有趣的童年回忆与故事 ⚡️👦（与马丁一起）

所以我们当时会睡在卧铺车厢里，那也特别棒。

And so we would be in a sleeper carriage and that was also great.

还有一个很早的记忆，就是躺在那种卧铺车厢里，看着沙发座椅能折叠变成三层的上下铺，特别兴奋。

A very early memory as well is of being in this sleeper carriage and the excitement of the sort of sofa bunk the sofa benches that would fold and transform into three different bunk beds on three levels.

太酷了。

So cool.

我觉得我也不太确定。

I think I don't know.

小时候，上下铺就让人特别激动，对吧？

As a kid, I I bunk beds, that was just exciting, wasn't it?

我那时候一直想要一套，尽管根本没必要。

I always wanted one even though there was no need for one.

我姐妹们每个人都有自己的房间。

And my my sisters all had their own bedroom.

但上下铺就是让人觉得特别有意思。

But bunk beds were exciting.

火车上的上下铺。

Bunk beds on a train.

天哪。

Oh my god.

不仅如此，那些火车上的沙发座平时坐着吃饭，桌子还很小，到了晚上却能变成床。

Not only that, but bunk beds on trains that are that normally are sofas where you're sitting and, like, you're having some food on a little table.

然后，到了某个时候，对，就是那样。

And then at some point, like, right.

咱们把这儿改成卧室吧，有皮带固定，一拉皮带，部分座椅就降下来，床就出来了。

Let's change this into a bedroom, and there are leather straps, and you pull the straps and the and the benches kinda go some of them come down, and then you've got beds.

而且。

And the

床离地好高。

beds are like

小时候，那床高得吓人。

when you're a little kid, the beds are so high up.

你懂的吧。

You know?

这儿有一张床。

There's like one bed here.

嗯，明白了。

Okay.

那边还有一张床。

Another bed there.

再往上，高得离谱的地方还有一张床，你爸可能就得睡那儿了。

And then there's like another bed impossibly high up there where your your dad's gonna sleep or something.

是的。

Yeah.

那些设计真不错。

So those were great.

特别有意思。

Exciting.

太让人兴奋了。

Very exciting.

我到现在还觉得不可思议，车居然能上火车。

I still can't get over I can't get over a car on a train.

简直颠覆了我的认知。

It's blown my mind.

我以前坐过一次火车，我是说，作为成年人，这说起来有点尴尬，因为我根本不知道有这回事。

I I once took a train I mean, as an adult, so this is embarrassing because I had no idea.

我从哥本哈根坐火车去德国的汉堡。

But I got a train from Copenhagen to Hamburg in Germany.

是的。

Yeah.

我从来没想过这回事，结果一上车，突然就有人通知大家要下车。

And I'd never given it a moment's thought, but I got on this train and then suddenly we were being told to get off the train.

于是所有人都下了车。

And so everybody got off the train.

我当时还是不太明白到底发生了什么。

I still didn't really know what was happening.

火车好像停在一个车站里。

And the train seemed to be in some sort of station.

所有人都在这站下了车，然后我们一起上了楼梯。

And then everyone got off at this station, and we all went up some stairs.

我一出来，发现站在了一艘船的甲板上，原来火车是开上了渡轮。

And then I came out on the deck of a ship, and the train has got onto a ferry.

这艘大船现在正载着火车，横跨这片海域，大概要开一个小时。

And this big boat is now going on a, you know, an hour long journey across this.

等等。

Wait.

什么？

What?

火车上船？

A train on a boat?

然后你就直接到了德国。

And then you you're live in Germany.

所以我就，嗯，是这样。

So I I yeah.

我的地理知识很差，根本没想到事情居然是这样的。

My geography was not great, but I had no clue that that's how you how it worked.

突然间，我就站在一艘船的甲板上，眼前是大海。

So suddenly I'm standing at sea on a deck of a boat.

但那时候我已经不是小孩子了。

But, you know, I wasn't a small child.

这也不是什么童年记忆。

This wasn't an early memory.

我当时都三十多岁了。

I was in my thirties or something.

这确实挺尴尬的。

So that's quite embarrassing.

眼见为实，还得是眼见为实。

Sight to still be sight.

这事儿迟早得发生。

That was gonna happen.

对。

Yeah.

等等，有点不对劲。

But wait a minute.

火车开上船？

A train on a boat.

他意思是，他们真没把整列火车都搬上船，对吧？

He's telling he genuinely, they didn't put the whole train on the boat, did they?

他们就是简单地……是啊。

They just kinda like Yeah.

他开车开进一艘巨大的渡轮，渡轮开到另一头，火车再开出来。

He drives into this huge ferry, and then it comes up the other end, and off it goes again.

别说了。

Shut up.

这怎么可能？

How is that possible?

火车太长了。

The train train's too long.

不是的。

No.

要么火车很短，要么渡船很大。

It was either a short train or a long boat.

这主意真绝了。

Well, that's brilliant.

哇。

Wow.

我以前从来没听说过这种事。

I've never heard of that before.

我的意思是，这真是太绝了。

I mean, how brilliant.

我的意思是，确实就是这样。

I I mean, that that yeah.

运输工具叠运输工具。

Transport on transport.

这太厉害了。

This is brilliant.

车开上船。

Car on a boat.

车开上火车。

Car on a train.

火车换轨道。

Train on a change the point of.

