#405 – 杰夫·贝索斯：亚马逊与蓝色起源

我非常喜欢物理，因此学习了物理和计算机科学。

So I loved physics, and I studied physics and computer science.

我当时正沿着物理这条路走下去。

And I was proceeding along along the physics path.

我计划主修物理。

I was planning to major in physics.

我想成为一名理论物理学家。

And I wanted to be a theoretical physicist.

而计算机科学只是我出于兴趣在做的事情。

And I and the computer science was sort of something I was doing for fun.

我真的很喜欢它。

I really loved it.

我在编程和相关事务上非常出色，非常喜欢所有的计算机科学课程。

And I and I was very good at the the programming and doing those things, I enjoyed all my computer science classes immensely.

但我真的决心成为一名理论物理学家。

But I really was determined to be a theoretical physicist.

这就是我当初选择普林斯顿的原因。

That's why I went to Princeton in the first place.

然后我意识到，我只会成为一个平庸的理论物理学家。

It was definitely And then I realized I was going to be a mediocre theoretical physicist.

在我的课堂上，比如量子力学之类的课程里，有几个人能轻松完成那些对我来说极其困难的事情。

And there were a few people in my classes, like in quantum mechanics and so on, who they could effortlessly do things that were so difficult for me.

我意识到，你知道，聪明的方式有千千万万种。

And I realized, like, you know, there are a thousand ways to be smart.

是的。

Mhmm.

而理论物理并不是那种只有顶尖的百分之几才能推动领域前沿的学科。

And to be a really you know, theoretical physics is not one of those fields where the you know, only the top few percent actually move the state of the art forward.

是的。

Mhmm.

这是一种你必须天生具备特定思维方式的领域。

It's one of those things where you you have to be really just your brain has to be wired in a certain way.

当时有个人，就是这些天才之一，让我彻底醒悟了。

And there was a guy named one of these people who was convinced me.

他本意并不是要说服我，但通过观察他，我意识到自己不该去当理论物理学家。

He didn't mean to convince me, but just by observing him, he convinced me that I should not try to be a theoretical physicist.

他叫约桑塔。

His name was Yosanta.

约桑塔来自斯里兰卡。

And Yosanta was from Sri Lanka.

他是我见过的最聪明的人之一。

And he's he was one of the most brilliant people I'd ever met.

有一晚，我和朋友乔在做一套非常难的偏微分方程习题。

My friend Joe and I were working on a very difficult partial differential equations problem set one night.

其中有一道题，我们花了三个小时都没做出来。

And there was one problem that we worked on for three hours.

我们完全没有任何进展。

And we made no headway whatsoever.

我们同时抬头对视，异口同声地说：‘圣诞老人。’

And we looked up at each other at the same time and we said, Santa.

于是我们去了Yo Santa的宿舍，是的。

So we went to Yo Santa's dorm room Yeah.

他在那里。

And he was there.

他几乎总是在那里。

He was almost always there.

我们对他说：‘Yo Santa，我们在这道偏微分方程上卡住了。’

And we said, Yo Santa, we're having trouble solving this partial differential equation.

您能帮我们看一下吗？

Would you mind taking a look?

他说：‘当然可以。’

And he said, of course.

顺便说一句，他是最谦逊、最善良的人。

By the way, he was the most humble, most kind person.

于是他看了看我们的题目，盯着看了几秒钟，大概十秒左右，然后说：余弦。

And so he took our he looked at our problem, and he stared at it for just a few seconds, maybe ten seconds, and he said, cosine.

我说：什么意思，Yo Santa？

And I said, what do you mean, Yosonta?

你说余弦是什么意思？

What do mean cosine?

他说：这就是答案。

He said, that's the answer.

我说：不，不，别开玩笑了。

And I said, no, no, come on.

他说：我给你演示一下。

And he said, me show you.

他拿出一张纸，写下了三页的方程式。

And he took out some paper, and he wrote down three pages of equations.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

所有项都相互抵消了。

Everything canceled out.

是的。

Mhmm.

答案就是余弦。

And the answer was Cosine.

我说，约桑塔，你是在脑子里算出来的吗？

And I said, Josanta, did you do that in your head?

他说，哦，不是。

And he said, oh, no.

那根本不可能。

That would be impossible.

几年前，我解决过一个类似的问题，我能把这个题目映射到那个问题上。

A few years ago, I solved a similar problem, and I could map this problem onto that problem.

于是很明显，答案就是余弦。

And then it was immediately obvious that the answer was Cosine.

我有过几次这样的经历，当你有这样的体验时，你会意识到，也许成为一名理论物理学家并不是宇宙为你安排的道路。

I had a few you know, you have an experience like that, you realize maybe being a theoretical physicist isn't sure isn't what you're you're you're what the universe wants you to be.

于是我转到了计算机科学，你知道，这对我来说非常成功。

And so I switched to computer science, and and, you know, that worked out really well for me.

我喜欢它。

I enjoy it.

直到今天我依然喜欢它。

I still enjoy it today.

是的。

Yeah.

要成为一名出色的物理学家，尤其是在应用物理领域，你需要一种特定的直觉。

There's a particular kind of intuition you need to be a great physicist in applied to physics.

我认为如今所需的数学能力已经非常高了。

I think the mathematical skill required today is so high.

如今，要成为一名成功的理论物理学家，你必须是世界级的数学家。

You have to be a world class mathematician to be a successful theoretical physicist today.

而且，你知道，你可能还需要其他技能，比如直觉、横向思维等等。

And it's not, you know, it you probably need other skills too, intuition, lateral thinking, and so on.

但如果没有顶尖的数学能力，你很难取得成功。

But without the without just top notch math skills, you're unlikely to be successful.

还有视觉化能力，必须能够真正进行这类思想实验。

And visualization skill, have to be able to really kinda do these kind of thought experiments.

如果你真的想要卓越的创造力，沃尔特·艾萨克森曾写到过你。

And if you wanted truly great creativity actually, Walter Isaacson writes about you.

它让你置身于

It puts you on

与爱因斯坦同等的水平。

the same level as Einstein.

嗯，他这么说真是太客气了。

Well, he's he's that's very kind.

我是个发明家。

I have I'm an inventor.

如果你要概括我是谁，我本质上是个发明家。

If you if you wanna boil down what I am, I'm really an inventor.

我观察事物，能想出非传统的解决方案，然后我可以为某个问题提出一百个这样的非传统方案。

And I look at things and I can come up with atypical solutions and, you know, and then I can create a 100 such atypical solutions for something.

