确产出。

I love how very concrete and actionable this is with time boxes and action items and the exact output you're looking for.

我喜欢这个。

I love this.

好的。

Okay.

不错。

Cool.

所以，你在这里本质上是收集所有将影响策略的输入信息。

So basically, what you're trying to do here is gather all of the input that will inform the strategy.

没错。

That's correct.

而且你给自己留出时间来做这件事，因为你知道，如果你仔细想想，输出的结果取决于输入的质量。

And it's giving yourself time to do this because, you know, if you think about it, the output is determined by the quality of your input.

我喜欢的是，这种方法的核心组成部分之一就是花时间收集所有输入信息，最好的输入。

And I love, feels like a core component of this method is spend time creating gathering the all the input, all the best input.

真的要花时间在这方面。

Like, actually spend time there.

别只是随便应付，搞成临阵磨枪的事儿。

Don't just, like, make it a half assed last minute thing.

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Amazing.

好的。

Okay.

我们来谈谈第二步，也就是策略冲刺。

Let's talk about step two, which is, the strategy sprint.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，策略冲刺是整个过程的核心。

So so the strategy sprint is the heart of the process.

这正是你做决定的地方。

This is this is sort of where you make the decision.

所以，如果你还记得策略的定义，它实际上是迫使你做出选择，将资源投入到少数几个领域，以实现最大影响。

So if you if you recall the sort of the definition of strategy is, you know, it forces choice to deploy resources into into your, sort of a few areas for maximum impact.

因此，策略的核心其实就是选择你要投入的领域，以及你不会投资的领域。

So so the core of strategy is really sort of picking those areas and the areas you're not gonna invest in.

而这些决策就是在策略冲刺中完成的。

And and so that happens in the strategy sprint.

所以，这实际上是整个过程的核心。

So really, it's the heart of the process.

通常来说，这个过程持续三到五天。

So so typically, it's like a three to five day process.

第一天是分享日。

The first day is is the share out day.

每个人都已经做了很棒的工作。

So everybody has done some great work.

他们进来分享自己收集到的信息和学到的内容，从而让整个工作组对当前的整体状况达成一致的理解和认知。

They go in, they share sort of what they've collected, what they've sort of learned, and so it brings everybody in the working group to the same state of understanding, the same state of consciousness on the state of the union.

所以这是一个很好的过程，我鼓励大家在听的时候把那些我们认为是用户痛点、阻碍我们增长的问题，以及对业务来说不够理想的地方都记下来。

So that's a great, you know, process where, you know, what I encourage people to do is is write down things that you're as you're listening, write down things that you find are problems for our users, things that are coming in the way of our growth, and things that are suboptimal for, you know, the business.

因此，大家在这段时间里会做大量笔记，而汇报的人则分享他们所学到的一切，这就是第一天的内容。

And so people take a lot of notes during that time, and the people who are presenting are sharing everything they've learned, and that's really day one.

这就像吸收大量信息并写下大量笔记，让大家能大致了解所有问题所在。

It's like just absorbing a ton of information and writing down a ton of notes so people can kind of understand, you know, where all the sort of the problems are.

这是一个非常以问题为导向的过程，这一点很重要。

And it's a very problems focused process, and that's an important point.

等我们谈到大写的S时，我会再回到这一点，因为那是不一样的。

I'll get back to it, you know, when we talk about big S, which is different.

一旦大家对所有问题有了共同的认知和共享的了解，第二天就是整个八到十二周过程中最重要的一天，因为正是在这一天，你们真正做出选择。

And so once people have that sort of common awareness, shared knowledge of all the problems, day two is, like, literally the most important day in the entire, like, eight to twelve weeks because that's where you actually make the sort of the choice.

所以要顺利推进这个过程，正确地按步骤进行至关重要。

And so the way to flow through it, it's it's actually really important to flow through it correctly.

因此，第一步是生成大量问题，因为大家前一天已经做了大量笔记。

So so the first step is really, like, generating a whole bunch of problems, because people have been taking notes the previous day.

你一开始这一天，就会说，咱们来收集一下大家对那些阻碍我们前进的问题的看法。

You know, you start the day with, like, hey, let's collect everybody's sort of sort of thoughts on what the problems are that are holding us back.

大家会自由地分享自己观察到的阻碍我们发展的各种问题，然后把这些都记录在像Google Sheets这样的工具里。

And so everybody just like, it's a free flowing session, everybody throws out their their sort of observations on what's holding us back, and you you just capture all of that in in a Google Sheets, for example.

甚至在一小时之内，你就会开始看到一些模式浮现出来，比如这些明显阻碍我们的问题其实可以归为几类。

And and over or sort of like even an hour, you start to see these patterns emerging of like, okay, there's these sort of clusters of problems that are sort of really holding us back.

接下来的一步是大家一起对相关的问题进行归类，通常在我的经验中，会形成大约10到15个高度相关的集群。

And and so the next step is you sort of do a joint clustering of sort of related problems, and and you sort of create these potentially, like typically, in my experience, I've seen about 10 to 15 clusters form of of very related problems.

妙就妙在，每一个大的集群里，你都清楚里面包含哪些具体的小问题，因为这些问题是自然生成的。

And the beauty of it is each of this bigger cluster, you actually know what the sub problems are within that cluster because you sort of generated it very organically.

然后你就有了大约10到15个集群。

And then and then you have, let's say, 10 to 15 clusters.

你要记住，因为这最初是一个问题收集的过程，所以每个集群都有一个以问题形式命名的标题。

What you then do is you because remember, because it started as a problem sort of generation exercise, each of the clusters also has a name that is a problem.

所以下一步，就是把这些问题转化为机会的表述方式。

And and so so the next step is to flip it into an opportunity framing.

所以，我来举几个例子。

And and so, for ex let me give you a couple of examples.

比如说，很多人不知道在我们的产品里去哪里找不同的东西，也不清楚该去哪里找到某个功能或某种体验，这方面的问题很多。

So let's say there's a bunch of problems around, you know, people don't really know where to find different things in our product, and they don't really know where to go, where to find sort of, a certain feature or a certain experience, and there's, let's say, a lot of problems in that area.

因此，‘难以找到东西’就变成了一个问题簇，而‘发现’则是对它的机会性表述。

So so difficulty finding things becomes the cluster, the problem cluster, and discovery becomes the opportunity sort of framing of it.

对吧？

Right?

这是一种更积极的表达方式。

And it's sort of the more positive framing of it.

另一个例子是，人们收到了大量他们不喜欢的内容。

And another example could be that people get a lot of content that they don't like.

他们看到很多不感兴趣的东西，于是就不再使用产品了。

You know, they see a lot of stuff that they don't like, and so they disengage with the product.

因此，这个问题的机会性表述就是‘相关性’。

And so the the opportunity framing of that would be relevance.

对吧？

Right?

也就是说，那些真正对我重要的东西。

Like, it's basically, oh, like, stuff that really matters to me.

