我将团队从20人裁减到3人，生产力提升了20倍

我觉得，一旦人们开始大量消耗令牌，你就会发现，有些人很擅长高效地利用令牌做事情，而有些人则不太擅长。

Well, I think that, like, there are once you have people burning a lot of tokens, then you realize that there are great people who are great at burning tokens for something very effective and the people who are not really great at burning tokens very effective.

过去，我们非常关注模型，因为能做的事情很有限，创造力也不够，因为一切都受限于模型的行为。

The past, we care a lot about models because we can do very limited things, and there's not that much creativity that we can't really have because it was limited entirely by the model behavior.

我想说，现在我认为AGI已经到来了，也就是说，模型已经比大多数人都聪明，甚至可能比所有人都聪明。

I would say, right now, I believe the AGI is here, as in the model is already smarter than probably every human, is already smarter than most human in the world.

所以问题不在于它们不够聪明。

So it's a matter it's not a matter of they're not smart enough.

问题在于它们很聪明。

It's a matter of they are smart.

你随时都有一个天才在为你工作。

You have a genius working for you at all times.

我们要让这些天才做什么呢？

What are we're going to make those genius do?

所以我认为，这就是人们如何利用这些智能方面将产生巨大差异的地方。

So I think that's where there is going to be a huge difference of how people leverage those intelligence.

我仍然不认为会出现一个AI聪明到人与人之间没有差别的世界。

I still think I don't believe a world where AI is so smart that there is no difference in people.

我觉得那些真正善于明智地利用智能去做一些非常有野心的事情的人，和那些不善于这样做的人之间，会有巨大的差异。

I think there's going to be tremendous amount of differences among people who are really good at using intelligence wisely for something super ambitious.

然后还有一些人，他们拥有最聪明的精灵，可以做任何事情，但他们不知道让这个精灵去做什么。

And then people who who have the smartest genie and then they can do anything, but they don't know any ideas for that genius to do.

我觉得那些非常擅长同时指挥成千上万个智能体的人，和那些连一个智能体都搞不定的人之间，会有巨大的差距。

I think there's going to be vast differences between people who are extremely good at combating, you know, like thousands of agents versus somebody who can barely make one agent work.

所以，收入不平等之类的现象会因此显著加剧。

So, income inequality, all of that stuff will be significantly increased because of that.

对，对，我也这么认为。你说得对，大多数人可能没有那种主动性，所以他们即使把这些东西放在手边也不会去用。同时，你可能会，我以前也有这种感觉，就是有了AI之后，你会觉得整个世界都向你敞开了，然后你反而不知道从哪里开始，所以你会有点不知所措，或者说在使用AI时会有一种瘫痪感，因为你觉得选择太多了，所以你也得克服这一点。

Yeah, yeah, I would assume as well, and I mean you're right, you know, most people are probably, they don't have high agency, that's why they wouldn't even use that stuff even if it was at their kind of fingertips, and then at the same time, you know, you probably, I have this feeling in the past as well now with AI, you feel like, oh, the whole world is open to you, then you don't even know how where to start, and that's why you kind of get paralyzed, you know, or like there's a paralysis in using AI, because you feel like the options are just too vast, and so you kind of have to overcome this as well.

你觉得，如果你想成为一个优秀的token消耗者，一个伟大的token消耗者，你怎么才能学会这种技能呢？

How would you say, if you wanna become a good token maxer, you know, a great token maxer, how can you learn this sort of like?

嗯，我觉得首先，我认为现在你根本不需要懂编程。

Well, I think there's first of all, like, I I don't really think you need to know coding at all at this point.

我就觉得，我见过很多擅长用AI的人，他们其实一点都不懂技术。

I I was like, I I've I've seen many people who are really good at using AI, and they're surprisingly not technical.

因为我觉得，程序员习惯了用特定的方式写代码。

Because I think when you're a programmer, you're used to coding certain ways.

他们习惯了用特定的方式引导AI。

You're used to guiding AI to a certain way.

他们容易陷入细节里。

You tend to be in the nitty gritty details.

但如果你不懂那些写代码的细节，反而能跳出框架思考。

But when you don't know the nitty gritty details of how they actually write code, and then you're able to think outside the box.

所以我看到很多做生意的、学人文的人，他们反而很擅长指挥AI，有时候比开发者还厉害。

So I'm seeing a lot of people who are business people, who are humanities people, they turns out they are great at commanding AI, sometimes way better than the developer.

