Ludology 349 驯鹿游戏

类似情况可能会突然出现。

Like, that can kinda pop up.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

我们真正从希望玩家感受到的情绪、玩法和视觉体验出发，然后在此基础上推进开发。

We really we really started with what we wanted people to feel, play, and see, and and then went from there.

圣诞节假期对大多数人来说总是家庭团聚的时刻，对吧？

So Christmas time, the holidays are always family times, right, for most of us.

而家庭意味着不同的人、不同的年龄、不同的喜好和不同的厌恶。

And family means different people, different ages, different likes, different dislikes.

在游戏设计中，你如何考虑节日期间可能出现的各种家庭互动模式？

How do you account for all of the different family dynamics that can occur during the holidays in game design?

我们想确保每个装饰物里的内容都能完美呈现那种体验。

So we wanted to make sure that everything we we put inside of an ornament paid off kind of what that experience is.

换句话说，当你从圣诞树上取下一个装饰物时，你希望它能快速上桌、容易上手，连奶奶都能玩。

In other words, when you get an ornament off the tree, you expect it to be quick to get to the table, easy to learn, grandma should be able to play.

对吧？

Right?

你不能放一些过于挑战性的内容进去。

You can't, like, have something that's, like, too challenging.

所以我们最初就决定将其分成两个三合一套装：家庭套装和策略套装。

So we initially immediately decided we're gonna split this into two packs of three, a family pack and a strategy pack.

因为我们热爱策略游戏，喜欢更具游戏性的深度游戏，但我们也明白需要那些纯粹简单的家庭游戏——既能和五岁孩子玩，也能和九十五岁老人玩。

Because we love strategy games, we love a little more gamery games that have a little more to them, but we also know that we need you need to be able to have games that are just straight up easy family, like you can play with a five year old or you can play with a 95 year old.

因此我们将产品线分成了两个独立的三合一套装。

So we bifurcated the line into two separate sets of three.

一个是家庭三合一套装，另一个是策略三合一套装。

There's the family pack of three and the strategy pack of three.

这样就能给大家提供更多选择。

And so that's to give you options.

对吧？

Right?

在此基础上，即便是策略游戏也设计了更简单的玩法——这样当你和那些不喜欢复杂机制的玩家一起时，就能用更轻松的方式进行游戏。

And then within that, even the strategy games have simpler ways of playing so that if you're playing with somebody who doesn't love, you know, real crunchy mechanics, you can play a little bit simpler way.

这一点同样非常重要。

So that was really important as well.

接着我们运用了所有已知的游戏设计法则，确保公平性，避免出现碾压性优势的局面，保证当游戏在实际场景中展开时，每位玩家都能感受到被妥善关照、享受乐趣，并愿意再次体验。

And then, basically, trying to use all of the rules we know about game design to make things fair, to make sure there's not any kind of runaway lead situation, to make sure that, like, when you get this out in the scenario you're gonna get it out in, everyone feels well cared for, had fun, and wants to do it again later.

最终目标是打造一个让人愿意年复一年回归的传统——我们准备了一个可爱的纪念礼盒，所有装饰品都收纳在小树造型的盒子里。当你取出礼盒将装饰品挂上树时，就会迫不及待想再次游玩。

And then the ultimate thing is we just wanted to create a tradition you wanted to come back to, that every year you get we have a little cute commemorative box that all the ornaments come in a little tree, so when you get your ornament box out, you hang them on the tree, you're excited to play them again.

为此，我们必须确保重点讨论的所有要素都能优化首次游玩体验。

To do that, we need to make sure that every like, of the things we talk about a lot is first playthrough experience.

如果玩家在十次游玩后爱上游戏当然很棒，但在这个场景中，他们必须在第一次就爱上它——因为你可能没有第二次机会向奶奶讲解手牌管理机制。

If you love a game after 10 plays, that's great, but in this scenario, you have to love it after play number one because you may not get another shot at teaching hand management to grandma.

对吧？

Right?

所以我们要确保游戏本身充满乐趣且易于上手，这决定了我们为何如此注重亲和力设计，为何投入大量精力编写优质规则，为何坚持让玩家拆封五分钟后就能直接开始游戏。

So we need to make sure this is really fun, easy to grab, and so that that's probably what dictated the the the ease of approach and why we focused so hard on writing great rules and why we wanted to make sure that you could pick up the game and be playing within five minutes of opening it, stuff like that.

是的。

Yeah.

就像你说的，你们花了四个月调整计分机制

Like you said, you spent four months on the scoring Yeah.

为这个可能早已设计好的动作游戏

Mechanisms for a dexterity game that was probably designed already.

就是说，并不是说它已经设计好了，而是设计已经完成了。

Like, not that it was designed already, but the design was finished.

哦，是的。

Oh, yeah.

它成功了。

It worked.

它在所有不同的排列组合中都奏效了，但我们想找到那个感觉最合适的

It worked in all of those different permutations, but we wanted to find the one that felt the

最佳方案。

best.

对。

Right.

是的。

Yeah.

你之前确实提到过Quan Chi，有趣的是，你知道，对于任何怀旧或节日相关的东西，不同的人会有不同的期待。

So you did mention Quan Chi earlier, and so the interesting thing, you know, with anything nostalgia or something that's holiday is, I could think different people have different expectations.

那么在与你们的艺术家和插画师合作创作时，你们是如何协调的？我猜，就像是每个人的节日愿景，他们希望看到什么？

So how is it collaborating with your, you know, artists and illustrators to create, I guess, you know, almost kinda like, what's everybody's holiday, you know, what what they would like to see?

你们是怎么努力让节日造型看起来恰到好处的？

Like, how did you kinda work to get that your holiday look kinda nailed?

Dustin Faust是这个产品线的艺术总监。

Dustin Faust is the art director for the line.

他为所有五款非量化的游戏设定了一些通用的视觉参数。

So he kind of set some general visual parameters for all five of the games that weren't quantized.

然后他基本上就是说了，所有参与游戏开发的人，你们告诉我们你们想要它看起来是什么样子。

And then and and basically what he did was he basically said, everyone that's working on a game, you tell us what you want it to look like.

我会把你们对节日的想法融入我们正在做的视觉风格中，这样每款游戏都会感觉有些不同，但又有着相似的统一视觉风格，因为都经过了Dustin的视角过滤。

I will marry what you what your ideas of holiday are into the visual style we're doing so that every game feels a little different, but it has the same kind of married visual style because it goes through Dustin's kind of lens.

