113. 纠正世界

感谢您选择卢克的英语播客。

Thank you for choosing Luke's English podcast.

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For more episodes with specific vocabulary and pronunciation teaching, plus ad free listening, access to the premium community, and to show your support for the podcast, sign up to LEP Premium at teacherluke.co.uk/premium.

您正在收听卢克的英语播客。

You're listening to Luke's English podcast.

如需更多信息，请访问 teacherluke.podomatic.com。

For more information, visit teacherluke.podomatic.com.

大家好，听众朋友们，欢迎收听卢克英语播客第113期。

Hello, listeners, and welcome to episode number 113 of Luke's English podcast.

这一期的主题是‘纠正世界’。

And this one is called setting the world to rights.

那么这个表达是什么意思呢？

So what does this expression mean?

根据麦克米伦词典的解释，它指的是与某人进行一场对话，交换对各种话题的看法，尤其是关于如何解决社会问题的看法。

Well, according to the Macmillan dictionary, it means to have a conversation with someone in which you exchange opinions on a range of subjects, especially opinions on how to solve society's problems.

这正是我在本集中所做的事情。

That's exactly what I did in this episode.

听好了，你会听到我和我的同事伊蒙进行对话。

Listen, and you'll hear me engaging in conversation with a colleague of mine named Eamon.

我们去酒吧喝了一杯，结果聊起了如何改变世界。

We went to the pub for a quick pint and ended up setting the world to rights.

伊蒙是个非常聪明有趣的人，我相信你们会喜欢听我们的对话。

Eamon is a very intelligent and interesting guy, and I'm sure you'll enjoy listening in on our conversation.

我决定，如果你能读懂我们在这集中使用的某些表达，会对你们大有帮助。

I've decided it will help you immensely if you can read some of the phrases we use in this episode.

因此，我把许多这些表达整理成了一份清单，你可以在网站上找到，我相信你现在一定还记得网站是 teachaluke.podomatic.com。

And so I've written many of those things in a list, which you can find on the website, which I'm sure you have remembered by now is teachaluke.podomatic.com.

前往第113集，你会看到伊蒙和我在对话中使用的表达列表。

Go to episode 113, and you'll see a list of expressions which Eamon and I used in our conversation.

你可以浏览这些表达，确保完全理解它们的含义。

And what you can do is just have a look at those expressions and make sure that you understand exactly what they mean.

当你再次聆听时，你就能完全理解我们对话中的每一句话。

And then when you listen again, you'll fully understand everything that we say in our conversation.

所以，我的介绍就差不多到这里了，现在你可以放松下来，享受这次访谈。

So that's pretty much it from me in this introduction, and now you can settle down and enjoy the interview.

大家好。

Hello, ladies and gentlemen.

你正在收听的是Luke英语播客的另一期节目。

You're listening to another episode of Luke's English podcast.

猜猜怎么着？

And guess what?

你可能会听到背景里有些音乐。

Might hear some music in the background.

因为我正坐在一家酒吧里。

That's because I'm sitting in a pub.

现在你可能会觉得，从我最近几期节目的内容来看，我整天不是在酒吧里，就是在酒吧附近，或者想着要去酒吧。

Now you might get the impression from what I've been doing in the last few episodes that I spend my whole life either in pubs, near pubs, or thinking about going to pubs.

但这并不是真的。

But it's not really true.

只是在英国，这些地方是很好的消遣去处。

It's just that they're quite good places to hang out in England.

通常，这些地方是人们聚会的地点。

Often, these are the meeting points.

这些是我们与他人共度时光的地方。

These are the places that we spend time with with, other people.

所以我恰好在一家酒吧里。

So I happen to be in a pub.

如果你听到音乐，那在酒吧里是很正常的。

If you hear music, that's normal in a pub.

总有一些轻柔的背景音乐在播放。

There's always a bit of light background music going on.

所以你可能听到的就是背景里的那种声音。

So that's probably what you can hear in the in the background there.

在这一集中，我和埃蒙在一起，他是我同事。

Now in this episode, I'm with, Eamon, who's, someone I work with.

