我是如何打造百万订阅通讯和顶级科技播客的 | 莱尼·拉奇茨基

那门课其实给我带来了挺大的改变。

That was actually pretty transformative.

我当时在宾夕法尼亚大学参加了一门关于幸福心理学的线上课程，课程里全是剖析“什么能让人更幸福”以及“如何变得更幸福”的相关科学研究。

I took this online course at University of Pennsylvania about the psychology of happiness, and it was basically all the science of what makes you happier and how to be happier.

那门课对我的影响真的很大，因为它让我明白，只要做几件小事，就能提升自己的基准幸福水平。

And that really had a big impact on me because it showed you you can increase your baseline level of happiness by doing a few things.

其中一件事就是，要多往积极的方向想，也就是变得更乐观一些。

And one of the things is just, like, thinking more positively, like, thinking more optimistically.

还有一些感恩相关的练习我觉得没那么有用，但核心的点是，所有人都有一个基准线。

There's also, like, gratitude stuff that I didn't find as useful, but there's just something about you can everyone's got this baseline.

那门课里有个很重要的收获就是，每个人都有自己的幸福基准线，你可能最高到100分，也可能跌到0分，不过大多数人都是处在这两个区间里的某个位置。

That was actually a big learning from that course is everyone's just kinda those baseline level of happiness, and you could be, like, at a 100, you could be at zero, probably more most people are in between somewhere.

要是有什么很棒的事发生，你会开心得飘起来，幸福值骤升，但之后还是会回到那个基准线上。

And, like, something amazing happens, you go, oh, yeah, way up in happiness, and then you come back to that baseline.

就算发生了什么糟心事，最后你还是会回归到那个基准线。

Something terrible happens, you go back to that baseline.

你能做的最主要的事情就是努力提升这个基线，这样你就能回归到一个更高的水平。

And the main thing you can do is work on improving that baseline so that you come back to a higher place.

所以，这正是这门课所教授的大部分内容。

So that's what a lot of the work is and what you learn in that class.

其中一件事就是保持乐观，拥有积极的心态，不要让自己的思绪陷入‘这下完了’的消极循环。

And one of the things is just be optimistic, just kinda have a positive outlook and don't let your mind kind of spiral into these, like, it's gonna be terrible.

所以，这主要是关于多想想积极的一面，我觉得我的幸福基线确实提高了。

So it was a lot of just, like, think more positively, and I feel like my baseline of level of happiness has gone up.

而且我觉得，是的。

And I think that yeah.

你还告诉我运动，比如以前会跑步。

And you told me exercise too, like, used to run.

对。

Yes.

那真是一个很好的洞见。

That was a really good insight.

所以运动，当时的科学说法是，大概十五年前的事了。

So exercise, the the science this was like, I don't know, fifteen years ago.

我猜现在有新的研究了，但有趣的是，运动并不会让你更快乐，但它能让你摆脱负面状态。

I'm guessing there's new research, but the interesting thing there is exercise doesn't make you happier, but it brings you out of the negative.

所以你不运动时是负一，运动后你就回到零，基本上就不会抑郁了。

So you're negative one without exercise, and exercise brings you to zero, so that you're not depressed, basically.

说到压力

Speaking of stress

好的。

Okay.

我有个问题想问你。

Then I have a question for you.

哦，好的。

Oh, okay.

我们来聊聊吧。

Let's do this.

我们开始吧。

Let's do this.

因为我知道在你的播客里，你有一个快问快答环节。

Because I know on your podcast, you have a lightning round.

好的。

Okay.

我们要来个雷电速答。

We're gonna do a thunder round.

更快一点吗？

That extra fast?

那是什么意思？

Or what does that mean?

不是。

No.

是声音。

It's sound.

我认为最让你感到压力的一件事是你的选择性声音厌恶症，你能解释一下这是什么吗？

Your one thing that I think stresses you out the most at times is your misophonia, which is you wanna explain what it is?

是的。

Yeah.

说起来有点好笑，但这是一种真正的障碍。

It's like it's funny to talk about it, but it's this it's like this disorder.

这是一种大脑中的真实状况，我会被某些声音困扰，尤其是别人吃东西时发出的声音。

It's like a real thing in the brain where I get bothered by certain sounds, and so I get very bothered by people eating with

好的。

my Okay.

雷电环节要列出你最讨厌的五种声音，或者你可以给这些声音排个序。

Thunder round is gonna be top five worst sounds, or you can rank these sounds.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

你要给我列出来的是

You're gonna give me the

五个声音，从最好听到最难听排序。

five Like like, best best sound to worst sound.

好的。

Okay.

