成为更好的沟通者：提升清晰度、影响力和效果的实用框架 | 高伟（教练、企业家、顾问）

是的。

Yeah.

那在会议中，我可能还想分享些什么呢？

And what what might I wanna share in the meeting too?

你知道的，特别是对那些更内向的人来说。

You know, especially for more introverted folks.

有时候你需要提前决定好自己要发言，并确保传达某个特定的观点。

Sometimes you need to decide beforehand that you wanna speak, and you wanna make sure you get a certain point across.

所以，提前做出这样的决定会产生巨大的影响。

So even deciding that beforehand makes a huge difference.

对。

Yeah.

我发现这非常有效，就在进入会议前的五分钟就行。

I found this extremely powerful, just, like, five minutes before you get into a meeting.

而且这也可以在当天早些时候完成。

And it could happen earlier in the day.

对吧？

Right?

不一定非得在会议开始前才做。

It doesn't have to happen right before the meeting.

最糟的情况，也就是在会议开始前做。

Or worst case, it's right before the meeting.

好吧，我从这次会议中想得到什么？

Just, okay, what do I wanna get out of this?

我来这儿的目的是什么？

What am I here?

我想说什么？

What do I wanna say?

只是给你的大脑一点时间做准备。

And just, like, giving your brain a little bit of time to prepare.

非常有效。

Super powerful.

在写作中，有什么技巧可以分享，帮助别人更简洁一些吗？

In writing, any is there, like, any tactics you can share for someone to be a little more concise?

我认为主要的技巧是提醒自己要简洁。

I think the main tactic is to remind yourself to be concise.

当我这么做的时候，通常能删掉至少20%的内容，让句子更紧凑。

And usually when I do that, I end up trimming 20% at least of what I wrote, tightening up some sentences.

我还会问自己：我有没有给我要表达的内容增加认知负担？

I I also ask myself, how might I be adding cognitive load to whatever it is that I'm saying?

所以，有没有更简洁、更清晰、更干净的方式，来提出我的问题、呈现信息或做出建议？

So, you know, is there a tighter, clearer, cleaner way that I can ask what I'm asking or present the information I'm presenting or the you know, make the recommendation that I'm making.

通常，只要你问自己这个问题，你的大脑就会自动想出更好的表达方式。

And usually, if you even ask yourself that, your brain automatically comes up with stuff.

你会以不同的视角看待自己写的东西。

You just see whatever you wrote differently.

然后你会说：天啊。

And you're like, oh, shit.

我应该删掉这一整段，因为这属于次要内容。

I should trim this entire paragraph because, like, that's secondary.

你知道的。

You know?

也许你的主要信息放在Slack里，然后在回复线程中补充一些次要内容。

And maybe you have your primary message in Slack and then within the thread, add, you know, some of the secondary stuff.

对吧？

Right?

我发现，我们大多数人需要做的，就是提醒自己保持简洁。

So I find that most of us, it's it's reminding yourself to be concise.

一旦你意识到这一点，你的大脑自然就会发现可以精简的地方。

And once you think of it, your brain naturally will see places where you can trip.

在你分享之前，还有一个建议你没说，但我来补充一下：至少通读一遍你写的内容。

There's a layer of advice under this that you're not saying that I'm gonna say, which is actually look at the thing you wrote at least once before you share it.

因为我以前在这方面真的很差。

Because I used to be really bad at this.

我就觉得，好吧。

I just like, okay.

没时间。

Don't have time.

我们写了这份文档。

We wrote this doc.

发出去。

Send it.

获取反馈。

Get feedback.

好的。

Alright.

来发这封邮件。

To send this email.

我没时间去读这封邮件，但我发现强迫自己看一下就能解决很多问题。

I don't time to, like, read this email, and I find just forcing yourself to look at it solves so much of this.

哦，是的。

Oh, yes.

对。

Yes.

当然。

Definitely.

我之前在做那件事之前是这么假设的，但你说得对。

I was I was assuming before doing that, but you're right.

你知道的，有些人可能不会参与。

The, you know, some people might not be in.

对。

Yes.

先读一遍自己的信息非常重要。

Definitely reading your own message first is huge.

而且，是的，我发现即使只是这么做，也常常能发现很多容易改进的地方。

And, yeah, I find that even even doing that, you can often spot a lot of a lot of low hanging fruit.

对。

Right.

比如，你会发现拼写和语法错误，会想，哦，这个词根本不需要。

Like, you'll find the typos and grammar issues, you'll be, oh, I don't need this word.

说到这个，我想分享两本书。

Along those lines, let me share two books.

人们总是问我，你是怎么学会写作的？

People always ask me, how did you how did you learn to write?

我会说，我不是作家。

I'm like, I'm not a writer.

我不知道自己在做什么。

I don't know what I'm doing.

但有两本书极大地帮助我更有效地写作，其中一本专门教你如何写得更简洁，叫《写作大全》。

But two books really helped me write more effectively, and one is specifically to help you write more concisely called On Writing Well.

我不知道你有没有读过这本书。

I don't know if you've read that.

嗯。

Mhmm.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

基本上，每一章都在讲你能删掉什么，还能再删更多，看看还能删掉哪些内容，把这些东西都删掉。

And it's basically, like, chapter after chapter of here's what you can cut, and you can cut more, and look what more you can cut, and cut this stuff.

他还展示了学生在他课堂上写的作文截图，说：你看，这些你删掉的词，意思一点都没变。

And he has, like, images of like, screenshots of essays that students have written in his class, and he's like, look at all those words you cut and nothing is is changed.

信息完全一样，甚至删掉40%的词后，表达反而更好了。

It's exactly the same message and even is better with, like, 40% of the words cut.

这是索尔·斯坦写的吗？还是其他作者？

Is this by Sol Stein or or another author?

我没带在身边。

I am I don't have it here.

它在我书架上的某个地方，我们找一下。

It's somewhere in my bookshelf, so we'll look it up.

是的。

Yeah.

有一本索尔·斯坦写的写作书，我特别喜欢。

There's there's there's a writing book by Sol Stein that I absolutely love.

我觉得它可能叫《论写作》（On Writing Well），但我也觉得可能有好几本书都叫《论写作》。

And I feel like it might be called On Writing Well, but they're also I could see there being multiple books called On Writing Well.

我觉得史蒂芬·金也写过一本叫《写作好》的书。

There's also Writing Well, I think, by Stephen King.

那是另一本很多人喜欢的书。

That's like another one that people love.

但真正让我最爱的是《论写作》。

But they're On Writing Well is the one I really love.

嗯。

Mhmm.

因为它非常实用。

Because it's very, like, tactical.

回到你之前提到的关于重读自己写的东西这一点。

Going back to something that that you were saying earlier with rereading what you wrote.