我们这期节目换个话题。

We're gonna change the topic of this week's episode.

这已经跟童年没关系了。

It's not about childhood anymore.

现在讲的是运输工具叠运输工具。

It's about transport on transport.

你还记得那次你把直升机放在飞机上的事吗？

Do remember that time when you put a helicopter on a plane?

天哪。

Oh, god.

我们要想完成这个，得有个人讲个把火车或者船放在车上的故事。

We what we need to fit to complete this, one of us needs a story about putting a train or a boat on a car.

那样才算真正给这个话题画上句号。

That would be the, ultimate way to round this off.

对。

Yeah.

那好吧。

So okay.

小时候的记忆。

Early memories.

我还有其他一些小时候的记忆。

I've got other early memories as well.

我记得小时候特别害怕过一次。

I've got a memory of being really terrified as a kid.

那是非常早以前的事了，印象有点模糊，但我确实记得。

Really early memory, and it's very vague, but I do remember it.

我爸妈和我叔叔到现在还总跟我提起这件事。

And my my mom and dad and my uncle will still tell me this again and again.

我真的记得，不过我也知道，小时候的记忆，我们到底是真记住了，还是只是根据别人讲的故事慢慢拼凑出来的？

And I do remember it, although I know that, you know, maybe childhood memories, do we actually remember them, or do we just kind of, like, construct the memory based on the stories that we've been told by other people?

这确实很难说清楚，对吧？

It's hard to tell, isn't it really?

但我真的觉得，这件事我多少还是有点印象的。

But I honestly genuinely do think I can remember this one a little bit.

就是那列火车。

So was this train.

明白吗？

Okay?

又是火车，交通工具。

Again, train, transport.

话题又绕回来了。

We're back to that again.

那时候我住在外公外婆家，我舅舅、舅妈、哥哥、爸爸都在，到了该睡觉的时间。

So I was staying at my grandparents, my mom's parents, and my uncle and aunt were there too, my brother and my dad and everything, and bedtime.

我刚睡下没多久就惊醒了，特别害怕，哭得厉害，又喊又叫，情绪完全失控。

And I woke up sort of fairly soon after having gone to bed very, very upset, like having a sort of like just crying and really, really bothered, crying and screaming.

大人们都搞不懂我怎么了。

And no one could understand what was the matter with me.

怎么问都问不出原因。

They couldn't work it out.

我当时简直彻底崩溃了，完全歇斯底里。

And I was absolutely sort of beside myself, like, completely hysterical.

小孩子有时候确实会这样。

Like, little kids can can do that sometimes.

他们可能会经历夜惊，尤其是在睡觉的时候，突然就陷入那种状态。

They're like night terrors or especially around sleeping, they can sort of snap into this thing called like a night terror.

我当时的样子，简直像从恐怖片里跑出来的一样。

And and I was it was like something out of a horror film or something.

我又是喊又是指，他们完全搞不懂我在说什么。

I was like screaming and pointing, and they couldn't work it out.

最后他们才发现，原来是因为那个塑料玩具火车，大到小孩子都能坐上去的那种。

And eventually, they worked out that it was this kind of plastic toy train big enough that you could sit on the little kid could sit on.

就是托马斯小火车，你知道的。

And you know Thomas the Tank Engine.

对吧？

Right?

所以，对于不知道的听众，托马斯小火车是一部很出名的动画片。

So Thomas the Tank Engine is just for any listeners who don't know, it's like a famous TV show.

讲的是一群火车，但它们都有脸。

It's about all these trains, but they've got faces.

火车前面有张脸，它们会互相说话，每个人物性格都不一样。

So the trains have got faces on the front, and they all kind of talk to each other, they've got different personalities.

那个塑料火车是托马斯的廉价仿制品，不是官方授权的托马斯玩具。

So this plastic train was a kind of cheap copy of a Thomas the it wasn't an official Thomas the Tank Engine toy.

就是别的厂家做的便宜货，也在火车前面加了个脸而已。

It was just some other cheap toy that had the same idea that they put a face on the front of this train.

那个带着诡异脸孔的塑料火车把我吓坏了，直接把我吓到崩溃。

And this train, plastic train with a creepy face on the front absolutely freaked me out and terrified me, and it it caused me to have this massive sort of meltdown.

是的。

Yeah.

但我就是觉得那辆火车透着一股邪恶、吓人的气息。

But I just remember getting very malicious, terrifying vibes from this evil train.

在我眼里，它就是纯粹的邪恶。

It just seemed to be pure evil to me.

我哭得特别厉害，记得当时天都黑了，大家都从卧室出来，想帮我平静下来。

And I had a huge crying fit and it was just I remember it was dark and everyone came out of their bedrooms to kind of try and help me calm down.

谁都没办法。

No one could do it.

只有当那个火车被彻底搬出家、放到车库里时，我才终于不哭了。

And I only stopped crying and calmed down when the train was actually removed from the house entirely and was put into the garage.

那时候我才慢慢平静下来，但只要那火车还在屋里，我就怎么也静不下来。

And then I then I calmed down, but I just couldn't calm down with that train in the house.

所以你看，就是这样。

So there you go.

这事儿是不是挺怪的？

That's a weird one, isn't it?

从那以后，你就一直讨厌托马斯小火车，是吗？

And ever since then, you've you hated Tom Thomas the Tank Engine, did you?

