Aaron Sorkin: Well There You Have It (Re-Release)

天哪。

Oh, no.

我在听呢。

I'm listen.

你说得对。

We you're right.

这个剧组简直像27个洋基队球员。

That the cast is the 27 Yankees.

我们当时根本想不到，你们这群演员之间的化学反应这么强——你和所有人，艾莉森和所有人，马丁和所有人，约翰和所有人。

And what you what you can't predict, what we couldn't predict was the chemistry on it in the cast between you and everyone, between Allison and everyone, Martin and everyone, John and everyone.

看到这一切真是太棒了。

And that was an amazing thing to see.

让我感到压力的是，要养活这么多人。

What was anxiety inducing for me was the number of mouths to feed.

你知道，就像一支球队里有沙克和科比，篮球根本不够分。

You know, that when you have Shaq and Kobe on the same team, there's just aren't enough basketballs.

是的

Yeah.

当然了

For sure.

而且呢，我就想着得给每个人讲个好故事，每集都得有几场精彩的戏，心里就直打鼓。

And that I you know, just wanting to give everyone a good story, a great couple of scenes in every episode, and feeling like, oh, shit.

你知道的，像萨姆这种，这周就遇到这种情况。

You know, Sam was like this week, that kind of thing.

不管带球到哪儿，身边都是能投空位三分的高手，篮球的比喻到这儿就结束了。

Because anywhere you went, with the ball was somebody who can hit an open jump shot, and now I'm done with the basketball analogy.

在篮球术语里，空位投篮指的是需要极强技术才能把球投进篮筐的出手。

Open jump shot is a shot in the basketball parlance where it requires a tremendous ability to get it into the cylinder.

没错。

That's correct.

那就是艾莉森·珍妮。

That's Allison Janney.

那就是艾莉森·简尼。

That is Allison Janney.

她确实能投出那种空位跳投。

She can hit that open j.

你不知道吗？我早就知道她会把所有能拿的奖都拿一遍。

Didn't you know I I knew she was gonna win every award known to mankind.

我给她起了个外号。

I I nicknamed her.

虽然没叫开，但我叫她‘奖杯收割机’，因为她肯定会把奖杯摆满壁炉台。

It didn't really stick, but I nicknamed her hardware because she was gonna have so much hardware on that mantle.

而且真的就是这样。

And and and it's true.

甚至比我当初想的还要夸张。

I mean, even more so than I ever imagined.

我们选艾莉森的时候，我只看过她演过一个角色——在五颜六色的楼梯上摔了一跤。

When we cast Alison, I had only ever seen her do one thing, trip on a flight of stairs in primary colors.

哇哦。

Wow.

她和特拉沃尔塔演过一个短暂的场景，扮演一位老师。

She had a quick scene with Travolta where she plays a teacher.

特拉沃尔塔演的那个克林顿角色在学校做过一件事，后来我们才知道他要和她发生关系。

Travolta's character, his Clinton character had done a thing at a school, and we see later he's gonna sleep with her.

但我们只看到她走上楼梯，然后不小心从楼梯上摔了下来。

But we just see her walking upstairs, and she just kind of trips down the stairs.

所以我当时就决定，一定要让她来试镜《白宫风云》。

So I knew I wanted her to read for The West Wing.

她表现得太出色了，我简直太高兴了，她不仅为我们剧集拿下了这么多奖，之后的每一部作品也斩获无数荣誉，当然还包括她的奥斯卡奖。

And she was phenomenal, and I'm just thrilled with the amount of hardware that she's picked up not just for our show, but for everything since, obviously, including her Oscar.

而且她还没停下脚步呢。

And and she's not done yet.

你懂的。

You know?

她还没发挥出自己最大的潜力。

She hasn't done the best she's gonna do yet.

你们所有人也都一样。

None of you have.

你知不知道，当年她首次登台演戏的时候，我就在她高中体育馆的观众席上？

Did you ever did you know that I was I was in the audience of her high school gymnasium when she made her acting debut?

我真不知道这事。

I did not know that.

给我们讲讲那段经历吧。

Tell us about that.

其实我和艾丽丝一直到剧集开播好几年后，才把所有线索拼在一起。

I so I we and Alice and I only did the math and put it all together years into the show.

然后我就想，你不是来自代顿吗？

And I was like, you're from Dayton.

我也是代顿人。

I'm from Dayton.

你上的是哪所高中？

Where'd you go to high school?

迈阿密谷高中。

Miami Valley High School.

哦，是吗。

Oh, yeah.

我想起来了。

I remember.

我没去那儿上过学。

I didn't go there.

那可是所挺高档的学校。

That was the fancy, like, fancy school.

我就去过一次。

And I was only there once.

我在他们的体育馆里，那会儿他们正在演《滑稽的意外》。

I I was in their gymnasium, and they were putting on a production of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum.

艾莉森用那双大眼睛看着我，说她演过那部剧，那是她的第一次登台演出。

And Alison looked at me with those big eyes and said, I was in that play, and it was my acting debut.

天哪。

Oh god.

我的天。

Holy cow.

这几率也太小了吧。

What are the what are the odds?

这种事发生的概率简直低得离谱。

The odds are very long, on that.