其中九十九个可能经不起推敲。

99 of them may not survive, you know, scrutiny.

但那一百个中有一个可能行得通，然后你就可以从那里继续推进。

But one of those 100 is like, maybe there is maybe that might work, and then you can keep going from there.

这种横向思维，这种在高维空间中的创造力——搜索空间非常庞大——这就是我的发明能力所在。

So that kind of lateral thinking, that kind of inventiveness in a high dimensionality space where the search space is very large, that's where my inventive skills come.

我更愿意把自己定义为一个发明家，而不是其他任何身份。

That's the thing I'm if if I I self identify as an inventor more than anything else.

是的。

Yeah.

沃尔特·艾萨克森以各种方式描述了这种创造力与孩童般的探索精神的结合，而你至今仍保持着这一切。如果让你研究自己的大脑、进行内省，你会怎么想？

And he describes in all kinds of different ways Walter Eisenhower does that creativity combined with childlike wander that you've maintained still to this day, all of that combined together, is there like, if you were to study your own brain, introspect, how do you think?

你的思维过程是怎样的？

What's your thinking process like?

我们来谈谈把想法写在纸上的过程

We'll talk about the writing process of putting it down on paper

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这在亚马逊是非常严谨且著名的。

Which is quite rigorous and famous at Amazon.

但当你坐下来，无论是独自一人还是与他人一起，思考这个高维空间并寻找创意解决方案、前进的创意路径时，你是怎么做的？

But how do you when you sit down, maybe alone, maybe with others, and thinking through this high dimensional space and looking for creative solutions, creative paths forward.

关于这个过程，你有什么可以分享的吗？

Is there something you could say about that process?

这是个非常好的问题，老实说，我不知道它是如何运作的。

It's such a good question, and I honestly don't know how it works.

如果我知道的话，我会试着解释它。

If I did, I would try to explain it.

我知道这个过程涉及大量的探索。

I know it involves lots of wandering.

是的。

Yeah.

所以，当我坐下来解决一个问题时，我知道自己并不知道最终会走向哪里。

So I you know, when I sit down to work on a problem, I know I don't know where I'm going.

因此，想要直线前进、追求效率，效率和创新实际上是相互矛盾的，因为真正的创新——不是渐进式的改进。

So to to go in a straight line, to be efficient, efficiency and invention are sort of at odds because invention real invention, not incremental improvement.

渐进式的改进在每一项事业和你所做的每件事中都至关重要。

Incremental improvement is so important in in every endeavor and everything you do.

你也必须努力工作，让事情变得更好一点点。

You have to work hard on also just making things a little bit better.

但我所说的是真正的创新，真正的横向思维。

But I'm talking about real invention, real lateral thinking.

这需要探索。

That requires wandering.

嗯嗯。

Mhmm.

你必须允许自己自由探索。

And you have to give yourself permission to wander.

我认为很多人觉得漫无目的的探索效率低下，比如当我坐下来开会时，如果我们在解决一个问题，我根本不知道会议会持续多久。

I think a lot of people, they feel like wandering is inefficient and should you know, like, when when I sit down at a meeting, I don't know how long the meeting is gonna take if we're trying to solve a problem.

因为如果我知道了，那就意味着我早已知道一条直达解决方案的直线路径。

Because if I did, then I'd already I could I'd know there's some kind of straight line that we're drawing to the solution.

现实是我们可能需要长时间地探索。

The reality is we may have to wander for a long time.

我喜欢群体性的创新。

And I do like group invention.

我认为没有什么比和一群聪明的人围在白板前，一起头脑风暴、提出想法、反驳这些想法、再针对反驳提出解决方案，如此反复来回更令人愉快了。

I think there's really nothing more fun than sitting at a whiteboard with a numb you know, a group of smart people and spitballing and coming up with new ideas and objections to those ideas and then solutions to the objections and going back and forth.

有时候你半夜醒来有了一个想法，有时候你和一群人坐下来反复讨论，这两种方式都让人非常愉悦。

So like, you know, sometimes you wake up with an idea in the middle of the night, and sometimes you sit down with a group of people and go back and forth, and both things are really pleasurable.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当你漫游时，我认为关键的一点是能察觉到一个好想法，或许去发现那个好想法的雏形，并抓住这条线索。

And when you wander, I think one key thing is to notice a good idea and to to to maybe to notice the kernel of a good idea, maybe pull up that string.

因为我不认为好想法是完整成型后才出现的。

Because I I don't think good ideas come fully formed.

完全正确。

A 100% right.

事实上，当我产生一个自认为不错的想法，并且它通过了我内心最初的审视，准备向别人讲述时，嗯。

In fact, when I come up with what I think is a good idea, and it survives kind of the first level of scrutiny, you know, that I do in my own head, and I'm ready to tell somebody else about the idea Mhmm.

我常常会说，你很容易就能找到这个想法的种种反驳之处。

I will often say, look, it is gonna be really easy for you to find rejections to this idea.

但请和我一起探讨。

But work with me.

这里面有东西。

There's something there.

那里有东西。

There's something there.

那就是直觉。

And that is intuition.

是的。

Yeah.

因为一开始很容易扼杀新想法，因为它们确实存在太多容易被质疑的地方。

You because it's really easy to kill new ideas in the beginning, because they do have so many there's so many easy objections to them.

所以你需要提前提醒别人，说：我知道要把这个想法完善起来需要很多努力。

So you need to you need to kind of forewarn people and say, look, I know it's gonna take a lot of work to get this to a fully formed idea.

让我们开始吧。

Let's get started on that.

这会很有趣。

It'll be fun.

嗯。

Mhmm.

所以你骨子里还是有那种理解余弦的能力。

So you got that ability to say cosine in you somewhere after all.

也许不是在数学上，

Maybe not on math,

而是在别的领域。

but In a different domain.

是的。

Yeah.

聪明的方式有上千种，当我四处走动、遇见人们时，我总在寻找他们聪明在哪儿。

There are a thousand ways to be smart, by the And that is a really like, when I go around, you know, and and I meet people, I'm always looking for the way that they're smart.

你会发现，正是这一点让世界如此有趣和精彩，因为智商并不是单一的。

And you find it is that's one of the things that makes the world so interesting and fun is that it is not it's not like IQ is a single Yep.

维度。

Dimension.