还是没有？

Or did you No.

我其实很喜欢托马斯小火车。

I love Thomas the Tank Engine.

我只是不喜欢那些廉价的托马斯仿制品。

It's just I just don't like cheap copies of Thomas the Tank Engine.

你是因为觉得这东西太粗俗，破坏了你的审美？

Your your aesthetic taste was offended by this the vulgarity of this cheap

这不是官方授权的周边。

It's not the official merchandise.

这不是官方产品。

It's not official merchandise.

但说实话，我那时候被吓成那样，其实也不算过分。

But I mean, I kind of to an extent, I kind of feel that it wasn't unreasonable of me to be so terrified of this thing.

你想想，一列火车，脸上还长着五官，是不是挺怪异、挺吓人的？

Because when you think about it, a train with a face on the front, that's quite strange and quite creepy, isn't it?

我觉得

And I think

是啊。

yeah.

这些怪东西，对吧？

Of weird things, aren't they?

我小侄子看过一部纪录片，讲的是一个位于阿拉斯加或者加拿大、我也不太确定是哪儿的小镇，那里是北极熊迁徙的必经之路。

My little nephew saw a documentary about a town in I think Alaska or Canada, not sure which, where she's on the migratory route of polar bears.

每年都有北极熊穿过这个小镇，翻垃圾桶找吃的，还撞窗户什么的。

So every year these polar bears come through this town and they go through people's bins looking for food and they bang on the windows and all this.

我侄子那时候还很小，看了之后被吓坏了，真的被吓坏了。

And my nephew at a very young age had seen this and absolutely, absolutely terrified him.

他是澳大利亚人。

He he was Australian.

我妹妹住在澳大利亚。

My my sister lived in Australia.

所以他想给我们找一只北极熊，可能性很小吧。

So the chances of him finding us a polar bear

确实很低。

were quite

你知道的。

you know?

他曾经来英国探望我们一次，我就带他出去散步。

He came to visit in England once and we went for a walk, just me and him.

那时候他还很小。

And he was only tiny.

我牵着他的手。

He was so I was holding his hand.

那天还下雪了。

And it snowed.

他从来没看过雪，所以这一切都让他特别兴奋。

He'd never seen snow before, so this is all very exciting.

所以我们出去看雪。

So we went out to look at the snow.

当我们走过那片田野时，我感觉到他的手突然攥紧了我的手，好像想到了什么。

And as we were walking across this field, I felt his hand suddenly tighten in my hand as he he had a thought.

他问我：马丁叔叔，英国有北极熊吗？

And he said, uncle Martin, are there are there polar bears in England?

我当时就说：没有。

So I was like, no.

没有。

No.

没关系。

It's fine.

哦，这样啊。

Oh, okay.

然后他就放松下来了。

And he relaxed again.

哦，是的。

Oh, yes.

他一直到年纪挺大了，才不再害怕北极熊。

He was he was quite old before he stopped being scared of polar bears.

嗯，我倒是能理解。

Well, again, I sort of understand.

他叫什么名字？

What was his name?

他叫什么名字？

What's his name?

我侄子。

My nephew.

对。

Yeah.

约翰。

John.

所以我理解约翰，毕竟他是怕北极熊。

So I understand John because polar bears yeah.

你确实该怕北极熊，毕竟它们是极其可怕又危险的掠食者。

You should be scared of polar bears because they're, you know, extremely terrifying, dangerous predators.

但显然，你不能对约翰这么说，对吧？

So, you know, But obviously, you can't say that to John, can you?

你不能在约翰哭着说怕熊的时候，还跟他说要怕熊吧。

You can't say to John when he's crying in bears, yeah, yeah, yeah.

你真该怕北极熊。

You should be scared of polar bears.

它们真的非常危险。

They're really dangerous.

要是有只北极熊在窗外，你肯定得尖叫着逃跑。

And if there is one at the window, you know, you should definitely run screaming.

对。

Yeah.

你不能对小孩子这么说。

You can't say that to a child.

你得说：别担心。

You have to say, oh, don't worry.

根本没什么北极熊。

There are no polar bears.

不过幸运的是，在澳大利亚确实没有。

But thankfully, in Australia, yes.

澳大利亚没有北极熊。

No polar bears.

虽然其他危险的动物不少，但就是没有北极熊，那儿完全不用怕。

Plenty of other dangerous animals, but no polar bears, so nothing to worry about there.

那我换一个话题。

So I'm moving on.

你提到你家的棕色地毯在伊林，那属于伦敦西区。

You mentioned that you grew your brown carpet was in Ealing, so that's a part of West London.

你真的很酷啊。

So you you're very cool.

你出生在西伦敦。

You were born in West London.

你整个童年住过多少个地方？

And how many is that where you lived your whole childhood?

你一共住过几个地方？

Where how many places did you live?

你是在哪儿长大的？

Where did you grow up?

我其实出生在海威科姆，那可更酷了。

So I was born actually in High Wycombe, so even cooler.

其实也没那么酷。

Not not really.

海威科姆就是伦敦外头一个挺普通的小镇。

High Wycombe is just a sort of, I don't know, just a fairly average town just outside London.

但我出生在那里，我们其实没在那里住。

But I was born there, but we didn't really live there.

不过我出生后不久，我们就搬到了西伦敦。

But then, yeah, fairly quickly, fairly soon after I was born, we did move into West London.