或者，如果这是一个社交产品，也许人们很难找到朋友，因此感到孤独。

And, or or maybe, like, if it's a social product, then, you know, maybe people are finding it difficult to find friends and they sort of, like, are lonely because of that.

这种机会的表述就是社交连接。

The sort of the the opportunity framing would be social connection.

所以，把所有这些问题集群转化为积极的表述和机会视角，是下一步。

And and so so flipping all of those problem clusters into, you know, positive framing and opportunity framing is the next step.

然后你就处于一个很好的位置了，因为现在你只需要从这十到十五个机会领域中，筛选出 ideally 三个，也许五个，但我建议选三个，因为这样能带来更清晰的聚焦。

And then you're in a great spot because now all you have to do is you have to down select from, like, those 10 to 15, you know, opportunity areas into ideally three, you know, maybe five, but I would recommend three because it creates, like, more clarity and focus.

而筛选的方法，其实是根据四到五个关键维度或标准来对它们进行排序。

And and the way to do that is really sort of ranking them on, I would say, like, four or five, like, key dimensions or criteria.

第一个是预期影响。

And the first is expected impact.

假设你真的去解决这个领域，那么对你们公司、业务或产品来说，它会带来怎样的预期影响？

So let's say you actually tackle that, you know, that area, what is the expected impact to whatever matters to you as a company, as a business, as a product?

第二个维度是影响的确定性。

And the second dimension is certainty of impact.

影响的确定性，本质上是指有多少确凿的证据能证明这是一个真实存在的问题。

Certainty of impact is basically how concrete is the evidence that this is a problem.

有时候你有非常扎实的数据，有时候则更多是零散的个案证据，因此信心的高低很大程度上取决于问题的规模和发生频率。

Sometimes you have, like, really hard data, sometimes you have sort of more anecdotal evidence, and so the confidence really depends on how big the problem sort of sizing and frequency is.

所以，预期影响和影响的确定性。

And so expected impact, certainty of impact.

第三个维度同样非常重要，那就是杠杆的清晰度。

The third one is also very important, which is clarity of levers.

你是否真正有想法知道该如何解决这个问题？

Like, do you actually have an idea of how you would solve it?

如果没有，那就很难真正产生改变，因为你应该清楚地知道：哦，好的，我能想象出这些解决方案确实能带来改变。

If you don't, it's gonna be really difficult to, like, move the needle on it because, you know, you should you should kind of know that, oh, okay, like, I can imagine these solutions could actually move the needle.

我可以实际推出这样一个引导系统，帮助人们找到所需内容。

I can actually launch this sort of, you know, nudge system that can help people find things.

我可以推荐一些人。

I can recommend sort of people.

我可以推荐朋友，让人们对平台上的交友更快找到伙伴。

I can recommend friends so that people can friends quicker on the platform.

所以你应该清楚自己将如何解决这个特定领域的问题。

So you should have a sense of, like, how you would solve that particular space.

那么，关于这些干预手段，是否足够清晰呢？

So so is there clarity on levers?

这就是第三个维度。

That's the sort of the third dimension.

第四个维度极其重要，那就是所有这些干预手段是否对这个特定团队或公司具有独特性和差异化——也就是说，如果其他团队或公司能比这个团队更好地实现它，那它可能就没什么独特性。

And the fourth dimension is super, super important, which is is all the levers unique and differentiated to that particular team or company, which is that, you know, if another sort of team or company could build it better than this particular team or company, then it's probably not that differentiated.

一旦上线，它很可能变得非常通用。

It's probably going to be pretty generic once you launch it.

所以这是一个组合，比如，这里有没有很大的影响？

So it's a combination of sort of like, hey, is there a lot of impact here?

我们对这个问题有多大的把握？

How confident are we of the problem?

我们对解决方案有没有一些想法？

You know, do we have a sense of the solutions?

而且，我们是不是那个具备独特能力和技能、能做出其他团队无法做到的东西的团队或公司？

And basically, like, are we sort of the the team or company that has the capabilities and the skills to, like, uniquely build it where other teams cannot?

一旦你有了这些，有时候你会发现数据不多，这时候用定性评分也没关系，比如高、中、低，或者T恤评分之类的。

And and so so once you have that, you know, and sometimes, like, what happens is you don't have, like, too much data, and so it's okay to have qualitative scores on this, like high, medium, low, you know, t shirt scores, whatever that is.

但关键是，你要作为一个战略工作组一起做这件事，大家会一起讨论评分，争论为什么应该打高分或低分，这个过程中会产生大量的共识和碰撞，这对最终的结果非常健康。

But the key is you're doing it together as a strategy working group, and you're sort of, like, you're debating, like, the scores and you're reasoning why it should be higher versus lower, and like, there's a ton of, like, alignment and, like, collision that's happening when you're doing that, which is, like, very, very healthy for the eventual sort of outcome.

所以一旦你完成了这些，就可以简单地把分数加总一下，最后就能得出前三名。

So once you do that, basically, you can do a simple sort of addition of the scores and and a sort, and what you have is basically the top three.

对吧？

Right?

而剩下的七个或十二个基本上没有聚焦。

And and you have, like, the remaining seven or or 12 that are basically not not sort of focused.

所以这个过程的核心就是找出这些机会领域，并达成共识：我们该如何优先排序它们？为什么？

And and so that's the core of the process is, like, getting that sort of those opportunity areas and getting to a shared sense of, okay, how do we prioritize them and why?

好的。

Okay.

这一切都在一周内完成。

And this is all done in a week.

我知道这背后还有更多内容。

I know there's more to it.

还有几个额外的步骤，能帮助你从你刚才说的内容推进到下一步。

There's a couple more items that help you move from what you just said to, like, the next step.

但我很喜欢这一点，这是整个过程中最核心的部分，而且你能在一周内完成，正是因为之前做了充分的准备工作。

But I love that this is the core of, the biggest element of the process and it you can do you do it in a week, and you're only able to do it in a week because of the work you did ahead of time.

所以，再次强调前期准备步骤的重要性。

So, again, highlighting the importance of that prep step.

所以，为了总结一下你迄今为止分享的内容，然后我们完成策略冲刺的步骤。

So just to share what you've shared so far, and then we'll finish the strategy sprint step.

基本上就是进行成果分享，让每个人对所有信息和输入都有相同的理解。

So it's basically do the share outs so everyone's on the same page about all the information that all the inputs essentially.

列出所有单独的小问题，然后将它们归类为10到15个问题群组。

Enumerate all the problems, like individual small problems, and then cluster them into 10 to 15 problem clusters.

从‘这是问题’转变为‘这是我们拥有的机会’，并根据你提到的这四个属性进行排序——哦，其实我记下来了。

Flip it from here's the problem to here's an opportunity we have, rank them based on basically, there's these four attributes you shared, which oh, actually, I wrote these down.