但我们确实希望每位设计师都能提出一个想法：嘿，你觉得圣诞节对你意味着什么？

But we did want each designer to bring an idea of, hey, what do you think what does Christmas mean to you?

这个你希望它看起来是什么样子的？

What does this what do you want this to look like?

它应该给人什么感觉？

What should it feel like?

所以他们的想法只是通过Dustin的视角来呈现。

And then so there is their thoughts are represented just through Dustin's lens.

至于Quan Chi，我们只是说：嘿，伙计，六周后见。

When it comes to Quan Chi, we just said, hey, buddy, we'll see you in six weeks.

你什么时候做完就告诉我们。

You tell us when it's done.

不管是什么，我们都会点击打印。

Whatever it is, we're clicking print.

因为你不想控制那些有远见的人。

Cause you don't wanna control the people who have the vision.

我们不想控制我们的游戏设计师。

We don't wanna control our game designers.

我们不想控制我们的艺术家。

We don't wanna control our artists.

归根结底，他和吉娜所感受到的圣诞氛围正是这款游戏想传递的，我们不会试图改变这一点。

Ultimately, what he and Gina felt like Christmas was is what that game is, and we don't try to change that.

这听起来很合理，尤其是当你与像Quanti这样水准的艺术家合作时。

That sounds reasonable, especially when you're working with, you know, artists, the quality and caliber of of Quanti.

是啊。

So Yeah.

太棒了。

Wonderful.

这个项目的每个成员都很出色。

And everyone on this project is great.

比如MSQ公司的达里尔·安德鲁斯和艾德里安。

Like, you know, have Daryl Andrews and Adrian at MSQ.

我们还有前迪士尼动画师达斯汀。

We've got, like, you know, Dustin is a former Disney animator.

你觉得我会比他更懂动画制作吗？

Like, you you think I know how to do animation better than him?

我们只需让他做好本职工作。

Like, you just we just let him do his job.

每个人都各司其职。

Everybody just does their job.

做好你的工作。

Do your job.

说到这个，我认为部分原因还在于整体包装。

And I guess speaking of that, part of it is also in the packaging of it all.

你说它会装在这么精美的纪念包装里，让你每年都乐意把装饰品拿出来。

So you said that it's coming in this beautiful commemorative packaging that you'll be happy to, you know, take out your ornaments every year.

有趣的是，这就像迪士尼动画里那种——你知道的，圣诞节的核心记忆，就像我脑子里那些每年圣诞节都会蹦出来的小彩球之一，哦对。

And it's funny because that is a very big, like you know, if we're talking, like, Disney animation and and, you know, core memories of of Christmas is, like, definitely one of the little balls inside up balls in my brain that comes out every Christmas is, oh, yeah.

我记得打开这种薄薄的盒子，上面有玻璃纸，因为是七十年代的产物。

I remember opening this kind of flimsy box that had, like, a cellophane because it's from the seventies.

对吧？

Right?

是啊。

Yeah.

玻璃纸封顶。

Cellophane top.

里面全是这些白蓝相间的小球，上面镶嵌着银色亮片，形成雪花和星爆的图案。

And inside, there were all these balls that were white and blue, and they had, like, silver sparkles that were, like, you know, emblazoned on them in, like, snowflake and starburst patterns.

那就是圣诞节快来临的信号。

And that that was the sign that it was gonna be Christmas soon.

没错。

Yeah.

所以怀旧情结就在这儿。

And so that nostalgia factors there.

但这个包装啊。

But the packaging.

对吧？

Right?

包装。

The packaging.

有趣的是，装饰品本身已经变成了包装，嗯哼。

And the funny thing is that the ornaments themselves have become packaging Mhmm.

为了里面的游戏。

For the game that's inside.

那么你打算如何让包装脱颖而出，让人们觉得，是的，我们每年都想把这些挂起来。

So how are you gonna make the packaging stand out in a way that people are like, yes, we wanna put those up every year.

这就是我们想要的。

That's what we want.

是啊。

Yeah.

于是我们找到了一家很棒的圣诞装饰品制造商。

So we went and found a great manufacturer of Christmas ornaments.

这就是你的起点。

That's where you start.

因为圣诞装饰品，当你购买时，这完全是另一个世界。

Because Christmas ornaments, when you buy like, this is a whole other world.

光是圣诞装饰品我就能再讲一个小时。

I could do another hour just on Christmas ornaments.

但当你买一个漂亮的圣诞装饰品时，入门价格是20美元，20.25美元。

But when you buy a nice Christmas ornament, entry level price, $20, $20.25 bucks.

再说一次，那里面什么都没有。

Again, that's with nothing in it.

于是我们从那些制作20到40美元精美圣诞装饰品的人开始着手。

So we started with the people who make those kind of great 20 to $40 Christmas ornaments.

对吧？

Right?

他们已经有了，然后我们说，好吧，我们如何设计一个能承载意义的东西，至少要有一定分量，但又不会显得不平衡或怎样。

They've got and then we said, okay, how can we design something that will hold something of meaning, you know, at least some kind of mass without, you know, being uneven or whatever.

所以我们最终选定了这个小圆球设计，它有点像球体，你得亲眼看看才能真正理解，但有点像是个压扁的球体，然后它... 对。

So we landed on this little bobble design, which is like kind of a sphere, kind of a you have to see it to really understand it, but it's kind of like a a crunched sphere, and then it Yeah.

它就像...就像个...像个含片形状。

It's like it's like a it's like a like a lozenge.

完美。

Perfect.

圣诞含片。

Christmas lozenge.

这是个镀锡的拱形物件。

It's domed tin thing.

就是这样。

There you go.

对。

Yeah.

我选含片这个说法。

I'll go with lozenge.

那就是个含片。

That's a lozenge.

这是一颗圣诞含片。

It's a Christmas lozenge.

所以你打开它，我们就从这里开始。

So you open so we started with that.

对吧？

Right?

而且我们用一种非常优质的金属制作它们。

And we made them out of a really nice metal.

我们先用高端打印机把它们印好，这样拉伸时效果会非常棒，然后定制模具来制作这些东西，现在我们正批量生产这些既结实又美观、手感声音俱佳的产品。

We have them printed, you know, with a high end, you know, printer, and then it's like all preprinted so that when it stretches, it all looks really good, and then we custom built dies to make these things, and now we're just kinda cranking out these really robust, very like, they're beautiful feeling and sounding.

它们的重量刚刚好。

They're just the right weight.

我不知道。

I don't know.