有些人以如此独特的方式聪明着。

There are people who are smart in so such unique ways.

是的。

Yeah.

你刚刚给我的回应，就像有人在互联网上骂我是傻瓜时那样。

You just gave me a good response as when somebody calls me an idiot on the Internet.

你知道的？

You know?

先生，聪明的方式有千千万万种。

There's a thousand ways to be smart, sir.

嗯，我可以告诉你，但成功的途径有百万种。

Well, might tell you, yeah, but there are million to be ways to be done.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Right.

我觉得这是马克·吐温的名言。

I feel like that's a Mark Twain quote.

好的。

Okay.

行吧。

Alright.

你带我参观了蓝色起源火箭工厂和位于历史性的卡纳维拉尔角的发射场。

You gave me an amazing tour of Blue Origin rocket factory and launch complex in the historic Cape Canaveral.

新格伦火箭——我们之前讨论过的那枚大型火箭——正在这里建造，并将从这里发射。

That's where New Glenn, the the big rocket we talked about is being built and will launch.

你能解释一下新格伦火箭是什么，并告诉我一些关于它工作原理的有趣技术细节吗？

Can you explain what the New Glenn rocket is and tell me some interesting technical aspects of how it works?

当然。

Sure.

新格伦是一种大型重型运载火箭。

New Glenn is a very large heavy lift launch vehicle.

它能将约45公吨的有效载荷送入近地轨道，属于非常庞大的级别。

It'll take about 45 metric tons to LEO, very very large class.

它的推力大约是土星五号火箭的一半，略多于一半。

It's about half the thrust, a little more than half the thrust of the Saturn five rocket.

因此，它在发射时的推力约为390万磅。

So it's about 3,900,000 pounds of thrust on lift off.

助推器配备了七台BE-4发动机。

The booster has seven BE four engines.

每台发动机产生的推力略高于55万磅。

The each engine generates a little more than 550,000 pounds of thrust.

发动机使用液化天然气（LNG）作为燃料，液氧（LOX）作为氧化剂。

The engines are fueled by liquid natural gas, liquefied natural gas, LNG, as the fuel and LOX as the oxidizer.

它采用的是富氧分级燃烧循环。

The cycle is an ox rich stage combustion cycle.

这种循环最初是由俄罗斯人开创的。

It's a cycle that was really pioneered by the Russians.

这是一种非常优秀的循环方式。

It's a very good cycle.

这款发动机还将为火神火箭的第一级提供动力，火神火箭是联合发射联盟的火箭。

And that engine is also going to power the first stage of the Vulcan rocket, which is the United Launch Alliance rocket.

然后，新格伦火箭的第二级由两台BE3U发动机提供动力，这是我们的新谢泼德液氢发动机的上面级版本。

Then the second stage of New Glenn is powered by two BE3U engines, which is a upper stage variant of our New Shepard liquid hydrogen engine.

因此，BE3U发动机的推力为160,000磅。

So the BE3U has 160,000 pounds of thrust.

所以两台这样的发动机，总推力为320,000磅。

So two of those, 320,000 pounds of thrust.

氢气是非常优秀的上面级推进剂，因为它具有极高的比冲。

And hydrogen is a very good propellant for upper stages because it has very high ISP.

但在我看来，氢气并不适合作为助推级推进剂，因为那样会使火箭级变得过于庞大。

It's not a great propellant in my view for booster stages because the stages then get physically so large.

氢气具有极高的比冲，但液氢的密度非常低。

Hydrogen has very high ISP, but liquid hydrogen is very is not dense at all.

因此，如果你需要储存数千磅的液氢，你的液氢储罐将会变得非常大。

So to store liquid hydrogen, you know, if you need to store many thousands of pounds of liquid hydrogen, your tanks, your liquid hydrogen tank gets very large.

所以你确实能从更高的比冲中获得更大好处。

So you really you get more benefit from the higher ISP, the specific impulse.

在第二级上，更高的比冲能带来更大优势。

You get more benefit from the higher specific impulse on the second stage.

而这一级携带的推进剂较少，因此不会出现几何尺寸极其庞大的储罐。

And that stage carries less propellant, so you don't get such geometrically gigantic tanks.

德尔塔四号就是一款完全使用氢燃料的运载火箭。

The Delta four is an example of a vehicle that is all hydrogen.

它的助推级也使用氢燃料。

The booster stage is also hydrogen.

我认为这是一款非常有效的火箭，但从来都不是成本效益很高的。

And I think that it's a very effective vehicle, but it never was very cost effective.

所以它在操作上非常强大，但成本效益不高。

So it's operationally very capable, but not very cost effective.

因此，体积大也会增加成本。

So size is also costly.

尺寸越大，成本越高。

Size is costly.

所以这很有趣。

So it's interesting.

火箭都喜欢越大越好。

Rockets love to be big.

是的。

Mhmm.

一切都会表现得更好。

Everything works better.

你这话是什么意思？

What do you mean by that?

你以前跟我提过这个。

You've told me that before.

听起来很壮观，

It sounds epic,

但真的是这样吗？

but was it?

我的意思是，当你观察火箭发动机的物理原理，以及考虑寄生质量时，情况并非如此。比如你有一个航电系统，也就是制导与控制系统。

I mean, when you look at the kind of the physics of rocket engines, and also when you look at parasitic mass, it doesn't if you have let's say you have an avionic system, so you have a guidance and control system.

无论对于巨型火箭还是微型火箭，这个系统的质量和体积都差不多。

That is going to be about the same mass and size for a giant rocket as it is going to be for a tiny rocket.

因此，这种寄生质量在制造小型火箭时影响巨大，但在制造大型火箭时却微不足道。

And so that's just parasitic mass that is very consequential if you're building a very small rocket, but is trivial if you're building a very large rocket.

所以你有寄生质量这个问题。

So you have the parasitic mass thing.

再比如，火箭发动机有涡轮泵。

And then if you look at, for example, rocket engines have turbo pumps.

它们必须将燃料和氧化剂加压到极高的压力，才能注入燃烧室进行燃烧。

They have to pressurize the fuel and the oxidizer up to a very high pressure level in order to inject it into the thrust chamber where it burns.

这些泵，实际上所有旋转机械，都会随着尺寸增大而变得更加高效。

And those pumps, all rotating machines in fact, get more efficient as they get larger.

所以，非常小的涡轮泵制造起来非常具有挑战性。

So really tiny turbo pumps are very challenging to manufacture.

