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大家好，女士们、先生们。
Hello, ladies and gentlemen.
欢迎来到卢克英语播客的又一期节目。
Welcome to another episode of Luke's English podcast.
在本期节目中，我再次邀请了我的表弟奥利。
In this one, I'm joined once again by my cousin, Oli.
你好，奥利。
Hello, Oli.
你好。
Hello.
我们实际上正坐在Oli位于南伦敦家里的客厅里。
And we're actually sitting in Oli's, living room in his house in South London.
谢谢你为我做了意大利肉酱面当晚餐。
Thanks for, cooking me some spaghetti bolognese for dinner.
不客气。
You're welcome.
很好吃。
It was very nice.
是的。
It was.
非常好。
It was very good.
我得问问你这个食谱的具体做法，稍后再聊。
I I I must ask you what your recipe is about that later on.
我之前在播客里确实聊过煮意大利面的事，关于面条什么时候算煮好了，还引发了一些争论。
I have actually talked about, cooking spaghetti on the podcast before, and there is some debate over when pasta is ready.
你对此有什么看法？
What's your position on that?
我通常会尝一口，如果稍微有点嚼劲，就是那种微微有韧性的状态，那就很好了。
Well, tend to taste it, and if it's slightly al dente, so it's very slightly chewy, then that's good.
但如果是意大利细面，而不是像通心粉之类的，对吧？
But if it's actually spaghetti rather than, you know, penne Yeah.
那你就应该把它扔到天花板上，对吧？
Then you're supposed to throw it at the ceiling, aren't you?
如果它能粘住，那就说明煮好了。
And if it sticks, then it's ready.
这正是争论开始的地方。
Well, this is where the debate has started.
我从不同的人那里听到了各种说法，但它们彼此矛盾。
I've had various bits of information from different people which contradicts itself.
有些人说，如果把意大利面扔到墙上能粘住，那就煮过头了。
Some people say that if you throw the spaghetti at the wall and it sticks, that it's overcooked.
哦，但不是所有的面条都这样。
Oh, but not all of the spaghetti.
不是整根面条吗？
Not not the whole piece?
不是。
No.
当然不是，你不可能把整锅意大利面都扔到墙上。
Not obviously, not the entire pan full of you shouldn't throw all of your spaghetti at the wall.
对。
No.
那样会出问题的。
That would that would be a problem.
是的。
Yeah.
因为那样的话
Because then
这确实有卫生风险。
well It's a hygiene risk, really.
这是卫生问题。
It's hygiene.
那样的话，你会浪费掉所有的意大利面。
You would end up wasting all of your spaghetti that way.
你把意大利面扔到天花板上。
You throw the spaghetti at the ceiling.
是的。
Yeah.
但如果它粘在天花板上，由于重力作用，这会带来更大的挑战。
But if it sticks to the ceiling, because gravity on, you know, which gives it more of a kind of Challenge.
是的。
Yeah.
但如果它粘在天花板上，那不就说明它煮过头了吗？
But surely if it sticks to the ceiling, then it's it's it's too cooked, isn't it?
不。
No.
只是据说那样刚好合适。
It's just apparently that's just right.
但我的意思是，我从不那样做。
But I mean, I I don't do that.
不。
No.
我只是尝一口。
I just taste it.
你就用嘴尝一尝。
You just taste it with your mouth.
是的。
Yeah.
从我嘴里尝。
From my mouth.
是的。
Yeah.
没必要。
There's no need to
我不是用天花板来尝味道的。
I don't taste it with the ceiling.
不。
No.
不。
No.
我的意思是，把食物扔到某个物体或房子的某个部分来检查它是否煮好了，这个想法还挺有趣的。
I mean, it's quite interesting the idea of throwing your food at some object or some part of your house in order to check whether it's ready.
我的意思是，只有意大利面才会这么做。
I mean, only would do that with spaghetti.
是的。
Yeah.
吃吐司的时候，我不会那样做。
With toast, I don't do that with toast.
你不会对吐司那样做的。
You wouldn't do that with toast.
不会。
No.
你不会一边说，‘吐司好了吗？’
You wouldn't sort of like, is the toast ready?
我们看看。
Let's see.
我们干脆把它扔到房间角落，看看吐司有没有烤好。
Let's let's sort of throw it into the corner of the room to see if the toast is cooked.
没错。
Exactly.
我不会把汤扔到墙上，即使我已经吃够了。
Don't I don't throw soup at the wall when I've had it.
不会。
No.
不会。
No.
不会。
No.
就是这样。
That's it.
例如，你不会用这种方式来检查苹果是否熟了。
It's it's not, for example, your way of checking whether an apple is is ripe.
你不会把苹果扔出窗外，看它怎么弹跳吧。
You wouldn't kind of, I don't know, sort of throw it out the window and see how it bounces
在地上。
on the floor.
弹回到一楼。
Bounces back up to the 1st Floor.
那当然太荒谬了。
That that would be ridiculous, of course.
但不管怎样，你确实给我煮了一些意大利肉酱面，至于你是怎么检查面条是否煮好的，我其实并不在意。
But anyway, you did cook me some spaghetti bolognese, and I don't know, it doesn't really matter to me how you checked whether the spaghetti was ready.
最重要的是它非常美味，我希望它也是卫生的。
The main thing was that it very tasty, and I hope that it was hygienic.
是的，它很卫生。
2four It was hygienic.
我觉得它很干净。
I think it was clean.
它美味、干净、煮得恰到好处，准备得当，一切都很好。
It was tasty, it was clean, it was properly cooked, was properly prepared, and so it's all good.
一切都好，就像他们可能会说的那样，如果他们住在某个街区的话。
It's all good in the hood, as they might say, if they lived in a hood, a neighbourhood.
所以这一集的主旨是，虽然背景放着音乐，但我们不会谈论音乐本身；这一集的核心是‘对决’这个概念，对吧？
So the idea behind this episode, we've got some music playing in the background, but we're not going to talk about The main point of this episode is the idea of the versus battle or the Versus battle, right?
当然，这个概念并不新鲜。
Now, obviously this concept is not new.
任何形式的比赛或竞争都会涉及对决元素，比如一场足球赛，利物浦对阵埃弗顿；或者电影《异形大战铁血战士》；又或者拳击比赛，穆罕默德·阿里对阵乔·弗雷泽；还有网络上的各种争论，比如‘熊和鲨鱼打起来谁会赢？’——也就是熊对阵鲨鱼；或者‘忍者对海盗’的争论，这个话题在网络上已经流传很多次了。
Any kind of match or competition would involve the versus element, for example, a football match, Liverpool versus Everton or those movies like Alien versus Predator or a boxing match, Muhammad Ali versus Joe Frazer, for example, or also these kind of Internet debates, things like who would win in a fight between a bear and a shark, so like a bear versus a shark, or the the ninja versus pirates debate, which has gone around the Internet many times.
所以我们设计了一些不同的对决场景，把它们写在纸条上，然后放进了一顶帽子里。
So what we've done is we've created a number of different versus battles, and we have written them down on pieces of paper, and I've put them in a hat.