所以简单说，没错，就是在西伦敦。

So basically, yes, West London.

后来我九岁的时候，我们搬到了西米德兰兹，一个偏僻小村，就在伯明翰和考文垂之间，紧挨着索利胡尔的边界，属于沃里克郡那一头。村里只有一家酒吧、一个游乐场，还有一家兼做邮局的小商店。

And then when I was about nine, we moved to the West Midlands, tiny little village in the middle of nowhere, somewhere vaguely between Birmingham and Coventry, right on the edge of Sollyhull where Solly the the border of Sollyhull and Warwickshire in this tiny little sort of tiny little village that just have one pub, one playground, one little shop with a post office in it.

就这些了。

That that was it.

周围全是小路和田野之类的地方。

And lots of lanes and fields and stuff like that.

从伦敦的四区或五区一下子搬到这种荒郊野外，每天坐公交上学，路上都是农场和各种田园景象。

So going from, you know, like, I guess Zone 4 or Zone 5 of London to just what felt like the middle of nowhere, like taking the bus to school, past farms and things like that.

对。

Yeah.

所以说到童年，主要就是这两个地方。

So in terms of childhood, it was mainly those two places.

一个还算城市的地方，然后一个特别乡村的地方。

So somewhere kind of fairly urban and then somewhere really quite rural.

明白了。

Alright.

你那时候喜欢那样吗？

And do you remember did you like it at the time?

你对这个变动满意吗？还是想留在城里？

Did you did you were you happy with that change or did you want to stay in in the city?

我对环境其实不太在意。

So I wasn't really bothered by the environment.

那样挺好的。

That was fine.

事实上，我们还挺高兴的，因为家里有个大花园。

In fact, I was really happy we were happy with that because there was a big garden, you know, in in the house.

那房子有个挺大的花园，花园往下延伸，尽头全是野地，长着几棵树，像个小小的树林，可以钻进去探险，特别棒。

The house had a nice big garden with a the garden went down and at the bottom of the garden, it kind of was all wild and there was like a there were trees, a tiny little wood, you know, where you could go in and explore, and that was brilliant.

但最难熬的是要转去一所新学校。

But the tricky thing was starting a new school.

你知道的。

You know?

那真的太糟糕了。

That was horrible.

我本来就特别怕开学。

I mean, starting school already was difficult for me.

我刚去伦敦上小学的时候，他们得拽着我，我边哭边喊，死活不肯进校门。

When I started when I went to primary school in London, they had to drag me screaming into the building.

literally，我使出浑身解数就是不想进去，最后还是被硬拖进去的，哭得不行。

Literally, like, I was doing everything I could do to actually not physically go in and they had to pull me in and I was crying.

真是够丢人的。

How pathetic.

我觉得这挺常见的，对吧？

I think it's pretty common, isn't it?

我八岁的时候，刚开始当老师。

Eight years old, was at the first was a teacher.

你开始了第一份教学工作。

You started your first teaching job.

但我其实是九岁，去乡下上小学，身边都是本地孩子，他们老拿我的口音开玩笑，因为大家都说着一口地道的乡下话。

But I was nine, so I started a new primary school in the countryside with loads of local kids and they sort of took the piss out of my accent and stuff because they all had these Were

你是不是那种典型的伦敦东区小孩，满口‘哎呀我的天’、‘老兄’之类的？

you like a Cockney London kid where you like goblimey geezer?

这到底是怎么回事？

What's going on here?

是啊，没错。

Was, right.

午饭几点开？

What time's lunch?

什么？

What?

没午饭。

There ain't no lunch.

自带午餐。

It's packed lunch.

这到底怎么回事？

What the bloody hell is all this about?

而且他们

And And they

他们就说：这口音是啥？

were like, oh, know, what's that accent?

你哪儿来的？

You're from where are you from?

你来自伦敦？

You're from London?

你知道吧，他们全都是伯明翰口音。

You know, they're all sort of brummies.

所以那时候我还没有伦敦口音。

So I didn't have a London accent at the time.

我讲话跟现在差不多，只是音调没那么低，一般更高一些。

I spoke more or less like the way I do now, except not as deep, generally higher pitch.

是的。

Yeah.

你可以想象一下，卢克的英语播客，但音调更高，内容也短得多，因为那时候我的词汇量没现在这么丰富。

It's just imagine Luke's English podcasts but at a higher pitch and much shorter because I didn't have the same vocabulary that I do now.

不过他们确实老拿我的口音开玩笑，那感觉太糟了。

But no, they used to take the Mickey out of my accent and that was horrible.

我那时候特别紧张焦虑，说不上是想家，但刚进新学校那几周，真的很难熬。

I felt very kind of, I don't know, homesick's not the word, but I just felt very nervous and anxious going those those first few weeks of starting a new school, it was horrible.

不过你应该深有体会，毕竟你上过寄宿学校，那完全是另一回事。

But you will know all about that because you you went to a you went to a boarding school, which is a totally different thing.

那肯定很难适应吧。

And that that that must have been quite difficult to get used to.

是的。

Yeah.

总之，是啊。

Anyway Yeah.

对。

Yeah.

但你觉得这正常吗？

But I think it's off isn't it?

刚上新学校的时候，总会有一种恐惧感。

There's a feeling of fear for when you start a new school.