你知道吗？艾莉森以前可是打算成为世界级花滑选手的。

Did you know that Allison was on her way to being, like, a serious world class figure skater?

结果出了件可怕的事。

Well Something terrible happened.

她父母当时在后院办派对，屋里电话响了，艾莉森跑进去接，结果撞上了厨房的玻璃门。

Her her parents were having, like, a backyard party, And the phone rang inside the house, and Alison ran to get it and went through a glass door into the kitchen.

她当时流了很多血，花样滑冰生涯也就此结束，真挺遗憾的。

And she bled a lot, and that was the end of her figure skating career, which I'm sorry about.

但如果这件事最终让她走上了演员这条路，那从结果来看，我算是赢了。

But if it if that's what got her to be an actress, then in the end, I won.

这让你对她在《我，托尼娅》里的表演有了全新的理解。

That you that brings a whole new meaning to her performance in I, Tonya.

没有。

No.

没错。

That's right.

我都没往那方面想过，看着

I hadn't even thought of that, watching

我，塔尼娅。

I, Tanya.

我都没想过这一点。

I hadn't even thought of that.

是的

Yeah.

确实如此

It really does.

不是吗？

Doesn't it?

天哪

Oh my god.

太棒了

That's amazing.

我都没想过这一点

I hadn't thought of that.

我不禁想，她是不是把那段经历融入到了表演里

I wonder if she channeled that for, like Had to.

对吧？

Right?

她特别反感自己的孩子去滑滑板。

Deeply resents her kid, you know, being the skater.

是啊。

Yeah.

然后就是你的试镜，老兄。

Then there was your audition, my friend.

我本来想问你，因为大家没意识到，凡是以色列人拍的戏，所有人都得试镜，这很正常，而你总是跟他们一起对戏。

I was gonna ask you because the what people don't realize is you, when you when you first of everybody has to read for for anything Aaron does, as they should, and it's I would and and you read with them.

我试镜《萨姆》那会儿，就是跟你对的戏。

I read with you for my audition for Sam.

对。

Yes.

我走进试镜室，看到当天的排期表，一看到你的名字，我就想：你别逗我了。

And when I walked into the casting session and, you know, out the table is the session sheet who's coming in that day, and I saw your name, I said, you gotta be kidding.

首先，罗布根本不会来读戏。

That that first of all, Rob's not gonna read.

再说，罗伯·洛不可能出演这部剧。

And second of all, Rob Lowe can't be in the show.

他是个电影明星。

He's he's a movie star.

他一出场，每场戏的焦点都会被他抢走。

He's he's he's gonna take all the focus in every scene.

这样整个剧的平衡就全乱了。

It's it it'll throw the whole thing out of balance.

你进来之后，一演完转身走出去，我就说：听好了。

And you came in, and as soon as you were done and walked out, I said, listen.

这个角色非你莫属。

He has to play this part.

换别人根本演不了。

Nobody else can do it.

这正是我想说的，非你不可。

That's exactly what I mean, he's gotta do this.

我们非得拿下不可。

We've gotta get it.

这就是你被选中的原因。

That's how you're cast.

这已经成了必须完成的事。

It became an imperative.

说实话，一开始我特别犹豫，因为你知道，演员到了一定阶段，通常都不想再试镜了，这其实很合理。

I well, first of I was so because, you know, as an actor at a certain point, you know, most actors don't wanna audition anymore for good reason.

试镜太让人紧张了。

It's it's nerve racking.

太有压力了。

It's hard.

试镜表现得好，其实和能不能演好角色根本没关系。

Your ability to audition often has no translation to your ability to do the job, actually.

说得太对了。

Exactly right.

而且你有一系列作品可以让我们参考，从而做出某种判断。

And you have a body of work that we can look at and, you know, come some kind of judgment.

但他们把剧本发给我了，我一看，真的，从那以后我再没遇到过这种情况——我读着读着就忍不住说：‘对，就是它了。’

But they sent me this script, and it was I and I and I don't think I've ever had it since, honestly, where I read it, and I was like, oh, yeah.

我是唯一能演这个角色的人。

I'm I'm the only guy I'm the only guy that can play this.

我真觉得可能会有别的版本或改编。

Like, literally thought there'll be other version iterations of it.

当然。

Sure.

别人也能演。

Somebody could do it.

但我一看到剧本，心里就立刻清楚了该怎么演、在哪儿演、为什么这么演。

But I know I knew in my bones immediately how, what, where.

我仿佛一下子看到了整个画面。

I just, like, saw full field of view.

所以我特别期待能来参加试镜。

So I was really excited to come in.

很明显，你一眼就看懂了帕克菲尔德登陆的整个格局。

That it it was clear that you saw the the that you saw the whole board in Parkfield Landing Parlance.

是的。

Yeah.

很明显，你对来参加试镜充满热情。

It was clear that you're excited to come in.

而且顺便说一句，这一点也很重要。

And that, by the way, that is also something.

当你看到像你这样级别的演员，这么乐意来试戏的时候。

When you see an actor, of your stature, very happy to come in and read.

我们可没接到电话说罗伯·洛伊感兴趣，然后我们才说：‘那得让他来试一下。’

It's not like we got a call, saying Rob Lowe is interested, and we said, well, he's gonna need to come in and read.