对吧？

Right?

那比如说，10分是最糟糕的。

So like, 10 is worst.

好的。

Okay.

那都有哪些声音啊

What are like

不对，10分是最好的。

10 is best.

我不知道。

I don't know.

最好的声音是什么？

What are the best sounds?

好的。

Okay.

什么是好？

What's okay.

好的。

Okay.

比如说咀嚼。

Let's say chewing.

咀嚼，从1到10。

Chewing one to 10.

咀嚼时嘴巴张开着，只是

Chewing like with mouth open just

咀嚼时最糟糕的那种。

Chewing like with the worst.

是的。

Yeah.

我讨厌这个。

I hate it.

10是最糟糕的。

10 is the worst.

10是最糟糕的。

10 is the worst.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道的，这可能就是那种情况，是的。

It's, you know, it's probably it's in yeah.

就是10。

It's 10.

九或十。

Nine or 10.

或者像指甲刮黑板那样，那是什么？

Or like nails on a chalkboard, what's that?

那对我来说没那么糟。

That's like less bad for me.

对。

Right.

是多少分？

What's the number?

比如，有个人坐在我旁边，不停地大口咀嚼。

Like, it's someone sitting right next to me just like chomping away

是的。

Yeah.

要叫任何人停下来，真的很难开口。

And it's so awkward to ask anyone to stop.

我讨厌这样做。

I hate doing that.

这就像

It's like

真的很奇怪，你就会想：闭嘴。

so weird that you're like, shut up.

你真好。

You're sweet.

但就是，什么？

But it's just like, what?

是的。

Yeah.

我就坐在这儿吃饭。

I'm just sitting here eating.

别管我。

Leave me alone.

是的。

Yeah.

每当我无意中在你附近做这件事时，我就是这种感觉。

That's how I feel whenever I do it by accident near you.

是的。

Yeah.

所以是十。

So 10.

所以就像指甲刮黑板一样。

So nails on a chalkboard.

什么？

What's?

就像是六。

It's like six.

我不知道。

I don't know.

五。

Five.

至于我不介意这个。

What about I don't mind this.

那婴儿哭声呢？婴儿哭声和你自己的宝宝哭声相比怎么样？

What about like a baby crying or your what's a baby crying versus your baby crying?

婴儿哭声，所以10是最糟糕的吗？

Baby crying, like so 10 is the worst?

是的。

Yeah.

那么有多响？

So like how loud?

非常响吗？

Like very loud?

就像新生儿阶段那样，完全不知道该怎么办，就像

Like like in in newborn phase, like like, didn't know what to do, like

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

那真的是……裘德出生的时候发生的吗？

That was really like, when when Jude was born?

是的。

Yeah.

哦，没错。

Oh, yeah.

那还挺难熬的。

That's pretty hard.

闪电问答环节。

Thunder round.

好的。

Okay.

打个分的话，是8分。

Like, eight.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

那当朱德说'是的'的时候呢？

What about, like, when Jude says Yeah.

一是最好的。

One one is the best.

是的。

Yeah.

而且

And

你还有没有其他声音觉得

Is there any other sound you

朱德笑的声音。

Jude laughing.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

那其他糟糕的声音呢？

What about, like, another bad sound?

我不知道。

I don't know.

好的。

Okay.

你现在如果想问的话，可以问我。

You can you can ask me now if you want.

好的。

Okay.

如果你感到压力大的话。

If you're getting stressed.

不。

No.

不。

No.

不。

No.

其实没那么多难听的声音。

Like, there's not that many bad sounds.

就是一些特别具体的声音，我会觉得……

It's just like very specific bad sounds that I'm just like.

篮球？

Basketball?

你

You

你知道，如果我正想平静下来，但周围一片嘈杂，那就糟了。

know, if there's just like if I'm trying to calm like be calm and there's like a bunch of commotion, like, okay.

比如那种鼓风机的声音，你知道的。

Like a gas, you know, blower.

哦。

Oh.

是的。

Yeah.

当我试图工作的时候。

When I'm trying to work.

我认为这对很多人来说都是个众所周知的问题。

That's I think a notorious one for people.

什么？

What?

这是十分级的吗？

Is that a 10?

如果声音特别大，而且就在我的脸旁边，我会说，比如七分吧。

It's like if it's super loud and right in my face, I would say, let's say a seven.

好的。

Okay.

没那么糟。

Not so bad.

你现在可以问你的问题，或者我还有更多问题要问你。

You can ask your question now if you want, or I have more for you.

我打算问你一个问题。

I'm gonna ask you a question.