所有孩子在第一天走进新操场时，都会觉得胃里像打结一样，对吧？

Surely all children have that terrible feeling in your stomach of of that first day in a new playground.

以后的人生里，再没什么比这更吓人了，你说是不是？

Nothing will ever be so terrifying again in your life, Is it?

我的意思是，人长大了，换新工作哪能跟这比呢？

I mean, once you become an adult, starting a new job is not the same, is it?

这就像是……

It's it's it's like a

有点紧张，但毕竟你小时候经历过换学校，我说了，第一次在操场上休息、第一次在操场上吃午饭，那才真叫吓人。

little bit nervous, but I mean, once you've done that childhood thing of starting a new school, And as I say, I feel like the first break in the playground or the first lunchtime in the playground is a terrifying thing.

你该去哪儿？

Where do you go?

你去哪儿？哪儿都躲不了。

Where where do you which where there's nowhere to hide.

你该去哪儿？

Where do you go?

你怎么去跟别的孩子搭话？

How do you approach other children?

天哪。

Oh god.

是的。

Yes.

真的很吓人。

It's terrifying.

你就那么愣在那儿。

You just sort of stand there.

你花了多久才克服这种感觉？

Did it take you long to get over that?

后来慢慢适应了吗？

Did settle down?

你最后喜欢上那所学校了吗？

Did you enjoy that school eventually?

是啊，后来就好了。

Yeah, eventually.

我不太记得具体花了多久。

I don't know how long.

说起来，巧合的是，当时有个孩子也正好和我同一时间入学。

I mean, helped that there was another kid who started at exactly the same time as me just by coincidence.

他也是从伦敦来的，住的村子跟我家那个一模一样。

And he also had come from London and he lived in the same tiny little village that I lived in.

所以至少我还有个和我处境相似的人。

So I did have someone else who was in a similar situation to me.

这多少帮了点忙，但说实话，我大概花了几个月， maybe 一年左右，才慢慢觉得那里像家。

So that helped a bit, but no, it took me probably a few months or maybe a year or something to kind of feel like I was at home there.

后来上中学时情况就不一样了，因为我是和全班同学一起开始中学的。

And then went to secondary school and that was different because I started secondary school at the same time as everyone else in my year.

我哥哥就没这么幸运，他是在中学二年级中途转进去的。

My brother, it was harder for him because he started that secondary school in the second year.

他中途插班，很难融入，被同学欺负，还打过架，诸如此类的事都发生过。

He kinda joined in the middle of the second year and had a really hard time trying to kind of establish himself and he got picked on by kids and got into a fight and stuff like that.

所以我相对轻松些，因为小学和中学都是和大家一起开始的。

So it was a little easier for me because I started at primary school, and started secondary school with everyone else.

所以那也没那么糟。

So that that wasn't so bad.

是的。

Yeah.

所以你刚才问的是，你一共上了几所学校？

So you went to my question is here is how many schools did you go to?

你在伦敦上过一所，然后在当地上了所小学，之后又去了更大的中学。

So you went one in London, then your little primary school locally, and then you went to a bigger secondary school.

对。

Yes.

那你喜欢上学吗？

And Did you would you say you enjoyed school?

我觉得还行吧。

I mean, it was alright.

还过得去。

It was okay.

我我

I I

我在学校的时候，基本就是埋头做事，不惹事。

think I kind of kept my head down at school.

你懂的。

You know?

是的。

Yeah.

你可不是那种出风头、最出名的学生。

You weren't you weren't king of the king of the I don't know what the expression would be.

最顶尖的学生。

Top kid.

领头羊。

Top dog.

领头羊。

Top dog.

没有。

No.

也不是真的。

Not really.

我意思是，

I would I mean

帮派老大。

Leader of the gang.

我觉得美国高中更容易让人理解，因为大家都看过影视里怎么描绘美国的学校。

It's I feel like American high school is easier for the world to understand because they've seen it ever we've all seen the way that school in America is depicted.

每次都是那套东西。

It's just the same things every time.

你知道的，金属储物柜，总是一样的那几类学生。

You know, the metal lockers, and there's always the same types of kids.

在美国高中，基本上就是那几种人：受欢迎的运动型孩子，刻薄的霸凌者，还有那种书呆子。

You know, in American high school, it's like there's basically like this the the popular sporty kids, and then there's the mean bully, and then there's the kind of geeks.

基本上就这三类人。

And it's basically those three categories.

女生那边也差不多。

And for girls, it's a similar story.

你懂的。

You know?

有爱运动的啦啦队女生，有心肠坏的女生——她们可能也是啦啦队员，然后就是那种比较普通的书呆子女生。

You've got the sporty kind of pom pom girls, the cheerleaders, and the evil girls who might actually be the cheerleaders too, and then the kind of more ordinary geeky kind of girls.

但英国的学校就很难这样分类，对吧？

But British school, it's harder to categorize, isn't it, really?

是啊。

But Yeah.

不是。

No.

我不是那种受欢迎的孩子。

I wasn't one of the cool kids.

我也没觉得自己是那种特别聪明的孩子。

I wasn't really one of the really super clever kids.

我也不是那种书呆子型的孩子。

I wasn't one of the geeky kids.

我算是介于这些类型之间的那种人。

I was somewhere sort of in between all of those things.

是的。

Yeah.

一个恰到好处的平衡。

A happy medium.

对。

Yes.