我第一次听说你对这个角色有兴趣，就是那天我走进房间的时候。

It's the first I knew of your interest in this was when I walked into the room that day.

这简直难以置信。

That's unbelievable.

我从觉得这根本行不通，到觉得这简直是唯一可能成功的方式。

I I went from this couldn't possibly work to this is the only thing that could possibly work.

确实是这样。

That is

就是这种感觉。

have that.

我还记得当时房间里人很多。

I I also remember there were a lot of people in the room.

还有那场重头戏，萨姆把艾莉森·史密斯误当成老师，其实她是利奥的女儿，结果他直接上场了，结尾特别搞笑，全场都笑翻了。

And, you know, it's the big speech where Sam, you know, mistakes, you know, Allison Smith for being a schoolteacher when she's actually Leo's daughter and steps in And it it got a big laugh at the end, and big laugh.

我永远忘不了你转过身，对在场代表高层的人说。

And I'll never forget you turning to whoever was there representing the higher ups.

你当时说：‘我早就跟你们说过，这场戏很好笑。’

And you said, I told you the scene was funny.

你还记得吗？

Do you remember that?

我不记得有这回事。

I don't remember that.

我把你的试镜功劳算到自己头上了。

I took credit for your audition.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

没有。

No.

那其实挺棒的，我当时就想，哦，原来如此。

I it was great because I was like, oh, okay.

因为我觉得这事儿挺搞笑的。

Because I found it funny.

我觉得，能把你的东西演得最好的，是那些天生就能抓住那种轻快幽默感的人，他们做起来特别自然。

I always I mean, I think the people who do your stuff the best are the people who find the effervescent funny stuff, and it comes naturally to them.

对我来说，很明显，虽然内容真实、接地气，但必须得特别搞笑才行。

And it was pat patently clear to me that, you know, obviously, it's real and it's grounded, but it should be fucking hilarious.

你一说这地方好笑，我就意识到，肯定有人看同样的剧本，根本察觉不到哪里好笑。

And when you said it was funny, it was clear to me that there were other people that could read that same scene on the page and not not see where the humor is.

我敢打赌，就是这么回事——别人来试镜时没演好，笑点没出来，结果你就直接放弃了，这事儿在好多层面上都太糟糕了。

I'll bet you that is what happened, that other people had come in and it had not been funny, and then you just parked, this is bad on so many levels, in the pictures.

我得说，我记得很清楚，为《西翼》试镜，是我职业生涯里最有趣的经历之一。

It I remember I have to say, it was it that was that was a career it was it was one of the most fun things in my career, was auditioning for The West Wing.

真的特别有意思。

Really was.

那过程很有挑战性。

It was it was challenging.

我真的

I really

《西翼》也是我人生中最有趣的经历之一。

West Wing was one of the most fun things in mind.

不是的。

No.

我是说，我们后来在《西翼》结束后一起去了伦敦，演了《好人寥寥》。这事知道的人不多。

Well, I mean, we and then, you know, we went and a lot not a lot of people know that we went to London together after The West Wing and did A Few Good Men.

对。

Yeah.

你知道开幕当晚我发生了什么事吗？

Are you aware of what of what happened to me on opening night?

天啊。

God.

不知道。

No.

天啊。

God.

我马上要听什么故事？

What story am I about to hear?

首先，咱们先交代点背景。

Well, first, let's just give some background.

是的。

Yes.

好吧。

Okay.

我们演《好人寥寥》的时候，这剧从来没在伦敦上演过，也没在西区演过。

We did the A Few Good Men had never been in London, never been on the West End.

所以我们就让罗布主演，其他演员都是英国人。

So we did it with Rob starring and an otherwise British cast.

我们在皇家海马克特剧院演出，那是个非常漂亮的剧院，也是王尔德的剧院。

We did it at the Royal Haymarket Theater, a beautiful theater with Oscar Wilde's theater.

接下来我要被吓得够呛。

And now I'm about to get the hell scared out of me.

首演当晚发生了什么？

What happened on opening night?

我当时在场。

I was there.

一切看起来都挺正常的。

Everything seemed fine.

我想后来我跑过去告诉你发生的事时，你可能刚出去抽根烟了。

I think I think later on when I came up to you and told you what had happened, I think you might have stepped out for a cigarette

然后就错过了。

and missed.

有可能。

That's possible.

好吧，事情是这样的。

Well, here's what had happened.

排练的时候有个片段，一直没达到我们想要的笑果。

There had been a moment in rehearsals that had never really gotten the laugh that we all wanted.

那天是首演之夜。

It was opening night.

对不太了解的人说一下，在英国，所有剧评人都会在首演当晚到场。

Now for those of you who don't know, in in England, all the critics come on opening night.

在百老汇，我们会先办几场预演，但结果谁也说不准。

On Broadway, you do what's called previews, and you never know.

有时候一场演出反响很好，可两周后呢？你根本不知道剧评人什么时候会来。

They could be you could have one on one night, and two weeks later, every you don't know when the critics

他们通常会提前四五天就来，好赶在首演前把评论稿写好。

coming four or five nights before opening so that they can have their pieces ready for opening night.

没错。

Yes.

但你说得对。

But you're right.

在西区，剧评人还是全都集中在首演当晚出现。

In in the West End, they they still all come on opening night.