所以，懂技术绝对不是必要条件。

So that is definitely not a requirement that you have to be technical.

我觉得最大的区别在于，那些非常有主动性、非常擅长指挥的人，因为在我们公司，我们做Tycoon。

I think that the biggest difference I see people who are very agentic, who are very good at command because at my company, we do Tycoon.

所以我们做的事情，基本上就是让一个人能管理几百个智能体去干活。

So what we do is we help essentially, one person can manage like hundreds of agents to do things.

很多人用我们来经营一人公司。

A lot of people are using us to run one person company.

很多人用我们来运营初创公司。

A lot of them are using us to run startups.

所以我们能看到，有些人很擅长用AdWords，但不太会用AI。

So we can see people who are very good at using AdWords and people who are not very good at using AI.

我觉得最大的区别是，如果我们要有效利用AI，那就像怎么有效管理人一样。

I think the biggest difference is that a very good If If we were to use AI effectively, it's like how do you manage people effectively?

如果你对直接下属事无巨细地管，那你可能管不了太多人，因为你得一直盯着。

If you were to micromanage a direct report, you probably can't manage a lot of direct reports because you have to constantly watching.

所以关键是怎么设计一个系统，让你能把一个大项目交给AI。

So the whole point is how do you design a system where you can give AI a huge project?

有时候它会出错，但你必须建立防护措施，这样它们就不太可能犯大错。

Sometimes it will mess up, but you have to build a guardrail so it's less likely they will mess up big time.

但你也要给它们很大的目标和雄心，这样它们才能真正做大事。

But you also give them a lot of ambition, ambitious projects so they can actually do huge scope of things.

当你给AI一个很小的任务，比如把按钮从蓝色改成黄色，它们能发挥创造力的空间就很小，因为任务本身太小了。

When you give AI a very small scope task, changing the button from blue to yellow, there's not that many ways they can be creative at creating a lot of impact because the original task is very small.

但如果你让AI，比如说，经营我的公司，帮我赚一百万，那可能又太难了。

But if you're asking AI to let's say, run my company and make me a million dollars, that's probably too much.

但正是这种雄心壮志能激励你去想办法实现它。

But that ambition can incentivize you to make it work.

也许你需要建一个营销代理，建一个开发代理，再建一个运营代理。

And maybe you need to build a marketing agent, need to build a developer agent, you build a operation agent.

这些代理之间互相交流，互相协作。

And those agents talk to each other, they collaborate with each other.

正因为你有很高的目标，你才能把问题拆解开来。

So because you have a high ambition, then you can break down the problem.

你甚至可以和代理一起头脑风暴，想想怎么设计一个能帮你赚一百万的代理。

You can even brainstorm with agents, how you can design an agent that helps you make a million dollars.

而且因为你的目标这么大，你反而会想出很多非常聪明的点子。

And because your ambition is so large, you're going to actually come upon very smart ideas.

然后你还是需要设置一些防护措施，确保AI不会搞砸。

And then you're going to have like you still need to build guardrails to make sure AI doesn't mess up.

但因为你的目标很大，更有可能在智能代理的帮助下，找到聪明的方法来指挥那个代理。

But because you have a huge ambition, it's more likely that through the intelligence agents help, you're able to identify smart ways to commend that agent.

所以我觉得最大的区别就是你的目标有多大。

So would say the only the number one big difference is how big is your ambition.

如果你的目标是‘我想当世界总统，帮我实现’，我敢打赌你会比那些只是说‘帮我写条推文’的人做得好得多。

If your ambition is I wanna be the world's president, help me get there, I bet you will do much better than some who just say like write me a tweet, you know.

嘿，大家好。

Hey, guys.

我很激动地宣布我的新书《比特币启蒙》，这本书是和墨西哥亿万富翁里卡多·萨利纳斯合著的。

I'm thrilled to share my new book, The Bitcoin Enlightenment, coauthored with Mexican billionaire Ricardo Salinas.

一定要现在就去买一本，了解一下拉丁美洲最富有的人之一是怎么看待比特币的。

Make sure you grab your copy now and learn about how one of the richest people in all of Latin America thinks about Bitcoin.

链接在节目说明里。

You'll find the link in the show notes.

对。

Yeah.

这个观点不错。

That's a good that's a good point.