其实那是一顶费兹帽。
It's actually a fez.
你家里应该有一顶这种摩洛哥风格的费兹帽吧。
You've got one of these Moroccan style fez hats in your house.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道这东西的来历吗？
Do you know where that's from, actually?
摩洛哥？
Morocco?
是的。
Yeah.
它确实来自摩洛哥，但你和我在三十岁生日时办了一场享乐派对，那顶帽子就是当时戴的道具之一。
It is from Morocco, but you and I, on our thirtieth birthday, had a hedonism party, and that was one of the things worn at that party.
享乐派对其实是我们俩的联合三十岁生日派对，因为我们俩年龄只差三周左右，差不多同时满三十岁，于是我们办了这场叫‘享乐派对’的活动。
A hedon the hedonism party was a kind of it was our joint thirtieth birthday because we're about three weeks Oliver is three weeks older than me, so we were 30 around the same time, and we had this party called the Hedonism Party.
‘享乐主义’实际上指的是颓废。
Hedonism actually refers to the idea of Decadence.
颓废，比如沉溺于饮酒之类的行为，就是非常享乐主义的表现。
Decadence, like indulging in things like drinking, for example, would be a very hedonistic thing.
但这里有个玩笑，因为‘享乐主义’英文是hedonism，开头是‘head’，h-e-a-d，所以这场派对的主题是：你必须戴点东西在头上。
But there's a joke because head see, hedonism, like head, h e a d, so the theme of this hedonism party was that you had to wear something on your head.
这就像化装派对，只不过只针对头部。
It's like fancy dress, but just for the head.
是的。
Yeah.
所以大家需要戴帽子、眼镜，或者某种面具之类的。
So it involved wearing a hat on your head or maybe a pair of glasses or some kind of A mask or.
面具，或者类似的东西。
A mask or or something like that.
所以每个人都要戴一些装扮在头上或脸上。
So there everyone had to come with some item of fancy dress on their head or face.
而人们可以戴的物品之一就是这种摩洛哥风格的菲斯帽。
And and one of the items that people could wear was this fez, this Morocco style fez.
就是这顶菲斯帽，是的。
That fez, but Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
不过，不管怎样，那天晚上最后它被带回家了。
Well, anyway Obviously, it at home at the end of the night.
现在你把这顶费兹帽放在客厅里，我们用它来装这些写有不同对决主题的小纸条。
Now you've got this fez in your living room, and and we're using the fez to contain all of these little pieces of paper which contain different types of versus battle.
有些对决相当有深度，有些则非常平庸琐碎，那我们开始吧？
Some of them are quite intellectual, some of them are quite sort of banal and trivial, and so should we get started?
是的。
Yeah.
你有什么？
What have you got?
抽一个吧。
Pick one.
顺便说一下，我们并不一定非要分出这些对决的输赢。
By the way, there's there's no we don't we're not looking necessarily for a winner in these battles.
我们更多只是在探索这两者之间的整个竞争关系。
We're more just sort of exploring the the whole competition between the two things.
所以我这里第一个是《星球大战》对《指环王》。
So the first one I've got here is Star Wars versus Lord of the Rings.
哦，我明白了。
Oh, I see.
是的。
Yeah.
现在解释一下，当然，你应该都知道《星球大战》。
Now just to explain, of course, every you should know Star Wars.
卢克·天行者，达斯·维达。
Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader.
对。
Yeah.
我是说，来吧，加入黑暗面，诸如此类的东西。
I am you know, come to the dark side, all that kind of thing.
《指环王》，众所周知，有霍比特人、甘道夫。
Lord of the Rings, as we know, Hobbits, Gandalf.
对。
Yeah.
阿拉贡。
Aragorn.
阿拉贡。
Aragorn.
精灵、矮人，还有所有
Elves, dwarves, all of
那些。
that.
史麦戈。
Smeagol.
咕噜。
Gollum.
咕噜。
Gollum.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
这种事。
That kind of thing.
所以，你到底怎么看？
So, basically, what do think?
《星球大战》和《指环王》哪个更好？
Star Wars versus Lord of the Rings?
嗯，我觉得《指环王》嘛，很难说。
Well, I think Lord of the well, difficult.
《指环王》挺中世纪的。
Lord of the Rings is pretty medieval.
你知道，《星球大战》里有光剑，但《指环王》里没有。
You know, Star Wars would there's no lightsabers in Lord of the Rings.
要是精灵对上绝地武士，谁会赢？
How about would an elf take on a a Jedi?
一个精灵对战一个绝地武士，是的。
An elf versus a Jedi Yeah.
你觉得呢？
You think?
嗯，我觉得更像是甘道夫对战尤达。
Well, it's I think it's more like Gandalf versus maybe Yoda.
哦，对。
Oh, yeah.
甘道夫对战尤达。
Gandalf versus Yoda.
你认为这场战斗谁会赢？
Who would win in that battle, do you think?
我觉得，哦，这很难说。
I think oh, that's tricky.
我觉得可能是甘道夫。
I think probably Gandalf.
因为他比尤达高吗？
Because he's taller than Yoda?
他的身高是一个因素。
He's height height is a factor.
但他有魔法，而尤达拥有原力，他擅长近身战斗，尤达是这样，而甘道夫则能召唤自然之力对抗他。
But but but, you know, he has magic, whereas Yoda sort of has the force and he can do you know, he's sort of quite close combat, Yoda, whereas Gandalf could summon the powers of kind of nature against him.
对我来说，甘道夫的力量真正在于他说服他人的能力。
For me, Gandalf's strength really was was his ability to persuade people.
他更像一个外交家，而且显然在电影结尾，你也看到他其实是个战士。
He was more of a diplomat than an and and obviously, in the movies, at the end, you see that he's a warrior as well.
但在书中，尤其是，他本质上是个外交家，擅长说服他人。
But in the books, especially, he's really a a diplomat, and he manages to persuade people.
他的真正力量就在于他的说服力。
That's how that's his real power is in being persuasive.
他不就是一种知识的力量吗？
He's he's a power of knowledge, doesn't he?
在法律领域。
In law.
是的。
Yeah.
而尤达呢，情况类似，因为他也是一个有点和平主义者。
Whereas Yoda, well, it's similar because he also is a bit of a pacifist.
在第一部电影里，他根本没怎么打架。
In the first movies, he doesn't really fight.
在最近的几部里——我其实不太喜欢——他开始打架了，我觉得这太荒谬了。
In the more recent ones, which I didn't really like, he does fight, and I think that's ridiculous, really.
他看起来确实有点滑稽，是的。
He did look a bit absurd, yeah.
我觉得他们不会打架。
I don't think they would fight.
我觉得甘道夫和尤达会成为朋友。
I think that Gandalf and Yoda would be mates.
他们会成为朋友，对吧？
They'd be friends, wouldn't they?
我觉得他们很可能真的会。
I think they probably would.