而且，任何类型的间隙，比如壳体和加压燃料的旋转叶轮之间的间隙，

And any kind of gaps, you know, are like between the housing, for example, and the rotating impeller that pressurizes the fuel.

那里必须留有一些间隙。

There has to be some gap there.

你不能让这些部件相互刮擦。

You can't have those parts scraping against one another.

这些间隙会导致效率下降。

And those gaps drive inefficiencies.

所以，如果你有一个非常大的涡轮泵，这些间隙在百分比上就会变得非常小。

And so, you know, if you have a very large turbo pump, those gaps in percentage terms end up being very small.

因此，你会有很多喜欢大型火箭的地方，而对小型火箭则会感到厌恶。

And so there's a bunch of things that you end up loving about having a large rocket and that you end up hating for a small rocket.

但这个规则有一个巨大的例外，那就是制造。

But there's a giant exception to this rule, and it is manufacturing.

所以制造大型结构非常非常具有挑战性。

So manufacturing large structures is very, very challenging.

这真是让人头疼。

It's a pain in the butt.

因此，如果你在制造小型火箭发动机，你可以用手移动所有部件。

And so, you know, it's just you know, if you have if you're making a small rocket engine, you can move all the pieces by hand.

你可以在桌子上组装它。

You could assemble it on a table.

一个人就能完成。

One person can do it.

你不需要起重机、重型吊装设备、专用工具等等。

You don't need cranes and heavy lift operations and tooling and so on and so on.

当你开始建造大型物体、基础设施，比如发射台和所有这些设施时。

When you start building big objects, infrastructure, civil infrastructure, just like the launch pad and the you know, all this.

我们去参观了发射台，带你看了，你能看到它有多么宏伟。

We we went and visited and took you to the launch pad, and you can see it's so monumental.

是的。

Yeah.

确实如此。

It is.

因此，这些事情从工程角度，以及从施工和成本角度来看，都变成了巨大的工程。

And so just these things become major undertakings, both from an engineering point of view, but also from a construction and cost point of view.

甚至发射台的地基。

And even the the foundation of the launch pad.

我的意思是，这是佛罗里达。

I mean, this is Florida.

这不是沼泽地吗？

Like, isn't it like swampland?

那得打多深啊

Like, how deep do At have to

卡纳维拉尔角，是的。

Cape Canaveral Yeah.

大多数发射台都建在海边，因为出于安全考虑，你希望火箭飞越海洋。

Infected most ocean, you know most launch pads are on beaches somewhere in the ocean side because you want to launch over water for safety reasons.

是的。

The yes.

你得打下数十根、数百根桩基，深度要达到50英尺、100英尺甚至150英尺，才能为这些巨大的结构提供足够的承载力，没错。

You have to drive pilings, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens of pilings, you know, 50, a 100, a 150 feet deep to get enough structural integrity for these very large you know, it's it's yes.

这些项目最终都变成了重大的土木工程。

These turn into major civil engineering projects.

我必须说，那个工厂的方方面面都太酷了。

I just have to say everything about that factory is pretty badass.

你提到设备，规模越大，就越显得宏伟。

You said tooling, The bigger it gets, the more the more epic it is.

这确实让它变得宏伟。

It does make it epic.

看它真的很有趣。

It's fun to look at.

这让人感到谦卑

It's It's humbling

因为人类相比之下实在太渺小了。

also because, you know, humans are so small compared to it.

我们正在建造这些庞大的机器，它们将巨大的化学能量压缩在极其紧凑的结构中。

We are building these enormous machines that are harnessing enormous amounts of chemical power, you know, in very, very compact packages.

这真的非同寻常。

It's truly extraordinary.

但还有各种不同的部件和你所知道的所涉及的材料。

But then there's all the different components and that you you know, the materials involved.

你能描述一下火箭所用材料中有什么特别之处吗？它必须尽可能轻，同时还要能承受高温和恶劣环境。

Is there something interesting that you can describe about the materials that's comprised of the rocket so it has to be as light as possible, I guess, whilst withstanding the heat and the harsh conditions.

是的

Yeah.

我有时会跟遇到的其他火箭工程师玩一个小游戏：哪些东西会让上世纪六十年代的工程师感到震惊？

I play a little kind of game sometimes with other rocket people that I run into where so what are the things that would amaze the nineteen sixties engineers?

嗯。

Mhmm.

比如，有什么变化？

Like, what's changed?

因为是的。

Because Yeah.

令人惊讶的是，火箭技术的一些重大成就并没有改变。

Surprisingly, some of rocketry's greatest hits have not changed.

他们仍然能立即认出我们今天做的很多东西，这正是他们在六十年代开创的。

They are still they would recognize immediately a lot of what we do today, and it's exactly what they pioneered back in the sixties.

但有一些事情已经改变了。

But a few things have changed.

你知道，碳复合材料的使用今天大不相同了。

You know, the use of carbon composites is is very different today.

你知道，我们现在可以制造非常精密的设备——你见过我们的碳纤维缠绕机，它能制造巨大的整流罩。

You know, we can build very sophisticated you saw our carbon tape laying machine that builds the giant fairings.

我们可以用碳复合材料制造出这些极其轻盈、刚性极强的整流罩结构，这是他们当年根本无法想象的。

And we can build these incredibly light, very stiff fairing structures out of carbon composite material that they could not have dreamed of.

我的意思是，这种材料的效率和结构效率远高于任何金属材料或其他材料。

I mean, the the efficiency, the structural efficiency of that material is so high compared to any, you know, metallic material you might use or anything else.

所以这是第一点。

So that's one.

铝锂合金以及摩擦搅拌焊接铝锂合金的能力。

Aluminum lithium and the ability to friction stir weld aluminum lithium.

你还记得我给你展示过的摩擦搅拌焊接技术吗？

Do you remember the friction stir welding that I showed you?

这是一种了不起的技术。

This is a remarkable technology.

这项技术几十年前就被发明了，但直到最近二三十年才变得非常实用。

Was invented decades ago, but has become very practical over just the last couple of decades.

它不是用热量来焊接两块金属，而是直接将两块金属搅拌融合在一起。

And instead of using heat to weld two pieces of metal together, it literally stirs the two pieces.

有一个针以特定速度旋转，你将这个针放在想要焊接的两块金属板之间，然后以非常精确的速度移动它。它并不靠加热材料来焊接，而是因摩擦产生少量热量，但并不多。

There's a pin that rotates at a certain rate and you put that pin between the two plates of metal that you want to weld together and then you move it at a very precise speed And instead of heating the material it heats it a little bit because of friction, but not very much.