我认为一份写得差的备忘录造成的负面影响远比大多数人想象的要大。

I think the blast radius of a poorly written memo is way bigger than most people think.

所以，如果你在有15个人的Slack频道里随便发一条消息，内容又混乱，还漏掉了应该包含的信息，那就会引发大量来回沟通。

So if you're if you're just shooting off a message in a Slack channel with 15 other people and it's confusing and you didn't include information you should have included, there's gonna be a bunch of back and forth.

这15个人都会读这条消息，心里想：好吧。

Like, all 15 of these people are reading this being like, okay.

我该怎么处理这个？

What do I do with this?

但如果你再花点时间检查一下，这15个人就能立刻行动起来。

Whereas if you just take another look at it, those 15 people would be off to the races.

他们会读完你的消息，然后清楚地知道接下来该做什么，自己的职责是什么，或者你希望他们提供什么。

Like, they would have read your message and then known exactly what to do next or what their part was or what you were looking for from them.

所以我也经常思考这一点。

So I think about that a lot too.

这不仅仅是我在写完之后发出去那么简单。

It's not just, you know, me writing this and sending it off.

而是有哪些人会接触到这条信息，会参考和使用它？

It's who are all the who are all the people who are gonna come in contact with this message, who are going to refer to it and use it?

如果我多花三十秒确保它清晰明了，能为他们的工作消除多少障碍？

And if I just take thirty more seconds to make sure that it's clean, how much can I unblock from their work?

这个观点太棒了。

That's such a good point.

我喜欢这一点。

I like that.

我非常喜欢‘影响范围’这个说法。

I love that term blast radius.

这个观点太棒了。

It's such a good point.

就像写得低效、不简洁会带来巨大的负面影响一样，如果你写得啰嗦，后果也很严重。

Just like there's so much negative leverage in writing inefficiently and in and concisely if you spend, like, inconcisely.

我不确定。

I don't know.

这个词就在那儿。

The word is there.

但如果你只是多花三分钟，让内容更清晰一点，这种影响和杠杆效应真的非常大，这是个很好的观点。

But, if you just spend, like, three minutes spending a little more time making it more clear, just, like, the impact and leverage that has, that's such a good point.

我查了那些书。

I looked up the books.

真有趣。

It's so funny.

好吧。

Okay.

有一本叫《写作的艺术》的书，作者是威廉·津瑟。

So there's On Writing Well by William Zissner.

索尔·斯坦的《写作之道》是你刚才提到的那本书。

There's Stein on Writing by Sol Stein, which is what you said you were talking about.

斯蒂芬·金也写了一本叫《写作》的书。

And then Stephen King has a book called On Writing.

天哪。

Oh my god.

是的。

Yeah.

写得一样。

Wrote that same.

标题相同。

Common title.

不是

Not

对搜索引擎优化不太理想。

not ideal for SEO.

但我最爱的是威廉·津瑟的《写作的艺术》。

But On Writing Well is the one that I love by William Zissner.

还有一本叫《短句系列》的书。

There's also one called a series of sing of short sentences.

如果你还没看过这本，它也非常好。

If you haven't seen that one, it's a really good rate rate too.

它讲的就是如何写短句，以及保持句子简短的力量，这正是我所欠缺的。

It's just like how to write short sentences and just the the power of just keeping sentences short, which I struggle with.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢这一点。

I like that.

好的。

Okay.

我们回到议程吧。

Back to our agenda.

还有另一个框架或技巧，我听说你推荐过。

There's another framework slash tactic that I've heard you recommend.

它叫作‘路标法’。

It's called signposting.

什么是路标法？

What is signposting?

路标法是指在写作中使用某些词语、短语、格式和整体结构，帮助引导读者并预示文章后续内容。

Signposting is using certain words, phrases, formatting, and an overall structure in your writing that helps guide your reader and signals what is coming in the rest of the post.

如果你写的是长篇备忘录，这种方法尤其有用。

So this is especially helpful if you have a long memo.

它能明确文章的走向，以及各个段落的主题内容。

It adds structure to where are we going and, what certain sections of paragraphs are about.

我最喜欢的路标词包括：‘例如’表示你要举例子，‘因为’表示你要阐述背后的逻辑和理由，‘下一步’也是一个非常好的词。

So some of my favorite signposting words are, for example, shows that you're about to show an example, Because shows that you're about to share your logic and rationale behind something as a next step is a great one.

人们的眼睛往往会自动聚焦在‘下一步’上。

People's eyes kind of automatically zoom to as a next step.

甚至从第一、第二、第三开始，用这些词来开启段落。

Even first, second, third, kicking off a paragraph with that.

你不需要依赖加粗、斜体、下划线等复杂的富文本格式。

You're not needing to rely on rich text formatting with bolding, italics, underlines, and all that craziness.

如果你在句子开头使用引导词，通常就能表明接下来这段话要讲什么。

If you kick off sentences with signposting words, you can often signal, here's what I'm about to talk about in this paragraph.

这些词简直就是提升清晰度的强力词汇。

These are, like, power words for clarity.

就像有一整套所谓的强力词汇，比如‘免费’和

Like, there's this whole concept of power words like free and

是的。

Yeah.

一份礼物。

A gift.

你可能

You probably

礼物。

Gift.

是的。

Yeah.

在文案写作中，这些词基本上是帮助你的大脑理解结构并聚焦到你想关注的内容的关键词。

For, like, copywriting, and I'll these are basically power words for helping your brain see the structure and get to the thing you wanna pay attention to.

所以我会再读一遍它们。

So I'll read back them.

你刚才提到的词，比如‘作为下一步’，然后是‘第一、第二、第三’。

Words you just used, for example, because as a next step, and then first, second, third.

对。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以在写作和口语中都使用引导性词语。

You can use signposting in writing and verbally too.

所以如果你在做产品演示，你可能会说，最需要注意的部分是空白，或者我们最惊讶的部分是空白，或者你知道的，客户最关注的部分等等。

So if you're doing a product demo, you might say something like, the most important part to pay attention to is blank, or the part that we were most surprised by is blank, or the, you know, the part that customers are etcetera.

对吧？

Right?

所以你在暗示，紧随其后的内容是你希望对方注意的部分。

So it's you're signaling that whatever comes after this thing is something that you may wanna pay attention to.

因此，这不仅是一种添加结构的好方法，还能在听众或读者注意力分散时，重新吸引他们的关注。

So it's a great way not only to add structure, but to also grab people's attention back if it has strayed sometime as they were either listening to you or or reading.

在这方面，我发现格式化非常有用，比如加粗和项目符号。

Along those lines, I find I find formatting really helpful here just like bold and bullets.