他们会的。
They would
他们可能会一起抽烟斗之类的。
They'd smoke pipe together or something.
是的。
Yeah.
也许甘道夫会帮尤达改进他的句法结构。
And maybe Gandalf would help Yoda with his sentence structure.
可能会朝他开枪，是的。
Would would shoot at him Yeah.
从语法角度来说。
In sort of grammar.
但从角度来看，我认为我们很难达成一致，说其中哪一个更好，《星球大战》还是《指环王》
But in terms of the the I don't think that we can really agree on one of them being better, Star Wars versus Lord
比如讨论这些电影的话。
of talking about the movies, for example.
我得说《星球大战》。
I'd I'd have to say Star Wars.
你会这么说，但你是个《星球大战》狂热粉丝，而我也会说《星球大战》。
You would, but you're a Star Wars obsessive, whereas I would I would say Star Wars as well.
它算是一种新类型的类型片。
It's sort of defined as new genre.
是的。
Yeah.
而《指环王》则是一部经典的史诗电影。
Whereas Lord of the Rings was quite classic epic movie.
是的。
Yeah.
其实并没有打破太多界限。
Know, didn't really break boundaries too much.
我喜欢《指环王》，但也有一些地方让我觉得特别烦。
I liked Lord of the Rings, but there were also some things that I found deeply annoying about it.
是的。
Yeah.
比如他们改掉的一些情节。
Like certain things that they changed.
显然，《指环王》原本是一本书，我觉得电影不如原著好。
Obviously, Lord of the Rings was already a book, and I think that the movies weren't as good as the book.
顺带一提，你爸爸在大学时不是被托尔金辅导过吗？
As as a slight aside, was was your dad not tutored by Tolkien at university?
我爸爸是被克里斯托弗·托尔金辅导的，啊。
My dad was tutored by Christopher Tolkien Ah.
他是J.R.R.托尔金的儿子。
Who is who is JRR Tolkien's son.
我以为J.
I thought J.
R.
R.
托尔金骗了你爸爸。
Tolkien cheated your dad.
显然，克里斯托弗·托尔金有点无聊。
Apparently, Christopher Tolkien was a bit boring.
真的吗？
Oh, really?
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，显然没J.
Well, obviously less boring than J.
R.
R.
R.
R.
托尔金，你知道的，他讲过关于精灵和龙的精彩故事
Tolkien, because Tolkien, you know, told these awesome stories about elves and dragons
还有各种东西。
and stuff.
是的，是的，史诗般的故事。
Yeah, yeah, epic tales.
但克里斯托弗·托尔金则更
But Christopher Tolkien was a bit more
只是一个英语老师。
Just an English teacher.
确实少了一点，某种程度上没那么刺激。
Just a bit yeah, slightly less exciting somehow.
所以我个人更喜欢《星球大战》，因为它是一部我从小看到大的电影，一直让我兴奋和受启发。
So personally, I prefer Star Wars because it was a movie which I watched from childhood and something that's always excited me and inspired me.
我一直觉得它完美无缺。
I always thought it was perfect.
当然，现在作为成年人回头看，我能看出这部电影其实一点也不完美。
Obviously now, when I look back at it as an adult, I can see that as a film, it's not perfect at all.
有些表演和部分剧本
Some of the acting and some of the script
尤其是马克·哈米尔饰演的
Certainly Mark Hamill as an
演员表现相当不足。
actor was pretty deficient.
真的非常平庸。
Pretty pedestrian really.
但对我而言，在我心中，《星球大战》这部电影依然能让我重温童年。
But still, for me, in my mind, the movie Star Wars is something that I can watch and it takes me back to my childhood.
它就像一种纯真而纯粹的东西。
It's like an innocent kind of pure thing.
而《指环王》现在，我看了之后觉得，它没有原著那么好。
Whereas Lord of the Rings now, I look at it and I think, well, it's not as good as the book.
我不喜欢他们对其中一些内容所做的改动。
I don't like the way they changed some of the things in it.
而且我觉得科幻比奇幻更有吸引力。
And also, I think sci fi has a bit more appeal than fantasy.
你这么认为吗？
You think so?
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得是这样。
Think so.
因为你能更容易地与它产生共鸣。
It's more you can relate to it more.
它更像是一个可行的未来，而不是一个完全虚构的世界。
It's like it's this it's a feasible ish future rather than a completely fantasy world.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
我们可以一直聊这个，我觉得我们对大多数这些话题都能聊个没完。
We could talk about that forever, and I think we'll find that we can talk about most of these forever.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以我们有
So we have
继续下一个话题。
to move on.
我们不应该在每个话题上花超过几分钟。
We shouldn't spend more than a few minutes discussing each topic.
所以让我们尽量在每个话题里塞进最多的无稽之谈。
So let's try and squeeze as much nonsense into each topic as we can.
我想把帽子里的所有东西都说完。
And I want to finish everything in this hat.
如果你们能听到的话，播客主们。
And if you can hear, podcasters
里面有很多东西。
a lot there.
听得到里面那些纸张的声音吗？
Hear all that paper in there?
里面有很多无稽之谈需要讨论。
There's a lot of nonsense that that has to be talked about.
所以，Skip
So Skip
翻过一些内容吧。
through some of these.
好的。
Okay.
那么，Oli，下一个是什么？
So Let me Oli, what's the next thing?
好的。
Okay.
下一个话题是早起鸟和夜猫子。
The next one is early birds versus night owls.
早起鸟和夜猫子。
Early birds versus night owls.
那是什么意思？
And what does that mean?
所以早起鸟和夜猫子。
So early birds versus night owls.
早起鸟指的是那些基本上喜欢早晨的人。
That means early birds are people who are basically kind of morning people.
所以他们在早上刚醒来时状态最佳。
So they're on their best form first thing in the morning when they wake up.
那些面带微笑跳过早餐的人。
So And then the people who kind of skip to breakfast with a smile on their faces.
他们会觉得，哦，我实在
They're like, oh, I can't
迫不及待想起床。
wait to get out of bed.
现在是早上七点。
It's it's 07:00.
他们是那种会说，如果你赖床，就是在浪费一天中最美好的时光的人。
They're they're sort of people who say, if you're if you have a line that you're wasting the best part of the day.
对。
Right.
所以这些人都喜欢早起。
So these are people who love getting up early in the morning.
他们觉得早晨是一天中最美好的时光。
They love they think the morning is the best part of the day.
没错。
Exactly.
没错。
Exactly.
他们从不赖床。
They they don't have lie ins.
他们就是喜欢起床后马上做事。
They just love to get out of bed and do things.
我觉得这些人非常烦人。
These are I personally think these are very annoying people.
我受不了这样的人。
I can't stand these people.
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Alright.
然后是夜猫子。
And and then night owls.
夜猫子是那些以温斯顿·丘吉尔为代表的人。
Night owls are people famously, Winston Churchill was a night owl.
那些在清晨时分状态最佳的人。
People who are are at their best in the early hours of the morning.
所以他们熬夜。
So they stay up late.