关于你提到的那些智能体，作为完全的外行，我也在琢磨这个。就像你提到的那个 Open Claw 时刻，那真是让人惊叹，智能体居然能这样。

In in terms of the agents that you mentioned, you know, this is something I'm also pondering as a as a total layman, you know, but, like, we we had the open claw moment, you know, as you as you referenced, and that was the, wow, you know, agent.

我可以让自主智能体全天候替我干活，这多酷啊。

I can have autonomous agents running for me twenty four hours around the clock, how cool is that?

然后大家就开始想，我怎么能拥有自己的智能体呢？

Then people started to like, okay, how can I get my own agent?

一开始，大家觉得用 Open Claw 得有自己的 Mac mini 或者硬件，很多人就卡在这一步，觉得设置自己的智能体太麻烦了。

And then they felt like in the beginning, okay, with Open Claw, I need my own Mac mini or my hardware, and a lot of people stopped at this because they felt like, oh, it's too much of a hassle, you know, to set up my own agent.

未来还会是这样吗？

Is this gonna be the case in the future as well?

每个人都需要运行自己的本地大模型才能做到这一点吗？或者说，对于普通人来说，有哪些好的选择可以拥有自己的智能体并让它持续运行？

Will everybody will have to run their own local LLM to do this, or like what are some good options for like everyday people to get to have their own agents and have them run like continuously?

首先，我不认为Open Claw是为普通人设计的。

First of all, I don't believe the open clause is designed for everyday people.

我觉得对普通人来说，它用起来还是太难了。

I think it's it's still very difficult for average people to actually use it.

这其实不是优点，而是个缺陷。

And that is not a feature is a bug.

这不是什么好事。

It's not it's not that's not the good thing.

好的地方在于，它应该像访问网站一样简单，比如你去YouTube，点个链接就能用了。

The good thing is that should be so easy when you're using, for example, when you visit a website, you go to YouTube, just go to the link and you have it.

然后你就可以给别人发消息了。

And you will text people.

你不会想着要买台服务器才能给别人发消息。

You don't think about you have to buy some server to text people.

这种事情，大多数人不应该做，也不会去做。

Like, that is not something that most people should do and will do.

我觉得其实有一些基础设施方面的创新，我知道有人在搞这个，就是为了让它变得超级简单，可能就像一键点击一样，你就能拥有一个智能体。

I think there are actually infrastructure innovations that people I know that people are working on that to make it super easy, maybe just like one click away, you can have an agent.

所以我觉得这个问题甚至在未来十二个月内就能解决，我猜是这样。

So I think that problem will be solved even within the next twelve months, I would imagine.

让开放云全天候为你工作的想法，你根本不需要电脑。

The idea of having open cloud working for you 20 fourseven, you don't need a computer.

你可以在云端做这件事。

You can do that in the cloud.

你去睡觉。

You go to sleep.

你可能需要十个智能体。

And you may need 10 agents.

然后这十个智能体就能为你工作。

And then 10 agents can work for you.

你不需要买十台电脑。

You don't need to buy 10 computers.

我觉得这很快就会实现。

I think that will happen pretty quickly.

我觉得大家真的没必要浪费时间琢磨那些底层的东西。

I don't really think people need to waste their time thinking about plumbing work.

比如，怎么搭建让智能体运行的管道？

Like, how do you make how do you build the pipes for agents to work?

我觉得有些很聪明的开发者会解决这个问题。

I think people there are some developers who are very smart will solve that problem.

我觉得对普通人来说，想象一下，未来六到十二个月技术真正成熟的时候，任何人只要按一下按钮，就能有几十个、甚至几百个智能体为你工作，你什么都不用设置。

I think for everyday people, would imagine when the tech is really good in the next six to twelve months, anybody can, within a button away, having like tens of agents, hundreds of agents working for you without you needing to set up anything.

所以我觉得这一定会发生。

So I think that will happen.

只是现在，我们还处于很早期的阶段。

It's just that right now, we're pretty early.

现在还是早期采用阶段。

It's early adopter.

自主智能体确实很酷。

Autonomous agents are really cool.

开放云是这一趋势。

Open cloud are this trend.

所以整个基础设施和所有东西都还没准备好应对这个。

So the entire infrastructure and all the things are not ready to see this.

这就是为什么，你知道，对大多数人来说很难采用。

And that's why, you know, it's very hard for most people to adopt it.

但我相信这是一项大多数人不需要也不应该浪费时间学习的技能。

But I believe that's a skill that most people don't and shouldn't waste their time learning.