我觉得是这样。

I think so.

学校某种程度上就是这样，不算太糟，但有时候真像在求生，因为总有霸凌的人，孩子们彼此之间可能特别刻薄。

But it was like school to an extent is, it wasn't that rough, but sometimes it is a question of survival because there are bullies around, and kids can be pretty mean to each other and nasty to each other.

对吧？

Right?

所以，说实话，我在学校的时候一直低调行事，没什么存在感。

So, yeah, I I I feel like I've kind of kept my head down and didn't really have a lot of personality at school.

我不确定这么说公不公平，但我确实挺内向的，不过还挺爱开玩笑的。

I don't know if that's fair, but I was I was fairly shy, but I was quite funny.

那在学业上，你是那种尖子生，还是只是勉强应付？

Yeah, so Academically, were you a star or you just sort

学业上？不算，我就那样吧。

of muddle along or Academically, no.

我也就是比平均水平高一点点。

Again, I was just above average, just slightly above average.

你要想想学校里有些孩子，其实他们的成绩拉低了整体平均分。

And when you consider some of the kids in the school, that doesn't necessarily mean that they dragged the average down quite a lot.

所以我还算不错。

So I was okay.

我中学的成绩还行。

My results from secondary school were alright.

没一门课拿到A。

I didn't get an a in any subject.

拿了五个B、三个C和一个D，就这样，也挺好的。

I got five b's, three c's, and a d, okay, which is fine.

说不上让爸妈特别骄傲，也没什么好吹的，但也没考得特别差。

I mean, nothing to really make my parents proud, nothing to shout about, but no terrible failures at the same time.

反正还行，够用了。

So it was fine, it was good enough.

不过我相对擅长的科目其实是英语，还有戏剧，我也挺拿手的。

But the subjects I was probably better at were English and drama actually was one of the ones I was good at.

我后来没继续学戏剧，但戏剧、英语、音乐、社会学我都挺擅长的。

I never actually pursued that, I didn't do drama studies later, but I was good at drama, English, music, sociology.

社会学？那会儿已经算比较晚的课了吧？

Sociology a bit older, was it?

你是说你把它当作一种……

You do that as like

不是，中学时这门课是选修的。

No, they had that as an option at secondary school.

是的。

Yeah.

我学了两年。

I did it did it for two years.

不太酷啊。

Not cool.

你提到过戏剧，但学校的话剧也是挺重要的。

So the school play, you mentioned drama, but the school play is a thing.

对。

Yes.

我从来没参加过学校的话剧。

How what what I I was never in a school play.

现在回想起来，我可能有点后悔，真希望当年参加过这样的活动。

I think looking back, that might be a regret that I wish I had done something like that.

但不知为什么，自从参加过圣诞剧之后——也许你得跟观众解释一下，圣诞剧是孩子很小的时候在幼儿学校演的，大概三、四岁左右吧。

But for some reason, after the nativity play, maybe you should explain to viewers that the nativity play is when you're very young at an infant school, when you're sort of what, three, four years old, something like that.

每到圣诞节，学校就会演一出关于耶稣降生的故事。

At Christmas, they put on a play about the story of Jesus being born.

其他国家也会这样吗？

Do they do that in other countries?

我不太清楚。

I don't know.

这倒挺值得了解一下的。

That would be interesting to know.

也许你的读者或听众可以在评论里分享一下他们的经历。

Maybe your readers, your listeners could put their comments.

在英国，我们都有圣诞剧，而且所有家长都得去观看。

But in The UK, we have a nativity play, which all the parents have to go and watch.

那场面真是烂得经典。

It's classically terrible.

演技真算不上多出色。

Not not the greatest acting going on.

为了确保每个孩子都有角色。

Some to make sure that all children have a role.

当然，玛丽和约瑟夫是主角，还有几个牧羊人。

Obviously, there's there's Mary and Joseph, importantly, some shepherds.

还有一个天使。

There's an angel.

为了让其他孩子也都参与进来，你可能就是站在后面的一棵圣诞树。

But to make sure all the other children have a have a role, you might be a Christmas tree standing at the back.

我觉得我当年演的就是一棵圣诞树。

I I think that's what I was, a Christmas tree.

天哪。

Oh, no.

我觉得我演的是个牧羊人。

I think I was a shepherd.

我想我后来还演过，但那之后，学校里演戏就成了一件挺重要的事了，毕竟小时候三四岁的时候人人都要演圣诞剧。

Think I quite But after after the nativity play, which everybody does, because everybody is in the nativity play when you're three or four years old.

从那以后，在学校演戏就变得挺有分量了。

After that, doing a play at school is is a sort of quite a big thing.

你第一次演戏是什么？演的是什么角色？

What what was your first play and what was your first role?

天哪。

Oh gosh.

上中学的时候，我参加了戏剧社，我们戏剧课确实排过一出戏。

So secondary school, yeah, I was in drama and we actually with the drama class, we did do a play.

演的是《圣诞颂歌》。

It was A Christmas Carol.

对。

Yeah.

我们演了《圣诞颂歌》。

We did A Christmas Carol.

查尔斯·狄更斯的作品。

Charles Dickens.

查尔斯·狄更斯写的，我演的是小蒂姆。

Charles Dickens, and I was Tiny Tim.

哦，那可是。

Oh, that's

挺重要的角色。

quite a big role.

这角色确实挺关键的。

It's quite an important role.