在完成摩擦搅拌焊接后，你几乎可以立即触摸材料，它只是微微发热。

You can literally immediately after welding with stir friction welding, you can touch the material and it's just barely warm.

它实际上是将分子搅拌在一起。

It's it literally stirs the molecules together.

这非常了不起。

It's quite extraordinary.

温度相对较低，而我猜高温会使材料出现弱点。

Relatively low temperature, and I guess high temperature is what makes them the the that's the weak that makes it a weak point.

没错。

Exactly.

在传统焊接技术中，无论材料本身的强度特性如何，焊接处往往会形成薄弱区域。

So in with traditional with traditional welding techniques, you may have whatever the underlying strength characteristics of the material are, you end up with weak regions where you weld.

而通过摩擦搅拌焊接，焊缝的强度与母材完全相当。

And with friction stir welding, the welds are just as strong as the bulk material.

所以它真的让你能够做到，比如你在建造一个加压罐时，像为我们的助推级建造一个大型液化天然气罐。

So it really allows you and so because when you're you know, let's say you're building a tank you're gonna pressurize, you know, a large, you know, liquid natural gas tank for our for our booster stage, for example.

如果你用传统方法焊接，你就得调整焊缝边缘的尺寸和这些部件的厚度，以补偿焊接造成的损伤，这会大大增加油箱的重量。

You know, if you are welding that with traditional methods, you have to size those weld lands, the thickness of those pieces with that knockdown for whatever damage you're doing with the weld, and that's gonna add a lot of weight to that tank.

我的意思是，仅看整流罩，它所呈现的复杂形状就是这样，而且。

I mean, even just looking at the fairings, the result of that, the the complex shape that it takes and Yeah.

而且，它要完成的功能其实非常惊人，因为有些人不知道它位于火箭顶部，是设计来分离的。

And, like, what it's supposed to do is is kind of incredible because some people don't know it's on top of the rocket, it's gonna fall apart.

这是它的任务，但它在需要时必须保持坚固。

That's its task, but it has to stay strong sometimes

是的。

Yes.

然后在需要时消失。

And then disappear when it needs to.

没错。

That's right.

这是一项非常困难的任务。

Which is a very difficult task.

是的。

Yes.

当你需要某物在必须完全失效之前保持100%的完整性时，它必须一直连接到准备分离的那一刻。

When you need something that needs to have 100% integrity until it needs to have 0% integrity, it needs to stay attached until it's ready to go away.

当它分离时，必须彻底消失。

And then when it goes away, it has to go away completely.

你用爆炸装置来实现这一点。

You use explosive charges for that.

因此，这是在需要时分离结构的一种非常可靠的方式。

And so it's a very robust way of separating structure when you need to.

爆炸。

Exploding.

对。

Yeah.

一点点炸药，就能直接切断整个连接。

Little tiny bits of explosive material, and it just it'll sever the whole connection.

所以如果你想从100%的结构完整性瞬间变为零，那就用炸药。

So if you wanna go from 100% structural integrity to zero as fast as possible, it's explosives.

用炸药。

Use explosives.

这整个东西简直太酷了。

Entirety of this thing is so badass.

好的。

Okay.

所以我们回到两个阶段。

So we're back to the two stages.

第一级是可重复使用的。

So the the first stage is reusable.

是的。

Yeah.

第二级是一次性的。

Second stage is expendable.

第二级使用液氢和液氧，因此我们可以利用更高的比冲。

Second stage is liquid hydrogen, liquid oxygen, so we could take advantage of the higher specific impulse.

第一级在海洋中的着陆平台上着陆，返回后进行维护，为下一次任务做准备。

The the first stage lands downrange on a landing platform in the ocean, comes back for maintenance, and get ready to do the next mission.

我的意思是，问题有一百万个，但第二级也有实现可重复使用的方法吗？

I mean, there's a million questions, but also, is there a path towards reusability for the second stage?

有的，我们知道怎么做。

There is, and we know how to do that.

目前，我们专注于制造第二级，使其尽可能便宜。

Right now, we're gonna work on manufacturing that second stage to make it as inexpensive as possible.

对于第二级，大致有两种路径。

Sort of two paths for a second stage.

一种是让它可重复使用，另一种是竭尽全力降低成本，以便可以负担得起将其耗尽。

Make it reusable or work really hard to make it inexpensive so you can afford to expend it.

而且这种权衡实际上并不明显哪个更好。

And that trade is actually not obvious which one is better.

即使是成本方面，甚至是时间方面，成本也是如此。

Even in terms of cost, even like time Even in terms of cost.

我谈的是成本。

I'm talking about cost.

你知道吗，进入轨道的航天飞行已经是一个解决了的问题。

Is it you know, spaceflight getting into orbit is a solved problem.

我们在五十年代和六十年代就已经解决了这个问题。

We solved it back in, you know, the fifties and sixties.

你这让它听起来太简单了。

You're making it sound easy.

唯一有趣的问题是大幅降低进入轨道的成本，如果你能做到这一点，就能开启大量新的可能性，让许多初创公司和其他人都能参与其中。

The only thing that the only interesting problem is dramatically reducing the cost of access to orbit, which is if you can do that, you open up a bunch of new, you know, endeavors that lots of startup companies everybody else can do.

因此，我们的目标之一就是成为这一行业的一部分，降低进入轨道的成本，从而迎来一个太空探索的复兴与黄金时代，让每个人都能从事各种有趣的太空事业。

So that's we really that's our one of our missions is to, you know, be part of this industry and lower the cost to orbit so that there can be, you know, a kind of a renaissance, golden age of people doing all kinds of interesting things in space.

我喜欢你说的，进入轨道是个已经解决的问题。

I like how you said getting to orbit is a solved problem.

唯一有趣的事情就是降低成本。

It's just the only interesting thing is reducing the cost.

你能用这种方式描述人类文明面临的每一个问题吗？

You know you can describe every single problem facing human civilization that way?

物理学家会说，所有问题都已经被解决了。

Physicists will say, everything is a solved problem.

我们已经解决了所有问题。

We've solved everything.

剩下的，就像卢瑟福说的，只是集邮而已。

The rest is just well, as the Rutherford said that, it's just stamp collecting.