影响、潜力、对产生影响的信心、杠杆的清晰度，以及这些杠杆是否具有独特性？

So impact, potential, confidence that it will have the impact, clarity of levers, and are they differentiated unique levers?

比如，是的，它们和其他人正在做的事情有什么不同吗？

Like, yeah, are they gonna is there something different from what other folks are doing?

这些就是对这些想法和问题群组进行排序的方法。

So those are ways to rank these ideas and problem clusters.

你最终会得出三个主要的、可能值得投入的重大方向。

You essentially come up with here's three up three big three bets basically potentially should take.

好的。

And okay.

然后我想你就是在这里停下的。

And then I think that's where you stopped.

对吗？

Is that right?

完全正确。

That's totally right

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Cool.

伦尼。

Lenny.

而那些排在顶部的三个，基本上就是我们的战略支柱。

And and those three that are at the top of that pile are basically our strategic pillars.

所以我们已经确定了我们的战略支柱，它们基本上支撑着整个战略。

So we've sort of gotten our strategic pillars, and they basically hold up the strategy.

这就是为什么它们被称为战略支柱。

That's why they're called strategic pillars.

一旦有了战略支柱，我们就会将它们转化为几个‘我们该如何’的问题。

And the idea is once you have the strategic pillars, we basically translate that into a few how might we.

比如说，如果是相关性的问题，我们该如何为特定用户找到最佳内容，又该如何在正确的位置呈现它？

So, you know, how might we do, let's say it's a relevance thing, how might we find the best content for a particular user, how might we surface it in the right place?

有几个‘我们该如何’的问题，这些问题是为下一阶段——设计冲刺——做准备的。

You know, there's a few how might we's, and the how might we's are basically intended to help the next phase of the process, which is the design sprint.

所以你要先生成这些领域，也就是战略支柱，然后生成‘我们该如何’的问题。

So you generate these areas, these strategic pillars, you generate the how might wes.

‘我们该如何’的问题通常都很直接明了。

How might wes are typically pretty straightforward.

一旦确定了战略支柱，为每个支柱生成几个‘我们该如何’的问题大概只需要一小时，每个战略支柱可能两到三个，然后这个阶段就完成了。

Once you have the strategic pillars, it takes probably an hour to generate some how might wes for each of them, maybe two or three for each strategic pillar, and then you're done with that stage.

我想快速强调一下，这种表述方式非常重要。

I just wanna highlight real quick, this phrasing is really important.

我之前和一位产品经理合作时，用的也是完全相同的表述。

I used exactly the same phrasing at a PM that I worked with.

他叫安德鲁·陈，但不是大家熟知的那位投资者安德鲁·陈，他提出了‘富有成效的问题’这个概念，认为这类问题能激发创意和解决方案。

His name was Andrew Chen, but not the Andrew Chen people know about, that's an investor, who had this concept of fertile questions that create ideas and spark ideas and solutions.

而‘我们该如何’这种说法，作为一种提出问题、寻找解决方案的方式，实际上非常有力。

And this phrase, how might we, is actually really powerful as a way to phrase as a way to come up with ideas to solve problems.

比如，我们该如何提升我们应用中的可发现性？

So it's just like, how might we increase discoverability in our app?

我们该如何提升相关性？

How might we improve relevance?

这种表述方式有种神奇的力量，它能让你的思维打开，想到‘我们该如何’？

Like, there's something magical about that phrasing that it opens up your mind to, oh, how might we?

让我们来思考一下，而不是像‘我们如何提升发现率？’这样直接提问。

Let's think about it versus like, how do we improve discovery?

你知道吗，听到这种说法时，你的大脑运作方式会有所不同。

You know, that's like a different your brain works differently hearing this.

所以这种表达方式非常有力。

So that that is a really powerful phrasing.

我只是想强调一下这一点。

Just wanted to highlight that.

是的，这太棒了。

Yeah, that's awesome.

而且设计师们对这个也很熟悉，Lenny，所以它能非常自然地融入设计冲刺中。

It's also something that designers are familiar with, Lenny, so it, like, flows really well into sort of a design sprint.

好的。

Okay.

所以你有了这些‘我们该如何’的提问，你有三个支柱，也许是三到四个或五个‘我们该如何’的提问来解决这些机会或问题，然后接下来会发生什么？

So you have these how might we use so you have three pillars, maybe three or four or five how might we use to solve these opportunities slash problems, and then what happens after that?

没错。

Exactly.

第三天呢，最好能从头开始。

And then the third day is, like, it's good to start fresh.

你知道，团队已经取得了不少进展。

Like, you know, so the team's accomplished a lot.

它就是

Like, it's

所以这些都是前两天完成的？

So this was all the first two days?

这些都是前两天完成的。

This is the first two days.

是的。

Yeah.

哇。

Wow.

好的。

Okay.

两天内完成了这么多工作。

So much done in two days.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

第二天团队特别紧张，所以给他们一点休息时间很好，因为这需要大量的脑力博弈。

And the second day is particularly intense on the team, so it's good to give them a break because it's a lot of, like, really mental sort of wrestling.

所以让团队稍微休息一下。

And so give the team a bit of a break.

然后第三天，当人们稍微恢复了精力，我们就能进入‘制胜愿景’的环节。

And then the third day is when people are a little bit refreshed, we get to winning aspiration.

制胜愿景非常有趣，因为它是一个极具创造性的练习。

So winning aspiration is super interesting because it's a very creative exercise.

你基本上要想象两年后的情景，因为这是小型战略的典型时间范围，也就是十八到二十四个月。

So you basically imagine in two years, because that's the typical time horizon of a smaller strategy, is like eighteen months to twenty four months.

所以想象一下两年后，我会告诉团队：想象两年后有一份报纸，有一位记者报道这项工作，然后刊登出一篇新闻文章。

So imagine in two years, this is what I tell the team, imagine two years there's a newspaper, there's a journalist that covers this work, and there's a newspaper article that comes out.

我希望你们想象一下，所有这些战略支柱的进展，以及那篇新闻文章的标题会是什么样子。

And I want you to imagine the progress on all these strategic pillars and what the headline of that newspaper article looks like.

所以这被称为新闻标题法。

So it's called a newspaper headline approach.

基本上，每个人都会同时独立地创作一个新闻标题。

And and, basically, everybody generates a newspaper headline in in parallel.

这很有趣，因为当人们创作这些标题时，常常会发现一些共同的主题浮现出来。

And and it's interesting because you often see there's these common themes that that sort of form when people generate these headlines.

而标题的强制性要求是，它必须相对简单、使用平实的语言。

And and the the forcing function with the headline is also that it has to be somewhat simple and, like, plain speak.

不能太技术化，你必须用更简单、更贴近普通人的语言表达出来。

It's not, like, too technical, and you have to sort of get to, like, a more sort of simple layperson's language.

你必须抓住关键的益处，也就是这项工作最终对世界产生的影响，这类主题常常会出现。

And and you have to get to, like, the key benefit that, like, ultimately, like, the impact it has on the world, like, you know, those kinds of themes, like, come up often.