目前我就坐在他旁边，在教师休息室里。

I sit next to him at the moment, in the teacher's room.

我觉得他是个非常出色的谈话者，所以我想请他跟我们、跟我、跟你们这些听众聊一聊，出现在卢克的英语播客中。

And, so I thought, because, he's an excellent conversationalist, I thought that I would, ask him to, talk to us, talk to me, and talk to you, the listeners, on Luke's English podcast.

我相信他非常荣幸且乐意加入我们。

I'm sure he's, privileged and delighted to to join us.

你好，埃蒙。

So hello, Eamon.

大家好。

Hi, everyone.

是的。

Yes.

这是一次非常愉快的体验，很好。

It's a it's a it's a pleasure Good.

能来这里。

To be here.

是的，接下来交给你了，卢克。

And, yep, over to you, Luke.

我是主持人。

I am the host.

所以，你知道的，每当你不知道接下来该说什么的时候，就把手机直接对准我就行了。

So, you know, anytime you you you wonder what to say next, just just, just point it point the phone back to me.

没关系。

That's fine.

你的名字是埃蒙·沙纳汉。

So your name's Eamon Shanahan.

对吧？

Right?

这不像是一个爱尔兰名字吗？

Now that isn't that an Irish name?

是的。

Yes.

是的，卢克。

It is, Luke.

这是一个爱尔兰名字。

It's an Irish name.

Eamon 是 Edmund 的爱尔兰语形式。

Eamon is Irish for Edmund.

当然，我以爱尔兰共和国的第一任总统埃蒙·德·瓦莱拉命名，我们认为他是个糟糕的人。

And, of course, I was named the first president of the Irish Republic, Eamon de Valera, who we thought was a horrible man.

所以是的。

So yeah.

但他无疑是一位标志性人物。

But he was nonetheless, an iconographic figure.

而且，Eamon 这个名字其实相当不错。

And, Eamon is quite, it's quite a nice name, actually.

这些年来，这是我最喜欢自己的地方。

Throughout the the years, it's been the one thing about myself I've always liked.

肯定还有其他你喜欢自己的地方吧，伊蒙。

The the the one thing surely, there are other things that you like about yourself, Eamon, though.

嗯，我想也还好吧。

Well, I guess that's alright.

那只是开个玩笑而已。

That was just a bit of a joke.

是的。

Yeah.

伊蒙·沙纳汉。

Eamon Shanahan.

是的。

Yeah.

一个非常爱尔兰的名字。

A very Irish name.

好的。

Okay.

所以，但你是爱尔兰人还是英国人，或者别的？

So, but, are you Irish or British or what?

因为你住过很多年，在英国生活了很久。

Because you you live in you have lived a lot of your life in The UK.

但你是英国人还是爱尔兰人？

But are you British or are you Irish?

什么是

What's

嗯，我把自己视为英国人。

Well, I consider myself British.

爱尔兰裔英国人，如果你愿意这么说的话。

Irish British, if you like.

我出生并成长于伦敦。

I was born and raised in London.

而且，我相信许多现在正在听的人会认为，伦敦常被描述为一座伟大的超级城市。

And, as I'm sure many of, people who are listening now, London is often described as one of the great super cities.

它几乎自成一种文化。

It's almost a culture in its own right.

它几乎就像一个独立的国家。

It's almost a country in its own right.

我感觉我在伦敦文化中非常自在，但一旦离开伦敦，去到一些英国的小村庄，我就会意识到我和周围人的成长背景之间存在文化差异，尤其是在我家里的成长环境。

And, I feel where I I feel very at home in London culture, if I leave London, and go into sort of small English villages, I do become aware of a cultural distinction between my upbringing, certainly in my home, and the upbringing of those around me.

在典型的英国环境中，我确实会感到自己是爱尔兰人，但在伦敦，我不会。

And and I do feel Irish in typically English situations, but in London, I don't.

我只是觉得我完全属于这座城市。

I just feel part of of this city very much.