所以你制作了这些令人惊叹、天才又幽默的图表。

So so you make these incredible, genius, funny charts.

这本书里有一个例子。

There's one example on this book.

所以你这里有第一本书，叫《我是不是想得太多了》，很多人感同身受，卖出了很多本。

So you have this first book here called Am I Overthinking This, which a lot of people identify with, has sold many copies.

所以你创作了这些图表，试图归纳生活中的各种事物、人们经历和感受的东西。

So you're you create all these charts that try to synthesize things in life, things people experience, things people feel.

这些图表中的很多都被人们在社交媒体上分享，但他们偷走了你的图表，假装是自己做的，或者只是说他们偶然发现的，并删掉了你的署名。

A lot of these charts get shared on socials by people that steal your charts and just pretend like they made this or just found it and they cut out your attribution.

他们把这些图表印在枕头和马克杯上，

They make pillows and mugs, and

还有许多网站在出售所有这些

there's like all these websites that sell all

你创作的图表，却完全不给你任何署名。

these charts you've made just like on swag that you get no credit for.

我知道这些年来这让你非常困扰。

I know it's bothered you a lot over the years.

你的图表为什么如此容易被分享，如此广泛传播？

What makes your charts so shareable, so widely?

它们为什么经常如此病毒式传播？

How why they go so viral so often?

顺便说一句，我已经不再关注这些了，因为这对我没有帮助。

By the way, I stopped looking at that because it doesn't help me.

总之，这样挺好。

Anyway That's good.

我觉得这样

I think that's

是最好的。

for the best.

想想看，

Well, think like

这才是好的。

That's the good.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得随着你的事业越来越成功，这对我来说就没那么重要了。

I think as your thing has gotten more successful, it's like not as important to me.

我觉得有趣的是，这些作品常常和我脱节了，我不知道为什么。

I do think it's interesting that they are often like detached from me, is I don't know why.

但是

But

对

Yeah.

人们都想争取到该有的功劳

People wanna get credit.

当他们付出了的时候就该如此

When they do.

而且我觉得我能想明白其中一部分原因，我创作的时候就能感觉到，不管是我做完就先把它放一边，之后突然发生了某个契机，还是我猛地反应过来‘哦，不对’

And it's I I think I can figure out some of them, it's clear when I make it, Whether it's like, I make it and then I let it sit, and then some other some, like, moment happens, or I'm like, oh, no.

这才是它真正需要的东西

This is what it needs.

然后我就会觉得，现在我能感觉到这个作品真的很不错了

And then I'm like, now it's now I can feel that's really good.

而且通常来说，这个改动哪怕是我自己做的，都会让我忍不住笑出声，甚至是咯咯直乐

And usually, it's like, it's something that makes me laugh or cackle even though I made it.

就好像，哦，我脑子里已经见过这个了，但还是觉得好笑。

It's like like it's like, oh, I've already seen this in my own brain and it's still funny to me.

或者它让我有点想哭，然后我就觉得，好吧。

Or it makes me kind of, like, tear up, then I feel like, okay.

我觉得人们会喜欢这个。

I think people are gonna like this.

我经常弄错。

I am often wrong.

而且有时候，那本书里有些内容我根本没分享过，但有人拍了照片。

And sometimes too, like, there are things there's something from that book that I didn't share at all, but someone took a photo of it.

这就是它走红的原因。

That's how it went viral.

就是一张书页的照片，人们却特别喜欢。

It's like just a photo of a page of a book that people loved.

甚至都不是什么数字高清照片。

Like, wasn't even like a digital high quality picture.

就只是一张随意的照片。

It's just like some random photo.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

这也很有趣。

Which is interesting as well.

还有，现在人们的注意力跨度，我通常喜欢制作一些非常简单、快速，能让你看到之前从未想过的东西。

And also people's attention spans, sometimes they're just what I what I like to make is things that are really simple, and quick, and show you something you haven't thought of before.

我觉得，如果内容很容易理解，现在人们的注意力跨度都很短。

And I think that if it's really easy to digest, people's attention spans are short these days.

如果它能引发他们的情感，那就是另一回事了。

If it makes them feel something, is another thing.

而且，制作一些不需要太多体力劳动的东西也很不错。

And it's also nice to make something that isn't a lot of, like, physical labor.

因为有些东西你做起来可能要花上很久才能完成。

Because some things you can make and it can take you forever to draw out.

因为我的大脑就是这样过度思考的，一会儿想这个，然后又想那个，再想别的。

Because my brain does work in this, like, overthinking kind of way of, like, this, but then, oh, this, then this.

人们喜欢简单的东西。

People like it when it's really simple.