我们花了很多时间与圣诞装饰品制造商合作，以确保产品可行，因为这是关键部分。

We just spent a lot of time working with the Christmas ornament manufacturers to get something that works because that was gonna be a huge part of it.

你得真正调整色调，要知道，没有足够多的游戏是装在小锡罐里的。

You had to really tint, know, not enough games come in little tins.

比如，我就希望有更多游戏能装在锡罐里，因为我觉得这种包装本身就很有趣。

Like, I just wish there were more games that came in tins, because I think it's a fun packaging moment anyway.

所以我们一开始就致力于把这部分做好，并与懂行的专业人士合作。

So we started with wanting to make that part right and and working with the people who knew how to do it.

我得说，我个人不喜欢装在锡罐里的游戏，但它们现在正挂在某处的绳子上。

I'll say I personally don't like games and tins, but they're hanging from strings somewhere.

我大概可以接受。

I'm probably okay with it.

没关系。

That's alright.

是啊。

Yeah.

不行。

No.

这很合理，因为它们没法好好放在架子上。

That makes because they don't go on shelves properly.

它们很棒，你知道为什么吗？

They're great you know what it is?

作为礼物很棒，但具体要看你的实际收藏情况。

They are great for gifts, but it depends on what your actual collection looks like.

它们对花萼不友好。

They're not calyx friendly.

但公平地说，悬挂它们和用硬纸板堆叠是完全不同的概念。

But I'll be fair, like, hanging them is a very different thing than trying to stack them with actual cardboard.

有人建议我们包装时附带一条花环绳，可以直接挂上去，这样就能绕过你的花萼。

Somebody suggested we package them with a rope of garland that you could just like hang them on, like, and then like that goes over your your calyx.

我们试过

We did

如果你集齐全套，附带花环挂件的话，这个方案可行。

That could be if you get the full like, when you get the full collection, it comes with the garland you hang it on.

好吧，如果我们用锡纸惹恼了你，那么它们装的那个三角盒子对你的花萼伤害会比锡纸更大。

Well, if we pissed you off with tin, then the triangular box they all come in is gonna be worse for your calyx than the tin even.

所以，就像，你没法在它周围放任何东西，只能妥协

So, like, you can't put anything around it, but concession

对。

Yeah.

因为这是一、二、三、四、五、六。

Because it's one, two, three, four, five, six.

嗯。

Mhmm.

我明白了。

I get it.

你得想个巧妙的零食收纳方法之类的。

You're gonna have to come with a neat snacking method or something.

我不知道。

I don't know.

呃，另外我们预期它会放进你的阁楼里。

Well, the other thing is we expect it to go into your attic.

就像，我们认为它应该和你的圣诞装饰一起放在阁楼。

Like, we think it goes in your attic with your Christmas stuff.

就像，你试图创造那种情感记忆的联结。

Like, you're trying to create that emotional memory attachment.

对吧？

Right?

要知道，我们讨论的是游戏的可重玩性。

That, you know, we're talking about replayability.

如果它消失一年后又回归，那种反复重玩的体验会让人耳目一新。

If it goes away for a year and comes back, there is a refresh to going back to it again and again.

对吧？

Right?

完全正确。

It's Absolutely true.

是啊。

Yeah.

这款游戏几乎就是希望你把它收起来。

The game you're almost want you to put away.

这观点也很有趣，因为这确实意味着规则必须简单好记，这样你就不必花20分钟重新学习一个15分钟就能玩完的游戏。

That that is interesting too because that really does dictate that the rules have to be simple and memorable, so you're not spending twenty minutes relearning a game that takes fifteen minutes to play Yeah.

每年都这样。

Every year.

需要考虑的事情太多了，这实际上引出了一大堆问题。

There's a ton so, like, that actually opens up a bunch of things you have to think about.

比如说，你不能把游戏名称直接写在装饰品正面。

So, like, for instance, you can't put the name of the game on the front of the ornament.

有太多细节需要考量了。

Like, there's so many little things you have to think of.

你不能把游戏名称直接写在装饰品正面。

You can't put the name of the game on the front of the ornament.

就像我做过的其他游戏盒一样，游戏名称都印在正面。

Like, every other game box I've ever worked on, the name of the game is on the front.

但装饰品应该只是一个你想欣赏的美丽场景。

But an ornament should just be a beautiful scene that you wanna look at.

当你翻到背面时，会看到游戏名称和详细信息，比如玩家人数、简短描述、时间限制、复杂度等等这类内容。

When you turn it over, you've got the name of the game on the back with the details, how many people can play it, what's a quick description, time limit, all the complexity, stuff like that.

但在正面，你得做得有点不一样。

But on the front, you you gotta do it a little differently.

我们不得不修改很多小细节，因为这是个完全不同的产品。

There's so many little things we had to change because this is just a different product.

这不是那种放在游戏架上的游戏。

It's it's not a game shelf game.

对。

Right.

这简直是在破坏一大堆期待。

It's it's a whole bunch of expectations that you're just, like, ruining.

是啊。

Yeah.

乔丹总是毁掉一切。

Jordan ruins everything.

乔丹毁了圣诞节。

Jordan ruins Christmas.

嗯，它需要兼顾两种功能，而且必须都做得同样好。

Well, it's it's two functions, and they have to serve both just as well.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

这对产品来说是好事，但在设计阶段确实很困难。

Which is good for a product, but it's hard when you're designing it.

是啊。

Yeah.

但作为产品设计师，我喜欢这些挑战。

But as a product designer, I like those challenges.

比如，你知道，我们全年都在为客户设计产品，通常我们最喜欢在最后一刻被叫去解决那些出问题或难以攻克的项目。

Like, you know, we design products for our clients all year, and we love usually, we get flown in at the last minute when something's not working or hard to solve.

所以我们总是要设计复杂的机械解决方案。

So we end up, like, doing complex, you know, mechanical solutions to things all the time.

这个项目让我们动脑筋动得很开心。

And this was a fun one to stretch our brains on.

我认为这些节日游戏既有天然优势也有天然劣势，因为它们确实只适用于一年中的特定时段。

So I think there's both an inherent pro and inherent con to the fact that these are holiday games, and that is the fact that they will truly be to a specific time of year.

你打算如何进行这类产品的营销？

How do you think you're gonna go about kind of marketing that?

比如现在通过众筹启动，你希望未来能发展成产品线。

Like, right now, it's a kick starter and you hope to continue it as a line.

对吧？

Right?

这在很多地方甚至可以作为销售点使用。

This is something that could even be point of sale at a lot of places.