他们通常在深夜才进入最佳状态，大部分出色的工作都是在深夜完成的。
They kind of hit their form, but they do the most of their best work late at night.
他们不喜欢上床睡觉，但最终也会睡到很晚。
And they don't like going to bed, but they are they inevitably stay in bed quite late as well.
所以他们差不多中午才起床，半夜才睡觉。
So they kind of get up at lunchtime and go to bed in the middle of the night.
猫头鹰是夜行性动物，这就是为什么他们叫夜猫子。
So owl is a nocturnal animal, so that's why they're night owls.
猫头鹰当然是那种晚上才出来、会发出那种声音的鸟。
The owl, of course, is that bird that kind of comes out at night, the one that makes that kind of noise.
它能转动头部。
It can rotate its head.
整整一圈。
All the way around.
整整一圈。
All the way around.
我也能把头转整整三百六十度。
I can rotate my head all the Three sixty degrees, though.
是的。
Yeah.
我也可以做到。
I I could do that too.
你能吗？
Can you?
不过，我也得把身体转上三百六十度。
Things, though, I also have to rotate my body three
我也得转三百六十度。
sixty degrees too.
你觉得呢？
So what do think?
我觉得我们已经讨论过这个了。
I think we've already dealt with that.
我想我们更喜欢夜猫子。
We prefer night owls, I imagine.
夜猫子通常更聪明。
Night owls are are generally wiser.
他们可能更有趣，带点叛逆感。
They're probably more fun, slightly edgy.
他们是那种会出去喝酒、放纵享乐、有点疯狂的人。
They're the ones who are gonna be get out getting drunk and being hedonistic and slightly crazy.
是的。
Yes.
而早起的人则更传统，有点烦人。
And early birds are a bit more conventional and sort of annoying.
没人会在早餐时心情好。
No one's someone in a good mood at breakfast.
你能想象和一个早起的人一起去度假吗？
Can you imagine sort of imagine that going on holiday with an early bird?
对。
Yeah.
而且他们会
And they would
说：好吧。
be like, right.
别闹了。
Come on.
现在早上六点了。
It's 06:00 in the morning.
我们去散个步吧。
Let's go for a walk.
没错。
Exactly.
他会说：别理我。
And he'd be like, just leave me alone.
是的。
Yeah.
我昨晚三点才回家。
I was out till three.
对。
Yeah.
我们一直喝酒到凌晨四点。
We were up drinking wine until 4AM.
我不想出去散步。
I don't wanna go for
散步。
a walk.
我只睡了两个小时。
I've only had two hours sleep.
是的。
Yeah.
散步能有多开心，比起喝酒呢？
What how much fun is a walk versus drinking wine?
我有必要去散步吗？
Would I need to go for a walk?
我们到底在干什么？
What what what are we doing?
我们要不要再买点酒？
Are we going to buy more wine?
你知道的。
You know?
不。
No.
谢谢。
Thanks.
我就待在床上了。
I'll stay in bed.
所以我觉得夜猫子那个是。
So I think the night owl one is.
夜猫子赢了。
Night owl wins that.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以下一个抽到的是这个，有点深奥，
So the next thing from the hat is the this is a bit deep,
这个。
this one.
隐喻与明喻。
Metaphor versus simile.
隐喻与明喻。
Metaphor versus simile.
那么，什么是隐喻，什么是明喻？
Now, what's your what is a metaphor and what is a simile?
首先，这是你的专业领域。
Firstly, this is your expert area.
明喻就是一件事像另一件事。
Simile is when one thing is like another thing.
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所以我认为我们应该指出，这些是作家使用的修辞手法，或者说是
So I I think we should point out these are both, let's say, devices for writers or or devices in
那是什么？
What is it?
在英语中。
English.
是的。
Yeah.
它们是一种解释事物的方式。
They're sort of ways of explaining things.
表达想法或描述事物的方式。
Ways of expressing ideas or describing things.
所以隐喻是某物与另一物相同，是一种当一物像另一物时的用法。
So metaphor is something that is the same as something else, and it's something that is when one thing is like another thing.
我认为隐喻并不是指某物与另一物相同。
I think metaphor isn't when it's the same as something else.
当你用另一种意象来描述某事物时，就是如此。
It's when you describe one thing by using another kind of imagery.
比如在诗歌中，你说太阳像一个橙子，是的。
So for example, if you say this in poetry, if you say the sun was an orange Yeah.
这是一个隐喻，因为显然太阳并不是一个橙子，但你说太阳是橙子，意思是它很大、很圆，而且是橙色的。
That's a metaphor because obviously the sun isn't an orange, but you're saying that the sun was an orange, meaning that it was large, it was round, and it was it was orange
在颜色上。
in color.
那些是……是的。
Things that that are but yeah.
就是这种……
It's that sort of
所以你的意思是，你通过说某事物是另一事物来描述它。
So you're saying that you're you're describing one thing by saying that it's another thing.
对。
Yeah.
那就是隐喻。
That's a metaphor.
而明喻基本上就是当你使用‘像’这个词的时候。
Whereas a simile is basically just when you use the word like.
是的。
Yeah.
这展示了两个事物之间的相似性。
That that that is showing kind of parallels between two things.
是的。
Yeah.
你可以不直接
You can Rather than
说它们是相同的东西。
saying that they're the same thing.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
所以比喻就会是：太阳就像天空中一个巨大的橙子。
So that would be like a simile would be the sun was like a big orange in the sky.
是的。
Yeah.
我们还能想到其他一些关于太阳的隐喻例子吗？
Can we think of some other examples of metaphor?
用太阳来打比方。
Using the sun.
比如说，不拿太阳举例，假设你在酒吧里和一个人打架，你可以用隐喻来形容这个人。
So let's say, not with the sun, let's say for example if a you fight with a man in the pub, you can describe this man using metaphors.
你会说，你知道的，这个大猩猩走进房间，一拳打在我脸上。
You'd say, and so, you know, and and this gorilla walks across the room to punch me in the face.
是的。
Yeah.
这个巨大的食人魔。
This this great ogre.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
但显然，那并不是一只大猩猩。
But, obviously, it wasn't a gorilla.
那只是一个身材高大、可能有点愚蠢，想一拳打你脸的人。
It was just a man who was large and sort of probably a bit stupid who wanted to smash you in the face.
是的。
Yeah.
但如果是明喻，就会说，然后那个可怕的男人，长得像只大猩猩，是的。
But with a simile, it would be like and then this this horrible man who look who looked like a gorilla Yeah.
他走过了酒吧。
Walked across the bar.
或者他……他打了我一拳，就像大炮一样。
Or or he he kind of he hit he he punched me like a cannon.
他的拳头像炮弹一样。
His punch was like a cannonball.
嗯。
Mhmm.
他的拳头像炮弹一样。
His punch was like a cannonball.
或者当他打人的时候，嗯。
Or it would be like when he punched Yeah.