是的。

Yeah.

我喜欢你提到的观点，比如判断一个图表是否完成，本质上是你自己觉得这太好笑了，让你发笑，让你有感觉，这和我思考我的通讯文章的方式很相似，尤其是通讯文章，而不是播客，在我看来，它就是让我觉得特别有趣、特别棒。

I love your point about, like, the way you know a chart is done is intrinsically you feeling like this is hilarious, this is makes you laugh, makes you feel something, and it's similar to the way I think about my newsletter post, and yeah, more the newsletter than the podcast is it just to me, it feels like this is, like, really interesting and really good.

这完全不需要等待别人给你认可或反馈。

It's very, like, not waiting for other people to give you, you know, approval or feedback.

就是我觉得这个很好。

It's like, I feel this is good.

我觉得这种思维方式和我处理自己东西的方式很相似，这真的很有趣。

And I think that's really interesting that that's similar to the way I approach my stuff.

我发现当你制作图表时，你会想得特别深，有时候太过聪明了，我觉得正如你所说，人们的注意力持续时间很短，所以这些图表有时太过复杂，我得提醒自己：这层叠太多，需要理解的东西太多了，有点过头了。

I find that when you work on your charts, you're like you think so many levels deep, they're like they're like so they're like too clever sometimes, and I feel like because to your point, people have a short attention span, sometimes they're like too clever, and I have to like, okay, this is too many layers you have to understand, and I have to like that's a little much.

你得稍微简化一下。

You have to like simplify it a little bit.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

你有时候就是我的编辑。

You're my editor sometimes.

我试过，但你总说：不行。

I try it, but you're like, no.

你总说：我不在乎。

You're like, I don't care.

我不在乎，拉奇茨基，但是

I don't I don't care Rachitsky, but

不。

No.

你通常可能是对的。

You're you're usually probably right.

是的。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

我再问你一个问题，然后我们再换回来。

Let me ask you one more question, and then we could switch it around again.

你是怎么想到你的图表创意的？

Do you come up with your ideas for your charts?

你的创意种类真多。

You have so many such variety.

你曾经做过一本成人书籍。

You had an adult book.

你以前出过儿童书，现在又有一本儿童书。

You had a children's now you have a children's book.

你正在为父母们制作图表之类的东西。

You're working on, like, charts for parents.

你还有其他一大堆事情在进行。

You have all this other stuff going on.

你的创意来自哪里，米歇尔？

Where do your ideas come from, Michelle?

创意来自于生活本身，以及留意很多事物。

The ideas come from just living life and noticing noticing a lot of things.

然后也经常去观察。

And then also kind of observing a lot.

我知道，当我冥想的时候，我的创作特别多产。

I I know that I've been really prolific when I've been meditating.

在冥想中，你会学会观察自己的思维。

And in meditation, you learn to kind of observe your own thinking.

如果你对某件事感到焦虑，比如，哦，我竟然会对这么随机的事情感到焦虑，我以前从没这样想过，这很有趣，因为这有点像是在每一个时刻都过度思考，而冥想本不该教你这样做。

And if you're anxious about something, like, oh, I'm that's funny that I was anxious about that random thing that I I've never thought about it that way before and which is interesting because it is kind of, like, overthinking every moment, which meditation shouldn't be teaching you to do.

但这就是会发生的事。

But that's what happens.

但我发现，如果我过于专注于工作，就会停止真正地生活，然后也就失去了灵感。

But I've noticed if I focus too much on my work, I stop living life, and then I stop having ideas.

儿童读物的情况有点不同，这正是我目前在做的，因为它们并不是关于那些贴近生活的内容。

And it's a little different with children's books, which is what I'm working on right now, because it's not like relatable things.

有一点相关，但更多是关于儿童的概念。

A little bit, but it's more children's concepts.

但成年人的灵感只能来自真实的生活体验。

But the adult stuff has to be just through living life.

观察。

Noticing.

是的。

Yeah.

是的

Yeah.

觉察

Noticing.

让我对此有所思考。

Makes me think about it.

我觉得大卫·塞达里斯讲过一个故事，说他必须答应所有邀请，因为他需要积累经历。

I think David Sedaris had this story where he's just has to say yes to everything he's invited to just because he needs to have experiences.

因为他必须不断产出故事。

Because he just has to keep pumping out stories.

所以他就会说：‘好啊，我们现在就去拉斯维加斯吧。’

So he's just like, sure, let's go to Vegas right now.

我们去吧。

Let's do it.

所以我觉得，这里很多工作其实就是去真实地生活。

So I feel like that's a lot of the work here is just to live real life.