那么，你觉得真正的英国身份，或者说真正让英国成为英国的东西，不在伦敦，而是在乡村地区吗？

So do you feel like the real British identity or sort of what really makes Britain British is found not in London, but maybe in rural parts of the country?

你这么认为吗？

Do you think so?

不。

No.

我觉得英国特色存在于大城市，比如伦敦、格拉斯哥、都柏林。

I feel what's British is found in the big cities, you know, like London, Glasgow, Dublin.

小心点。

What's Care careful.

都柏林不在英国。

Dublin's not in Britain.

可能会有一些听众对此非常敏感。

There might be listeners who get very tetchy about that.

好的。

Okay.

对于那些敏感的听众，我想说，好吧。

Well, to the tetchy listeners, I would say that, there's okay.

爱尔兰南北之间存在政治上的区别。

There's a political distinction between the North and South of Ireland.

但事实上，如果你看看这些岛屿的历史，我们彼此交织在一起，无论是愉快的还是不愉快的。

But in fact, if you look at the history of these islands, we're all intertwined, you know, happily and unhappily.

当然。

Sure.

但那是历史了。

But that's history.

但对我来说，英国人的想象力包含了爱尔兰、威尔士、苏格兰和英格兰，以各种方式，你知道的，好吧。

But for me, the British, well, the British imagination includes Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and England in various, you know Okay.

这些年来不断组合变化。

Combinations over the years.

然后还有伦敦。

And then there's London.

伦敦。

London.

伦敦。

London.

我

I

我感觉你喜欢伦敦。

get the feeling you like London.

对吧？

Right?

是的。

Yeah.

没错。

Yep.

好的。

Alright.

你现在是英语老师，但你是怎么成为英语老师的呢，伊蒙？

Now you're an English teacher, but how how did you end up being an English teacher then, Eamon?

嗯。

Mhmm.

好的。

Okay.

我上了大学，学习了语言，法语和西班牙语。

I went to university and studied languages, French and Spanish.

大学毕业后，我的本意是不想去找工作。

And when I left university, it was my intention to avoid going into a job.

那时候，幸运的是，学生有很多资金支持。

And in those days, happily, there was plenty of money available for students.

我们称之为助学金，那时候还没有贷款。

We called them grants, and we didn't have loans.

所以我成功申请到了一笔助学金，去读法律研究生课程。

So I managed to secure a grant to study law, a postgraduate law course.

于是，就像年轻人常做的那样，我没有多想就报名了这个课程，发现还挺有意思的。

So without thinking very much about it, as one does when one is young, I just enrolled in this course and found it quite interesting.

可惜的是，两年后，我不得不去当律师。

Unfortunately, after two years, I had to go and be a lawyer.

这就是我进入这个世界的开端，我渐渐成长起来，做了四年律师。

And, this is my introduction to the world, and I kinda grew up a bit, and for four years worked as a lawyer.

我不是一个很称职的律师，也不是一个很快乐的律师。

I wasn't a very good lawyer, and I wasn't a very happy lawyer.

于是我决定改变方向，转行去教书。

And I decided to change from there, and I got into teaching.

我开始在大学教法律。

I started teaching law at university.

后来我又开始教英语，因为作为外语的英语当时正在蓬勃发展，伦敦的工作很容易找。

And then I started teaching English because it was, English as a foreign language was beginning to boom, and jobs were easy to get in London.

我的生活方式变得越来越放纵。

And, my lifestyle was becoming increasingly dissolute.

等等。

And Wait.

等等。

Wait.

你介意我问一下，你这么说是什么意思吗？

What what would do you mind if I ask you what what do you mean by that?

放荡的意思，我想，大概是我不太想早起，而且我真的很享受午夜之后的生活。

Well, dissolute means, I suppose, well, I I suppose, it's sort of, you know, I I didn't really wanna get up early in the morning, and, I really did enjoy life after midnight.

那时候伦敦过得非常精彩。

And, London was having a great time.

那是二十世纪八十年代。

This was the nineteen eighties.