你们是怎么考虑那些只有季节性促销的产品的？

How do you get to that with something, you know again, you know, just how what you guys are thinking with something that kind of only has a seasonal sale?

对。

Yeah.

那么，你想了解多少内部细节？

So, I mean, like, how much inside baseball do you want?

因为我会全部分享出来。

Because I'll I'll share it all.

所有内部细节。

All the inside baseball.

计划是这样的。

Here's the plan.

我们在埃森参展时，来自当地市场的兴趣相当大，是作为季节性产品。

So we were at Essen, and we had a fair bit of interest from, you know, the markets that that are represented there, as a as a seasonal item.

这基本上就是我们的推广方案。

And then this is basically what we're pitching.

我们每年推出六款新游戏。

We make six new games a year.

现在左右展示给你们。

We show them to you around now.

你们可以在1月14日下单。

You place your orders on, you know, January 14.

对吧？

Right?

我们选定一天。

We pick a day.

大概是一月份的前几周。

Some so first couple of weeks of January.

然后我们会生产你订购的所有产品，外加10%作为缓冲，一月份截止接单后，第二、三季度发货，你就能在假日季上架销售。

Then that then we produce everything you ask for, plus 10% to, you know, allow for a little bit more interest, and then we shut down our orders in January, we ship them to you second quarter, third quarter, and you put them on shelves for holiday.

所以从商业角度看这是个很简单的模式。

So it's like a sick it's a really from a business perspective, it's a simple model.

我们全年只设计六款产品。

We design six things all year long.

我们在年底前后接订单。

We take orders, you know, towards the end of the year.

次年年初就锁定订单。

We lock orders at the beginning of the next year.

我们只生产已下单的产品。

We manufacture only what was ordered.

针对零售渠道和其他客户——毕竟现在零售端对我们兴趣不小。

And we for retail and for anybody else, because we do have some a fair bit of retail interest at this point.

接着我们按需发货给他们，这样就能以低库存、低开销和低风险的方式运营。

So then and then we ship them everything they want, and we kinda get to exist as a low inventory company with not a ton of overhead and risk.

就这样——我们不强求你在圣诞节后立刻卖光，完全没问题。

That's it's pretty we don't expect you to sell them a day after Christmas, and that's fine.

是啊。

Yeah.

不。

No.

它们完全符合你购买和使用实际装饰品的方式。

They're right in line with the exact way you would purchase and use an actual ornament.

所以有趣的是，这款游戏的购买模式与季节性装饰品相同。

So it's interesting that it's a game that has the same buying pattern as seasonal decoration.

对。

Yep.

我们对此了解了很多。

And we learned a ton about that.

举个例子，我们发现当你想和人们谈论圣诞游戏时，他们往往更愿意在一年中较早的时候讨论圣诞游戏。

So for instance, like like, we found that when you wanna talk to people about Christmas games, they tend to wanna talk about Christmas games earlier in the year.

他们甚至可能在一年中较早的时候购买圣诞游戏。

They will even buy a Christmas game maybe earlier in the year.

但他们不会在现在之前购买圣诞装饰品，至少这是我们的初步理论。

They will not buy a Christmas ornament until right about now, or at least that's our working theory.

对吧？

Right?

数据似乎很好地支持了这一点。

It seems to be supported really well in data.

比如，你可以在七月份推出圣诞游戏促销，搞个'圣诞七月特惠'，效果会相当不错。

Like, you can put a Christmas game for sale in in, you know, July, can do a Christmas in July special, and it'll do pretty well.

如果你在七月份把一系列圣诞充气装饰品放到Kickstarter上，没人会觉得他们在七月需要这个。

If you put a line of Christmas inflatables up on Kickstarter in July, no one thinks they want one in July.

但如果你在十一月展示同样的东西，人们会说，哦，外面有点冷了。

And then if but if you show them that same thing in November, they go, oh, it's kinda cold out.

那样会很可爱。

That would be cute.

所以我们正在尝试找出哪种方式最合适，虽然我们认为已经解决了，但每年都还会继续学习。

So we're trying to, like, figure out which one of those approaches is the best one, and we think we've sorted it out, but we'll keep on learning every year.

对我来说，肯定是在美国感恩节和黑色星期五那段时间才会开始考虑这些。

I think, you know what, for me, it's it's definitely American Thanksgiving, Black Friday type times when I start thinking about that.

各位，我甚至都不是美国人。

And I'm not even American, everybody.

我是加拿大人。

I'm Canadian.

但我确实记得，很多次、很多年都趁着假期去美国——那些离得比较近的节日。

But I I I do remember, like, many, many times, many, many years going into The States on your holidays that were they're closer.

加拿大感恩节已经过了。

So Canadian Thanksgiving is it's already passed.

是在十月份。

So it's the October.

感觉那已经是很久以前的事了。

And that feels like, you know, too far away.

对吧？

Right?

因为中间还有个节日。

Because there's there's still a holiday in between.

还有万圣节呢。

There's still Halloween.

中间还有个万圣节。

There's still Halloween in between.

对吧？

Right?

对。

Right.

对。

Right.

所以对美国感恩节来说，感觉下一件事就是这个，我还有些时间。

And so with the American Thanksgiving, it feels like the next thing is this, and I have some time.

我有几天假期。

I have a couple days off.

你知道的，大促销就要来了。

There's, you know, big sales coming up.

我可以考虑这个。

I can think about that.

所以我明白为什么对那个市场来说这很有道理。

So I I can see why for that market that makes a lot of sense.

但可能在更全球化的背景下也有道理，比如那些按圣诞节的习俗来算时间的文化，因为你要考虑买圣诞树和挂装饰品。

But it probably makes sense across the the, like, the more global setting of, you know, cultures that celebrate Christmas in the terms of the timing of when an ornament is ready because you're thinking about getting the tree and putting up the ornaments.

你得先准备好装饰品才行。

You need the kinda need the you kinda wanna get the ornaments first.

就像写商业计划书一样，装饰品要排在买圣诞树之前。

Like, if you're if you're, like, writing out a business plan, like, get ornaments comes before get tree.

对吧？

Right?

至少我是这么想的。

In my mind, anyways.

先买树再去买装饰品，那多没意思。

Like, getting a tree and then going to get ornaments, that's no fun.

你肯定希望树一到手就能立刻挂上装饰品。

You wanna put the ornaments up as soon as you get the tree.

看吧，这些都是你没想到需要考虑的事，但节日确实会形成这些有趣的模式。

See all the things you didn't think you need to think about, but it's true because we have these interesting patterns with holidays.

是啊。

Yeah.