这让人压力大得不得了。

Which makes it tremendously stressful.

真的， stakes 高得吓人。

Like, it's the stakes are massive.

是的。

Yeah.

当时有个特别不起眼的瞬间。

And there was one it was such an innocuous moment.

我都想不起来具体是什么了。

I can't even remember what it was.

但第一次，那个小片段突然奏效了，观众有了反应。

But for the first time, this little mini moment worked, and it got a reaction.

我高兴得不行，结果可能就没像平时那样专心了。

And I felt so good about it that I think I allowed myself to maybe not concentrate as well as I should have.

下一秒我就发现，我正站在台上控诉一个演员，看他脸色突然发白，我才意识到自己跳了三页。

And the next thing I know, I'm I'm I have an actor on the on the prose in the I'm prosecuting him, and I see his face go white, and I realize I've jumped three pages ahead.

你知道这件事吗？

Did you know this?

我等了一阵子才跟你说这个。

I waited a while before telling me that.

我完全不记得有这回事了。

I just don't remember anything about that.

我也不记得了。

I don't

我完全不记得有这回事了。

remember anything about that.

好吧。

Okay.

我是认真的。

So But I'm not kidding.

这事儿百分百是真的。

I'm this is 100% true story.

我会把它忘掉的。

And I'll forget it.

时间好像变慢了。

Time slows down.

其实不用我多说，你也知道。

Now as you I don't need to tell you.

这可是你亲笔写的。

You fucking wrote it.

你心里清楚得很。

You understand this.

得交代不少背景信息。

There's a lot of exposition that needs to be told.

对。

Mhmm.

对。

Mhmm.

是的。

Mhmm.

直接删掉两页。

Just cut two pages out of it.

所以我心想，好吧。

So I I I'm like, okay.

行了。

Alright.

放松点。

Chill.

稳住。

Get it together.

放松点。

Chill.

我当时真的特别投入，简直投入过头了，就是那个特别长的走上台的过程。

And I was like so I really committed, like, uber committed, like, over committed to this really long walk across the stage.

然后我盯着观众席好长时间，心里盘算着到底该干什么。

And then this really long look out into the audience as I was trying to figure out what the fuck I was gonna do.

现场气氛特别紧张，因为很明显这是故意设计的表演。

And the tension was, like, thick because it was clearly an acting choice.

我当时脑子很清楚，完全清醒着。

And I was clearly had my faculties.

然后我回到了台上。

And then I came back

这时候没人能帮你，因为台上当时人太多了。

no one who can come to your help, at this point because there are a lot of people on stage during that trial.

真的没人能帮你。

No no one can help you out.

法官帮不了你，证人也帮不了你。

Not the judge, not the witness.

真的谁也帮不了你。

No no one can help you.

没人。

No one.

是你在提问题。

You're the one asking the questions.

好的。

Okay.

对。

And Yeah.

我尽量简洁地说，我当时对那名下士说：让我先退一步。

And I and I, in the most succinct way I could think of, I was like, let me backtrack for a moment, corporal lieutenant.

好的。

Okay.

好的。

Okay.

你做得很对。

You did the right thing.

我们很快就重新上路了。

And And And we we You got back

上路了？

on the road?

我们很快就重新上路了。

We got back on the road very quickly.

然后我转身背对观众，说：‘没问题了，不再回答了。’

And then when I turned upstage to go back no further questions.

顺便说一句，那是我听过最让人热血沸腾的‘不再回答了’，还是从演员嘴里说出来的。

By the way, it was the most exhilarating no further questions that have ever come out of an actor's mouth.

我走回辩护席，那些演员的眼睛都瞪得跟铜铃一样。

And I walk walk back to the defense table, and and these these actors' eyes were like saucers.

可谁都没察觉异常。

And and and no one was the wiser.

我的意思是，除了那些演员，真没人知道发生了什么。

I mean, literally no one knew other than the actors.

观众根本没看出来。

The audience never knew.

评论家也完全没察觉。

The critics never knew.

你要是当时在场，肯定能发现。

You would have known.

真是万幸。

Thank god.

你当时正去拿烟。

You were getting a cigarette.

天哪。

Wow.

确实得感谢老天。

Thank god indeed.

舞台上的那些事，我之前在百老汇演过一部剧，演了一年半，直到三月十三日所有剧院停摆，等纽约恢复了，我们还会再回来的。

The things that that happened on stage, I've had a a play on Broadway, had it for a year and a half until things shut down, on March 13 until all theaters shut down, and we'll be back again, when New York is back again.

但是，在拉斯维加斯枪击案发生的第二天，也就是那场大型

But, the day after the shooting in Las Vegas, end of the giant

对。

Yes.

造成52人死亡的音乐会，是的。

52 people killed concert Yeah.

在拉斯维加斯。

In Las Vegas.

那是个周五晚上。

That was a Friday night.

周六晚上十点半左右，也就是《杀死一只知更鸟》演出开始前大约十分钟。

On Saturday night, at around 10:30, which is about ten minutes before, our play before To Kill a Mockingbird comes down.

时代广场有一辆摩托车爆胎了。

In Times Square, a motorcycle backfired.