是的。

Yeah.

你知道，同性恋权利开始兴起，通宵派对、锐舞音乐、舞曲，那真是狂欢的好时光。

You know, gay rights are coming out, you know, all night partying, rave music, dance music, and it was just a great time to party.

你知道，人根本没时间工作。

And, you know, one simply didn't have the time to work.

所以等一下。

So wait a minute.

律师的生活真的很辛苦，对吧？

You the the the life of a lawyer lawyer is is quite hard, isn't it?

因为你得长时间工作，压力很大，特别是当你需要在法庭上出庭、在法官面前发言，或者撰写非常重要文件的时候。

Because you have to work long hours and it's like there's a lot of pressure, especially if you have to, I don't know, sort of present present in courts or, you know, talk in front of a judge or even just write very, very important documents and things.

但你真正想做的却是出去聚会，嗯。

But what you wanted to do was go out and party Mhmm.

那时候大概是1999年吧。

Like it was 1999, I suppose.

没错。

Absolutely.

是的。

Yeah.

那么，当律师的哪些方面具体不适合你呢？

What was it what was it exactly about being a lawyer that that didn't suit you then?

职业结构和工作狂文化。

The career structure and and the workaholic culture.

我的意思是，这真的太荒谬了。

I mean, it is, it's just, you know, it's just ridiculous, really.

你得把一生都花在工作上。

You have to spend all your life working.

当你不工作的时候，你还在从工作中恢复。

And when you weren't working, you were recovering from work.

你知道的？

You know?

你累得都没力气去爱了，而我可不想这样，对吧？

You were too tired to love, and, I wasn't gonna have that, was I?

绝不可能。

No way.

绝对不行，先生。

No way, sir.

好吧。

Okay.

所以，你当了英语老师之后，是在伦敦教书，还是也在其他国家教过？

So have you did you so after becoming an English teacher, did you just teach in in London, or did you teach in other countries?

我多年来只在伦敦教书。

I taught in London only for years.

事实上，直到大约五六年前三我搬到克罗地亚，之后就一直在那里教书。

And in fact, up until about five or six years ago when I moved to Croatia, and I've been teaching over there now.

我在两地之间来回教学。

And I teach between the two places.

是什么吸引你去了克罗地亚？

What was it about Croatia that attracted you?

为什么偏偏是克罗地亚呢？

Why why Croatia of all places?

主要是因为我美丽的妻子是克罗地亚人，自从我认识她之后，我就一直去那个国家。

Well, principally, my very beautiful wife who comes from Croatia, and it was a country I've been going to for years since I met her.

而且，我也确实被它吸引了。

And, also, I was attracted yes.

正如你可能已经了解到的，我大部分成年生活都在逃避正经工作，除了偶尔当过一阵子律师。

I've devoted as you might have gathered, I've devoted a large part of my adult life avoiding proper jobs, apart from the odd blip as a lawyer.

你是说当英语老师不算正经工作吗？

Are you saying that being an English teacher isn't a proper job?

当然了，卢克。

Absolutely, Luke.

是的。

Yes.

我就是这个意思。

I am.

好吧。

Okay.

不是。

No.

我想说的是，很抱歉。

I think what it is, being sorry.

不。

No.

那有点开玩笑。

That was a bit facetious.

不。

No.

英语教学可以是一份非常严肃的工作，前提是你愿意把它当回事，但它也能为你提供非常灵活的工作结构。

English teaching can be a very serious job if you want it to be, but it can also be offer you a very flexible working structure.

我妻子也有类似的感受。

And my wife felt similarly.

当我们开始组建家庭时，你知道，我们都希望深度参与孩子的养育，而且我们也挺喜欢彼此作伴的。

When we started to have a family, we, you know, we both of us wanted to be very involved in in bringing our children up, and we also quite liked each other's company.

我们希望经常见面。

We wanted to see a lot of each other.

所以我们以很低的价格在克罗地亚买了一些房产，这意味着我们不必那么拼命工作。

So we we managed to buy some property in Croatia quite cheaply, and that meant that we didn't have to work so much.