你不能只是坐在那里空想点子。

You can't just kinda sit there and come up with ideas.

你得去尝试各种事情，做些疯狂的事。

You have to try stuff and do crazy things.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我的第一本儿童读物，很快就要出版了，这本书其实是源于观察为人父母和新手父母的那些瞬间。

So the first so my first children's book, which is is out soon, that one actually came out of kind of observing parenthood and early new parenthood moments.

我就是从这里开始的。

That's how I started.

我刚开始写《笔记本》的时候，试着为新手父母做些图表。

I started at the beginning of The Notebook, writing kind of like trying to make charts for new parents.

但我们一起读了太多儿童读物，以至于我脑子里自然而然地形成了儿童读物的韵律。

But we'd been reading so many kids' books together that I just had this, like, like, rhythm in my head of children's books.

于是我转到笔记本的背面，开始写一些更像儿童读物的押韵诗——就是写在笔记本背面的那些？

And so what it I just turned to the back of the notebook and started writing more like children's book rhymes involving This the back of a notebook?

因为你正在写另一本书，只是在这个笔记本里，我

Because you're working on a different book and you're just in this notebook, I

哦，这个是

Oh, this is

笔记本？

the notebook?

我把我的问题写在了后面，对。

Put my questions in for Yeah.

所以我一开始在前面写，不过我不给你看。

So I started off in the front I'm not gonna show you.

所以你从前面开始，写了一个不同的想法。

So you started in the front on a different idea.

我一开始在前面写，是给新手父母的图表。

I started off in the front, charts for new parents.

然后我就想，写了一些，你知道的，写了不少了。

And then I was like, got, you know, a few in, you know, like a good amount in.

然后我在公园里，对吧，突然就想，是啊，我其实一直想为孩子或婴儿做这些图表。

And then I was just in the park, right, and then I kinda was just like, yeah, but I I have always wanted to do these charts for kids or for babies.

我就是一直想写这些内容。

And I just kept wanting to write that.

所以我从后往前开始，然后就这样填满了整本。

So I started in the back, and then I filled it up that way.

我很喜欢这一点，这又是另一个追随内心驱动力的例子，而不是只做你原本在做的事。

I love that this is another example of just following pull, and not just doing the thing that you're doing.

就是觉得这个在吸引我，我要试试看，看看会走向哪里。

Just like, this is pulling me in, I'm gonna try it, and just see where it goes.

看看这个。

Look at this.

真是个巧妙的呼应。

What a callback.

好的。

Okay.

现在轮到你了，米歇尔。

Back to you, Michelle.

好的。

Okay.

轮到你了。

Back to you.

轮到我了。

Back to me.

轮到你了，伦尼。

Back you, Lenny.

通过我轮到你。

Back to you through me.

通过你。

Through you.

没错。

Exactly.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

所以告诉我吧，我确实想问你这个问题。

So tell me about I I do wanna ask you this question.

受一个朋友的启发，他会给你起反向昵称，比如叫你伦纳德。

Inspired by a friend who, like, reverse nicknames you, and says, like, Leonard.

你的全名是伦纳德吗？

Is your name full name Leonard?

Lenny 这个名字是怎么来的？

Where's Lenny come from?

反向昵称的意思是，他们未经你要求就给你起了个昵称。

And by the reverse nickname meaning they give you a nickname without you, like, asking them to

确实有些人会在你没要求的情况下给你起昵称。

Well, there's people who give you a nickname without you asking.

是的。

Yeah.

那就是对。

That's yes.

是的。

Yeah.

他给你全名。

He gives you the full name.

哦，我明白了。

Oh, I see.

这让名字变长了。

Makes it long.

是的。

Yeah.

这没什么特别的。

It's not a thing.

我只是

I just

取消昵称。

Unnickname.

好的。

Okay.

就像那样。

Like that.

好的。

Okay.

所以问题在于我的真实姓名，当我从乌克兰搬到美国时，我们最近在与鲍里斯的播客中聊过这个，结果发现那是个非常非常著名的城市敖德萨。

So the question is my well, my real name so when I moved to The US from The Ukraine, which we recently chatted about on a podcast with Boris, which turned out to be a big big muse Odessa.

人们。

People.

敖德萨。

Odessa.

是的

Yeah.

我父母给我取的名字是列昂尼德，这是我在美国的正式名字，但他们叫我伦尼。

My parents named me Leonid, was my real official first name in The US, but they called me Lenny.

大家都叫我伦尼。

Everyone called me Lenny.

当我们成为公民时，可以更改名字。

And so when we became citizens, you could change your name.

于是我的父母就把名字改成了伦尼。

And so my parents just changed it to Lenny.