‘他的拳头像炮弹一样’是一个明喻，意思是炮弹突然打中了你的脸，实际上他就是打了你一拳，但你用这种方式让描述更生动。
His punch was like a cannonball is a simile, and suddenly a cannonball hit me in the face, it means that he actually punched you in the face, but you're sort of trying to make it more expressive by saying that a cannonball hit you.
哪个更好？
Which one is better?
隐喻更好。
A metaphor is better.
隐喻比比喻更胜一筹。
Metaphors are better than similar.
它们更具延展性，也更偏向横向联想。
They have more scope and they're more kind of lateral.
是的。
Yeah.
有时更富寓言性。
A bit more allegorical sometimes.
是的。
Yeah.
因为你可以用，比如说，你讲一个故事，它就能意味着……
Because you can use, for example, I don't know, you could just you could tell one story and it could mean could That
这实际上是一个寓言，而不是隐喻。
is actually an allegory rather than a metaphor.
寓言其实就是一种扩展的隐喻，我想。
That's like an allegory is kind of an extended metaphor, I guess.
比如，《动物农场》是关于共产主义或俄罗斯历史、俄罗斯革命的寓言。
So, you know, animal farm is an allegory for communism or the kind of Russian history, Russian revolution.
是的。
Yeah.
好吧。
Alright.
隐喻与明喻的区别。
Metaphors versus similes.
就是这样。
There you go.
如果我们觉得隐喻更有力量，我们似乎更倾向于使用隐喻。
We seem to prefer metaphors if we think they're more powerful.
对。
Right.
就是这样。
There you go.
接下来呢？
What's next?
我们从中选一个吧。
Let's pick one of these out.
所以是康纳利对摩尔。
So Connery versus Moore.
康纳利对摩尔。
Connery versus Moore.
这些是詹姆斯·邦德的扮演者。
These are these are James Bond actors.
我认为，到目前为止，这可能是我们能讨论或已经讨论过的最重要的主题之一。
I think this is so far maybe one of the most important subjects that we could discuss or that we have discussed so far.
哪个更好？
Which one's better?
肖恩·康纳利还是罗杰·摩尔？
Sean Connery or or Roger Moore?
谁是最好的詹姆斯·邦德？
Which is the best James Bond?
是的。
Yeah.
对我来说，这很简单，我不会去细究他们表演风格的微妙差异，或者詹姆斯·邦德这个角色在他们各自出演时期的变化。
This is for me, is easy, but it's I'm not going for the subtle kind of comparisons of their acting styles or or, you know, how the the the the treatment of James Bond changed when they were acting, each one.
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，这纯粹取决于运动能力。
I mean, it's quite simply down to athletic ability.
对吧？
Right?
肖恩·康纳利曾经是一名职业足球运动员，他是职业的。
So so Sean Connery was a was a professional footballer He was a pro.
是的。
Yeah.
他还是个健美运动员，
He was he was a a bodybuilder as well,
我相信。
I believe.
他确实是一名半职业足球运动员。
He was a he was certainly a semi pro footballer.
是吗？
Was he
宇宙先生？
mister universe?
不是。
No.
你在想施瓦辛格吧。
You're thinking of an old Schwarzenegger.
哦，是的。
Oh, yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
That's right.
但康纳利确实是个真正的运动员。
But Connery was, like, a genuinely good athlete.
而罗杰·摩尔，我记得特别清楚，看过他跑过海滩，我想是在《雷霆杀机》里吗？
Whereas Roger Moore, I remember specifically watching him running down a beach, I think, in in is it Livernet Dino?
是哪一部呢？还是
Which one would it Or
或者可能是《海底城》。
or maybe Octopussy.
是的。
Yeah.
可能是《海底城》。
Probably Octopussy.
而且他走路非常笨拙。
And he's just he's very flat footed.
他根本不能，他肯定不会打架。
He couldn't he couldn't he certainly couldn't fight.
他不会跑。
He couldn't run.
他不能，他根本做不了任何他被安排的特技，你知道的。
He couldn't he couldn't do any of the stunts that he's proposed, you know.
他真是他那套体系中的一个弱点。
He was a real chink in chink in his arbor.
他能做的只是
What he could
但穿西装确实帅极了。
do though is look damn good in a suit.
是的。
Yes.
而且，你知道，我其实并不关心他的运动能力，只要他穿条纹西装看起来很帅，能挑挑眉毛，点一杯摇匀但不搅拌的马提尼就够了。
And and I'd I, you know, I I don't really care about his athletic ability as long as he looks good in a pinstripe suit, and he can raise his eyebrow and order a martini, shaken, not stirred.
对。
Yeah.
你
You
知道？
know?
那对于
That for
我来说就足够了。
me is fine.
我这么说其实并不含蓄，但简单来说，在这两位演员之间，确实如此。
I'm being I'm not being very subtle about it, but it's quite simply between those two actors Yeah.
不只是关于邦德，你知道，我无法忍受那些不会好好跑步的人。
Not just about Bond, but, you know, I can't stand people who can't run properly.
他真的？
He's Really?
不。
No.
我做不到。
I can't.
你无法忍受那些不会好好跑步的人？
You can't stand people who can't run properly?
不。
No.
这真的让我很烦，尤其是在那些本该是优秀战士的电影里。
It really annoys me, especially in movies where they're supposed to be kind of, you know, good fighters or something.
就是
It just
哦，好吧。
Oh, okay.
对。
Right.
这是一个真正让整个情节失去可信度的时刻。
It's a real moment where it it any credibility just fell away.
对。
Right.
当整部电影都建立在这样一个基础上——这个家伙是个战士，是个危险的人物——的时候。
When you when when basically the whole movie is built upon the idea that this this guy is a fighter and he's a dangerous man.
是的。
Yeah.
但当你真正看到他跑步时，你会意识到，天哪，他真是笨拙得不行。
But when you actually see him running, you realize, oh my god, he's he's He's retarded.
他太差了。
He's terrible.
是的。
Yeah.
他连跑都跑不好。
He can't even run properly.
我不再相信这一切了。
I don't believe any of this anymore.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
嗯，也许这需要某种特质，我认为大多数人会说肖恩·康纳利
Well, maybe that takes something well, I think most people would say that Sean Connery
是最棒的，他更酷，不是吗？
is the best He's cooler, isn't he?
是的。
Yeah.
我的意思是，他看起来似乎更粗暴一些。
I mean, he was like he seemed to be a bit more brutal.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，
You know,
他有那种詹姆斯那种粗暴的特质，但他显得更残忍、更暴力。
he had that brutal thing that that James but he seemed a bit more cruel and brutal.
更像个小混混。
A bit more thuggish.
更像个流氓。
A bit more of a thug.
同时，他或许也更危险，对女性更具危险的吸引力。
And at the same time, he was perhaps more dangerous and dangerously attractive to women.
是的。
Yeah.
更严肃、更英俊，诸如此类。
A bit more serious, handsome, and all that sort of thing.
我发现罗杰·摩尔更带点喜剧色彩。
Roger Moore was I found a bit more of a comical kind
没错。
of Exactly.