有太多事情我们甚至从未讨论或思考过，现在却在慢慢了解。

There's all these things that are just we don't even talk about or think about, and we're learning them.

我们正在实践中学习，而且面对的是全新的概念。

We're learning them on the fly, and we're doing it with a brand new concept.

所以今年不可能做到完美，但我们承诺会坚持下去，不断尝试并逐年进步，直到

So we're not gonna get them all right this year, but we're committed to doing it, and we're just gonna keep launching and doing better every

再过四年。

four more years.

我们得现在行动。

We got to now.

是啊。

Yeah.

就像总统职位一样。

It's like a presidency.

既然我们聊到万圣节和感恩节，有没有计划将产品线扩展到其他节日或季节性主题？

As we're talking about, you know, Halloween and Thanksgiving, are there any other plans to expand the line to say other holidays or seasonal themes?

我们会不会拿到查理手绘的图案，比如学校里那种火鸡手印，作为下次感恩节游戏的盒子？

Are we gonna get, like, tracings of, like, Charlie's hand for, like, you know, turkey the the hand turkeys that we all get in school as a box for our next Thanksgiving games.

其他有市场价值的季节。

Other marketable seasons.

你懂我意思吧？

You know what I mean?

对。

Yeah.

就像，那是另一回事。

Like, that's the other thing.

对吧？

Right?

我昨晚刚玩了boop游戏。

I mean, I just played boop last night.

太棒了。

So good.

万圣节版的boop。

The Halloween version of boop.

是啊。

And yeah.

万圣节超级有市场潜力。

Halloween is super marketable.

我...我觉得万圣节...

I I think Halloween is.

对。

Yeah.

所以答案是，当然可以。

So the answer is, sure.

我们有很多想法。

We have lots of ideas.

对吧？

Right?

我会告诉你其中一些。

And I I'll tell you some of them.

我们...我们看看你怎么想。

We'll we'll we'll see what you think.

但现实是，我们必须先做好手头的事，然后才能逐步扩展规模。

But the reality is we've gotta get really good at what we do here first, and then we can, you know, expand and scale that as we go.

比如说，我们想...我是说，首先，罐头就是个方向。

But like for instance, we wanna do a I mean, I have we have, first of all, tins are a thing.

你知道，我们很喜欢将其作为品牌的一部分。

You know, like, we like that as a part of our brand.

所以我们想在情人节推出装有两种骰子的心形小铁盒。

So we would love to do little heart tins for Valentine's Day with two types of dice.

一种是普通骰子，另一种是可食用骰子。

There's the regular dice, and then there's edible dice.

这样你就能吃到小小的巧克力骰子。

And so, like, you have little edible chocolate dice.

第一次玩的时候，基本上就是通过吃掉骰子来完成骰子淘汰赛——你需要什么点数就吃掉对应的骰子。

The first time you play, it's basically a dice elimination where you eat the dice as you kinda roll what you need.

然后你还有可以永久使用的其他骰子，但第一次玩时会得到巧克力骰子之类的。

And then you have the other dice you can play forever on, but, know, the first time you get the chocolate dice, stuff like that.

我们为感恩节准备了一些特别有趣的创意，还有一两个万圣节的点子。

We have some really fun ideas for Thanksgiving, and we've got one or two ideas for Halloween.

不过说实话，我们对万圣节没那么热衷。

Although, I'll tell you, Halloween for us, we're just not as passionate about it.

我和团队讨论时发现，这确实不是我们感兴趣的方向。

Like, it just when I talk to our team, it's just not that's not the thing we gravitate to.

所以我们想专注于做真正热爱的事，而参与其中的每个人都热爱圣诞节。

So we wanna try to stick to doing things that we're really passionate about, and everyone that's involved loves Christmas.

其中一位游戏设计师是Grant's Game Wrecks的格兰特·里昂，他说当我们提出这个想法时，他表示自己一直想做圣诞主题游戏。

You know, one of the people who designed one of the games is Grant Lyon of Grant's Game Wrecks, and, you know, he's saying he when we approached him with the idea, he said, I've been wanting to do a Christmas game forever.

现在我后备箱里就放着一套圣诞老人服装。

I have a Christmas suit in my trunk right now.

比如，他对圣诞节非常痴迷。

Like, he's obsessed with Christmas.

所以正好我们有一支对当前工作充满热情的团队，万圣节可能就不适合我们了。

So it just worked out that we have a team that's passionate about the things we're doing right now, So Halloween might not make it for us.

但是，你知道，如果有足够多的人表示他们真的很喜欢，我也可以学着对万圣节充满热情。

But, you know, and if enough people say they really love it, I can learn to be passionate about Halloween.

我只是从数学角度知道，这是一个非常庞大的消费群体。

I just I just know mathematically, it is a very large consumer.

因为它可能会超出范围。

Because it can bleed out past it.

对吧？

Right?

就像，一般来说可以超越节日本身。

Like, just That's general can be more than the holiday.

是的。

Yeah.

也有很棒的人在满足这个需求。

There's also great people serving that need.

Trick or Treat Studios就做了不少，不是吗？

Trick or Treat Studios does quite a few, don't they?

我觉得肯定有一些东西在满足这个需求。

Like like, I think there's there's some stuff out there serving that need for sure.

我认为就你提供的家庭友好型产品这类东西而言。

I I think in terms of what you're offering in terms of like family friendly and things like that.

好的。

Sure.

我觉得，我觉得这里有个细分市场。

I think there's I think there's a niche.

我觉得这里有个需求。

I think there's a a need.

嗯，森，你是设计游戏的。

Well, Sen, you design games.

是的。

I do.

你应该给我们做个万圣节游戏。

You shouldn't you should make us a Halloween game.

我们来做吧。

Let's make it.

好吧。

Alright.

我会给你做个万圣节游戏的。

I'll make you a Halloween Alright.

好吧。

Alright.

所以，我们要把话题拉回到你目前正在开发的游戏上，而不是那些长远的未来规划。

So, you know, we'll bring it back to kind of the games that you have currently, like, working on rather than all these, like, future long term perspective stuff.

在你测试这些游戏的过程中，有没有什么特别让你惊讶的事情或时刻？

Just as you were going through testing out these games, were there kind of any things or particular moments that really surprised you while you were, you know, working on them?

是的。

Yes.

有一个让我印象深刻。

There's one that comes to mind.

这是一款名为《欢乐翻转圣诞》的游戏，由格兰特·莱昂设计，我们协助开发。

So there's a game in the line called Merry Flipmas, and this one was done by Grant Lyon, and we helped develop it.