所以这才是我的真名。

So it's my real name.

就只是伦尼。

It's just Lenny.

不是伦纳德。

No Leonard.

没有Leo。

No Leo.

是的。

Yeah.

没有。

No.

是的。

Yeah.

Leonard。

Leonard.

没有。

No.

就叫Lenny。

Just Lenny.

就叫Lenny。

Just Lenny.

是的。

Yeah.

我非常喜欢。

I love it.

还有列昂尼德，就像这是个俄罗斯名字，或者也指那个星座。

And Leonid, as in it's it's a Russian name, or there's also the, like, star constellation.

哦，是狮子座流星雨？

Oh, the Leonids?

狮子座流星雨。

Leonids.

我不清楚。

I don't know.

我觉得他们只是问朋友，我的俄语名字是洛尼亚，那它的英文版是什么？

I think they just ask their friends just like, what is my Russian name is Lonya, and so I think they just like, what's the English version of that?

我猜他们的朋友有些人就会说，Lenny。

And I'm guessing some of their friends are just like, Lenny.

我不确定他们是不是以什么特定的东西命名的。

I don't know if they named it after anything specific.

我可以分享一下你的昵称吗？

Can I share any of your nicknames?

我现在要猜一猜了。

I'm going to assume now.

我的昵称是什么？

What are my nicknames?

好的。

Okay.

说吧。

Go for it.

我不知道它们是什么。

I don't know what they are.

比如，Lunchik。

Like, lunchik.

好的。

Okay.

当然。

Sure.

我可以分享一下。

I could share that.

当然。

Sure.

你喜欢吗？

Do you like it?

是的。

Yeah.

人们都这么叫你吗？

Do people call you that?

嗯，它是

Well, it's

我家人就这么叫我。

like my family calls me that.

好的。

Okay.

是的。

Yeah.

这就像俄语里的‘是的’。

It's like a Russian yeah.

这是一个俄语的小昵称，叫‘lunchik’。

It's like a Russian little nickname, lunchik.

对。

Yeah.

你没事吧。

And you okay.

但是，陌生人能这么叫你吗？

But, like, strangers, can they call you that?

不。

No.

别这么叫我。

Don't call me that.

好的。

Okay.

说到陌生人，当有人接近你时，你感觉如何？会不会觉得奇怪？

And speaking of strangers, how do you feel when people approach you, and and is it weird at all?

就像像

Like like

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

这会让你想到你的通讯简报已经变得多大规模了吗？

Like, does it remind you how big your newsletter has gotten?

或者，你喜欢这样吗？

Or like, do you like it?

你喜欢以某种特定方式接近吗？

Do you like certain ways of approaching it?

是的。

Yeah.

所以我想你指的是，当我走在湾区时，人们经常认出我，这非常奇怪，而这一切始于我的播客，有趣的是，我的通讯稿已经做了四年了。

So I guess what you're speaking to is when I walk around the Bay Area in particular, people often recognize me, which is extremely weird, and started with the podcast once it's like, interestingly, I had the newsletter for four years.

是的。

Yeah.

你得低调一点，像隐身一样。

You got to be, like, you got to be stealth.

是的。

Yeah.

我的脸在Twitter头像上很小，但自从我开始做播客后，人们就都认出我了。

Like, my face was tiny and some Twitter profile, but I once I started the podcast, people just yeah.

第一次发生这种事时真的很奇怪，现在则经常发生了。

It just it was, like, very weird the first time it started happening, and then and now it happens quite a lot.

我特别喜欢这种被认出的感觉。

I like it a lot.

这真的很酷。

It's very cool.

我真的很感激大家的关注。

I really appreciate it.

这种感觉让我心里暖暖的。

It makes me feel really nice.

我完全不会为此感到困扰。

I am not bothered by it in any way.

这件事总让我觉得受宠若惊。

It always is very flattering.

大家都特别友善，总能说出一大堆暖心的话。

People are always so nice and just have endless nice things to say.

我从来没遇到过任何糟心的情况，大家都只是过来跟我打个招呼，所以欢迎大家来和我问好。

I've never had a bad experience, someone just trying to say hi to me, so please say hi.

什么是可接受的。

What are okay.

那太好了。

That's great.

我经常问别人他们最喜欢的播客集数或最喜欢的通讯是什么，因为我只是很好奇。

And I often ask people what's their favorite podcast episode or favorite newsletter, because I'm just curious.

我总是会问，比如你们的创始人、产品负责人，你们的故事是什么？

I I always ask just like, your founder, your product person, like, what's your story?

是的。

Yeah.