所以我们过着不错的生活方式，是的。

So we have a good lifestyle Yeah.

从这个意义上说。

In that sense.

我对你这种生活方式印象深刻，因为你每年能花大部分时间在克罗地亚的房产里，我知道那是一个美丽的国家，有很多可玩可看的东西。

I I I'm I'm impressed by your lifestyle because you get to spend sort of large parts of the year in your property in Croatia, which I understand is a beautiful country with, like, a lot of things to offer.

然后你时不时会回到伦敦，回到伦敦英语学校，偶尔上几节课。

And then every now and then you can come back to London and come back to the London School of English and do the odd course here and then.

这似乎非常适合你，我觉得。

It it seems to suit you very well, I think.

是的。

Yeah.

不。

No.

确实如此。

It does.

是的。

Yeah.

我非常开心。

I'm very happy.

克罗地亚是一个复杂的国家。

And Croatia is a complicated country.

正如人们所说，它非常美丽。

It is very beautiful as people say, you know.

它拥有绝佳的海岸线等等，但同时也是一种深陷困境的文化。

It's got great coast line and stuff, but it's also a deeply troubled culture.

我有时会担心，带孩子们在那里长大会不会亏待了他们。

And I sometimes worry that, maybe I'm shortchanging my children by bringing them up there.

但我安慰自己说，如今的文化更少是草根的，而更多是被媒介塑造的。

But I console myself that, these days, culture is less grassroots and more mediated.

我的意思是，我认为我的孩子和克罗地亚的青少年，实际上正经历着与上海、纽约以及英格兰德文郡小镇青年非常相似的体验。

And what I mean by that is that I think that my children, and the youth of Croatia are having actually very similar experiences to the youth of Shanghai, New York, and small towns in Devon, England.

这是因为文化越来越多地通过网络和互联网来传递。

And this is because increasingly culture is mediated through the web and the Internet.

所以也许我的孩子们并不会那么吃亏。

And so maybe my children won't be, you know, so shortchanged.

你觉得，即使他们生活在克罗地亚，也能参与一种国际文化，是吗？

You think you think that even though they're in Croatia, they will still be able to participate in a kind of international culture.

你的意思是，他们不会因为没住在伦敦而错过那些本可能错过的体验，因为他们可以通过互联网获取一切，对吧？

They they won't miss out on the things that they might miss out on if they weren't living in London because they can get it all through the Internet, you mean.

好的。

Okay.

明白了。

Alright.

那克罗地亚的生活怎么样？

So what about life in Croatia?

我的意思是，咱们聊聊一些日常的事情吧。

I mean, let's just talk about some everyday things.

这和伦敦的生活有什么不同吗？

Is it different to life in in London?

你有没有发现一些，比如说，你在克罗地亚生活时觉得不同或奇怪的共同点？

And have you found any, let's say, have you found any, like, common things that you find different or strange about living in Croatia?

是的。

Yes.

克罗地亚是个非常不同的地方。

Croatia is a very different place.

我想首先要说的是，与伦敦相比，它是一种地方性文化。

And I think the first thing to say about it is it's it's compared to London, it's a provincial culture.

伦敦是一个非常都市化的地方。

London is a very urbane place.

当我往返于两地之间时，我发现，如果我在克罗地亚待久了，再回到伦敦，我的第一印象总是相同的，而且总是非常强烈。

And I find, when I come, travel between the two, when I've been in Croatia for a long time and I come to London, my first impression is always the same, and it's always quite strong.

伦敦人看起来非常成熟、独立且富有表现力。

London people seem very grown up, independent, and expressive.

当我回到克罗地亚时，你会发现克罗地亚人总体上更拘谨。

And when I go back to Croatia, you know, I I find Croatians, you know, basically more inhibited.

他们没有被允许像伦敦人那样在智力、精神和社会层面充分成长。

You know, they haven't been allowed to to grow internally, you know, intellectually, spiritually, and socially in a way that that that Londoners have.