然后你稍微把它们全部放进搅拌机里。

And and so then you do a a little bit you put them all into a blender.

把团队的所有标题放进搅拌机，混合在一起，形成所谓的‘制胜愿景’，也就是几年后战略进展到底是什么样子？

You put all of those headlines from the team into a blender, and, like, you sort of mash them together and create, like, the sort of the winning aspiration, which is ultimately, like, what does sort of progress on the strategy look like in a couple of years' time?

这来自于工作组的共同努力。

And and, you know, and and that comes from the working group.

不是由一个人单独写出来的。

It's not like one person writing.

你在一个你参与的项目中，有没有什么具体的制胜愿景例子？

What's an example of an aspiration that you've come up with on a project you worked on, a winning aspiration?

当我还在Meta时，我们为隐私团队做过这个流程。

We did this process for the privacy team, you know, when I was at Meta.

其中一个愿景陈述围绕着我们计划开发的许多功能，但真正的制胜愿景是：我们能否真正提升消费者信任？

And, one of the sort of the aspiration aspiration statements was around really, like, the strategic pillars were around a lot of sort of features that we would build, but the winning aspiration was really, like, hey, could we move, like, consumer trust?

而报纸头条可能是这样的：Facebook通过在这些领域投入，成功提升了消费者信任。

And, you know, and the and the newspaper headline is something like, you know, you know, Facebook has moved the needle on consumer trust by investing in, you know, these areas.

所以这就是你如何创造更大影响力的方式。

And so that's like how you sort of, you know, create sort of the bigger impact.

这是个很好的例子。

That's a great example.

显然，这与亚马逊的PR方法类似。

And, obviously, this is similar to the PR Amazon method.

我喜欢你的方法，就像你前面提到的，你把各种战略工作方法中的优秀理念整合起来，形成了一套系统化、循序渐进的流程，把所有最好的想法融合在一起，正如你所说，这就像一份操作手册。

And what I love about your approach, as you said early on, is you're just pulling together all of these awesome ideas from all these different methods of strategy work to a very methodical step by step process, taking all the best ideas into some and as you described, kind of an operator's playbook for doing this.

我很喜欢这一点。

So I love that.

好的。

Okay.

顺便说一下，当你提到‘搅拌机’的时候，我刚才在想，就是把它们都扔进搅拌机里。

So and when you say blender, by the way, was thinking as you're talking, put them into a blender.

我理解的是，你把每个人的标题都收集起来，然后提炼出一个能涵盖三大支柱全部成功要素的标题。

What I'm inferring is you just take all the everyone's headlines and you come up with one that kind of covers the gamut of all three pillars being successful.

没错，就是这样。

That's exactly right.

更具体地说，我通常的做法是把它们全部放在一张幻灯片上，这几乎就像一个词云，然后你开始看到这些共同的词语，接着将这些词语整合成最终理想目标的关键要素，再尝试据此形成一个简洁有力的表述。

Like more tactically, what I typically do is I put them all on a slide and you start it's almost like a word cloud, and then you start to see these these common words, and then you converge those words as the key elements of the final winning aspiration, and then you try to create, like, a nice statement out of that.

所以，从象征意义上讲，每个人都能在演示文稿上看到自己的陈述，这就是如何达成最终版本的方式。

So, know, it also, like, symbolically, you everybody sees their own statement on on the sort of the deck, and and that's how you get to the final one.

太棒了。

Awesome.

我觉得现在AI可以帮助做这件事，只需把所有的标题想法输入进去，它就能给出一些建议。

And I feel like AI could help with that now just, like, throwing all your headline ideas and it comes up with some suggestions.

好的，明白了。

Okay, cool.

那么，这是冲刺的终点吗？还是冲刺还有更多内容？

So is that the end of the sprint or is there more to the sprint?

冲刺到这里就结束了。

That's it for the sprint.

好的。

Okay.

所以在

And so at

冲刺结束时，你们得到了什么？

the end of the sprint, what do you have?

产出是什么？

What are the outputs?

是的，这在战略上取得了很好的进展，因为我们现在有了三个战略支柱。

Yeah, this is a great progress on strategy because now we have the three strategic pillars.

我们有了与战略支柱相关的‘如何实现’问题。

We have the how might we associated with the strategic pillars.

你们还明确了‘为什么’。

You also have the the why.

你们是如何得出这三个战略支柱的？你们没有关注哪些方面？原因是什么？

Why did you get to those three strategic pillars, and what are you not focused on, and and what are the reasons for it?

而且你还有制胜愿景。

And you also have the winning aspiration.

所以这是很大的进展。

So so it's great progress.

团队做得非常好。

Team's done a great job.

我想我们现在可以进入设计冲刺阶段了。

I think I think now we sort of move on to, you know, the design sprint.

以你的经验，这三项通常能准确成为最终选择的三项吗？还是说在冲刺过程中，你会学到新东西并进行调整？

In your experience, how often are these three the correct three that you end up going with versus you learn something over the course of the rest of the sprint and adjust?

这是个非常好的问题。

It's a very good question.

我们来举个例子，我在Meta时的经历是：通常在战略冲刺阶段，一旦完成，就不会再改变了。

So we'll speak about an example, that I that I had in Meta where, typically, during the strategy sprint, like, you don't change it once you go through the strategy sprint.

但最终，在执行过程中，你会收到很多信号，不得不进行调整。

But eventually, there are sort of lot of signals you get through execution where you sort of have to course correct.

我们会讨论一个非常有趣的例子，说明这种情况是如何改变局面的。

And we'll talk about one very interesting example, of how that sort of changed things.

是的。

Yeah.

太棒了。

Awesome.

好的。

Okay.

所以，到目前为止，你已经制定了你的策略。

So, basically, you've developed your strategy at this point.

而且根据你的经验，直到你进入市场并进行测试之前，你其实并不真正知道会发生什么。

And in your experience, it ends up being like, until you, you know, hit the market and test, you don't really know what's going

。

on.

对。

Correct.

但这里隐含的意思是，根据你多次（我记得你说过五到六次）的经验，这种方法和任何其他方法一样有效。

But there's kind of an implication that the in your experience doing this, I think you said five or six times, it has been correct and as good as doing it any other approach.

我想说的是，这并不是一个严格的实证研究，显然样本量太小了，但我觉得它确实极大地开阔了人们的视野，带来了非常好的共识，并最终取得了不错的结果。

I I would say I would say it it's not a sort of an empirical study, obviously, because of the small sample size, but I would say that it's, like, really opened sort of people's eyes and, like, it's led to, like, really good alignment and eventually, like, good results.

即使在不完全正确的情况下，它也促进了组织内部对‘为什么’和‘如何’开展工作的高度认同。

And even when it has not, it has led to, like, good organizational buy in on sort of, like, why and how we are approaching things.

这让我想起了汤姆·科恩曾上过我们的播客。

This reminds me of Tomer Cohen was on the podcast.