最伟大的创新、发明和智慧，其实都体现在成本降低的阶段。

There is just a detailed Some of the greatest innovations and inventions and, you know, brilliance is in that cost reduction stage.

对吧？

Right?

你有着长期致力于降低成本的经历。

And you've you've had a long career of cost reduction.

当然。

For sure.

当你想想，降低成本到底意味着什么？

And if, you know, when you what does cost reduction really mean?

它意味着发明一种更好的方法。

It means inventing a better way.

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Exactly.

对吧？

Right?

当你发明了一种更好的方法时，你就让整个世界变得更富裕。

And when you invent a better way, you make the whole world richer.

所以，你知道，不管那是多少年前，有人发明了犁。

So, you know, whatever it was, I don't know how many thousands of years ago, somebody invented the plow.

嗯。

Mhmm.

当他们发明犁的时候，他们让整个世界变得更富裕，因为他们让农业变得更便宜。

And when they invented the plow, they made the whole world richer because they made farming less expensive.

所以，发明更好的方法是一件大事。

And so it it is a big deal to to invent better ways.

世界就是这样变得更富裕的。

That's how the world gets richer.

那么，在努力实现新格伦火箭首次发射的过程中，你在制造和工程方面面临哪些最大的挑战？

So what are some of the the biggest challenges on the manufacturing side, on the engineering side that you're facing in working to get to the first launch of New Glenn?

首次发射是一回事。

The first launch is one thing.

我们将在2024年，也就是今年内完成它。

We'll and we'll do that in 2024 coming up in this coming year.

真正更大的挑战是确保我们的工厂能够高效地实现规模化生产。

The real thing that's the bigger challenge is making sure that our factory is efficiently manufacturing at rate.

也就是规模化生产。

So rate production.

假设你想每年发射24次新格伦火箭，

So consider if you want to launch New Glenn, you know, 24 times a year.

你需要每月制造两个上面级，因为它们是一次性的，也就是说每两周就要完成一个。

You need to manufacture a upper stage, since they're expendable, every twice a month, you need to do one every two weeks.

因此，你的所有制造设施、流程、检验技术、验收测试以及所有环节都必须达到规模化运行的水平。

So you need to be you need to have all of your manufacturing facilities and processes and inspection techniques and acceptance tests and everything operating at rate.

规模化制造的难度至少不亚于最初设计火箭本身。

And rate manufacturing is at least as difficult as designing the vehicle in the first place.

同样的道理。

And the same thing.

每个上面级都配备两台BE3U发动机。

So every every upper stage has two BE3U engines.

所以这些发动机，如果你每个月要发射两次，就需要每月四台发动机。

So those engines, you know, you need if you're going to launch the vehicle twice a month, you need four engines a month.

所以你每周都需要一台发动机。

So you need an engine every week.

因此，这些发动机必须能够按速率生产。

So you need to be that engine needs to be being produced at rate.

而且要实现这一点，你需要完成所有相关的工作。

And and that's a and there's all of the things that you need to do that.

合适的机床、夹具、人员、工艺等等。

All the right machine tools, all the right fixtures, the right people, process, etcetera.

制造首件是一回事。

So it's one thing to build a first article.

对吧？

Right?

所以，为了首次发射新格伦号，你需要生产出首件。

So that's, know, to launch New Glenn for the first time, you need to produce a first article.

但那并不是最难的部分。

But that's not the hard part.

最难的部分是幕后为建立能够批量生产新格伦火箭的工厂所做的一切工作。

The hard part is everything that's going on behind the scenes to build a factory that can produce New Glenn's at rate.

所以第一个的生产方式要能支持第二个、第三个、第四个、第五个的生产，还有第二个你

So the first one is produced in a way that's enables the production of the second, third, and the fourth, and the fifth, and the second You

你可以把首件产品看作是推动整个批量制造技术前进的动力。

could think of the first article as kind of pushing it it pushes all of the rate manufacturing technology along.

换句话说，它实际上是一个测试件，用来检验你的制造技术是否可行。

You know, in other words, it's kind of the, you know, it's the test article in a way that's testing out your your manufacturing technologies.

制造才是最大的挑战。

The manufacturing is the big challenge.

是的。

Yes.

我的意思是，我不想让人觉得其中任何一部分是容易的。

I mean, I don't want to make it sound like any of it is easy.

我的意思是，设计发动机和所有这些工作的人，确实每一件事都很困难。

I mean, the people who are designing the engines and all this, all of it is hard for sure.

但目前的挑战是全力以赴实现规模化制造，并以高效的方式做到这一点。

But the but the challenge right now is driving really hard to get to is to get to rate manufacturing and to do that in an efficient way.

再次回到我们的成本问题。

Again, kind of back to our cost point.

如果你以低效的方式实现规模化制造，那你其实并没有真正解决成本问题，可能也没有真正推动技术进步。

If you get to rate manufacturing in an inefficient way, you haven't really solved the cost problem and maybe you haven't really moved the state of the art forward.

所有这些都必须围绕推动技术前沿展开。

All this has to be about moving the state of the art forward.

有更容易做的生意。

There are easier easier businesses to do.

我总是告诉人们，如果你只是想赚钱，比如开一家咸味零食公司之类的，你知道，你

I always tell people, look, if you are trying to make money, you know, like, start a salty snack food company or something, you know, you

把这个想法记下来。

You write that idea down.

比如，做一批莱克·弗里德曼牌薯片。

Like, make the Lex Fridman potato chips.

你知道的，好吧。

You know, this Okay.

别这么说。

Don't don't say it.

别人会拿走这个点子的。

People are going to steal it.

但确实很难。

But, yeah, it's hard.

你明白我的意思吗？

You see what I'm saying?

这个行业的每一件事都不容易，但自有其回报。

It's like there's nothing easy about this business and but but it's its own reward.

这很迷人，值得去做，很有意义。所以，我不是想贬低薯片公司，但我认为它们没那么有意义。

It's it's it's fascinating, it's worthwhile, it's meaningful, And so, you know, I don't want to pick on salty snack food companies, but I think it's less meaningful.

你知道，归根结底，你并不会成就什么了不起的事情，是的。

You know, at the end of the day, you're not going to have accomplished something amazing Yeah.

即使你因此赚了很多钱。

There's even if you do make a lot of money out of it.

对。

Yeah.

太空探索这个所谓的商业，本质上是完全不同的。

There's something fundamentally different about the quote unquote business of space exploration.