事情就是这么简单。

And it's it's basic as that, really.

是的。

Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

好的。

Okay.

但我的意思是，从更基本的层面来看，有没有一些细节？

But I mean, on a sort of more, let's say, on a more basic level, are there little details?

因为当我去其他地方时，也许只是因为我并不总是那么深刻，而我感觉你有时却很深刻。

Because when I go to other places, I mean, maybe it's just because my I I'm not always on the sort of I'm I'm not always as profound as as I get the impression you are sometimes.

我发现我会注意到一些小细节，比如他们如何布置公寓，或者在公共交通工具上的行为方式，诸如此类的事情。

I find that I noticed little things like, I don't know, like the way that they organize their apartments or the way that they behave on public transport, things like that.

例如，在日本的火车上，文化规范是不要发出任何声音，保持安静，非常尊重他人，尽量不打扰别人。

For example, in in Japan on the on the trains, the culture is that you don't make any noise and that you're very silent and that you're very respectful of other people and you're very sort of, you know, keep yourself to yourself.

你把自己的私事藏得很好。

You keep your private things private.

但与此同时，躺在火车上睡着，头靠在陌生人肩膀上，这也很正常。

And yet at the same time, it's quite normal to fall asleep on the train and fall asleep with your head on the shoulder of a stranger.

这没什么问题。

And that's okay.

这种对私人空间的侵犯完全是可以接受的，但跟陌生人谈论他们的私生活却是绝对不可想象的。

That that kind of invasion of privacy is perfectly okay, but talking to a stranger about their personal life would be, like, really out of the question.

在伦敦也是类似，你不会跟陌生人谈论他们的私生活，但你绝对也不会把头靠在他们的肩膀上睡觉，因为那会严重侵犯他们的个人空间。

So similar in London that you wouldn't talk to a stranger about their personal life, but but you certainly wouldn't fall asleep with your head on their shoulder because that would be a huge invasion of their perp their personal space.

这就是我所发现的日本文化在一些细微具体方面的不同之处。

So that's an example of the way in which I find Japanese culture to be different in just a sort of little specific way.

好的。

Okay.

你在克罗地亚有没有注意到类似的情况？

Have you noticed anything like that in Croatia?

是的。

Yeah.

我注意到了。

I have.

同样，最明显的一点是，我年轻时的伦敦以粗鲁和不友好著称。

Again, the the biggest one is I I find London, which in when I was young, London had a reputation for being a rather rude and unfriendly city.

但我认为这种情况已经改变了。

But I think that's changed.

我觉得现在的伦敦比年轻时更加明亮、更富人情味。

I think London's become a a kind of a brighter, happier community to when I was young.

是的。

Yeah.

而且非常有礼貌，你知道的，非常有教养。

And and very polite, you know, very well mannered.

当我回到克罗地亚时，人们的举止太糟糕了。

And when I go back to Croatia, the manners are dreadful.

你知道吗？

You know?

克罗地亚人一向以粗鲁无礼、脾气暴躁而闻名。

And Croats have a bad reputation for being ill mannered and surly.

据我所知，这两种说法都有道理。

And as far as I can tell, both are justified.

真的吗？

Really?

但你说伦敦似乎变得更明亮、更快乐了，诸如此类。

But you said that London seems to be brighter and sort of happier and all that sort of thing.

但我想说的是，大概是去年吧。

But what about, I think it was last year.

是去年吗？

Was it last year?

我们那时候发生了暴乱，对吧？

We had the riots, didn't we?

确实如此。

Indeed.

伦敦很多地区几乎都在燃烧，是的。

And large parts of London were sort of basically burning Yeah.

许多显然非常不满的人决定开始砸毁一切。

As a lot of very, apparently, very unhappy people started decided that they would smash the place up.

是的。

Yeah.

现在那里发生了什么？

Now what's going on there?

你说得对。

Do you does Right.

你不觉得这表明伦敦其实并不那么幸福吗？

Don't don't you think that shows that London isn't really that happy?