他是领英的首席产品官。

He's CPO of LinkedIn.

他有一个广为人知的说法，大家总是引用：‘我们可能错了，但我们绝不糊涂。’

He has this phrase that everyone always says he says, which is we may be wrong, but we're not confused.

是的。

Yeah.

我很喜欢这一点，它的核心在于：每个人都能完全达成一致——不是从一开始，而是在你启动这个流程之后：这里是所有输入信息，这是逐步推进的步骤，我们一起协作，逐步缩小范围。

And I love that a core part of this is everyone is completely on the same page from the, you know, not from the beginning, but once you start this process of here's all the inputs, here's step by step, we are working together on narrowing down.

所以至少每个人都理解了为什么，这正是最初引发你对这件事兴趣的原因——人人都能理解。

So at least everyone understands the why, which is what sparked your interest in this in the first place, everyone understanding.

我知道最后还有一个完整的推广流程来解决这个问题。

I I know there's a whole rollout at the end too to solve that.

好的。

Okay.

太好了。

Cool.

所以我们有了冲刺阶段。

So we have the sprint.

我们基本上有你将投入的三个支柱。

We have basically the three pillars that you're gonna invest in.

这个标题可能看起来像什么，以及一些解决方案的想法，但接下来我们该如何利用这些内容呢？

This headline of what it might look like if you're to launch and some solution ideas, but how might we use what comes next?

是的。

Yeah.

接下来的阶段是设计冲刺，这个设计冲刺可以由策略工作组中的设计师主导。

So the the next phase is the design sprint, and the design sprint is can be led by the design person who's in the strategy working group.

如果你还记得，团队里有工程、产品、设计和数据人员，那么设计师可以主导这个过程，而产品经理则可以在这个阶段稍微退后一步。

If you remember, there's, like, engineering product design and data, so the design person can lead it, and the PM can sort of take take a bit of a backseat during this process.

设计冲刺的输入是那三个战略支柱以及与之相关的‘我们该如何’问题。

So the input to the design sprint is the sort of the three strategic pillars and the the how might we associated with it.

设计冲刺的目标并不是要得出‘我们应该开发哪些功能’这样的结论。

And the goal of the design sprint is not to sort of come up with, oh, these are the features we should build.

这不是设计冲刺的目的。

That's not the purpose of the design sprint.

设计冲刺的目的是生成大量具象化的概念，让战略活起来，因为你知道，一张图胜过千言万语，即使你的战略文档里已经有了正确的文字，人们可能还是困惑：你到底具体想表达什么？

The design sprint is to generate a lot of illustrative concepts that bring the strategy to life because, you know, a picture is worth a thousand words, and oftentimes, even though you might have the right words in your strategy doc, people might still scratch their head, like, what what do you exactly mean?

你到底要构建什么？

What are you gonna build?

因此，这些具象化的概念能给人们提供一个可以抓住的具象参考。

And so the illustrative concepts really sort of give people something to latch onto.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

我明白了。

I get it.

说白了，这就是你最终会根据策略去构建的东西。

Like, this is what you're gonna build at the end of the day with a strategy.

所以，越发散越好，然后有时候，如果你采用谷歌风投的设计冲刺方法，甚至可以拿一些概念去测试用户，从而稍微打磨一下内容。

And so so the more generative, the better, and then, like, there's there's the ability to, you know, sometimes if you do the Google Ventures design sprint, you can even test some of it with users and, know, get a little bit of sort of sharpening of things.

但这里的目的是不要去做出可以直接开发的功能性设计。

But the goal here is not to, like, build, like, feature ready designs.

更多的是要生成各种概念。

It's it's more to generate concepts.

一旦你有了这些，设计冲刺就完成了——设计冲刺有不同的形式，我就不细说了，你可以依赖你的设计负责人来决定采用哪种合适的方式。

And and so once you have that, basically, the design sprint and there's different flavors of design sprints, which I won't go into, and and sort of, like, you can lean on sort of your design lead to decide what's the the appropriate way.

但输入和输出必须被特别强调。

But the output, the input and the output is what needs to be very emphasized.

输入必须是战略支柱。

The input needs to be the strategic pillars.

输出则需要大量 illustrative 概念，用以阐释每个战略支柱。

The output needs to be a ton of sort of illustrative concepts to explain each strategic pillar.

你可以几乎设置一个部分，分别讨论每个战略支柱，并在该部分中插入这些概念，这就是核心思路。

So you could almost have a section where you talk about each strategic pillar and insert those concepts in that section, and and that's the idea.

接下来我们会通过几个例子，让这一点变得非常具体。

And we're gonna go through a couple examples to make this very real.

你提到了设计冲刺方法，我们曾经邀请过该方法的作者做客播客。

And you mentioned the design sprint method, which we had the authors on the podcast.

但他们实际上并没有采用设计冲刺方法。

They actually didn't go through the design sprint method.

他们还写过另一本关于生产力的书，叫《Make Time》。

They have another book called Make Time that's about productivity.

我们还邀请过他们在谷歌风投的同事，这位同事设计了‘靶心冲刺’，也是一种很有趣的冲刺方式。

We also had the their colleague from Google Ventures that designed a bullseye sprint, which is also an interesting sprint.

我不知道。

I don't know.

这是一个新方法，能帮你确定你的理想客户画像（ICP），明确产品聚焦的对象，以及如何提升产品表现。

It's a new thing that helps you figure out your ICP and who to focus your product on and how that performs your product.

有意思。

Interesting.

所以这是另一种你可以用来简化流程的冲刺方式。

So it's another type of sprint you could make it easier.

好的。

Okay.

所以输入是：我们打算投资的三件事，比如探索、相关性、隐私。

So the input is here's the three things we're gonna invest in, say, discovery, relevance, privacy.

输出则是：一些概念性的想法，帮助大家打开思路，想象这些方向可能的样子。

Here's and the output is here's, like, concepts of what this could look like to get people's minds going.

目前这些是不是就只是一堆放在演示文稿里的原型图？

Is there any, like is it just like a bunch of mocks basically in a deck at this point?

没错。

That's correct.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

太好了。

Cool.

好的。

Okay.

太棒了。

Amazing.

所以这是一周。

So that's a week.

这是另一个冲刺。

That's another sprint.

项目经理或许可以稍微休息一下，没错。

The PM could maybe take a little bit of a break Exactly.

由设计师来主导。

And designers take the lead.

没错。

Exactly.

工程师们更像是提供输入和想法的合作伙伴，我想是这样的。

And the engineers are kinda inputs and, you know, thought partners in in this, I imagine.

他们是可选的。

They're optional.

是的。

Yeah.

可选的。

Optional.

但确实如此。

But yeah.

理想情况下，他们会参与进来，因为你希望把所有最好的想法都纳入其中。

Ideally, they're involved because you want you want you want all the best ideas in there.

是的。

Yep.

是的。

Yep.

好的，不错。

Okay, cool.