你觉得世界会变成什么样？

How do you think the world or what do you think the world will look like?

你说过在六到十二到十八个月内，当每个人都有了自己的智能体，那会有什么不同？

Know, you said in six to twelve to eighteen months, you know, when everybody has their own agent, like, yeah, what will be different?

而且真的很难想象，如果我们现在坐在这里，感觉好像，嗯，这一切会走向何方？

And like, it's so hard to imagine, like if we're sitting here right now and we feel like, okay, where could this all go?

你知道，我们已经尝到了所有这些好处，对吧？

You know, like having tasted like the benefits of all these things already, you know?

嗯，想想看，即使在我的公司，我之前的公司，我创办的第一家公司，我们差不多有80个人。

Well, think like even in my company, like my previous company, the first company I started, we have almost 80 people.

我们不得不筹集很多资金，有很多会议，有很多直接下属，还有很多对齐工作，等等。

We had to raise a lot of money and there's a lot of meetings and there's a lot of direct reports and there's a lot of alignment, whatever.

但现在我实际上只有三个人，因为我不想管理太多人，因为去年我们有20个人。

But now I like, I literally have like three people and because I don't really want to manage a lot of people, because I realized last year we had 20 people.

现在我们有三个。

Now we have three.

因为管理20个人太慢了。

Because it's so slow.

当你管理20个人时，有很多不同的工作。

When you're managing 20 people, there's many different jobs.

他们要开会。

They have meetings.

他们要协调。

They have alignment.

而且特别费时间。

And it takes forever.

现在只有三个人，我们的效率反而提高了20倍。

Now with three people, our productivity actually increases 20x.

因为很明显，我们招的都是特别聪明、有自主性的人，而且他们特别擅长用AI解决问题。

Because obviously, we have really smart, agentic people who are very good at solving problems with AI.

他们能带来超快的结果和效率。

And they're able to generate outcomes and productivity that's insanely fast.

因为，我们公司其实有几百个AI代理在干活。

Because, I mean, we do have hundreds of agents working for our company.

我们只有三个人在管理这几百个代理。

We have three individuals that manage those hundreds of agents.

我们可能更偏向于前沿的智能体方向，但我能预见这将成为未来的现实。

We're probably more on the more frontier agentic side, but I could see that that it will be a future reality.

大多数公司的扩张不一定靠增加员工人数。

It's like most company will scale not necessarily by the number of people.

我觉得销售人员还是会保住饭碗，但很多时候，公司可能不需要那么多人手。

I think salespeople will still keep their job, But a lot of times, a company probably don't need a lot of heads.

他们需要的是大量的智能体。

They need a lot of agents.

但这样一来，更多人可能会觉得有能力自己创业，因为成本不高。

But as a result, more people probably will feel empowered to sell their own company because it doesn't cost them much money.

你不需要非得雇一个完美的CTO或者最厉害的开发者来帮你。

You don't need to hire the perfect CTO, the best developer to work for you.

你完全可以靠AI来帮忙。

You can literally just ask AI to help.

所以我觉得，那些有很强自主性的人，通常能以更低的成本、更快的速度实现自己的梦想，还能快速验证自己的想法。

So I think people will generally, who have a high agency, will be able to accomplish their dream with less cost, with faster speed, and they can test their idea quickly.

很快。

Quickly.

但我觉得最危险的人是那些主动性不太强的人。

But I I think think the most dangerous type of people are the one who are not very high agency.

他们非常习惯美国企业的运作方式。

They're very used to corporate America the way that corporate America has been running.

他们很擅长开协调会，也很习惯办公室里的那些事情。

And they're very good at holding alignment meetings, and they're very used to doing office, all of those stuff.

我觉得在组织转型的过程中，他们可能会发现自己处境危险。

I think they may find themselves in danger when we're going through some organizational transformation.

我相信现在最大的转型就是组织转型。

I believe the biggest transformation right now will be the organizational transformation.

公司需要以全新的方式重新设计和重建，让智能体成为员工的大多数，无论是人类管理智能体，还是人类管理人类，我觉得这才是最大的转型。

The company needs to be redesigned, rebuilt, you know, in the fundamentally new way for agents to be the majority of the employees, human or the home managing agents versus human managed, human managed, human versus I think that is the biggest transformation.

现在还没到那一步。

It's not there yet.

现在，我们还是处于“哇，智能体真高效”的阶段。

Right now, we're still at oh, agents are so productive.