因为我要在台上死掉，所以特别重要。

It's quite a it's a it's a because I had to die.

我觉得我是在台上死的。

I think I died on stage.

天哪。

Oh my god.

这一定很伤感。

It's got to be sad.

这确实是个悲伤的故事。

It is a sad story.

不。

No.

这毫无疑问。

There's no question.

不过说真的，当小蒂姆去世时，那其实只是一场梦。

Although although, to be fair, when Tiny Tim dies, that is just a sort of, a dream.

在现实里，他并没有死，因为埃比尼泽·斯克鲁奇改过自新，照顾起了小蒂姆和他全家。

In the real world, he doesn't die because Ebenezer Scrooge changes his his ways and looks after Tiny Tim and his family.

但确实有一段情节，在斯克鲁奇被那些幽灵展示的某个幻象中，他看到小蒂姆……你知道的，他亲眼目睹小蒂姆去世了。

But so there is a sequence though in which in one of Scrooge's dreams that or visions that he's been given by one of these ghosts, he sees Tiny Tim you know, he observes that Tiny Tim has died.

所以我当时得演死掉，结果咳得厉害，直接倒在了地上。

So I had to die and I kind of had a coughing fit and fell on the floor.

我记得自己当时拿了一根木头拐杖。

I remember having a wooden crutch.

戏剧老师那儿堆满了道具，我就拿着那根木头拐杖，还说了几句台词。

The drama teacher had a room full of props and I had this wooden crutch and and then I, you know, had a few lines.

上帝保佑我们每一个人。

God god bless us, everyone.

然后一直咳个不停，慢慢从椅子上滑下来，摔到了地上。

And then kept coughing and coughing and slowly fell off my chair and fell on the floor.

天哪。

Oh, no.

他死了。

He's dead.

你那时候多大年纪？

How old were you when you were doing this?

我当时大概十二三岁吧，记不太清了。

I must have been about, I don't know, 12, 13, something like that.

真精彩。

Great stuff.

是的。

Yeah.

后来你演过其他角色吗？年纪更大的那种？

And did you go on to other performances where you later you became older characters?

对。

Yeah.

我们在戏剧课上还演过别的剧。

We did other plays in drama class.

我得演一个老头。

I I had to play an old man.

有一出戏里，我和几个孩子一起演一个老头。

I had to play an old man in in one of the plays that the with a group of other kids.

我们自己写了剧本。

We wrote the script.

我们写了这部剧。

We wrote the play.

我们排练了。

We practiced it.

我们做了准备，然后在全班面前表演。

We prepared it, and when we performed it to the rest of the class.

我演的是个老人，但我记得戏剧老师跟我说，卢克，你演得不错。

And I was an old man, but I remember that one of the things that the drama teacher was trying to tell me, he's like, Luke, you're great.

你演得很好，但试着表现得更像个老人。

You're doing great, but try to act like an try to act like an old man.

你要记住，老年人行动没那么利索。

I mean, remember, old people, they can't move very well.

他们站起来、走路可能都有点吃力。

They might kind of have difficulty standing up and walking.

他们可能会弯着腰。

They might be hunched over.

他说，你得记住这些细节。

And he said, you know, remember those things.

试着把这些表现出来。

Try to do those things.

我觉得我演老人的时候，就是用一个14岁少年的身子到处走来走去。

And I think that my performance as an old man was just me walking around with my normal sort of 14 year old's body, walking around.

没改声音。

Didn't change my voice.

没改肢体动作，也没改站姿或姿态。

Didn't change my body language or my posture.

我就这么走来走去，把台词念完，指望大家自己记得我是演个老人。

I just walked around and just delivered the lines and just, you know, expected everyone to remember that I was an old man.

那根本算不上什么像样的表演。

It wasn't a good it wasn't a good acting job at all.

对。

Mhmm.

所以你从来没想过，或者说没考虑过当演员？

So you never wanted to you didn't, never fancied becoming an actor?

或者

Or

没有。

a No.

其实我一直特别想当演员或者喜剧演员。

Definitely wanted I would've loved to be have been an actor or a comedian.

这一直是我心底里特别想做的一件事，但我当时就是缺乏自信，也缺少那种足够的自我认知和成熟度，没法把它做好。

That was always something I secretly would've loved to do, but I just didn't have the confidence or the kind of self awareness, the maturity to be able to do it properly.

我觉得主要原因还是我比较内向。

I think it was more I was shy.

我确实挺害羞的。

I was quite shy really.

我觉得，虽然我很享受表演和逗人笑，但骨子里的害羞和拘谨让我从不敢主动去争取这些机会。

I think, yeah, although I enjoyed performing and making people laugh, there was a certain shyness and a certain sort of reserve that meant that I didn't put myself forward for those things.

其他孩子要自信多了，也更愿意站出来表现自己。

Some of the other kids were a lot more confident and willing to kind of put themselves out there.

老师总会点名说：‘卢克，你来演这个吧。’

And I was the kind of kid the teacher would say, Luke, why don't you do this?

我记得小学时，老师明明想让我演主角。

I remember that in primary school, whereas I was the teacher wanted me to play the main character.

老师总说：‘卢克，你应该试试这个。’

I think, Luke, you should do this.

但我就是摇头拒绝。

I And was like, no.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

我真的不想，就是不想去做。

I really don't you know, I don't want to.