接下来是什么？

What comes next?

下一步是撰写文档。

And then the next step is the document writing.

这通常是产品经理独自完成的一项工作。

And this is sort of a solo activity that the PM should take on.

但好消息是，产品经理并不是从零开始。

But the great news is the PM is not starting from scratch.

有太多精彩的内容可以写了。

There's so much great stuff to write.

比如，如果你还记得，有大量的用户洞察、行为洞察和竞争分析。

Like, if you remember, there's a ton of user insights, a ton of behavioral insights, a ton of competitive analysis.

还有三大战略支柱、‘如何轻松实现’和制胜愿景。

There's the three strategic pillars, how might we ease, winning aspiration.

还有很多示范性概念。

There's a whole bunch of illustrative concepts.

所以，通常来说，产品负责人会遇到创作瓶颈，但这里完全解决了这个问题，因为你有大量的优质素材。

So, you know, oftentimes, like, product leads have this sort of creator's block, you know, that is solved here completely because you have a ton of great material.

但我得告诉你，这并不会让工作变得更轻松。

But I have to tell you, it doesn't make the job easier.

你仍然需要把一个好故事串联起来。

You still have to there's a sort of, like, you still have to weave together a good story.

这就是为什么我认为这需要一到两周的时间，关键在于整合、连接和编辑。

That's why I think, like, it takes a week or two, and, and I think it's really about combining, connecting, and editing.

而在这一点上，要从所有这些组成部分中讲出一个连贯的故事。

And and at this point and, like, telling sort of a cohesive story from all those components.

但我认为这些基础非常扎实且稳固。

But I think the building blocks are really solid and defensive.

你的战略文档中有没有什么模板或你常包含的章节？

Is there a template or kind of sections you like to include in your strategy doc?

如果有人坐下来试图写这份文档，你希望看到哪些作为标题？

If someone sits down and is trying to write this out, what do you want to see there as kinda headings?

我认为你可以把这些基础要素作为模板的一个小小指引。

I think you could almost state the building blocks as, like, a little bit of a a sort of a steer for the template.

所以，你知道，你先从更广泛的背景开始，比如谈谈领导者对这项整体工作的期望，然后进入关键洞察与分析，包括用户洞察、行为洞察和竞争分析。

So, you know, you start with sort of the broader context, like, you know, where you you talk about what the leaders kind of want from this sort of overall effort, And then you get into, you know, key insights and analysis where you have sort of user insights, behavioral insights, competitive analysis.

接着你进入战略支柱部分，并加以说明。

And then you get into the sort of the strategic pillars, and and you explain them.

你还要解释为什么。

You also explain why.

在附录中包含你在策略冲刺第二天生成的完整表格。

And in the appendix, include the full table that you generated on day two of your strategy sprint.

在附录中包含完整的表格，包括评估标准。

You include the full table in the appendix, including the criteria.

这将非常重要，因为大多数人会问：你们为什么选这些？

That's gonna be really important because most people are gonna ask, like, why did you pick these?

而这基本上就是所谓的可辩护性。

And and that's, like, basically the sort of the defensibility.

然后你还会有一个非常大胆的制胜愿景。

And and then you have the winning aspiration that's, like, very bold.

这可以说是整个演示文稿的核心部分。

It's, like, you know, a big part of the the heart of the deck.

你还将示例性概念融入每一个战略支柱中，使内容流畅自然。

And and you sort of embed the illustrative concepts into the actual, like, each of the strategic pillars so that it flows well.

最后，你以一些对齐性问题收尾，比如：这些感觉对吗？

And then finally, you end with, you know, some kind of alignment questions, like, hey, do these feel right?

你知道吗，我们有没有遗漏什么？

Like, you know, are there things we are missing?

这样就能为后续会议建立一个对齐的框架。

So that it it creates that framework for alignment in the in the subsequent meetings.

我很期待与OneSchema的创始人克里斯蒂娜·吉尔伯特聊天，她是我们长期的播客赞助商之一。

I'm excited to chat with Christina Gilbert, the founder of OneSchema, one of our longtime podcast sponsors.

嗨，克里斯蒂娜。

Hi, Christina.

好的。

Yes.

谢谢你邀请我参加，伦尼。

Thank you for having me on, Lenny.

OneSchema最近有什么新进展？

What is the latest with OneSchema?

我知道你现在已与一些我最喜欢的公司合作，比如Ramp、Vanta、Scale和Watershed。

I know you now work with some of my favorite companies like Ramp, Vanta, Scale, and Watershed.

我听说你们刚刚推出了一款新产品，帮助产品团队从像ERP这样特别棘手的系统中导入CSV文件？

I heard that you just launched a new product to help product teams import CSVs from especially tricky systems like ERPs?

是的。

Yes.

我们刚刚推出了OneSchema文件流功能，只要你能将CSV导出到SFDP文件夹，就能在十五分钟内与任何系统建立集成。

So we just launched OneSchema file feeds, which allows you to build an integration with any system in fifteen minutes as long as you can export a CSV to an SFDP folder.

我们经常看到客户被各种临时方案和变通方法困住，而我们合作的产品团队不再需要因为系统难以集成而拒绝潜在客户。

We see our customers all the time getting stuck with hacks and workarounds, and the product teams that we work with don't have to turn down prospects because their systems are too hard to integrate with.

我们让客户无需动用工程团队，就能提供成千上万种集成方案。

We allow our customers to offer thousands of integrations without involving their engineering team at all.

我可以告诉你，如果我的团队必须自己构建这样的集成，能把我从这个路线图上解脱出来，转而使用OneSchema这样的工具，不仅不用自己开发，还能永久免于维护，那该有多好。

I can tell you that if my team had to build integrations like this, how nice would it be to be able to take this off my road map and instead use something like OneSchema and not just to build it, but also to maintain it forever?

当然，Lenny。

Absolutely, Lenny.

我们听过太多这样的噩梦故事了，仅仅因为几条错误数据，系统就会中断好几天。

We've heard so many horror stories of multi day outages from even just a handful of bad records.

我们专注于集成的可靠性，帮助团队消除集成过程中出现的所有干扰。

We are laser focused on integration reliability to help teams end all of those distractions that come up with integrations.

我们内置了验证层，阻止任何不良数据进入您的系统，并且OneSchema会立即通知您的团队任何看似错误的数据。

We have a built in validation layer that stops any bad data from entering your system, and OneSchema will notify your team immediately of any data that looks incorrect.

我知道导入错误的数据会给您的客户带来各种麻烦，并迅速失去他们的信任。

I know that importing incorrect data can cause all kinds of pain for your customers and quickly lose their trust.

克里斯蒂娜，感谢你加入我们。

Christina, thank you for joining us.

如果你想了解更多，请访问 oneschema.co。

And if you wanna learn more, head on over to oneschema.co.

网址是 oneschema.co。

That's oneschema.co.