很高兴你提到这一点，卢克。

I'm very glad you mentioned that, Luke.

事实上，当时我和我的家人正在伦敦。

In fact, I was in London at the time with my family.

你没有参与暴乱吧？

And You weren't involved in the riots, were you?

我当时离暴乱地点非常近。

I was very close to them.

我和家人在图廷。

I was in Tooting with my family.

当一切爆发时，我正在外面确保所有门窗都锁好，并且我确保自己带了武器。

And when it all kicked off, I was outside making sure everything was locked, and I make sure I was armed.

你知道的，那简直像西部荒野一样。

You know, it was Wild West stuff.

所以我确实经历了那些非常不舒服的日子。

So, I really did experience those those very uncomfortable days.

我认为那个周一晚上，我们都相当害怕，因为当时伦敦的警察明显不足以应对正在发生的事情。

And I think the Monday night, we were all pretty frightened because there obviously weren't enough policemen in London to deal with what was what was happening.

是的。

And yeah.

好的。

Okay.

我认为伦敦如今比我还年轻的时候富裕多了。

And I think London is also a much, much richer town than when I was young.

我年轻的时候，百万富翁是名人。

When I was young, a millionaire was a celebrity.

如今，他们到处都是。

These days, they're all over the place.

你知道，你得是亿万富翁才能引起注意。

You know, you have to be a billionaire to get noticed.

随之而来的是富人与穷人之间的巨大差距。

And with that has come this discrepancy between the rich and the poor.

我认为那些骚乱是那些感觉自己被排除在富裕进程之外的人们的一种典型表现。

And I think those riots were a classic manifestation of people who felt that they had been left out of, the enrichment process.

他的价值观不知怎的已经变质，变得极其物质化，你知道，他们只是想要运动鞋。

And his values had somehow become had curdled and become, very material, you know, and they just wanted the trainers.

你知道，这非常令人失望。

You know, it's very disappointing.

我的意思是，如果这是一场关于工作条件或生活条件的骚乱，我们当然会支持。

I mean, if it had been a riot about, you know, working conditions or living conditions, we would have got behind it, of course.

但事实并非如此。

But, it wasn't.

他们只是偷东西。

They just stole stuff.

我感觉这场骚乱最初是作为一种抗议，抗议警方在城市某些地区对待民众的方式。

I get the impression that it started as a way of, it started as a kind of protest against the way in which the police were treating people in certain parts of the city.

在那之后，事情演变成了一场全面的抢掠，人们趁机洗劫商店之类的。

And then on the back of that, it just became a a free for all, you know, a chance for people to just loot shops and things.

你提到那些觉得自己被排除在消费文化之外的人，这很有意思。

Interesting what you said about these people who don't feel they're part of the consumerist culture.

我真的很赞同这一点。

And it I really agree with that.

我认为英国存在着庞大的消费文化。

I think that there is a huge consumer culture in The UK.

而且，我们无时无刻不被各种广告狂轰滥炸。

And, you know, we're bombarded with advertising left, right, and center.

我们不断被灌输这样的信息：要想快乐、成功，就必须购买某些商品，必须拥有这样的电视、这样的衣服等等。

And we're constantly given messages that in order to be happy and to be a successful person, you need to buy certain goods and you need to get this kind of TV and these sorts of clothes and things like that.

有些生活在城市贫困区域的人根本买不起这些东西。

And there are people who live in sort of poor areas of the city who can't afford any of this stuff.

但他们同样也暴露在这些广告和信息之中。

And yet, they they're exposed to all of these adverts and things as well.

因此，自然地，他们也想要这些东西，但他们心里明白，自己实际上被亏待了。

And so, of course, naturally, they want to get those things, and yet they know they realize that somehow they're giving they're being given a bad deal.

这仍然是错误的。

It's still wrong.

他们闯入商店偷窃，这依然是错误的。

It's still wrong for them to break into shops and steal things.

这绝对是错的，但我认为他们其实是被逼到极限了。

That is definitely wrong, but I think that they were kind of pushed over the edge.