所以我们还是沿用原来的人力组织结构。

So we have the same human organizational structure.

只是每个人配了一个智能体，让这个人更有效率。

But each human has some agent to make that person more effective.

但你看整个组织的生产力，大多数组织并没有看到显著的提升，因为大部分时间还是花在开会、对齐这些事上。

But when you look at the organizational productivity, most of the organization don't see a significant improvement because the majority of the time is still spent in meetings, alignments, all

这些方面。

of that.

对。

So Yeah.

这很有意思，因为如果我要戴上悲观主义的帽子，虽然我通常不戴，但这样一来，各种关于社会影响的念头就涌上来了。

It's very interesting because, like, if I if I put on my doomer hat, so to say, which I usually don't wear, but, like, then, you know, all these thoughts of societal consequences come to mind.

你知道会发生什么吗？就像你说的，原来有80个人，后来变成20个人，现在可能只剩下三个真正的人，在管理这些智能体。

You know what happens like if you, as you said, you know, you had 80 people, then 20 people, now you just have like three real flesh meat and flesh people that are managing these agents.

对，那这些人会怎么样呢？

Like, yeah, what happens to these people then?

你知道，是不是会像你说的那样，每个人都会自己开公司，因为他们口袋里现在有一个超级智能的精灵，他们可以用它，所以情况就变了，不再是大公司说了算，而是很多个体创业者之类的，还是说会变成大家都流落街头，或者你怎么看这个问题？

Know, is it is it gonna be as you said, know everybody will start its own company because they now have a super intelligence genie in their pocket and they can use it and that's why that the picture changes and it's not gonna be about these big corporates anymore, but a lot of solopreneurs and stuff or is it gonna be that where everybody is gonna gonna be living on the streets and and and or how do you think about this?

我总体上是非常乐观的，因为我觉得至少现在AI缺少的东西是欲望。

I I'm generally very optimistic just because I think the things that at least right now the AI doesn't have is AI doesn't have desire.

它们不会告诉我它们想要什么。

They don't tell me what they want.

它们非常擅长帮我实现我想要的东西。

They're really good at helping me accomplish what I want.

但它们自己不会产生欲望。

But they themselves are not the one who come up with desires.

而且我觉得作为人类，我们非常贪婪，也非常有想象力，我们有很多欲望。

And I think as human, we are very greedy and we are very imaginative that we have a lot of desires.

而且我觉得从历史上看，我们的工作就是当美国大公司的员工。

And I think there's historically, our job was to be employee of a corporate America.

我们的梦想就是实现老板、CEO或者创始人的愿望。

And our dream is to accomplish our bosses or the CEO or the founder's desires.

我们也很习惯被当作机器里的小工具来对待。

And we're very used to be treated as a little tool working in a machine.

我们需要按照特定的方式运作。

And we need to operate in certain ways.

我觉得有了AI，AI可以在那些我们像小工具一样工作的岗位上取代我们。

I think with AI, AI can replace us in those jobs where we are a little tool, in a little machine.

但也许那样我们就能重新拥有自己的愿望，每个人都有自己的AI团队来实现我们的梦想。

But then maybe that's something that we can go back to having our own desires and we each have own, you know, a team of Asia that can accomplish our dreams.

所以我不认为……我觉得我是非常乐观的，因为我觉得人们有很多愿望。

So I don't I think it's I'm very optimistic because I think there's a lot of desires that people have.

人们有很多需求。

There's lot of needs that people have.

即使你想想一般的软件，显然，对于悲观的人来说，黑暗面是，他们认为SaaS股票会跌到谷底，没有希望。

Even if you think about software in generally, obviously, the the dark side for people who are pessimistic, they think the SaaS stock is going down to the bottom and there's no hope.

但我从积极的角度想，传统上大多数软件都是一样的。

But the positive way that I think about it is like traditionally, most of the software are the same.

Notion 对你我来说是一样的。

Notion is same for you and me.

Slack 对你我来说也是一样的。

Slack is same for you and me.

没什么区别。

There is no difference.

Zoom 对你我来说也是一样的，因为开发这些软件的成本非常高。

Zoom is same for you and me because those software are very expensive to to be built.

所以结果就是，你必须考虑他们能有多少客户。

And so as a result, you have to think about how many customers they can have.

他们需要巨大的规模。

They need terrible scale.