我知道你对过度格式化很反感。

I know you have pet peeve with too much formatting.

多少才算过度格式化？

How much is too much formatting?

我非常讨厌过度的格式化。

I really hate excessive formatting.

所以，你知道，我见过一些备忘录，其中30%的内容都是加粗的。

So, you know, I've seen memos where 30% of the note was bolded.

这完全违背了强调的重点，因为如果所有内容都加粗了，那就没有任何东西被真正突出了。

And that just negates the entire point of folding because if everything is bolded, then none of nothing is is being highlighted.

对吧？

Right?

所以我认为，使用格式化时，比你认为的更节制一点，可能是一个不错的准则。

So I think using formatting in general more sparingly than you think you have to is probably a good rule of thumb.

我也讨厌人们过度使用项目符号和短语碎片，在本该使用完整句子的地方却用了它们——完整句子能展现观点之间的联系，体现你表达的逻辑脉络。

I also dislike when people, overuse bullets and sentence fragments, phrases in bullets when they should use complete sentences that actually show the connective tissue between ideas, that show the logical flow of what it is that you're saying.

你知道，用项目符号和碎片化表达确实感觉更快、更简洁，但很多时候，阅读者反而需要费力解读、猜测你真正的意思。

And, you know, it's it's it feels faster and more concise to put bullets and and fragments, but a lot of times your reader on the other end of that is needing to decipher and interpret and guess what you actually meant.

所以实际上反而更耗时。

So it it takes longer.

而且我认为，这还可能成为一种依赖。

And I also think that it can be a little bit of a crutch.

这可能有点偷懒，因为你告诉自己你很简洁，但事实上，如果你要把句子片段改成完整句子，很多时候你会发现这比你想象的要难，因为你意识到自己其实并不清楚自己到底想表达什么。

It can be a little bit lazy because you are telling yourself that you're being concise when really if you had to turn your sentence fragment into a full sentence, a lot of times, like, it actually is harder than you think because you realize that you actually didn't really know exactly what you meant.

所以当你试图把它改成完整句子时，实际上你需要动用更多的脑力。

So as you're trying to turn it into a full sentence, you're actually needing to use brain power.

因此，我认为这是一个很好的检验标准：这个想法是否真正想清楚了？

So that's like, I think, a great litmus test of, like, was that were was that idea fully thought out?

因为如果想清楚了，你应该能很快地把它变成一个完整的句子。

Because if it was, you should be able to really quickly turn it into a complete sentence a complete sentence.

但很多时候，你其实并没有想清楚。

And and many times, you actually aren't.

所以我看到有些人以为：哦，我想让内容更容易阅读、更便于跳读。

So I see people, like, basically think, oh, I wanna make this easier to read, more skippable.

我就随便加一堆格式和项目符号，把一切都变成项目符号，但这并不是一个这么简单的解决方案。

I'm just gonna throw a bunch of formatting and bullets and turn, you know, turn everything into bullets, and and it's not quite that easy of a solution.

这和亚马逊的六页备忘录理念非常相似，杰夫·贝佐斯发现，如果你不能用一篇长备忘录用文字清晰表达自己，那你其实并不真正明白自己在说什么，这其实是一个非常好的过滤器，能帮助人们真正理清思路、认识自己。

It's very much along the lines of the whole Amazon six page memo where Jeff Bez has just kinda realized if you can't write it out as a long memo and explain yourself in prose, you you don't actually know what you're saying, and it's a really good filter for helping people actually crystallize and and know themselves.

好的。

Okay.

我明白了。

I see.

我其实不知道自己在这儿做什么。

I don't actually know what I'm doing here.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

我喜欢这个，它就像是这个的缩影。

And I love this is like a microcosm of that.

你能把一个要点变成一个完整的句子，而不是一个句子片段吗？

Can you just, like, make a bullet point a real sentence versus a fragment of a sentence?

我作为听众在想，好吧。

I'm thinking about as a listener being like, okay.

我怎样才能真正提高这方面的能力？

How do I actually get better at this?

所以，也许我们岔开一下话题。

So maybe take let's take a tangent.

我知道你们整个课程都教这个。

I know that you all teach a whole course.

你们会亲自带人做各种实践，帮助他们真正掌握这些技能。

You do all this stuff hands on with people to help them actually build these skills.

对于没有上过这门课或正在上这门课的人，有什么好的方法可以开始练习这些技能，并知道自己的写作是否在进步、是否够好？

For someone that hasn't taken the course or isn't taking it, what do you what's, like, a good way to start practicing these skills and know if what you're writing is getting better, is good?

是找一位导师，找一个你觉得写作很棒的人，请他们帮你审阅吗？

Is it, like, find a mentor, find someone that you think is a great writer, and have them review stuff?

有什么建议吗？

Any tips there?

是的。

Yeah.

我对这个问题有一个非常基于第一性原理的方法，那就是思考：现在我需要多长时间才能让我的读者产生我想要的反应。

So I have a pretty first principles driven approach for this, which is to think about how long does it take me right now to get to the reaction I'm looking for from my recipient.

如果需要多次来回沟通并且有很多摩擦，那就是我的基准线。

If it takes a bunch of back and forth and a bunch of friction, then that's kind of my baseline.

一旦你开始练习这些沟通技巧，效率会如何提升？

And once you start practicing some of these communication skills, how does that speed up?

如果原本需要七个来回沟通的环节，会不会减少到两三个？

If you would have had seven different touch points of back and forth, does that shrink to two to three?

并不是所有的摩擦都可以避免，但如果你沟通能力提升，很多是可以避免的。

Not every point of friction is gonna be avoidable, but a lot of it is if you get better at communicating.

我喜欢观察对方的反应，以及我能够多快、多热情地获得那种反应。

So I like watching for the reaction and how quickly and how enthusiastically I'm able to get that reaction.

对于有效的方法，就多做那些。

And for the things that are working, do more of that.

对于无效的方法，就调整你的执行方式。

For things that are not working, adjust your execution.

因为可能不是策略本身有问题。

Because it might not be that the tactic doesn't work.

可能是你执行得不够好。

It might be your execution of it, you know, wasn't great.

而且， basically 就是继续尝试。

And and, you know, keep keep trying, basically.

所以这里的建议是，看看你的写作、会议或建议效果如何。

So the advice here is just see how well your writing slash meeting slash suggestion goes, how well it does.

如果结果不是理想中的‘没错，马上做’那种反应。

And if it's not like, there's, like, the ideal immediately, yes, let's do it.

还有一种是‘我不太明白’。

And then there's the, I don't really understand.

回应其实是一个连续的谱系。

There's, the spectrum of response.

我听到的是，要留意你达成目标的速度是否总体在加快。

And what I'm hearing is just pay attention to if the the speed to getting what you want is increasing in general.