是的。

Yeah.

当然了。

It's a For sure.

这是人类的一项宏伟事业。

It's a grand project of humanity.

没错。

Yes.

这是人类的一项伟大挑战。

It's one of humanity's grand challenges.

尤其是当你展望登月、登陆火星、建造巨大的奥尼尔殖民地，并解锁所有这些可能性时——我可能活不到看到这些成果的那一天。

And especially as you look at going to the moon and going to Mars and building giant O'Neill colonies and unlocking all the you know, I won't live long enough to see the fruits of this.

但这些成果来自于开辟通往太空的道路，建立基础设施。

But the fruits of this come from building a road to space, getting the infrastructure.

我给你打个比方。

I'll give you an analogy.

当我创办亚马逊时，我不需要自己开发支付系统。

When I started Amazon, I didn't have to develop a payment system.

它已经存在了。

It already existed.

它叫做信用卡。

It was called the credit card.

我不需要自己开发物流系统来配送包裹。

I didn't have to develop a transportation system to deliver the packages.

它已经存在了。

It already existed.

它被称为邮政服务、皇家邮政、德国邮政等等。

It was called the postal service and Royal Mail and Deutsche Post and so on.

所以所有这些繁重的基础设施都已经就位，我可以站在它们的肩膀上。

So all this heavy lifting infrastructure was already in place and I could stand on its shoulders.

这就是为什么当你回顾互联网时，顺便说一下，另一个巨大的基础设施在1994年左右就已经存在了。

And that's why when you look at the Internet, you know and by the way, another giant piece of infrastructure that was around in the early I'm taking you back to like 1994.

人们当时使用拨号调制解调器，而互联网是搭在长途电话网络上的。

People were using dial up modems and heavy it was piggybacking on top of the long distance phone network.

这就是互联网的运作方式，人们通过它访问服务器等等。

That's how the Internet that's, you know, how people were accessing servers and so on.

如果当时没有这些基础设施，要部署它们需要数千亿美元的资本支出。

And that again, if if that hadn't existed, it would have been hundreds of billions of CapEx to to put that out there.

没有任何初创公司能完成这件事。

No startup company could have done that.

因此，如果你看看过去二十年互联网领域的活力，问题就在于，你看，两个住在宿舍的学生就能创办一家成功的互联网公司，做出惊人的成就，因为他们不必去建造重型基础设施。

And so the problem, you know, you see in if you look at the dynamism in the Internet space over the last twenty years, it's because, you know, you see, like, two kids in a dorm room could start an Internet company that could be successful and do amazing things because they didn't have to build heavy infrastructure.

这些基础设施已经存在了。

It was already there.

这正是我想做的。

And that's what I want to do.

我把我从亚马逊赚到的钱拿来建设重型基础设施，让下一代——我的孩子和他们的孩子——能够利用这些基础设施。

I take, you know, my Amazon winnings and use that to build heavy infrastructure so that the next generation, you know, my the generation that's my children and their children, these, you know, those generations can then use that heavy infrastructure.

那时就会有太空创业者在宿舍里起步。

Then there'll be space entrepreneurs who start in their dorm room.

是的。

Yeah.

当你看到一家极具价值的太空公司是从宿舍里起步的，那就是一个成功的标志，说明我们已经建好了足够的基础设施，让创造力和想象力得以真正释放。

Like, that that will be a marker of success when you can have a really valuable space company started in a dorm room, then we know that we've built enough infrastructure so that ingenuity and imagination can really be unleashed.

我觉得这非常令人兴奋。

I find that very exciting.

当然，孩子们就会把这一切坚实的基础设施视为理所当然。

As they will, of course, as kids do, take all of this hard infrastructure ability for granted.

当然。

Of course.

这正是企业家精神。

Which is That's entrepreneurial spirit.

这是一位发明家最大的梦想，是的。

That's a an inventor's greatest dream Yeah.

他们的发明如此成功，以至于有一天人们会将其视为理所当然。

Is that their inventions are so successful that they are one day taken for granted.

没人再把亚马逊当作一项发明了。

You know, nobody thinks of Amazon as an invention anymore.

也没人把客户评价当作一项发明了。

Nobody thinks of customer reviews as an invention.

我们率先推出了客户评价，但现在它们已经变得如此普遍。

We pioneered customer reviews, but now they're so commonplace.

一键购物也是如此。

Same thing with one click shopping and so on.

是的。

Yeah.

但这是一种赞美。

But that's a compliment.

这就是你发明的东西，被如此多的人广泛而有益地使用，以至于他们把它视为理所当然。

That's how, you know, you invent something that's so used, so beneficially used by so many people that they take it for granted.

我不觉得没人会这样想。

I don't know about nobody.

每次使用亚马逊时，我仍然感到惊叹。

Every time I use Amazon, I'm still amazed.

这到底是怎么做到的？

How does this work?

物流系统。

The logistics.

的的

The the

嗯，你这样说明你是个非常好奇的探索者。

Well, you you that that proves you're a very curious explorer.

好的。

Alright.

好的。

Alright.

回到火箭的话题。

Back to rockets.

时间线。

Timeline.

你提到2024年。

You said 2024.

就目前情况来看，首次试射和‘逃生探索者’登陆火星的任务仍然可能吗？

As it stands now, are both the first test launch and the launch of the Escapade Explorers to Mars still possible?

2024年？

In 2024?

是的。

Yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

我觉得是的。

I think so.

毫无疑问，第一次发射肯定会有，至于Escapade是否能赶上，我们还得看看。

For sure, the first launch, and then we'll see if if Escapade goes on that or not.

我觉得第一次发射肯定能成，也希望Escapade能一起。

I think that the first launch for sure, and I hope Escapade too.

希望？

Hope?

我只是不确定最终会安排哪个任务。

Well, I just don't know which mission is is actually gonna be slated on.

是的。

Yeah.

所以我们也有一些其他可能搭载在首次任务上的载荷。

So we also have other things that might go on that first mission.

哦，我明白了。

Oh, I got it.

但你还是对发射计划持乐观态度，对吧？

But you're optimistic that the launches will still

哦，对于新格伦火箭的首次发射，我非常乐观，相信会在2024年进行，但我无法100%确定首次发射会搭载哪个有效载荷。

Oh, the first launch I'm very optimistic that the first launch of New Glenn will be in 2024, and I'm just not a 100% certain what payload will be on that first launch.

你为此感到紧张吗？

Are you nervous about it?