他们想给你提供标准化的体验，就像我们买衣服、买可口可乐一样，总是同样的罐子，标准化的体验。因为定制化体验极其昂贵，以前只有那些每年能支付数千万甚至数亿美元来拥有自己定制软件的企业客户才能享受。

They want to offer you a standard experiences, just like when we buy clothes, we buy Coca Cola, it's always the same can, the standardized experiences, Because customized experience is extremely expensive, before it was only reserved for very few enterprise customer who can pay tens of millions of hundreds of millions dollars a year to have their own custom software.

但现在这变得非常便宜了。

But now it's like so cheap.

每个人都能拥有它。

Everybody can has it.

所以，这解锁了很多新用户。

So so I but it unlock a lot of new people.

Vibe coding 是一种非常专业的软件。

Vibe coding is a very specialized software.

他们试图解决一个特定的问题。

They're trying to make, you know, solve a particular problem.

否则，它会被认为不是一种常见技能。

Otherwise, it will be considered too not a common skill.

没有风投会投资，但现在你可以自己动手做。

No VC won't invest, but now you can just do it yourself.

所以我确实认为有很多机会，因为自从去年以来，由于 vibe coding，应用商店里出现了很多新应用，很多新软件，甚至借贷机构都有自己的软件，牙医也有自己的软件。

So I do think there's a lot of opportunity just because vibe coding, since like last year, we have so many new apps in the app store, so many new software, even the borrower have their own software, the dentists have their own software.

我觉得那会是一个很棒的世界。

I think that's a great world to be in.

只是我们需要用完全不同的视角来看待我们所做的事情。

It's just that we require us to to use a very different lens to think about what we do.

因为我们太习惯于成为机器的一部分了。

Because we're so used to be a part of the machine.

我们不习惯去操控机器。

We're not used to running the machine.

所以现在我们必须换个角度看，我们都可以成为老板，操控机器。

So now we have to see your perspective that we can all be the boss and run the machine.

说到你刚才提到的vibe coding，你知道吗，我感觉一两年之前，很多开发者还在嘲笑它，他们会说，对，vibe coding就是给那些不知道自己在干什么的人用的。

Speaking of wipe coding that you just mentioned, you know, like I had the feeling that like one or two years ago, this was still kind of laughed at by a lot of developers because they're like, yeah, wipe coding that's for these people who don't know what to do.

但听你这么说，我觉得，好吧，现在这种情况也在改变，因为以后就不会再有那种区别了。

But if I listen to you, I feel like, okay, this is now changing as well, know, just because like, there's not going to be that difference anymore.

总有一天，我们不会再叫它vibe coding了。

At some point, we're not going call it wipe coding anymore.

它就会和普通编程处于同一水平，你懂吗？

It's just going to be at the same par level as normal coding, you know?

而且就像你说的，如果你不是程序员，可能反而更好，因为你不会受那些条条框框的限制，这些限制可能会压抑你的创造力。所以，是的，看着事情发展得这么快，真的很有意思。

And as you said, maybe it's even better if you're not a coder because then you don't think in these sort of guardrails, which maybe are are putting down your creativity, and so, yeah, it's just interesting to see how things are how fast things are developing as well.

我觉得会有大量的工作岗位，至少现在，我实际上正在招两个人。

I think there's gonna be tons of jobs for like, least right now, I'm actually looking to hire two.

只是很难找到我认为非常适应智能体的人，但对这种人才的需求很大。

It's just really hard to find the people that I believe are very agent native, but there is a lot of need for very agentic people.

所以如果问题是，我们会有更多工作吗？

So if the answer is, do we have more job?

问题是，我们会有更多工作吗？

The question is, do we have more job?

答案是，绝对有，真的，毫无疑问。

The answer is absolutely fucking really yes.

但问题是，如果你是一个没有创造力、没有主动性的人，在美国大企业里工作，习惯了开会和办公室政治，不想有任何创意，那答案就是没有。

But the question is, if you're a person who's not creative, don't have agency, working in a corporate America, used to getting meetings and office policy, don't want to have any creative ideas, The answer is no.

但我觉得作为人类，我们天生就很有创造力和想象力。

But I think as human, we are intrinsically pretty creative imaginative.

所以我认为机会还是很多的。

So I do think there's a lot of opportunity.

我们只需要忘掉那些美国企业里的破规矩，那些东西迟早要过时。

We just need to forget about the corporate America bullshit that is got to be Yeah.

对，你知道，在接下来的几年里就会过时。

Obsolete, you know, in the next