我打开了《玩胜》这本书，我知道你也从中汲取灵感。

I pulled up playing to win, which I know you also pull ideas from.

实际上，罗杰·马丁曾做客我们的播客，谈论过这些内容。

And, actually, Roger Martin was on the podcast talking about this stuff.

是的。

And Yeah.

当我听你描述如何拆分你的战略文档时，我想到了一种方式：他提出了五个问题。

One way I think about as you're describing way to break up your strategy doc is he has these five questions that you ask.

第一个问题是：你的制胜愿景是什么？

The first is actually what's your winning aspiration?

我很喜欢你引入了这一点。

So I love that you're pulling that in.

这可以作为你文档的一种结构方式。

This is like one approach your doc could be.

你的制胜愿景是什么？

What's your winning aspiration?

你将在哪里竞争？

Where will you play?

也就是说，你打算进入哪个市场？

Like, what market are you going after?

你将如何获胜？

How will you win?

为了获胜，必须具备哪些能力，以及需要哪些管理体系？

What capabilities must be in place for you to win, and then what management systems are required.

我们会提供这个框架的链接，以便人们在制定战略时可以参考。

We'll link to this framework just in case people want that as a crutch in their thinking strategy.

但有没有什么资料可以推荐给大家，帮助他们理解你对这份文档的思考方式？

But is there anything that we could link folks to that describe how you like to think about this doc?

如果没有，如果你能制作一个供大家参考的模板就太好了。

And if not, it'd be cool if you make a template that folks could borrow.

我很乐意分享这个流程的流程图以及模板。

I'm happy to share the sort of the flowchart of the process and the, you know, the template as well.

太棒了。

Awesome.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

那么，撰写这份文档需要多长时间？

So this is how long of a process does writing of the document?

大概一到两周，而且我认为主要是个人工作。

It's about one to two weeks, and and I think it's mostly solo work.

希望最终能形成一个非常精炼的演讲内容，这就是我们之前推出的方式。

And, hopefully, by the end of it, there's a very tight talk, and, you know, that's that's what we used to roll out.

所谓个人工作，我猜你在整理过程中还是会与团队沟通获取反馈，还是说你只是一个人待在房间里埋头苦干？

And by solo work, I imagine you're looping in this working team to get their feedback as you're pulling it together, or is it just you sit there in a room and then

我会尽量减少打扰他们，因为他们已经为这个过程贡献了很多。

I would minimize sort of pulling them in because they've all contributed so much to the process already.

所以我认为，最终当你有了初稿后，还是应该分享给他们看看。

So it's I would say that at the end of it, obviously, you know, once you have sort of a draft, it's good to share with them.

但我不建议在这个阶段让他们反复参与修改，因为他们已经付出了很多。

But I wouldn't, like, have them, have their cycles too much at this point because they've they've sort of given a lot already.

我明白了。

I see.

好的。

Okay.

那这份文件大概会有多少页呢？

And, like, how many pages do you see the stock being roughly?

有没有什么比较合理的参考标准？

What's, like, a good heuristic?

对。

Yeah.

整个过程不会太长。

It's not not too long.

大概也就三四页内容的样子。

I would say probably, like, three three or four sort of, pages.

还有一个附录，里面包含了很多我之前提到的补充表格，还有很多额外的说明性概念。

And then an appendix has a lot of additional, like, table I spoke about and a lot of additional, maybe, illustrative concepts.

也许你只能在正文中使用几个说明性的概念，这样其他概念就可以放在别处。

Maybe you can only use a few illustrative concepts in the main section so that there could be others there.

我认为，通常领导者们都会希望说，好吧。

I think usually there's sort of a desire to from from leaders to sort of say, like, okay.

我们接下来要构建什么？

Like, what are we building next?

重要的是不要把路线图包含在战略文档中，因为战略文档应当与路线图分开，作为路线图的补充。

And and it's important not to include, like, a road map as part of a strategy doc because a strategy doc is meant to be separate from the road maps, meant to be a companion to your road map.

尽管可能有人希望，有时你可以在附录中加入一个说明性的路线图，但我还是会尽量保持简洁，专注于战略本身。

And and even though there's interest, maybe sometimes you can include, like, a illustrative road map in the appendix, but I would try to keep it clean and try to keep it focused on just the strategy.

所以到目前为止，你基本上已经制定了你的战略。

So at this point, you basically developed your strategy.

下一步，我想你称之为实施，就是开始真正推行它。

The next step, I think you call rollout where you just start actually rolling this out.

那我们来谈谈这个。

So let's talk about that.

但要注意，这已经是好几周之后了？

But it's important to note, like, many weeks in?

这可是几周的工作成果，你已经为公司或产品制定了战略。

This is, like, weeks of work and you've got a strategy for your company slash product.

说得完全正确。

That's exactly right.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我认为你可能正处于这个过程的最后两到三周，而非常重要的最后一步就是推行。

So so I think you're probably in the last, like, two two to three weeks of the process, and pretty important sort of final step is the rollout.

我会先从我所谓的‘把关者’开始。

And and I would start with, you know, what I call gatekeepers.

这些人是你必须一对一获得他们认同和批准的关键人物，之后才能推进。

And these are people who are, like, absolutely, like, you have to get their one on one sort of alignment and blessing on this before it moves forward.

人数可能不会太多，大概两到三个人吧。

And it's probably not too many, like, probably, like, two or three people.

所以我会先和他们预沟通，达成一致。

So I would sort of preflight it with them and, and get the alignment.

所以这些是一对一的会议，和这些……

So these are one on one meetings with these So

这些是一对一的会议。

these are one on one meetings.

没错。

Exactly.

没错。

Exactly.

然后还有一群我称之为关键利益相关者的人，他们是受此影响的人，比如各个职能负责人等等。

And then, and then there's a larger group of sort of what I call key stakeholders, people who are impacted by it, you know, different functional leaders, etcetera.

这部分可以通过异步方式或小组评审来完成。

And that can be done either async or through sort of a group review.

接着还可能有一系列巡回宣讲活动，你知道的，实现方式有很多种，但我觉得最有效的是巡回宣讲，每次会议大约有八到十个人，这样大家会更愿意提问。

And then and then there's probably a rolling sort of list of team roadshows, you know, I sort of there's different ways to do this, but the one that I feel is most effective is the roadshow where you have, like, about eight eight to 10 people in each sort of session, so people feel more comfortable to ask questions.

而且这更像是一种对话式的交流。

And and it's more sort of, like, conversational.

所以这个阶段的目的是要达成共识，而不是过多地寻求反馈。

And and so the the purpose of the stage is to land it, is not to, like, seek too much feedback.

所以这需要一种微妙的平衡。

So it's a delicate balance.

同时，你也不希望显得太固执，你知道的，就是太不灵活。

At the same time, you don't wanna appear, like, you know, just sort of, you know, being too inflexible.

所以这是一种非常微妙的平衡。

So it's a very delicate balance.