他就是那种风格，他更加玩世不恭。
He was he was the whole that was part of the he was he was much more tongue in cheek.
是的。
Yes.
你知道的，更具有讽刺意味，没错。
You know, more satirical kind of Yeah.
我现在真的很喜欢看罗杰·摩尔演的詹姆斯·邦德，但我觉得它们更具讽刺性和玩世不恭。
I really enjoy watching Roger Moore, James Bond's now, but I feel that they're more ironic and tongue in cheek
是的。
Yeah.
比肖恩·康纳利版的更具有戏剧性。
Than the Sean Connery ones, which are genuinely more dramatic movies.
是的。
Yeah.
它们更惊险刺激。
They're more thrilling.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
但我很喜欢，你知道怎么模仿肖恩·康纳利的口音吗？
But I love do you know do you wanna know how to do a Sean Connery accent?
是的。
Yes.
你知道怎么模仿吗？
Do you know do you know how to do it?
我还能模仿一点点，但不太行
I can I can do it a little bit, but not very
好吗？
well?
在我看来，基本要素只有两个，是的。
The basic element there are as far as I'm concerned, there are just two basic elements Yeah.
要这么做。
To it.
第一个，当然是那个s音，是的。
The first one, of course, being the s the s sound Yeah.
应该发成sh的音。
Which should be pronounced sh.
是的。
Yeah.
所以是yesh。
So yesh.
没错。
Exactly.
第二个就是你要稍微压低你的声音。
The second one is just that you kind of lower your lower your voice.
是的。
Yeah.
所以名字是邦德，詹姆斯·邦德，〇〇七。
So the name's Bond, James Bond, o o seven.
是的。
Yeah.
然后他说一些很酷的话，比如：‘我以前闻过两次这种味道。’
And he and then say kind of cool things like, I've smelt that colon twice before.
两次都该不会是有什么猫腻吧？
Both times, should I smelt a rat?
那罗杰·摩尔呢？
But what about Roger Moore?
罗杰·摩尔。
Roger Moore.
罗杰·摩尔。
Roger Moore.
嗯，起伏更大一些。
Well, it's more up and down.
有点浮夸，稍微有点做作。
It's kind of camp, a little bit camp.
是的。
Yeah.
所以是罗杰·摩尔。
So Roger Moore.
所以，你会觉得，比如，你更喜欢速度还是耐力，邦德先生？
So, you know, it'd be like, do you prefer speed or stamina, mister Bond?
嗯，我觉得两者都要一点。
Well, a little bit of both, I would have thought.
你知道的吧？
You know?
基本上，他说的每句话都带点性暗示。
Like, basically, everything he says has got some sexual innuendo to it.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
他确实是个充满双关语的邦德。
He's he's he's very much an an innuendo Bond.
没错。
That's right.
是的。
Yeah.
这次我们给你派了个美国特工，邦德。
It's like we've we we're assigning you with an American special agent this time, Bond.
她来了。
Here she is.
她叫波西·加洛尔。
She's called pussy galore.
然后邦德会说，一个女人。
And then Bond would go, a woman.
你知道吗？
You know?
是的。
Yeah.
那个波西·加洛尔。
That Pussy Galore.
波西·加洛尔。
Pussy Galore.
我一定是在做梦。
I must be dreaming.
那实际上是康纳利的台词。
That's actually that's actually a Connery line.
我一定是在做梦。
I must be dreaming.
对，没错。
That's Yeah.
约翰·康纳利。
John Connery.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以是罗杰。
So Roger.
是的。
Yeah.
康纳利一直都是，对吧？
Connery all the way, isn't it?
他绝对是最好的。
He's he's definitely the best.
而且康纳利在邦德之后的演艺生涯显然比莫德成功得多。
Plus plus Connery obviously had a much more successful acting career after Bond than Maude did.
是的。
Yeah.
他是个更有演技的演员。
Much more versatile actor.
是的。
Yeah.
尽管他始终只使用完全相同的口音。
Despite only ever having exactly the same accent.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
肖恩·康纳利，无论他扮演什么角色，他都应该演绎好每一个角色。
Sean Connery, whatever whatever role he played, he should have every single role he played.
他是这样演的。
He played it like this.
即使当他讲日语的时候。
Even when even when he was speaking Japanese.
是的。
Yeah.
他特意选择了需要不同口音的角色，但却拒绝改变自己的口音。
He he quite specifically chose roles that required a different accent and then refused to do it.
是的。
Yeah.
我觉得有一部电影叫《旭日东升》
I think it there's a film called Rising Sun
是的。
Yeah.
由肖恩·康纳利和丹泽尔·华盛顿主演。
With Sean Connery and Denzel Washington.
不是。
No.
抱歉。
Sorry.
那还有谁？
Who else is it?
谁是布莱德？
Who's Blade?
韦斯利·斯奈普斯。
Wesley Snipes.
韦斯利·斯奈普斯。
Wesley Snipes.
是的。
Yeah.
是肖恩·康纳利和韦斯利·斯奈普斯，他们在日本。
It's it's Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes, and they're in Japan.
肖恩·康纳利会说日语。
And Sean Connery speaks Japanese.
是的。
Yeah.
听肖恩·康纳利说日语特别搞笑，他会说：‘你知道吗？’
And so listening to Sean Connery speaking Japanese is hilarious because he goes, You know?
太棒了。
Brilliant.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
所以轮到你了，我想，来
So it's your turn, I think, to
我来，我答对了。
be I got that one.
你刚答过最后一个了，
You you you got the last one,
是吗？
did you?
下一个。
Next.
给你。
There you go.
那顶帽子在这儿。
There's the hat.
这儿有
There's
这里面东西可真多，你知道的。
a lot in here, you know.
我知道。
I know.
这里面东西可多了。
There's there's loads of things in here.
哦，苹果对微软。
Oh, Apple versus Microsoft.
苹果对微软。
Apple versus Microsoft.
好的。
Okay.
嗯，你是个苹果用户。
Well, you you you're you're an Apple user.
你有苹果手机，还有Yeah。
You've got, like, Apple iPhone and a Yeah.
我有。
I have.
一台MacBook。
A MacBook.
我有一台MacBook。
I've got a MacBook.
我去过库比蒂诺的苹果公司。
I've been to visit Apple in in Cupertino.
你真的去过美国的苹果总部？
You've been to the Apple offices in America, really?
我受邀去的。
I invited over.
是的。
Yeah.
真的吗？
Really?
好的。
Okay.
你看，这很有趣，因为就在上周，苹果成为了最有价值的公司。
So see, this is interesting because just last week, Apple became the most valuable company.
我认为这可能是有史以来最有价值的科技公司。
I think maybe just technology company of all time.
有史以来最有价值的科技公司。
The most valuable technology company of all
有史以来最有价值的公司，因为微软曾经是最有价值的公司，嗯。
valuable company of all time because Microsoft was the most valuable company Mhmm.
估值为5840亿。
Valued at 584,000,000 billion.