概念非常简单。

And the concept is really simple.

这是一款手牌管理游戏，你手中有许多印有圣诞歌手的卡牌，需要按正确顺序排列歌手才能让他们演唱歌曲，最终演唱最多歌曲的玩家获胜。

It's a hand management game where you have a bunch of Christmas singers on cards in your hand, and you have to get the right singers in the right order in your hand to, to be able to play them to sing songs, and you the most songs sung, so on and so forth, wins.

我们想教授这个机制，甚至不确定精通游戏机制的人是否知道它的专业名称。

The we wanted to teach the mechanic, and I don't even know someone out there who's really great at mechanics will know what this is called.

就像《侦察兵》《娜娜鸟居》《顺子》这些游戏，你的手牌基本固定不动，必须通过行动来调整卡牌位置。我们想通过这个游戏向家庭介绍这种逐年流行的新颖有趣玩法。

But if you look at, like, Scout and Nana Toridori and Jungo, and these games where basically, like, your hands are frozen in place, and you have to use actions to move those cards in your hand, we wanted something to teach that kind of mechanic of, you know, to introduce to families this new and fun way of play that's kind of growing every year, we're seeing more games like that.

这个游戏让我惊讶的是实现机制竟如此困难。

So that one, it really surprised me how hard it was to get that to work.

说实话，开发这种机制真的很有挑战性。

Like, that's a genuinely challenging mechanic to develop.

概念很简单。

The concept was simple.

我们设想的所有内容都很简单，但要让玩法既有趣又有成就感，花费的时间远超预期。

Everything we wanted to do was simple, but to make that fun and rewarding took way longer than I expected, you know.

格兰特是出色的设计师，斯科特是优秀的开发者，我们很幸运最终做出了这条产品线中我最爱的游戏。

And Grant's a great designer, Scott's a great developer, and we just got really lucky with came up with something that genuinely, it's my favorite game in the line.

我不喜欢，但它轻而易举成为我的最爱，因为操作很简单。

I don't like, it's easily my favorite because the actions are simple.

你可以翻转一张或多张牌，也可以弃掉一张牌，这就是全部操作。

You can flip a card or or multiple cards, and you can discard a card, and that's all you can do.

但通过这些简单操作，你的牌是双面的，所以背面内容通常与正面不同。

But with those simple actions, your cards are double sided, so there's something different on the back than on the front most times.

你可以创造任何想要的图案，能够解锁这个功能真是令人惊喜的时刻，开发它并使其易于上手真的很有趣。

You can make any pattern of anything you want, and like being able to to unlock that was a really surprising moment, and developing it and making it accessible was really fun.

所以我希望你能取得最大的成功。

So I hope you have, you know, the utmost success with this.

你知道的，我们的家人就是我们的家人。

You know you know, our family is our family.

对吧？

Right?

嗯哼。

So Mhmm.

当然，我希望我的家人能成功。

Of course, I want my family to be successful.

嗯哼。

Mhmm.

但乔丹，你个人如何定义成功的游戏？

But how do you, Jordan, personally define successful game?

什么能告诉你？

What will tell you?

用什么标准来衡量Garland游戏的成功？

What's the metric that's gonna say Garland games are a success?

我们刚在Kickstarter上发起众筹，虽然初期数据没达到预期，但这很正常。

We just launched on Kickstarter, and we're not like we don't have the numbers we want off the bat in our early Kickstarter.

那么，我们该如何界定这次是否成功呢？

And so, like, how do we define was this a success or not?

我们经营一家玩具游戏设计工作室，非常依赖其他公司和合作伙伴的青睐。

We run a toy and game design studio, and we are really reliant on other people in other companies wanting to make our things.

所以能独立完成创作本身就是一种成功，你明白吧。

So the fact that we're making something on our own is what is a success, you know.

第一年，让它问世。

Year one, make it exist.

第二年，让它更好。

Year two, make it better.

第三年，让它卓越，并持续发展。

Year three, make it great, and continue on.

能成功推出产品、启动项目并送到用户手中就是胜利。

So it's a success because we we got it out there, we're launching it, and we're gonna get it into people's hands.

这已经很了不起了。

That's incredible.

你知道的，数据嘛...人们总希望数字能再高些。

You know, numbers, we you you always want your number to be higher.

随便定个目标数字，你总会想翻倍的。

Pick a number, you wanna double it.

就是说，你处在人生的哪个阶段并不重要。

Like, it doesn't matter where you are in life.

选个数字，你想让它翻倍。

Pick a number, you wanna double it.

然后就像是，好吧。

And it's like, okay.

很棒。

Great.

但是，我们没法追求那个。

But, like, we can't chase that.

我们能追求的是：我们是否尽了全力，是否与所爱之人共事，是否给世界带来了能实现我们目标的新事物？

What we can chase is did we do our best, did we work with people we loved, and did we get something new into the world that accomplished one of our goals?

而我们的目标之一就是今年要掌控更多收入。

And one of our goals was control more of our revenue this year.

所以我们完成了所有这些事，而且整个过程非常有趣。

So we did all those things, and it's been a ton of fun doing.

老实说，我现在只想做圣诞游戏，这其实不太理想，因为我还有很多其他工作要做。

It's honestly kind of all I wanna do is make Christmas games now, which is not ideal because I have a lot of other work to do.

但这真的非常有成就感，我们将推出六款能挂在圣诞树上的新游戏，这太棒了。

But, like, it was tremendously rewarding, and we're gonna have a line of six new games that can hang on people's tree out, and that's awesome.

明年我们会再来一次。

We'll do it again next year.

我们会努力让数字变得更大。

We'll try to make, you know, make the number bigger.

但目前，我们正致力于打造真正出色且能实现目标的作品，同时也在制作我们自己真正喜欢玩的东西。

But right now, we're just trying to make things that are really great and that achieve our goals while, you know, making something we really enjoy playing.

幸运的是，这条产品线上的所有游戏我都非常喜欢玩。

And luckily, all the games in this line, I really enjoy playing.

纯粹出于好奇，因为你显然对这个领域做了大量研究。

So just out of curiosity because you obviously did a lot of research into this field.

当你在研究那些可能试图赶上圣诞档期的不同游戏时，过程中有没有发现什么特别有趣或精巧的东西？

As you're looking at different games that, you know, were maybe trying to be in the Christmas phase, did you actually discover anything kind of fun or neat along the way?

有。

Yes.

让我想想，有两个游戏立刻浮现在脑海中。

I let me think of there's two that come to mind.