当人们提问时，你可以进行澄清，并在文档中补充说明，但我不会改变三个战略支柱中最核心的内容，我不会改那个。

Like, you when people ask questions, you can clarify it and and you can add clarifications to the doc, but I wouldn't change, like the most important thing in three strategic pillars, like, I wouldn't change that.

我会用这个框架来捍卫它。

I would sort of defend it using sort of the framework.

但如果有人提出了很好的论据，说明导致你排名的评判标准有问题，那重新考虑是可以的。

But if people are like, there's really good arguments about the criteria that led to, you know, your ranking, then it's okay to reconsider.

在我大约五到六次尝试中，还没见过这种情况发生，但理论上是可能的。

I've not seen it happen, in my sort of, like, five to six attempts, but it's possible theoretically possible.

是的。

Yeah.

这种做法的核心听起来是你已经做了大量的前期工作，没错。

And, like, the core of this approach, it sounds like, is you've done a lot of the prework Exactly.

你最终定位在一个大致正确的位置。

Where you land in a generally correct place.

好的。

Okay.

所以这就是推广实施的过程。

So this is the rollout.

所以当我听你这么说时，想象你是一个团队的产品经理。

So what I'm thinking as you talk say you're, like, a PM on a team.

假设你正在负责隐私相关的工作。

Say you're working on privacy.

这就像是一个IC，你是一个负责战略的ICPM。

It's like an IC you're an ICPM working on strategy.

你会怎么考虑让你的经理也参与进来呢？

How do you think about including, say, your manager?

因为在这个过程中，你什么时候会开始说，嘿。

Because through this process, like, when do you start to, like, hey.

这是我们计划的内容。

Here's what we're planning.

这是我们正在考虑的方向。

Here's what we're thinking.

确保他们认同，因为我能想象到，团队在一边埋头苦干，不停地干。

Making sure they're on board because I could see this working team off to the side working, working, working.

好的。

Okay.

我们准备好了，可以推出了。

We're ready to roll it out.

很多时候，其实并没有。

Oftentimes, there's like, no.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

等等。

Wait.

等等。

Wait.

等等。

Wait.

公司里还有其他很多事情在发生。

There's all this other stuff happening at the company.

我们没有资源。

We don't have resources.

比如，你该怎么把他们纳入进来，又该如何思考这类利益相关者呢？

Like, where do you where do you loop them and how do you think about that kind of stakeholder?

那些更敏锐、了解组织动态的产品经理，大概会在整个过程中让经理保持同步。

The sort of the more, you know, attuned PMs who understand organizational dynamics probably keep the manager pretty, like, in sync through through the process.

我认为，经理肯定会成为你访谈的对象之一，作为领导层访谈的一部分。

I think definitely the manager becomes a person who you interview, as you part of sort of the leadership interviews.

所以你能大致了解经理对这项工作有什么期待。

So you kind of know what the manager is looking for from the effort.

到了策略冲刺第二天的战略支柱阶段，你可能想快速跟经理预演一下，说：嘿，看看目前的进展如何。

And then once you sort of get to the strategic, pillars on day two of the strategy sprint, you probably wanna just, like, quickly preflight it with the manager and say, hey, look, this is how it's trending.

还有，这些可能是我们不会去做的事项，看看有没有什么问题。

And, you know, this is probably these are the things we are probably not gonna do and, like, any any sort of issues with that.

最终，你其实希望经理能在一些更重要的会议上支持你，也就是说，你要主动寻求他们的帮助。

And then, eventually, you actually want your manager to sort of support you in some of these bigger meetings so, you know, you sort of enlist, their help.

所以我觉得这大概取决于个人风格，但我建议在整个过程中保持与他们的高度一致。

So so I would say that it's probably, like, each individual style, but I would keep them pretty, like, aligned through the process.

但你不需要太繁琐。

But you don't have to be, like, too heavyweight.

只需保持非常轻量。

Just be super lightweight.

是的。

Yeah.

很好。

Great.

我觉得很有道理。

Makes a lot of sense to me.

我们不可能用这个框架解决所有人的问题。

There's, a we're not gonna solve everyone's problems with this one framework.

在思考这个问题时，不妨简单聊聊资源分配。

Maybe just quickly touch on resourcing as you think about this.

比如，策略的一部分还包括我们需要这些资源。

Like, a part of a strategy includes, like, oh, we also need these resources.

我想知道有什么建议可以将这一点纳入其中，然后我想看看你们实际实施这个方法的一些例子。

I guess just any thoughts on how to include that, and then I wanna get into some examples of how you've actually implemented this.

所以我并不建议在战略阶段就考虑资源问题，因为你所说的是这些是关注的重点，而资源分配的问题在制定路线图时才会更相关。

So I actually don't recommend thinking about resources in the strategy phase because what you're saying is these are the areas of focus, and the resourcing question becomes more relevant from a road mapping standpoint.

因为那时你会说，好吧。

Because then you say, okay.

我们有多少比例的工程资源要分配给战略支柱A、B和C？

What percentage of our engineering do we put on strategic pillar a versus b versus c?

以及，具体要开发哪些东西？

And, you know, and what are the specific things we build?

所以这变成了一个路线图问题，而不是战略问题。

So it becomes a road mapping question as opposed to a strategy question.

因此，到最后，实施的一部分就是制定实际的路线图。

And so by the end of this, the rollout the part of the rollout is developing the actual road map.

我们不会深入探讨这一点。

We're not gonna get deep into that.

这可以是我们解决所有产品经理问题、教授他们整个流程步骤的第二部分，但我们就到这里为止。

That could be part two of our solve every PM's problems, teach them all the all the steps of the process, but we're gonna cut it off at here.

你是否有正在开始推行的战略？

Do you have a strategy that is starting to be rolled out?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

太好了。

Cool.

我们来看几个例子。

Let's go through a couple examples.

我们实际上已经实施了这个方法，让这一切更真实一些。

We actually implemented this to make this even more real.

我知道你有几家公司在考虑分享你所参与的战略。

I know there's a couple companies you're thinking about sharing the strategies you've worked on.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

我觉得有三个快速要点

I think I think there's just a sort of three quick notes

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

为了结束这个流程，我会分享两个例子，Lenny。

To close off this this process, and and I'll share the two two examples, Lenny.

所以我认为这个流程有效的第一个原因是，它内置了大量的一致性，包括团队内部和领导层之间的共识。

So so the the the the reason I think this process works is the first is because there is a ton of alignment built in, you know, sort of within team alignment and leadership alignment built in.

它不会让人觉得：‘哦，这个产品经理自己写了一份策略文档，但我并不认同其中大部分内容。’

And it's not seen as, Oh, this PM went off and wrote this, you know, strategy doc, and I don't agree with most of it.

而且这部分实际上回归到了人类心理学：来自你自己的东西，会让人感觉更熟悉、更容易接受。

And and and part of this is actually very sort of it goes back to human psychology of just, like, something that comes from you feels a lot more familiar and easy to accept.