当时时代广场人山人海，周六晚上十点半，大家都吓得尖叫着四散奔逃。

And everyone in Times Square, and that's a lot of people at 10:30 on a Saturday night, started screaming and running.

如果你从时代广场往西走，不管是44街还是45街，第一个安全的地方就是我们的剧院——舒伯特剧院。

And if you run west from Times Square on either 44th or 45th Street, the first safe place you're gonna find is our theater, the Schubert Theater.

那是你最先能跑进去的、开着门的地方。

That's gonna be the first place you're gonna run into that's open.

几百人冲进大堂，拼命敲门，想逃到观众席里去。

Hundreds of people started running into the lobby and banging on the doors to get into the the orchestra.

他们以为有个持枪的人在附近追杀。

They thought they were running away from a gunman.

于是观众席里所有人都慌了神。

So everyone sitting in the orchestra starts to panic.

这时候，舞台上只剩一位女演员，西莉亚·基南-博尔格正在演斯库特。

And at this point, there's just one actress on stage, Celia Keenan Bolger playing scout.

观众开始尖叫时，她完全不知道外面发生了什么。

And she didn't know what was happening as the audience started screaming.

她有充分的理由相信，剧院里真有个拿枪或刀的人，马上就要冲上舞台了。

She had every reason to believe that there was somebody in our theater with a gun or a knife, and that they were about to jump on stage.

她清空了舞台。

She clears the stage.

幕布缓缓落下。

The curtain comes down.

不知怎么的，他们最终把局面稳住了。

Somehow somehow, they got everything, under control.

但我只记得当时在想，这肯定不是第一次有人在时代广场听到摩托车回火的声音。

But all I remember thinking is, I'm sure that wasn't the first time a motorcycle backfired in Times Square.

只是这一次，所有人都以为是有人持枪行凶。

It's just the first time everyone assumed it was someone with a gun.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

舞台上发生的事是，我记得我一直特别喜欢保罗·纽曼，而当时我只记得……

The what happens on stage is I I remember I was a I am still a huge Paul Newman fan, and I re the only Mhmm.

我跟他唯一一次互动，是在威廉斯敦戏剧节上。

Real time I ever had any interaction with him was at the Williamstown Theater Festival.

他妻子乔安在导演一部戏，而我当时也在那儿演戏。

And his wife, Joanne, was directing something, and I was doing a play up there.

我记得他当时……

And I remember him

你那时候也在，对吧？

saying there, weren't you?

我那会儿跟克里斯托弗·沃肯一起演契诃夫的戏。

I was I was doing Chekov with Christopher Walken.

没错。

That's right.

我记得……

And and I remember

契诃夫，跟克里斯托弗·沃肯。

Chekov with Christopher Walken.

我

I'm

我有几个特别棒的故事要讲。

Oh, I've got I I got a couple good ones.

我有几个特别棒的故事，待会儿说给你们听。

I got a couple good ones I'm gonna share with guys.

真的特别棒。

They're so good.

真的特别棒。

Oh, they're so good.

但是

But

是的。

Yeah.

我该来主导这个采访了。

I should take over this interview.

我想跟你聊聊。

I wanna talk to you.

对。

Yeah.

你确实应该。

You should.

我跟你说真的。

Believe me.

你不会真以为是亚历克·鲍德温干的吧。

You wouldn't mean Alec Baldwin did it.

亚历克把整件事都接过去了。

Alec took this whole thing over.

他直接从我手里接过了主导权。

He took the reins right from me.

我当时就是，你知道的

I I was just, you know

是的。

Yeah.

我就是做那个剧。

I'm do that watch.

纽曼当时说，我喜欢你做剧场，因为无论怎样你总有个地方可以回去，而没多少人能做到这一点。

So Newman was like, I love that you're doing the theater because you'll always have it to come back to and and not enough people do it.

那就是纯粹的你一个人。

And And it's that it's just you.

台上就你一个人，你永远不知道接下来会发生什么。

It's just you up there, and you never know what is going happen.

你知道吗？在《好人寥寥》上演期间，我后来才听说，有对夫妇特别出名，他们总坐在皇家包厢里，演戏的时候还做那档子事。

Do you know so on A Few Good Men, apparently, I realized this during the run, there's a couple that's famous for sitting in the Royal Box and having sex during the show.

你听说过这事吗？

Do you know about this?

我知道。

I did.

天哪。

Jesus.

不会吧。

No.

我真不知道还有这事儿。

I didn't know about that.

我知道皇家包厢，觉得挺酷的。

I I sure knew about the Royal Box, and I thought that was cool.

简单说一下，给你的听众们，伦敦西区有几家剧院拥有皇家头衔。

And just very quickly, for your listeners, there are a couple of theaters in the West End in London, that have the royal designation.

我们所在的皇家海马剧院就是其中之一。

The Royal Haymarket, where we were is one of them.

说实话，我也不太清楚这头衔具体意味着什么，只知道那里有个专供王室成员的包厢。

And I'm not, honestly, I'm not exactly sure what that means except that there is a royal box reserved for royalty.

现在你这么说，原来那包厢还有别的用途。

And now you say it's also reserved for something else.

而且他们的位置正好在你正面朝向舞台中心时的视线范围内。

Well so and it's and where they're situated is always perfectly in your sight line if you're if you're standing profile to profile center stage.

对。

Uh-huh.