苹果最近的估值达到了6000亿美元。
And Apple was just recently valued at 600,000,000,000.
是的。
Yeah.
但如果你考虑通货膨胀等因素，微软的估值其实仍然更高一些。
But if you take into account, you know, inflation and such like, then Microsoft was still kind of more valuable.
但苹果似乎已经打破了平衡，变得如此主导地位了，是的。
But but Apple has sort of just it feels like it's tipped the balance and become so dominant Yeah.
它不再被视为酷炫的挑战者。
That it's now no longer of cool and the underdog.
它已经逐渐成为主流。
It's sort of become the establishment.
我认为我们已经达到了一个转折点，
I think that we've reached the tipping point with
苹果。
Apple.
饱和了。
Saturation.
现在我认为，拥有苹果产品已经不再酷了。
And now it's no longer cool to have Apple stuff, I think.
不过，显然这些产品依然非常出色。
Although, obviously, products are all still brilliant.
但如果你看看，比如iPhone和三星Galaxy S，那是几代来着？
But if you look at, for example, the iPhone versus, let's say, the Samsung Galaxy S what is it?
三星Galaxy G2或者S2之类的。
The Samsung Galaxy G two or S two or something.
就两者性能而言，很多人说现在的三星Galaxy比iPhone更好。
And in terms of how good they both are, a lot of people are saying that the Samsung Galaxy is better than the iPhone now.
几年前，iPhone绝对是首选。
And so it's like before, a couple of years ago, it was definitely the iPhone.
那时iPhone明显优于其他手机。
The iPhone was just clearly better than other handsets.
但现在看起来，所有人都开始赶上了。
But now it looks like everyone is starting to catch up.
但这是苹果对微软？
But but this is Apple versus Microsoft?
这是苹果对微软。
This is Apple versus Microsoft.
苹果仍然比微软曾经的任何时期都更酷。
So Apple is still cooler than Microsoft ever was.
而且仍然更好。
And still better.
而且仍然更好。
And still better.
尽管Windows 7比我们之前所有的Windows版本都要好。
Although Windows seven is better than than all the other Windows we've had so far.
据说Windows 8非常棒。
Apparently, eight is amazing.
真的吗？
Really?
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
我刚读了一份科技报告，说Windows 8和苹果的操作系统一样酷。
I just read, like, a technology report where it said Windows eight is kind of as cool as the the, you know, the Apple OS.
是的。
Yeah.
全是胡说八道。
Whatever is lying.
我认为，随着Windows 7的推出，微软突然意识到：天哪。
I think that what's happened is that with Windows seven, Microsoft kind of went, oh my god.
看看苹果的macOS 10。
Look at Apple OS 10.
是的。
Yeah.
这太棒了。
This is amazing.
我们真的得改进Windows了。
We've really gotta fix Windows.
偷走了所有东西。
Stole everything.
他们只是剽窃了所有创意
They just stole all the ideas
从苹果那里拿来用在微软上。
from Apple and applied it to Microsoft.
但我并不在意。
But I don't care.
我不在乎微软是否从苹果那里剽窃创意。
I don't care if Microsoft steal ideas from Apple.
只要他们提供的质量相同，但价格更便宜
As long as they're if they're offering me the same quality but for a cheaper price
我会
I'll
接受这个。
take that.
那就太好了。
Then great.
是的。
Yeah.
但苹果公司制造硬件，你知道的。
But Apple made hardware, you know.
微软从未真正制造过硬件本身，而软件和硬件之间存在着一种共生关系，这使得苹果产品使用起来非常顺畅。
Microsoft never made the actual hardware itself, and there's like a a kind of symbiotic relationship between the software and the hardware, which makes the Apple products just work.
是的。
Yeah.
你知道，微软从来没有过这种优势。
You know, Microsoft never had that.
比如一台装着Windows的戴尔电脑。
Like a Dell computer with Windows running on it.
这完全不一样。
It's not the same.
是的。
Yeah.
没错。
Exactly.
是的。
Yeah.
所以微软输了。
So Microsoft lose.
是的。
Yeah.
苹果仍然是赢家。
Still Apple as the winners.
好的。
Okay.
接下来，我要比较阿尔·帕西诺和罗伯特·德尼罗。
Next, I've got Al Pacino versus Robert De Niro.
哦，这很难选。
Oh, that's tricky.
现在我们该解释一下为什么这两个人总被放在一起，因为他们显然都是意大利裔美国人。
And now we should establish why these two are together because obviously they they're both like the Italian Americans.
他们俩在七十年代、八十年代和九十年代都出演过一些杰出的电影。
They've both been in some fantastic films during the seventies and eighties and nineties.
他们都被认为是方法派演员，也就是说，他们会真正融入角色的生活。
They both are considered to be method actors, which means that they live the role that they have true.
想
Want to
也一样。
do as well.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
是的。
Yeah.
对于一个试图融入角色的人来说，他在每个角色中都异常相似。
He's incredibly sort of similar in every role for somebody who tries to live in.
嗯，我知道。
Well, I know.
这很讽刺，他们被认为是方法派演员，意味着他们会变成自己所扮演的角色。
This is the ironic thing that they're they're considered to be method actors, which means they become the role that they play.
但他们总是做着完全相同的
But they were always doing the same exact
事情。
thing.
但德尼罗稍微多变一些。
But she De Niro's a bit more versatile.
有一点，但本质上就是他一会儿看这边，一会儿眼神交流，一会儿不眼神交流，一会儿指指点点，一会儿用鼻子呼吸，你，你，我，你，你，我，我，你，你，你，我。
A little bit, but essentially it's just him sort of looking one way, making eye contact, not making eye contact, being kind of going pointing, kind of going you breathing through his nose, you, you, me, you, you, me, me, you, you, you, me.
那帕西诺呢？
What about Pacino?
帕西诺就是那样，哦，哦，呼，你知道的，不管演什么角色，他都是这样。
Pacino just does that, oh, oh, hoo you know, And that is pretty much whatever role he plays.
如果他是个语言学校的老师的话。
He's if he's like Pacino is a a teacher in a language school.
哦，明白了。
Oh, okay.
现在完成时。
Present perfect.
你知道的。
You know?
而德尼罗如果扮演语言学校的老师，就会是‘你你我’那种风格。
Whereas De Niro as a a teacher in a language school would be like, you you me?
我们要学现在完成时，你闭嘴。
We're gonna learn present you you shut up.
你闭嘴。
You shut up.
你知道的。
You know?
所以，无论如何，你认为哪一个更好？
So anyway, which one's the best in your opinion?
嗯，如果你看看他们演过的电影数量、那些电影的质量以及多样性，我得选德尼罗。
Well, if you look at the the numb the films have been and how good those movies are are and how varied and I'd have to go with De Niro.
是吗？
Yeah?
对。
Yeah.
我会选他。
I would.
我的意思是，比如《教父》之前那部电影叫什么？
I mean, from things like oh, what's the film before good Godfather?
《教父》之前的那部电影？
The film before Godfather?