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，除了这一点之外，没有单一的捷径可以让你变得更好。

I don't think that there's any single shortcut on how to get better besides that.

我认为，对一个话题充满好奇和热情，会让你更有可能觉得尝试各种不同的方法、尝试不同的方式去影响他人是一件有趣的事。

I do think that being fascinated by a topic and being excited about it makes it more likely that you're going to find it fun to try all these different things and try different ways to, to get through to people.

所以我建议你以假设驱动的实验心态来对待它，几乎就像玩游戏一样。

So I would approach it with a hypothesis driven experimental mindset and almost like a game.

比如，当我这样做时，对方会有什么反应？

Like, when I do this, how does that other person react?

你知道吗？如果我这样表达，会不会得到不同的反应？

You know, if I frame it this way, do I get a different reaction?

当我尝试这种方法时，我能否更有效地突破噪音的干扰？

When I try this, am I able to, you know, cut through the noise more?

所以，是的。

So yeah.

所以我真的认为这关乎练习。

So I I really think it's about practicing.

我要说的是，千万别试图同时掌握30种不同的技巧，然后因为记不住去责备自己。

And I will say that the way not to do it is to try to incorporate 30 different tactics at the same time and then beat yourself up when you don't remember to do them.

你知道的？

You know?

当你学习一个新领域或新职能时，很容易因为学新技能而感到不知所措。

It's really easy when you are learning a new field or function to get overwhelmed when you're when you're learning a new skill.

而培养习惯的方法，通常不是一次性改变太多东西。

And, the way to build a habit is usually not changing so many different things at once.

而是挑出一件你想尝试的事情，时刻记在心里，在各种不同场景下以不同方式去实践，等这项技能熟练了，再转向下一项。

It's picking one thing that you wanna try and keeping that top of mind, trying it in a bunch of different settings in different ways, and then, and then getting it better at that thing before moving on to the next thing.

所以在我课程里，我经常看到人们感到不知所措。

So that's like a really common thing I see in my course is people feeling overwhelmed.

我总是提醒大家，你正在培养一个新习惯，所以请对自己耐心一点。

And, I always remind folks that you are building a new habit here, and, you know, take it be patient with yourself.

一步一步来。

Take it step by step.

我们这里讨论的很多内容，很多人可能会觉得：这也太微不足道了吧。

There's a lot of stuff we're talking about here that a lot of people might be like, this is so minor.

啊？

Like, what?

我只是用项目符号列出句子，比如，一开始就告诉他们为什么。

I just bullet point sentences, like, be a little like, tell them the why at the beginning.

我想分享一下，在我的经历中，我职业生涯最大的飞跃其实是提升了这些非常具体的技能。

And I just wanna share, in my experience, the biggest jump I made in my career was actually getting better at these very specific skills.

我有个经理叫弗拉德，他上过播客，我经常提到他，他特别注重良好沟通，要求清晰简洁，认真思考，花更多时间在文档和邮件、战略文档上，就是那种：不行。

I had this manager, Vlad, who's been on the podcast, and I talk about him regularly, who was such a stickler about communicating well and being very clear and concise and thinking and just spending more time on documents and emails, on strategy docs, just like, no.

这还没准备好。

This isn't ready.

多花点时间。

Spend more time.

这里有一件事不太清楚。

Here's something that's not clear.

仅仅做到这一点就极大地推动了我。

And just doing that was such an accelerant for me.

这些都是些小细节。

And it's all these little things.

这正是其中有趣的地方。

That's what's interesting about it.

看起来每件事都微不足道，但它们累积起来却能产生巨大影响，因为正如你所说，人们都能看到。

It's like everything seems really minor, but it all adds up to a lot of impact because to your point, people see it.

好的。

Okay.

不错。

Cool.

我明白了。

I get it.

我们走吧。

Let's go.

而相反，我不喜欢这个想法。

Versus like, I don't like this idea.

然后一切就都崩塌了。

And then it's like, it all falls apart.

所以，你对这个有什么看法吗？

So I guess any reactions to that.

是的。

Yeah.

所有这些小事情累积起来会产生巨大影响。

All these little things compound and make a big difference.

我经常听到人们认为，嗯，单个实例、单封邮件、Slack消息值不得多花几分钟去处理。

I often hear people think, well, you know, this individual instance, this individual email, the Slack message is not worth spending a couple more minutes on.

这不过就是一封邮件或者一条Slack消息而已。

It's just an email or it's just a Slack message.

这种思维方式的问题在于，任何单独的事件都不足以让人觉得值得多花一点时间去处理。

The problem with that line of thinking is that no one instance of something is ever going to feel important enough to spend a little bit more time on that.

但当你退一步看时，你会发现，这其实就是你所有的全部工作。

And then but when you zoom out, that's like, well, that's all your work then.

这 literally 就是你所接触过的每一件事。

This is like literally everything you've touched.

这所有的一切就是你的工作成果。

This is all your work output then.

因为每一个你认为不值得花时间去处理的环节，

Because every you know, any piece of that process you thought wasn't, you know, wasn't worth spending time on.

现在就变成了你工作质量的体现，而它本可以做得更好。

And now this is just the the quality of your work, and it's not as good as it could be.

所以，是的，这些看似微不足道，但首先，它们会累积起来。

So, yes, like, these might seem minor, but a, it compounds.

而且其次，所有那些所谓的‘大事’，别人都已经在做了。

And also b, all the, quote, unquote, big things, everyone else is already doing.

所以这里面的超额收益并不多。

So there's not a lot of alpha in that.

而如果你关注那些人们认为无聊或太基础的技能，并意识到这其实是一个你可以利用的杠杆，而别人却认为‘在这方面已经边际收益递减了’。

Whereas if you are paying attention to skills that people think are boring or too basic and realizing that there is that's a lever that you can pull that someone else thought, oh, we're hitting diminishing returns on that.

我不打算在那上面花更多时间。

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna spend more time on that.

但你意识到那里其实还有更多潜力可挖，于是你决定去挖掘这些潜力。

But you realize that there's actually more juice left to squeeze there, and you decide to squeeze that juice.

那么现在你就拥有了别人没有的额外优势，对吧？

Well, now you have extra juice, right, that the other person doesn't have.

所以，是的，根据我的经验，我发现人们太早地宣称自己达到了边际收益递减的点。

So, yeah, in in my experience, I find that people claim the point of diminishing returns way too early.

这不仅仅适用于沟通。

And this isn't just for communication.

这适用于策略、战术等等。

This is for strategies, tactics, etcetera.

他们只会尝试一次，你知道的，敷衍一下，然后就说这个渠道没用。

Like, they'll try something once, you know, a mediocre attempt and be like, this channel doesn't work.