这真的很

It's really

如果你正在咖啡馆里，戴着耳机，有人过来打招呼，你觉得怎么样？

What about if you're in the middle of like, you're like at a coffee shop and you have headphones on and somebody says like, hey.

或者如果你正在和孩子玩，你觉得呢？

Or if you're like playing with your kid, what do you think?

我觉得你在投射。

I think you're projecting.

对。

Right.

那你不想要什么呢？

How about what you wouldn't want?

女孩。

Girl.

是的。

Yeah.

人们不会那样做。

People don't do that.

我觉得人们总体上都很有意识。

I think people have been generally very conscious.

你知道，可能会有一个时刻，我们正取得进展，但我不能聊太久，也不想显得不礼貌。

You know, there could be a moment of just like, we're getting somewhere and I can't talk for too long and I don't wanna be rude.

或者说你接下来得专心忙别的事了。

Or you're like gonna focus.

对。

Yeah.

不过话说回来，也确实是这样。

But but then yeah.

目前为止这都还没成为过问题。

It hasn't been a problem yet.

差不多99%的人都一直很体谅他人。

Almost like 99% of people have been very considerate.

对的。

Yeah.

而且我不希望大家觉得不能来找我、跟我说明这种情况。

And I don't want people to feel like they can't just talk to me and say that.

这很棒啊。

That's cool.

是的。

Yeah.

那太酷了。

That was so cool.

我喜欢这样。

I like that.

是的。

Yeah.

有没有什么令人愉快的实例

Is there any like instance of delightful

比如，第一次

Like, maybe the first time

这样

this

发生的时候，我们住在马林，我记得当时和你一起走过圣安塞尔莫，有个开着红色小车的男人带着他的儿子从旁边经过。

happened, we live in Marin, and I was walking over through San Anselmo with you, as you remember, and there's this guy in a little red car driving by with his son.

他开车经过，我们在人行道上，然后他突然大喊：Lenny，我超爱你的播客。

He's driving by and we're on the sidewalk, and then he just yells, Lenny, I love your podcast.

天啊。

God.

这甚至都不在旧金山。

And this wasn't even in San Francisco.

这发生在圣安塞尔莫。

It was in San Anselmo.

我震惊了，然后他竟然停车堵住交通，只为打个招呼。

And I was shocked, And then he just kept he like held up traffic just to say hello.

我心想：天哪。

I'm like, oh my god.

是的。

Yeah.

我不会这么做的。

I wouldn't do that.

是的。

Yeah.

大概我也不会这么做。

Probably wouldn't do that.

后来我又遇到了他。

And then I met him later.

他在马林经营一家汉堡俱乐部。

He runs a hamburger club in Marin.

他非常酷。

He's very cool.

因为我在另一家咖啡馆又见到了他。

Because I saw him again at another coffee shop.

这真是相当愉快。

So that was quite delightful.

我喜欢这个。

I love that.

好的。

Okay.

你刚才说了一点什么。

You just said something.

好的。

Okay.

有人来找你。

People coming up to you.

好的。

Okay.

你得剪掉这段。

You're gonna have to cut this.

你看，不行。

See, no.

我们不会剪掉，因为作为播客采访者，我也会经历同样的情况。

We're not gonna cut it because this is what I go through too as a podcast interviewer.

我刚才走神，忘了刚刚想到什么事了。

I thought of something I lost in.

这就是我一直以来都在应对的状况。

This is what I am constantly dealing with.

对。

Yeah.

这就是作为采访者要面对的一个难题。

That is a challenge of the interviewer.

哎呀，坏了。

Uh-oh.

我觉得让大家看到这些还挺有意思的，你当时就会在心里犯嘀咕：行吧。

I think it's fun for people to see because you're like, okay.

我得琢磨琢磨接下来要说什么。

I have to think about what's I'm gonna say next.

然后你又发现，他们突然停住了，这时候你就会想：我去，糟了。

And then you're like, they're stopping and you're like, oh, shit.

那会是什么？

What's gonna be?

所以这就是为什么我做播客时，一直在偷偷给自己写笔记。

So that's why on when I do the podcast, I'm secretly writing notes to myself constantly.

哦。

Oh.

所以好吧。

So Okay.

鸡笔记？

Chicken notes?

是的。

Yeah.

好吧。

Well, okay.

我关掉了我的好吧。

I closed my okay.

我本该把它写下来的。

I should have written it down.

让我们聊聊，回顾一下你当初开始这个通讯时的那些线索，或者你年轻时做过的一些现在依然相关的项目。

Let's talk about, like, thinking back to what what kind of hints that you would start this newsletter or, like, things that you worked on when you were younger that are Now it is.