也许我有点过于宽容了，或者我们都有点太宽容了。

Maybe I'm being a bit maybe we're being a bit liberal.

有些人会说，犯罪行为没有任何借口，诸如此类的话。

Some people would say that there's no excuse for criminality and all that kind of thing.

你对此持什么观点？

Do where do you stand on that?

如果你的孩子参与了抢掠，你会怎么处理？

If if one of your kids had been involved in the looting, how would you have dealt with it?

不。

No.

这是个好问题。

That's that's a good question.

我不确定。

I'm not sure.

我明白你的观点，关于那种自由主义的态度。

And I I get your point about, you know, one's, liberal sentiments.

我对那些骚乱感到非常矛盾，其实我不太清楚自己的立场。

I have very mixed feelings about those riots, and I don't really know where I stand.

你知道，我对那种认为拥有东西就能改变生活的观念感到震惊。

You know, I'm I'm a bit shocked at the the belief that the acquisition of things can make a difference to your life.

你知道，情况有多糟？怎么会发展到人们只想要平板电视和运动鞋的地步？

You know, how bad is it how has it got that, you know, just people want flat screen TVs and trainers?

在这方面，我觉得我们的情况很糟糕。

And I think we're in a bad way in that respect.

另一方面，在事件发生的那天晚上，我只是在想，警察在哪？

On the other hand, I was on the night that it happened, I was just thinking, where are the police?

然后就把军队调进来。

And then bring in the army.

你知道吗？

You know?

我当时在保护我的孩子们。

And I was protecting my children.

而且，你知道，我发现自己产生了不太左翼自由派的念头。

And, you know, I found myself having sentiments of a rather less left wing liberal.

所以你当时就想，把他们抓起来。

So you were like, get them.

把这些该死的劫匪抓起来。

Get these bloody looters.

把他们打趴下。

Smash them up.

不好意思，我想问问，你说你武装了自己，你用的是什么？

What can I do you mind if I ask what you were you said you armed yourself?

嗯。

Mhmm.

你用什么武装了自己的？

What did you arm yourself with?

一把板球拍，或者你知道的，高尔夫球杆？

A a cricket bat, base you know, golf club?

你当时拿的是什么？

What what was it that you had?

是剪刀。

They they were shears.

园艺剪刀。

Gardening shears.

就是那种用来剪东西的工具，我简直不敢相信你居然用园艺剪刀来武装自己。

The kind of tool that you'd use to cut to I can't believe you were armed I can't believe you were armed with gardening shears.

这些听众，园艺剪就像一把大剪刀，用来修剪篱笆。

These listeners, gardening shears are like a sort of big pair of scissors that you would use to cut a hedge.

篱笆。

Hedge.

你知道，篱笆就像是你后院里的一种灌木丛。

You know, a hedge is like a, let's say, kind of bush that you'd have in your back garden.

我们用园艺剪来修剪篱笆。

We use gardening shears to cut the hedge.

这还是在我们拥有电动园艺设备之前的事。

This is before we had electric gardening equipment.

所以是园艺剪。

So gardening shears.

想象一把大剪刀。

Imagine a big pair of scissors.

我相信你一定明白我的意思。

I think I'm sure you know what I mean.

所以你手里拿着一把园艺剪。

So you were armed with a pair of gardening shears.

假设有个劫匪撞开前门，冲你喊‘你的东西在哪？’，你打算怎么办？

And what were you gonna do when, let's say, a looter smashed through the front door and said, where's all your stuff?

把所有名牌商品和钱都交出来。

Give me all your branded goods and and money.

那时候你会怎么用那把园艺剪？

What would you what would you have done with the gardening shears at that point?

呃，卢克，说来惭愧，我当时已经准备好剪断他们的翅膀了。

Well, Luke, I'm ashamed to say I was ready to clip their wings.

让那些劫匪脚踏实地一点。

Bring those bring those bring those looters back down to earth.

给他们来点伊蒙式的现实打击，这么说吧。

A bit of dose of Eamon reality, let's say.

好吧。

Okay.