这个策略没用。

This tactic doesn't work.

你知道吗？

You know?

真的吗？

It's like, really?

因为很多其他人在用它的时候非常有创意，而且效果很好。

Because it's working for a lot of other people who are getting really creative with it.

我不是说每件事都必须对你有用，但你直接断言这东西根本没用，感觉有点不够诚实。

You know, I'm not saying that everything has to work for you, but, like, for you to claim this thing just doesn't work feels a little bit intellectually dishonest.

更可能的情况是，你的技能、创造力或执行能力还不够好，这没关系。

Like, it's more likely that your skill level, your creativity, your execution ability was not good enough, and that's fine.

让我们坦诚地面对这一点吧。

Like, let's admit that to ourselves.

因为如果我们承认这一点，我们就能开始努力提升这些方面的能力。

Because if we admit that, then we can do the hard work of getting better at those things.

感觉如果你仔细分析，所有的建议最终都归结为：对你发布的内容多花一点时间。

It feels like at the like, if you really boil this down, it all the advice kind of comes down to just spend a little more time on all these things you're putting out.

我喜欢把它看作是一种前期投入，而且这确实是一种投资。

I like thinking about it as a little bit more upfront investment, and it is an investment.

这不仅仅是时间的问题。

It's not just time.

它是一种投资，因为没错，让一条Slack消息变得更好确实需要多花一点时间。

It's an investment because, yes, it takes a little bit longer to make a Slack message a little bit better.

但总的来说，如果你能减少很多问题和来回沟通，避免别人问你一些你认为他们不该问的事情，那么前期多投入一点努力，就能防止这一切发生。

But net net, if you save a bunch of questions and back and forth and people asking you things that you don't think they should be asking, then by investing a little bit of upfront effort, you've prevented all that from happening.

所以，是的，当下确实要多花一点时间，但长远来看会带来很多好处。

So, yeah, it it it is a little bit more time in the moment, but reaps a lot of benefits down the line.

今天的节目由Coda赞助。

Today's episode is brought to you by Coda.

我每天都会使用Coda来管理我的播客，同时也用来管理我的社群。

I personally use Coda every single day to manage my podcast and also to manage my community.

我把计划要问每一位嘉宾的问题都放在那里。

It's where I put the questions that I plan to ask every guest that's coming on the podcast.

我的社群资源也放在那里，我的工作流程也是通过它来管理的。

It's where I put my community resources, it's how I manage my workflows.

以下是Coda如何帮助你。

Here's how Coda can help you.

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Imagine starting a project at work, and your vision is clear, you know exactly who's doing what and where to find the data that you need to do your part.

事实上，你不必浪费时间去寻找任何东西，因为你的团队需要的一切——从项目追踪器和OKR到文档和电子表格——都集中在一个标签页里，全部在Coda中。

In fact, you don't have to waste time searching for anything, because everything your team needs from project trackers and OKRs to documents and spreadsheets lives in one tab, all in Coda.

通过Coda的协作式一体化工作空间，你能够获得文档的灵活性、电子表格的结构性、应用程序的强大功能以及AI的智能，所有这些都整合在一个易于组织的标签页中。

With Coda's collaborative all in one workspace, you get the flexibility of docs, the structure of spreadsheets, the power of applications, and the intelligence of AI, all in one easy to organize tab.

正如我前面提到的，我每天都使用Coda，已有超过五万个团队信赖Coda来保持更高效的协同与专注。

Like I mentioned earlier, I use Coda every single day, and more than 50,000 teams trust Coda to keep them more aligned and focused.

如果你是一个希望提升协作效率和敏捷性的初创团队，Coda 能帮助你以惊人的速度从规划转向执行。

If you're a startup team looking to increase alignment and agility, Coda can help you move from planning to execution in record time.

想亲自试试？今天就访问 coda.io/lenny，即可免费获得初创团队计划六个月的使用权。

To try it for yourself, go to coda.io/lenny today and get six months free of the team plan for startups.

访问 coda.io/lenny 开始免费使用，并获取六个月的团队计划权限。

That's coda.io/lenny to get started for free and get six months of the team plan.

coda.io/lenny。

Coda.io/lenny.

你提到了 Slack。

You mentioned Slack.

我还有一句关于你的精彩引语，之前没读过，现在我就直接念出来，这是和你共事过的人说的。

I have a great quote also about you that I didn't read that I'm just gonna read right now from someone that worked with you.

她说，她曾在你曾任职的公司 Slack 频道里搜索过 Wes 的旧消息，想找些灵感来提问你，结果发现：你从没有半成品的想法，每句话都完整无缺，标点精准，每条消息顶部都有清晰的要点。

She said she searched the the Slack channel at the company you worked at for old posts from Wes for inspiration for what to ask you, and she said zero you had zero half baked thoughts, 100% complete sentences, perfect punctuation, clear takeaways at the top of every message.

这种特质在单独看时你可能注意不到，但一旦你看到一家远程优先公司里其他人发的消息，就会发现鲜明的对比。

It's the kind of thing you don't notice in isolation, but once you see everyone else's messages in a remote first company, it's a stark contrast.

是的

Yeah.

谢谢。

Thank you.

我还要说，作为一个努力以身作则的人，我发现我提出的请求和建议通常都能很快得到不错的回应。

I will also say that, you know, as someone who tries to walk the talk, I feel like I get a pretty good response rate pretty quickly for the things that I ask for, for the recommendations I'm making.

这并不是，你知道的，并不是瞬间发生的。

It's not, you know, it's not instant.

也不是百分之百的成功。

It's not a 100%.

但随着时间推移，我意识到，改善我的沟通方式让我提出的观点更容易被他人接受。

But over time, I've realized that improving my communication has led to people receiving my ideas better.

你知道吗？

You know?

那些曾经只锁在我脑子里、让我沮丧于没人能理解的想法。

Ideas that used to be locked in my head that I would get frustrated that no one else understood.

人们现在开始理解了，这感觉真的很好。

People were now understanding, And that feels really good.

这非常、非常令人兴奋，让我更想继续这样做，更加关注这一点。

That's very, very exciting, and it made me wanna do it more, you know, and pay more attention to that.

所以这让我回到了我之前说的，关注哪些方法有效。

So that's kind of going back to to what I said earlier about watching for what's working.

你知道吗？

You know?

这种势头真的非常鼓舞人心。

There's there's momentum is is really encouraging.

我完全有这种感受。

And I and I totally feel that.

如果你一开始就能得到你想要的东西，那种感觉真的很棒。

If it starts like, if you start getting the things you want, that feels good.

是的。

Yeah.

我

I

我觉得，是的。

feel like, yeah.