比如一些稍微相关的东西，你知道的，因为你曾经有一些网站，有一个Atheist Spot，还有一些……

Like, little or, like, a j mildly adjacent or, you know, because you had some wet you had, like, some websites, you had atheist spot, you had, like, you had some

Uutorials。

Uutorials.

Uutorials。

Uutorials.

这是一个。

That's one.

所以问题是，我早年做过哪些事情帮助了我现在的这份工作？

So the question is, like, what are the things I did earlier that helped me with the work?

你知道吗？

Do you know?

或者吧。

Or yeah.

只是回头看，有没有什么迹象能明显看出你会创办这个通讯，或者更明显一点？

Just because just looking back, like, anything that that is kind of, like, makes it obvious that you would have started this newsletter or, like, a little more?

我不觉得有什么能让我或任何人预见到我会做现在这件事。

I don't think there's anything that would have pointed me or anybody to this being the thing that I do now.

这在个人层面上完全出人意料，

It's completely unexpected personally,

而且我

and I

没人预料到这一点。

don't think anyone saw it coming.

在开始写作之前，我从未在网上写过任何东西。

I had never written anything online before I started writing.

我从来不是那种‘嘿，看我，我什么都知道，我有无数智慧可以分享’的人。

I was always not like, hey, look at me, I've got all the answers, and I have all this wisdom to share.

我一直觉得自己是个内向的人，喜欢躲在幕后。

Was always like, I'm an introvert, I'd like to kind of stay behind the scenes.

所以这对我来说是一条非常意想不到的道路。

So it was a it's a very unexpected path for me.

我认为我能做到这一点的部分原因是，这份通讯是在疫情期间开始的，我可以一直坐在那里打字，把东西发布到网上。

And part of the reason I think I was able to do it is the newsletter started during COVID, I could just sit there and type and put stuff out online.

我不用出门，也不用跟大家打招呼。

I didn't have to go anywhere and, like, hello everyone.

我可以待在我自己的小角落里。

I could stay, like, in my little hole.

但为了继续谈谈你之前提到的那些事情，因为我觉得我从未谈过这些。

But just to follow through on these things you pointed out that I did earlier, because I don't think I've ever talked about these things.

在上大学期间，我就有各种各样的副项目。

I had all these different side projects before like, through college, I guess.

是的。

Yeah.

在大学期间。

Through college.

我曾经是个非常坚定的无神论者，现在仍然是，一个犹太无神论者——这在犹太人中并不少见。

I was, a very big atheist, and I'm still an atheist, Jewish atheist, which is many Jews.

但以前我特别投入，现在嘛，算了。

But I was like very into it before, now I'm like, okay.

我不在乎。

I don't care.

随便吧。

Whatever.

我曾经运营过一个叫atheistspot.com的网站，那是无神论新闻的论坛，虽然这跟Reddit不太一样。

Believe it or don't believe So I used to run a website called the atheistspot.com, which was Reddit for atheist news, which is not a you know, Reddit is that.

没关系。

It's fine.

你不需要它。

I don't you don't need it.

但我去过一些集会，比如无神论者大会。

But I went to, like there's, like, conventions that we went to, atheist conventions.

所以我做过这件事。

So I did that.

有趣的是，那时正是谷歌广告投放（AdWords）盛行的时期，网站通过它来盈利，而网站上的广告几乎全是宗教交友网站，因为大部分文章都关于宗教。

And the funny thing is that was the during AdWords, when Google AdWords was a way to monetize your site, and so all the ads on the site, because most of the articles were about religion, were all these religious dating sites.

广告上写着什么基督教交友网（Christian Mingle）之类的，全是些跟受众完全不搭的搞笑交友网站。

It says, like, Christian Mingle and, like, all these funny dating sites that didn't make sense for the audience.

所以我一直觉得这很讽刺。

So I always thought that was funny.

后来我和一个朋友合作了一个叫Utorials的项目，那项目超前得离谱。

And then I worked with a friend on this other project called Utorials, which was so ahead of its time.

Utorials的理念是：由你为我制作教程。

The idea was Utorials, tutorials for you by you.

不错。

Nice.

所以是人们分享他们学到的东西，写一些指南，比如如何煮鸡蛋、如何快速洗澡，而且总是这样

And so it's people contributing things they've learned and writing a how to, like how to make eggs, how to take a quick shower, and there's always

这就像抖音。

That's like TikTok.

对吧？

Right?

这就像抖音。

It's like TikTok.

这比维基百科还早。

It was before Wikipedia thing.

我知道。

I know.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.