有个比较小众的游戏。

There is a this is a smaller game.

对吧？

Right?

但它非常出色。

And it's but it's brilliant.

我不确定它是否得到了足够的关注。

And I don't know if it's getting enough attention.

有款小游戏，我甚至不记得名字了，但我们可以边聊边找找看。

But there's a small game, and I don't even remember the name of it, but I'll find it while we're on here.

是Marcus Ross开发的，作为Chris Couch Games在Kickstarter上Couch Games的附加内容，我马上就能找到它。

It's by Marcus Ross, and it was an add on for the Couch Games, Chris Couch Games Kickstarter, and I can find it here in just a moment.

但这是一款关于圣诞节的掷骰子游戏，真的非常棒，我真希望是我们出版的。

But it's a it's a dice rolling game about Christmas that is genuinely deeply good, and it's one that I wish we would have published.

我想，这大概是我能给出的最高赞誉了。

Like, that's, I guess, the bet that's the highest compliment I can give.

对吧？

Right?

我真希望是我出版的。

I I wish I would have published it.

它确实非常出色。

And it is phenomenal.

游戏时长十分钟，是我玩过最棒的骰子游戏之一，而且恰好以圣诞节为主题。

It's ten minutes long, and it's one of the best dice games I've ever played, and it happens to be about Christmas.

Marcus Ross设计的《铃儿响叮当骰》。

Jingle Bell Roll by Marcus Ross.

据我所知，它是另一个众筹项目的附加内容，但如果你能找到这款游戏，它真的非常棒。

And as far as I know, it's a it's a Kickstarter add on for another campaign, but if you can find this game, it's deeply good.

它是我玩过最棒的掷骰子游戏之一，而且恰好以圣诞节为主题。

Like, it's it's one of the best dice rolling games I've played, and it happens to be about Christmas.

所以

So

所以你很爱它。

So you love it.

确实。

I do.

我真的很喜欢它。

I really love it.

所以，乔丹，我们已经聊了很多关于圣诞节的话题，也讨论了不少关于花环游戏的内容。

So, Jordan, we've talked a lot about Christmas, and we've talked a lot about Garland games.

但独立玩具实验室领域还有什么新鲜事吗？

But what else is happening in the Indie Toy Lab scene?

这个领域真的存在吗？

Is there is there a scene?

有一个小圈子。

There's a small scene.

我们有几个在Intro Lab工作的人。

There's there's a few of us that work at Intro Lab.

我们全年都在设计玩具和游戏，不只是为了圣诞节。

We designed toys and games all all year round, not just for Christmas.

就新品发布而言，我们今年过得相当不错，但你不能总是依赖这个，因为这个行业要让产品落地和生产实在太具挑战性了——有时你会有丰收年，有时则是低谷年，这真的无法掌控。

We're having having a pretty good year in terms of launches and releases, but, like, you can't ever just, like, rely on that because the industry is such a challenge to get stuff placed and to get stuff made that sometimes you have great years, sometimes you have bad years, you really can't control that.

你唯一能控制的是：你是否热爱自己制作的东西，以及你是否大量创作。

All you can control is do you love what you're making and do you make a lot of it.

但我们今年有个大计划。

But we have a big year this year.

我们即将推出一款《汪汪队立大功》玩具。

We've got a Paw Patrol toy that's coming out.

这真的非常令人兴奋。

It's It's really exciting.

这是一款电子毛绒玩具，能守护你的房间、与你交流，还能通过这些小型对讲机和你玩游戏，确实是个非常酷的玩具。

It's an electronic plush that guards your room and communicates with you and plays games with these little walkie talkies with you and, you know, is a it's a really cool toy.

我们推出了Play Doh烤架玩具，就是那个刚上市的巨型Play Doh烤架，我们对此感到非常兴奋。

We have the Play Doh grill, the giant Play Doh grill that just came out as ours, so we're really excited about that.

实际上我们这周在芝加哥还因此入围了几个奖项的评选。

We're up for a couple awards for that this week actually in Chicago.

所以这既让人兴奋又充满乐趣。

So that's kind of exciting and fun.

我们有一款你提到的谋杀推理游戏，叫做《死亡方式》，是与Goliath公司合作的。

We have a murder mystery game, the one you mentioned, that's called Manner of Death and that's with Goliath.

我们刚推出一款孩之宝的游戏，叫做《垃圾变餐桌》。

We have a Hasbro game that just came out, it's called Trash to Table.

就像你知道的，我们还有很多其他产品。

So it's like, you know, we have and there's more.

我就不一一列举了。

I'm not mentioning them all.

我应该更谨慎些。

I should be a little more careful.

但我们今年确实有一大堆新品要发布。

But we have a bunch of stuff coming out this year.

更重要的是，我们已经在高效创作方面找到了节奏，做出了许多让我们引以为豪的作品。

And more than that, we've just hit kind of our stride of efficiency in terms of making things that we really are proud of.

我们成立了一个专门研发电子游戏的电子游戏部门，在渠道铺货方面取得了巨大成功。

You know, we've we started an electronics games division that really focuses on electronic games, and that's been really successful in terms of placement.

是啊。

So yeah.

关于在那个环境下运营或工作的任何问题都可以问，因为那和业余游戏环境完全不同。

And any questions you have about what it's like to run or work in that environment, because it is different than the hobby game environment.

比如，知道吧

Like, know

哦，对。

Oh, yeah.

Garland Games更侧重于业余爱好领域，或许最终会有些大众市场的延伸，可能吧，大概率不会。

Garland Games is is much more focused on hobby, and may have some mass carryover eventually, maybe, probably not.

但当我们为大客户工作时，那完全是大众市场，规则也完全不同。

But when we work for big clients, that's all mass market, and the rules are totally different in that world.

天差地别。

Couldn't be less similar.

是的。

Yes.

Erica很了解他们。

Erica knows them well.

确实。

I do.

她确实了解。

She does.

Erica，你有在这个播客里聊过你在大众市场的经历吗？

Do you ever talk about your experiences in mass on on this podcast, Erica?

你觉得那是你会深入探讨的事情吗？

Do you feel like that's something that you dive into?

在某些地方。

In in places.

就是说，它可能相关，但并非无处不在。

Like, it can be relevant, not everywhere.

是啊。

Yeah.

这太不一样了。

It's so different.

太难了。

It's so hard.

而且非常不同。

And very different.

嗯。

Yeah.

呃，我我是说，也许有一天我们该这么做。

Well, I I I mean, maybe one day one day we should do that.