好的。

Okay.

太好了。

Cool.

更多。

More.

多做点这个。

Do more of that.

是的。

Yeah.

我明白了。

And I get it.

都是一些很小的事情。

It's, like, very minor things.

比如，Slack消息多花几分钟，邮件多花几分钟。

Like, it's, you know, it's like a couple more minutes on the Slack message, a couple more minutes on email.

很容易做到。

Very doable.

比如

Like

是的

yeah.

每个人都能做到。

Which everyone can do.

这里没有什么神奇的地方。

There's no, like, magic here.

只是多花一点时间，用一下我们刚才提到的这些方法。

It's just spend a little more time and use some of these tactics that we're talking about.

说到这个，我来谈谈另一个策略。

Speaking of that, let me talk about another tactic.

你似乎对如何在表达时把握恰当的自信程度有一些非常好的建议。

You have apparently, you have some really good advice on finding the right level level of confidence in what you're saying.

这总是会引发一个问题。

There's always this, like, question.

如果我去向领导汇报，我应该多有把握地认为这就是答案，还是应该说‘这是一些想法’？

If I come to a leader, how, like, confident should I be about this is the answer versus, like, here's a bunch of ideas.

你怎么看？

What do you think?

你对此有什么建议？

What what's your advice there?

我发现人们往往在自信程度上要么普遍偏高，要么普遍偏低。

I find that people tend to naturally be on the spectrum a little bit too confident as a baseline or not confident enough.

所以，过于自信的人会把假设当作事实来陈述。

So people who are too confident might state hypotheses as if they are fact.

这真的让我很困扰。

So that really bothers me.

这是我另一个痛点：当你说到‘这是x’或‘这将会x’时，这和说‘这可能是x’、‘这可能会x’或‘这会增加x的可能性’是不同的。

That's another one of my pet peeves where, you know, if you say this is x or this will x, that is different than saying this could x or this might x or this will increase the likelihood of x.

所以我非常主张准确表达。

So I'm a big proponent of speaking accurately.

如果你能准确表达自己的确信程度以及你所掌握的实际证据，就能避免很多问题。初始直觉是完全可以接受的。

You can avoid a lot of problems if you speak accurately about your level of conviction and about the actual amount of evidence that you have for It's okay for something to be an initial hunch.

就说这是个初步的直觉。

Say it's an initial hunch.

别表现得好像你对此非常确定一样。

Don't act like this is something that you are super sure about.

你已经证实了，这绝对是这样，因为你的团队成员会直接相信你所说的话。

You've proven out, you know, that this is absolutely, you know, this way because the rest of your team is is listening to you at face value.

而你们可能会真的投入人力和资金去追求某件事，而你当初提出它时，自信程度却有些过度了。

And y'all might spend real headcount and dollars pursuing something that you have advocated for in a way where you kind of overreached, with your level of confidence.

所以这对那些过于自信的人而言是这样。

So so that's for people who are overconfident.

如果你过于自卑，同样也是个问题。

It's equally a problem if you're under confident.

我有一些客户，他们的CEO让他们向另一个团队提一些建议，因为他们之前做过类似的事情。

So I have some clients who, you know, their CEO asked them to share some recommendations with another team because, you know, they've run something before.

于是他们分享了所有这些出色的信息。

And so they share all this amazing information.

但在最后，他们却说：哦，不过你可以忽略我刚才说的一切。

And at the end, they're like, oh, but you can ignore everything I just said.

你知道的。

You know?

当然，你自己做决定。

Obviously, make your own decision.

做你觉得最好的选择。

Do what you think is best.

而且，如果你真的想忽略我所有的话，那也完全没问题。

And, like, if you wanted to ignore everything, that's totally cool too.

你知道的。

You know?

但其实，你根本没必要这么说。

And it's like, you just didn't have to say that.

你知道的。

You know?

你可以说，自己做决定就好。

You could say, make your own decision.

比如，把这些都考虑进去。

Like, take all this into account.

你知道的。

You know?

但你没必要把自己说得这么没分量。

But, like, you don't have to diminish to that degree.

所以，再次强调，准确表达很重要，如果你有充分的理由向跨职能团队推荐某件事，却装作自己也不确定，只是随便提个想法，这几乎是不负责任的。

And so, again, speaking accurately, like, if you have really strong reasons to recommend something to, you know, to cross functional team, it's almost irresponsible to act like you are not really sure, and it's just this, like, random idea.

嘿。

Hey.

如果你想试试，那就试试吧。

Try it if you want to.

如果你觉得可以，那就试试吧。

Try it if you know?

如果我们不采纳这个想法，我们可能会损失大量金钱和时间。

Like, we might lose a lot of money and time if you if we don't take this idea.

对吧？

Right?

所以，再次强调，准确表达真的非常重要。

So, again, speaking accurately is so so important.

一种简单的思考方式是，找到正确的平衡点：持有自己的观点，提出建议，呈现准确的事实，并在你无法100%确定时明确说明——这只是一个直觉，或者是我们的一种假设。

Is a simple way to think about then kind of the the right balance is have a point of view, have a recommendation, present accurate facts, and be clear when you are not it's not actually a 100% true, but here's a hunch I have or here's a theory we have.

是的

Yeah.

我认为，分享一个观点、提出一个建议，然后用证据、逻辑、第一性原理、例子，以及如果有数据的话，用数据来支持它。

I think sharing a point of view, sharing a recommendation, and then backing it up with evidence, with logic, with first principles, with examples, with data if you have it.

你知道，并不是每种情况你都能有数据，尤其是当你在构建新东西的时候。

You know, not every situation you're gonna have data for, especially if you're building something new.

所以，这时候第一性原理就派上用场了。

So this is where first principles comes in.

比如，解释你是如何得出这个结论的，以及为什么你觉得这个方案会有效，这都能为你的团队和经理提供一个可以质疑、挑战或达成共识的依据，让他们说‘是的’。

Like, even explaining how you got to where you got to and why you think this is going to work, that all gives your team, your manager something to push back on, to poke holes on, or to align on and say, yeah.

我同意这一点，但在这个部分我持不同意见。

I agree here, but I disagree on this part.

当你分享你的思考过程时，你可以更具体地讨论想法。

So you can talk about ideas with a lot more specificity when you share your thought process.

你可以从一开始就这样表达：‘我初步的想法是’，或者‘根据我们目前所知，我的推测是……’。

And you can you can frame it all kicking off saying, my initial thinking is or, you know, based on what we know, my hunch is blank.

对吧？

Right?

所以准确地表达，并且仍然提出这些事实，以便我们都能在现有认知基础上做出尽可能明智的决定。

So speaking accurately and then still bringing up those facts so that we can all make as informed of a decision as we can make given what we know.