哈维·凯特尔。
Harvey Keitel.
他演的是像一个……
He plays like a On
主街。
Main Street.
一样。
Same.
主街。
Main Street.
没错。
Exactly.
为什么？
Why?
为什么？
Why?
别这样。
Come on.
别这样。
Come on.
你怎么了？
What's the matter with you?
得了吧。
Come on.
所以他在这一点上和《教父》里的角色很不一样。
So he's so different in that to Godfather.
是的。
Yeah.
他就像个爱耍嘴皮子的傻瓜。
He's like a wise guy, of wisecracking bit of an idiot.
是的。
Yeah.
他在那么多经典电影里都演过这样的角色，像《盗火线》这样的电影里，他们俩都在，《盗火线》里他赢了。
He did that in so many classic movies, and then things like Heat where they're both in in Heat, he wins just in that movie.
他在《盗火线》里比帕西诺演得更好。
He's better than Pacino in Heat.
在《盗火线》里。
In Heat.
而不是他们共同出演的那部电影。
Instead of the movie they're in together.
对吧？
Right?
不对。
No.
他们还一起演过另一部电影，
They're in another film together,
那是更近一点的。
which More recently.
我记不起他们最近一起演的那部电影叫什么了，但你记得吗？
It's I can't remember the name of the the recent film that they're in together, but it's It's you?
你，我？
You, me?
你？
You?
你？
You?
哦。
Oh.
哦，你，我。
Oh, you, me.
非常好。
Very good.
非常好。
Very good.
呼。
Hoo.
那部最近的电影很糟糕，但《盗火线》太棒了。
It was a terrible film, the the more recent one, but Heat is brilliant.
我同意。
I agree.
我觉得德尼罗更好。
I think De Niro is better.
我喜欢你。
I like the you.
你。
You.
你。
You.
是的。
Yeah.
他很刻薄。
He's mean.
你。
You.
你知道吗，我更喜欢那个，而不是哦，哦，你知道的？
You know, I prefer that than oh, oh, you know?
我觉得是的。
I think yeah.
他根本没去见那些混蛋和所有那些烂事，但确实是。
He didn't meet the fuckers and all that crap, but yeah.
我还是觉得他更好。
Still think he's better.
是的。
Yeah.
好的。
Okay.
我最喜爱的电影之一是《出租车司机》。
I my one of my favorite films ever is Taxi Driver.
是的。
Yeah.
就是这样。
There you go.
我觉得这太棒了。
And I think that's brilliant.
但话说回来，帕西诺演了《疤面煞星》，那是一部非常出色的电影。
But then again, Pacino did Scarface, and that is that is a fantastic film.
那是一部伟大的电影。
That is a great film.
他还演了
And he also did
跟我的小家伙打个招呼吧。
Say hello to my little friend.
你知道的。
You know?
《疤面煞星》之后他演的另一部经典是哪部？
What's the other classic he did that was just after Scarface?
我想起来了。
I've got it.
他在《午夜追杀》之后还演了另一部电影，叫《毒枭》。
He did another film after Dog Day Afternoon, Serpico.
《毒枭》。
Serpico.
《毒枭》。
Serpico.
是的。
Yeah.
对。
Yeah.
当然，也许他最著名的作品是《教父》三部曲。
And of course, well, maybe his most famous one is the Godfather trilogy.
他也在里面出演了。
Was in that too.
德尼罗出演了第二部，但帕西诺确实出演了全部三部电影，而且他在其中的表现简直太棒了。
De De Niro was in the second one, but Pacino really was in all three films, and he was absolutely amazing in those
他们两个都是。
Both of them.
历史。
History.
好的。
Okay.
我下一个想到的是约翰·列侬和保罗·麦卡特尼的对比。
Next one I've got in the hat is John Lennon versus Paul McCartney.
哦，这非常非常难。
Oh, that's very, very difficult.
问题是，如果你想要一个快速的答案，我给不了，因为我们都是狂热的披头士乐迷。
The thing is if you want a quick answer, I can't give you a quick answer because we're both big Beatles fans.
是的。
Yeah.
不知道你的听众知不知道，对吧？
Don't know if your listeners know that, aren't we?
是的
Yeah.
但肖恩·列侬显然更酷一些。
But Sean Lennon was obviously just sort of cooler.
对。
Yes.
而且他更具文化气息，也更具有政治性。
And he was more kind of cultural, and he was more he was he was more Political.
更有政治性。
More political.
直言不讳。
Outspoken.
是的
Yeah.
更叛逆。
More rebellious.
有智慧的。
Intellectual.
是的。
Yeah.
但他的歌有保罗·麦卡特尼的歌那么好吗？
But was he did he are his songs as good as Paul McCartney's songs?
好吧。
Okay.
就个人而言，我认为列侬的歌更具哲学意味。
As individual, I think Lennon is is is got a more kind of philosophical edge.
是的。
Yeah.
他更像是一种文化偶像。
And he's he's more of a kind of cultural icon.
而且他似乎比保罗承受了更多的痛苦。
And he's he seemed to have more pain than Paul.
是的。
Yeah.
经历了更多的痛苦和……
Had more anguish and more
没错。
And That's right.
由于他的痛苦和对人性的感悟，他的音乐更具灵魂，也更贴近真实，更坦诚地展现了人性。
He he he as a result of his pain and his sense of humanity, there was more soul or he was more accessible and sort of truthful about the human condition.
是的。
Yeah.
从这个意义上说，他更像一位艺术家。
He was More of an artist in that sense.
但确实。
But Yeah.
那保罗呢？
What about Paul?
嗯，保罗·麦卡特尼更偏向于这样，而约翰·列侬是个艺术家，我会把保罗·麦卡特尼看作一位音乐家。
Well, Paul McCartney was was more of this John Lennon was an artist, would think of Paul Cunningham more as a musician.
你知道，他是个词曲作者。
You know, he was a songwriter.
他创作了优美、优美而完美的歌曲。
He wrote beautiful, beautiful, perfect songs.
是的。
Yes.
我认为，正是他塑造了披头士音乐的风格。
And he was the one, I think, that made the Beatles music what it was.
对。
Yeah.
所以就音乐重要性而言，我会说保罗·麦卡特尼。
So in terms of their musical importance, I would say Paul McCartney.
对。
Yeah.
从文化意义上看，我会说约翰·列侬。
In terms of their cultural significance, I would say John Lennon.
好的。
Okay.
但部分原因是约翰·列侬被枪杀了。
But that's partly because John Lennon got shot.
是的。
Yeah.
如果约翰·列侬没有被枪杀，也许大家都会说，天啊，约翰·列侬，真无聊啊，是啊。
If John Lennon hadn't been shot, then maybe everyone would be like, oh god, John Lennon, what a boring oh, yeah.
想象一下， blah blah 什么的。
Imagine blah blah whatever.
随便吧。
Whatever.
还记得吗，你懂的，他和Tinchy Strider的那个合作到底是怎么回事？
Remember that, you know, what was that collaboration with Tinchy Strider all about?
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