找一群蒙面人来，让他们来破除所有谣言。

Get a bunch of the masked people on and and have them, like, dispel all the myths.

对。

Yeah.

没错。

Yeah.

我们或许能拼写，却未必能驱散它们。

We may spell we may not dispel them.

我们或许能拼写它们。

We may spell them.

比如，它们可能是真实的。

Like, they may be true.

这这真是个充满挑战的事情。

It's a it's a real challenging thing.

是啊。

Yeah.

你你意识不到自己实际上被隔绝了多少，因为这并非易事可转化之物。

You you don't realize how much you're genuinely cut off from because it's not an easy translatable thing.

对吧？

Right?

就像，向体验中堆砌素材要容易得多，但当你受到极大限制时，要达到同等体验水平就完全是另一个层次的困难了。

Like, it's it's so much easier to throw stuff at an experience, but when you are incredibly limited, you're hitting a whole other level of hard to create the same experience.

没错。

Yeah.

我们我们说得含糊其辞是因为，就像，这这这是你不能谈论所有事情，因为参与这些项目时你签了生死状，但事实是你要求一家公司不仅要——当我们制作加兰游戏时，或是为某个业余游戏发行商制作游戏时，我们会让你承担一千份的风险。

We're we're speaking in vagaries because it's like, it's it's it's you can't talk about everything because you sign your life away when you work on these projects, but the truth is you're asking a company to not just like, when we when we make Garland games, or when we make a game for a, you know, a hobby game publisher, we're gonna tell you to take a thousand unit risk.

你要生产一千份、一万份或随便多少。

You're gonna make a thousand units, 10,000 units or whatever.

当我们你你可能要冒数十万或数万美元的风险，但当你为一个非常非常非常大的品牌设计时，你是在要求他们承担数百万美元的风险，然后这就完全是另一套审批流程了。

When we're you you may be risking hundreds of thousands of dollars or tens of thousands of dollars, but when you design for a really, really, really big brand, you're asking them to make a many millions of dollars risk, like and then that's a whole different chain of approvals.

让我给你讲讲这个审批链的故事。

And let me tell you a story about that chain of approvals.

每个人都有意见，而且他们都像是你的上司。

Everybody's got opinions, and they're all your boss.

所以这就像，完全是个不同的环境。

So it's like, it's just a different environment.

你实际上是在创造产品而不是游戏。

You're you're really creating products and not games.

我是说，确实如此。

Like, you I mean, that's true.

我们不是在设计游戏，而是在设计产品。

Like, we you're not designing games, you're designing products.

这非常不同，也更具挑战性。

And that's very different and harder.

难度更大。

It's harder.

不是说要，呃，我得谨慎使用'更难'这个词。

Not to say, like, I I need to be careful with the word harder.

设计一款出色的休闲游戏本身就非常困难。

Designing a great hobby game is very hard.

这是不同层次的限制。

It's a different level of constraint.

就是这样

That's what

确实如此。

it is.

对于一款爱好游戏来说，总会有更多打磨工作要做，但当你能说'我想强化这个功能，直接添加些内容就行'时，事情就简单多了。

There'll always be more grind out for a hobby game, but it's easier when you can say, oh, I wanna enhance this and I can just add something Yes.

比起知道如果要为不同等级添加内容，就必须大幅削减其他部分来得轻松。

Than knowing that if I were to add anything for a different level, you better take a whole lot else out.

这就像一种平衡。

There's like a balance.

你总结得非常到位。

You've summarized it perfectly.

在我看来，让量产游戏持续保持高质量的关键难点在于——你不能随意添加内容。

The diff the key difference that makes, in my mind, more challenging to consistently come out with masked games is you can't add anything.

比如，它必须符合特定的价格定位。

Like, it has to hit a price point.

而在优秀的爱好游戏中，如果我们有个好主意——比如添加这个芯片或那五个米宝棋子能让游戏体验提升十倍，我们就能这么做，因为知道价格上调几美元也无妨。

Whereas if in a great hobby game, if we have an idea and this would you know, adding this chip or this these five meeples would make the game 10 x better, we can do that because we know we can stretch the price up a couple dollars, and it'll be fine.

但在量产领域，你会受到严格的成本限制。

In the mass world, you're cut hard on a price limit.

必须控制在X美元——经常是X美分——才能实现，所有设计都必须符合这个预算，这确实是种完全不同的挑战。

Like, it's gotta be x dollars or oftentimes x cents, to to get it done, and everything you do has to fit within that budget, and it's just it's just a different kind of challenge for sure.

在我们进入快速问答环节前——毕竟时间差不多了——有什么特别想分享的兴奋事项吗？

Well, before we jump in into, I guess, our lightning round, because we're kinda come to the end, is there anything you're really excited about that you wanted to mention before we move on?

我只想说我们正在Kickstarter上众筹，现在我的全部精力都集中在这件事上。

All I would say is we're on Kickstarter right now, and and, like, all I have the bandwidth to think about is that.

如果整场对话都围绕着圣诞节展开，我为此道歉。

And so I apologize if this conversation has been rooted in Christmas the whole time.

这就是我们的主题。

That was our theme.

人们真正谈论或思考圣诞游戏的频率有多高？

How often do people genuinely talk about or think about Christmas games?

确实如此。

That's true.

效果非常好。

It worked out great.

但我们正在Kickstarter上。

But we're on Kickstarter.

项目名叫Garland Games。

It's called Garland Games.

你可以在Kickstarter上搜索Garland Games找到我们，或者直接访问garland.games（不是.com后缀），就能直达页面。

You can search Garland Games on Kickstarter and find us and, you know, you can just go to garland.games, not.com, garland.games, and that'll get you there.

是的，这就是我目前专注的事情。

And, yeah, that's really what's on my mind.

今天我能想到的就这些了。

That's all I have time to think about today.

好的。

Alright.

那么，我想现在该进入Ludological闪电问答环节了。

Well, with that, I think it's time for the Ludological Lightning Round.

现在你的听众看不到这个，但我们的台词本上写着：播放雷声效果音。

Now your listeners can't see this, but in the transcript that tells us what to do, it just says, send lightning sound.

哦，我们轮流来。

Oh, we alternate.

这是我最爱的环节。

It's my favorite.

好的。

Alright.

好的。

Alright.

第一个问题：除了圣诞节，你最喜欢的节日是什么？

First question, what is your favorite holiday other than Christmas?

因为我们聊了很多关于圣诞节的话题。

Because we talked a lot about Christmas.

你还喜欢庆祝什么节日？

What else do like to celebrate?