我得到的一条对我帮助很大的建议是，尽量不要在表达方式上带有偏见。

Advice I got that really helped here for me was to try to not be super try not to be biased with how you frame everything.

你有自己的建议，关于如何做某事。

You have your suggestion for how to do something.

很容易把所有数据都往那个方向歪曲。

It's easy to just bias all of the data to point in that direction.

我认为如果人们注意到这一点，他们会想，哦，好吧。

And I think it's and if people notice that, they're like, oh, okay.

我不能完全信任这个，因为我看得出你明显有某种立场。

Well, I can't really trust this because I see you're just like, you clearly have an agenda.

所以有点像是，你可以有自己的立场和观点，但要分清什么是真正真实的。

So it's a little bit like, have an agenda and a POV, but be clear about what is actually true.

要准确。

Be accurate.

是的。

Yeah.

我认为，每当人们因为你的这种偏见而忽视你的说法时，情况都不太好。

I think anytime people have to discount what you're saying because you are biased in this way, is is not great.

有没有一个例子能说明你在这里描述的情况呢？

Is there an example by by any chance that highlights what you're describing here?

是的。

Yeah.

在我的课程中，我谈到不要做一个固执的殉道者。

So in my course, I talk about not being a single-minded martyr.

所谓固执的殉道者，就是那种非常有议程的人，他们希望自己的建议被通过，于是提供大量支持这一方向的证据，但当其他人不认同或持怀疑态度时，就会变得非常沮丧。

So single-minded martyr is someone who very much has an agenda, who wants the recommendation to go through, and is presenting a bunch of evidence supporting that direction, and then gets really frustrated when other people are not seeing it or are skeptical.

我的一位客户在提出建议时就是一个固执的殉道者。

And so one of my clients was a single-minded martyr in a recommendation she was making.

她在公司负责增长和获客方面，但在争取跨职能团队成员为她的项目提供人力支持时遇到了困难。

So she was on the growth acquisition side of her company and was having trouble with cross functional team members lending headcount to her project.

于是每个人都说：‘哦，是的。’

And so everyone would say, like, oh, yes.

我们相信这一点。

We believe in this.

这很重要，但就是不愿意真正把他们一半的工程师借给她两周。

This is important, but wouldn't wanna actually give her, you know, half of their engineer for two weeks.

我们当时在讨论这个问题。

And we were talking about it.

在交谈过程中，她透露说，年初时CEO曾表示，公司全年的目标是留存率，最大的挑战和机会在于留存，而不是增长。

And as we were talking, she revealed that the CEO had at the beginning of the year said that the company wide goal is retention that year, that their biggest challenges and areas of opportunity were in retention, not necessarily in growth.

一旦她跳出局限，意识到这一点后，就能把她的建议放在更宏观的背景下看待，明白这并不是只有她一个人在乎这家公司。

And once she zoomed out and realized this, she was able to put her recommendation in context and realize that, you know, it's not just, you know, I'm the only one who cares about this company.

每个人都是伪君子。

Everyone is a hypocrite.

他们说相信这一点，但其实并不想真正去落实。

They say they believe this, but, like, don't actually wanna work on it.

你知道，在那之前，这一直是她的想法。

You know, before that was that was kind of her narrative.

但一旦她跳出框架，意识到自己成了孤军奋战的殉道者，她就能更好地将自己的建议融入组织整体的背景中。

But once she zoomed out and and realized she's being a single martyr martyr, she could better fit her proposal in the context of what else was happening in the organization.

我认为，这其实是初级员工和高级员工之间一个很大的区别。

I think, actually, this is a really big difference between more junior people versus more senior people.

初级员工会觉得：我需要一个胜利。

More junior people are like, I need a win.

我需要让这个提案得到批准，我会一直争取，直到获得肯定。

Like, I need to get a yes for this proposal, and I'm gonna keep advocating for it until I get a yes.

而有时候，对公司来说最好的决定并不是现在就做。

Whereas really sometimes the best decision for the company is not right now.

因为这个提案目前并不符合我们的优先事项。

Like, this doesn't actually fit our priorities right now.

对吧？

Right?

或者说是yes，但让我们调整一下投入的规模。

Or maybe yes, but let's right size the level of investment.

所以它可能看起来只有原提案建议规模的一半左右。

So it might look like half whatever the proposal, you know, the the the size of what that recommendation actually was.

能够成熟地意识到这一点，并将你的想法放在更大的背景下，非常重要。

And having the maturity to realize that, to put your idea into context is huge.

这花了我很长时间才学会。

Like, that took me a really long time to learn.

我认为这属于始终以公司利益为先的范畴。

And, I think that goes under the umbrella of always do what's best for the company.

而不一定是对我自己、我的职业、我的团队或我的成就最有利的。

Not necessarily what's best for me, my career, my team, my wins.

你知道的？

You know?

如果你优先考虑对公司最有利的事情，这能帮助你以更恰当的方式继续倡导你的想法，同时保持更多的平和心态。

If you if you prioritize what's best for the company, that that helps you have a more right sized way of still, you know, advocating for your ideas, but doing it with a bit more equanimity.

而且还要与公司的本质联系起来。

And also just connecting to what the company is.

如果你所提议的内容与公司当前重视的方向不一致，那么它不太可能被优先考虑。

Just this idea of if the thing you're pitching is not aligned with what is important to the company right now, it's unlikely to be prioritized.

这说得通。

Like, it makes sense.

这就是为什么领导者要做选择。

This is why leaders choose.

这才是最重要的。

Here's what matters most.

我们必须优先做那些能帮助我们当前推动事业的事情，比如留住人才或增加收入。

We gotta do the things that are gonna help us drive this thing right now, like retention or or revenue.

所以我认为，这是一个子目标或子策略：每次提出建议时，都要将其与你所面向的那个人的目标联系起来，让他们明白：哦，我懂了。

And so that's just, I think, a sub goal sub tactic there is just whenever you're pitching something, connect that to the goal of the person you're pitching to so that they're like, oh, I see.

这对我有什么帮助？

How's this gonna help me?

太好了。

That's great.

我们干吧。

Let's do it.

很好的建议。

Great advice.

我觉得很多人都会遇到这个问题。

And I think this is something a lot of people run into.

这就是为什么

It's just why

他们为什么在听我？

are they listening to me?

他们为什么不想要？

Why don't they want?

这是个非常好的主意。

That's such a good idea.

是的。

Mhmm.

他们讨厌我。

They hate me.

这事儿啊，我猜他们讨厌我。

It's something oh, I bet they hate me.

他们不信任我。

They don't trust me.

当事情只是像这样，好吧。

When it's just like, okay.

现在这不是派对。

This isn't a party right now.