这倒也说得通。

And which would make sense.

当然得给女王最好的座位。

You'd give the queen the best seats in the house.

是的。

So Yes.

但那个座位一直都是空着的。

It's always empty.

不过据说，只要你认识人或者花钱打点，就能坐进去。

But, apparently, I you can if you know somebody or pay somebody, you can get it.

总之，有天我往那边一瞥，看见一对情侣正在做某种特定的亲密行为。

Anyway, long story short, I looked off one one day, and and there was a couple having sex, doing a very specific sex act.

然后我们就当没看见了。

And and then I I we're like, whatever.

中场休息时，舞台经理过去对他们说，这里不能这样。

And then so at intermission, the stage manager went to them and said, you cannot do that.

于是他们就在第二幕换了个动作。

And so they just merely changed the sex act in the second part of the play.

天哪。

Oh my god.

天哪。

Oh my god.

是啊。

Yeah.

对啊。

Oh, yeah.

但据说如果有人

And but, apparently, if people

问题是他们喜欢去剧院，这是一种公开表达的方式。

thing is they like to go to theaters, and it's some public way do this.

他们希望演员能注意到他们。

They want the actors to see them.

而且这大家都知道。

And they and and it's known.

如果你是西区的老戏骨，就会心照不宣地说：‘哦，当然了。’

Like, if you're a a West End veteran, you're like, oh, yeah.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

当然。

Sure.

你知道吗，朱迪

It's like, did you know that Judy

那天你上台前，听说过这个事吗？

Dent something you knew about before you walked on stage that night?

我知道。

I did know.

我之前听说过一个

I learned about a

老规矩，哦，这儿有个传统，你得知道一下。

old say, oh, here's here's a tradition you should know about here at the A.

对。

M.

市场。

Market.

没错，就是这么回事。

That that's exactly what it is.

我真不知道。

I did not know.

你知道吗？朱迪·丹奇在西区演出时，只要有机会，就会在自己正在演的剧目期间溜出去，跑到街对面去客串另一部剧。

Do you know that Judy Dench, she's in the West End, has a tradition where she, if she can, leaves the show she's starring in while it's running and runs across the street and and does a walk on part on another show?

这可是她的特色？

Like, that's her thing?

我也不清楚。

I didn't know that.

没有这回事。

No.

这难道不疯狂吗？

Isn't that crazy?

这难道不绝妙吗？

Isn't that genius?

它

It

这太厉害了。

is genius.

但我真想听听你和克里斯托弗·沃肯在威廉斯敦演契诃夫的事。

But I wanna hear about you and Christopher Walken doing Chekov at Williamstown.

好的。

Okay.

你知道的，克里斯说话的方式特别神秘。

So so so Chris, as you know, has a manner of speaking that is very enigmatic.

他以前有个片段，我每晚都会跑到侧台看。

And that and he used to have a moment that I would come to the wings to watch every night.

我一直说不清为什么特别喜欢那个片段。

For and I never knew why I particularly liked it.

就是他说话的那种感觉，剧情里是说村子着火了，大家都躲在阁楼里避难。

It was just something about the way he said it, and it was basically in the play, the there's the village is on on fire, and they're all sheltering in place in an attic.

他演的是弗谢宁。

And he's playing Vershinen.

他和一家人躲在屋里避难，这时有个人走了进来。

He's sheltering in place with the family, and someone walks in.

克里斯的台词是：‘火势怎么样？’

And Chris' line is, how's the fire?

他说话的那种方式特别吸引我，我一直说不清原因，直到有一天，我拿起了以为是自己的剧本。

And there's something about the way he said it that I found so compelling and could never put my finger on until the day I picked up what I thought was my script.

结果那是他的剧本。

It was his.

剧本摊开在‘火势怎么样？’这一句上。

And it was open to how's the fire?

他把剧本里的‘火’字划掉了，上面改成了‘烧烤’。

And he he had crossed out the word fire in the script, and above it, written the word barbecue.

这下我明白了，他之前那些令人惊叹的表演，其实都是这么来的——也许你不会被逼疯，但你一定会觉得不可思议。

And I was like, that makes the other thing he did he does, which is amazing, is and this would drive you maybe it wouldn't drive you berserk.

如果你把那段萨姆·西伯恩的长篇独白，把所有标点都删掉，然后随便怎么记下来，你会是什么感觉？

How would you feel if you gave me that big Sam Seaborn speech and I took out all the punctuation and and and memorized it in any way?

他还有另一句台词。

He had another he there was a line.

这简直是契诃夫的风格。

Now this is fucking Anton Chekov.

我会觉得过意不去。

You I would feel bad.

这就是契诃夫。

So it's Anton Chekov.

那段对话是——

The dialogue was

重要的剧作家。

The important dramatist.

重要的剧作家。

Important dramatist.

主题就是，他们想去莫斯科。

And the theme was, you know, they wanna go to Moscow.

那里的人可聪明了。

That's where people are smart.

你知道吗，那里的人见多识广。

You know, that's where people are worldly.

其中一个角色就说，其实我不信这个。

And one of the characters was like, well, actually, I don't believe in that.

我们其实也懂很多没用的东西。

We we know a lot of useless things as well.

我记得特别清楚。

So I remember this very vividly.