你在开玩笑吗？

Are you kidding?

我对此非常紧张。

I'm extremely nervous about it.

天啊。

Oh, man.

百分之百。

A 100%.

每次我去观看新谢泼德号或其他飞行器的发射时，我总是会感到紧张。

I've you know, every every launch I go to, you know, for New Shepard, for other vehicles too, I'm always nervous for these launches.

但当然了。

But, yes, for sure.

第一次发射却一点都不紧张，那恐怕是有点不正常了，我觉得。

A first launch, to have no nervousness about that would be, you know, some sign of derangement, I think.

所以。

So.

我得去现场观看发射，那场面真的很壮观。

Well, I got to visit the launch, but it's pretty I mean, it's epic.

我们已经进行了大量的地面测试和模拟。

You know, we have done a tremendous amount of ground testing, a tremendous amount of simulation.

所以，你知道，我们可能在飞行中遇到的许多问题都已经解决了。

So, you know, a lot of the problems that we might find in flight have been resolved.

但有些问题只有在飞行中才能发现。

But there are some problems you can only find in flight.

所以，你懂的，祈祷好运吧。

So, you know, cross your fingers.

我向你保证，不管发生什么，你观看时都会觉得有趣。

I guarantee you, you'll you'll have fun watching it no matter what happens.

100%。

100%.

当它完全组装好后，就会升空。

When the thing is fully assembled, it comes up.

是的。

Yeah.

运输起竖装置，就是起竖装置。

The transporter erector The erector.

对于这种规模的火箭，仅运输起竖装置就已经非常了不起了。

Just transporter erector for a rocket of this scale Yeah.

这真是非同寻常。

Is extraordinary.

那是一台了不起的机器。

That's an incredible machine.

运载火箭水平运输出去，然后逐渐

Vehicle travels out horizontally and then kind

是的。

of Yeah.

你知道的，竖立起来，

You know, comes up and

需要几个小时吗？

Over a few hours?

是的。

Yeah.

看着真美。

It's a beautiful thing to watch.

说到这个，如果这让你紧张的话，我不知道你是否还记得，你曾乘坐新谢泼德号执行过它的首次载人飞行。

Speaking of which, if that makes you nervous, I don't know if you remember, but you were aboard New Shepard on its first crewed flight.

那次体验怎么样？

How was that experience?

你当时害怕吗？

Were you were you terrified then?

说来奇怪，我并没有。

You know, strangely, I wasn't.

你知道，你乘坐

You know, I You ride

火箭。

the rocket.

确实如此。

It's true.

好的。

Okay.

我看过其他人乘坐火箭，但比起我自己在火箭里时，我反而更紧张。

I've watched other people riding the rocket, and I'm more nervous than when I was inside the rocket myself.

当我告诉妈妈我要参加第一次飞行时，这是一场很难开口的对话。

It was a difficult conversation to have with my mother when I told her I was gonna go on the first one.

不仅我要去，我还打算带上我弟弟。

And not only was I gonna go, but I was gonna bring my brother too.

跟妈妈谈这种事真的很困难。

This is a tough conversation to have with a mom.

当我告诉她时，她沉默了很久。

And There's a long pause when

你告诉她的时候。

you told her.

她问：‘你们两个都去？’

She's like, both of you?

这是一次难以置信的体验，我们在舱内笑个不停，你知道的，我们一点也不紧张。

It was an incredible experience, and we were we were laughing in inside the capsule and, you know, we're not nervous.

地面上的人为我们非常紧张。

The people on the ground were very nervous for us.

这次经历中最情感强烈的一部分，其实发生在飞行之前。

It was actually one of the most emotionally powerful parts of the experience was not happened even before the flight.

凌晨四点半，我和弟弟正准备前往发射场，劳伦将用她的直升机送我们去，我们正准备出发。

At 04:30 in the morning, brother and I are getting ready to go to the launch site, and Lauren is gonna take us there in her helicopter, we're getting ready to leave.

我们走出德克萨斯州西部发射设施旁的牧场房屋。

And we go outside outside the ranch house there in West Texas where the launch facility is.

我们的家人——我的孩子们、我弟弟的孩子们、我们的父母和亲密朋友——都聚集在那里，向我们道别。

And all of our family, my kids and my brother's kids and our, you know, our parents and close friends are assembled there and they're saying goodbye to us.

但他们似乎觉得，也许这是在和我们永别。

But they're kind of saying, maybe they think they're saying goodbye to us forever.

是的。

Mhmm.

而且，我们可能没意识到这一点，但从他们的脸上明显能看出他们有多紧张，那种情绪是真实的。

And, you know, we might not have felt that way, it was obvious from their faces how nervous they were that they felt that way.

这感觉非常强烈，因为它让我们仿佛置身于一场十周年的追悼会。

And it was sort of powerful because it allowed us to see it was almost like a ten year old memorial service or something.

在那一刻，你能真切感受到自己被多么深爱着，那真的太棒了。

Like, you could feel how loved you were in that moment, and it was it was really amazing.

是的。

Yeah.

而且，这本身也有一种史诗般的气魄。

And, I mean, there's just a epic nature to it too.

上升过程，以及在失重状态下的漂浮，我告诉你一件非常有趣的事。

The ascent, the floating in zero gravity I'll tell you something very interesting.

失重的感觉非常自然。

Zero gravity feels very natural.

我不确定这是否是因为我们，你知道的，就像回到了子宫一样，或者

I don't know if it's because we're, you know, it's like return to the womb You're or

一个外星人，但我想那就是你刚才说的意思。

an alien, but that's I think that's what I think that's what you just said.

在失重状态下感觉非常自然。

It feels so natural to be in zero g.

真的很有意思。

Was really interesting.

当人们谈论全景效应、从太空中俯瞰地球时，我强烈地感受到了那种情绪。

And then when people talk about the overview effect and seeing Earth from space, I had that feeling very powerfully.

我想每个人都感受到了。

I think everyone did.

你会看到地球是多么脆弱。

You see how fragile the Earth is.

如果你不是环保主义者，这会让你成为其中之一。

If you're not an environmentalist, it will make you one.

吉姆·洛弗尔有一句名言，你知道，他从太空中回望地球时意识到：你不是在死后去天堂，而是在出生时就进入了天堂。

The great Jim Lovell quote, you know, he looked back at the Earth from space and he said he realized, you don't go to heaven when you die, you go to heaven when you're born.