我们改天再回来谈吧。

Let's come back to it another time.

好的。

Okay.

我想再讲几个策略，然后我会转到另一个话题，谈谈管理者以及如何做一名管理者。

I wanna get to a couple more tactics, and then I'm gonna shift directions to talk about managers and being a manager.

你有一个很棒的框架，叫MOO。

You have an awesome framework called MOO.

MOO是什么意思？

What does MOO?

它代表什么？具体是做什么的？

What does it stand for, and what is it all about?

MOO代表最明显的异议，M-O-O。

MOO stands for most obvious objection, m o o.

其核心思想是，很多时候我们会对收到的问题感到惊讶，尤其是在会议中，你会觉得自己被突然袭击了。

And the thought there is that a lot of times, we're surprised by the questions that we get, especially in meetings where, you know, we feel blindsided.

这完全出乎意料。

That was unexpected.

然后我们就被动了。

And then we're we're on our back foot.

但如果你花两分钟想想，当我提出这个时，可能会遇到哪些明显的反对意见，你通常很快就能想到其中一些。

When really, if you thought for even two minutes about what are obvious objections that I'm likely to get when I share this, you often immediately come up with what some of those things are.

所以，你能预见到每一个反对意见吗？

So are you gonna be able to anticipate every single objection?

不能。

No.

但你能预见到那些明显的反对意见吗？

But can you anticipate the obvious ones?

当然可以。

Absolutely.

因此，彻底了解自己的论点，包括反方论点，就变得至关重要。

And so this is where knowing your own argument in and out, including counterarguments, becomes so important.

所以，要像了解支持这件事的理由一样，深入了解你的反方论点。

So knowing your counterarguments as well as you know the arguments for doing the thing.

当你这样准备时，你就不大可能感到措手不及。

When you do that, when you when you, you know, have prepared in that way, you're less likely to to feel caught off guard.

当你听我讲这些时，显然我不该这么做，但实际上很少有人真的会这样做。

When you hear you talk about this, it's like, obviously, I shouldn't do this, But nobody like, very few people actually do this.

花上几分钟认真想想。

Like, actually spend a couple minutes.

好的。

Okay.

这就是我要提出的观点。

Here's what I'm gonna pitch.

哪怕只有几秒钟也好。

Even a couple seconds, really.

真的，哪怕只有几秒钟，你的大脑也会想到些什么。

Like, really, like, even a couple seconds, your brain will will think of something.

你有没有一个故事或例子，能说明MOO的这种力量？

Is there is there a story or an example of this that you share that highlights this idea of the power of MOO?

我每天都会多次使用MOO。

I use MOO multiple times a day every day.

每一天都是如此。

Every single day.

比如，无论我即将说什么，我都会想：别人可能会怎么反对这一点？

Like, literally whatever I'm about to say, I think, how might someone disagree with this?

或者，可能会有什么异议？

Or what might an objection be?

所以，无论我写什么、说什么，这都是一个很好的心理过滤器，因为它能促使你以一种有条理的方式提前思考几步。

So whatever it is I'm writing saying, it's a really good mental filter because it encourages you to think a couple steps ahead in kind of a structured way.

对吧？

Right?

比如，如果我要这么说，对方可能会这样回应我。

Like if I'm about to say this, the person may then say this to me.

如果我能考虑到这一点，我就可以主动提供这些信息，或者以一种方式表达，让他们不太可能觉得这是个问题？

Well, if I take that into account, I can I can volunteer that, you know, that information upfront, or I can frame it in a way where they're less likely to think that that's an issue?

所以对我而言，这已经成了一种肌肉记忆，但你知道，我们或许可以在最后加入这一点作为起点。

And so it's it's it's muscle memory for me at this point, but, you know, this might be something we we include at the end is something to start with.

但把MOO写在便利贴上，写下最明显的反对意见。

But putting MOO on a post it, most obvious objection.

你知道，别人可能会对什么提出异议？

You know, what what is someone likely to object about?

然后时刻牢记这一点。

And then just keeping that top of mind.

这是一种很好的方式，可以训练自己去理解和共情你的受众和接收者。

It's a great way to train yourself to be to empathize with your audience and with your recipient.

我们都这么说，也都明白应该这么做。

We all say that, and we all know we should do it.

但对我来说，这是一种非常具体、实用的方法。

But for me, this is a really tactical concrete way to do it.

我觉得你分享的很多技巧都很棒，不仅有助于你更好地沟通，还能帮助你更清晰地思考和梳理自己的想法，因为你可能会意识到：哦，这真是个很好的反对意见。

I think what's great about a lot of the tactics you're sharing is not only is it gonna help you communicate it better, but it helps you actually think and crystallize it better for yourself because you may realize, oh, that's a really good objection.

比如，这个反对意见可能是：这会对业务产生足够的影响。

Like, oh, oh, the objection is probably gonna be this one would drive enough impact for the business.

哦，这是个很好的观点。

Oh, that's a great point.

也许我现在不应该提出这个方案。

Maybe I should not pitch this right now.

是的。

Yeah.

它确实有助于塑造你的思维方式。

It definitely helps shape your own thinking.

我认为沟通和思考之间的关联比我们想象的要紧密得多。

I think communication and thinking are so much more interrelated than we think.

你知道吗？

You know?

我觉得人们以为思考是第一阶段，然后才是表达思考，但现实要复杂得多，两者是紧密交织的。

I think people think there's a thinking as phase one and then communicating the thinking, and the reality is a lot more intertwined.

而且我非常喜欢你刚才举的例子，提前预想可能最明显的反对意见，实际上会促使你意识到自己原本打算呈现的内容可能存在漏洞。

And and I loved your example there that thinking ahead to what might be the most obvious objection actually then prompts you to realize that maybe there was a gap in in what you were planning to present.

然后你现在就有了一个机会，在正式说出来之前，进一步完善这个提案。

And then you now have an opportunity to strengthen that pitch before you say it out loud.

我在这档播客中多次引用过一句我特别喜欢的话，正是与此相关的，出自琼·狄迪恩。

There's a quote I have highlighted on this podcast a number of times that I love that is exactly along these lines by Joan Didion.

直到我把它写下来，我才知道自己到底在想什么。

I don't know what I think until I've until I write it down.

我完全理解那种感觉。

I know exactly that feeling.

好的。

Okay.

还有几件事情是人们分享的，你非常擅长帮助他们提升。

So there's a couple more things that people have shared that you are amazing at helping them get better at.

其中之一就是在高风险的实时对话中保持冷静，即使事情没有按你的预期发展，或者你与他人意见相左时也能保持镇定。

One is just keeping your cool and staying calm during very high stakes real time conversations when things maybe aren't going your way or you disagree with someone.