那些对话是契诃夫写的，克里斯托弗·沃肯得念的那句是：瞧，这就是了。

The dialogue is written by Anton Chekov that Christopher Walken had to say was, well, there you have it.

完。

Period.

你懂的那些没用的东西可真不少。

You know a lot of useless things.

就这样。

Period.

克里斯·沃肯会说，事情就是这么回事。

Chris Walken would say, well, there you have it.

你知道的，一堆没用的东西。

You know, a lot of useless things.

广告后马上回来。

And we'll be right back after this.

说到沃肯和阿尔·鲍德温，你们俩都上过好几次《周六夜现场》。

Now speaking of Walken and Al Baldwin, you two have hosted SNL a number of times.

是的。

Yes.

对。

Yes.

所以我们知道不少故事，但我很好奇。

So we know a lot of stories, but I'm curious.

你给我们讲讲单口喜剧的创作过程吧。

Just walk us through some monologue.

好吗？

Okay?

编剧们会向你推荐段子吗？

Are writers pitching you stuff?

哦。

Oh.

你是说，我也想聊这个？

Are you saying I'd like to talk about this?

这效果怎么样？

How's that working?

就是单口喜剧这部分。

The monologue.

首先，我每次上台前，头一件事就是问这个。

First of all, the every time I've done it, it's the very first thing I ask about.

对，没错。

And Mhmm.

每次都是同样的回答。

Every single time, the answer is the same.

是的。

Yes.

我们会说到的。

We'll get to it.

它绝对是最后才有人想到、才愿意听你谈的事，真的吗？

It is the absolute last thing anybody thinks about or gives you Really?

完完全全排在最后。

The absolute dead last.

根本没法让他们把注意力放在上面。

You cannot get them to focus on it at all.

这不让你吓一跳吗？

That doesn't scare the hell out of you?

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

是的。

Yes.

确实如此。

It does.

我们评判你当主持人表现好坏的依据，有六成左右都来自你的独白部分。

We're we're gonna reach, like, 60% of our judgment on how good a host you were based on your monologue.

虽然这听起来挺不公平的。

As unfair as that is.

你还有大约九十分钟后就要上场了。

You got about ninety minutes to go.

但是

But

你要是从他们的角度看，这其实完全说得通，如果算上嗯，大概占了节目的5%吧。

It makes perfect sense when you think about it, like, from their perspective, that's, what, 5% of the show if Mhmm.

他们最关心的是能不能把节目顺利做出来。

They wanna make sure they have a show.

对。

Yeah.

而且我从来都不是真的在讲自己的话，总觉得那些脱口秀段子都是首席编剧写的，不是我们团队写的。

And And then I'm not I'm never real I always feel like the monologues were written by the head writers and not the staff.

团队里竞争太激烈了，每个人都想把自己的内容放上去，结果反而容易被忽略。我觉得他们这么做，也是想更了解主持人。

And the staff is so competitive, and everybody's trying to get their stuff on that it just it kind of falls sort of through the cracks, and they feel and I think part of it is they're trying to get to know the host also.

你觉得，这是让他们推荐自己喜欢的内容的最好方式吗？

Think Is this the best way for them to get their stuff on to rep something you like?

是的。

Yes.

他们确实很尊重这一点，毕竟主持人真正掌控着整个节目，他们也特别愿意顺着主持人的口味来。

And they're great about that because the the you know, the host does run the show, really and truly, and they're great about about deferring to the host's taste.

但我三次主持的时候，那段开场白我记得特别清楚，那次我主持时带大家参观了白宫，包括那个他们‘处理总统’的房间。

But at the three times I did it, the monologue well, the I remember what the the time I hosted it when we were doing, West Wing was was me giving a a tour of the White House, including the room where they, quote, blow the president.

对。

Right.

没错。

Right.

你之前还做过一次教堂访谈。

And you also because you did a church chat.

是吧？

Right?

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

那是戴娜吧？

Well, that's Dana?

是的。

Yeah.

所以，我是说，当你上节目时，会不会直接说：我想做个教堂访谈，尤其是有固定角色的时候？

So well, I mean, just what like, do you come on saying, I'd really like to do a church chat if there's an established character, recurring character?

你会的。

You do.

我记得第一次和迈克·迈尔斯合作时，他问我：你想演《韦恩的世界》还是《斯普洛克特》？

The one I I remember with started my relationship with Mike Myers, I came on, and he was like, do you wanna do a a Wayne's World or a a a Sprockets?

说来有趣，我其实更喜欢《斯普洛克特》而不是《韦恩的世界》。

And I was actually a Sprockets guy more than a Wayne's World guy, ironically.

所以我们最后做了《斯普洛克特》，那真是最棒的。

And so we get a Sprockets is the greatest.

我演了一个比利时编舞家，他掀起了一股叫《鳟鱼舞》的国际舞蹈风潮。

I played a, I think, a Belgian choreographer who indented an international dance craze called The Trout.

我记得。

I remember.

而且你啊，朋友，简直就是为《斯普洛克特》而生的。

And you also, my friend, just perfect for sprockets.

我的意思是，你懂的。

I mean You know?

别逗了。

Come on.

那种完美精致的长相。

To That sort of perfect chiseled looking person.