不想去。

Don't want to.

最后我只好演了圣诞剧里的一头牛之类的角色。

And I ended up being a cow or something in the in the nativity.

卢克，你可以演约瑟夫。

Luke, you could be Joseph.

我觉得你应该演约瑟夫，卢克。

I think you should be Joseph, Luke.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

不行。

No.

然后我就她了。

And then I I will she.

你知道的。

You know?

所以真正让你退缩的，其实是你的不自信。

So it was your lack of confidence really that held you back.

如果你更有信心一点，本可以演主角的。

If you'd have been more confident, you could have been the main the main character.

也许吧。

Perhaps.

是的。

Yeah.

我不确定这是自信不足，还是太谦虚，或者别的什么原因。

I don't know if it's confidence or modesty or or or what.

对。

Yeah.

可能我只是没什么野心吧。

But I just wasn't really ambitious, maybe.

我没那种强烈的渴望。

I wasn't I didn't have that That burning

这正好引出下一个问题：你小时候想做什么？

leads us nicely to the next question, which is what what did you want to do when you were a kid?

你小时候想象过自己长大后会成为什么样的人吗？

What did you imagine you would like to be one day?

我从来就不知道自己到底想做什么，到现在也一样。

I've never really known what I wanted to do, including even now.

甚至每时每刻都拿不定主意。

Even just moment by moment.

还是说，

Still like,

那现在你打算干嘛呢？

oh, what are gonna do now?

我不知道。

I don't know.

我小时候根本一点想法都没有。

But I had no idea at all really as a little kid.

我甚至不记得自己曾经想当消防员之类的职业，而那正是大多数孩子都会说的。

Even I don't remember a time when I wanted to be fireman or something like that, which is what most little kids will say.

比如我儿子，快三岁了，他就想当消防员，因为他特别爱看《消防员山姆》，对火和救援特别着迷。

Like even my son who is nearly three, he wants to be a fireman because he loves watching Fireman Sam on TV and just he's obsessed with fire and emergencies.

但我从来就没有这种感觉。

But no, I never had that sense.

到了中学快毕业的时候，得去和职业顾问面谈一次。

And then at secondary school, just before you leave, you have to have a meeting with a careers adviser.

每个人都要单独面谈一次，坐下来，他们就会问：你以后想做什么？

You have a one to one meeting, everyone does, and you sit down and they say, so what would you like to do?

你有没有想过毕业后要干点什么？

Have you got any idea what you'd like to do after school?

我就说，我想继续读A-Level，上大学之类的。

And I'd say, well, think I'm gonna continue to do a levels of college and stuff like that.

他们想帮你们决定选哪些科目，或者有哪些选择。

They're trying to help you decide what subjects you will do or what your options are.

我当时能想到的唯一一个职业，就是想当一个体育中心的主管。

And the only thing I could think of as a career was that I wanted to be the manager of a sports center.

他们在我档案里写的是：我喜欢休闲中心管理员。

That was the thing that got written down in my folder that I like leisure center manager.

之所以这么想，是因为我特别喜欢

The reason for that is just that I liked the

我只是在笑。

I'm only laughing.

不好意思。

Sorry.

我现在只是在笑。

I'm only laughing now.

看起来好像我不礼貌，但我笑是因为我们之前聊过这个。

It seem I look rude, but I'm only laughing because we've talked about this before.

我知道你接下来要说什么。

And I know what you're gonna say.

你继续说。

Go on.

我不希望你的观众以为你一说完，我就当面笑你。

I don't want your viewers to think that as soon as you said that, I just laughed in your face.

不会。

No.

当然了。

Of course.

没有。

No.

我们以前聊过这个。

We have talked about that before.

这个话题我们之前也笑过。

We've laughed about this before.

你当初邀请我上你的播客时，我们就聊到这个了。

When you when you invited me onto your podcast, we ended up talking about this.

而且，没错，我当初是想当休闲中心的经理。

And, yeah, I wanted to be a leisure leisure center manager.

对吧？

Right?

就是那种运动中心，你知道的，听众们。

So that is, you know, like a sports center listeners.

你知道那是什么意思吧，就是可以去那里做各种运动的体育中心。

You know what that means, a sports center where you can go and do different types of sports.

我觉得主要原因是在中学阶段，大概十一到十六岁之间，我一直埋头于自己的世界，对外面的事没什么兴趣。

And I think the main reason for that is that at secondary school, again, between the ages of sort of 11 and 16, I kept my head down and I wasn't particularly interested in the world.

我其他朋友那时候开始迷上音乐，热衷各种新鲜事，还想出去玩、甚至开始喝酒之类的。

Some of my other friends were getting into music and getting into all these different things and kind of wanting to go out and even start drinking and all that stuff.

而我的兴趣范围特别窄，就只对运动感兴趣。

And I was just kind of fairly limited really in my interest of things, and I was just into sports.

我就是想一直踢足球。

I just wanted to play football all the time.

我特别喜欢各种体育项目，尤其是运动器材。

I just loved all kinds of sport, especially sporting equipment.

不知为什么，我特别喜欢那些在体育课上叫‘器械’的东西。

For some reason, I just loved apparatus, which is what they call it in school.

上体育课的时候，他们管那些叫器械，就是这么个叫法。

So when you go to PE class, that's apparatus, that's what they call it in Yeah.

对。

Yeah.