你上《周六夜现场》的时候，有没有和劳伦一起坐在看台底下喝阿姆斯特尔啤酒？

Did you when you were doing Studio sixty, did you did you get to sit back with Lauren and drink Amstel's under the bleachers?

没有。

No.

我没这机会。

I didn't.

我只见过一次劳伦·米歇尔，那是斯科特·萨萨在家办晚宴，请了一些人，我也在场。

I've I've I've met Lauren Michaels once, at a dinner that, Scott Sasa had, at his house for some people.

别逗了。

Come on.

你也就只见过洛恩·迈克尔斯那一次。

You've not met Lorne Michaels more than that.

是的。

Yeah.

没有，我真的没再见过。

No, I haven't.

而且我绝对是他的铁粉。

And obviously, I'm a huge admirer.

对。

Yeah.

我不确定有多少人知道，做《周六夜现场》有多难，一做就是四十多年，还能保持这么高的水准，电视史上真找不出第二个。

I'm I'm not sure how many people know just how difficult doing that show is SNL, and to do it for forty something years now and and keep it at this level is, I I just that's unmatched in television.

你明白吧？

You know?

劳伦就像是我每期播客里挥之不去的幽灵。

Lauren is the ghost that haunts every podcast I do.

我的意思是，只要一提到劳伦，我跟你说，我几乎每场采访都会谈到他。

I mean, I Lauren comes up, I'm not kidding, in in almost every interview I do.

每一场都是这样。

Every single one.

因为但凡你有点幽默感，或者对喜剧感兴趣，你就一定会喜欢洛恩。

Because he's I mean, if you're even at all funny or interested in comedy, you love Lorne.

而且如果你真了解洛恩，他绝对是史上最有金句的人。

And then if you know Lorne, he's the most quotable person who ever lived.

所以其实我和艾米·波勒拍《公园与游憩》的时候，还打算搞个假的洛恩·迈克尔斯推特账号，专门发他那些特别经典的原话。

So in fact, Amy Polar and I, when we were doing Parks and Rec, we were I was talking to do a fake Lorne Michaels Twitter account with some of his amazing trues.

顺便问一下，你知道吗？当年拍《公园与游憩》的时候，他们的想法是，既然《白宫风云》那么受欢迎，剧情发生在白宫，那喜剧该发生在哪儿呢？

And by the way, did you ever did you know that that they when they made Parks and Rec, the thinking behind it was they all loved The West Wing so much that if the drama took place in the White House, where would the comedy take place?

最后他们就决定，放在公园与休闲部门。

And they figured it would take place in the Parks and Rec department.

你以前听说过这个吗？

Did you know that?

这真让人受宠若惊，他们构思这部剧的时候，居然还想到过《公园与游憩》。

Well, that that's incredibly flattering at the show was, was on their mind at all, when they were conceiving it conceiving of it.

这部剧太棒了，说来也巧，我真的很想跟你聊聊《公园与游憩》。

The show is fantastic, and it's funny because you, and I I really would I really like would like to talk about Parks and Rec.

但你演过的两部剧，都是向公共服务致敬的作品。

But you were on two shows that are Valentine's to public service.

是啊。

Yeah.

对啊。

Yeah.

我知道。

I know.

是不是挺奇怪的？

Isn't it weird?

确实挺奇怪的。

It's it's weird.

确实如此。

It's it's Yeah.

我对此感到非常满足。

It's I feel great satisfaction in that.

而且我觉得《西翼》可以和任何一部剧集比肩，而《公园与游憩》也完全配得上最佳喜剧的称号，而且能参与其中，

And also because I really think I'll put The West Wing up there with any drama, and I'll put Parks up there with any comedy, you know, and and to be able to,

是啊，我同意。

you know I agree.

我觉得《公园与游憩》里有些片段，当时绝对是电视上最出色的剧情，而《西翼》里也有很多特别搞笑的桥段。

And I also think that there have been episodes of Parks, scenes in Parks that in that moment were the best drama on TV, and I think that there were very funny moments on on The West Wing.

不过《公园与游憩》的演员阵容也真是没得说。

But that Parks and Rec Rec cast was another incredible cast.

没错。

Yep.

不知道你知不知道这件事。

I don't know if you know this.

但是

But

尼克·霍夫曼。

Nick Hoffman.

尼克·霍夫曼。

Nick Hoffman.

对。

Yes.

他出演过《白宫风云》。

He's on The West Wing.

没错。

Yes.

他是那个狼角色，普洛伊。

He it's Ploey the Ploey the wolf.

对吧？

Right?

Ploey这只狼。

Ploey the wolf.

对。

Yes.

我之前真不知道，直到去年才听说，Anna Gaspire就是黄油热线的接线员。

And I didn't know this, I think, until last year that Anna Gaspire was the butterball hotline operator.

不是吧。

No.

是的。

Yeah.

她确实是。

She was.

我猜事情是这样的：当时我们拍Martin那边打电话的戏份时，还没选好接线员这个角色，所以我们只听到她的声音。

I'm sure what happened was this, that the reason why I didn't know it was her was that we hadn't cast the part by the time, you know, we shot or shooting Martin's side of the phone call, and we only ever hear her.

所以很可能是个场务在幕后念的台词。

So it was probably an AD reading in the operator.